Speaker 1: Ye, welcome back, honorary Shaker Heights residents. I am thrilled
Speaker 1: the ear back with us on the podcast. My name
Speaker 1: is Jamie Loftus back for another episode of Little Fires Everywhere,
Speaker 1: the official podcast, the only show that takes you behind
Speaker 1: the scenes and into the minds of the creatives on
Speaker 1: the show. Today, I want to talk about bringing the
Speaker 1: Shaker world to life visually and sonically, because building the
Speaker 1: world of Little Fires Everywhere was no small feat. It's
Speaker 1: a location specific period piece and yes, I know the
Speaker 1: nineties two count as a period piece, now get over it.
Speaker 1: It's also a deeply emotional world that requires a pitch
Speaker 1: perfect score and soundtrack, and it's a world full of complicated,
Speaker 1: brilliant art. So in this episode, we're going to take
Speaker 1: you through the minds that shaped the Shaker Heights of
Speaker 1: the Hulu series, both in sight and sound. We're gonna
Speaker 1: speak with artist Connie Martin Travino created all of me
Speaker 1: as art for the show. We're gonna talk to production
Speaker 1: designer Jess Kender, and I'm very excited to have sat
Speaker 1: down with the show's composers, veteran composer Mark Isham and
Speaker 1: first time TV composer is a Summers who is literally
Speaker 1: the machine of Florence and the Machine, so really really
Speaker 1: cool collaboration there. And we're also going to speak to
Speaker 1: legendary music supervisor Mary Ramos, who put marking Isa together
Speaker 1: collaboratively and shaped the sound of the show. So lots
Speaker 1: to look forward to today. But first I wanted to
Speaker 1: understand where the approach to the art of the series
Speaker 1: came from on the production side, and so I got
Speaker 1: a chance to speak with Little Fires Everywhere showrunner, head writer,
Speaker 1: and executive producer Liz tig Alar, along with Lynn Shelton,
Speaker 1: was also an executive producer on the show and directed
Speaker 1: four episodes in the series, including episode one oh five.
Speaker 1: So let's take a listen to our conversation Highland Hi. So,
Speaker 1: as the series goes on, there's an increased focus on
Speaker 1: MIA's art and weaving it into the plot. So I'm curious,
Speaker 1: what were the discussions like around when the art comes
Speaker 1: into the story in a meaningful way and what was
Speaker 1: your approach in finding an artist to make it. Well,
Speaker 1: I just have to say that it was something that
Speaker 1: really was nerve wracking for me because just the representation
Speaker 1: of her as an artist end up what her art
Speaker 1: work would be. I've seen so much bad art in movies,
Speaker 1: you know, and it's and TV shows, and it's just
Speaker 1: it's embarrassing, you know, and being somebody who's true, a
Speaker 1: true art lover, I wanted it to feel really good
Speaker 1: and really you know, interesting and disturbing. And Liz oh
Speaker 1: she I mean we talked about the art in the
Speaker 1: room for so long and really Amy Talkington, who is
Speaker 1: an artist and and kind of you know, it was
Speaker 1: in New York kind of in the in the music world,
Speaker 1: in art world. She really curated everything for us and
Speaker 1: kind of came up with ideas and came up with,
Speaker 1: you know, all these different artists that could kind of
Speaker 1: drawn in terms of collage and sculpture and everything that
Speaker 1: Mia did, and so she kind of had all the
Speaker 1: ideas of what the art would be. And then of
Speaker 1: course anything that was in the book we also drew
Speaker 1: on where we drew from the book. But then we
Speaker 1: interviewed artists and we landed on this wonderful artist, Connie
Speaker 1: Martin Trevino, who you know, we knew we wanted a
Speaker 1: black artist, Um, we knew we wanted a woman. Connie
Speaker 1: was just you know, she'd never worked with a show
Speaker 1: before in this capacity. She is visionary. It's it's a
Speaker 1: real challenge and she just really grows to it. I do.
Speaker 1: I want to say that Carrie took photography classes and
Speaker 1: she really dove in to prepare, to prepare. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: that's really and she had on the days that she
Speaker 1: was in the dark room we were shooting her in
Speaker 1: the dark room, she had her photography teacher actually come
Speaker 1: to say so that she you know, to make sure
Speaker 1: she was doing it correctly, and you know, she was
Speaker 1: again the total investment um. But I just wanted to
Speaker 1: give a shout out to that as well. Well, thank
Speaker 1: you so much, Lynn, thank you, thank you. First thanks
Speaker 1: again to Lynn Shelton and Liz Tiglar, and we'll be
Speaker 1: hearing more from them in future episodes of Little Fires Everywhere,
Speaker 1: the official podcast. So when Liz told me about Connie
Speaker 1: Martin Trevino, an incredible artist who later became the heart
Speaker 1: and talent behind me O Warren's art, I knew that
Speaker 1: I would stop at nothing to talk to her, and
Speaker 1: I was lucky enough to get a chance to sit
Speaker 1: down with her and the Little Fires Everywhere production designer
Speaker 1: Jess Kinder, who masterminded and was the creative heart behind
Speaker 1: the sets of the show all the way from finding
Speaker 1: Elena's house to the granular, brilliant details and building out
Speaker 1: a teenager's bedroom in the nine nineties. So let's listen
Speaker 1: to some of that conversation. My name is Jess Kender,
Speaker 1: and I was the production designer on Little Fires Everywhere.
Speaker 1: And my name is Connie Martin Trevino, and I was
Speaker 1: the artist who created the work that Carry's character is
Speaker 1: creating in the show. It seems like more dense job
Speaker 1: than your average production design job, because not only are
Speaker 1: you bringing a place that exists to life, it's also
Speaker 1: a period piece. And then there's also not just an artist,
Speaker 1: but like a great artist working inside of it. So, Connie,
Speaker 1: what drew you to this project to begin with? It's
Speaker 1: so strange how it all kind of came about. Someone
Speaker 1: referred me to this project that was happening that was
Speaker 1: looking for an artist who happened to work in certain
Speaker 1: mediums like photography, collage and sculpture, and I was like,
Speaker 1: that's weird. I felt like it was for me, but
Speaker 1: I've never worked in this environment in terms of on
Speaker 1: the studio set kind of thing before and so I
Speaker 1: wasn't really sure what to expect. Yeah, we actually we
Speaker 1: had a whole bunch of artists that we looked at
Speaker 1: UM and we only interviewed very few, and Connie came
Speaker 1: in the room and there was actually this one piece
Speaker 1: of art she showed, which is a photograph that had
Speaker 1: cheesecloth on top of it, um that she had manipulated
Speaker 1: in a bunch of different ways, And that was literally
Speaker 1: something that was written in the script on how the
Speaker 1: artists sort of played around with her photography. And the
Speaker 1: second she pulled that out, all of us in the
Speaker 1: room were like, you know, and she yeah, it's like freaky, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was weird. Yeah, Connie, I want, I want. I'm
Speaker 1: so curious about what this process was like for you.
Speaker 1: And so for for listeners, you did all of me
Speaker 1: as art that appears in the show. That correct, okay, UM,
Speaker 1: So what was that process like for you creating art
Speaker 1: as a different person. There was a part of me
Speaker 1: that didn't necessarily feel that I was a different person,
Speaker 1: because I felt like the character of Mia was actually
Speaker 1: like myself. So it came to me actually kind of easily.
Speaker 1: I didn't find it challenging at all, And and there
Speaker 1: are times when people have asked me, you know, I
Speaker 1: didn't have really any stress or any anxiety or anything
Speaker 1: about it. It just kind of flowed. And it is
Speaker 1: still a very strange, sort of surreal experience, because you
Speaker 1: would have thought that it would have kind of created
Speaker 1: a a weird kind of environment or a place, since
Speaker 1: I had never actually worked in that capacity, But it
Speaker 1: it was not a challenge at all. I also think
Speaker 1: what is good about Connie's work is that she is
Speaker 1: a strong enough artist that when she came in and
Speaker 1: she said this is this is what I do, you
Speaker 1: know like, this is this is me? Like here's the
Speaker 1: me that fits what you were looking for, but here's
Speaker 1: the me that you didn't know you wanted. She a
Speaker 1: lot of her styles, like she does this great collaging
Speaker 1: that wasn't written in the script that developed after everybody
Speaker 1: saw her work and we're like, we're like, what you're doing,
Speaker 1: let's let's use this and make this into it. I
Speaker 1: was I was wondering that of of how much of
Speaker 1: the art was determined by what was on the page,
Speaker 1: And then I know that you have your own work
Speaker 1: and instincts of what would mia create, what was that process, Like, so,
Speaker 1: I guess initially there were certain things that they were
Speaker 1: kind of looking for. So they would say, you know,
Speaker 1: this is what what we're thinking. And I could say, well,
Speaker 1: this is how something like that would happen and work
Speaker 1: at that time period, like that doesn't make any sense
Speaker 1: if it was the case, yeah, or I would think about, okay,
Speaker 1: so how would something like this be done, and how
Speaker 1: would I do it as this person as the artist,
Speaker 1: but also to as Mia who is you know, from
Speaker 1: that that time period, And so that's how the work
Speaker 1: kind of got created. Okay. So I think a good
Speaker 1: example of that is the piece that you've seen everywhere,
Speaker 1: which is Lena's face burning what had originally it had
Speaker 1: originally been conceived as uh, you would see Izzy cutting wire,
Speaker 1: you would see Izzy cutting strips, and then there was
Speaker 1: like this three D mold that would happen that would
Speaker 1: form a Lena's face and in fact, the burning wasn't
Speaker 1: in there in the beginning, right right, Yeah, it wasn't
Speaker 1: in there in the beginning at all. That was something
Speaker 1: that that developed throughout the season, and when Connie came
Speaker 1: in and we were talking about it, We're like, okay,
Speaker 1: because they once she sort of she didn't really have
Speaker 1: to prove herself, but it's soon as she got in
Speaker 1: and people were like, let's hear what she has to say,
Speaker 1: and she we ended up with me and being much
Speaker 1: more organic and what she did. And Connie was like,
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know you speak to this part.
Speaker 1: But what I saw happening was this is too it's
Speaker 1: too much. It's too you wouldn't Yeah, you wouldn't do
Speaker 1: all that, and you wouldn't do all that in the
Speaker 1: time constraints or in the environment. It's it's like, you
Speaker 1: have to be realistic. Okay, So when does she have
Speaker 1: time to do this, working jobs, working two jobs, just
Speaker 1: you know, all the things that that she's doing. So yes,
Speaker 1: so what had it had to make sense to me
Speaker 1: that because it's all I kept thinking was if my
Speaker 1: artist friends, if they were looking at this, and they'd
Speaker 1: be like, that's not possible, because I often do that,
Speaker 1: you know, and I'm looking If I'm looking at something
Speaker 1: and and it's something that I am familiar with and
Speaker 1: have an understanding, and then I see it happening in
Speaker 1: a certain kind of sequence or or in a certain way,
Speaker 1: it doesn't feel believable. And I guess I really it
Speaker 1: was important to me to think about these things looking
Speaker 1: true and looking possible, you know, at that time period. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: and and that um that Elena piece is so powerful
Speaker 1: and cool and to the point where when it shows
Speaker 1: up organically in the show, I'm like, was that in
Speaker 1: the book? It seems like it should have been if
Speaker 1: it wasn't, you know, like it just feels like, yeah,
Speaker 1: like just such a grounded part of of the world.
Speaker 1: And I think what's great too, is it there's like
Speaker 1: a little bit of like the actual what you need
Speaker 1: for the show, which is like Liz said, it's important
Speaker 1: to me to have the beats of Izzy and Mia
Speaker 1: working together. So we were like, Okay, how many beats
Speaker 1: do you need? And so they gave us that many
Speaker 1: beats and Connie was like, Okay, let me see this
Speaker 1: is what I'm thinking, and she drew a quick sketch.
Speaker 1: One of the things I loved about working with her
Speaker 1: is I tell her this all the time, like my
Speaker 1: mind would never think the way that she thinks. And
Speaker 1: so she came back and she drew a sketch of
Speaker 1: what you end up seeing, and I was like, this
Speaker 1: is so good. It's so good and it was. There's
Speaker 1: something about the like simplicity and not the overwrottenness that
Speaker 1: just worked. But she still was like, Okay, they will
Speaker 1: cut these things together, they will tie these things together,
Speaker 1: they will punch these holes together. So it's still hit
Speaker 1: all the beats, but was just stunning and what it was,
Speaker 1: and then you know, like it burned, like it looks
Speaker 1: so cool. Liz loved it so much that her rap
Speaker 1: gift to everybody was she made little mini ones of
Speaker 1: those and she would write a note on the back
Speaker 1: of it and give it out to people, so they
Speaker 1: were like, this, this is the best. Then that's so cool. Uh.
Speaker 1: The other piece I wanted to ask you about specifically
Speaker 1: that I it's it's so interesting like that when I
Speaker 1: read about it in the book and then what you
Speaker 1: created it felt so the um the spider uh photograph.
Speaker 1: What was the process of putting that together? Because it's
Speaker 1: so striking. I think for people who have read the book,
Speaker 1: it very much holds up and exceeds like how you
Speaker 1: imagine it when you're reading. Okay, well, I mean you
Speaker 1: want the actual started well initially, so when they said
Speaker 1: that they you know, this was the first so the
Speaker 1: minute that they told me that I had it and
Speaker 1: then we met, it was like, okay, zero to a hundred.
Speaker 1: So it's about you know, automatically, you know, getting into
Speaker 1: a certain mindset of having to try to like, you know,
Speaker 1: make things. These things happen in a certain sort of
Speaker 1: UM time frame. And so once I know I had it,
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, well we don't have the model yet.
Speaker 1: We don't have the model yet. Let me use myself
Speaker 1: because I mean, UM, a lot of my photography also
Speaker 1: too early UM images are all self portraits. UM. And
Speaker 1: having also to experience and had gone through pregnancy and
Speaker 1: miscarriages and stuff like that, I tried to really think
Speaker 1: about the feeling that we were trying to convey about
Speaker 1: this spider woman image and how this picture came to
Speaker 1: be in MIA's head, and so to just kind of
Speaker 1: jump start that, you know, to be Miam in that place,
Speaker 1: I started practicing or practicing or just shooting myself and
Speaker 1: doing time exposures and slow exposures and moving in and
Speaker 1: out and feeling you know, a lot of emotional kinds
Speaker 1: of feelings that I wanted to convey in that UM
Speaker 1: it became about layering. I was playing with fabric and
Speaker 1: textures and all kinds of things to really also give
Speaker 1: this feeling of a web and web Like I took
Speaker 1: a picture of spider webs on my fence that had
Speaker 1: some do you know, so that gave also to a
Speaker 1: certain amount of texture which then became you know, some
Speaker 1: of the background sort of texture that you see in
Speaker 1: that hole. Yeah, and you live closely, it's there if
Speaker 1: you look, if you had a chance to look at
Speaker 1: that image, yeah, knowing in the process that you practice
Speaker 1: it on yourself too. That's so that's so cool that
Speaker 1: that image. I think it's so striking and beautiful and
Speaker 1: it's a little terrifying. Yeah, yeah, but it feels it
Speaker 1: just feels like such a perfect encapsulation of you know,
Speaker 1: where Mia is that when she creates it too, And
Speaker 1: so I'm curious. Liz had told us that Carrie was
Speaker 1: very committed to channeling Mia and was like taking photos
Speaker 1: on set and was really trying to put herself in
Speaker 1: that mindset. Did either of you speak with her or
Speaker 1: do any sort of prep with her just to make
Speaker 1: that connection. She was very involved in the MIA's art
Speaker 1: and where where it was going. She was also very
Speaker 1: respectful I think everyone. Connie proved herself, so everyone was
Speaker 1: super respectful, but she there wasn't a single piece of
Speaker 1: artwork that went out without her seeing it and giving
Speaker 1: it a thumbs up. That's awesome. And what's even I
Speaker 1: thought was really cool was at the very beginning, um
Speaker 1: Carrie texted me and asked me she could call me,
Speaker 1: and I said, yes, of course you can call me,
Speaker 1: I guess and it was really about us discussing Mia
Speaker 1: as a character and the vision, and she was so
Speaker 1: open and wanting to hear what I had to say.
Speaker 1: Um as an artist, it just made being able to
Speaker 1: create the work so much easier because they did give
Speaker 1: me the opportunity because at first, you don't know if
Speaker 1: you're going to feel as though you're being micromanaged. Um
Speaker 1: am I just creating this just exactly like how they
Speaker 1: want it, um or or am I able to actually
Speaker 1: feel like I'm being able to do what it is
Speaker 1: that I do. And I totally felt like I was
Speaker 1: able to be able to do what it is that
Speaker 1: I do. And of course there's still is some there
Speaker 1: was some going back and forth sometimes kind of like
Speaker 1: how can we like, let's have some more of that?
Speaker 1: So then it was like, well, okay, because I'm not
Speaker 1: sure how much you want, so we can always make
Speaker 1: it more. And being able to talk to carry not
Speaker 1: only on at the very beginning, but then when I
Speaker 1: would chow up on set and she was asking me
Speaker 1: about how am I holding the camera? You know, is
Speaker 1: there anything that you see that you would suggest that
Speaker 1: I do differently? Because I really wanted to come off
Speaker 1: like you know, this camera is a part of me,
Speaker 1: and absolutely so. I you know, if I said, well,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't probably hold it that way. I would do
Speaker 1: it like this. She was totally receptive, and um just
Speaker 1: really again open to just wanting to give the most
Speaker 1: authentic portrayal I feel. I mean, and that makes a
Speaker 1: lot of sense just based on Carrie's interpretation of Mia
Speaker 1: and and your artistic interpretation of MEA feels so just
Speaker 1: in sync with each other. That's that's so cool. And
Speaker 1: then and then for just I guess, just kind of
Speaker 1: addressing what seems I would guess it be an additional
Speaker 1: challenge of your not just building out this world, but
Speaker 1: you're setting it in a specific time as a production designer.
Speaker 1: What are the things you consider, especially going into a
Speaker 1: period piece. Well, I mean I think for me, because
Speaker 1: it was set in the nineties and I graduated in seven,
Speaker 1: it was very easy to be reference that time frame.
Speaker 1: I think the tricky thing is the nineties is not
Speaker 1: a um design loved era, and so you don't have
Speaker 1: at your fingertips people who have restored all these things
Speaker 1: or kept all these things. Like trying to track down
Speaker 1: stuff that looked like the nineties, it is hard because
Speaker 1: everyone is like, you know, I got rid of it
Speaker 1: exactly like we We didn't keep that that wasn't I mean,
Speaker 1: maybe it will have its heyday again, like mom jeans
Speaker 1: are back, so but just there for it. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: were there any just because you know the nineties at
Speaker 1: the time you're very connected to anyways, were there certain
Speaker 1: design elements or like references you were like, oh, definitely,
Speaker 1: I want to include this because this is a part
Speaker 1: of my nineties experience. What's funny is that actually the
Speaker 1: things that got to me more than anything else were
Speaker 1: like the props, Like I thought about you know, I
Speaker 1: was graduating college, so I was eating a ton of
Speaker 1: snack wells, you know, like I was I did the
Speaker 1: slim fast after I put on the freshman fifteen, you know,
Speaker 1: like and whenever those would come out, we had like
Speaker 1: a nine O two and oh game that was in
Speaker 1: Lexi's room, you know, like it was fun stuff like that.
Speaker 1: Really the creating the overall of the world that was
Speaker 1: more about like my dad was raised in Cleveland, you know,
Speaker 1: I lived in Jersey most of my life, and it
Speaker 1: was sort of pulling those like I remember when Ralph
Speaker 1: Lauren and Ethan Allen and all of that, and so
Speaker 1: just pulling up those references again to get the right vibe.
Speaker 1: But what I enjoyed the most was almost the little
Speaker 1: the little things that would come up where you're like,
Speaker 1: I did that, you know, God seeing that slim fast
Speaker 1: can I just like saw my mom's fridge. I was like, yep,
Speaker 1: I know that. It's fantastic. Connie, Jess, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for sitting with us, and um, congratulations on making
Speaker 1: such an amazing show. Thank you, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: Thank you again to Connie, Martin Travino and Just Kinder
Speaker 1: for that look behind the visual world of little fires everywhere.
Speaker 1: I won't be talking to Jess more in future episodes
Speaker 1: of the podcast as well, So now that you have
Speaker 1: a better understanding of the visual world behind the show.
Speaker 1: I want to take you in to the sound music
Speaker 1: supervisor Mary Ramos and composers Mark Isham and Isabella Summers, who,
Speaker 1: for the uninitiated, is the Machine portion of Florence and
Speaker 1: the Machine worked in harmony to blend an incredible dramatic
Speaker 1: score with the music of the nineties that shaped the
Speaker 1: world of all the characters in the Shaker Heights of
Speaker 1: the Shell. I got a chance to catch up with
Speaker 1: the three of them ahead of the Little Fires Everywhere premiere,
Speaker 1: So let's take a listen. Thank you all so much
Speaker 1: for joining us today. So we're listeners of the podcast
Speaker 1: who are new to the music for television process. Would
Speaker 1: you tell us what your jobs are on the show
Speaker 1: and what those jobs entail. Hi, I'm Mary Ramos. I'm
Speaker 1: the music supervisor on Little Fires Everywhere. UM. My job
Speaker 1: is to kind of handle all musical aspects of the show,
Speaker 1: which includes helping to um pick song choices, helping to
Speaker 1: create characters, tastes in music, and also to make suggestions
Speaker 1: on who who the most awesome composers should be. And
Speaker 1: in this case, we have two of the most amazing
Speaker 1: musicians as our composers building this world. Mark Isham who
Speaker 1: is responsible for so many amazing scores, crash his incredible
Speaker 1: score for Once upon a Time, the ABC show. UM,
Speaker 1: and I have borrowed from Mark's collection of music many
Speaker 1: times when I've been working on other shows, trying to
Speaker 1: create the emotional feels because he is so good at that.
Speaker 1: And then we also have is a machine Isabella Summers,
Speaker 1: who is the architect of the Florence and the Machine sound.
Speaker 1: She is the fire and the drums and the drama.
Speaker 1: Uh that you hear in Florence in the Machine amazing?
Speaker 1: All right? So, now now that we know what you do,
Speaker 1: I think that there is not really a lot of
Speaker 1: well known information about how the sonic world of a
Speaker 1: TV show is created. So with the three of you,
Speaker 1: mind talking a little bit about what is your collaborative process,
Speaker 1: like when you're given a project like Little Fires Everywhere
Speaker 1: and told how does this world sound? This was an
Speaker 1: exciting project for very many reasons, UM, two of which
Speaker 1: are Carrie Washington and Reese Witherspoon, amazing actresses, producers, UM
Speaker 1: with their vision and this book. I did read the
Speaker 1: book beforehand, so I was familiar with the story, but
Speaker 1: not familiar with the way that Liz Tiglar had orchestrated
Speaker 1: changing the characters around and really brought the story even
Speaker 1: more to life. And I knew that their intention was
Speaker 1: to bring a personality to to really imbue a personality
Speaker 1: with the music. UM for Little Fires Everywhere, And I've
Speaker 1: worked with is a Machine on another project, Assassination Nation.
Speaker 1: She had done a piece of score for that that
Speaker 1: was killer, and so I'd always thought of a time
Speaker 1: that I want to use work with her again, not user, sorry,
Speaker 1: work with her again. She's not. I didn't know, and
Speaker 1: she hadn't scored a full project before, and it was
Speaker 1: just a natural because I knew. I'd worked with Mark
Speaker 1: I shouldn't before on a movie called Freedom Writers, where
Speaker 1: he did an amazing job and really brought together Mark.
Speaker 1: Remember you worked with will I Am on that score
Speaker 1: and Mary ben Um and it was it turned out
Speaker 1: really beautiful, and honestly he was a ringmaster on that
Speaker 1: situation too. So I knew that Mark was not only
Speaker 1: an amazing composer, but also it was really a good
Speaker 1: base for UM to work with an artist like is
Speaker 1: A okay, and then Um, markin is a What what
Speaker 1: was your collaborative process like composing the music for this show,
Speaker 1: so we managed to set it up so that it
Speaker 1: could come here and we just sat in a room
Speaker 1: for days, had a really good time making music. Essentially. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think I think that it did actually do
Speaker 1: exactly what we set out to do. I don't think
Speaker 1: either one of us would have written a score like
Speaker 1: this on our own. In fact, no one for sure.
Speaker 1: There's something completely unique about this. I would have never
Speaker 1: done it like this, as it wouldn't have done it
Speaker 1: like this, and yet it's very strong and it has
Speaker 1: definitely a point of view. The beautiful thing is that
Speaker 1: I've never schooled anything before I've done music, and like
Speaker 1: it's in a piece of school for a film. That
Speaker 1: is how I met Mary. But to be presented with
Speaker 1: this opportunity and then you know, partnered with Mark, I
Speaker 1: should just I mean, I feel like I just fell
Speaker 1: into like the most beautiful situation because they were all
Speaker 1: was so nice. And that's you know, validating what I
Speaker 1: do from a rock and roll perspective and then bringing
Speaker 1: that together and making a sense of it with Pho.
Speaker 1: It's just as peaceful thing. That's so cool, that sounds
Speaker 1: like such a great collaboration. Oh, it was so fun.
Speaker 1: And there were oftentimes when we'd you know, I go
Speaker 1: over to the studio with them and they put up
Speaker 1: the picture and they you know, play a pass a
Speaker 1: queue and it'd be like, oh, bring more flier and
Speaker 1: Mark would say, oh, I happen to have a burning
Speaker 1: piano sample? Wait what sample? There are some crazy guys
Speaker 1: who will make these sample libraries. And one of them,
Speaker 1: for god knows what, he thought we should set this
Speaker 1: piano on fire and sample. It's exactly that's exactly what
Speaker 1: they did, and it's well pretty, it's a pretty whacked
Speaker 1: out sound I can imagine. Yeah. And then is of
Speaker 1: course did set a piano on fire, so, you know,
Speaker 1: would put it past it? I was like, oh, man,
Speaker 1: I did. Mary. I wanted to ask you a little
Speaker 1: bit about the use of cover songs throughout the show.
Speaker 1: You do such a beautiful job of taking music from
Speaker 1: that time and grounding it in this very modern, emotionally
Speaker 1: resonant sound. So how did you go about finding the
Speaker 1: right songs to fit the little fires everywhere universe? So
Speaker 1: in order to be able to be a little bit
Speaker 1: unique or have something that's unique to our show, it's
Speaker 1: you know, was an idea to try and use covers,
Speaker 1: but also, um, really because we had this opportunity with
Speaker 1: these two amazing composers. Um, the idea would be to
Speaker 1: make these covers uh organic with the score, that's the word.
Speaker 1: Because we had this fire and this great vibe to
Speaker 1: the score and then just to segue into a song
Speaker 1: that's really part of that score is what really makes
Speaker 1: them work really well. I think I'm very curious about
Speaker 1: how you go about finding the right voice for each cover. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was kind of a little bit of a ry
Speaker 1: with a little help from your friends type of situation.
Speaker 1: I you know, was already writing hard way to writing
Speaker 1: a song was my friend Judith Hill at the beginning
Speaker 1: of this year. Anyway, So when we're in the studio
Speaker 1: one night, I said, do you want to do a
Speaker 1: corobble with me for my first TV show? And she
Speaker 1: was like, I'd love too. So we kind of went
Speaker 1: through the like a very well curated list of potential songs, UM,
Speaker 1: and you know, Judas took to the idea of Phil
Speaker 1: Collins in the air tonight and UM, we we kind
Speaker 1: of like smashed it out in like an hour an
Speaker 1: hour and a half and it's so easy to work with.
Speaker 1: We're so easy to work with, amazing voices, so like
Speaker 1: because you know they just that there's not it doesn't
Speaker 1: take a great amount of effort to get something incredible.
Speaker 1: They're so beautifully done, and they also do feel so
Speaker 1: cohesively inside of this world in the same like it
Speaker 1: it's just yeah, it's really well done. I loved the
Speaker 1: cover so much. Were there any scenes that stood out
Speaker 1: to the three of you, is like this was particularly like, oh,
Speaker 1: I can't wait to score this scene, or like this
Speaker 1: scene was a little challenging, or I remember there were
Speaker 1: two scenes that were really fun to UM consider you
Speaker 1: guys working on. One was when Mia goes through the
Speaker 1: house the valume cue and the war path basically, and
Speaker 1: then the culmination where she creates that one piece of
Speaker 1: art uh in episode one oh four um at the end,
Speaker 1: and those were cues I was really looking forward to
Speaker 1: to to pull back a little bit. I am curious
Speaker 1: at what drew everyone individually to this project. I had
Speaker 1: read the book before and obviously dug it um. I
Speaker 1: also have worked with Carrie Washington before with her company
Speaker 1: before and also worked with her own Jango and changed
Speaker 1: Um and Pillar Savone. Her partner is a good friend,
Speaker 1: and so they brought me in. But I had also
Speaker 1: been a massive fan of Reese Witherspoon, her her taste
Speaker 1: and material, her acting, her you know, just her production company,
Speaker 1: all of it. And then walking into the room for
Speaker 1: my first meeting and seeing all these women around the table,
Speaker 1: you know, was pretty incredible. And is there anything else
Speaker 1: about the composing for television process that our listeners might
Speaker 1: not know? There's one thing I thought we should talk about,
Speaker 1: which is is so we actually had a seventeen string
Speaker 1: group and a harpist and one of the world's greatest drummers,
Speaker 1: and that's sort of rare and television and that really
Speaker 1: brings this stuff to life, and it's really a big
Speaker 1: part of why we could choose to write the music
Speaker 1: in the way we chose it. You're going to have
Speaker 1: here in Los Angeles some of the finest musicians in
Speaker 1: the world able to come in and play. You start
Speaker 1: to think in another way, and I think it's I
Speaker 1: think that's a big part of what makes this score
Speaker 1: just pop out and just stand up up as something
Speaker 1: really unique. Absolutely, you can't be live musicians, and we
Speaker 1: were so blessed to be in Capital Record Should Record
Speaker 1: fantastic East West. We were in these amazing rock and
Speaker 1: roll recording studios that had you know, they just have
Speaker 1: these ghosts in this their DNA and there, you know,
Speaker 1: so are our recording sessions for this score roll like
Speaker 1: rock concerts really fun. One thing I'd like to say is,
Speaker 1: you know, we talked a lot about Carrie's character in
Speaker 1: the music that she listened to and stuff. We did
Speaker 1: actually really consider what Elena would be listening to. And
Speaker 1: it was very important because one of the first cues
Speaker 1: you see in the pilot is a piece of music
Speaker 1: at Elena um listens to, and it was really important
Speaker 1: to strike the right chord and to hit the right
Speaker 1: tone and to have the right pep, but also something
Speaker 1: that was hip, but that was you know, it all
Speaker 1: had to fit within her character. And really, even though
Speaker 1: we only hear one of her choices that Elena would
Speaker 1: listen to, we really gave a lot of consideration and
Speaker 1: re gave a lot of consideration to the music or
Speaker 1: character would listen to and the music in the world
Speaker 1: of Shaker Heights. So that was really important to stand
Speaker 1: out for Elena's like this would have been in her
Speaker 1: heavy rotation. There was I think Shania Twain. You know, man,
Speaker 1: I feel like a woman of um. But she but
Speaker 1: they also weighed in heavily about we we went back
Speaker 1: and forth over UM. In episode one of three, there's
Speaker 1: a school dance, and we went back and forth and
Speaker 1: back and forth about what kind of music would play there.
Speaker 1: We really felt like it was you know, first we
Speaker 1: thought was it was going to be an awesome opportunity
Speaker 1: to play some um, you know, cool cool music, you know,
Speaker 1: alternative music from the time period. And then we realized
Speaker 1: as we put it to picture, no, this is a
Speaker 1: school dance. They would have played you know, the top
Speaker 1: forty yea. So we ended up, you know, going with
Speaker 1: what would have been on the radio at the time, UM,
Speaker 1: which is still cool. I mean, we hit it up,
Speaker 1: you know. We we end up with a really fun
Speaker 1: song um Via Luke It's your Birthday yea, And it's
Speaker 1: a It's really fun because the cast like starts dancing
Speaker 1: around and having a great time to that song. It
Speaker 1: was really fun talking to the younger cast of this
Speaker 1: show and I was like, did you know any of
Speaker 1: this music? They're like kind of but they're all none
Speaker 1: of them were alive when this whole show was happening,
Speaker 1: which is a very sobering thing to hear. Uh. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all of them are like, yeah, it's part in two
Speaker 1: thousand one, so I'm not really sure. It's like right, right, right, right, right, Well,
Speaker 1: we're gonna introduce them to some cool music exactly. They
Speaker 1: got the perfect in. Um. Thank you to all three
Speaker 1: of you so much for for making the time and
Speaker 1: talking to us a little bit about your process. I
Speaker 1: really appreciate it very much. Yeah, thank you. Thank you
Speaker 1: again to the incomparable Mary Ramos, Mark Isham and Isabella Summers.
Speaker 1: And thanks to you our listeners for coming to hang
Speaker 1: out with us for another episode of Little Fires Everywhere,
Speaker 1: the official podcast to get a feel for the sights
Speaker 1: and sounds of Shaker Heights, Ohio. I would tell you
Speaker 1: what next week's podcast is about, but it would give
Speaker 1: away too much about the incredible episode that's airing on
Speaker 1: Hulu next Wednesday, So you'll just have to subscribe to
Speaker 1: the podcast and come back next week to see what's
Speaker 1: in store. Remember to follow Little Fires Everywhere on all
Speaker 1: platforms at Little Fires Hulu and look forward to a
Speaker 1: new episode of Little Fires Everywhere the podcast. After new
Speaker 1: episodes of the show air on Hulu each Wednesday. My
Speaker 1: name is Jamie Loftus and until next time, Shaker rides
Speaker 1: h