1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:16,439 Speaker 1: I'm Sarah Dowdy and I'm de Believing Chalk Reboarding, and 4 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 1: we are continuing with our Spooky Halloween October series and 5 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: we figured it would be the perfect time to discuss 6 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: an exhimation. And people do suggest exhlimations to us pretty regularly. 7 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: I was going to say, isn't it always the perfect 8 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:35,200 Speaker 1: time to discuss an exhimation, is if it is stuff 9 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 1: you missed in history class, But we promised that most 10 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: of the time we don't go looking for these exclamations. 11 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: They just kind of happen. It will be something completely 12 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:48,959 Speaker 1: unrelated to a potentially disinterred body, and then suddenly there 13 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 1: is one, so it's kind of a surprise. But this 14 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: one is not a surprise. The exhimation is really pretty 15 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: impossible to avoid, and it's actually what drove listeners like 16 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:04,039 Speaker 1: Matthew and Naomi and Barry, as well as our friend 17 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: and former coworker Molly Edmunds to suggest this topic to 18 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: us in the first place, because it's a strange, strange topic. 19 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: I mean to make the most obvious understatement, Yeah, it 20 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: really is unusual. And like most exhamations that we mentioned 21 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 1: on the podcast, this one wasn't done to verify a 22 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 1: cause of death or to relocate the body. It was 23 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: done to place the months old corpse on trial. So 24 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: of course we have to address the question why would 25 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: anyone disenter a body to put it on trial. Why, indeed, 26 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 1: especially when that body wasn't just anyone but was a 27 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: former pope. So Encyclopedia Britannica always a good place to 28 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: start if you want a general picture for the basics. Yeah, 29 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: they call this trial one of the most bizarre incidents 30 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: in papal history, but you could also call it one 31 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: of the most brutal incidents, one of the most disturbing incidents. 32 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: But dead pope on trial wasn't just this freakish event 33 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: at the time. Before we talk about the trial and 34 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: the specific popes and players involved, we have to talk 35 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 1: a little bit about a dark time called the papal pornocracy. Uh, 36 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,239 Speaker 1: it was, like I said, a series of kind of 37 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: dark years that started just before the end of the 38 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: Carolingian Imperial line in eight eight. So we're talking way 39 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: back this old podcast. So first, just to give you 40 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 1: a little context, we'll talk about something a little more recent. 41 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: After the death of Pope John Paul the second few 42 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 1: years back, people around the world, including non Catholics, learned 43 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: a little bit about the papal electoral process called a conclave. 44 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: But the pope hasn't always been elected by a conclave, 45 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: and in the ninth and tenth centuries the selection process 46 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: had a lot of input from Roman noble families and 47 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: German princes. Now these families put forward their own candidates 48 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 1: and had their own factions, and according to papal historian 49 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: horse k Man quote, the one aim of each party, 50 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,679 Speaker 1: pursued by every resource of violence and intrigue, was to 51 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 1: get control of the chair of St. Peter. It's occupant 52 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 1: must be one of theirs at all costs. So it 53 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: kind of figures that there would be quite a bit 54 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 1: of trouble plus a pretty high turnover. And that's also 55 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 1: a bit of an understatement. A third of the popes 56 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: elected between eight seventy two and ten twelve died under 57 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: suspicious circumstances, and between eight ninety six and nine oh four, 58 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: the most violent unstable period, there were nine popes. So yeah, 59 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: that's a remarkably high turnover, even considering that these are 60 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: older fellows most of the time, even when they're actually 61 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: not always old. But our story takes place in eight 62 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: n so really right in the thick of this highly controversial, 63 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 1: unsettled time, and we're gonna start with the pope who 64 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: started off this high turnover decade, Pope for Moses, who 65 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: is also are exhumed man on trial unfortunately for him. 66 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: And I thought it was interesting because it's not just 67 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: his um the terrible things that happened to him in death, 68 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 1: but the ups and downs of his predeath religious career 69 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 1: kind of epitomized the hazards of the time of being 70 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 1: pope or or being um somebody who was a contender 71 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: to be pope. So he had been born in Rome 72 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:27,840 Speaker 1: in about eight sixteen, and he was made a cardinal 73 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: bishop in eight sixty four by Pope St. Nicholas the First. 74 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 1: We're going to really rattle off a lot of successors 75 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 1: of his in this brief life story. You may want 76 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: to take note. Pope Adrian the Second had sent Um, 77 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:45,280 Speaker 1: the future Pope Formosis on missions to France, where he 78 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 1: had performed quite well. He was highly regarded then under 79 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 1: Pope John the Ape, he had been exiled and excommunicated, 80 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:57,280 Speaker 1: and um there were some pretty outrageous reasons for this, 81 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 1: like despoiling cloisters, and it's seemed pretty obviously political since 82 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,840 Speaker 1: for Mosas had, like I said, a good reputation. He 83 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: was considered ascetic and considered a very peaceful, intelligent man, 84 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: So the reasons for this excommunication were probably more that 85 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: he was himself a good contender to be pope. But 86 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: after time he was pardoned but still not allowed to return. 87 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: Then eventually another pope, Pope Marinis the first, allowed him 88 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: back to Rome and returned him to his position, And 89 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: then under the next two popes, st Adrian the Third 90 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: and Stephen the Fifth sometimes Stephen the sixth, he finally 91 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 1: grew more powerful. So that's quite a busy life story 92 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: just leading up to his eight ninety one election, where 93 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: he himself becomes pope. Under Stephen, though some big political 94 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: things had gone down, so we should tell you a 95 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 1: little bit about that too. Charles the fat, the last 96 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 1: Carolingian in the Imperial line, had died in his place. 97 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: Stephen had reluctantly round Duke Guido of Spoleto out of 98 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 1: a mess of contenders. Roman emperor, but by doing so 99 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 1: he was giving tremendous power to an uncomfortably close neighbor 100 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: of the papal states. So when for Mosis was elected, 101 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: he also had to go along with Stephen and recognized 102 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: Guido and his son Lambert as co Roman emperors. But 103 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: just because for Moses recognized Guido and Lambert as co 104 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 1: Roman empress didn't mean he was one behind them. In fact, 105 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:32,280 Speaker 1: he asked his own preferred candidate, this guy, King Arnulf 106 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: of the East Franks, to come and invade Italy and 107 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: take care of Guido, get rid of him, and get 108 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: rid of his whole faction. And it almost worked. Arnulf 109 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 1: launched a campaign to Italy and an eight for Moses 110 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: did crown him emperor in Rome, so it seemed like 111 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 1: almost success. But before Arnolf could actually battle Lambert out 112 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: in Spoleto, Guido had by this point died. The German 113 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: contender was struck by paralysis, and that's what you'll see 114 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: it described as in miss First. I guess this is 115 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 1: the eight hundreds, so we don't get too many more 116 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:10,239 Speaker 1: details than that. But anyway, Arnulf was out of the running. 117 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 1: He had to quit, and not too long after that 118 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: Formosis died, so it kind of seems like the end 119 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: of this immediate story, but that was not the case 120 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: at all. The story of Formosis actually picked up just 121 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: a couple of weeks later after the brief pontificate of 122 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: Boniface the sixth, when a new pope was again elected, 123 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: Stephen the sixth, there's sometimes the seventh. Unlike Formosis, Stephen 124 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: was a supporter of the splatant party Lambert and his mother, 125 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: the Duchess Aggultrude, But he didn't just support them in 126 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: traditional dignified ways. He agreed to conduct a trial to 127 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 1: punish his predecessor who had betrayed them. So less than 128 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 1: a year after Formosis had died, Stephen had him disinterred, 129 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: dressed in papal vestiments, and enthroned. Stephen acted as a 130 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 1: secutor here in this trial, charging for Mosis with the 131 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 1: charges levied against him during his excommunication, but focusing on 132 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: three main things perjury, coveting the papacy, and violating church cannons, 133 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: specifically transferring from the sea of Porto to that of Rome. 134 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: So a poor eighteen year old deacon was forced by 135 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: Stephen to act as for Mostes's defense. You know, answer 136 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: for him squeaking out some kind of defense whenever he 137 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 1: could interrupt Steven's tirade against the deceased Pope, and he 138 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: was really too scared to get out much more than mumbles. 139 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 1: So unsurprisingly, Stephen found for most Is guilty and ruled 140 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 1: that all of his acts would be null and all 141 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 1: of his ordinations void. And this really had a double 142 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:53,679 Speaker 1: calculated perk in addition to obviously shaming for most of Memory, 143 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: which was the primary reason to do it. For most 144 00:08:56,360 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: has had appointed Stephen himself as a ship and by 145 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:03,959 Speaker 1: having that appointment annulled, Stephen got off the hook for 146 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: some irregularities in his own transfer from one CE to 147 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: that of Rome. So it was pretty pretty tricky on 148 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 1: his part to to clean up his his own record 149 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: a little bit. But it wasn't just about assuring Steven's 150 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: legitimacy though, or cutting out for Moss proteges who he 151 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:29,839 Speaker 1: had um consecrated. It was about just completely disrespecting the 152 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: deceased Pope's body. And I mean, the following is really 153 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:36,679 Speaker 1: pretty disturbing. What they what they did to the guy. 154 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: And I think this is why um this story has 155 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 1: stuck around so so prominently in history, ye know. For example, 156 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:46,839 Speaker 1: the papal vestimates were ripped from the corpse and it 157 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: was redressed in layman's clothes. The fingers used for consecrations 158 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:54,199 Speaker 1: were cut off and Uncle Trude got to keep them, 159 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: and the body was then dragged through the streets buried 160 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:01,199 Speaker 1: in a pauper's grave before being dug up again and 161 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: dumped into the Tiber. But thankfully, there's such a thing 162 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 1: as going too far, and even in this violent partisan 163 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: time in Rome, folks were not happy with Stephen and 164 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: this disgraceful treatment of his predecessor. So it was kind 165 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: of a situation of what goes around comes around. For 166 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: most of his body was eventually pulled out of the 167 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: river by a hermit, where it was reburied, and not 168 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: long after that miracles started being attributed to him. And 169 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: to add to matters for for the Romans who were 170 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: paying attention to the story, the latter in Basilica, which 171 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: is the official ecclesiastical seat of the Bishop of Rome, 172 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: also known as the Pope, collapsed in an earthquake, which 173 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:46,719 Speaker 1: seemed like a terrible, terrible sign. And so all of 174 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:50,559 Speaker 1: this plus Stephen really pushing the point too hard. His 175 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 1: insistence that the clergy ordained by for most to send 176 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:58,959 Speaker 1: in letters acknowledging that their appointments were invalid. All of 177 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 1: this bubbled up and finally led to rebellion. The clergy 178 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: and the people of Rome rose up against Stephen. Yeah, 179 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: so Stephen was stripped of his papal powers and thrown 180 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 1: into prison, and there the allies of Formosis strangled him 181 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: in August. The next Pope, Romanis, lasted only a few months, 182 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,079 Speaker 1: and the one following him, Theodore the Second, just a 183 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,319 Speaker 1: few weeks. But before Theodore died, he got right to 184 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: work on honoring the dead desecrated Formosis. He held his 185 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: own synod, regarding the cadaver synod and nulling Stephen's ruling 186 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: and restoring for mosiss acts in consecrations. He also had 187 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: the body brought back exhoomed once again to St. Peter's 188 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 1: and reburied. And it's old too. So after the brief 189 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: pontificate of Theodore the Second, next came John the Nine, who, 190 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: to really make it clear how uncooled this whole trial 191 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: of the dead pope had been, again nullified. Stephen Senate 192 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:59,439 Speaker 1: twice just for a good measure, and because it apparently 193 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: needed spelling out too. He also prohibited future trials of 194 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 1: dead people. Probably a good policy for anyone, but um 195 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 1: not or at least if we're actually putting the body 196 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:16,079 Speaker 1: on trial. I'll add that caveat. But not everyone was 197 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: a foremost a supporter. I know we're talking about overturning 198 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 1: this cadaver syno uh. The last pope in this decade 199 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 1: of rapid fire succession and intrigue, Pope Sergius the Third, 200 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:32,319 Speaker 1: had supported Stephen from the beginning. He had even taken 201 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: part in the cadaver sin of the trial himself. And 202 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 1: like Stephen, Pope Sergius the third also had an allegiance 203 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: or alliance with the spoleetant faction and Um he had 204 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: had a pope and an antipope strangled to pave the 205 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: way for himself, and Um allied himself further with the 206 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:55,599 Speaker 1: most powerful family in Rome, Senator Theophile act in his 207 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: Byzantine princess wife Theodora, and just kind of a side 208 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 1: out here. Sergius even had a son with their teenage daughter, 209 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:08,599 Speaker 1: who became a very very powerful future Roman matriarch and 210 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: popemaker herself. But as back back to our maintail, here 211 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: as proof of his loyalty to the House of Spiletto. 212 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: Sertius reaffirmed the cadaver synate. And this was really more 213 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:25,599 Speaker 1: than just talk. I mean, I know, it sounds like 214 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: a few years after the fact, maybe just trying to 215 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 1: keep your allies comfortable, but it meant that all of 216 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: formoses ordinations were again invalid. So anyone who had received 217 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: orders under him needed to go back and do it again. 218 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:45,679 Speaker 1: And Sergius was especially vengeual for any bishops who had 219 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:50,719 Speaker 1: been consecrated by Formoses, who would obviously be the men 220 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: most closely connected to the former pope and his enemy. 221 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,439 Speaker 1: So all in all, this is a pretty grizzly story, 222 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: and during the Papal por knock or see it extended 223 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: a bit beyond Sergius. To John Peter fam former Vatican 224 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: diplomat and author of Heirs of the Fisherman. Behind the 225 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 1: Scenes of Papal death and Succession, puts it pretty succinctly 226 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: when he writes that quote, Although at least in the 227 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: minds of believers, the office that these popes have held 228 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: in succession is of divine origin, how these men have 229 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: been raised to that office is a very human affair. Yeah, 230 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: and FAM's book that we just mentioned, I mean, really 231 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 1: does go into the nitty gritty of it all, you know, um, 232 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: looking at the history of popes and how they died 233 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: and what happened after they died, and how uh the 234 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 1: new pope was was chosen. And I think it's interesting 235 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 1: to look at that. We're probably more familiar with the 236 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: twentieth century history, but to look at these times in 237 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: the eight hundreds and nine hundreds and and see what 238 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: was going on and what power plays where we're going on, 239 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: but we want to leave on a pretty interest staying side. 240 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: Net's something to think about. There hasn't ever been a 241 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: pope for most is the second poor guy. Though Cardinal 242 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 1: Pietro Barboa did consider the name in fourteen sixty four, 243 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: he had to be talked out of it. Apparently his 244 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: choice instead was Paul the second sounds a lot safer, 245 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: a lot safer, not calling to mind any dark chapters 246 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: in history, and um, anything you might not want to 247 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 1: think about during a celebratory time. So anyway, though, this 248 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 1: was a really interesting thing to research. So I'm glad 249 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 1: that Molly let us know about it. And thanks to 250 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: Matthew and Naomi and Barry for all suggesting it as 251 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 1: well making letting us know that it was something you'll 252 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 1: really wanted to hear about. Two. Yeah, it seems like 253 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: you can get taken to test sometimes for looking at 254 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: the Pope in such a human light. But it is 255 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: really fascinating, it is. So I think that is a 256 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: good a time as any to bring us to listener 257 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: mail while we're talking about listener suggestion. So our first 258 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: email is from Jennifer and she wrote in to say, 259 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 1: my family and I are traveling around the world for 260 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: a year, two adults and two boys, age ten and eight. 261 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: We first listened to your Marco Polo and Great Wall 262 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: podcasts on the way to the Great Wall of China. 263 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: We listened to your Medici series when we stayed in 264 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: Italy and checked out all the most violent parts of Florence. 265 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: We listened to your podcast about Mary, Queen of Scott's 266 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 1: when we stayed in Sterling, her childhood home in Scotland. 267 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: And now we are listening to your Book of Kells 268 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: podcast on the way to Dublin to see it. So, 269 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: I don't know this might be one that they would 270 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: have wanted to to skip in Rome. I don't know. 271 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 1: But she went on to write, your podcast have made 272 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: history come alive for all of us and really added 273 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 1: some deaths to our travels around the world. Um So, 274 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: I thought that was just such a neat email. We 275 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: do get a lot of um mail from folks who 276 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 1: are traveling and and sort of use the podcast is 277 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: a little travel primer if they're headed somewhere, But I 278 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 1: don't think I've ever heard from a family who was 279 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: traveling around the world for a year. So I take 280 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:12,679 Speaker 1: us with you, Vegas will come. We can like deliver 281 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: live podcasts for your entertainment. Maybe. Um So, thank you 282 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: Jennifer for writing in. I hope you guys are having fun. 283 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:23,639 Speaker 1: And then I also have just kind of a funny email. 284 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 1: Well it probably wasn't funny for Ruschelle of Toronto when 285 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: she wrote it, but she said, today I had to 286 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,919 Speaker 1: go to the dentists and unfortunately get a root canal. 287 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: I'm not good with dental procedures, but I'm happy to 288 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 1: say your podcast on the War of the World's and 289 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: historical hoaxes got me through. I hate hearing all those 290 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: tools worrying and the dentist and hygiena's talking about all 291 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 1: the weird stuff they see. I was so glad when 292 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 1: they said I could listen to my iPod anyway. Thank 293 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: you for those engaging and lengthy podcasts that were just 294 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: the distraction I needed. So um, this too is a 295 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:03,680 Speaker 1: new sort of email. We do hear from lots of 296 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,200 Speaker 1: people who are using the podcast when they're training for 297 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:09,959 Speaker 1: a marathon or they're like working on an Excel spreadsheet 298 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 1: all day or something, But I don't think I've ever 299 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: heard from anybody who was listening during a dental procedure. No, 300 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 1: I mean, I really don't know how long a route 301 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 1: canal take. So maybe we should start time in our 302 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:26,199 Speaker 1: podcast to that specials. Yeah, we can start maybe advertising 303 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: them as um. So thanks for writing in, Rochelle. We're 304 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 1: glad that we helped you through your dental procedure. And um, 305 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 1: if anybody else wants to write in and maybe share 306 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: some other unusual podcasts listening stories with us, keep it 307 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 1: clean though, please, UM you can write us. We are 308 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 1: at history podcast at how stuff works dot com. We're 309 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:56,639 Speaker 1: also on Twitter at mist in history, and we're on Facebook, 310 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 1: and you can of course send us um just your 311 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 1: suggestions to you for for future episodes topics and if 312 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 1: you want to learn a little bit more about the 313 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:07,679 Speaker 1: topics we talked about in this podcast, we have an 314 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:10,680 Speaker 1: article called how the Papacy Works and you can find 315 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 1: it by searching for it on our homepage, which is 316 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: at www dot how stuff works dot com. Be sure 317 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: to check out our new video podcast, Stuff from the Future. 318 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:25,920 Speaker 1: Join how Stuff Work staff as we explore the most 319 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow. The house dopp Works 320 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: iPhone app has a ride. Download it today on iTunes.