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Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to this spinoff episode of

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Speaker 1: The Daily Zeitgeist called Gaconograph Iconograph. Instead of looking at

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Speaker 1: the zeitgeist through current events, we're looking at it through

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Speaker 1: the lens of powerful pop cultural hork cruxes that are

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Speaker 1: our icons, pork Brooks. We use these characters to create meaning,

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Speaker 1: to build identity, to know what our grandfathers were jacking

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Speaker 1: off to grandpa, to teach us that when standing on

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Speaker 1: a subway, great, you should just wear a sensible pair

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Speaker 1: of slacks, much less problems. Uh. And most importantly, we

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Speaker 1: learn how to cure Frank Sinatra's erectile dysfunction. That's right,

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Speaker 1: today we're talking Marilyn Monroe, Nay, Norma Jean. That's the

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Speaker 1: first big one. Do you know our name wasn't even

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Speaker 1: actually Marilyn Monroe.

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Speaker 2: Dude.

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Speaker 1: I'm thrilled to be joined as always by my co host,

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Speaker 1: mister Miles Bray.

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Speaker 2: How are you?

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Speaker 1: Hey hey hey hey, hey, hey hey hey Jean.

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Speaker 3: That's one that's like, I think the only bit of

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Speaker 3: trueba normal Jane is that about her. I think that

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Speaker 3: was the first thing that was my first introduction. My

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Speaker 3: fucking name was dang. There was something like HBO movie

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Speaker 3: where it was like something in like Norma Jean or something,

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Speaker 3: and I was just like, oh, yep, yep, yep, that's

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Speaker 3: and that's the depth of my knowledge of Marilyn Monroe.

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Speaker 3: That and she's buried at Hollywood Forever Cemetery.

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Speaker 1: I think she's buried in the Westwood Cemetery, West Veteran. Yeah, dammit, Miles.

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Speaker 2: And it was drugs and we're we're.

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Speaker 1: Going to talk about it. Oh in our third seat.

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Speaker 1: A t d Z Hall of Famer, one of the

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Speaker 1: very faces on Mount Zeitmore, a brilliant stand up comedian.

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Speaker 1: You've seen on MTV, Comedy Central, NBC, True TV, h

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Speaker 1: You've heard her on Bob's Burgers. You can see her

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Speaker 1: in her hilarious special Life from the Big Dog, and

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Speaker 1: on her podcast spased out with Blair Saki because it

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Speaker 1: is Blair Sockerlair.

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Speaker 4: What's up? Iconographer's Gang?

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Speaker 1: What's up?

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Speaker 4: Miles and Jack Gang?

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Speaker 1: Hello, Blair Sockey.

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Speaker 4: I'm so thrilled to be here. You know what I

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Speaker 4: just remembered actually that I did read a gigantic Marilyn

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Speaker 4: Monroe biography, like years and years and years ago.

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Speaker 1: I had a feeling I had a feeling you had.

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Speaker 4: Because i'd psychically.

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Speaker 1: We're all the collective shared consciousness on the icon scale

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Speaker 1: that we use on this show. I feel like Marilyn

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Speaker 1: Monroe is at the tippy top. Einstein's up there, but.

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Speaker 4: Tupac like where their aura just keeps going for years

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Speaker 4: and years and years and years and years after their death.

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Speaker 3: But also just like the visual like this, once you

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Speaker 3: see it, it's like it's only one person. Some people

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Speaker 3: are so unwell that they're like, that's me now professionally.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, there are We talked about how.

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Speaker 2: There's Elvis impersonators say it to people.

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Speaker 1: Maryland. Impersonators are a thing. I just the generic T

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Speaker 1: shirt store test you walk down a boardwalk today for

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Speaker 1: our office. One of the shittiest parts of LA the

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighties Times Square of La Not.

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Speaker 3: To don't know it was recently ranked as like one

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Speaker 3: of the worst tourist spots, like the in America purely.

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Speaker 1: He officially used German tourists walking around being.

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Speaker 2: Like, what's so many bummed out?

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Speaker 1: But I'll tell you what you will find. You might

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Speaker 1: not find what you were looking for, but you will

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Speaker 1: find many T shirt stores with pictures of Marylyn Monroe

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Speaker 1: on them and cardboard cutouts of Marylyn Monroe. She pas

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Speaker 1: the college dorm room wall like first apartment wall test

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Speaker 1: where just like you know, posters photos. The image of

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Speaker 1: her skirt being blown up by the subway grade is

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Speaker 1: one of the most famous moments in film history, though

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Speaker 1: it wasn't in the movie. That was a publicity stunt.

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Speaker 1: They reshot it on. The thing that we've all seen

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Speaker 1: was from a publicity shoot, and the reshoot that was

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Speaker 1: in the movie is not the same. Also, I'd say

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Speaker 1: one of the most misunderstood figures that we've covered so far,

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Speaker 1: Like that song, which was the first thing I knew about.

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Speaker 1: Goodbye norm Jean talks about her like as kind of

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Speaker 1: this like helpless victim, Like it talks about how Hollywood

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Speaker 1: made her change her name and like Hollywood created a superstar.

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Speaker 1: She did that shit. Man, She wanted to be a star,

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Speaker 1: and she was like really smart and really good at it.

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Speaker 1: She had to do twice as much to get half

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Speaker 1: as far as the men of her era, and she

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Speaker 1: still became, like I thought she was like famous and

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Speaker 1: then died and became like even more famous. She was

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Speaker 1: the most famous person on the planet, and she was alive,

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Speaker 1: she was a wild I feel.

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Speaker 4: Like she also started the whole thing where she really

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Speaker 4: like pretended to be a certain way, you know, this

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Speaker 4: soft like sex kitten, but really like the Paris Hilton

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Speaker 4: thing where it's like people had no idea how calculated

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Speaker 4: and intentional she was.

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Speaker 1: Do you have access to my notes?

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Speaker 2: Do you shoulder?

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Speaker 4: Here? Is the same biography though, even though mine was

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Speaker 4: many years ago. YEA fascinated because there's word, there's word

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Speaker 4: of Russell's whispers on the Internet that they think that

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Speaker 4: she might have also been a fellow autistic baddie and

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Speaker 4: so considering it through that lens.

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Speaker 1: Okay, But in terms of her films, I think that's

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Speaker 1: a very important point that you just brought up, that

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Speaker 1: her she like played the character from her films also

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Speaker 1: in reality and like all of she had like movie

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Speaker 1: lines ready to go for her real life, like it

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Speaker 1: was just like she had she had crackling comedic dialogue

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Speaker 1: in like press conferences. But just in terms of like

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Speaker 1: her films, they grossed two hundred million dollars by the

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Speaker 1: time of her death. That's the equivalent of two billion

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Speaker 1: dollars today twenty four in.

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Speaker 2: Back then money too. Yeah, oh my god.

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Speaker 1: Okay, and then her death is mysterious, like it's not

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Speaker 1: we we did Elvis last week player, And like Elvis's death,

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Speaker 1: he is fairly straightforward, like he was just doing so

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Speaker 1: many drugs and died from doing so so many drugs.

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Speaker 1: But with and And, people were just like, he's not

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Speaker 1: really dead because they just needed that to be true.

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Speaker 1: With Marilyn Monroe, like there is some very real, shady

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Speaker 1: shit that happened surrounding her death. So we're gonna we're

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Speaker 1: gonna spend more of this episode talking about her death

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Speaker 1: than maybe with past icons.

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Speaker 4: I wondered if I was gonna bring be the one

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Speaker 4: to bring up that freaky ship.

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Speaker 1: No, there's a yeah. I mean I ultimately I don't

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Speaker 1: think that she was killed by Frank Sinatra, JFK, RFK

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Speaker 1: and the CIA all at the same time. But uh,

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Speaker 1: there there's just some there's some weird ship that happened.

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Speaker 1: There's some weird shit went down, all right, But should

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Speaker 1: we get into just the bio and yeah, you know when.

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Speaker 3: Let me know, oh good that that part is from

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Speaker 3: Candle in the Wind. Is that what you're talking about?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, oh yeah, Like.

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Speaker 2: The whole time I was.

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Speaker 1: Like, is there a song called Goodbye Normal Jean?

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Speaker 2: Or isn't that the big part of that.

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Speaker 1: At the beginning, that's the first line of wind Yeah, yeah, yeah, which.

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Speaker 3: Is about her every mother's favorite song from nineteen ninety seven.

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Speaker 1: He should have just kept making songs like because he

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Speaker 1: did it for Princess Die. He should just be that

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Speaker 1: every time someone died. Oh, he could make a lot

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Speaker 1: of mone. I'm just saying he can make a lot

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Speaker 1: of money.

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Speaker 2: He could have done a Betty White one. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I also just saw Goodbye Golden Girls.

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Speaker 4: You know the people like all her husbands, like they

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Speaker 4: still loved her so much, like after their breakups, like

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Speaker 4: Joe DiMaggio sent her flowers every week.

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Speaker 1: Obsessed. Oh my god, you're obsessed with me. He was

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Speaker 1: super obsessed, but also a complete fucking monster when they

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Speaker 1: were married. But we're going to get to all of that.

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Speaker 1: We're just so. She was born Norma Jean Mortenson on

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Speaker 1: June first, nineteen twenty six, and the charity ward of

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles General Hospital. She was born very poor. Her

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Speaker 1: mother was diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic, and Norma Jean

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Speaker 1: wound up in various foster homes and orphanages her mom's diagnosis.

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Speaker 1: I just want to like this gave her, Like her

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Speaker 1: mom always being institutionalized, gave Marilyn a lifelong fear of

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Speaker 1: mental words, and like she would never lock her door,

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Speaker 1: which is gonna come into play in her death, but

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Speaker 1: probably understandable given the state of psychiatric care at the time.

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Speaker 1: And I just want to give a quick anecdote from

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Speaker 1: her mom's life that I think sets the stage for

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Speaker 1: the world of psychiatry, because that's a big part of

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Speaker 1: her story too, because you know, a lot of the

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Speaker 1: biographies are speculating about like what kind of mental illness

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Speaker 1: she had, and it's tough to tell because it was

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Speaker 1: a time when like women were not trusted at all,

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Speaker 1: and like just them having something to say or a

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Speaker 1: complaint was pathologized. This is just a wild anecdote from

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Speaker 1: her mom's life. So this is in the Donald Spotto

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Speaker 1: biography Male in Mom Roe. The biography tells the story

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Speaker 1: about how her mom learned that her most recent husband

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Speaker 1: had been killed in a motorcycle accident in Ohio, and

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Speaker 1: it turns out that wasn't true. It was just a

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Speaker 1: guy with the same name with like a similar background,

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Speaker 1: and her husband was still a lot than just being

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Speaker 1: a typical like shit ass absentee husband from the mid

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Speaker 1: twentieth century. Identity was like a real loose thing back

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Speaker 1: then where they were like Marilyn Momroe Norman Gy like

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Speaker 1: had different names on her birth certificate, on her baptismal certificate,

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Speaker 1: like your name was what you told them at the

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Speaker 1: DMV and they're like whatever you want to call yourself late, right,

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Speaker 1: But so by the time her mom's real husband shows

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Speaker 1: up from you know, being a shit ass Gladys, Marilyn's

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Speaker 1: mom is institutionalized and she gets a call from her

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Speaker 1: dead husband, which for someone who's been taught not to

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Speaker 1: trust her own mental health, like, she freaked the FuG out.

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Speaker 1: She like, yeah, she tried to like call him back,

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Speaker 1: and the people in the institution are like, she's trying

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Speaker 1: to call her dead husband. The dame's baby boys get

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Speaker 1: the butterfly nets, and because she freaks out about that,

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Speaker 1: they send her to a high security facility and like

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Speaker 1: people only really know about this, like mind fuck of

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Speaker 1: a thing that happened, because her daughter then goes on

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Speaker 1: to become the most famous person in the world, like

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Speaker 1: otherwise it's just a thing that happened to people at

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Speaker 1: that time was just people diagnosed you and then stop

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Speaker 1: believing anything that you had to say.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, once that labels on there, right.

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Speaker 4: Especially the women, I mean like oh yeah, it's kind

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Speaker 4: of analogous to I mean like the Witch's time. Like

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Speaker 4: if one person just said you're a witch, like all

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Speaker 4: this sudden, you're a witch, and if you were like

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Speaker 4: if they're like, oh, she's she has hysteria, she has

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Speaker 4: the vapors, then they're like your toast.

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Speaker 1: Right, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, this is the time of

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Speaker 1: lobotomies where they're like, she's difficult and we're gonna deal

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Speaker 1: with that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: For instance, right, so you know, her mom is in

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Speaker 1: and out of the picture. She goes from foster family

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Speaker 1: to foster family. Most biographers agree she's a toed at

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Speaker 1: age twelve and just has it. Has a really rough upbringing,

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Speaker 1: like she doesn't really have a home ever, and to

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Speaker 1: the point that like one of her maternal figures who

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Speaker 1: like took her to movies and like really helped delay.

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Speaker 1: The foundation for this also is like I found this

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Speaker 1: guy that I really like in West Virginia, So you're

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Speaker 1: going to marry our neighbor James Doherty, who to her

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Speaker 1: was just mister Doherty. And she is sixteen years old

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Speaker 1: when they marry her off. She's forced to drop out

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Speaker 1: of high school.

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Speaker 4: To do you imagine how scary that would be.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Wait, so this Carol One maternal figure she had was

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Speaker 2: just like, you're marrying mister Doherty.

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Speaker 1: You're marrying mister Doherty, our neighbor, because I don't know

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Speaker 1: what else to do with you.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, that she would be taking care of you probably, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's at sixteen, okay.

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Speaker 1: And care yeah, straight up like dark age as shit,

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Speaker 1: where just like you may marrier off that's like the best,

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Speaker 1: the best way to kind of solve this problem. So

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Speaker 1: this is around the time of World War Two. He

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Speaker 1: joins the Merchant Marines and she starts working at a factory,

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Speaker 1: and weirdly enough, she is at the forefront of drone warfare.

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Speaker 1: At this time. She worked in a World War two

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Speaker 1: defense plant for a company called radio Plane, which made small,

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Speaker 1: remote controlled, pilotless aircraft. And it's straight up like there's

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Speaker 1: a direct line from people who had toy planes, like

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Speaker 1: toy remote controlled planes, to our modern drone warfare because

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Speaker 1: there's an actor named Reginald Denny no no relation, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: another same name. Yeah. So he's a famous actor who's

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Speaker 1: obsessed with remote control airplanes and is like, we could

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Speaker 1: start using these for target practice for the US Army,

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Speaker 1: like I think in nineteen thirty five. And then his

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Speaker 1: toy plane. He was so into toy planes. He had

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Speaker 1: a factory that gets converted into this like anti aircraft,

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Speaker 1: you know, drill thing that then gets acquired by Northrop

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Speaker 1: Aircraft and becomes essentially Northrop Grumman's autonomous systems that we

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Speaker 1: have today. Wow, she is the very first like public

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Speaker 1: pictures modeling pictures of her are her putting the propellers

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Speaker 1: on these planes that go on to become the first drones.

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Speaker 2: That's wow.

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Speaker 1: And another wild anecdote about those first pictures. So this

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Speaker 1: is where she's first discovered. Reginald Denny, the actor, is

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Speaker 1: at his factory and sees her. Says to this military

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Speaker 1: captain that he knew from Hollywood, you gotta get somebody

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Speaker 1: over here to look at the talent, you know what

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Speaker 1: I'm saying, brother, And that captain sends over a photographer

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Speaker 1: who takes these kind of rosy the river at her pictures.

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Speaker 1: Of her that end up getting some attention and like

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Speaker 1: launching her modeling career. That captain that he like reached

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Speaker 1: out to who hired the photographer Ronald Reagan. Wow, the only.

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Speaker 4: Picture of them the other day to get there, of

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Speaker 4: Ronald Reagan when he was still like an actor, the.

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Speaker 1: Only good thing in his legacy, and it required no

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Speaker 1: talent and could have been done by a phone operator.

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Speaker 1: But he is indirectly responsible for basically passing along the

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Speaker 1: message that this actor was horny for this woman who

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Speaker 1: worked in his factory, who ends up being Marilyn Monroe. Wow,

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Speaker 1: so get fucked, Ronald Reagan. This is the only good

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Speaker 1: thing you did, and it required no Okay, yeah, that

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Speaker 1: should have been the end. If only that had been

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Speaker 1: the end of.

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Speaker 2: This is I'm looking at the picture. Her hair is brown.

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Speaker 1: Her hair is brown and curly.

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Speaker 4: And reddish in the beginning kind of yes, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 4: before she to her famous.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is where we get into So from this

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Speaker 1: very first photo shoot, she is like an immediate savant

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Speaker 1: and also like student of modeling. But yeah, to your point,

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Speaker 1: I don't think I ever like associated her with like

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Speaker 1: getting work done. I thought the work she had done

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Speaker 1: was just like her hair died blonde. She also had

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Speaker 1: a bump removed from her nose, had a silicon line

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Speaker 1: added to her jaw, got her overbite fixed, which was

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Speaker 1: paid for by the head of William Morris, who was

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Speaker 1: her boyfriend at that time. But she was like kind

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Speaker 1: of a Kardashian before the Kardashians.

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Speaker 4: I'm crazy. I've always wondered about that because I didn't

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Speaker 4: know that they could do that stuff.

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Speaker 2: A silicon, a silicon line in your jaw, like a.

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Speaker 4: Jaw, like you know what people put like filler in

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Speaker 4: their jaw. Now that's some Oh so this is just

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Speaker 4: like yeah, like sharp drawling.

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Speaker 1: Yeah wow. But just a couple of things from these

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Speaker 1: early stages because like the photographer at the time was

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Speaker 1: he said, blown away by her ability to scan as

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Speaker 1: sex on film. He also claimed they had a steamy

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Speaker 1: affair which is cooperated by him and only that's another

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Speaker 1: thing that just across her whole life. Everybody's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: everybody the second she dies is like, here's my biography

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Speaker 1: where and I have with Marilyn Monroe.

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Speaker 3: So everyone becomes the Chris Farley bush Driver character in

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Speaker 3: Billy Maddison.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly, And the biographers are like, yeah, nobody

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Speaker 1: believes that shit man, So it's kind of a pathetic look.

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Speaker 1: But he talks about how she's able to like flirt

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Speaker 1: with the camera in a way that like seems uncanny.

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Speaker 1: But I just want to read this from there's a

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Speaker 1: newer biography. The Spoto one that I mentioned earlier is

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Speaker 1: kind of the most widely read one, but there's a

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Speaker 1: newer one that I think might correct some of that

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Speaker 1: stuff by Jay Randy Tamborelli, called The Secret Life of

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Speaker 1: Marilyn Monroe. This quote is about these very first pictures

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Speaker 1: that she takes. Besides the speed of her success, what

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Speaker 1: was also fascinating about Norma Jean's first photo sessions was

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Speaker 1: how quickly she seemed to understand the business of modeling.

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Speaker 1: She was very inquisitive about the process and highly critical

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Speaker 1: of her appearance. For instance, she asked David Conover, that's

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Speaker 1: the guy who's taking these very first pictures, questions about lighting,

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Speaker 1: about different camera lenses, about how he coaxed his models

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Speaker 1: into giving their best performances in meetings with him. After

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Speaker 1: the sessions, she would study the contact sheets with the

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Speaker 1: kind of careful scrutiny one might expect from a professional model.

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Speaker 1: She wanted to know what she'd done wrong if an

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Speaker 1: exposure didn't meet with her approval. Again, like right from

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Speaker 1: the start, like in these photographs that are for an

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Speaker 1: army magazine called Yank, which oh my god, double entendre intended,

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Speaker 1: I have to assume like you're yeah, they're like you

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Speaker 1: jack off to this one. But the point about her

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Speaker 1: being highly critical of her appearance and you know, the

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Speaker 1: stuff we were talking about about her like getting a

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Speaker 1: bump in her nose fixed, and it seems like, first

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Speaker 1: of all very like crazy making to like exist in that,

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Speaker 1: but also she's really good at like viewing herself from

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Speaker 1: outside herself, Like right from the start, she's just immediately

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Speaker 1: like yeah, exactly, she's just like I'm viewing herself as

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Speaker 1: a product and being like how do I fix this.

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Speaker 1: There's another quote from the Spotto biography from one of

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Speaker 1: her early modeling teachers about again how hard she worked,

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Speaker 1: but also just the weird geometries of beauty that like

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Speaker 1: people talk about in the modeling industry. So she this

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Speaker 1: woman says she was a clean cut American, wholesome girl,

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Speaker 1: too plump, fuck off, but beautiful in a way we

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Speaker 1: tried to teach her how to pose, how to handle

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Speaker 1: her body. She always tried to lower her smile because

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Speaker 1: she smiled too high and it made her nose look

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Speaker 1: a little long. At first, she knew nothing about carriage posture, sitting,

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Speaker 1: or walking. She started out with less than any girl

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Speaker 1: I ever knew, but she wanted to learn, wanted to

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Speaker 1: be somebody more than anybody I ever saw before in

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Speaker 1: my life. So again, just like a student from the start,

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Speaker 1: but also the shit that she had to study is

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Speaker 1: like horrifying. For they're like, yeah, when you smile like that,

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Speaker 1: it makes your nose look long.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: And I just think also some of these people, like

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Speaker 4: these icons that impact culture in the way they do,

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Speaker 4: It's like it does feel like this real destined thing

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Speaker 4: because there's just all this certain amount of things that

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Speaker 4: add up into this like completely remarkable alchemy. You know,

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Speaker 4: like she comes from this insane childhood like absolutely nothing.

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Speaker 4: Then she learns how to be basically like ponjure energy

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Speaker 4: in a way that she can seduce like an entire

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Speaker 4: population for yeah, millennia.

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Speaker 3: Right right, Yeah, I mean to know, like you're to

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Speaker 3: your point of being so early to having that kind

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Speaker 3: of media savvy in such an early phase of like

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Speaker 3: mass media and be like, Okay, I know what I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna know what.

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Speaker 2: My angles are.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna know what a well lit thing looks like

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Speaker 3: because every image that you will cast your gaze upon

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Speaker 3: will be perfected for maximum effect.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you guys are absolutely like nailing that. She had

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Speaker 1: this like ability that people were like, she's just got

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Speaker 1: a magic power. I don't know what it is, right,

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Speaker 1: and it comes from like studying. And there's a quote

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Speaker 1: not to jump ahead, but like this continues right into

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Speaker 1: her work on film, Like on the set her co

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Speaker 1: stars would be like, this is a fucking disaster, and

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Speaker 1: then they would see the movie and be like. There's

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Speaker 1: a quote from her co star in one of her

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Speaker 1: early movies, Richard Windmark, and he said, at first we

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Speaker 1: thought she's not going to get anything right, and we'd mutter, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is impossible, Oh this is impossible. You can't print this.

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Speaker 1: But something happened between the lens and the film, and

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Speaker 1: when we looked at the rushes, which is like the

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Speaker 1: dailies from the she had the rest of us knocked

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Speaker 1: off the screen. And that just like happens over and

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Speaker 1: over where everyone's like, she's fucking up our movie. And

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Speaker 1: then you look on film and you hear this a

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Speaker 1: lot about like movie stars, where like people are on

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Speaker 1: the set of a movie and they're like, what the

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Speaker 1: fuck was that? Like he appears to be like whispering

399
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Speaker 1: or like there, you know, you don't see anything happening,

400
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Speaker 1: And then you actually look what they're doing with the

401
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Speaker 1: camera and it's like, oh, they know exactly what they're doing.

402
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Speaker 1: It's just very subtle, you know, and some people can't

403
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Speaker 1: appreciate it.

404
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,399
Speaker 4: I also think that there's this inherent thing in it

405
00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:01,119
Speaker 4: still very much exists today, and it's just a psychological

406
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 4: bias that if someone's a really gorgeous woman slash blonde,

407
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,359
Speaker 4: but just women in general, that they can't and like

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Speaker 4: I even catch myself. It's such deep programming for so

409
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:17,200
Speaker 4: many thousand, millions of years actually thousands, I don't know where.

410
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Speaker 4: You can't be that smart, you can't know what you're doing.

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Speaker 4: It's like an either or a Madonna horror situation. Right,

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Speaker 4: you can't be a super intelligent person and also.

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Speaker 3: Like a sex right yes, and then when you are

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Speaker 3: people are just like, I don't know what they're doing.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like no, it's like they know what they're

417
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Speaker 2: doing well.

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Speaker 4: Shock and surprise, right right right, And it's just it

419
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Speaker 4: still happens like if I see a super hot person

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Speaker 4: on stage, I'm like, oh, they're not going to say

421
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Speaker 4: something funny, you know, like it's they're guilty until proven innocent.

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Speaker 2: Sure, dumb, they're dumb.

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Speaker 1: Everybody look how hot? Yeah, So the modeling career takes

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Speaker 1: off and then it leads to acting jobs, including parts

425
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,879
Speaker 1: in John Houston's The Asphalt Jungle. These are all like

426
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Speaker 1: minor parts, but you know, she starts getting fan mail

427
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 1: kind of right away. This is when she changes her

428
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 1: name from Norma Jean Doherty to Marilyn Monroe. So Monroe

429
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,400
Speaker 1: was her mother's maiden name, and then they were trying

430
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Speaker 1: to come up with the right first name, and this

431
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 1: Fox executive Ben Lyon was like, there used to be

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Speaker 1: this stage actress Marilyn Miller, who you kind of reminded

433
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Speaker 1: me of. And he later reveals like he was engaged

434
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Speaker 1: to her and she died at thirty eight, and he

435
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: was like, I don't they just like have a similar

436
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 1: vibe and also felt like similarly faded to like it's

437
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 1: kind of like this haunting confluence of like, well, don't

438
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 1: give her that name, man.

439
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:53,680
Speaker 3: Yeah fuck, oh reminder of this woman who died young tragically.

440
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, but that was also a thing back then. I

441
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 4: mean like it sounds like she was wanting this, but

442
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 4: like in that specific time period, like these girls would

443
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 4: walk into these studios and they'd get these studio deals

444
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,400
Speaker 4: and they'd be like, Okay, we need to change your name,

445
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,479
Speaker 4: your voice, you need to get married, so that too

446
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:13,919
Speaker 4: for your image, you need to be seen with this person,

447
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:19,360
Speaker 4: you know, like they would construct these entire personas from

448
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 4: the ground up. It's pretty interesting.

449
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. And in her case, there's a lot of

450
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 1: like studios being involved, but she is like they don't

451
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: trust her. There's the head of twentieth century Fox, Darryl

452
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 1: f Xanik, fired her months before she was in all

453
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 1: Abaltiv because she was not photogenic, was what he said.

454
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 1: So she like had to bounce back and forth. And

455
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 1: so a thing you see in a lot of biographies

456
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 1: is people being like I gave Marilyn Monroe this idea,

457
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 1: and I, you know, I taught her how to pose

458
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 1: in pictures like that one lady, And it's like well,

459
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,639
Speaker 1: twenty thousand people can't be responsible.

460
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 2: At a certain point.

461
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 1: We have to at a certain point, we have to

462
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 1: look at the common denominator, which is Marilyn Monroe knew

463
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 1: exactly what the fuck she was doing and just kept

464
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 1: doing it really well all along. So in nineteen forty nine,

465
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: she's still pretty unknown. She's like has these bit parts

466
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: in the background of movies, and she's a famous kind

467
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 1: of pin up model, and she poses nude for a

468
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 1: photographer that and got paid fifty dollars for the shoot,

469
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: and she's on the cusp of stardom. And a Chicago

470
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,439
Speaker 1: publisher includes one of the nude photos in a nineteen

471
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 1: fifty one calendar, and then that calendar sells so well

472
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: that they're just like, that's actually next year's calendar too,

473
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 1: And they just keep selling these calendars with nude photos

474
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:54,119
Speaker 1: of Marilyn Monroe in it. And that's something I didn't realize,

475
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: like what one of the biographies was, basically like her

476
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:02,239
Speaker 1: nude photos were more widely available than her movies, Like

477
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 1: everybody had kind of seen these because everyone was just

478
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:08,640
Speaker 1: I guess that was like the equivalent of a sex

479
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 1: tape back then. It was like a calendar with nude

480
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: women's with nude women's women Okay, and so she had

481
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: like kind of starred in this underground, successful nude calendar

482
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: and so I guess in that way again just more

483
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 1: similar to like a Kim Kardashian than I expected. And

484
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: so her career starts to take off in movies and

485
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 1: then Fox is like, oh boy, like they get word

486
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 1: that she's in this calendar and she comes in for

487
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: this meeting and they're like, well, is it you? And

488
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 1: she's like, I'm really ashamed. I'm super embarrassed because they

489
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 1: didn't really get my best angle. Like she's just like

490
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 1: immediately like get dropping like fucking lines from a movie

491
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: on these studio executives who are like freaking the fuck out. Yeah.

492
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: There's also like people later asked her about the photo shoot,

493
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 1: like because there's tons of press around this like this

494
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 1: is the year that like and this scandal is kind

495
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 1: of what breaks her again, like similar to the Kim

496
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 1: Kardashian thing where she's famous ish and then this nudity

497
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 1: scandal happens and suddenly everybody's like holy shit, like nobody's

498
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 1: ever done something like this, and somebody's like, did you

499
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 1: have anything Marylynd Maryland, did you have anything on at

500
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 1: all during the shoot? And she's and she said I

501
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 1: had the radio on, which is such a good.

502
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 4: Line, and you know, I'm sure she wasn't. I'm sure

503
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 4: she's like, whoever, whatever man didn't negotiate for her to

504
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 4: get a like percentage or royalties from those being reprinted

505
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 4: over and over and over, right, So that yeah, sure

506
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 4: landed her, Thank God and movies.

507
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 1: Right exactly, So she does it does help her launch

508
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 1: her career, which like very savvy. The way that she

509
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: handled the quote unquote scandal was she like knew that

510
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 1: there was this journalist who was a woman who she

511
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: was like, I'm going to give you an exclusive interview

512
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 1: on this, and like was like, okay, can we go

513
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 1: off the record? Like, look, I did this because I

514
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: couldn't eat, and like now it's becoming a huge problem

515
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: for my career, Like do you have any like I

516
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: needed that money just to be able to actually put

517
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 1: food in my mouth? Do you have any advice on

518
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 1: like what I could do? Like pretending it was off

519
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 1: the record, but she knew for a fact, so they

520
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 1: were going to print that she actually used the money

521
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: to put a down payment on her car, so she's

522
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: going to lose her car. I know she's so I know,

523
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 1: she's so fucking cool. Oh my god. But that becomes

524
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 1: the story. That becomes the story she becomes, like the

525
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: rags to richest thing kind of becomes a part of

526
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: her story. And she's just like playing all these angles.

527
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: She's playing the stew video. You know, they're like we

528
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: got to be ashamed of her, we got to fire her.

529
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: And she comes in and is like, no, it's not

530
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: a big deal, and I'm going to talk to this

531
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: woman and make it all right. And she does, and

532
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: like that makes her this kind of unknown quantity in

533
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: American culture, which is like still super repressed at this time,

534
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 1: like somebody who is not afraid of their nudity or

535
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 1: their sexuality and is just like yeah, fuck it.

536
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 4: Like so interesting though, because she moves like the mind

537
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 4: of like Ari Ari Gold, what's his name, Ari Gold,

538
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 4: Ari Manuel, whatever, I don't know, I'm conflict.

539
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 3: Yeah no, you said Ari Gold based on Ari Emmanuel.

540
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 4: Oh okay, I have no idea about my recall, but

541
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 4: like I'm it's just so interesting because I'm like wondering,

542
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 4: did she have someone engineering this or these are just

543
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 4: all her ideas like Blair.

544
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 2: Period, so we can't question the genius.

545
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 3: Really, I love it's everybody one of the best improvisers

546
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 3: I think we've ever seen.

547
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 1: Everybody at the time. And speaking of improvisers, like everybody's

548
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: like she's really like has amazing comedic timing, She's like witty,

549
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: she has like her performances. She's playing a dumb blonde,

550
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 1: but her performances are like you know actors are like,

551
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: holy shit, She's got.

552
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 4: Like Sprina Carpenter is like really channeling this. I feel

553
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 4: like a.

554
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: Lot I think a lot of people have.

555
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, a lot of people obviously have definitely like so

556
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 4: this does seem yeah now, like with the humor and

557
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 4: like the sexuality.

558
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,959
Speaker 1: And I think Sabrina Carpenter is a great reference for this.

559
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, but just so much mega watts star power

560
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 4: with like the funniness and like the not taking yourself

561
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 4: too seriously, with like so much beauty.

562
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: Also yes, also like I hadn't realized. I think I

563
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 1: think I did maybe know that the first Playboy had

564
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: Marilyn Mamra on the car, but you have you Hefner

565
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 1: bought that calendar photo for five hundred dollars. Marilyn Monroe

566
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,719
Speaker 1: never got any more than her original fifty dollars, and

567
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 1: that is what launched Playboy, was him just putting the

568
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 1: calendar photo. Calendar photo, that's the calendar photo is just

569
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 1: the one that she got paid fifty dollars. He bought

570
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 1: for five hundred dollars. Uh. And this like massively powerful

571
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 1: brand like Playboy, like that is launched by.

572
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 4: Heefner, Like I hate that man.

573
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, not cool, not cool.

574
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 2: But the other way what happened.

575
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: With I know, I was gonna say, like so this

576
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: ability of him for him to just like pay five

577
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 1: hundred dollars for this photograph that launches the entire like

578
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: this massively powerful brand is fucking crazy. And again it's

579
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 1: like this huge brand that launches careers, like I don't

580
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: know Miles, right, does Jamie loftis Jamie? But that brand

581
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 1: doesn't exist exist if it's not right without Maryland that

582
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 1: she is like cultivating and like this chess game that

583
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 1: she's playing with the public.

584
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 3: That's actually like one of the most damning, the biggest

585
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 3: indictment against Playboy as this massive institution is to know

586
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 3: that it was launched off the back of him being like, dude,

587
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 3: you know that Poppin calendar. Yeah, that's going to be

588
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 3: the cover. That's like that's like some NFT ship that yeah,

589
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. He's like, yeah, it's just

590
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 3: like my fucking art dog. No, you've literally hitched your

591
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 3: wagon to this massive star.

592
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 2: That's wild.

593
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 1: I stole her whole ship, like all of his like

594
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 1: bunnies kind of like drafted off of her, like look

595
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 1: off of her, and like he bought the plot above

596
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 1: her in the Westwood Cemetery and was like when you

597
00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: bury me, like bury me above Maryland and then his yeah, yeah,

598
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: and his surviving wife was like, I'm actually gonna sell

599
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,320
Speaker 1: that and pay off my mortgage.

600
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm gonna put your ashes in. I'm gonna put

601
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 2: your ashes.

602
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:16,240
Speaker 3: In a wonderbread bag and throw it off the ten Freeway.

603
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 1: But this is the stretch where, like, you know how

604
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:23,359
Speaker 1: we had those periods where like Elon Musk is just

605
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 1: like constantly in the fucking news and you just like

606
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 1: can't escape him. Right now, it's like she's just every

607
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 1: day people at the time described as just being like

608
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 1: every day there's a new Marilyn Monroe story. Everybody's just

609
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,799
Speaker 1: like obsessed with her. There's this one year where she's

610
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: like marrying Joe DiMaggio, She's getting emergency surgery for appendicitis.

611
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 1: She's revealed to be the Naked Lady and the nude calendar.

612
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 1: There's like some paparazzi are caught like selling nude pictures

613
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 1: they took without her permission, Like like that Aaron Andrews story.

614
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,399
Speaker 1: Do you remember where that like creepy guy was like yeah,

615
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 1: like that have to her, like and it's like the

616
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: whole world is just like obsessed with her in a

617
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 1: way that I hadn't really. I just thought I thought

618
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 1: because that song was like one of the main first

619
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 1: things I just thought. It was like she was this

620
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 1: tragic figure. She was this like massive media mogul who

621
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 1: just wasn't getting paid like a mogul, but was like

622
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 1: create in terms of like the pop cultural power of

623
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: what she was creating was just insane. Also, during her

624
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 1: appendix surgery, just back to like how women were treated

625
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 1: in the medical world, she felt the need to put

626
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 1: a post it note on her abdomen as she was

627
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:44,840
Speaker 1: going into surgery, being like, please don't botch my surgery

628
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:49,800
Speaker 1: and make me infertile. Xx. Marilyn Monroe and the doctor.

629
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: The doctor got nervous and like brought in a gynecologist

630
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 1: for her appendic surgery because I guess he was planning

631
00:35:57,520 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 1: to botch her surgery up to that point.

632
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 2: I mean, not playing like he was shook after that.

633
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 4: She's so smart. That's what I did. Right before my

634
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 4: tumor surgery were like literally right. But as I was

635
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:10,959
Speaker 4: going on door, I was like, please don't shave my head.

636
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 1: I know you're not going to shave my head.

637
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:14,760
Speaker 4: Please don't shame begging.

638
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 3: Wait, but is that that was just a technique thing

639
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 3: of being able to do the surgery without shaving or

640
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 3: having to shave your head.

641
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 4: Well, they had told me for six months they were

642
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 4: going to have to shave my head get the tumor out.

643
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 4: It's like a big area. And then I woke up

644
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 4: and I just had like a little my hair was

645
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 4: still there with like a big patch gone.

646
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 2: There you go.

647
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 4: But Marilyn, I have friends who do this too, like

648
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 4: who have said before they went under for the C section,

649
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,760
Speaker 4: like please, and they're like, and I asked the doctor

650
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,399
Speaker 4: at the last minute, like please make me the smallest scar.

651
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 4: And that's why I was such a small scar.

652
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 3: You know, and they go, you know what, for you,

653
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 3: I'm going to do something very different this time.

654
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 2: For you. I do this seven times a day.

655
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 4: Her currency you know, yeah, yeah.

656
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 1: Sure, the post it is. And it's also just like, hey,

657
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 1: could you please view me as a human being? Yeah?

658
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 1: Thank you? That would be so such.

659
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,399
Speaker 3: Oh boy, I got a lady in here who doesn't

660
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 3: want me to botch her appendixer, she can write boy.

661
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:23,319
Speaker 1: So this is where we start getting like some of

662
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 1: her most iconic film performances. There's the movie Gentleman Prefer Blondes,

663
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 1: which has the Diamonds or a Girl's Best Friend performance,

664
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,840
Speaker 1: which is I kind of I hadn't watched it until

665
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 1: doing the research for this, and it is essentially like

666
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 1: if you've seen the Madonna material Girl music video, it's

667
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 1: kind of just a shot for shot remake of the performance.

668
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 1: That's where her like pink dress comes from.

669
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 4: I need to watch that. I've never seen it.

670
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 1: But this is also a time like the Women's Club

671
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 1: was like a group that would come in and be like,

672
00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 1: you can't have her on camera looking this good, like

673
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: she's too This is what we talked about this a

674
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 1: lot with Elvis. She was like too hot and America

675
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 1: was too horny, and they just felt like they had

676
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:11,800
Speaker 1: to protect people from her.

677
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 2: Oh, like they're like.

678
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 3: This is like nuclear atomic energy you're feeling around heart.

679
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 4: This is a time where women can't own property by themselves,

680
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 4: don't have credit cards by themselves, probably have there still

681
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 4: can't have no fault divorce. Like women are socialized so

682
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 4: deeply to believe that their livelihood is being chosen by

683
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:43,760
Speaker 4: their man, and then keeping their man to keep their family.

684
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 4: And so when you get this whole new sexual presence,

685
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,839
Speaker 4: I could see easily how those women all, and it's sad,

686
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 4: felt so threatened all of a sudden, you know, and

687
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 4: men probably are thinking there's a whole new thing of like,

688
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 4: oh this is what's available, Like this could be you know,

689
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 4: it is.

690
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 2: A new standard.

691
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like disrupting in an entire ecosystem.

692
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 1: Right Yeah. So yeah, one of the things they objected

693
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 1: to was just her singing a song too seductively in

694
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:20,359
Speaker 1: this movie Niagara, that is apparently one of her one

695
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 1: of her better movies. So to your point about just

696
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 1: like what was happening sexually at this time between gentlemen

697
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 1: prefer blondes and the seven year it the Kinsey Report

698
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 1: on Female Sexuality drop and revealed things that apparently like

699
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:38,439
Speaker 1: came as a huge shock to Americans at the time

700
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 1: that like half of women were not virgins at marriage,

701
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:45,479
Speaker 1: a quarter are like having affairs, and like many of them,

702
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 1: this is this is weird. They're like, apparently women are

703
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:50,800
Speaker 1: enjoying sex.

704
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:53,360
Speaker 4: We must in this.

705
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 1: People were furious and they got mad at Kinsey and

706
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 1: they also like basically blamed marilynmm because they were like, see,

707
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 1: she's channeling this thing that it kind of reminds like

708
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 1: in the Einstein episode. We talked about how he theorized

709
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 1: this black hole at the center of the universe and

710
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 1: then years later scientific instruments were able to actually observe it.

711
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 1: But like his was basically his math, like decades before

712
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 1: the scientific observation was able to be there, and it

713
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:25,760
Speaker 1: was like the beginning of her career. She's like channeling

714
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 1: this thing and then the research comes out and is like, yeah,

715
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,919
Speaker 1: that's exactly right, like people, this is what people want.

716
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:37,479
Speaker 4: And she only could have known what was to come

717
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 4: about the just ubiquitous porn at any second, everywhere, at

718
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 4: all times, right, But.

719
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 1: The av club about her performance in Gentlemen Preferred Blondes

720
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 1: notes that the joke of the song is that Monro

721
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 1: values diamonds over the subservient men. She's clearly in on

722
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 1: that joke, and the movie is ultimately a celebration of

723
00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 1: female ingenuity and solidarity. Monroe's dumb blonde character was clearly

724
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 1: the creation of a very savvy, intellectual performer, which I

725
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:09,719
Speaker 1: guess seems obvious, but like at the time they're just like,

726
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 1: she's she's the dumb blonde on on screen, and I

727
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 1: think she you know, she also played that in public.

728
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 1: She said the act of like posing for photographs in

729
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: the camera would make her horny, which like everybody just

730
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:30,879
Speaker 1: took it face value, but then you know, genius. Yeah,

731
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 1: she's just like.

732
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's making her job that is very difficult that

733
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,800
Speaker 4: she scrupulously studies and is so hard on herself about

734
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:41,280
Speaker 4: like acting. Yeah, it's like she's faking an orgasm.

735
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,799
Speaker 1: Basically, she's faking an orgasm for She's basically like you,

736
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 1: the film viewer, and the person who's looking at you,

737
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:50,320
Speaker 1: I'm actually horny for you.

738
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,800
Speaker 2: Like essentially, oh, you're right, like I'm actually so horny.

739
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 2: Like when I took that picture. You're right, yeah, exactly the.

740
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:02,760
Speaker 1: Like I was stressed. Remind there's this poor hey Luis

741
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 1: bourgeous poem about Shakespeare called Everything and Nothing, where his

742
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 1: theory of like who Shakespeare was, and like what drove

743
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 1: him is that, to quote the poem, there was no

744
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 1: one inside him, nothing but a trace of chill, a

745
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 1: dream dreamt by no one else. And then like he

746
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:20,360
Speaker 1: becomes an actor because quote he had become instinctively adept

747
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 1: at pretending to be somebody so that no one would

748
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 1: suspect he was in fact nobody. In London, he discovered

749
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 1: the profession for which he was destined, that of the

750
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:30,799
Speaker 1: actor who stands on a stage and pretends to be

751
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 1: someone else in front of a group of people who

752
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 1: pretend to take him for that person. And there's just

753
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 1: like tons of I just love that theory of like

754
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 1: Shakespeare and like you know, why people create art, and

755
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: like how interesting and different like the internal interiority of

756
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 1: like different artists might be than we expect. There are

757
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:58,959
Speaker 1: so many quotes from her throughout her biography where she's

758
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,800
Speaker 1: basically saying, Zach that, like she says, I always felt

759
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 1: like I was a nobody and the only way for

760
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 1: me to be somebody was to be well somebody else,

761
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 1: which is probably why I wanted to act. So it's like,

762
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 1: I don't know, people are like psychoanalyzing her and being like, well,

763
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 1: she had this personality disorder, this psychiatric disorder. It's like

764
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 1: I don't know, like when when somebody theorizes about Shakespeare,

765
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 1: it's just like a cool It's just like, wow, that

766
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 1: what a cool idea about a cool artist, right? I do?

767
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 1: I do feel like I don't know a lot of

768
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 1: artists might be you know, empty on the inside and

769
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 1: creating their art to give themselves meaning, Like that's kind

770
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:40,879
Speaker 1: of cool.

771
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 4: Well, also, I think artists do the work of being

772
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:51,720
Speaker 4: honest about things that hold up a mirror for everyone

773
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 4: else to experience their own pathos or whatever. But she

774
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 4: had so much trauma, and then you know, she's like

775
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 4: the equivalent of fame of what a pop star is today,

776
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 4: Like the most famous pops are like a Justin Bieber

777
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 4: or a Taylor Swift or whatever, that type of level

778
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:13,760
Speaker 4: of fame. I find it almost impossible when you become

779
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 4: an industry like that that's so massive and you know,

780
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 4: a very solidified idea of what people perceive you to be,

781
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 4: which you know, no matter what scale it is a

782
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 4: small or incredibly large, no one really knows the interior

783
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 4: of you. And I think that's just a very lonely

784
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 4: life when it gets to be such a magnitude, because

785
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:43,240
Speaker 4: there's no way that you're not misunderstood by a large

786
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,359
Speaker 4: amount of people at all times. So of course it's

787
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 4: going to impact your mental health. Like, yeah, I don't

788
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 4: know how anyone with that level of fame stays like

789
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 4: well to yourself anymore.

790
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 5: No, Yeah, you cease to be a person, and you

791
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 5: become an infinite number become an infinite number of things

792
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 5: to millions of people.

793
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 2: And yeah, and also you have no idea for what

794
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 2: reason anyone is interacting with you, Yeah, anymore?

795
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 1: And and multiple like her husbands like buy into that,

796
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:16,840
Speaker 1: Like Joe Demaggio first saw her in a photograph of

797
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 1: her wearing like a baseball jersey and was like that,

798
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:24,799
Speaker 1: that's that's how that's the first way he interacted with her.

799
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 1: And he was familiar with the image of this like

800
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 1: childlike no interest in independence woman. And then you know

801
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 1: she would marry Demaggio or Arthur Miller and then they'd

802
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:41,239
Speaker 1: be like insulted when she would be like, I got

803
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:43,319
Speaker 1: to put my career first because I'm like the most

804
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 1: famous person on the planet and this is I'm building

805
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 1: something here, And then I think she would be shocked

806
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 1: and disappointed that they like actually couldn't deal with that,

807
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:52,800
Speaker 1: right you know?

808
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that still very very very much exists today, Like,

809
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 4: oh yeah, well, people are are extremely attracted to like

810
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 4: a sparkly woman or man, but more so women and

811
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 4: all that comes with like the star power and energy

812
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:15,839
Speaker 4: and wattage of what makes them that person. But then

813
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 4: the reality of what it means to sort of live

814
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 4: in that shadow or coexist with that level of stardom

815
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,799
Speaker 4: is like not sustainable for a lot of people's like

816
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:26,840
Speaker 4: hearts and egos.

817
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:31,919
Speaker 1: Yeah. So this is when she marries Joe DiMaggio. They

818
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 1: are only married for nine months. He is abusive. I

819
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 1: do just need to read this anecdote from the Spotal

820
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 1: biography about Joe Demagio and like what he was like

821
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 1: at that time. He just like watched TV a lot

822
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,399
Speaker 1: and was just thiss, like really boring person, like hung

823
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 1: out at gentlemen's clubs. But from the Spotal biography, before

824
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 1: they met, he was hanging around gentlemen's Clubs and best

825
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 1: Buddies with a guy named George Solitaire. George Solitaire grew

826
00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 1: up in Brownsville and then moved to Bronxville. Claims to

827
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:04,080
Speaker 1: be the guy who invented calling boring things Dolesville and

828
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: divorces Splitsville.

829
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 4: I love that you just called Joe Dimaccio boring. That's

830
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 4: so funny.

831
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,919
Speaker 1: That was That was Her initial response was like, holy ship,

832
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:19,720
Speaker 1: this guy's so fucking boring.

833
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 2: I'm hanging out with George Solitaire.

834
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:26,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, George Solitaire, such a fucking Tim Robinson character.

835
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 3: Alf own of a name like the Loneliest Mother for

836
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 3: her too, because you said a repulsive loser.

837
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 1: Claim to fame, I invented calling boring things Dolesville and

838
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 1: then and then it's like, I think my the story

839
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 1: of my authorship of those phrases comes from growing up

840
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 1: in Brownsville and Bronxville and having.

841
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:51,239
Speaker 2: My god Dolesville in Splitsville. Yeah, that's how I kind

842
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:53,840
Speaker 2: of came up with it anyway. Emotions.

843
00:47:54,680 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, George Solitaire, So George South did get over here.

844
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 1: Why we're solid ditch.

845
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 2: I thought you're gonna say he created and invented the

846
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 2: game Solitaire. Nope, you're about to go to Dolesville. Yeah,

847
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:16,280
Speaker 2: that's that's so funny.

848
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 3: When I was like, oh, George, Solitaire didn't invent so

849
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:22,320
Speaker 3: he invented the phrase Splitsville and Dolesville.

850
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 1: Okay, and we you I saw. I'm gonna cite him

851
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:28,239
Speaker 1: from now on every time I say, hey, daddy, Owe,

852
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:29,400
Speaker 1: this place is Dolesville.

853
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 2: Let's get out of here, shout out to my boy George.

854
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 1: This is one the seven year itch came out, which

855
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:38,880
Speaker 1: is the one with the famous photograph of hers or

856
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:41,720
Speaker 1: her dress being blown up by a subway grate, which

857
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 1: I watched the first half of this movie. It sucks

858
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 1: so but it like the premise that she's great, But

859
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 1: the entire premise is like a middle aged man's wife

860
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 1: and kid leave town in the summertime and he wrestles

861
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:00,400
Speaker 1: with the fact that he desperately wants to fuck his

862
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 1: neighbor who's like wildly out of his league. And that's

863
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 1: the entire plot, is that this seven y Yeah, well,

864
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:11,239
Speaker 1: it's like when when you've been married for seven years. Yeah, yeah,

865
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 1: that's when a fella's eyes starts to wander, if you

866
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. But Uh, it's yeah, it's wild.

867
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:20,720
Speaker 1: Like it's a lot of like him talking to himself

868
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 1: and be like, oh George, oh buddy, you're a good man.

869
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:25,919
Speaker 2: What'll they say?

870
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, So the photo shoot, like the one that everybody

871
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 1: has photographs of of where her skirt is being blown

872
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:36,360
Speaker 1: up was from. They said that they like were trying

873
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:39,799
Speaker 1: to film the movie scene on location in New York,

874
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 1: but I think they basically knew that this would be

875
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:45,759
Speaker 1: an amazing publicity stunt. Five thousand people showed up and

876
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 1: it was this like wild, crowded scene to the point

877
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 1: that they like couldn't use any of the footage because

878
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 1: everyone was just screeching at the top of their lungs.

879
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:58,359
Speaker 1: I talked about the movie Saturday Night, where like they

880
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 1: basically ram a bunch of like SNL lore into like

881
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:05,759
Speaker 1: one night. They're like, yeah, all of this happened on

882
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 1: the first night of the filming of Saturday Night Live

883
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:13,360
Speaker 1: Going Live, and there are like some weird moments in

884
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:16,040
Speaker 1: this where like a bunch of different things happen. And

885
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:19,320
Speaker 1: that scene where her skirts being blown up is also

886
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 1: what caused her and Demaggio's divorce because he was so

887
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 1: like Walter Winshell brought him because he knew that it was.

888
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 1: He's like a gossip columnist at the time, and he

889
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 1: like brought him to the set and Demaggio shouted, that's it,

890
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 1: I've had it and then stormed off, which is just

891
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 1: such a funny, old timey guy thing to say. And

892
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:48,720
Speaker 1: then they were divorced like weeks later Wits Bill because

893
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 1: Joe DiMaggio turns out a little bit Dolesville.

894
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 3: You say, George, you're better off Joe that Marilyn was

895
00:50:58,320 --> 00:50:59,840
Speaker 3: Dolesville to the max.

896
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I got that from Brownsville. You can use it.

897
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 1: But again, incredibly iconic moment. Some people have said it's

898
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:11,840
Speaker 1: the most iconic shot in film, even though it's not

899
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:15,319
Speaker 1: in the film. The dress went for five point six

900
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 1: million dollars in twenty eleven.

901
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 4: That's crazy.

902
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 1: Yeah.

903
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 2: And then Kim kardash you wear that.

904
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 4: Dress, she wore the diamond, she wore the crystal one.

905
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 1: That's jf Which that's another kind of weird collapsible moment

906
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 1: or like everything kind of happening on top of each other.

907
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 1: I didn't realize the JFK moment happened like two months

908
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:41,240
Speaker 1: before she died, Like yeah, it was like really soon before,

909
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 1: which is I guess where some of the suspicion comes from.

910
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 1: But yeah, she starts studying under the Strasburg Lee Strasberg,

911
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 1: who's like the founder of the Actors Studio and the

912
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 1: founder of method acting. And I think a lot of

913
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 1: people treat her working with them as like an incongruity

914
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:01,439
Speaker 1: because it's like, this woman plays ditzy blonde is trying

915
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:05,920
Speaker 1: to be, you know, this method actor. But again to

916
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:10,359
Speaker 1: the point about her being a really great actor. There's

917
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 1: this cool anecdote from one of her later films called

918
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 1: I Think The Duke and the Showgirl or The Prince

919
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:21,960
Speaker 1: and the Showgirl or something. She's co starring with Sir

920
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 1: Laurence Olivier, who is also directing her in this movie,

921
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:29,719
Speaker 1: and he has this famous quote when he's working with

922
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:32,960
Speaker 1: Dustin Hoffman on Marathon Man and Dustin Hoffman is, I

923
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:35,680
Speaker 1: don't know, like running marathons to prepare for the role,

924
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 1: and Olivier is like, have you tried acting, my dear boy,

925
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 1: like instead of like doing the method thing where you

926
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 1: like have to inhabit the life of the character. He's

927
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:46,799
Speaker 1: just like, that's all stupid. What are you doing? And

928
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:49,600
Speaker 1: he was like a total asshole to Marilyn on set

929
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:51,879
Speaker 1: and was like, you just need to be pretty? Would

930
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 1: you stop with this shit. He's like widely regarded as

931
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 1: the greatest, you know, British actor at the time, so

932
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:01,359
Speaker 1: he doesn't have time for her bullshit on the set

933
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 1: of this. He thinks she sucks during the make of

934
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 1: the movie. Later puts it on for friends after the

935
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 1: fact and is like, I thought i'd like have a

936
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 1: good laugh at how shit the movie is, and like

937
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 1: we'd laugh at her performance. And you know, he had

938
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 1: directed it, so he thought he knew like what he

939
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:19,440
Speaker 1: was about to see. But you know, when you're watching

940
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:22,400
Speaker 1: something with different people, you can maybe sometimes see it

941
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:24,400
Speaker 1: again with fresh eyes, and like by the end of

942
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 1: the screening, he's like, oh, she's by far the best

943
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:29,799
Speaker 1: person in that movie, and like has like gone on

944
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 1: the record being like she fucking acted me off them

945
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:36,560
Speaker 1: off the screen, but like, yeah, she gave him notes

946
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 1: on shots and was like you should like paste this up.

947
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:42,239
Speaker 1: It's supposed to be a comedy and it's like very

948
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 1: plotting and he just like didn't listen to that and

949
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 1: was like, well, should you just need to be pretty?

950
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 1: But she just she just had that thing that great

951
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:53,279
Speaker 1: film actors have where you see them on set doing

952
00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:55,640
Speaker 1: a thing and you're like, what the fuck is that,

953
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:59,760
Speaker 1: and then it's just magic on film. How many films

954
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 1: she in I don't know the count, but.

955
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 3: Was it did she have like a long run, because

956
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:08,360
Speaker 3: I my percept like, was it this like all happening

957
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 3: within a seven year span?

958
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:12,200
Speaker 2: Less?

959
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:16,400
Speaker 1: More so this I think her early film work was

960
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 1: like early fifties and she died in the early sixties.

961
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:22,239
Speaker 1: So like the second year itch is fifty five and

962
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:25,440
Speaker 1: she does in the early sixties, so okay, you know,

963
00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:27,839
Speaker 1: it's like she takes off and then there's like a

964
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:31,120
Speaker 1: six seven year run. Right, she married Demagio. I'm fifty two,

965
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:34,160
Speaker 1: so she's already like very famous. Then she starts appearing

966
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:37,279
Speaker 1: in movies, and like those movies do incredibly well, even

967
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:40,399
Speaker 1: though some of them are just about a rizzless guy

968
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:43,360
Speaker 1: being like, god, she's hot for like an hour and

969
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:45,920
Speaker 1: a half. But yeah, she's in a bunch of movies,

970
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:49,799
Speaker 1: and like a lot of her performances towards the end

971
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 1: of her career are really like now critically acclaimed, whereas

972
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:56,120
Speaker 1: they like weren't necessarily at the time, but I do

973
00:54:56,160 --> 00:55:01,440
Speaker 1: think there's something like kind of timeless that she is

974
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:05,520
Speaker 1: kind of connecting with that you know, people weren't able

975
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:07,279
Speaker 1: to appreciate at the time, but now you look at

976
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 1: a fucking Laurence Olivier performance and it's like, why is

977
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:14,000
Speaker 1: he acting like that? Yeah, and you look at her

978
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:16,479
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, there goes the most beautiful person

979
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 1: I've ever seen on camera, just completely popping off. And

980
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 1: also she looks like she could exist now. You know.

981
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:26,920
Speaker 1: She also married Arthur Miller, which is how she gets

982
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:30,480
Speaker 1: the attention of the FBI because Arthur Miller wrote The Crucible,

983
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 1: which the FBI was like, they brought him before the

984
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:37,879
Speaker 1: House on American Committee and he wouldn't name names. And

985
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:39,960
Speaker 1: that was also when he was like, and I'm marrying

986
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 1: Marilyn Monroe. And she stuck by him during all this

987
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:48,440
Speaker 1: even though she was being So there's another like kind

988
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:51,239
Speaker 1: of in line with the story about her mom and

989
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 1: the dead husband coming back from the dead. Towards the

990
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:56,319
Speaker 1: end of her life, therapist who worked with her were like,

991
00:55:56,400 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 1: she potentially displaying signs of having like schizophrenic tendencies like

992
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:06,040
Speaker 1: her mom did, and that there are like some details

993
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 1: that make it seem like her mom when she was

994
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:12,239
Speaker 1: committed refused to eat thinking the hospital was trying to

995
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 1: poison her, and marylyn mom road toward the end of

996
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:17,360
Speaker 1: her life was like refusing to eat takeout and saying

997
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:19,600
Speaker 1: she thought that like everybody was trying to poison her.

998
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:23,040
Speaker 1: And Joe Demaggio was like, there, I just eat the

999
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:25,560
Speaker 1: food like we're good, and she was like, well, Joe,

1000
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 1: they're not trying to poison you, are they. Hah.

1001
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:34,360
Speaker 4: She probably with what a scandal she was at the time,

1002
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:37,279
Speaker 4: I'm sure she got like death threats and freaky shit.

1003
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:38,080
Speaker 1: Yeah all the time.

1004
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:40,680
Speaker 4: Oh all, So back then it was just like the

1005
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:45,080
Speaker 4: Yellow Pages, like you like, I think that her estate

1006
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:49,120
Speaker 4: in Brentwood was like recently just sold, Like you could

1007
00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:52,880
Speaker 4: just walk up to someone's house, like everyone's house was listed,

1008
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:56,880
Speaker 4: like where everyone lived, you know. Bizarre.

1009
00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, she couldn't get away from the cameras, like she

1010
00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:03,120
Speaker 1: was there just pop ROSSI following her everywhere. But around

1011
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:05,400
Speaker 1: this time, when she's married Arthur Miller and living in

1012
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:08,640
Speaker 1: New York, there's an anecdote where she like meets up

1013
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:11,319
Speaker 1: a friend and she's like, I'm being followed and they're like, yeah,

1014
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:13,239
Speaker 1: of course you are like the most famous. And she's like, no,

1015
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 1: by the FBI, and they're like, okay, fuck, she's lost it.

1016
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 1: And she was being followed by the FBI. She was like,

1017
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:23,360
Speaker 1: I've learned how to like lose them, and like she

1018
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:25,280
Speaker 1: was talking about what she would do to like get

1019
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:30,200
Speaker 1: them off her tail. And it's true, but everybody, of course,

1020
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:32,920
Speaker 1: that's like an in city, Like I feel like a

1021
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:38,160
Speaker 1: lot of our twentieth century icons are followed by the FBI,

1022
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:40,120
Speaker 1: and it's just like such a mind fuck.

1023
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:43,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, you're like I know this is happening, but

1024
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 4: no one believes me because they sound like a psychopath.

1025
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:47,840
Speaker 4: But then back then it was like what was it

1026
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:49,920
Speaker 4: the Red Red Scare?

1027
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, all.

1028
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:54,480
Speaker 4: The blacklisted people and if you all those people were

1029
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:55,680
Speaker 4: being followed.

1030
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:59,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she was like hung out with leftist intellectuals

1031
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:04,960
Speaker 1: like those were her politics. She you know, once intervened

1032
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:08,600
Speaker 1: on behalf of El Fitzgerald, who was like, yes, not

1033
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 1: able to check into a hotel or like get booked

1034
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:17,680
Speaker 1: at a club because it was America and raising.

1035
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:19,919
Speaker 4: Her and she like went and she's like all good

1036
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:22,560
Speaker 4: with you. And she walked in and was like you

1037
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:24,920
Speaker 4: need to put her on that stage. Yeah, and I

1038
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:27,400
Speaker 4: was like, go bitch, yes, yeah.

1039
00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 1: Which made her very dangerous. To the FBI. They were like, no,

1040
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:34,160
Speaker 1: we don't that's probably not as dangerous as They probably

1041
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:38,840
Speaker 1: underestimated her too, but they did tail her and eventually

1042
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:40,960
Speaker 1: they were like, God, damn it. She hasn't met with

1043
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:45,400
Speaker 1: any Communist officials. What is going on here? But to

1044
00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 1: your question about her film career, so towards the end,

1045
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:52,280
Speaker 1: she appears in Some Like It Hot, which I did not.

1046
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 1: Have you guys seen Some Like It Hot?

1047
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 2: Nope, I've seen clips of it.

1048
00:58:57,680 --> 00:58:58,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1049
00:58:58,240 --> 00:58:58,479
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1050
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:01,720
Speaker 1: It's like a comedy where her men dress up as

1051
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:06,960
Speaker 1: women and it's that's played for laughs. I think, yeah,

1052
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:10,200
Speaker 1: long Yo, Thanks for everything, Julie Numar.

1053
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:13,760
Speaker 3: I just remember Like It Grumpy Old Men when it

1054
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:16,280
Speaker 3: came out and my mom was like, Jack Lemon is

1055
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:18,360
Speaker 3: in Some Like It Hot, and I'm like, I don't

1056
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:20,520
Speaker 3: know what that is. I only know that this is

1057
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:22,440
Speaker 3: the guy from Grumpy Old Men. I don't know if

1058
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:25,440
Speaker 3: he has a career before this film, but that project

1059
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:29,200
Speaker 3: was built around her. She was the first to be cast.

1060
00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 3: It was her return to movies after some health issues,

1061
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:38,720
Speaker 3: including a miscarriage and some barbiturate dependency. So she took

1062
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:41,000
Speaker 3: like a two year break, came back with Some Like

1063
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:43,520
Speaker 3: It Hot, and it's been rated as like the best

1064
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:46,480
Speaker 3: filmed comedy you know, brilliance.

1065
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:49,080
Speaker 4: I need to go jeez, I need to watch these

1066
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 4: I need to watch a few movies. I haven't seen

1067
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 4: her movies.

1068
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:54,760
Speaker 2: I mean, I love the guy from Grumpy Old Men, So.

1069
00:59:55,360 --> 01:00:00,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, she Producer Victor says, it's not that DVH. Just

1070
01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 1: on the subject of like her being witty, there's this

1071
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:07,720
Speaker 1: one anecdote that I didn't see it read anywhere as

1072
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:13,240
Speaker 1: her being witty, but so Joan Crawford, another movie star

1073
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 1: at the time, basically like called her a slut in

1074
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:18,920
Speaker 1: the media as she was rising up, and like Marilyn

1075
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:21,880
Speaker 1: Monroe would never like she was always complimentary about like

1076
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:26,200
Speaker 1: all of her exes, everybody she had relationships with, and

1077
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:31,120
Speaker 1: so on. The Joan Crawford one, though, she like went

1078
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:33,200
Speaker 1: out of her way to pray. She was like, Oh,

1079
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:36,280
Speaker 1: I don't like, that's so crazy that she's mad at me.

1080
01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:39,480
Speaker 1: I've like always admired her and especially like what a

1081
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:42,280
Speaker 1: good mother she is. I hear she's like the best mother,

1082
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:46,640
Speaker 1: and like Joan Crawford like turns out like she's the

1083
01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:50,640
Speaker 1: subject of Mommy Dearest, So people were just like taking

1084
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:52,680
Speaker 1: it at face value. But I could see it being

1085
01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:56,160
Speaker 1: her like knowing some dirt about her family and just

1086
01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:58,560
Speaker 1: being like, I just hear she's such a good mom,

1087
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:00,840
Speaker 1: and like I've always wanted to just to be like

1088
01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:04,160
Speaker 1: such a that's such a clear woman.

1089
01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:09,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what they call in wrapped now, sneak this, yees.

1090
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:11,680
Speaker 1: Sneak this. I feel like she was sneak this sing.

1091
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:14,800
Speaker 1: But like even even like her modern like one of

1092
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:17,720
Speaker 1: her more modern biographies, was still like it's kind of

1093
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:20,000
Speaker 1: a irony that she went out of her way to

1094
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:22,480
Speaker 1: talk about what a good mother she was because Joan Crawford,

1095
01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:25,080
Speaker 1: of course, turned out to be a complete fucking monster.

1096
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:28,520
Speaker 1: I'm like, you're like, wasn't an accident irony at all? Yeah.

1097
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:32,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, Crawford's eyes are so fucking scary. Yeah, you know

1098
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:37,240
Speaker 4: there's those eyes like reveal reveal.

1099
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:42,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's the JFKN Sinatra stuff where I like, based

1100
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:48,800
Speaker 1: on most reporting, it seems like she had like one

1101
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:54,040
Speaker 1: encounter maybe with JFK. He was she was like summoned

1102
01:01:54,040 --> 01:01:57,000
Speaker 1: to Bing Crosby's house. They hung out for like fifteen

1103
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:59,480
Speaker 1: minutes head sex and then he spent the rest of

1104
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:03,360
Speaker 1: the time complaining about how bad his back hurt. The men,

1105
01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:06,000
Speaker 1: like over and over and over again. The men and

1106
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:09,360
Speaker 1: these stories are so pathetic to the point that like

1107
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:11,920
Speaker 1: she called her doctor. This is like one of the

1108
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:15,120
Speaker 1: ways we have it confirmed that they had an affair,

1109
01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:18,560
Speaker 1: because like she called her doctor, who was like, oh,

1110
01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:21,160
Speaker 1: the vibe was very clear that they had just had sex,

1111
01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:25,360
Speaker 1: and she's like, here, talk to John F. Kennedy. First

1112
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 1: of all, imagine being a doctor and getting that call.

1113
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:29,800
Speaker 1: But yeah, it does feel like a lot of her

1114
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:33,200
Speaker 1: energy towards men was like feeling sorry for them, and

1115
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:35,920
Speaker 1: like she like chases these incredibly accomplished men in the

1116
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:38,160
Speaker 1: hopes that one of them won't be pathetic, and they're

1117
01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:40,760
Speaker 1: all like immediately just like, oh my.

1118
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:46,760
Speaker 3: Back was George solitarire, Jesus, you hurt my back when

1119
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:47,760
Speaker 3: we were doing it.

1120
01:02:48,520 --> 01:02:50,120
Speaker 1: The fuck Wait.

1121
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:52,840
Speaker 4: I didn't realize that she was only thirty six when

1122
01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:54,720
Speaker 4: she died. I thought she was forty six.

1123
01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:59,200
Speaker 1: No, thirty six, yeah wow, And like God really coming

1124
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:02,720
Speaker 1: not not long after some like it hot, which is

1125
01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:04,520
Speaker 1: like her biggest critical.

1126
01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:06,480
Speaker 4: At the Apex.

1127
01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:09,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, she also had an affair around this time with

1128
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:13,560
Speaker 1: Frank Sinatra. He gave her a Maltese puppy that she

1129
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:17,000
Speaker 1: named Moth, which was short for Mafia, because she was like,

1130
01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:20,200
Speaker 1: this guy's hilarious Mafia. She really is.

1131
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:23,040
Speaker 4: She's so she's so funny. I love her.

1132
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:26,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, where'd you name the dog? Mafia? We'll call it

1133
01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:28,680
Speaker 2: Moth though, so people don't really.

1134
01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:31,600
Speaker 4: Tiny little mobster after my mobster boyfriend.

1135
01:03:32,120 --> 01:03:38,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, but there this quote about Frank said because apparently

1136
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:42,040
Speaker 1: Frank was dealing with struggling with ed around this time,

1137
01:03:42,080 --> 01:03:45,640
Speaker 1: and he credited Marilyn Monroe with during it. But just

1138
01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:48,720
Speaker 1: in the same in the same world as George Solitaire,

1139
01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:51,600
Speaker 1: just the way men were at the time. From the

1140
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:55,840
Speaker 1: Tamberelli biography, Actually, Frank had been going through this whole

1141
01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:59,600
Speaker 1: impotency trip at the time, way too much sauce the

1142
01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:02,600
Speaker 1: booze was completely ruining a sex like he's getting too

1143
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:04,760
Speaker 1: old to drink like that, and then expected to also

1144
01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:05,680
Speaker 1: perform in the sack.

1145
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:11,880
Speaker 4: Can you imagine your friend saying that in the press

1146
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:15,800
Speaker 4: trick my boy, my boy can't get it off.

1147
01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:18,200
Speaker 1: He's on an inpotity trick.

1148
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 2: Bro, He's washed. Bro. He can't hit the bottles and

1149
01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:23,680
Speaker 2: the booty in one night.

1150
01:04:23,960 --> 01:04:26,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, And also I love them back then, being like,

1151
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:31,040
Speaker 4: oh yeah, it's just the woman that's the issue. These

1152
01:04:31,120 --> 01:04:32,480
Speaker 4: chicks just aren't hot enough.

1153
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:36,440
Speaker 2: If that was nothing to do with his alcoholism.

1154
01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:41,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, But the stories from that relationship, a lot

1155
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:44,120
Speaker 1: of her relationship, it does feel like she's like kind

1156
01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:46,880
Speaker 1: of playing the role of that she plays on screen,

1157
01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:49,800
Speaker 1: and like also the like of a woman in a

1158
01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:54,320
Speaker 1: modern like porn like that she's just doing what she feels.

1159
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:58,520
Speaker 1: Like these men who she feels very sorry for want

1160
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:01,080
Speaker 1: and she's like good at just like reading that and

1161
01:05:01,160 --> 01:05:05,000
Speaker 1: like doing whatever they want. And this is around the

1162
01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:07,680
Speaker 1: time that she does the Happy Birthday to You performance

1163
01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:10,920
Speaker 1: for JFK, which is, first of all only I first

1164
01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:13,200
Speaker 1: found out about that from Mike Myers doing it in

1165
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:19,760
Speaker 1: Wayne's World, which is much less cool. Yeah, but yeah,

1166
01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:23,400
Speaker 1: this happens like a couple months before she dies. And

1167
01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:26,800
Speaker 1: it's also like apparently it was a surprise to everyone

1168
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 1: that she went that hard, So I think that's probably

1169
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:33,440
Speaker 1: like unconsciously why some people are like that's kind of weird.

1170
01:05:33,640 --> 01:05:37,440
Speaker 1: She like put that out there right before she died,

1171
01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:40,040
Speaker 1: and like this was a person who is having like

1172
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:43,160
Speaker 1: crazy affairs all the time.

1173
01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:48,240
Speaker 4: Did you see this about her IQ now that she

1174
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:51,320
Speaker 4: reportedly I don't know how this is proven or not,

1175
01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:54,880
Speaker 4: so I don't know for a fact if this is true.

1176
01:05:55,080 --> 01:05:59,640
Speaker 4: But apparently they said that she had an IQ of

1177
01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:03,320
Speaker 4: once sixty eight when Einstein's was one sixty. Do you

1178
01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:04,560
Speaker 4: think that's true?

1179
01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:08,240
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean I could definitely. I think

1180
01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:12,080
Speaker 1: she is like a genius in many ways, and it

1181
01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:16,520
Speaker 1: wouldn't surprise me to hear that she because like everything

1182
01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:19,680
Speaker 1: that I found in this research was just like she

1183
01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:23,880
Speaker 1: is playing chess while these guys around her are just

1184
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:27,040
Speaker 1: playing marbles. Yeah, more exactly.

1185
01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:32,960
Speaker 4: And that they retrospectively like think that she had autism

1186
01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:34,160
Speaker 4: spectrum disorder.

1187
01:06:34,240 --> 01:06:38,240
Speaker 1: That was uh yeah, but they just had no concept

1188
01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:40,560
Speaker 1: of what that could be, let alone like in the

1189
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:46,120
Speaker 1: package of Marilyn Monroe. You know. But the JFK Marilyn

1190
01:06:46,160 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 1: affair has become a big deal over the years. The

1191
01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:52,280
Speaker 1: people claim that it was carried out by secret tunnels

1192
01:06:52,280 --> 01:06:56,040
Speaker 1: in New York's Carlisle Hotel, which I do know that

1193
01:06:56,200 --> 01:07:00,240
Speaker 1: he did use tunnels underneath like New York hotels to

1194
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:03,800
Speaker 1: have affairs. I don't know if those included her.

1195
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:06,840
Speaker 4: That is so creepy to meet these ideas, this.

1196
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:09,800
Speaker 1: Perpetual sneaking people in in LA.

1197
01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:12,040
Speaker 4: And tunnels, like there's always the sock up tunnels and

1198
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:13,640
Speaker 4: I know they're real, and it's so scary to me.

1199
01:07:13,720 --> 01:07:14,840
Speaker 4: I think, I don't know why.

1200
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:17,360
Speaker 1: I don't know, so the ones in LA, Like, there

1201
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:19,800
Speaker 1: were also rumors that they dug a tunnel from the

1202
01:07:19,840 --> 01:07:23,280
Speaker 1: Beverly Hilton Hotel to Monroe's house so that she could

1203
01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:26,160
Speaker 1: get there, which people have looked back and that would

1204
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:30,720
Speaker 1: have cost three billion dollars to construct, so probably didn't happen.

1205
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:33,360
Speaker 1: It has like gone down as lore. There's a scene

1206
01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:37,520
Speaker 1: in a white house down where Channing Tatum and Jamie

1207
01:07:37,560 --> 01:07:40,640
Speaker 1: Fox they're like trying to escape the white house. He's like, good,

1208
01:07:40,720 --> 01:07:43,000
Speaker 1: there's a series of tunnels that lead out to the street.

1209
01:07:43,360 --> 01:07:46,320
Speaker 1: JFK used them to sneak Maryland. And he's like, I

1210
01:07:46,320 --> 01:07:48,840
Speaker 1: thought those were a myth. He said, actually they're not.

1211
01:07:49,120 --> 01:07:49,480
Speaker 2: They're not.

1212
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:53,000
Speaker 1: Let's go why as people are attacking you, why would

1213
01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:54,800
Speaker 1: you give that backstory?

1214
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:57,600
Speaker 2: Because it's a movie, babe.

1215
01:07:57,400 --> 01:08:02,040
Speaker 1: All right. So this is when she is found dead

1216
01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:06,320
Speaker 1: in her home August fifth, nineteen sixty two. The Los

1217
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:09,200
Speaker 1: Angeles Police concluded that it was caused by a self

1218
01:08:09,200 --> 01:08:11,840
Speaker 1: administered overdose of sedative drugs and that the mode of

1219
01:08:11,840 --> 01:08:16,680
Speaker 1: death is probable suicide. The suicide rate in Los Angeles

1220
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:25,040
Speaker 1: spikes by like fifty percent in the month after her death. Yes, crazy, Yeah,

1221
01:08:25,120 --> 01:08:29,559
Speaker 1: And then people immediately kind of are like, what happened?

1222
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:31,880
Speaker 1: They don't want to believe it. But then there is

1223
01:08:32,520 --> 01:08:36,840
Speaker 1: this theory of the Kennedy's involvement, and like a lot

1224
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:39,759
Speaker 1: of our conspiracy theories, like you can look to where

1225
01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:44,240
Speaker 1: it was started, and there's there was a nineteen sixty

1226
01:08:44,240 --> 01:08:48,680
Speaker 1: four self published pamphlet, The Strange Death of Marilyn Monroe,

1227
01:08:48,840 --> 01:08:52,599
Speaker 1: which conspicuously came out during an election year when RFK

1228
01:08:52,840 --> 01:08:56,879
Speaker 1: was running for Senate, and it basically it sed Munroe

1229
01:08:57,320 --> 01:09:00,760
Speaker 1: had surrounded herself with communist and communist sympathy, and the

1230
01:09:00,800 --> 01:09:03,160
Speaker 1: person who wrote it is just like a you know,

1231
01:09:03,760 --> 01:09:08,519
Speaker 1: psycho right wing person, Frank A. Cappel. And then one

1232
01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:12,679
Speaker 1: of the books that I read was Marilyn Monroe biography

1233
01:09:12,680 --> 01:09:17,240
Speaker 1: by Donald Spado, and he has this theory about her

1234
01:09:17,320 --> 01:09:23,839
Speaker 1: housekeeper Eunice Murray and her doctor Ralph Greenson that seems

1235
01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:29,240
Speaker 1: like the most likely of the conspiracy theories, so I'm

1236
01:09:29,280 --> 01:09:31,519
Speaker 1: just going to go through some of the details. The

1237
01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:36,160
Speaker 1: official story is that she is talking to Peter Lawford

1238
01:09:36,400 --> 01:09:40,720
Speaker 1: on the phone. She says, say goodbye to Jack sagobye

1239
01:09:40,760 --> 01:09:43,240
Speaker 1: to Pat say goodbye to yourself too, because you're a

1240
01:09:43,320 --> 01:09:47,400
Speaker 1: nice person. And he can tell she's like very you know,

1241
01:09:47,439 --> 01:09:50,439
Speaker 1: out of it and on drugs, and those sound like

1242
01:09:50,520 --> 01:09:52,479
Speaker 1: the last words of someone who's planning to die or

1243
01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:56,400
Speaker 1: knows they're dying. Lawford got that was like, damn, that

1244
01:09:56,479 --> 01:09:59,599
Speaker 1: can't be a good sign. Calls her housekeeper, who calls

1245
01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:04,680
Speaker 1: her doc who the doctor. Actually, Lawford doesn't call the housekeeper.

1246
01:10:04,680 --> 01:10:09,080
Speaker 1: He calls like his person because Lawford is weirdly rfk's

1247
01:10:09,120 --> 01:10:12,120
Speaker 1: brother in law. The last person she's on the phone

1248
01:10:12,120 --> 01:10:14,479
Speaker 1: with is rfk's brother in law, which also is like,

1249
01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:19,320
Speaker 1: that's kind of weird, as bro exactly. But he instead

1250
01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:22,920
Speaker 1: of calling directly the police or anything, he calls like

1251
01:10:24,160 --> 01:10:26,800
Speaker 1: her manager because he's like, I don't this could be

1252
01:10:26,800 --> 01:10:30,839
Speaker 1: bad for the Kennedys if I'm attached to this. Manager

1253
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:35,360
Speaker 1: calls doctor, doctor, calls the housekeeper. Housekeeper is just like

1254
01:10:35,439 --> 01:10:39,240
Speaker 1: she's fine, and this is like when when that call

1255
01:10:39,360 --> 01:10:43,639
Speaker 1: is made, she's in her room dying. So like there

1256
01:10:43,640 --> 01:10:46,160
Speaker 1: there are some things. The official story is just she

1257
01:10:46,400 --> 01:10:49,919
Speaker 1: took too many pills, whether on purpose or by accident

1258
01:10:49,960 --> 01:10:54,080
Speaker 1: and died. And but there's like some really so the

1259
01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:57,120
Speaker 1: weird stuff that's kind of shady is just like the

1260
01:10:57,160 --> 01:11:02,080
Speaker 1: behavior of the like the timeline doesn't make sense of

1261
01:11:02,120 --> 01:11:05,439
Speaker 1: like when she found and not. But I just want

1262
01:11:05,479 --> 01:11:10,439
Speaker 1: to just going through the most famous conspiracy theories. The

1263
01:11:10,479 --> 01:11:14,559
Speaker 1: first one is the Kennedy angle. Joe DiMaggio later said,

1264
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:17,040
Speaker 1: I always knew who killed her, but I didn't want

1265
01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:18,960
Speaker 1: to start a revolution in this country.

1266
01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:26,680
Speaker 4: Okay, So she's apparently called her a psychiatrist and hairdresser

1267
01:11:26,880 --> 01:11:31,760
Speaker 4: and both said that she was in distress about betrayal

1268
01:11:31,800 --> 01:11:34,760
Speaker 4: by men in high places right there.

1269
01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:38,400
Speaker 1: So all of that, there's tons of shit. So like

1270
01:11:38,439 --> 01:11:43,040
Speaker 1: this that theory, there's like it became an entire what

1271
01:11:43,160 --> 01:11:47,600
Speaker 1: once that pamphlet came out, It became a huge industry

1272
01:11:48,280 --> 01:11:52,240
Speaker 1: to like write tell all stories about this stuff, right

1273
01:11:53,000 --> 01:11:55,760
Speaker 1: and I don't know who's Yeah, Like some books say

1274
01:11:55,800 --> 01:11:57,799
Speaker 1: she was calling the White House a lot at that time,

1275
01:11:58,120 --> 01:12:02,240
Speaker 1: and like Kennedy was just like could you stop. She

1276
01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:04,200
Speaker 1: did like to call people late at night.

1277
01:12:04,360 --> 01:12:08,680
Speaker 4: So but she claimed she claimed to the doctor that

1278
01:12:08,880 --> 01:12:12,320
Speaker 4: RFK had visited her her and yelled at her that day.

1279
01:12:12,520 --> 01:12:14,280
Speaker 4: According to the Vanity.

1280
01:12:13,920 --> 01:12:18,720
Speaker 1: Fair right, but he was in San Francisco the whole day,

1281
01:12:19,200 --> 01:12:21,800
Speaker 1: so that probably didn't happen. Like he was at a

1282
01:12:21,840 --> 01:12:26,639
Speaker 1: family people people are like he who was in California, Okay,

1283
01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:29,000
Speaker 1: and it's like, well, he was in San Francisco at

1284
01:12:29,040 --> 01:12:32,639
Speaker 1: a thing with like his whole family, and I don't have.

1285
01:12:32,680 --> 01:12:36,240
Speaker 5: The spatial awareness or critical things. So that's nineteen sixty two,

1286
01:12:36,400 --> 01:12:36,680
Speaker 5: you know.

1287
01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:40,439
Speaker 4: Right, you know what I can't bear like And I

1288
01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:45,080
Speaker 4: know this sounds absolutely insane for two people who host

1289
01:12:45,120 --> 01:12:49,519
Speaker 4: a podcast largely about politics, But I cannot bear that

1290
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:54,000
Speaker 4: like these men JFK and RFK presented as like these

1291
01:12:54,640 --> 01:12:59,559
Speaker 4: wonderful leaders of the country and then did this stuff

1292
01:12:59,640 --> 01:13:05,200
Speaker 4: behind closed doors. Like my autistic brain cannot hold deal

1293
01:13:05,560 --> 01:13:09,360
Speaker 4: both of that. Both of those can be true, Yeah right,

1294
01:13:09,560 --> 01:13:12,840
Speaker 4: I really can't. It's like, yeah, breaks my brain.

1295
01:13:13,320 --> 01:13:17,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. There's definitely a difference between the image that they

1296
01:13:17,120 --> 01:13:19,280
Speaker 1: were projecting and then who they were behind closed doors,

1297
01:13:19,360 --> 01:13:22,280
Speaker 1: especially with groats to how they treated women. But the

1298
01:13:22,320 --> 01:13:26,120
Speaker 1: mysterious detail. Like there's tons of like really mysterious, like

1299
01:13:26,360 --> 01:13:28,840
Speaker 1: people claiming that she wrote letters to Jack and threatened

1300
01:13:28,880 --> 01:13:30,320
Speaker 1: to reveal her secret.

1301
01:13:30,600 --> 01:13:36,320
Speaker 4: Everyone knew the secret, Yeah, everyone knew what the birthday

1302
01:13:36,360 --> 01:13:37,920
Speaker 4: and the whisper in the dress.

1303
01:13:38,280 --> 01:13:39,960
Speaker 1: I think I had a feeling they knew what was

1304
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:43,320
Speaker 1: going on. There's like this famous red diary where she

1305
01:13:43,360 --> 01:13:49,360
Speaker 1: could supposedly like took down sensitive information, but like none

1306
01:13:49,360 --> 01:13:53,479
Speaker 1: of that stuff's corroborated. The one like really weird detail

1307
01:13:54,080 --> 01:13:56,599
Speaker 1: is that there was no pill residue in her system,

1308
01:13:57,600 --> 01:14:01,200
Speaker 1: like in her stomach, which people have pointed to is

1309
01:14:01,240 --> 01:14:03,639
Speaker 1: like weird and would suggest that she was like killed

1310
01:14:03,640 --> 01:14:06,880
Speaker 1: with an injection, but there was no injection point on

1311
01:14:06,880 --> 01:14:10,240
Speaker 1: her body, which would have still been there. I do

1312
01:14:10,320 --> 01:14:12,799
Speaker 1: think it's very weird that the last person she called

1313
01:14:13,400 --> 01:14:16,920
Speaker 1: was Peter Lawford, who was RFK Junior's brother in law.

1314
01:14:17,120 --> 01:14:20,040
Speaker 1: That's like who she was on the phone was when

1315
01:14:20,040 --> 01:14:21,120
Speaker 1: she died, and.

1316
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:24,200
Speaker 4: The empty pill bottles, Like and she's found face down

1317
01:14:24,280 --> 01:14:26,360
Speaker 4: with like the empty pill bottles.

1318
01:14:26,160 --> 01:14:28,519
Speaker 1: And then there's no pills in her stomach, yeah, and.

1319
01:14:28,439 --> 01:14:31,479
Speaker 4: Then the phone is in her hand, you know.

1320
01:14:32,040 --> 01:14:35,639
Speaker 1: Yeah. The weird thing is that like her I think

1321
01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:40,040
Speaker 1: lawyer is called at midnight and told she's dead, and

1322
01:14:40,200 --> 01:14:42,400
Speaker 1: they don't call the police until four in the morning.

1323
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:46,200
Speaker 1: And when the police show up at four in the morning,

1324
01:14:46,600 --> 01:14:52,120
Speaker 1: her housekeeper is doing laundry, which is fucking weird behavior.

1325
01:14:52,400 --> 01:14:55,200
Speaker 4: What's tampering with the crime scene.

1326
01:14:54,920 --> 01:14:57,880
Speaker 1: Right, And for so there's like a four hour window

1327
01:14:57,880 --> 01:15:01,680
Speaker 1: there where it's like her housekeeper and this guy doctor Greenson,

1328
01:15:02,160 --> 01:15:07,559
Speaker 1: who was like this really controlling psychiatrist who was like

1329
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:11,200
Speaker 1: not letting certain people see her at this time. And

1330
01:15:11,640 --> 01:15:16,160
Speaker 1: there's also reports that at the scene he was heard

1331
01:15:16,400 --> 01:15:18,840
Speaker 1: yelling like damn it. Hyde gave her a prescription I

1332
01:15:18,880 --> 01:15:22,960
Speaker 1: didn't know about. So one theory, like if the scene

1333
01:15:23,080 --> 01:15:25,639
Speaker 1: was staged, which a lot of people thought it looked staged,

1334
01:15:26,439 --> 01:15:30,840
Speaker 1: one theory would be that he like had plans that

1335
01:15:30,960 --> 01:15:35,120
Speaker 1: night and told the housekeeper to give her like a

1336
01:15:35,840 --> 01:15:40,519
Speaker 1: enema of this medication that he had given her before,

1337
01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:43,519
Speaker 1: and that's what gave her the fatal overdose, which is

1338
01:15:43,520 --> 01:15:45,760
Speaker 1: why there was no pill residue in her stomach. But

1339
01:15:45,840 --> 01:15:48,679
Speaker 1: then they were like, oh shit, we killed Marilyn Monroe,

1340
01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:51,960
Speaker 1: and so they like created this whole story and it

1341
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:54,760
Speaker 1: was suicide, but it was suicide.

1342
01:15:54,240 --> 01:15:56,400
Speaker 4: Like a Michael Jackson doctor type of thing.

1343
01:15:56,760 --> 01:15:59,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, medical malpractice, huh.

1344
01:15:59,040 --> 01:16:02,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, my Michael Jackson doctor, Elvis doctor. Like that's

1345
01:16:02,439 --> 01:16:05,360
Speaker 1: a thing that just seems to happen over and over

1346
01:16:05,720 --> 01:16:10,479
Speaker 1: with these uh like incredibly famous people. The one thing

1347
01:16:10,520 --> 01:16:14,120
Speaker 1: is that, like, so that's the theory from the Spoto biography,

1348
01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:17,160
Speaker 1: and then like the more recent one, they like have

1349
01:16:17,240 --> 01:16:20,240
Speaker 1: a lot more evidence, a lot more anecdotes of like

1350
01:16:20,320 --> 01:16:23,040
Speaker 1: the fact that she was like really doing a lot

1351
01:16:23,080 --> 01:16:25,000
Speaker 1: of drugs at the time and was also like self

1352
01:16:25,040 --> 01:16:29,280
Speaker 1: administering injections and stuff, and so it could have also

1353
01:16:29,400 --> 01:16:35,000
Speaker 1: been that she just self administered the dose that killed her,

1354
01:16:35,240 --> 01:16:38,479
Speaker 1: whether because she was trying to do that or it

1355
01:16:38,520 --> 01:16:42,439
Speaker 1: was accidental, but she was very like kind of fucked

1356
01:16:42,479 --> 01:16:43,679
Speaker 1: up on drugs towards the gym.

1357
01:16:43,880 --> 01:16:46,960
Speaker 4: Was also a deep shit with endometriosis, which they knew

1358
01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:50,519
Speaker 4: nothing about then. It was growing all over her body.

1359
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:54,280
Speaker 4: She had several miscarriages when she really wanted children so badly,

1360
01:16:54,840 --> 01:16:59,599
Speaker 4: and like not to mention that like all mixed with autism,

1361
01:16:59,680 --> 01:17:03,240
Speaker 4: like the the what endometriosis does. It's so harsh on

1362
01:17:03,280 --> 01:17:06,040
Speaker 4: your buddy, Like scientists are now like that now that

1363
01:17:06,080 --> 01:17:09,040
Speaker 4: they're just starting to do research on it. They're like

1364
01:17:09,320 --> 01:17:12,599
Speaker 4: saying it should be classified as cancer. Is how gnarly

1365
01:17:12,680 --> 01:17:16,200
Speaker 4: it is, yeah, and like that really affects your hormones

1366
01:17:16,320 --> 01:17:20,479
Speaker 4: so intensely. It is like an all consuming disease, and

1367
01:17:20,640 --> 01:17:23,920
Speaker 4: especially for her, like when she had very bad thin

1368
01:17:25,320 --> 01:17:28,040
Speaker 4: like it's almost impossible to be thin as well when

1369
01:17:28,080 --> 01:17:33,439
Speaker 4: you have endometriosis, because it's you know whatever, and oh

1370
01:17:33,520 --> 01:17:36,080
Speaker 4: my god, Yeah, I think she was like so much pain.

1371
01:17:36,479 --> 01:17:40,240
Speaker 4: She's on, she can't sleep, she's on like diet pills

1372
01:17:40,280 --> 01:17:43,800
Speaker 4: like upers downers, like all this stuff. Like she's involved

1373
01:17:44,240 --> 01:17:46,600
Speaker 4: with like every major.

1374
01:17:46,600 --> 01:17:52,880
Speaker 1: Person in the world exactly, Like yeah, so it's it's

1375
01:17:53,240 --> 01:17:56,120
Speaker 1: kind of impossible to know. I do, my my, if

1376
01:17:56,120 --> 01:17:58,200
Speaker 1: I had to guess, I think the scene was staged

1377
01:17:58,200 --> 01:18:01,080
Speaker 1: by the housekeeper and the doctor either because they didn't

1378
01:18:01,080 --> 01:18:04,040
Speaker 1: want her to look bad. And like I guess the

1379
01:18:04,160 --> 01:18:06,879
Speaker 1: drug that she oded on would cause your body potentially

1380
01:18:06,880 --> 01:18:09,080
Speaker 1: to expel stuff, so that could be why she was

1381
01:18:09,600 --> 01:18:11,479
Speaker 1: like doing the laundry. It was just so that like

1382
01:18:11,520 --> 01:18:14,599
Speaker 1: they didn't find her like covered in shit or whatever.

1383
01:18:14,760 --> 01:18:17,519
Speaker 1: But I think it could also be that they were

1384
01:18:17,560 --> 01:18:20,240
Speaker 1: covering their own ass and like that there was a

1385
01:18:20,280 --> 01:18:24,040
Speaker 1: Walter White breaking bad situation where she died in front

1386
01:18:24,040 --> 01:18:26,559
Speaker 1: of them and they were like fuck were yeah, you know,

1387
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:30,240
Speaker 1: they didn't do enough and were too scared to do anything,

1388
01:18:30,560 --> 01:18:33,080
Speaker 1: and so they then like concocted this story like there's

1389
01:18:33,400 --> 01:18:36,840
Speaker 1: there's a thing where the official narrative is that she

1390
01:18:36,880 --> 01:18:39,040
Speaker 1: went to check on her and her door was locked,

1391
01:18:39,120 --> 01:18:41,040
Speaker 1: and then she called the doctor to come over and

1392
01:18:41,080 --> 01:18:43,519
Speaker 1: he had to like break a window, but like the

1393
01:18:43,640 --> 01:18:45,960
Speaker 1: door didn't have a lock on it. And also Marilyn

1394
01:18:46,040 --> 01:18:51,120
Speaker 1: Monroe like never locked her door because of her intense fear.

1395
01:18:51,400 --> 01:18:54,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, so can you imagine how insane that is though

1396
01:18:54,160 --> 01:18:55,880
Speaker 4: to be Marilyn Monroe and not lock your door?

1397
01:18:56,040 --> 01:18:58,920
Speaker 1: I know, ye yeah, oh my god.

1398
01:18:59,400 --> 01:19:04,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, they didn't have security back then, right, Like I

1399
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:06,000
Speaker 4: don't know, it just seems like you could just knock

1400
01:19:06,040 --> 01:19:09,360
Speaker 4: on every like someone's door in Hollywood.

1401
01:19:09,680 --> 01:19:14,400
Speaker 1: Right. So the premise of Calendar Girl, the great Jason

1402
01:19:14,439 --> 01:19:18,479
Speaker 1: Priestley movie that nobody fucking remembers. That's that's one weird thing,

1403
01:19:18,520 --> 01:19:21,200
Speaker 1: so real quick. Just like in terms of her overall

1404
01:19:21,240 --> 01:19:24,240
Speaker 1: like legacy, the Warhol painting, like we've talked about how

1405
01:19:24,280 --> 01:19:27,519
Speaker 1: much her dress is sold for the Warhol painting shot

1406
01:19:27,560 --> 01:19:30,479
Speaker 1: Stage Blue Marylyn was auctioned for one hundred and ninety

1407
01:19:30,479 --> 01:19:33,439
Speaker 1: five million dollars in twenty twenty two. If you just

1408
01:19:33,479 --> 01:19:36,840
Speaker 1: like put a dollar figure on her iconography with like

1409
01:19:36,880 --> 01:19:43,800
Speaker 1: Playboy high Art, like Box Office Success two billion, Madonna's iconography,

1410
01:19:44,200 --> 01:19:46,599
Speaker 1: Like I think this Piggy's character is like built out

1411
01:19:46,600 --> 01:19:49,640
Speaker 1: of her, like all the ads that still feature her

1412
01:19:49,720 --> 01:19:55,000
Speaker 1: to this day, Like she's probably number one, you know, so, yeah,

1413
01:19:55,040 --> 01:19:57,040
Speaker 1: they use her in ads, and she was like at

1414
01:19:57,040 --> 01:20:00,120
Speaker 1: the forefront or her estate was at the forefront of

1415
01:20:00,160 --> 01:20:04,559
Speaker 1: like you know, making money off of somebody's brand, you know,

1416
01:20:04,880 --> 01:20:07,680
Speaker 1: Like what's the name of the company that did it?

1417
01:20:08,120 --> 01:20:13,000
Speaker 1: A CMG Worldwide who just specialized in managing the estate

1418
01:20:13,040 --> 01:20:17,200
Speaker 1: of dead celebrities and they just cash in on this.

1419
01:20:17,439 --> 01:20:20,360
Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety six alone, the licensing of Marilyn Monroe's

1420
01:20:20,439 --> 01:20:23,840
Speaker 1: name and image has pulled in over thirty million dollars

1421
01:20:23,840 --> 01:20:26,439
Speaker 1: in revenues. That's just in ninety six, just like a

1422
01:20:26,520 --> 01:20:27,160
Speaker 1: random year.

1423
01:20:27,560 --> 01:20:29,360
Speaker 4: Oh, I was going to say, I was like, that

1424
01:20:29,600 --> 01:20:31,840
Speaker 4: seems unbelievably low, But that's one year.

1425
01:20:31,960 --> 01:20:34,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one year. Yeah. Twenty sixteen, we got a

1426
01:20:34,520 --> 01:20:38,080
Speaker 1: Snicker's commercial that she appeared in where like Willem Dafoe

1427
01:20:38,120 --> 01:20:40,360
Speaker 1: plays her on the set of seven Year Itch.

1428
01:20:40,360 --> 01:20:42,479
Speaker 4: And then like all the and imagine even all the

1429
01:20:42,600 --> 01:20:46,639
Speaker 4: unplaned like that they don't even yeah.

1430
01:20:46,040 --> 01:20:48,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I do think it's interesting that like the

1431
01:20:48,479 --> 01:20:51,200
Speaker 1: one place she doesn't really live on is in like

1432
01:20:51,400 --> 01:20:57,519
Speaker 1: movies about her, Like people keep trying. There's Blonde Arsne Yeah,

1433
01:20:57,760 --> 01:21:00,599
Speaker 1: the Armists. Uh. There there is one called My Week

1434
01:21:00,640 --> 01:21:03,360
Speaker 1: with Marylyn starring Michelle Williams, like who I think is

1435
01:21:03,400 --> 01:21:07,559
Speaker 1: one of the best actors of like her generation. HBO's

1436
01:21:07,560 --> 01:21:11,880
Speaker 1: Norman Gyena Maryland of course, nineteen ninety three's Calendar Girl,

1437
01:21:12,080 --> 01:21:15,400
Speaker 1: where Jason Priestley and Jerry O'Connell drive to la and

1438
01:21:15,439 --> 01:21:19,160
Speaker 1: just stalk Marilyn Monroe. That's the entire They should have

1439
01:21:19,200 --> 01:21:23,160
Speaker 1: just marked it as a horror movie. But I do

1440
01:21:23,200 --> 01:21:26,320
Speaker 1: think that it's just because of that thing she had,

1441
01:21:26,360 --> 01:21:28,000
Speaker 1: like the thing that the guy was like between the

1442
01:21:28,080 --> 01:21:30,760
Speaker 1: lens and the film, Like there's just this magic that

1443
01:21:30,840 --> 01:21:34,120
Speaker 1: she had because of her talent and like how hard

1444
01:21:34,160 --> 01:21:37,479
Speaker 1: she worked at it that like you can't really do

1445
01:21:37,640 --> 01:21:40,920
Speaker 1: her justice by having somebody else play her, right, So

1446
01:21:41,160 --> 01:21:45,479
Speaker 1: like there's just that's the one place that her star

1447
01:21:45,680 --> 01:21:48,080
Speaker 1: is not as bright as like anyone else trying to

1448
01:21:49,080 --> 01:21:52,800
Speaker 1: be her so and I just don't think you can

1449
01:21:52,800 --> 01:21:55,000
Speaker 1: do it because she was so good at what she did.

1450
01:21:55,400 --> 01:21:59,479
Speaker 1: And that's that's it. Love you, Marilyn, Love you, Marilyn,

1451
01:22:00,120 --> 01:22:00,360
Speaker 1: Love you.

1452
01:22:00,439 --> 01:22:05,400
Speaker 2: George Solitaire my favorite side characters.

1453
01:22:05,479 --> 01:22:07,559
Speaker 1: So George Solitaire is great, isn't it.

1454
01:22:07,600 --> 01:22:10,320
Speaker 4: This podcast was the opposite of Dolesville. I'll tell you

1455
01:22:10,360 --> 01:22:14,519
Speaker 4: what riveted start to finish and Jock, you really did

1456
01:22:14,520 --> 01:22:15,719
Speaker 4: an incredible research.

1457
01:22:16,000 --> 01:22:18,160
Speaker 1: Oh, thank you so much. This is what he does.

1458
01:22:18,400 --> 01:22:22,040
Speaker 1: I was reminded multiple times during the researching of her

1459
01:22:22,120 --> 01:22:25,519
Speaker 1: life of the phrase you smoked too tough, you're swag

1460
01:22:25,600 --> 01:22:28,400
Speaker 1: too different, your bitch is too bad, don't kill you.

1461
01:22:28,960 --> 01:22:32,200
Speaker 1: I was like, this is about her, she except she

1462
01:22:32,360 --> 01:22:36,240
Speaker 1: is the bitch that's too bad at this podcast.

1463
01:22:36,280 --> 01:22:38,360
Speaker 4: That is my ship. I can't wait to listen like

1464
01:22:38,479 --> 01:22:41,400
Speaker 4: I love like this is my dream podcast to listen to.

1465
01:22:41,520 --> 01:22:43,040
Speaker 2: Well, we'll have to pick another icon.

1466
01:22:43,720 --> 01:22:47,439
Speaker 4: Yes, I can't wait to listen to this. Not my

1467
01:22:47,600 --> 01:22:50,200
Speaker 4: episode I lived it, I mean the other episode.

1468
01:22:50,280 --> 01:22:52,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I live. How many if we don't we don't like?

1469
01:22:52,800 --> 01:22:54,080
Speaker 1: Is this our sixth seventh?

1470
01:22:54,560 --> 01:22:54,760
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1471
01:22:55,040 --> 01:22:56,000
Speaker 4: Are they out right.

1472
01:22:55,880 --> 01:22:59,639
Speaker 1: Now, Yeah, they're they're out there all right, Blair Sackey.

1473
01:23:00,040 --> 01:23:00,920
Speaker 1: Such a pleasure of having you.

1474
01:23:01,040 --> 01:23:02,840
Speaker 4: I love you, guys. Thank you so much as you

1475
01:23:02,920 --> 01:23:05,040
Speaker 4: for doing that. I love Maryland. Okay, I love you

1476
01:23:05,840 --> 01:23:11,280
Speaker 4: Zichang Iconography Gang. Listen to my podcast and come see

1477
01:23:11,280 --> 01:23:14,680
Speaker 4: me on my show dates I put on my social media.

1478
01:23:14,800 --> 01:23:17,320
Speaker 1: There you go, Miles, thank you for doing it.

1479
01:23:17,600 --> 01:23:19,880
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. As usual, We're.

1480
01:23:19,720 --> 01:23:21,080
Speaker 1: Going to take a quick break, and then I'm going

1481
01:23:21,120 --> 01:23:23,160
Speaker 1: to come back and give you my no no, no

1482
01:23:23,160 --> 01:23:26,880
Speaker 1: no notebook dump where I talked about the stuff, the

1483
01:23:26,920 --> 01:23:29,679
Speaker 1: best stuff that I forgot to tell Blair and Miles.

1484
01:23:42,280 --> 01:23:46,639
Speaker 1: Oh right. That was our Marilyn Monroe episode with blair sake.

1485
01:23:46,960 --> 01:23:50,720
Speaker 1: Thanks to Blair and thanks to JM McNabb for the

1486
01:23:50,760 --> 01:23:54,840
Speaker 1: research help on this one. Here are a few interesting

1487
01:23:54,960 --> 01:23:58,000
Speaker 1: things we didn't get to from our research. That's right,

1488
01:23:58,040 --> 01:24:00,559
Speaker 1: it's time for the no no, no, no oh book.

1489
01:24:00,720 --> 01:24:03,960
Speaker 1: Don't don't do a thing I've come up against in

1490
01:24:03,960 --> 01:24:08,080
Speaker 1: the last two episodes. Actually, Elvis in this one. That's

1491
01:24:08,280 --> 01:24:12,960
Speaker 1: just an interesting portal into how weird history was and

1492
01:24:13,000 --> 01:24:15,599
Speaker 1: just how different the world used to be. Has to

1493
01:24:15,640 --> 01:24:20,840
Speaker 1: do with names and identity. I mentioned that her mom's

1494
01:24:20,880 --> 01:24:24,320
Speaker 1: husband was presumed dead because someone who just happened to

1495
01:24:24,320 --> 01:24:27,680
Speaker 1: have his same name and like fit his general description

1496
01:24:28,120 --> 01:24:31,759
Speaker 1: died in a motorcycle accident in Ohio, like states away.

1497
01:24:32,360 --> 01:24:35,840
Speaker 1: And obviously we talked about her famous name change. That

1498
01:24:36,000 --> 01:24:38,439
Speaker 1: was just one of her name changes. She was born

1499
01:24:38,560 --> 01:24:42,160
Speaker 1: as Norma Jean Mortenson. By the time she was baptized,

1500
01:24:43,000 --> 01:24:47,640
Speaker 1: her mom was going with Norma Jean Baker, and that

1501
01:24:47,760 --> 01:24:51,880
Speaker 1: first last named Mortenson, the Spoto biography points out, was

1502
01:24:51,920 --> 01:24:57,960
Speaker 1: spelled differently at different times by her and her grandparents,

1503
01:24:58,040 --> 01:25:01,719
Speaker 1: just like depending on how they were feeling that day,

1504
01:25:01,960 --> 01:25:05,679
Speaker 1: I guess. And going back to the Elvis episode, apparently

1505
01:25:05,760 --> 01:25:10,120
Speaker 1: a big part of the Elvis wasn't really dead faked

1506
01:25:10,120 --> 01:25:14,680
Speaker 1: his own death conspiracy was that his name was misspelled

1507
01:25:14,840 --> 01:25:19,600
Speaker 1: on his tombstone. His middle name was spelled Aaron a

1508
01:25:19,920 --> 01:25:24,360
Speaker 1: Ron in life, and then Aron to quote the key

1509
01:25:24,400 --> 01:25:27,920
Speaker 1: and peel sketch on his tombstone or vice versa. Who

1510
01:25:27,920 --> 01:25:30,559
Speaker 1: gives a shit? But like you know, according to Elvis

1511
01:25:30,600 --> 01:25:35,160
Speaker 1: conspiracy theorists, that was done as a clue. You know,

1512
01:25:35,640 --> 01:25:39,280
Speaker 1: all right, we faked my death chosen the most embarrassing

1513
01:25:39,320 --> 01:25:41,559
Speaker 1: death possible, by the way, having me die on the

1514
01:25:41,600 --> 01:25:45,760
Speaker 1: toilet for some reason, we've swapped my body with a

1515
01:25:45,800 --> 01:25:50,880
Speaker 1: look alike who we presumably had to murder, then paid

1516
01:25:50,880 --> 01:25:54,240
Speaker 1: off the doctors to make sure nobody will ever know.

1517
01:25:55,600 --> 01:25:59,639
Speaker 1: Just one thing left to do, that's right. The clues

1518
01:26:00,240 --> 01:26:02,720
Speaker 1: to steal a bit from the stand up comedian Nick

1519
01:26:02,800 --> 01:26:06,840
Speaker 1: Mullen talking about nine to eleven conspiracies worth going to

1520
01:26:06,920 --> 01:26:09,920
Speaker 1: check out that YouTube clip. But yeah, it turns out

1521
01:26:10,040 --> 01:26:14,920
Speaker 1: that wasn't a intentionally planted clue by Elvis. There's even

1522
01:26:14,960 --> 01:26:17,160
Speaker 1: a song I think called like the Name on the

1523
01:26:17,200 --> 01:26:20,960
Speaker 1: Stone that was supposedly a song by Elvis being like

1524
01:26:21,000 --> 01:26:23,720
Speaker 1: and that's that's why I put the name misspelled on

1525
01:26:23,840 --> 01:26:28,240
Speaker 1: the stone, was because I wanted you guys to pick

1526
01:26:28,320 --> 01:26:30,760
Speaker 1: up on the fact that I faked my death and

1527
01:26:30,920 --> 01:26:33,960
Speaker 1: did all that stuff. But yeah, it turns out Elvis,

1528
01:26:34,080 --> 01:26:37,599
Speaker 1: like Marilyn Monroe and her ancestors, just spelled his name

1529
01:26:37,640 --> 01:26:42,240
Speaker 1: differently at different times. There's examples of him and his

1530
01:26:42,280 --> 01:26:45,439
Speaker 1: handwriting spelling it with two a's and with one a.

1531
01:26:46,600 --> 01:26:52,559
Speaker 1: And there's just all sorts of interesting historical stories that

1532
01:26:52,640 --> 01:26:57,000
Speaker 1: hopefully we keep intersecting with in these Icon episodes. About

1533
01:26:57,000 --> 01:27:02,439
Speaker 1: people just not having a sing name and using that

1534
01:27:02,600 --> 01:27:04,799
Speaker 1: to their advantage, showing up in a town and claiming

1535
01:27:04,840 --> 01:27:07,719
Speaker 1: to be someone famous, you know, a princess who died,

1536
01:27:08,560 --> 01:27:12,240
Speaker 1: or people just leaving town and starting over with a

1537
01:27:12,280 --> 01:27:15,479
Speaker 1: new name. It's just a different world now. Everything's so

1538
01:27:15,600 --> 01:27:19,960
Speaker 1: particular and standardized. My name has an apostrophe in it,

1539
01:27:20,520 --> 01:27:24,040
Speaker 1: and it ruins my ability to like register for anything

1540
01:27:24,160 --> 01:27:28,240
Speaker 1: or be found in any database, because you know, the

1541
01:27:28,800 --> 01:27:32,559
Speaker 1: operating systems can't deal with apostrophes sometimes, and so I

1542
01:27:32,640 --> 01:27:35,640
Speaker 1: leave it out, and then that just becomes a completely

1543
01:27:35,680 --> 01:27:38,479
Speaker 1: different name when the apostrophe is not there. And I

1544
01:27:39,080 --> 01:27:42,280
Speaker 1: think they had it better. You know, who cares about

1545
01:27:42,320 --> 01:27:45,320
Speaker 1: a little mistaken identity here and there? You get to

1546
01:27:45,840 --> 01:27:49,439
Speaker 1: just live free. You get people coming back from the dead.

1547
01:27:49,760 --> 01:27:52,880
Speaker 1: What's better than that? Another thing. I didn't want to

1548
01:27:52,880 --> 01:27:55,680
Speaker 1: spend too much time focusing on the relationships and all

1549
01:27:55,680 --> 01:27:59,200
Speaker 1: the famous people that Marilyn Monroe slept with, because I

1550
01:27:59,200 --> 01:28:01,960
Speaker 1: feel like that was the stuff I knew coming in,

1551
01:28:02,320 --> 01:28:05,639
Speaker 1: and I feel like most people know about I don't

1552
01:28:05,720 --> 01:28:09,280
Speaker 1: feel like most people realize what a genius she was.

1553
01:28:09,360 --> 01:28:12,920
Speaker 1: But she did have a lot of ill fated relationships,

1554
01:28:13,280 --> 01:28:16,720
Speaker 1: not just with her husbands, but depending on the biographer,

1555
01:28:17,080 --> 01:28:19,960
Speaker 1: she also had a lot of sex. Some suggest she

1556
01:28:20,000 --> 01:28:22,360
Speaker 1: worked as a sex worker for a stretch of her

1557
01:28:22,400 --> 01:28:27,160
Speaker 1: early career, and a lot of biographers and podcasters tend

1558
01:28:27,160 --> 01:28:33,680
Speaker 1: to like psychoanalyze her and say that her solicitous relationship

1559
01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:39,400
Speaker 1: with men was caused by psychiatric pathologies and early abuse,

1560
01:28:39,439 --> 01:28:43,240
Speaker 1: and she was abused early in her life. But I

1561
01:28:43,240 --> 01:28:46,560
Speaker 1: will just say that a lot of how she interacted

1562
01:28:46,560 --> 01:28:51,120
Speaker 1: with men seemed to be having sex with the ones

1563
01:28:51,240 --> 01:28:55,920
Speaker 1: she was interested in, or for forwarding her career, or

1564
01:28:56,160 --> 01:28:59,400
Speaker 1: early in her career for self preservation, And I just

1565
01:28:59,439 --> 01:29:01,640
Speaker 1: feel like it's the sort of thing that if it

1566
01:29:01,720 --> 01:29:04,639
Speaker 1: was a man building his career by having sex with

1567
01:29:04,920 --> 01:29:07,800
Speaker 1: the most beautiful and impressive women in the world, we'd

1568
01:29:07,880 --> 01:29:12,280
Speaker 1: just be like that guy was cool. And the fact

1569
01:29:12,320 --> 01:29:15,040
Speaker 1: that people felt the need for her behavior to come

1570
01:29:15,080 --> 01:29:18,800
Speaker 1: from some deep trauma might be more specific to the

1571
01:29:18,880 --> 01:29:23,880
Speaker 1: era than like something wrong with her. But anyways, we

1572
01:29:23,960 --> 01:29:27,439
Speaker 1: talked about how the conspiracies about rfk's involvement and her

1573
01:29:27,520 --> 01:29:30,360
Speaker 1: death came from a propaganda pamphlet from a right wing

1574
01:29:30,479 --> 01:29:34,120
Speaker 1: ideologue who hated the Kennedys. I always just find it

1575
01:29:34,200 --> 01:29:38,880
Speaker 1: interesting to note how so many of the conspiracies we

1576
01:29:39,000 --> 01:29:45,000
Speaker 1: have today started as purposefully planted propaganda, like the KGB

1577
01:29:45,280 --> 01:29:49,200
Speaker 1: helped create the moon landing conspiracy, helped gas some of

1578
01:29:49,240 --> 01:29:54,519
Speaker 1: the early JFK conspiracy theories. Here we have the other

1579
01:29:54,720 --> 01:30:00,400
Speaker 1: engine of misinformation in the twentieth century and really speeding

1580
01:30:00,479 --> 01:30:02,479
Speaker 1: up in the twenty first century, which is the fascist

1581
01:30:02,560 --> 01:30:06,280
Speaker 1: right wing in America who would spread rumors and they

1582
01:30:06,320 --> 01:30:11,640
Speaker 1: also would actively sabotage and murder people or make them

1583
01:30:11,680 --> 01:30:14,960
Speaker 1: think they were crazy in this case, which just a

1584
01:30:15,000 --> 01:30:17,920
Speaker 1: recurring theme in our icons. Yet another one of our

1585
01:30:18,120 --> 01:30:23,000
Speaker 1: icons who died with a very thick FBI file on her.

1586
01:30:24,000 --> 01:30:27,960
Speaker 1: Russian state media also used her as propaganda inside the

1587
01:30:28,040 --> 01:30:31,160
Speaker 1: USSR at the time of her divorce from Arthur Miller,

1588
01:30:31,320 --> 01:30:37,520
Speaker 1: saying that the most American things are apple pie, gum, baseball,

1589
01:30:37,560 --> 01:30:42,320
Speaker 1: and Marilyn Monroe. Well, she just discarded Arthur Miller after

1590
01:30:42,439 --> 01:30:45,000
Speaker 1: he wrote her a few movies, because I think he

1591
01:30:45,120 --> 01:30:47,960
Speaker 1: was a bit of a hero inside Russia for not

1592
01:30:48,080 --> 01:30:51,400
Speaker 1: being completely hostile to the idea of socialism and being

1593
01:30:51,439 --> 01:30:53,760
Speaker 1: targeted by the Red Scare. I would just say that

1594
01:30:54,000 --> 01:30:57,280
Speaker 1: he might have gotten something out of the deal. Being

1595
01:30:57,360 --> 01:30:59,880
Speaker 1: married to the most beautiful and most famous person on earth.

1596
01:31:00,080 --> 01:31:03,520
Speaker 1: And just as for the husbands, we talked about Demaggio,

1597
01:31:04,280 --> 01:31:07,360
Speaker 1: who was just kind of boring. We just watched TV

1598
01:31:08,280 --> 01:31:11,400
Speaker 1: fish she was just like, God, damn, this is boring.

1599
01:31:12,160 --> 01:31:15,200
Speaker 1: Arthur Miller much cooler, smarter, more impressive figure to me,

1600
01:31:15,960 --> 01:31:19,840
Speaker 1: but he also pulled some of the same bullshit as Demaggio.

1601
01:31:20,439 --> 01:31:23,040
Speaker 1: He announced they were going to get married before he

1602
01:31:23,120 --> 01:31:27,240
Speaker 1: confirmed that with her publicly, and at one point he

1603
01:31:27,280 --> 01:31:30,679
Speaker 1: told the press that she would start making fewer movies,

1604
01:31:30,840 --> 01:31:33,800
Speaker 1: stating she will be my wife. That's a full time job.

1605
01:31:34,439 --> 01:31:38,040
Speaker 1: Imagine marrying the most famous person on the planet and

1606
01:31:38,080 --> 01:31:41,479
Speaker 1: thinking that's how it was going to be. Presumably she

1607
01:31:41,680 --> 01:31:45,280
Speaker 1: was effective at making it look like an accident to everyone,

1608
01:31:45,439 --> 01:31:48,680
Speaker 1: and so I guess they were surprised when it required

1609
01:31:48,920 --> 01:31:51,639
Speaker 1: a tremendous amount of work and that she was not

1610
01:31:51,720 --> 01:31:55,599
Speaker 1: just willing to give that all up to be missus.

1611
01:31:55,720 --> 01:31:59,479
Speaker 1: Arthur Miller, all right, that is going to do it

1612
01:31:59,760 --> 01:32:04,160
Speaker 1: for or Marilyn Monroe probably my favorite one to research

1613
01:32:04,240 --> 01:32:08,320
Speaker 1: thus far. Our next icon goes a completely different direction,

1614
01:32:08,720 --> 01:32:12,679
Speaker 1: particularly with marriage. Mary's one guy who's basically a nobody,

1615
01:32:12,960 --> 01:32:16,840
Speaker 1: and then he's her writer die from day one. One

1616
01:32:16,880 --> 01:32:20,080
Speaker 1: week from today, we'll be dropping our episode about the

1617
01:32:20,479 --> 01:32:25,080
Speaker 1: icon Dolly Parton with guest Lydia Popovich, and you can

1618
01:32:25,240 --> 01:32:29,919
Speaker 1: check back then and many more TDZ episodes in between.

1619
01:32:30,640 --> 01:32:34,720
Speaker 1: All Right, we'll talk to you all then Bite