1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. And 4 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: it is holiday time. It's Christmas time. I mean it 5 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: kind of doesn't matter even what you celebrate or don't celebrate, 6 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: because Christmas is thrust upon everyone, at least here in 7 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: the US. Yeah, it is a juggernaut. Which is kind 8 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: of why we want to sit here and look at 9 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:37,200 Speaker 1: a couple of classic Christmas stories this season and plumb 10 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 1: the depths of Christmas and see if there's a bit 11 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: more to it. So we thought we'd start with Old Scrooge. 12 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 1: We're talking about the eighteen three Charles Dickens classic Christmas Carol. Yes, 13 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: a Christmas Carol, which, if you like me, you've you know, 14 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: you've encountered this story more than just about any other story. 15 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: It's you end up reliving at every Christmas as you 16 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: grow up. Different film adaptations, maybe you have to go 17 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: to a play version of it. Um Like, for my part, 18 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever actually read it, Like I 19 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: have no desire to read it because I've I've I've 20 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:14,319 Speaker 1: suffered through enough of it on the screen. I mean, 21 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: and that's not to say I don't appreciate some of 22 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: the adaptations. I love the musical Scrooge um and and 23 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:22,759 Speaker 1: could easily belt out some tunes from it right now. 24 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: But yeah, that's that's my go to Scrooge by the way. 25 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,960 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's just you. You can't avoid. It's just 26 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: nailed into your head, it is, And uh so probably 27 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 1: for for a lot of you guys out there listening 28 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: to this, this is all gonna sound familiar, but we're 29 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:41,960 Speaker 1: gonna go through it anyway. We're talking about a miserly 30 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: old geezer named Ebeneezer Scrooge, and he is visited by 31 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: myriad ghosts on the eve of Christmas, including his dear 32 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: friend who's now a ghost, Jacob Marley, and then the 33 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: ghost of past present in the future. And these visitations 34 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: cost Scrooge to rethink his relationship and behavior to those 35 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: around him, particularly his employee Bob Cratchet, and his family, 36 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: including his infirmed son Tiny Tim. Yes, God blesses everyone's 37 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:16,239 Speaker 1: it's the catchphrase that resonates with everyone. Um it's uh yeah, 38 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:21,079 Speaker 1: it's like you said, it's a story of spirits of time. Travel. Uh, 39 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: you could you could say that this is an early 40 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,919 Speaker 1: time travel story. I mean, you wouldn't be wrong, because 41 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:29,919 Speaker 1: each of these traumatic spirits takes Scrooge, and the first 42 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: one says, hey, let me take you into the past. 43 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: This is how screwed up your past is. And then 44 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: the ghost of Christmas Present says, hey, let me take 45 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: you out into the present. This is how screwed up 46 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: your life is right now. And then the ghost of 47 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 1: Christmas Future says, We'll just wait till what I have 48 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: to show you. This is how bad it's gonna get. 49 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 1: And uh, and of course the the ghost of Christmas 50 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 1: Future is also generally wrapped up in a personification of 51 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:54,519 Speaker 1: death as well, because that's the icing on the cake. 52 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 1: This is how bad the future is gonna get. Oh, 53 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: and you're going to die and nobody's gonna care. You 54 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: know what. This is such a bleak story when you 55 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: get down to it. Yes, But you know what, I 56 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: think all Christmas stories should be bleak because even when 57 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: you when you strip away all the consumerism and the 58 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: nonsense and the and the fake happiness, like any winter 59 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: like Deep Winter Festival is ultimately about hey, everything's getting colder. 60 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: We can't grow food anymore. Things are dying. Is the 61 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: Is the sun going to come back? Is the spring 62 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 1: gonna come back? Are we going to survive? And it's 63 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: about finding some reasons to survive and the pit of despair, 64 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: like even the Christmas story with the Birth of Jesus 65 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: and all. I mean, you could say that that all 66 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: boils down to the idea off you have this dark 67 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: world that's really doomed, and then there's this one light 68 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: that kind of emerges to ultimately redeem everything. But it 69 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: comes out of a dark night. You're right, And we 70 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 1: talked about this in the episode That Dark in which 71 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 1: there is the sort of inward move into the dark, 72 00:03:56,080 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: into ourselves and exploring this terrain. So it really is 73 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: kind of perfect Christmas Fair in a way. I wanted 74 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: to mention that Dickens wrote the novella in record time, 75 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 1: just six weeks, financing and arranging for the publishing, because 76 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: nobody else would publish it and um and the reason 77 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: why he could tear through it so quickly is because 78 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:19,679 Speaker 1: Christmas Carol is actually a territory that he had covered before. 79 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: There's a story based on Gabriel Grub, a character in 80 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 1: the story of the Goblins who Stole a Sexton, which 81 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: appeared in Dickens's first published novel, The Pickwick Papers, and 82 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: in the story a grave digger determined not to make 83 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 1: merry at Christmas is kidnapped by goblins and convinced to 84 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:39,160 Speaker 1: change his ways. That sounds amazing. I want to see 85 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:41,359 Speaker 1: that in this Christmas. I thought that would have publish. 86 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:45,679 Speaker 1: But um, ultimately we're dying might. Here is a tale 87 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: of greed and generosity, personal gain versus humanitarian gain. So 88 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:53,239 Speaker 1: we're gonna try to cover a little ground today. Using 89 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 1: Scrooge as our basis. We're gonna look at something called 90 00:04:55,880 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: post traumatic embitterment disorder. Uh, the unconscious like a fair 91 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: rap and epiphanies, yes, and and the little drugs at 92 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: the end, just a little drugs perhaps part of the epiphany. Yeah, 93 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:11,919 Speaker 1: but let's start with post traumatic embitterment disorder because this 94 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 1: may be a thing with a capital T. Indeed, um, 95 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: you know to you already mentioned some of the misery 96 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: of Scrooge, but it does It is important to point 97 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: out that he was orphaned as a child. His mom 98 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 1: died giving birth to him, and his distraught father abandoned him. Um, 99 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,479 Speaker 1: so that is you already have like an ample scar 100 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: loaded into the psyche of the young Scrooge. And then 101 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 1: he ends up falling in love with this woman, uh, 102 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 1: and then abandons her in the name of financial game 103 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: because he doesn't have enough money, didn't have it, have 104 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 1: have that portion of his life squared away enough to 105 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: continue on with the the particulars of this romance, so 106 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: he just lets it go. That's right. So when we 107 00:05:55,320 --> 00:06:00,159 Speaker 1: meet Scrooge on the stage, his pain has intensified, This 108 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 1: bitterness has intensified, and intensifies particularly each Christmas Eve because 109 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 1: at this point it's been seven years since Jacob Marley, 110 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:11,599 Speaker 1: his only friend, has passed, and this really ushers in 111 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: these ideas of bitterness and death and um, you could 112 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:22,600 Speaker 1: say that that Scritches really grappling with this at this 113 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 1: point when we see him, this this end game of 114 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: just embitterment that he's put himself into. Yeah, you know, 115 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: as you as you watch any adaptation of this or 116 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 1: or read it, it's easy to just take it taken 117 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 1: these different examples of his awfulness and take those A 118 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,919 Speaker 1: is just you know, fleshing out his characters. Is this 119 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: is what Froude is like. He yells at people who 120 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: are own money. He you know, he chases children away, 121 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 1: He refuses very very nastily to give any money to charity, 122 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: all these different things, you know, impolite and and rude 123 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 1: or down a rude to relatives and employees and all this. 124 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 1: But you could also see this as like this is 125 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 1: the apex of his his misery and bitterness towards others. 126 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: You could say that like that that he has has 127 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: just this is the nastiest scrooge has ever been, and 128 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: he has really isolated himself as a result. So what 129 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: if he became so stressed out about your losses that 130 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:21,119 Speaker 1: you could barely function and you became obsessed with those 131 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: perceived losses, which is a lot of what he's doing right. 132 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: He's going over old terrain and trying to figure out 133 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: what happened to him and feeling very bitter about that. Now. 134 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: According to Dr Michael Lyndon, a German psychiatrist, this is 135 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: a concept named post traumatic environment disorder or pte D, 136 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: and in his two thousand three paper, Dr Lindon noted 137 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 1: that pt e D is similar to post traumatic stress 138 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 1: disorder PTSD, except that those with PTSD suffer intense fear 139 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: and anxiety after experiencing a life threatening event. But those 140 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: with pt e D who are bitter, he says that 141 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: they were hard working and mentally healthy people until a 142 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: true ring event destroyed their core values and shattered their 143 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: basic beliefs. So in a sense, you could say that, 144 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: I don't I don't know. I would say that Scrooge 145 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: was mentally healthy, but perhaps the breaking point for him 146 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: was when he did lose Jacob Marley, who might have 147 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: been sort of his last real connection too to what 148 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: it felt like to have a good working relationship. Yeah, 149 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: and probably a model too of what he should be 150 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: doing with his life and and what is the correct 151 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 1: path to take now. Lyndon first began to piece together 152 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: this idea of post traumatic embitterment disorder when he observed 153 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: it in disillusioned and embittered patients after German reunification. And uh, 154 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 1: and it's it's worth noting that it's we're talking about 155 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: a mixture of depression, helplessness, hopelessness, all all sort of 156 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 1: swirled up into one. It's easy to to just think 157 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 1: of bitterness as uh, to just dismiss it. It's just 158 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: kind of an easy negative character, a trade like oh 159 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: something something crappy happened to this person. They're just bitter. 160 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:06,200 Speaker 1: They're just bitter, Like it's a choice that you make, 161 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 1: you know, to to be bitter instead of be happy 162 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:10,680 Speaker 1: about something. But in one of the articles we were 163 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: looking at, psychologist A Stephen A. Diamond, I thought he 164 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: had a really nice, like just robust explanation of bitterness itself, 165 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: not even getting into post traumatic embitterment disorder. But he 166 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:26,439 Speaker 1: said that it is a kind of morbid characterological hostility 167 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: towards someone something, or towards life itself, resulting from the 168 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: constant repression of anger, rage, or resentment regarding how one 169 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:37,439 Speaker 1: really has or perceives to have been treated, a pro 170 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 1: longed resentful feeling of dis empowered and devalued. Victimization. Yeah, 171 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: victimization is key here because there's a lot of blame 172 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: on other people. Are circumstances. Yeah, yeah, So scrooges in 173 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: this situation where yeah, he's looking at all these institutions 174 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: around him, he's looking at the culture around him, and 175 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:57,679 Speaker 1: to him, he's not the you know, he's not the 176 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 1: the nasty guy that's just not going with the Oh. 177 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: He has been pushed into this corner by the circumstances 178 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 1: in his life. Uh, and and and here he is, 179 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 1: you know, looking up at it as if you know, 180 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 1: from a pit. Now, the core criteria pt D are 181 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 1: one a single exceptional negative life event which precipitates the 182 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: onset of the illness. So again, perhaps Jacob Marley to 183 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: the present negative state developed in the direct context of 184 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 1: the event. Three the emotional response is embitterment and feelings 185 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: of injustice. And four repeated intrusive memories of the event, 186 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:37,839 Speaker 1: so again obsessing about it. Five emotional modulation is unimpaired. 187 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: Patients can even smile when engaged in thoughts of revenge. 188 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: And six no obvious other mental disorder that can explain 189 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: the reaction. So that's where it gets a little bit 190 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 1: murky because Lyndon found that pte D patients also suffered 191 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: from a suite of other emotional complaints. Um, some of 192 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:03,439 Speaker 1: them just had general adjustment disorders, some of them had 193 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 1: general depression or something called this just by mia, and 194 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 1: then there were anxiety disorders as well. So it's kind 195 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: of a poop poop platter here. Yeah, And therefore it's 196 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 1: also easy to misdiagnose it then, to say, oh, well, 197 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 1: this person is just suffering from from a generalized anxiety disorder, 198 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: and you're not necessarily treating the root cause of of 199 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: what's going on. But what definitely some of the hallmarks 200 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: here are isolations like you get you become so obsessed 201 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: with how you feel that you have been wronged in 202 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: life that you began to think about these details and 203 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 1: blame people and and really cut off your social connections. 204 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 1: And bitterness can have some severe physiological ramifications as well, 205 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: it seems, um, and of course that's kind of forecast 206 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: by the third ghost who points out, hey, you keep 207 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: down this path, it's going to kill you. Right. According 208 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: to Carston Wash, a professor in Corcodia Sor, a professor 209 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 1: in the Concordia University Department of PSI Cology and a 210 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: member of the Center for Research and Human Development, quote, 211 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: bitterness may forecast patterns of biological disregulation, a physiological impairment 212 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 1: that can affect metabolism, immune response, or organ function and 213 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: physical disease. It's kind of a downer, yeah, but this 214 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: is Christmas. If you if you engage in cognitive behavioral therapy, 215 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: it could be really helpful. That's what Lyndon had found. Um, 216 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,079 Speaker 1: the problem is that a lot of people don't seek 217 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: help when they're in a situations, especially if you have 218 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 1: cut yourself off from almost everyone around you. Because I again, 219 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 1: look at Scrooge, who's reaching out to him like a 220 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: few people. Basically his nephew is the main one who's saying, hey, 221 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 1: come have some human companionship. Uh, you know, be be 222 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 1: a decent person. Uh you know, I'm I'm here. And 223 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: that's like the one of the few remaining lifelines that's 224 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 1: still being thrown to him. So, yeah, you're in a 225 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:55,680 Speaker 1: situation like that, You're you're not getting a lot of 226 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: lifelines anymore. It's true. All right, let's take a quick break, 227 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,959 Speaker 1: and when we get we're gonna take a quick detour 228 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: into the unconscious. All right, we're back. Yeah, let's discuss 229 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: the unconsciousness of heaven user Scrooge, right because as we know, 230 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 1: again he has had all these different life events stacked 231 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: up one after the other, and so obviously that's going 232 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: to not just color his worldview, but that is going 233 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,959 Speaker 1: to color his unconscious And we'll dip right back into that. 234 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 1: I know we've talked about it before, but David Eagleman 235 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 1: in his book Incognito, the secret life of the brain. 236 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 1: He claims that the brain is running the show incognito 237 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 1: and that this consciousness, this I feeling, is just kind 238 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:47,679 Speaker 1: of this bit player that is on the sidelines of 239 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 1: this vast network of circuitry. And so he says, we're 240 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 1: not at the center of ourselves. Instead, we're like the 241 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 1: Earth in the Milky Way and the Milky Way in 242 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: the universe, and we're far out on that distant hearing 243 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 1: little of what's actually transpiring. Yeah. Philosopher and cognitive scientists 244 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: Dan denn It puts it this way. A person is 245 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 1: approximately one trillion little cellular robots, an army. We emerge 246 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 1: from that. Consciousness emerged from that. So the Scrooge that 247 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 1: we encounter is is due to uh, you know, a 248 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 1: lot of storms raging underneath the surface, and where he 249 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: himself is only encountering surface level Scrooge. So what's interesting 250 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: about this is that along comes this tour through his past, 251 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: present in future, which you could say would be it 252 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: might be a dream, or it might actually be ghosts 253 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: that are visiting him. In any case, there has been 254 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 1: this idea put out there that it is a kind 255 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 1: of psychotherapy of the unconscious that is uncovering all of 256 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 1: these things for Scrooge. Okay, so these are manifest manifestations. 257 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 1: These are like yung Gian figures that are emerging from 258 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: his subconscious h and he's forced to to to actually 259 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: confront them. Yeah, especially if you consider that every Christmas 260 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: Eve for the past seven years he's had this crisis, 261 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: and for those seven years, perhaps um all these things 262 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: have been going under the cover of his consciousness and 263 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: they now show up in this kind of form. So 264 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 1: the idea here is that these spirits goes aliens immune, 265 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 1: and the manifestations, whatever you want to call them, uh, 266 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: that they are providing a form of psychotherapy. Yeah. The 267 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: American Psychological Association says there's several approaches to psychotherapy, including 268 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 1: cognitive behavioral which we already mentioned, interpersonal and other kinds 269 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: of talk therapy, and that helps people sort of work 270 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: through their problems. It's grounded in dialogue, a lot of talking. Again, 271 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: it provides a supportive environment that allows you to talk 272 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 1: openly with someone who's objective, neutral and non judgmental. And 273 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: I don't know that you would say all the spirits 274 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: are non judgmental, but I remember them being a bit 275 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: dispassionate and being sort of like here, here's this, here's that. Yeah, 276 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: I mean, especially the last one is rather dispassionate. Uh 277 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: but but yeah, Well, it's easy to think back on 278 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: those three spirits and just focus on the fact that 279 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: they are showing him things and showing him these visions 280 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 1: of things that have been and things to come and 281 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 1: things that are. But there is a lot of talking. 282 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: There's especially with the first two spirits. So the last 283 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 1: one doesn't really say much, but with the first two especially, 284 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 1: there's a dialogue going on between Scrooge and the ghost, 285 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: and you could you could easily say that that is 286 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 1: a kind of psychotherapy. They're saying, look at these look 287 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: at these events, look at what happened here. How do 288 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: you feel about that? Now? This is interesting. Psychiatrist Stephen E. 289 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: Wars has presented on this particular topic a number of times, 290 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 1: and he goes so far as to suggest that Jacob 291 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: Marley is Scrooge's primary physician, referring Scrooge to psychological spirit guides. Yeah, 292 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: he does. He does have the interaction with him where 293 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 1: he's like, Scrooge, yeah, it's terrible, you don't want this. Yeah, 294 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: he's saying I screwed up, my path ended up being 295 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: the wrong one. I can't really help you, but here 296 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: are three specialists they can Yeah, and you had mentioned 297 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:10,159 Speaker 1: Stephen Diamond. He says that in UNGI in terms, we 298 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 1: could say that his unconscious self scrooges, unconscious self starts 299 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 1: speaking to him on that cold and lonely Christmas Eve 300 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:21,640 Speaker 1: via his dreams. Dreams, as Freud found, are the via 301 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 1: riggia or regal road to the unconscious and can be 302 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 1: understood as forms of communication from the unconscious. Yeah. I 303 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 1: think that's a solid interpretation. I like that. Yeah, so 304 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: you could make the case, yes, that these uh, these 305 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 1: spirit guides were taking him through an accelerated pace of 306 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 1: psychotherapy and order for him to arrive at an epiphany. 307 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 1: And as we all know, epiphanies are. They're kind of 308 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: weird things. They seem again like those sort of aha moments, 309 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,640 Speaker 1: when in fact they have been bubbling under the surface. 310 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 1: On that note, let's take a quick break and when 311 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:58,440 Speaker 1: we come backphanies and we're gonna hit rock bottom here, Yes, 312 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:08,479 Speaker 1: all right, we're back. Epiphany's epiphanies are the stuff of 313 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,880 Speaker 1: great stories. Um, well, at least there's the stuff of stories. Um, 314 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: you're in a constantly encountering characters who have that just 315 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: extreme aha moment, right, um and uh, and you do 316 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: see that in Scrooge. Right, he wakes up from all 317 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 1: of this and he realizes I had it all wrong. 318 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:26,159 Speaker 1: I'm changing my life. And you see this in an 319 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 1: other Christmas stories to um, um, you see this in 320 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: It's a Wonderful Life too, Right, he has that epiphany 321 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: where he realizes, hey, life is worth while living. It's 322 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 1: worth climbing out of the pit. Four. I am going 323 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: to survive this horrible season. But the pit that's the 324 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 1: important part. That's the rock bottom that you usually have 325 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: to hit in order for you to be able to 326 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: get a handle on what it is you need to confront. 327 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: And you know he's another fictional character, uh, semi fictional 328 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:54,200 Speaker 1: character who hit rock bottom before before everything got rolling. 329 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: Dante Dante. Okay, you know he reaches this this dark point. 330 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 1: That's why he has to go through hell and then 331 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: purgatory and finally haven't all right. So you see there's 332 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 1: a rich literary tradition here. John Skalski and Brigham Young 333 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: University psychology professor Sam Hardy conducted an in depth study 334 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:17,159 Speaker 1: of fourteen people who experienced profound, sudden and lasting change. 335 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: I will take issue with sudden though, right UM it 336 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 1: says that the parallels they found with participants in Scrooge 337 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:26,880 Speaker 1: is that they all had hit rock bottom in their lives, 338 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,160 Speaker 1: and they all had a trusted friend like Marley who 339 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 1: opened up their perspective on their perceived life tragedies, allowing 340 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 1: them to recast and recover from them. Now I want 341 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: to throw in here that rock bottom doesn't necessarily mean 342 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,199 Speaker 1: I was in in a gutter or I was at 343 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 1: the bottom of a grape. It can just mean like 344 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:51,400 Speaker 1: you've reached like maximum stress level, maximum emotional psychological angst 345 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 1: over a particular thing. Yeah. Again, these are these are 346 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 1: huge life events. A lot of them had to do 347 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,919 Speaker 1: with money. To write, like, people were uh pretty tied 348 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: to their associations with money and their status with money, 349 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: and then the kind of world we built for ourselves. Indeed, 350 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: and when they were um, when that was taken away 351 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 1: from them or they lost that fortune, than they had 352 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,119 Speaker 1: to confront what it meant to be that person that 353 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: they were inhabiting. So that's what's interesting about this. UM. 354 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:21,479 Speaker 1: You can find more information out about it in the 355 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 1: Humanistic Psychologists that the January issue. But we brought it 356 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 1: up because we thought, well, Scrooge, he's definitely hit rock bottom. Indeed, 357 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 1: now in that study that there's also something I like 358 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: to think of as a Marley factor is that the 359 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: most study participants described the presence of a living, trusted 360 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,920 Speaker 1: other person during their experience. So again the can sort 361 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 1: of give that value to Marley. Yeah, and again that's 362 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: that person who can provide that perspective shift because we 363 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,160 Speaker 1: all need that. Right when you're down in the dumps, 364 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 1: you've hit rock bottom, you need someone to say it's 365 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: okay like you, You're you're breathing right now. There's there's 366 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 1: food available to you hopefully, So when you know someone 367 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,360 Speaker 1: to say, you can go on. Yeah, you can say 368 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:06,479 Speaker 1: Marley's a sponsor. I guess you know it could be. 369 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: So he hasn't really kicked his condition, since he is 370 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,879 Speaker 1: presumably a denizen of Hell, right, doesn't have a motivation 371 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 1: to anymore. He's just shackled, right, He shackled to his 372 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 1: ledger book right something along to some sort of symbol 373 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: symbols of his his preoccupation with money and book keeping. 374 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,360 Speaker 1: The chains he forged in life. And I do want 375 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:31,119 Speaker 1: to mention another reason that I love that Scrooge musical, 376 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 1: the film Addictation with Albert Finney, is that Scrooge actually 377 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,439 Speaker 1: goes to Hell. In it, there's an actual hell with 378 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 1: like big beefy demons walking around, big beefy demons. Yeah, 379 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:44,919 Speaker 1: it's like it's big, like muscular, red painted demons busking around. 380 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: And there's a scene with ghosts flying through the air. Okay, 381 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: So why didn't NBC air that instead of Peter Pam Live? 382 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,160 Speaker 1: As much as I like seeing Christopher walking like sort 383 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 1: of oddly drunk dancing as a pirate, I don't know. 384 00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 1: Maybe that could be the next one, because the whole 385 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 1: thing is like they have to do live productions of 386 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: musicals or plays, right, they could do Scrooge. It's a 387 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: it's it's a musical, and it's got some wonderful numbers 388 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:08,919 Speaker 1: in it. So do that next year. Maybe I'll watch it. 389 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,159 Speaker 1: They could, and they should. Now there is something a 390 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: little something called altruism that Scrooge was able to finally 391 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: tap into when he had his epiphany. Tap into is 392 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: putting it ladly, because he really he didn't just turn 393 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:25,719 Speaker 1: on the tap. He'd like hacks into the keg with 394 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:29,160 Speaker 1: an axe. He just goes crazy, given out stuff, right, 395 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: and that's always the big scene where he's it's toys 396 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 1: for everyone, it's giant turkeys for everyone. It's just because 397 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:36,919 Speaker 1: it's built up a right. He has all of this 398 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,920 Speaker 1: do gooderie. He could have been doing, all this altruism 399 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: that that he that he could have been engaging with, 400 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 1: and he hasn't for years and years, I mean for 401 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: much of his life. And we've talked about this before. 402 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,439 Speaker 1: We've talked about altruism and happiness and this idea that 403 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 1: your brain is reward system is actually gonna light up 404 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: when you engage in acts of altruism. Psychologist Lizabeth Dunn 405 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 1: and Laura acne In, along with Michael Norton of Harvard 406 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 1: Business School, conducted a two thousand and eight study in 407 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: which participants were given either five dollars or twenty dollars 408 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 1: to spend. By the end of the day, half were 409 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 1: instructed to buy for themselves, the other for someone else, 410 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 1: and that evening. People who had been assigned to spend 411 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: money on someone else reported happier moods over the course 412 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: of the day than did those people assigned to spend 413 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 1: money on themselves, which I think makes sense. Yeah, I 414 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:28,719 Speaker 1: mean at the very base of it, like not even 415 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 1: getting into the act of it, you're you're thinking about 416 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: someone else. It's taking you out of your own uh 417 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,199 Speaker 1: you know, default mode network and in your thoughts of 418 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: self and putting you into thoughts of another. And ultimately 419 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:42,199 Speaker 1: that's one of, in my opinion, one of one of 420 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,159 Speaker 1: the benefits, the one of the pros that comes with 421 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 1: the holiday season is an emphasis on, at least to 422 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:52,679 Speaker 1: some extent, thinking about other people. Right, and you in 423 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: a way you're empowered because you feel like you're making 424 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: an impact or positive impact on someone else. Yeah, if 425 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,440 Speaker 1: you're able to get of them something that they need. Yeah, 426 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: after the experience is done, you have the memory of 427 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 1: the experience and the feeling that you did something, and 428 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,959 Speaker 1: also kind of the open ended question you can almost 429 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,680 Speaker 1: you almost end up sort of fantasizing about how they 430 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: feel about what you did, just to bring it all 431 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:17,880 Speaker 1: back to kind of a selfish gene area, but as 432 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: opposed to just buying something and then there you are 433 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 1: with the thing you bought, and how does that feel? 434 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,880 Speaker 1: Feeling like an empty husk? Yeah, that's right. Now, there 435 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:33,200 Speaker 1: is an alternate take on how Scrooge achieved this epiphany. Yes, yeah, 436 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: this is uh, this is one that I've I've blogged 437 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: about before, and it really it all comes back to 438 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: the saucepan, because after, you know, after he wakes up, 439 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 1: he's had the epiphany. This is directly from Dickens a 440 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,680 Speaker 1: Christmas Carol. He says, there's the saucepan that the gruel 441 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 1: was in, cried Scrooge, starting off again and frisking around 442 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 1: the fireplace. There's the door by which the ghost of 443 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 1: Jacob Marley entered. There's the corner where the ghost of 444 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:59,120 Speaker 1: Christmas Presents sat. There's the window where I saw wandering spirits. 445 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:04,360 Speaker 1: It's all right, it's true, it all happened. That's right. 446 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: That's that's a Scrooge who is just having his epiphany 447 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,120 Speaker 1: and seems to be in a bit of an altered state. Yeah, 448 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: and and so I have to ask what was in 449 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: the saucepan? Why? Indeed does when Marley appears, he initially 450 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 1: tries to just miss it by saying, oh, it's you're 451 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,679 Speaker 1: just something I ate, some bit of uh, you know, 452 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: a bad potato or whatever. Um, But perhaps it was 453 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,679 Speaker 1: something different. Than bad potato. Perhaps it was um a 454 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: psychedelic substance, hallucogenic substance that gave him this experience. And 455 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 1: if we refer back to some of our podcasts that 456 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,879 Speaker 1: we've done on let's see the scientists in the Shaman series. Uh, 457 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 1: we did an episode about psychedelics UH being administered to 458 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,919 Speaker 1: prepare one for death and and the various research that 459 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:56,200 Speaker 1: has gone into the potential non recreational uses for these substances. 460 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: And you see a couple of prime candidates as to 461 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: what might have been that gruel, something that would have 462 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 1: blown opened the doors of perception, right, and then something 463 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,640 Speaker 1: that might have made him feel as though he were 464 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: one with fellow man. Yeah yeah, and and made and 465 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: give him gave him a lasting or you know, change 466 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:19,440 Speaker 1: in personality. UM. So, one possibility here is that there 467 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 1: was DMPT in the group. U. D MT, of course, 468 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 1: is in naturally occurring psychedelic compounds that's found in plants 469 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 1: such as Iowasa vines in South America, and as with 470 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 1: all natural psychedelics of stuff has factored into shamanistic rituals 471 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:37,120 Speaker 1: for thousands of years. UM under shaman's guidance, individuals partook 472 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 1: of these perception altering elements and endured intense and sometimes 473 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 1: harrowing mental journeys through time and space. They encountered unreal entities, 474 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 1: shades that departed loved ones, and they saw the world 475 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: around them as if for the first time, and perceived 476 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,439 Speaker 1: deep truths about themselves and the cosmos. Uh. And finally, 477 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,360 Speaker 1: as the effects of d m T would wear off 478 00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: or the or the the iowassa, what have you, they 479 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,199 Speaker 1: immerge from their mental journey transformed. Now what does that sound? Right? 480 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,160 Speaker 1: That sounds like Scrooge after eating a little gruel? Yeah? Yeah, yeah. 481 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,199 Speaker 1: And you know, as we discussed in that in that 482 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 1: podcast episode of the pair of podcast episodes, Scientists and 483 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 1: the Shame and Research is A. John Hopkins Medical Center 484 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,720 Speaker 1: and other esteemed of medical research labs continue to study 485 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: the effects of d MT and other psychedelics not only 486 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:22,440 Speaker 1: do it better understand how our minds work, but also 487 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 1: to learn how these substances can help us treatmental illnesses, UH, 488 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: deal with addictions, and maybe even find a bit of enlightenment. 489 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: So I guess that that goes to future would be 490 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: a bit of a bad trip. Part. Yes, you could 491 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: say that, but I mean that's it's kind of a 492 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,879 Speaker 1: bad trip. I guess it's kind of kind of relative because, uh, 493 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 1: everything we've we've read about, uh, the intense experiments, experiences 494 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 1: of d M. T or Ayahuassa. You know, you're you're 495 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: often dealing with really harrowing encounters. I mean, stuff that's 496 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: gonna change you, stuff that should not be taken lightly 497 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,399 Speaker 1: at say a fish show yea indeed now. And the 498 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 1: other possibility is that it could have been sold cybin 499 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: magic mushrooms right. Two thousand eleven study of John Howkmins 500 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 1: University gave high doses of psilocybin to fifty one test subjects, 501 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:12,199 Speaker 1: and thirty of these individuals experienced measurable personality changes that 502 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: lasted more than a year and what changes will According 503 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,959 Speaker 1: to researcher Dr Katherine McLean uh in uh in an 504 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,719 Speaker 1: episode of the Secular Buddhist podcast, which I highly recommend 505 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: everyone check that out, openness was affected out of all 506 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: measurable personality traits. And again that's ultimately where we find Scrooge. 507 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:31,959 Speaker 1: Suddenly he is open to the world. He blasts up 508 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 1: in those windows and talks to a random child. He's 509 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: blasting open his own windows to let the world back 510 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,959 Speaker 1: in which allows him to finally listen to what Jacob 511 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 1: Marley has to say. And I thought maybe we could 512 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 1: walk ourselves out of this episode with this quote from 513 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 1: uh from Marley. After Scrooge says what do you do? 514 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 1: And why are you walking around like a ghost, he says, 515 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: you're always a good man of business. Jacob and the 516 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 1: ghost of Arley, his legs bound by a chain of 517 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: ledger books and cash boxes, replies business mankind was my business. 518 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: The common welfare was my business. Charity, mercy, forbearance, and 519 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: benevolence were all my business. The dealings of my trade 520 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 1: were but a drop of water in the comprehensive ocean 521 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:25,880 Speaker 1: of my business. Yeah, yeah, So there you have it 522 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 1: at Christmas, Carol Scrooge. That's our take on the man 523 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 1: and his condition, drawing in some some science here and there. 524 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 1: But of course we'd love to hear from everyone else 525 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 1: out there. What's your take on Scrooge in his predicament 526 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: and how do you tie it into your own experience 527 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: of the holidays. Indeed, and if you guys would like 528 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 1: some more from us, you can visit stuff that blow 529 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: your mind dot com. That's right, you'll find all the 530 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 1: podcast episodes, all the blog posts, um, all the videos. 531 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: Links out to our social media accounts stuff to Blow 532 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 1: your Mind dot com. In the meantime, send us an email. 533 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you, and you can do 534 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 1: that by sending your little ditty to blow a mind 535 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com. 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