WEBVTT - Heavy Water

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of

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<v Speaker 1>My Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind.

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<v Speaker 1>My name is Robert Lamb, and I'm Joe McCormick. And

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<v Speaker 1>today I wanted to start off by talking about something

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<v Speaker 1>that may have come up in the past on the

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<v Speaker 1>show before. I don't quite remember, but I don't think

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<v Speaker 1>we've ever gone into great detail on it. So there

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<v Speaker 1>is this popular chemistry prank that that goes something like this.

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<v Speaker 1>You you approach somebody with a petition or a public

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<v Speaker 1>service announcement. Uh. And if I could do the Donald

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<v Speaker 1>pleasants like Spirit of Dark and Lonely Water Voice, I

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<v Speaker 1>would do this. But just imagine it. Can you imagine

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Donald Pleasant saying this to you? What if I

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<v Speaker 1>told you there was a household chemical present in more

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<v Speaker 1>than of homes in America which is used as an

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<v Speaker 1>an ingredient in everything from packaged foods to cleaning products

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<v Speaker 1>to children's medicine. And yet this chemical has been proven

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<v Speaker 1>to cause severe burns to the skin and mouth, can

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<v Speaker 1>be lethal if it's inhaled, and is the primary constituent

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<v Speaker 1>in acid rain. According to historical sources, this was the

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<v Speaker 1>main ingredient in the poison that Socrates drank to commit

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<v Speaker 1>suicide after his trial and Athens. It's so corrosive that

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<v Speaker 1>it can eat holes in solid iron, and yet we

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<v Speaker 1>expose our bodies to this chemical every time we have

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<v Speaker 1>a cup of tea or take a shower. Studies have

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<v Speaker 1>found that trace amounts of this compound linger in our

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<v Speaker 1>decomposing bodies, even for months after we die. It is

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<v Speaker 1>so addictive that the average human cannot at this point

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<v Speaker 1>survive more than a few days without receiving a dose.

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<v Speaker 1>This chemical is called dihydrogen monoxide, and it has already

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<v Speaker 1>been found in nearly every natural environment on Earth, and

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<v Speaker 1>if we don't ban it soon, there will not be

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<v Speaker 1>a single patch of the planet left uncontaminated. Now, there

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<v Speaker 1>are million versions of this, but a lot of them

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<v Speaker 1>will ask people to kind of sign on and be like, oh, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, we've got to get this thing out of

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<v Speaker 1>our out of our homes and all that. Yeah, because

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<v Speaker 1>then it's clearly we're talking about something that's a threat

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<v Speaker 1>to the children, uh, to America, to life as we

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<v Speaker 1>know it. And it's it's funny because when I think

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<v Speaker 1>about this prank, so obviously the joke is that what

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<v Speaker 1>it's talking about is water. And so it's a joke

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<v Speaker 1>that works on several levels. For one, it's an example

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<v Speaker 1>of how even technically true statements can be extremely misleading

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<v Speaker 1>without being put in the proper context. Uh. And I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's also just used to sometimes suggest that people

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<v Speaker 1>should get like better education and chemistry in the natural sciences,

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<v Speaker 1>which sure, you know, fair enough, I also wish I

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<v Speaker 1>was better educated in chemistry. But I think it's on

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<v Speaker 1>the other side it it does take advantage of something

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<v Speaker 1>that is a totally justified anxiety that people have about

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<v Speaker 1>chemistry in the natural world and especially the modern world,

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<v Speaker 1>because when we make decisions about deadly risks about physical

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<v Speaker 1>cause and effect, you know, our intuitions and our knowledge

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<v Speaker 1>about how things work are are strongly biased towards perceiving

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<v Speaker 1>physical threats within what you might call like the Newtonian

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<v Speaker 1>physical domain, like threats from big moving objects somewhere between

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<v Speaker 1>the size of a pebble and a landslide. But especially

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<v Speaker 1>since the Industrial Revolution, the world is also full of

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<v Speaker 1>chemical threats that are really somewhat invisible in this respect,

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<v Speaker 1>like they don't really show up on the Newtonian physical domain.

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<v Speaker 1>And so we've got some natural defenses against chemical threats

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<v Speaker 1>like this. We've got our senses of taste and smell,

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<v Speaker 1>and we have some aversion reactions in like our digestive

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<v Speaker 1>system or respiration system. Like sometimes you detect a noxious

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<v Speaker 1>chemical and you bar where you start coughing or something.

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<v Speaker 1>Our our bodies can can help detect and reject things.

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<v Speaker 1>But we all know by this point that there are

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<v Speaker 1>in fact extremely dangerous chemicals that are essentially undetectable to

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<v Speaker 1>our senses, either because they have no strong smell or taste,

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<v Speaker 1>or the relevant doses are so tiny that we wouldn't

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<v Speaker 1>notice them before it's too late, or because maybe they

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<v Speaker 1>don't have an effect until they've had until you've had

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<v Speaker 1>extreme repeated exposure or consumed the lots of chemicals we're

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<v Speaker 1>gonna be talking about one of the latter today, and

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<v Speaker 1>so this is the kind of compound that we're going

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<v Speaker 1>to be getting into. A chemical that has proven fascinating

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<v Speaker 1>and very useful, but also strangely dangerous depending on the context.

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<v Speaker 1>A sort of Dopple gang or of water. The wetness

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<v Speaker 1>of the shadow realm. Today, I wanted to talk about

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<v Speaker 1>heavy water, and it is heavy, literally heavy but I

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<v Speaker 1>want to want to say this is not to be

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<v Speaker 1>confused with hardwater. Uh So, if you're out there listening,

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<v Speaker 1>we're talking about heavy water, not hardwater. Hard water is

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<v Speaker 1>just water with high mineral content. Oh is that what

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<v Speaker 1>it is? I think I literally didn't know that. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>this is the one that, like, you know, they can

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<v Speaker 1>can mess with how your soap SuDS up, that sort

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<v Speaker 1>of thing. Oh okay. Uh though some people like it

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<v Speaker 1>because it makes their hair look good, right or at

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<v Speaker 1>least yeah, I don't know. It's one of those things.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't have a lot of experience with it or

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<v Speaker 1>maybe really even knowledge of of hard water. So when

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<v Speaker 1>you brought up this topic, I initially thought you were

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<v Speaker 1>talking about doing, uh an episode or episodes about hard water.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's not hard water. Again heavy water. The washers

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<v Speaker 1>in your shower will really rust after this episode. Alright,

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<v Speaker 1>So for the rest of the episode, we're going to

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<v Speaker 1>discuss a few things that that we found interesting about

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<v Speaker 1>heavy water, its role in the natural world and history,

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<v Speaker 1>and maybe the question of whether you should drink it.

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<v Speaker 1>Um So at the molecular level, as we all know,

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<v Speaker 1>regular water is made of two hydrogen atoms and one

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<v Speaker 1>oxygen atom. It's H two O, and this trifled structure

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<v Speaker 1>makes for a really amazing and powerful polar molecule that

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<v Speaker 1>acts as kind of master solvent that makes life itself possible.

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<v Speaker 1>Every cell in your body depends on the particular kular

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<v Speaker 1>chemical properties of this molecule. Without H two O, nothing

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<v Speaker 1>in the organic world works. Now. Heavy water is an

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<v Speaker 1>alternative form of the same molecule which relies on a

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<v Speaker 1>different isotope of the hydrogen atom, known as deuterium. A

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<v Speaker 1>normal hydrogen atom also known as protium, just to distinguish

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<v Speaker 1>it from deuterium, is composed of two sub atomic particles.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's got a nucleus that is just one single

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<v Speaker 1>proton and nothing else that has a positive charge, and

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<v Speaker 1>then orbiting that it's got one single electron which has

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<v Speaker 1>a negative charge. Deuterium adds a third element to the mix.

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<v Speaker 1>It adds a single neutron to the nucleus of the

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<v Speaker 1>hydrogen atom. Uh. Now, again, this makes it an isotope

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<v Speaker 1>of hydrogen, and isotope is a is a version of

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<v Speaker 1>an atom that has a different than usual number of

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<v Speaker 1>neutrons in the nucleus, and a new a neutron doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>have a charge, but it does have mass, so an

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<v Speaker 1>atom of deterium is almost twice as heavy as an

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<v Speaker 1>a time of ordinary hydrogen. Deuterium is a stable isotope,

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<v Speaker 1>and it is found in nature. It's not something that's

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<v Speaker 1>just a product of the Industrial Revolution or of nuclear

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<v Speaker 1>reactors or something like that. It's found all throughout water

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<v Speaker 1>in the Solar System, it's found all throughout Earth's oceans.

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<v Speaker 1>Roughly one out of every sixty hydrogen atoms in the

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<v Speaker 1>ocean is actually deuterium. So if deuterium occurs in nature,

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<v Speaker 1>you might wonder, well, where does it come from? With

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<v Speaker 1>most other elements, you can trace their origin to some

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<v Speaker 1>form of nucleosynthesis within stars or during high energy events

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<v Speaker 1>like supernova. However, almost all of the deuterium found in

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<v Speaker 1>nature is a leftover product of the Big Bang. These

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<v Speaker 1>atomic nuclei are not generated by stars, or when they are,

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<v Speaker 1>they're usually destroyed soon after they're created. They've been the

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<v Speaker 1>way they are for thirteen point eight billion years, and

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<v Speaker 1>on Earth, one major place to find hydrogen is bound

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<v Speaker 1>up in water molecules. So in most ways, deuterium behaves

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<v Speaker 1>chemically the same as ordinary hydrogen, so deterium gets locked

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<v Speaker 1>up into water molecules, uh, and it just floats around

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<v Speaker 1>there in the ocean. The technical name for a water

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<v Speaker 1>molecule with deuterium in place of hydrogen is deuterium oxide

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<v Speaker 1>or D two oh. So if you ever seen D

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<v Speaker 1>two oh written out, that means heavy water water molecule

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<v Speaker 1>with deuterium instead of regular hydrogen. It's also sometimes called

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<v Speaker 1>deuterated water, but more commonly it's just known as heavy water. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>as I've said, in many ways, deuterium behaves just like

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<v Speaker 1>protium hydrogen, and so in many ways heavy water blends

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<v Speaker 1>in with and behaves like regular water, but not in

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<v Speaker 1>every way. And a lot of what we're gonna be

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<v Speaker 1>doing in this episode is exploring some of the fascinating

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<v Speaker 1>and historically relevant and weird differences between regular water and

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<v Speaker 1>heavy water. That's right. So one good place to start

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<v Speaker 1>here and that the history of the discovery of heavy

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<v Speaker 1>water is to go back to nineteen That's when chemist

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<v Speaker 1>Author Lamb and Richard Lean of New York University tried

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<v Speaker 1>to define the density of pure water and they kept

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<v Speaker 1>getting varying results, which ultimately paved the road for the

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<v Speaker 1>discovery of isotopes. That's variant those are variants of particular

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<v Speaker 1>chemical elements due to differences in neutrons. And then also

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<v Speaker 1>the discovery of heavy water itself. And this is key

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<v Speaker 1>because because again heavy water isn't something that's you know,

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<v Speaker 1>entirely man made or anything like that. It's in water.

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<v Speaker 1>It just constitutes one part in four thousand, five hundred. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>that that's correct. Now about that number. I was wondering

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<v Speaker 1>about the ratios here because I saw I've seen that

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<v Speaker 1>that ratio one ind and I've also seen the ratio

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<v Speaker 1>of one out of every sixty four hundred UM. Like.

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<v Speaker 1>For example, of one important publication on the evidence for

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<v Speaker 1>the existence of heavy hydrogen back in one which was

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<v Speaker 1>published in the journal Physical Review, was a letter by

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<v Speaker 1>the American chemist Harold C. Yuri which pegged deuterium as

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<v Speaker 1>one out of every hydrogen atoms. But I've also seen

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<v Speaker 1>it published elsewhere that it's it's now thought that at

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<v Speaker 1>least one out of every sixty four D or I

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<v Speaker 1>think more more like sixty twenty or sixty four fifty

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<v Speaker 1>water molecules in Earth's ocean are heavy water UM. So

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know if those numbers represents some kind of

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<v Speaker 1>conflict or if one represents a genuine difference in what

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<v Speaker 1>you'd find in the water molecules in the ocean versus

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<v Speaker 1>what you'd find just in hydrogen. More broadly, I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>quite sure about that, but the point either way is

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<v Speaker 1>that UH is that deuterium is found in nature but

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<v Speaker 1>only in a in a very small proportion of hydrogen.

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<v Speaker 1>And thus heavy water is found in nature but only

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<v Speaker 1>in a very small proportion. It's one out of thousands

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<v Speaker 1>of molecules. Yeah. So it's kind of like if we

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<v Speaker 1>had like a cash only society and you had some

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<v Speaker 1>heavy nickels, they're right where the nickel itself like it's

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<v Speaker 1>it's not it's not worth more, it's not. It's still

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<v Speaker 1>just worth five cents, and factors into the figuring that way.

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<v Speaker 1>But you can imagine scenarios where extra heavy nickels in enough.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh you know, if there are enough of them within

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<v Speaker 1>a larger amount of nickels, that could have an impact

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<v Speaker 1>on things, etcetera. Or if you get into a situation

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<v Speaker 1>sort of this will discuss where people are like, oh man,

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<v Speaker 1>these heavy nickels are great, I've got to get more

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<v Speaker 1>of them. Can I like syth them out of the

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<v Speaker 1>existing Uh, cash population of the existing world nickels. Can

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<v Speaker 1>I make normal nickels into heavy nickels, etcetera. That's very good, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and you could. I can imagine you'd run into unforeseen

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<v Speaker 1>problems if you suddenly decided you wanted to base your

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<v Speaker 1>entire economy on heavy nickels, or I don't know, maybe

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<v Speaker 1>a third of your economy. Uh, that'll tie into something

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<v Speaker 1>we get into in a minute. So I mentioned him

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<v Speaker 1>just a minute ago, that the American chemist Harold c Uri.

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<v Speaker 1>I hope I'm saying his name right, you are, e

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<v Speaker 1>y Uh. He's a very important figure in the discovery

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<v Speaker 1>of deuterium. He usually gets credit along with his collaborators

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<v Speaker 1>for proving the existence of deuterium through spectral copic experiments

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<v Speaker 1>in nineteen thirty one, and he received the Nobel Prize

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<v Speaker 1>for his discovery in nineteen thirty four. But I thought

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<v Speaker 1>it would be useful to just look at a couple

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<v Speaker 1>of the physical properties of heavy water. So one of

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<v Speaker 1>the key differences between heavy water and ordinary water is

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<v Speaker 1>that heavy water is literally heavier because of the extra

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<v Speaker 1>neutrons in the deuterium. You remember, a deuterium atom is

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<v Speaker 1>almost twice as heavy as a regular hydrogen atom. Because

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<v Speaker 1>of that D two oh is about ten percent heavier

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<v Speaker 1>than an equal quantity of regular water. And you might wonder,

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<v Speaker 1>a wait a minute, why only ten percent heavier rather

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<v Speaker 1>than double. The way We'll remember, oxygen with eight protons

0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:44.520
<v Speaker 1>and eight neutrons makes up the bulk of the mass

0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:47.439
<v Speaker 1>of a normal water molecule. It's got oxygen and then

0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:50.240
<v Speaker 1>the lighter hydrogen atom. So you're only increasing the weight

0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:53.000
<v Speaker 1>of UH two of the three atoms and the two

0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:56.320
<v Speaker 1>smaller ones in the water molecule. So so it's ten

0:12:56.360 --> 0:13:00.440
<v Speaker 1>percent heavier. And this results in some very interesting party

0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:04.240
<v Speaker 1>trick potential. For example, regular ice always floats in water,

0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:08.439
<v Speaker 1>but with deuterium, if you make a heavy water ice cube,

0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:10.959
<v Speaker 1>it will sink in water because it's got a greater

0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:14.360
<v Speaker 1>density than the surrounding water. Also, heavy water is more

0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:17.640
<v Speaker 1>viscous than regular water. It's a little bit uh it's

0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:20.880
<v Speaker 1>gonna be a little bit more like a like a jelly,

0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:24.320
<v Speaker 1>and maybe not to a you know, physically perceptible extent

0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:25.760
<v Speaker 1>if you were to hold it in your hands, but

0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:28.920
<v Speaker 1>it is more viscous, which would probably have measurable effects

0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:32.600
<v Speaker 1>if say the oceans were entirely made of deuterium. Yes,

0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:35.800
<v Speaker 1>and this is this is a great question that that

0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:37.600
<v Speaker 1>had been asked on the Internet already. I think it

0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:41.360
<v Speaker 1>originally showed up in as a Cora question, Oh what

0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:43.559
<v Speaker 1>would the ocean be like if it was made out

0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:46.760
<v Speaker 1>of heavy water? And uh and is is sometimes the

0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:51.280
<v Speaker 1>case on Cora. You had a really insightful answer pop up,

0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:54.600
<v Speaker 1>this one from Josh Velson, chemical engineering consultant for bio

0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:57.559
<v Speaker 1>and petro chemicals, and it it was such a neat

0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:00.880
<v Speaker 1>answer that it was actually featured on Slate as well. Uh,

0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:03.040
<v Speaker 1>So I recommend checking that out. But but I want

0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:06.319
<v Speaker 1>to touch on some of the main point that Nelson makes,

0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:09.160
<v Speaker 1>and I want to stress this would be if there

0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:13.040
<v Speaker 1>is a magical instant change, you know, like snap your fingers. Now,

0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:16.320
<v Speaker 1>our oceans are just all heavy water. So it's not

0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:19.600
<v Speaker 1>a realistic scenario, but it's one of those thought experiment

0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:23.560
<v Speaker 1>scenarios that I think helps to underline what we're talking

0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:26.280
<v Speaker 1>about here with heavy water and how it affects It

0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:29.880
<v Speaker 1>would affect you know, various systems. So, first of all,

0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:33.640
<v Speaker 1>since any given portion of the water out there in

0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:37.120
<v Speaker 1>the oceans would be ten point six percent heavier, Velson

0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:40.360
<v Speaker 1>says that anything swimming outside of its pressure zone would

0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:44.000
<v Speaker 1>basically be instantly crushed. Now we've discussed on the show before. However,

0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:46.640
<v Speaker 1>you take certain deep sea organisms and you bring them

0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:50.120
<v Speaker 1>up into shallower waters, you have some exploding effects that

0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:52.560
<v Speaker 1>take place. And likewise, if you take something from shallower

0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:54.640
<v Speaker 1>waters and plunge it down into the depths, there can

0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:57.480
<v Speaker 1>be a crushing scenario. But this just means everything, uh

0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:01.520
<v Speaker 1>that these sort of things would be, uh, are more exaggerated. Yeah,

0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:03.920
<v Speaker 1>I didn't even consider this. But so if the ocean

0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:07.800
<v Speaker 1>is suddenly about ten percent heavier at the molecular level,

0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:10.800
<v Speaker 1>the pressure at the bottom of the ocean would also

0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:14.120
<v Speaker 1>be a lot higher. So so you're suddenly down there

0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:16.880
<v Speaker 1>and it's like somebody's just like put an extra backpack

0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:22.200
<v Speaker 1>on you. Yeah. Absolutely. Also, Velson says that everything floating

0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:24.920
<v Speaker 1>in the ocean would displace more mass, so ships would

0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:28.080
<v Speaker 1>need extra ballast to stay at the same level in

0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:31.800
<v Speaker 1>a heavy water ocean. And then this is interesting, Velson writes, quote,

0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:34.760
<v Speaker 1>a large portion of the oceans would freeze instantly due

0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:37.400
<v Speaker 1>to a higher freezing point. This would release a lot

0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:40.080
<v Speaker 1>of heat into the atmosphere in the polar regions, causing

0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:43.760
<v Speaker 1>a massive imbalance and resulting in some pretty spectacular polar

0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:47.320
<v Speaker 1>cyclones unquote. Well, and then on top of this, the

0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:49.480
<v Speaker 1>mass of the planet would change, This would alter the

0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:52.920
<v Speaker 1>Moon's orbit, and basically it would just mess with weather

0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:55.800
<v Speaker 1>and climate in a major way, resulting in earthquakes, tidal way,

0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:59.240
<v Speaker 1>it's rising sea levels. But of course, to change the

0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:02.040
<v Speaker 1>ocean is to change life as well. So we'll come

0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:05.520
<v Speaker 1>back to this and I'll come back to Nelson's points

0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:13.360
<v Speaker 1>in a debt. Thank alright. So I know what you

0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:16.040
<v Speaker 1>out there are already wondering, Should I drink it? Heavy water?

0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:18.320
<v Speaker 1>Should I? Should I? You know, get a big bucket

0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:20.720
<v Speaker 1>of it and just gulp, gulp, gulp. It sounds like

0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:25.120
<v Speaker 1>the the ultimate metal head like bottled water, right, heavy water?

0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:27.600
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, they would sell it at the metal shows.

0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:31.120
<v Speaker 1>That's really good. So there's actually a great article about

0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:34.800
<v Speaker 1>the history of drinking heavy water in the journal Nature

0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:39.320
<v Speaker 1>Chemistry by the American chemist Michelle Francel. We actually quoted

0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.920
<v Speaker 1>a piece by her, uh at some point in the

0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:46.080
<v Speaker 1>past year, because she wrote a thing that we did

0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:48.200
<v Speaker 1>for Cupid's Lead and Narrow. That was it. She wrote

0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:52.400
<v Speaker 1>an article about the history of sugar of lead as

0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:54.480
<v Speaker 1>it was used in ancient Rome. That was really good.

0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:56.960
<v Speaker 1>But this piece is called The Weight of Water. So

0:16:57.000 --> 0:17:00.880
<v Speaker 1>it's published in Nature Chemistry in twenty nineteen. So she

0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:04.280
<v Speaker 1>begins the story in nineteen thirteen talking about when the

0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:09.080
<v Speaker 1>Hungarian chemist George to Heavis She was visiting the lab

0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:13.760
<v Speaker 1>of Ernest Rutherford in Manchester, England. Now, eventually both of

0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:17.320
<v Speaker 1>these scientists would have Nobel Prizes for their discoveries, but

0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:21.040
<v Speaker 1>at this point Rutherford was the was the senior scientist,

0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:23.639
<v Speaker 1>and Heavis she was more of a young student, you know.

0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:27.360
<v Speaker 1>He was still learned in the ropes. And Rutherford had

0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:31.080
<v Speaker 1>given Heavis she a task here. He wanted to get

0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:34.119
<v Speaker 1>him to take a quantity of lead and find a

0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:37.800
<v Speaker 1>way to chemically isolate all of the radioactive atoms of

0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:40.920
<v Speaker 1>what was then known as radium D from the lead

0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:44.400
<v Speaker 1>in this sample. And Heavis she was unable to find

0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:46.920
<v Speaker 1>a way to do this because what they were calling

0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:50.560
<v Speaker 1>radium D was actually not radium, but a radioactive isotope

0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:52.760
<v Speaker 1>of lead that is now known as lead to ten.

0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:55.960
<v Speaker 1>But in the process of working on this problem that

0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:58.879
<v Speaker 1>he never ended up solving, he is She realized a

0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:03.520
<v Speaker 1>potentially very interesting implication of this failure. When a sample

0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:08.920
<v Speaker 1>contains a radioisotope, a radioactive atom within a massive other atoms,

0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:13.120
<v Speaker 1>you can use these radioactive atoms to track the movement

0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:17.679
<v Speaker 1>of a chemical through a biological system. So, for example,

0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:20.680
<v Speaker 1>if you're curious how lead in the soil is taken

0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:24.240
<v Speaker 1>up by bean plants and then distributed around the plant's body,

0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:28.359
<v Speaker 1>you can spike the soil with radioactive isotopes of lead,

0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:31.040
<v Speaker 1>so the plant will take them up because they're still lead,

0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:33.240
<v Speaker 1>it will treat them the way it normally treats lead,

0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:37.919
<v Speaker 1>but because they're radioactive, they're radioisotopes, you can track what

0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:40.119
<v Speaker 1>the plant is doing them with them. You can use

0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:44.040
<v Speaker 1>equipment to track exactly how these isotopes are metabolized through

0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:47.359
<v Speaker 1>the roots, the stem, the leaves, and you can also

0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:51.800
<v Speaker 1>use these radioactive tracers to track the absorption and elimination

0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:56.600
<v Speaker 1>of elements in animal bodies. So you could find out, well,

0:18:56.680 --> 0:19:00.439
<v Speaker 1>when when somebody ingests lead, does the body immediately purge

0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:03.199
<v Speaker 1>it or does the lead stick around? How long does

0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:05.679
<v Speaker 1>it take the body to purge it? Where does it

0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:08.080
<v Speaker 1>go in the body. And it turns out you can

0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:11.520
<v Speaker 1>use radioactive tracers to find out lots of things about

0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:13.960
<v Speaker 1>what's going on in the body, not just in basic

0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:18.400
<v Speaker 1>biological research, but actually in medicine. Radioactive tracers are used

0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:20.720
<v Speaker 1>in medicine all the time. Now Here, I wanted to

0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:23.800
<v Speaker 1>mention a couple of anecdotes that came across about heavys

0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:26.280
<v Speaker 1>She that are really interesting. He seems like a kind

0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:28.879
<v Speaker 1>of mythic hero in a way, a sort of Romulus

0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:32.399
<v Speaker 1>or Gilgamesh here, or maybe we should say Bill Gamesh,

0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:34.760
<v Speaker 1>uh Bill Gamesh to heav is She. So there were

0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:37.000
<v Speaker 1>a couple of the most popular stories about his life

0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:40.000
<v Speaker 1>that that I I couldn't pass up mentioning. The first

0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:42.960
<v Speaker 1>one I found recounted in a short historical article in

0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:46.440
<v Speaker 1>the Journal of Nuclear Cardiology, and it concerns how heavy

0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:49.080
<v Speaker 1>she first demonstrated that tracer principle that I was just

0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:52.480
<v Speaker 1>talking about. So this is by Strauss at all, uh

0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:57.919
<v Speaker 1>from and the authors here talk about while heaves She

0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:02.080
<v Speaker 1>was working in Manchester in lab in the early nineteen tens,

0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:04.920
<v Speaker 1>he was living at a boarding house that had been

0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:08.000
<v Speaker 1>recommended to him by Rutherford. By the way, so his

0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:10.320
<v Speaker 1>boss is like, hey live in this place, and apparently

0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:13.960
<v Speaker 1>it was just miserable there, he is. She started noticing

0:20:14.680 --> 0:20:18.240
<v Speaker 1>that he didn't just hate his lodgings, he really hated

0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:21.880
<v Speaker 1>the food at his boarding house. He had a sensitive stomach,

0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:26.280
<v Speaker 1>he suffered from indigestion, and he started to suspect something

0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:29.880
<v Speaker 1>was going on. What he thought was happening was that, uh,

0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:32.439
<v Speaker 1>now this is an old school boarding house, right, so

0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:34.560
<v Speaker 1>they give you not just a bed, but a bed

0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:37.760
<v Speaker 1>and your daily meals. And he started to suspect that

0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:42.359
<v Speaker 1>his landlady was recycling food. So you know, she makes

0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:45.640
<v Speaker 1>you a great R. B. Frost and then you eat

0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:47.359
<v Speaker 1>a little bit of it and you don't finish it.

0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:50.199
<v Speaker 1>There's some still on your plate, he is. She suspected

0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:53.800
<v Speaker 1>that the landlady was just taking whatever you couldn't finish

0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:56.159
<v Speaker 1>off of your plate and then taking it back to

0:20:56.200 --> 0:20:58.760
<v Speaker 1>the kitchen and then mixing it up and serving it

0:20:58.800 --> 0:21:02.760
<v Speaker 1>again in some disgyised form the next day. Well, that's

0:21:02.760 --> 0:21:06.719
<v Speaker 1>just being a good mom. You know. You can appreciate,

0:21:06.800 --> 0:21:09.520
<v Speaker 1>you know, of refraining from food waste here. But he is.

0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:11.320
<v Speaker 1>She was not happy with it because I think the

0:21:11.359 --> 0:21:15.439
<v Speaker 1>problem was the beef was already suffering from freshness problems

0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:18.520
<v Speaker 1>and was was being recycled to the point of possible

0:21:18.520 --> 0:21:24.680
<v Speaker 1>food poisoning. So at some point, uh he called. He

0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:28.359
<v Speaker 1>brought this up with his landlady to read from the

0:21:28.480 --> 0:21:32.400
<v Speaker 1>article here quote. His suggestion that she served freshly prepared

0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:35.200
<v Speaker 1>meat more than once a week was met with indignation.

0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:38.920
<v Speaker 1>How could he, she insisted, accuse her of serving anything

0:21:38.960 --> 0:21:42.439
<v Speaker 1>but the freshest of ingredients. Uh, so have is? She

0:21:42.520 --> 0:21:44.840
<v Speaker 1>decided to put this claim to the test using a

0:21:44.960 --> 0:21:47.720
<v Speaker 1>really amazing method, in fact, using some of the exact

0:21:47.800 --> 0:21:50.919
<v Speaker 1>same techniques that he had just been discovering recently in

0:21:51.040 --> 0:21:55.600
<v Speaker 1>Rutherford's lab that we were just talking about. So one Sunday,

0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:58.240
<v Speaker 1>when he is she had eaten as much as he could,

0:21:58.359 --> 0:22:01.600
<v Speaker 1>he secretly spiked the food left on his plate with

0:22:01.680 --> 0:22:04.880
<v Speaker 1>a number of radioactive isotopes. And I'm just gonna read

0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:07.720
<v Speaker 1>from the article here quote. A few days later, the

0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:11.480
<v Speaker 1>electroscope he smuggled into the dining room revealed the presence

0:22:11.640 --> 0:22:17.160
<v Speaker 1>of the tracer radioactive HASH. Confronted with the irrefutable evidence,

0:22:17.280 --> 0:22:20.480
<v Speaker 1>all the landlady could do was exclaim, this is magic.

0:22:21.160 --> 0:22:25.359
<v Speaker 1>The first radio tracer investigation had successfully followed leftover meat

0:22:25.440 --> 0:22:28.760
<v Speaker 1>from the Sunday meal to the kitchen meat grinder, into

0:22:28.800 --> 0:22:32.080
<v Speaker 1>the hashpot, and back into the dining room table. So

0:22:32.200 --> 0:22:37.760
<v Speaker 1>when in doubt, you know, spike your food with radio isotopes. Truly,

0:22:37.840 --> 0:22:40.160
<v Speaker 1>this is one of the great adventures in science right here.

0:22:41.000 --> 0:22:44.960
<v Speaker 1>There's actually a much higher stakes one though, that's a

0:22:45.040 --> 0:22:48.680
<v Speaker 1>story about Heaves. She's life from World War two. So uh,

0:22:48.840 --> 0:22:50.880
<v Speaker 1>there's a there's a great NPR piece about this from

0:22:50.880 --> 0:22:53.520
<v Speaker 1>two thousand eleven by Robert Cruel, which that I'm relying

0:22:53.560 --> 0:22:55.920
<v Speaker 1>on here. I can't say the title or it will

0:22:56.000 --> 0:22:58.480
<v Speaker 1>ruin the story, but it goes like this. So in

0:22:58.480 --> 0:23:01.280
<v Speaker 1>the summer of nineteen forty heavy she was working at

0:23:01.280 --> 0:23:04.040
<v Speaker 1>an institute in Copenhagen, in the laboratory of the great

0:23:04.080 --> 0:23:08.000
<v Speaker 1>physicist Niels Boor. Uh Denmark had been invaded by the

0:23:08.119 --> 0:23:10.320
<v Speaker 1>Nazis earlier that year, I think that was in April

0:23:10.320 --> 0:23:13.399
<v Speaker 1>of nineteen forty, and it was now occupied with German

0:23:13.440 --> 0:23:16.359
<v Speaker 1>troops raiding homes and marching in the streets, and they

0:23:16.560 --> 0:23:19.679
<v Speaker 1>just arrived in Copenhagen later in the summer when the

0:23:19.720 --> 0:23:23.480
<v Speaker 1>story takes place. So at the time, Nils Boor is

0:23:23.520 --> 0:23:28.400
<v Speaker 1>in possession of two gold medals. They are Nobel prizes.

0:23:28.440 --> 0:23:31.000
<v Speaker 1>In fact, which are made of twenty three care at gold.

0:23:31.440 --> 0:23:35.280
<v Speaker 1>But they're not his. They belonged to two German physicists,

0:23:35.840 --> 0:23:39.800
<v Speaker 1>Max von Laua and James Frank, who were both at

0:23:39.880 --> 0:23:43.480
<v Speaker 1>risk within Germany. Frank himself was Jewish and von Laua

0:23:43.680 --> 0:23:47.119
<v Speaker 1>was not, but he was known for his very fierce

0:23:47.160 --> 0:23:50.760
<v Speaker 1>opposition to the Nazi Party. Now they had sent their

0:23:50.760 --> 0:23:56.240
<v Speaker 1>Nobel medals secretly to Boor's institute for safe keeping. But

0:23:56.400 --> 0:23:59.800
<v Speaker 1>here we're faced with a problem. At the time, Germany

0:23:59.880 --> 0:24:02.639
<v Speaker 1>was at war and it was actually illegal to remove

0:24:02.720 --> 0:24:06.080
<v Speaker 1>gold from the country, So by sending their gold medals

0:24:06.119 --> 0:24:09.639
<v Speaker 1>to Boor's lab, Frank and von Laua had committed what

0:24:09.680 --> 0:24:13.160
<v Speaker 1>would probably be a capital offense back home. And worse,

0:24:13.440 --> 0:24:16.080
<v Speaker 1>it couldn't really be covered up because their names were

0:24:16.160 --> 0:24:20.080
<v Speaker 1>engraved on the gold medals. So Boor and his colleagues

0:24:20.080 --> 0:24:23.479
<v Speaker 1>were thinking, oh no, if if our institute is raided

0:24:23.680 --> 0:24:26.320
<v Speaker 1>and uh, it probably will be Born knew his lab

0:24:26.320 --> 0:24:28.080
<v Speaker 1>would be searched because it was known to be a

0:24:28.080 --> 0:24:31.360
<v Speaker 1>safe haven for Jewish scientists and and other people opposed

0:24:31.359 --> 0:24:34.600
<v Speaker 1>to the Nazis who were fleeing fleeing the Nazis, they

0:24:34.600 --> 0:24:37.520
<v Speaker 1>had come to his institute and now they were occupied.

0:24:38.080 --> 0:24:41.119
<v Speaker 1>Um so Boor realized they had to do something to

0:24:41.200 --> 0:24:43.879
<v Speaker 1>hide these medals because if they were discovered, you know,

0:24:43.920 --> 0:24:46.840
<v Speaker 1>these scientists back in Germany would probably be put to death.

0:24:47.000 --> 0:24:50.520
<v Speaker 1>So Boor and his colleague at the time, Heavish, discussed

0:24:50.520 --> 0:24:52.840
<v Speaker 1>their options. They thought about maybe we could bury it,

0:24:52.920 --> 0:24:54.960
<v Speaker 1>bury it in the gardens, but they worried that the

0:24:55.040 --> 0:24:58.520
<v Speaker 1>Nazis would dig all over the grounds and probably find them.

0:24:58.560 --> 0:25:02.520
<v Speaker 1>And then Heavys she came up an amazing solution, uh literally,

0:25:02.560 --> 0:25:07.160
<v Speaker 1>a solution dissolve the metals. This was not easy since

0:25:07.200 --> 0:25:10.040
<v Speaker 1>gold is not very reactive, it's difficult to dissolve. But

0:25:10.080 --> 0:25:12.000
<v Speaker 1>Heavish she knew that there was a solution that would

0:25:12.000 --> 0:25:14.800
<v Speaker 1>do the trick, known as aqua reggia, which is a

0:25:14.840 --> 0:25:18.600
<v Speaker 1>mixture of hydrochloric acid and nitric acid and a three

0:25:18.640 --> 0:25:21.280
<v Speaker 1>to one ratio. Usually so here, I just want to

0:25:21.320 --> 0:25:26.000
<v Speaker 1>read from the NPR piece, and Heavish in his autobiography

0:25:26.119 --> 0:25:30.480
<v Speaker 1>says because gold is quote exceedingly unreactive and difficult to dissolve,

0:25:30.600 --> 0:25:33.639
<v Speaker 1>it was slow going, but as the minutes ticked down,

0:25:33.800 --> 0:25:37.439
<v Speaker 1>both metals were reduced to a colorless solution that turned

0:25:37.480 --> 0:25:40.960
<v Speaker 1>faintly peach and then bright orange. By the time the

0:25:41.040 --> 0:25:45.439
<v Speaker 1>Nazis arrived, both awards had liquefied inside a flask that

0:25:45.560 --> 0:25:49.560
<v Speaker 1>was then stashed on a high laboratory shelf. Then, says

0:25:49.640 --> 0:25:52.560
<v Speaker 1>science writer and Radio Lab contributor Sam Keene in his

0:25:52.600 --> 0:25:57.600
<v Speaker 1>book The Disappearing Spoon quote, when the Nazis ransacked Bares Institute,

0:25:57.800 --> 0:26:00.800
<v Speaker 1>they scoured the building for loot or evidence of wrongdoing,

0:26:00.880 --> 0:26:04.640
<v Speaker 1>but left the beaker of orange Aqua regia untouched. Hev

0:26:04.760 --> 0:26:07.680
<v Speaker 1>she was forced to flee to Stockholm in nineteen forty three,

0:26:07.840 --> 0:26:11.760
<v Speaker 1>but when he returned to his battered laboratory on v Day,

0:26:11.840 --> 0:26:15.760
<v Speaker 1>he found the innocuous beaker undisturbed on a shelf. And

0:26:15.840 --> 0:26:18.119
<v Speaker 1>there's a codage of the story that's pretty interesting. So

0:26:18.200 --> 0:26:21.400
<v Speaker 1>after the war was over, heavy She again used chemistry

0:26:21.440 --> 0:26:24.600
<v Speaker 1>to re extract the same gold from the beakers, had

0:26:24.640 --> 0:26:27.600
<v Speaker 1>that sent to Stockholm, where it was reformed into new

0:26:27.600 --> 0:26:32.399
<v Speaker 1>medals that were again presented to the original recipients. Interesting,

0:26:32.760 --> 0:26:35.359
<v Speaker 1>I mean, kind of unnecessary. I guess that the same

0:26:35.400 --> 0:26:37.760
<v Speaker 1>gold to actually go back to create the you know,

0:26:37.800 --> 0:26:41.920
<v Speaker 1>the same awards, but still neat. It's got that magic thing,

0:26:42.000 --> 0:26:43.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, people always want to like melt down a

0:26:43.880 --> 0:26:45.800
<v Speaker 1>symbol of one thing and turn it into another. I

0:26:45.800 --> 0:26:47.600
<v Speaker 1>guess in this case it was melting down a symbol

0:26:47.600 --> 0:26:49.600
<v Speaker 1>of one thing and turning it back into itself, but

0:26:49.680 --> 0:26:53.160
<v Speaker 1>still has some of the same kind of symbolic weight there. Yeah,

0:26:53.160 --> 0:26:56.800
<v Speaker 1>there's kind of a you know, sitcom level um circular

0:26:56.880 --> 0:26:58.560
<v Speaker 1>motion to the whole thing. Right, we come back at

0:26:58.560 --> 0:27:00.440
<v Speaker 1>the end of the day, we still have the same words. Again,

0:27:00.440 --> 0:27:03.720
<v Speaker 1>they've been reformed into the same thing we're familiar with. Yeah, totally.

0:27:04.480 --> 0:27:07.720
<v Speaker 1>But coming back from from those anecdotes so so so

0:27:07.800 --> 0:27:09.840
<v Speaker 1>now we got an idea of heavs She the character

0:27:09.920 --> 0:27:13.919
<v Speaker 1>hes She, the mythic hero. His life actually also ties

0:27:13.960 --> 0:27:18.879
<v Speaker 1>into heavy Water. So there was one day in Manchester

0:27:18.960 --> 0:27:21.600
<v Speaker 1>in the early nineteen tens where heavy She was having

0:27:21.600 --> 0:27:24.960
<v Speaker 1>a cup of tea with the English physicist Henry Moseley,

0:27:25.040 --> 0:27:27.760
<v Speaker 1>and at the time heavy She was pursuing his radioactive

0:27:27.800 --> 0:27:30.760
<v Speaker 1>tracer experiments with plants, the ones that I was talking

0:27:30.760 --> 0:27:32.960
<v Speaker 1>about earlier, like the bean plants and seeing how they

0:27:33.000 --> 0:27:35.879
<v Speaker 1>take up lead and and all that. Uh So, the

0:27:35.920 --> 0:27:38.719
<v Speaker 1>idea was again that you could learn how elements from

0:27:38.760 --> 0:27:43.200
<v Speaker 1>the soil are metabolized in plant bodies by studying this

0:27:43.280 --> 0:27:47.360
<v Speaker 1>with with radioactive tracers, and apparently heav is she and Moseley,

0:27:47.480 --> 0:27:50.359
<v Speaker 1>we're getting all riled up about this idea, and he

0:27:50.560 --> 0:27:53.399
<v Speaker 1>is She posed a question about whether it would be

0:27:53.440 --> 0:27:56.880
<v Speaker 1>possible to ever mark the water molecules in a cup

0:27:56.960 --> 0:28:00.640
<v Speaker 1>of tea with some kind of tracer that could track

0:28:00.720 --> 0:28:03.920
<v Speaker 1>those molecules throughout the human body. And at the time

0:28:04.080 --> 0:28:05.800
<v Speaker 1>they did not know of a way to do this

0:28:05.880 --> 0:28:09.359
<v Speaker 1>with water molecules. But a couple of decades later, chemistry

0:28:09.400 --> 0:28:11.719
<v Speaker 1>would come around with an answer in the form of

0:28:11.880 --> 0:28:15.840
<v Speaker 1>discoveries by Harold Yuri, which we talked about previously, of

0:28:15.880 --> 0:28:20.080
<v Speaker 1>heavy water. So not long after the existence of heavy

0:28:20.080 --> 0:28:23.159
<v Speaker 1>water based on deuterium was confirmed in the lab, a

0:28:23.320 --> 0:28:26.960
<v Speaker 1>number of world class scientists decided, well, to hell with it,

0:28:27.000 --> 0:28:28.719
<v Speaker 1>you know, let's let's put it in our mouths and

0:28:28.760 --> 0:28:33.000
<v Speaker 1>see what happens. It was. It was a different time

0:28:33.080 --> 0:28:36.679
<v Speaker 1>of experimental regimes. And it's also funny because if you

0:28:36.720 --> 0:28:40.160
<v Speaker 1>read the scientific papers of the time, often they're just

0:28:40.200 --> 0:28:42.720
<v Speaker 1>like a paragraph long. They're just like, here's what we did,

0:28:42.880 --> 0:28:46.320
<v Speaker 1>here's what it tasted like. Nobody died. So in the

0:28:46.400 --> 0:28:50.000
<v Speaker 1>year ninety four, Harold Ury sent George to Heavish a

0:28:50.200 --> 0:28:53.720
<v Speaker 1>sample of water that had been enriched to zero point

0:28:53.760 --> 0:28:58.600
<v Speaker 1>five percent duterations. Remember, of this water is still the

0:28:58.640 --> 0:29:02.240
<v Speaker 1>regular stuff, but this would nevertheless represent a much higher

0:29:02.280 --> 0:29:05.840
<v Speaker 1>concentration of heavy water than a normal glass, right, and

0:29:05.880 --> 0:29:08.160
<v Speaker 1>that percentage is worth keeping in mind for later when

0:29:08.160 --> 0:29:11.240
<v Speaker 1>we're talking about higher percentages in the human body. Right.

0:29:11.760 --> 0:29:14.960
<v Speaker 1>So heav is She and his assistant Eric Hawfer decided

0:29:15.000 --> 0:29:19.120
<v Speaker 1>to test the effects of a deuterium enriched aquatic environment

0:29:19.160 --> 0:29:23.160
<v Speaker 1>on goldfish. So they took twenty small goldfish and immersed

0:29:23.200 --> 0:29:26.959
<v Speaker 1>them temporarily but for steadily increasing periods of time in

0:29:27.000 --> 0:29:31.040
<v Speaker 1>the deutorated water. Uh and so, to read from francel

0:29:31.120 --> 0:29:35.240
<v Speaker 1>here quote, the overcrowded goldfish rapidly exchanged water with the

0:29:35.280 --> 0:29:38.800
<v Speaker 1>deutorated water in the bowl, which became miserably less dense,

0:29:39.280 --> 0:29:41.920
<v Speaker 1>noting no change in the behavior of the zero point

0:29:41.960 --> 0:29:45.440
<v Speaker 1>two percent deutorated goldfish. Though how this might be assessed

0:29:45.480 --> 0:29:48.000
<v Speaker 1>with so many goldfish stuffed into a small glass for

0:29:48.080 --> 0:29:51.600
<v Speaker 1>up to fifteen hours at a time is unclear. Have

0:29:51.840 --> 0:29:54.320
<v Speaker 1>She apparently concluded it was safe to drink the heavy

0:29:54.320 --> 0:29:57.800
<v Speaker 1>water and proceeded to run the experiment. He described Mosley

0:29:57.920 --> 0:30:02.360
<v Speaker 1>twenty years before. So the rationale here is, Okay, it

0:30:02.440 --> 0:30:05.120
<v Speaker 1>seems good enough for a goldfish, good enough for me.

0:30:05.200 --> 0:30:07.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to try it too well. But I like

0:30:07.160 --> 0:30:11.120
<v Speaker 1>that francel brings up again, like it's not exactly clear

0:30:11.200 --> 0:30:14.040
<v Speaker 1>how they were judging what the effects on goldfish were,

0:30:14.160 --> 0:30:16.560
<v Speaker 1>given that they were like cramming lots of goldfish in

0:30:16.680 --> 0:30:19.400
<v Speaker 1>a very small container of water. I guess they observed

0:30:19.400 --> 0:30:22.400
<v Speaker 1>that the goldfish were not dead, right, I mean, if

0:30:22.400 --> 0:30:25.080
<v Speaker 1>you're looking for them to like die instantly or explode

0:30:25.200 --> 0:30:28.680
<v Speaker 1>or something. Yeah, So it's not clear exactly whether heavys

0:30:28.680 --> 0:30:31.600
<v Speaker 1>She or Hoefer did the drinking, but one of them did,

0:30:31.800 --> 0:30:35.280
<v Speaker 1>and they consumed a couple of the samples. They collected

0:30:35.320 --> 0:30:38.400
<v Speaker 1>the heavy water from the drinker's urine, distilled it, and

0:30:38.480 --> 0:30:43.120
<v Speaker 1>measured its density, and about twenty minutes after the chugging,

0:30:43.320 --> 0:30:46.400
<v Speaker 1>deuterated water started showing up in the urine. And in

0:30:46.400 --> 0:30:48.960
<v Speaker 1>this experiment, heavys She and Hopfer found that the average

0:30:49.000 --> 0:30:52.280
<v Speaker 1>molecule of swallowed water lingers in a human body a

0:30:52.320 --> 0:30:55.240
<v Speaker 1>lot longer than it lingers in goldfish and humans. The

0:30:55.280 --> 0:30:58.200
<v Speaker 1>metabolic half life of a dose of water is about

0:30:58.400 --> 0:31:01.600
<v Speaker 1>nine days according to the test at least. But the

0:31:01.600 --> 0:31:04.160
<v Speaker 1>big question I guess is were they okay? Well, if not,

0:31:04.280 --> 0:31:06.840
<v Speaker 1>they didn't report anything. There was no sickness, also no

0:31:06.960 --> 0:31:10.200
<v Speaker 1>notes about what the water tasted like. So after heavys

0:31:10.200 --> 0:31:12.800
<v Speaker 1>She and Hoper published their paper on deuterium as a

0:31:12.840 --> 0:31:16.640
<v Speaker 1>tracer for water and animal bodies, another professor decided to

0:31:16.680 --> 0:31:21.240
<v Speaker 1>follow up by by addressing the question of toxicity head on. Now, obviously,

0:31:21.400 --> 0:31:24.520
<v Speaker 1>whichever one of the the h is drank the heavy

0:31:24.520 --> 0:31:27.800
<v Speaker 1>water was all right. But this wasn't an extremely deluded

0:31:27.840 --> 0:31:31.120
<v Speaker 1>form was a small amount of it. A professor named

0:31:31.200 --> 0:31:35.560
<v Speaker 1>Klaus Hanson of Oslo University performed a toxicity test on

0:31:35.760 --> 0:31:39.040
<v Speaker 1>himself in front of an audience including the press and

0:31:39.080 --> 0:31:42.600
<v Speaker 1>a bunch of medical professionals, with equipment standing by like

0:31:42.680 --> 0:31:47.720
<v Speaker 1>stomach pumps and stuff, and Hansen swallowed what Francill characterizes

0:31:47.760 --> 0:31:51.560
<v Speaker 1>as a quote scant teaspoonful of heavy water. Now it

0:31:51.600 --> 0:31:54.440
<v Speaker 1>turned out the life support equipment was not needed. Hansen

0:31:54.560 --> 0:31:56.440
<v Speaker 1>was fine, though he did report what he called a

0:31:56.600 --> 0:32:02.080
<v Speaker 1>dry burning sensation after swallowing um. And then Harold c

0:32:02.320 --> 0:32:06.440
<v Speaker 1>Uri at Columbia University and his colleague Geno Fhaila decided

0:32:06.480 --> 0:32:09.840
<v Speaker 1>to follow up on this by staging a blind taste test.

0:32:09.960 --> 0:32:11.840
<v Speaker 1>So this is going to be like the Pepsi challenge,

0:32:12.320 --> 0:32:15.720
<v Speaker 1>but for juterium. Uh. And they published the results in

0:32:15.800 --> 0:32:18.800
<v Speaker 1>nineteen thirty five in a paper called concerning the Taste

0:32:18.880 --> 0:32:22.040
<v Speaker 1>of Heavy Water. As I mentioned, sometimes papers were very

0:32:22.040 --> 0:32:24.280
<v Speaker 1>short back then, so I can actually just read the

0:32:24.440 --> 0:32:28.480
<v Speaker 1>entire second paragraph of their paper here Tasting notes for

0:32:28.520 --> 0:32:31.880
<v Speaker 1>heavy water. Right, Okay, so here's what they said. In

0:32:31.960 --> 0:32:34.400
<v Speaker 1>order to make the experiment as objective as possible, a

0:32:34.480 --> 0:32:37.280
<v Speaker 1>third person in a different room prepared the samples to

0:32:37.320 --> 0:32:40.200
<v Speaker 1>be tasted. Each of us was then given two identical

0:32:40.280 --> 0:32:44.600
<v Speaker 1>watch glasses, one containing one cubic centimeter of ordinary distilled

0:32:44.640 --> 0:32:47.520
<v Speaker 1>water and the other the same amount of pure heavy water,

0:32:47.960 --> 0:32:51.800
<v Speaker 1>especially prepared for biological experiments. One of us kept each

0:32:51.800 --> 0:32:53.960
<v Speaker 1>sample in his mouth for a short time to make

0:32:54.000 --> 0:32:56.760
<v Speaker 1>sure of its taste, then spat it out. The other

0:32:56.800 --> 0:33:00.320
<v Speaker 1>repeated the same procedure, but swallowed the water. Either of

0:33:00.360 --> 0:33:02.920
<v Speaker 1>us could detect the slightest difference between the taste of

0:33:03.040 --> 0:33:05.920
<v Speaker 1>ordinary distilled water and the taste of pure heavy water.

0:33:06.240 --> 0:33:08.600
<v Speaker 1>It might be mentioned in this connection that one cubic

0:33:08.680 --> 0:33:10.960
<v Speaker 1>centimeter of water is not too small an amount to

0:33:11.000 --> 0:33:13.960
<v Speaker 1>taste properly. Since both of us could detect plainly the

0:33:14.040 --> 0:33:18.200
<v Speaker 1>characteristic flat taste of distilled water in both cases, it

0:33:18.280 --> 0:33:21.400
<v Speaker 1>may be concluded therefore, that pure deuterium oxide has the

0:33:21.480 --> 0:33:25.960
<v Speaker 1>same taste as ordinary distilled water. Um. Now, this is

0:33:25.960 --> 0:33:28.680
<v Speaker 1>funny because I've read some more recent studies. I think

0:33:28.720 --> 0:33:31.480
<v Speaker 1>one that was that I found in a preprint server

0:33:31.680 --> 0:33:34.560
<v Speaker 1>that has not been published yet that claims that they've

0:33:34.640 --> 0:33:38.800
<v Speaker 1>redone this taste test and decided that that heavy water

0:33:39.000 --> 0:33:42.840
<v Speaker 1>is noticeably sweeter. So they're disagreeing with Urie and Fila here.

0:33:43.120 --> 0:33:45.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm not sure how to sort that out. But one

0:33:45.800 --> 0:33:48.560
<v Speaker 1>of the things about these taste tests that franc Will

0:33:48.600 --> 0:33:53.560
<v Speaker 1>points out is that they were ridiculously expensive, because at

0:33:53.560 --> 0:33:56.640
<v Speaker 1>the time, the scant teaspoonful of heavy water that Klaus

0:33:56.760 --> 0:33:59.960
<v Speaker 1>Hansen swallowed probably cost the equivalent of about a hundred

0:34:00.080 --> 0:34:05.040
<v Speaker 1>thousand dollars in current US dollars. Uh. So, I don't

0:34:05.080 --> 0:34:10.799
<v Speaker 1>know if that's a good use of experimental resources. Uh,

0:34:10.800 --> 0:34:13.640
<v Speaker 1>it's probably. It's probably not surprising that Uri found these

0:34:13.680 --> 0:34:18.200
<v Speaker 1>human experiments wasteful, even though he did one. After all,

0:34:18.239 --> 0:34:21.400
<v Speaker 1>so like if a scant teaspoonful is a hundred thousand

0:34:21.400 --> 0:34:24.280
<v Speaker 1>dollars worth of product, you know, and a tea spoonf

0:34:24.280 --> 0:34:27.200
<v Speaker 1>of water is a vanishingly small sample compared to how

0:34:27.280 --> 0:34:30.640
<v Speaker 1>much water is in an adult human body. It's probably

0:34:30.719 --> 0:34:34.160
<v Speaker 1>just going to be prohibitively expensive to do toxicity experiments

0:34:34.200 --> 0:34:37.400
<v Speaker 1>on a human being with with this stuff. Yeah, I

0:34:37.400 --> 0:34:41.560
<v Speaker 1>mean this seems even above and beyond iracous prices for water, right,

0:34:41.600 --> 0:34:44.520
<v Speaker 1>I mean, this is crazy, Yeah, exactly. You make yourself

0:34:44.520 --> 0:34:47.240
<v Speaker 1>a heavy water still suit, don't don't lose a drop.

0:34:47.760 --> 0:34:50.600
<v Speaker 1>So if you were trying to understand the physiological effects

0:34:50.600 --> 0:34:52.720
<v Speaker 1>of heavy water at scale, you would need to test

0:34:52.719 --> 0:34:55.760
<v Speaker 1>it on a much smaller organism. And eventually some research

0:34:55.800 --> 0:34:57.960
<v Speaker 1>of this was carried out to figure out exactly what

0:34:58.000 --> 0:35:01.440
<v Speaker 1>deuterated water does to plant and animal bodies. That the

0:35:01.840 --> 0:35:05.000
<v Speaker 1>more research of this kind was done throughout the twentieth century.

0:35:05.480 --> 0:35:08.440
<v Speaker 1>A study in nineteen thirty six by Henry Barber and

0:35:08.520 --> 0:35:11.240
<v Speaker 1>Jane Trace found that heavy water was in fact quite

0:35:11.320 --> 0:35:15.000
<v Speaker 1>lethal if it could replace about of the water in

0:35:15.280 --> 0:35:18.000
<v Speaker 1>in the body. And I think this was determined with

0:35:18.000 --> 0:35:21.480
<v Speaker 1>with small mammals like mice um and this is sometimes

0:35:21.520 --> 0:35:25.640
<v Speaker 1>shorthanded to about one third. There there are various percentages

0:35:25.719 --> 0:35:30.000
<v Speaker 1>that are given, but basically you do not want one

0:35:30.200 --> 0:35:34.160
<v Speaker 1>third to you know, half of your body water replaced

0:35:34.200 --> 0:35:40.600
<v Speaker 1>by deuterated water. This creates immense problems. Um Replacement of

0:35:40.760 --> 0:35:44.839
<v Speaker 1>ordinary water with heavy water seems to kill the mammalian

0:35:44.880 --> 0:35:49.640
<v Speaker 1>body once you pass certain thresholds by primarily interfering with

0:35:49.719 --> 0:35:52.960
<v Speaker 1>mitosis or cell division, and in this way its effects

0:35:53.000 --> 0:35:55.240
<v Speaker 1>are strangely similar to what you would see with large

0:35:55.280 --> 0:36:01.520
<v Speaker 1>doses of chemotherapy. Metabolism slows down and cells stop dividing

0:36:01.560 --> 0:36:04.800
<v Speaker 1>and reproducing, and this can lead to of course sterility

0:36:04.840 --> 0:36:08.759
<v Speaker 1>and in the reproductive system, but also interior degradation of

0:36:08.800 --> 0:36:11.600
<v Speaker 1>the function of multiple organs throughout the body and a

0:36:11.719 --> 0:36:16.160
<v Speaker 1>kind of cytotoxic collapse before death. UH. The chemical principle

0:36:16.280 --> 0:36:21.080
<v Speaker 1>that's responsible for this is known as the kinetic isotope effect.

0:36:21.320 --> 0:36:23.799
<v Speaker 1>So I'll try to do the simple version as best

0:36:23.800 --> 0:36:27.319
<v Speaker 1>to understand it. Again, deuterium is chemically pretty much the

0:36:27.360 --> 0:36:29.920
<v Speaker 1>same as regular hydrogen. It's got the same charge, the

0:36:29.960 --> 0:36:34.600
<v Speaker 1>same proton and electron, but because of the heavier nucleus um,

0:36:34.640 --> 0:36:37.759
<v Speaker 1>even though it will usually engage in the same chemical reactions,

0:36:38.160 --> 0:36:41.640
<v Speaker 1>there is a tendency for the changes in the isotopic

0:36:41.680 --> 0:36:46.080
<v Speaker 1>composition to affect the rate of chemical reactions. So even

0:36:46.080 --> 0:36:48.680
<v Speaker 1>though detail is chemically a lot like regular H two oh,

0:36:49.480 --> 0:36:54.040
<v Speaker 1>it's heavy hydrogen forms stronger bonds with the oxygen atoms

0:36:54.040 --> 0:36:57.080
<v Speaker 1>in the water molecules than regular protium does, and this

0:36:57.160 --> 0:37:00.239
<v Speaker 1>means it's harder than usual to break up heavy water

0:37:00.320 --> 0:37:04.480
<v Speaker 1>molecules into their constituent parts, which in turn means lots

0:37:04.520 --> 0:37:08.960
<v Speaker 1>of chemical reactions happen more slowly, and this starts to

0:37:09.000 --> 0:37:13.279
<v Speaker 1>consistently slow down chemical reactions throughout the body. If you

0:37:13.320 --> 0:37:16.279
<v Speaker 1>replace too much of the water in your body with

0:37:16.400 --> 0:37:18.680
<v Speaker 1>D two oh. If there's too much of it and

0:37:18.760 --> 0:37:22.800
<v Speaker 1>chemical reactions get slowed down too much, all hell breaks

0:37:22.840 --> 0:37:25.279
<v Speaker 1>loose cells don't divide, and there there's a kind of

0:37:25.320 --> 0:37:28.279
<v Speaker 1>there are kinds of systemic collapse that that just come

0:37:28.360 --> 0:37:31.560
<v Speaker 1>from this. So heavy water makes for a very strange

0:37:31.640 --> 0:37:34.680
<v Speaker 1>and peculiar type of poison, you know, from everything I've

0:37:34.719 --> 0:37:38.320
<v Speaker 1>been reading. It's something that is usually harmless at doses

0:37:38.360 --> 0:37:41.400
<v Speaker 1>of even probably a glassful. But if you can really

0:37:41.520 --> 0:37:44.560
<v Speaker 1>load somebody up with heavy water to the extent that

0:37:44.600 --> 0:37:47.759
<v Speaker 1>it replaces somewhere between twenty five and of the water

0:37:47.840 --> 0:37:50.600
<v Speaker 1>in their body. It will absolutely kill them in a

0:37:50.719 --> 0:37:55.600
<v Speaker 1>horrific way. It is a ridiculously expensive way to try

0:37:55.640 --> 0:37:58.440
<v Speaker 1>and assassinate somebody. So I'm I'm kind of shocked it

0:37:58.480 --> 0:38:00.880
<v Speaker 1>hasn't been done in a James Bond all. This seems

0:38:00.920 --> 0:38:03.279
<v Speaker 1>perfect for the Bond world. That's a very good point. Now,

0:38:03.320 --> 0:38:04.879
<v Speaker 1>I think heavy water is not going to be nearly

0:38:04.880 --> 0:38:07.120
<v Speaker 1>as expensive as it was when those first taste test

0:38:07.200 --> 0:38:09.520
<v Speaker 1>experiments were done, but still, I mean, yeah, it would be.

0:38:09.560 --> 0:38:13.799
<v Speaker 1>It would be a needlessly elaborate method of assassination. I mean,

0:38:13.840 --> 0:38:16.479
<v Speaker 1>surely one of those CSI shows considered it at some point.

0:38:16.520 --> 0:38:19.200
<v Speaker 1>Maybe they did it. I mean, I'd I'd love to

0:38:19.239 --> 0:38:20.920
<v Speaker 1>hear from anybody if if they if you have seen

0:38:20.960 --> 0:38:24.360
<v Speaker 1>a heavy water murder episode of some sort of episodic

0:38:24.719 --> 0:38:27.440
<v Speaker 1>detective show, I'd like to hear about it. Well, this

0:38:27.520 --> 0:38:31.360
<v Speaker 1>does tie into one particular example that Francile sites in

0:38:31.400 --> 0:38:34.839
<v Speaker 1>her article. Uh that no one was killed fortunately in

0:38:34.880 --> 0:38:38.840
<v Speaker 1>this example, but there was an instance of of heavy

0:38:38.840 --> 0:38:41.400
<v Speaker 1>water poisoning. Though the heavy water turns out to be

0:38:41.480 --> 0:38:45.840
<v Speaker 1>not necessarily the the important part of the story. So

0:38:46.280 --> 0:38:49.600
<v Speaker 1>there was an Associated Press article from March fifth n

0:38:50.320 --> 0:38:52.640
<v Speaker 1>that Francill sites, and I went and looked up the

0:38:52.640 --> 0:38:56.480
<v Speaker 1>original article. It's called power plant worker accused of spiking

0:38:56.560 --> 0:39:01.160
<v Speaker 1>cooler with radioactive water. This happened in in Canada, so

0:39:01.360 --> 0:39:05.560
<v Speaker 1>it's a dateline New Brunswick and uh, just to read

0:39:05.600 --> 0:39:08.360
<v Speaker 1>the lead here quote, a nuclear power plant worker was

0:39:08.440 --> 0:39:12.400
<v Speaker 1>charged Monday with spiking a lunch room cooler with radioactive

0:39:12.440 --> 0:39:16.120
<v Speaker 1>water that eight men drank before the contamination was discovered.

0:39:16.560 --> 0:39:19.080
<v Speaker 1>The eight who drank the contaminated water last month at

0:39:19.120 --> 0:39:22.360
<v Speaker 1>the point Lapro plant have have a slightly higher chance

0:39:22.400 --> 0:39:25.640
<v Speaker 1>of getting cancer, officials said, but are in no immediate

0:39:25.719 --> 0:39:29.319
<v Speaker 1>health danger. Uh. And the article goes on to characterize

0:39:29.360 --> 0:39:32.640
<v Speaker 1>this is probably some kind of practical joke gone awry.

0:39:32.840 --> 0:39:35.600
<v Speaker 1>Does not seem like a very good joke. Again, no

0:39:35.640 --> 0:39:38.600
<v Speaker 1>one died immediately from this, though. The person who spiked

0:39:38.640 --> 0:39:42.000
<v Speaker 1>the water was charged with a crime. Uh. And this

0:39:42.080 --> 0:39:45.680
<v Speaker 1>does tie into an interesting misconception, which is that heavy

0:39:45.719 --> 0:39:51.200
<v Speaker 1>water is naturally radioactive and heavy water it's not deudated.

0:39:51.200 --> 0:39:55.560
<v Speaker 1>Water is not naturally radioactive unless it's been made radioactive

0:39:55.600 --> 0:39:58.440
<v Speaker 1>by say by for example, like being the cool and

0:39:58.640 --> 0:40:03.360
<v Speaker 1>around a nuclear react um. Now water with hydrogen three.

0:40:03.440 --> 0:40:06.399
<v Speaker 1>You remember, heavy water is the kind we've been talking

0:40:06.400 --> 0:40:09.919
<v Speaker 1>about is with hydrogen two deuterium. Water with hydrogen three,

0:40:10.040 --> 0:40:12.520
<v Speaker 1>also known as tritium, would be another story. It is

0:40:12.560 --> 0:40:16.200
<v Speaker 1>definitely radioactive in all its forms, but far far less

0:40:16.200 --> 0:40:19.080
<v Speaker 1>common in nature. So if you were to drink heavy water,

0:40:19.120 --> 0:40:22.080
<v Speaker 1>it would not naturally be a radioactivity risk. It would

0:40:22.080 --> 0:40:24.799
<v Speaker 1>be this poisoning risk if you drank enough of it

0:40:24.880 --> 0:40:28.319
<v Speaker 1>and it replaced enough of the water in your body. Right,

0:40:28.480 --> 0:40:30.319
<v Speaker 1>And and that kind of brings us back to that

0:40:30.480 --> 0:40:33.760
<v Speaker 1>Velson uh q and a that was published in Slate

0:40:33.800 --> 0:40:36.680
<v Speaker 1>that I mentioned earlier. You know, you instantly replaced the

0:40:36.880 --> 0:40:41.240
<v Speaker 1>world's oceans with heavy water. Well, you have these immediate concerns,

0:40:41.239 --> 0:40:44.000
<v Speaker 1>but then obviously that water is going to make its

0:40:44.000 --> 0:40:47.920
<v Speaker 1>way into organisms, and so Velson writes, you know that

0:40:47.960 --> 0:40:52.080
<v Speaker 1>basically the biological concerns here would start out uh milder.

0:40:52.120 --> 0:40:53.880
<v Speaker 1>You know, it would be more about bloat and weight,

0:40:54.040 --> 0:40:57.000
<v Speaker 1>lower blood pressure. But by the time you reach like

0:40:57.040 --> 0:41:01.600
<v Speaker 1>the heavy water mark in particularly in humans, we would

0:41:01.640 --> 0:41:05.480
<v Speaker 1>be just irreversibly sterile. And then certainly by the time

0:41:05.480 --> 0:41:07.959
<v Speaker 1>you hit that fifty percent point, I mean, that's that's

0:41:08.000 --> 0:41:10.960
<v Speaker 1>definitely in the fatal zone. Uh So, you know, Velson

0:41:11.040 --> 0:41:14.959
<v Speaker 1>writes that, you know that heavy water makes eukaryotic cell

0:41:15.000 --> 0:41:19.640
<v Speaker 1>division impossible due to the impact on the my mitotic spindle,

0:41:19.920 --> 0:41:24.560
<v Speaker 1>so most multicellular eukaryotic life would just snuff it extinct

0:41:24.560 --> 0:41:27.359
<v Speaker 1>within a few years. Yeah, I was looking at some

0:41:27.360 --> 0:41:33.560
<v Speaker 1>some possible exceptions. There are interestingly, organisms that are heavy

0:41:33.600 --> 0:41:37.600
<v Speaker 1>water tolerant, or much more heavy water tolerant than other organisms.

0:41:37.600 --> 0:41:40.960
<v Speaker 1>So prokaryotes, I think, in general, are more tolerant of

0:41:40.960 --> 0:41:45.160
<v Speaker 1>of being exposed to deuturated water than eukaryotes are. Bacteria

0:41:45.239 --> 0:41:47.520
<v Speaker 1>are going to be better off, and maybe they could

0:41:47.520 --> 0:41:50.600
<v Speaker 1>just like you know, re evolve new complex life forms

0:41:50.640 --> 0:41:53.400
<v Speaker 1>in the h in the deutorated world. I wonder if

0:41:53.440 --> 0:41:55.960
<v Speaker 1>they would be like slower moving life forms because the

0:41:56.000 --> 0:41:59.680
<v Speaker 1>deutorated earth would just like have slower chemical reactions. And

0:41:59.760 --> 0:42:02.359
<v Speaker 1>jem Role well, you know, I did a lot. I

0:42:02.400 --> 0:42:04.520
<v Speaker 1>was thinking the same things. I was looking around a

0:42:04.520 --> 0:42:07.040
<v Speaker 1>lot to find some examples or you know, some sci

0:42:07.120 --> 0:42:11.719
<v Speaker 1>fi visions of what heavy water organisms might consist of,

0:42:12.280 --> 0:42:14.360
<v Speaker 1>and and I was not able to find anything. But

0:42:14.400 --> 0:42:18.560
<v Speaker 1>I did find some some stuff about the idea of

0:42:18.560 --> 0:42:21.799
<v Speaker 1>of of heavy water organisms that have would have would

0:42:21.840 --> 0:42:25.480
<v Speaker 1>be cultivated for their use in magnetic resonant studies, and

0:42:25.520 --> 0:42:28.399
<v Speaker 1>these were proposed back in the late nineteen sixties. These

0:42:28.400 --> 0:42:31.799
<v Speaker 1>would again be cultivated versions of natural world world organisms

0:42:31.840 --> 0:42:36.200
<v Speaker 1>that UM in their heavy form would not be found

0:42:36.239 --> 0:42:39.200
<v Speaker 1>anywhere in the natural world, so as proposed by Cats

0:42:39.200 --> 0:42:41.920
<v Speaker 1>and Crespy in us in the journal Science back in

0:42:42.000 --> 0:42:45.200
<v Speaker 1>nineteen sixty six. There are various uses and products one

0:42:45.200 --> 0:42:48.520
<v Speaker 1>could derive from their cultivation. Higher plants and even simple

0:42:48.680 --> 0:42:54.560
<v Speaker 1>organisms like you mentioned can resist full deuteration, but there

0:42:54.560 --> 0:42:57.040
<v Speaker 1>are possibilities for other life forms. So so some of

0:42:57.040 --> 0:42:59.480
<v Speaker 1>the main benefits here would be their use in studying

0:43:00.200 --> 0:43:03.440
<v Speaker 1>UM heavy water isotopes, you know, following the path of

0:43:03.520 --> 0:43:08.239
<v Speaker 1>hydrogen in biological systems. Deuterated algae, for instance, which we've

0:43:08.239 --> 0:43:10.680
<v Speaker 1>had since the nineteen sixties, have a useful role in

0:43:10.719 --> 0:43:14.440
<v Speaker 1>the study of photosynthesis. But um, yeah, I wish I

0:43:14.440 --> 0:43:16.520
<v Speaker 1>could have found something about like the idea of the

0:43:16.640 --> 0:43:21.399
<v Speaker 1>deuterated man heavy water heavy water elephants or something like that,

0:43:21.480 --> 0:43:24.200
<v Speaker 1>But I didn't find anything. That's how we get Middle Earth.

0:43:24.760 --> 0:43:29.120
<v Speaker 1>There's a sort of a chemical recycling event and and

0:43:29.120 --> 0:43:32.320
<v Speaker 1>and ended up there. Um. I did find one example

0:43:32.640 --> 0:43:34.520
<v Speaker 1>that I was looking at Apparently there's some kind of

0:43:34.600 --> 0:43:38.920
<v Speaker 1>nematode worm that can survive and reproduce in almost pure,

0:43:39.880 --> 0:43:44.440
<v Speaker 1>pure deuterated water. Interesting, there's always a worm. That should

0:43:44.440 --> 0:43:46.600
<v Speaker 1>be a slogan of this show. You know, whatever you're

0:43:46.600 --> 0:43:49.640
<v Speaker 1>saying about biology, it's like it's true in most cases,

0:43:49.680 --> 0:43:58.160
<v Speaker 1>but there's always a worm. Thank Now there's another way

0:43:58.200 --> 0:44:01.200
<v Speaker 1>that heavy water has been very important, and that's in

0:44:01.239 --> 0:44:04.960
<v Speaker 1>the history and development of nuclear technology and um, in

0:44:05.080 --> 0:44:08.280
<v Speaker 1>developing nuclear reactors and in the history of the development

0:44:08.280 --> 0:44:11.520
<v Speaker 1>of nuclear weapons. Yeah, this is all interesting, you know,

0:44:11.560 --> 0:44:14.759
<v Speaker 1>looking at the twentieth century certainly a time in which

0:44:14.760 --> 0:44:17.600
<v Speaker 1>our understanding of chemistry greatly evolved, and then of course

0:44:17.800 --> 0:44:21.560
<v Speaker 1>we began to understand uh, nuclear fission as well, and

0:44:21.680 --> 0:44:25.360
<v Speaker 1>scientists around this time, So nuclear fission, uh, this was

0:44:25.440 --> 0:44:29.600
<v Speaker 1>a discovered December of night. Around this time, scientists began

0:44:29.640 --> 0:44:32.239
<v Speaker 1>to realize that heavy water could be used as what

0:44:32.400 --> 0:44:36.680
<v Speaker 1>is called a moderator. So in nuclear reactors, a moderator

0:44:36.960 --> 0:44:41.839
<v Speaker 1>slows down the neutrons to speeds at which fission can occur. Uh.

0:44:41.880 --> 0:44:44.240
<v Speaker 1>It helps to create the conditions in which a true

0:44:44.280 --> 0:44:48.279
<v Speaker 1>fission chain reaction can occur and keep going. So a

0:44:48.360 --> 0:44:52.480
<v Speaker 1>nuclear reactor using heavy water can make use of naturally

0:44:52.520 --> 0:44:56.360
<v Speaker 1>occurring uranium rather than enriched in ranium, because again, you

0:44:56.360 --> 0:44:59.640
<v Speaker 1>can't just kick a bunch of naturally occurring uranium and

0:44:59.640 --> 0:45:03.880
<v Speaker 1>produce an atomic blast. So basically, uh, scientists in Germany

0:45:03.920 --> 0:45:06.480
<v Speaker 1>and in the UK they realized kind of early on

0:45:06.600 --> 0:45:10.320
<v Speaker 1>what heavy water could potentially do. Now, an interesting wrinkle

0:45:10.360 --> 0:45:13.840
<v Speaker 1>here is that the US atomic weapons program ended up

0:45:13.880 --> 0:45:17.200
<v Speaker 1>depending far more on graphite as a moderator than heavy water.

0:45:17.680 --> 0:45:20.440
<v Speaker 1>But the Germans came to believe that graphite wouldn't cut it,

0:45:20.480 --> 0:45:24.000
<v Speaker 1>so they focused on heavy water. UM heavy water was

0:45:24.000 --> 0:45:28.759
<v Speaker 1>obtained by um electrolysis, and a leading facility producing it

0:45:28.800 --> 0:45:32.840
<v Speaker 1>was Norway's of the Moor facility. So the French and

0:45:32.880 --> 0:45:36.160
<v Speaker 1>the Germans both attempted to buy the entire stock. I

0:45:36.200 --> 0:45:39.360
<v Speaker 1>think the Germans had purchased some, but then there uh

0:45:39.880 --> 0:45:41.600
<v Speaker 1>the French and the Germans both were like, we want

0:45:41.600 --> 0:45:45.560
<v Speaker 1>to buy it all, and aware of the military possibilities. Norway,

0:45:45.600 --> 0:45:48.400
<v Speaker 1>which was at that point neutral, sold it all to

0:45:48.440 --> 0:45:51.200
<v Speaker 1>France and and it was smuggled out of the country.

0:45:51.200 --> 0:45:56.600
<v Speaker 1>In that same year, however, the Germans took Norway and

0:45:56.680 --> 0:46:00.640
<v Speaker 1>the plant became a military target for the Allies because

0:46:00.640 --> 0:46:03.520
<v Speaker 1>of course, the whole situation here is it's suspected that

0:46:03.600 --> 0:46:07.719
<v Speaker 1>Germany is working on creating an atomic weapon, right, and

0:46:07.760 --> 0:46:10.520
<v Speaker 1>so the idea and they didn't know exactly how things

0:46:10.560 --> 0:46:12.960
<v Speaker 1>would shake out, but it looked at the time like

0:46:13.080 --> 0:46:16.920
<v Speaker 1>heavy water might be a really crucial element in achieving

0:46:17.000 --> 0:46:20.520
<v Speaker 1>nuclear weapons, right, and so there was obvious like terror

0:46:20.520 --> 0:46:22.600
<v Speaker 1>among the Allies that like, oh no, if they get

0:46:22.640 --> 0:46:25.080
<v Speaker 1>their hands on too much heavy water, they could build

0:46:25.120 --> 0:46:28.759
<v Speaker 1>a nuclear reactor that could potentially lead to weapons capabilities

0:46:28.880 --> 0:46:31.959
<v Speaker 1>or whatever before we achieve them. So it's it's again

0:46:32.000 --> 0:46:33.799
<v Speaker 1>it's a one ring scenario. It's like, you know, give

0:46:33.880 --> 0:46:38.000
<v Speaker 1>us the weapon of the enemy, don't let them have it, right, Yeah. So,

0:46:38.400 --> 0:46:41.760
<v Speaker 1>as a result, this facility was targeted five different times

0:46:42.200 --> 0:46:45.440
<v Speaker 1>um by the Norwegian Special Forces, by the r a F,

0:46:45.800 --> 0:46:48.160
<v Speaker 1>by the British Army, by the US Air Force, and

0:46:48.200 --> 0:46:51.360
<v Speaker 1>by the Norwegian Resistance. And these were efforts again to

0:46:51.400 --> 0:46:55.360
<v Speaker 1>try and prevent the Germans from developing an atomic weapon. UM.

0:46:55.640 --> 0:46:58.799
<v Speaker 1>Operation Gunner Side was a particular note in this one

0:46:58.880 --> 0:47:02.280
<v Speaker 1>for Norwegian age. It's parachuted into the area. They joined

0:47:02.360 --> 0:47:05.600
<v Speaker 1>up with four special agents of Special Forces agents that

0:47:05.640 --> 0:47:08.880
<v Speaker 1>had been deployed earlier on a recon miss mission, and

0:47:08.920 --> 0:47:12.000
<v Speaker 1>they all attacked the plant, destroying the heavy water section

0:47:12.040 --> 0:47:15.560
<v Speaker 1>of the plant and costing the Germans something like fives

0:47:15.560 --> 0:47:19.879
<v Speaker 1>of heavy water. I think these missions had no casualties. Also, well,

0:47:20.640 --> 0:47:24.000
<v Speaker 1>these two missions that I mentioned here had no casualties.

0:47:24.080 --> 0:47:28.440
<v Speaker 1>There was one of the attempts UM ended up involving

0:47:28.440 --> 0:47:31.320
<v Speaker 1>a plane crash and the the agents involved were executed

0:47:31.880 --> 0:47:36.000
<v Speaker 1>by the Germans. But but this particular mission, I think, yeah,

0:47:36.000 --> 0:47:39.040
<v Speaker 1>you're correct on UM. Now, it would ultimately turn out

0:47:39.080 --> 0:47:42.640
<v Speaker 1>that the Germans were not nearly as close as suspected UM,

0:47:42.680 --> 0:47:45.560
<v Speaker 1>but this certainly put a dent in their efforts. Basically,

0:47:46.120 --> 0:47:50.240
<v Speaker 1>the immediate demands of the war, combined with the efforts

0:47:50.560 --> 0:47:54.560
<v Speaker 1>by resistance and special forces here basically kept the nuclear

0:47:54.600 --> 0:47:58.200
<v Speaker 1>program of the of Germany in a kind of preliminary stage.

0:47:58.280 --> 0:48:01.480
<v Speaker 1>But of course the lies did not know this. They

0:48:01.520 --> 0:48:04.000
<v Speaker 1>just they just knew that some effort was underway and

0:48:04.040 --> 0:48:07.279
<v Speaker 1>it needed to be curved. Now, in more recent years,

0:48:07.320 --> 0:48:09.960
<v Speaker 1>there are all kinds of interesting uses that have been

0:48:09.960 --> 0:48:13.879
<v Speaker 1>discovered for deuterium and UH and heavy water that might

0:48:13.880 --> 0:48:16.400
<v Speaker 1>not have even been imagined early on, or maybe some

0:48:16.440 --> 0:48:18.600
<v Speaker 1>of which were imagined early on, but nobody knew if

0:48:18.600 --> 0:48:21.120
<v Speaker 1>they would ever be achieved. One of the examples that

0:48:21.120 --> 0:48:23.680
<v Speaker 1>I was just recently looking at is this interesting idea

0:48:23.760 --> 0:48:27.880
<v Speaker 1>of deuterated drugs, apparently the first one of which was

0:48:27.920 --> 0:48:31.080
<v Speaker 1>approved by the FDA in seventeen, but it's an idea

0:48:31.160 --> 0:48:33.799
<v Speaker 1>that's been around for a long time. Yeah, I think

0:48:33.840 --> 0:48:37.800
<v Speaker 1>the first patent was granted back in the nineteen seventies. Um,

0:48:37.840 --> 0:48:40.279
<v Speaker 1>so yeah, it's interesting. Now, before anyone assumes this has

0:48:40.320 --> 0:48:42.680
<v Speaker 1>anything to do with turning your water heavy or any

0:48:42.719 --> 0:48:46.960
<v Speaker 1>sort of thing, the basic idea of these, uh, deuterated

0:48:47.040 --> 0:48:50.120
<v Speaker 1>drugs is that the resulting drug has a longer half

0:48:50.200 --> 0:48:54.040
<v Speaker 1>life due to lower rates of metabolism. So half life

0:48:54.080 --> 0:48:56.640
<v Speaker 1>when we're talking about medication, it's it's the point at

0:48:56.640 --> 0:49:00.280
<v Speaker 1>which it loses fifty of its effectiveness inside your body.

0:49:00.320 --> 0:49:03.319
<v Speaker 1>So this isn't related to say, shelf life. Uh, it's

0:49:03.320 --> 0:49:06.399
<v Speaker 1>about how the drug functions in the body itself, right,

0:49:06.440 --> 0:49:09.480
<v Speaker 1>so it can like act more slowly over a longer

0:49:09.560 --> 0:49:14.399
<v Speaker 1>period of time. Um. And it's funny because we've talked

0:49:14.400 --> 0:49:17.640
<v Speaker 1>about several different ways now essentially one of the ways

0:49:17.760 --> 0:49:20.560
<v Speaker 1>that deuterated water will kill you if you drink too

0:49:20.640 --> 0:49:23.800
<v Speaker 1>much of it, is it slows down metabolism and chemical

0:49:23.840 --> 0:49:26.479
<v Speaker 1>reactions cell division in your body to a point where

0:49:26.520 --> 0:49:31.400
<v Speaker 1>you can't survive anymore. But there are more moderated forms

0:49:31.560 --> 0:49:35.600
<v Speaker 1>of consuming heavy water that people have long speculated, whether

0:49:35.760 --> 0:49:38.040
<v Speaker 1>rightly or not, I mean, this is still an open

0:49:38.120 --> 0:49:40.880
<v Speaker 1>question as to whether there's anything to these ideas, but

0:49:41.040 --> 0:49:44.319
<v Speaker 1>have speculated that, well, maybe you could use this to

0:49:44.480 --> 0:49:48.000
<v Speaker 1>slow down chemical reactions in the body in a good way,

0:49:48.160 --> 0:49:51.760
<v Speaker 1>in a way that's actually desirable, such as in life

0:49:51.800 --> 0:49:55.520
<v Speaker 1>extension or you know, human hibernation or things like that.

0:49:56.239 --> 0:50:00.320
<v Speaker 1>So I wanted to read apart from in Franceles article

0:50:00.360 --> 0:50:03.319
<v Speaker 1>where she says, quote mounta Banks have been promoting heavy

0:50:03.320 --> 0:50:06.000
<v Speaker 1>water as a panacea almost since the moment you're re

0:50:06.160 --> 0:50:10.160
<v Speaker 1>isolated the first sample. Even imminent chemists have not been immune.

0:50:10.400 --> 0:50:13.680
<v Speaker 1>In a nineteen thirty seven Popular Science article, chemists James

0:50:13.760 --> 0:50:17.560
<v Speaker 1>Kendall opined that the elderly might extend their lives by

0:50:17.640 --> 0:50:21.719
<v Speaker 1>drinking heavy water. Quote the heavy water drinkers reactions would

0:50:21.760 --> 0:50:25.719
<v Speaker 1>probably be slowed and possibly his mental processes also. But

0:50:25.800 --> 0:50:30.200
<v Speaker 1>who wants to be fast at sixty? Well, I mean,

0:50:30.239 --> 0:50:33.759
<v Speaker 1>I guess you know, sixty was a different sixty seven,

0:50:33.840 --> 0:50:39.040
<v Speaker 1>I guess. But so the idea here is just don't

0:50:39.120 --> 0:50:41.440
<v Speaker 1>drink too much of it, drink a balance of it,

0:50:41.520 --> 0:50:43.400
<v Speaker 1>and you'll be okay. It's kind of a never finish

0:50:43.600 --> 0:50:47.520
<v Speaker 1>your second drink approach to life. Yes, now, I want

0:50:47.520 --> 0:50:50.400
<v Speaker 1>to be extremely clear, we are not advocating that anyone

0:50:50.440 --> 0:50:53.080
<v Speaker 1>do this or claiming that this would be effective. But

0:50:53.600 --> 0:50:56.760
<v Speaker 1>it is something that people have continued to speculate about.

0:50:56.800 --> 0:51:01.160
<v Speaker 1>So that one article that Francill princes in her article

0:51:01.480 --> 0:51:04.239
<v Speaker 1>is by A. Zion Lee and Michael P. Snyder and

0:51:04.280 --> 0:51:07.839
<v Speaker 1>bio Essays in sixteen that is a it's a speculative

0:51:07.920 --> 0:51:11.440
<v Speaker 1>article that explores this question. It's called quote can heavy

0:51:11.440 --> 0:51:16.240
<v Speaker 1>isotopes increased lifespan? Studies of relative abundance and various organisms

0:51:16.320 --> 0:51:19.920
<v Speaker 1>reveal chemical perspectives on aging. Now they site again some

0:51:19.960 --> 0:51:22.320
<v Speaker 1>of the same stuff we've been talking about, the the

0:51:22.640 --> 0:51:27.200
<v Speaker 1>chemistry of the kinetic isotope effects which slow down chemical reactions.

0:51:27.280 --> 0:51:30.640
<v Speaker 1>And this sort of slows down all kinds of processes

0:51:30.680 --> 0:51:32.600
<v Speaker 1>that happen in the body that are in a way

0:51:32.640 --> 0:51:35.880
<v Speaker 1>that they are metabolic processes that are associated with the

0:51:35.920 --> 0:51:39.239
<v Speaker 1>advancing of age. And so the authors here right quote.

0:51:39.239 --> 0:51:43.480
<v Speaker 1>Previous isotope analyses have recorded pervasive enrichment or depletion of

0:51:43.520 --> 0:51:47.719
<v Speaker 1>heavy isotopes in various organisms, strongly supporting the capability of

0:51:47.719 --> 0:51:52.280
<v Speaker 1>biological systems to distinguish different isotopes. This capability has recently

0:51:52.280 --> 0:51:55.200
<v Speaker 1>been found to lead to general decline of heavy isotopes

0:51:55.239 --> 0:52:00.719
<v Speaker 1>in metabolites during yeast aging. Conversely, supplementing heavy isotopes in

0:52:00.800 --> 0:52:05.520
<v Speaker 1>growth medium promotes longevity. Whether this observation prevails in other

0:52:05.640 --> 0:52:08.560
<v Speaker 1>organisms is not known, but it potentially bears promise in

0:52:08.640 --> 0:52:13.040
<v Speaker 1>promoting human longevity. So some of the ideas explored here.

0:52:13.200 --> 0:52:16.440
<v Speaker 1>The implications would be that you could possibly ingest certain

0:52:16.480 --> 0:52:20.400
<v Speaker 1>amounts of heavy water to trigger um UH to trigger

0:52:20.480 --> 0:52:23.040
<v Speaker 1>a sort of state of hibernation, which could be useful

0:52:23.080 --> 0:52:26.080
<v Speaker 1>and say like interstellar travel. France Will points that out

0:52:26.760 --> 0:52:31.319
<v Speaker 1>um but also as summarized by France Will, basically their

0:52:31.320 --> 0:52:35.000
<v Speaker 1>observation is that quote. Yeast models have showed that heavier isotopes,

0:52:35.040 --> 0:52:39.960
<v Speaker 1>including deuterium, become depleted in organisms with aging. They suggested

0:52:40.000 --> 0:52:45.000
<v Speaker 1>as possible that periodically supplementing the diet with appropriate isotopeologus

0:52:45.320 --> 0:52:48.640
<v Speaker 1>could extend human lifespans. So if like you tend to

0:52:48.719 --> 0:52:52.400
<v Speaker 1>lose deuterium as you get older, maybe supplementing the body

0:52:52.480 --> 0:52:54.439
<v Speaker 1>with some some you know, a little bit of extra

0:52:54.480 --> 0:52:57.239
<v Speaker 1>heavy water, a little bit of extra deuterium might do

0:52:57.320 --> 0:53:02.040
<v Speaker 1>you some good. Again, totally speculative, proven, but there are

0:53:02.080 --> 0:53:05.440
<v Speaker 1>there are some interesting tidbits and other organisms that suggests

0:53:05.520 --> 0:53:09.560
<v Speaker 1>the possibility here. Huh. So in the future, the idea

0:53:09.560 --> 0:53:12.920
<v Speaker 1>of say, heavy water supplements are possible, even if you

0:53:13.000 --> 0:53:15.120
<v Speaker 1>end up having to buy them from Goop as opposed

0:53:15.120 --> 0:53:18.320
<v Speaker 1>to her anywhere else, right, I mean, I guess the

0:53:18.400 --> 0:53:20.319
<v Speaker 1>question would be like, is this gonna end up being

0:53:20.360 --> 0:53:22.680
<v Speaker 1>science based medicine or is this going to end up

0:53:22.719 --> 0:53:25.799
<v Speaker 1>being some some pseudo scientific miracle cure hawked on, you

0:53:25.840 --> 0:53:29.680
<v Speaker 1>know whatever conspiracy theory show. Um, But either way you're

0:53:29.719 --> 0:53:32.120
<v Speaker 1>it's going to be for sale. Now. An interesting thing

0:53:32.160 --> 0:53:35.880
<v Speaker 1>I ran across Joe was that um, apparently by by

0:53:35.920 --> 0:53:37.600
<v Speaker 1>you can look at Mars, and by looking at the

0:53:37.719 --> 0:53:42.280
<v Speaker 1>ratio between deodded water and normal water on Mars, scientists

0:53:42.320 --> 0:53:44.359
<v Speaker 1>are able to get a better picture of how much

0:53:44.440 --> 0:53:48.160
<v Speaker 1>water Mars lost in the past. So basically, the more

0:53:48.239 --> 0:53:51.640
<v Speaker 1>heavy water present, which is harder to lose than the

0:53:51.680 --> 0:53:54.200
<v Speaker 1>more water you lost over time. So to come back

0:53:54.200 --> 0:53:58.000
<v Speaker 1>to that idea of like heavy nickels and normal nickels

0:53:58.200 --> 0:54:02.000
<v Speaker 1>in your like personal Scrooge a duck bank, if you

0:54:02.040 --> 0:54:05.799
<v Speaker 1>were afraid that lepricns were stealing your nickels and lepricns

0:54:05.920 --> 0:54:10.399
<v Speaker 1>are incapable of carrying them the heavier heavy nickels, then

0:54:10.440 --> 0:54:13.080
<v Speaker 1>you could go to your Scrooge McDuck vault and you

0:54:13.120 --> 0:54:16.239
<v Speaker 1>look in there and you count the heavy nickels, and

0:54:16.320 --> 0:54:19.719
<v Speaker 1>you could you could determine how many normal nickels have

0:54:19.840 --> 0:54:24.160
<v Speaker 1>been stolen by lepricns based on the resulting ratio. That's

0:54:24.160 --> 0:54:26.440
<v Speaker 1>really cool, and I love your analogy, by the way,

0:54:26.760 --> 0:54:29.520
<v Speaker 1>but this does highlight the way that even if it

0:54:29.600 --> 0:54:32.440
<v Speaker 1>turns out that you know, deuturated water is not going

0:54:32.520 --> 0:54:35.560
<v Speaker 1>to extend human lifespans or anything like that, I think

0:54:36.040 --> 0:54:42.879
<v Speaker 1>deuterium and heavy water will absolutely remain extremely important scientific

0:54:42.920 --> 0:54:45.440
<v Speaker 1>atoms and molecules for for research because there are a

0:54:45.480 --> 0:54:48.080
<v Speaker 1>secondary indicator of all kinds of things. You can find

0:54:48.120 --> 0:54:51.120
<v Speaker 1>out a lot about the world by looking at at

0:54:51.160 --> 0:54:54.719
<v Speaker 1>heavy water content and how it behaves. Yeah, I just

0:54:54.840 --> 0:54:57.360
<v Speaker 1>wish I could have found a heavy water alien. I

0:54:57.520 --> 0:55:00.399
<v Speaker 1>really wanted to find some somebody talking about heavy water

0:55:00.520 --> 0:55:04.080
<v Speaker 1>aliens and heavy water people. So well, hey, that's that's

0:55:04.520 --> 0:55:08.239
<v Speaker 1>open field. Somebody somebody set up a homestead there. Yeah, yeah,

0:55:08.280 --> 0:55:11.239
<v Speaker 1>somebody right about it. Now. The one thing that is

0:55:11.360 --> 0:55:14.040
<v Speaker 1>kind of related to all this in science fiction is

0:55:14.080 --> 0:55:18.200
<v Speaker 1>that you have had some some some science fiction writers

0:55:18.320 --> 0:55:22.160
<v Speaker 1>who have dealt with various proposed alternate versions of water.

0:55:22.280 --> 0:55:26.399
<v Speaker 1>So author and National geographic journalist Robert C. O'Brien, who

0:55:26.440 --> 0:55:30.200
<v Speaker 1>lived nineteen eighteen through nineteen seventy three, uh, most famous

0:55:30.520 --> 0:55:33.080
<v Speaker 1>as being the author of Miss Frisbee and the Rats

0:55:33.080 --> 0:55:36.560
<v Speaker 1>of Nim, wrote in nineteen seventy two novel titled a

0:55:36.680 --> 0:55:39.759
<v Speaker 1>Report from Group seventeen, and it had a lot to

0:55:39.800 --> 0:55:42.600
<v Speaker 1>do with Nazi plots and a form of water that

0:55:42.719 --> 0:55:47.200
<v Speaker 1>essentially brainwashes individuals. So heavy water apparently might have played

0:55:47.200 --> 0:55:51.000
<v Speaker 1>a role in this idea along with this concept of

0:55:51.040 --> 0:55:56.400
<v Speaker 1>polly water. This was a hypothesized, uh, polymerized form of water.

0:55:56.760 --> 0:55:59.000
<v Speaker 1>They would have been kind of like a syrup, you know, again,

0:55:59.280 --> 0:56:04.280
<v Speaker 1>more viscous. It doesn't actually exist, but it also infloy

0:56:04.400 --> 0:56:08.640
<v Speaker 1>the idea that also influenced Kurt Vonneket's Ice nine concept

0:56:08.680 --> 0:56:11.600
<v Speaker 1>and Cat's Cradle. Oh yeah, and for those not familiar.

0:56:11.640 --> 0:56:14.160
<v Speaker 1>Ice nine one of the great plot devices of all time.

0:56:14.239 --> 0:56:17.960
<v Speaker 1>It's a it's an alternate form of the water molecule

0:56:18.120 --> 0:56:21.040
<v Speaker 1>that freezes at room temperature, and it can act as

0:56:21.040 --> 0:56:24.200
<v Speaker 1>a seed crystal. So basically the premises you drop this

0:56:24.239 --> 0:56:27.280
<v Speaker 1>in a lake and suddenly the entire lake will freeze

0:56:27.280 --> 0:56:33.480
<v Speaker 1>at room temperature. It's bad. It's bad, and it doesn't exist. Uh,

0:56:33.920 --> 0:56:36.920
<v Speaker 1>unlike heavy water, which is which does exist and is

0:56:37.040 --> 0:56:40.520
<v Speaker 1>in you right now. Yeah, that's the interesting thing. Um,

0:56:40.560 --> 0:56:43.480
<v Speaker 1>it's weird how reading about this. Uh, And I keep

0:56:43.520 --> 0:56:47.120
<v Speaker 1>thinking about heavy water holding these uh opposing ideas in

0:56:47.120 --> 0:56:48.560
<v Speaker 1>my head at the same time. I guess it's like

0:56:48.560 --> 0:56:51.759
<v Speaker 1>an exercise in scientific negative capability, because I keep thinking

0:56:51.760 --> 0:56:55.719
<v Speaker 1>of heavy water simultaneously as something that's natural, found in

0:56:55.760 --> 0:56:58.080
<v Speaker 1>all the oceans of the world. It's in your body

0:56:58.160 --> 0:57:00.960
<v Speaker 1>right now. It's gonna be harmless at the levels that

0:57:01.040 --> 0:57:05.319
<v Speaker 1>you ingested, but also is like a horrific poison, if

0:57:05.520 --> 0:57:08.279
<v Speaker 1>you know, if ingested in the wrong way. Yeah, I mean,

0:57:08.360 --> 0:57:09.920
<v Speaker 1>of course we have we often have to think about

0:57:09.920 --> 0:57:12.160
<v Speaker 1>that in terms of a lot of different things, including

0:57:12.200 --> 0:57:16.120
<v Speaker 1>just normal water, right I mean, um, as well as

0:57:16.160 --> 0:57:21.040
<v Speaker 1>like various household spices, um, you know, moderation and all things, right,

0:57:21.080 --> 0:57:23.640
<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's what holds the world together, holds their

0:57:23.680 --> 0:57:26.720
<v Speaker 1>bodies together, just dealing with without any you know, ethical

0:57:26.760 --> 0:57:29.600
<v Speaker 1>interpretations of the statement like there is a there is

0:57:29.640 --> 0:57:32.440
<v Speaker 1>a balance. There's a chemical balance in all things. And

0:57:32.480 --> 0:57:34.040
<v Speaker 1>that's kind of I mean, that's kind of one of

0:57:34.080 --> 0:57:36.760
<v Speaker 1>the big take homes of the chemical revolution. In addition

0:57:36.800 --> 0:57:39.640
<v Speaker 1>to you know, developing all these chemicals of life and

0:57:39.680 --> 0:57:43.200
<v Speaker 1>then also these chemicals of death during the twentieth century,

0:57:43.560 --> 0:57:46.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, just are are are sudden you know, increasing

0:57:47.000 --> 0:57:49.600
<v Speaker 1>understanding of just all of these little bonds that hold

0:57:49.640 --> 0:57:54.560
<v Speaker 1>us together. Extremely good point. One less thing I'll just

0:57:54.600 --> 0:57:58.040
<v Speaker 1>say again, don't start buying heavy water for life extension

0:57:58.120 --> 0:58:01.840
<v Speaker 1>unless it's actually backed up by science. Correct check the

0:58:01.880 --> 0:58:07.480
<v Speaker 1>research on that. All right, Well, again, we would love

0:58:07.480 --> 0:58:09.680
<v Speaker 1>to hear from everyone out there about heavy water. If

0:58:09.680 --> 0:58:12.240
<v Speaker 1>you have any experience with heavy water, thoughts on heavy water,

0:58:12.880 --> 0:58:15.240
<v Speaker 1>or indeed have you if you have read science fiction

0:58:15.440 --> 0:58:19.440
<v Speaker 1>or had any kind of science fiction based thoughts around

0:58:19.480 --> 0:58:22.240
<v Speaker 1>heavy water organisms, we would love to hear from you.

0:58:22.400 --> 0:58:23.760
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