1 00:00:04,078 --> 00:00:06,518 Speaker 1: The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of My 2 00:00:06,718 --> 00:00:16,518 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to the Book of Joe Podcast. 3 00:00:16,598 --> 00:00:19,238 Speaker 1: Of course, it's the same name as the Great Book, 4 00:00:19,518 --> 00:00:22,918 Speaker 1: The Book of Joe, written by me, Tom Verducci and 5 00:00:23,598 --> 00:00:27,118 Speaker 1: Joe Madden. Joe, how you doing. I'm doing great, Timmy, 6 00:00:27,118 --> 00:00:29,918 Speaker 1: how are you? I'm great? We got a World Series set. 7 00:00:30,118 --> 00:00:33,958 Speaker 1: It's the Philadelphia Phillies, the last team into the dance, 8 00:00:34,038 --> 00:00:36,158 Speaker 1: by the way, the number six seed in the National 9 00:00:36,238 --> 00:00:39,678 Speaker 1: League against the number one seed from the American League, 10 00:00:39,718 --> 00:00:41,678 Speaker 1: the Houston Astros. This is gonna be a whole lot 11 00:00:41,718 --> 00:00:44,278 Speaker 1: of fun. I agree. Um, you know, from the beginning 12 00:00:44,318 --> 00:00:46,198 Speaker 1: we were talking, I did like Houston a lot because 13 00:00:46,358 --> 00:00:49,918 Speaker 1: primarily because of their pitching, and I still do. I 14 00:00:48,998 --> 00:00:52,078 Speaker 1: m I liked their offense or some nice offensive pieces. 15 00:00:52,078 --> 00:00:54,518 Speaker 1: They're really good offensive pieces, but for the most part 16 00:00:55,038 --> 00:00:58,198 Speaker 1: they pull out like a Christian Javier. They didn't even 17 00:00:58,278 --> 00:01:01,198 Speaker 1: use Garcia. I don't think, um they had others. I mean, 18 00:01:01,238 --> 00:01:04,478 Speaker 1: they just they're so deep with their pitching, not only 19 00:01:04,638 --> 00:01:06,278 Speaker 1: deep in the fact that they got good arms with 20 00:01:06,318 --> 00:01:08,998 Speaker 1: these guys performed too, so they're just a different animal. 21 00:01:09,718 --> 00:01:11,838 Speaker 1: On the other hand, the Phillies, I got a lot. 22 00:01:11,918 --> 00:01:13,438 Speaker 1: I got a lot of time invested with a lot 23 00:01:13,478 --> 00:01:15,958 Speaker 1: of people there, and I've been really watching that closely 24 00:01:15,998 --> 00:01:20,558 Speaker 1: and carefully. Uh, if momentum means anything, momentum counts, of 25 00:01:20,598 --> 00:01:22,678 Speaker 1: a vibe counts. They've got it going on right now, 26 00:01:22,718 --> 00:01:25,078 Speaker 1: and I believe in that kind of stuff. So they're 27 00:01:25,078 --> 00:01:26,918 Speaker 1: gonna come in there a bunch of loose cannons. They're 28 00:01:26,918 --> 00:01:28,758 Speaker 1: the underdogs. They have nothing to lose, kind of a 29 00:01:29,558 --> 00:01:32,478 Speaker 1: you know, like the Cavalier three musketeer kind of an attitude. 30 00:01:32,518 --> 00:01:33,878 Speaker 1: So I think you're gonna see a lot of the same. 31 00:01:33,918 --> 00:01:37,238 Speaker 1: They're not gonna cower. Schwarbs is going to be himself. 32 00:01:37,318 --> 00:01:42,198 Speaker 1: He's fearless, obviously, Harps fearless, Um Real Moodo is one 33 00:01:42,198 --> 00:01:46,238 Speaker 1: of my favorite players. Um and Nikki Castiano's heads up. 34 00:01:46,718 --> 00:01:48,558 Speaker 1: He's just started hitting balls down the line and in 35 00:01:48,598 --> 00:01:50,598 Speaker 1: gaps over the last couple of days, and that's who 36 00:01:50,598 --> 00:01:53,758 Speaker 1: he is. So it's gonna be interesting. But I do 37 00:01:53,838 --> 00:01:56,518 Speaker 1: like the Philly vibe right now. Oh yeah. It reminds 38 00:01:56,518 --> 00:01:59,278 Speaker 1: me of a college team in Omaha. They're playing with 39 00:01:59,358 --> 00:02:02,558 Speaker 1: that much energy. It's been fun to watch this Philly group. 40 00:02:03,158 --> 00:02:05,798 Speaker 1: All the pressure came off when they got into the postseason. 41 00:02:05,918 --> 00:02:08,198 Speaker 1: Remember the whole narrative on the Phillies the last few 42 00:02:08,278 --> 00:02:11,238 Speaker 1: years is they collapse in September, and it was there 43 00:02:11,318 --> 00:02:13,758 Speaker 1: this year every time they lost to say a second 44 00:02:13,758 --> 00:02:15,718 Speaker 1: game in a row. But they put that to bed, 45 00:02:15,758 --> 00:02:17,958 Speaker 1: and I see them playing with so much freedom now 46 00:02:17,958 --> 00:02:20,198 Speaker 1: that they got rid of that. I want to devote 47 00:02:20,198 --> 00:02:24,358 Speaker 1: some time here entirely to Bryce Harper because he's been 48 00:02:24,398 --> 00:02:26,638 Speaker 1: the story of this postseason for me, when you have 49 00:02:26,678 --> 00:02:31,158 Speaker 1: a great player playing at his ceiling in the biggest moments, 50 00:02:31,518 --> 00:02:34,158 Speaker 1: My goodness, the home run he hit in the clinching game, 51 00:02:34,238 --> 00:02:37,118 Speaker 1: Game five, eighth inning, down run of run he hits 52 00:02:37,118 --> 00:02:40,318 Speaker 1: the pennant winning home run. Man, I go back to 53 00:02:41,198 --> 00:02:44,878 Speaker 1: either Carlton fisk and seventy five or Kirby Puckett ninety one, 54 00:02:44,998 --> 00:02:48,878 Speaker 1: because we're talking about a great player hitting a historic 55 00:02:48,958 --> 00:02:52,958 Speaker 1: home run in a great moment. It doesn't happen that often, folks, 56 00:02:53,038 --> 00:02:56,158 Speaker 1: where that the stars really shine in such a big moment. 57 00:02:56,758 --> 00:02:59,558 Speaker 1: Let's talk about how he got there, because I love 58 00:02:59,638 --> 00:03:02,558 Speaker 1: the managing decisions Joe that go into the postseason. To me, 59 00:03:02,638 --> 00:03:04,638 Speaker 1: you've got a couple of ways you can go running 60 00:03:04,638 --> 00:03:07,718 Speaker 1: a postseason game you can go for the kill the 61 00:03:07,718 --> 00:03:11,238 Speaker 1: way that Rob Thompson did. I thought throughout that series 62 00:03:11,878 --> 00:03:14,718 Speaker 1: very aggressively. Now it might burn you sometimes when you 63 00:03:14,758 --> 00:03:17,998 Speaker 1: go to your big bullpen pieces early, but here was 64 00:03:18,038 --> 00:03:21,118 Speaker 1: a guy who closed the game with Rangers Suarez right, 65 00:03:21,198 --> 00:03:23,438 Speaker 1: so he wasn't afraid to go for the kill. Bob 66 00:03:23,478 --> 00:03:26,398 Speaker 1: Melvin a little bit more, I would say traditional, running 67 00:03:26,438 --> 00:03:29,478 Speaker 1: the game as you would in the regular season. This 68 00:03:29,558 --> 00:03:32,438 Speaker 1: is the image that to me, the Padres have to 69 00:03:32,478 --> 00:03:35,998 Speaker 1: live with all winter. They had Robert Suarez on the mount, 70 00:03:36,038 --> 00:03:40,398 Speaker 1: a right hander pitching to Bryce Harper with the season 71 00:03:40,438 --> 00:03:43,118 Speaker 1: on the line, and Josh Hayter was throwing to the 72 00:03:43,158 --> 00:03:47,118 Speaker 1: bullpen catcher in the bullpen. To me, I you go 73 00:03:47,238 --> 00:03:50,998 Speaker 1: to Hater there. I actually sent Ken Rosenthal, my Fox colleague, 74 00:03:50,998 --> 00:03:54,278 Speaker 1: a text before that inning saying, this entire ball game 75 00:03:54,358 --> 00:03:56,838 Speaker 1: comes down to Bryce Harper's at bat. You have to 76 00:03:56,878 --> 00:04:00,118 Speaker 1: have Hater on Harper. That's the game. I don't want 77 00:04:00,358 --> 00:04:02,438 Speaker 1: Hater pitching to the bottom of the lineup. I want 78 00:04:02,478 --> 00:04:07,118 Speaker 1: him on Harper. Listen. Bob Melvin, in his defense, says, hey, listen, Suarez, 79 00:04:07,158 --> 00:04:08,678 Speaker 1: one of our guys hasn't a lot of home run 80 00:04:08,718 --> 00:04:11,998 Speaker 1: to a Lefty all year. I get it. Bryce harper 81 00:04:12,038 --> 00:04:15,758 Speaker 1: Man is just too hot. I'm circling his name every 82 00:04:15,798 --> 00:04:19,118 Speaker 1: time I'm playing the Phillies and saying that guy ain't 83 00:04:19,158 --> 00:04:22,238 Speaker 1: beating us. So not so much a second guest, Joe. 84 00:04:22,278 --> 00:04:25,438 Speaker 1: But it's more like the pressure a manager has to 85 00:04:25,558 --> 00:04:28,718 Speaker 1: have in running a postseason game and knowing you have 86 00:04:28,958 --> 00:04:32,518 Speaker 1: multiple outs to cover late. What's your thoughts on that? Yeah, 87 00:04:32,518 --> 00:04:34,238 Speaker 1: and that's why we've talked about it. You really have 88 00:04:34,358 --> 00:04:36,958 Speaker 1: to play that game before, before it ever occurs. You 89 00:04:36,998 --> 00:04:39,758 Speaker 1: have to conclude before the games that we get to 90 00:04:39,798 --> 00:04:42,838 Speaker 1: this particular spot, this is what I'm gonna do. Um. 91 00:04:43,038 --> 00:04:46,918 Speaker 1: That's I'm just giving my own methods, so um he 92 00:04:46,918 --> 00:04:50,638 Speaker 1: he uh bow Mel. In that situation, I want to 93 00:04:50,638 --> 00:04:52,918 Speaker 1: believe that he had played that out beforehand. I also 94 00:04:52,958 --> 00:04:55,718 Speaker 1: believe in his defense, I still think he was thinking 95 00:04:55,798 --> 00:04:58,158 Speaker 1: about all the games that needed to be one afterwards, 96 00:04:58,158 --> 00:05:01,958 Speaker 1: and he was probably worried a concern about using Hayter 97 00:05:02,118 --> 00:05:04,438 Speaker 1: too off and down the stretch right there that it 98 00:05:04,438 --> 00:05:07,758 Speaker 1: wouldn't play out. Um. I get that. I get that. 99 00:05:07,798 --> 00:05:10,278 Speaker 1: The other point is that three batter minimum kind of 100 00:05:10,318 --> 00:05:11,958 Speaker 1: gets in the way right there, which you may have 101 00:05:11,998 --> 00:05:14,358 Speaker 1: traditionally done. Meaning I don't even know if there was 102 00:05:14,358 --> 00:05:16,238 Speaker 1: a left the available to him at that point out 103 00:05:16,238 --> 00:05:18,118 Speaker 1: of the bullpen other than hater, but you could have 104 00:05:18,158 --> 00:05:20,798 Speaker 1: matched it up there and try to get through that moment, 105 00:05:20,878 --> 00:05:24,318 Speaker 1: say hater for later. But when at three batter minimum 106 00:05:24,358 --> 00:05:26,198 Speaker 1: you do hold your breath. There's times you have to 107 00:05:26,198 --> 00:05:29,318 Speaker 1: hold your breath because there's situations you don't like. Having 108 00:05:29,318 --> 00:05:33,078 Speaker 1: said all that, I know what you're talking about. That's 109 00:05:33,118 --> 00:05:36,318 Speaker 1: the spot, that's the man that's Harper. And when you're 110 00:05:36,358 --> 00:05:38,758 Speaker 1: down and there's no game tomorrow, if you don't win 111 00:05:38,838 --> 00:05:41,198 Speaker 1: today's game, then all this other stuff goes away, and 112 00:05:41,198 --> 00:05:44,358 Speaker 1: you have to really play it more aggressively than other times, because, 113 00:05:44,398 --> 00:05:45,758 Speaker 1: after all, you win that game, you don't even know 114 00:05:45,758 --> 00:05:47,118 Speaker 1: what the game is gonna look like too, Mark. It 115 00:05:47,118 --> 00:05:49,438 Speaker 1: could be tent to padres or it could be tent 116 00:05:49,518 --> 00:05:52,478 Speaker 1: to phillies, and it's it's a mood point either way. 117 00:05:52,558 --> 00:05:55,718 Speaker 1: So yeah, I agree, you have to play that game 118 00:05:56,318 --> 00:05:58,278 Speaker 1: as though it is the last game of the year potentially, 119 00:05:58,278 --> 00:06:00,678 Speaker 1: and it is and it was, so there's there's a 120 00:06:00,718 --> 00:06:02,878 Speaker 1: lot of stuff going on in the manager's head right there, 121 00:06:02,878 --> 00:06:05,598 Speaker 1: and I'm obviously justing is that the three batter minimum 122 00:06:05,998 --> 00:06:07,718 Speaker 1: may have something to do with that, where you can't 123 00:06:07,758 --> 00:06:09,638 Speaker 1: match up that early because you don't want Hayter in 124 00:06:09,678 --> 00:06:12,198 Speaker 1: that sooner that long, and then the fact that you 125 00:06:12,238 --> 00:06:14,238 Speaker 1: have to win several more games to actually win it. 126 00:06:14,358 --> 00:06:18,158 Speaker 1: Also you're trying to parcel your pieces out. So again 127 00:06:18,278 --> 00:06:20,398 Speaker 1: we've talked about it before we went on air with this, 128 00:06:20,758 --> 00:06:23,958 Speaker 1: there's choices that have to be made. Um, I'd like 129 00:06:23,998 --> 00:06:27,078 Speaker 1: the aggressive approach in the postseason. We've talked about that, 130 00:06:27,518 --> 00:06:29,758 Speaker 1: and you really have to conventional wisdom has to be 131 00:06:29,838 --> 00:06:32,078 Speaker 1: dammed at that point. He just got to go for it. Yeah, 132 00:06:32,118 --> 00:06:33,838 Speaker 1: it's a good point you make about the three batter 133 00:06:33,918 --> 00:06:36,478 Speaker 1: minimum rule because a few years ago, Bob Melvin could 134 00:06:36,518 --> 00:06:39,318 Speaker 1: have used Tim Hill on Bryce harper situational left and 135 00:06:39,438 --> 00:06:40,798 Speaker 1: got him out of the game and then got to 136 00:06:40,838 --> 00:06:43,878 Speaker 1: a right hander on Costodiamo's behind him. Can't do that 137 00:06:43,918 --> 00:06:46,958 Speaker 1: in today's game. And he did want to limit Josh 138 00:06:46,998 --> 00:06:49,318 Speaker 1: Hayder to no more than say, four out, so he 139 00:06:49,438 --> 00:06:52,478 Speaker 1: was hoping that Swore has got him there. But again, 140 00:06:52,918 --> 00:06:56,198 Speaker 1: you've got to control Bryce Harper. I mean, listen, Josh 141 00:06:56,238 --> 00:07:00,198 Speaker 1: Hayder did not pitch in Philadelphia at all. And the 142 00:07:00,238 --> 00:07:04,038 Speaker 1: Padres lost three straight games. Josh Hayder pitched a three 143 00:07:04,078 --> 00:07:06,798 Speaker 1: batters in that series, three batters, and it was the 144 00:07:06,878 --> 00:07:10,598 Speaker 1: number six, seven, and eight hitters in the Philadelphia lineup, 145 00:07:10,838 --> 00:07:12,758 Speaker 1: so he never matched up against the heart of the 146 00:07:12,758 --> 00:07:16,598 Speaker 1: Philadelphia order. Uh and he came in actually left going 147 00:07:16,638 --> 00:07:19,678 Speaker 1: home with striking out eight consecutive batters, the only picture 148 00:07:19,718 --> 00:07:22,358 Speaker 1: in postseason history to do that. I just think you 149 00:07:22,358 --> 00:07:24,478 Speaker 1: have a weapon like that, you have to deploy it 150 00:07:24,518 --> 00:07:26,078 Speaker 1: when the game is on the line. And I saw 151 00:07:26,158 --> 00:07:30,438 Speaker 1: Rob Thompson do that by going to Dominguez and Alvarado early. 152 00:07:30,918 --> 00:07:33,598 Speaker 1: To me, Thompson won that series because he never gave 153 00:07:33,638 --> 00:07:36,278 Speaker 1: a comfortable at bat to Juan Soto and Manny Machado. 154 00:07:36,358 --> 00:07:39,598 Speaker 1: The whole series pivoted around that. And Joe brings me back, 155 00:07:39,798 --> 00:07:42,038 Speaker 1: and I'm sure you remember this to you managing the 156 00:07:42,078 --> 00:07:45,918 Speaker 1: Cubs in sixteen, when a red hot Bryce Harper walks 157 00:07:45,958 --> 00:07:49,878 Speaker 1: in to Wrigley Field four games series, Harper comes to 158 00:07:49,958 --> 00:07:56,518 Speaker 1: the plate nineteen times and you walk him thirteen times, 159 00:07:56,518 --> 00:07:59,718 Speaker 1: one for four in a four game series, you you've 160 00:07:59,838 --> 00:08:02,638 Speaker 1: swept the series. Bryce was all messed up for the 161 00:08:02,638 --> 00:08:05,878 Speaker 1: next couple of weeks. I mean going back to that series, 162 00:08:05,918 --> 00:08:08,358 Speaker 1: you talk about taking a guy a hot bat out 163 00:08:08,398 --> 00:08:10,318 Speaker 1: of the lineup. I don't think I recall a series 164 00:08:10,398 --> 00:08:13,638 Speaker 1: like that, Joe, Well, you know it's your you, you do. 165 00:08:13,758 --> 00:08:16,318 Speaker 1: I like to identify and this, this is another part 166 00:08:16,318 --> 00:08:17,958 Speaker 1: of what we're talking about right now. I don't even 167 00:08:17,958 --> 00:08:20,998 Speaker 1: know where the padres are appid analytically. Sometimes they don't 168 00:08:21,038 --> 00:08:25,198 Speaker 1: want you to, um intentially walk people. Maybe in fifteen 169 00:08:25,198 --> 00:08:27,358 Speaker 1: when I did all that, that thought had not been 170 00:08:27,358 --> 00:08:28,998 Speaker 1: put in my head at that point. I was just 171 00:08:29,158 --> 00:08:32,678 Speaker 1: really working off instinct. At that particular moment, I'm watching 172 00:08:32,718 --> 00:08:35,638 Speaker 1: what's happening with the other teams that women sitting behind him, 173 00:08:35,798 --> 00:08:40,078 Speaker 1: Anthony Man done below, Daniel Murphy down below. I felt 174 00:08:40,078 --> 00:08:42,718 Speaker 1: good about it. I mean, there was no way, Um, 175 00:08:42,758 --> 00:08:45,078 Speaker 1: I'm let and heart beat us right there with Zim 176 00:08:45,198 --> 00:08:47,278 Speaker 1: is a great player, don't get me wrong, But these 177 00:08:47,278 --> 00:08:49,678 Speaker 1: other guys. Had they put Murph back there, even though 178 00:08:49,678 --> 00:08:52,358 Speaker 1: it was left left, or even Anthony back there, I 179 00:08:52,438 --> 00:08:55,358 Speaker 1: probably would have a much more difficult decision to make 180 00:08:55,598 --> 00:08:59,758 Speaker 1: at that particular moment in time. So yeah, I it 181 00:08:59,878 --> 00:09:02,438 Speaker 1: was he wasn't gonna beat us. We were ascending as 182 00:09:02,438 --> 00:09:05,158 Speaker 1: a team as a unit at that point, and I 183 00:09:05,198 --> 00:09:08,998 Speaker 1: was managing aggressively there. And um, as it continued into 184 00:09:08,998 --> 00:09:11,718 Speaker 1: the season, as we kept getting better and better. Um, 185 00:09:11,798 --> 00:09:15,438 Speaker 1: you you have to put aside um, you know, personal feelings. 186 00:09:15,478 --> 00:09:18,878 Speaker 1: You can't worry about hurting somebody's feelings. Uh And and furthermore, 187 00:09:18,958 --> 00:09:21,598 Speaker 1: like I said, I was always about winning today's game. 188 00:09:22,038 --> 00:09:25,078 Speaker 1: I'm a big believer or not. Rogers Hornsby used to 189 00:09:25,118 --> 00:09:28,838 Speaker 1: say that whenever it was a twenty five or six 190 00:09:28,878 --> 00:09:31,238 Speaker 1: that the Cardinals won the World Series, win today's game 191 00:09:31,598 --> 00:09:33,518 Speaker 1: because you don't know what holds Tomorrow holds. You really 192 00:09:33,518 --> 00:09:37,518 Speaker 1: don't ra always saving you know, acorns for that next 193 00:09:37,638 --> 00:09:40,638 Speaker 1: uh storm a little bit, but you don't know. So 194 00:09:40,838 --> 00:09:43,198 Speaker 1: you win today's game and then you make you try 195 00:09:43,238 --> 00:09:45,998 Speaker 1: to make tomorrow fit based on what you've got. UM. 196 00:09:46,278 --> 00:09:49,038 Speaker 1: Part of that is momentum. And I believe in that stuff. 197 00:09:49,078 --> 00:09:51,798 Speaker 1: I believe in field. I believe in momentum. So when 198 00:09:51,798 --> 00:09:53,918 Speaker 1: you have an opportunity to seize that and then you 199 00:09:53,958 --> 00:09:56,718 Speaker 1: lose it because you make a decision based on tomorrow, 200 00:09:57,438 --> 00:09:59,798 Speaker 1: I I just I don't. I don't operate that way. 201 00:09:59,918 --> 00:10:03,118 Speaker 1: That way. I was accused of that several times. People 202 00:10:03,118 --> 00:10:05,958 Speaker 1: brought it to my attention, jeezus, really focus on winning 203 00:10:05,998 --> 00:10:08,998 Speaker 1: today's game. I think what else is there to do? Um? 204 00:10:09,278 --> 00:10:11,758 Speaker 1: But by the same token, I am aware and I 205 00:10:11,798 --> 00:10:14,078 Speaker 1: know everything is interconnected. That's another thing we don't talk 206 00:10:14,118 --> 00:10:18,518 Speaker 1: about enough. Uh, definitely during the regular season, interconnectivity of 207 00:10:19,038 --> 00:10:21,918 Speaker 1: today's game with yesterday's game. What's gonna happen tomorrow? And 208 00:10:21,958 --> 00:10:23,878 Speaker 1: you always have to keep that in my no question, 209 00:10:24,318 --> 00:10:27,478 Speaker 1: playoffs were micro man. You just gotta go for it 210 00:10:27,518 --> 00:10:30,318 Speaker 1: because you don't know what's gonna happen tomorrow. Great stuff, Joe, 211 00:10:30,358 --> 00:10:33,078 Speaker 1: And for anybody who has not yet read the book, 212 00:10:33,158 --> 00:10:35,438 Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, what are you waiting for? Correct? 213 00:10:35,798 --> 00:10:39,678 Speaker 1: Second of all, there is just fabulous insight into some 214 00:10:39,758 --> 00:10:43,998 Speaker 1: of these decisions and thought process that go into what 215 00:10:44,038 --> 00:10:46,398 Speaker 1: a manager does in the course of a game, and 216 00:10:46,598 --> 00:10:49,558 Speaker 1: especially important games. I mean Joe walking you through a 217 00:10:49,598 --> 00:10:52,958 Speaker 1: Game seven of the sixteen World Series. There's some fascinating 218 00:10:52,958 --> 00:10:55,118 Speaker 1: stuff from a j Hinge on Game seven of the 219 00:10:55,118 --> 00:10:58,838 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen World Series. If you want to know what 220 00:10:59,078 --> 00:11:02,078 Speaker 1: goes on in an inside a manager's head in the 221 00:11:02,118 --> 00:11:04,758 Speaker 1: heat of the moment, man, the book at Joe's got 222 00:11:04,758 --> 00:11:06,918 Speaker 1: some awesome stuff in there, so make sure you pick 223 00:11:06,958 --> 00:11:09,558 Speaker 1: it up. Hey, when we come back, I got to 224 00:11:09,598 --> 00:11:13,958 Speaker 1: talk about the Yankees. They're seasons over. How did it happen? 225 00:11:14,118 --> 00:11:24,358 Speaker 1: We'll dive into that next Welcome back to the Book 226 00:11:24,398 --> 00:11:28,398 Speaker 1: of Joe podcast Joe Madden. The Yankees are done wins. 227 00:11:28,518 --> 00:11:34,318 Speaker 1: Unbelievable historic season for Aaron Judge this year. What happened? 228 00:11:34,358 --> 00:11:36,638 Speaker 1: I know a lot had to do with the Youston Astros, 229 00:11:36,678 --> 00:11:38,718 Speaker 1: and let's not discount how good they are, and you 230 00:11:38,758 --> 00:11:41,798 Speaker 1: talked about their depth, But how about the Yankees going 231 00:11:41,798 --> 00:11:44,038 Speaker 1: out in the postseason with barely a whimper? The first 232 00:11:44,118 --> 00:11:49,238 Speaker 1: team swept while striking out fifty times. Wow. Yeah, I've 233 00:11:49,238 --> 00:11:51,118 Speaker 1: been involved in this sweep too with the Mets. Did 234 00:11:51,158 --> 00:11:53,918 Speaker 1: it to us with the Cubs? And you get a 235 00:11:53,918 --> 00:11:57,078 Speaker 1: hot pitching staff, man, it's really difficult. And you've already 236 00:11:57,158 --> 00:12:00,598 Speaker 1: highlighted the increased usage of breaking balls during the postseason 237 00:12:01,278 --> 00:12:04,318 Speaker 1: and what that's like, what that's all about. I watched 238 00:12:04,318 --> 00:12:06,638 Speaker 1: the series for the most part, and it was it 239 00:12:06,678 --> 00:12:10,198 Speaker 1: was just a total domination by the Houston pitching staff. 240 00:12:10,758 --> 00:12:13,078 Speaker 1: And then I read, because I'm a New York Post reader, 241 00:12:13,198 --> 00:12:16,198 Speaker 1: I'm here to too, fesce up and I do read, 242 00:12:16,238 --> 00:12:17,918 Speaker 1: and you read about a lot of the Yankee guys 243 00:12:17,958 --> 00:12:20,758 Speaker 1: talking about things they should do differently during the postseason, 244 00:12:20,798 --> 00:12:24,118 Speaker 1: and I, you know, these are professional guys, I get it. 245 00:12:24,158 --> 00:12:26,518 Speaker 1: But you just don't turn a switch or flip the 246 00:12:26,558 --> 00:12:29,838 Speaker 1: switch and all of a sudden become more situationally oriented 247 00:12:29,918 --> 00:12:31,558 Speaker 1: or able to hit the ball to the other side 248 00:12:31,638 --> 00:12:34,118 Speaker 1: or put down a decent sacrifice bun or bunt for 249 00:12:34,158 --> 00:12:36,118 Speaker 1: a hit, or hit and run, or you just steal 250 00:12:36,158 --> 00:12:38,238 Speaker 1: a base. This is stuff that has to be nurtured 251 00:12:38,758 --> 00:12:42,438 Speaker 1: in season. And that's why when people ask me, you know, power, 252 00:12:42,638 --> 00:12:44,998 Speaker 1: why do I Why am I the contact or hit 253 00:12:45,078 --> 00:12:47,118 Speaker 1: and run on occasion? Because I want it all. I 254 00:12:47,158 --> 00:12:50,358 Speaker 1: want an offensive team or a team. I'm into the 255 00:12:50,358 --> 00:12:52,198 Speaker 1: liberal arts version of baseball. I want you to be 256 00:12:52,238 --> 00:12:55,798 Speaker 1: able to do everything, and I don't like specialization as much. Um. 257 00:12:55,918 --> 00:12:57,918 Speaker 1: And so then you get into a short series like 258 00:12:57,958 --> 00:13:00,398 Speaker 1: that and guys are only able to do one thing, 259 00:13:00,438 --> 00:13:03,038 Speaker 1: and hey, you've got a scot and repart and on 260 00:13:03,078 --> 00:13:05,638 Speaker 1: the other hitters, on the Yankee hitters, and they're pretty 261 00:13:05,758 --> 00:13:08,118 Speaker 1: much pigeonholed into one item. They're just trying to hit 262 00:13:08,118 --> 00:13:10,878 Speaker 1: for power. Uh, And you've got guys that could actually 263 00:13:10,918 --> 00:13:13,598 Speaker 1: fulfill where they're where the weak points are. You're in 264 00:13:13,598 --> 00:13:16,518 Speaker 1: trouble as opposed to the group that's able to do 265 00:13:16,598 --> 00:13:19,038 Speaker 1: different things, maybe do a hit and run, or a 266 00:13:19,038 --> 00:13:21,798 Speaker 1: bunt for a hit, or or just a sack bunt 267 00:13:21,958 --> 00:13:25,158 Speaker 1: or hit behind and run or whatever more movement, maybe 268 00:13:25,158 --> 00:13:27,838 Speaker 1: steal the bag. And that's that's the part that I 269 00:13:27,838 --> 00:13:30,838 Speaker 1: think has been missing from our game. We've been trained 270 00:13:30,838 --> 00:13:34,718 Speaker 1: it more recently to just focus on the three true outcomes, 271 00:13:34,718 --> 00:13:37,998 Speaker 1: which is what they demonstrate it right there. Um So, yeah, 272 00:13:38,158 --> 00:13:40,158 Speaker 1: I to think that you're just going to be able 273 00:13:40,198 --> 00:13:43,398 Speaker 1: to do things automatically because you're not doing well right 274 00:13:43,398 --> 00:13:47,358 Speaker 1: now in a short series in October, that's that's really, uh, 275 00:13:47,678 --> 00:13:51,238 Speaker 1: really a bad method to even think about that that's possible, 276 00:13:51,278 --> 00:13:54,198 Speaker 1: it's not. So you've got to nurture it during one 277 00:13:54,238 --> 00:13:56,078 Speaker 1: sixty two. You've got to do those things. You might 278 00:13:56,158 --> 00:13:57,758 Speaker 1: have to get a guy thrown out once in a while, 279 00:13:57,758 --> 00:14:01,198 Speaker 1: and in order to um put make a hit and 280 00:14:01,278 --> 00:14:03,358 Speaker 1: run be part of your game or just put in 281 00:14:03,398 --> 00:14:05,558 Speaker 1: the other team mind that you might the seat of 282 00:14:05,598 --> 00:14:08,518 Speaker 1: doubt being planted is a very valuable too. So if 283 00:14:08,558 --> 00:14:10,478 Speaker 1: they know you're not gonna do anything, if you make 284 00:14:10,518 --> 00:14:13,678 Speaker 1: it so easy to advance. Scout you you're really making 285 00:14:13,718 --> 00:14:17,438 Speaker 1: it difficult on yourself unless you just get hot or 286 00:14:17,438 --> 00:14:20,558 Speaker 1: the other pitching staff is making mistakes. Is not that good. 287 00:14:20,558 --> 00:14:22,758 Speaker 1: But this time of the year, all staffs are good. 288 00:14:22,758 --> 00:14:24,518 Speaker 1: I could go on and on about this subject. But 289 00:14:24,878 --> 00:14:27,798 Speaker 1: to think that you're going to change uh, your fingerprints 290 00:14:27,838 --> 00:14:30,318 Speaker 1: at this time of the year, it's not It's not 291 00:14:30,398 --> 00:14:33,958 Speaker 1: nearly impossible. It is impossible. Yeah, No, that's a great point. 292 00:14:34,118 --> 00:14:36,478 Speaker 1: And I think in the Yankees defense here, I think 293 00:14:36,518 --> 00:14:39,838 Speaker 1: the injuries have been Intendee and le Mayhew made them 294 00:14:39,958 --> 00:14:43,038 Speaker 1: even more dependent on the one way to win, which 295 00:14:43,078 --> 00:14:44,878 Speaker 1: was the long ball. You know, I think they were 296 00:14:44,918 --> 00:14:48,078 Speaker 1: first or second in the season the highest percentage of 297 00:14:48,158 --> 00:14:50,838 Speaker 1: runs scored via the home run. And it's a great 298 00:14:50,838 --> 00:14:53,318 Speaker 1: point to say you're not going to change your offensive 299 00:14:53,318 --> 00:14:56,958 Speaker 1: profile in a postseason environment, not against the pitching staff 300 00:14:57,038 --> 00:15:00,638 Speaker 1: like Houston. But I will say, Joe, I think I'd 301 00:15:00,638 --> 00:15:03,518 Speaker 1: like to get your thoughts on this. I think pitching wise, 302 00:15:03,558 --> 00:15:07,518 Speaker 1: on the on prevention side, you can do a little 303 00:15:07,518 --> 00:15:10,118 Speaker 1: bit different. We talk about pictures when they see a 304 00:15:10,158 --> 00:15:12,238 Speaker 1: team maybe the second time in five days, and they 305 00:15:12,438 --> 00:15:14,278 Speaker 1: will mix up there, mix a little bit, show a 306 00:15:14,278 --> 00:15:17,918 Speaker 1: different look. As long as you have a variation and stuff, 307 00:15:17,958 --> 00:15:19,758 Speaker 1: you can do that. And I'm looking at Houston. You 308 00:15:19,758 --> 00:15:24,158 Speaker 1: mentioned their breaking ball usage. The Astros in this postseason 309 00:15:24,598 --> 00:15:30,198 Speaker 1: have thrown forty five cent breaking pitches forty five percent. 310 00:15:30,398 --> 00:15:33,278 Speaker 1: That is the highest number of any team in the 311 00:15:33,318 --> 00:15:36,798 Speaker 1: postseason in the fifteen years that we have tracked that 312 00:15:36,918 --> 00:15:41,398 Speaker 1: kind of number, minimum of three games. So listen, normally 313 00:15:41,398 --> 00:15:46,878 Speaker 1: a team would be around thirty percent. Is incredible. So Joe, 314 00:15:46,918 --> 00:15:49,438 Speaker 1: how about when the on the run prevention side, what 315 00:15:49,478 --> 00:15:52,558 Speaker 1: you're doing is a pitching staff. Obviously you're identifying holes 316 00:15:52,558 --> 00:15:55,118 Speaker 1: on the other hitters and the other teams, But how 317 00:15:55,118 --> 00:15:58,398 Speaker 1: about giving different looks in a postseason environment on the 318 00:15:58,438 --> 00:16:02,318 Speaker 1: pitching side. Yeah, it's um it's very difficult for the 319 00:16:02,358 --> 00:16:04,598 Speaker 1: offensive players if you're able to do that. I wonder 320 00:16:04,638 --> 00:16:08,558 Speaker 1: how much mcculler's um boost that percentage too, because this 321 00:16:08,598 --> 00:16:11,318 Speaker 1: guy really likes the throw is breaking stuff. I'm just 322 00:16:11,358 --> 00:16:14,678 Speaker 1: going I mean know from her m Valdez, who I love. 323 00:16:14,958 --> 00:16:17,278 Speaker 1: I love his stuff. But he's also got that sinker 324 00:16:17,318 --> 00:16:22,078 Speaker 1: to put in play Garcia very lander. It's interesting. But yeah, uh, 325 00:16:22,358 --> 00:16:25,838 Speaker 1: these guys, like I said, you could identify, you identify 326 00:16:26,038 --> 00:16:28,398 Speaker 1: with the Yankees are capable of doing. And you know 327 00:16:28,438 --> 00:16:30,038 Speaker 1: how many of these guys are gonna chase And we 328 00:16:30,118 --> 00:16:32,958 Speaker 1: talked about this I think last time. The ball to 329 00:16:33,038 --> 00:16:35,478 Speaker 1: strike breaking ball and the strike to ball break and ball. 330 00:16:36,038 --> 00:16:38,478 Speaker 1: Just dump it over early in the account and grab 331 00:16:38,518 --> 00:16:40,438 Speaker 1: a quick strike and then once you get into a 332 00:16:40,438 --> 00:16:43,198 Speaker 1: decent count, strike the ball. They're gonna they're gonna swing 333 00:16:43,198 --> 00:16:44,878 Speaker 1: at it. They're gonna swing at it often. And there's 334 00:16:44,918 --> 00:16:48,518 Speaker 1: there's that in information to support that. So these guys 335 00:16:48,758 --> 00:16:51,398 Speaker 1: there there, First of all, they're able to, like I said, 336 00:16:51,438 --> 00:16:53,078 Speaker 1: to identified, and then you have to be able to 337 00:16:53,118 --> 00:16:56,598 Speaker 1: execute it. It's not just it's just you to identify. 338 00:16:56,638 --> 00:16:58,798 Speaker 1: It's one thing. To get guys out there that actually 339 00:16:59,318 --> 00:17:02,238 Speaker 1: can pull this off. That's something completely different. And I'll 340 00:17:02,238 --> 00:17:05,478 Speaker 1: give you another. Maldon Odd and Baskets. Those are two 341 00:17:05,478 --> 00:17:09,598 Speaker 1: really good catchers. And I've had Maldonado briefly. Um, these 342 00:17:09,598 --> 00:17:11,238 Speaker 1: guys have a lot to do with that too. I 343 00:17:11,278 --> 00:17:12,958 Speaker 1: know they have a Scott and report to fall, but 344 00:17:12,998 --> 00:17:15,838 Speaker 1: these guys also and I know Maldonado will work off 345 00:17:15,838 --> 00:17:18,718 Speaker 1: the field too. And he's watching feed in the batter's 346 00:17:18,758 --> 00:17:23,278 Speaker 1: box and he's watching hitters react here it comes a 347 00:17:23,398 --> 00:17:26,038 Speaker 1: fastball and it's right down the middle of the guys late. 348 00:17:26,078 --> 00:17:28,198 Speaker 1: Why because he's looking break and ball. I mean, they 349 00:17:28,238 --> 00:17:30,958 Speaker 1: could read all these different kind of things. So it's 350 00:17:30,958 --> 00:17:32,918 Speaker 1: a it's a combo, it's a combination. It's a wonderful 351 00:17:32,918 --> 00:17:36,278 Speaker 1: scotting report um up game plan going into it, but 352 00:17:36,358 --> 00:17:39,998 Speaker 1: then in game being able to adjust and see what's happening, 353 00:17:40,038 --> 00:17:42,798 Speaker 1: and having a catcher or catchers like they do, I 354 00:17:42,838 --> 00:17:45,918 Speaker 1: think really benefit of them in this in this postseason. Again, No, 355 00:17:46,158 --> 00:17:50,118 Speaker 1: I love that point that you brought up Maldonado because listen, 356 00:17:50,198 --> 00:17:52,358 Speaker 1: he's not gonna hit much, right, he'll come up with 357 00:17:52,398 --> 00:17:54,598 Speaker 1: a big hit sometimes with the guy on base, But 358 00:17:54,958 --> 00:17:58,278 Speaker 1: he's had thirty three hundred plate appearances in the big leagues. 359 00:17:58,478 --> 00:18:01,118 Speaker 1: Nobody has gotten that many played appearances in the big 360 00:18:01,198 --> 00:18:03,478 Speaker 1: leagues with a lower batting average in the history of 361 00:18:03,478 --> 00:18:05,598 Speaker 1: the game than Martin maldon I don't why is he 362 00:18:05,638 --> 00:18:08,278 Speaker 1: getting all those times at bat because he's so good 363 00:18:08,318 --> 00:18:11,358 Speaker 1: behind the play. Tony LaRussa once told me that other 364 00:18:11,398 --> 00:18:15,478 Speaker 1: than Yadi Molina, there's nobody who runs a game better 365 00:18:15,678 --> 00:18:19,558 Speaker 1: from behind the plate in every way than Martin Maldonado. 366 00:18:19,758 --> 00:18:22,718 Speaker 1: So Joe. I gotta believe catching really plays up this 367 00:18:22,758 --> 00:18:25,398 Speaker 1: time of year. Oh it does, it really does. You. 368 00:18:25,398 --> 00:18:27,358 Speaker 1: You have to have that great leadership behind there. With 369 00:18:27,398 --> 00:18:30,238 Speaker 1: the Cubs had a young Wilson contrast, but there was 370 00:18:30,278 --> 00:18:32,918 Speaker 1: a veteran David Ross and Mickey Montero, and I'm telling 371 00:18:32,958 --> 00:18:37,238 Speaker 1: you we would develop, you know, outstanding game plans. Mike Borzella. 372 00:18:37,238 --> 00:18:38,918 Speaker 1: I don't know if people know who Mike is Boords. 373 00:18:38,998 --> 00:18:41,918 Speaker 1: He is literally a game planner and he's a coach. 374 00:18:41,958 --> 00:18:45,118 Speaker 1: He's on the bench and he's uh, he's conversing with 375 00:18:45,158 --> 00:18:46,958 Speaker 1: the picture in the catch with the entire game, and 376 00:18:47,358 --> 00:18:49,158 Speaker 1: his game plans were the best I've seen. And he 377 00:18:49,198 --> 00:18:52,238 Speaker 1: does it all by himself. He gets information or analytics, 378 00:18:52,238 --> 00:18:55,038 Speaker 1: but then he calls it down into a method that 379 00:18:55,238 --> 00:18:58,278 Speaker 1: is so user friendly during the game that I absolutely 380 00:18:58,358 --> 00:19:01,918 Speaker 1: loved it. But he would impart that on on Wilson 381 00:19:02,038 --> 00:19:04,998 Speaker 1: and then David and of course Mage. Now David and 382 00:19:05,078 --> 00:19:08,078 Speaker 1: Maggie have been around forever, but they they really wanted 383 00:19:08,118 --> 00:19:11,838 Speaker 1: to get the intel from bors too, because it was 384 00:19:11,958 --> 00:19:14,478 Speaker 1: that strong and it was that accurate. So when you 385 00:19:14,558 --> 00:19:19,918 Speaker 1: have this um marriage of really a coach on the 386 00:19:19,918 --> 00:19:23,878 Speaker 1: bench who honestly this I've said. I've said often times 387 00:19:23,958 --> 00:19:27,038 Speaker 1: teams got Borzello because he was that good in his prep, 388 00:19:27,438 --> 00:19:31,238 Speaker 1: so they worzy to the catchers in game. We had 389 00:19:31,278 --> 00:19:33,158 Speaker 1: little things that he can do during the game to 390 00:19:33,238 --> 00:19:35,598 Speaker 1: call a pitch because the guys will look in, might 391 00:19:35,638 --> 00:19:38,238 Speaker 1: not really be very certain right now where we want 392 00:19:38,238 --> 00:19:41,518 Speaker 1: to go, and and uh, Michael would always be emphatic. 393 00:19:41,958 --> 00:19:45,038 Speaker 1: So that was a big part of the Cup's success 394 00:19:45,198 --> 00:19:49,158 Speaker 1: was the game planning by Bors and his ability to 395 00:19:49,238 --> 00:19:52,038 Speaker 1: relay to very good catchers. And like I'm i saying 396 00:19:52,078 --> 00:19:54,718 Speaker 1: the last point, you get veterans like Miggy and and 397 00:19:54,798 --> 00:19:58,718 Speaker 1: David wanting that intel. That's pretty special. Yeah, Bors was great. 398 00:19:58,798 --> 00:20:01,398 Speaker 1: He was the first one that I noticed. I don't 399 00:20:01,438 --> 00:20:03,198 Speaker 1: know if he was first overall, but the first one 400 00:20:03,198 --> 00:20:06,958 Speaker 1: I know is to before every half inning would go 401 00:20:07,078 --> 00:20:09,598 Speaker 1: over the next sequence of hitters with his picture and 402 00:20:09,638 --> 00:20:12,638 Speaker 1: his catcher. We talked about pregame meeting Shore, you cover everybody, 403 00:20:12,678 --> 00:20:16,158 Speaker 1: but it was an inning by inning game plan with 404 00:20:16,198 --> 00:20:18,278 Speaker 1: Mike bore Zelo. He was on top of it. So 405 00:20:18,318 --> 00:20:22,078 Speaker 1: in the World Series we've got Martin Maldonado and JT. 406 00:20:22,318 --> 00:20:26,878 Speaker 1: Realmutsu I think too really good, not just receivers, but 407 00:20:27,718 --> 00:20:30,478 Speaker 1: I call him game callers, quarterbacks behind the plate. Really 408 00:20:30,518 --> 00:20:33,518 Speaker 1: looking forward to that matchup. Hey, when we get back, 409 00:20:33,718 --> 00:20:36,038 Speaker 1: I want to talk about one of your former players, 410 00:20:36,158 --> 00:20:39,078 Speaker 1: Joe whos in the World Series. Kyle Schwarber and the 411 00:20:39,198 --> 00:20:43,678 Speaker 1: importance of chemistry. Yeah, I used the C word chemistry 412 00:20:44,438 --> 00:20:46,678 Speaker 1: for a team. We're gonna talk about that when we 413 00:20:46,718 --> 00:20:54,958 Speaker 1: get back to the Book of Joe. Welcome back to 414 00:20:54,998 --> 00:20:58,038 Speaker 1: the Book of Joe Podcast with Joe Madden. I'm Tom Verducci. 415 00:20:58,158 --> 00:21:00,398 Speaker 1: Be sure to pick up our book. The Book of 416 00:21:00,518 --> 00:21:04,878 Speaker 1: Joe's got awesome amount of baseball info and some life 417 00:21:04,958 --> 00:21:08,318 Speaker 1: lessons in there as well. It's really fun. And speaking 418 00:21:08,358 --> 00:21:11,438 Speaker 1: of fun, Kyle Schwarber, Joe, you had him with the Cubs. 419 00:21:11,918 --> 00:21:14,238 Speaker 1: I mean, listen, I think he's the ultimate teammate. He 420 00:21:14,398 --> 00:21:17,918 Speaker 1: reminds me that high school football captain who everybody loves, 421 00:21:17,998 --> 00:21:20,198 Speaker 1: and he's never changed. He's the same kind of dude. 422 00:21:20,638 --> 00:21:23,638 Speaker 1: Quick story for you. I was talking to Kevin Long 423 00:21:23,758 --> 00:21:26,998 Speaker 1: about Bryce Harper and kind of the transformation that Bryce 424 00:21:27,038 --> 00:21:28,838 Speaker 1: has gone through this year. All he's wanted to do 425 00:21:29,038 --> 00:21:31,518 Speaker 1: was win. He had never won a post season series 426 00:21:31,558 --> 00:21:33,198 Speaker 1: before as a Big League and now they're in the 427 00:21:33,238 --> 00:21:37,358 Speaker 1: World Series. He mentioned it was Kyle Schwarber who along 428 00:21:37,438 --> 00:21:40,558 Speaker 1: the course of the season this year kind of taught 429 00:21:40,678 --> 00:21:44,078 Speaker 1: him the importance of just being concerned about team and 430 00:21:44,758 --> 00:21:48,198 Speaker 1: Bryce's in Bryce's defense, he's had the spotlight on him 431 00:21:48,238 --> 00:21:50,398 Speaker 1: since he was a teenager, right. It was always about 432 00:21:50,438 --> 00:21:52,918 Speaker 1: where he was playing next, what his contract was going 433 00:21:53,038 --> 00:21:55,758 Speaker 1: to be, what his numbers were going to be, what 434 00:21:56,118 --> 00:21:57,878 Speaker 1: you know, could he win an m v P, win 435 00:21:57,918 --> 00:22:01,198 Speaker 1: another m v P. It's now just about team and 436 00:22:01,558 --> 00:22:04,318 Speaker 1: and Kay Long mentioned it was Kyle schwar He was 437 00:22:04,398 --> 00:22:07,038 Speaker 1: the one who really kind of, I don't want to 438 00:22:07,078 --> 00:22:10,358 Speaker 1: say taught him, but emphasized what it meant to play 439 00:22:10,478 --> 00:22:13,558 Speaker 1: in the team context. So you got to see Kyle 440 00:22:13,798 --> 00:22:16,758 Speaker 1: up close and what he offered besides the big home run, Matt, 441 00:22:17,238 --> 00:22:20,478 Speaker 1: what did you see from Kyle Schwarber. It's my favorite word, 442 00:22:20,758 --> 00:22:23,158 Speaker 1: um when it comes to Major League Baseball where you're 443 00:22:23,158 --> 00:22:27,598 Speaker 1: talking about a player, coach, or manager, and that's fearlessness. Um. Definitely, 444 00:22:27,638 --> 00:22:31,118 Speaker 1: in a moment, I'm not concerned about a negative outcome, 445 00:22:31,198 --> 00:22:35,438 Speaker 1: anticipating something good to happen, and if it's a bad moment, 446 00:22:35,558 --> 00:22:38,358 Speaker 1: something bad occurs regarding maybe made a bad players struck 447 00:22:38,398 --> 00:22:39,798 Speaker 1: out in a big moment. He's able to turn a 448 00:22:39,838 --> 00:22:42,238 Speaker 1: page very fast, and he has he's all about team 449 00:22:43,558 --> 00:22:46,558 Speaker 1: And as you're saying that, I'm thinking about Anthony Rizzo also. 450 00:22:46,638 --> 00:22:48,358 Speaker 1: I'm very proud of the way that both of them 451 00:22:48,438 --> 00:22:51,878 Speaker 1: showed up. Uh sure, I was gets to continue. Anthony 452 00:22:51,958 --> 00:22:53,878 Speaker 1: had a great impact I thought on the Yankees, and 453 00:22:53,918 --> 00:22:56,158 Speaker 1: he was a big reason why they even looked as 454 00:22:56,558 --> 00:22:58,158 Speaker 1: you know, they got as far as they did. I 455 00:22:58,198 --> 00:23:01,158 Speaker 1: know it's all about judgment Anthony. Had he not gotten hurt, 456 00:23:01,238 --> 00:23:03,838 Speaker 1: that would have been an even bigger impact in Europe. 457 00:23:03,918 --> 00:23:06,198 Speaker 1: Because these guys, the moment doesn't get too big, you're 458 00:23:06,198 --> 00:23:09,598 Speaker 1: able to slow it down. I think, um, they get 459 00:23:09,638 --> 00:23:12,358 Speaker 1: it in that sense. They they don't become overwhelmed that 460 00:23:12,478 --> 00:23:14,798 Speaker 1: they don't add more weight to this moment. They just 461 00:23:14,918 --> 00:23:17,158 Speaker 1: kind of seek it. They're looking for it. They like 462 00:23:17,318 --> 00:23:19,798 Speaker 1: the word pressure, they like the word expectations. That's something 463 00:23:19,838 --> 00:23:22,718 Speaker 1: I really tried to get across to them when I 464 00:23:22,798 --> 00:23:25,758 Speaker 1: was there one of my my opening meeting in the 465 00:23:25,918 --> 00:23:27,718 Speaker 1: in the spring. Every year, I would I would really 466 00:23:27,798 --> 00:23:29,878 Speaker 1: stress the fact that if you hear those words, run 467 00:23:29,958 --> 00:23:32,918 Speaker 1: towards them, never run away from them, because there's something 468 00:23:32,998 --> 00:23:35,278 Speaker 1: good that's going to happen if those are words are 469 00:23:35,278 --> 00:23:37,958 Speaker 1: attached to what you're attempting to do. So Schwarvez is 470 00:23:38,078 --> 00:23:40,958 Speaker 1: U is the same Catgory you haven't completely right. High 471 00:23:40,998 --> 00:23:44,998 Speaker 1: school football captain. Um. He's always there to support everybody else. 472 00:23:45,038 --> 00:23:47,398 Speaker 1: He's always upbeat. He could hit any he could have 473 00:23:47,518 --> 00:23:50,238 Speaker 1: the worst swamp slump going on, but he knows the 474 00:23:50,318 --> 00:23:53,038 Speaker 1: next that bad he's gonna crush something. And and Riz 475 00:23:53,318 --> 00:23:55,598 Speaker 1: the same way. Riz just plays the game. You saw 476 00:23:55,678 --> 00:23:59,038 Speaker 1: Anthony how many how many bath throws that he saved 477 00:23:59,158 --> 00:24:02,758 Speaker 1: during that series right there? He really kept that infield 478 00:24:02,798 --> 00:24:05,638 Speaker 1: to float And if horses at bats, that's what everybody's 479 00:24:05,678 --> 00:24:07,838 Speaker 1: looking for. Those those are the kind of a professional 480 00:24:07,878 --> 00:24:09,518 Speaker 1: at batch you're looking for this time of the year. 481 00:24:09,598 --> 00:24:11,518 Speaker 1: So proud of both of the guys. I thought they 482 00:24:11,598 --> 00:24:14,518 Speaker 1: both represent well and now Swarbs gets to continue. And 483 00:24:14,638 --> 00:24:17,198 Speaker 1: I thought that uh, Kyle may have had a good 484 00:24:17,278 --> 00:24:20,398 Speaker 1: influence on Harper too, like you suggested. I mean, Brian 485 00:24:20,438 --> 00:24:23,158 Speaker 1: has been in his bubble his entire life. To a 486 00:24:23,198 --> 00:24:26,078 Speaker 1: certain extent, Swarbs was too, as his draft status and 487 00:24:26,118 --> 00:24:29,198 Speaker 1: how he came up with the Cubs, But totally different 488 00:24:29,278 --> 00:24:31,518 Speaker 1: regards to the kind of publicity they both received. So 489 00:24:31,598 --> 00:24:35,518 Speaker 1: I think, Um, Kyle's methods I think absolutely probably have 490 00:24:35,598 --> 00:24:39,278 Speaker 1: benefited Bryce. Yeah. I know in our book, the Book 491 00:24:39,318 --> 00:24:42,678 Speaker 1: of Joe, that you mentioned that word a lot of fearlessness, right, 492 00:24:42,838 --> 00:24:45,678 Speaker 1: and I'm assuming that it has to be part of 493 00:24:45,718 --> 00:24:49,198 Speaker 1: the DNA, not just that the players, but especially of 494 00:24:49,278 --> 00:24:52,798 Speaker 1: the manager this time of year. Um, where do you 495 00:24:52,838 --> 00:24:55,278 Speaker 1: think you learned that lesson from Joe to run a 496 00:24:55,358 --> 00:24:57,918 Speaker 1: game with fearlessness? Um? You know a lot of a 497 00:24:57,958 --> 00:24:59,798 Speaker 1: lot of it I think was derived by managing in 498 00:24:59,838 --> 00:25:01,558 Speaker 1: the minor leagues, where you can make as many mistakes 499 00:25:01,558 --> 00:25:03,638 Speaker 1: as you need to nobody gets to see him. I 500 00:25:03,678 --> 00:25:07,678 Speaker 1: think began there as a major league coach. Um. I 501 00:25:07,798 --> 00:25:12,118 Speaker 1: was in the same room with uh Larry Boa, David Parker, 502 00:25:12,158 --> 00:25:14,438 Speaker 1: who is one of my all time favorite, George Hendrick, 503 00:25:14,958 --> 00:25:19,518 Speaker 1: and of course UH Rodney and Crew and and Marcel 504 00:25:19,598 --> 00:25:23,198 Speaker 1: and these guys. Um, that to me is where it 505 00:25:23,318 --> 00:25:25,198 Speaker 1: was nurtured. And then I got to work for social 506 00:25:25,758 --> 00:25:27,918 Speaker 1: The one thing, as uh people ask me, what did 507 00:25:27,958 --> 00:25:31,358 Speaker 1: you learn from Mike Sosha? The one thing I took 508 00:25:31,398 --> 00:25:34,158 Speaker 1: from Socia, and I think David Parker's wells, these other 509 00:25:34,198 --> 00:25:38,198 Speaker 1: guys so comfortable in their major league body and uniform 510 00:25:38,278 --> 00:25:40,878 Speaker 1: they were. They'd walk out to the field and nothing changed. 511 00:25:41,398 --> 00:25:43,278 Speaker 1: You know, they were just like they had been before 512 00:25:43,318 --> 00:25:46,078 Speaker 1: the game ever began. Socian I would stand in the 513 00:25:46,158 --> 00:25:48,838 Speaker 1: corner and actually joked during the game, and I laugh 514 00:25:48,918 --> 00:25:51,038 Speaker 1: during the game was great. I mean I really Michael 515 00:25:51,038 --> 00:25:53,078 Speaker 1: and I grew up. He grew up down in Philly, 516 00:25:53,118 --> 00:25:55,478 Speaker 1: not far from here. We liked the same music, watch 517 00:25:55,558 --> 00:25:57,678 Speaker 1: the same TV shows going up, etcetera. So there was 518 00:25:57,758 --> 00:26:00,638 Speaker 1: that bond there. But what I took away from him 519 00:26:00,638 --> 00:26:04,998 Speaker 1: he was never afraid of answering a question after the game, Uh, 520 00:26:05,118 --> 00:26:07,558 Speaker 1: if it didn't work out, well, social wasn't so as 521 00:26:07,598 --> 00:26:10,398 Speaker 1: a young aspiring manager, I took that away from him. 522 00:26:10,918 --> 00:26:12,798 Speaker 1: And like I said, David, the other guys, Mickey Hatcher, 523 00:26:12,838 --> 00:26:15,638 Speaker 1: I'm a Mickey Hatcher freak. I love Mickey Hatcher, that 524 00:26:15,678 --> 00:26:17,518 Speaker 1: whole staff. You can talk, Buddy Black, I could keep 525 00:26:17,558 --> 00:26:20,678 Speaker 1: going on rags Rennicky. We had this group that when 526 00:26:20,758 --> 00:26:25,438 Speaker 1: the game began, Um, if something went wrong, nobody cowered, 527 00:26:25,518 --> 00:26:28,918 Speaker 1: nobody ran away, nobody started pointing fingers. Um. There was 528 00:26:28,958 --> 00:26:31,758 Speaker 1: a fearlessness about it. And and I think that's the 529 00:26:31,758 --> 00:26:34,238 Speaker 1: only way to win. Fortune favors the bold. If you're 530 00:26:34,278 --> 00:26:37,758 Speaker 1: out there worried about losing, I promise you're gonna lose. 531 00:26:38,198 --> 00:26:40,318 Speaker 1: If you're out there not worried about losing, just putting 532 00:26:40,358 --> 00:26:42,158 Speaker 1: it out there, you have a much better chance of winning. 533 00:26:42,598 --> 00:26:44,558 Speaker 1: So with the rays, I put it out there. Fortune 534 00:26:44,638 --> 00:26:48,278 Speaker 1: favors the bold, embraced the target, with the cuffs. These 535 00:26:48,318 --> 00:26:49,598 Speaker 1: are the things you have to do in order to 536 00:26:49,638 --> 00:26:53,318 Speaker 1: be successful, because if you cower or always worried about 537 00:26:53,318 --> 00:26:56,118 Speaker 1: answering the tough question afterward, because you're taking a chance, 538 00:26:56,358 --> 00:26:59,238 Speaker 1: it's not gonna work. Two thousand and two Angels one 539 00:26:59,278 --> 00:27:01,718 Speaker 1: of the I think one of the greatest coaching staffs 540 00:27:02,118 --> 00:27:05,558 Speaker 1: of all time. Really just a great group and and 541 00:27:05,998 --> 00:27:08,718 Speaker 1: turned it into a World championship in two thousand two. 542 00:27:09,358 --> 00:27:12,278 Speaker 1: Speaking of managers, Joe, we had news this week Bruce 543 00:27:12,318 --> 00:27:15,638 Speaker 1: Bocci is back managing Buddy of ours, back now with 544 00:27:15,718 --> 00:27:18,518 Speaker 1: the Texas Rangers after a couple of years out of 545 00:27:18,558 --> 00:27:22,478 Speaker 1: the game, getting recharged. And I think about Bocci getting hired, 546 00:27:22,598 --> 00:27:25,198 Speaker 1: I think about the last two World Series now with 547 00:27:25,318 --> 00:27:28,318 Speaker 1: three managers in the last two World Series, Dusty Baker, 548 00:27:28,398 --> 00:27:31,878 Speaker 1: of course he's managed, including the postseason, almost four thousand 549 00:27:32,038 --> 00:27:37,718 Speaker 1: games and Brian Snicker and Rob Thompson, two true baseball 550 00:27:37,878 --> 00:27:40,558 Speaker 1: lifers who really paid their dues and get their first 551 00:27:40,638 --> 00:27:44,878 Speaker 1: managing gig like you in their fifties, who bring not 552 00:27:45,118 --> 00:27:49,998 Speaker 1: just information but wisdom and experience. And these guys are 553 00:27:50,078 --> 00:27:54,838 Speaker 1: playing for the ultimate prize. Brian Snicker, Rob Thompson, Dusty Baker, 554 00:27:55,278 --> 00:27:58,198 Speaker 1: and Bruce Bocci coming back with three World Series titles 555 00:27:58,358 --> 00:27:59,998 Speaker 1: leads me to ask a question A lot of people 556 00:28:00,038 --> 00:28:03,518 Speaker 1: are probably wondering listening to this podcast, how about Joe 557 00:28:03,598 --> 00:28:06,158 Speaker 1: Madden coming back into the dugout. Well, I'm not opposed, 558 00:28:06,238 --> 00:28:08,678 Speaker 1: of course not. I just have to be asked. First 559 00:28:08,718 --> 00:28:11,878 Speaker 1: of all, I really haven't had any kind of takers 560 00:28:11,958 --> 00:28:14,718 Speaker 1: this offseason. I don't know to what extent even when 561 00:28:14,758 --> 00:28:18,158 Speaker 1: I'm talking about right now might be pushing some away. 562 00:28:18,278 --> 00:28:21,478 Speaker 1: I'm I'm really wanting by what I'm saying right now, 563 00:28:21,598 --> 00:28:26,398 Speaker 1: the different topics I've been discussing is going to attract 564 00:28:27,078 --> 00:28:30,278 Speaker 1: um maybe several in the in the in the near 565 00:28:30,358 --> 00:28:32,718 Speaker 1: future or even to the next season. But I'm really 566 00:28:32,798 --> 00:28:34,718 Speaker 1: not concerned. My my point right now is that I 567 00:28:34,798 --> 00:28:37,278 Speaker 1: have to say what I'm saying. We've talked about it 568 00:28:37,318 --> 00:28:41,518 Speaker 1: in the book and all these conversations here. Um. Uh, really, 569 00:28:41,878 --> 00:28:43,038 Speaker 1: I want to put it out there. I want to 570 00:28:43,078 --> 00:28:46,398 Speaker 1: defend baseball, and you're just talking about it right there. Um. 571 00:28:46,638 --> 00:28:48,998 Speaker 1: A lot of what I'd like to see is a 572 00:28:49,078 --> 00:28:52,518 Speaker 1: lot of the potential new managers that people like. I'd 573 00:28:52,558 --> 00:28:54,198 Speaker 1: still like to see these guys who want to manage 574 00:28:54,238 --> 00:28:56,078 Speaker 1: rookie ball for a little bit or go scout before 575 00:28:56,078 --> 00:28:59,478 Speaker 1: they ever get this opportunity. I've actually advised a couple 576 00:28:59,478 --> 00:29:00,958 Speaker 1: of guys I'm not going to mention names now that 577 00:29:01,038 --> 00:29:06,038 Speaker 1: have received manage real jobs that I've worked with. I listen, 578 00:29:06,118 --> 00:29:08,798 Speaker 1: before you do that, go ahead and and manage a 579 00:29:08,918 --> 00:29:11,478 Speaker 1: rookie league team. You're gonna really, you're gonna be surprised 580 00:29:11,518 --> 00:29:15,358 Speaker 1: all that you learned just by dealing with young players. Uh, 581 00:29:15,558 --> 00:29:17,518 Speaker 1: what what a bad product looks like, and how you 582 00:29:17,598 --> 00:29:20,958 Speaker 1: make it into a good one. All the different uh 583 00:29:21,198 --> 00:29:24,438 Speaker 1: pitfalls and and crises you have on a daily basis. 584 00:29:24,478 --> 00:29:26,918 Speaker 1: You've got to be able to work through that. And scouting. 585 00:29:27,038 --> 00:29:28,558 Speaker 1: I don't even know where Scott he is anymore. I 586 00:29:28,558 --> 00:29:32,838 Speaker 1: don't even know how valued real scouts are anymore with 587 00:29:32,958 --> 00:29:36,558 Speaker 1: all the different methods utilized to scout. But when you 588 00:29:36,638 --> 00:29:38,958 Speaker 1: sit in a stands and watch a high school kid 589 00:29:39,038 --> 00:29:42,678 Speaker 1: or a junior college kid become Barry Bonds before he 590 00:29:42,718 --> 00:29:45,718 Speaker 1: becomes Barry Bonds, or for me, back in the day, 591 00:29:46,158 --> 00:29:48,998 Speaker 1: a bunch of guys, uh like I always used Donnie 592 00:29:49,038 --> 00:29:50,758 Speaker 1: Hill as an example that I saw a short stuff 593 00:29:50,758 --> 00:29:52,398 Speaker 1: make three years the first time I saw him play, 594 00:29:52,398 --> 00:29:54,318 Speaker 1: and I love them. Uh, you could go through this 595 00:29:54,358 --> 00:29:56,358 Speaker 1: whole thing, but you've got to see what the with 596 00:29:56,558 --> 00:29:59,558 Speaker 1: this this player looks like before he becomes the finished product. 597 00:30:00,038 --> 00:30:02,638 Speaker 1: And then when you're asked questions during the major league season, 598 00:30:02,758 --> 00:30:05,398 Speaker 1: then you're able to give your GM or whatever a 599 00:30:05,478 --> 00:30:08,158 Speaker 1: better response. And it just doesn't have to be performance oriented. 600 00:30:08,238 --> 00:30:12,478 Speaker 1: So I I really believe I'd love to see more Uh, 601 00:30:12,878 --> 00:30:15,758 Speaker 1: guys recently retired that wanted to manage go back back 602 00:30:15,878 --> 00:30:18,838 Speaker 1: and do rookie ball, go back and pound. The payment 603 00:30:19,198 --> 00:30:22,158 Speaker 1: for January from March made for at least one scouting season. 604 00:30:22,198 --> 00:30:24,278 Speaker 1: See what it looks like in an area that to me, 605 00:30:24,958 --> 00:30:28,238 Speaker 1: provides a wider base that gives you more to lean 606 00:30:28,318 --> 00:30:31,078 Speaker 1: on when things go poorly. When you're at the helm 607 00:30:31,118 --> 00:30:33,918 Speaker 1: in the Major League, got dugout. Yeah, the the game 608 00:30:33,998 --> 00:30:36,678 Speaker 1: maybe turning a little bit back there, and especially next 609 00:30:36,758 --> 00:30:38,598 Speaker 1: year when we get new rules the way the game 610 00:30:38,718 --> 00:30:42,758 Speaker 1: is played. Um, the pendulum may be starting to swing back. 611 00:30:42,878 --> 00:30:44,878 Speaker 1: We will see. And you know, by the way, we 612 00:30:44,958 --> 00:30:47,078 Speaker 1: gotta get a little rock and roll in here. Sure, 613 00:30:47,238 --> 00:30:49,998 Speaker 1: we were talking about Schwarber and for some reason started 614 00:30:50,038 --> 00:30:53,598 Speaker 1: thinking about the Boss. Bruce Springsteen. I mean, obviously one 615 00:30:53,598 --> 00:30:56,718 Speaker 1: of the best of all time. But it's he's always 616 00:30:56,838 --> 00:30:59,958 Speaker 1: promoting the band as well, right, the East Street Band. 617 00:30:59,998 --> 00:31:02,798 Speaker 1: It's not just Bruce and Spruce and the East Street Man. 618 00:31:03,038 --> 00:31:05,838 Speaker 1: I always love that about him. Humble dude, Jersey guy. 619 00:31:06,958 --> 00:31:09,878 Speaker 1: That's full disclosure from me. I gotta love the Jersey guys. 620 00:31:10,518 --> 00:31:12,358 Speaker 1: But before we get out of here, you gotta give 621 00:31:12,438 --> 00:31:14,758 Speaker 1: me out of the catalog. Man, if you had to 622 00:31:14,838 --> 00:31:17,118 Speaker 1: turn on one track for the Boss, what do you 623 00:31:17,158 --> 00:31:19,878 Speaker 1: think it would be? Well, I think I'm on record 624 00:31:19,958 --> 00:31:22,838 Speaker 1: with this one, Um from the While the Innocent and 625 00:31:22,878 --> 00:31:25,558 Speaker 1: the East Street Shuffle Kitties back in Town. I just 626 00:31:25,638 --> 00:31:28,598 Speaker 1: like the completeness of That's yeah, that's the one I 627 00:31:28,678 --> 00:31:31,758 Speaker 1: talked about. I like to drive my vehicles at night. 628 00:31:31,798 --> 00:31:35,638 Speaker 1: I've got great stereo systems, and if I'm by myself 629 00:31:36,398 --> 00:31:38,638 Speaker 1: in a vehicle with a great sound system. I like 630 00:31:38,718 --> 00:31:41,838 Speaker 1: wh when it's dark. I think dark Vehicle on Road 631 00:31:41,958 --> 00:31:45,878 Speaker 1: provides a greater theater. So Kitty's back in Town U 632 00:31:46,318 --> 00:31:49,278 Speaker 1: under those circumstances, I've done it. Anytime I felt a 633 00:31:49,318 --> 00:31:51,438 Speaker 1: little bit down about something, things weren't just right, or 634 00:31:51,518 --> 00:31:54,718 Speaker 1: just needed to get excited about a moment that's coming up, 635 00:31:54,758 --> 00:31:57,758 Speaker 1: I would go kiddies back in town really high volume 636 00:31:57,998 --> 00:32:01,478 Speaker 1: in one of the vehicles at night, driving fast. That's 637 00:32:01,518 --> 00:32:04,998 Speaker 1: one of my favorite history work moments in my life. 638 00:32:05,038 --> 00:32:06,718 Speaker 1: And believe me, I'll recreate it to get it into 639 00:32:06,718 --> 00:32:09,518 Speaker 1: the future. Yeah, that album is one of the most 640 00:32:09,678 --> 00:32:11,678 Speaker 1: mind blowing albums. The first time you heard that, it 641 00:32:11,798 --> 00:32:14,878 Speaker 1: was like wow, right, and even to this day, everybody 642 00:32:14,878 --> 00:32:17,358 Speaker 1: talks about the newer stuff, newer stuff. I love you, 643 00:32:17,518 --> 00:32:20,838 Speaker 1: I love Asbury Park, I I love those two albums. 644 00:32:21,078 --> 00:32:22,958 Speaker 1: And by the way, we'll be back in town with 645 00:32:23,038 --> 00:32:26,078 Speaker 1: our next book of Joe podcasts, and we will really 646 00:32:26,438 --> 00:32:29,398 Speaker 1: really dive into the World Series and you'll be able 647 00:32:29,438 --> 00:32:32,918 Speaker 1: to get an inside perspective from Joe Madden who's won 648 00:32:32,998 --> 00:32:35,798 Speaker 1: the World Series with the Chicago Cubs. He's taken the 649 00:32:35,958 --> 00:32:39,078 Speaker 1: Tampa Bay Rays to the World Series. It's a little 650 00:32:39,118 --> 00:32:41,918 Speaker 1: bit of a different animal. It's postseason baseball, yeah, but 651 00:32:41,998 --> 00:32:44,878 Speaker 1: the World Series everything gets ratcheted up a notcher too. 652 00:32:44,998 --> 00:32:48,198 Speaker 1: This time we got phillies, we've got astros, and right 653 00:32:48,238 --> 00:32:51,038 Speaker 1: here on the Book of Joe podcast we've got Joe Madden. 654 00:32:51,118 --> 00:32:53,278 Speaker 1: So tune next time and we'll dive into the World 655 00:32:53,358 --> 00:32:57,038 Speaker 1: Series and Joe every time. It's fun every time. It's 656 00:32:57,078 --> 00:33:00,078 Speaker 1: better looking forward to the next one. Thank you, brother. Remember, 657 00:33:00,318 --> 00:33:02,718 Speaker 1: one day I will find the right words and they 658 00:33:02,718 --> 00:33:06,158 Speaker 1: will be simple. Jack here, whack beautiful. I love it 659 00:33:06,518 --> 00:33:17,558 Speaker 1: right Peace, Peace, brother out. The Book of Joe podcast 660 00:33:17,718 --> 00:33:20,638 Speaker 1: is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts 661 00:33:20,678 --> 00:33:23,518 Speaker 1: for my heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, 662 00:33:23,598 --> 00:33:26,518 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.