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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius x 9 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: M Triumph Channel one thirty two bombshell Disgraced funny man 10 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 1: Bill Cosby wants, a TV and big screen star known 11 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: around the world for his comedy acts, found guilty of 12 00:00:54,480 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: sex assault, fires his entire legal team. I mean, as 13 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 1: he Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being 14 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: with us. Maybe this has something to do with it. 15 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: I can't breathe because of Bill Cosby. I can't breathe 16 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: because I haven't slept in weeks, and uh, you know, 17 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: I just you know, you know, with everything that's going on, 18 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: I haven't been able to breathe. Like the whole nation 19 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: is doing right now, protesting. I am protesting because of 20 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: the unresolved issues due to rape from Bill Cosby with 21 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: me now veteran trial lawyer, l A defense lawyer, Troice Layton, 22 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 1: renowned New York psychologist Karen Stark, forensics expert, Professor of 23 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: Forensics at Jacksonal State University, Joseph Scott Morgan, and with 24 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: me special guest from Daily mail dot Com Sean Walsh, 25 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: with testimony like that. I guess he did fire his 26 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: whole legal team. But what I don't understand, Sean ws 27 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 1: before we get to him, you know, firing that whole squad, 28 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: that fleet of lawyers. Why is he out? He's been 29 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: convicted a rape of sex assault? Why is he slung 30 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 1: up in his multimillion dollar Brownstone mansion with his personal 31 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: shift making him three meals a day plus snacks? What? Why? 32 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 1: Why is he there and not getting three hots and 33 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: a cot behind bars? Nancy? I've got to say to 34 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 1: you that, as we often say, there's one rule for 35 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 1: the rich and there's one for everyone else. But going 36 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 1: down Wait a minute, Wait a minute. Maybe in Australia 37 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: from whence Ugh Hill, but that's not supposed to be Nancy. 38 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: In Australia, he'd be in jail. Uh, here. He's been 39 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:54,519 Speaker 1: able to wait it out while he awaits sentencing. But 40 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,359 Speaker 1: that's why he's sitting at home living the life. He's 41 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: probably wearing the same old bathrobe and hat that he 42 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: was wearing when he allegedly attacked all these women. You know, 43 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 1: Troye Layton l a defense lawyer. I want to follow 44 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: up on something that's troy Please just try and tell 45 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: the truth. Okay, Now, I know your gut reaction. Your 46 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: natural instinct is going to be putting perfume on the pig. 47 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: Don't do that. I want the truth. Isn't it true? 48 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: This is yes, No, Troyce Layton, you're on cross examination. 49 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:33,239 Speaker 1: Isn't it true? That almost always, if not always, when 50 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: a man is convicted in court of rape or felony 51 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 1: sex assault. Once the jury comes back with that conviction, 52 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: mr man is then fingerprinted, handcuffed, and taken out of 53 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: court and put on the transport bus. It's usually an 54 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: old school bus with now bars or mesh over the windows, 55 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: and taken to jail. Yes, that's usually what happens. But 56 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: I disagree that Bill Cosby is getting any treatment here. Okay, 57 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: wh whoa those two things? I mean? Correct me? If 58 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: I'm wrong, Seawan Walsh. But doesn't Troy Slayton just sound 59 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: like he talked out of two sides of his mouth 60 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: If you see him, he apparently only has one mouth. 61 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: But just then it sounds like two different things. Yes, 62 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: a convictor rapists always goes straight to jail upon conviction. 63 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: But Bill Cosby is not getting special treatment. How can 64 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: that be, Shawn Walsh? That's what I'd like to know. 65 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 1: So I'd really like to hear it, because it just 66 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:32,720 Speaker 1: appears like, go ahead, Troy, hit me. So the judge 67 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: here in Pennsylvania is following the law in that jurisdiction 68 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 1: by allowing him to remain free on the bond that 69 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: he has posted. He does not have a passport, he's 70 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 1: not a flight risk. He the judge is determined that 71 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: he's not a current danger to the community, and he 72 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: has not yet been sentenced for his crime. So it 73 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: wouldn't be fair to put him behind bars in jail 74 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: when we don't even know if his sentence is going 75 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: to include jail time in a jail facility. He may 76 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 1: get some sort of home confinement, he may get something else. 77 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: We don't know that yet. So and also this case 78 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 1: is inevitably going to have an appeal. He is convicted 79 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 1: of drugging and molesting Andrea konstant Okay, so he may 80 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:31,600 Speaker 1: very well be. That is a outpending appeal. As you 81 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: just mentioned earlier, Choice Lyton, that almost never happens in 82 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: all my years prosecuting, when I would secure a conviction 83 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: of my jury, the person went to jail on any 84 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: violent crime. I mean, Troy, just again, let me cause 85 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 1: you please be honest. Have you ever defended a rape 86 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: case where the person did not go to immediately to jail. Well, 87 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:58,679 Speaker 1: all of my cases, my clients are found not guilty, 88 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: of course, but no, in all seriousness, um, in my experience, 89 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: Uh no, that has not happened. That's what I'm saying. 90 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: This is all just wrong. And Karen Stark New York Psychologists, 91 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: what message does that send to all of his victims? 92 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: How many are their fifties sixty alleged victims. It sends 93 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: the same message, Danty, that they've been sending all alone, 94 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: that the victims are to blame, not to take this seriously, 95 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: and that they are not going to get justice that 96 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 1: they deserved to have to take a listen to it. 97 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:39,039 Speaker 1: One of the jurars in Cosby's sex attack case had 98 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: to say, following the guilty verdict, what was the evidence 99 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: that made you sure beyond a reasonable doubt that he 100 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:50,720 Speaker 1: was guilty? Um? I think it was his deposition, really, 101 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: M Crosby admitted to giving these coludes to women, young 102 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: women in order to have sex with them. When Andrea 103 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 1: was on the stand, did you believe her? Yes? What 104 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: about those other five women who tested about if you 105 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: hadn't heard from the other five and you just had 106 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: her word, would that have mattered to I don't think so, 107 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: because in the deposition he stated that he gave these 108 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: drugs to other women. I don't think it really necessarily 109 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: mattered that these other five one more here because he 110 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: said himself that he's drugs for other women. So you 111 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: found it to be his words that were the most 112 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: damning abony. But when you entered the room for the 113 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 1: first time, were you sure that he was guilty? No? 114 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: So what then made the difference for you? Once you 115 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: started deliberating, hearing everyone's comments about certain pieces of evidence, 116 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: and going through the different counts. So you don't feel 117 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: even now that it was an open and shutcase. No. 118 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: Some have said that I made the right decision. And 119 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: some people have said that they still think that he's innocent, 120 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: and I just tell them, if you were there, you 121 00:07:57,920 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: would say the same thing. You would say that these 122 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: guilt sitting here today. Is there any doubt in your 123 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 1: mind that you guys came to the right conclusion. No, 124 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: I have no doubt at all. You are hearing twenty 125 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: two year old Harris Snyder, the youngest drawer on the 126 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: Cosby jury being question. Might see guys with the GRR 127 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 1: speaking so firmly in that manner. I don't see that 128 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 1: there's any way that you're going to see jury misconduct 129 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: or a girard jumping up now saying oh that really 130 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:32,959 Speaker 1: wasn't my decision. This is a firm conviction, which adds 131 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:37,439 Speaker 1: to my concern about Cosby still being out and about 132 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 1: and walking free. But in the last days Cosby has 133 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 1: fired his entire legal team, led by attorney high profile 134 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 1: lawyer Tom Masro, who also defended Michael Jackson. So what 135 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:53,680 Speaker 1: do we know about that, DeShawn Walsh with daily Mail 136 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: dot Com to fire his fleet of lawyers? Why, I think, Nancy, 137 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: he's building a new stres energy post sentencing, because, as 138 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:05,439 Speaker 1: we know he's going to be staying at home until 139 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:08,839 Speaker 1: he's sentenced. When we moved to the sentencing thing, he's 140 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: obviously going to be sent to jail. I mean, three 141 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 1: Selen accounts of sexual assault, He's gone to jail. But 142 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 1: I think they'll then put in an appeal to try 143 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: and keep him out of jail longer, and then he'll 144 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 1: they'll fight that and see what they can do from there. 145 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: Let's not forget he's almost eighty one. Next month he 146 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: turns eighty one, and so this is a man who 147 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: maybe who is very much in his twilight years, and 148 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 1: we'll be doing everything he can to stay out from 149 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: behind bars. You know, I'm not quite sure why you say, 150 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:42,319 Speaker 1: remember he's eighty You know what, Lady Justice is wearing 151 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: a blindfold, Shawn Watch. Maybe not in Australia, but here 152 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: she wears a blindfold so she does not differentiate between 153 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: defendants or victims based on their race, their gender, their 154 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: socio economic level, or their age. And let me also 155 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: remind you that while she holds the skills of justice 156 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: in one hand Sean Walsh in our country, and her 157 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 1: other hand she carries a sword sword of justice. And 158 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: I can think of a few things that need to 159 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 1: be He spent many years holding mccoyludes. Now he holds 160 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 1: unto someone's arm to say that he's legally blind. So 161 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 1: he'll do anything he can to prevent himself getting behind bars. 162 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: So don't be surprised if this is all just part 163 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: of the strategy using his age everything to make sure 164 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: he does not go to jail. Well, you keep bringing 165 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 1: up his age. Was also the allegation that he is 166 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: blind with me. Forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan Professor Forensics, 167 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, Joe Scott, Wait a minute, I just 168 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: saw a clip of Bill Cosby coming down one of 169 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: those extremely narrow portable stairwell staircases that they bring they 170 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 1: roll up and secure at your Pride it Jet. He 171 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: was coming down that with no problem. I mean, nobody 172 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: was leading him down. That he only needs those aids 173 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 1: helping him when he's going in and out of the courthouse. Yeah, 174 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 1: seen the same clip, Nancy. Uh, up and down, up 175 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 1: and down. He clicks along pretty well when the cameras 176 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: he doesn't. He's not in perception of the cameras are 177 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 1: or in view. Uh. One, I tell you the group 178 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 1: of people I'm I'm really thinking about right now, are 179 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: all the victims and also all of these investigators that 180 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: have put in so many hours into the same Keep 181 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: in mind, these people are not in the jet set 182 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: a lot of these investigators. They're they're investigating a criminal, 183 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 1: an egregious criminal offense. Here they've got a conviction. And 184 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: now I can only imagine, Nancy, they're sitting around there 185 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: watching this guy who is allegedly Dad America's dad, you know. 186 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: Now he's sitting at home. You mentioned the Brownstone private, 187 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 1: private chef, all these sorts of things sitting there and 188 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 1: they're thinking, my god, all these victims that we went 189 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,960 Speaker 1: out and tried to tell their story and do the thing. 190 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: Is he going to get special treatment and not be 191 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: treated just like any other common criminal on the street 192 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: would be treated. And I know they're wringing their hands 193 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: right now. Is there any way we can determine the 194 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: truth regarding his alleged vision problems? Because you know what 195 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: I love are those exposas when people are claiming they 196 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 1: have some physical impairment, then they're like in the backyard, 197 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 1: jumping on the trampoline with their kids and cutting the grass. 198 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 1: I love that. But here you got Cosby walking down 199 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: this stairwell, unattendant, off of a temporary stairwell, loaded up 200 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 1: to his private jet. But boy, when you see him 201 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 1: coming in the courthouse, he's got people at every elbow 202 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,560 Speaker 1: and kneecap helping him get in. I don't buy that 203 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: for one minute. So is there any medical test to 204 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: determine that? And plus, if he is blind, he could 205 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: still go to jail. Yeah, I'm I'm curious at the 206 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: court if if this is what he's putting forward, and 207 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: I think going forward, if he's going to have to 208 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: have so called special needs consideration, is the court going 209 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: to say, at this point in time, okay, you have 210 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: to be checked out by a board certified ophthalmologist that's 211 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: going to give us some kind of official rendering here 212 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,599 Speaker 1: relative to your ability to see or not see. I 213 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:23,199 Speaker 1: would not trust Bill Cosby giving an honest eye exam. 214 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 1: I mean, it's got to be something um physical that 215 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 1: they could look at, because you know he's gonna totally 216 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 1: lie when they go, hey, can you read these letters? 217 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 1: And he would write, uh, he would say let me see. 218 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: I think it says h E L L N oh. 219 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 1: I think that is going to be the result of 220 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 1: his eye example. But guys, I can tell you this much, 221 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,079 Speaker 1: he could certainly see during this episode. My name is 222 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: Janice Baker Kenny. I began living in Reno and working 223 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 1: at Harris sometime around the summer of night when the 224 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 1: Headliners were booked at Harris. I recall that they had 225 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 1: the option of staying at the hotel, in a penthouse suite, 226 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 1: or a home owned by Harris. I know Mr Cosby 227 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: chose to stay at the house because that is where 228 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:17,319 Speaker 1: I was sexually assaulted by him in May of n 229 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: I had been at that house a couple of times 230 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: previous to that night, invited there for after show parties. 231 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: I remember going to one party hosted by Wayne Newton 232 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 1: and it wasn't out of the ordinary. So when a 233 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 1: friend said that Bill Cosby invited her to the house 234 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: for a pizza party, I didn't think it was strange 235 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: and I agreed to meet her there. I did, however, 236 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: think it was strange when I arrived and my friend 237 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: Judy was ringing the front door belt holding the pizza. 238 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: When I joined her at the front door and Bill 239 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 1: Cosby opened the door, it took me a few moments 240 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 1: to realize that this was a pizza party for just three. 241 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: I thought I would have a beer and maybe a 242 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: slice of pizza and hang out for a little bit 243 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: and then be on my way. These are the moments 244 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 1: that I can remember. Bill Cosby offered me a pill 245 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: and I took one from him. He then told me 246 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 1: to take two, that it would be fine, and I 247 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: guess I thought it must be okay. Bill Cosby said 248 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: it was, so I began to play a game of 249 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: backgammon with Mr Cosby. We were in the kitchen or 250 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: dining room area at that time, and I remember telling 251 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: him this game isn't fair, and he asked me why, 252 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: and I said because I can't see the board anymore, 253 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: and then I passed out. I woke up sometime later 254 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 1: hearing voices and it was my friend Judy leaving. I 255 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: was now in the living area on the couch with 256 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: my jeans unzipped and my blouse was open. Bill Cosby 257 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 1: came and sat down with me on the couch and 258 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: asked me if I was feeling okay. A He had 259 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 1: me leaning against him on the couch while his arm 260 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: was around me, and it was then he put his 261 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: hands inside my open blouse. I remember him then helping 262 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: me up the stairs to a bedroom. I was in 263 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: no condition to leave, to drive, to say anything. I 264 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: was so humiliated that I had passed out and I 265 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: didn't know what had happened. He had assured me that 266 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: it was okay to take the pills, but obviously it 267 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: was not. I woke up the next morning naked in 268 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: bed with a naked Bill Cosby. He was touching my 269 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: belly and on my genital area. The phone rang and 270 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: it seemed to be a business call, so I got 271 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: dressed and went downstairs to leave. I was mortified at 272 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: what had happened. He came down and met me at 273 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: the front door, and as he opened the door for me, 274 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: he stopped it part of the way before I could 275 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 1: get out, and he said these exact words, this is 276 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 1: between you and me, and he put his finger to 277 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 1: his mouth like a sign. I told him I was 278 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: not planning on alerting the media. I want to thank 279 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: the jury. Justice has been done and we're very, very 280 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:29,920 Speaker 1: happy and proud of this result. Beginning in late two 281 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 1: thousand and fourteen, we be the accusers of Mr Cosby, 282 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 1: whom I represented, began to speak out it took a 283 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,639 Speaker 1: great deal of courage. In the beginning, many were not believed. 284 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: We are so happy that finally we can say women 285 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:55,919 Speaker 1: are believed, and not only on hashtag me too, but 286 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: in a court of law. That is my friend and 287 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:03,640 Speaker 1: colleague Gloria Already, who represented simply many of Cosby's alleged 288 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: victims when they're not alleged anymore because the jury handed 289 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 1: down a guilty verdict in the case of Andrew Constant. 290 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:12,640 Speaker 1: Now what about this, Karen, start with me, New York 291 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 1: psychologist Karen, there's now bitter finger pointing. In the last hours, 292 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 1: we learned more about Bill Cosby firing his entire fleet 293 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 1: of defense attorneys. This is what I see happening in 294 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: the future. I remember when a rich white guy got 295 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,679 Speaker 1: bond in the Fulton County courthouse, and I remember it 296 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:35,159 Speaker 1: so well because it was one of my cases. And 297 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: I nearly did a back flip when this guy whose 298 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:44,160 Speaker 1: wife's dead and um he is when the fire trucks 299 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 1: show up to his house and he's lounging Romanesque and 300 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,120 Speaker 1: the yard across the street. They talked to him five 301 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 1: minutes before he goes, oh yeah, my wife's in there. 302 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:57,439 Speaker 1: All right, and he gets a bond. Long story short 303 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: after that got a bond, every defendant came up and said, 304 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:08,439 Speaker 1: I want what he got. Why shouldn't I have what 305 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 1: he got. He's out on bind on a mer charge. 306 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 1: That's what's happening here. Every rapist in the country is 307 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:17,479 Speaker 1: gonna say Cosby's out, he got convicted. I want an 308 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:19,920 Speaker 1: appeal bond. Why shouldn't I have an appeal bond. It's 309 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: a domino effect. But right now we're in the bitter 310 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:27,720 Speaker 1: finger pointing stage, Karen, where he fires Mazero, his a 311 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: renowned defense attorney. But look at this, Karen Stark. This 312 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:35,199 Speaker 1: is his m O after his first trial when he 313 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: the lawyer managed to style me the jury and got 314 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: a mistrial on this Causby throughout that legal team. That 315 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 1: team was led by a really well known Philly aerial lawyer, 316 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: Brian McGonagall, and um, he's a Philadelphia defense lawyer, and 317 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 1: Cosby threw him out. Many people argued that if Cosby 318 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: had had any brains at all, he would have kept McGonagall, 319 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:06,680 Speaker 1: because mcdonagall managed to get him a mistrial to first 320 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: go around. But my point is he threw out that 321 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,360 Speaker 1: legal team then he hars Mazero. He gets convicted. Now 322 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,640 Speaker 1: it's time for the sentencing and the appeal bond. He's 323 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: thrown out that legal team. What does that say to you? 324 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: Care and start? It sounds like rats jumping off of 325 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 1: a drowning ship, it said su Ris Dancy. He's not 326 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 1: going to go down. This guy is going to try anything. 327 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:35,159 Speaker 1: It's no different than laming the victims. Now he's blaming 328 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 1: the league of defense team. He's going to keep trying 329 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: to find a way to get out of this convictions, 330 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: to find a way to say that this was another 331 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:52,439 Speaker 1: um this trial, to to defend himself, to look to 332 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:56,920 Speaker 1: get out of any kind of sentencing. And it really 333 00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: is a shame that he's allowed to be in his 334 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: home be sitting back and waiting for this to happen, 335 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 1: especially with the way that this legal team went after 336 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:14,399 Speaker 1: the victims. Right, So Shaun watched with me from Daily 337 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 1: Mail dot Com. Shawn watsh Can we again let's focus 338 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: on the American jurisprudence system and not the Australian no offense? Okay, Um, 339 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: what's going to happen next? As Cosby is kicked back, 340 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:32,159 Speaker 1: probably that same bathrobe that he used that he was 341 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 1: wearing when he assaulted a lot of these ladies. What what, 342 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:37,919 Speaker 1: what's going to happen next? Or Josh do I just 343 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: have to look forward to watching more clips of Cosby 344 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,919 Speaker 1: being led around by his aids as he goes in 345 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: from one fancy restaurant to the next. Nancy, I think 346 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:50,159 Speaker 1: you'll be seeing a lot more of that. But I 347 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: think what will happen now is his team will focus 348 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: on sentencing and then I imagine, should he be given 349 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,400 Speaker 1: a custodial sentence, which I can't see why they wouldn't, 350 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: the team will then work on ensuring he stays out 351 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 1: of Joe and lodging an appeal? How does that work? 352 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,440 Speaker 1: Troy Slate? And I think Sean Walsh is correct Troy 353 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 1: Laton joining me high profile l A defense lawyers called 354 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:17,120 Speaker 1: an appeals bond. How does that work? Troy? Well, it's 355 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: really up to the trial judge about whether or not 356 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: to grant him the ability to have a bond to 357 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: put up money to show that he'll come back h 358 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: if he is if the sentence is upheld on appeal. 359 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: But I think you said something interesting earlier when you 360 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: said that this is a solid conviction I think there 361 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 1: are some very very good grounds for appeal here. Aside 362 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: from potential ineffective assistance of counsel, there is the issue 363 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: that wait, wait, wait, are you actually saying Maserro did 364 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 1: not do a good job. Look, Mesro is a good 365 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: you're digging, you're digging date. But let me let me 366 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 1: say that I think his best issues for appeal are 367 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:08,120 Speaker 1: the deal that he made with the original district attorney 368 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: when he gave that deposition testimony in the civil case. 369 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 1: He was given a promise by the government, the prosecutor said, 370 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: if you go and testify in that civil case, nothing 371 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 1: that you say will be used against you in a 372 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:26,719 Speaker 1: criminal case. And a new d A came in and 373 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 1: broke that deal. That is a huge Okay, So you're 374 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: not saying he didn't write the women. He's saying the 375 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: district attorney is the bad guy in this scenario because 376 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: they were nigged on a deal to keep his deposition secret. 377 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 1: And in that deposition, Seawan Walt, what exactly did Bill 378 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:51,440 Speaker 1: Cosby admitted? Okay, Look, the deposition really was a bumbshell deposition. 379 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,919 Speaker 1: I think that's why they went ahead and they judged him. Uh. 380 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: He described the sexual encounter. He talked about the quite 381 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: us um. He was very much a man who committed 382 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,239 Speaker 1: a crime but had used money to get away with it. 383 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,640 Speaker 1: And so that's why Andrea, Wait a minute, Shaun Waltsh, 384 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,879 Speaker 1: you're kind of glossing over. You said he admitted to 385 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: the quailuds. What do you mean he admitted to the quailudes? 386 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,639 Speaker 1: He did? What were the kaild he provided them? He 387 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 1: tricked women into taking quay ludes, which knocked them out. 388 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,120 Speaker 1: And again, let's not put perfume on the pig. They 389 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:35,880 Speaker 1: would wake up half naked with sticky, gooey stuff between 390 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: their legs and or on their body, with their clothes 391 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 1: rearranged half naked. That's what happened with the quay ludes. 392 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 1: Sean Waltsh. Why do I have to say it that 393 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,119 Speaker 1: I asked you and you just gloss over it, almost 394 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: as if you're signing with Cosby. Not at all. I'm 395 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: just providing the facts without the emotion, Nancy. And on 396 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,160 Speaker 1: top of that, what was than more. I know how 397 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 1: to reach your wife, Shawn Walsh, and I will tell 398 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 1: her that you're siding with Cosby. I have no problem 399 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: with writting you out. Okay, there is no side with 400 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: Mr Cosby here I can tell you that. And let 401 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,960 Speaker 1: me remind you, Nancy, dailymail dot Com was the only 402 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 1: news publication that was prepared to run with the allegations 403 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 1: of his sexual assaults before anybody else. In fact, three 404 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: weeks that took after our first story, back when we 405 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: told Barbara Bowman's story, did anyone else other than you, Nancy, 406 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: follow up on what we were saying about Mr Cosby. 407 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 1: I've been screaming about Cosby since the get go and 408 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: inviting his accusers on to tell their stories, I mean, 409 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 1: on national TV. I don't know what took so long, 410 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 1: but this is the first I believe to be other 411 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 1: criminal trials. Not only is he facing a criminal trial, 412 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 1: he's facing civil problems as well. Right now, a federal's 413 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 1: appeal court says an insurance and he has to pick 414 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 1: up Bill Cosby's tab to fight defamation lawsuits brought by 415 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,119 Speaker 1: women who accused him of sex misconduct. What is that? 416 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,880 Speaker 1: Main Chroice Layton in a nutshell. He would come out 417 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 1: in public and say all these women were big fat liars, 418 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 1: all right, and now they're suing him claiming that he 419 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: defamed them because they were not lying. So what does 420 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: this mean in regular talk? Regular speak, Chroice Layton, It 421 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 1: means that his likely his homeowners insurance or his personal 422 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: liability insurance that has a defamation writer on it is 423 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,159 Speaker 1: going to have to pick up the defense. They have 424 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 1: a duty to defend him, and he likely has insurance 425 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:52,199 Speaker 1: against a defamation lawsuits. So lucky for him, he's not 426 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,639 Speaker 1: gonna have to put up the huge legal bills to 427 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 1: defend those cases. Could there be more criminal trials? Is 428 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:00,360 Speaker 1: that what it's going to take to find? Only get 429 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: Bill Cosby behind bars? The juror is convinced of Cosby's guilt. Listen, 430 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:07,920 Speaker 1: I really didn't know a lot. I knew he was 431 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 1: an actor. I knew that he did the Cosby Show. 432 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: I never watched the Cosby Show or anything a little 433 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,399 Speaker 1: too young for that. What did you know about the 434 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 1: allegations prior to becoming a juror in the case? I 435 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 1: didn't know anything. I don't watch the news ever, so 436 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: I didn't even know what he was on trial for. 437 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 1: Are you well aware of the me too movement? Did 438 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,199 Speaker 1: that have any factor? Would you say in your decision? No? 439 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: I really only found out about it after I got 440 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 1: home and then I looked on mine to see what 441 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 1: everything was. I didn't really even know about the Me 442 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: too movement, to Shaun Walsh with daily Mail dot Com. 443 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: So this jar, the youngest one on the jury, twenty 444 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 1: two year old Harris Snyder, really didn't understand who Cosby was. 445 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: And that I mean, now people don't just tune into 446 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 1: The Cosby Show at eight o'clock on whatever night it 447 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: was Thursday night. Now people are getting their news and 448 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 1: their entertainment on their iPads on uh demand. He didn't 449 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:11,639 Speaker 1: even really know who Cosby was. That's a big blow 450 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: for Cosby because that may reflect less of the celebrity 451 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 1: status in sentencing. But this judge is apparently still very 452 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 1: impressed with him. That's true, Nancy. And this jury was 453 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,879 Speaker 1: a young guy and he probably didn't grow up watching 454 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 1: The Cosby Show, and he made very very clear in 455 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,399 Speaker 1: that interview that he didn't watch the news or have 456 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,200 Speaker 1: anything to do with news gathering. So I think that 457 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 1: makes it very difficult to Mr Cosby in any way 458 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: to claim that the jury pool is tainted, because you've 459 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 1: got people on there saying, hey, I didn't know who 460 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 1: he was, b I don't watch the news. So they've 461 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 1: just basically come to a decision based on fact. The 462 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 1: judge in this case, Montgomery County, Pennsylvania Court judge Steve 463 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 1: and T O'Neill, ironically has a wife who was very 464 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 1: much involved in this sort of issue. To Sean Walsh 465 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 1: with daily Mail dot Com, the judge overseeing Cosby's retrial 466 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: said his wife's career as a social worker specifically and 467 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: sex assault cases had no bearing on his decisions in 468 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:22,840 Speaker 1: the case. And he actually said that in and a 469 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 1: very emotional court hearing where his stature on the bench 470 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: was called into issue. What do you make of the 471 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 1: judge and why the judge has allowed him to walk 472 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 1: free on this sex assault conviction. I said it at 473 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:41,480 Speaker 1: the start of this end of the Nancy, and I'll 474 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 1: stay it again. I think there are two different rules 475 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 1: in this country for people who have money and people 476 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 1: who don't. He has a lot of money, he has 477 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 1: a lot of fame. He's been able to post a 478 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 1: very substantial bond which has kept him out of jail. 479 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 1: So I think the judge had to look at that 480 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 1: and go, okay, well, he was able to post the bomb, 481 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 1: so we'll will let him stay out. But also in 482 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 1: where he's being prosecuted. It is commonplace for offenders to 483 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 1: be able to go home until sentencing. So this is 484 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: why we're in the position that we're in. Long story short, 485 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 1: I'm just wondering, as a legal maneuver, Troy Slayton, high 486 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 1: profile l a defense attorney, if the judge did not 487 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 1: allow this appeal bond for him to stay out on 488 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 1: bond pending appeal, pending sentencing. Because in the prefile motions, Troy, 489 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 1: if you remember, Bill Cosby's lawyers actually argued that the judge, 490 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 1: Judge O'Neill should throw his throw his own self off 491 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 1: the case, that he should be recused, that he should 492 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:45,880 Speaker 1: not hear the case because O'Neill's wife position regarding sex 493 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: assault and domestic assault. All right, he kept himself on 494 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: the case, and by allowing Cosby out right now as 495 00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 1: he awaits sentencing, could do fuse that argument on appeal. 496 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 1: He could say, no, I was not swayed by my 497 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: wife's anti sex violent stance. As you can see, I 498 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 1: let him be out on a let him stay out 499 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 1: on his bond pending sentencing. So it could actually work 500 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 1: in the prosecution's favorite Troy Slayton, it could, but there 501 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 1: are other things that Causby's defense team will use against 502 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: this a judge that show bias, specifically his decision to 503 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: allow even more prior bad acts to be admitted as 504 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:41,479 Speaker 1: evidence in the current trial. In the most recent trial, well, 505 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: I think the judge strode a lot of restraint because 506 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 1: they're like fifty to sixty other women that claim he 507 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 1: assaulted them sexually as well, and Sean Walsh. Very little 508 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: similar transaction evidence came in at trial, So I think 509 00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 1: the judge showed a lot of restraint. He could have 510 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 1: let in dozen of other women testifying. Absolutely, and as 511 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 1: you know, there are many women that were prepared to 512 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: testifinancing they wanted to testify. Well, no one could disagree 513 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: with the verdict more than Tom Maserro. Listen, we are 514 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 1: we are very disappointed by the verdict. We don't think 515 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 1: Mr Cosby is guilty of anything, and the fight is 516 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: not over. Well, long story short, that was before he 517 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 1: got fired off the case. That's Michael Jackson's defense lawyer, 518 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: Tom Maserro. But as you can see, Bill Cosby not 519 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 1: going down without a fight. Did you know about a 520 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: recent law that could leave your personal data exposed online? 521 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 1: For anybody to find. If you've turned on the news lately, 522 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 1: you know the Internet has created a dangerous new world. 523 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 1: Data breaches exposed private information. There's a new cybersecurity threat 524 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 1: every other day, and criminals can sell the identity of 525 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: you and your family on the dark web. 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Members get unlimited searches, 533 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 1: so you can also look up those close to you 534 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,960 Speaker 1: and make sure they're not hiding something from their past. 535 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 1: You also get free Dart Web monitoring to make truth 536 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 1: Finder the ultimate tool in identity protection. If your personal 537 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 1: info appears for sale on the dart web, you'll be 538 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 1: the first to know. Visit truth finder dot com slash Nancy, 539 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 1: enter your own name get started. If you are a 540 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:52,720 Speaker 1: parent like me and my husband David, you're seeing all 541 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 1: your love, all your hopes, all your energy, all your money, 542 00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:02,480 Speaker 1: your plans, your time in to your children and they 543 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 1: literally become the loves of your life. You know, love 544 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,800 Speaker 1: comes in so many different ways. You've got that picture 545 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:14,240 Speaker 1: and perfume ads and in movies where the the charming 546 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 1: night rides up on a white stallion, it's your prince charming. 547 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 1: That is nothing compared to a mother's love. When that 548 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 1: love is dashed by your child's murder, where do you go? 549 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:43,120 Speaker 1: What do you do? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. 550 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:46,800 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us, with me now a 551 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:52,520 Speaker 1: warrior for justice. Her name is Becky drum Right, and 552 00:34:52,760 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 1: she is fighting for justice in the murder of her son, Tony. Becky, 553 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with Specky. When you 554 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: came home from work that day August. What happened? I 555 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: started looking for Tony because he was always in the house. 556 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:18,400 Speaker 1: He was always a rain he we had four wheelers. 557 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:20,279 Speaker 1: He never got on the four wheeler. I looked for 558 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 1: that first, and I started calling for him and I 559 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,920 Speaker 1: didn't He didn't response, and I kept looking for him, 560 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 1: and my husband was upset, saying, just let him be, 561 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 1: you treat him like a baby. Well, I wasn't gonna 562 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 1: let him be. I was gonna find where he was. 563 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,440 Speaker 1: And I went to a telephone. The phone was dead. 564 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,880 Speaker 1: I didn't get an I couldn't get out. So I 565 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:52,360 Speaker 1: went to all the phones, the last one being in 566 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:56,759 Speaker 1: the bathroom, and um, that phone was off the hook. 567 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,360 Speaker 1: There was a glass sharks all over the floor. I 568 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 1: didn't know what had happened. I was thinking something electrical 569 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 1: at first, but I called my husband's name, which it 570 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:12,280 Speaker 1: must have been in a concerning voice, because he came running. 571 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:17,000 Speaker 1: And whenever he looked at the glass, he starts clenching 572 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 1: his fist and he's hollering, oh my god, as I'm 573 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 1: dancing around him, saying what what. Um. He knew that 574 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,960 Speaker 1: a bullet had come through our closet and knocked a 575 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:34,480 Speaker 1: picture off the wall, and so he went running out 576 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:36,839 Speaker 1: the back door. I went running at the front door, 577 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:41,040 Speaker 1: calling for Tony, and then my husband called to me 578 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:45,239 Speaker 1: in a blood curdling voice, called my name. I'll never 579 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,279 Speaker 1: forget that. And I went around the side of the 580 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:50,400 Speaker 1: house and there's Tony laying on the ground by the 581 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:54,960 Speaker 1: air conditioning unit, and my husband hovered over him and 582 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,720 Speaker 1: he told me to come and stay back. Tony was alive. 583 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:01,879 Speaker 1: He told me to come come here and stay with him. 584 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,240 Speaker 1: So I did you know, My husband went in called 585 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:09,279 Speaker 1: nine one, and then he came out and told me 586 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,719 Speaker 1: he's going to go down by the road because we 587 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 1: were down in the woods, our house was. And he 588 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:21,600 Speaker 1: ran out towards the end of the driveway. The U 589 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 1: a friend of mine that I had worked with at 590 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:28,120 Speaker 1: the hospital. He is a paramedic, and he came pulling 591 00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:32,000 Speaker 1: up in his personal truck. And then here comes to 592 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,320 Speaker 1: my husband running down the driveway and wanting to know 593 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,720 Speaker 1: who he was. And I told him, I said, honey, 594 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 1: that's Mike Bayliss. I know him. I know him. He's 595 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 1: to see him too. Anyhow, Mike started working on Tony, 596 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:49,680 Speaker 1: and Mike and Henry both told me to leave and 597 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,520 Speaker 1: go around to the front of the house. I went 598 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,719 Speaker 1: and sat on my front steps and just in disbelief 599 00:37:55,880 --> 00:38:00,640 Speaker 1: what had happened because there was no apparent bullets. I mean, 600 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,759 Speaker 1: you couldn't tell what had happened. Tony had two or 601 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:07,279 Speaker 1: three drops of blood on his glasses and two or 602 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:12,759 Speaker 1: three drops of blood on his shin um, but he'd 603 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:14,440 Speaker 1: been shot in the back of the head. And you know, 604 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:18,120 Speaker 1: you couldn't see that. Then here comes the ambulance and 605 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 1: they worked on him. They took him to Mackenzie Medical 606 00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:26,080 Speaker 1: Sentner and I remember just standing and then I couldn't 607 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,320 Speaker 1: stand anymore. I just led down the wall in the 608 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,920 Speaker 1: floor and just sit there, you know, just in disbelief 609 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:34,800 Speaker 1: what's going on, because they never said what had happened. 610 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:37,640 Speaker 1: Then a doctor came out and told me that it 611 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:41,239 Speaker 1: was a gunshot wound. And I said, we're because I 612 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,840 Speaker 1: didn't get to see any of that at all. And 613 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,879 Speaker 1: he said, you know, it's in the back of his head, 614 00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:51,960 Speaker 1: and he said it could have been a suicide. I said, Becky, 615 00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:56,440 Speaker 1: I recalled distinctly the moment when I realized my fiancee 616 00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,120 Speaker 1: was dead. It's just crystallized in my mind for for 617 00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 1: that exact moment, that moment when you realized Tony had 618 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:12,000 Speaker 1: passed away. Where were you at that moment? I was 619 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:18,000 Speaker 1: a friend of ours, took us to Misi drovis um me, 620 00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 1: Henry and my daughter. As I'm walking up the incline 621 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:27,480 Speaker 1: at the sidewalk, Henry and Mark gathered around me and said, 622 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:34,080 Speaker 1: Henry said, Becky, he's gone. I said, gone where? He said, Becky, 623 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,120 Speaker 1: He's gone, and I said where did they take him? 624 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:42,600 Speaker 1: And he said, Becky, he died, and I just I 625 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:44,640 Speaker 1: went to the ground and I took them to the 626 00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:49,160 Speaker 1: ground with me, and my husband was very whispering in 627 00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:52,160 Speaker 1: my airs, Becky, please don't do this, Please don't do this. 628 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,719 Speaker 1: They got me up and we walked to the emergency 629 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,600 Speaker 1: room and they took him to a separate room. But 630 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:01,360 Speaker 1: that's whenever I found at to your guy. Listen to 631 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:08,800 Speaker 1: Becky Drumwright as she sends a warning to her son's killer. 632 00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:12,239 Speaker 1: Some Tony drum Right was murdered fifteen years ago. I 633 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:14,560 Speaker 1: would like to say to the people that did this, 634 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:17,120 Speaker 1: they are not They have not gotten away with it. 635 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:19,839 Speaker 1: They've got away with it for a long time. They 636 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:23,279 Speaker 1: are coming after them. They will be caught. There will 637 00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:27,200 Speaker 1: be justice for Tony. Let me understand, Becky Drumwright, your 638 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:32,719 Speaker 1: son's murder was first classified a suicide. How can that 639 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:37,240 Speaker 1: be a shot directly to the back of the head. 640 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,640 Speaker 1: That's impossible. Okay, let me let me say this because 641 00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:44,560 Speaker 1: it's very important. Two years later, I visited the district attorney, 642 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:46,799 Speaker 1: which he is no longer in office. There's a new 643 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 1: DA there now, but he read a report to me 644 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,080 Speaker 1: about the sheriff and how he heard about this in 645 00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:59,239 Speaker 1: his report, and I took a friend with me. In 646 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,799 Speaker 1: his report work, he said that the sheriff had gotten 647 00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:07,759 Speaker 1: a call from Mackenzie Hospital, not Memphis, that it was 648 00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 1: a homicide before the helicopter and even left to go 649 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:15,680 Speaker 1: to Memphis. I was furious, and I said, why didn't 650 00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:17,759 Speaker 1: he cordon off the area and treat it like a 651 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:22,840 Speaker 1: crime scene right then? But he didn't. The next morning 652 00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:25,520 Speaker 1: they come out. Of course, We've been up all night 653 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,480 Speaker 1: in WIMPs and came home early in the morning. There 654 00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:30,759 Speaker 1: were so many friends at the house to take care 655 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:35,160 Speaker 1: of us. And UM also out in our front yard 656 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:41,399 Speaker 1: with sheriffs to UM deputy, and they were unrolling crime 657 00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,600 Speaker 1: scene take the yellow well. I looked at my I 658 00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:46,719 Speaker 1: went and hunting. My husband's down. I said, what are 659 00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,800 Speaker 1: they doing? He said, I thought you knew. No, I didn't, 660 00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:53,200 Speaker 1: So I went out to him. I said, what's going on? Well, 661 00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:55,439 Speaker 1: have you talked to the sheriff. No, I haven't talked 662 00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:58,160 Speaker 1: to the sheriff. Where is he? He's in your backyard. 663 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,399 Speaker 1: I go back to the sheriff. He said, I've got 664 00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,640 Speaker 1: some good news and some bad news. The good news 665 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,120 Speaker 1: is Tony didn't do this to himself. And the bad 666 00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:11,799 Speaker 1: music somebody killed him. And and then you're putting up 667 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,120 Speaker 1: crime scene. Take a day later, after everybody's cleaned up 668 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:19,120 Speaker 1: for us. You know there were blood spots. Well, let's talk. 669 00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:21,920 Speaker 1: Let's talk about the actual scene, because cleaning up that 670 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:26,799 Speaker 1: crime scene. Vincent Hill with me Um, renowned private investigator 671 00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:31,239 Speaker 1: and former Nashville police officer, Vincent the reality is that 672 00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,960 Speaker 1: this young boy, this teen boy, is found dead with 673 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,880 Speaker 1: a gunshot wound to the back of the head, but 674 00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:42,839 Speaker 1: there's evidence of a scuffle, a fight in the bathroom, 675 00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:47,360 Speaker 1: and a bullet hole in the closet. The ruling of 676 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:51,080 Speaker 1: a suicide is contrary to all the evidence. And then 677 00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:55,759 Speaker 1: cleaning the crime scene was a disaster. Why Yeah, that 678 00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,239 Speaker 1: baffles me, Nancy. I don't know that these guys were 679 00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,399 Speaker 1: equipped to even know what they were doing with Maybe 680 00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:04,560 Speaker 1: they used to Hackham's razor theory, you know. But wait 681 00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:09,120 Speaker 1: a minute, listen, Vincent. Becky Drumwright just said, right then 682 00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,920 Speaker 1: and there a lot of people knew this was a 683 00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:16,000 Speaker 1: murder at the time. I'm asking you the clear and 684 00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:22,279 Speaker 1: concise question, when you clean up a crime scene. You 685 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,440 Speaker 1: know what, I'll just answer it. You lose the forensic evidence, 686 00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:30,200 Speaker 1: you lose the evidence, and it's the cops cleaning up 687 00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:35,279 Speaker 1: under the theory that this was a suicide. Becky, would 688 00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:39,160 Speaker 1: your son have ever committed suicide? That's what was so 689 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,080 Speaker 1: shocking to me because I couldn't figure it out. You 690 00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:45,480 Speaker 1: know no, I didn't think you would commit suicide at all. Now, 691 00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:52,560 Speaker 1: the next hurdle the exhimation of her teen son's body. 692 00:43:53,000 --> 00:44:00,560 Speaker 1: Listen pleased, renounce that we have reopened Tom drum years ago. 693 00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:03,680 Speaker 1: Today we are very cueing to feel like we've got 694 00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:07,880 Speaker 1: some vinal least to pursue. And as we speak, Tony's 695 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:10,239 Speaker 1: body has been exhumed in his off his way to 696 00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:13,480 Speaker 1: the tv I Crime Lab in NaSTA Ansary in Memphis, 697 00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:16,560 Speaker 1: to the tv I office in Memphis where it would 698 00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:19,160 Speaker 1: be examined by the rights mins a t v I 699 00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:22,160 Speaker 1: run through the latest DNA testing and I have a 700 00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:24,400 Speaker 1: full at times she performed by it in an effort 701 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:26,880 Speaker 1: to uncover additional evidence that will allow us to resolve 702 00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:30,440 Speaker 1: this crime. To back you Drumwright, this teen boy, Tony 703 00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:35,040 Speaker 1: Drumwrights mom, who has never given up. How many years 704 00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:41,120 Speaker 1: did you try and get Tony's murder reopened. Uh, every 705 00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:45,000 Speaker 1: since day one. They did not do a proper investigation. 706 00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,000 Speaker 1: You know, there were people who saw who was on 707 00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:52,480 Speaker 1: the property at that time, but no, it was disqualified 708 00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:56,200 Speaker 1: by the law enforcement and he was cleared. And um, 709 00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:01,080 Speaker 1: I just I don't know. I've very so much to 710 00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:03,440 Speaker 1: this story. I mean, it's so hard to go into it. 711 00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:08,840 Speaker 1: One time to Dennis Farrier, special Projects reporter at FO Dennis, 712 00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:13,520 Speaker 1: do police have any persons of interest Matt Stow, that's 713 00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:18,160 Speaker 1: the new district attorney. Absolutely, he has persons of Matt Stowe, 714 00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:23,400 Speaker 1: kind of out of town Harvard Law school, Clark for 715 00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:29,680 Speaker 1: Judge Rehnquist, brilliant guy, aggressive prosecutor, immediately starts reopening cases. 716 00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:34,359 Speaker 1: I think Becky's right in saying, you know, there's nothing 717 00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,480 Speaker 1: like a bad start to a case. So even if 718 00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:41,759 Speaker 1: you have suspects, you know, where's the evidence, where's the corroboration. 719 00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:46,720 Speaker 1: You know, the exhumation was not successful for obvious reasons. 720 00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:51,920 Speaker 1: Fifteen years. I think he's definitely got suspects. He might 721 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:55,799 Speaker 1: even know who did it, but proving it the unreasonable 722 00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,560 Speaker 1: doubt is probably out of the question, or we'd already 723 00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:01,160 Speaker 1: have it arrest. I don't know that anything is out 724 00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:06,080 Speaker 1: of the question, especially in a lot of new DNA techniques. Specifically, 725 00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:09,360 Speaker 1: the murder weapon to thirty eight caliber weapon was found 726 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:15,840 Speaker 1: on the scene. Very few perpetrators think to our gloves 727 00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:21,440 Speaker 1: to load the bullets into a gun. Very often fingerprints 728 00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:24,640 Speaker 1: or partial prints can be found on those bullets. Not 729 00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:28,040 Speaker 1: only that, when you touch DNA or there are so 730 00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:32,120 Speaker 1: many alternatives. If he's really reopened the case, what may 731 00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:35,640 Speaker 1: happen now? Take a listen to Becky reacting to the 732 00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:40,600 Speaker 1: exhimation of her son's body. I am so comforted knowing 733 00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:46,320 Speaker 1: that it's reopened and it's being investigated. I can't explain. 734 00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:49,200 Speaker 1: It's just it's bitter sweet. But there's no way that 735 00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:53,840 Speaker 1: I can explain how elane I I am that somebody 736 00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:58,239 Speaker 1: finally is listening. Somebody came to our home and the 737 00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:01,279 Speaker 1: bullet in the back of my son's head and executed 738 00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:05,120 Speaker 1: him and murdered him. I don't want this to happen 739 00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:08,480 Speaker 1: to anybody else's child. It's not about me. It's about 740 00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:12,840 Speaker 1: our children, our grandchildren, are neighbors, our friends, our family, 741 00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:15,480 Speaker 1: our loved ones, and people shouldn't get back with murder 742 00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:20,120 Speaker 1: and thank God, they're not going to you. They're not 743 00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:26,240 Speaker 1: going Because of one mother's determination and courage, her son's 744 00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:31,680 Speaker 1: murder case has been reopened, her teen boy found shot 745 00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:36,720 Speaker 1: in the backyard. The newly elected district Attorney, Matt Stowe, 746 00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:40,840 Speaker 1: weighs in, Listen, folks that were scared of someone, that 747 00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,520 Speaker 1: person may have died or been too in prison. A 748 00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:46,480 Speaker 1: lot of folks that could not talk fifteen years ago 749 00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:49,360 Speaker 1: may be able to talk today and may want to 750 00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:53,120 Speaker 1: talk today. And we want to talk because if folks 751 00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:55,640 Speaker 1: will come to us with information, will follow up on it, 752 00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:59,080 Speaker 1: and it's gonna make any case we prosecute easier. You 753 00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:01,879 Speaker 1: can do a case with, for instance alone, but it's 754 00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:03,799 Speaker 1: gonna be easier if we have some folks that will 755 00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:05,719 Speaker 1: help us along the way. And the community has got 756 00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:07,399 Speaker 1: to say in this, so I hope that they will 757 00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:10,480 Speaker 1: rise to the occasion. I can't tell you that there 758 00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:16,400 Speaker 1: have been some concerns over the condition of the casket 759 00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:18,960 Speaker 1: and the remains, given the amount of time that had 760 00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:23,719 Speaker 1: passed by. That casket has not been opened yet, but 761 00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:27,320 Speaker 1: now it does appear to be intact any good condition. 762 00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:30,560 Speaker 1: Uh So we have every reason to be optimistic that 763 00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:32,720 Speaker 1: we're going to be able to pull DNA in anything 764 00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:37,840 Speaker 1: else that we need out of that that casket. Tony Drumwright, 765 00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:43,480 Speaker 1: teen boy, is described as a sweet boy, a home body, 766 00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:49,080 Speaker 1: loved being at home. He has found dying in the 767 00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:54,240 Speaker 1: backyard from a gunshot wound. His mother has not rested 768 00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:59,040 Speaker 1: since her son passed away. Becky, do you believe you 769 00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:03,440 Speaker 1: know who Tony's killer is? Yes, ma'am, I do, And 770 00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:06,960 Speaker 1: let me tell you this, please, there were witnesses who 771 00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:11,600 Speaker 1: saw who was on our property that day. If the 772 00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:16,279 Speaker 1: tb I investigation of that is just incredible. They have 773 00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:21,719 Speaker 1: never even questioned those witnesses, so I don't think there's 774 00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:24,320 Speaker 1: a proper investigation. That's the first thing they should have 775 00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:27,759 Speaker 1: done to Vincent Hill, private investigator and former National p 776 00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:31,680 Speaker 1: D business Do you believe that with some time having passed, 777 00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:36,880 Speaker 1: that witnesses maybe more likely to speak now? Absolutely, Nancy, 778 00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:39,520 Speaker 1: because that fear of retaliation may have gone away, or 779 00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:42,480 Speaker 1: that person that they were scared of me have passed, 780 00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:45,879 Speaker 1: or or something that would allow them to speak now 781 00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:50,000 Speaker 1: versus fifteen years of Everyone, please help us solve the 782 00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:54,360 Speaker 1: mystery surrounding the death of this beautiful team boy, Tony 783 00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:59,919 Speaker 1: Drumwright the tipline seven three one nine eight six five 784 00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:07,360 Speaker 1: zero three one or find his mom Becky drum Right online, 785 00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:13,920 Speaker 1: Becky Stay Strong, Friend, Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off, 786 00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:21,719 Speaker 1: goodbye friend. 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