1 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff. Mom never told you from how stuff works, 2 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: not com Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen 3 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:18,240 Speaker 1: and I'm Caroline, and today we are going to dive 4 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 1: into some sartorial history of pants. Pants. Hey, because it's 5 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: pants season, that's right, it's getting cold outside. And also 6 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: because a few weeks ago, as I was getting them 7 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: a fall pants out, I started thinking about why pants 8 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: are considered, you know, kind of like the masculine uniform, 9 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:43,160 Speaker 1: whereas you know when skirts are for the ladies. And 10 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,200 Speaker 1: I wanted to know when women started wearing pants, and 11 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: it drove me into this just rabbit hole of sartorial 12 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: have already said sartorial, I'm probably gonna say, start a 13 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: lot a lot of fashion history and gender politics, and 14 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: it is fascinating why women wear pants and why men 15 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: wear pants, and even where the word pants comes from. 16 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: Can you can you enlighten us on some pant etymology 17 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: to kick things off, I had no idea it came 18 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: from a Roman Sat. So we have the fourth century 19 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: Roman sat Pantalion, who's the patron saint of Venice. So 20 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 1: Venetians were commonly called Pantaliones. So then in sixteenth century 21 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 1: Italy we have a type of comedy theater with stock characters, 22 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: including the miserly Pantalone. He was distinguished by the cut 23 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,040 Speaker 1: of his trousers, which French, which French people began to 24 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:46,320 Speaker 1: call pantaloons, and then by the late seventeen hundreds pantaloons 25 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: is used to describe any style of trousers. And then 26 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: the word migrates over to Britain and the lower classes 27 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: thankfully shorten it just of pants, although the upper classes, 28 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 1: we should note, initially considered it a vulgar term. Don't 29 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: they now call pants in England? Isn't that like underwear? Yes, 30 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: pant pants? Pants? Are you like your panties and trousers 31 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 1: are like your pants? I would never keep that straight. 32 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 1: I would just say I would go around being like, 33 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: oh yeah, I'm just gonna go buy a new pair 34 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: of pants, and people would be like, oh my would 35 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 1: be like, my pants are really dirty, and then heavens 36 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: and then forty Edgar Allan Poe prints the word, and 37 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: by this point pants was a generally accepted term. So 38 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: when we're talking about pants, we're talking about Saint Pantalone. 39 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: Although I do kind of prefer sometimes to say pantaloon 40 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 1: just for fun. I know, I just I really and 41 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: truly love the word pants, pants, pants, put on some pants. 42 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: I love it. Well. The etymology of skirt is a 43 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,959 Speaker 1: lot more straightforward. It comes from the Old Norse word 44 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 1: skirt to s k y r t a, which is 45 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 1: basically like one of those long peasant shirts. Think back 46 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: to uh monty python on the Holy grail Um and 47 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: that transitioned into the Old English word wait for it, skirt, 48 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: which is s c y r t e, And so 49 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: there you have it. The development of the word for 50 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: a what we think of as a skirt is related 51 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: to peasants long shirts that kind of came down to 52 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: their knees. Well, and speaking of skirts, we should stay 53 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 1: before we get into pants pants that skirts predate the 54 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: pant obviously, because it is the second oldest type of clothing, 55 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: predated only by loincloths. Valerie Steel, who's the director of 56 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: the f I T Museum, says that there are ancient 57 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: Egyptian drawings with featuring skirts and that a long skirt 58 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: signaled luxury, mainly because fabric is expensive and women's long 59 00:03:55,760 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 1: skirts would eventually signal modesty and prestige. There's a lot 60 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: of status found in skirts. Yeah, status and beauty. Uh. 61 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: You know, women's narrow waists were prized, and so you know, 62 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: if you could only cinch it so far where the courset, 63 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: you eventually were like, oh, optical illusion. I'll just make 64 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 1: my skirt fifty pounds or put a bustle in it, 65 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 1: put a bird on it, put a bustle in it, 66 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 1: um in nineteenth century. By the nineteenth century, skirts became 67 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 1: so distinctly feminine that the words skirt became slang for women. Yeah. 68 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: You still hear that every now and then. Yeah, but 69 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: this episode is devoted to pants, and we can't get 70 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: too sidelined by skirts. Although listeners side note, if you 71 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: would like an episode devoted to skirts, we can do that. 72 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,840 Speaker 1: But for now, let's talk about paths. And obviously men 73 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: started wearing pants before women did. And the reason why 74 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 1: blew my mind. I had no idea because it has 75 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: a lot to do with horses. Yeah, pants developed out 76 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,279 Speaker 1: of necessity. It's kind of hard and awkward to ride 77 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 1: a horse in a robe or a kimono if you're 78 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 1: in Japan. Uh. Samurais in Japan war baggy trousers so 79 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: that they could do things like ride horses and wheeled 80 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: heavy swords and things. Yeah, and we know this thanks 81 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 1: to evolutionary biologist Peter Turchen who traced the history of pants, 82 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: and he talks about how in different cultures, whether you're 83 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 1: talking about Japan, China, Rome, it's always related to horses 84 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: and militarism. And speaking of militarism, in Rome, soldiers adopted 85 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: pants in the first century CE after being beaten by 86 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 1: Hannibals trouser clad cavalrymen. Yeah, And church And also talks 87 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: about how in pre unified China pants were considered barbarian 88 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: clothes and that's the whole barbaric thing with pants is 89 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: not just exclusive to China. But speaking about China, they 90 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: were worn by nomadic horsemen from Central Asia. But after 91 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:10,719 Speaker 1: they invaded and did pretty well, the Chinese started to 92 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: adopt them. And church And writes that those states in 93 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: China that did not adopt cavalry or pants or adopted 94 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: them too slowly lost to the states that did so early. Right, 95 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 1: And similarly in Europe we have in the eighth century, 96 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,119 Speaker 1: after the fall of the Roman Empire, the continent falls 97 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 1: under the control of pants wearing horse riding nights so 98 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 1: you were, you know, smart enough to wear pants instead 99 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 1: of a robe. That meant you could conquer a lot 100 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 1: of people on a giant animal. Yeah, I mean, it's 101 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: really the evolution of pants is really all about the 102 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 1: evolution of the horseback cavalry. Uh in England, Henry the Eighth. 103 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: This has nothing to do with conquering cultures, but Henry 104 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 1: the Eighth wanted to show off his muscular calves and 105 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: his I'll say it, sweet, sweet god piece. And so 106 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:09,039 Speaker 1: pants became established firmly as a symbol of power and 107 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 1: prestige and also modernity, which is ironic because to start 108 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: out with they were often considered the clothes of barbarians. 109 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: But by the late seventeenth century, for instance, we have 110 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: Peter the Great in Russia decreeing that everyone in every 111 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: level of society except for clergy and peasant farmers, had 112 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: to wear pants, so that he was like, hey, Russians, 113 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: we gotta get with the times. Get throw off your 114 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: your skirts and put on some pants. Um, they really 115 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: became something completely different. They became a symbol. In France 116 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: during the Revolution, militants were long pants as opposed to 117 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: the royalist knee length. I'm gonna call them capri pants. 118 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: So long pants in France became equated with freedom. Oh yeah, 119 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: because the sands cool lots. It didn't mean that they 120 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: weren't wearing any pants, as you might hope or imagine. 121 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: It just meant that they weren't wearing the short pants. Yeah, 122 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: instead they were the sand schoolats, and the sands actually 123 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: meant more in that case because they were more pants, 124 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: more pants, longer pants. But politicizing pants wasn't just exclusive 125 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: to France either. In Scotland, King George, the Seconds Dress 126 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: Act prohibited kilts, although that was dissolved in seventeen eighty two. 127 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: But we see this, you know, all of these fascinating 128 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: things of countries being unified, empires being brought to their knees, 129 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:40,959 Speaker 1: cultures being changed by pants, pants, And so it's not 130 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: that surprising considering that that history of the pants that 131 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: it is then going to influence and intersect with gender politics. Yeah, 132 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: so when do women start wearing pants? When does this happen? 133 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: Basically a lot of people are like, hey, your skirts 134 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: and your course that they're pretty much disgusting, and they're 135 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: trailing dirt all over the place and they're making it 136 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 1: hard to breathe. And so those people who said that 137 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: very eloquent statement that I just tripped over were the 138 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: dress reformers. Yeah, the women's dress reform movement took place 139 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 1: from eighteen fifty to nineteen fourteen, and even though it 140 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: was not very mainstream, the dress reformers were considered fringe crazies, 141 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: but they had some pretty practical ideas about fashion. Because 142 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:36,559 Speaker 1: women's clothes, a single outfit could weigh up to twenty 143 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: five pounds, and those long skirts that women wore not 144 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,959 Speaker 1: only dragged on the ground and collected up street trash 145 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: and vermin, but they were also health hazards because they 146 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 1: caught on fire easily. Some women even died from tripping 147 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 1: and falling down flights of stairs because of these ridiculous skirts. 148 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: They were literally weighing us down. And the dress reformers, uh, 149 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: some of them even said, hey, can we just at 150 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: least put a cap on undergarments weighing no more than 151 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 1: seven pounds? Is that too much to ask? Like that? 152 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: That was radical for back then, I mean, because those 153 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: were the days of petticoats, right, hide that shameful body 154 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: under as much weight as you possibly can well, and 155 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: then we have we get back to skirts and the 156 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: symbolism and how the female shape at that time was 157 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 1: being artificially constructed. Yeah, exactly. Can you imagine Caroline living 158 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: a time when the idealized shape was a figure eight? No. No, 159 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: the women in my family are barrel chested. So I 160 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 1: don't think I I would not be a good candidate 161 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 1: to fit into a corset because I've just got I've 162 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 1: got a a tummy and I'm fine with it. Who 163 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: would be? I don't even know what good of course 164 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 1: that Candida is is? Um So what were the dress 165 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: reformers solutions? It was, I mean it was kind of 166 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 1: like adopting the more masculine clothes. They said that women 167 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 1: should be more allowed to wear trousers. They had reform underwear, 168 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: which were the lighter types of underwear, and also something 169 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 1: called artistic dress. And so they did this really really crazy, radical, 170 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:28,439 Speaker 1: earth shattering thing. They paired a short dress, like a 171 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: knee length skirt over pants. I mean, can you believe it? Well, 172 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:37,559 Speaker 1: this was already the fashion abroad in some places, um, 173 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: but in the United States was still very radical. And 174 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 1: it caught the attention of a woman named Elizabeth Smith 175 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: Miller who adopted it for daily wear and then introduced 176 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: it to her cousin, someone who might sound familiar, Elizabeth 177 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 1: Katie Stanton, early feminist and women's rights advocate. And then 178 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: Stanton said, Hey, what galapal Amelia Bloomer, check out this outfit. 179 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: And Amelia Bloomer, who we mentioned in other podcasts about bicycles, um, 180 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:11,199 Speaker 1: she was the editor of The Lily, which was a 181 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: feminist publication devoted to the temperance movement and women's reforms. 182 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 1: And Amelia Bloomer started wearing that trouser skirt combo and 183 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: people started calling those trousers bloomers. Yeah, And so she 184 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: wrote about this whole get up in her publication The Lily, 185 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 1: and after other papers picked up on the trend, they 186 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:34,679 Speaker 1: did start calling them bloomers. And her response to that, 187 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: her response to the publicity was, some of our editorial 188 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: brethren commend us, while others protest this usurpatient of the 189 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 1: rights of man. Yeah. And she made her Bloomer debut 190 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 1: publicly in eighteen fifty one, and it's scandalized a lot 191 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: of people, even though it was considered in modest of 192 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: the time. But she was so covered by modern standards 193 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:04,199 Speaker 1: and It was also though seen as unpatriotic because it 194 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 1: was borrowing on a Middle Eastern style, and some people 195 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: found it to be just straight up bad fashion or 196 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,560 Speaker 1: also immoral. Yeah, but the big idea was that it 197 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: just was not consistent with how people at the time 198 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 1: thought women should be, should look, should exist, should act. 199 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: And so a lot of these get ups were ridiculed 200 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: in political cartoons and publications, and that led many, even 201 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: the staunch feminists who were very pro pants to begin with, 202 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: it led them to ditch the whole outfit and just 203 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: say it's not worth it. I'd rather be taken seriously 204 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: for what I'm trying to accomplish. Yeah, Amelia Bloomer only 205 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: sported Bloomers for a few years because once the I 206 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: think it was the caged crinoline style came into fashion. 207 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:52,599 Speaker 1: It alleviated some of the weight from petticoats because the 208 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:57,319 Speaker 1: cage style held the dress out, so you didn't need 209 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,040 Speaker 1: all of those layers. But then you give me and 210 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: you'd get a breeze. Yeah, what from the petticoats or 211 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 1: now from like from not having any petticoats. That's all 212 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 1: lose lose. But if it's cold outside, that's true. Sometimes 213 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 1: you want to breeze up there and sometimes you don't. Well, 214 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,559 Speaker 1: if you're wearing twenty pounds of clothes, you'll probably a 215 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 1: little a little warmer in the winter, you would assume. Um. 216 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: But outdoor activities like bicycling did help start moving the 217 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 1: dial away from women exclusively having to wear skirts and 218 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: dresses to it being a little bit more acceptable to 219 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: wearing pant like garments. Yeah. And this reform dress movement 220 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 1: really gave women a chance to participate in more physical activities, 221 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: because if you're not wearing pounds of clothes and underwear 222 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: that like makes it impossible to breathe, you can participate 223 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: in more things like tennis, like cycling. And so this 224 00:14:55,960 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 1: pants boom intersects with the first American bicycle boom, which 225 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: made it possible for women to ride away from the house. Yeah, 226 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: I mean it was speaking of physical activity, we see 227 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: a similar evolution with swimwear, where at first when women 228 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: wanted to get into the water, they had to do 229 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: it wearing woolen dresses and it was a drowning hazard. 230 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 1: And so slowly but surely it became more acceptable and 231 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: safer for women to wear a little bit less and 232 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 1: a little bit less to the beach. Um, and the 233 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: same thing happens with pants. But it's not like all 234 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: of a sudden at the turn of the century women 235 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: were just wearing bloomers and pants all the time. Um 236 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: and Tove Hermannson over the Warren Through blog wrote in 237 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: two thousand ten she did a fantastic piece on the 238 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: evolution of women wearing pants, and she writes that in 239 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: every major instance of feminist upheaval, women's clothing has been 240 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: examined as both a symbolic and literal reflection of women's 241 00:15:56,080 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 1: inequality in society. An overarching irony is that fat is 242 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: a human construct. The things we recognize as feminine and 243 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: masculine are not inherently so, but have simply been designated 244 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 1: as such by early human society and reinforced and subsequently 245 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: evolving fashions. So in a lot of ways, skirts and 246 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: dresses of that day we're outward symbols of women's second 247 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: class citizenship, because at this point we don't have the 248 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: right to vote, we can't own property, we can't even 249 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: wear pants if we want to. It was a terrible, 250 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: terrible cycle, because if you're putting women in these clothes 251 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: you're expecting to them to wear. You know, all of 252 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: these clothes, clothes that weighed as much as a small 253 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: child all the time, all day long. You can't really 254 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: expect them to do much. I mean, would you want 255 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: to go outside and run around and close like that. No, 256 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: you'd probably kind of have to sit at home and 257 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: not lift a finger and lie on your fainting couch 258 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 1: and eat bond bonds or whatever. Or by the same token, though, 259 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: women who would be given more leeway to where if 260 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: not a little bit shorter girds where it's just brushing 261 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: the ankle rather than the floor, or actually wearing pants, 262 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 1: would be working class women who it would be a 263 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 1: occupational hazard for them to wear anything else. So it's 264 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: kind of a double edged sword where it also takes 265 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: on this classiest aspect of oh, if you're wearing pants, 266 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 1: then you must be poor. And I mean that really 267 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 1: holds true when you look at who were the early 268 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 1: adopters of pants, and a big category is the working woman, 269 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: pioneer women of the West in the US, African American 270 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:38,719 Speaker 1: women of the South, European immigrants in the fields of 271 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:41,920 Speaker 1: the Midwest. These women were not going to wear humongous 272 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: cage skirts to work in, and then that leads us 273 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 1: up to World War One and two. Women who took 274 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 1: on mail work had to dress functionally, and in World 275 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: War One they became known as slack girls who wore 276 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: full knickers. And then of course in World War Two 277 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: we have a record number of women and factories and 278 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: they are wearing men's denim overalls. A lot of them 279 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: were just wearing their husband's trousers to work um but 280 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: over it worn through. Hermanson notes that even for these 281 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: women working in wartime, they might be wearing pants to work, 282 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 1: but when they would go out, it would be in 283 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 1: a skirt or address right getting back inside that feminine 284 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 1: sphere once you're outside of the workplace. Although the sales 285 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,640 Speaker 1: of pants, we should note in World War Two definitely 286 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:31,879 Speaker 1: went up from nineteen to forty four in England it 287 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 1: was reported that five times more women's trousers were sold, 288 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 1: probably for them to work in. And around this time too, 289 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: you have actresses like Katherine Hepburn and Marlena Dietrich who 290 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:49,439 Speaker 1: are publicly wearing pants. They have photos of them taken 291 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 1: wearing pants, and even a viatrix Amelia Earhart, loved wearing pants. 292 00:18:54,800 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 1: They were her go to garment. But those were special cases. 293 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 1: They were celebrities. They had more leeway socially to where 294 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 1: pants that they wanted to. Yeah, and then Victorian college 295 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:13,160 Speaker 1: women often uh cross dressed at school, you know, whether 296 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: it was for plays, whether it was for just social events. 297 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: And I've actually posted a shout out to social media. 298 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,640 Speaker 1: I've actually posted a lot of pictures on our Pinterest 299 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 1: page of Victorian college women dressed as one addresses the 300 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:29,640 Speaker 1: bride and one was dresses the groom. And they would 301 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 1: have all these ceremonies, and they talked about on blogs 302 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: about it. How you know, like women would write letters 303 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: to each other that sounded almost like love letters, and 304 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 1: they would dress as men. But this was not like 305 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:41,959 Speaker 1: as they stressed, They're like, it's not like all this 306 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 1: rampant lesbian activity was going on in colleges in the 307 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: Victorian area. It was more to do with social divisions 308 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: at the time. You know, if you were going to 309 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 1: be affectionate with someone, it had to be a female 310 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 1: friend because there was that division between men and women. Yeah, 311 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: and Kavin Hepburn went to a woman's college, and their 312 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 1: potos of her from her college days wearing pants, which 313 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 1: would have been totally radical, and it's also totally radical, 314 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 1: but she just kept wearing them even as she ascended 315 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: into stardom in Hollywood. Um. But on a side note, 316 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 1: we do have to get a give a shout out 317 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:20,400 Speaker 1: to pants where eleanor known as Elio sears. We could 318 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 1: do an entire podcast on this woman. Um. She earned 319 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: the nickname the universal female athlete because she excelled at 320 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:31,119 Speaker 1: pretty much everything, and she was born to privilege. She 321 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: was the great great great granddaughter of Thomas Jefferson, and 322 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: she was condemned for wearing trousers in public, but she 323 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,120 Speaker 1: did it a because she liked to wear them and 324 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 1: be did not really appreciate or like the gender roles 325 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 1: of the time. And pants were also practical for her 326 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: because they helped her compete in sports. Yeah, this woman's 327 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: athletic resume is re ridiculous. She became the first woman 328 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:01,719 Speaker 1: to play for a men's polo team. She was a 329 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,159 Speaker 1: five time national doubles tennis champion, in the first female 330 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 1: national squash champion. And that is just a teeny, teeny 331 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:10,919 Speaker 1: tiny sampling of all the stuff that she did. She 332 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: actually also had gone down in a submarine, poking around 333 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: under the water in a submarine, which is awesome. She 334 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 1: was the first woman to ever fight a ticket, and 335 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 1: she was also arrested for smoking in a hotel lobby, 336 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: not because she loved to smoke so much, but because 337 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 1: men were allowed to smoke in lobbies and women were not, 338 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 1: and she was just not going to have that. She 339 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 1: was not a big fan of gender roles of her era, 340 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:41,400 Speaker 1: but she was known at the time for being one 341 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: of the few women who would ever be publicly seen 342 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: in pants, and it was considered very revolutionary at the time. Um. 343 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,439 Speaker 1: But let's take a moment, though, and talk more about 344 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,400 Speaker 1: the fashion industry in high fashion, because we've talked about 345 00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 1: how pants are clearly tied up in work women's lives, 346 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: but what about for the fashion elite. In the nineteen thirties, 347 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:10,679 Speaker 1: fashion magazines were starting to give coverage to women's pants. 348 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 1: Because in nineteen eleven or nineteen thirteen, I can't remember 349 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: which one it is exactly Paul Perray, who was the 350 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: fashion designer who might sound familiar because he's credited with 351 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 1: uh loosening women from having to wear the corset, and 352 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 1: he invented the harem pants or he didn't invent it, 353 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: but he refashioned it for the catwalk. Yeah, he adopted it, 354 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 1: not as a political statement or anything like that, but 355 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: more just as fashion. Yeah. And because he was such 356 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,400 Speaker 1: a big name at the time, harem pants took off, 357 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:47,360 Speaker 1: and so fashion magazines gradually came around to featuring more 358 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: women wearing divided garments, as they were sometimes called. Yeah. 359 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: Vogue had been sort of at the forefront of this 360 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,440 Speaker 1: for a while. They had started running in nineteen and 361 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 1: seven ads for equestrian clothes, so you know, riding pants, um, 362 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,119 Speaker 1: and then all the way up into the nineteen thirties 363 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: when they have women in beach pajamas and ski trousers. 364 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 1: But in the late nineteen thirties, slacks became considered more 365 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: appropriate for uh, not just skiing and beaching and riding horses, 366 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:26,120 Speaker 1: but they were also a wardrobe staple for country living. 367 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 1: But in uh, in the nine Vogue that has this 368 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:34,159 Speaker 1: huge article about these revolutionary things called slacks for women 369 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:36,919 Speaker 1: that did say that you had to be a hundred 370 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: and fifty pounds or less to wear them, and they 371 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 1: had to be very well cut and well creased to 372 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 1: appear properly feminine because your figure is not the same 373 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: as a man. Thank you, Vogue, thanks for clearing that up. 374 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: We should say, though, that in ninety four Levi's had 375 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,360 Speaker 1: invented its first women's genes, but not many wore them. 376 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,879 Speaker 1: It was mostly for women working on dude ranches. They 377 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: were sold a lot in the West, but not everywhere. 378 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 1: It would take a while for women in jeans for 379 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 1: a gene for to pick up. I hate singular usage. See, 380 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 1: I really enjoy it because I like what not to wear. 381 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 1: I think Stacy London is divine and she uses the 382 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,640 Speaker 1: singular pants I know, and I giggle every time. Yeah, 383 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,880 Speaker 1: like pants, stop it, stop it saying so stop saying 384 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: that I'm wearing a pant right now. See that makes 385 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: me think you're only one of your legs has a 386 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: pant on it, That's what I think of the other 387 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,920 Speaker 1: one is just wrapped up in tinfoil. You've got half 388 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: a bloomer on. I do like that. In the ninet 389 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: thirties and forties, the sales of women's genes increased alongside 390 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: the popularity of dude ranches. Yeah, I find that very interesting. 391 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 1: And and you have cowgirls, you have like Calamity Jane. 392 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 1: You have women, you know, way back when in our 393 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: Cowgirls episode we talked about women out on ranches riding horses, 394 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: and there's great pictures of women flying off their horses 395 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: with their pants all askew. But in terms of everyday 396 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,640 Speaker 1: use of being able to open up your closet, pull 397 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: out a pair of pants and wear them whether you're 398 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,679 Speaker 1: going to the workplace or to hang out or to 399 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 1: a party, women don't start wearing pants really until second 400 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: wave feminism comes along and the sexual revolution of the 401 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 1: sixties and seventies. That kind of loosens up those old 402 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: gender roles and shakes things up a bit, and you know, 403 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: once again our clothes become politicized, and for women, pants 404 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 1: are part of that. And so it takes so so long, 405 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: even though we do have people like you know, their 406 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 1: images of Mary Tyler Moore wearing pants, Audrey Hepburn obviously 407 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 1: in pants. Jackie oh is considered a fashion trailblazer of 408 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: wearing pants a lot um. But for everyday women, it 409 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: takes a long time for it to be kosher for 410 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 1: us to wear pants. And in France apparently it took 411 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 1: until this year for it to be kosher to wear pants. Yeah. Finally, 412 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: in two thousand and thirteen, France officially struck down a 413 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: law enacted in seventeen ninety nine in which a police 414 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: chief decreed that women seeking to wear pants had to 415 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 1: get special permission because pants symbolize both masculinity and the 416 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 1: working class revolutionaries. Those all sands, cool lots, right. I 417 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,200 Speaker 1: know I'm saying that incorrectly, but I mean they were 418 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,679 Speaker 1: so attached to this law that they even amended it 419 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:37,880 Speaker 1: in eighteen ninety two and nineteen o nine to keep 420 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 1: it current with the times. And it was not until 421 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,679 Speaker 1: in France when Green Party lawmakers introduced a bill to 422 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: strike down elements of what they called France's judicial archaeology, 423 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: and the government was like, don't worry about it. It's outdated. 424 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 1: You're all wearing pants, no point of taking it off 425 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: the books. Yeah. But then France's Minister Women's Rights said, actually, 426 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: let's go ahead and get official about it because it's 427 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: a symbol that's incompatible with the principles of equality. So 428 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: finally we can we can all wear it. We can 429 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 1: all wear our our pants. Um. But the history of it, though, 430 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 1: is really fascinating when you think about how for men 431 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,679 Speaker 1: wearing pants, I mean, obviously that takes some time as well, 432 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: but it's all linked to militarism, and they become adopted 433 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:34,120 Speaker 1: because it's the symbol of power and status, whereas women's 434 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: symbol of status had to be taken off in the 435 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: form of the skirt. Yeah, pants evolved out of necessity 436 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 1: for conquering purposes, and since women were doing the conquering, 437 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 1: they got stuck in heavy skirts instead for a while. 438 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,439 Speaker 1: That's right, although I will say that today, and you know, 439 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:58,159 Speaker 1: I'm not anti skirt at all, but the pants is fascinating. 440 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,880 Speaker 1: I do love a good pair of pants. True, yes, 441 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,679 Speaker 1: So let us know your thoughts on pants. Are you 442 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 1: pro pan? Are you anti pant? I know there's some 443 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 1: women who hate wearing pants. I wonder if there are 444 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,680 Speaker 1: guys out there who hate wearing pants. I'm sure there are, 445 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: I'm sure there aren't. Moms Stuff at discovery dot com 446 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,119 Speaker 1: is where you can send all of your pant ponderings. 447 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,239 Speaker 1: You can also tweet us at mom Stuff, podcasts and 448 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 1: messages on Facebook. And we've got a couple of messages 449 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,679 Speaker 1: to share with you when we come right back from 450 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:32,160 Speaker 1: a quick break and now back to our letters. Well, 451 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 1: I've got an email here from Doug in response to 452 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: our episode on women and wine, and Doug is a 453 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: Texan wine maker. He writes, I left for a year 454 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: to finish school and worked in wine sales at a 455 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: large store in town. And I can't tell you how 456 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 1: frustrated I would become with women who, after having spent 457 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 1: ten minutes extolling the virtues of a specific region, the 458 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: viticultural techniques, and the science behind a particular wine, they 459 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 1: would see a pretty bottle and choosed to buy it instead, 460 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 1: all the while admitting that it's most likely not as good. 461 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 1: What's going on, ladies, I am confused by the dichotomy 462 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 1: of this phenomenon relative to women choosing a mate. It's 463 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 1: the complete opposite, I digress. I'm equally confounded by the 464 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 1: men who think it unmanly to drink a white wine 465 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 1: or rose. The luscious viscosity and complexity of a grand 466 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: Crew Montrachet Chardonay, while not as tannic, are more robust 467 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 1: and flavorful, and the biggest calves in California. And don't 468 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 1: even get me started on the dry reasoning offerings from 469 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: alsays Magnifique. Oh man. Thank you so much, Doug, you 470 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 1: Texan wine maker. You. I have a letter here from Mallory. 471 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 1: She is responding to our wine episode. Talking about her grandmother. 472 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 1: She says, my family is initially from northern Italy, and 473 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: back in the early nineteen fifties, my nona actually worked 474 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 1: stomping grapes. Sometimes she would even her kids, I e. 475 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 1: My dad, aged three, to come and work with her. 476 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 1: Perhaps the funniest of her stories is the time she 477 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: caught my dad peeing while stomping grapes with her in 478 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: one of the big open fermentation tanks. Hilarious thought, considering 479 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 1: my dad actually grew up to become a very quiet 480 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 1: and serious man. The most ridiculous part, however, was that 481 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: after she caught him, she never told anyone. When I 482 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 1: have asked her why, she always shrugs, says she couldn't 483 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: afford to own up to it, and that a little 484 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: pep never hurt to anyone. That is her emphasized accent 485 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 1: on those words, not mine, just letting you know, uh so, 486 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: Mallary says. Anyways, I hope my familiar anecdotes haven't put 487 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 1: you off wine altogether. Just make sure to avoid Italian wine. 488 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: From back then. So thank you for the warning, Mallory, 489 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 1: and thanks to everyone who's written in mom Stuff Discovery 490 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 1: dot com is where you can email us. You can 491 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: also follow us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast, find 492 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,800 Speaker 1: us on Facebook and on Tumbler. Stuff Mo'm Never Told 493 00:30:57,840 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 1: You dot tumbler dot com where you can find EPI 494 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 1: so It's blog posts and other fun things we find 495 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 1: on the Internet. And speaking of fun things, you should 496 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 1: also follow us on Instagram at stuff mom Never Told 497 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 1: You and watch our videos over on YouTube YouTube dot com. 498 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 1: Slash stuff Mom Never Told You is where you can 499 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 1: go and subscribe for more on this and thousands of 500 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: other topics. Does it House stuff works dot com