1 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio, the George 2 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:19,279 Speaker 1: Washington Broadcast Center, Jack Armstrong, Joe, Katty Armstrong, and. 3 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 2: Joy and arms Strong Strong. I've got a pony in 4 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 2: the studio. It happened. I got a pony for Christmas. 5 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 2: And we're live. We're not live from the studio. See, 6 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 2: we're home with our presents. Well, we're live on Taylor. 7 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:42,240 Speaker 1: It's like authentic artificial cheese or what was the craft 8 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:43,639 Speaker 1: a cheese product? 9 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 2: Cheese food. Get jesus, he's adjacent and we're live adjacent. 10 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: The point is a lot of time in Trouble has 11 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: been taken to groom the following segments for your listening enjoyment. 12 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: It's the Armstrong and Getty replay. 13 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 2: Keep moving me in Countenances. Maybe I'll just stop and 14 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 2: relieve myself. Oh boy. 15 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: So this is one of the most fascinating things I've 16 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: read in the last several years. It is shockingly from 17 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: the Atlantic, which is just suffocatingly lefty these days. It 18 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 1: was written by a fellow by the name of Yannie 19 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: apple Bomb why Americans stopped moving houses and why that's 20 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 1: a very big problem. Actually, Yannie might be a woman. 21 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 1: I don't know, probably is. But the subtitle of it 22 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 1: is how Progressives Froze the American Dream. And I was 23 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: surprised to see that on the cover, but I dove in. 24 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: I'm gonna hit you with parts of it. Jack comment 25 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 1: like as much as you like, obviously, So the lead 26 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: is the idea that people should be able to choose 27 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: their own communities instead of being stuck where they are 28 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: born is a distinctly American innovation. It is the foundation 29 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: for the country's prosperity and democracy, and it just may 30 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: be America's most profound contribution. 31 00:01:58,680 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 2: To the world. 32 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 3: I have been saying this for years. You have in California, 33 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 3: the Midwest, all kinds of places I've lived, was settled 34 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:08,799 Speaker 3: by people who thought they could get a better deal here. 35 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 1: No society has ever been as mobile as the United 36 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: States once was. No society has even come close. In 37 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: the nineteenth century, friends, the heyday of American mobility. Roughly 38 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: a third of all Americans changed addresses each year. 39 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 2: Wow a third each. 40 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: Year, they quote a couple of commentators of the day. 41 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 1: The American has devoured with a passion for locomotion, said 42 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: one French writer. He cannot stay in one place. Americans 43 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: moved far more often, over longer distances and to greater 44 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: advantage than did people in the lands from which they 45 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: had come. They described how in Europe that you stayed 46 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: on the land, you stayed in the town. People were 47 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:50,919 Speaker 1: very suspicious of outsiders. We'll get to that. But over 48 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: the past fifty years, this engine of American opportunity has 49 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: stopped working. Americans have become less likely to move from 50 00:02:57,480 --> 00:02:59,799 Speaker 1: one state to another, to move within a state, or 51 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,639 Speaker 1: going to switch residences within a city in the nineteen sixties. 52 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: Now remember it was about one in three in the 53 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds. The nineteen sixties, about one out of every 54 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: five Americans moved in any given year, down from one 55 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: in three in the nineteenth century, but a frenetic rate, nonetheless, 56 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: so one in five in the nineteen sixties. In twenty 57 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: twenty three, only one in thirteen Americans moved. 58 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 2: That's unbelievable, the sharp decline in geog. 59 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 3: You go ahead, sorry, Joe and I both moved a 60 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 3: lot for our radio careers, and I don't think it's 61 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 3: shocking to say the success of this project depended on it. 62 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 3: Wouldn't It have never happened without the willingness to like 63 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 3: move to that town, than to that town, to then 64 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 3: that town for opportunity, and probably it's a good time 65 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 3: for a disclaimer. 66 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: We both were also raised by people who sought their 67 00:03:58,400 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: fortune in various ways. 68 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 2: Moved is necessary for career. 69 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: My dad was in the military for a while and 70 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: then in the publishing industry, and we moved to fair 71 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: Mounta until we finally settled in Chicagoland. But so we 72 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: we can feel and appreciate that side. 73 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 2: Of the argument, not that it's an argument per se. 74 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 1: Somebody who's lived, you know, hometown, Mom and dad and 75 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: the cousins are always around. You have giant Sunday dinners 76 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 1: together on that sort of thing. Yeah, I get a 77 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: tear in my eye thinking about how wonderful that would be. 78 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: But like I've said many times, everything has a cost 79 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: and a benefit. 80 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 2: You just have to decide, you know, what's for you anyway. 81 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:41,160 Speaker 1: Reading on from Applebaum's piece, the sharp decline in geographic 82 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: mobility is the single most important social change in the 83 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: past half century, although other shifts have attracted far more attention. 84 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 1: In that same span, fewer Americans have started new businesses 85 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 1: and fewer Americans have switched jobs. From nineteen eighty five 86 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 1: to twenty fourteen, the share of people who have become 87 00:04:57,680 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: entrepreneurs fell by half. 88 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 2: Wh Wow, that is seriously troubling. 89 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 1: And then he gets into more Americans end up worse 90 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 1: off than their parents. I think part of that is 91 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: coming down from the high of the post WW two 92 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: American dominance that was just going to be hard to avoid. 93 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 1: But then he gets into how church membership is down 94 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 1: by a third since nineteen seventy, as is the share 95 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,479 Speaker 1: of Americans who socialized several times a week. Membership in 96 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: any kind of group is half down by half. Well, 97 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:25,159 Speaker 1: you know, the earth rates keep falling. 98 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 3: One interesting aspect of the not being tied to your 99 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 3: local church and not socializing seems like that would make 100 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 3: you more mobile as opposed to less mobile. If you're 101 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 3: socializing and have a social network, that would be hard 102 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:40,720 Speaker 3: to leave behind. If you don't socialize, what the hell 103 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 3: do you care? Go to the next down they got 104 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 3: a better job. 105 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: The other side of that coin is really interesting, and 106 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: we're going to get to that in a bit, but 107 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 1: I'll skip to it. And I can relate to this 108 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 1: because Judy and I relocated four years ago. Something like that, 109 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: and it makes you more likely to want to go 110 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: out and meet people. Oh interesting, it up with the 111 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,599 Speaker 1: discomfort of going to a new church or joining a club, 112 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: or you know, just for me jumping out a tea 113 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: time that had one opening and introducing myself and meeting 114 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 1: people because you want to make connections. 115 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 2: And indeed that's what they found sociologically. That's interesting. 116 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:18,839 Speaker 1: You know, it's kind of counterintuitive, but it made people 117 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,159 Speaker 1: more sociable the fact that we moved all the time. 118 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 2: And then there's an interesting. 119 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:25,600 Speaker 1: Political aspect to this, and I don't want to get 120 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:27,839 Speaker 1: on a partisan thing because that's not what this about. 121 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:32,280 Speaker 2: This is about. I will just say that people who. 122 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: Felt anger and frustration at their financial situation tended to 123 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: vote more for Trump than Hillary, for instance, But the 124 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 1: number of those people who lived within a two hour 125 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: drive of where they grew up or had never even 126 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 1: left their hometown was. 127 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 2: Way more huge. It was a huge gap. 128 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 1: The number of people who said I'm unhappy with my 129 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 1: financial life in my career, they were wildly disproportionately people 130 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: who had not relocated to seek their fortune. 131 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:06,479 Speaker 3: No, I don't want to make this partisan at all, 132 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 3: because I don't think it needs to be. But we 133 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 3: have been saying on this show for years, you know, 134 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 3: broadcasting out of California, people talking about how expensive it 135 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 3: is to live in San Francisco. 136 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 2: Well, then move someplace cheaper. That's what I always did. 137 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 3: If I didn't afford to live somewhere, I moved someplace cheaper, 138 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 3: rather than expect the government or somebody to come in 139 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 3: and make it cheaper so you can stay. Why does 140 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 3: the why do other taxpayers owe you the ability to 141 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 3: stay in a particular town. 142 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 2: That's nuts, right, right? 143 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: And just you know, you live your life the way 144 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: you see fit, and I will not judge you unless 145 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: you come. 146 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 2: I will harsh tax money, and I'll tell you to 147 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 2: your chapace. 148 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: I mean, we were very, very successful our first job 149 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: together in Wichita, but we knew economically speaking, we had 150 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: topped out and needed to go, you know, seek our 151 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: fortune elsewhere. 152 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 2: But a lot of people do that. 153 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: Anyway, this I wanted to get to this part and 154 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: then there's more on the general topic to come and 155 00:07:59,480 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: trust me. 156 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 2: So interesting. 157 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: You've heard the expression moving day, right, I mean people 158 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: throw it around a little bit. 159 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 2: It's funny. 160 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: It's a term in golf. It's like the midway point 161 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: of a tournament. You got a chance to move off 162 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: blah blah blah. And so I'm familiar with the term 163 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: in that way. How do we How did I not 164 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 1: know this? How did all of us not know this? 165 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: The great holiday of America, when it was so nomadic, 166 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: was called Moving Day, observed by renters and landlords throughout 167 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 1: the nineteenth century and well into the twentieth with a 168 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: giant game of musical houses. Moving Day, they write, was 169 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: a festival of new hopes and new beginnings, of shattered 170 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 1: dreams and shattered crockery, quite as recognized today as Christmas. 171 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 2: Or the fourth of July. Wrote a Chicago newspaper in 172 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 2: eighteen eighty two. 173 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:49,559 Speaker 3: I as much as I read history, have never come 174 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 3: across this. 175 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 2: I know it's crazy. 176 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: It was primarily an urban thing, although many rural communities 177 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: and suburbans kind of had their own sort, and it varied. 178 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: It might be at or October first, but May first 179 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: was by far the most popular. Literally, everybody who is 180 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: renting a home, and the vast majority of people rented 181 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 1: home ownership was way way lower than it is right now. 182 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 1: The vast majority of people would move on Moving Day, 183 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: every year, or almost every year. Nothing quite so astonished 184 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 1: visitors from abroad as the spectacle of thousands upon thousands 185 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: of people picking up and swapping homes in a single day. 186 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: For months before moving day, Americans prepared for the occasion. 187 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 1: Tenants gave notice to the landlords, a received word of 188 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 1: the new rent. Then followed a frenzied period of house 189 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 1: hunting as people, generally women, scouted for a new place 190 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 1: to live that would in some respect improve upon the 191 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: old quote they want more room, or they want as 192 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: much room for less rent, or they want a better location, 193 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: or they want some convenience. 194 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 2: Not heretofore enjoyed. 195 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: The Topeka Daily Capital summarized, these were months of general anticipation. 196 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: Cities and towns were a lot with excitement. So if 197 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 1: you've ever seen one of those street scenes from back 198 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 1: in the day where everybody's got like they're junk. 199 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 2: Piled on wagons, that was moving day. 200 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 3: And the point of putting that in the article, obviously 201 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:18,319 Speaker 3: is to just point out that the cultural attitude about 202 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 3: moving was so much different. And as we've said, every 203 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 3: part of this country, people coming out west, starting in 204 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 3: the very very eastern part of the country, and the 205 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 3: colonies and spreading to you know, when when the wild 206 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 3: West was Ohio and Kentucky, and then going further and 207 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 3: further for a better opportunity. And now not to be 208 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 3: too disparaging of various industries and people, because I understand, 209 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 3: like Joe said, I fully understand why it'd be awesome 210 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 3: to stay in your hometown where you grow up and 211 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 3: have your kids go to the same school and you know, 212 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,559 Speaker 3: all your family and friends. I got I would love that. 213 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 3: But the idea that coal mining goes away and you're 214 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 3: gonna stay in the same dead town that's never gonna come. 215 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 2: Back is nuts. 216 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's nuts in terms of the history of this 217 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:18,199 Speaker 3: country or you know, working for General Motors in whatever 218 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:21,079 Speaker 3: town in Michigan or whatever. If something's gone away, then 219 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 3: you got to move to a different town where the 220 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 3: new industry is. That's what everybody has done forever in 221 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 3: this country. And yeah, pointing out that that's gone away 222 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 3: and now we're like Europe where you do plan to 223 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 3: stay in the town your family is from for generations, 224 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:39,319 Speaker 3: which again I understand the appeal. 225 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: Sure, Yeah, one charming anecdote from this which I can't find, 226 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: but I can paragraph a paraphrase. They mentioned that in Europe, 227 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 1: indeed you stay in the same place, very insulur, and 228 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: that newcomers would simply cause a more subdivision of the 229 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: goods and services and land available there. So newcomers were 230 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: like a bad thing, whereas in America it was such 231 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 1: a constant that the idea of a stranger went from 232 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: a threat to literally Americans would say. 233 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 2: Hello, stranger. 234 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 1: You're not from around here, are you, And it was 235 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 1: not a term of suspicion, it was a term of greeting. 236 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 3: That's really interesting, and I don't think good for the country. 237 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 3: Armstrong an update on my Ukrainian girlfriend. If you've been 238 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:32,959 Speaker 3: following this, well, if you haven't been following this saga, 239 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 3: a quick background, so you know my email has been 240 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 3: hacked like yours has a million times. All kinds of 241 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 3: people have your email address and some bad actor is 242 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,319 Speaker 3: trying to get me involved in a scam, like happens 243 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:46,439 Speaker 3: all the time, but in. 244 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 2: This case it love as a scam. 245 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 3: In this case that somebody portrayed themselves as a young 246 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 3: Ukrainian woman who like immediately was in love with me just. 247 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 2: Because of my email address or something like that. 248 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 1: Jack Armstrong. 249 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:04,439 Speaker 3: And she writes in funny ways. I guess you would 250 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 3: if you don't, you're not a native English speaker. She's Ukrainian. 251 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 3: She says things like jack, my precious diamond love you 252 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 3: know that sort of thing, and how much she loves me. 253 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 3: And she sends pictures. The weird thing is all the 254 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 3: pictures are like different girls. She looks different than the 255 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 3: different pictures. But anyway, she's like lady gay guys. She's 256 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 3: constantly reinventing herself. So what I was wondering is what 257 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 3: was the scam? What's the scam? Is it gonna be 258 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 3: the as she asks for money? Does she get to 259 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 3: try to get me to click on a link? She 260 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 3: did send me like voice memos if you would like 261 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 3: to hear my voice? How beautiful it is? You know 262 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 3: here it is, so there was something to click on. 263 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 3: I did not click on it. And I've been like 264 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 3: sending one word replies or a one sentence replies every 265 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:47,680 Speaker 3: now and then. You know, I've been thinking of you 266 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 3: all night. You know, how are you that sort of thing? Wow, 267 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 3: good Man waiting waiting for the scam? I just wondered, 268 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 3: what which kind of scam this is? Well Hanson came 269 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 3: up with the idea of scam her first. Tell her 270 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 3: you have had a medical emergency and need five thousand dollars, 271 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:06,960 Speaker 3: or you're in jail or whatever it's going to be, 272 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 3: ask her for money. But we decided to lead up 273 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 3: to that, and so I had sent this email two 274 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 3: days ago. You were on my mind the entire weekend. 275 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 3: I really want to see you, my buttercup, and I 276 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 3: really want to see you. Who is gonna be followed 277 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 3: by I have almost all the money I need for 278 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 3: a plane ticket. I just need five hundred dollars more 279 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 3: or something like that. But her response shocked me. All 280 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 3: my kisses for you, Jack, exclamation point, exclamation point. If 281 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 3: you really want to have a relationship with me, please 282 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 3: answer all the letters I wrote to you and all 283 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 3: my questions another way. Please do not disturb me anymore. 284 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:48,479 Speaker 2: Wow. 285 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 3: She actually like, if you're not gonna actually email me 286 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 3: back and participate in this relationship, I want out, is 287 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 3: the way she responded, which is surprising to me. 288 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: Wow, she replied, if I might, don't build me up, Buttercup, 289 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: just to let me down. 290 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 2: To quote the old Motownish song. 291 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 3: So I don't know what the thing now, but that's 292 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 3: a weird scam. Oh no, no, that's it's good. It's smart. 293 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 3: She's trying to convince you of her sincerity. So that's 294 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 3: supposed to make me as a really pathetic, sad, lonely, 295 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 3: perhaps mentally ill person. Oh no, I'm in jeopardy of 296 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 3: losing this. 297 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah, I've got to be serious about this. 298 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 1: I've got to treat this girl like she deserves to 299 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: be treated. Yes, God, I got to answer all our questions. 300 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 1: I don't want to answer all our questions. He had 301 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: a lot of questions about, like, you know, what's your 302 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: favorite movie or flower or whatever. 303 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 2: I don't know. 304 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 3: You know the way, you know, the way women are 305 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 3: with their questions while you're trying to watch TV. 306 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 2: Did you have a comment, Katie. 307 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 4: No, it just sounds like she's totally trying to guilt 308 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 4: you into keeping this going. 309 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 2: Oh okay, gotcha. 310 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 4: And I heavily think you should answer all of the 311 00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 4: questions and continue this because this is fantastic entertaining. 312 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 2: God, we've only been together for two weeks and already 313 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 2: it's then. And why didn't she answer my question? Who 314 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 2: was working? Do you know what you did? Yeah? Exactly? Okay, Well, 315 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 2: I guess I'll respond. 316 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 3: I really want to know what the ask is going 317 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 3: to be. When she's really to be small small. 318 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: Ish, I can't remember what the term for it is, 319 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: but she will need a pitdlling amount of money. 320 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 3: She will keep her five dollars. It's either a bot 321 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 3: or some you know, criminal gang. It's not some buarded guy. 322 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 2: In his mom's basement. 323 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's more likely some port bastard and slaved 324 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: in Southeast Asia being. 325 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 3: Forced to do this. Well, because that's what a lot 326 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 3: of that is. That's not romantic, that's not my buttercup. 327 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 4: Yes, Skatie, Yeah, I think it'll be a small amount, 328 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 4: but for something that's very serious, she'll create some major 329 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 4: crisis and just be like, this is all I need, 330 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 4: though in order to fix it, and then it's going 331 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 4: to grow from there. 332 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 1: Look at it like a series of interviews. The you 333 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 1: responded was the first interview. We've looked at your resume 334 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 1: and it's pretty attractive. We'd like you to come back 335 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 1: for a second interview. The second interview is the can 336 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 1: we lure this guy into sending forty dollars on some pretext? 337 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: And if that happens, then you get the full court press. 338 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 1: They bring in their real pros. I am her precious Rose. 339 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:22,120 Speaker 2: At least that's what she says the Armstrong and Getty Show. Yeah, Marjah, 340 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 2: your show, podcasts and our hot links. 341 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:30,199 Speaker 3: So I mentioned this last week and we never got 342 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 3: around to it. I'm glad we are now and I'm 343 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:33,919 Speaker 3: looking forward to Joe's reaction to this. So this is 344 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 3: Ezra Kline of The New York Times on Lex Friedman's 345 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 3: podcast from a couple of weeks ago. And Lex Friedman's 346 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:43,880 Speaker 3: an interesting guy if you've never heard his podcasts. First 347 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:46,679 Speaker 3: of all, they're all two to four hours long, and 348 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 3: I don't know who listens to those old things. But 349 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:52,360 Speaker 3: he has people on of all different kinds of political 350 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 3: stripes and worldviews and stuff like that, and he just 351 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 3: wants to hear what they think. And he opened with 352 00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 3: this great question for Ezra Kline of the New York Times. 353 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 3: You don't know his act. 354 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 2: He is a. 355 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 3: Columnist, writer, liberal progressive, not a bomb chucker though that's 356 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,640 Speaker 3: just his I mean, he's a really smart he's an intellectual, 357 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 3: but he's a progressive. And Lex had him on to 358 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 3: say the first question was basically lay out the progressive 359 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:23,920 Speaker 3: point of view or the democrat point of view of 360 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 3: the worldview. And I thought, Okay, this is fantastic. I'm 361 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 3: going to hear this from a smart guy. And I thought, 362 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:32,919 Speaker 3: I am going to listen to this podcast in my 363 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 3: earbudgs as I was like doing laundry or something like that, 364 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 3: and I thought, I am going to, like, in a 365 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:39,680 Speaker 3: relax manner, listen to this, see if I can find 366 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 3: any common ground, Like fully understand you know where they're 367 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 3: coming from, right, not the cable news version, but like 368 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 3: the intellectual version of how they see the world. 369 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 2: And I didn't make it more than like thirty seconds. 370 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,920 Speaker 3: Before I said out loud in my bedroom, Oh, you've 371 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 3: got to be effing kidding me. 372 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 2: So this is how it went. 373 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 5: You can define the left in different ways. I think 374 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 5: the left has a couple fundamental views. One is that 375 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 5: life is unfair. We are born with different talents, We 376 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 5: are born into different nations, right. The luck of being 377 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 5: born into America is right, different than the luck of 378 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 5: being born into Venezuela. We are born into different families. 379 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:27,639 Speaker 5: We have luck operating as an ominive presence across our 380 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 5: entire lives, and as such, the people for whom it 381 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 5: works out. Well, we don't deserve all of that. We 382 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:37,919 Speaker 5: got lucky. I mean, we also worked hard, and we 383 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 5: also had talent, and we also applied that talent. But 384 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 5: at a very fundamental level, that we are sitting here 385 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:48,400 Speaker 5: is unfair, and that so many other people are in 386 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:52,640 Speaker 5: conditions that are much worse, much more precarious, much more exploited, 387 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 5: is unfair. And one of the fundamental roles of government 388 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 5: should not necessarily be to turn that unfairness in to 389 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 5: perfect equality, but to rectify that unfairness into a kind 390 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,640 Speaker 5: of universal dignity, right, so people can have lives of flourishing. 391 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: So I'd say that's one thing. He has a very 392 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 1: low voice for a child. Yeah, I'll hold back for now. 393 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,200 Speaker 1: I see what you mean. Though my eyes were wide. 394 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 2: You don't deserve that, That's what I said in my bedroom. 395 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 2: Oh you gotta be effing kidding me. Wow. 396 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:33,719 Speaker 1: Well, and I want to hear the next part, obviously, 397 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:37,159 Speaker 1: But he kind of denied his own purpose there at 398 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 1: the end, And we're not trying to come up with 399 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: some perfect equality. 400 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,200 Speaker 2: But yeah, let's hear a little more and then we 401 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 2: can discuss. 402 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:48,160 Speaker 5: The left is fundamentally more skeptical of capitalism and part 403 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 5: of the unchecked forms of capitalism than the right. I 404 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,199 Speaker 5: would think this is hard to talk about because what 405 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 5: we call unchecked capitalism is nevertheless very much supported by government. 406 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 5: So I think in a way you have both, like 407 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,160 Speaker 5: are things that are enforced by government, Whether they are 408 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 5: you know, how you set the rules of them is 409 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:06,440 Speaker 5: what ends up different between the left and the right. 410 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,199 Speaker 5: But the left tends to be more worried about the 411 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 5: fact that you could get rich building coal fired power 412 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 5: plants belching pollution into the air, and you could get 413 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 5: rich laying down solar panels, and the market doesn't know 414 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 5: the difference between the two. And so there's a set 415 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 5: of goals about regulating the unchecked potential of capitalism that 416 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 5: also relates to sort of exploitation of workers. There's like 417 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 5: very fundamental questions about how much people get paid, how 418 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 5: much power they have. Again, the rectification of economic and 419 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 5: other forms of power is very fundamental to the left. 420 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 2: Okay. 421 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 3: So it reminded me, of course, when Obama said, you 422 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 3: didn't build that, that attitude, and I thought, okay, as 423 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 3: Ezra client just laying that out a little more clearly. 424 00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 3: I heard a podcast with this guy. He's got the 425 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,199 Speaker 3: most famous economics podcast in America. 426 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 2: I can't remember what his name is, but. 427 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:09,440 Speaker 3: Anyway, and he's he leans left, but he his uh, 428 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 3: his take on the whole. Okay, even if you've got 429 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:17,440 Speaker 3: a situation where where you like, in the most blatant example, 430 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 3: it's not fair that this person, you know, they're born 431 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 3: with a better brain. Their parents got him a tutor, 432 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 3: they had connections to get him into a better school. 433 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 3: Whatever it is versus someone else, how is the government 434 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:33,880 Speaker 3: going to weigh in to fix it? He said? 435 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 2: Even if I buy. 436 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 3: All the lack of fairness, in what sense could you 437 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 3: structure a government that's gonna even that out that doesn't 438 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 3: do more harm than good? 439 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: Well, exactly that The last phrase is the key one. 440 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 1: And it is interesting to me to hear somebody who's 441 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 1: obviously fairly intelligent, like Ezra Klein, be so narrow in 442 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: his vision, so incredibly unwise to not recognize that if 443 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: you empower somebody. I was gonna summarize his creed with 444 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,680 Speaker 1: as the following, I'm so smart, I and people like 445 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: me should be in charge of everything because we will. 446 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:09,840 Speaker 2: Make it good. 447 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 1: But a guy who is reasonably intelligent to lack the 448 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 1: wisdom to see that a government empowered to right all 449 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 1: of these pique un wrongs or equalize somehow or other, 450 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: even if not a perfect equality, but like getting us 451 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 1: halfway there, that government would be so awesome and not 452 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: in the modern word like causing awe and horror, so 453 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: powerful and monumentally huge. 454 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:43,159 Speaker 2: It would be terrifying. How do you miss that? 455 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: As, Oh no, we would just do the good things, 456 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 1: not the bad stuff. 457 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 2: Well, right, and then. 458 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 3: The problem being that where you draw the line between 459 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 3: unfair advantages that people didn't earn and choices that you make, 460 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,640 Speaker 3: Because lots of people make really really bad. 461 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 2: Choices in life. 462 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 3: I've made bad choices in life that damaged me a lot, 463 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 3: and some people keep doing them. I don't dismiss the idea. 464 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 3: It's like I haven't told my story about the uber 465 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:12,440 Speaker 3: driver I. 466 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 2: Had the other day. Maybe I'll do that for the 467 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 2: podcast today. 468 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 3: But I was thinking, in that trip, which was really sketchy, 469 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 3: that this poor guy is never going to be able 470 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 3: to do very well in life. So I got a 471 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 3: better brain than he did. That is unfair, that's not 472 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 3: his fault, it's not my credit. But then he got 473 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 3: all the life choices that people make, And I've seen 474 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,679 Speaker 3: so many smart people make horrible life choices. What is 475 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,680 Speaker 3: the government gonna do to even out results there? 476 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 2: And I've known the proverbial c student. 477 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, absolutely, and I'm not gonna go with the 478 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 1: old trope that but they're very straight smart and blah 479 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 1: blah blah. No, I've known some people who aren't very bright, 480 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:59,639 Speaker 1: but they make good, sound moral decision after decision and 481 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: fitted quite nicely from those decisions. Anyway, what makes a 482 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: person though again in the morning and want to. 483 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 3: Pursue the idea of that person has more than that person. 484 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 2: We need to get them closer together. What is that well? 485 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: And the means that they use to pursue that goal 486 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 1: or are often horrible from my point of view. I mean, 487 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:23,719 Speaker 1: if you have a charitable view of the world and 488 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: you think I ought to do something to help those people, 489 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:31,239 Speaker 1: you have my full blessing until it becomes And what 490 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: I am going to do is, at the point of 491 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 1: the government's gun, take money from people and compel them 492 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 1: to do these things, because that's the opposite to generosity, that's, 493 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 1: you know, totalitarianism. I hate to even use the word 494 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: fairness in any context in this because it's become such 495 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 1: a cliche rhetorical cliche of the left, because people have 496 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: an instinctive view of what fairness is from childhood on. 497 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:01,160 Speaker 1: That is, everything should be fair. That's it least the ideal. 498 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:03,920 Speaker 1: Whereas you know, being born with a better brain or 499 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: a worse brain, or a taller, good looking or talented 500 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:11,639 Speaker 1: or whatever, that the difference among people is one hundred 501 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 1: percent fair. It's the very definition of fairness. Nothing has 502 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: been done by anybody to pervert the natural unfolding of it. 503 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: Nobody cheated anybody. 504 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,160 Speaker 3: Right the Jefferson idea of just you go as far 505 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 3: as your talent and effort will take you. 506 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 1: Right exactly that it's there could be nothing more fair. 507 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: Then you get dealt a hand in life. And then 508 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:45,879 Speaker 1: you've got to go from there with you know, the 509 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,439 Speaker 1: help of the people around you and the people care 510 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,360 Speaker 1: about you, and the government protecting your rights. That's why 511 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: the government exists, and off you go. Read Harrison Berger 512 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 1: on the Great Kurt Vonna Gets Short Story. If you 513 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,040 Speaker 1: don't have a lot of time, read Thomas Soule a 514 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: Conflict Divisions. If you have more about this sort of thing. 515 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: But I hate and it breaks my heart that my 516 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: daughter is autistic and life will always be extremely difficult 517 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 1: for her. I hate that, I adore her, but I 518 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 1: wouldn't use the word unfair to describe that. 519 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 2: It just is. 520 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 3: I got kicked off of a jury before I made it, 521 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 3: the only time I've ever made it this far to 522 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 3: like actually get into the courtroom and they started, the 523 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 3: lawyer start asking me questions, and the question that got 524 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 3: me kicked out was looking back to the starting point 525 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:45,360 Speaker 3: of your life where you've end up now, is it 526 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 3: more the circumstance you were born into or your life's choices. 527 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 3: And I went with life's choices, and that got me 528 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 3: kicked off the jury that I think life's choice is good, 529 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 3: bung fair good. Vocal fry from Ezrak Klein. I don't 530 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,159 Speaker 3: know why socialism goes with vocal fry. I don't know 531 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 3: why those two things go together. But I still think 532 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 3: life choices have more to do with it than where 533 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 3: you were born, who you were born to in brain 534 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:15,159 Speaker 3: power you have in terms where you're going to end 535 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 3: ultimately end up. And he obviously does not believe that. 536 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 2: Ya. 537 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 3: And then even if you agree with as recline, you're 538 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 3: still at the point. 539 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 2: Of how could the government fix that? Anyway? 540 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 4: Well? 541 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: Right, And my response to all of it would be 542 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: so what, So now what are you going to do? 543 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,920 Speaker 1: That is always the question at every moment of your life. Okay, 544 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 1: so now what are you going to do? 545 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 2: So, speaking of. 546 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: Policy, and this is so incredibly important, Jack is afraid 547 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 1: it will vanish into the dustbin of history, and I 548 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: think he's probably right. But now, even for instance, the 549 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 1: New York Times is admitting keeping the schools closed was 550 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: a horrific idea and utterly unnecessary. I called it a 551 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 1: disaster before. No Mount Krakatoa covering your village in Lava 552 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 1: is a disaster. This was a crime, a partisan political crime, 553 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 1: and the victims were children in society as a whole, and. 554 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 2: One of the worst things our government has ever done. Yes, 555 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 2: I would agree, absolutely, it was. 556 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 1: It was like the internment of the Japanese or whatever. 557 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 2: You could even make a case for that. 558 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 1: The scientific case for keeping the little kids out of 559 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 1: school was null and void. Within a few months of 560 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 1: the beginning of COVID anyway, New York Times writing haying 561 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,959 Speaker 1: the price school children in Massachusetts, Ohio and Pennsylvania are 562 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: still about a half year behind typical pre COVID reading levels. 563 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 1: In Florida and Michigan, the gap is about three quarters 564 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,719 Speaker 1: of a year. In Maine, Oregon, and Vermont, for instance, 565 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: it's close to a full year. This morning, group academic 566 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: researchers released their latest report card on pandemic learning loss 567 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 1: and it shows a disappointingly slow recovery in almost every state. 568 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 3: And maybe closures, yes, and maybe you're going to get 569 00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 3: into this or they get into this, but that's just 570 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 3: measuring the learning without measuring the disruption to classes. We've 571 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 3: heard from lots of teachers of kids are different now. 572 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 3: They missed a couple of years of having to sit 573 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 3: there and pay attention and get homework done, and they 574 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 3: just they're not You can't get them back in the group. 575 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 2: They don't really get into that. 576 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 1: And I'm really glad you brought that up, because the 577 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: socio psychological damage to kids, hell, that might make the 578 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 1: reading scores look like you know, Irish school closures during 579 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:29,959 Speaker 1: COVID set children back in most districts have not been 580 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 1: able to make up the lost ground, obviously, partly because kids, 581 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 1: when they're that young, they absorb information in a way 582 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 1: that I envy with every fiber of me. And you 583 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: can't just have them not do that for a while 584 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 1: and say all right, now we're going to do it 585 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 1: even more than usual. It's not the way kids work. Yeah, 586 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: does everybody not know that or whatever? 587 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 3: But anyway, up until about age eight, your brain runs 588 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 3: about a thousand times faster it does after that. You 589 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:55,720 Speaker 3: take a kid out of school for two years before 590 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 3: age eight, oh my god, you've done damage to them. 591 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 2: Yes, it's a horrifying yeah. 592 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 1: So, and here we get into a couple of the 593 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: more interesting specific aspects of this. One other reason for 594 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 1: the lack of, you know, catching up progress is school absences. 595 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 1: The huge rise has continued long after COVID, says Thomas Kana, 596 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 1: Harvard Economists, member of the research team that we're going 597 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: to talk about a little bit, said, the pandemic may 598 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: have been the earthquake, but heightened absenteeism is that tsunami. 599 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 2: And it's still rolling through school, right, that part, not 600 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 2: just not showing up to school, is still a problem. 601 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: And as I've said many times, when the New York 602 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 1: Times isn't being just unforgivably idiotically biased, they actually do 603 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: some pretty good deep dive reporting and they look into 604 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: the state variations. According to a new report from scholars 605 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,960 Speaker 1: at your big name universities comparing performances across states, I. 606 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 3: Hope you're not going to tell me that blue cities 607 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 3: and states even got poorer performance than red. 608 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 2: I hope you're not gonna have come. 609 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 1: I'm going to need you to sit down, needs you 610 00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: to brace yourself. Michael Jack's about to need a bit hug, 611 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: all right. You know how he loves that from other males. 612 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: So today's report shares a wide variety of outcomes in 613 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 1: the states that have made up the most ground. They're 614 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 1: getting close to how they were doing five years ago, 615 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: but the overall picture is not good. And I will 616 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,720 Speaker 1: skip some of the specific stats and get to what 617 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 1: they call the Blue Red divide. Political leaders in red 618 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 1: and blue America made different decisions during the pandemic. Gavin Newsom, 619 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 1: I'm looking at you, you lying monster. Chris Ker, child grooming scumback. 620 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 3: Because rage reads disdeath Santus and people like that wanted 621 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 3: kids to die for some reason. 622 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 2: They enjoy stacks of dead children at their skulls. 623 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 1: Right exactly, Many schools in heavily democratic area stayed closed 624 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: for almost a year from the spring of twenty twenty 625 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 1: to the spring of twenty twenty. 626 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,719 Speaker 2: One, or longer. It was longer than that around here 627 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 2: cal Unicornia. 628 00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, in some Republican areas, by contrast, schools remain closed 629 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: only for the spring of twenty twenty and opened right up. 630 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 2: And this helps explain a partisan gap in learning loss. 631 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 2: How do you get in this specific stass. 632 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 3: I can't believe this wasn't more fairly reported on or 633 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 3: discussed or whatever. I use this example all the time 634 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 3: because I got it in my own life. I got 635 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 3: two schools seven miles apart, the public school and the 636 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 3: private school. My son's now in. The private school barely 637 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 3: shut down at all. The public school was closed for 638 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 3: like two years, and there were not I was joking, 639 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 3: There were not stacks of dead children everywhere. 640 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,000 Speaker 2: No our teachers, no, no, our teachers. The private school 641 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 2: was fine. 642 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 3: Now, how do you explain that, teachers union public schools, 643 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 3: How do you explain that that school's open over there, 644 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 3: And it's not like they got tons extra money for 645 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 3: some sort of special ventilation or something like that. 646 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 2: What a joke. 647 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 1: Randy Weingarten, the head of the Big Teachers Union, who 648 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 1: is a demon from hell sent to punish us for 649 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 1: our sins, used it like a their unions did as leverage. 650 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:03,400 Speaker 1: You want the kids back in? I can tell you 651 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 1: really really want the kids back in. You got to 652 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: give us more money. You got to give us more 653 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 1: of this, You got to give us more of that. 654 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:10,319 Speaker 1: No than the kids stay home. 655 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,400 Speaker 3: I fully believe she was doing that and knew that, 656 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 3: and I honestly don't know how she sleeps at night. 657 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 2: I don't because she has no conscience. She's a monster. 658 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 3: You are a monster. You certainly don't care about children. 659 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,279 Speaker 3: I mean, you're beyond not caring about them, fine with 660 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,879 Speaker 3: them having awful lives if you can have more power, 661 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,920 Speaker 3: You're a disgusting human being. But you know what she's like, 662 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:32,080 Speaker 3: yah Ya Sinhlar of Hamas. 663 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 1: She cares in children inso much as they are leverage, 664 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:39,240 Speaker 1: just like Sinoar and Jmask here's about Palestinian citizens. 665 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 2: Deaths are leverage. 666 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, I put it in that category, but I know 667 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 3: plenty of teachers that that's not what their angle was. 668 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,360 Speaker 2: They believed the whole it was too dangerous to have 669 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,799 Speaker 2: schools open. Thing for summer. Yeah, yeah, because Trump said 670 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 2: it was good to open them. 671 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 1: The left went crazy explaining how incredibly unwise that would be, 672 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 1: and if there needed to be more horrifying irony for 673 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 1: the political left. 674 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:11,239 Speaker 2: All kids were hurt pretty badly. Poor kids were just decimated. 675 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:13,239 Speaker 2: Armstrong and