Speaker 1: This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
Speaker 1: Lazar and Alex bar Ba Lazar, Hello, everybody nailed it.
Speaker 2: Joined has always by our bar.
Speaker 1: Here is Evan Lazar and Alex bars I'm not saying
Speaker 1: you're wrong. I'm so fifty to fifty on that one.
Speaker 1: That was the hardest choice I made. Anthony Jennings, Mac Wilson.
Speaker 1: Which guy is it? But that's the hardest choice of
Speaker 1: all the stuff on the roster projection? Yeah, that was
Speaker 1: toughest one.
Speaker 2: What's tougher for you? The whole roster?
Speaker 1: Okay, right, go watch Save You're Worthy.
Speaker 2: We we do take a lot of pride and arguing
Speaker 2: about Anthony Jennings versus Mac.
Speaker 1: Apparently, I'm still mad you don't watch. I'm mad you
Speaker 1: still don't watch to Save your Worthy.
Speaker 2: Now I haven't. But also be careful about what you
Speaker 2: say about Mack Wilson because he's on the Twitter hunt.
Speaker 2: Is he that lately he's been He's been tweeting a lot.
Speaker 1: He's a good follow he is good for follow I
Speaker 1: saw it. So somebody tweeted him that they bought his
Speaker 1: jersey and they were like lifelong fan like that, like
Speaker 1: town proved the haters wrong. Yeah, and he tweeted back
Speaker 1: and he goes like, thanks, but I might get a
Speaker 1: new number. But don't worry. If I get a new number,
Speaker 1: I'll buy you a new jersey.
Speaker 2: Nice.
Speaker 1: That's awesome. That's the guy that gains.
Speaker 2: I'm not a you know, I'm not a big jersey
Speaker 2: number guy. You know that. But thirty on a linebacker
Speaker 2: is not my favorite. That's fair. I feel like linebackers,
Speaker 2: I want my linebackers in the fifties, you know, fifty
Speaker 2: to fifty one, fifty four.
Speaker 1: Some guys pull off the nineties numbers too.
Speaker 2: I feel like nineties is more like an edge though,
Speaker 2: Like I'm more thinking outside.
Speaker 1: Oh, like okay, yeah, middle linebacker.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I know that, you know, fifty four has
Speaker 2: got its lineage here, but yeah, like fifty four is
Speaker 2: the inside linebacker number to me, Like that's fifty to
Speaker 2: fifty two, fifty four or fifty one I think is
Speaker 2: good too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, yeah, there's not that many like inside linebackers.
Speaker 1: I'm like, was it Peter Bullwaer that wre ninety one
Speaker 1: or was it? I think so? And he played like
Speaker 1: next to Ray Lewis in the middle huh. That's that's
Speaker 1: I think the one kind of but I know it
Speaker 1: is Alex.
Speaker 2: And I will be with you for the next couple
Speaker 2: of hours. We do also have something on the docket
Speaker 2: for next week that we're looking forward to that we
Speaker 2: are are gonna put I'm going on on Vaca, Alex
Speaker 2: going on vacation for next week and gonna take a
Speaker 2: week off before the calm before the storm, which means
Speaker 2: that they'll sign DeAndre Hopkins and Dalvin Cook while I'm
Speaker 2: on Martha's vineyard in the whole world will turn upside down.
Speaker 2: But regardless, we're gonna have something for you next week
Speaker 2: at our usual times, So don't don't think that we're
Speaker 2: we're blowing you off a week before training camp, so
Speaker 2: be on the lookout for that. But today we're gonna
Speaker 2: really get into sort of the the meat and potatoes
Speaker 2: of our training camp review, just since I won't be
Speaker 2: here next week. So here here's the big part of
Speaker 2: the show will be we're gonna go position by a
Speaker 2: position again. But instead of going throughout the whole roster
Speaker 2: and talking like we did we did the roster projection show,
Speaker 2: We're gonna change it a little bit and do one
Speaker 2: big thing, one big thing at each position group. It
Speaker 2: can be a position battle like you know, training camp battle.
Speaker 2: It can be an individual player, it can be you know, whatever,
Speaker 2: whatever we want to do, we can do with Dad.
Speaker 2: And we'll also talk a little bit about what's going
Speaker 2: on in the news. Not much going on in the news,
Speaker 2: but I do want to get our evolving weekly. We
Speaker 2: have to have a weekly DeAndre Hopkins check in.
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 2: You have to know where you're at weekly at this
Speaker 2: point with that one. So let's just get that out
Speaker 2: of the way really quickly, and then we'll get into
Speaker 2: the camp preview and you can call an eight five
Speaker 2: to five Pats five hundred email in at web radio
Speaker 2: at Patriots dot com, and we can weigh in on
Speaker 2: anything that you want to weigh in on there as well.
Speaker 2: But with DeAndre Hopkins, Alex, the more that this plays out,
Speaker 2: the more I am concerned that the Patriots are essentially
Speaker 2: I wouldn't even call it leverage. I would call a
Speaker 2: fallback plan for DeAndre Hopkins where if it had to
Speaker 2: come down to the Patriots of the Titans I think
Speaker 2: coming to New England. But the team that I continue
Speaker 2: to just be afraid of is Kansas City. If they
Speaker 2: get that Chris Jones contract extension done, they get some money,
Speaker 2: Maybe they convert some salaries to signing bonuses and things
Speaker 2: like that to get further under the cap. That seems
Speaker 2: like a great situation for him to play off of
Speaker 2: Travis Kelce and they could use it. I think last
Speaker 2: year they Mahomes Magic kind of put them over the
Speaker 2: top without tyreek Hill, but maybe that seeps in a
Speaker 2: little bit more for them two years are moved from
Speaker 2: trading Tyreek Hill that they don't really have that other
Speaker 2: guy besides Kelsey, So I think that they're a team
Speaker 2: that's lurking. Obviously Buffalo some of the rumors out there
Speaker 2: that they would take them at a discount, like a
Speaker 2: ring chasing type contract. He kind of called them out
Speaker 2: though and said, yeah, he's not doing that, So we'll see.
Speaker 2: But what's your where's your meter at right now? As
Speaker 2: you're check in on DeAndre Hopkins.
Speaker 1: I still think if if things stay the way they
Speaker 1: currently are, which isn't going to happen. It's the NFL
Speaker 1: things happen. But if things stay the way they currently are,
Speaker 1: I think he signs with Patriots, but that means the
Speaker 1: Chiefs don't open up more money. That means nobody gets hurt.
Speaker 1: That means, you know, on and on and on. And
Speaker 1: there was that report last week from Mike Reese that
Speaker 1: the Titans were being more aggressive and the Patriots kind
Speaker 1: of you know, they had their meeting and went from there,
Speaker 1: and a lot of people interpreted that as the Titans
Speaker 1: offered more money. I actually interpreted a little differently. I
Speaker 1: read that as the Titans made their offer and since
Speaker 1: have been saying, come on, man, looking forward to hearing
Speaker 1: from you what you got. You made it, you made
Speaker 1: up your mind, like they're battering him. Whereas the Patriots
Speaker 1: they put their offer on the table, they said, this
Speaker 1: is it. Yeah, let us know, call us, you know,
Speaker 1: we'll be here. And people may hear that and think
Speaker 1: of it as the Patriots being lazy. I don't think
Speaker 1: it is. Everybody's different. Some people don't like you know,
Speaker 1: he may have made it clear to them. I want
Speaker 1: to make my decision. I don't want to hear from you.
Speaker 1: Some people just operate that way. Maybe or maybe he didn't,
Speaker 1: and maybe this is just how they do business. Just
Speaker 1: this is our offer, take it or leave it. But
Speaker 1: it does feel like they are kind of sitting back
Speaker 1: and letting everything else develop. And I've said this before,
Speaker 1: I think they got to be aggressive if they really
Speaker 1: want to get this guy. I don't think this is
Speaker 1: a situation where you can just sit back and let
Speaker 1: the cards fall. Now, maybe if the circumstances seriously change,
Speaker 1: maybe if the Chiefs open up the money or somebody
Speaker 1: gets hurt, then they go and they say, all right,
Speaker 1: we realize your market's changed, and we're going to adjust
Speaker 1: our offer accordingly. But again, I think right now, if
Speaker 1: he had to decide today, he's a Patriot, but he
Speaker 1: doesn't have to decide today, and there's still a lot
Speaker 1: of time for things to change.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a good way of putting it.
Speaker 2: I always look at the Patriots with contract negotiations, and
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that it's necessarily a perfect approach because
Speaker 2: it has. I think it's cost them players, and I
Speaker 2: think it's also gotten them players, right, you know. I
Speaker 2: think it's gone both ways over the years. But they're
Speaker 2: one of those teams that puts an offer out early,
Speaker 2: puts out an inquiry early. Sometimes it's not even a
Speaker 2: formal offer, just kind of floats their interest early and
Speaker 2: then maybe late in the process, one last phone call
Speaker 2: right of what's the number? What what? What do you think?
Speaker 2: And you know, And that's what my point is, I guess,
Speaker 2: is that the Patriots' most aggressive offer is never their
Speaker 2: first offer.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: They're not one of those teams that typically Now there's
Speaker 2: some exceptions, I think like Stefan Gilmour might have been
Speaker 2: an exception where they just immediately put the brinkstruck in
Speaker 2: the in the parking lot and said here you go, right,
Speaker 2: But I think that for the most part, they're a
Speaker 2: team that that tends to lurk more than they pounce,
Speaker 2: and late in the process maybe they get to the
Speaker 2: point where they say, all right, now we're gonna we're
Speaker 2: gonna offer you the big deal, or now we're gonna
Speaker 2: show you some legitimate aggressiveness or interest in the player.
Speaker 2: And I don't think DeAndre Hopkins is all that different.
Speaker 2: So that's where things stand now, turning the page to
Speaker 2: our our training camp preview, here a little bit where
Speaker 2: we're gonna operate under the assumption offensively and that wide receiver.
Speaker 2: When we get to wide receivers specifically, that deal and
Speaker 2: Hopkins is not a patriot untill he's a patriot, He's
Speaker 2: not a patriot, right, So just putting that caveat aside,
Speaker 2: I do want to start with the quarterbacks. I think
Speaker 2: the biggest thing from a training camp perspective. We've talked
Speaker 2: about how you're not really gonna learn what we need
Speaker 2: to learn about the quarterbacks and about Mac Jones in August,
Speaker 2: like this is more a conversation for like January. But
Speaker 2: in terms of what we've seen so far, I'm not
Speaker 2: expecting and we're not expecting. I think I can speak
Speaker 2: for you on this to see a quarterback competition in
Speaker 2: two weeks, Like, I don't think we're going to be
Speaker 2: seeing what we saw a couple of years ago with
Speaker 2: Cam Newton and Mac or Cam Newton and Jared Stidham
Speaker 2: and Brian Hoyer in the twenty twenty season. I don't
Speaker 2: think we're going to get into that sort of thing
Speaker 2: this offseason, which I do believe and I'm on the
Speaker 2: record with saying is a good thing. I think it's
Speaker 2: a waste of time. I don't think that it's really
Speaker 2: something that bet ifits anybody, if the two players were
Speaker 2: if I really thought bailey 'z appy was like a
Speaker 2: potential long term anser. Then maybe when it was like
Speaker 2: Cam Newton versus Mac, like totally different scenario, right right,
Speaker 2: this is I feel like the best thing interested the
Speaker 2: team is to go in all in one more year
Speaker 2: with Mac and see where you come out with it.
Speaker 2: I know that they were teasing me on unfiltered about
Speaker 2: seeing Mac yesterday and and chatting with him really quickly.
Speaker 2: But the one thing that I'm not gonna tell the
Speaker 2: story again, but the one thing that I'll take away
Speaker 2: from that he does look good, Alex, do you like
Speaker 2: hearing that he does look good? Yeah, he looks swoll,
Speaker 2: he looks a little thing.
Speaker 1: Wait, it's almost the best shape of his life season, So.
Speaker 2: I don't I'm not gonna say best shape of his
Speaker 2: life because I don't know the best shape he's been
Speaker 2: in his life. I don't know if he would agree
Speaker 2: with that statement. I also don't know, you know, I
Speaker 2: don't know how much it means, probably nothing. But what
Speaker 2: I will say is that he looks he looks ripped like,
Speaker 2: he looks like he's in good shape. He looks like
Speaker 2: he's ready to go. He he sounds like he's ready
Speaker 2: to go. So I think that the quarterback's in a
Speaker 2: good mindset right now, and we'll see what happens. But
Speaker 2: my big thing with the quarterbacks remains consistent, and that
Speaker 2: is you don't necessari I'm not at contract stage. I
Speaker 2: know the fifth year options coming up next off season.
Speaker 2: They do have some sort of deadline to make a
Speaker 2: contract decision. What I'm more interested in is is Mac
Speaker 2: a truck or is he a trailer?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 2: Is he somebody that can put the team on his back?
Speaker 2: Is he somebody that can lead them to wins? Or
Speaker 2: is he somebody that they're simply going to win with
Speaker 2: and if they're gonna only win with him. I'm not
Speaker 2: as against that as I think some other people are.
Speaker 2: Like to some people, I'm just generalizing, you either have
Speaker 2: Patrick Mahomes or you don't. You either have Tom Brady
Speaker 2: or you don't, and everybody it's it's like Patrick Mahomes,
Speaker 2: it's Joe Burrow and maybe for some people not you,
Speaker 2: but for some people it's Josh Allen And then like
Speaker 2: everybody else just stinks right like that that's how some
Speaker 2: people operate. I'm not like that. I do think that
Speaker 2: you can win with more of like a serviceable average
Speaker 2: game manager, whatever whatever name you want to put on
Speaker 2: it type of quarterback. But again, if they picked that road,
Speaker 2: then they need to reflect that in the way that
Speaker 2: they build up the rest of the ross around him.
Speaker 2: They can't keep doing the same things that they did
Speaker 2: with Brady if they don't have an elite level quarterback.
Speaker 2: I'm not ruling out elite for mac Jones. I don't
Speaker 2: think it's gonna be a leap intol elite status. But
Speaker 2: I'm not ruling out a significantly better season for mac
Speaker 2: Jones then maybe even his rookie year in terms of
Speaker 2: esthetic Like I don't know if the statistics will be
Speaker 2: a lot better than his rookie year, but like how
Speaker 2: it looks and how it feels, I think that we
Speaker 2: could be taught having a much different conversation in six months.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think he can be better than
Speaker 1: he was as a rookie. Absolutely. I agree with a
Speaker 1: lot of what you said. You know, we're not gonna
Speaker 1: get the reel answer on him until least Thanksgiving. None
Speaker 1: of that's happening in camp. The one thing I'll be
Speaker 1: looking for for mac Jones and camp specifically, is how
Speaker 1: comfortable does he look in the pocket, because last year,
Speaker 1: the first inclination that something was wrong was he was
Speaker 1: sped up. And I I feel like I give this
Speaker 1: explanation a lot, but I think it's really important for
Speaker 1: people to understand this. What sped up means. And every
Speaker 1: quarterback in their career has gotten sped up to some extent.
Speaker 1: Tom Brady would get sped up on the time from
Speaker 1: time to time. What sped up means is, you know,
Speaker 1: for an example, on a given play, okay, I need
Speaker 1: three seconds to get like the route it's gonna take
Speaker 1: three seconds to develop. You know I have three seconds
Speaker 1: to get this ball out, and you know you're gonna
Speaker 1: have the three seconds. Now, if all of a sudden
Speaker 1: you start getting hit at two point five, two point
Speaker 1: six seconds, then all of a sudden your internal timings
Speaker 1: thrown off, and then you start rushing things because even then,
Speaker 1: when you have the time, you don't know if you do.
Speaker 1: And Mac behind that offensive line last year and in
Speaker 1: an offense where the route patterns didn't match up with
Speaker 1: what he was being asked to do, and they didn't
Speaker 1: match up with each other, the timing was all off,
Speaker 1: and he got sped up and he never they were
Speaker 1: never able to reset his internal clock. Yeah, and everything
Speaker 1: snowballed from there. So and look, some times, like I said,
Speaker 1: Tom Brady would get sped up in individual games here
Speaker 1: and there, and he was very good about all right,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna, you know, gota calm down, reset and
Speaker 1: they'll figure it out now. He also played behind much
Speaker 1: better offensive lines than what Mac Jones might play behind
Speaker 1: this year, especially at the tackle position. But some quarterbacks
Speaker 1: get sped up and they recover. Some quarterbacks get sped
Speaker 1: up and they never recover. That's what happened to Josh Rosen.
Speaker 1: Josh Rosen played behind the worst offensive line the NFL
Speaker 1: see in the last ten years, and he was panicky
Speaker 1: the rest of his career in the pocket. He never
Speaker 1: got over that. I'm not saying Mac Jones is gonna
Speaker 1: be Josh Rosen because I don't think he ever got
Speaker 1: sped up to that extent. But the biggest thing for
Speaker 1: me in camp is does he look comfortable in the pocket?
Speaker 1: Does he look confident in the pocket? Is he stepping
Speaker 1: into throws? Is he rushing throws? All of that? Was
Speaker 1: he able to kind of reset himself mentally from where
Speaker 1: he was at last year dealing with that pass rush. Now,
Speaker 1: I think O'Brien's offense is really gonna help because it's
Speaker 1: a quick release offense. He's not gonna have as many
Speaker 1: instances where he's sitting back in the pocket for three
Speaker 1: three and a half four seconds. It's gonna be more
Speaker 1: two to two and a half con But you know, again,
Speaker 1: we're not gonna get the big picture answer on mac
Speaker 1: Jones that everybody wants in that fifty year option. We
Speaker 1: can't even start talking about that until like Thanksgiving, But
Speaker 1: that's gonna be the first inclination again, is how comfortable
Speaker 1: does he look in the pocket?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's a great point. And I think that
Speaker 2: it goes back to what I always think about it
Speaker 2: with any play, but with quarterbacks especially is what is
Speaker 2: mac Jones's carrying trait? Like what is his best attributes
Speaker 2: that allow him to whatever level of quarterback you think
Speaker 2: he was a couple of years ago, but like just
Speaker 2: be in the NFL, Like just be a starting quarterback.
Speaker 1: And it's his accuracy and especially his an intermediate accuracy
Speaker 1: and his football like Q. And I think the offense
Speaker 1: he was in for the majority last year minimized those
Speaker 1: traits and that's why a lot of people are sitting
Speaker 1: here saying, well, what exactly is it that Mac Jones
Speaker 1: does best. It's hard to tell because last year the
Speaker 1: things he does best weren't put on display, right.
Speaker 2: And that's if he can get back to being that
Speaker 2: smart and thinctive, quick decision making, accurate thrower that he
Speaker 2: was at Alabama and that he was in his rookie
Speaker 2: season with the Patriots, then I think their offense it
Speaker 2: will be fine. I definitely still have question marks about
Speaker 2: his ceiling as a quarterback in this league. You know what,
Speaker 2: what are that's fair? What are his physical ceilings? You know?
Speaker 2: What is his ability to create it out of structure
Speaker 2: as a big one obviously nowadays with all these mobile
Speaker 2: and athletic quarterbacks playing the position, but also just his
Speaker 2: ability to put the team on his back in the
Speaker 2: clutch moments and some of those intangible type of things
Speaker 2: like I'm not a big clutch guy like I take
Speaker 2: which is kind of hard to believe when you watch
Speaker 2: Tom Brady for twenty years.
Speaker 1: But I'm just I still, well, is it possible that
Speaker 1: you take it for granted?
Speaker 2: No? I just think that like what you're when you say,
Speaker 2: like a quarterback like Brady's clutch. What you're just really
Speaker 2: saying is that Tom Brady's really freaking good.
Speaker 1: Right, So, like, no, there's something for some players struggle
Speaker 1: in big moments.
Speaker 2: I guess. But if you look at like the like
Speaker 2: the leaders in fourth quarter comebacks and game winning drives, right,
Speaker 2: it's just the greatest quarterbacks of all time. Okay, the
Speaker 2: problem is oh okay, so like Tom Brady and Peyton
Speaker 2: Manning are one and two. But I would for quarter
Speaker 2: comebacks like shocker.
Speaker 1: I would say the fourth quarter comeback. And this is
Speaker 1: completely different conversation, but the fourth quarter comeback stat itself
Speaker 1: is flawed, not the concept of clutch. Because if you
Speaker 1: get the ball to start a third quarter down two
Speaker 1: start or towards the end of the third quarter down
Speaker 1: to start driving down the field, getting a field goal,
Speaker 1: arrange third quarter ends, first play the fourth quarter, you
Speaker 1: kick a field goal, yeah, and then you put up
Speaker 1: and then you know, next defense possession, you get to
Speaker 1: pick six. Now you're up two scores, you coast the
Speaker 1: rest of the way. That's a fourth quarter comeback. No, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know there's some subject the stats. I would say
Speaker 1: that clutch is an unmeasurable clutch. It's just an unmeasurable
Speaker 1: That's fine.
Speaker 2: I just again, I feel like the quarterbacks that win
Speaker 2: playoff games and there clutch tend to just be the
Speaker 2: good quarterbacks. But that's besides the point. It's a semantics argument. Yeah,
Speaker 2: But I think the biggest thing with Mac is, you know,
Speaker 2: he has to give back to those carrying traits, like
Speaker 2: that's what makes you great. And I think last year
Speaker 2: at times, a lot of it was what they were
Speaker 2: asking him to do. Like you laid out, it felt
Speaker 2: like he was trying too too hard to like be
Speaker 2: a playmaker back there and let and make things happen.
Speaker 2: And when he's at his best, it just it's in rhythm,
Speaker 2: it's in sync, and it just kind of he's just
Speaker 2: distributing the ball so that it just happens on it naturally, right.
Speaker 2: There's it's not forced. Like when you watch Mac at Alabama,
Speaker 2: and I know it's a different game and he played
Speaker 2: with all these receivers YadA, YadA, YadA, we all know.
Speaker 2: But when you watch him at Alabama, it never looked hard, right,
Speaker 2: And it never looked hard. It never looked like he
Speaker 2: was forcing the issue. It never looked like he had
Speaker 2: to pull something out of his out of his back
Speaker 2: pocket or anything like that. And that's when I'm gonna
Speaker 2: know that Mac is back on the right track is
Speaker 2: when last year it looked hard for him. It looked overwhelming,
Speaker 2: He looked overwhelmed, he was frustrated. It showed visibly, but
Speaker 2: it also showed on the film like at what point
Speaker 2: it needs to look easy for him again? And he's
Speaker 2: that type of guy. He's not. I think sometimes that
Speaker 2: it looks hard for Josh Allen to play quarterback, but
Speaker 2: he's just so physically gifted that it doesn't matter a
Speaker 2: lot of the time, right he just overcomes it. I
Speaker 2: think Mac Jones is a natural quarterback that just needs
Speaker 2: to make it look easy. And we'll see if you
Speaker 2: can get back to that. And the last thing you
Speaker 2: mentioned pressure he missed the patients in the pocket. A
Speaker 2: lot of that comes from knowing where your answers are right,
Speaker 2: and I think that's when it comes back to the
Speaker 2: coordination too, Like if they have this blitz on, like
Speaker 2: how are we sliding the protection, how are we picking
Speaker 2: it up? Where's the hot route? Where's the distribution? Like
Speaker 2: where am I getting the football out to? Like those
Speaker 2: types of things are really really key. We got a
Speaker 2: cool email. I want to read an email right off
Speaker 2: the top. This is from Jeremiah, who is one of
Speaker 2: the lucky thirty kids that got to catch passes from
Speaker 2: Mac Jones yesterday at his clinic here at ja Led
Speaker 2: Stadium from the YMCA. I'm sorry, I'm blanking on where
Speaker 2: the YMCN was located, but he's actually a big fan
Speaker 2: of the show. Apparently. Oh nice, And he emailed it
Speaker 2: and he said, yesterday I was fortunate enough to catch
Speaker 2: passes from Mac and from first hand point of view,
Speaker 2: he did have a first hand point of view, it
Speaker 2: felt like he had some good velocity on the ball,
Speaker 2: so you know, to throw that. Phil Perry posted on
Speaker 2: Twitter it wasn't seventy yards in the air, okay, That
Speaker 2: football field is in the full hundred. That aside, it
Speaker 2: was probably like sixty right, like fifty to sixty yards
Speaker 2: in the air. I'm not good with I'm terrible at that.
Speaker 2: Like the landmarks and stuff, I'm terrible at it. I
Speaker 2: need rulers. Anyways, I was standing on the far end
Speaker 2: of the end zone from where he was throwing the football.
Speaker 2: You can actually see me in my gray polo off
Speaker 2: to the side if you look really closely. So I
Speaker 2: was to se in the far side of the field
Speaker 2: from where he was throwing that ball, and you could
Speaker 2: hear it. You could hear it like you could hear
Speaker 2: the wiz, the whizzing right of the ball going through
Speaker 2: the air. And I actually said to one of our
Speaker 2: our social guys I was standing next to me, I
Speaker 2: said that, you know, the ball that's got some zip
Speaker 2: on it, like these are these are some These are
Speaker 2: some fastballs. You know. He wasn't like going easy on
Speaker 2: these kids. He was. He was throwing some some real
Speaker 2: darts out there. I do think he looks a little
Speaker 2: bit stronger. I do think the ball's coming out well.
Speaker 2: I think his mechanics look good. Now, granted this was
Speaker 2: against air with absolutely no competition on the field whatsoever.
Speaker 2: But that's what it comes down to, uh for mac
Speaker 2: is we even last year, even with as big of
Speaker 2: a disaster as it was around him last year, his
Speaker 2: kept clean numbers were still good. He grated out well
Speaker 2: when he was kept clean. His passer rating was over
Speaker 2: one hundred when he was kept clean. In the pocket,
Speaker 2: we know that he can throw, He can go out
Speaker 2: there and sling it like that. All day long. He
Speaker 2: can do it. The question is going to ultimately be
Speaker 2: a we can he do it under pressure? Can he
Speaker 2: do it under duress? Can he do it from a
Speaker 2: muddied pocket when he can't step into it and really
Speaker 2: put his weight behind the football and he has to
Speaker 2: just kind of flick the wrists? Like can he get
Speaker 2: it there?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 2: Those are the things that are going to be the
Speaker 2: big thing. But Jeremiah your one hundred percent right. That
Speaker 2: ball had some heat on it yesterday.
Speaker 1: But the other thing is, you know, I remember if
Speaker 1: he called it a catchable ball, like when he came
Speaker 1: out all the receivers, all the Pitcher series, the kid
Speaker 1: caught that pass. Oh yeah, that's impressive. It was a
Speaker 1: great catch. Yeah, doesn't say now my first.
Speaker 2: Route because obviously I wasn't like really thinking of football
Speaker 2: implications of Mac Jones throwing passes to teenagers, right, So
Speaker 2: I wasn't standing there great in the throws or anything.
Speaker 2: But it was a hell of a catch. I don't
Speaker 2: think I could have caught that. Honestly, I'm going to
Speaker 2: be honest about it. I don't think I would have
Speaker 2: caught it. It had zip it and it was deep,
Speaker 2: you know, we're talking about fifty yards. I think it
Speaker 2: was probably if I'm going to be I might say
Speaker 2: it was like fifty five to sixty. I'm gonna say
Speaker 2: it was probably like fifty to fifty five. But regardless,
Speaker 2: it was a good throw. Let's move on to to
Speaker 2: running backs here and then we'll take some of these
Speaker 2: calls after that. So with running backs, you know, I
Speaker 2: think we didn't really do the one big thing thing.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna tee that up better this time. Yeah, my
Speaker 2: one big thing with running backs is Pierre Strong. I'm
Speaker 2: gonna continue hit hammering the table for Pierre Strong. Look,
Speaker 2: I'm a sucker for big plays. I'm a sucker for
Speaker 2: explosive offense, and there just aren't that many guys on
Speaker 2: this roster that have that big play capability outside of
Speaker 2: Pierre Strong and probably Taekwon Thornton, right, Like, those are
Speaker 2: the two guys that can really bring that speed element.
Speaker 2: If I'm Bill O'Brien, other than remondros Stevenson. Of course,
Speaker 2: I'm trying to find ways to get Pierre Strong to
Speaker 2: football in space. And it's not that it's not that complicated,
Speaker 2: Like we're not putting too much on his play just
Speaker 2: throw him the screen here or there, hand the ball
Speaker 2: off to him, and so subpackage looks where there's some
Speaker 2: space to run. Maybe hit him on a swing pass
Speaker 2: coming out of the backfield. Every once in a while,
Speaker 2: let's just see what Pierre Strong can do with the
Speaker 2: football in his hands. And I would also say that
Speaker 2: that being my one big thing, that running back is
Speaker 2: also tied to some of the free agent running backs
Speaker 2: that are available that we've talked about a lot, Dalvin Cook,
Speaker 2: Zeke Elliott, Leonard Fournette. If it's not coming together for
Speaker 2: Pierre Strong and it doesn't look like he's gonna be
Speaker 2: somebody that you can count on in year two, if
Speaker 2: some of those guys are unsigned May and August, you know,
Speaker 2: going into that big like ten day layoff between the
Speaker 2: third preseason game and the first regular season game in
Speaker 2: the opener against the Eagles, and you're not really feeling
Speaker 2: great about Pierre Strong and Kevin Harris, then maybe it's
Speaker 2: time to call Zeke, right, Like, maybe that's when you
Speaker 2: make one of those phone calls. So it's twofold one.
Speaker 2: I think that he is a legitimate, big play weapon
Speaker 2: that they should get involved and see, even if it's
Speaker 2: just four or five times a game just to try
Speaker 2: to get him a touch and get him out in
Speaker 2: the open field. I'd love to see that, but you
Speaker 2: also have to see something from him to be able
Speaker 2: to put some pressure or to be able to back
Speaker 2: up Ramondri Stevenson and be able to avoid having to
Speaker 2: go into the free agent market, because I do think
Speaker 2: we could wake up in six weeks and they might
Speaker 2: be signing a running back because they don't feel great
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 1: So I'm actually gonna take a step further back than
Speaker 1: where you're at. My big thing is just what is
Speaker 1: Ramondre Stevenson's role? Yeah, what do we think? Some of
Speaker 1: this goes into preseason as well, But I've said this
Speaker 1: a lot. They overworked him last year. They overworked him
Speaker 1: and he cannot be I don't think any running back
Speaker 1: in the modern game, outside of maybe Derek Henry and
Speaker 1: even he you start seeing him at the end of
Speaker 1: the year. I don't think any running back in the
Speaker 1: modern game could be like a three hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: touch player. It's just the game's too physical now.
Speaker 2: He is that what like to eighty Last year?
Speaker 1: I think it was too was that carries. He was
Speaker 1: pretty high up there, and he was fifth in the
Speaker 1: league in touches last year in the regular season, which
Speaker 1: is look, somebody's got to be fifth, obviously, but you
Speaker 1: look at the teams that were ahead of the Patriots there.
Speaker 1: It's just it's not sustainable. Two hundred and eighty touches
Speaker 1: last year. But I say three fifty, I meant two
Speaker 1: to fifty. You certainly can't be a three hundred.
Speaker 2: Think I touchdouya nine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like two snaps off on Anthony Jennings
Speaker 1: last week and you got odd me for it. So no,
Speaker 1: it is two seventy nine you said to eighty.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, but giving it to myself.
Speaker 1: I'm not anyway. He needs less of a role. And
Speaker 1: that's not me saying he's bad. I think he's a
Speaker 1: great player. But it's more of a quality over quantity thing.
Speaker 1: I actually think if you take some of the lesser
Speaker 1: impact snaps off his plate, he's going to give you
Speaker 1: more in the big moments late in the year. Last year,
Speaker 1: after that Cincinnati game where he fumbled late in the game,
Speaker 1: he admitted that he was kind of banged up. It
Speaker 1: was getting to him. Yeah, So that's what I mean
Speaker 1: by it's not that I think he's bad. I want
Speaker 1: him on the field, but I want him on the
Speaker 1: field at his best. And I remember there was a
Speaker 1: game last year, I don't remember which game it was,
Speaker 1: but they were up like two scores late in the game,
Speaker 1: h with like a minute and a half to go,
Speaker 1: and they were still giving the bald to Stevenson to
Speaker 1: run out the clock, and it was like, he doesn't
Speaker 1: need to be in the game right now. Kevin Harris,
Speaker 1: Pierre Strong, somebody.
Speaker 2: I think it was Detroit. I don't think they had
Speaker 2: another run.
Speaker 1: I think it was Detroit. You're right, they didn't have
Speaker 1: another back. So okay, that brings me back to my point,
Speaker 1: like what is his Where are they taking those snaps
Speaker 1: away from? Is he going to be the primary early
Speaker 1: down back and then it's Pierre stronger time Montgomery on
Speaker 1: third down? Is he going to be in that James
Speaker 1: White role and it's Kevin Harris or maybe they signed somebody,
Speaker 1: or maybe it is Pierre Strong. Is a change of
Speaker 1: pace back and then early down back or do they
Speaker 1: just take half of each? Remember this is what it
Speaker 1: looked like they're gonna do last year, before time Montgomery
Speaker 1: got hurt, it looked like they were gonna go away
Speaker 1: from the early down passing down back layout and basically,
Speaker 1: all right, this is a Remandree drive. This is a
Speaker 1: Time Montgomery drive. This is a Damien Harris Hraff. I
Speaker 1: actually like that set up better. Now, it's really hard
Speaker 1: to do.
Speaker 2: If you like that set up better than you should
Speaker 2: want Dalvin Cook in this building.
Speaker 1: I never said I don't want Dalvin Cook. I would
Speaker 1: just rather have DeAndre Hawkins.
Speaker 2: H me too. But I'm just saying, like I said this, well,
Speaker 2: what about Leonard Fournette if you if you're not gonna
Speaker 2: get DeAndre Hopkins, we're operating on that assumption, Like, wouldn't
Speaker 2: you then just turned to say, let's just go all in?
Speaker 1: Then yeah, I guess see, well I would almost go
Speaker 1: off for Marcus Peters some money.
Speaker 2: But at that point I don't think that they will.
Speaker 1: I don't think they will either. But uh the point,
Speaker 1: going going back to the point and butt, Leonard Fournette
Speaker 1: could do this too if they don't get cooked. Right,
Speaker 1: But it was like, all right, this is a Remondre
Speaker 1: drive all the way through, whatever the situation. This is
Speaker 1: a Time on Coverage drive all the way through. This
Speaker 1: is Damien Harris drive all the way through. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: hate them going back to that format either. But before
Speaker 1: we can get into is Pierre Strong the guy to
Speaker 1: replace James White? Is Kevin Harris ready to take on
Speaker 1: a more regular early down back roll? And those are
Speaker 1: all good questions that we'll start answering as well. That's
Speaker 1: a big position battle, essentially the second running back, But
Speaker 1: we don't know what the second running backs duties are
Speaker 1: going to be because there was no second running back.
Speaker 1: That's the true point, right, So let's figure out what
Speaker 1: Ramondre Stevenson's doing. And then when we find out, all right,
Speaker 1: here's what Ramondre's doing, here's what the other guy's doing,
Speaker 1: then we can look at it and say, okay, here's
Speaker 1: the one right, here's what the responsibility is for RB two.
Speaker 1: Who fits it best? Because Strong, Harris, and Montgomery are
Speaker 1: all very different players. Yeah, they all bring very different
Speaker 1: things to the table. So that is you're like the
Speaker 1: thing about Pierre Strong. I'm not saying you're wrong, but
Speaker 1: I think to know what the running back this is
Speaker 1: gonna be, it all starts with Andre Stevenson. We need
Speaker 1: to know what his role is going to be, and
Speaker 1: then we go from there.
Speaker 2: So I want to spend this for it and I'm
Speaker 2: sorry to the calls, but we're like on a roll
Speaker 2: here and I don't want to I want to get
Speaker 2: this out first. We're gonna get to you in the second.
Speaker 2: I promise. I wanted to talk about tight ends for
Speaker 2: a second because to me, this I think is like
Speaker 2: the biggest X factor of this team offensively, assuming again,
Speaker 2: no Hopkins, no external ad right, I think the biggest
Speaker 2: X factor for this team right now is Hunter Henry
Speaker 2: and Mikeasicki coexisting and being a better duo than Jona
Speaker 2: Smith and Hunter Henry. Because if this tight end duo
Speaker 2: can really be a factor this year, I think it
Speaker 2: helps the team into two ways. One obviously, it helps
Speaker 2: the team because those guys are going to be productive
Speaker 2: and that just inherently helps the team on an individual
Speaker 2: level that they're going to be productive. But I think
Speaker 2: the other thing that it really helps the team with
Speaker 2: is they become one of those twelve personnel offenses that
Speaker 2: is really multiple and now what you can really do
Speaker 2: is you have an answer to whatever test the defense
Speaker 2: throws out on the field against you. When I'm talking
Speaker 2: more personnel wise than schematically like and then like you know,
Speaker 2: actual play design personnel wise, if defenses match their twelve
Speaker 2: personnel with standard nickel, that means that somebody is getting
Speaker 2: a linebacker in coverage, right It just by the sheer
Speaker 2: numbers of it. Somebody is getting a linebacker in coverage,
Speaker 2: whether it's Kasiki or Henry or Remandre right or one
Speaker 2: of the running backs Juju in the slot, like, somebody
Speaker 2: is facing a linebacker in coverage and invanted Patriots. Now,
Speaker 2: if they put dime defense out there, then now you
Speaker 2: have two tight ends. And let's just say for argument's sake,
Speaker 2: right now it's Remandre. Well, now you can go under
Speaker 2: center and you can run the football down their throats. Right,
Speaker 2: you got six dbs on the field. We have two
Speaker 2: tight ends. We got this workhorse back in Remondre's two
Speaker 2: hundred and twenty pounds. Here it comes at you, stop it.
Speaker 2: So I think that in order for that to happen, though,
Speaker 2: they have to be really productive passing the football out
Speaker 2: of twelve personnel like that has to be a carrying
Speaker 2: trait for the offense, right, they have to be able
Speaker 2: to say we can threaten out of this grouping in
Speaker 2: the passing game, and if they can do that, then
Speaker 2: they might be able to force teams either they're just
Speaker 2: gonna be better right and they're going to move the
Speaker 2: ball through the air, or they might be able to
Speaker 2: force teams to play lighter defense, which isn't going to
Speaker 2: allow him to run the football. So I think that
Speaker 2: that's why twelve personnel and this is something that Bill
Speaker 2: O'Brien is fantastic at. He's really good at using indicators
Speaker 2: and using formations to threaten defense. He loves empty, right,
Speaker 2: We've talked about that a ton.
Speaker 1: Well, that's why Tome Montgomery is so interesting to just
Speaker 1: add onto it, because they.
Speaker 2: Can play running back and he can play wide receiver,
Speaker 2: so they theoretically, and I think Remadre could do it
Speaker 2: too because he's so talented, so I think he could
Speaker 2: do it too. Theoretically, they can be an under center
Speaker 2: twelve personnel offense and an empty twelve personnel offense at
Speaker 2: the same time. Right, and then you get into some
Speaker 2: of the things that they used to do with vintage O'Brien,
Speaker 2: like twenty eleven Patriots pace empty, no huddle, right, like yeah,
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden you get let's say
Speaker 2: they get Week one against Philly, and they really like
Speaker 2: running the football against Philly's dime package, like they think
Speaker 2: that's a true advantage for them. If you can get
Speaker 2: their dime package on the field against your twelve personnel, well,
Speaker 2: now you go no huddle, and now they can't substitute,
Speaker 2: and now you get them stuck in these personnel groupings.
Speaker 2: This is what the Patriots used to do when they
Speaker 2: were humming, like when they were at their best. The
Speaker 2: other thing that they would really do a lot of
Speaker 2: is use it to their advantage for coverage indicators. If
Speaker 2: you put Remandra Stevenson out on the boundary and he's
Speaker 2: technically your outside receiver, if he gets followed by a
Speaker 2: linebacker outside, what is it? It's man coverage. Linebacker is
Speaker 2: not playing the deep third in zone coverage, right, it's man.
Speaker 2: If he gets followed by a corner or a corner
Speaker 2: just bumps over and takes him, then it all of
Speaker 2: a sudden. You can see that at zone coverage. So
Speaker 2: it's two things. It's one it's formations, right, it gives
Speaker 2: you advantages in terms of matchups within the formation, but
Speaker 2: it's also pre snap coverage indicators of is it man
Speaker 2: or zone based off of how they match the tight ends,
Speaker 2: how they match the backs and things like that. How
Speaker 2: many times did we used to see with Brady they
Speaker 2: would get a look pre snap they'd go five wide
Speaker 2: empty and like sometimes James Devlin would like be all
Speaker 2: the way out here, and they would see that the
Speaker 2: linebacker was out there with him, and then they would
Speaker 2: know it was man coverage. So then they would throw
Speaker 2: a seam to like Juliet Edelman against a linebacker because
Speaker 2: this corner is stuck on James Devlin, right, or something
Speaker 2: like that. Or how many times would we see them
Speaker 2: get this five wide look? They look at it, they say,
Speaker 2: the defense is in a pretty good shell against what
Speaker 2: they're throwing, and all of a sudden, Brady calls everybody
Speaker 2: back in and now we're under center against dime defense
Speaker 2: and we're running the football because that's the look that
Speaker 2: the defense gives them. Those are the types of things
Speaker 2: that I want to see the Patriots be able to
Speaker 2: get back to. But all of it to me, and
Speaker 2: this is why it's my one big thing with the
Speaker 2: tight ends, all of it to be comes back to
Speaker 2: You can only do that if you're productive out of
Speaker 2: twelve personnel, right, and the problem was that the reason
Speaker 2: why they use twelve personnel so few and far between,
Speaker 2: relatively speaking with Johnny Smith and Hunter Henry is because
Speaker 2: they weren't a good offense with the two of them
Speaker 2: on the field together. They were a better offense with
Speaker 2: just using one at a time. If they're gonna be
Speaker 2: if they're gonna max out their personnel, then it's got
Speaker 2: to be both of them together. And I think that
Speaker 2: that's gonna be a huge, huge, sort of tipping point
Speaker 2: for the whole offense. And that's why it's my one
Speaker 2: big thing for tight ends. I think like getting into
Speaker 2: like Johnny Lumpkin and Scottie Washington is a little bit.
Speaker 2: You know, that's training camp fodder for sure, but in
Speaker 2: terms of the big picture, it's got to be they've
Speaker 2: got to be a twelve personnel base. They have to
Speaker 2: be able to rely on that, and that's how they
Speaker 2: can really mess with defenses and have an answer.
Speaker 1: So you're gonna hate my one big thing for wide receivers.
Speaker 2: Okay, well we'll get to it in a second. Let's
Speaker 2: take some of the calls they've been waiting. All right,
Speaker 2: Sean and Vancouver kick us off. What's up?
Speaker 4: Sean, Hey, excuse the noise. I'm on a I guess
Speaker 4: a foot passenger ferry. We call the SeaBus here, so
Speaker 4: you hear that rumpling in the background. Just got a
Speaker 4: couple of things, Evan, I want to get to what
Speaker 4: you were asking before in regards to truth here for
Speaker 4: Robert Kraft about the payments, and just remind blisters we're
Speaker 4: talking about his hall of fame. I mean, if you're
Speaker 4: thinking about the Patriots history of dynasty, really a lot
Speaker 4: of people argue that it's Belichick versus Brady, but really
Speaker 4: the real answer is all three was Robert Kraft, Belichick,
Speaker 4: and Brady. They all contributed, and they all helped each
Speaker 4: other and built that gynasty for twenty years. And that's
Speaker 4: only one of the reasons that he belonged in the
Speaker 4: Hall of Fame. But when you when you ask him,
Speaker 4: and here's my educated guest, about payments, about salary, about
Speaker 4: any of that, you know, Robert Kraft the first decisions
Speaker 4: like that, when he's not the expert, he's going to
Speaker 4: bring in people that are experts. So I don't think
Speaker 4: he had any kind of limit on that. I don't
Speaker 4: think he would put his decisions. I don't think Belichick
Speaker 4: even went to him with that kind of stuff. The
Speaker 4: people in the building that are going to make the
Speaker 4: salar decisions in terms of who they're going to put
Speaker 4: on the team, who they're going to keep, and how
Speaker 4: it's going to work around that, and that's that's how
Speaker 4: they built the team. The other thing I wanted to
Speaker 4: point out, as you were talking to obviously about Stanley Morgan, Yeah,
Speaker 4: he definitely deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 4: And the reason he's not won, well, they never wanted
Speaker 4: to Super Bowl. But also they were a running team
Speaker 4: in a running era. The Patriots never had a really
Speaker 4: strong passing game until I'd say till Bledsoget got there
Speaker 4: in the early nineties. I don't remember any year besides
Speaker 4: eighty six that he had more than like eighty targets,
Speaker 4: Like they weren't counting targets, but the guy didn't drop
Speaker 4: the ball like he just he had like nineteen average
Speaker 4: one over nineteen now yards per catch is incredible. He
Speaker 4: definitely was one of the best receivers in the history
Speaker 4: of the nfls And my second thing that I wanted
Speaker 4: to bring up we were talking earlier about quarterbacks. Good
Speaker 4: quarterback always being clutched. Well, here's one example I think
Speaker 4: that the or not bad is Aaron Rodgers, one of
Speaker 4: the top quarterbacks. I wouldn't consider him clutch And I'll
Speaker 4: leave you guys for comment on that.
Speaker 2: Thanks Sean. Yeah, that's that's true. Aaron Rodgers is probably
Speaker 2: one of the outliers here. Yeah, in terms of that.
Speaker 2: And I look, I brought up the cash spending thing
Speaker 2: because it's a hot topic right now, and I genuinely
Speaker 2: think that I would like to I said, if I
Speaker 2: had some truth serum to give Robert Kraft, I would
Speaker 2: ask him, like, what's the truth behind all that? Right?
Speaker 2: If I could. What a bottom line is is that
Speaker 2: I just think that there's a really nuanced answer to
Speaker 2: how they handle their salary cap and how they handle
Speaker 2: their payroll quite frankly, in terms of the NFL roster,
Speaker 2: in terms of the roster the football team, excuse me,
Speaker 2: And I just want to know, like I just want
Speaker 2: to know what's like the forty chests that they're playing
Speaker 2: with the with the payroll, because I know it's not
Speaker 2: as simple as like you know, mister Craft sets a
Speaker 2: budget and Bill has to stick to it, and that's
Speaker 2: that it's it's much more nuanced than that. And I
Speaker 2: think that they're you know, the talk radio fodder is
Speaker 2: about the real cash spending and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: And I would love to hear like an economics one
Speaker 2: on one course on on how they they handle their
Speaker 2: payroll because they are not pumping any tires here. They
Speaker 2: are one of the best, if not the best, salary
Speaker 2: cap management teams in the NFL for twenty plus years. Yes,
Speaker 2: so they whether it's their nerds are great and their
Speaker 2: accountants are great, or whatever the case may be, they
Speaker 2: do a really good job. And I'm one hundred percent
Speaker 2: with you on rober Kraft getting into the Hall of Fame,
Speaker 2: hundred percent with you on the steamer Stanley Morgan getting
Speaker 2: into the Hall of Fame mentioned they didn't throw a lot.
Speaker 2: That's probably why. Stanley Morgan, what was the leader in
Speaker 2: yards per catch until like.
Speaker 1: The He's the all time leader and yards per catch
Speaker 1: among receivers with at least five hundred catches nineteen point
Speaker 1: two yards per catch.
Speaker 2: That's absurd, that's wild, especially given the era that he played.
Speaker 2: In the fact that that number or how long ago
Speaker 2: he played, I should say, the fact that number still
Speaker 2: holds up is pretty incredible. Yeah, that's still the case.
Speaker 2: All right, Patty, what's up? Patty? Still I'm a jake,
Speaker 2: So real.
Speaker 5: Quick point before I get into my Patriots point, I
Speaker 5: call Aaron Rodgers the greatest front running quarterback in history
Speaker 5: because when he's got to lead, he's almost insurmountable. But
Speaker 5: especially in big games, that guy goes down by one
Speaker 5: score and he's he's coasts, he's done. He doesn't know
Speaker 5: how to play position. My Patriots point regarding mac Evan
Speaker 5: not just the twelve person of all, I just think offensively,
Speaker 5: they have to be better everywhere, you know, And like
Speaker 5: I said, uh a few weeks ago, I think that's
Speaker 5: going to be the breakout player because I do think
Speaker 5: he is a smart quarterback. And I mean we thought
Speaker 5: the last great era with Brady and and Nanning, and
Speaker 5: I mean they did they had great arms. They didn't
Speaker 5: have the greatest arms of all time are the best
Speaker 5: arm talent, but they just they were just so smart.
Speaker 5: They knew how to play the game. They knew how
Speaker 5: to been to the late defense. And I think that
Speaker 5: with O'Brien back here on board, I think they're they're
Speaker 5: going to get him the freedom. Hopefully they get the
Speaker 5: freedom to use his great statt which is his brain
Speaker 5: at the line of scrimmage to make plays, you know,
Speaker 5: to get the defense, as you guys like to say,
Speaker 5: you know, put them in stress or however you articulated.
Speaker 5: So that's where I'm coming from. That's what I want
Speaker 5: to see and let's go, baby. I can't wait for
Speaker 5: freaking training Gip.
Speaker 2: I'm with you, Patty, I've been. I told Alex last
Speaker 2: week that I already had the itch. I don't know
Speaker 2: about everybody else. Morrell did, are you Coaston Stiller? Do
Speaker 2: you do you want football?
Speaker 1: One week left?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well yeah, we're all ready to go here. Trust me.
Speaker 2: I can't wait. But I think Mac, you know, I
Speaker 2: that thing was going around Twitter Alex about like the
Speaker 2: top five players on the Patriots faster. I didn't put
Speaker 2: Mac in my group of guys that were in the conversation,
Speaker 2: and you know, a lot I did get some pushback about that.
Speaker 2: And although I don't think that he's in that conversation currently,
Speaker 2: he's probably the one player that I would say that
Speaker 2: that has the best potential to be next year and
Speaker 2: probably needs to be right, and that certainly needs to
Speaker 2: be next year. But I I like what I've seen
Speaker 2: from Max so far in the in the in the spring,
Speaker 2: excuse me, it's obviously spring. It's it's early. But I
Speaker 2: like more importantly, I I like the way he's carried himself,
Speaker 2: in the way that he's he's talked. I think that
Speaker 2: there's a lot to be said for the fact and
Speaker 2: look he's thrown I know your station is a little
Speaker 2: bit more subjective to these types of things than me.
Speaker 2: He's thrown some verbal jabs, potentially in press conferences, even
Speaker 2: in the spring, you know, talking about it being normal
Speaker 2: and like stuff like that compared to last year. But
Speaker 2: for the most part, he has been quiet. He's he's
Speaker 2: kept his door, his mouth kind of shut. He's worked hard,
Speaker 2: he's put his head down, and he's gotten ready for
Speaker 2: the season. He hasn't done press. He hasn't like given
Speaker 2: an exclusive to somebody about how awful the Matt Patricia
Speaker 2: hero was or you know something like that, right, Like,
Speaker 2: he hasn't done any of those types of things. And
Speaker 2: I think he has got a little bit of a
Speaker 2: chip on his shoulder. I'm just that's all I'm gonna
Speaker 2: say about it. But I think he's got it. I
Speaker 2: think he's got a chip. I think he hears it
Speaker 2: and he's not Yeah, definitely, he's not hearing it like
Speaker 2: in like a Braddy of like get off my lawn
Speaker 2: type of way. I think he's hearing it and like
Speaker 2: using it. You know, he's trying to at least.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, he's internalizing it. And that's the right
Speaker 1: thing to do, is as long as it doesn't cross
Speaker 1: the line. I think that's what happened last year. I
Speaker 1: think early on it was good and then late in
Speaker 1: the season it just became too much and he crossed
Speaker 1: the line. So it's it's it's a bouncing act. Really,
Speaker 1: that's what it is.
Speaker 3: Is.
Speaker 2: Yep. All right, let's get the Todd in North Carolina. Todd.
Speaker 2: First of all, thank you for lunch, Todd. That was funny.
Speaker 3: No problem. My question, my concern has been over the
Speaker 3: last little while, and you guys have been touching on it,
Speaker 3: but nobody's actually brought it up. What is the effect,
Speaker 3: Like you guys are the stat nerds, you'll get this.
Speaker 3: What is the effect on the defense's level of play
Speaker 3: based on the time of offensive possess because we just don't
Speaker 3: keep the ball like we go three and out?
Speaker 5: Like, are we the best.
Speaker 3: Team at going three and out? Like last year? Did
Speaker 3: we have the most three and outs?
Speaker 5: But of any other team, it seems that our defense.
Speaker 3: Gets beat up by the end of the year. And
Speaker 3: this is why older players like Jude and stuff just
Speaker 3: don't have anything less in the tank. So how are
Speaker 3: we going to deal with that this year? Like a yeah,
Speaker 3: is this just going to be a total change with
Speaker 3: the new the new coach and system and the linemen
Speaker 3: and stuff. Because if we don't, if we keep going
Speaker 3: three and out, I don't care who we have back there?
Speaker 1: Todd?
Speaker 3: Is it?
Speaker 2: Todd? Is it Todd?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Todd?
Speaker 1: That is an awesome call, Todd, Thank you. I have
Speaker 1: been for lunch. The man Evan knows. I'm surprised you
Speaker 1: roll your eyes as soon as he brought that up
Speaker 1: because you knew where I was going. How much have
Speaker 1: I been banging the table on this going back to
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty one season, Yeah, you cannot. And it
Speaker 1: was like the Cowboys game the Bucks get Oh the
Speaker 1: defense blew it late? Yeah, well they were getting out
Speaker 1: snapped by thirty plays. Yeah, it's absolutely a factor in
Speaker 1: its got it?
Speaker 2: We hit the button there you go.
Speaker 1: So it's it's something that's gone. I thought it was
Speaker 1: just me. I thought I was yelling into the fog
Speaker 1: shoutouts of ton. No, it's something that nobody.
Speaker 2: Wants to talk about at nuanced talls.
Speaker 1: I know they don't because it's because how dare the
Speaker 1: defense be good? And because how dare the defense be good?
Speaker 1: But and that's not to say the defense has been perfect.
Speaker 1: They've had their issues. But this is it all goes
Speaker 1: back to Super Bowl fifty one. This is the story
Speaker 1: of what happened in Super Bowl fifty one. The Falcons
Speaker 1: scored on quick drives, they scored on a pick six.
Speaker 1: Their defense was on the field a ton through the
Speaker 1: first three quarters of that game, even though they had
Speaker 1: the big lead, and then late they were gassed yea,
Speaker 1: And that, among other things, is what opened the door
Speaker 1: for the Patriots.
Speaker 2: And seventeen os going. It's the same thing.
Speaker 1: The same thing happened in I forget which one it was,
Speaker 1: but the Alabama Clemson National Championship that Hunter Renfro caught the.
Speaker 2: Pass at the end of you're talking like Spanish.
Speaker 1: Alabama had Alabama's defense had been on the field thirty
Speaker 1: five more snaps. Okay, but it's the same thing. It
Speaker 1: happened in the Bucks game a couple years ago, it
Speaker 1: happened in the Cowboys game. I think you saw it
Speaker 1: a little bit in that Vikings game this year, Like.
Speaker 2: That Cowboys game was a big one that I remember that.
Speaker 1: There's been so many games the last few years, and
Speaker 1: this is not like a Matt Patrician thing knocked over
Speaker 1: water bottle. This is not a Mattatrician thing. This goes back.
Speaker 1: There's been so many games that are close. And we
Speaker 1: get to the second half. I can like see myself
Speaker 1: doing this up in the press box, and I go
Speaker 1: into the stats page and I look at the play count.
Speaker 1: How many teams does each play run? And even though
Speaker 1: it's a close game, maybe the Patriot are head a
Speaker 1: little bit, the other team offensively has run like thirty
Speaker 1: more plays than the Patriots because Patriots scored on a
Speaker 1: pick six or a big player or something like that.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, here we go. The defense is gonna
Speaker 1: get gased. That is such a great point. They need
Speaker 1: more sustained drives. And you know where this is massive,
Speaker 1: Evan is against Buffalo.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because that's been a huge issue against Buffalo Buffalo.
Speaker 1: A big part of the reason Buffalo is as successful
Speaker 1: as they are is they are boom and bust offense
Speaker 1: that creates margin forrer by how quickly they can score.
Speaker 1: They're going to have bad drives, but because they can
Speaker 1: score so quickly, they know if they get twelve thirteen
Speaker 1: drives a game, enough of them will be good that
Speaker 1: they'll be successful. How do you beat a team like that?
Speaker 1: Ball control, in controlling the clock, in limiting them to
Speaker 1: seven or eight drives, and that's then they have to
Speaker 1: be perfect. It shrinks their margin for error. I think
Speaker 1: it was the Bucks game. I forget which game it was.
Speaker 1: It might have been the Bills game. One of the
Speaker 1: games of twenty twenty one. No, I remember this. We
Speaker 1: had this conversation that my whole key to the game
Speaker 1: was you can't allow them a ninth drive if they
Speaker 1: like they're average per year, whatever we got it for
Speaker 1: the year.
Speaker 2: One makes us a good team because these types of
Speaker 2: like like this just I don't have an eye for it. Well,
Speaker 2: first I'm sewing the weeds on the x's and o's
Speaker 2: in the film and all that, and then Alex is like, well,
Speaker 2: what about the ninth drive?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, well, it's funny because when we first
Speaker 1: started working together, you'd roll your eyes at this because
Speaker 1: you thought it was just nonsense, and then you see
Speaker 1: it play out. I think I can't remember what game
Speaker 1: it was, but there was a game.
Speaker 2: I remember distinctly. The game that I remember off the
Speaker 2: top of my head or the defense was just absolutely
Speaker 2: gassed by the end was the Dallas game. And I
Speaker 2: remember because they mac threw the pick six to Trayvon
Speaker 2: Diggs and then through the eighty r touchdown to Kendrick
Speaker 2: Boren on like back to back plays. So the Patriots
Speaker 2: defense was just out there the whole entire game, it
Speaker 2: felt like. And then once they got into overtime and
Speaker 2: the Patriots didn't score on the first possession of overtime
Speaker 2: in the Dallas game, that you knew the Cowboys. The
Speaker 2: defense just had nothing left, like the Cowboys just walked
Speaker 2: down the field.
Speaker 1: So here's what it was. I found it. So it
Speaker 1: was the Tampa game that year, through the first couple
Speaker 1: of games whatever that was Week five, right week four,
Speaker 1: Week five through the first however, many games had been
Speaker 1: something like eighty close to ninety percent of their points
Speaker 1: came within their first nine drives. They didn't score late
Speaker 1: in games that I remembri said all week. You can't
Speaker 1: allow them a tenth drive. You got to control the ball.
Speaker 1: Nine drives are fewer. They scored the game winning field
Speaker 1: goal on their tenth drive.
Speaker 2: There you go. And I think the biggest thing.
Speaker 1: Which was like a march of the drive that drained
Speaker 1: the clock because the Patriots defense just they were done.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were done for me. Look like you just
Speaker 2: laid it out better than I can. So I'm not
Speaker 2: gonna add too much to it.
Speaker 1: A fifteen play sixty eight yard drive.
Speaker 2: The I feel like I've always I feel like I'm
Speaker 2: on my soap box with the Patriots defense. Defending the
Speaker 2: Patriots defense a lot because and I'm not saying this
Speaker 2: like to be snarkyars I.
Speaker 1: Am too, and I'm not ashamed of it.
Speaker 2: To be pretentious or whatever. I watch a lot of
Speaker 2: of football during the season. I watch a lot of
Speaker 2: other defenses. I watch a lot of other defenses film,
Speaker 2: you know, to get ready for the next game, to
Speaker 2: preview the next game, and I'll i'll and in defenses
Speaker 2: against the Patriots offense and so on and so forth.
Speaker 2: And the Patriots defense to me is hands down, consistently
Speaker 2: over the last couple of years, been one of the
Speaker 2: best defenses to watch on film in the NFL. And
Speaker 2: they get this paper tiger label from a lot of
Speaker 2: people because they don't go toe to toe with Josh
Speaker 2: Allen and they don't shut out the Bills, or they
Speaker 2: don't you know, Lamar Jackson has a huge game on them,
Speaker 2: or justin Fields in that Monday night game, which granted
Speaker 2: was a bad game, and yeah, that was just not
Speaker 2: letting them off the hook for it. But my point,
Speaker 2: my general point is is that I would like to
Speaker 2: see the Patriots defense and how they would look if
Speaker 2: the offense is pulling the rope in the same direction,
Speaker 2: if the offense is playing complimentary football, if the offense
Speaker 2: is sustaining drives at the offense is you know, breaking
Speaker 2: even on play counts in time of possession, if the
Speaker 2: offense is putting up thirty points in a game. Yeah,
Speaker 2: if you're telling me that the offense is holding its
Speaker 2: end of the bargain, how does the Patriots defense look then,
Speaker 2: Because when the Patriots defense gets into a game, their
Speaker 2: margin over the last couple of years, and certainly last
Speaker 2: year was basically like, if you hold it, don't hold
Speaker 2: this offense to twenty points or under, we're losing.
Speaker 1: Well, And that's not fair. Point, it's not fair. As
Speaker 1: much as that stat makes me roll my eyes. Everybody say, oh,
Speaker 1: the Patriots defense, they can't beat these good quarterbacks, but
Speaker 1: a lot of you're in the game late. You can
Speaker 1: only ask the unit to do so much and if
Speaker 1: it I'm not gonna fault them. I'm not gonna fault
Speaker 1: the defense for giving up a touchdown on the last
Speaker 1: drive of a game that they lose seventeen to fourteen.
Speaker 1: We had this conversation a couple of years ago Evan
Speaker 1: on a previous show that what an elite defense. You're
Speaker 1: never gonna see the two thousand Baltimore Ravens again. You're
Speaker 1: never gonna see the two thousand and two Tampa Buccaneers again.
Speaker 1: You're never gonna see two thousand four Patriots again. The
Speaker 1: definition of an elite defense in the modern age is
Speaker 1: very different. It's basically, can you give your offense enough
Speaker 1: of a chance to go punch for punch at the
Speaker 1: end every single week? Because I know that sounds like
Speaker 1: not a lot, Oh, can you just keep them in
Speaker 1: the game? There are a lot of defenses that more
Speaker 1: often than not can't even keep their team in the game,
Speaker 1: no matter how good the offense. And that's what this
Speaker 1: defense does. They keep the offense in the game. More
Speaker 1: often than not, they just can't finish it. I do
Speaker 1: want to say so. First off, I have here Super
Speaker 1: Bowl fifty one. The Patriots ran. I have to do.
Speaker 2: They always comes back to twenty eight to three. It
Speaker 2: always comes back.
Speaker 1: The Patriots ran eighty eight offensive plays to the Falcons
Speaker 1: forty three.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: You think that's the extreme to.
Speaker 2: Think that that happened in a game where the Falcons
Speaker 2: once led twenty eight to three, but that had that
Speaker 2: kind of played discrepancy.
Speaker 1: Sorry, forty one forty one, Yeah, eighty eight to forty
Speaker 1: one was the place. From that one on a napkin.
Speaker 1: I was about to but then you threw back to
Speaker 1: me too quickly the other one. And and by the way,
Speaker 1: shout out to whoever put in the chat, shout out
Speaker 1: to what shout out who ever put in the chat correctly?
Speaker 1: That how does he not get that? I don't get
Speaker 1: that at all. That Alabama would have won the twenty
Speaker 1: seventeen National championship had both Scarborough not broken his leg.
Speaker 1: Alabama's offense in that game ran sixty six plays.
Speaker 2: We're not doing Alabama.
Speaker 1: Clemson ran ninety nine plays ninety a ball game. But no,
Speaker 1: But this is the point, this is the point. You
Speaker 1: can't ask your defense for much on the ninety ninth
Speaker 1: play of the game. At that point, you failed them. Yes,
Speaker 1: if they're on the field for ninety nine places.
Speaker 2: What it comes down to me is, let's just see
Speaker 2: the Patriots defense through a large sample size where the
Speaker 2: offense is also doing its part and it's not. That's
Speaker 2: the biggest thing. If you go into a game defensively
Speaker 2: and your margin of error is so razor within that
Speaker 2: essentially you have to hold that team to like twenty
Speaker 2: one points, twenty points or you know, you're automatically done right,
Speaker 2: Like just imagine playing defense like it's not a defense issue.
Speaker 1: Ye at that point?
Speaker 2: All right, let's take this last call and then we'll
Speaker 2: get back to the camp stuff. Matthews in New Mexico.
Speaker 2: It's up, Matthew.
Speaker 6: Hey, how's it going, guys?
Speaker 7: Thank Evan.
Speaker 6: I called it on PU about the defense, but that
Speaker 6: is a good part about the offense. That and I'm
Speaker 6: thinking about now, but I'm calling this is kind of
Speaker 6: how I make sure to like Bill with like the offense.
Speaker 6: It could be like his neighbor, you know, like Bill,
Speaker 6: like you know, there's a lot of playmakers in the league,
Speaker 6: Like are you guys going to hire any playmakers? And
Speaker 6: Bill probably like what do you mean I signed?
Speaker 3: Juju?
Speaker 6: And you know, am I wrong?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I guess are you saying that Bill is just
Speaker 2: like things that that's good enough? Is that where you're
Speaker 2: getting at?
Speaker 6: Yeah, and just like it goes to just what you
Speaker 6: used to have, Like he's operating like we have time,
Speaker 6: you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it does like he could be like.
Speaker 6: You mean, what do you mean I got my big
Speaker 6: guys juju?
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, it's it's it's how I feel about it too. Matthew,
Speaker 2: thanks for the calls on both shows. I look that
Speaker 2: that's how that's my biggest thing. We had a lot
Speaker 2: of calls and a lot of talk on on PU
Speaker 2: today Alex about Bill and his job security and all
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff, and uh, it's a Willhelm and
Speaker 2: film came after me a little bit. Morrell that that
Speaker 2: was interesting is we got into a little bit, but uh,
Speaker 2: the uh the biggest thing was to me, is is
Speaker 2: I have no issues with Bill to coach. I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't have very many issues outside of the big
Speaker 2: caveat you know, the big elephant to the room of
Speaker 2: matt Patricia last year, like in terms of like what
Speaker 2: he does on a week to week, day to day
Speaker 2: basis with the football team, the game planning, the x's
Speaker 2: and o's, the playbook right, Like, I don't have any
Speaker 2: issues with any of that stuff. I'll still take Bill
Speaker 2: Belichick over the field when it comes to his ability
Speaker 2: to coach and manage the football team in season. My
Speaker 2: biggest gripe with Bill is roster construction and roster building.
Speaker 2: And I think Matthew just made the point for me.
Speaker 2: It comes down to how do you view the quarterback
Speaker 2: position and if you're operating under the assumption that the
Speaker 2: quarterback is gonna make the whole thing go, I don't
Speaker 2: know if you have that guy yet that makes you
Speaker 2: feel comfortable with that. And when they had Brady, like
Speaker 2: if you put Brady not forty six year old Brady
Speaker 2: or however old he is now, but just Brady in
Speaker 2: an offense with Juju and Kasiki and Henry and Parker
Speaker 2: and Born and Thornton, Like, I think this offense would
Speaker 2: be a top five offense yeah, with Tom Brady, But
Speaker 2: they don't have Tom Brady. So that means that instead
Speaker 2: of a top I mean.
Speaker 1: To be fair with offense, isn't a top five offense
Speaker 1: with Tom Brady?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean the nineteen offense was I I wasn't
Speaker 2: really tom Brady though, yeah, you know what I mean? Though, yeah, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: do I do mean I think that they have better
Speaker 2: weapons than they did in nineteen.
Speaker 1: Now, oh yeah, this is the best. Uh, this is
Speaker 1: the best assortment of offensive talent they've had since I
Speaker 1: would even say seventeen. Yeah, oh, I guess for like
Speaker 1: one week in nineteen they were loaded right when they
Speaker 1: had Antonio Brown and Josh Gordon then.
Speaker 2: But you know.
Speaker 1: This, this should be all right. So maybe seventeen's a
Speaker 1: little far back, but definitely since all of that, since
Speaker 1: the Antonio Brown drama and everything, this is the best
Speaker 1: group of skill position players.
Speaker 2: But the problem is is that it's still not built
Speaker 2: up to the point where it's quarterback proof. The quarterback
Speaker 2: is still gonna have to play well correct. They still
Speaker 2: need a good quarterback, and maybe my dream scenario of
Speaker 2: being like, I would love to be quarterback proof. Obviously
Speaker 2: I would love to have Tom Brady again, or Patrick
Speaker 2: Mahomes or insert you know franchise quarterback here. But in
Speaker 2: this rebuilding process and the stage that they're in right now,
Speaker 2: my ideal is to be quarterback proof. And we've talked
Speaker 2: about this concept a lot, to be able to be
Speaker 2: able to just have everything so buttoned up around the
Speaker 2: quarterback that if you just get adequate quarterback play, then
Speaker 2: you're gonna be fine. And if you don't have one
Speaker 2: of those franchise guys, that's what you need to strive for.
Speaker 2: That's what you need to go for. And to me,
Speaker 2: the Patriots are not operate. The Patriots are operating like
Speaker 2: Mac Jones is a franchise quarterback is like this elite
Speaker 2: franchise guy where they can be okay with middling weapons,
Speaker 2: but they don't have that guy at the quarterback position.
Speaker 2: And until that, philosophically, they basically have like three doors
Speaker 2: that they could walk through. Door number one is that
Speaker 2: Mac Jones takes that next step and becomes elite yep.
Speaker 2: Door number two is that they move on from Mac.
Speaker 2: Or door number three is that Bill changes his philosophy,
Speaker 2: and Bill goes from Juju Smith Schuster being the highest
Speaker 2: paid receiver on the Patriots roster to trading and paying
Speaker 2: Jerry Judy right like or whatever the case may be.
Speaker 2: And if Bill is not going to walk through door
Speaker 2: number three with mac Jones as the quarterback here, then
Speaker 2: I will continue to have gribes with him, but I
Speaker 2: don't have any grips with them in terms of like, Okay,
Speaker 2: it's Tuesday and we're game planning for the Philadelphia Eagles.
Speaker 2: I'm still taking Bill. Yeah, And I think that that's
Speaker 2: like sort of the difference. And for some people, I
Speaker 2: get that that's like a confusing it's the same person,
Speaker 2: even though it's two different jobs GM and coach. It's
Speaker 2: the same person here. So it's all falls on Bill.
Speaker 2: So if you're out on him as a GM, then
Speaker 2: you're also out in him as a coach. Like that's
Speaker 2: sort of how it works for a lot of people.
Speaker 2: But for me, I separate the two things. I don't
Speaker 2: know if he'll change, and I don't know if mac
Speaker 2: Jones is going to be elite so and I don't
Speaker 2: know if they're gonna move on. And that's how you
Speaker 2: just get stuck at eight and nine, right, Like, that's
Speaker 2: just how well. I mean, they're gonna have to They're
Speaker 2: not gonna extend mac Jones. He's not good, right, But
Speaker 2: when I say move on, I guess is more like
Speaker 2: for his fourth and fifth year.
Speaker 1: All right, so yeah, short term move on, yeah you.
Speaker 2: Know, or short term stick with him, I guess. All right,
Speaker 2: let's get back to the training camp stuff. We were
Speaker 2: ended at tight ends. Do you have a thought on
Speaker 2: the tight ends or did you.
Speaker 1: Know we we pretty much covered it.
Speaker 2: Wide receivers speak of the devil right easily. The I
Speaker 2: think if we added up the amount of airtime we
Speaker 2: spike about one position on Patriots dot Com radio, morell
Speaker 2: wide receivers would be in a landslide. It's the talked
Speaker 2: about position group on the team by a ton, an
Speaker 2: absolute ton. My big thing at wide receiver is still Taekwon.
Speaker 2: It's still Taekwon. I can't let it go. They have
Speaker 2: as much as they have to see what they have
Speaker 2: in mac Jones. I also think that they need to
Speaker 2: give Taekwon opportunities. And I know you're right about you
Speaker 2: can't do it at expense at the quarterback, right if
Speaker 2: he's a better player. You gotta play the better player.
Speaker 2: But I look at the way that Bill O'Brien can
Speaker 2: use Taekwon and use his speed out on the field,
Speaker 2: and you know, separate from signing DeAndre Hopkins, like that's
Speaker 2: the one caveat of Like if they sign him, then
Speaker 2: obviously I don't really care about Taekwon as much. But
Speaker 2: to me, my one big thing is that you have
Speaker 2: to you have to make Taekwon work at some point.
Speaker 2: You got to make one of these receivers work that
Speaker 2: you've drafted. You gotta they gotta figure it out. You
Speaker 2: gotta develop them. It's not just about how they use them.
Speaker 2: It's not just about scheme and Bill O'Brien like, can
Speaker 2: we also develop a receiver, like can we get making
Speaker 2: a receiver better? I think they did that with Jacoby
Speaker 2: even though it wasn't drafted. Yeah, I think they did
Speaker 2: that with Jacoby, So they're capable of doing it. But
Speaker 2: I think with Jacoby the difference was Jacoby had the
Speaker 2: drive and he had the he put in a ton
Speaker 2: of work. He put in a ton of work, thank you.
Speaker 2: That's the best way to put it. He put in
Speaker 2: a ton of work.
Speaker 1: Not that Taekwon isn't, but like he had Jacoby grinded.
Speaker 2: That was Jacoby had like a little Edelman in him. Yeah,
Speaker 2: in that respect, which.
Speaker 1: Whenever he followed Julian Edelman around, Yeah, which.
Speaker 2: Might have on his head, which might maybe we'll talk
Speaker 2: about this at the end, Bruce Cassidy and Milton with
Speaker 2: gross anyways, Yeah, that that that's my big thing at receiver.
Speaker 2: I also will say I'll guess you go first, because
Speaker 2: I don't want to steal yours if it's the same thing.
Speaker 1: Well, so I'm working on two things for ninety at
Speaker 1: five they'll be up, you know, the week four training camp.
Speaker 1: One is the five biggest position battles of camp and
Speaker 1: the other is the five biggest stories, So I'm trying
Speaker 1: not to overlap. I have Taekwon versus Born as like
Speaker 1: the biggest position battle for this team. Who is going
Speaker 1: to win that zero? So that's obviously massive, But I
Speaker 1: think in a bigger picture health health, they need to
Speaker 1: be healthy a wide receiver. We saw in the spring
Speaker 1: how quickly it drops. It all evaporates once you lose
Speaker 1: one or two guys. And we haven't seen Juju Smith
Speaker 1: Schuster on the field yet. We don't know exactly kind
Speaker 1: of injury Taekwon's dealing with. DeVante Parker is a guy
Speaker 1: who is healthy right now, but as a history of
Speaker 1: getting banged up, they gotta stay healthy. They've got to
Speaker 1: stay healthy through camp and get into the season healthy
Speaker 1: and then maybe, you know, once you build a little
Speaker 1: bit of rhythm offensively, it's easier if you lose a
Speaker 1: player here or there. But this group's got to stay
Speaker 1: healthy and they didn't last year. Taekwan got hurt, and
Speaker 1: I think it was the second preseason game. Was it
Speaker 1: the first one he had that collarbone injury? They have
Speaker 1: to stay healthy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was where I was going to with Juju.
Speaker 2: You know, dude keeps springing this up and I keep
Speaker 2: forgetting because I can in my head, I think of
Speaker 2: Juju as like your march for like eighty catches for
Speaker 2: nine hundred yards, right like the season he had last
Speaker 2: year for Kansas City, just because I feel like he's
Speaker 2: a known commodity. Like you know, I'm not saying that.
Speaker 2: I don't think that his his ceiling is very high,
Speaker 2: and I think his floor is very high, right, Like,
Speaker 2: I think he's gonna be an eighty catch, nine hundred
Speaker 2: yard guy if he's out there, but I keep forgetting
Speaker 2: that he wasn't out there, right, And that's that's a
Speaker 2: big deal. That's a big big.
Speaker 1: And that's more where I'm at with with Taekwon than
Speaker 1: anything else, is just can he be out because I
Speaker 1: don't I don't want to say the worst thing that
Speaker 1: could happen, But what if he is really good? Yeah,
Speaker 1: because we've seen this happen with guys before Malcolm Mitchell.
Speaker 1: What if he is really good and then it gets
Speaker 1: weak two and then he gets hurt and then they
Speaker 1: built the whole offense right.
Speaker 2: Well, I also kind of feel like that, not that
Speaker 2: they built the whole offense around him, but he was
Speaker 2: decent in camp last year before the collarbone injury. I
Speaker 2: don't think he was like it wasn't like we were watching,
Speaker 2: you know, Tyreek Hill, but like he was a good
Speaker 2: player in camp or had some moments I should I
Speaker 2: guess I should say in camp, and then he gets
Speaker 2: the collar brodne injury and the whole thing gets dereealed. Look,
Speaker 2: I don't think that he would have been a good
Speaker 2: player regardless, But similar things happened with Nikkeel right where
Speaker 2: he gets injured early on and he was the ankle
Speaker 2: right that landed one injured reserve his rookie season, and
Speaker 2: he just never got he never caught up. It always Yeah,
Speaker 2: it always felt like he was taking on water from
Speaker 2: that point on, and you just hope that it's not
Speaker 2: the same for Taekwon. All right. Offensive line got some
Speaker 2: questions in the emails from David and some other people
Speaker 2: about tackles. My big thing with the offensive line, it's
Speaker 2: to me, it's all on Adrian Clement, Bill O'Brien. You
Speaker 2: know what you have. It's a group that in the past,
Speaker 2: and I'm in the past, they had Dante Scarnekia. I'm
Speaker 2: on record, I think he's the greatest offensive line coach
Speaker 2: of all.
Speaker 1: Time, probably the greatest positional coach.
Speaker 2: So that I understand that Steven Neil and you know
Speaker 2: all these other guys. We always use Steven Neil, right,
Speaker 2: but even but all these other guys like that, Dante
Speaker 2: turned with you took water and turned it into wine.
Speaker 2: Was because Scar a scar and there is no other Scar.
Speaker 2: With that being said, they are going to have some
Speaker 2: issues at tackle this year. I don't think it's a
Speaker 2: straight line. I think it's gonna be an up and
Speaker 2: down road at tackle, and I don't think if there's
Speaker 2: any real solve, there's no internal solve that's just gonna
Speaker 2: make you not have to worry about tackle. And there's
Speaker 2: no external solve all either, because their tackles don't grow
Speaker 2: on trees and they don't get traded or moved very
Speaker 2: often if they can play. So you're gonna have to
Speaker 2: coach around it. You're gonna have to scheme around it.
Speaker 2: You're gonna have to coach guys up. They're gonna have
Speaker 2: to get back to like developing offensive lineman, go figure right,
Speaker 2: like guys like you know, Calvin Anderson. I think is
Speaker 2: is still a a semi ball of clay. I know
Speaker 2: he's been in the league for a couple of years,
Speaker 2: but he's a really good athlete. He started some games
Speaker 2: we go only has twelve starts in three years. I
Speaker 2: think he's got a lot of potential. Maybe they can
Speaker 2: coach him up and make him serviceable at one of
Speaker 2: the tackle spots. Trent Brown like, that's a guy you
Speaker 2: gotta be on. You gotta be on his case. You
Speaker 2: gotta keep him at focused, You got to keep him
Speaker 2: at the right weight. You got to keep them locked
Speaker 2: in maybe one of these rookie guards pops, you know,
Speaker 2: maybe it's Antonio Mafi, maybe it's Uh, it's City Sow.
Speaker 2: Whether it's a tackle or it's guard, right, you got
Speaker 2: to develop some of these.
Speaker 1: Guys to tackle it. And this is to build up
Speaker 1: your point. This is where they're at. Tackle's been there, Evan,
Speaker 1: as long as me and you have been doing shows together.
Speaker 1: Tackles been their biggest leed right, And they haven't used
Speaker 1: a premium mass set on a tackle period, not the draft,
Speaker 1: on free agency, nothing. Yeah, they have to figure out
Speaker 1: the tackle position and to sort of build on what
Speaker 1: you were saying about coaching guys up, and I just
Speaker 1: think the overall coaching of it, because there's some creativity
Speaker 1: that can be involved here too. Nothing should be off
Speaker 1: the table. That means Mike go and win it right.
Speaker 1: That's why I brought up the rookies right, so that
Speaker 1: means Michael winning it right. Tackle if it's Mafi on
Speaker 1: the end side, or giving City sour reps, or being
Speaker 1: open to Trent playing Trent Brown on the left or
Speaker 1: right side, being open to playing Riley Reef on the
Speaker 1: left or right side, I think everybody but McDermott pretty
Speaker 1: much his side versatile. That is the one advantage this
Speaker 1: group has is Trent Brown's a true swing tackle. Riley
Speaker 1: Reef is close. Calvin Anderson's played right tackle.
Speaker 2: I don't know that you system, but like I think ideally,
Speaker 2: and this is putting a lot of eggs in Calvin
Speaker 2: Anderson's basket. I'll put that out there. I think Calvin
Speaker 2: Anderson's a better left tackle and.
Speaker 1: I think he is too. But they need to try everything. Basimply,
Speaker 1: they need to try everything.
Speaker 2: If I was them, I would try Calvin Anderson at
Speaker 2: left tackle with Trent at right.
Speaker 1: That might that's probably their best group. But well, their
Speaker 1: best group is Mike go and win it right tackle. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but they won't do it, I know, but they should
Speaker 1: consider it.
Speaker 2: They should. I think that that especially if.
Speaker 1: They know they're not paying him next year.
Speaker 2: That has to come. That comes two weeks in right, Like,
Speaker 2: if they.
Speaker 1: I hate that, you're not wrong. You're not wrong.
Speaker 2: If they get to like Green Bay, if we're on
Speaker 2: the plane to freaking Lambeau for yeah whatever, and uh
Speaker 2: and it's disaster.
Speaker 1: Oh two weeks in a camp into camp. I thought, regular, No.
Speaker 2: I think that you have to do that before, way
Speaker 2: before the regularly.
Speaker 1: It has to be yeah, okay. That's why I was like,
Speaker 1: I hate that because he can't start.
Speaker 2: I think a lot of the times what happens is,
Speaker 2: I think it's ten days of camp before we get
Speaker 2: into joint practices, and they kind of I think they
Speaker 2: use those early stages of camp to set what they
Speaker 2: think that they have right, and then we get to
Speaker 2: the joint practices and that's when they see if it
Speaker 2: can hold that.
Speaker 1: That's when the evaluation really ran.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, they I could see them looking at the
Speaker 2: that ten days sample and saying, you know what we got, Like,
Speaker 2: we're gonna go to Green Bay and we're gonna kick
Speaker 2: a mic out to right tackle and we're gonna put
Speaker 2: in Tony Omaffi in at right guard, and we're going
Speaker 2: to see how that looks against the Packers. And I
Speaker 2: think that that's a possibility. I'm with you on one,
Speaker 2: one hundred percent. I think that him playing right tackle
Speaker 2: needs to be on the table for this team. I
Speaker 2: would ideally like to keep him at guard. I think
Speaker 2: they would too, but it has to be on the
Speaker 2: table that he could potentially be a right tackle for
Speaker 2: this year. I think he's the best right tackle they
Speaker 2: have on the roster besides maybe Trent, But Trent's probably
Speaker 2: the best left tackle they have on the roster. So
Speaker 2: he's just the best tackle they have. So wherever Trent
Speaker 2: isn't you know, if Trent is going to play the
Speaker 2: left side, then I think that on when who's your
Speaker 2: best right tackle on the roster and you got to
Speaker 2: give it a shot.
Speaker 1: I just think everything you know, who would have thought
Speaker 1: that their best five in twenty one would involve Ted Carres?
Speaker 1: Who would have thought going into the season, especially after
Speaker 1: the rookie or Micro and went Who add that the
Speaker 1: best offensive line right involved putting Micro and Winner on
Speaker 1: the bench And that's it took him a while to
Speaker 1: get there, but that's what ended up being. And I'd
Speaker 1: rather them figure that out, like you said, in Green
Speaker 1: Bay or in Tennessee than you know, approaching Halloween. So
Speaker 1: just I think it all needs to be on the
Speaker 1: table and whatever works, it works, and you just cross
Speaker 1: your fingers and you hope it sticks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm with you on that because it's a Again,
Speaker 2: it's an old scarrism of seeing it through the same
Speaker 2: set of eyes and sometimes the same your best five
Speaker 2: isn't your isn't on paper your best five? Right, Sometimes
Speaker 2: it's Ted Carris is your Actually it actually makes up
Speaker 2: your best five, just because the chemistry and the timing
Speaker 2: and the rhythm of the group is better, uh with
Speaker 2: Ted Carris than Mike on Wenhu. Even though on paper,
Speaker 2: if we're doing Madden ratings, like Mike Godwin who has
Speaker 2: a higher matting rating than Ted Carris, but once you
Speaker 2: get out there on the field, it just looks better
Speaker 2: with Ted Carris out there. So I'm with you, all
Speaker 2: all hands on deck, all options on the table. I
Speaker 2: liked what I saw out of Calvin Anderson in the spring,
Speaker 2: so I'm hoping that maybe he can carry that over
Speaker 2: at left tackle with the pads come on, and maybe
Speaker 2: he is better bet at left tackle for you. He's
Speaker 2: got some athleticism, some range, he can pass protect. He
Speaker 2: fits the mold of their typical like more sleek, athletic
Speaker 2: like Nate Solder style left tackle.
Speaker 7: Right.
Speaker 2: I think that the power guys, they tend to be
Speaker 2: better with them on the right side and then on
Speaker 2: the left side, just the way that their scheme in
Speaker 2: the run game especially works. So I would like to
Speaker 2: see Calvin Anderson there a left tackle all right, moving
Speaker 2: over defensive side of the football, turning the page defensive line.
Speaker 2: One big thing I think maybe the most forgotten player
Speaker 2: on this team going into this season is Christian Barmore. Yeap,
Speaker 2: what like, did we just forget that Christian Barmore I
Speaker 2: And I'm saying me, no, he was I forgot. I
Speaker 2: mean he was hurt a lot of the year last year,
Speaker 2: he at so he's kind of out of sight, out
Speaker 2: of mind. I have him too.
Speaker 1: I think the year three jump with him. How many
Speaker 1: you know, we've kind of we spent a lot of
Speaker 1: time leading up last year talking about if Christian Barmore
Speaker 1: takes the leap, the defense goes from good to great. Right,
Speaker 1: It's another element to the defense. You get that interior
Speaker 1: pass rush in. I know people wen't really happy with
Speaker 1: how he was playing early in the year, but if
Speaker 1: if if you look beyond the box score and you
Speaker 1: actually watched the tape, like he was an issue still
Speaker 1: an impact, right, he was making it. He was an
Speaker 1: issue for offense. I should say he was making an impact.
Speaker 1: He wasn't getting sacks, but there were times where he
Speaker 1: was just chasing the quarterback into sacks for Matthew Judah
Speaker 1: and things like that, and then he got hurt and
Speaker 1: I think he missed. He missed like two months. He
Speaker 1: missed a while long time, and I don't think he
Speaker 1: was fully healthy when he got back. Just that's not
Speaker 1: like inside information. Just watching him, he didn't look as
Speaker 1: explosive as he normally looks. Here we go, he's fully healthy.
Speaker 1: Year three, can he make that jump? I will say, though,
Speaker 1: if he doesn't make it this year, I think then
Speaker 1: he just is who he is, which is still a
Speaker 1: good player. But yeah, yeah, you look at it, and
Speaker 1: this is for all the for everything we've talked about
Speaker 1: with Mac Jones and the fifty year option, it's not
Speaker 1: all that different. Well, for Barbour there is no fifth
Speaker 1: year option. This is it three and four, right, He's
Speaker 1: up for the extension this time next year, So.
Speaker 2: It's it's not that all that different. It just we
Speaker 2: got there very differently, Like Mac had the coaching is
Speaker 2: and all that kind of stuff last year and Barmore
Speaker 2: had injuries. But there are two players that we expected
Speaker 2: to make a year two leap that has now unfortunately
Speaker 2: become a year three leap, right, And I still think
Speaker 2: that potential is there for Christian Barmore, And I still
Speaker 2: think that he has the ability to do it. And
Speaker 2: if he becomes a true interior game wrecker for you,
Speaker 2: And now you have Barmore coming up the middle, and
Speaker 2: you have Judon and Uce and Keon White potentially mixing
Speaker 2: in now too on the edges and getting after quarterbacks,
Speaker 2: that's that's really really deep. It's a good group. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's a good defensive line. I think he's one of
Speaker 2: those guys that and I did my top five Patriot list,
Speaker 2: I was like, well, in reality, like if I'm just
Speaker 2: going off of pure talent, then Christian Barmore probably is
Speaker 2: pretty close to this top five, Like, yeah, just who
Speaker 2: is the best physical football player on this team? Christian
Speaker 2: Barmore is in that conversation. I think, maybe not the
Speaker 2: top of the conversation. I still think Judon is in
Speaker 2: his kind of a class of his own, to be honest,
Speaker 2: Kyle Duggar belongs in that that ballpark or that tier.
Speaker 2: But I think Christian Barmore is in that mix as well.
Speaker 2: So we're in agreement on defensive line that it's Christian Barmore.
Speaker 2: I think that he doesn't get talked about enough with
Speaker 2: this team taking that next step because they do have
Speaker 2: some of the younger defenders, you know, gonzales A Mapu. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and he kind of gets lost a little bit. Let's
Speaker 2: I don't I think it's important at edge here outside linebacker.
Speaker 2: Excuse me, edge. I'm gonna say edge, just to grind
Speaker 2: your gears. Edge. It's a big thing with josh u j.
Speaker 2: I think it's a big thing that we have to
Speaker 2: we touch on. His season last year was interesting. There
Speaker 2: is some regressing to the mean potential there and there's
Speaker 2: also the potential that he's just really good. Right, So
Speaker 2: either way, what can josh u Ja do to earn
Speaker 2: a second contract in Bill Belichick's eyes? Because to me,
Speaker 2: racking up up eight sacks in the second half of
Speaker 2: the year, all of his sacks last year came eleven
Speaker 2: or eleven Excuse me, I mean last eight weeks of
Speaker 2: the year, last eight weeks. All of his sacks last
Speaker 2: year came in the second half of the season.
Speaker 1: I mean it's right there. It's consistency, and I think
Speaker 1: you talk about the second contract, it's a little bit
Speaker 1: of a fallacy I or a catch twenty two. I
Speaker 1: guess his name is I don't think that that's something
Speaker 1: that's That's one of two things is gonna happen. Either
Speaker 1: he proves the end of last year was I don't
Speaker 1: want to say a fluke because he played well, but
Speaker 1: like he proves that it wasn't sustainable. He goes back
Speaker 1: to the player he was the first two and a
Speaker 1: half years of his career, and at that point, I mean,
Speaker 1: you can't extend him, but it's kind of a you know,
Speaker 1: replacement level player. Or he proves that the second half
Speaker 1: of last year is the player he really is, in
Speaker 1: which case he's going to beat that's more than he was,
Speaker 1: averaging more to sack per game. He probably becomes one
Speaker 1: of the top five free agents in the market and
Speaker 1: the Patriots aren't gonna pay him.
Speaker 2: How sad is it that him actually regressing back to
Speaker 2: the mean is the way that he gets retained by
Speaker 2: the page.
Speaker 1: I think he has retained either way sad well, I
Speaker 1: guess he gets retained if it's somewhere in the middle.
Speaker 1: But think about it, if you're the if you're josh Ucha,
Speaker 1: why would you sign an extension right now? You're probably
Speaker 1: gonna bet on what you did in the second half
Speaker 1: last year. And if you're the Patriots, why would you
Speaker 1: sign extension right now because the guy hasn't been consistent.
Speaker 1: You have an eight game sample size over three years
Speaker 1: to work with. So he's gonna go. He's gonna go
Speaker 1: into this season and play. And it's just I either
Speaker 1: he was the guy, he's one of two players. It's
Speaker 1: this is essentially kind of what we're doing with Mac Jones,
Speaker 1: but on a different scale. Two sacks through his first
Speaker 1: I think it's like twenty five games and then eleven
Speaker 1: in his last eight. Which guy is he? Either guy?
Speaker 1: I don't think the Patriots pay They want consistent middle
Speaker 1: like I don't want to say middle of the road
Speaker 1: pass rushers, but they want consistent guys. They want pass
Speaker 1: rushers who bring consistency. And if there's one thing, I
Speaker 1: think josh Uja is a pretty good player, but he's
Speaker 1: not consistent. You can't sit here and say he's consistent
Speaker 1: and that's what the Patriots want from that position.
Speaker 2: And you look at you know, I'm just pulling this
Speaker 2: up real quick. You look at sort of comps of
Speaker 2: what josh U j could get paid on the open market,
Speaker 2: and the contract that I look at as a decent
Speaker 2: comp and I think the one thing that you have
Speaker 2: to throw out there is that. And I said this
Speaker 2: on Twitter and people were like, oh, yeah, like you know,
Speaker 2: my my wife is you know my wasn't my If
Speaker 2: my uncle had what it would be my he'd be
Speaker 2: my aunt or something.
Speaker 1: Like that or whatever my uncle had wheels, he'd be away.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go. Whatever that's saying is. But in
Speaker 2: a different defensive system, I truly believe Josh j would
Speaker 2: play more.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, there's some of that because let me
Speaker 1: just real quick, because I feel like I kind of
Speaker 1: just dumped on him a little bit. He's not it's
Speaker 1: a little Chandler Jones ish with him, whereas I remember
Speaker 1: they remember they let Chandler Jones walk and he almost
Speaker 1: set the NFL record for saxon a season.
Speaker 2: Chandler Jones is the one guy that maybe it wouldn't
Speaker 2: have worked out as well here, But that's the one
Speaker 2: guy that I would have gone back and paid, like
Speaker 2: right if you had to.
Speaker 1: He's not whatever it was it was like twenty one
Speaker 1: sacks he had that year. He's not getting twenty one
Speaker 1: sacks here because that's not how they play defense, right.
Speaker 1: I think Josh I don't think josh is gonna go
Speaker 1: be a twenty sack player somewhere, but I think there
Speaker 1: is some of that where he's just he's at his
Speaker 1: best when he can pin his ears back and go,
Speaker 1: and that's really not something they've ever done. They've started
Speaker 1: doing it just for Matthew, but because of Matthew Judon.
Speaker 1: They do it for Judon, because Judon's that good. And
Speaker 1: so unless Uch's like the because Judon's got I think
Speaker 1: two more years.
Speaker 2: He signed through twenty five and he's getting up there,
Speaker 2: he's like thirty one.
Speaker 1: Unless Uch is the replacement for Judon, they just that's
Speaker 1: not how they that's not how they the same thing.
Speaker 2: Like played forty percent of the snaps last year roughly, right,
Speaker 2: I think it was like thirty eight or thirty nine percent.
Speaker 2: I think in another defense, he's like a sixty percent
Speaker 2: snap guy because he plays a little bit more on
Speaker 2: first and second down, right right, because he's not gonna
Speaker 2: play first and second down here, just because of all
Speaker 2: the stylistic reasons that you laid out. So back to
Speaker 2: the cop the comp that I would save for josh
Speaker 2: Uja that I could think of as a sound reddick
Speaker 2: with the Eagles, who I think is a similar smaller
Speaker 2: edge guy, but has that explosive gear that get off
Speaker 2: that ability to rush the quarterback. Reddick has been better
Speaker 2: against the run, but he's also had more opportunities to
Speaker 2: be better against the run. So he got a three year,
Speaker 2: forty five million dollar deal with the Eagles last year,
Speaker 2: so fifteen million per on a total value basis. It
Speaker 2: was a fourteen point two million dollars signing bonus thirty
Speaker 2: million dollars in guaranteed money, So basically a two year,
Speaker 2: thirty million dollar deal with the play the team option
Speaker 2: for the third season. That's basically what he got. So
Speaker 2: I think if I'm josh josh U J's agent, that's
Speaker 2: that's sort of a starting point, or that's sort of
Speaker 2: what my goal is. I guess say would be something
Speaker 2: along the same lines. In terms of APY. I don't
Speaker 2: know how they structure and all that stuff. In terms
Speaker 2: of APY, I don't think the are coming close to
Speaker 2: paying fifteen million a year for Joshu Jay, which means
Speaker 2: that he's probably out of here anyways. But I I
Speaker 2: really I think he's a good pass rusher. I think
Speaker 2: he's in his bag. He's got like seventeen dinner.
Speaker 1: He's a good pass rusher, but it's just not they
Speaker 1: have one spot for that here and the guy doing
Speaker 1: it does a pretty good job of doing it, and
Speaker 1: he's still under contract for a while. That's fair in
Speaker 1: jude On.
Speaker 2: I'd still pay him, especially with the cap space that
Speaker 2: you have next year, I would pay him. I understand
Speaker 2: they have their reasons and they and they they make sense.
Speaker 2: Like if you are going to live in a world
Speaker 2: and I'm not necessarily saying it's right or wrong, but
Speaker 2: if you're going to live in a world where Jilani
Speaker 2: Devai is still getting first down snaps over the guy
Speaker 2: you're paying fifteen million dollars a year or two, you
Speaker 2: just can't do it right. You can't have that happen.
Speaker 2: And that's that's why I said, you know, brought it
Speaker 2: up as my one big thing at Edge because I
Speaker 2: don't know what the what the world is that Joshu
Speaker 2: j gets a second contract with the Patriots. And it's
Speaker 2: one of those things where it's a little bit tricky
Speaker 2: because you mentioned Chandler Jones not a bad comparison, especially
Speaker 2: because they play the same position. He is deserving if
Speaker 2: he has another good year, I should go, yeah, he's
Speaker 2: deserving of it. Yeah, but it just doesn't necessarily make
Speaker 2: sense with the way that they play defense, right, it's
Speaker 2: a tricky one. I would also just mention quickly at
Speaker 2: edge the other big thing behind Well, look, so.
Speaker 1: They let Chandler Jones walk and then they they you know,
Speaker 1: they had already drafted, but they moved Trey Flowers into
Speaker 1: a bigger role who was a much better fit for
Speaker 1: what they want from that position. So you could see,
Speaker 1: you know, the guy on.
Speaker 2: Ke On White.
Speaker 1: Yeah, actually, and that was my com for him, was
Speaker 1: Trey Flowers. Like, that's that's exactly I was gonna say,
Speaker 1: Ronnie Perkins. But I don't think he's gonna be here,
Speaker 1: but no, ke On White somebody. Yeah, so you let
Speaker 1: u cha walk, you don't pay him. Ke On White's
Speaker 1: probably gonna play that role more the way they want
Speaker 1: to play it. You already him in the building. You
Speaker 1: go take that fifteen million dollars, I'd say, go spend
Speaker 1: it on a receiver who knows how they'll spend it.
Speaker 2: On seventeen different plays exactly. Yeah, but Keon White's the guy.
Speaker 2: That was my other sort of spin off of that
Speaker 2: is behind Judah and Ucha. There's not a whole lot
Speaker 2: of proven Jennings. Anthony Jennings. I'm not forgetting about him
Speaker 2: this time. I just did. I I know. But do
Speaker 2: you think he's proven talent? Like, do you think he's
Speaker 2: a proven commodity?
Speaker 1: I think he's played. He's a backup significant NFL snaps okay,
Speaker 1: and he's held his own in playing significant NFL like
Speaker 1: proven is what I guess. My point is is like
Speaker 1: it is a third edge guy. Yeah, I feel very
Speaker 1: comfortable with him there.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna use the old Dave Damna check like Jenga analogy.
Speaker 2: If you pull Matthew Judon out of the Jenga tower,
Speaker 2: who who has a big enough piece to make sure
Speaker 2: the whole thing doesn't come out?
Speaker 7: Well?
Speaker 1: You know what I would say, on a difference, it's
Speaker 1: not Anthony Jennings. But on a different scale, if you
Speaker 1: pull Anthony Jennings out, now, who's after him? I think
Speaker 1: he's the buffer. He's the buffer you.
Speaker 2: Like Anthroonty Jenning? I do, I think Alaya.
Speaker 1: I think he's a good rotational third edge guy. So
Speaker 1: you're and that's the role he's gonna be.
Speaker 2: So then if that's the case, then they don't have
Speaker 2: depth to shoes at that position.
Speaker 1: Well behind him they have nobody, and that's a position
Speaker 1: that gets and.
Speaker 2: Then it probably becomes like a morgas Borg of like
Speaker 2: Jolanie Devai and Keon White and like a bunch, you know,
Speaker 2: a couple of different games.
Speaker 1: It would be really nice to see if Ronnie Perkins
Speaker 1: can even turn into a guy that like they can
Speaker 1: elevate from the practice squad.
Speaker 2: That's it. But that's that's what we're talking about, because
Speaker 2: I like Ronnie Perkins coming out. I thought he had
Speaker 2: potential all right, off ball linebackers, inside linebackers. But you
Speaker 2: know where I'm going, Yeah, I am. It's too many
Speaker 2: of these have been the same.
Speaker 1: This is a little weird.
Speaker 2: It's the prodigal son of the Patriots defense. It's my
Speaker 2: it's my prodigal son, I should say it's Marty Mapo.
Speaker 2: Is this team that predictable or are we have we
Speaker 2: just been spending way too much time together. I think
Speaker 2: it's the fact that we've basically done this show in
Speaker 2: like a different way for like six.
Speaker 1: Plus all the times we've done it via text message.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like this is this is this is when you
Speaker 2: know that camp means to get here. Uh, it's Marty Mapoo.
Speaker 2: It's not only him as a player, it's how they
Speaker 2: use him. Yeah, it's if they're willing to use him
Speaker 2: the way that we want him to use him, which
Speaker 2: is at linebacker, not at safety, and not at like
Speaker 2: Kyle Dugger safety like no. I want him playing linebacker,
Speaker 2: inside linebacker and next to Juwan Bentley, who I think
Speaker 2: is gonna be rock solid for you again this year
Speaker 2: with Bentley and Mapu, to me, has a lot of potential.
Speaker 2: I think that he's got He's might be the missing
Speaker 2: ingredient to solving some of these mobile quarterbacks. He might
Speaker 2: be he might be a Josh Allen killer. And if
Speaker 2: that's if that's what he ends up being, then then
Speaker 2: watch out with this defense. I think this defense that
Speaker 2: to me is the biggest X factor. I think a
Speaker 2: lot of people make Christian Gonzalez the biggest X factor.
Speaker 2: I kind of know or feel like I know what
Speaker 2: they're gonna get at a Gonzalez this year. I'm not
Speaker 2: saying it's gonna be perfect. I think there's gonna be
Speaker 2: ups and downs to it, certainly, But I think that
Speaker 2: with Gonzalez, you know that you're probably gonna have a
Speaker 2: starting outside corner on a rookies like kind of like
Speaker 2: Devin mccordy his rookie year right, Like, it might not
Speaker 2: be perfect, but he's gonna be able to hold down
Speaker 2: the position and play it at a pretty good level.
Speaker 2: Marty Mapo is the X factor. He's the swing guy.
Speaker 2: If he is is a force like we think he
Speaker 2: might be able to be. I think that their defense
Speaker 2: just got a whole lot better in terms of the
Speaker 2: upside of the defense, especially against mobile quarterbacks. And they
Speaker 2: once again, not all of them are like super mobile,
Speaker 2: but Jalen Hurts is on the schedule, Josh Allen's on
Speaker 2: the schedule, Mahomes is on the schedule, Herbert's on the schedule,
Speaker 2: and then in Miami they still run a lot of
Speaker 2: RPO option looks with Tuo, even though he's not truly
Speaker 2: mobile mobile, they still run a lot of that stuff.
Speaker 2: So solving these like college spread offenses and these athletic
Speaker 2: quarterbacks playing the position, it's Marty Mapoo. He's might be
Speaker 2: one of the biggest things out of all the big things.
Speaker 2: I kind of narrowed in on it a little bit,
Speaker 2: just what does he look like? In fully padded practice.
Speaker 2: I feel like from the spring we got a good
Speaker 2: idea about his athleticism as instincts was football IQ all that,
Speaker 2: and they all check the boxes like they there's a
Speaker 2: reason we were raving about him. But he's still six
Speaker 2: three two seventeen and that's not big for Patriots linebacker.
Speaker 2: When he's got to take on a guard in the
Speaker 2: a gap, Yeah, what is that gonna look like? That
Speaker 2: is the biggest Just hope, all right, let all right,
Speaker 2: let me that. I hope I know what you mean.
Speaker 1: That old no no, no, no no, because I miss
Speaker 1: that old phrase came back like they shouldn't ask him
Speaker 1: to do that. That's why Bentley's here.
Speaker 2: Let me phrase that.
Speaker 1: What happens when he has to tackle a two hundred
Speaker 1: and twenty pound running back in space? Yeah sure, or
Speaker 1: a two hundred and forty pound quarterback in space maybe
Speaker 1: in you know, I don't think Malik Willis is that big,
Speaker 1: but you know Malik Willis or or Will Levis when
Speaker 1: they get to that test game, or even Ryan Tannehill,
Speaker 1: like these are bigger guys. Yeah, what happens when he's
Speaker 1: one on one with that quarterback? Can he chase him? Down.
Speaker 1: Can he bring him down when it's tight ends over
Speaker 1: the middle of things like that, Like, I just need
Speaker 1: to see him in contact because that's the last box
Speaker 1: he hasn't checked. He shouldn't be shooting the a gap.
Speaker 1: I regret I said that. That's why Bentley's here. He's
Speaker 1: even said he's playing next to Bentley. Bentley's gonna run
Speaker 1: downhill and Martine mop who's gonna handle your east to west?
Speaker 2: Correct?
Speaker 1: But I want to see him basically just physically take
Speaker 1: on bigger players.
Speaker 2: You got the you got the hammer, and you got
Speaker 2: the chaser, right Like, that's that's.
Speaker 1: All like a butterfly's thing, like a big right there
Speaker 1: you go.
Speaker 2: That's what you need with Marty Mapu.
Speaker 1: But the butterflies gotta have a little bit of bike.
Speaker 2: All right. Let's move on to court. Let's move on
Speaker 2: to safeties, because I think linebacker and safety in this
Speaker 2: defense is is pretty There's some overlap.
Speaker 1: There where it did a tight end before wide receivers.
Speaker 1: So just throw the whole order out.
Speaker 2: Is there an order? Yeah? Yeah, but what do you mean?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 1: The baden order quarterback, running back, receiver, tight end, line
Speaker 1: d line, linebacker, corner, safety, specialists.
Speaker 2: Your order is based off of Madden.
Speaker 1: Everybody's orders based off of that.
Speaker 2: Well, they're showing the John Madden football life on the TV.
Speaker 1: It's also the order that that the fantasy football stuff
Speaker 1: is in, and it's it's I don't know where it's started.
Speaker 1: Going to safeties. That has always quarterback, running back, Okay,
Speaker 1: wide receiver, tight end, tackle, guard, center, defensive inside linebacker,
Speaker 1: outside linebacker, corner, free safety, strong safety, kicker on her
Speaker 1: third down running back.
Speaker 2: We're going to safeties because there's overlap with the linebackers.
Speaker 1: No, I'm saying, we already threw out the order, so
Speaker 1: just go for it.
Speaker 2: My one big thing at safety, you know what, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna allow you to go to first because I keep
Speaker 2: stealing your one big thing. So I'm gonna be generous
Speaker 2: and I'm gonna allow you to go first.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna kind of pick up where I left off
Speaker 1: in the spring, which is like, how are the deep
Speaker 1: safety reps getting split up? It's clear that it's going
Speaker 1: to be by committee. We saw that in the spring,
Speaker 1: and we saw certain guys more than others. Jabrill Peppers
Speaker 1: played a pretty big role. I thought you saw Kyle
Speaker 1: Duggar back there a bunch Adrian Phillips a little bit,
Speaker 1: but you know, this is more of a joint practice thing.
Speaker 1: I don't know how much of this we'll see early on,
Speaker 1: but you know, Green Bay, Tennessee two minute trail, Ones
Speaker 1: on ones, Who's back? Who's deep?
Speaker 3: Is it?
Speaker 2: Is it one? Is it two? Is it rotate?
Speaker 1: Is it rotation? It's Jonathan Jones back. They're just all
Speaker 1: of it. Ed's kind of cut into that. I got
Speaker 1: asked on my mail bag this week on ninety eight
Speaker 1: five the Sports of dot Com, who is my surprise
Speaker 1: like potential breakout player for the Patriots is here? On defense?
Speaker 1: I have Dabrill Peppers.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think last year he was coming off Torney cl
Speaker 1: he was in a new system, and he was pretty
Speaker 1: good last year and well it remember took a while.
Speaker 1: It was the second half he started to come on.
Speaker 1: Now he's healthy, he's got a full year in the system.
Speaker 1: He hit his stride late in the year. He's going
Speaker 1: to beat the whole It seems like the whole thing
Speaker 1: for the safeties this year, just overall's versatility. The way
Speaker 1: they're going to make the most out of the safety
Speaker 1: position is putting guys in different spots and mixing and matching,
Speaker 1: and no player is better suited for that than Jabrill Peppers. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I don't know that he's gonna be like they're
Speaker 1: starting deep safety. I don't even know that he's going
Speaker 1: to be their most used safety.
Speaker 2: He's such one of those guys that it's kind of
Speaker 2: and I know that this is different because it's started
Speaker 2: here and ended here, but like it's like Patrick Chung,
Speaker 2: where like Bill's just the right coach to figure out
Speaker 2: how to use them, and early on in his career
Speaker 2: goes to Cleveland, he's like this, he's like the Heisman
Speaker 2: runner up.
Speaker 1: Or in college and they didn't use him right at all, Right.
Speaker 2: And it just it takes a coach like Bill who
Speaker 2: who is so good at taking guys that are are
Speaker 2: a tweeners and these like outside the box players and
Speaker 2: putting them into it.
Speaker 1: Well, it's funny. Joe Judge kind of figured or I
Speaker 1: forget who the DC was under Judge, but I think
Speaker 1: it was Patrick Graham, who is a Patriots guy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's in Vegas now, right, he's sorting maritainus. They kind
Speaker 1: of figured he kind of figured out in New York
Speaker 1: and then he tours. Acl right, he had a really
Speaker 1: good year in twenty one or no, he had a
Speaker 1: really good year in twenty and then towards a cl
Speaker 1: in twenty one and then came here. So he's still young.
Speaker 1: People didn't realize how young he's still young. I am
Speaker 1: really excited for what Chah Bill Peppers is gonna do
Speaker 1: this year. I think he could be like I again,
Speaker 1: I don't know that he's gonna be their most of
Speaker 1: use safety. I think Duggart's gonna play more. I think Pepper's.
Speaker 1: I think Phillips is gonna play more. But like third down,
Speaker 1: gotta have it downs, I think they're gonna put Jabrill
Speaker 1: Peppers on the field in a spot to make a play,
Speaker 1: and I think he's gonna make some plays, all right.
Speaker 2: I like that.
Speaker 1: I like that.
Speaker 2: I think, you know, since it's a big thing, I'm
Speaker 2: picking more big picture as well. I still think the
Speaker 2: we talked about Jenga, Yeah, I still think how they
Speaker 2: replace the leadership lost by Devin mccorty is it is
Speaker 2: maybe the biggest change.
Speaker 1: I guess I didn't think of that because it's it's weird,
Speaker 1: because that's like mccordy, we're doing this by position. McCarty's
Speaker 1: a safety, but I think that honestly comes from linebacker
Speaker 1: in corner.
Speaker 2: It just feels like they absolutely they need to figure
Speaker 2: out a communication process early on in camp, and they
Speaker 2: need to stick with it, and guys need to take
Speaker 2: on that responsible That's a big part of.
Speaker 1: The reason I want John Jones as safety.
Speaker 2: They can't just force that on somebody. Yeah, like if
Speaker 2: it's not if it's if you're not built for it,
Speaker 2: and you're not, it's not a responsibility you want to
Speaker 2: take on. You can't just be thrown into it. Well, well,
Speaker 2: look Bentley is probably going to do something quarterback to
Speaker 2: front seven. That's not a problem.
Speaker 1: I still think John Jones is the guy now. If
Speaker 1: he's playing boundary corner, that's really hard for me to do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he could probably do it a little bit more
Speaker 2: from Nickel, But I think the biggest thing is is
Speaker 2: like when you're back there, you just see it right,
Speaker 2: Like you see the whole formation and you can kind
Speaker 2: of scan it and and see it's like a quarterback
Speaker 2: right now, you can sit back there and kind of
Speaker 2: figure out where everything is coming.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's Phillips. I just he's a smart guy.
Speaker 2: Well, We're listening to Belichick talk at Devin mccorty's retirements
Speaker 2: press conference, and who's talking about that AFC Championship game
Speaker 2: against Kansas City and all of the different checks and
Speaker 2: all the different calls that Devin made in that game
Speaker 2: to make sure that they had Tyreek Hill cover lock.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and.
Speaker 2: That's gonna happen again this year. Obviously, it's gonna happen
Speaker 2: literally with the same player twice this year with Tyreek Hill.
Speaker 2: But in general, it's gonna happen, and they're gonna have
Speaker 2: to be able to figure it out. I think the
Speaker 2: one thing, and I always give Bill credit for this,
Speaker 2: the one thing that makes their defense so great is
Speaker 2: they don't beat themselves defensively. They are structurally sound. They
Speaker 2: are terrifically structurally sound. I know some places that track
Speaker 2: it is a little bit subjective of how they track it,
Speaker 2: but like in terms of like busted coverage rate, the
Speaker 2: Patriots are always, you know, the top of the league,
Speaker 2: and how good they are at not doing that right.
Speaker 2: Like they don't just let guys run through. They don't
Speaker 2: just lose guys like twenty yards behind the defense like
Speaker 2: that thing. That type of thing just doesn't happen here.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying they don't get beat, but they get
Speaker 2: beat because it's just man on man. They get beat, right, right,
Speaker 2: But they don't beat themselves. They're not you know, they
Speaker 2: don't play cover three and they they don't have a hook,
Speaker 2: right and you're looking around and you're like, who's the hook? Right, Like,
Speaker 2: they don't. That stuff doesn't happen with the Pats. And
Speaker 2: a lot of that was because they basically had a
Speaker 2: defensive coordinator on the field in the back end. It's safe, right,
Speaker 2: a lot of that and it's gonna be a big
Speaker 2: deal for them. It's gonna be a big deal. All right,
Speaker 2: let's move over to corners. One big thing at corner.
Speaker 2: I thought about going Christian Gonzales here. It's it's it's
Speaker 2: it's low hanging fruit. I'll let you take that one.
Speaker 1: I mean live reps, Like, how does he look in
Speaker 1: live reps?
Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't want to say, yeah, pads on physicality, right, Like,
Speaker 2: how does he take that on as a as a
Speaker 2: more slender guy. The one thing that I'm gonna I
Speaker 2: think that the position I'm trying to think. I want
Speaker 2: to phrase this exactly. I think the Nickel position needs
Speaker 2: to be upgraded from Miles Bryant, and I hate picking
Speaker 2: directly on Myles bryan All.
Speaker 1: In theory, they have two better options than Jonathan Jones
Speaker 1: and Marcus Jones didn't have last year. Now, some of
Speaker 1: that goes to Jack Jones and Jalen Mills, but one
Speaker 1: of those two guys should be able, assuming everybody's healthy,
Speaker 1: one of those two guys should be able to play
Speaker 1: in there. This goes back to something Evan I talked
Speaker 1: about a lot last week. I'd still like to see
Speaker 1: them out a veteran boundary corner, like a true third
Speaker 1: veteran boundary corner, even if it's just Terrence Mitchell coming back,
Speaker 1: just so you don't end up in a spot this
Speaker 1: year where you're having to play both Jonathan Jones and
Speaker 1: Marcus Jones on the boundary regularly.
Speaker 2: Correct, But I hear you. I guess uh, Christian Gonzas
Speaker 2: is on one side, Jonathan Jones on the other side
Speaker 2: for now, Right, we're assuming that Jack Jones is not available, right,
Speaker 2: isn't Jalen Mills that.
Speaker 1: Guy unless they're just going to play him at safety?
Speaker 1: They It seems pretty clear that Jalen Mills is just
Speaker 1: a safety now. So yeah, to be fair, moving Jalen
Speaker 1: Mills back to corner could be the thing, but it's
Speaker 1: I think just like I think they're just done with that.
Speaker 2: I think Jalen Mills for them this year. I think
Speaker 2: they were done with it before Jack Jones. Okay, situation,
Speaker 2: that's fair, that's fair post Jack Jones situation, and I
Speaker 2: and I don't want to get too much into the
Speaker 2: into the Jack Jones thing, but post Jack Jones situation,
Speaker 2: I think Jalen Mills is he's a fire extinguisher. He
Speaker 2: puts out fires. Now, if in some game plans he's
Speaker 2: better at safety, he's gonna play safety. In some game plans,
Speaker 2: he's better at corner. He's gonna play corner. And when
Speaker 2: I say better, I mean more use for the matchup.
Speaker 2: So if when they play Cincinnati, instead of having to
Speaker 2: run Jonathan Jones against T Higgins, now, now maybe Jalen
Speaker 2: Mills plays corner that game and Jonathan Jones gets who
Speaker 2: goes back into the middle of the field for the day.
Speaker 2: If they're playing a match against Miami, maybe Miami is
Speaker 2: a matchup where Jalen plays more, plays more safety because
Speaker 2: they have smaller receivers, and they don't necessarily need Jalen
Speaker 2: Mills to play on the outside. I think Jalen Mills
Speaker 2: now goes and puts fires out.
Speaker 1: I like that, and I if that's if that's great.
Speaker 2: I think it's a really really valuable role. I think
Speaker 2: that that's like one of the things I'm more excited
Speaker 2: about with this defense is that they have that they
Speaker 2: have somebody they can move around like that I wouldn't
Speaker 2: call quite like a queen on the chessboard, maybe like
Speaker 2: a like a night or a rook right, Like, it's.
Speaker 1: Like, what uh to cross sports for a second, what
Speaker 1: brock Holt was and is playing with utility left fielder
Speaker 1: needs a day off, right, Brock, you're playing left field,
Speaker 1: second base. We needs a day off, Brock playing second Like,
Speaker 1: it's just wherever you need him, you can just put
Speaker 1: in there. I hope that's the case, because that then, yeah,
Speaker 1: you don't need that other boundary corner and and you
Speaker 1: save one of John Jones or Marcus Jones to play
Speaker 1: in the slot. And Miles bryan I've said this for
Speaker 1: I don't think Miles Bryant would be a bad third safety,
Speaker 1: fourth safety, whatever, like extra safety that's probably a better
Speaker 1: role than him. We don't need seem in man coverage anymore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agreed, that's a big thing. Yeah, you gotta
Speaker 2: get him out of man coverage. You gotta all right, specialists,
Speaker 2: you're you're your time to shine.
Speaker 1: So, like I said, I'm breaking my preview up into
Speaker 1: two parts. There's the position battle.
Speaker 2: Part seventeen thousand words. So it's actually it needs to
Speaker 2: be broken up into teams.
Speaker 1: Well, no, it's two different things. It's the position battles
Speaker 1: and then everything else to watch. So I obviously position
Speaker 1: battle punter right is a big but for the what
Speaker 1: to watch for the special teams, I'm actually curious just
Speaker 1: how they handle kickoffs. We didn't see a ton of
Speaker 1: kickoff work in the spring. It's a new rule and
Speaker 1: kickoff returns to all of it.
Speaker 2: So do you mean like from a technical standpoint, or
Speaker 2: do you mean like, let's not have Niam Hines happen again.
Speaker 1: All of it? Like, how are they adjusting to the
Speaker 1: new rule. There's you know, they invested in special teams
Speaker 1: in the offseason. They brought in Chris Board, they kind
Speaker 1: of overhaul that position. Just what does the kickoff unit
Speaker 1: look like? What is the return unit look like? Are
Speaker 1: they going to allow teams to return kicks?
Speaker 3: So?
Speaker 1: Are they gonna just try to go for touchbacks? Are
Speaker 1: they going to maybe put some fhis summer returning kicks?
Speaker 1: Are they gonna draw some stuff up? Are they gonna
Speaker 1: line up any differently? Like, I'm just curious how they're
Speaker 1: going to adapt. It is mainly I'm curious how they're
Speaker 1: gonna adapt to the new rules in that phase the game.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we're on the same lines as because
Speaker 2: I'm on a coaching line too, and I think that's
Speaker 2: more coaching. But I look at the way this team
Speaker 2: is constructed and I don't necessarily need them to win
Speaker 2: games in the kicking game, Like it's obviously gravy if
Speaker 2: you have Marcus Jones return a punt for a touchdown
Speaker 2: in a game, or you block a punt or whatever
Speaker 2: the case may be. But they are not going to
Speaker 2: make the playoffs again this year. They're not gonna get
Speaker 2: back to the playoffs if they're losing games because of
Speaker 2: special teams. And when I say losing games, maybe that's
Speaker 2: a little strong, but if special teams is working against them,
Speaker 2: they're gonna have a lot of trouble. I think yeah,
Speaker 2: And they are gonna have to be a clean football
Speaker 2: team again. And this is part of the reason why
Speaker 2: Bill O'Brien's back is to not necessarily because they need to,
Speaker 2: you know, change philosophies to score forty points a game
Speaker 2: or like, it's not that deep. It's simply just they
Speaker 2: need to be cleaner on offense. They need to be
Speaker 2: a more well oiled machine. I think special teams is
Speaker 2: the same way. They need to be cleaner. They can't
Speaker 2: be running into the punter on fourth and three anymore.
Speaker 2: They can't be giving up two kickoff return touchdowns in
Speaker 2: a must win, basically playoff game in Week eighteen of
Speaker 2: the season in Buffalo. We can go down the line
Speaker 2: with all all the things that happened last year that
Speaker 2: needs to change. And in the spring, Alex we saw
Speaker 2: a lot of Joe Judge on special teams. It almost
Speaker 2: felt like exclusively he's the special teams coordinator, even though
Speaker 2: he's not listed as a special teams coordinator. That is
Speaker 2: what it feels like. And if that's the answer, then
Speaker 2: that's the answer. But this, to me is the biggest
Speaker 2: risk that Bill Belichick is taking with this team again.
Speaker 2: This year is he's counting on Joe Judge to do
Speaker 2: something again. He's counting on Joe Judge to clean up
Speaker 2: special team and if special teams are a disaster again.
Speaker 2: All those calls that we didn't get as many of
Speaker 2: them on this show. They know not to call us
Speaker 2: about the drama. They leave that for Patriots unfiltered. But
Speaker 2: all the calls that we get we got earlier today
Speaker 2: on PU about Belichick's future and about his status as
Speaker 2: a coach here with the Patriots, if they lose a
Speaker 2: must win game again like they did last year against
Speaker 2: Buffalo because of kickoff returns, and it's Joe Judge's fault,
Speaker 2: it's just another It's another bullet in the old Ammo chamber.
Speaker 1: Right, like it's you start, We'll start getting the friends
Speaker 1: of Bill talking right again.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: And I also wonder, and I like cam Accord. We
Speaker 2: like cam Accord just getting to know him a little
Speaker 2: bit covering the team. Yeah, I wonder what cam Accord's
Speaker 2: role is, what his thoughts are on all this, how
Speaker 2: he handles it. And it has a trickle down effect too,
Speaker 2: because they have three coaches now coaching special teams, by
Speaker 2: the way, because Joe Houston is still in the building.
Speaker 2: And Joe Houston was the assistants beech teams coach last
Speaker 2: year and Camra Cord was a special teams coordinator. Now
Speaker 2: Joe Houston's basically like the assistant to the assistant special
Speaker 2: teams coach. Right, all right, it's it's the old Dwight true.
Speaker 2: So at what point, like, how does that affect the
Speaker 2: dynamic and how does it affect at all? They need
Speaker 2: to be better in the kicking game. They need to
Speaker 2: go get back to in twenty one they were really
Speaker 2: good in the kicking game. Obviously in twenty they were
Speaker 2: I think that was probably their best year under a Cord.
Speaker 2: That was the year that you know, Gunner goes the
Speaker 2: against All Pro nods as a returner. Bailey was an
Speaker 2: All Pro punter that year. They won games on special
Speaker 2: teams or you know, had big plays in games on
Speaker 2: special teams. I should say this team's gonna need it.
Speaker 2: They're gonna need those points. They're gonna be the hidden yards.
Speaker 2: They're gonna need the occasional block punt, they're gonna need
Speaker 2: the occasional field flipping return. They're gonna need to cover
Speaker 2: kicks well. And if that's how they win, you know,
Speaker 2: that's how they're gonna win, you know, playoff amount of games,
Speaker 2: that's how they're gonna beIN ten to eleven games as
Speaker 2: if they do that. So that's a big deal with
Speaker 2: the special teams. I think that about does it here.
Speaker 2: Like I said at the beginning of the show, Alex
Speaker 2: and I are going to record right after this and
Speaker 2: you guys are gonna hear it next week, A how
Speaker 2: to a faq as Fred called it, of Patriots training camp.
Speaker 2: We're gonna get into the weeds a little bit about
Speaker 2: how we watch camp and that type of stuff. Well,
Speaker 2: altys have some fun with it and give some suggestions
Speaker 2: of you know, lunch spots and that type of thing.
Speaker 2: But it's a it's a Patriots Catch twenty two faq
Speaker 2: on training camp. But don't don't call in next Thursday,
Speaker 2: all right, don't call in, don't email in. It's not
Speaker 2: gonna be live live. We're live to tape. We're live
Speaker 2: to tape, So keep that in mind. And I will
Speaker 2: be on vacation. But and hopefully Just isn't listening to this.
Speaker 2: But if DeAndre Hopkins signed, we might have to do
Speaker 2: an emergency pod. So we'll we'll think about that when
Speaker 2: the cause, well cause everage when we get to it
Speaker 2: all right, But until then, make sure you still listen
Speaker 2: to next week's show. We will have something for you
Speaker 2: in my stead, we promise, but until then, signing off
Speaker 2: for Alex Bart, I'm Evan Lazar. Thanks for watching on YouTube,
Speaker 2: thanks for listening, and we'll speak to you guys next week.
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