1
00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:07,200
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.

2
00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,319
Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's

3
00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,040
Speaker 2: Chuck and Cheers here too, and we all have bandages

4
00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:21,319
Speaker 2: around our heads out of sympathy for a truly great guy.

5
00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,320
Speaker 2: From what I can tell. Oh, yeah, let's go don

6
00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:25,279
Speaker 2: this is stuff you should know.

7
00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,400
Speaker 1: Oh yes, hi everyone, Hi, I'm Chuck.

8
00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:32,280
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'm Chuck too.

9
00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,440
Speaker 1: The Deuce, What is going on? I thought you were

10
00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:38,879
Speaker 1: I thought you were Chuck de Portes.

11
00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:42,000
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, or the Ocho.

12
00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,880
Speaker 1: Yeah boy, I'm trying to make ESPN jokes and it's

13
00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:46,600
Speaker 1: just not happening.

14
00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:50,760
Speaker 2: That worked, Yeah, the Spanish version of esp and I.

15
00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:52,279
Speaker 1: Got no no, I know, but I'm just saying it's

16
00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:52,640
Speaker 1: not good.

17
00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:59,080
Speaker 2: Oh well, I can't argue with that. Should be start over, Hey,

18
00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:03,640
Speaker 2: and welcome to the pop. I'm Josh, there's Chuck, just

19
00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,560
Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, and this is stuff you

20
00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:07,000
Speaker 2: should know.

21
00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:09,280
Speaker 1: That's right, Chuck de Portes.

22
00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:14,560
Speaker 2: Now we have to start over again. You're ready here,

23
00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:16,360
Speaker 2: We'll give everybody a little beep beep.

24
00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:18,120
Speaker 1: Can we talk about Bengo?

25
00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:20,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I was saying. We have bandages around

26
00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:25,759
Speaker 2: our heads because we are in are in solidarity. That's

27
00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,679
Speaker 2: what I'm trying to say with a really great guy.

28
00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:31,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, have you ever seen any of the Van Goo movies?

29
00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:35,800
Speaker 2: I watched one last night. It was a documentary, but

30
00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:38,760
Speaker 2: it was the documentary the one where David Bowie plays

31
00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:39,440
Speaker 2: Andy Warhol?

32
00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:45,280
Speaker 1: H which one? Did Bowie play Warhol?

33
00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:46,480
Speaker 2: In Basquiot?

34
00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:51,080
Speaker 1: Basquiot right? Because he was also played by Crispin Glover

35
00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:55,840
Speaker 1: in the Doors and the Doors and Van Go was

36
00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:57,400
Speaker 1: played by Willem Dafoe.

37
00:01:58,360 --> 00:01:59,720
Speaker 2: That was unwatchable.

38
00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,640
Speaker 1: I never saw that one. It was unwatchable loving Vincent.

39
00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:08,040
Speaker 2: I think that's what it's called. Yeah, I'm almost positive

40
00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:10,720
Speaker 2: it's not because it's bad or the Dialogu's bad or

41
00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:15,280
Speaker 2: anything like that. It's just so shaky and rapid cut

42
00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:19,079
Speaker 2: and shot from weird angles to I guess represent his

43
00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:23,400
Speaker 2: mental illness that I couldn't watch it. I watched like

44
00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,760
Speaker 2: ten minutes, so I was like, oh no, I was disappointed.

45
00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:29,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. I never saw that one. I did see the

46
00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:31,840
Speaker 1: one from the nineties though, the Robert Altman film.

47
00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:34,560
Speaker 2: I didn't know he did one on Are you talking

48
00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:35,360
Speaker 2: about Nashville?

49
00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:40,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll shoots that's the one. No, Vincent Theo with

50
00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:44,000
Speaker 1: Tim Rothis Van Go. That was a yeah, nineteen ninety

51
00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:44,760
Speaker 1: I think it was a good.

52
00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:46,240
Speaker 2: Movie, no idea. I'll have to go back and check

53
00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:46,639
Speaker 2: that out.

54
00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:48,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd like to see it again. I don't think

55
00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:50,239
Speaker 1: i've seen it since college.

56
00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,239
Speaker 2: I feel like a total shmoke because I don't remember

57
00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:58,680
Speaker 2: the name of the documentary, But essentially the premise of

58
00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,760
Speaker 2: it is the documentary went from place to place through

59
00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:04,480
Speaker 2: and just followed Van Go's life because he moved around

60
00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,440
Speaker 2: a lot, as we'll see, and was inspired differently by

61
00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:11,280
Speaker 2: the different places he lived. And they basically talked about

62
00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,120
Speaker 2: how those places inspired him or how they beat him

63
00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,080
Speaker 2: down or whatever, and then they would show you know,

64
00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:23,840
Speaker 2: his like paintings morphing into the structures that are still

65
00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:27,000
Speaker 2: there today or vice versa. It was really good. That's documentary.

66
00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,480
Speaker 2: They talked a lot about his life and it was good.

67
00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,080
Speaker 2: It's very tranquil. I think there was the same thirty

68
00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:37,840
Speaker 2: seconds of very tranquil string music that they used over

69
00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:40,040
Speaker 2: and over and over again. And it was not a problem.

70
00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:44,040
Speaker 1: I think Van Go. I mean, you know, I don't

71
00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,160
Speaker 1: know much about art history. We've talked to we've done

72
00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:47,760
Speaker 1: quite a few shows about this kind of thing over

73
00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:51,080
Speaker 1: the years, and my appreciation for art has grown sort

74
00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:53,800
Speaker 1: of in lockstep. I've always sort of liked Vango's stuff,

75
00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,800
Speaker 1: for sure, but I like him even more now that

76
00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:01,800
Speaker 1: I kind of understand that, you know, he never well,

77
00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:04,440
Speaker 1: I mean, most people, if they know anything about van

78
00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,680
Speaker 1: Go know he never gained fame in his lifetime. But

79
00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:10,560
Speaker 1: he certainly never tried to achieve fame as an artist

80
00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,840
Speaker 1: by like painting what he thought people might want to see.

81
00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:17,680
Speaker 1: He always painted what he you know, his surroundings and

82
00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:19,680
Speaker 1: like you said, depending on where he lived, that varied,

83
00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,560
Speaker 1: and also it seems like really from the heart and

84
00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,680
Speaker 1: his deep, deep emotions, which I have a lot of

85
00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:26,120
Speaker 1: respect for.

86
00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, in that sense, he was a pioneer. The same

87
00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:30,800
Speaker 2: for me too. By the way, I really came to

88
00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:33,080
Speaker 2: like him even more. I think we both came from

89
00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,120
Speaker 2: the same exact spot and ended up in about the

90
00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:36,160
Speaker 2: same exact spot too.

91
00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:37,360
Speaker 1: Look at us.

92
00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,760
Speaker 2: One thing I saw that kind of explained him to me,

93
00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:45,920
Speaker 2: at least, was that he wanted to share the things

94
00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:49,440
Speaker 2: he saw, the beauty he saw everywhere with the world,

95
00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,359
Speaker 2: because it was so beautiful. He wanted to provide that

96
00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,040
Speaker 2: to the world, not in any kind of egotistical way

97
00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,240
Speaker 2: or anything like that, but just like, this is so pretty.

98
00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,440
Speaker 2: I'm going to try my best to express how this

99
00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:04,000
Speaker 2: makes me feel and show the world. And then very

100
00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,880
Speaker 2: sadly the world was like, that's not very good. We

101
00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,920
Speaker 2: don't want now. Thanks for sharing, but keep it to yourself.

102
00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's tough, I mean. In fact, in one letter

103
00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:17,120
Speaker 1: to his brother Theo, he said his allaying anxiety was

104
00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:19,039
Speaker 1: how can I be of use in the world? And

105
00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:21,680
Speaker 1: his you know, what he came to was to be

106
00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:23,919
Speaker 1: an artist, and that he really thought that had and

107
00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,359
Speaker 1: he was right, had a lot of value and that's

108
00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:27,880
Speaker 1: how he would serve in a way.

109
00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:31,000
Speaker 2: Right right, kind of cool. But before he became an artist,

110
00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:35,040
Speaker 2: he pinged around here or there. He's a little aimless

111
00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:38,280
Speaker 2: for a little while. And he was born in eighteen

112
00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,960
Speaker 2: fifty three in the nether Lens or Dare, near Lenz,

113
00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:47,320
Speaker 2: say Holland. Sure his father was Theodorus or I guess

114
00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:51,960
Speaker 2: it'd be Teo Doris van Goch, that's the correct way

115
00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:53,920
Speaker 2: to say it. And I went back and I didn't

116
00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:55,720
Speaker 2: listen to it, but I read the transcript from our

117
00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,840
Speaker 2: episode seven No Waight five mysteries of the art world.

118
00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:02,159
Speaker 2: Were we talked about man go a lot, and you

119
00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:05,960
Speaker 2: correctly said his name. I think here or there or through.

120
00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,800
Speaker 1: I probably was, Yeah, I think I was probably making

121
00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:11,760
Speaker 1: a joke from a Woody Allen movie.

122
00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:13,719
Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, you were. That's exactly what

123
00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:14,360
Speaker 2: you mentioned that.

124
00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:17,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that was a funny part, Ben Goch.

125
00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:21,520
Speaker 2: But the transcription, the AI transcribing it kept saying Van God.

126
00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:25,120
Speaker 2: So I could tell that you were saying Van Goh.

127
00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:26,680
Speaker 1: Okay, oh, I thought you were going to say. The

128
00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:32,400
Speaker 1: AI transcription canceled what I said about Woody Allen. No, No,

129
00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:33,960
Speaker 1: that'd be useful.

130
00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:36,320
Speaker 2: Ill it's coming, don't worry.

131
00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:41,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. So yeah, born in eighteen fifty three, Like you said,

132
00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:44,080
Speaker 1: he had a bunch of siblings. He had five younger siblings,

133
00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:46,760
Speaker 1: Theo the most notable because, as you'll see, they had

134
00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,440
Speaker 1: a very tight relationship and working relationship, which is why

135
00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,120
Speaker 1: Robert Altman made the movie Vincent and Theo. THEO was

136
00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:58,039
Speaker 1: younger by four years. Vincent was, you know, apparently a

137
00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:02,800
Speaker 1: pretty moody, tough kid, and as we'll see, he certainly

138
00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:06,360
Speaker 1: suffered from mental illness throughout his life, but his parents

139
00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:07,680
Speaker 1: didn't know what to do with him. So they sent

140
00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:10,480
Speaker 1: him to boarding school for about four years from twelve

141
00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,480
Speaker 1: to sixteen, at which point he was like, you know what,

142
00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,560
Speaker 1: I'm going to get involved in the art worlds in

143
00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:18,880
Speaker 1: the way of being sort of like an apprentice to

144
00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:21,520
Speaker 1: a dealer, and he learned about the sales side.

145
00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I get the impression he kind of fell into

146
00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,680
Speaker 2: the art world because it was almost a family business selling.

147
00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:29,560
Speaker 1: Art, was the impression.

148
00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, put that in your pipe and smoke it later, right.

149
00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:35,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're probably right.

150
00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:40,000
Speaker 2: So he worked there for I think seven years, yeah,

151
00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:43,640
Speaker 2: until about age twenty three, and this was it was

152
00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,480
Speaker 2: during this period that he fell into what I think

153
00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:52,800
Speaker 2: is viewed as his first true episode of depressions, about

154
00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,040
Speaker 2: of real depression, and it followed on the heels of

155
00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,720
Speaker 2: a I didn't see exactly what it was. Livia helped

156
00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,440
Speaker 2: us with. She just describes it as a romantic disappointment.

157
00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,320
Speaker 2: But that seems to be a trend throughout his life

158
00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,120
Speaker 2: where he did not he was not lucky in love.

159
00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:11,960
Speaker 2: I think the Little River Band would have called him

160
00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:16,320
Speaker 2: the lonesome loser in that respect, and that would trigger

161
00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:20,360
Speaker 2: some of his depressive episodes. But as a result, his

162
00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:24,560
Speaker 2: uncle or whoever ran his uncle's art dealership was like, sorry,

163
00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:25,920
Speaker 2: you're fired.

164
00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:30,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we lost that job. But he did learn

165
00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:32,439
Speaker 1: about the world of art and sort of the business

166
00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:34,839
Speaker 1: of art, even though he didn't, like I say, kind

167
00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:38,000
Speaker 1: of cowtow to the business side of things. He got

168
00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:40,520
Speaker 1: interested in religion for a little while after that job

169
00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:45,160
Speaker 1: and was a I guess an unordained or unlicensed preacher

170
00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:48,080
Speaker 1: for about four years. He never got a theology degree

171
00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,600
Speaker 1: or anything, but he did this work, sort of missionary

172
00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:55,360
Speaker 1: work in Belgium and sort of the poorest parts of

173
00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,480
Speaker 1: Belgium and cold country at the time, and he wanted

174
00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,800
Speaker 1: to you know, very admir didn't want to put on airs,

175
00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:05,320
Speaker 1: and he lived as the people around him lived, and

176
00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:08,559
Speaker 1: was very open and shared what he had with his parishioners.

177
00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:11,400
Speaker 1: But the church wasn't wild about that idea. I think

178
00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,320
Speaker 1: they thought it was sort of beneath the parish. So

179
00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,560
Speaker 1: he got fired from that job as a preacher.

180
00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I have the impression that he was taking

181
00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:23,280
Speaker 2: steps to maybe please his father and just trying to

182
00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,920
Speaker 2: throw himself into religion because he wanted something. He wanted

183
00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,520
Speaker 2: some sort of connection to something bigger than him, and

184
00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:31,760
Speaker 2: I guess that was just the easiest thing to try.

185
00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:34,880
Speaker 2: But also his father, remember he was a Dutch minister,

186
00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:38,559
Speaker 2: so yeah, I could see him doing that, and then

187
00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:40,880
Speaker 2: he kind of failed at that, So that probably didn't

188
00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:41,880
Speaker 2: sit all that well.

189
00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:44,920
Speaker 1: I mean, isn't that kind of the story of a

190
00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:48,200
Speaker 1: lot of people, like boys trying to please daddy who

191
00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:49,960
Speaker 1: didn't approve of them.

192
00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why I became a podcaster. My dad told

193
00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:54,920
Speaker 2: me when I was like seven, He's like, I will

194
00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:57,280
Speaker 2: never respect you unless you grow up to be a podcaster.

195
00:09:57,920 --> 00:09:59,320
Speaker 2: And I was like, I can do that. He said,

196
00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:00,680
Speaker 2: a good one, and I went.

197
00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:05,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, right. I remember my dad at one point suggested

198
00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:08,839
Speaker 1: I've become a mail carrier when I was sort of aimless, just.

199
00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,520
Speaker 2: Like Henry CHENASKI government.

200
00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,280
Speaker 1: Job, good benefits, you could do worse. He was absolutely right,

201
00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:17,960
Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with the job. I just wasn't so

202
00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:18,640
Speaker 1: interested in that.

203
00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:21,839
Speaker 2: So yeah, so he failed to please his father, if

204
00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:23,880
Speaker 2: that's what he was doing, But he kind of we

205
00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:28,880
Speaker 2: all did exactly right well put. But he he was

206
00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,760
Speaker 2: struck by his time in Belgium coal country and he

207
00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,120
Speaker 2: hopped out of there for a little while. But he

208
00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:36,360
Speaker 2: would kind of carry with him, as we'll see, once

209
00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:40,680
Speaker 2: he became an artist, you know, this appreciation or at

210
00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,040
Speaker 2: least kind of this need to shine a spotlight on

211
00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:46,120
Speaker 2: the toil and the suffering of his fellow humans because

212
00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,080
Speaker 2: he cared about them and he thought other people should

213
00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:48,880
Speaker 2: care about him too.

214
00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:54,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I mean he definitely carried around socialist ideas.

215
00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:59,160
Speaker 1: He started to actually study painting because, like I said,

216
00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:01,240
Speaker 1: he had written that letter, THEO saying that he wanted

217
00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:02,960
Speaker 1: to become an artist to try and serve the world

218
00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:05,640
Speaker 1: and bring the beautiful art. So he thought, you know,

219
00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:08,320
Speaker 1: maybe I should study this stuff. Off and on. He

220
00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,040
Speaker 1: lived with his parents, but that never worked out very well,

221
00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:15,719
Speaker 1: as that happened sometimes in real life. He found them

222
00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:18,800
Speaker 1: fairly suffocating, and so he would sort of move around

223
00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:23,120
Speaker 1: in between the Netherlands in Belgium for a period of years.

224
00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,240
Speaker 1: That's not to say his family as a whole didn't

225
00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:29,240
Speaker 1: support him, because THEO, as we'll see, was always very supportive.

226
00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:31,880
Speaker 1: He was working in the art world. He worked for

227
00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:35,200
Speaker 1: a big dealer, and he was very sort of hip

228
00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:37,960
Speaker 1: to the art scene. THEO was and you know what

229
00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:41,920
Speaker 1: was moving and he would end up representing not only

230
00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:44,120
Speaker 1: his brother who was not popular, but other artists who

231
00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:48,000
Speaker 1: were not popular in critical circles like Monet and Goga

232
00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:52,720
Speaker 1: and old latrec are to Louse Latrek.

233
00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, like his brother had that foresight that was like

234
00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,319
Speaker 2: these new impressionist guys, I like what they're doing.

235
00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:00,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, he knew it up.

236
00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:04,000
Speaker 2: But he also very importantly saw, like, my brother actually

237
00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,080
Speaker 2: has something here. This is a good decision that he

238
00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:09,040
Speaker 2: became an artist. It was not at all patronizing, even

239
00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:13,600
Speaker 2: though Tale THEO was his patron which is kind of confusing.

240
00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:18,559
Speaker 2: He genuinely believed in his brother's ability, and he very

241
00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,000
Speaker 2: happily was like, I'm going to give you a monthly

242
00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:25,400
Speaker 2: allowance that I saw was about equal to a minimum

243
00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:28,640
Speaker 2: wage what somebody would earn minimum wage. And it kept him.

244
00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:31,520
Speaker 2: It kept Vincent in the art supplies. I think he

245
00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:33,880
Speaker 2: spent eighty percent of it on art supplies and the

246
00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:37,600
Speaker 2: other twenty percent on just living. But he was able

247
00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:40,920
Speaker 2: to live like that and just produce art, and that's

248
00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:41,880
Speaker 2: what THEO wanted.

249
00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Vincent said, don't patronize me. And he said,

250
00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:49,680
Speaker 1: well that's tricky because technically I am exactly And that

251
00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:51,920
Speaker 1: was about twenty percent of theo's income, So it was

252
00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,680
Speaker 1: not you know, chicken scratch. Why wasn't making it a

253
00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:59,480
Speaker 1: ton of money himself. His cousin was also very supportive

254
00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:01,600
Speaker 1: of him in the way of teaching him. His name

255
00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:05,680
Speaker 1: was Anton mauv and he literally, quite literally taught him

256
00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,360
Speaker 1: like how to paint with oil, how to paint with watercolors,

257
00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,480
Speaker 1: and he had that. I guess it was that same

258
00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:15,040
Speaker 1: uncle who he worked for, would commission works and pay

259
00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:17,559
Speaker 1: him occasionally to like, you know, paint stuff for him.

260
00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:22,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like in art circles. Van Go was like

261
00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,800
Speaker 2: very frequently cited as like only having sold one painting

262
00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:29,480
Speaker 2: during his life. Yeah, that's not correct, not exactly, but

263
00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:32,000
Speaker 2: if you you know, if you want to get technical,

264
00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:35,040
Speaker 2: he sold several paintings, but they were like family and

265
00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,600
Speaker 2: friends and stuff like that. He did sell one painting

266
00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:41,280
Speaker 2: to one person he wasn't an acquaintance of. That's true.

267
00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:44,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, we're gonna be myth busting a little

268
00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,600
Speaker 1: bit along the way because van Go, it seems like,

269
00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,480
Speaker 1: more so than other artists, had a lot of kind

270
00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:52,400
Speaker 1: of falsehoods bandied about over the years. Is that fair

271
00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:53,200
Speaker 1: to say I get.

272
00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:54,559
Speaker 2: To wear the Beret this time.

273
00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:58,760
Speaker 1: Okay, So, like you said, he never had a whole

274
00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,120
Speaker 1: lot of luck with the lady, had a sort of

275
00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:07,080
Speaker 1: a series of disappointments there, but eventually he would have

276
00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,120
Speaker 1: about a year and a half relationship with a woman

277
00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:15,200
Speaker 1: named Cien Hornick. This was in eighteen eighty two. She

278
00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:17,080
Speaker 1: was pregnant at the time and also had a five

279
00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:20,720
Speaker 1: year old daughter. Was a former sex worker, which his

280
00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:24,040
Speaker 1: family didn't like any of this, and his father tried

281
00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:27,640
Speaker 1: to get him I guess committed to an asylum, but

282
00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:30,360
Speaker 1: you know, Venko was having none of it. He was

283
00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:30,720
Speaker 1: in love.

284
00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:32,760
Speaker 2: No, but it would get easier and easier to have

285
00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,680
Speaker 2: him committed as time went on. I guess this is

286
00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:40,000
Speaker 2: just the first attempt and it didn't take so. Like

287
00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,600
Speaker 2: I said, he was kind of taken with the idea

288
00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:47,240
Speaker 2: of peasants, people toiling people growing their own food or

289
00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,760
Speaker 2: making their own living from the land, which he was

290
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:54,320
Speaker 2: infatuated with the land in nature in general. He's almost

291
00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:59,040
Speaker 2: a transcendentalist, I guess, without quite knowing it. And he

292
00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:01,920
Speaker 2: when he moved back with his parents and then was

293
00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:04,720
Speaker 2: bouncing back and forth between Belgium and the Netherlands for

294
00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:08,280
Speaker 2: a little while he was mostly doing studies and paintings

295
00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:12,840
Speaker 2: of peasants, and one of his most famous paintings came

296
00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:16,360
Speaker 2: out of this time. One of his first masterpieces, called

297
00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,320
Speaker 2: The Potato Eaters, was a study of I think five

298
00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:23,920
Speaker 2: peasants sitting around a table eating potatoes, drinking coffee, and

299
00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:29,560
Speaker 2: it's like in hughes of Brown's. Essentially. He said in

300
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:31,560
Speaker 2: a letter to THEO that he wanted it to basically

301
00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:35,040
Speaker 2: be the color of a potato unpeeled. Of course, it's

302
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:39,480
Speaker 2: how we put it, and he nailed it. It's also

303
00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,040
Speaker 2: it's bleak and grim in away but at the same

304
00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:45,920
Speaker 2: time the people almost appear noble, but they're blocky and

305
00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:51,200
Speaker 2: cartoonish almost as far as their forms go. And that

306
00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,400
Speaker 2: was all intentional, but everybody was like, this is terrible.

307
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, people didn't love it. He was sending these paintings

308
00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:00,960
Speaker 1: to THEO to like, hey man, so these and hopefully

309
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,200
Speaker 1: that can kind of help pay you back, but he

310
00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:07,240
Speaker 1: couldn't sell any of them at the time, and he

311
00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,000
Speaker 1: took him to the art market in Paris there but

312
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,320
Speaker 1: no one was into that. You know, his sort of

313
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:13,480
Speaker 1: I don't want to say dower, but I guess it

314
00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,720
Speaker 1: was fairly gloomy, just his color palette. At least this

315
00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:19,640
Speaker 1: would all change though. In eighteen eighty five his father

316
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:23,280
Speaker 1: died and he painted you know very much in tribute

317
00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:26,920
Speaker 1: to his father, something called still Life with Bible, which

318
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,040
Speaker 1: has showed sort of the contrast between himself and his

319
00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:33,840
Speaker 1: father and their ideals, because obviously the open Bible on

320
00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:37,560
Speaker 1: the table was representing his father. But there was also

321
00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,920
Speaker 1: another novel, Lajois de vive, and it was a socialist

322
00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:44,800
Speaker 1: book by a socialist writer named Emil I guess Zola,

323
00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:47,640
Speaker 1: and it was like, you know, here's a contrast between

324
00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:51,160
Speaker 1: my father and I. I paint this in tribute, but

325
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:53,360
Speaker 1: I got to get out of here now. Like he

326
00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,200
Speaker 1: needed a change in his life. I think because of

327
00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,120
Speaker 1: his father's passing, he wanted to move.

328
00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:00,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he definitely did. He moved to Paris and

329
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,480
Speaker 2: he moved. I don't know if he moved in with THEO,

330
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:07,600
Speaker 2: but that would be my great guess. Either way. THEO

331
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:09,800
Speaker 2: was living and working there, and he moved to be

332
00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:13,560
Speaker 2: close to THEO, and THEO introduced him to those artists

333
00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:17,080
Speaker 2: he was wrapping in his circle, like you said, Monet

334
00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:21,800
Speaker 2: and Psro, and to loose the Trek like they were,

335
00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:23,800
Speaker 2: Like Van Goh was hanging out with all of these

336
00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:26,240
Speaker 2: guys and like learning from them, but at the same

337
00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:30,679
Speaker 2: time he was also impressing them too, And when he

338
00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:36,119
Speaker 2: moved to Paris, something changed and he dropped those really

339
00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:40,720
Speaker 2: gloomy colors in favor for like an increasingly bright, colorful

340
00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:45,280
Speaker 2: palette that like Paris, somehow triggered that in him.

341
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:50,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, you can never or it's easy, I guess,

342
00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:53,639
Speaker 1: rather than to go back after someone has passed and

343
00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,080
Speaker 1: sort of judged their work compared to where they were

344
00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:58,320
Speaker 1: in their life and think, like you can kind of

345
00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:03,479
Speaker 1: figure out things. But I guess my armchair psychology degree

346
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,399
Speaker 1: would point me in the direction of like almost being

347
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:08,640
Speaker 1: freed up a little bit by his father's passing as well.

348
00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:11,760
Speaker 1: I know it upset him, but I think it also

349
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,080
Speaker 1: freed him up. So maybe that in the move to Paris,

350
00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:16,560
Speaker 1: even though we'll see he wasn't very much a city guy,

351
00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:19,320
Speaker 1: I don't think it was it was a coincidence that

352
00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:21,680
Speaker 1: all of a sudden things kind of brightened in his

353
00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:23,880
Speaker 1: life a little bit, or it could have just been

354
00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:28,320
Speaker 1: the ups and downs of his fragile, you know, mental state.

355
00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:30,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it could be either, but that's a I think

356
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:34,399
Speaker 2: you dug up an equally compelling idea. Where did you

357
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:36,760
Speaker 2: get your armchair psychology degree?

358
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:38,560
Speaker 1: Just right here on my armchair?

359
00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,240
Speaker 2: Oh okay, well you're a credit to your armchair.

360
00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:42,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, the right arm.

361
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:46,439
Speaker 2: Is it a lazy boy? Is it Ethan Allen?

362
00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:48,000
Speaker 1: Oh? You know it's a lazy boy buddy?

363
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:52,520
Speaker 2: Okay. So yeah, one of the first paintings that people

364
00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:54,600
Speaker 2: are like, Look, he came out of this gloom and

365
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,560
Speaker 2: doom stuff and now he likes color. The Hill of

366
00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:01,719
Speaker 2: mam mart with stone quarry, Uh is not part of

367
00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,600
Speaker 2: the title. That was just me. But that was painted

368
00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:08,320
Speaker 2: in eighteen eighty six. And here's the thing that you

369
00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:13,080
Speaker 2: should know about Van go He was he started painting

370
00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:17,200
Speaker 2: in twenty age twenty seven. He died at thirty seven.

371
00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:21,400
Speaker 2: In between that time he painted almost nine hundred paintings,

372
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,239
Speaker 2: many many, many of them masterpieces. So in a ten

373
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:30,600
Speaker 2: year period, everything you know about Van Goh happened. And

374
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,760
Speaker 2: really you can kind of narrow it down to essentially

375
00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,199
Speaker 2: the last three years of his life that were the

376
00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:38,800
Speaker 2: most productive, where he really came into his own.

377
00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:42,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, that website you sent kind of broke down his

378
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:47,119
Speaker 1: productivity by location, and his five years in the Netherlands

379
00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,840
Speaker 1: he painted about four paintings a month, so two hundred

380
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,240
Speaker 1: and forty five. A couple of years in Paris painted

381
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,800
Speaker 1: two hundred and twenty seven, so ten paintings per month.

382
00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,919
Speaker 1: His fourteen months, as we'll see in What would That be? Arless?

383
00:19:58,960 --> 00:19:59,760
Speaker 1: Is that how you pronounce that?

384
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:00,400
Speaker 2: Arl?

385
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:01,840
Speaker 1: Arl? Okay?

386
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,280
Speaker 2: It just sounds like you're choking on a hard boiled egg.

387
00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:09,600
Speaker 1: About fourteen paintings a month over fourteen months, and then

388
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:14,480
Speaker 1: salt rem is that right? Eighteen per month? And then finally, man,

389
00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:16,960
Speaker 1: he was up to a painting per day by the

390
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,639
Speaker 1: time he ended up in that last place in France.

391
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:23,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, like just a stunning number of painting and complete

392
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,680
Speaker 2: oil paintings. Not like he half started wine or something

393
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,760
Speaker 2: like that. These were completed paintings like that usually takes

394
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,280
Speaker 2: a day and a half, not a day, right.

395
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. I can't paint anything. I can paint a wall.

396
00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:39,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I could probably paint a wall in a day.

397
00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:42,680
Speaker 1: Yeah you do. You don't have artistic talent like that either,

398
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:43,560
Speaker 1: do you No?

399
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,480
Speaker 2: And it's always bothered me. I wanted to draw for

400
00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:49,040
Speaker 2: so long and I just can't do it.

401
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't, but we can both write, so sure, yeah,

402
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:53,880
Speaker 1: and we could both sing.

403
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,679
Speaker 2: Right, we just need an extra one thousand words for

404
00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,919
Speaker 2: each picture. We can't both sing. Wait a minute, now,

405
00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,880
Speaker 2: hold on it in a compliment. I can't sing. I'm

406
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:04,680
Speaker 2: not taking that one.

407
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:07,679
Speaker 1: All right. Well, we'll get you someone singing lessons and

408
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:08,679
Speaker 1: we'll be back right after this.

409
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:23,520
Speaker 3: Okay.

410
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,960
Speaker 2: So despite moving to Paris, Chuck, we're back by the way,

411
00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:35,120
Speaker 2: he was still very much drawn to rural areas. That's

412
00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:37,160
Speaker 2: where he found his most inspiration. He liked the light

413
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,119
Speaker 2: and the color out there. Although he did paint a

414
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,600
Speaker 2: lot of city stuff, like a cafe terrace at night.

415
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:45,879
Speaker 2: That's one of my favorites. There was, There were plenty

416
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:50,920
Speaker 2: of city paintings, but far and away. He did like landscapes,

417
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,040
Speaker 2: some seascapes, that kind of stuff, and that there was

418
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 2: no different in when he was in Paris. So he

419
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,320
Speaker 2: really started to kind of pick up painting the land

420
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,360
Speaker 2: around that time too. And then he was also inspired

421
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:06,479
Speaker 2: by Japanese art during this time.

422
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:11,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, those woodblock prints, which I didn't even

423
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,439
Speaker 1: know what woodblock was until probably ten years ago. And

424
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:17,159
Speaker 1: I just love the stuff. It's really pretty incredible, especially

425
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:21,480
Speaker 1: the process. But he was inspired not to do woodblock,

426
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,919
Speaker 1: but to kind of recreate that just using you know,

427
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 1: paint very you know, contrasting colors and bold outlines. And

428
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,719
Speaker 1: he started and I don't know how common this is,

429
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:34,720
Speaker 1: and you know, I know people are inspired, but he

430
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,399
Speaker 1: kind of straight up copied some other people at times

431
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:41,280
Speaker 1: in his career. And I don't think like suffered in

432
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 1: posthumously for that unless I'm wrong. No, okay, that was

433
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,480
Speaker 1: the case. Here he recreated a Japanese wood block sudden

434
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:54,080
Speaker 1: shower over shin Ohashi Bridge and Atake in eighteen eighty seven,

435
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:57,120
Speaker 1: but again using brushstrokes.

436
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, and I mean both of them are pretty impressive.

437
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 2: But yeah, the idea that the original by Utagawa Hiroshige

438
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:09,399
Speaker 2: is like carved out of wood, inked and then stamped.

439
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,440
Speaker 1: Is just how you know, Yeah, it's incredible.

440
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,720
Speaker 2: So also in Paris, we talked about how he suffered

441
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 2: his first real depressive episode in his early twenties. Paris

442
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 2: was the point where his full blown recurring mental illness

443
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:29,880
Speaker 2: really started to take hold. It seems like the more

444
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,879
Speaker 2: he pushed himself, the more exhausted he got, the more

445
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 2: his mental illness was triggered and he could push himself.

446
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 2: That guy. I mean, like you said, he was painting

447
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,439
Speaker 2: a painting a day, day after day after day for

448
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 2: a while. So yeah, yeah, he was very capable of

449
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,920
Speaker 2: working until he was exhausted. So he really started doing

450
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 2: that around this time, eighteen eighty seven eighty eight, that

451
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 2: kind of thing. And I guess he lived in Paris

452
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 2: for two years and moved to Arle, which I know

453
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 2: is not exactly how you say it, but it's in Provence.

454
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 2: And I mean, dude, if you want to be like

455
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 2: inspired by nature, just move to Provence.

456
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 1: Never been there.

457
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 2: I haven't either, but just from pictures I've seen on

458
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 2: the TV, yeah, I'm telling you it's inspiring.

459
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 1: Yeah. He wanted a more chill life for sure. So

460
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 1: in eighteen eighty eight, that's when he split. He was

461
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 1: painting a little more intensely at this point, and the

462
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:35,119
Speaker 1: colors got even more bold and his brushwork, like I

463
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 1: think that's one of the things he was got inspired

464
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:39,679
Speaker 1: by from the Impressionists, was really kind of showing the

465
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: brushwork and all of a sudden you're getting those farm

466
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 1: fields and the wheat, a lot of wheat orchard stuff

467
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 1: like that. And then eventually he would paint a lot

468
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:52,920
Speaker 1: of the Yellow House is what he called it, where

469
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 1: he lived. He lived there and he would end up

470
00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:00,680
Speaker 1: renting out rooms as we'll see, to different painters, and

471
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 1: that's where the sunflowers started too. Very famous for his

472
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 1: sunflower paintings.

473
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's one that I saw was called the still

474
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,919
Speaker 2: life version of the Mona Lisa. That's how good it is.

475
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 2: Another thing I didn't realize. I've seen much of his work,

476
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 2: but from researching this, I kept zooming into paintings that

477
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 2: we were talking about, and he was really good. Like

478
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,239
Speaker 2: when you zoom in and look at the brushwork and

479
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,919
Speaker 2: see what he's doing with it, it's a whole different painting.

480
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,439
Speaker 2: I mean, it's Impressionism for you, but it looks so

481
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 2: much more childish. And I know his work was described

482
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 2: like that during his lifetime, from like zoomed out, like

483
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 2: normally how you would look at a painting, but when

484
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 2: you go into it, it's like such genius that it

485
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 2: almost seems like it would be difficult to make it

486
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 2: look childish. It's that good, you know what I mean?

487
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, I when I go to museums, I you know,

488
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 1: I make sure i'm not obnoxious about it and like

489
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 1: black people and stuff. But when I get a chance,

490
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 1: I will, I will get in there as close as

491
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 1: you know, allowable to really kind of look at what's

492
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 1: going on on a close level, and not for any

493
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: kind of obviously study for myself because they don't paint.

494
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 1: But there's something about it that makes it a little

495
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 1: more uh real, Like you can actually see like what

496
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,360
Speaker 1: somebody was doing rather than you know, just looking at

497
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 1: the hole from afar.

498
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, it definitely connects you more to the painter, for sure,

499
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 2: because it sinks in like somebody was standing in front

500
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 2: of this canvas like one hundred and fifty years ago

501
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 2: putting their brush to it, like that happened at one point,

502
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 2: you know.

503
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, I love that stuff.

504
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 2: Do you get really close and put your finger right

505
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 2: over and go, I'm not touching it, I'm not touching

506
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 2: it to the security guard.

507
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, sometimes if they're not looking at like to

508
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 1: chip a little piece of the paint off and just

509
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: take it as a soon here, do.

510
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 2: You like stick it inside your cheek to smuggle it out?

511
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 1: Yeah?

512
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, Sunflowers, that was the one that I

513
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:57,640
Speaker 2: first really looked at and was like Oh my god,

514
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 2: this is way better than I thought it was. Yeah,

515
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 2: he started. He's also obviously very well known for starry nights,

516
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 2: and his first one was Starry Night over the Rhone

517
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 2: River in eighteen eighty eight, and his starry Nights would

518
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 2: be kind of like a gift and a curse, like

519
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 2: they became his most beloved works essentially, But he kind

520
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 2: of beat himself up about him because he's like, this

521
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 2: isn't quite right. But I almost get the impression that

522
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 2: to him, they were right, but he just he was

523
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,679
Speaker 2: kind of adjusting his interpretation of them based on the

524
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,959
Speaker 2: feedback he was getting from everybody else, Like he was

525
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 2: subsuming his feelings about it to everybody else's dislike of it, Like, yeah,

526
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,159
Speaker 2: you're right, it's not very good kind of thing. It

527
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 2: seemed to be specific to those starry knights.

528
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, And just how tough was that, as someone who

529
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: obviously was extremely talented and producing what would be some

530
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 1: of the most beloved works of art after his death,

531
00:27:55,960 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: to constantly be getting that feedback from art credit and

532
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 1: although he wasn't even on the radar really art critics,

533
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 1: but people who he would show to. And then his

534
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: own brother who was such a supporter, but had to

535
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 1: constantly break the news of like nobody wants to buy this.

536
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 2: Stuff, right, And Vincent was like, but do you have

537
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 2: to tell me, like verbatim, how much they said they

538
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 2: hated it every time? Can you just tell me you

539
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 2: didn't sell any of this week?

540
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: This guy said it looked like snot on canvas. I

541
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 1: don't know what to tell you, right.

542
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 3: Yeah.

543
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,639
Speaker 2: And also again if you take into account Chuck that

544
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 2: he's not just like trying to do a still life

545
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 2: photo realistically and not quite getting it. So it's like

546
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 2: your expertise isn't that good. He's like putting himself on

547
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 2: the canvas and people are rejecting it. So they're rejecting

548
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 2: him as a human being as far as he's concerned.

549
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. So he's in the Yellow House that

550
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: said he would rent it out to other artists. One

551
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 1: of those, thanks to THEO, ended up being Go Gone

552
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: because THEO was like, hey, listen, can I pay your

553
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: expenses and you go move in with my brother because

554
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 1: I really think it will. I think the quote was

555
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 1: it'll make a big change in your life. And he,

556
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 1: you know, he was hoping that one would inspire the

557
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: other because obviously he was wrapping them both, but he

558
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: wanted good things for Vincent and that that sort of worked,

559
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 1: and it didn't like they were both very productive. They

560
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: painted each other's portraits very famously, but they also fought

561
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: a lot. It was just a very volatile relationship to

562
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 1: the point where on Christmas Eve eighteen eighty eight, go

563
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 1: Gon was already planning on leaving. This wasn't the impetus

564
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 1: for him to leave, but Van Go threw a glass

565
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: of absinthe in his face, which I imagine, I mean, no

566
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: liquor in your face is great. Imagine absence is probably

567
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 1: one of the worst ones to get thrown in your face. Shirt. Yeah,

568
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 1: it probably stings, I would imagine. I don't know.

569
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 2: So Gogan was like, I'm out of here, and he left,

570
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 2: and Van Goh was like, hey, you can't leave. I'm leaving,

571
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 2: and he threatened him with a razor. Apparently, as far

572
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 2: as the standard story goes, Gogan kept going and Van

573
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 2: Go returned to the house, used the razor to cut

574
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 2: his ear off, wrapped it up, and took it to

575
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 2: a sex worker at a local brothel, and was rejected

576
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 2: by her. From this gift was rejected by her that is,

577
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 2: there's some problems with that, but it's probably the correct story.

578
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 2: But there's another school thought that Gogan actually cut it

579
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 2: off and van Go covered for him, because Gogan was

580
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 2: apparently a master sword fighter, carried a sword around with him,

581
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 2: and it's quite possible he took Vincent's ear off for

582
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 2: being threatened with a razor right.

583
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: Also another version of the story, they believe they found

584
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: that the woman was actually a maid at the brothel

585
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 1: and not a sex worker. But those are sort of

586
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: nitpicky details. I think certainly cutting off your own ear

587
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 1: wouldn't beat nitpicky, because that's a you know, a true

588
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 1: sign of a desperate sort of sort of upset that

589
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 1: you can only feel if you're suffering from severe mental illness.

590
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, self mutilation is super sad. And I

591
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: think there's also like some interpretations that it might have

592
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: been influenced by the bullfighting ritual where you cut off

593
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 1: the bulls here to present it to a lady, But

594
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm not so sure about that.

595
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, that seems like something he would have done on

596
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 2: like a calm day. Then if that was the purpose

597
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 2: of it, to present it to a lady. That almost

598
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 2: seems like it was just some impulsive thing that was

599
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 2: tacked on to the end of something that he wasn't planning.

600
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, for sure. But the cops found him

601
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: the next day. I think he was unconscious. They obviously

602
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 1: went to the hospital and he was in a state

603
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 1: of psychosis for a few days in the hospital, and

604
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: a doctor there said, you think you have epilepsy. So

605
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: and I don't think we mentioned you know, he's suffering

606
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 1: from from bouts of mental illness off and on throughout

607
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: his life to this point, but also physical manifestations are

608
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: happening that in retrospect people are like, yeah, it wasn't

609
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: just mental illness coming out physically, Like, it seems like

610
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: he probably really did have epilepsy. So they gave him

611
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 1: potassium bromide, which he said, Vincent said, curled or stopped

612
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: his intolerable hallucinations, but he was still fainting a lot.

613
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: And he apparently didn't have any memory of what happened

614
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 1: with Gogon or the ear.

615
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he was in that hospital for a little while.

616
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 2: This wasn't a psychiatric hospital, this is like a hospital hospital.

617
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 2: I also saw a check in that documentary that as

618
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 2: a gift to the doctor who cared for him, he

619
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 2: presented him with a painting of one of the wards

620
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 2: in the hospital. When doctor was like, no, thanks, it's

621
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 2: not very good.

622
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: So didn't even accept it.

623
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 2: Did not even accept it. Oh boy, So he was

624
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 2: released from the hospital. He pretended he was scratching its temple,

625
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 2: but it was with his middle finger as he was

626
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 2: saying bye to the doctor. Yeah, and he started painting again.

627
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 2: But the hospital visit helped his epilepsy, it did not

628
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 2: help the bouts of mental illness that he just kept

629
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 2: suffering over and over and over again. In between he

630
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 2: would just work at like a breakneck pace and then

631
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 2: exhaust himself, have another episode of mental illness and go

632
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 2: to the hospital, get out work until he exhausted himself

633
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 2: again and again, and so finally that the hospital was like, look, man,

634
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 2: you're in the wrong place now, like you need a

635
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 2: different kind of care than we could offer. And so

636
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 2: he checked himself into a sanitarium at Saint Remi and

637
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 2: he was there for a year being treated and that

638
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 2: actually helped him quite a bit being there.

639
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: I think that's a good place for a break. Because

640
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: something very interesting happened while he was there. Is that

641
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 1: a good time?

642
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 2: I think?

643
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: So? All right, we'll be right back everybody. All right, everyone,

644
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 1: we're back in. I said, something very interesting happened while

645
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 1: he was in the sanitarium. And one thing I mentioned

646
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 1: earlier was he painted about eighteen paintings per month. He

647
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 1: produced one hundred and forty three paintings while he was

648
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 1: staying in this sanitarium, and one of which was not

649
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,919
Speaker 1: a starry Night, but the Starry Night or just storry night.

650
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 2: Sure pretty impressive, huh.

651
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

652
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 2: He said that he wrote in a letter I guess

653
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 2: that to his sister Wilhelmina, about him wanting to make

654
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 2: a starry night, and then in the the next breath,

655
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 2: he recommends she read Walt Whitman's poetry. And people went

656
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 2: and read song to myself and said, there's like two

657
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 2: stanzas in here that basically describe what starry Night looks like.

658
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 2: We think that Walt women essentially inspired this painting, and

659
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 2: that seems to be the consensus.

660
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:22,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, And if you've never seen Starry Night, you should.

661
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 1: All you have to do is go to the Museum

662
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: of Modern Art in New York City and walk around

663
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 1: until you see crowds of people.

664
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, they said it's their most visited painting in their

665
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 2: whole collection.

666
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's uh, that one's you can't get close anyway,

667
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 1: but it's tough to even to get a great view period.

668
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: It's just there's a lot, a lot of folks around

669
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:40,439
Speaker 1: that one.

670
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 2: Wow. Wow, Yeah, I would love to see that one.

671
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 2: I don't believe I ever have them.

672
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:46,879
Speaker 3: Have you not seen that one?

673
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 2: I don't believe. So I've been to MoMA, But that

674
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 2: seems like weird that I wouldn't have seen it. But

675
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 2: then again, why didn't I form a memory of seeing it?

676
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 1: Well, you also don't like crowds of people, so maybe

677
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: you were like, I don't know what's going on over there,

678
00:35:58,080 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 1: but no, thanks.

679
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 2: Well that is possible. But yeah, so I have seen

680
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 2: it on the internet at very least, if not in person.

681
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:09,720
Speaker 2: And it's got swirls in it that represent the wind,

682
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 2: like the stars are huge and out of proportion and glowing.

683
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 2: The moon is all odd and it's like a landscape

684
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 2: at night. But he just captured all of it so perfectly,

685
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 2: and it's all a very it's the backgrounds very dark,

686
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 2: dark blues and stuff like that, but it's a very

687
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 2: soothing like happy painting. And this was what I was

688
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 2: talking about earlier that even THEO is like this, I

689
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 2: don't like this man, and I guess Vincent wrote that

690
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 2: he was once again allowing myself to do stars too big.

691
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, he said, the search for style takes away the

692
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 1: real sentiment of things, which sounds a little bit like

693
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: a not form over fashion fashion over form or something

694
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 1: I don't know, like like just trying to make something

695
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 1: super stylistic, but it doesn't really mean anything, which I'm

696
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 1: sure cut pretty deeply. So while this is going on,

697
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 1: he you know, is continuing to kind of slip up

698
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 1: and down on his as far as his mental illness

699
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,800
Speaker 1: is concerned. At some point he started to like eat paint.

700
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 1: Some people thought it might have been a suicidal thing,

701
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 1: but it might have also been pika as part of

702
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 1: his mental illness, which is interesting.

703
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 2: There's a legend that it was yellow paint that he

704
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,720
Speaker 2: wanted to be happy inside, which doesn't I don't think.

705
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 1: Hold up, Yeah, Okay, Well, he because partially because of

706
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 1: that he stayed away from paint altogether for a little while,

707
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 1: because he also had a lot of like many many

708
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 1: drawings throughout his career and this is his drawing period.

709
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like, way more drawings than paintings.

710
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 1: Right, Oh, I think so. Yeah.

711
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 2: So THEO and he got married I think in eighteen

712
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 2: eighty nine.

713
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 1: Maybe that sounds right to a woman named.

714
00:37:55,600 --> 00:38:00,399
Speaker 2: Joe Bonger or Boninger, who would eventually play a really

715
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 2: pivotal role in Vincent van Go's posthumous life. And they

716
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 2: honored him by naming their son, their only child, Vincent,

717
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,839
Speaker 2: after the kid's uncle. And van Go was very, very

718
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 2: touched by this, and he painted one of my I

719
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 2: think one of the most beautiful paintings he ever did,

720
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 2: Almond Blossom.

721
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 1: I agree, buddy, it's great.

722
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, just go look it up. It's very much in

723
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 2: like the Japanese style for sure. Yeah. And he painted

724
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,800
Speaker 2: it for the baby, and like, despite you know, years

725
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 2: and decades of van Go paintings being sold by the family,

726
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 2: that one did not go up for sale, and it's

727
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 2: even in the van Go Museum still today.

728
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. The baby didn't want it either though.

729
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 2: He said, this is not very good.

730
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 1: Give up, spit up on it. I always hated bit term.

731
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 2: It's a pretty bad term.

732
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,959
Speaker 1: Yeah. So THEO officially said, you know what, I'm gonna,

733
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 1: I'm gonna start really submitting your paintings, like I think

734
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 1: you are good and nobody knows it. So he started

735
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 1: really submitting at a more sort of serious rapid pace

736
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:10,839
Speaker 1: in eighteen eighty eight, specifically at the annual Cilon de Independent.

737
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 1: In eighteen ninety, and this is just a few months

738
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: before Van Gowit would die. He was still not getting

739
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 1: any almost any attention, but finally in January that year

740
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 1: he started to get a little bit of not critical

741
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 1: like praise, but just people like critics looking at his

742
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 1: stuff and writing about his stuff. The first one, I

743
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 1: think was an art critic name Albert Aurier who published

744
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 1: I think the very first man Go Review, and he

745
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 1: said they initially appear strange, intense and feverish, but reflected

746
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,839
Speaker 1: the continual search for the most essential sign of each thing.

747
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 1: So he was kind of getting it.

748
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, he was digging him. Yes. And then

749
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 2: in eighteen so I think eighteen eighty eight, eighteen eighty nine,

750
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 2: and eighteen ninety his work thanks to Theo, appeared in

751
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 2: the Salon in Paris. He was also featured in a

752
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 2: Belgian salon called le vent the twenty and this is

753
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 2: where he sold his first, his or his one and

754
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 2: only painting to somebody he didn't really.

755
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: Know, right, Yeah, it was a painter, another painter named

756
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 1: Anna Bach, and she bought the Red Vineyard, and that

757
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 1: I think maybe, well, I don't know if that was

758
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 1: the impetus, but that's when things started to pick up

759
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 1: a little bit. I think later that spring, the salon

760
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,439
Speaker 1: showed ten of his paintings, which was a big deal.

761
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 1: May of that year, May of eighteen ninety and this

762
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:45,240
Speaker 1: was after a year being in the sanitarium. He finally

763
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 1: was discharged and that's where he moved to a pretty

764
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 1: quiet place not too far from Paris, where he had

765
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 1: a good doctor on hand who was able to kind

766
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 1: of keep up with them. And that doctor was like, hey, man,

767
00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 1: you know what you need to do is paint like

768
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 1: you seem to be doing best when you're really concentrating

769
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 1: on the painting, so you should do that. And he did.

770
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, he threw himself into it again. Like you were saying,

771
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 2: that last few months or the last year, he was

772
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 2: painting about a painting a day, and I've seen it,

773
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 2: like people say, almost as if he knew like his

774
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 2: time was running out and he wanted to get as

775
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 2: much out as he could. He focused a lot on

776
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 2: wheat fields, which he said earlier was one of his

777
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 2: favorite subjects. Apparently that represented like the sewing and the

778
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,800
Speaker 2: reaping of it was like renewal and death and life

779
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 2: and birth and all that to him. And he was,

780
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 2: I guess pretty close to Paris and over and he

781
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:44,280
Speaker 2: went and traveled once to visit THEO, and he found

782
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 2: that THEO was talking about going out, striking out on

783
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,280
Speaker 2: his own, setting up his own art dealership, and Vincent

784
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:54,319
Speaker 2: was like, man, that is to himself, he thought, this

785
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:58,320
Speaker 2: is quite a risky gamble. You know what's going to

786
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 2: happen to my monthly stipend is that in jeopardy. But

787
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 2: also that will automatically make me a burden to my brother, Like,

788
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 2: even if he becomes successful, it's not going to be overnight.

789
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 2: And in that time between him taking this big risk

790
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 2: and becoming a success, I'm going to be an even

791
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,359
Speaker 2: bigger burden than I am. That was something he.

792
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:18,839
Speaker 1: Concluded, Yeah, yeah, for sure. And that was in July

793
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 1: of eighteen ninety and later that month, on July twenty seventh,

794
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 1: he shot himself in the chest and took his own life.

795
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 1: We covered that in more detail in the what was

796
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:31,320
Speaker 1: it Mysteries of the Art world?

797
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 2: Yeah seven, no, wait five Mysteries of the Art twenty

798
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:35,720
Speaker 2: twenty white.

799
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you can go get that full story there.

800
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 1: But yeah, it was I think they He didn't die immediately,

801
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 1: and THEO made it from Paris to be there with

802
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:49,800
Speaker 1: him when he died a couple of days later.

803
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 2: Which is so sweet. I mean they were so tight.

804
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:54,959
Speaker 2: They're actually buried next to one another in that town.

805
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. Tight, but also fraud. You know, there a lot

806
00:42:58,560 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 1: of arguing stuff too, but.

807
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 2: That's brother but that was mostly from Vincent's side, right.

808
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 1: Well, I mean I just you know, saw it could

809
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:10,399
Speaker 1: be a rough relationship, but again as brothers and also

810
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 1: business partners, and one had a real tough time with

811
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 1: mental illness, so none of it is unexpected.

812
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 2: So again, it's very much bandied about that Van Goh

813
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 2: was unknown and unappreciated in his time, and generally that's true.

814
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 2: But like when he was showing at the salons, other

815
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 2: painters like Monet would say to Theo, like, tell your

816
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 2: brother that his was the best work at the salon,

817
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 2: like he's great. He had a claim with people who

818
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:42,760
Speaker 2: knew what they were talking about, but generally he didn't.

819
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 2: The reason why we know of him today and the

820
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 2: reason why his genius is seen and valued is because

821
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 2: of Joe Bonger, his sister in law, who very shortly,

822
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 2: I think six months after Vincent died. THEO died. Some

823
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:00,799
Speaker 2: say of a broken heart, some say of siphus, some

824
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 2: say of both, and she inherited like all of essentially

825
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:07,880
Speaker 2: all of Vincent van Gogo's paintings.

826
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean this is kind of the h in

827
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 1: a way, sort of the hero of the story here,

828
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 1: because now with THEO gone and Vincent still having not

829
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 1: achieved great fame, you're left with Joe to do something.

830
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 1: And you know, she was like, listen, I don't have

831
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 1: a background in this. This was my husband's line. So

832
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 1: she taught herself. She devoted to herself to studying art.

833
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:38,279
Speaker 1: She devoted herself to studying the business of art, and

834
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: she really worked tirelessly to after his death, raise his profile.

835
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 1: And I get the impression that wasn't like, oh, I

836
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:48,920
Speaker 1: got all these paintings so I can get a lot

837
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 1: of money. It was like to honor someone she thought

838
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 1: was really talented.

839
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, Yeah, she wanted to make sure that he

840
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 2: was appreciated finally, even if it wasn't in his lifetime.

841
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 2: She she had a hard time going at first, like

842
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 2: she still couldn't quite convince people. I guess she was

843
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 2: just being like, look see it's good, it's good, and

844
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 2: that wasn't taking. So she went through the letters between

845
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:14,880
Speaker 2: THEO and Vincent that THEO had kept and realized, like

846
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 2: he talks van Goh talks a lot about like his

847
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 2: style is technique, his inspiration, his mental health struggles in

848
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 2: these letters and she was like, this is how you

849
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 2: interpret Vincent Vango's work. You understand his background, his biography,

850
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:32,360
Speaker 2: his struggles, and that now is just so commonplace and ubiquitous.

851
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 2: That's just part of learning about art. And this is

852
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 2: where it came from. It came from Joe Bonger trying

853
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 2: to get people to understand Vincent van Gogh.

854
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is I never knew that. It's a super

855
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 1: cool kind of cherry on this story that when you

856
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 1: go and you read about the artists and that just

857
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:51,880
Speaker 1: adds so much more to it. That came from her idea,

858
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 1: which is pretty amazing. She got up initially a critic

859
00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 1: named Jan Veth who did not love the pay. But

860
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:04,239
Speaker 1: then after the letters, that's when Yan came around and

861
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 1: was swayed and was like, he really quote seeks the

862
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 1: raw root of things. And I think, you know, once

863
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:11,400
Speaker 1: they knew this story, they were like, oh my gosh,

864
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 1: this is this tortured human that put everything into these

865
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:16,319
Speaker 1: paintings and now I'm seeing them in a different light.

866
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 1: And that was that was it. I think. Since her

867
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 1: death in nineteen twenty five, you know, his paintings have

868
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:25,760
Speaker 1: sold to the tune of about one hundred and seventeen

869
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 1: million dollars. The bang Go Museum there in Amsterdam, which

870
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 1: I have been to, it's well worth a trip, opened

871
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:36,320
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy three, gets a couple of million visitors

872
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 1: every year, and he's one of the most famous painters

873
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 1: of all time. Now.

874
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, and one of the reasons why I saw was

875
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,239
Speaker 2: because he wore his heart on his sleeve. He did

876
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 2: the same thing with his painting, and people just connect

877
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 2: with that. And I mean, just from listening to this Chuck,

878
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:53,920
Speaker 2: I imagine a lot of people were like, yeah, he

879
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 2: really was kind of a neat guy. Yeah, a tortured

880
00:46:57,560 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 2: artist too. And that's another place where this kind of

881
00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 2: came from. The idea of somebody suffering for their art

882
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 2: and their art being great because of their struggles with

883
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 2: mental illness. That also kind of came from the profile

884
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 2: of van Go being raised at the same time. And

885
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 2: over time people have been like, well, what did he

886
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 2: suffer from? Specifically? We don't really know, but there are

887
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 2: some clues here there that kind of point in a

888
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 2: couple of directions.

889
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, I think everyone agrees, like I said earlier,

890
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 1: that he was epileptic, but you know, probably bipolar disorder

891
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:39,400
Speaker 1: is what a lot of people agree on. Possibly schizophrenia.

892
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 1: You know, he talked about hallucinations and stuff like that.

893
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:46,279
Speaker 1: He also drank a lot, which definitely did not help

894
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 1: along the way. He did not in his like previous

895
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 1: family history at least as far as anyone knows, have

896
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 1: a long documented history of mental illness, but one of

897
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 1: his sisters was diagnosed with schizophrenia and was in an

898
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 1: asylum I think a few years after Vincent died. And

899
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:09,279
Speaker 1: he had a brother named Cornelius who died in South

900
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 1: Africa while serving in the army, and it is speculated

901
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 1: that he may have taken his own life as well.

902
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 2: Right, you have a ten percent chance of having schizophrenia

903
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:21,800
Speaker 2: if one of your siblings doesn't. For people in general population,

904
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 2: it's just one percent, So that definitely increased the possibility.

905
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:29,479
Speaker 2: Before we finished, Chuck, I just want to briefly mention

906
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 2: that anecdote that was in that one article I sent

907
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:36,400
Speaker 2: you about that cafe being foreclosed on with all of

908
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 2: his paintings trapped inside. Oh yeah, so he was showing

909
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:42,320
Speaker 2: like I think they said, one hundred paintings or something

910
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 2: in this cafe. It was like an exhibit of van

911
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:47,399
Speaker 2: Go like early van Go stuff when he first moved

912
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 2: to Paris, and the cafe owner like wasn't making their payments,

913
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 2: so the cafe got foreclosed on, locked up, and everything inside,

914
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 2: including Vango's paintings, which were not owned by the cafe,

915
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 2: were auctioned off, and they were so disliked that they

916
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 2: were bundled together in bunches of ten so that people

917
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:08,959
Speaker 2: who bought them could go and scrape the paintings off

918
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:11,839
Speaker 2: and sell them at a higher price than they bought

919
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 2: the ten van Goes for as blank canvases. Wow, And

920
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 2: he still was just like, well, I guess I needed

921
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:21,160
Speaker 2: to just get up and dust myself up. Yeah, he

922
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:24,120
Speaker 2: was like the Joe Dirt of the nineteenth century French

923
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 2: and Dutch art world. I never saw that same thing.

924
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 2: He was essentially a van Go. Okay, all right, okay,

925
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:35,959
Speaker 2: thanks for humoring me with that one.

926
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 1: Because that's just I love it. Good story.

927
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:39,720
Speaker 2: All right, Well, Chuck said that was a good story,

928
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:41,919
Speaker 2: So I think we should end this on a high

929
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 2: note and go straight to listener mail.

930
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:48,759
Speaker 1: This is about the seven thirty seven macs. Hey, guys,

931
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 1: love the show. Been listening for a few years. I'm

932
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 1: an embedded control software engineer, not for Boeing, but in

933
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 1: another industry where mistakes could kill people. For me, Boeing

934
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:02,840
Speaker 1: was allway an aspirational company, so watching the news on

935
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 1: mcast was like meaning a disappointing drunk hero. At the time,

936
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:09,279
Speaker 1: my peers and I were following the news and doing

937
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:11,280
Speaker 1: our best to read between the lines. We were frankly

938
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 1: disgusted to see that they actually deployed a single point

939
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:17,320
Speaker 1: of failure all the way to production. It was baffling

940
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:20,360
Speaker 1: to us because we knew our internal processes would have

941
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 1: stopped a program dead with that much risk. Surely Boeing

942
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 1: held even higher standards. It was clear that a complete

943
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:29,840
Speaker 1: cultural and ethical breakdown occurred to allow the mcast to

944
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:35,799
Speaker 1: exist without redundancy and sensor voting or rationality checks and

945
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:39,280
Speaker 1: voting as in quotes. Even worse, they allowed a helper

946
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:44,719
Speaker 1: system enough control authority to destabilize the vehicle. It's antithetical

947
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:49,319
Speaker 1: to the control's engineering title anyway. Certainly didn't expect to

948
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 1: reignite professional rage on my commute today. Guys. So that

949
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 1: was a ten out of ten episode, and that is

950
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 1: from Travis. Last name withheld nice.

951
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:01,239
Speaker 2: Travis, somebody who knows that they're talking about gave us

952
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:02,040
Speaker 2: a ten out of ten.

953
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 1: Chuck, Yeah, that always feels nice.

954
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:07,759
Speaker 2: I assume there's a would recommend after that, I hope.

955
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 2: So I'm going to assume that Travis works in the

956
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 2: law and dart industry.

957
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:14,480
Speaker 1: Right there you go.

958
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:16,799
Speaker 2: If you want to be like Travis and send us

959
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:19,680
Speaker 2: an awesome email because you're an expert and something we

960
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:21,799
Speaker 2: talked about. We love that kind of stuff. Even if

961
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:23,879
Speaker 2: you're like you guys kind of got this wrong, that's

962
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 2: all right, We want to hear from you. Send us

963
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 2: an email to Stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.

964
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

965
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:40,359
Speaker 1: more podcasts, my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,

966
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:42,320
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.