Speaker 1: This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast
Speaker 1: the most dramatic podcast ever. Is so good today because
Speaker 1: it's all about you, taking your questions, hearing your.
Speaker 2: Comments whatever they are. It gets weird, juicy and weird.
Speaker 1: It's a must listen and we're jumping right into the
Speaker 1: deep end.
Speaker 2: This one is. This person gave us a lot of
Speaker 2: context and so I'm going to read it. It's a
Speaker 2: long question, but ooh, it's a good one. It is.
Speaker 2: It was sent in anonymously, and here's the question, Lauren
Speaker 2: and Chris. I am having doubts about my relationship. My
Speaker 2: boyfriend and I have been together for years and live together.
Speaker 2: Our lives are so integrated, family, friends, home routines, and
Speaker 2: the thought of starting over is scary, being that I'm
Speaker 2: in my late twenties. I have a gut feeling though
Speaker 2: that keeps resurfacing, and I am terrified of making the
Speaker 2: wrong choice. I am not sure I'm in love anymore.
Speaker 2: Any advice, Yeah.
Speaker 1: We have a lot. First of all, it is interesting,
Speaker 1: and it's important to note they've been together for several
Speaker 1: years because if you're just starting out and is one thing,
Speaker 1: but if you are really integrated and entwined in each
Speaker 1: other's lives and family, which they are. That takes things
Speaker 1: to a different level. First and foremost, I would just say,
Speaker 1: because this brought up another situation that we have a
Speaker 1: friend in and we would give the same advice, don't
Speaker 1: be afraid to change. And I'm not saying this person
Speaker 1: should get out of this relationship. For sure, I still
Speaker 1: don't know enough, but I would just say, don't be
Speaker 1: afraid to change.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the big thing that sticks out in that
Speaker 2: question right away for both of us. We thought, quote,
Speaker 2: the thought of starting over is scary, being that I'm
Speaker 2: in my late twenties. Oh my gosh. As two elders
Speaker 2: were sitting here and saying you.
Speaker 1: Got a lot, well, I would say, no matter how
Speaker 1: old you are, I mean, you are definitely very very young,
Speaker 1: and I know you only know what you know. You
Speaker 1: can't possibly know what's to come and how experienced you'll be,
Speaker 1: and you'll look back in your thirties, You'll look back
Speaker 1: in your forties and in your fifties and be like,
Speaker 1: I can't believe I was worried about changing in my twenties.
Speaker 1: But again, but I can't. I'm not saying this to
Speaker 1: be disrespectful to you.
Speaker 2: I get it.
Speaker 1: You don't know any different, and so you feel like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm a little bit old and experienced in my late twenties.
Speaker 1: Don't be so afraid to change that you don't give
Speaker 1: yourself a chance to be happy, because you're going to
Speaker 1: look back just a few years from now. If you
Speaker 1: did make the cut and you moved on, you were
Speaker 1: going to look back in just a few short years
Speaker 1: and think, Wow, what if I hadn't changed. Thank goodness,
Speaker 1: Thank goodness, I pulled the plug. It happened so fast.
Speaker 1: You will be so grateful for that that that's what
Speaker 1: worries me about this relationship.
Speaker 2: When you're having that feeling over and over again. It's
Speaker 2: hard to listen to our gut these days. There's a
Speaker 2: lot of noise in the world. But you know, to
Speaker 2: be honest, I first of all, I applaud you on
Speaker 2: recognizing that, because I look back at my own marriage,
Speaker 2: and when I look back, there were those little feelings.
Speaker 2: I didn't see them then, I didn't feel them. But
Speaker 2: when I look back, I can actually think of specific
Speaker 2: moments that I knew it maybe wasn't going to work out,
Speaker 2: but I didn't listen to my gut enough and look,
Speaker 2: I got divorce, started over at thirty, and oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: like it's I really believe I have no regrets. I
Speaker 2: believe that if you're happy with where you are, you
Speaker 2: can't regret where you've been. And everything led me to
Speaker 2: where I am. But I'm so happy in my relationship now,
Speaker 2: and I do look back and think what if I'd
Speaker 2: stayed in that marriage. And that's a great point, babe,
Speaker 2: about never being afraid. You know, I do think change
Speaker 2: can get harder as we get older, and you should
Speaker 2: never be afraid to change. But I will tell you
Speaker 2: it's a lot easier actually to start over in your
Speaker 2: late twenties than it is later.
Speaker 1: And I got divorced and started over when I was forty. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I don't regret that at all, and nor does
Speaker 1: my ex. By the way, it was an important thing
Speaker 1: for both of us to do to be happy. And
Speaker 1: so the thought of staying in this relationship that this
Speaker 1: person's referring to, Because if you think you're unhappy now,
Speaker 1: if you think you're miserable now, if you're in a
Speaker 1: toxic relationship now, think what it's going to be in
Speaker 1: five years. And now you're not in your late twenties,
Speaker 1: now in your mid thirties, and you've been in a
Speaker 1: toxic relationship. And if you think your lives are intertwined,
Speaker 1: now add five more years, oh gosh, add kids to
Speaker 1: kids to the situation. Things only get more and more
Speaker 1: complicated if you kick the can down the road. Really,
Speaker 1: in anything in life, I'm a big believe of face
Speaker 1: the music now, whether it's raising kids, whether it's dealing
Speaker 1: with problems, those issues only get bigger if you kick
Speaker 1: it down the road. Figure out what's going on now
Speaker 1: and make that decision. And again I don't know enough
Speaker 1: about this particular one, but just we're speaking in generalities
Speaker 1: that I would be more fearful.
Speaker 2: I'm going to say it. My advice is ended. My
Speaker 2: advice is break it off. That's it. I feel like
Speaker 2: I'm trying to be gentle with what I'm saying, because,
Speaker 2: like you said, look, look, don't take my advice like
Speaker 2: I'm your therapist or something. But just from what I'm
Speaker 2: reading here, I would say, get out of it.
Speaker 1: It feels like it's over. It feels like this person
Speaker 1: already has one and a half feet out the door,
Speaker 1: but they need to pull the plug.
Speaker 2: And you're saying, you're in your late twenties. Our twenties
Speaker 2: are a time of a lot of change. Maybe you
Speaker 2: got in this relationship in your early twenties, and by
Speaker 2: your late twenties you're a pretty different person. I was
Speaker 2: so different at twenty eight than I was at twenty three.
Speaker 2: Maybe this relationship was great then, and you're a different
Speaker 2: person now. And so while while you're afraid of change,
Speaker 2: the truth is the change has already happened. You've already changed,
Speaker 2: and so you have to embrace that. And I'd also
Speaker 2: think in life, we have relationships for reasons and for seasons,
Speaker 2: and you know nobody. I don't know everybody's going to
Speaker 2: look back and and life comes in waves, right, So
Speaker 2: you might be on the other side of this wave,
Speaker 2: and I think it's time to end.
Speaker 1: Did I do a great don't worry about the family,
Speaker 1: the friends, the home, the daily routines. That stuff can
Speaker 1: and will change.
Speaker 2: And I don't know anyone, Okay, well, I can think
Speaker 2: of one person. I know one person who regrets not
Speaker 2: ending their relationship but screwing it up. I know one
Speaker 2: person who cheated on someone and wishes they'd stayed in
Speaker 2: that marriage. But other than that, one person like and
Speaker 2: that's they wish they had made that mistake.
Speaker 1: Y's true. How many how many divorced people do you
Speaker 1: know say wow, I really shouldn't have pulled the plug.
Speaker 1: We really should have stayed in that relationship five more years.
Speaker 2: I don't know anyone who who wishes they hadn't ended
Speaker 2: a relationship. I don't know anyone who looks back and
Speaker 2: says I should have stayed in that. So I think
Speaker 2: if you've got that feeling, that's all you need to know.
Speaker 1: Don't be afraid to change. Any advice this is from Jennifer.
Speaker 1: Any advice for navigating dating with young kids something that
Speaker 1: we kind of did.
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you, Jennifer. What a good question. And gosh,
Speaker 2: that's I mean, we're talking about divorce. That's something people
Speaker 2: deal with all the time. Well you more so did it.
Speaker 2: I came into your life when the kids were fifteen
Speaker 2: and seventeen. I think I think as Taylor just gotten
Speaker 2: her permit, I like, yeah, I remember being with trying
Speaker 2: to teach her how to park on a curb.
Speaker 1: Maybe she was fortunate she didn't realize you don't park
Speaker 1: on the curb. That was that was the big note.
Speaker 2: But so I'm going to go to you for that
Speaker 2: because you were the one who had you actually did date.
Speaker 1: With the I did both. I dated with my kids
Speaker 1: and I dated moms who had kids, some young, older, whatever.
Speaker 1: I kind of ran the gamut, so you know, the
Speaker 1: navigational part of it when you have kids, when they
Speaker 1: are yours. This was totally my preference early on, especially
Speaker 1: I made post divorce my life about them and making
Speaker 1: sure my relationship with myself and my kids was safe, secure, solid,
Speaker 1: rebuilding that foundation from the ground up, making sure everybody's good.
Speaker 1: Then when I started venturing out dating, yeah, I definitely
Speaker 1: did it anonymously away from my kids so they wouldn't know.
Speaker 1: But it did get to the point where as my
Speaker 1: kids got older and I was on a date, I
Speaker 1: was on a first date and I asked this woman
Speaker 1: who had kids as well, her opinion. She says, you
Speaker 1: know what I did? I asked my kids. I said,
Speaker 1: when do you guys want to know? Do you want
Speaker 1: to know? And I thought, I mean, as crazy as
Speaker 1: it is, as parents, we often don't stop and just
Speaker 1: ask the kids their opinion. You think, as the dad,
Speaker 1: single day, I need to know this. I need to
Speaker 1: make the decision for them to protect them. So I
Speaker 1: actually took my kids on a walk the next day
Speaker 1: and I said, hey, guys, you know I'm I do date,
Speaker 1: and like, of course we.
Speaker 2: Know, dad. They were more than any things they did.
Speaker 1: Of course they do. And at this point, you know,
Speaker 1: it's probably maybe the end of elementary school, maybe the
Speaker 1: beginning of middle school. And I said, well, so when
Speaker 1: or if would you ever want to meet anybody I'm dating?
Speaker 1: And they actually had a great explanation. They said a
Speaker 1: great answer, said, we do want to meet the person
Speaker 1: you're dating, not too early. We don't want to meet
Speaker 1: all of them, but we also don't want the situation
Speaker 1: where you walk in the door and you say, hey, guys,
Speaker 1: this is Lauren Zema. I love her, We're getting married,
Speaker 1: and they have no say. They feel like they have
Speaker 1: no say in this. They feel like only the only
Speaker 1: thing they can do is accept this. This has been
Speaker 1: forced down their throat now. And that was really interesting
Speaker 1: to me. So it wasn't don't go fall in love
Speaker 1: and then bring her home. It was if this person
Speaker 1: serious enough that you care to see her three, four, five,
Speaker 1: ten times? Okay, you know it's okay for us to
Speaker 1: meet her, say hello, get started, start that relationship, so
Speaker 1: you're not just bringing her in. And that first time
Speaker 1: you're starting their relationship is when yours has already gotten
Speaker 1: to that very serious stage. And that was great advice.
Speaker 2: Did you adjust?
Speaker 1: And that is I only had one date with that woman,
Speaker 1: by the way, but still say very sage advice.
Speaker 2: By the way, everything for a reason. You went on
Speaker 2: a date with her, for a reason you.
Speaker 1: Got that very interesting date. By the way. Two things
Speaker 1: were very interesting. She was she had been married, she
Speaker 1: was divorced, had kids, had been married to a very
Speaker 1: very famous athlete, world famous, one of the most famous
Speaker 1: athletes in the world.
Speaker 2: So hey, I don't really know my athletes, but now
Speaker 2: I'm going to be the other one to ask you
Speaker 2: who this is after week.
Speaker 1: The other interesting thing that happened, this is horrifying, but
Speaker 1: a very funny anecdote. We're up in Santa Barbara. This
Speaker 1: this woman lived up in Santa Barbara, and so we
Speaker 1: up there. It's easier and it was easier for me
Speaker 1: to be incognito and anonymous getting out of La So
Speaker 1: it was only like a forty five minute drive up there.
Speaker 1: I go up to Santa Barbara and we're having dinner,
Speaker 1: and again I was with ABC at the time. There
Speaker 1: was another big show on ABC at the time. So
Speaker 1: I look across the room and there's Rob Low. Rob
Speaker 1: Low lives in Santa Barbara. I had gotten to know him.
Speaker 1: We're not buddies, but I got to know him enough
Speaker 1: that you know, we'd give each other up the hand,
Speaker 1: the hand bro hug thing. So worst thing in the
Speaker 1: world happens on a first date. Rob Low gets up
Speaker 1: after we just give each other the head nod. Hey man,
Speaker 1: hey man, he gets up and walks across the room
Speaker 1: to be nice, and walks up to my table. On
Speaker 1: a first date, Rob Low puts his face next to mine.
Speaker 1: Rob Low. If I was going to date a man,
Speaker 1: one hundred percent would be Rob Low. You have always
Speaker 1: stunningly gorgeous in person, it's even more electric and petrifying.
Speaker 1: It's like this gravitational poll. I'm just staring into his
Speaker 1: deep blue eyes, and I'm thinking, what is this woman
Speaker 1: across the table thinking right now she's looking at me
Speaker 1: and looking at Rob Low.
Speaker 2: This is so funny because I remember I did a
Speaker 2: sit down interview with Rob Low once and I told
Speaker 2: you that morning, Like I'd interviewed different people every day,
Speaker 2: so I didn't always It's not like you always knew
Speaker 2: who I was interviewing. In that morning, I said, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm going to do this sit down with Rob Low,
Speaker 2: and I remember thinking your reaction was kind of funny.
Speaker 2: You were like, oh really, hello, damn you Rob Low?
Speaker 2: He did it again?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was that was there was. I will always
Speaker 1: remember how it was like it was in slow motion.
Speaker 1: It was like, how do I give the signal of
Speaker 1: don't come over here and say hello?
Speaker 2: You know what I'm not. This is no shade to
Speaker 2: Rob Low, because, by the way, when I interviewed him,
Speaker 2: so kind, don't funny, so witty. He's not my type. Wow,
Speaker 2: he's a little like, uh, cheek boned and pretty For me,
Speaker 2: I like a little more grizzly.
Speaker 1: Are you okay? Are you a Patrick Dempsey? No?
Speaker 2: Also too pretty? Okay? I'm a Harrison Ford. Oh okay,
Speaker 2: I'm an Indiana Jones.
Speaker 1: Old grizzled veteran.
Speaker 2: That's why I like when you have stubble. One of
Speaker 2: these days, it's one of my I want us to be.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna make you be harrisy Indiana Jones for Halloween.
Speaker 1: Okay, so now I know, now I know who to
Speaker 1: worry about.
Speaker 2: Well. I have interviewed Harrison Ford as well, Yes, and
Speaker 2: he was just as grizzled as I wanted.
Speaker 1: Richard here and Brad Pitt.
Speaker 2: I mean, everybody thinks Brad Pitt's hot, but I've never
Speaker 2: been into I've never been into blondes either, and I
Speaker 2: would consider him a.
Speaker 1: Blade where this is the this is my question on
Speaker 1: Brad Pitt. Where is your favorite Brad Pitt? Is it
Speaker 1: young Thelman, Louise Brad Pitt? Is it river runs through it?
Speaker 1: Is it the older you know, mister and missus Smith?
Speaker 1: And you know now that he's aged at every age.
Speaker 1: I don't get all the Oceans movie. I can't choose
Speaker 1: ridiculously handsome.
Speaker 2: I got to go back to the kids thing real quick,
Speaker 2: because I did want to ask you one question which
Speaker 2: I think might be helpful for people. Because you were divorced,
Speaker 2: you know, single for about ten years. How did you
Speaker 2: change dating with with whether the kids would meet someone
Speaker 2: like based on their ages? Because that person who asked
Speaker 2: the question did say young kids versus you know, teenagers.
Speaker 2: What change did you make it? Fact?
Speaker 1: Well, the difficult thing that people don't often discuss is
Speaker 1: with kids, there is an X out there. If you're lucky,
Speaker 1: maybe the X isn't a part of the life anymore,
Speaker 1: the dad or whatever, or at least if you're very lucky,
Speaker 1: it's healthy. But oftentimes if there has been divorced, sometimes
Speaker 1: it's ugly. And that's a difficult thing because you know,
Speaker 1: there is resentfulness one way or the other, and the
Speaker 1: kids might be upset that moms moving on, and so
Speaker 1: there are a lot of layers and that is difficult
Speaker 1: and it's something case by case you have to navigate
Speaker 1: that because I did enter into some situations where it
Speaker 1: had been a really toxic situation. The dad in all
Speaker 1: of this was not a good person. The mom was
Speaker 1: trying to start their life, but it was really difficult
Speaker 1: and she's you know, so there are some really tough
Speaker 1: cases when when kids are involved, that means someone else,
Speaker 1: That means there is a third party involved in this too,
Speaker 1: and that that to me, is more difficult than dealing
Speaker 1: with the kids. It's dealing with the exes.
Speaker 2: Oh well, you just that did not answer my question,
Speaker 2: but it opens up a whole new thing. So number
Speaker 2: one tip on dealing with the exes.
Speaker 1: Tread lightly, you know, try to keep your famous line,
Speaker 1: try to keep your side of the street clean, you know.
Speaker 1: And I think it's important, you know, however you do it,
Speaker 1: you don't have to say it, but not feeling like, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm going to be your new dad.
Speaker 2: Actually, this is a question we had. Paige said, any
Speaker 2: step parent tips from l Z and exactly what you're saying.
Speaker 2: I mean, you and I have talked about this. I
Speaker 2: don't I don't think you can. Gosh. I struggle with
Speaker 2: the words stepmom, stepdad, stepparent because on the one hand,
Speaker 2: they have such a negative connotation with them from Damn
Speaker 2: Disney movies where every step mom is the villain and
Speaker 2: in some cases trying to kill the kid. I mean,
Speaker 2: And then you know, you have to you have because
Speaker 2: it just becomes an awkward conversation. People like people ask me,
Speaker 2: do you have kids, and I'm like, well, we have kids,
Speaker 2: are like, well, we have Chris's kids. But then on
Speaker 2: the other hand, I love your kids. I love them,
Speaker 2: I would die for them. I love them, and I
Speaker 2: would never want you to be with somebody who didn't
Speaker 2: love your kids, or anybody too. But then at the
Speaker 2: same time, like I always approached it, and I do
Speaker 2: think this was beneficial for us and for everybody. I
Speaker 2: am not their mom. I don't want to be their mom.
Speaker 2: I actually the kids will say this is my stepmom.
Speaker 2: I think just because it's an easy way to introduce me.
Speaker 2: But I I've just always wanted to be somebody in
Speaker 2: their life who loves them, is a mentor to them,
Speaker 2: will give them advice, will support them. But you know,
Speaker 2: I've never tried to be that. I've never especially in
Speaker 2: the beginning, and there's such good kids that I've never
Speaker 2: like had to discipline them. But in the beginning, I
Speaker 2: never was if there was ever anything, I was always like,
Speaker 2: that's on you. You're the dad. You handle that, you
Speaker 2: you know, address that situation. And so I didn't try
Speaker 2: to be their parent, and I think that helped in
Speaker 2: the beginning for sure.
Speaker 1: Don't worry about the label. Worry about who you want
Speaker 1: to be in their life and againship. I know it
Speaker 1: can be difficult if a kid is you know, again
Speaker 1: you get to the disciplinary stuff. It's like I've I've
Speaker 1: seen this and I've dealt with this, where if a
Speaker 1: kid is unbelievably disrespectful to you. If one of my
Speaker 1: kids was very disrespectful to you, well that says a
Speaker 1: lot about me. How am I going to stand up
Speaker 1: for you?
Speaker 2: I think that's on you to handle it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so if I don't, that's a big red
Speaker 1: flag for you of like, Okay, he's never going to
Speaker 1: choose me. And so it's that's a very delicate dance.
Speaker 1: You have to make the kids, the exes, that whole scenario.
Speaker 1: It's like, there's so many factors that got.
Speaker 2: But you know what, I think you got to come
Speaker 2: in with respect. That was the other big thing for
Speaker 2: me too. I came in with and I do have
Speaker 2: the utmost respect for I think parenting is the hardest
Speaker 2: job in the world. So I wanted to come in
Speaker 2: with respect for your ex wife, the kids, mom. I
Speaker 2: wanted to come in with respect for the fact that,
Speaker 2: you know, there was a history here before I was
Speaker 2: part of it, and there was a lot of love there.
Speaker 2: And I wanted to build a relationship and blend our families,
Speaker 2: but slowly, I mean, I would you know. I wanted
Speaker 2: your ex to know that I appreciated her and admired her.
Speaker 2: I wanted to text her on Mother's Day and say
Speaker 2: thank you for thanking an include her in things, and
Speaker 2: for us all to try to do this stuff together
Speaker 2: because the kids benefit more from that. You know, they
Speaker 2: already have had this situation where they've had to live
Speaker 2: in two homes. So I wanted to bring us all
Speaker 2: together as much as possible because they're the ones that
Speaker 2: benefit the most.
Speaker 1: And I wish everybody, I mean, LZ could teach a
Speaker 1: masterclass because how she handled everything, how she navigated those waters,
Speaker 1: which was very difficult. I don't care how good the
Speaker 1: situation is, it's difficult. You did a beautiful job of that.
Speaker 1: It made me love you even more the way you
Speaker 1: appreciated my kids, the way you treated them and integrated
Speaker 1: into our lives together, because you know it is tough. Again,
Speaker 1: going back to the original question, would I have stayed
Speaker 1: with somebody who my kids didn't like or someone didn't
Speaker 1: get along with my kids.
Speaker 2: I don't think you can.
Speaker 1: I don't think I can. No, And just knowing me,
Speaker 1: I don't think I would have chosen someone over essentially
Speaker 1: over my kids.
Speaker 2: And if you do, that's a red flag on using it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I just I know those are situations and
Speaker 1: I know there's other extremes of they're being poisoned by
Speaker 1: the X, and so I get it. There's there's a
Speaker 1: lot of toxicity to some of these situations. But in
Speaker 1: my own situation, if my kids would come to me
Speaker 1: as a dad, we just don't see it. I mean,
Speaker 1: we're not we don't love this person. I don't think
Speaker 1: I could have ended up with that person. I think
Speaker 1: they I would have had to have moved on.
Speaker 2: Well, I would say those would be my three tips
Speaker 2: on step parenting is tread lightly and slowly, get to
Speaker 2: know the kids before you try to parent them, and
Speaker 2: respect all the adults involved.
Speaker 1: Let them and let them at least feel like maybe
Speaker 1: they're taking the lead a little bit in that relationship
Speaker 1: of bringing you in and getting to know them.
Speaker 2: Well, let's hard pivot. I want to go from we've
Speaker 2: been talking marriage kids. I want to go right into
Speaker 2: some juicy drama in the beginning of a relationship. Jamie
Speaker 2: is asking how do you break the pattern of getting
Speaker 2: ghosted and how do you get a guy to commit
Speaker 2: to you? Jamie, I'm gonna be team Jamie right now. Jamie.
Speaker 2: I don't know you, but I'm team Jamie. I don't
Speaker 2: want you to have to think about how to get
Speaker 2: a guy to commit to you. If he is not
Speaker 2: committing to you, then Jamie, you don't commit to him,
Speaker 2: you walk away. You should not have to be worrying
Speaker 2: about contemplating how to get somebody to commit to you.
Speaker 2: If they're not doing it, he's not the person for you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Jamie, there's no magic dust you sprinkle on somebody
Speaker 1: to make them commit.
Speaker 2: Because here's the thing, Jamie, it's not the problem isn't
Speaker 2: you here, The problem is them. If you're ready to commit,
Speaker 2: if you're someone who wants to commit and they don't,
Speaker 2: well that's their own stuff they got to work out.
Speaker 2: And you're not gonna be able to fix that.
Speaker 1: And I get it. You're like, God, I've been on
Speaker 1: a million dates. I'm so tired of trying to, you know,
Speaker 1: going through all these guys who are just swiping right
Speaker 1: and swiping right and they have a million options and
Speaker 1: YadA YadA, and so I'm just tired of it. How
Speaker 1: do I get this guy to commit and not ghost
Speaker 1: to me? It's as Lauren just said.
Speaker 2: It's it's on you. Well, now I will say to
Speaker 2: make that well judgment, but I will say when she says,
Speaker 2: the first part of the question, how do you break
Speaker 2: the pattern of getting ghosted? I do think the apps
Speaker 2: are a problem. I think apps. We were just talking
Speaker 2: to somebody, a guy who was an app designer, and
Speaker 2: he was saying he had actually spoken to the people
Speaker 2: who created Tinder, and he said to them, your app
Speaker 2: had a fundamental ethical design flow in the beginning, which
Speaker 2: is you made people worthless, you made them swipeable. You said,
Speaker 2: this person is only worth a swipe. And that's an unethical,
Speaker 2: unconscious design of the app.
Speaker 1: So so many of these apps do that. You are
Speaker 1: discarding a human being, You're discarding a life by making
Speaker 1: them a swipe in three seconds.
Speaker 2: But Jamie, I would say to that, what I've I've
Speaker 2: said to so many of my friends is you got
Speaker 2: to get off the app with a person and if
Speaker 2: they're not willing to take your communication from the app
Speaker 2: to something else, that's such a red flag for me. Like, Okay,
Speaker 2: maybe you meet on an app, but you need to
Speaker 2: quickly graduate to phone calls, graduate to let's meet for
Speaker 2: coffee and drinks.
Speaker 1: You know the game, right, So you know the routine
Speaker 1: because you've played the game, and you've been played by
Speaker 1: that game. So, okay, you know that the typical layout
Speaker 1: is get on the app, hook up on the app,
Speaker 1: go hook up somewhere. Stay like Lauren saying, you got
Speaker 1: to change the game. You have to shake up the
Speaker 1: snow globe a little bit and make it different with
Speaker 1: this person. And if, by the way, if they don't
Speaker 1: want to change the game, that means they just want
Speaker 1: to stay in that pattern. They want to just keep
Speaker 1: hooking up and keep it very safe. So if you
Speaker 1: ask to change and they're willing to, there you go.
Speaker 1: That's one step. Already you've gotten them off the app.
Speaker 1: We're talking Okay, let's actually meet in person and take
Speaker 1: it to that level. And now it becomes much more
Speaker 1: personal and they can't just discard you by you've never
Speaker 1: taken it off, tender the direct messages or whatever.
Speaker 2: It really is good.
Speaker 1: You got to change the game if you expect that
Speaker 1: game to be changed.
Speaker 2: My last piece of advice on that, though, is I
Speaker 2: do generally advise I think in the beginning, you gotta
Speaker 2: play hard to get a little bit, and by that
Speaker 2: I mean like see if they will come to you.
Speaker 2: Because the apps are out there giving so many options
Speaker 2: and all that make sure that they will prove that
Speaker 2: they will come to you, that they will commit to you,
Speaker 2: even on the level of more of a date. I
Speaker 2: don't mind making the first move, guys. The onus is
Speaker 2: put on guys a lot to make the first move,
Speaker 2: and they're intimidated and they're scared too. But what I
Speaker 2: always say is I open the door and he's got
Speaker 2: to walk through, meaning like I don't mind saying hey, like,
Speaker 2: here's my number, but if he doesn't call, if he
Speaker 2: doesn't set up the date, if he doesn't show that effort.
Speaker 1: Yeah, even goes so far as to say, hey, I
Speaker 1: think we should go out right And if they don't
Speaker 1: pick that up, then that again, you can't. You can't
Speaker 1: make that horse drink.
Speaker 2: They should be committing to you, Jamie. You're worth it, Jamie.
Speaker 1: An issue that you and I have been seeing a
Speaker 1: lot in a few of our friends. This is from Matt.
Speaker 1: What do you do when one of you wants to
Speaker 1: move states but the other doesn't oo, And this is
Speaker 1: something you and I have talked a lot about moving
Speaker 1: jobs all that. So when you get married, when you
Speaker 1: start dating, you're in your twenties, you're in your thirties.
Speaker 1: Whatever could be later in life. Yeah, but this typically
Speaker 1: I would think happens at a younger level because of
Speaker 1: the pivotal nature of life early on you're kind of
Speaker 1: getting into that career. But you're right, it could happen
Speaker 1: at any time, and it is something I would take
Speaker 1: this a step further. It's not just moving. Are we
Speaker 1: having kids? Big huge life changing decisions that you don't
Speaker 1: see eye to eye on. What do you do well?
Speaker 2: I think the most important thing to do is that
Speaker 2: you have to have talked about those major how do
Speaker 2: I want to live my life things before you're married
Speaker 2: to someone. Where do you see you? And I talked
Speaker 2: on our first date. We talked about how you had
Speaker 2: seen yourself wanting to move to Texas one day, and
Speaker 2: I remember thinking, well, you know, if you'd said Nebraska,
Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm in no offense to Nebraska,
Speaker 2: But like I love, I'm from the Midwest. I love Dallas.
Speaker 2: I had a lot of friends in Dallas actually, and
Speaker 2: you know, we ended up falling in love with Austin,
Speaker 2: but we had that discussion on our first date that
Speaker 2: we both saw ourselves maybe leaving LA one day. I
Speaker 2: think from the beginning you got to iron out. We
Speaker 2: had this discussion on our first date, do you want
Speaker 2: to have kids? We had the discussion of you know,
Speaker 2: how long do you see yourself continuing to work? When
Speaker 2: you know, when do you like to travel? Those big things.
Speaker 2: You have got to talk about that in the beginning.
Speaker 2: It's how, it's the how you want to live your
Speaker 2: life questions. Now that doesn't say like you could be
Speaker 2: in a relationship and how somebody gets a really cool
Speaker 2: job offer and they're like, hey, I want to move
Speaker 2: for this job, but you're thinking, whoa, we didn't see
Speaker 2: ourselves moving to Nebraska for the super cool job in Nebraska.
Speaker 2: So what would you advise people? Then?
Speaker 1: Well, and I agree, you've got to have those conversations
Speaker 1: up front. When you and I started dating, I made
Speaker 1: it very clear, Hey, I have two kids. They are
Speaker 1: my life, especially right now they're at a very pivotal
Speaker 1: age and an important age that they need their dad.
Speaker 1: I'm going to be there for them there number one
Speaker 1: and I want to date, but just know this is
Speaker 1: so important. So there's going to be games and dances
Speaker 1: and things like that that I will just have to
Speaker 1: be a part of and want to be a part of.
Speaker 1: And I want to bring you into that eventually, and
Speaker 1: so just letting somebody know the score, letting them know
Speaker 1: exactly where you are. We talked about not having kids,
Speaker 1: We talked about, like you said early on, I see myself,
Speaker 1: my kids are going to graduate pretty soon. They'll probably
Speaker 1: be in Texas or somewhere around. I want to go there.
Speaker 1: So I just think those those big conversations, and it's
Speaker 1: not that things won't change, because as we know in life,
Speaker 1: it will change. But if you never started out by
Speaker 1: having that conversation about kids, jobs, all that, then it
Speaker 1: will come up and it will be explosive.
Speaker 2: You completely avoided my question. I think this is a
Speaker 2: tough question to answer if this big issue comes up
Speaker 2: later in a relationship, something you don't see coming. I
Speaker 2: think the truth is somebody's got to give. Of course, yes,
Speaker 2: somebody's got to give, you know, I mean unless you're
Speaker 2: breaking up.
Speaker 1: But well, something's going to give, yes, and so someone's
Speaker 1: got to give, or something's going.
Speaker 2: To give, right, unless it's so big of a thing
Speaker 2: that you're you end the relationship. But the truth is
Speaker 2: relationships are in many ways about compromise. You have to
Speaker 2: say I can give this, if you can promise me
Speaker 2: that like or you know, I would say it says
Speaker 2: a lot about a person if they're not open to
Speaker 2: compromise and to change. Because life is guaranteed to throw
Speaker 2: unexpected things at you. As much as you can have
Speaker 2: these important conversations about how do we want to live
Speaker 2: our lives, someone can get a job off or someone
Speaker 2: can get laid off, and then maybe you've got to
Speaker 2: make a different job decision and maybe you have to move.
Speaker 2: Maybe the way things are in this state has changed
Speaker 2: and you've got to get out of there. So you
Speaker 2: do want a partner in life who's going to be
Speaker 2: open to change and compromise and willing to give a
Speaker 2: little bit. It's a red flag for you if you're
Speaker 2: the one who's always giving and your partner never is.
Speaker 2: But I do think the question what do you do
Speaker 2: if someone wants to move and the other one doesn't, Well,
Speaker 2: somebody's got to give. That's the unfortunate truth about it,
Speaker 2: and it'll tell you a lot about that person if
Speaker 2: they're not willing to give even a little bit, if
Speaker 2: it's something that's really important to you, it might not
Speaker 2: make them wrong, are you wrong? But it might mean
Speaker 2: a big problem in the rerun.
Speaker 1: Even that could be a compromise of Hey, okay, so
Speaker 1: if I give here, let's move to Lincoln, Nebraska for
Speaker 1: five years, and then let's also look about moving forward
Speaker 1: here or you know, wherever. So again, the compromise isn't
Speaker 1: just A or B, so it's very layered, nuanced. But
Speaker 1: it's just something that Lauren and I have seen a
Speaker 1: lot with some of our friends lately, and we keep
Speaker 1: talking about this, and it's a it's a huge deal
Speaker 1: because people do get a big especially in this day
Speaker 1: and age of work. It's like you get a good job,
Speaker 1: well sometimes you do have to move for that, and
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to sacrifice, and you have to figure
Speaker 1: out what's the most important thing.
Speaker 2: Callie asks, thoughts on the right time to move in together.
Speaker 1: Probably during right before during a global pandemic, and again
Speaker 1: in our lifetime, you've only been able to count on
Speaker 1: that once. With the way, but with the way our
Speaker 1: government works, I think we can probably just probably have
Speaker 1: one of these every year. I'm guessing now. But that's
Speaker 1: what Laura and I did.
Speaker 2: That is and by the way, we that was earlier
Speaker 2: than we talked about it. We had this plan we
Speaker 2: were going to I had an apartment, Chris had his house,
Speaker 2: and Chris's son was finishing his senior year of high school,
Speaker 2: and I said, you know, we talked about moving in together.
Speaker 2: And I said, you know, let's have Josh finish out
Speaker 2: his senior year of high school. I don't need to
Speaker 2: come in and rock the boat. I'll stay in this
Speaker 2: apartment in the city. And you were like, yeah, that'll
Speaker 2: be awesome. We'll have this place in the city and
Speaker 2: we can you know, I can come stay there with
Speaker 2: you sometimes when I don't have the kids, we'll do
Speaker 2: fun dinners. And then March twenty twenty. I moved into
Speaker 2: that apartment in January twenty twenty. Yeah, and then March
Speaker 2: twenty we.
Speaker 1: Really got our money's worth out of that.
Speaker 2: So I will say, first of all, remind yourself that
Speaker 2: it's never going to be the perfect time. There isn't
Speaker 2: Gosh we plan and God laughs, there is never going
Speaker 2: to be the perfect time to move in together, to
Speaker 2: have kids, to try a new city. There are always
Speaker 2: going to be these little things that might be raising
Speaker 2: questions for you in your mind. But I will also
Speaker 2: say thoughts on the right time to move in together,
Speaker 2: keyword there being time. If there was one piece of
Speaker 2: advice I would give anybody on a relationship, it is that,
Speaker 2: And I would even put it to the specifics of
Speaker 2: like a year. You've got to be with somebody for
Speaker 2: a certain amount of time to see what kind of
Speaker 2: person they are, because even when you think you know someone,
Speaker 2: you have to see them through a.
Speaker 1: Couple of I recommend at least four seasons.
Speaker 2: Four seasons, Yes, you got to see them through, like
Speaker 2: how do they react in situations? And only time will
Speaker 2: give you that how are they when someone sick?
Speaker 1: Only see the best version of somebody and make all
Speaker 1: your judgments on that, because everybody can be perfect for
Speaker 1: those first one, two, three months. You know, it's it's
Speaker 1: easy when you live alone. You live separately, I mean,
Speaker 1: and it's easy to put on your best face all
Speaker 1: the time and when you're not feeling good, like Lauren
Speaker 1: just said, oh, you know, I'm going to stay in tonight,
Speaker 1: And so you just don't see each other. You don't
Speaker 1: have to deal with that. You need to have dealt
Speaker 1: with each other and been in the trenches and gone
Speaker 1: through some tough times to realize this can work.
Speaker 2: Go on a road trip together first, Yeah, travel, travel
Speaker 2: travel together for sure, Yes.
Speaker 1: No matter what that is. And I know everyone can't
Speaker 1: travel the same, but do something where you are camping whatever.
Speaker 2: The less glamorous, the more it's going to tell you
Speaker 2: on whether you can move in with someone. Book the
Speaker 2: worst trip ever.
Speaker 1: And I was just I was just a big fan
Speaker 1: of with us. The moment felt right. The times to
Speaker 1: change felt right. For letting everybody know that we were
Speaker 1: in a relationship six months in just felt like I just.
Speaker 2: Said, But it didn't feel right with the I mean
Speaker 2: with the pandemic rereforce.
Speaker 1: I I was ready. It did feel right. Was it
Speaker 1: ahead of our schedule?
Speaker 2: Sure?
Speaker 1: But I think it's still I would argue it felt right.
Speaker 2: Oh that's a good one.
Speaker 1: I don't think it felt like we weren't prepared for
Speaker 1: this to move in. It just wasn't our life plan
Speaker 1: at the moment. I think we probably would have been
Speaker 1: another four or five, maybe.
Speaker 2: Six a good point. It was telltale that when the
Speaker 2: pandemic happened, we kind of looked at each other and
Speaker 2: it was like, Okay, I'm coming to stay with you.
Speaker 1: I mean it was an easy decision.
Speaker 2: Is an easy decision that we're both ready for.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so that step was easy to take. Again,
Speaker 1: you can't always count on a global pandemic.
Speaker 2: And you know what else, we were excited about it
Speaker 2: even though it was the pandemic. I think you should
Speaker 2: be excited to move in together. It shouldn't be questioning it.
Speaker 2: It shouldn't be like at that phase in your relationship
Speaker 2: it's probably still pretty new, and it should still be
Speaker 2: a bit of that honeymoon phase of we're excited to
Speaker 2: be together. No, and it should be exciting to like
Speaker 2: put your pieces together, build your home and your nest together,
Speaker 2: and it should be fun.
Speaker 1: Should I end with a very personal question about us?
Speaker 1: Because Mary asked this will be our last question today?
Speaker 1: Mary asked, what will you and LZ do different this
Speaker 1: time to make your marriage work?
Speaker 2: Wow? What will we do differently this time to make
Speaker 2: our marriage work?
Speaker 1: Clearly, as Mary did her homework, we've both been married,
Speaker 1: we're both divorced. Yes, yes, this is number two for
Speaker 1: both of us.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't mean to not I don't mean to
Speaker 2: not answer Mary's question, but I guess the problem with
Speaker 2: the way to answer that is that I think we
Speaker 2: are different people in different life places. And then the
Speaker 2: first times we both got married and going into this relationship,
Speaker 2: we both knew what we wanted out of a relationship
Speaker 2: and out of a partner, and we knew what we
Speaker 2: were looking for and we'd made mistakes, so we we've
Speaker 2: come into it totally differently.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I always say, you know, and this goes for
Speaker 1: anybody's ex. You know, the next person usually when you
Speaker 1: are older, wiser, is getting a better version of you.
Speaker 1: Sure you are a much but I am a much
Speaker 1: better listener, conversationalists, caretaker, just impath for somebody.
Speaker 2: Gosh, being a single dad made you, Oh gosh, you're
Speaker 2: so good at so many things, the things.
Speaker 1: Honestly, that was the best boot camp I ever went
Speaker 1: through was being a single dad and I was fifty
Speaker 1: to fifty. I never want to take away from their mom.
Speaker 1: She did a wonderful job. She is a wonderful mother.
Speaker 1: But half the time I was alone and completely alone
Speaker 1: in everything we did from the moment we woke up
Speaker 1: to homework and everything, sick, everything. So that prepared me
Speaker 1: in a way for my next relationship that I couldn't
Speaker 1: even explain. I mean, it's taken me to a level
Speaker 1: that when I got married at twenty three, somebody was
Speaker 1: still parenting me.
Speaker 2: What I will say, maybe, and again it's kind of
Speaker 2: something we did beforehand, but what will we both do
Speaker 2: to make our marriage work this time? We're both older
Speaker 2: and wiser. I mean, we were both in our early
Speaker 2: twenties and we got married, so that's huge. We both
Speaker 2: know who we are, like I think we both got
Speaker 2: married the first time not fully knowing who we were yet.
Speaker 2: And for me, maybe the biggest thing on why I
Speaker 2: think okay, I feel better about this is I got
Speaker 2: married and I got engaged and married way too fast.
Speaker 2: The first time, I got engaged after only about eight months. Yep,
Speaker 2: I didn't. I hadn't given that relationship the time and
Speaker 2: trials and tribulations to know yet that that was a lifelong.
Speaker 1: I would say my biggest strength now and this might
Speaker 1: get me in trouble. And I don't mean it this way.
Speaker 1: Elsie and I might get in a fight about this. No,
Speaker 1: because it's not to say that she's always wrong, or
Speaker 1: it's not to say that she's ever wrong. But I
Speaker 1: think I am so much more. And again this goes
Speaker 1: back to being a single dad. I'm so much more
Speaker 1: patient because at this age and at this stage in
Speaker 1: my life I know what's important. I know what's important
Speaker 1: to me. I know what really matters, and so I
Speaker 1: don't mind the little thing so much. They just don't
Speaker 1: bother me so so much. More can roll off my back,
Speaker 1: and I can give a lot more. I can see
Speaker 1: through things. If Lauren just in a bad mood or whatever.
Speaker 1: It just things that normally would have degraded into a
Speaker 1: fight and just blown up a situation that could really explode.
Speaker 1: I know, and you're really good at this anyway, but
Speaker 1: I know myself to see from a thousand feet and go,
Speaker 1: this isn't worth fighting about, This isn't worth three days
Speaker 1: of life.
Speaker 2: I also got better at fighting, and maybe that's what
Speaker 2: you mean. Is I mean we argue and disagree, but
Speaker 2: on so much less occasion than I did in my
Speaker 2: first marriage. I mean I was younger, I was more
Speaker 2: hot headed, but I also had to learn how to
Speaker 2: argue with people, and that was working on myself too.
Speaker 2: I mean, if you're with somebody who's you're having toxic, angry,
Speaker 2: yelling arguments with, I am here to tell you that's
Speaker 2: not normal and it's not healthy. I think I thought
Speaker 2: the first time around, or we're both going to grow
Speaker 2: and we're both going to get past this and maybe
Speaker 2: you can do that and grow together. But we grew apart,
Speaker 2: and I really had a moment of saying to myself,
Speaker 2: I have to work on how I talk to people,
Speaker 2: how I react to things myself. And so I've gotten
Speaker 2: a lot better at that. And I think arguing is
Speaker 2: healthy and I think it's going to happen. But I
Speaker 2: definitely now in our relationship, I watch my words because
Speaker 2: in my first marriage, we were much more likely to hurl,
Speaker 2: you know, heart heart and hurt full words or things
Speaker 2: at each other. And I've realized that words hurt more
Speaker 2: than anything, and you really have to be careful what
Speaker 2: you say because you can't take it back.
Speaker 1: So I don't want to end I know that was
Speaker 1: the last question. I don't want to end on such
Speaker 1: a like serious down there, so I will kind of.
Speaker 1: This is part B. What's a quirk about each other? Personality, hygiene, habits, really,
Speaker 1: anything that surprised you?
Speaker 2: Oh from Wendy, what is a quirk about each other
Speaker 2: that surprised you? And man, when you move in with
Speaker 2: somebody or when you get married, you see you're surprised.
Speaker 2: So you can still learn things what's a quirk about
Speaker 2: me that surprised you, because I don't have mine about
Speaker 2: you yet. Do you know your answer?
Speaker 1: One thing, first and foremost Voldemort, Oholdemort, impressions, but really
Speaker 1: just a lot of impressions and voices.
Speaker 2: I'm a theater kid.
Speaker 1: Those are things that you know, I kind a glimpse
Speaker 1: of I knew, you know, she did Roses and Rose.
Speaker 1: She did Roses and Rose, and you know I so
Speaker 1: I saw it. I knew the theatrical side, and I
Speaker 1: love the theater. But that was something that I noticed more
Speaker 1: of as she got more comfortable.
Speaker 2: For sure, that's so true. I didn't give you the
Speaker 2: full theatrical experience.
Speaker 1: Her and her sister don't have anything other than that
Speaker 1: going on. They speak to each other.
Speaker 2: In weird voices, in code and.
Speaker 1: In weird voices.
Speaker 2: So true.
Speaker 1: I know immediately when you're on the phone with your sister,
Speaker 1: So true, never your voice.
Speaker 2: And you're right. And I purposely didn't give you that
Speaker 2: side of myself in the beginning. I will say, look, you,
Speaker 2: the person's got to love you for who you are.
Speaker 2: But just like I might not do my Voldemort impression.
Speaker 2: As I walk into a business meeting, I didn't do
Speaker 2: it on the first date. This was my first date
Speaker 2: version of myself and I did. Also, it made me
Speaker 2: love you more that you watched Roses and Rose and
Speaker 2: you saw that weird side of me and that you
Speaker 2: liked it, that you didn't have an issue with it.
Speaker 1: But we go back to spend at least four seasons
Speaker 1: together before you make any dress, because you need to
Speaker 1: see that.
Speaker 2: You need to.
Speaker 1: See more and more and more of that, because hey,
Speaker 1: maybe that will drive you crazy. Turns out I love it.
Speaker 1: It does not.
Speaker 2: But I think a quirk about you was when we
Speaker 2: moved in together. I you are such a clean, put
Speaker 2: together person on the surface. I learned Chris's house is
Speaker 2: very clean. I mean, he's a single dad, he's a bachelor,
Speaker 2: but he had a clean house. There wasn't a lot
Speaker 2: of clutter everywhere. But in the pandemic, I was going
Speaker 2: a little stir crazy and I'm a big organizer, and
Speaker 2: I actually thought about putting this on social media, but
Speaker 2: I didn't because I didn't want you to be embarrassed.
Speaker 2: I started going through Chris's house thinking what else can
Speaker 2: I do in this time? I know we're going to
Speaker 2: clean house. We're gonna do spring cleaning. We're gonna revamp
Speaker 2: the house, get some new picture frames and pictures in them.
Speaker 2: Like do a revamp, get some new stuff for the
Speaker 2: kids rooms. Well, I would open a cabinet door and
Speaker 2: des cascade of stuff would come falling out. Chris Harrison
Speaker 2: might be an exaggeration, is a messy behind the scenes.
Speaker 2: May I opened one cabinet in your kitchen and there
Speaker 2: were just empty boxes in the cabinet, like cardboard boxes.
Speaker 1: You never know when you need boxes. Boxes are important. Okay,
Speaker 1: you're not wrong, You're not You're not wrong. It might
Speaker 1: not be that bad.
Speaker 2: Here's a quirk about Chris Harrison. It's hard for him
Speaker 2: to not be perfect. He has an issue. We're messing up.
Speaker 2: Yeah no, But but what was great about that was
Speaker 2: I loved to organize, and I do think we're good
Speaker 2: at like our flaws or Quirks's strength. Yes, the dynamic duo.
Speaker 1: And yes, on that note, we will put a pin
Speaker 1: in your questions and your answers for now. But love
Speaker 1: doing this, love hearing from you. And again, if you
Speaker 1: have any crazy relationship stories, questions, things you want us
Speaker 1: to talk about here on the pod, go to the
Speaker 1: most Dramatic Pod Ever on Insta. Leave your questions, leave
Speaker 1: your comments there. We'll pick them up and we'll bring
Speaker 1: them here on the show from time to time.
Speaker 2: Thanks everybody, Love you all.
Speaker 1: We'll see you next time because we have a lot
Speaker 1: more to talk about. Thanks for listening. Follow us on
Speaker 1: Instagram at the most Dramatic Pod Ever and make sure
Speaker 1: to write us a review and leave us five stars.
Speaker 1: I'll talk to you next time.