Speaker 1: Ridiculous crime is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: ZI what Elizabeth does?
Speaker 3: See a ro Zeren nice to see.
Speaker 2: I'm not spelling your name.
Speaker 3: Don't do it this minute. You know it's ridiculous. Oh
Speaker 3: my god, I do yes, tell me.
Speaker 2: Okay, there's this crazy relationship or ratio. So I can
Speaker 2: hold my air underwater. I can hold my breath underwater
Speaker 2: for about two minutes, okay, right, Like I can easily
Speaker 2: do two minutes. I try to get past that. It's
Speaker 2: really hard to get like up to like three minutes.
Speaker 2: But I can do two minutes guaranteed. Do you know
Speaker 2: that dolphins can hold their breath four times as long
Speaker 2: as I can about eight minutes underwater? Really, we're both mammals.
Speaker 2: We're both required to sam I need to take a breath.
Speaker 2: They can do it eight eight minutes, eight to ten
Speaker 2: sometimes that's about the average. Do you know what other
Speaker 2: mammal can do four times as long as a dolphin.
Speaker 3: Can four times as long as a dog?
Speaker 2: Huh that's what I just said. Oh dang, do you
Speaker 2: know who sloths? What the tree mammal sloss? The one
Speaker 2: slow moving trying to cross it. You gotta cark and
Speaker 2: wait while they cry.
Speaker 3: The correct then in half an hour.
Speaker 2: Forty minutes they can hold their breath underwater. What yes,
Speaker 2: forty minutes four times longer than a dolphin, four times
Speaker 2: longer than a dolphin. Wow, that's nuts. Which is four
Speaker 2: times longer than me, So sixteen times longer than me.
Speaker 2: Elizabeth does work.
Speaker 3: But you know what I'm saying, ten times twenty times
Speaker 3: the actual math.
Speaker 2: But but my whole thing is, you know how, No,
Speaker 2: by being super slots, they're saying they can slow down,
Speaker 2: that they can go into water and slow down their metabolism,
Speaker 2: slow down their wreathings, slow down all their their heartbeat,
Speaker 2: all of it to a third of its normals.
Speaker 3: Great, it's a slots of shoe money in a toilet,
Speaker 3: a collector waiting animal before it starts to slowly.
Speaker 2: I hope you brought a book.
Speaker 3: Yes, Wow, that's ridiculous, right, that's super ridiculous. Do you
Speaker 3: want to know what else is ridiculous?
Speaker 2: That's what I came here for.
Speaker 3: Deserving to be broke? What this is? Ridiculous? Crime a
Speaker 3: podcast about absurd and outrageous capers, ice and cons. It's
Speaker 3: always ninety nine percent murder free and one hundred percent
Speaker 3: ridiculous heard that.
Speaker 2: I know you did, ha ha.
Speaker 3: You're familiar with the Vietnamese boat people.
Speaker 2: Correct, Yes, I am familiar with the Vietnamese boat paper
Speaker 2: for me to.
Speaker 3: Make that transision, ha ha, Vietnamese people familiar, So you are.
Speaker 3: I'm talking about refugees. They to leave Vietnam. It's so
Speaker 3: hard to come off.
Speaker 2: Of the Oh yeah, no, I understand that. Yeah, how
Speaker 2: do you get out of the It's a casey case
Speaker 2: in moment.
Speaker 3: Oh my, it were like those newscasters like, yes, you
Speaker 3: know anyway, US refugees leave Vietnam end of the war
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy five, terribly terrible wature humanitarian crisises. So when
Speaker 3: I say major, I'm talking hundreds of thousands of people.
Speaker 3: Between nineteen seventy five and nineteen ninety five, eight hundred
Speaker 3: thousand people who fled Vietnam by boat arrived safely in
Speaker 3: another country, and a lot of others left by other means.
Speaker 3: But we're talking about those who left on boat, specifically
Speaker 3: barrowing journey. So they went up against these wild storms
Speaker 3: in the South China Sea and beyond oh Indian Ocean,
Speaker 3: Philippines seas. Those are intense disease was rampant. They encountered pirates.
Speaker 2: Of course, yeah, because they never stopped, right.
Speaker 3: Exactly, It's not like they're own cruise ships. And these
Speaker 3: small boats crammed with people running for their lives. Somewhere
Speaker 3: between two hundred thousand and four hundred thousand did not
Speaker 3: survive the journey. So what's your ridiculous takeaway? Now? So
Speaker 3: over order a million people made this trip, but like
Speaker 3: a quarter of them didn't make it, so trailer of
Speaker 3: tiers over the ocean completely. First the people went to
Speaker 3: like Hong Kong or other areas in Southeast Asia, and
Speaker 3: then from there a lot of them were sent to
Speaker 3: resettle in other countries Canada, Italy, Australia, France, UK, West Germany,
Speaker 3: which was a thing at the time, and the United States. So,
Speaker 3: like I said, this was a humanitarian crisis, and you
Speaker 3: had people who'd until then had led really normal everyday.
Speaker 2: Live taken away from them. And yeah, yeah, they had.
Speaker 3: Good jobs, they owned businesses, homes, land, and then all
Speaker 3: of a sudden they got nothing. They're out on the
Speaker 3: ocean praying to at least reach dry land.
Speaker 2: Hold in luggage.
Speaker 3: Yeah. One of those people was a kid named twan
Speaker 3: On Vu and Twan was seventeen years old. He was
Speaker 3: the oldest of ten kids in this upper class family.
Speaker 3: Me too, Twan. His dad military man, but he also
Speaker 3: had a real estate business and he owned some land.
Speaker 3: And so they got all.
Speaker 2: This pretty well. Oh yeah, they do it really well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, total in the upper classes. Twan gets sent to
Speaker 3: Catholic school. He's this good kid, yeah, super super smart
Speaker 3: kid and he so he has this lovely life, one
Speaker 3: of privilege until April nineteen seventy five, and so that's
Speaker 3: when he and his family they had to flee Vietnam
Speaker 3: by boat. Two months later, they found themselves in the
Speaker 3: Florida Panhandle at the refugee camp at Eglin Air Force Base.
Speaker 2: Other than the temperature and humidity, what a culture show.
Speaker 3: A lot of culture sucks. And they had nothing. They
Speaker 3: had to start from scratch. They don't speak the language,
Speaker 3: like this is rough business. They made their way toward Orlando,
Speaker 3: and Twan got a job as a busboy in a
Speaker 3: town called a Popka. He had other jobs concurrently other
Speaker 3: than bus boy. He was a grocery bagger, did some dishwashing.
Speaker 3: This is a very common story from that era. So
Speaker 3: the Vietnamese and the Cambodians and the monk who had
Speaker 3: to flee after the war. They came here and they
Speaker 3: like busted out serious hustle culture.
Speaker 2: Total, especially down there the Delta, the whole, yeah, the Gulf,
Speaker 2: that region in the Mississippi, Alabama, Florida Panhandle exactly.
Speaker 3: There's a really great documentary about a Cambodian refugee who
Speaker 3: kicked off a donut empire in the Yeah, it's called
Speaker 3: Donut King. I highly recommend it. There's another documentary called
Speaker 3: Nailed It about how Vietnamese immigrants took over the nail
Speaker 3: salon Dope and you can trace that to the actress
Speaker 3: Tippy Hedron. So she was heavily evolved, Yeah, heavily involved
Speaker 3: in humanitarian work with Vietnamese refugees in nineteen seventy five.
Speaker 3: Some of the women that she met complimented her manicure,
Speaker 3: and so she came up with this brilliant idea. She
Speaker 3: brought her manicurist to one of the refugee camps in
Speaker 3: northern California to teach the women there how to do
Speaker 3: nails just like they did them in Beverly Hills. And
Speaker 3: so it didn't require a lot of startup money. You
Speaker 3: could work absolutely anywhere. You didn't have to speak a
Speaker 3: whole lot of English because like conversations and exchanges could
Speaker 3: be done with pictures or holding stuff up. So the
Speaker 3: refugees they got licensed for nails and then for hair,
Speaker 3: and then they took over the nail businesses, and I
Speaker 3: love that so much. So back to Twine, Yes he's hustling.
Speaker 3: It's in nineteen eighty. He'd been in the US for
Speaker 3: five years. In those five years, he learned how to
Speaker 3: speak English. He worked a bunch of jobs, still managed
Speaker 3: to go to the University of Central Florida and get
Speaker 3: a bachelor's in General Business administration. Business degrees they're great
Speaker 3: if you think you're going to have trouble getting hired
Speaker 3: by someone. So when I taught in the prison, that's
Speaker 3: the degree we offered associates in business because like there
Speaker 3: are other prison programs that offer all sorts of degrees.
Speaker 3: But you know, we did business because you could be
Speaker 3: your own boss. No one's going to ask if you've
Speaker 3: been convicted of a felony if you're your own boss,
Speaker 3: which in California they can't ask that anymore. The Fair
Speaker 3: Chance Act called Ban the Box, so Anyway, if you're
Speaker 3: a refugee without a work history, it's really tough to
Speaker 3: get a job. And so for Twan, getting a business
Speaker 3: degree fit in perfectly with that hustle culture attitude that
Speaker 3: he had. So we talk a lot about hustle culture these.
Speaker 2: Days, not you and I, the culture does general.
Speaker 3: And I think you know, having lots of side gigs
Speaker 3: that you try and grow in order to survive and
Speaker 3: then thrive, that's what you know hustle culture. I think
Speaker 3: that for the most part, though, it's just a way
Speaker 3: to exploit labor completely.
Speaker 2: It's like it used to be the immigrant culture when
Speaker 2: I was a boy, they called immigant culture, when you
Speaker 2: had to have multiple jobs to survive. In American capitalism,
Speaker 2: now it was just everybody has to do this because you're.
Speaker 3: Not full time. You don't get benefits exactly. You have
Speaker 3: to put in your own capital for supplies or like
Speaker 3: a car or whatever, and you don't have any ownership
Speaker 3: stakes in it.
Speaker 2: And also you're likely to compete against your fellow coworkers
Speaker 2: basically because now each of you is your own little boss,
Speaker 2: your own little running enterprise.
Speaker 3: And so you look at like the Cambodian families who
Speaker 3: worked just like crazy at these donut shops. I'm talking
Speaker 3: like eighteen to twenty hour work days for the whole family. Kids.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, kids, we're up in there. But they had
Speaker 3: an investment, you know, they had a franchise that they could.
Speaker 2: Grow, and they're investing in their family.
Speaker 3: Essentially, there's some ownership to it.
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly.
Speaker 3: So the work like that is worth it if you're
Speaker 3: going to work really hard, but you have ownership in it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you getting are hustle.
Speaker 2: Culture white equity for your own life.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're hustling for someone else. That's exploitation. Yes, so
Speaker 3: I get I get really frustrated watching old movies and
Speaker 3: TV shows where you see like a taxi driver or
Speaker 3: a garbage man or a teacher is the sole breadwinner
Speaker 3: in a family and they can afford a home and
Speaker 3: a car and food on the table.
Speaker 2: True, basically true till Reagan.
Speaker 3: Yeah it's not now, but not for decades has that
Speaker 3: been true. Anyway, We've entered the winter of darker. I'm
Speaker 3: sorry about that. I don't call the shots. I just
Speaker 3: worked there.
Speaker 2: It's the hustle. The culture is bringing it out.
Speaker 3: Yes, it is so, Yeah, twe I like that name
Speaker 3: t U A N T one. He's killing it.
Speaker 2: Oh good on him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so he he has a degree, he has a
Speaker 3: desire to make it and what he's hustling towards is
Speaker 3: an ownership in something. Oh great, you know it's his own.
Speaker 2: He realizes that's the secret to America owned some games.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So within two years he was leading real estate seminars.
Speaker 3: He's teaching people how to build a real estate empire
Speaker 3: that he has not built. No, that he's at twenty
Speaker 3: four by this point, he's he's building it.
Speaker 2: Okay, so he does have enough that would qualify as
Speaker 2: an empire. Okay, I did to know if he's like,
Speaker 2: I got two houses, here's out of building.
Speaker 3: He's already like he's cracking this stuff up. And by
Speaker 3: this time he's calling himself Tom Tom Vu.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that name.
Speaker 3: Yes, so he started picking people's brains. He met a
Speaker 3: woman who worked at a title company, and he asked
Speaker 3: her all about the real estate business, and she shared
Speaker 3: everything she knew, gave him like little pointers that she developed.
Speaker 3: He's working at a restaurant and he brought a glass
Speaker 3: of water to this man, like this rich guy. He
Speaker 3: goes up to him He's like, tell me all your secrets,
Speaker 3: like how do I become rich? And the guy just
Speaker 3: loved him because he was so magnetic. Yeah, so he's like,
Speaker 3: I'll tell you the secret to my fortune. And Tom
Speaker 3: he condensed the secret into three words, three words, three words. Now,
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, it's a secret. I can't share it with
Speaker 3: you right now, Zarin, But are you for real? I'm
Speaker 3: dead serious. So Tom he used that secret and he
Speaker 3: ran with it.
Speaker 2: Why do you do this to me?
Speaker 3: You know? He later said, quote, one day a thought
Speaker 3: go through my head. It almost like a command, go
Speaker 3: teach people how to do this. So he's like, I
Speaker 3: have the secret, is there in voices? Now now now
Speaker 3: the voices are telling me to share it. So, just
Speaker 3: like his dad before him, he got into real estate naturally.
Speaker 3: He worked and worked and he saved money and then
Speaker 3: he bought his first house in Orlando for twenty thousand dollars.
Speaker 3: Two years later, that's eighty one. Two years later, he's
Speaker 3: leading seminars teaching people how to get rich by investing
Speaker 3: in real estate. How do people like? How did he
Speaker 3: get people through the door? Like to hear his.
Speaker 2: I'd be curious to commercials, oh like late night commercials.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so do you remember those commercials of his? Like,
Speaker 3: I have vague memories. I think they ran late at night.
Speaker 3: Oh yes, yeah, I watched a bunch of them recently
Speaker 3: on the YouTube.
Speaker 2: You want me to tell you what I remember?
Speaker 3: Were incredible? Hit me?
Speaker 2: Okay, telling me this is accurate because I had not
Speaker 2: seen one since they were like way back then. He's
Speaker 2: on a boat, like a like a white like bayliner,
Speaker 2: like some kind of like you know, small yacht, and
Speaker 2: then'll be like two girls on either side of him
Speaker 2: while he's sitting on the back of the boat, and
Speaker 2: they're both in bikinis, and he's wearing like a like
Speaker 2: a Don Johnson Miamivice style like color combination, and he's
Speaker 2: always like, look at these babes, and he's like all excited,
Speaker 2: like he's like gonna sell you the secret, but the
Speaker 2: secret is how to get close to these babes exactly.
Speaker 3: Here's here's how the Orlando Sentinel described the commercials, super
Speaker 3: in line with what you're saying. Quote, here's Tom on
Speaker 3: a yacht surrounded by bikini clad women of geographically proportioned cleavage.
Speaker 3: Here's Tom and his mansion. Here's Tom with a scarf
Speaker 3: around his neck, bouncing a tennis ball on his private court.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, he is by his swimming pool. And here's
Speaker 3: Tom riding in his Rolls Royce convertible at a party.
Speaker 3: And again with the bikini clad women. When the camera
Speaker 3: zooms in for a close up of Tom's face, we
Speaker 3: get some cleavage just north of his ear lobe. Do
Speaker 3: you like my toy, he says, grinning smugly, referring not
Speaker 3: to the women but to the roles. It's one of
Speaker 3: the many toys I have. I'm talking about toy cars
Speaker 3: to the Mercedes, BMW's, all sorts of things in my garage.
Speaker 3: You want to be wealthy like this like I am. Well,
Speaker 3: you need to come to my seminar.
Speaker 2: Oh man, Yes, when you started describing that, I was
Speaker 2: getting the mental images like the car, the definitely the tennis.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, Dennis, he's got all the signifiers.
Speaker 2: He's like the Robin Leech style of that early eighties.
Speaker 3: Well, oh, completely yes. And so the commercials they're pretty
Speaker 3: much Tom giving like a pep talk and pumping up
Speaker 3: the viewer, all with bodacious babes landing around. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: so like there are some that start with photos of
Speaker 3: his family in the refugee camp.
Speaker 2: How does that work with the question he talks about.
Speaker 3: No, it's funny because it just certainly cuts over. He's
Speaker 3: talking about how Hardy works and how much they needed,
Speaker 3: and then all.
Speaker 2: Of a sudden, him on the boat. Yeah, with the boobs.
Speaker 3: And the seminars, they're there, you know. He says, like,
Speaker 3: I'll teach you the secret in three little words, but
Speaker 3: you have to attend the seminar to learn those three words.
Speaker 3: And then the seminars are copyrighted. So he said, no
Speaker 3: one else can teach this stuff. Okay, So he shows
Speaker 3: off a waterfall outside his mansion. He rolls up in
Speaker 3: a Rolls Royce. He barks, if you're not willing to
Speaker 3: come to my free ninety minute seminar, you deserve to
Speaker 3: be broke.
Speaker 2: The seminar's free.
Speaker 3: Yeah, wow, free ninety minute seminars.
Speaker 2: He was charging to get into the room.
Speaker 3: No, you'll see. So there are testimonials in some of these,
Speaker 3: and many of the folks they speak with distinct accents,
Speaker 3: which kind of adds to like anyone can do this,
Speaker 3: and no one who kept out.
Speaker 2: That was very much part of the cell. It was
Speaker 2: he would have people who's like this plantation and look
Speaker 2: at what he's done, you.
Speaker 3: Know, Yes, And then the testimonials, people hold up checks
Speaker 3: showing like how many hundreds of thousands of dollars they've
Speaker 3: made from selling distressed property.
Speaker 2: Totally I bought three homes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then it goes back to Tom. He's giving
Speaker 3: his like wealth affirmations, you only live once, don't let
Speaker 3: your life slip away. One that I loved there's an
Speaker 3: old American saying, get off your button, do it like
Speaker 3: that's on the back of the declary one to say
Speaker 3: that he's like there are doers in there, talkers, So
Speaker 3: you know, he's just he's so confident and positive that
Speaker 3: you can see how people get roped in. And he
Speaker 3: talks about how he's not smarter than anyone else. He's
Speaker 3: just got motivation drive. Anyone can have it if they want.
Speaker 3: And so these they're ninety second commercials. They're also like
Speaker 3: thirty and sixty minute infomercials. Yes again, Yeah it's Babes Mansions,
Speaker 3: Rolls Royce, just.
Speaker 2: A shorter, truncated version of the same thing.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And there were there were in Living Color and Saturday
Speaker 3: Night Live sketches that parodied the ads okay, because they're
Speaker 3: ridiculous and they're.
Speaker 2: So memorable too. It's late night and you know who's
Speaker 2: upstated late at night shows exactly.
Speaker 3: But the ads are genius because they tapped in the
Speaker 3: people's desire for riches, or at least like better circumstances.
Speaker 2: And accessibility to the riches, and they just gassed people
Speaker 2: off like you can do, this, can be you.
Speaker 3: It was so such motivational speech, but then like really
Speaker 3: plain talk.
Speaker 2: And this is still new that kind of yeah, because
Speaker 2: we're coming out of the seventies idea of like personality
Speaker 2: st and all this, like you can be and maximize
Speaker 2: who you are. They like Dale Carnegie, how to win
Speaker 2: friends and influence people all that, but it's also also
Speaker 2: very focused on you being charming, and this was like
Speaker 2: you getting rich, and that's what the eighties switched. It
Speaker 2: was like, forget all that soul stuff. You want money
Speaker 2: now here in this world.
Speaker 3: Believe in yourself because like Tom already believes exactly. So
Speaker 3: let's take a break and we come back. We're going
Speaker 3: to look into some of these seminars.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, all right, sarenes So Tom.
Speaker 2: Vu say that without knowing at all what's about to occur.
Speaker 3: He's kind of yeah, we'll find out. He makes a
Speaker 3: ton of money on real estate. Most of his fortune, though,
Speaker 3: came from the seminars. He'd advertise these free seminars, like
Speaker 3: you said, generally in like Florida or California, and they
Speaker 3: took place in hotel ballrooms. You know the drill. There's
Speaker 3: like rows of chairs ac making the room freeze, and
Speaker 3: they'd be like up to like a thousand people in
Speaker 3: these rooms, and you know what, like, let's go to
Speaker 3: a freeze saren, close your eyes a picture. You are
Speaker 3: a young man standing in the ballroom of the Marriott
Speaker 3: Hotel on a Friday evening. There's a seminar going on,
Speaker 3: and you are there because you work for events services
Speaker 3: at the hotel. You run the sound system and sit
Speaker 3: at a table at the back of the room, making
Speaker 3: sure the MIC's work and the sound stays clear. You're
Speaker 3: also in charge of the gentle background music that plays
Speaker 3: between presentations. For this one, you've been told to play
Speaker 3: some cool synth music like you'd hear in an episode
Speaker 3: of night Rider favorite show. You keep it nice and low,
Speaker 3: and the beat seems to be getting some people kind
Speaker 3: of excited and maybe a little fired up for this
Speaker 3: thing you saw on the signs. That's for that guy,
Speaker 3: Tom Vu. He has those infomercials about making a ton
Speaker 3: of money on real estate, but you really remember the
Speaker 3: hot ladies and bikinis, hubba and the hubba. Tom Voo's
Speaker 3: sister has been coordinating the whole event with the hotel staff.
Speaker 3: She's really nice. She runs a tight ship and has
Speaker 3: high standards. That works for you. You're really proud of what
Speaker 3: you do and you take it very seriously. She loves you.
Speaker 3: She's standing off to the side of the room as
Speaker 3: people file in, chat over paper cups of coffee and
Speaker 3: sit in the upholstered straight back event chair. You keep
Speaker 3: an eye on her so you'll be ready when she
Speaker 3: gives the signal, which she does. She nods your way
Speaker 3: and you dim the lights, quiet the music. You raise
Speaker 3: the volume on the wireless mic you supplied mister Voo earlier.
Speaker 3: Hi Tom Voo comes bounding into the room and takes
Speaker 3: his place up at the front of sympodium. The crowd
Speaker 3: goes nuts. You ready to bake big money. Everyone cheers.
Speaker 3: Motivating folks is in my blood. You want to be
Speaker 3: rich don't you. Well, if you make no money with me,
Speaker 3: you're a loser. Keep wo holler, clap and whistle. You
Speaker 3: have to admit this is kind of exciting. Tom vo
Speaker 3: continues his platitudes and basically says the same stuff that's
Speaker 3: in his ads. You're getting into this and kind of
Speaker 3: hoping that maybe he'll pick up some tips, but no.
Speaker 3: Tom Voo now moves on to the next level. He
Speaker 3: tells the crowd that if they want to lock in
Speaker 3: and get rich, they need to sign up for the
Speaker 3: full class that weekend. As people walk through the room,
Speaker 3: circular a pamphlet for the course. You take one and
Speaker 3: read it just like you. The brochure says, I want
Speaker 3: it now, all caps, fifteen hundred dollars for the class.
Speaker 3: Some of the people in the room just get up
Speaker 3: and leave. They don't want to spend that money, but
Speaker 3: others start pulling out check books and scribbling away, hoping
Speaker 3: for a chance to be the one to sit on
Speaker 3: a yacht. Soon the ones surrounded by hot babes. Tom
Speaker 3: Voo's sister gives you the signal and you bring the
Speaker 3: music and lights back up. People line up at tables
Speaker 3: along the side of the room, waiting to hand over
Speaker 3: fifteen hundred dollars in exchange for the dream. You fold
Speaker 3: up the pamphlet and set it next to the audio
Speaker 3: mixer on the table in front of you. No such
Speaker 3: thing as easy money, you think, wow, So sarin yea.
Speaker 3: For those who put in fifteen hundred dollars for the class,
Speaker 3: they were met with another offer. First thing in the morning,
Speaker 3: Tom would ask if anyone had sixteen thousand dollars cash available,
Speaker 3: And I feel like if you did, you wouldn't be
Speaker 3: in the class. But whatever, So if people did have
Speaker 3: sixteen grand, they'd be taken into another room, and that
Speaker 3: money could pay for a five day class. A class.
Speaker 2: You don't even get a property. I thought you were
Speaker 2: getting like like a foreclosed property for that.
Speaker 3: No, the class, they're like the class. We'll give it
Speaker 3: to you for fifteen hundred dollars. You sign up now,
Speaker 3: we'll give you a one thousand dollars discount for signing
Speaker 3: up immediately. So from the Orlando Sentinel quote, Hello, darling,
Speaker 3: he says, extending a limp hand and demure smile. Would
Speaker 3: you like some tea? Tom Voo stands in a hallway
Speaker 3: of a downtown Orlando Ratison, looking slight and mildly stooped shouldered,
Speaker 3: far from the cocky, champagne swilling playboy he seems on
Speaker 3: his late night TV infomercials. He wears a black pinstriped suit,
Speaker 3: a red silk tie, burgundy wing tip loafers, and a
Speaker 3: thin air of distraction. Dude, the Orlando Sentinel is like
Speaker 3: hitting it out of the park with this writing. So
Speaker 3: why would anyone pay that much for a class?
Speaker 2: I have no, they're a sucker.
Speaker 3: Well, part of the pitch is that the fifteen thousand's
Speaker 3: going to get you a financial backer. Tom, So you're
Speaker 3: buying in and if students, if they found a good property,
Speaker 3: one that was basically ready to flip, Tom would buy
Speaker 3: the property and then when he sold it for a profit,
Speaker 3: he'd split that profit with student. Basically kind of like
Speaker 3: a find a San Diego real estate agent named Kathleen Smith.
Speaker 3: She fell for it quote. That's the primary reason I
Speaker 3: signed up. I was told in no uncertain terms that
Speaker 3: VU was looking for regional partners. Among students who took
Speaker 3: his five day class, they could be set up with
Speaker 3: a five hundred thousand dollars line of credit. What do
Speaker 3: you feel like you're buying into that and this isn't it.
Speaker 2: In the eighties eighties, that's a lot of money.
Speaker 3: So these weren't like chilbro classes. They were hellish boiler rooms.
Speaker 3: He'd make people sit through hours and hours of lectures
Speaker 3: on both real estate and self help motivation. The rooms
Speaker 3: were freezing, you know that. They always do that in
Speaker 3: those ballrooms. No meals were served. Yeah, and then if
Speaker 3: you had to go to the bathroom, where's the bagsy?
Speaker 3: Bathroom breaks were like super rushed, highly regulated, like I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: Oh really, yeah, I'd like to see him trash.
Speaker 3: I know, right, I just go to the corner.
Speaker 2: Man, man, that is not a.
Speaker 3: Man, stand up? Okay. So then Tom he makes them
Speaker 3: hit the phones as part of it, so he'd have yeah, well,
Speaker 3: he'd have students like scanning real estate listings and then
Speaker 3: making offers. They had to call local real estate agents
Speaker 3: about bargain properties. And so these are houses where like
Speaker 3: there's been a divorce or someone dull, bankrupt or something,
Speaker 3: or they just couldn't meet the mortgage payments and.
Speaker 2: Turned into a boiler room's island.
Speaker 3: Yes, Tony Martin, ABC, Baby Tony Martin.
Speaker 2: His widows are motivated cellar.
Speaker 3: This is like a Florida real estate agent and a
Speaker 3: marketing director. He told the Orlando Sentinel quote, we always
Speaker 3: knew when there was a seminar in town, there'd be
Speaker 3: a lobby full of students and they'd tie up the
Speaker 3: whole office making absolutely the most unbelievable, ridiculous low ball offers.
Speaker 3: Here's the thing, So Tony has him offering twenty five
Speaker 3: to fifty percent below market value, and they're supposed to
Speaker 3: offer a ten dollars deposit. Yes, ten dollars.
Speaker 2: That's his standard business. That's a signature.
Speaker 3: The law was that agents had to present any and
Speaker 3: all offers received to sellers, no matter how ridiculous. So
Speaker 3: Tony Martin told the Sentinel quote, the agents would scattered
Speaker 3: to the corners of the earth to get away from
Speaker 3: these students. I don't know if a single deal that resulted.
Speaker 3: It was an absolute joke. And so there were times
Speaker 3: when Tom would actually do a deal with students, and
Speaker 3: he did, like maybe one per seminar, and he saw
Speaker 3: it as like doing him a favor and likely like
Speaker 3: making it sort of truthful when he would talk about
Speaker 3: these things being possible. So it wasn't the deal that
Speaker 3: the students thought they were going to get that. No. No,
Speaker 3: So let's say, okay, let's say a student gets a
Speaker 3: deal to buy a seventy five thousand dollars house for
Speaker 3: only fifty thousand.
Speaker 2: Okay, a student gets a deal to buy a seventy
Speaker 2: five thousand dollars house, Right, you're going to do it together.
Speaker 3: Job. So then the student turns around, sells the contract
Speaker 3: to Tom and they get paid two grand for this.
Speaker 3: So Tom flips the house either like rents it out
Speaker 3: or sells it, sells it for seventy five k what
Speaker 3: it's actually worth. Tom has made twenty three thousand dollars
Speaker 3: on this, and the student comes away with just two grand.
Speaker 3: How he's coming up with the two grand instead of
Speaker 3: let's split the profits. It's not split evenly, it's split partially.
Speaker 3: And Tom didn't lead all the courses.
Speaker 2: I didn't imagine he was there at all.
Speaker 3: Well, he would show up late and then he would
Speaker 3: like yam or until super late, like dawn, and the
Speaker 3: people are paying to hear him, so they stick around.
Speaker 3: They're like, he's going to drop the delicious knowledge. He's
Speaker 3: going to say the three words.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the real gold comes at the end, right.
Speaker 3: And they're living on like six hours of.
Speaker 2: Sleep in a week and they're famished.
Speaker 3: Maybe according to the Sentinel quote, they also said instruction
Speaker 3: typically ran toward midnight, when Vu himself would come in
Speaker 3: and lead quote mind training sessions at midnight at midnight.
Speaker 3: To Vu, they were aimed at relaxation so students would
Speaker 3: feel better, learn better, and be driven to succeed. To
Speaker 3: his critics, it was mind control, a way to break
Speaker 3: them down.
Speaker 2: It's cult stuff. That's here. I was about to say,
Speaker 2: that's pure calls out of midnight. Our leader is going
Speaker 2: to come in and he's going to chill all you
Speaker 2: out and give you the magic words.
Speaker 3: Well, and at the end of that absolute terrible week,
Speaker 3: Tom would make another offer. He would tell the students
Speaker 3: that if they invested fifty thousand or like sixty five
Speaker 3: thousand somewhere in there, they could join the quote elite
Speaker 3: inner circle.
Speaker 2: The gold Star Club or what everyone.
Speaker 3: Wants to be in an elite inner circ course, and
Speaker 3: that would let them work directly with Tom like you
Speaker 3: got handshake. But working with Tom directly didn't bring money
Speaker 3: directly or otherwise, of course, so and Tom's advice is
Speaker 3: guidance It sounded really great in the ballroom, but it's
Speaker 3: falling flat in real life.
Speaker 2: It's not working.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 3: I mean, as you said, the low ball offers like
Speaker 3: way below market value or.
Speaker 2: Rejected, but he doesn't have any good stuff.
Speaker 3: No, no, So he's not like the.
Speaker 2: Whole would you have dinner with jay Z? Or would
Speaker 2: you take a million dollars or whatever?
Speaker 3: This is just like would you cleaned jay Z's dishes
Speaker 3: st the restaurant where he was? When the students, when
Speaker 3: they did get someone to bite on the offers, Tom
Speaker 3: would usually pass on the deal. They're like, okay, look
Speaker 3: they said they do this, and so no sale, no
Speaker 3: finder's fee. They finally get one of Tom's old employees
Speaker 3: said quote, he would run from them. He'd avoid the
Speaker 3: five day students at all costs.
Speaker 2: Wow, this guy John, he is your life. You're Tom Vu.
Speaker 2: You're just going around like hustling, and then when people
Speaker 2: actually get your stuff to work, you're like, what do
Speaker 2: we get out of here?
Speaker 3: Yeah? This guy John Reid, he's a real estate investment
Speaker 3: advisor in Danville, California.
Speaker 2: I know where that is.
Speaker 3: He told the La Times. Quote. The main problem with
Speaker 3: the nothing down gurus like Vu is that when you
Speaker 3: buy property with nothing down, the existing debt on the
Speaker 3: property is a tremendous burden. The other problem is that
Speaker 3: it's very hard to do a legitimate nothing down deal
Speaker 3: in a legal and ethical way. You either end up
Speaker 3: taking advantage of an unsophisticated seller or misleading an institutional
Speaker 3: lender by not disclosing that you have no equity in
Speaker 3: the property. Ah, so the whole thing very shady.
Speaker 2: Either you're a huckster or a slumlord.
Speaker 3: Well, it's like all of this training that Tom's giving
Speaker 3: about these press properties, that's not what he's actually doing
Speaker 3: when it comes to real estate. Like he was investing
Speaker 3: in twenty million dollars high rise office buildings, shopping malls,
Speaker 3: that kind of.
Speaker 2: Stuff, of the classic eighty stuff, right, He not.
Speaker 3: None of this fifty grand single family home. He went
Speaker 3: the big stuff where the big money is, and so
Speaker 3: he got his sports cars from those deals, not from
Speaker 3: suburban fixtion.
Speaker 2: He's buying the buildings in downtown Orlando, right.
Speaker 3: And he's making ten million on a deal, not ten thousand.
Speaker 3: So obviously his whole thing, these seminars not sustainable. Let's
Speaker 3: pause for ads and get that bread. Buy some bikinis
Speaker 3: for some smoke shows. When we get back, we'll see
Speaker 3: how things start to crumble, Zaren Elizabeth Tom Vu. He's
Speaker 3: doing big deals. He's making a ton of cash, making
Speaker 3: people believe that their little deals are going to make
Speaker 3: them rich, lying to everybody, and that can only go
Speaker 3: on for so long.
Speaker 2: Yes, he is no longer my man.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 3: So people sink money into this. When it doesn't deliver,
Speaker 3: there's a problem. They get mad.
Speaker 2: I'm kind of wondering if so.
Speaker 3: Paul Divine, an LA public school teacher, he took out
Speaker 3: a fifteen thousand dollars second mortgage to pay for one
Speaker 3: of those five day seminars. Oh god, yeah. According to
Speaker 3: the La Times, quote, Divine said he was unable to
Speaker 3: interest Voo in assisting him in buying any real estate
Speaker 3: during a year long search of potential investments from Los
Speaker 3: Angeles to Nevada. Quote. I made dozens of calls to
Speaker 3: Voo's office, and they would just put me on hold
Speaker 3: or say the property I found wasn't worth acquiring, Divine said.
Speaker 3: Out of forty people in my class, everyone that I
Speaker 3: know that took the core came up with zero properties.
Speaker 2: Forty people fifteen k you get enough time, those things
Speaker 2: are going to suss out.
Speaker 3: Like how do they Well, they start the dupe students,
Speaker 3: they start contacting the law.
Speaker 2: Good.
Speaker 3: So, one student who paid for that fifteen thousand dollars
Speaker 3: seminar wrote to the Florida Attorney General, quote, the Tom
Speaker 3: vous system does not work. I made over two hundred
Speaker 3: offers on properties, some verbal, some on contracts. They clearly
Speaker 3: would not entertain offers as low as I was instructed
Speaker 3: to make. And so like someone with like a bricked
Speaker 3: and faulty cyber truck in their driveway, but still espousing
Speaker 3: their love of Elon Musk. Some students weren't successful, but
Speaker 3: they didn't stop believing in Tom. This guy named Glenn Singers,
Speaker 3: an engineer. He spent eighty eight hundred dollars to attend
Speaker 3: one of Tom's weekend seminars.
Speaker 2: An engineer, an.
Speaker 3: Engineer, and he thought Tom's advice was great. Did he
Speaker 3: make money? No, not really. He did two deals and
Speaker 3: then he had to move into the cheaper apartment and
Speaker 3: go back to like full time work because there just
Speaker 3: wasn't money in what he was doing. Quote. I have
Speaker 3: not made a million dollars, but there are deals out
Speaker 3: there you just have to go out and hustle, said singer.
Speaker 3: Hustle culture the seeds. Yeah, nineteen ninety fourteen students who'd
Speaker 3: paid all that money to become members of the TOMVUU
Speaker 3: elite inner circle. They hired an attorney, Randy Wells. And
Speaker 3: remember Tom said he'd become their financial backer at that level.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly if they why they all wanted.
Speaker 3: They don't have the cash for deals. Fine, well Wells
Speaker 3: wrote Tom a letter saying that he was going to
Speaker 3: sue to get the student's money back. Sue me, sue you, Tom. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Eight days after the letter, Tom had his lawyers file
Speaker 3: a suit asking the US District Court in Orlando to
Speaker 3: declare that he did nothing wrong and he also know
Speaker 3: and he wanted the disgruntled students to cover his attorney's
Speaker 3: fees and court costs. I was like one hundred dollars.
Speaker 2: He's leveraging a lawyer at him exactly, Okay.
Speaker 3: And so it gets settled out of court a couple
Speaker 3: of years later. The reasoning on Tom's part was that
Speaker 3: he needed to put his focus on fighting a civil
Speaker 3: suit that had been filed in California by one of
Speaker 3: his students.
Speaker 2: He knew he didn't get caught there.
Speaker 3: He had his lawyer release this prepared statement where Vu said, quote,
Speaker 3: a smart general does not choose to fight a war
Speaker 3: on two fronts.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, wow, he's quoting smart generals of myth and proverb.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, get off your button to it. That
Speaker 3: California lawsuit Darlene Harra, who a strawberry farmer who lived
Speaker 3: in Castroville, California. Hell yeah, yeah, big up to Castroville.
Speaker 3: So Darlene, she sued Tom, his sister, and three of
Speaker 3: their corporations in financial in federal court. Yes, smile, the
Speaker 3: whole family.
Speaker 2: Was smart to big you know, spread the risk.
Speaker 3: Well, there were allegations of violations of securities laws, fraud,
Speaker 3: falsead tizing, unfair business practices. So Darlene apparently put up
Speaker 3: forty four thousand dollars to learn Tom's secrets. Forty four Yeah,
Speaker 3: this is She's in the elite circle. It's pretty much
Speaker 3: all the money that she and her husband Melvin.
Speaker 2: Had put her hands on.
Speaker 3: She worked the phones in the technique for two months nothing,
Speaker 3: and after a while she started to thinking, maybe I've
Speaker 3: been duped, maybe this plan isn't fool proof, and maybe
Speaker 3: I want to be rich, but it's just not possible.
Speaker 3: So Tom's lawyer responded that maybe you should have worked
Speaker 3: a little harder. Oh yeah, So, according to the lawsuit,
Speaker 3: students were quote subjected to subliminal messages, hypnotists, chanting, and
Speaker 3: various other psychological control methods. Yeah, and other coercive tactics
Speaker 3: associated with brainwashing. Yeah yeah, I'm going to brainwash you
Speaker 3: dummies basically, so pay me to do it to you.
Speaker 3: So Darlene put in forty four k, but she and
Speaker 3: other students were asking for one hundred million dollars in
Speaker 3: compensation on behalf of several thousand investors throughout the country.
Speaker 3: And so Tom's lawyer quotes said that VU never makes
Speaker 3: a no strings promise to back anyone. He partners only
Speaker 3: on the deals he likes. In the three years that
Speaker 3: he's been running five day classes, it turns out that
Speaker 3: he has liked only one, a fact that prospective students
Speaker 3: aren't told. His lawyer said, quote. Students signed a document
Speaker 3: before they paid their money they might do a deal
Speaker 3: with Tom VU, the document stated, but that does not
Speaker 3: constitute a partnership or affiliation. The VU organization reserves the
Speaker 3: right to accept or reject any proposal from you or
Speaker 3: anyone else. So here's the thing. The students did get
Speaker 3: a written guarantee that said that one year after graduation,
Speaker 3: their gross profit for real estate deals would at least
Speaker 3: equal their tuition. And if that didn't happen, Tom VU
Speaker 3: Wealth and Success Institute was going to pay the difference. Oh,
Speaker 3: they have that on paper, and that sounds good. But
Speaker 3: in order to collect, you had to prove that you
Speaker 3: spent ten hours a week on four specific tasks. You
Speaker 3: also had to have at least three written offers accepted
Speaker 3: or rejected by sellers each week.
Speaker 2: Each week, these.
Speaker 3: Offers had to be documented and submitted, and that documentation
Speaker 3: mailed to Tom and it certified registered mail. And after
Speaker 3: the third month, students had to send Tom weekly progress
Speaker 3: reports with all that documentation. They had to do this
Speaker 3: for an entire year. So this is death by paperwork.
Speaker 2: One hun and fifty six.
Speaker 3: There's just noble.
Speaker 2: I've got offers I've got to do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's insane, not going to happen. January nineteen ninety two,
Speaker 3: the Florida Attorney General investigated claims from twenty students. They
Speaker 3: said that he engaged in deceptive trade practices by going
Speaker 3: back on promises to help students invest in real estate
Speaker 3: by becoming their financial partner. The Attorney General also looked
Speaker 3: into whether Tom violated Florida law by failing to register
Speaker 3: his businesses with the state, and then in October of
Speaker 3: that year, Tom was like, I gotta file a lawsuit.
Speaker 3: Let's do this again, Yeah, but this time against Inside Edition.
Speaker 3: Like he wanted seventy million dollars because he said the
Speaker 3: show aired a false story about his real estate seminars
Speaker 3: that messed with his business. He said their piece caused
Speaker 3: him shame and humiliation and.
Speaker 2: So stepped on money.
Speaker 3: Looks like all of these lawsuits, including the investigation by
Speaker 3: the AG and Florida, seemed to have been like settled
Speaker 3: or gone away, and when all was said and done,
Speaker 3: he was never charged with a crime anything. Nope. By
Speaker 3: ninety two, when all the suits went down, Tom and
Speaker 3: his family had forty seven corporations, including tom VU Wealth
Speaker 3: and Success Institute Profits Seminar Incorporated, Tom VO Wealth Creation,
Speaker 3: University Incorporated, Intergalactic Productions, VU International Holdings, Sweetwater Travel, and
Speaker 3: tom VU Worldwide Education. He had a video production house,
Speaker 3: he had a publishing group, and like any good slickster.
Speaker 3: He wasn't attached as a corporate officer for any of
Speaker 3: them go. But he was a philanthropist. He made donations
Speaker 3: to police groups most of the time. He paid for
Speaker 3: bulletproof vests of course, and like paid for a funeral,
Speaker 3: paid an officer's widow the mafia. Yeah, I'm just saying,
Speaker 3: just putting that out there. He donated buildings to the
Speaker 3: Human Crisis Council and like homes for low income housing
Speaker 3: talk Ride. He was big on sponsoring children's charities like
Speaker 3: Save the Children, and I think that was probably close
Speaker 3: to his heart. He could see he.
Speaker 2: Had personal experience.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and but today and some people.
Speaker 2: Really do care even though they don't care in business
Speaker 2: like they can be a very charitable and it'd still
Speaker 2: be an absolute.
Speaker 3: Today continues to live large.
Speaker 2: He's still around, still Tom.
Speaker 3: He retired from real estate and retired from.
Speaker 2: The seven forced out the industry.
Speaker 3: Moved to Las Vegas, naturally, and I thought he was there.
Speaker 3: It was there that he entered a new career. He
Speaker 3: is now a tournament poker player.
Speaker 2: It is either that or crypto.
Speaker 3: To date, who knows.
Speaker 2: He's one way or another. This man is in crypto.
Speaker 3: He wasn't dumb enough to fall for NFTs.
Speaker 2: But he's so in crypto, yeah, and also telling people
Speaker 2: how to own crypto. He's selling. He's not buying crypto,
Speaker 2: he's selling. Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: To date, he's won more than two million dollars in
Speaker 3: poker tournaments.
Speaker 2: Wow, it is he has like two babes next to
Speaker 2: him when he plays poker, where.
Speaker 3: He's just like sitting at the table with like a
Speaker 3: big gulp and just like.
Speaker 2: In his most gentleman playing poker one.
Speaker 3: He won twelve hundred dollars, his most recent one at
Speaker 3: the six hundred dollars No Limit Hold Him Poker News
Speaker 3: Deep Stack Championship during the fifty fifth World Series of
Speaker 3: Poker in twenty twenty four in Las Vegas.
Speaker 2: I know what those words mean, but I have no
Speaker 2: idea what that.
Speaker 3: Neither do I. But twelve hundred dollars. So that's the
Speaker 3: level he's working at right now. I mean. But in
Speaker 3: April of two thousand and six, he finished ninth in
Speaker 3: the Season five World Poker Tour Championship event and he
Speaker 3: won more than two hundred thousand dollars in that one.
Speaker 3: So Tom Voo's still out there. Playing poker, live in
Speaker 3: his best life. He's the embodiment of hustle culture and
Speaker 3: he's a true survivor.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and so he the culture totally.
Speaker 3: He may have been like slick about his seminars and
Speaker 3: taken advantage of people, but you know they were all
Speaker 3: at choice.
Speaker 2: You really going to do that?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 3: I mean they could have walked away at any time,
Speaker 3: just like Tom does now at the tables, knows when
Speaker 3: to hold him, knows when to fold them. But yeah,
Speaker 3: he did take advantage of a lot of people. So Zaren,
Speaker 3: what's your ridiculous takeaway?
Speaker 2: I can never root for these guys because they it's
Speaker 2: the bottom feeding part that I don't respect. I'm like,
Speaker 2: why can't you go and hustle the real wealth. I
Speaker 2: go up there, get you some money from people richer
Speaker 2: than you. Now I'm going to shout your name to
Speaker 2: the stars. Yeah, but if you're going down and taking
Speaker 2: advantage of like widows and single mothers and guys who
Speaker 2: are like hoping this is their one chance leveraging their people.
Speaker 3: In the seminar or the homeowners street.
Speaker 2: Exactly, everybody's getting taken advantage of in this dynamic, and
Speaker 2: I just do not like that. I know, but I
Speaker 2: don't mind a good criminal who's like working like this
Speaker 2: if he would working.
Speaker 3: You know, upstairs, punch up, don't always always punch up.
Speaker 2: What's your ridiculous takeaway, Elizabeth?
Speaker 3: My ridiculous takeaway is that I cannot imagine sitting in
Speaker 3: one of those seminars in the first place, because I
Speaker 3: am so lazy. Second place, I just when he says, oh, okay,
Speaker 3: you've heard me ramble for ninety minutes now fifteen, like
Speaker 3: I'd be one of the ones getting up and walking out.
Speaker 3: But that's just me.
Speaker 2: I gotta know the three words I never found that
Speaker 2: no one ever told you you couldn't find. No one
Speaker 2: ever said. By the way, the three words were this,
Speaker 2: screw him.
Speaker 3: Drink your ovaltine, listen to jazz. That's right, I'll tell
Speaker 3: you what I do. Need a talkback, Dave.
Speaker 6: Oh my god, I like you, Sarah and Elizabeth.
Speaker 7: This is Alison, Lily's mom. You just played our talk
Speaker 7: back about the Cuyahoga River.
Speaker 6: Thank you.
Speaker 7: It brought such joy just to hear us, and even
Speaker 7: more joy when Lily was slightly embarrassed when it was played.
Speaker 7: But hey, I told her, no one knows who you are.
Speaker 7: Side note, just went to a Guardians Indians game and
Speaker 7: it was two dollars beer night.
Speaker 3: Thought of you guys.
Speaker 6: No brawls though, I love it.
Speaker 3: Lily, don't be Barrisley.
Speaker 2: We're here for you, Lily, Lily.
Speaker 3: Your part, your net, You're an honorary intern.
Speaker 2: You're good people.
Speaker 3: I love that. That was a good one. That's it
Speaker 3: for today. You can find us online at Ridiculouscrime dot com.
Speaker 3: We're also on Twitter, Instagram, blue Sky. Just look up
Speaker 3: Ridiculous Crime. Email us at ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com.
Speaker 3: Leave us a talk back on the iheartapp Lily reach Out.
Speaker 3: Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and Zaren Burnett,
Speaker 3: produced and edited by Fizbo King Dave Kusten, starring Aniles
Speaker 3: rutger Is Judah. Research is by Orlando's premier real estate broker,
Speaker 3: Marissa Brown. The theme song is by Tom Vu. Bikini
Speaker 3: models Thomas Lee and Travis Dutton. Host wardrobe is provided
Speaker 3: by Botany five hundred. Guest hair and makeup by Sparkleshot
Speaker 3: and mister Andre. Executive producers are ten Dollars Down, Ben
Speaker 3: Bowlin and twenty thousand dollars under Noel.
Speaker 4: Brown Ridicous Crime, Say It one more Time Ridiquious Crime.
Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio. Four more podcasts
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