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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to sign stuff the production of our heart

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Speaker 1: Radio I'm more a champ and today we're talking about

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Speaker 1: the Artemis Moon Missions. That's the NASA program that's aiming

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Speaker 1: to send humans back to the Moon. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: talk to three scientists work on the program, and I'm

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Speaker 1: going to ask them three questions. Why are we going

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Speaker 1: back to the Moon, What kind of science are we

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Speaker 1: hoping to get out of it, and what's the future

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Speaker 1: of moon exploration. Are we gonna set up camp there

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Speaker 1: or build an observatory for looking at the stars or

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Speaker 1: is it going to be a jumping off point for

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Speaker 1: going to Mars. We're going to cover a lot about

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Speaker 1: going to the Moon, So strap in and get ready

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Speaker 1: to launch as we take another giant leap for humankind

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Speaker 1: the new Artemis Moon Missions. Enjoy. Hey everyone, you might

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Speaker 1: have seen in the news that we're going back to

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Speaker 1: the Moon. Just this week, NASA is scheduled to launch

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Speaker 1: the Artemis two mission, which, for the first time in

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Speaker 1: over fifty years, will send humans to go take a

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Speaker 1: closer look at the Moon. Now, this one is not

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Speaker 1: going to land on the Moon, as we'll explain later,

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Speaker 1: there's a whole series of missions under the Artemis program,

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Speaker 1: and this one is only scheduled to loop around the Moon.

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Speaker 1: It's like the Apollo missions back in the late nineteen sixties,

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Speaker 1: you know, Apollo one, a Polo two, Apollo three, all

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Speaker 1: the way up to Apollo eleven, which was the one

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Speaker 1: that first landed on the Moon. And I say only

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Speaker 1: going to loop around the Moon like it's easy. But

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Speaker 1: clearly it's a huge deal that we're sending people back there.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's literally rocket science. So the big question

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Speaker 1: for me was why are we doing this? It's super cool,

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Speaker 1: but why now? And what are we hoping to get

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Speaker 1: out of it? To answer these questions, I was lucky

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Speaker 1: enough to talk to three NASA scientists who all work

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Speaker 1: on the Artemis program. The first one is doctor Jose Udalo. Well,

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Speaker 1: thank you doctor Rudala for joining us.

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Speaker 2: Thank you Hodi here for having me. So my name

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Speaker 2: is Hose Dalo and I serve in various capacities on

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Speaker 2: the Artemis science team.

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Speaker 1: Can you tell us about what do you do for

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Speaker 1: the Artemist mission.

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Speaker 2: So right now I'm on both the Artemis two operations

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Speaker 2: team and the first Artemist Geology team. I'm helping with

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Speaker 2: defining science objectives and also for executing those objectives during

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Speaker 2: the mission.

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Speaker 1: So we went to the Moon in the late sixties seventies,

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Speaker 1: and then there was a long period where we didn't

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Speaker 1: seem to want to go to the Moon. What do

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Speaker 1: you think has reawakened this interest in the Moon?

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Speaker 2: Oh, that's a great question. I think a couple things.

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Speaker 2: So One, we've reevaluated our knowledge of the Moon in

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Speaker 2: ways that have been enabled by use science technologies since

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Speaker 2: the sixties. You know, we have new insights into things

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Speaker 2: like water that we weren't able to make those insights

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Speaker 2: back in the sixties. I think that's driven a lot

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Speaker 2: of the renewed interest, especially in the polar areas of

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Speaker 2: the Moon. We've got great new data sets from orbiters

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Speaker 2: that have flown around the Moon. Not just the US,

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Speaker 2: but other nations have contributed to the wealth of remotely

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Speaker 2: set data, and so now we have new eyes on

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Speaker 2: the lunar surface. And I think that sort of generated

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Speaker 2: lots of new questions and excitement. Oh and I think

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Speaker 2: another part of it is sort of the pool of

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Speaker 2: space explorers now is a little bit different than it

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Speaker 2: was in the sixties. It is no longer just nation

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Speaker 2: states and it's not the same nation states, you know.

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Speaker 2: So we have companies now that are able to launch

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Speaker 2: and develop their own spacecraft for their own purposes, you know,

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Speaker 2: some commercial, some scientific, and you know, we've got new

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Speaker 2: competitors on the global scene. You know, China is the

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Speaker 2: one everybody talks about. India is another big player in

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Speaker 2: space that's talking about sending crew to the Moon and

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Speaker 2: eventually to Mars. So I think the field is much

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Speaker 2: wider open now than it was in the sixties, huh.

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Speaker 2: And I see that as a good thing. I think

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Speaker 2: the more people go to the Moon, the better. I'll

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Speaker 2: be cheering them all on, no matter which flag they

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Speaker 2: were on their spacesuit.

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Speaker 1: Interesting part of it is looking back at the Moon

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Speaker 1: and learning new things and going like, oh hey, I

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Speaker 1: didn't know about this, Let's take another look at the moon. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And the other part of it is sort of like

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Speaker 1: other people are interested in now going to the Moon,

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Speaker 1: so we should stay ahead a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's always a little bit of competitiveness in human nature, right,

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Speaker 2: but I think if we can harness that to further

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Speaker 2: the scientific and really deeply human ambitions that can be

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Speaker 2: sort of brought out in a positive way. I think

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Speaker 2: that'll be really fabulous.

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Speaker 1: That's great. More science is always good, Yeah, it's a unifier.

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Speaker 1: More a space exploration is always exciting.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: What are some of the things we've learned about the

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Speaker 1: Moon that we didn't know before.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, one of the big things has to do with

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Speaker 2: the water on the moon.

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Speaker 1: Yes, there is water on the Moon. And if you

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Speaker 1: remember from our last episode about asteroids, you'll know that

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Speaker 1: water is hugely important or space travel. You can drink it,

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Speaker 1: you can turn it into oxygen to breathe, you can

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Speaker 1: make rocket fuel out of it, and you can even

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Speaker 1: use it as radiation shielding when you're in space. But

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Speaker 1: for a long time, according to or Udaldo, we didn't

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Speaker 1: think the Moon had any water on it.

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Speaker 2: You know, we go back to the sixties, you know,

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Speaker 2: the few of the Moon coming out of the Apollo

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Speaker 2: samples was the Moon was very dry, which in some

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Speaker 2: ways was surprising given our models for how the Moon formed.

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Speaker 2: Why was this surprising, Well, you might imagine, you know,

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Speaker 2: if you subscribe to the idea that the Moon and

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Speaker 2: the Earth sort of formed close together.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: The current hypothesis is that the early Earth was hit

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Speaker 2: by a large object something the size of Mars, and

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Speaker 2: the results of that collision, that leftover material formed the Moon.

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Speaker 1: And so you might.

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Speaker 2: Imagine that the Moon and the Earth should have some similarities,

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Speaker 2: perhaps in the abundance of water, but if you look

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Speaker 2: at the details of the geochemistry, that doesn't really fit,

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Speaker 2: or at least not as neatly as you might expect. But

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Speaker 2: now we've got sort of new ways of analyzing these

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Speaker 2: samples from Apollo that give us better insights, and so

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Speaker 2: now we have this view that there's probably lots of

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Speaker 2: water on the Moon, some of which was brought to

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Speaker 2: the Moon by asteroids comets impacting, some of which might

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Speaker 2: have been brought out from the interior of the Moon

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Speaker 2: early on in the Moon's history by volcanoes, and some

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Speaker 2: of that water might be delivered to the Moon today,

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Speaker 2: some in the form of little, tiny impacts, but a

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Speaker 2: lot in the form of the solar wind.

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Speaker 1: What okay, when I rewind a little bit, you said

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Speaker 1: that there's water coming to the Moon from the Sun.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the solar wind. So the Sun's constantly sort of

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Speaker 2: bombarding the lunar surface with particles protons, which, if you

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Speaker 2: remember your chemistry, is basically a hydrogen nucleus and hydrogen

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Speaker 2: plus oxygen, and there's plenty of it in the lunar surface,

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Speaker 2: makes water least the building blocks for water.

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Speaker 1: Fascinating. I hadn't thought about it. It's like it's raining

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Speaker 1: water almost from the Sun. Yeah, it's a interesting way

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Speaker 1: to think about it. Yeah, or's training I guess hydrogen

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Speaker 1: braining hydrogen that then gets converted to water on the Moon.

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Speaker 2: Yep. And our understanding of that story, which is so

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Speaker 2: important for understanding the early history there at the Moon.

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Speaker 2: That's really changed a lot since the sixties, and that's

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Speaker 2: driving a lot of what we're doing at the Moon now.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Water is a big motivation for this new

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Speaker 1: push to go back to the Moon. Basically, the scientists

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Speaker 1: have figured out that the Moon is wetter than we thought.

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Speaker 1: They reanalyzed the moon rock samples that Apollo brought back.

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Speaker 1: They found water molecules they hadn't seen before. Also, the

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Speaker 1: satellites we've put around the Moon since then have also

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Speaker 1: seen hints of water and the moondust that's on the surface.

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Speaker 1: But the most tantalizing idea is that there could be

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Speaker 1: huge amounts of water in the north and south poles

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Speaker 1: of the Moon, and there's the possibility that there's water

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Speaker 1: deposits on the poles, right, that's right.

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Speaker 2: What's really interesting about the poles of the Moon is

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Speaker 2: that there are craters that are deep enough at the

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Speaker 2: poles that have never seen sunlight in their interiors. If

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Speaker 2: you are standing at the south pole of the Moon,

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Speaker 2: the sun would be continuously low on the horizon, and

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Speaker 2: that's because the Moon is essentially not tilted in the

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Speaker 2: same way the Earth is relative to the Sun. Right,

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Speaker 2: so the Earth is tilted at twenty three and a

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Speaker 2: half degrees, that's why we have seasons. The Moon's not

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Speaker 2: like that. The Moon is essentially not tilted with respect

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Speaker 2: to the Sun, and so the poles have this strange

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Speaker 2: illumination condition where the sun is barely grazing the horizon.

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Speaker 2: So you can imagine deep enough craters their interiors will

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Speaker 2: never be illuminated, and that makes them very cold. Some

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Speaker 2: of the coldest places that we know of and the

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Speaker 2: whole Solar system, in fact, the known universe, are on

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Speaker 2: the Moon. These shadowed areas, and these permanently shadowed craters

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Speaker 2: have temperatures that are close to absolute zero. It's kind

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Speaker 2: of like in your freezer, right, you have like ice

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Speaker 2: that builds up on the walls of your freezer. That's

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Speaker 2: why you get to frost your refrigerator right now.

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Speaker 1: And then uh huh. Any water that is floating around

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Speaker 1: and eventually gets the poles will suddenly freeze into.

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Speaker 2: Spots exactly exactly. So these are cold traps. And so

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Speaker 2: the idea is that some of these craters might have

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Speaker 2: ancient ice, you know that maybe it was delivered early

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Speaker 2: on in the Moon's history by impacts or by volcanoes.

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Speaker 2: So there's a whole history there to understand as well.

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Speaker 1: Wow, there could be a whole ice skating rinks in

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Speaker 1: the poles of the Moon.

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Speaker 2: Potentially that would be a great thing, wouldn't it. Right,

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Speaker 2: you have like the Winter Olympics on the Moon.

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Speaker 1: Someday they could do not a triple LUTs, but like

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Speaker 1: a quint triple lutz exactly.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure curling on the Moon would be really popular too.

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Speaker 1: Oh even slower, yeah, exactly, even less exciting perhaps. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The thing with the ice though, we're not sure what

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Speaker 2: form it has, so it could be you know, sheets

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Speaker 2: of that are interlayered with the lunar soil. It could

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Speaker 2: be just ice disseminated throughout the soil, kind of like

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Speaker 2: it is in perma frost here on Earth. It could

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Speaker 2: be veins. We're not sure what format has. That's one

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Speaker 2: of the things we'll find out, hopefully when we have

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Speaker 2: astronauts and robots on the Moon in the South Pole

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Speaker 2: in the coming years.

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Speaker 1: Yes, you heard that right. There aren't going to be

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Speaker 1: people and robots and maybe also cars and a moon

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Speaker 1: base on the Moon in the coming years. There's even

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Speaker 1: plans for a moon delivery service. We'll get to that

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Speaker 1: later in the program. But when we come back, we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk to one of the chief scientists of

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Speaker 1: the Artemist mission who's going to step us through the

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Speaker 1: big picture here. Why exactly are we setting up camp

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Speaker 1: on the Moon and what do we hope to gain

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Speaker 1: by actually being there, I mean, besides potentially curling and

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Speaker 1: ice skating in the South Pole. So chill out and

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Speaker 1: stay with us. We'll be right back. Hey, welcome back.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about NASA's Artemis program and why we're going

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Speaker 1: back to the Moon. We just talked about why there's

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Speaker 1: a renewed interest in going back there, and now we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about what science we're hoping to get

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Speaker 1: out of revisiting our closest neighbor to give us an overview.

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Speaker 1: I talked to doctor Renee Weber, one of the chief

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Speaker 1: scientists who works on the mission. So here's my conversation

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Speaker 1: with doctor Weber. Well, thank you, doctor Weber for joining us.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm glad to be here.

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Speaker 1: Can you please tell us what you do? Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I work for NASA at Marshall Space Flight Center, where

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Speaker 4: I am the chief scientist.

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Speaker 1: It's like you have a tribe of scientist there and

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Speaker 1: you're the chief.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. And I'm also a member of the Artemis Internal

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Speaker 4: Science Team, and we're a team of lunar scientists who

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Speaker 4: are helping the agency to define the science objectives and

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Speaker 4: activities that astronauts will do when we return to the Moon.

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Speaker 1: Amazing. Well, today we're trying to learn what the Artemist

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Speaker 1: missions are all about. How would you describe the overall

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Speaker 1: objective of the Artemist missions? What's the big picture? Plant?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So you know, NASA's mission as an agency is

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Speaker 4: to explore the unknown, to go places that we haven't

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Speaker 4: gone before, to make new discoveries, to share those discoveries

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Speaker 4: with the world, to inspire people and you know, the

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Speaker 4: Moon is sort of a distant frontier and it really

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Speaker 4: touches on that exploration craving that I guess all humans have,

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Speaker 4: and specifically to go to the Moon. You can sort

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Speaker 4: of think about three big camps of science. The first

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Speaker 4: is actually studying the Moon itself, and the second is

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Speaker 4: using the Moon as a platform to explore other areas.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 4: And the third is doing science that helps us understand

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Speaker 4: how to live and work in that environment, so like

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Speaker 4: a Moon base, and even going farther forward than that,

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Speaker 4: thinking about sending humans to Mars. So understanding how to

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Speaker 4: live and work in space is really really important when

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Speaker 4: you think about expanding that human frontier.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Oh that's amazing. I had I heard it broken

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Speaker 1: down like that. Can we go through them one by one? Yeah? Okay,

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Speaker 1: So the first one you said was to understand the

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Speaker 1: Moon better.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, just to learn about the Moon, how it formed

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Speaker 4: and evolved over time, and in that sense, we can

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Speaker 4: sort of use the Moon as a laboratory for understanding

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Speaker 4: how all planets form and evolve over time.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So the first overall size goal of the Artemis

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Speaker 1: program is to understand more about the Moon, not just

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Speaker 1: about the water on it, like we talked about in

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Speaker 1: the last segment, but also it's geology. This is important because,

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Speaker 1: as it turns out, the Moon has older rocks than

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Speaker 1: the Earth. Even though the Moon and the Earth formed

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Speaker 1: at the same time, the Earth is still hot and

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Speaker 1: so the rocks keep melting and churning and recycling between

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Speaker 1: the crust and the inside of the Earth. But the

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Speaker 1: Moon cooled off faster because it's smaller, and so it's

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Speaker 1: rocks frose in place a long time ago, which lets

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Speaker 1: us look further back in time.

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Speaker 4: Understanding the composition of the materials on the Moon is

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Speaker 4: another way that we can understand planetary processes and how

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Speaker 4: planetary surfaces form and evolve. And that's a big thing

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Speaker 4: that we want astronauts to do when they go to

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Speaker 4: the Moon. We want them to pick up rocks and

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Speaker 4: bring them back so that we can analyze the men

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Speaker 4: laboratories on Earth.

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Speaker 1: And here's another cool thing about understanding the geology of

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Speaker 1: moon rocks. We want to know if we can build

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Speaker 1: things with them.

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Speaker 4: And it's also important for a field of science called

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Speaker 4: in schi resource utilization, which is basically figuring out how

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Speaker 4: to live using the materials that you have where you are,

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Speaker 4: And so can we use the soil on the Moon

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Speaker 4: to create concrete? Can we build structures with it? Can

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Speaker 4: we build roads? Can we build landing pads? Can we

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Speaker 4: you know, use it to shield us against radiation? So

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Speaker 4: those are all things that we would want to go

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Speaker 4: and do geology to understand those.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's fascinating. I hadn't thought about that. Yeah. Can

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Speaker 1: you make roads and houses from moon rocks? Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there are actually some programs here at Marshall looking

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Speaker 4: at a process which is essentially three D printing using

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Speaker 4: lunar materials.

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Speaker 1: Wow, that would be the ultimate flex. It's like, not

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Speaker 1: only might living in a three D printed house, it's

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Speaker 1: on the Moon. Okay. So that's signs goal number one,

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Speaker 1: which is doing signs about the Moon. It's water, it's rocks,

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Speaker 1: it's history signs. Goals number two and number three are

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Speaker 1: even cooler. Number two is to use the Moon as

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Speaker 1: a testing ground for learning how to live in another planet.

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Speaker 4: The science of using the Moon as a platform is

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Speaker 4: particularly interesting because the Moon's environment is so unique compared

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Speaker 4: to Earth, and it's also what makes it a challenge

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Speaker 4: to be there. Yeah, so there's no atmosphere on the Moon,

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Speaker 4: So figuring out how to build a suit that will

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Speaker 4: sustain you for short visits, all the way up to

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Speaker 4: how do you build a habitat that will sustain you

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Speaker 4: for long visits, and then how do we grow plants?

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Speaker 4: And sort of like the practical things having to do

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Speaker 4: with just being there. It's just trying to understand the

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Speaker 4: lunar environment basically what hazards are there. There are moonquakes

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Speaker 4: really yeah, they're not the same as earthquakes. They don't

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Speaker 4: occur for the same reasons, but they do occur, and

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Speaker 4: so understanding how, why, when, how often, how big you know,

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Speaker 4: could a moonquake knock a building down for example? Those

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Speaker 4: are questions that we need to answer. The radiation environment

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Speaker 4: is another big one. The surface of the Moon is

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Speaker 4: just getting blasted with that all the time, and so

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Speaker 4: it is a kind of more dangerous environment if you're

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Speaker 4: going there to spend a long time, and so if

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Speaker 4: you want to build a habitat, it needs to be

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Speaker 4: able to protect you from that radiation.

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Speaker 1: So I think you're saying that this is sort of

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Speaker 1: like a practice run to going to Mars or to

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Speaker 1: going to other planets. Just like how do we study

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Speaker 1: an environment and learn to live there.

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Speaker 4: Right. Yeah, Like I said, it's more about testing the

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Speaker 4: systems and the technologies than it is for being a

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Speaker 4: physical waypoint. So I don't think, at least in the

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Speaker 4: near term, we're not going to be launching off from

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Speaker 4: the Moon to go to Mars. We're going to launch

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Speaker 4: from Earth to go to Mars. But understanding the space

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Speaker 4: environment and building systems that are robust to the space

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Speaker 4: environment is something that we can apply to other planets.

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Speaker 1: Okay, And the last scientific goal of the Artemis missions

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Speaker 1: is so basically turned the Moon into a really cool

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Speaker 1: science lab.

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Speaker 4: So the science objectives, the last one was about taking

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Speaker 4: advantage of the unique lunar environment to do science that

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Speaker 4: we can't do on Earth. And so we can do

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Speaker 4: a lot of really cool material science research, So things

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Speaker 4: like growing crystals or creating microfilament, those types of materials

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Speaker 4: behave much differently in microgravity than they do in Earth gravity.

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Speaker 4: The other ones are growing plants or any kind of

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Speaker 4: biological experiment, which could include looking at human cells and

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Speaker 4: how they react to the lunar environment, doing things that

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Speaker 4: are beneficial for human health.

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Speaker 1: I see.

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Speaker 4: And then also okay, if you're in an exploration atmosphere, right,

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Speaker 4: it's likely going to be different than just the ambient

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Speaker 4: Earth atmosphere, and materials can behave differently in those environments.

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Speaker 4: So understanding the flammability of materials or how how plastics

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Speaker 4: can degrade over time, those are going to be different

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Speaker 4: on the Moon than they're going to be on Earth.

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Speaker 1: REALI, is there any special consideration that you have to

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Speaker 1: take into account for when doing experiments on the Moon?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so the experiments themselves, you know, the hardware or

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Speaker 4: whatever the instrument is needs to be designed with dust

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Speaker 4: in mind. So you're walking around on the Moon, You're

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Speaker 4: going to get some dust on you. It's inevitable. And

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Speaker 4: so you know, they're looking at different ways of how

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Speaker 4: can we get the dust off of us before we

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Speaker 4: go back inside our fancy spaceship that we want to

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Speaker 4: keep clean.

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Speaker 1: A simple floor MAT's not going to cut it. Nope,

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Speaker 1: it's like particle number one, wipe your feet before you

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Speaker 1: enter the lunar capsule. Yes, So those are the main

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Speaker 1: scientific goals of going back to the Moon, and they

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Speaker 1: are pretty ambitious, which brings us to the next big question,

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Speaker 1: what is all of this going to look like in

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Speaker 1: the future? Are we really going to set up moon

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Speaker 1: bases and live there. How do you bring stuff there

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Speaker 1: and back? And more importantly, can you still get Amazon

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Speaker 1: delivery on the Moon? Well, believe it or not, NASA

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Speaker 1: actually has a plan for that. When we come back,

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about all of these things. So stay with us.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back. Hey, welcome back. We're talking to

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Speaker 1: scientists who work on the new Artemis program to take

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Speaker 1: astronauts back to the Moon. The last time you sent

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Speaker 1: people there was in the Apollo missions in the late

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixties and early seventies. Now you might be wondering

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Speaker 1: what are we doing differently this time, and what's the

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Speaker 1: long term plan for this? Are we actually going to

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Speaker 1: set up camp at the Moon? To step us through

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Speaker 1: these questions, I talked to doctor Marie Henderson, one of

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Speaker 1: the deputy lunar science leads for Artemis too. Thank you,

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Speaker 1: doctor Henderson for joining us.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me. I'm doctor Marie Henderson.

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Speaker 3: I am a planetary scientist who specializes in lunar science

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Speaker 3: and lunar volcanology, and I work at NASA Goddard Sweet

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Speaker 3: Flight Center and also the University of Maryland, Baltimore County amazing.

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Speaker 1: So there's no word for someone who just studies the moon.

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Speaker 3: So there's so many different ways to say the moon.

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Speaker 3: So you could be a lunar geologist, there could be

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Speaker 3: someone who's a lunar spectroscopist. We sort of keep it

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Speaker 3: sort of broad.

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Speaker 1: I see, So there's many flavors of lunatics.

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Speaker 5: Yes, Benny, all right, Well, I guess to start us off,

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Speaker 5: what's different about how we're going to the Moon this time, Like,

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Speaker 5: why can't we just blow off the cob webs from

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Speaker 5: the Apollo missions, you know, dust of off and do again.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, technology has changed significantly since the Apollo.

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Speaker 3: The computing power during the Apollo program. I've heard inside

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Speaker 3: the lunar module is less than what's in our cell phone.

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Speaker 3: And so there's a lot of things that we're able

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Speaker 3: to expand upon and also change as we go forward.

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Speaker 3: And so it's not just brushing the dust off, but

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Speaker 3: we're also creating off lan for going back to the Moon,

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Speaker 3: because we're not just hoping to go for one off missions.

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Speaker 3: We are also hoping to go and potentially stay for

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Speaker 3: longer periods of time, And along with that, science is

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Speaker 3: also playing a much larger role in this round of

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Speaker 3: going back to the Moon. During the Apollo program, it

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Speaker 3: was focused on getting humans onto the surface of the Moon,

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Speaker 3: and over the past fifty years, lunar science has really

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Speaker 3: expanded with our more detailed time to study it, and

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Speaker 3: so we are going to be able to go to

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Speaker 3: much more interesting areas of the Moon and places that

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Speaker 3: are also more difficult to land.

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Speaker 1: We're going to go to different places in the Moon.

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Speaker 1: Mm hm oh.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So during the Apollo most of where we landed were

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Speaker 3: equatorial regions, so they were well lit, good for communication.

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Speaker 3: And as we've been able to expand our knowledge, that

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Speaker 3: allows us to go somewhere, you know, to the South

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Speaker 3: Pole the Moon that has a more extreme lighting conditions

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Speaker 3: and also a very different terrain.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow. Is there a bucket list of places to

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Speaker 1: visit for the Moon.

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Speaker 3: I think if you talk to every lunar signed as,

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Speaker 3: they have their own bucket list.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Right now, for the first landed missions, it's been narrowed

438
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,560
Speaker 3: down to I think it's like thirteen or fourteen landing

439
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,160
Speaker 3: regions in the South Pole, and within that there are

440
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,080
Speaker 3: still many different sites available.

441
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,439
Speaker 1: Oh wow, and you mention we're going to land on

442
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 1: the far side of the Moon also, Oh no.

443
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 3: Just the South Pole, okay for now, but eventually it

444
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 3: would be amazing to land on the far side of

445
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:48,200
Speaker 3: the Moon.

446
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,040
Speaker 1: I see. There's no Pink Floyd concert plan for the other.

447
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:53,439
Speaker 3: Side of the Moon, unfortunately not.

448
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:57,960
Speaker 1: And you said there's been a lot of obviously changes

449
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 1: in technology since the Apollo mission. What is all this

450
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 1: technology going to give us this time we're out.

451
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we're going to be able to start to

452
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 3: really choreograph a lot of different scientific operations and also

453
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 3: thinking about how we communicate, being able to potentially send

454
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,639
Speaker 3: images back from you know, multiple cameras on the lunar surface,

455
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 3: so like different ways to be able to send back

456
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 3: data in real time. And we see those videos that

457
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 3: are sort of grainy from the Apollo program, and that's

458
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,120
Speaker 3: one of the things we're really going to be able

459
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 3: to expand on as we continue to Artemiss is taking

460
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:34,919
Speaker 3: the entire world with us as we go back to

461
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 3: the Moon.

462
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 1: Oh that's awesome. Are we going to be able to

463
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 1: like face time with the astronauts kind of the idea?

464
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:41,160
Speaker 3: I hope.

465
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 1: So now, according to doctor Henderson, these upgrades in how

466
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 1: we can talk to the astronauts as they go to

467
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 1: the Moon is important because even though we have high

468
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: definition cameras, there's nothing quite like what a person can see.

469
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 3: A lot of their training goes into telling us what

470
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:02,919
Speaker 3: they are seeing. So they'll be hooked up to a

471
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 3: computer sort of like we both die right now, and

472
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 3: making a recording of what they are seeing. And even

473
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 3: though we have had orbiters around the Moon for a

474
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 3: long time, the human eyeballs connected to a human brain

475
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 3: is a really impressive system and it can pick up

476
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 3: different nuances that not always orbiters can pick up. And

477
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 3: so we're looking for those, like differences in color across

478
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:33,439
Speaker 3: the surface. How do surfaces change, especially with changing lighting conditions.

479
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 3: That's something we need a human to do.

480
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 1: Oh wow, Like it helps to be there, I know

481
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 1: it really does.

482
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 3: I'm very jealous but also very.

483
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 1: Exciting for them. And so what will you be doing

484
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,159
Speaker 1: in mission control? You'll be wearing the headphones, you'll be

485
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 1: in front of the screen. What's your world there?

486
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,159
Speaker 3: So I'm actually one of the science leaves and also

487
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 3: the Science Evaluation room, and so this is the room

488
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,159
Speaker 3: where we're going to be building the plan for what

489
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 3: the astronauts will be looking at during this mission and

490
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 3: then evaluating the data that comes down amazing.

491
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 1: That sounds super exciting. Is that a high pressure situation

492
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 1: or are you.

493
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 3: We've been training a lot, so we've gone and helped

494
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 3: prepare the crew for what they're going to see and

495
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 3: how they're going to describe it.

496
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 1: It's the most important job to remind them to hit

497
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 1: the record button.

498
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 3: That is definitely. They know the importance of how their

499
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 3: words may tell us more things than they may even

500
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:29,719
Speaker 3: realize they're telling us. And so every little details something

501
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 3: they may describe could actually be that sort of epiphany

502
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 3: or that light bulb moment that could really help us.

503
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 3: And so we're really excited to hear their perspectives and

504
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 3: the fact that there are multiple sets of eyes looking

505
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 3: at the Moon.

506
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,639
Speaker 1: Wow, that's fascinating. And I heard also that part of

507
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,120
Speaker 1: the Artemis program is to establish kind of a long

508
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 1: term presence on the Moon. Can you tell us a

509
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 1: little bit about that.

510
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, So the goal is to continue to potentially build

511
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 3: a Moon base and sort of the longer that you

512
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 3: can stay and learn in a space environment, it helps

513
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 3: us to prepare to go explore other places in our

514
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 3: Solar system.

515
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,439
Speaker 1: And this is where we get to the future of

516
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 1: the artemis missions as it happens. Right as we were

517
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: making this episode, NASA made a big announcement about what

518
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 1: the long term goals are. Here's how doctor Rutalo describes it.

519
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 2: Actually, just in the last couple of hours, there's a

520
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 2: big thing happening Washington, d C. Today where the NASA

521
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 2: administrator is outlining sort of the vision for the Artemist program,

522
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 2: and one of the ambitions is to land landers at

523
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 2: the Moon at a monthly cadence in the next few years. Wow,

524
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 2: that blows me away.

525
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: That's super exciting, Like everyone will be sending rockets and landers.

526
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,880
Speaker 2: And exactly you know, if that pans out, we'll have

527
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:56,199
Speaker 2: you know, monthly delivery of robots with science instruments to

528
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 2: the Moon. That's just fantastic.

529
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,199
Speaker 1: That's incredible. And I read the it's going to be

530
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,479
Speaker 1: partially private, Like it's not just NASA, it's maybe private

531
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,360
Speaker 1: contractors making these landers and robots. It is.

532
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 2: That's something that's quite different with space exploration today compared

533
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 2: to you know, back in the Apollo era. Private companies

534
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,879
Speaker 2: now are really important players, and NASA is seeing that

535
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 2: as a benefit. You know, we've got all these companies

536
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 2: like Blue Origin and SpaceX and there's others that are

537
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 2: going to be providing launch and landing services, you know.

538
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 2: So it's almost like you know, buying like a service

539
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 2: to do like a lunar delivery. NASA has this program

540
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 2: called CLIPS Commercial Lunar Payloads Services. So this is a

541
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 2: program where NASA is essentially buying lander services from private companies.

542
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 2: So these companies build their own landers, they secure sort

543
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 2: of a launch on a rocket, you know, SpaceX or

544
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 2: Blue Origin or what have you, and those landers will

545
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 2: carry payloads to the Moon. And those payloads could include

546
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 2: NASA instruments, but these landers could be carrying other stuff,

547
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 2: you know, for company, some company wants to test some

548
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 2: technology on the lunar surface and they can sort of

549
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 2: buy room on that lander to send their technology.

550
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: I see, like established kind of infrastructure.

551
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 2: Yes, infrastructure, and just sort of economic motivations for doing this,

552
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 2: beyond science and beyond the other motivations that have taken

553
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 2: us as far as we are now.

554
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 1: So like if you're on the Moon, you can go

555
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: on Amazon dot com and order I don't know what

556
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: would you need on the.

557
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 2: Moon, Oh, stuff that you can't find in seech you. Yeah,

558
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 2: I mean it would not surprise me that someday we'll

559
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 2: have Amazon deliveries on the lunar surface.

560
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 1: Wow, that's pretty I guess that's kind of the dream, right, absolutely.

561
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what a sustained lunar presence I think will

562
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 2: look like.

563
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: And that's kind of the dream of the Artemis program

564
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 1: to make going to the Moon as easy and common

565
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: as calling an Uber or scheduling an Amazon delivery, and

566
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 1: so we can do awesome signs about how the Earth

567
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: wares and what it takes to live in space and

568
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 1: other planets. Okay, I just had one more question for

569
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: our scientists, which was would they go to the moon? Okay,

570
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: last question. Doctor. If NASA said we need you to

571
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: go to the Moon tomorrow and live there, would you

572
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 1: go oh?

573
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 2: Absolutely and heartbeat.

574
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: Absolutely okay, yeah, no second thought, no, no second thought,

575
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 1: you're going I would go, Yeah, but this is to

576
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 1: move to the Moon and live there. I would you

577
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 1: would do it? I would yeah, amazing. What would you

578
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 1: bring with you?

579
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 2: Oh? Well, I'm a geologist, so I would probably bring

580
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 2: my rock hammer along. I'm sure there's some of those

581
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 2: beautiful vistas that haven't been seen yet and that's because

582
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 2: they're on the Moon, and I'd love to be able

583
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 2: to see that firsthand.

584
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: If NASA called you today and said, doctor Weber, we

585
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 1: need you to be on the next slide out to

586
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 1: the Moon, would you go.

587
00:30:55,720 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 4: I don't think so. I really like Earth. Earth is

588
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 4: my favorite planet. But you know, one of the visions

589
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 4: that I've had in my head ever since I was

590
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 4: a kid was making Star Trek be real, making there

591
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 4: be people living and working in space.

592
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know.

593
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 4: I'm happy to help enable that from the comfort and

594
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 4: safety of our home planet.

595
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: Last question, So in the movie Hell Mary, they asked

596
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 1: scientists working on the mission at the last minute to

597
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: join the mission. Doctor Henderson, if NASA said right now

598
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: we needed to go to the Moon on the next rocket,

599
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 1: would you go, Oh?

600
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I would be so ready. Just drab me in,

601
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 3: put me in, coach. I'm here.

602
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: What would it mean to you if to go and

603
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 1: see the Moon closer with your own eyes?

604
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 3: It would just it takes it out of your own head.

605
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,719
Speaker 3: It's almost like every single night you look up at

606
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 3: the Moon and you see it. And I've spent so

607
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 3: much in my life thinking about the Moon, but to

608
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 3: actually have it turned from something that I I've only

609
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 3: seen really in like two dimensions to actually something to

610
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 3: be a part of in like a three dimensional space.

611
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 3: It would just blow my mind and I would probably

612
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 3: have eight thousand more questions in my head than I

613
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 3: already have right now. And you can leave me there

614
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 3: for a while because I've got a lot of The

615
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 3: moon was always the goal for me, and I'm so

616
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 3: fortunate to be a part of the generation that gets

617
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 3: to do this again.

618
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 1: Oh that's amazing. Hey. The launch for the Artemis two

619
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 1: mission scheduled for this week, and it's programmed to be

620
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: live streamed on NASA TV and several other platforms like

621
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 1: Netflix in Amazon Prime, so be sure to check it out.

622
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 1: A big thanks to the scientist we spoke to today

623
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: and to NASA for helping make it happen. Thanks for

624
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: joining us. See you next time you've been listening to

625
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 1: science stuff. Production of iHeartRadio written and produced by me

626
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 1: Or hitch Ham, edited by Rose Seguda, executive producer Jerry Rowland,

627
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Speaker 1: and audio engineer and mixer Ksey Pegram and you can

628
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Speaker 1: follow me on social media. Just search for PhD Comics

629
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630
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631
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Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts, and please tell your

632
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Speaker 1: friends we'll be back next Wednesday with another episode. Hey,

633
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634
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635
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Speaker 1: Thanks a lot,