WEBVTT - Dwight Gooden 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:11.360 This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing, 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:19.759 my guest. Dwight Gooden is known especially to baseball fans 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:24.280 as the once brilliant nineteen year old pitching phenom from Tampa, Florida. 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:28.960 He had a blistering fastball and a notoriously deceptive curveball. 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:32.800 Those two pitches earned him the Rookie of the Year 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:36.199 award in nineteen eighty four. In eighty five, he won 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:39.160 the Cy Young In eighty six, he led the Mets 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:41.960 to one of their best seasons ever, ending with a 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:46.519 World Series championship. Gooden had some winning seasons after that, 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:51.159 but nothing matched those first three years. Instead, his public 0:00:51.200 --> 0:00:54.640 battles with alcohol and cocaine became the dominant story of 0:00:54.680 --> 0:00:58.200 his career, leading sports historians to write about what might 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:01.800 have been rather than what was. At the very least, 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:05.080 Dwight Gooden's addiction ruined what should have been the greatest 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:09.199 day of his life, the six World Series win. After 0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:12.479 the game was over, I'm celebrating the clubhouse with my teammates. 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:14.600 Then I going to bake in the trainer's room. I 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:17.120 called my dad. We talked about the game, and he's happy. 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:19.160 And we're celebrating, and then the night call went right 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:22.280 to my friend who knew the dealer. When my friend 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:23.920 was the go to guy, told him I was coming 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:26.120 by the later and my goal was to go by there, 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:28.920 get some drugs, and meet my teammates at local bar 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:33.000 after that. But unfortunately, you know, Dick don't don't allow that, right, 0:01:33.040 --> 0:01:35.800 So your friend, a friend that you knew, called the 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:37.360 dealer for you to tee up the ball for you 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:40.320 to go score. Well, what it was is, um, I 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:43.840 wanted a lot of stuff. I wanted to party and celebrate. Unfortunately, 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:46.120 go to the house and projects in Long Island with 0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:48.640 the dealer, with the dealer. So I'm in there. What 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:51.400 about ten people I probably know too. That's the friends 0:01:51.400 --> 0:01:54.480 from Tampa and the dealer. So we're sitting there partying, 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:56.920 having good time, and now I'm thinking I'll be here 0:01:56.920 --> 0:01:58.640 for maybe an hour of them to cut out. But 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:01.240 once those rails hit the mirror, Yeah, once you started, 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:03.760 once you start, yeah, it's cryptonite. That was always my 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:05.360 track record. I'm just going to do a little bit. 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:08.840 Then three days later you're doing the same thing. Dwight 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:11.960 Gooden has been sober since two thousand eleven when he 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:15.080 went on celebrity rehab. And he has just written a 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:19.640 deeply personal book entitled Duck, a Memoir, which chronicles everything 0:02:19.880 --> 0:02:23.320 from his complicated relationship with his father to his meteoric 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:26.399 rise and his drug use and the toll that took 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:30.560 on him. You come from an error when uh, drugs 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:35.400 predominate as much as alcohol or alcohol is one drug 0:02:35.440 --> 0:02:38.000 on a menu of drugs, because alcohol certainly is a drug, 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:40.760 as you would you acknowledge that, as you say, I 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:42.880 called a definite drug. And the error I was in 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:46.360 what like you say, um before me was heavy drinking, 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:48.560 you know in the seventies where have you? And probably 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:52.200 pot from right here Meyer is basically you know, cocaine 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:55.480 and drinking. The alcohol is available and every club house 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:57.360 you go to, whether it's on the road or at home, 0:02:57.840 --> 0:02:59.720 and even at home. And when you say alcohol was 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:01.520 a very but what was the kind of culture of that? 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:05.200 Meaning when the game was over all professional ball players 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:08.600 and management and coaching kind of acknowledged that when the 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:10.280 games over we we we gave it our best for 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:12.359 Pro Bowl players and we've earned a drink and everybody 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:13.880 has a drink. So they had a full bar there. Yeah, 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:16.040 pretty much as normal, Like you go into the lounge 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:17.919 where you have the food, you have the water and drinks, 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:19.640 and then you got the beer and then the private 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:22.080 stats and the back with the hard stuff. Especially like 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:23.959 at the day game, was staying because we want a 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:25.760 way to put the traffic down and we just sit 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:28.720 around talking baseball, talking about the games, and just drinking. 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:31.440 You started your professional career when you were how old 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:36.320 professional drafted a seventeen, played a year and a half 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:39.040 in the Monitors. It's amazing that nine team. And what 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:42.200 was amazing was at the game. If we're on the road, 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:44.080 there was always one of the veteran players say Docu 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:46.280 pitching tomorrow. If I said no, it's okay, y'reat with us. 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:48.680 And I remembers one time I did a commercial Pepsi 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:52.200 commercial with Catfish Hunter, and so they started playing commercial. 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:53.960 When in Chicago at the day game, we go to 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:56.640 this bar and the commercial comes on and the bartowners 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:58.880 looking at the commercially looking at me, looking at the commercial. 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:00.720 I think it goes I don't think you don't have 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:04.200 to be in here, you know, so he sounds funny. 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:05.960 You could hanging out here, but I can't start any more. 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:08.520 One are the traps of famous. Everybody knows who you are, 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:11.120 and they know who you are on every level. But 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:13.800 so when you're nineteen years old, even when you get 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:16.200 drafted at seventeen. But I would imagine I've got to 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:17.839 believe that even when you were in Triple A and 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:19.400 you were up in them, when the miners and you 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:22.120 were seventeen, they protected you more. They shielded you from 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:23.920 certain things more. Were you sticking your hand into a 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:25.360 cooler and pulling a beer out of there too when 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:29.440 you were seventeen, Definitely pulling out. Once you're in that league, 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:31.240 once you're in with that group of people, you're one 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:32.840 of them, and you act like them on every level, 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:36.039 at every level. You know, myself, I was a paper pleaser, 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:38.960 so people pleaser, just trying to fit in. You got 0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:41.839 new teammates, you know, guys says out of college or 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:44.040 been in the monors for a while, but here you're 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:46.599 out of high school. A lot of times, like again, 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:48.920 alcohol in the clubhouse was available so at the game, 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:51.279 so I was just like, you started drinking now you 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:53.160 had you been drinking on the streets of Florida when 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:54.919 you were hanging out in those neighborhoods you grew up 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:56.360 with your mom and dad. A lot of times I 0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:58.640 got in high school, I got there at a football game, 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:00.240 you know, on Friday night, at the game is over. 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:01.640 We had this piece of place we'll go to and 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:03.440 hang out and guys will have drinks, and I would 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:05.520 be a part of that. You would, yes, So it's 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:08.640 not like the kid who's on the mound when you're 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:11.000 pitching as a little boy, as you describe in the book, 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:13.960 and your dad's teaching the underage kid how to throw 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:17.120 the curveball. You started throwing the curba when you were 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:21.640 seven years old, correct. Your dad taught you, against the 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:23.800 advice of some people maybe you were too young. Your 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:26.680 dad taught you had to throw the curveball. And then, 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:28.360 and I think it's safe to say, I mean, I'm 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:30.600 only being half cute when I say this. Your first 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:33.880 addiction was throwing the curveball, wasn't it. Oh definitely exactly. 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:37.040 That's where it all started addiction. And I want used 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:38.320 to Once you learned it through the curb ball, you 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:40.160 couldn't stop stop you want to do it. And I 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:41.719 think a lot of times, like you said, now, kids 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:43.680 are told not to throw a curveball to get an 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:46.839 eighteen years on thirteen or fourteen. It's just my opinion. 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:48.760 I don't think that's the wrong with the kids on 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:50.800 the curb ball said ten leven. I wouldn't recommend thoring 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:53.320 tenor leaving curve balls a game, But if the mechanics 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:54.600 are right, if you got your arm in the right 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:56.720 position to throw it, you know, two or three game. 0:05:56.760 --> 0:06:00.479 I don't think we hurt. But that kid who when 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:04.320 someone would get a hit off you when you didn't perform, well, 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:06.560 you admit in the book, and you got very upset. 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:09.120 You cracked up a few times. You get really emotional. 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:12.320 You're a boy who's learning how to handle this stress 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:15.520 and handle this pressure. When does that kid pick up 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:18.640 his first drink? When does that kid start in that? 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:21.440 You watched your family go through that. Yeah, actually, um, 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:24.159 I found out later in my recovery that my dad 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:27.040 was actually alcoholic at the time. Grew up in Alice. 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:29.039 Just think it's the normal thing guys do. They come 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:31.039 home from work, they eat dinner, they sit, you know, 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:33.600 watch a game, and they have some beers. So basically, 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:36.640 my first separate alcohol was probably about ten eleven years old, 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:38.440 I took a sip with my dad's beer when he 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:41.120 wasn't watching, when he wasn't watching, wasn't watching, and unfortunately 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:43.560 I like to taste. I remember four or five months 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:45.720 later after that, we had a family picnic and they 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:47.560 had a cooler beer. That made a buddy of mine 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:49.000 just jumped in a cool and drunken beer. And that's 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:51.520 the first time my mom jumped me because I was 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:54.039 pretty wasted from the one beer that Now, now, when 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:57.040 you did you either of your parents your dad, If 0:06:57.080 --> 0:06:59.520 I read the book correctly, your dad cared about you 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:04.080 a great and he invested very heavily in your playing ball. 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:06.880 So was he on you. But the drug and alcohol thing, 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:08.440 was he riding you about that? You know? It was 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:10.080 amazing The first time I know, I really hurt my 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:12.800 dad was. My mom was more a vocal about that. 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:16.320 My dad was. He always participated in my baseball games 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:18.760 at an early age, as well as my school activities. 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:22.080 I remember in the first time I tested positive, I 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:23.920 had to come home and tell my parents I was 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:26.960 going to treatment. My mom was like, Okay, that's good son, 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:29.080 I can get the help you need. My dad just 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:32.200 kind of dropped his head never said a word. That 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:34.160 probably hurt me more knowing that I hurt him by 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:36.360 him not saying anything I'd rather for him. And that 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:38.800 was how he expressed his deepest disappointment. But he didn't 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:40.480 say anything, Well, he didn't saything. I'd rather for him 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:42.520 to say, you know, sonya loser or whatever. I just 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:44.920 wanted something, but he never did, never said one word. 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:46.640 So you go from stick in your hands in a 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:49.640 cooler at a family event and then you're sticking your 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:52.800 hand in a cooler in the Triple A ball there 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:55.320 in the minors when you're playing for what world organization 0:07:55.360 --> 0:07:57.680 where you drafted you? Yeah, I was drafted by the 0:07:57.680 --> 0:07:59.680 mess You were in tide Water. No. Actually my first 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:01.840 year when I got drafted, I went to Kingsport, Tennessee, 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:03.760 which is working ball. Towood was the Triple A. I 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:05.560 end up going there my second year for the playoffs 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:08.440 in the Roal series. And so describe what happens when 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:10.720 you're gonna go into the big leagues. I'll tell you 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:12.760 what was amazing. While I was in Triple A. David 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:15.320 Johnson was the manager and I pitched well for him 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:17.000 in the playoffs. From the Triple A Roural Series, and 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:19.960 he said, where my manage nature, You're on the team 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:22.240 that winner he got the job, really manager, So just 0:08:22.320 --> 0:08:23.960 jokingly I called him and I said, David, very much. 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:25.640 You told me, you said, I don't worry about it. 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:26.800 You come in to the spring training, you're gonna be 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:29.000 on the team. About two weeks for spring training and started, 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:31.080 I get a call because I wentn't at that time 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:32.760 you had to have three years in the minors before 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:35.040 you get put on the roster. Only had one year 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:36.880 and a half. So I get the call, You're coming 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:39.320 to Pickley camp as a non roster player. So the 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:41.840 whole while doing spring training, the front office kept said 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:43.320 we was going to send him to double A, maybe 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:45.600 triple A. But then David coming to me and say, 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:47.280 don't worry about it, You're gonna make the team. How 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:49.480 do they do that? Well, three years in the minors 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:51.840 is recommended, or it's a rule. It's it's a rule 0:08:51.880 --> 0:08:53.400 for its being on the roster. But you can had 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:55.080 a guy at this first year before he's ready, but 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:57.680 you don't technically have to. But after three years in 0:08:57.720 --> 0:08:59.520 the matters, you gotta put the gall on your roster. 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:01.760 You gotta put him through waivers where any team can 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:05.280 claim like guy. So the last game of spring training, 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:08.520 we're playing in St. Petersburg and after the game, we're 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:11.120 flying out to Cincinnati. Just started the season. So I 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:13.760 didn't want to bring my bags into the clubhouse, you know, 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:16.200 to take with me because I hadn't officially heard anything. 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:18.400 So I kept on bags in the car just in case. 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:21.079 So about the fifth in and of the last spring 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:23.240 training game, David Johnson comes there and he shakes my 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:25.840 hands the congratulations you made the team, and I'm like wow. 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:27.480 And at that point, I mean, you got this great 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:30.120 feeling that you're living in your childhood dream. But part 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:32.199 of me is thinking, man, if I'm really ready for this, 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:35.200 you know, I'm only nineteen. I remember calling my dad 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:37.040 told I made the team and just hearing the joy 0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:39.680 because my dad he didn't really show any you know, 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:42.600 you couldn't tell you a very quiet guy, laid back 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:44.640 and you didn't know, he never showed any emotions. But 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:47.080 that day he was showed some with motion over the phone, 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:49.040 and we enjoyed that. So you go to New York 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:50.880 win what month of what the year? We had to 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:53.400 New York. We actually we opened up in Cincinnati, which 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:54.960 was great for me because I grew up in Cincinat 0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:57.200 a rich fan because growing up in Tampa has spring 0:09:57.240 --> 0:09:59.200 training down there in the seventies. So we played in 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:02.400 Cincinnati and get my first start in Houston and old Astrodome. 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:05.000 My parents did watching the game, I get that win 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:08.559 was great and the first game one, yes, nineteen years old, 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:10.720 ninete years old. How many strikeouts you? I think I 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:15.720 had five? You know what people remember remember keeping these 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:17.560 athletes like I think I hate the ball he took 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:19.400 to God was like, I think I double bogie that 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:22.680 whole back in nineteen and sev Remember after that game, 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:25.000 my dad said, how do you feel? I say, I 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:27.160 feel good. I should win a lot of games my 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:29.679 very next start as in Chicago, We're gonna feel I 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:31.160 don't get a third in it. I mean I get 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:34.280 just shell. So now my dad says, well son, what 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:35.960 do you think? Now, I'm saying, I don't know if 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:38.600 I'm ready. Just from two stars you go back and fourth. 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:41.160 So it was just amazing. It's two extremes. How many 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:42.760 games did you pitch the first season when you win 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:45.080 the first season? I think I had about thirty two starts. 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:48.400 He had thirty two starts, so they were all in 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:50.640 on you. They wanted you. It was there, definitely, you 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:52.080 were you were in the rotation. Yeah, I was in 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:54.800 the rotation. I got a seventeen wins, seventeen and nine, 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:57.240 made the All Star team. My first year led the 0:10:57.280 --> 0:10:59.719 league in strikeouts, and it was amazing because as you 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:02.240 met and when when I first got there, it wasn't 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:04.200 too much of expectations, but after the All Star break, 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:06.400 there was a lot of expectations. It was more seats, 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:08.040 I mean more fans in the seats to the days 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:11.959 I would pitch. It was more media. At that time, 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:13.720 I felt great, you know, because I think at you 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:16.520 high it did, and then when you're off, you want 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:19.960 to maintain that high. How do you do that? Well? 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:22.079 My first year, like you said, it was definitely a 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:24.199 drawing and rush. Having all the fans they're training for you, 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:26.600 and you're striking out the winning and you're winning. It 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:28.840 was no better feeling than that. And plus at my age, 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:30.640 you're having fun. You pitched against a lot of guys 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:33.600 you analyzed just a year prior to that, and then 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:36.320 in the next year, I have an even better year. 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:39.040 I have a career year, and you know, you go 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:40.920 out there, it's almost like, Ben, did you do differently 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:43.360 the second year? We're just more confident. It was more confident, 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:46.440 more like I had another year experience on my belt. 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:48.360 And not that I was cocky, but I had a 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:50.800 lot of confidence. And Garrett Carter came over that year. 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:53.520 He was All star catcher for me, which is a 0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:56.000 big plus for me. What did Carter bring for you 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:58.400 as a catcher that helped you? I think the way 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:00.520 he communicated with me, he didn't want to just win. 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:03.199 He wanted to dominate and me even though I want 0:12:03.240 --> 0:12:04.880 to dominate, but like say if I was winning a 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:08.160 game to nothing and then or fifteen nothing and I 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:09.960 started just messing around with pitches, he will come out 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:11.679 there and get in my face that you know I 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:14.080 don't like, No, let's just stick this guys. Stick what 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:16.679 you know, Let's totally dominate these guys. So when you're 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:20.440 facing a batter, have you pre assessed before a game 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:22.400 every single battery you're gonna face in that game that 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:24.520 they was I only had two pitches, fastball and curbs. 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:26.040 A lot of times they're like, this guy is a 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:28.679 great fastball hitter. And came through the guy curball for strikes, 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:31.440 and I'm thinking, why shouldn't be pitching? I'm done, you know. 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:33.600 But basically I always pitched to my strength and make 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:35.760 the hitter suggests and a lot of times what I 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:37.760 would do. Also, I should like to watch the box scores, 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:39.920 Like if I knew I was gonna face the Cardinals, 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:42.280 say three days from now, I'll start watching the box 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:44.520 scores and who's hot, who's doing what a couple of 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:46.360 days before that, so I have an idea which guy 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:49.240 swinging the bat? World? So if you have I'm not 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:51.600 a baseball player. I love going to the ball game. 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:53.760 I love watching a baseball game live. It's a great treat. 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:56.480 So you're standing there and you're at the top of 0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:59.160 your game. Now you're twenties years old. During your second season, 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:01.199 you're more confident, and you look at in your mind 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:03.520 and imaginary strikes on the knees to the shoulders. You 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:08.440 got the home plate there in those four corners high 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:11.120 and tight, high and outside, low and tight low and outside. 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:13.400 Could you basically throw the ball in the festival anywhere 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:14.559 you want it. You can make it go where you 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:17.680 wanted to go. Five where I out five. It was 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:22.000 like from the first game to the pick your spot, 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:23.640 I was just right there and they have to think 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:25.960 about it. Everything just came and the bull would go 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:27.920 where you basically go right there. I would saying how 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:33.320 many I wasn't even where from to ninety Who's the 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:36.079 fastest picture in baseball that you know? Right now? Who 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:38.360 who was at that time? I was? Any time? Who's 0:13:38.360 --> 0:13:40.400 been the fastest? I think Nolan Ryan? What do you 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:44.240 supposedly they say top out of one on three? Now 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:46.080 you see these guys doing a hundred ninety nine. But 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:48.280 also you have to remember all the new stadium, they 0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:50.560 got the radar guns and there they turned out like 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:53.200 three or four miles hour faster, just for the fans 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:56.480 and the unfortunately found out the hard way. I went 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:58.559 to Cleveland towards end of my career, and when I 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:00.800 left the Yankees in ninety seven, I probably stopping out 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:03.199 maybe ninety two n three. So I go to Cleveland 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:05.600 and pitching at home in the game, the clock's got 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:07.959 me at ninety six seven, I'm thinking, wow, my fastball, 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:11.480 I'm back. Unfortunately, three What did I have for breakfast today? 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:13.840 Write it down? Ready to go? Unfortunately, three innings later, 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:16.240 you know I have given on seven runs, four home runs, 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:18.600 who knows how many heads. So now when I get 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:20.560 knocked out of the game, I going room with the 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:23.320 guy that keeps the video and I'm looking at my 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:25.120 chart and seeing who did what? And did I see 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:29.000 like eighty seven eighty nine? And I'm actually, what is 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:31.480 these numbers here? Is that's your philosophy? I said, out there, 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:33.400 have me throwing ninety seven? He said no, No No, I 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:35.000 was tarted up for the fans. So I found out 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:37.240 the heart way a little bit of show business. Yea. 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:39.360 So now when you see all these guys storing ninety 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:43.320 eight and comedy the feeling. So when you're out there 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:45.560 when you're younger, give me an example of a batter 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:47.760 that always vexed you, that really just drove you crazy. 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:50.000 Chili David's hands down when it was with the Semco 0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:52.480 Giant sells the mens. Yeah, it didn't matter if I 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:53.920 was on top of my game and not. He would 0:14:53.920 --> 0:14:56.440 get hits off me. And what do you attribute that too? 0:14:56.720 --> 0:14:58.200 I think it was just the way you're both built. 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:00.440 I think what he was built to hit your ball. Yeah, 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:02.280 I think the way he was he wasn't like um 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:04.320 intimidated by because a couple of times I threw in 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:06.480 his head to try to intimidate him. It didn't matter. 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:08.440 He just was staying. If I didn't have my good stuff, 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:10.040 he was hitting home runs. If I had good stuff, 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:11.600 he was getting bags sits. So when you go high 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:13.320 and type, you do it to intimidate them. Most of 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:15.400 times it's just you're not doing brush them back right. 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:16.960 You don't want to hurt them body or hit him 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:18.960 in the head, but just want to think, to start 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:21.680 thinking and keep them for getting comfortable. But Chilian didn't 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:23.920 phase him. And it is weird because some hitters, when 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:26.560 you talk to him some pictures, they just see the 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:28.320 ball a lot better than other pictures because it's like 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:30.920 guard number five starter, so they couldn't get a hit 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:33.000 off from him. But I'm like the number one starter 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:35.040 and he's just wearing me out. Is I'm real? How 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:38.120 to happen? Sometimes? What was it like for you? I mean, obviously, 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:43.040 often baseball pictures are not known as great hitters. Is 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:45.520 it just because the way they're they're muscular, sure, and 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:47.840 their whole physiognomy is such way, they just don't swing 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:50.160 about the same way. No, you'd imagine that a picture 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:53.000 and just in terms of mechanics, would be a very 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:55.840 good hitter. Well, most pictures, like in a little league, 0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:58.600 in high school or college's great hitters. But what happens 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:00.440 when you get drafted as a picture. You don't get 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:01.920 the work on it no more. They don't care how 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:03.920 you hit right and when you're throwing the ball, ball 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:05.440 work on your button. So if he was in the 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:08.640 mount of actually for five years, well, picking up a 0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:10.720 bat you just lose a little bit. But I was 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:12.680 fortunate that I had eight home runs in my career, 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:14.160 which I was very proud of, and I want a 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:16.240 several Suggles Award that's like the best in Picture for 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:17.880 that year. So I got that. I just take a 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:20.240 lot of pride in my hitting as well. Well. Now, 0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:24.080 I don't want to be too reductive about the state 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:28.440 of Florida, but Florida back then, in the eighties and nineties, 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:32.480 Florida was to cocaine what Detroit is to cars, you know. 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:34.280 I mean there was a lot of drugs down there, 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:38.000 and in the Miami Vice era, so to speak. When 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:39.480 you went to cocaine, when you were down there before 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:41.760 you came up here, not no. I Um, what was 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:44.080 your introduction to cocaine? My induction in cocaine? What was 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:46.720 your drug of choice? Correct? Yes, my induxtter cocaine was 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:48.840 Actually I had a cousin who was a dialer and 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:51.920 he also was a pimp. So I was going to 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:54.680