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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,

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Speaker 2: let's get to the show. We're very excited to be

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Speaker 2: joined by Robert Francis Kennedy Junior. He is a author,

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Speaker 2: an activist, and a presidential candidate. Sir, thank you so

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Speaker 2: much for joining us. We really appreciate it. Thanks for

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Speaker 2: having me absolutely pleasure. So one of our goals here, sir,

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Speaker 2: is we know you've been doing quite a bit of interviews.

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Speaker 2: We would like to treat you seriously as a presidential candidate.

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Speaker 2: We want to get to some things which we haven't

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Speaker 2: seen you touch on before. We know some of the

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Speaker 2: issues that animate you the most. We will leave those

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Speaker 2: to decide. We want to make sure that we get

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Speaker 2: as much ground as possible. So our first question is

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Speaker 2: actually a very basic one. Why do you think that

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Speaker 2: you should be president?

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, I'm running because I'm disturbed about the

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Speaker 4: direction our country is going in not only our country,

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Speaker 4: but are my political party.

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Speaker 5: And it really culminated during the.

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Speaker 4: My unease with what's happening culminated during the pandemic when

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Speaker 4: I saw all of this kind of almost like an

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Speaker 4: orchestrated assault on the Bill of Rights, that suddenly it

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Speaker 4: was okay to sensor speech, particularly criticism of the government,

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Speaker 4: which has always been the purview of American citizenship. And

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Speaker 4: then they went after freedom of worship. They closed every

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Speaker 4: church in our country for a year with no scientific excitation,

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Speaker 4: oh democratic process, no notice in comment, rulemaking. They went

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Speaker 4: after jury trials so that we can no longer which

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Speaker 4: are guaranteed by the Seventh Amendment in any case or

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Speaker 4: controversy exceeding twenty five dollars. Americans are entitled to jury

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Speaker 4: trials if somebody arms you. But suddenly you couldn't see

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Speaker 4: vaccine companies or pharmaceutical companies or any kind of medical provider,

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Speaker 4: no matter how negligent they were, no matter how reckless

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Speaker 4: their conduct, no matter how grievous your injury. They went

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Speaker 4: after property rights. They closed there's a Fifth Amendment right

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Speaker 4: to due process and just compensation. They closed three point

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Speaker 4: three million businesses with no due process, no just compensation.

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Speaker 4: They went after the Fourth Amendment, you know, the Fourth

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Speaker 4: Amendment right to our prohibition and warrantless surges and seizures

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Speaker 4: was just left by the wayside as we encountered all

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Speaker 4: of these kind of intrusive government mandates where you couldn't

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Speaker 4: essentially leave your home without showing your private medical records, etc.

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Speaker 4: And you know, I personally was subject to a lot

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Speaker 4: of this csorship, but more disturbing mothers who had injured children,

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Speaker 4: people who who said they suffered or felt that they

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Speaker 4: had suffered injuries from the vaccines, Doctors who wanted to

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Speaker 4: provide medical advice on early treatments. We're all banished from

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Speaker 4: the internet. And you know, it started becoming a country

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Speaker 4: that I didn't recognize. My own political party was at

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Speaker 4: the forefront of that, the spirit tip of those moves,

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Speaker 4: and our parties suddenly became the party of censorship, the

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Speaker 4: Party of pharmaceutical companies, the Party of fear, and now

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Speaker 4: the Party of war.

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Speaker 1: So let me let me ask you a little bit

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Speaker 1: about that, because we both watched a lot of interviews

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Speaker 1: of you and you know, both on a general interest

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Speaker 1: but also to prepare for this interview and sitting down

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Speaker 1: with you. And I think some of the key issues

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Speaker 1: that you tend to focus on our COVID, the Ukraine War,

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Speaker 1: and censorship. Those are all issues where you seem to

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Speaker 1: be in basic agreement with the former president Donald Trump.

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Speaker 1: So I'd love for you to lay out what do

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Speaker 1: you see as some of the most critical differences you

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Speaker 1: have with the former president.

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Speaker 4: Well, I have a lot of not only issues differences,

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Speaker 4: but stylistic just did differences. I think my approach to

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Speaker 4: people in politics is very different, I'd say, you know,

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Speaker 4: in terms of the issues, probably the biggest departure is.

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Speaker 5: On the environment.

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Speaker 4: And in fact, you know, my first encounter with Donald

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Speaker 4: Trump is that I sued him twice, you know, in

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Speaker 4: the years before he was president.

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Speaker 5: To block his.

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Speaker 4: Construction of golf courses to golf courses, which I successfully

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Speaker 4: did in the New York City Watershed. But on all

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Speaker 4: of the you know, environmental issues, I think my worldview

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Speaker 4: is very different than the president's. You know, I'm happy

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Speaker 4: to talk about any of the other issues.

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Speaker 3: What about the current president.

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Speaker 2: So, when you obviously are running against an incumbent president.

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Speaker 2: I was thinking a little bit about your father. He

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Speaker 2: decided to run in nineteen sixty eighty. So you wanted

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Speaker 2: to save the party from LBJ from the chaos of Vietnam.

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Speaker 2: You're running against an incumbent president as well. Is there

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Speaker 2: a similarity there? Like, what do you want to save

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Speaker 2: America from Joe Biden from what exactly was?

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, the Forever Wars, you know, which which

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Speaker 4: was a really kind of a Republican issue, and it's

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Speaker 4: it's flipped. You know, there are many I think there

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Speaker 4: are many more Republicans who are skeptical about this war.

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Speaker 4: We should be making peace around the world. We should

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Speaker 4: be projecting economic power rather than military power, the same

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Speaker 4: way that the Chinese and you know, instead we you know,

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Speaker 4: the war is now our major industry, and weapons are

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Speaker 4: one of our largest exports. And that's you know, I mean,

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Speaker 4: that's the that's the inverse of everything that America was

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Speaker 4: supposed to represent the world. My uncle, President Kennedy said

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Speaker 4: when he was asked by one of his best friends,

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Speaker 4: one of his two best friends, Ben Bradley, who is

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Speaker 4: the publisher of The Washington Post, asked him what he

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Speaker 4: wanted on his gravestone, and he said he kept the peace.

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Speaker 4: And when he when Bradley asked him about that, he said,

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Speaker 4: he said he felt that the principal job of a

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Speaker 4: president was to keep the country out of war. My

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Speaker 4: uncle had been in World War Two, He lost his

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Speaker 4: brother in World War two. His father was adamantly against,

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Speaker 4: had opposed World War One as ambassador in England. He

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Speaker 4: had tried to keep the country out of a war.

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Speaker 4: And this is before we knew about Hitler's atrocities. You know,

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Speaker 4: the final solution didn't begin until forty three. But my

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Speaker 4: you know, my grandfather believed that the best strategy for

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Speaker 4: the United States. There's a famous historian called Paul Kennedy

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Speaker 4: who's no relationship to me. He's a Yale history and

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Speaker 4: he did this very influence and show a book on

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Speaker 4: the declines of Empires. And he went through all of

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Speaker 4: the empires in the last five hundred years and shows

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Speaker 4: that each one of them destroyed itself, cannibalized itself by

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Speaker 4: overextending its military abroad. And my grandfather knew that my

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Speaker 4: grandfather nine kids, he could not bear. He could not

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Speaker 4: conceive of an issue that would be worth the sacrifice

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Speaker 4: of his child, now my own son thought in the

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Speaker 4: in the Ukraine War, in the Kurgave Offensive, he joined,

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Speaker 4: he joined without telling us. He went over to the Ukraine,

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Speaker 4: joined the Foreign Legion, and he fought as a machine

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Speaker 4: gunner for a special forces unit.

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Speaker 5: But I can't.

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Speaker 4: Conceive the you know, the the grief that I would

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Speaker 4: feel if I lost my son in that conflict. And

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Speaker 4: there are three hundred thousand Ukrainian parents who have lost

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Speaker 4: their children, and maybe as many as seventy or eighty

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Speaker 4: thousand Russian parents, which is something that I don't think

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Speaker 4: we should be happy about that we should be celebrating.

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Speaker 4: And the war is bad for us from a geopolitical standpoint.

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Speaker 4: We shouldn't be pushing Russia and China together.

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Speaker 5: And it's.

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Speaker 4: You know, and we went to that war for the

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Speaker 4: right reasons, out of compassion for the you know, the

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Speaker 4: best of American character and virtues, and compassion for the

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Speaker 4: Ukrainian people who were victimized by any illegal and brutal

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Speaker 4: war invasion by the Russians. But it's ceased at some

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Speaker 4: point being a humanitarian mission, and it became an agenda,

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Speaker 4: a geopolitical agenda to exhaust Russia to do regime change

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Speaker 4: with Vladimir Putin, which is the opposite of humanitarian impuls.

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Speaker 1: And they've been out out front, you know, up front

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Speaker 1: of about that. At times they've admitted that it's the goal.

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Speaker 1: One quibal with you. I just I've seen you mentioned

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Speaker 1: this three hundred thousand Ukrainian deaths number a couple of

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Speaker 1: times and I wasn't able to find Can you tell

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Speaker 1: us where's that number come from?

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Speaker 4: That was I forget the name of that. It's the

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Speaker 4: commander of the Ukrainian Forest and it was in his

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Speaker 4: conversation with the NATO commander, okay, which was publicized because

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Speaker 4: in the leak documents it was alway, that's correct, okay,

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Speaker 4: but I will I will provide you with as sid.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd love to see because we looked beforehand and

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Speaker 1: wasn't weren't able to see that the different numbers in

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Speaker 1: the league documents. We just want to be accurate.

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Speaker 5: Well, let me know, I'll get I'll get you that today.

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Speaker 1: That'd be great, sure. So Day one agenda, what are

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Speaker 1: the priorities?

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Speaker 4: The priorities on A one will be partnering Julian Assange

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Speaker 4: and UH and and then starting to fix an IH FDA, CDC,

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Speaker 4: you know, get them off of the you know, their

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Speaker 4: subsistence relationship with the pharmaceutical industry and unraveling that agency capture,

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Speaker 4: putting the right people in that agency who know how

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Speaker 4: to do that.

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Speaker 1: And is that just a matter of different personnel or

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Speaker 1: do you need to have a public option for pharmaceutical companies?

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Speaker 1: Do you need to nationalize the pharmaceutical industry? What does

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Speaker 1: that Actually?

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Speaker 5: No, I don't think that's the right thing.

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Speaker 4: I think we need to get pharmaceutical money out of

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Speaker 4: the regulatory agencies. An IH personnel should not be able

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Speaker 4: to collect royalties on pharmaceutical products that they worked on,

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Speaker 4: which they can do today. An ihe has evolved from

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Speaker 4: being a from being a research agency that's supposed to

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Speaker 4: be improving American health and instead it's become an incubator

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Speaker 4: for pharmaceutical product. So they a developed you know, initial

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Speaker 4: pharmaceutical products in their lab and then they farm that

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Speaker 4: product out to a university and they give the universities

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Speaker 4: hundreds of millions of dollars and to go through phase

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Speaker 4: one and phase two trials, and then they bring in

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Speaker 4: a pharmaceutical company if they if the drug works, which

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Speaker 4: they almost always do because they can make them look

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Speaker 4: like they work. And then they bring in a pharmaceutical

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Speaker 4: company to do the phase three, which is very very expensive,

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Speaker 4: may cost a billion dollars. And along the way, everybody

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Speaker 4: gets a piece of the patent, so ANIH gets a

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Speaker 4: piece of pattern. For example, NIH owns half the MODERNA patten.

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Speaker 4: And you know, there's been billions and billions of dollars

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Speaker 4: maybe one hundred billion so far on that platform and

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Speaker 4: on that mRNA platform that NIH develop and NIH stands

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Speaker 4: to collect half of that money. Not only that, but

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Speaker 4: individuals within NIH, you know, the deputies of Anthony Fauci

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Speaker 4: have margin rights on that patent, so they can collect

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Speaker 4: one hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year for life,

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Speaker 4: and then their children and so on as long as

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Speaker 4: that product's being sold. And what that means is that

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Speaker 4: the regulatory function of the agency is subsumed by these,

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Speaker 4: you know, the mercantile ambitions of these regulators who are

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Speaker 4: no longer regulators.

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Speaker 1: Isn't the isn't the profit motive though at the core

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Speaker 1: of that problem, because the problem you're describing isn't unique

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Speaker 1: to FDA and IH, et cetera. You can go down.

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Speaker 1: I know you would talk about the EPA, you probably

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Speaker 1: have direct experience there as an environmental lawyer. But you

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Speaker 1: can go down the list of these agencies and you

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Speaker 1: see the way the revolving door works. You see the

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Speaker 1: way that there's a lot of industry capture because ultimately,

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Speaker 1: you know, we have a health insurance industry and a

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Speaker 1: hospital industry and a pharmaceutical industry that has the bottom

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Speaker 1: line is the bottom line? Isn't that really the root

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Speaker 1: of the problem here?

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Speaker 5: Well, me and him in nature.

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Speaker 1: I mean the profit motive, I mean putting the product motive.

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Speaker 5: Of the problem.

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Speaker 4: The private motive is human nature. So you know, in

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Speaker 4: a democracy, the challenge is how do you insulate public

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Speaker 4: institutions right from the human impulse for greed and acquisition,

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Speaker 4: you know, acquisitiveness. And that's really to me, that's the

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Speaker 4: solution is you get the money. You know, half of

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Speaker 4: it of FDA's budget, almost half of FDAH budget comes

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Speaker 4: from pharma, and so you know, they're not really working

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Speaker 4: for the public interests, they're working for the pharmaceutical companies.

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Speaker 4: CDC buys about five billion dollars worth of vaccines a

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Speaker 4: year from pharmaceutical industries and secret deals with you know,

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Speaker 4: that are sweetheart deals that benefit those companies. A product

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Speaker 4: that CDC has has previously approved and mandated effectively, and

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Speaker 4: then CDC then is under a you know, under pressure

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Speaker 4: and to make sure everybody takes those products and to

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Speaker 4: not find problems with those products. If problems arise, you

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Speaker 4: want the regulator to be the first.

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Speaker 5: One to notice.

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Speaker 4: And so we have we have a system that is

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Speaker 4: that is being corroded by conflicts of interest.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and some of these issues.

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Speaker 4: We want to remove those conflicts of interests as much

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Speaker 4: as you can. You'll never get of all of them,

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Speaker 4: but you want to movement as much. And it's it's

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Speaker 4: really like agency capture on steroids. And because the conflicts

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Speaker 4: are so rife and pervasive.

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Speaker 1: And the US healthcare system is uniquely good in certain

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Speaker 1: respects in terms of advanced treatments, et cetera, but uniquely

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Speaker 1: bad in a lot of other respects in terms of

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Speaker 1: you know, chronic illnesses and the expense. And we pay

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Speaker 1: way more for health care than other developed nations and

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Speaker 1: we get way less. As you know, every other developed

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Speaker 1: nation in the world has universal health care. Do you

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Speaker 1: support universal health care through a medicare for all program

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Speaker 1: or something so man, my.

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Speaker 5: You know, my my.

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Speaker 4: I would say my highest ambition would be to have

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Speaker 4: a single pair program, which you know with a people

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Speaker 4: who want to have private programs can go ahead and

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Speaker 4: do that, but to have a single program that is

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Speaker 4: available to everybody. I don't know how politically realistic that is,

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Speaker 4: but you know, if you ask me if I were

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Speaker 4: designing the system from the beginning, that's what I would do.

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Speaker 4: You're right, the system now is broken. We take you know,

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Speaker 4: we pay the most health care in the world. I

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Speaker 4: think we're seventy ninth. We're behind like cost the Reek

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Speaker 4: and Cuba in terms of health outcomes. We have the

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Speaker 4: highest level of chronic disease in the world of any country.

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Speaker 4: You know that means neurological diseases, autoimmune diseases, allergic diseases

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Speaker 4: like peanut allergies, food allergies, eggs, anaphylaxis, asthma, and and

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Speaker 4: we we pay more than anybody else. We also consume

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Speaker 4: consume more pharmaceutical products.

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Speaker 5: I think we take more.

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Speaker 4: I think we take three to four times as many

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Speaker 4: drugs per capita than Europeans do, and they're not making

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Speaker 4: us healthier. The third largest cause of death in this

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Speaker 4: country after cancer and art attacks and now pharmaceutical drugs.

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Speaker 4: Americans are the sickest country in the world. Is that

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Speaker 4: the sickest generation we've ever had. And we spend four

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Speaker 4: point three trillion dollars on health care every year. Eighty

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Speaker 4: percent of that goes to treating chronic disease. And to me,

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Speaker 4: the worst, you know, the most alarming metric. When I

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Speaker 4: was a boy, six percent of Americans said chronic disease.

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Speaker 5: Today, by two thousand and six.

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Speaker 4: Fifty four percent, and you know, I'm sure it's going

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Speaker 4: up since then. I means, have our children aren't debilitated

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Speaker 4: for life from a chronic disease. And you know, the

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Speaker 4: pharmaceutical industry is making a lot of money on that,

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Speaker 4: selling us the EpiPens, the albuterol and hilers that any

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Speaker 4: seizure medication, the insulin shots and all that, and they're

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Speaker 4: making a killing. They make, you know, half a trillion

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Speaker 4: dollars a year. But it's not good for our country.

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Speaker 4: And what we need is public health agencies that are

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Speaker 4: actually focused on public health of rather than advancing the

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Speaker 4: pharmaceutical paradigm or profits for these pharmaceutical companies.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting to me. I heard you talk a lot

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Speaker 2: about corruption. We were talking here about the profit motive.

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Speaker 2: I was surprised though he did the interview with the

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Speaker 2: all In podcast. I knew that you were against nuclear power,

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Speaker 2: but he's talking with something interesting, saying that we should

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Speaker 2: have effectively a completely free market energy system. And I

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Speaker 2: guess I wanted to talk to, you know, with somebody

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Speaker 2: who's father and uncle famously supported major public initiatives which

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Speaker 2: didn't necessarily pay out, which would yielded massive dividends in

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Speaker 2: the future. Why should nuclear, solar, wind, or any power

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Speaker 2: honestly float outside of public support systems if the overall

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Speaker 2: social benefit of it unlocks economic potential. I'm just curious

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Speaker 2: for the cost.

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Speaker 4: You know, I think the market is the but I mean,

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Speaker 4: here's the thing is in it. We don't have free

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Speaker 4: market capitalism.

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Speaker 3: Let me just say free market energy.

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Speaker 4: No, that's right, you know, we have the energy. The

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Speaker 4: rules that come in the energy industry are written by

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Speaker 4: the incumbents to you know, to UH, to benefit. The

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Speaker 4: dirty is filthy, is most poisonous, most toxic, most warmongering

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Speaker 4: feels from hell rather than the cheap, clean, green, wholesome

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Speaker 4: and UH and you know, efficient feels from habit in.

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Speaker 5: A true free market. True free market promotes efficiency.

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Speaker 4: Efficiency means the elimination of waste, and pollution is waste.

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Speaker 4: In true a true free market would require us to

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Speaker 4: properly value our natural resources, and it is the undervaluation

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Speaker 4: of those resources that causes us to use them wastefully.

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Speaker 4: In a true free market, you can't make yourself rich

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Speaker 4: without making your neighbors rich and without enriching your community.

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Speaker 4: But what polluters do is they make themselves rich by

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Speaker 4: making everybody else poor. Certainly, they raised standards of living

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Speaker 4: for themselves by lowering quality of life for the rest

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Speaker 4: of us. And they do that by escaping the discipline

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Speaker 4: of the free market. You show me a polluter, I'll

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Speaker 4: show you a subsidy. I'll show you a fat cat

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Speaker 4: using political clout to escape the discipline of the free

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Speaker 4: market and force the public to pay his production.

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Speaker 5: Cause that's what all pollution is.

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Speaker 4: When the general la when I you know, when a

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Speaker 4: coal company burns coal at you know, and sells, for example,

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Speaker 4: in North Carolina, sixteen cents of killowhite hour, we have

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Speaker 4: the or two cents in the evening. We have this

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Speaker 4: sense that we're getting the cheapest energy possible, but that

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Speaker 4: coal generation is poisoning every freshwater fish in America with mercury.

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Speaker 4: So they're externalizing that cost, which is a cost on

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Speaker 4: all Americans. They have sterilized every lake on the high

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Speaker 4: peaks of the Appellation from Georgia northern Quebec. That's the

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Speaker 4: cause of coal that they don't tell you about. There's

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Speaker 4: half a trillion dollars here an asthma, TA, expulmonary and

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Speaker 4: respiratory illnesses associated with those on particulars from that those emissions.

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Speaker 4: That's a cost that they should be forced to internalize.

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Speaker 2: I don't think there's any debate here. I'm more focusing

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Speaker 2: on nuclear thinking. I agree with all your criticisms, which

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Speaker 2: is why you know I will believe very much in

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Speaker 2: a nuclear power future. And that's where I was surprised

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Speaker 2: to hear you say that we shouldn't pursue a nuclear

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Speaker 2: future instead go in the direction of wind and solar,

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Speaker 2: where we don't seem to have the same level of

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Speaker 2: renewable energy.

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Speaker 3: Production and actual efficiency.

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Speaker 2: If we look at the way the amount of power

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Speaker 2: that we can get out of these out of these

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Speaker 2: systems when they are properly constructed. I will concede a

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Speaker 2: lot of the problems of the prises.

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Speaker 5: Let me see it, yeah said.

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Speaker 4: The problem with with variable power power like like wind

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Speaker 4: and solar, is not that we don't have the generation.

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Speaker 4: We have enough generation just from wind just in Montana,

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Speaker 4: Texas and North Dakota lone of the North American energy grid,

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Speaker 4: and we could power all of North America with a

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Speaker 4: by putting panels PVC panels on an area seventy five

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Speaker 4: miles by seventy five miles in the desert southwest. The

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Speaker 4: problem is we can't transport the energy.

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Speaker 3: We don't have mind, we don't have battery.

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Speaker 4: Well, let me just get to the new Newke issue.

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Speaker 4: First of all, I don't I think we should continue

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Speaker 4: to explore nuclear power. Okay, but and I'm all for

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Speaker 4: nuclear power. If you can never make it safe, and

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Speaker 4: if vision is not safe, and if it were safe,

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Speaker 4: they wouldn't if they would get an insurance policy, they can't.

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Speaker 4: It's not you know, it's there is not a bunch

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Speaker 4: of hippies and tight T shirts that's saying it's not safe.

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Speaker 4: It's guys in ties and suits from the AIG and

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Speaker 4: Lloyd's of London that says, who are saying, your industry

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Speaker 4: is so risky that we will not even consider writing

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Speaker 4: you an insurance policy. So the nuclear industry had to

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Speaker 4: go to you know, to Washington, to the capitol in

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Speaker 4: the in this sleazy legislative maneuver in the middle of

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Speaker 4: the night and pass the Price Anderson Act, which immunized

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Speaker 4: all these plans from their own accountability. So if the

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Speaker 4: Indian Point power plan blows up and irradiates all of

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Speaker 4: the homes in Westchester County, New York and Connecticut and

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Speaker 4: everybody in New York City, makes New York City unpopulated,

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Speaker 4: unpopulable for the next fifty or sixty.

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Speaker 5: Years, who pays for that?

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Speaker 4: It's not you know, con Edison, It's not the people

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Speaker 4: who run the plant.

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Speaker 5: The plant is insight.

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Speaker 4: It's just like the vaccine companies do not have to

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Speaker 4: pay for the you know, the the consequences of their recklessness.

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Speaker 4: So the company has no real incentive to make it

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Speaker 4: safe because they're not liable for you know, for injuries

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Speaker 4: they caught. So and by the way, if you look

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Speaker 4: at the costs from Fukushima, an Indian Point is still

403
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Speaker 4: leaking trittium every day into the Hudson River, Fukushima. If

404
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Speaker 4: you look at Fukushima, there are you know, anybody can

405
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Speaker 4: go and google the water waste water tanks at Fukushima.

406
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Speaker 4: There's so much radiation going into the Pacific that they

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Speaker 4: now the only way of dealing with it is building

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Speaker 4: water tank after water tank, and they go all the

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Speaker 4: way to the horizon, and you know, and you look

410
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Speaker 4: at what happened at Chernobyl. So but ultimately the ultimate

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Speaker 4: arbiter of risk is the insurance industry, and the insurance

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Speaker 4: industry is saying that in the nuclear industry is to

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Speaker 4: do is too risky for us to ensure? Now is

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Speaker 4: it economic?

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Speaker 5: No?

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Speaker 4: The last I think two plants built. One of them

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Speaker 4: caused nine nine billion dollars per giguad, the other causes

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Speaker 4: sixteen billion per gaguay. The solar plant caused one billion

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Speaker 4: a gigawa and then you get free fuel forever, so

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Speaker 4: the wind in the sund are free. A wind plant

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Speaker 4: costs about one point one two billion a gigaway, So

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Speaker 4: a NWD plant is fifteen times.

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Speaker 5: What a wind solar planta.

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Speaker 4: And the new plant people say, well, it's variable out,

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Speaker 4: it very very powerable power.

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Speaker 5: You're not getting the power all the time. The same

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Speaker 5: with a nude plant. The NW plant have outages all

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Speaker 5: the time.

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Speaker 3: Well, they want to run ninety one.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to spend too much time here necessarily

431
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Speaker 2: going through this because okay, well but I.

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Speaker 3: Understand, I understand your objection.

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Speaker 4: Let me just say one other cause. What the big

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Speaker 4: cause is storing the waste, which has to be stored

435
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Speaker 4: for thirty thousand years, which is five times the length

436
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Speaker 4: of recorded human history. If you at the internally and

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Speaker 4: there's no utility on Earth today, will build a nuclear

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Speaker 4: power plant unless it essentially is fully subsidized as subsidation.

439
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 4: And I don't think that's you know, good to allocate

440
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 4: public resources.

441
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 1: One says, part of part of the argument in favor

442
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 1: of nuclear energy that even a lot of environmental activists

443
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 1: have come around to at this moment is that the

444
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 1: potential consequences of climate change are so dire that even

445
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 1: though they recognize some of the risks and the problems,

446
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 1: especially the you know, what do you do with the

447
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 1: waste issue that you're pointing to here, the thought is, okay,

448
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 1: but this is the tech we have, and climate change

449
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 1: has these dire consequences already we're already living through. So

450
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,119
Speaker 1: what I want to hear from you is, you know,

451
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 1: what is your view of the climate crisis, and what

452
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: is your view of Joe Biden's reaction to that crisis.

453
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,439
Speaker 1: Do you think he's done too much, too little, or

454
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 1: he's been about right now?

455
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 4: Well, let me you know, let me just comment on

456
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 4: your first question. If I'm not saying that we shouldn't

457
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 4: spend money to a you know, climate or you know,

458
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 4: to have a cleaner air, why wouldn't you take the

459
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 4: cheapest way of doing that?

460
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 1: You know?

461
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 4: And so how do energy promised us at the outset

462
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 4: that they were going to be too cheap to meet

463
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 4: or this is what they've been saying for sixty years, right,

464
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 4: and instead they've given us the most expensive way to

465
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 4: boil a pot of water that has ever been devised

466
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 4: by humanity.

467
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 5: Why would you have.

468
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,919
Speaker 4: The most expensive solution when there's cheaper solutions for our

469
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 4: cheaper solution?

470
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 1: What do you think of Joe Biden with the so

471
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 1: called Inflation Reduction Act. There have been a lot of

472
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 1: subsidies put into the solar and wind in particular to

473
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 1: try to move towards the clean energy future. Do you

474
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:00,880
Speaker 1: think he's done enough. Do you think he's done too much?

475
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: What do you make of it?

476
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 4: You know, the problem is I think that you know,

477
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 4: energy ought to be able to stand on its own.

478
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:12,439
Speaker 4: It's okay for a nation to subsidize a new end

479
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 4: industry for national security reasons or to or to to

480
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 4: greenhouse and industry that you want to you know that

481
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 4: you want to have become self sufficient with.

482
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 5: So I think there are there are really good reasons.

483
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 4: To subsidize industries, particularly in their nacent stages, but it

484
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 4: gets more difficult when you're subsidizing mature industries.

485
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 5: The problem with the market is that.

486
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 4: The carbon industry is so heavily subsidized. I think that

487
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 4: I am for the World Bank estimates that these subsidies

488
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 4: to the carbon industry are about five point two trillion

489
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:57,400
Speaker 4: a year globally and uh and so that distorts, That

490
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 4: sends a signal out that distorts the whole market place.

491
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 4: So instead of choosing the cheapest energy, we're now having

492
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,880
Speaker 4: to subsidize the competitors to bring them up to.

493
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 1: The don't disagree with you there, but just I'm trying

494
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 1: to get a sense of I mean, what is your

495
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: view of the climate crisis and what level of investment

496
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 1: is worth, you know, putting in to deal with it.

497
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 1: Do you see it as an existential threat? What is

498
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 1: your view there?

499
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 4: I believe that climate is an existential threat there, but

500
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 4: I don't insist other people believe that. And one of

501
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 4: the problems with the climate crisis, and let me tell

502
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 4: you because on the areas of vaccines and public health

503
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 4: and a lot of environmental issues, I you know, have

504
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 4: made myself an expert the way that attorneys always do

505
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 4: when they're arguing a case. I understand the science. I

506
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 4: can read the science critically. I cannot do that with

507
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 4: climate science. So I'm left kind of taking other people's word,

508
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 4: and I say, most people are in the same situation.

509
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 4: We're all, you know, basically saying, okay, ninety nine percent

510
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 4: of scientists are saying and the public science are saying,

511
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 4: this is, you know, the climate crisis existential and it

512
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 4: is being created by anthropogenic carbon production. I can't independently

513
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 4: verify that. But the reason I believe it because and

514
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 4: I also know, in particularly the past three years, people,

515
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 4: you know, we've seen how science, particularly federally funded science,

516
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 4: can be corrupted. And this is what the critics of

517
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 4: you know, the sort of the Republican right is saying,

518
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 4: we don't believe anything that federal science says anymore. And

519
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 4: I can't go to them like I can with vaccines

520
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 4: or pharmaceuticals or other environmental issues and say you're wrong,

521
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 4: and I can explain to you exactly why you're wrong.

522
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 4: I can't do that, but I have seen in the

523
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 4: nineteenth you know, these documents in nineteen seventy were Exon's

524
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 4: own science. Exon had scientists working for them that prided

525
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 4: themselves on knowing more about the fate of the carbon

526
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 4: molecule and the environment than anybody else, And during that

527
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 4: time in the seventies, they were saying to their bosses

528
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 4: in the Exxon management, if we continue to burn carbon

529
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 4: the way that we are going to warm the globe,

530
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 4: and that actually is going to be a bad thing

531
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 4: for humanity, but it's going to be a great thing

532
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 4: for our company, because we're going to melt the Arctic,

533
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 4: and there's a tremendous amount of oil under the Arctic

534
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 4: and we're.

535
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 5: Going to be able to exploit it.

536
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 4: So you had people who were on the industry side

537
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 4: back in the seventies who were saying this is real.

538
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 4: Now in my campaign, I'm not going to be talking

539
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 4: a lot about climate. Why is that because climate has

540
00:30:52,920 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 4: become a crisis like COVID that the Davos Group and

541
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 4: other totalitarian elements in our society have you to have

542
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 4: used as a pretext for clamping down totalitarian controls.

543
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 1: But isn't that even more of a justification if you

544
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: if you think that is not even more of a

545
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 1: justification for you to argue in favor of an approach

546
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: that doesn't result in the totalitarian.

547
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 4: Exactly so, And I've always said I've always been cautious

548
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 4: about leaning on scientific evidence for climate because the reason

549
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 4: is it's not persuasive to people who don't want to

550
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 4: believe it. I work for commercial fishermen on the Hudson

551
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,479
Speaker 4: River for most of my career and all across the country.

552
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 4: They love the environment. Republicans, most Republicans.

553
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 5: Love the environment.

554
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 4: If you tell them you're you know, you're going to

555
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 4: protect this place, this sacred place, your backyard, the water

556
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 4: for your children, You're gonna protect again, toxicity, they're all in.

557
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 5: Should not be a divice issue. The environment should not be.

558
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 3: A device vision.

559
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 4: But it's hard to persuade people that lines on a

560
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 4: graph that say that sometime in the future you're going

561
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 4: to suffer take my word for it, and I want

562
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 4: you to give up these things in your life. It's

563
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 4: just all that's going to do is polarize people more.

564
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 4: But what the argument I've always made is that all

565
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 4: of the things that we need to do, whether you

566
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 4: believe in climate change or not, you don't have to

567
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 4: and I'm not going to argue with you if you

568
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 4: don't believe in it. But all the things we need

569
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 4: to do to avert climate change we ought to be

570
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 4: doing any way to avert war. You know, the oil

571
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 4: words that have cost US eight trillion dollars since two

572
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 4: thousand and two, the poisoning of every fish in America,

573
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 4: the toxicity to our children, the asthma attacks, the ozone

574
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 4: A particular, it's the sterilizing of the lakes on the Appellachi.

575
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 5: These are all.

576
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 4: Things that everybody's concerned about it and those are the

577
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 4: things I think we can get a consensus on rather

578
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 4: than and we're not going to get a consensus on

579
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 4: climate and climate using you know, the the approach that

580
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 4: we've been using up until now has stalled and if

581
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 4: you you know the solutions which are to get everybody

582
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:23,719
Speaker 4: to sign treaties and have unenforceable milestones that they have

583
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 4: to meet that nobody can enforce, that everybody can lie about,

584
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 4: and that that that become an excuse for clamping down.

585
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 4: Totalitarian controls on people are things that are going to

586
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 4: get a lot of pushback. You know, if you talk

587
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 4: to people about pollution and let's switch to something more efficient,

588
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 4: that's going to provide jobs, that's going to give us

589
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 4: a new industry and economic growth. That's something that I think,

590
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 4: you know, we can unite people on rather than divide.

591
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 2: We've only got ten minutes left forore and we got

592
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 2: to get out of here. One something we will we

593
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 2: talked about is the border, the current site situation down there.

594
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 2: How would you handle the current border situation? Would you

595
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 2: preserve and keep the remain in Mexico policy? What does

596
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 2: an ideal asylum and immigration system look like under your presidency?

597
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 4: Well, first of all, I'm going down to the border

598
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 4: in the next couple of weeks, you know, to talk

599
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 4: to every the stakeholders, the border patrol, the people on

600
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 4: both sides of the border, and try to better understand it.

601
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 4: And better hone my policies develop a solution that, first

602
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,800
Speaker 4: of all, Number one, makes the border imprevious. We cannot

603
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 4: have people coming over, millions or hundreds of thousands of

604
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 4: people coming over illegally. It's not good for our country.

605
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 4: It's a humanitarian crisis on the border, and we need

606
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 4: to end that. There are ways I know of doing it.

607
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 4: I've heard many, many different ways, but I don't know myself.

608
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 4: I mean, I know that Israel as not a wall,

609
00:34:56,280 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 4: but it has he has fencing systems, and they have

610
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:03,840
Speaker 4: the same issue that we do with African immigration, and

611
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,280
Speaker 4: they've been able to stop and stop the humanitarian crisis.

612
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 4: We need to look at this as a humanitarian crisis,

613
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 4: and we also need to be honest about the US

614
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:23,240
Speaker 4: involvement in the policies that created these huge migrations of people.

615
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 4: The decades of austerity programs that we've been imposing in

616
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 4: Central America, of wars, of supporting dictators and oppressive regimes,

617
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 4: of supporting genocides, of funding death squads in those countries,

618
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:48,800
Speaker 4: of trade agreements that were terribly imbalanced that have created

619
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 4: this migration. You look at the one country in Central

620
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 4: America that we've never invaded is Costa Rica, and you

621
00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 4: don't see Costa Rican immigrants flooding to the border in

622
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 4: the kind of numbers that we're seeing other people. Costa

623
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 4: Rica day is the wealthiest country per capita in Central America.

624
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,879
Speaker 4: It's the only country that we have not tampered with.

625
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 5: And all of.

626
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 4: These other countries we funded these wars and de squads

627
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 4: and everything else, and we need to change our policies.

628
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 1: So would you commit to lifting sanctions on Cuba and Venezuela.

629
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 1: I mean, Venezuela is a source of a lot of

630
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 1: migrants right now.

631
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 4: I would not have sanctions against Cuba or Venezuela. You know,

632
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 4: I think we ought to be encouraging those countries and

633
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 4: not bullying them. And you know, people need to be

634
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:45,240
Speaker 4: able to choose their own governments. If they're killing people,

635
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,799
Speaker 4: if they're committing genocide, and I think we should be

636
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:52,240
Speaker 4: doing sanctions. If they're doing something that threatens the United States,

637
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 4: we should do that. But otherwise we should try to

638
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 4: work with these countries and de escalate tensions and be

639
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 4: a good neighbor and a good leader, not a bully.

640
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 4: People all around the world want American leadership. They don't

641
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,240
Speaker 4: want bullying and they know the difference.

642
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 2: So I also want to ask you about abortion very quickly.

643
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 2: Would you codify Roe versus Wade? What is your view

644
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 2: on abortion in terms of national policy should you become president.

645
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 4: I mean, listen, there's nobody that's fought harder in this country.

646
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 4: And I have for bodily autonomy and for medical freedom,

647
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 4: and you know, I think every abortion is a tragedy

648
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 4: and most of the people who experience abortion feel that way,

649
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 4: and we don't need to compound that by bringing in

650
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,240
Speaker 4: government and telling people what to do with their bodies.

651
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 4: I just think that's you know that there is no

652
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 4: good option, but the only option we have is to

653
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:52,320
Speaker 4: let the woman make that choice.

654
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 1: So you'd codify roversus way go beyond that potential?

655
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 4: Well, I don't know if you can codify it, but

656
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:00,120
Speaker 4: you know, yeah, I think people ought to have.

657
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:02,399
Speaker 2: You encourage the Senate and the House to pass that law,

658
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 2: Like what is the ideal of framework?

659
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 4: In my view, people should have there right. Government should

660
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 4: not be interfering.

661
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 1: So let me ask you about vaccines. This is anaria

662
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 1: where you and I have significant differences, and you know,

663
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 1: just to level with you on this, like a lot

664
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 1: of what you say I really respond to. I think

665
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 1: you're a very genuine person. But the across the board,

666
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 1: whether you want to call it vaccine skepticism or anti

667
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: vax advocacy, which has been a central part of what

668
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 1: you've been up to for the past number of years,

669
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 1: For me personally, it's a it's an issue, and it's

670
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 1: a it's a real sort of red line. And I

671
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,720
Speaker 1: know not alone in that, especially running in a democratic primary.

672
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 1: There are going to be other millions of people like

673
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 1: me who have similar concerns. So how how do you

674
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 1: win them over? What's your message to people who think

675
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 1: like I do?

676
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,880
Speaker 5: Would just tell me? Tell me where you think I

677
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 5: got it wrong?

678
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 1: Well, I think you get it wrong when you draw

679
00:38:56,200 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 1: a correlation between the rise of of things like autism

680
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 1: and the introduction of vaccines when there isn't hard scientific

681
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: evidence tying those things together.

682
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 4: How do you let me ask you this, How do

683
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 4: you know there's not a hard scientific evidence?

684
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 1: Well, because the one major study that purported to show

685
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 1: that was retracted and the scientist who conducted it was

686
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 1: you know, what you're doing basically fraudulently created.

687
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:25,840
Speaker 5: I don't know, but I.

688
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: Don't want to get I don't want to get in

689
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: a debate with you about this, because you've spent your

690
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 1: life pulling out this. I will tell you. Let me

691
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 1: just tell you. Let me just tell you. I've listened

692
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 1: to hours of interviews with you with an open mind,

693
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 1: and I'm not persuaded. Now, maybe I'm wrong. That's possible.

694
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:47,879
Speaker 1: I'll hold it out there. People can watch. I thought

695
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 1: Megan Kelly did a phenomenal interview with you that went

696
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 1: through all these claims, piece by piece by piece. I

697
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 1: really encourage people to watch that whole exchange because we

698
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 1: won't be able to do it justice here in the

699
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: five minutes we have left. But there are going to

700
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:01,919
Speaker 1: be people like me who aren't persuaded and who see

701
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: this as an issue. And the fact that it's been

702
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:06,839
Speaker 1: such a central part of your advocacy means I can't

703
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 1: just sort of put it to the side and say, oh,

704
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 1: we'll just ignore you know this piece that's been really

705
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 1: important to you in your life. So you're running in

706
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 1: a Democratic primary, you have a lot of people who

707
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 1: feel even more strongly than me, who think that, you know,

708
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 1: doctor Fauci is a hero in all of these things.

709
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: How are you going to persuade them. How are you

710
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,359
Speaker 1: going to reach them and what is your message to them?

711
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:30,880
Speaker 4: Well, first of all, I'm not leading with you know,

712
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 4: my opinions about vaccines.

713
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:34,759
Speaker 5: What I say to people is show me where I

714
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,839
Speaker 5: got it wrong, Show me where I got my signs wrong.

715
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 5: I've written books about this, you know.

716
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 4: I wrote a book about a link between dimerizoon and

717
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 4: autism that has I think four hundred and fifty distilled

718
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:53,359
Speaker 4: scientific studies that confirm and validate that hypothesis as and

719
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 4: fourteen hundred references.

720
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 5: And if I got something wrong, show me where it is.

721
00:40:57,560 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 1: But I think people have shown you where things are,

722
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 1: but you don't want to hear it is because I've seen,

723
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 1: you know, numerous fact checks. Doctor Vane Prosad, who we

724
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,719
Speaker 1: you know, really respect on the COVID vaccine. He went

725
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:11,879
Speaker 1: through your interview with all Inn. He did a fact check.

726
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not people.

727
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:15,960
Speaker 5: Have a fact check and I and you should read that.

728
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 1: I will take a look at it, but I don't

729
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 1: think that it's fair to say nobody has ever pointed

730
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 1: out anything that's been that's been wrong.

731
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 4: Well, here's why people complain about what I say. And again,

732
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:29,280
Speaker 4: I'm not leading on this issue.

733
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 5: People can either take it or leave it.

734
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 4: But if you want to, you know, I what you

735
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 4: just said about me, that I'm sort of hardheaded and stubborn,

736
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 4: it just won't give in. You're wrong about that. If

737
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 4: somebody shows me where I'm wrong.

738
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 5: I'm going to correct it.

739
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 4: And you know, we have the most probably the most

740
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 4: robust fact checking operation now in North America. I have

741
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 4: three hundred and fifty PhD scientists and empty physicians on

742
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 4: you know, HD's advisory board, including until recently Luke my

743
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 4: Here won the Nobel Prize for discovering the HIV virus.

744
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 4: Chris Portier was the head of the National Toxicity Program

745
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 4: at and I AGE formerly that probably the top toxic

746
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 4: coologist in America. And if I were saying things that

747
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 4: were scientifically unsound, those people would not stay with us.

748
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 4: What I would say to you is show me where

749
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 4: I got it wrong. Show me a study at where

750
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,839
Speaker 4: I got wrong, and I will change my position. You know,

751
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:35,919
Speaker 4: science is fluid. It's not an embarrassment to me. If

752
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 4: there's a new scientific study that I haven't seen that

753
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 4: comes out and says I'm wrong, that's what you're supposed

754
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,720
Speaker 4: to do with science. But what I'm saying to you,

755
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 4: nobody has done that. You know, if in a prisad

756
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 4: when he did his piece, if he showed me science

757
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 4: that was valid, I would say I would change my position.

758
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:58,359
Speaker 5: But we go together, you might my response to him.

759
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 1: So you say, this isn't what you're leading. But I

760
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 1: just have to say, as someone who you know is

761
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 1: watching your candidacy closely and is aware of the advocacy

762
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 1: you've been doing, and you know the organization that you

763
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 1: are involved with, it's hard for me to believe this

764
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 1: won't be an important part of how you govern. So

765
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 1: I think that's the most important piece for people to

766
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 1: get who you have to accept there are going to

767
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 1: be people like me who just don't agree with you

768
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,399
Speaker 1: on this. You you know, certainly understand that there are

769
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 1: many who do think that the vaccines that we have

770
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 1: are more beneficial than harmful that you know got their

771
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:36,439
Speaker 1: kids vaccinated and are happy for that decision. So how

772
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 1: is this going to impact the way that you govern?

773
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:40,319
Speaker 1: Or does it not at all?

774
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,719
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm going to govern according to you know

775
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 4: what the evidence based medicine.

776
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,399
Speaker 5: Oh that's you know, that's Let.

777
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:50,840
Speaker 1: Me let me give a specific question if there's another

778
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 1: pandemic in the last pandemic. Former President Trump something we

779
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 1: gave him a lot of credit for. He launched Operation

780
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 1: Warp Speed. They had a whole of government approach, use

781
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 1: the mRNA technology that was developed, using you know, US

782
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 1: taxpayer dollars to get a vaccine out to the population

783
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 1: as quickly as possible. How would your approach have differed?

784
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 4: My approach would have been a science based approach, which

785
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 4: means what which means, and a medicine based approach, the

786
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 4: approach that has been used for you know, and approved

787
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 4: for decades. You look first at therapeutics that are off

788
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 4: the shelf, and you look at the efficacy of those.

789
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 4: I mean what I would have done if I was

790
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 4: empower then I would have created an information grid because

791
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:37,759
Speaker 4: now we have this Internet that is supposed to benefit us,

792
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 4: and it has become incident and instrument for her, you know,

793
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:45,880
Speaker 4: totalitarian control. But let's use it for something good. Let's

794
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 4: link all fifteen million science doctors, frontline physicians all over

795
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:53,280
Speaker 4: the world and find out what they're doing to treat

796
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:56,720
Speaker 4: this new respiratory virus and find out what they're saying

797
00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:00,320
Speaker 4: is working and not working. Then test that science and

798
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 4: and may turn it into instantaneously into protocols and recommendations

799
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 4: for other scientists.

800
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 1: So what a vaccinating development?

801
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 4: Well, you know, I don't think the vaccine worked. I

802
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:13,879
Speaker 4: think you know if you think it worked, and try

803
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 4: to explain to me, are the countries that were unvaccinated

804
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 4: much better than than are many of.

805
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 1: Those countries because there are a lot of different factors

806
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 1: in various countries. So a lot of those countries that

807
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:25,880
Speaker 1: you pointed out.

808
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 4: Before, are we Why do we have the highest death

809
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 4: rate came in the world by far?

810
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:32,359
Speaker 1: I think there are a lot of factors that may

811
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 1: go into that. One of them is the fact that

812
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 1: we are disproportionately obese as a society. We have the

813
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 1: negative health out themes that you've been talking about. We

814
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:42,840
Speaker 1: don't go outside as much as countries, say in Africa,

815
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 1: I mean we have There are a lot of different

816
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 1: factors that may play into that. But I will I

817
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 1: will say, did the vaccines work in the way they

818
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 1: were initially promised to prevent spread? No? I don't think so,

819
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 1: especially once you got to later variants. But we have

820
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 1: a lot of data that shows that in terms of

821
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 1: reducing severe hospitalization and the vaccines were really important and

822
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 1: maybe there was a benefit.

823
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 5: Now I want to see that data. That's what the

824
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:06,840
Speaker 5: industry there is.

825
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 1: There is lots of doubt, and not just from here,

826
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 1: from around the world, but shows the vaccine doses, and

827
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:14,279
Speaker 1: not just our vaccines, but ones that were created all

828
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 1: around the world reduced severe hospitalization and death. So in

829
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 1: that way, yes, I do very much believe that they were.

830
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:21,240
Speaker 5: Let me tell you something.

831
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:24,879
Speaker 4: What I believe you're doing now is you're parroting what

832
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,839
Speaker 4: the public health agencies have been saying, but they do

833
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 4: not have a scientific basis for that. And I have

834
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 4: another book out that you should look at All Died

835
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:35,879
Speaker 4: Suddenly that goes through all the Johns Hopkins data, which

836
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 4: is the dashboard data that everybody used, and shows exactly

837
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 4: what happened when the first of all, even the vaccine,

838
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:49,399
Speaker 4: the case Western study that is probably the largest most

839
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 4: reason shows that at most the vaccine gives you a

840
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,760
Speaker 4: very very small amount of protection and that after seven

841
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 4: months you go into negative efficacy. So you are if

842
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,359
Speaker 4: you got vaccinated, you're more likely to get sick, you're

843
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 4: more likely to get severe illness, and you're more likely

844
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:06,880
Speaker 4: to die than if you were on vaccinated.

845
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 1: I have not seen that. I have seen the study

846
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:11,879
Speaker 1: at your study that shows the opposite. Listen, I don't

847
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 1: want to get bogged down in this because I don't

848
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 1: think we're going to see eye to eye here, and

849
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 1: we have some other questions we want to get to

850
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 1: in your time is short, but we'll put in posts.

851
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 1: You know, please send us what you're looking at. We'll

852
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,399
Speaker 1: put what I'm looking at, and people can can judge

853
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 1: for themselves. Sager, go ahead.

854
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:27,800
Speaker 2: I just think the fin I know you got to

855
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 2: get out of here, So I mean the final one

856
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 2: is you know, the idea is you're sitting here your

857
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 2: entire career.

858
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 3: One of the things that we have.

859
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:38,360
Speaker 2: Fought a lot about on this show against is corruption

860
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 2: and also the idea of political dynasties.

861
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 3: So with you with the famous last.

862
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 2: Name, your father and your uncle, literal American heroes and

863
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:49,480
Speaker 2: people that we think about in terms of central to

864
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 2: our history, do you think we should have royal dynasties

865
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:52,840
Speaker 2: in politics?

866
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:53,720
Speaker 3: As somebody who's.

867
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 4: Last time, I don't think we should have, well, because

868
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:01,400
Speaker 4: I don't think we do, but we clearly have clearly

869
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 4: name recognition and you know the other things that you know,

870
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:10,719
Speaker 4: give it advantage to people whose families have already been

871
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 4: in politics, who have infrastructure, who have name recognition, who

872
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:19,799
Speaker 4: have a trust that goes with that name, have have

873
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,720
Speaker 4: an advantage. And I don't know how you know whether

874
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 4: that's something that you want to get rid of.

875
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I would acknowledge that that's a truth.

876
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:33,359
Speaker 1: And my final question for you is, you know, do

877
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 1: you plan to support whoever the Democratic nominee is? And

878
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 1: do you have any intention of running third party? If

879
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 1: you're running the Democratic primary?

880
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 4: I plan on winning the Democratic primary, Okay, but Democratic combination.

881
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 1: You know they're they're rigging things. They're not going to

882
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 1: allow debates. It's going to make it very difficult for you.

883
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 1: So if something happens and you don't succeed, well, I

884
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 1: do not have a plan B. No plan B. And

885
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 1: do you plan to endorse if Joe Biden is the

886
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 1: nominee or Mary and Williams? Do you plan to endorse

887
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:03,759
Speaker 1: the virtual No?

888
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 4: I doubt if I would endorse anybody who's supporting the war.

889
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 5: I think that's what my You.

890
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:12,720
Speaker 1: Know, so you could endorse Trump, then.

891
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:16,280
Speaker 5: I don't see that happening.

892
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 3: You would never endorse president Trump.

893
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:19,720
Speaker 5: I don't.

894
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 4: I think we have so many differences in style and

895
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 4: approach that that I probably would never end up there.

896
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:29,879
Speaker 3: All right, well, sir, we appreciate your time.

897
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 5: Thank you, thank you, thank you, Chrystal. It's my pleasure, absolutely,