1 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,799 Speaker 1: Welcome a Trillian's I'm Joel Webber and I'm Eric Balcunas. 2 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 2: Eric. 3 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: If there's one state that you'd like to go to 4 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: other than Pennsylvania and New York, it would be Florida, Florida. 5 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:23,799 Speaker 2: I'm a Florida Manngel, I really am. I'm destined to 6 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:24,239 Speaker 2: live there. 7 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:27,479 Speaker 1: And you went to a trade show, which is a 8 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: thing we've done before and we will probably do again. 9 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: What was the trade show. 10 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 2: Exchange ETFs, which was formerly called Inside ETFs, but this 11 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 2: they switched the names. Inside ETF still exist, but that's 12 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 2: run by a different company, but the people who starred 13 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 2: inside the ETFs left started a new conference called Exchange. 14 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 2: At the end of the day, this is the one. 15 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 2: This is the comic con of ETFs. This is the 16 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 2: one I go to all year. This is one to 17 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 2: bring my whole team to Joel, we spend the money. 18 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 2: I've got to argue up to my managers. This is 19 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 2: worth the money. We all go. Everyone's there. It's intense. 20 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 2: It's fifteen hours of networking by eight nine o'clock. I 21 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 2: am so ready to isolate and watch like a TNT movie. 22 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 2: You know, I am fried. I have nothing left and 23 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:12,759 Speaker 2: then you wake up and do it all over again. 24 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: So again, we sent you with a recorder so that 25 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: at least some of your interactions we could, you know, 26 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: end up with some tape that we could listen to 27 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,039 Speaker 1: some takeaways and talk about some trends and maybe get 28 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:29,320 Speaker 1: some insights and learn about a few new products. 29 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is great, you know, Magnus gave me this 30 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 2: little recorder. I mean, I could use my phone, but 31 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 2: the recorders better. I just whip it out. I'm like, hey, 32 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 2: can I record you? And most people there are there 33 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,040 Speaker 2: to talk and get attention, so it's not that hard. 34 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 2: There's only one person I asked to record that declined. 35 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 2: I won't say who it was, but they're lost, Joel. 36 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: This time on trillions exchanges at exchange about exchange traded funds. Okay, Eric, 37 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: We got about a dozen or so people that you 38 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: spoke with, tons of different products and themes. Who are 39 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: going to start off with you? 40 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 2: Start off with Ali Doyle, who is head of ATP 41 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 2: Listings at NASDAC. This is a perfect conference for her 42 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:16,359 Speaker 2: because you know, when you have a bunch of ETF fishers, 43 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:18,679 Speaker 2: what they want is advisors to sell to and to 44 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 2: market to and the media, and so they're always looking 45 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 2: for a visor by advisors getting for almost no money. 46 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 2: It's like they're like Ladies night, they're the ladies. In 47 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 2: Ali's case, the issuers are her clients. So this is 48 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 2: perfect for her. So I thought we'd start with her, 49 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 2: and I just sort of got a feel for what 50 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 2: she's there for and you know what kind of interactions 51 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 2: she's having Exchange. Just to give you a quick feel 52 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:42,519 Speaker 2: for like somebody working the conference. 53 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 3: The Exchange conference really is our super bowl for ATF listings. 54 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 3: You know, for us, it's a great opportunity at the 55 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,079 Speaker 3: beginning of the year to not just interact with our 56 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 3: clients issuers that are already listing on NASDAK, but really 57 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 3: get to know the broader issuer community, you know, build 58 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 3: some new relationships and also with the market makers. You know, 59 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 3: we'll work a lot with the trading community, and it's 60 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 3: a great opportunity to build those relationships here at the 61 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 3: conference as well. 62 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 2: And what's your pitch to them versus listing on like 63 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 2: Nicey or another exchange. 64 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, every exchange sort of has their different 65 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 3: take and different branding. Right now, ZECH is very aligned 66 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 3: with innovative new products, you know, a lot of tech, 67 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 3: you know, creativity that we're bringing to the table. So 68 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 3: for us, you know, we really think about being a 69 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 3: full extension of our issuers team really from pre to 70 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 3: post launch. A lot of that is around marketing how 71 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 3: we can help issuers promote their products and a lot 72 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 3: of the liquidity you know, that comes from training on 73 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 3: Nasdak Nazak is the largest equity US equity venue, and 74 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 3: so we take a lot of pride in that and 75 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 3: making sure issuers know that's you know, that's who they're 76 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 3: working with as their listing exchange. 77 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 2: So Joel you can see, obviously perfect for her talking 78 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 2: to marketers. And the other reason I talked to Ali 79 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 2: is I never met her before, even though she runs 80 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 2: in the same circles. But we were paired together for 81 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 2: this game show that Todd Rosenbluth put together inspired by 82 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 2: our episode about I don't know three or four months 83 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 2: ago where we had the trivia game. They had an 84 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 2: on stage game show and Ali and I were partners. 85 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: How'd you guys do? 86 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 2: We kicked but we won legit. However, we were so 87 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 2: in the lead that the end they felt bad and 88 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 2: they said, Okay, this next question is worth ten was 89 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:16,840 Speaker 2: the last question, just so the people who were like 90 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 2: below could come up and win, and to be nice, 91 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 2: we didn't answer. We let them answer it, and they 92 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 2: won in this sort of weird socialist way. But straight up, 93 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 2: we got the most answers and she was on the ball, 94 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 2: and I think we should do another game show episode 95 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 2: for on this with people from the industry like her. 96 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 2: It was fun. 97 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 1: I like the sound of all of that. We also 98 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 1: had a kind of a weird ending of our tribute. 99 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: I said, okay, so who are we listening to next? 100 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 2: Jeremy Senderwick's who is a lawyer for Vetter Price. One 101 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 2: of the biggest issues at the conference was this idea 102 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 2: that now that the Vanguard patent is expired, all mutual 103 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 2: funds can now add an ETF share class to their 104 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,840 Speaker 2: mutual fund. Bolt it right on. This is a big deal. 105 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:06,279 Speaker 2: This could be thousands of ETF share classes on mutual funds. 106 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 2: I can't overstate it. Katie Grayfield did a whole story 107 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 2: on it based on her time at the exchange. So 108 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 2: I asked Jeremy, who's a lawyer works with the SEC 109 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 2: you know about whether this will happen this year? Sooner 110 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 2: or later, and what the hurdles are because this is 111 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 2: probably after the Bitcoin, this is probably the next big 112 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 2: issue for the ETF industry. 113 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 4: Well, it's very tough to say because there have been 114 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 4: a number of applications filed, but there's been no public 115 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 4: movement on it. The SEC has put the word out 116 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:39,840 Speaker 4: to the industry that they won't be formal movement on 117 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 4: these applications until the swing pricing proposal is settled in 118 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 4: one way or the other. 119 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: What's the swing pricing proposal. 120 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 2: It's just about how navs are struck for fixed income 121 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 2: mutual funds. I won't go into details, but I don't either. 122 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,479 Speaker 2: They can work it out, it's not it's something that 123 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 2: can be worked out. And especially you have Fidelity DFA. 124 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 2: There was some other big, gigantic company that also Morgan Stanley. 125 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 2: Those are powerhouse asset managers and the ICI, they're all 126 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 2: behind this. So I have faith that these big companies 127 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 2: are going to be able to work it out with 128 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 2: the SEC, and in a year or so we'll have 129 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 2: ETF share classes, which you know, again are going to 130 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 2: be major. You know, our big theme this year for 131 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 2: our outlook was the many roads to ETF It's one 132 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 2: thing to launch a clone, it's another thing to convert 133 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:27,840 Speaker 2: your mutual fund. And now I have a third way, 134 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 2: which is a share class. Speaking of bitcoin, let's go 135 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 2: into the bitcoin. I got a couple interviews lined up 136 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 2: for that. 137 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 1: This was how much bitcoin was there at the conference. 138 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 2: It was a big deal. It was a lot of 139 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 2: the buzz. 140 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: It's also in Miami. 141 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:49,479 Speaker 2: It is in Miami, right, Yeah, So a couple things. First, 142 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 2: I moderated the crypto panel, which I think, according to 143 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 2: all the articles on it was the most attended. They 144 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 2: had this thing called Silent Disco where you put the 145 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,600 Speaker 2: headphones on. They ran a headphones stroll. We sold the 146 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 2: place out, and this is like early in the morning, 147 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 2: you know, when everybody's hungover and stuff and doing just 148 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 2: back from yoga on the beach and all that stuff. 149 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 2: We sold it out. It was one of the better sessions, 150 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 2: I thought. And then Gray Scale had the huge booth. 151 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 2: They kind of took all the attention with this massive booth. 152 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 2: And then they had a huge drone show at the 153 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 2: end of the last night where they had drones making 154 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 2: the bitcoin sign and the blockchain. And so definitely, if 155 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 2: I ten years from now, when I think back on 156 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 2: all these conferences, to me, this will be the bitcoin 157 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 2: ETF one. 158 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: Okay, so who's the first guest to talk about bitcoin? 159 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 2: Well, we should open with the big dog, Blackrock. So 160 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 2: we got Jay Jacobs, who's us head of Thematics and 161 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 2: Active Equity. This is the guy who's out there marketing ibit, 162 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 2: which is black Rocks Bitcoin ETF, which is already i 163 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 2: think like six seven billion dollars again smashing records for 164 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 2: a ETF that's six weeks old. So I have two 165 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 2: clips for him. The first is on basically why black 166 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 2: Rock did this. This is a little out of character. 167 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 2: They had never filed in previous and we just sort 168 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 2: of hous it going. So that's the clip the first one. 169 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 5: It's been incredibly exciting. I think going into this launch, 170 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 5: we knew there would be a lot of interest. We 171 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 5: heard from clients over several years that they were looking 172 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 5: at a bitcoin ETF as really being kind of the 173 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 5: silver bullet for getting really you know, high quality, efficient, 174 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 5: easy access to bitcoin, and so a lot of our 175 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 5: expectations have been met so far. I think what's interesting 176 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 5: is who's buying it, And I think early on, when 177 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 5: you see this amount of money coming into new ETF. 178 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 5: It's a lot of people who already developed an investment 179 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 5: thesis around bitcoin. These are people who maybe already decided 180 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 5: they wanted exposure, but weren't happy with how they were 181 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 5: getting the exposure, and the ETF is kind of that 182 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 5: great way to get precise exposure to bitcoin alongside stocks 183 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 5: and bonds in their portfolio. What we haven't seen yet 184 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 5: is people who are just starting that investment journey where 185 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 5: they have not previously really considered bitcoin because they couldn't 186 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 5: get exposure to it, and now they're learning about the asset, 187 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 5: going through the education, they're trying to understand how it 188 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 5: fits in a portfolio. And this is going to be 189 00:08:57,559 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 5: a longer term process for a lot of investors who 190 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 5: are really kind of starting it, you know, in a 191 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 5: lot of ways, kind of their first day of understanding bitcoin. 192 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 2: And let's go over to the second clip, which is 193 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 2: selling to advisors. This is the big target market for bitcoin, 194 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 2: the boomers, just I mean, how do you position this 195 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:15,199 Speaker 2: to an advisor in a. 196 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 5: Missouri One of the things we hear a lot from 197 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 5: advisors is that they have clients that already own bitcoin 198 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 5: and they are looking for a better way to get 199 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:25,319 Speaker 5: exposure to it. Their clients either don't want to deal 200 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 5: with hot you know, cold storage, hot hot wallets, they 201 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 5: don't want to deal with you know, trading it a 202 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 5: on a crypto exchange, and so the ETF really solves 203 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:34,559 Speaker 5: a lot of challenges for them. So frankly, a lot 204 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:37,679 Speaker 5: of the conversations we've had, I've been around, my client 205 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:39,559 Speaker 5: has exposure to this. They want a better way to 206 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 5: get exposure to it going forward. 207 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 2: So listen, Joel, you know, forget the society's going to collapse. 208 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 2: L Salvador uses it. This guy you could you could 209 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 2: talk to. This is the guy who's promoting bitcoin ETFs. 210 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 2: This is a Again, I can't overstate how they've taken 211 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 2: this sort of wild subculture sure and streamlined it into 212 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 2: a guy like. 213 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: Jay plugged and played it into a big ETF conference. 214 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 2: Well, but also just listen to the way he talks. 215 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 2: If you're in Missouri and you're conservative, you're managing client assets, 216 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 2: you would hear this person out, whereas a lot of 217 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:16,679 Speaker 2: the stuff you hear from the bitcoin be scary. It 218 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 2: would just scare advisors off. So translating the bitcoin message 219 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:24,559 Speaker 2: through the sort of prism of people like Jay and Blackrock. Again, 220 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 2: this is why we were so bullish. 221 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: Also also interesting that, as he points out, the people 222 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:34,079 Speaker 1: who were familiar with this stuff already are the early adopters, 223 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:36,959 Speaker 1: and there's so much more room for growth there when 224 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: you think about anybody who might entertain doing this and 225 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: come into the asset cold. All right, who's next? 226 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 2: The other The number two in the race is Fidelity. 227 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 2: They've taken in again, I think five to six billion. 228 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,679 Speaker 2: Greg Friedman, who heads up all the ETFs. 229 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 6: First mover is important, but this is a big enough 230 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 6: category with so much anticipation that there's probably room for 231 00:10:57,559 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 6: a few of us to actually be at the levels 232 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 6: that we are. But we're thrilled with the early returns 233 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,319 Speaker 6: and is succeeded expectations. 234 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 2: And we saw that you added some to a model 235 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 2: in Canada. Your conservative allocation model for fidility had a 236 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 2: one percent crypto. Are we possibly going to see, you know, 237 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 2: Fidelity and others incorporate these into models. 238 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 6: I would anticipate. I don't know when. This is an 239 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 6: exciting asset class, no different than you know, fixed income 240 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:27,679 Speaker 6: or equity. 241 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 2: So there you go, man. This is again Fidelity has 242 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 2: tons of advisors. Blackrock doesn't have an advisor network. They're 243 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 2: just an asset manager. But Fidelity has like advisors, like 244 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 2: a lot of our parents would use a Fidelity advisor. 245 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 2: And they've already put a one percent allocation in their 246 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 2: model in Canada. And this again speaks to the power 247 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:49,079 Speaker 2: of how much Fidelity can just sort of bring assets 248 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 2: in just by telling all their advisors we're into this, 249 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 2: you know, from the home office nucleus. So again, a 250 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 2: lot of this stuff is very powerful. 251 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: It's like this now for the thing, and suddenly it's 252 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: like institutional money is pouring into this. Yeah, okay, who's next? 253 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 1: Okay not bitcoin? 254 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 2: No, we got two more? 255 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 1: Oh jeez, more bitcoin. This really was the bitcoin cover. 256 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 2: Look, I'm trying to look. We're going to look back. 257 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 2: This was the bitcoin okay. Kathy Chrisky, one of my 258 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 2: favorit people in the industry, has a great personality. She's 259 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:23,319 Speaker 2: the investo's commodity strategist, so they also have bitcoin etf now. 260 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 2: She's all into commodity. She's been on ETFIQ. She always 261 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 2: says the two w's Warren Weather good for commodities. And 262 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 2: her message on bitcoin was interesting because as a commodities person, 263 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 2: how much does she accept bitcoin or reject it? And 264 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 2: I asked her about the use case because all these 265 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 2: other commodities have a use case, even gold. Well, what's 266 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 2: bitcoin's use case for her? 267 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:47,559 Speaker 7: It is a currency, right, even though it's not used 268 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 7: primarily as a currency, but it is a sort of 269 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 7: store of value. And that's where when people get like 270 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 7: they don't understand bitcoin, I said, let's go back to 271 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 7: digital gold. 272 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 2: Now. 273 00:12:56,520 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 7: When I first joined the bitcoin team, because bitcoin's a commodity, 274 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 7: I was frustrated by any analysis I saw about digital 275 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 7: gold and people saying like, oh, quarter of the gold 276 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 7: investors are gonna shift to bitcoin. 277 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 2: I was like, are you kidding? 278 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 7: Have you met a gold investor? You're gonna have to 279 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 7: pry that gold out of their dead hands, right, they 280 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 7: don't sell their gold. I was like, but now like 281 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 7: understanding that it is a store of value, right, and 282 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 7: especially the younger generation, they've been in this asset class 283 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 7: for so long and yet now they have a more 284 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 7: an easier access point with the ETF. But really, like, 285 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 7: I feel like it is like a currency. It is 286 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 7: a store of value like gold. It makes sense for investors, 287 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 7: but again, small allocation it's still volatile. But that's another 288 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 7: one of my preconceived notions. I think everyone's got wrong. 289 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:44,679 Speaker 7: People think the volatility for bitcoin is over one hundred percent. 290 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 7: I was like, okay, yes, ten years ago it was 291 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 7: actually one hundred and twenty percent, but now it's forty 292 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 7: seven percent. And with natural gas becoming so volatile, I said, 293 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 7: most of the time, it's ninety percent now. So think 294 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 7: about that, Bitcoin is almost half the volatility of natural gas. 295 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 7: And I think the average investor has no idea about that. 296 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 2: So, yeah, it's it's getting it's calming down a little, Joel. 297 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 2: But listen the big takeaway here Fidelity, black Rock Investco. 298 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 2: We're talking trillions and assets. He's heard from three of 299 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 2: their top people, not to mention all the wholesalers. Again, 300 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 2: you got to consider this is an army of sales 301 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 2: going on. And again this is I think part of 302 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 2: what makes underestimating the ETF largely probably a mistake. 303 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: It is just wild to think about how much the 304 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: conversation has changed. Isn't it before the ETF to after 305 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: the ETF. 306 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 2: And of course their motive, I mean some it's hard 307 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 2: to tell you money on this. Yeah, are they really 308 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 2: orange pilled or they just revenue pilled. 309 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: It's hard to tell revenue pilled. Man like that. It's 310 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: bottom line, this is this is how this works. Okay, 311 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 1: who's the last bitcoin voice? And then never again? 312 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 2: Okay, now we have yeah we There was a guy 313 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 2: who was there, Frank Schaparro, who is director of Special 314 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 2: Reports and a host of the Scoop podcast from the Block. 315 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 2: So this is a bitcoin native guy. So he is 316 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 2: a bitcoiner, kind of crypto guy. I was curious how 317 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 2: he felt at the ETF conference and as sort of 318 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 2: a stranger in a strange land. 319 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 8: I mean, I've been kind of blown away at the 320 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 8: extent to which crypto has actually been taking seriously. Like 321 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 8: I've been to other financial conferences, whether it's market structure 322 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 8: of trading, and they make the FTX show because they 323 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 8: make the jokes about it being a ponzi. But I 324 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 8: think that it's carried a bit of bravatas at this 325 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 8: event that has surprised me, especially with Brayscale obviously having 326 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 8: like that sort of center booth, one of the more 327 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 8: impressive booths, and a very nice event last night. So 328 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 8: I think people are taking crypto seriously here. It's it's 329 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 8: not like in your face, Like it's not like the 330 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 8: most important conversation being you had, but it's definitely a 331 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 8: it's definitely something to talk about here. 332 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 2: What would you say the boomer factor is on a 333 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 2: scale of one, that's ten, honestly, not that boomer. 334 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: I'd put it out like a six and a half. 335 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 8: I mean, this is very other ATF community is very robust. 336 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, look, because I get called a boomer in a 337 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 2: suit constantly on Twitter troll even though I feel like 338 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:15,119 Speaker 2: I'm pretty. 339 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 1: Happy kind of are but yeah, I'm gen x. 340 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 2: We fought the boomers first, and now look at you. 341 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 2: Uh so six pointy five isn't bad. 342 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: But what's also interesting about this is like it just 343 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: speaks to what what you were kind of the before 344 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: and after thing. Right before there was so much uh concern, 345 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: and now it's now that it's gone institutional and you 346 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: see this. It's like even the folks that were hardcore 347 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: crypto can see a light. 348 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 2: Okay, next guest, Okay, let's go back to some vanilla. 349 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 2: You got ready for the scoop of vanilla? After that? Yeah, 350 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 2: like we did the topics for the crazy stuff. We 351 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 2: did the m and ms and the chocolate fudge first. 352 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 2: Now we're going to the Yeah, let's go for Hollyframs 353 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 2: that Capital Group head of Global Product strategy and Development. 354 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 2: So hollywoods from black Rock joined Capital Group. I just 355 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 2: asked her about when you have an active fund which 356 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 2: they're growing, how hard is it to displace index funds 357 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 2: in the core. That is no small task, Torol Capital Group. 358 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 9: ETFs are definitely sitting at the core of client portfolios. 359 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:24,120 Speaker 9: We're seeing really two flavors of investment. One, clients who 360 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 9: have model allocations appreciate the ETF vehicle, utilizing our funds 361 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,400 Speaker 9: sitting at the core just as they would an index product. 362 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 9: And two we're really seeing clients come back to Capital 363 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 9: Group who maybe had moved toward the ETF vehicle, had 364 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,399 Speaker 9: to move toward index management, and are now recognizing that 365 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 9: as they have increased choice, they're going to come back 366 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 9: and they're going to select that active management again. So 367 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 9: we're seeing flavors of both, but definitely at the core. 368 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: Okay, so active ongoing conversation about how that's sort of 369 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 1: been perhaps kind of the next dimension of where ETFs 370 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: can go and grow. 371 00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, Capitol Group had a little party 372 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 2: DFA had a that James and David went on the 373 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 2: active companies are spending more money at the conference. They're 374 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 2: making a splash. Definitely a change from several years ago. Again, 375 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 2: this all evolves. It was a smart beto, was was 376 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:16,680 Speaker 2: a big thing a couple of years. Then it was ESG. 377 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 2: Active is one of the bigger themes and one of 378 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 2: the bigger sponsors. Next, speaking of active, so active passive. 379 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,159 Speaker 2: That whole debate that we've had many times, it's like 380 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 2: back in the headlines, back in the headlines because David Einhorn, 381 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 2: who's a hedge fund manager pretty popular, said something about 382 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 2: how it was kind of like screwing up the market. 383 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,159 Speaker 2: Also two barrier hilts, two barry red holts, although he 384 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 2: did say, look, you know it's our job to capitalize 385 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 2: on that inefficiency. But anyway, brought it back up. And 386 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 2: one of the people that I debate constantly on this 387 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 2: is Mike Green of Simplify, and so I got Mike there. 388 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 2: Mike and I had gone back and forth on Twitter 389 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 2: a little bit, little little debate going on, but I 390 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 2: like Mike and he's we disagree on this, but he's 391 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 2: always civil and he's nice. So I caught him and 392 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 2: I asked them for his elevator pitch on why this 393 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 2: matters to a rural person. 394 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 10: So the problem is unfortunately not an individual problem. It's 395 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 10: a societal problem. What we're actually doing is is we're 396 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,399 Speaker 10: taking liquidity out of the market. You and I have 397 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 10: had discussions around how much cash, for example, as being 398 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 10: held at active funds versus passive funds. The holding of 399 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,639 Speaker 10: cash creates option value, It creates the ability to generate 400 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 10: liquidity internally. It gives me the flexibility to meet a redemption. 401 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 10: It gives me the flexibility to buy something without necessarily 402 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 10: having to sell something. When you change to passive vehicles, 403 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 10: you've robbed the market of that flexibility and it creates 404 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 10: a much more brittle situation that becomes much more sensitive 405 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:39,439 Speaker 10: to the flows in and out of the market. 406 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,120 Speaker 2: So he's basically saying index funds don't have any cash 407 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 2: on hand right they invest at all because they don't 408 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 2: want to have good tracking. So in something they get money, 409 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:51,639 Speaker 2: they just buy stocks indiscriminately. And again, I think we 410 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 2: should have Mike on down the road and have this debate. 411 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 2: Every time I did a spaces with him gets a 412 00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,439 Speaker 2: lot of engagement people are very interested in this debate, 413 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 2: even though it feels a little tired to me. But again, 414 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 2: passive keeps growing, so it's going to be a debate 415 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 2: and it's going to flare up and then it's funny. 416 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 2: I recorded another like ten minutes with him, but I 417 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:10,160 Speaker 2: had to cut it because I knew we were gonna 418 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 2: go down a rabbit hole and we did. 419 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,640 Speaker 1: Okay, running corner, only a couple more. 420 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, who's next? Okay, next up, Let's go over some 421 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 2: classic issuers at the conference, kind of hawking their wares, 422 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 2: you know. So here's Garrett Stevens, who we had on 423 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 2: the show. He's a white label issuer. When you go 424 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 2: to the Fountain Blue, first of all, there's pictures of 425 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,679 Speaker 2: Frank Sinatra all over the walls, like he's like the 426 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 2: King of the Fountain Blue. His spirit hovers over the 427 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,120 Speaker 2: whole thing, you know. And I read in a book 428 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 2: there was like mafia hits in the lobby, like people 429 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,199 Speaker 2: have died in that lobby. Not that he was related 430 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 2: to the mafia, but you get the idea. So there's 431 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,719 Speaker 2: a pool area where you have to walk on this 432 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 2: little sidewalk in the middle of the water to get 433 00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 2: to a circle, and the circle is where Garrett Stevens 434 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 2: booth was, which was one of the cooler areas. So there, 435 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 2: literally their booth is in the middle of a circle 436 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 2: of water. How cool is that? So I just asked him, 437 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 2: like what he's doing there and how he's trying to 438 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 2: pitch being a white label issu or to some of 439 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 2: the people there who are just walking around the conference. 440 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 11: So we have some of our existing clients here who've 441 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 11: launched funds with us, so we're helping them get exposure 442 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 11: talk to advisors that are here walking around. Then we're 443 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 11: talking to other advisors that are here walking around about 444 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 11: launching funds and telling them why they ought to have 445 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:30,399 Speaker 11: their own et apps. So we spend our time doing that, 446 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 11: and we're talking to all the service providers in the industry. 447 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 11: So we've got everybody here that you could ever want 448 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 11: in one place for two very long days trying to 449 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 11: get a bunch of stuff done. So it's great. 450 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 2: And I asked him because he was about a foot 451 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 2: away from water behind him, and I asked him if 452 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 2: anybody had slipped in the wall pool yet, and he 453 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 2: said no, So I knew you were wondering. 454 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: I was just fearing for his laptop. 455 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 2: So while I was talking to him in the circle. 456 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 2: Because remember Garrett Stevens is the equivalent of like music producer, 457 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 2: He's got artists on his white label stable. One of 458 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 2: those people is the Music ETF. Even though I just 459 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:12,880 Speaker 2: used that metaphor MUSQ is this new thematic music industry 460 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 2: ETF very interested in. Yes, by David Schulholf, who's founder 461 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 2: and CEO of this A lawyer from music industry. Used 462 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 2: to own the rights to songs from Tupac, Third Eye Blind, 463 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 2: your favorite band. I know, Jumper was your wedding song. 464 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 2: So he was really interesting. We got to I think 465 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 2: we should have him on for the full Monty show 466 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 2: because I just love the idea that these indie issuers, 467 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 2: like if blackrock does music ETF. I'm sorry, it's just 468 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 2: not as interesting because they're just like put for sure. 469 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 2: But this guy's from the industry. He sees what's going 470 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 2: on the ground floor, and he's like, this is worth 471 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 2: me doing all this for. So here's a little talk 472 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 2: with him. 473 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 1: By the way, that was a nice third I play signer. 474 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 12: So I've been in the music industry for like thirty years. Yeah, 475 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 12: I had a music publishing company called Evergreen Copyrights. I 476 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,199 Speaker 12: used to own all the rights to Tupac Shakor, to 477 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 12: MC hammer, to Jjklee. We won the Grammy with Eric Clapton, 478 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,360 Speaker 12: Bill Monroe. We had everything from Bill Monroe to death Row. 479 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 12: So I owned about one hundred thousand songs. We had 480 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 12: offices in Nashville, in la. 481 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:15,200 Speaker 2: In London. 482 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 12: So I've been in the industry for a long time. 483 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,719 Speaker 12: I was also the president of music at IM Global. 484 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,440 Speaker 12: I produced Clive Davis's film The Soundtrack of Our Lives, 485 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,479 Speaker 12: which I sold to Apple, which is a number one 486 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:25,439 Speaker 12: music doc today. 487 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 2: You know. 488 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 12: And I started off my career as a vice president 489 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 12: at Disney overseeing music for mier Max and Dimension Film. 490 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,919 Speaker 12: So I really know nothing about anything except music, and 491 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 12: I know music really well. 492 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 2: I love this. I love the indies. A lot of 493 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 2: them are just so passionate. You know, Perth Toll with 494 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 2: her Freedom meetif I remember the whiskey guy, He's straight 495 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 2: from Kentucky, lived amongst barrels of whiskey all day. I 496 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:50,919 Speaker 2: just think these stories are so interesting. I hope we 497 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 2: have them on. He also talked about you know, I 498 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:54,959 Speaker 2: use the MP three a lot in a metaphor for 499 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 2: what ETFs have done to finance as a disruptor. But 500 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,200 Speaker 2: since the MP three cochroal music industry went got cut 501 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 2: in half, but now it's double where it was because 502 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 2: they figured out new ways to make money with Spotify 503 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 2: and that, and that's why he's so excited. I just 504 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,479 Speaker 2: think it's a good time to go into it. But anyway, 505 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 2: I was not even meaning to interview my Scott talking 506 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:15,879 Speaker 2: to him like, Okay, I gotta I gotta talk to you. 507 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 2: That's why it's handy having that little mic in my bag. 508 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,360 Speaker 1: Okay, I think we're almost to the end. 509 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 2: We are last, but not least David Ahbak. He's Cio 510 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:30,159 Speaker 2: Hoya Capital. This guy loves reats. He lives it, eats it, 511 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 2: walks it, sleeps it. He's walking around. He's got a 512 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 2: grateful dead dress shirt on. So again, people are able 513 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:39,479 Speaker 2: to show a little more of their personality here. It's 514 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:41,439 Speaker 2: not all suits, although since the big companies came in, 515 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 2: it's a little more stuffy. But he's kind of a 516 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 2: classic ETF Fisher independent and here he is ready on 517 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 2: the drop of a dime to give you his pitch 518 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,159 Speaker 2: for why reads Now you're out here. You've got a 519 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 2: grateful dead shirt on. You're pitching reads, read ETFs. Why reads? 520 00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 11: Why not? 521 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,440 Speaker 13: There's the fact cutting interest for it's this year probably 522 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:05,719 Speaker 13: if they cut interest rates this year. Let me phrase that, 523 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 13: when they cut interest rates this year, the reachs are 524 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 13: the first sector to respond on that interest rate cut. 525 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 13: Ask any of these bitcoin guys, where does bitcoin fit 526 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,640 Speaker 13: in the portfolio? I don't know where does ESG fit 527 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 13: in the portfolio. I don't know where to reach in 528 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 13: real estate fit in five to fifteen percent of the portfolio. 529 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 13: So as a result, when the Fed cuts rates, it's 530 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,119 Speaker 13: the reachs the first sector respond. So now is the 531 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 13: time to start positioning that portfolio for the pending rate cut, 532 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 13: and reads are the rates are the beneficiary of that. 533 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 2: Like those digs at his piers there, get it grateful 534 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 2: that cheer onde and look, look everybody not everybody's into 535 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 2: the bitcoin thing. This guy's like, yeah, he's all these 536 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:51,200 Speaker 2: big they don't they don't know. Yeah at the portfolio, 537 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 2: that's a lot, that's pretty good. Yeah. So yeah, so 538 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:56,639 Speaker 2: he took a shot at ESG and bitcoin, which are 539 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,159 Speaker 2: the two last flavors of the month of these conferences, 540 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 2: which is small. I mean, you're competing against mutual funds, 541 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 2: of course, but you're also competing as amongst each other 542 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,439 Speaker 2: on the ground floor there, so I thought he was 543 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,119 Speaker 2: kind of alematic of that, and he's also just the 544 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 2: good guy was there. I was preparing my crypto panel 545 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,159 Speaker 2: notes right before the session, having my muffin which I 546 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 2: poured into yogurt, and he was just sitting there quietly 547 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 2: letting me prepare and good guy. 548 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,200 Speaker 1: Best part about this episode you went to a trade 549 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 1: show for two days. I listened to about thirty minutes 550 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 1: and it was probably all I needed. Well done, Thank you. 551 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 2: Listen one of these years you're going to go. You 552 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 2: keep like flirting with it. 553 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,439 Speaker 1: Why would I can do it in thirty minutes. 554 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 2: There's way more than this, So much more happened, trol. 555 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 2: Come on, Eric, you gotta go next year. 556 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:57,119 Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Thanks for listening to trillions. Until 557 00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 1: next time. You can find us on the Bloomberg terminal, 558 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 1: bloomber dot com, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever else you'd 559 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: like to listen. We'd love to hear from you. We're 560 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 1: on Twitter. I'm at Joel Webber Show. He's at Eric 561 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 1: Baltuno's This episode of Trillions was produced by Magnus Hendrickson 562 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: Bye