1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: Hi, it's Westkasova. We're taking a break this week, so 2 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:09,799 Speaker 1: here's one of our favorite episodes you might have missed 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: and an update since this show aired. People who pre 4 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:17,639 Speaker 1: ordered Biofire smart guns can now expect delivery in late 5 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:20,760 Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, and larger runs of the weapon are 6 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: planned for early next year. From Bloomberg News and iHeartRadio, 7 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: it's the Big Take. I'm Westkasova today, a gun designed 8 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: to reduce accidental deaths and suicide. We're faced all the 9 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: time in the US with horrifying news of mass shootings 10 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: and the go nowhere arguments that follow over what can 11 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: be done to keep f arms out of the hands 12 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: of those who intentionally use them to kill others. But 13 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 1: accidental gun injuries and deaths, especially among kids and teenagers, 14 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: as well as people who use guns to take their 15 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: own lives, are also a large and growing problem. Now, 16 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 1: a young inventor in Colorado named Kai Kluppfer is working 17 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:25,680 Speaker 1: on a new handgun specifically designed to prevent these tragedies. 18 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: It uses technology to stop it from being fired by 19 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: anyone but its owner. 20 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 2: The key thing that we are trying to solve for 21 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 2: which I think we could completely solve is children and 22 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:39,119 Speaker 2: teenagers getting access firearms. We think that by building technology 23 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 2: that basically works with the gun owner to enforce what 24 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 2: they're already looking to do, allows us to really actually 25 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 2: address that portion of the challenge of busy gundests in America. 26 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: In a new Business Week story, Bloomberg reporter Ashley Vance 27 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: writes about how the gun works. 28 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 3: So as you're walking up to it, this white light 29 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 3: sort of goes off, and that signals, hey, the gun 30 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 3: knows somebody's getting near it, somebody's about to hold it. 31 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: And whether gun rights advocates will embrace this new safety 32 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 1: feature or oppose it. 33 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:13,679 Speaker 3: You can look back going twenty years at different efforts 34 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 3: to make smart guns, most of them not terribly inspiring. 35 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:20,639 Speaker 3: The trend seems to have been to try to slap 36 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 3: a fingerprint sensor onto an existing gun, or a lot 37 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 3: of them had watches that were compared to the gun 38 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 3: to give you some kind of location to the person. 39 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 3: But pretty much they all required just too many steps 40 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 3: and often failed in demos, and really did the smart 41 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 3: gun effort no favors to date? 42 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 1: Why have people tried to develop them? Like, what is 43 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: the appeal of a smart gun? 44 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 3: It has a couple different fronts to it. One is 45 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 3: just if you think of it. I almost started thinking 46 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 3: of it almost just like a seatbelt in a car. 47 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 3: It's just this extra thing we're putting on, something that 48 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 3: some people use all the time, and it's this extra safeguard. 49 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:01,359 Speaker 3: And so on the one hand, you could vent accidents 50 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 3: in the home. Obviously, a kid finds a gun and 51 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 3: pulls the trigger and it's loaded. This would stop something 52 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 3: like that happening. There's the thought that this could also 53 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 3: prevent a lot of suicides. It would make it that 54 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 3: much harder, especially for a young person to find a 55 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:16,679 Speaker 3: gun that they could get their hands on. It would 56 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 3: give them this extra moment of pause to think about 57 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 3: what they were doing. The last big bucket is someone 58 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 3: like a police officer who's afraid that their weapon might 59 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 3: be turned against them. And so again you have this 60 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 3: extra safeguard. 61 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: And obviously we're having yet another year where we're seeing 62 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: a lot of mass shootings, just another one very recently. 63 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: Is there any argument why a smart gun might bring 64 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 1: down that sort of violence. 65 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 3: On the mass shootings? Not really, if we're being honest. 66 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 3: The biggest case for smart guns, at least it seems 67 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 3: to me is that we have a lot of people 68 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 3: who are eighteen or under who are not supposed to 69 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 3: be buying guns. They're not allowed to buy guns. Mostly 70 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 3: this is aimed at these kids who shouldn't be able 71 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 3: to get a gun, and if they do now, they 72 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 3: wouldn't be able to use it. You know. In a 73 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 3: lot of these shootings, sadly, we see people coming in 74 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 3: with assault rifles and weapons that are sort of beyond 75 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 3: what these measures would protect. 76 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: So, as you say, people have been trying to develop 77 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: this technology all different kinds of ways for a long 78 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: time and they haven't been able. 79 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 3: To do it. 80 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: But now you write about a young man named Kai 81 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,280 Speaker 1: Kluppfer who seems to have kind of unlocked the coat. 82 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 3: Yeah, he's only twenty six now, he's been working on 83 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 3: this since he was fifteen. So you've got kind of 84 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 3: the person on a quest, this young man who was 85 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 3: possessed by this idea of making a smart gun and 86 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 3: was very committed to it and has seen it through 87 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 3: all these years. And then I think it's also the 88 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 3: technology has really gotten to the point where this is 89 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 3: a lot more feasible than it used to be. Kai's 90 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 3: company is called biofire, and they have a smart gun 91 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 3: that has a fingerprint reader on it, and it has 92 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 3: facial recognition on it. It's a lot like your smartphone. 93 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 3: And so you know, this is technology that Apple and 94 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 3: Google and Samsung and everyone else has really refined over 95 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 3: the last ten years to make it work very well, 96 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 3: work cost effectively. And so Kai is the first person 97 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 3: that I've run across who really took this ground up 98 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 3: approach to starting from scratch and really making a gun 99 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 3: that works, but with all this stuff baked into it 100 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 3: as opposed to just slapping things on an existing weapon. 101 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 1: And Ashley, you got a chance to speak to Kai 102 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: Klupp for about this gun. Let's listen to what he 103 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:27,280 Speaker 1: had to say. 104 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 2: The number one kind of key challenge here is building 105 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 2: something that is reliable enough both that is always going 106 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 2: to be locked when the owner needs it to be locked, 107 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 2: but also that is always going to be unlocked when 108 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 2: the owner needs to be unlocked. And both of those 109 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 2: are really important. You can't just have one or the other. 110 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,280 Speaker 2: And we've never seen, in some of the kind of 111 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 2: failed attempts from other folks in the past, we've never 112 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 2: seen people actually achieve both of those In most cases, 113 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 2: they don't achieve either of them. 114 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: Tell us about Kai klup for and how he came 115 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:56,559 Speaker 1: to develop this gun. 116 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, he grew up in Colorado. His parents were lawyers, 117 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 3: but he was always this tinkerer at home. He was 118 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 3: at the age of eleven making customs circuit boards of 119 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:08,919 Speaker 3: the family garage. He was always running around with his 120 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 3: engineering textbooks, just one of those people who's wired that 121 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 3: way and had been entering science fairs and things like that. 122 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 3: When he was fifteen, the Aurora shooting happened, where a 123 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 3: gunman went into a theater and killed about a dozen 124 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:27,599 Speaker 3: people and injured many dozens more. This one hit very 125 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 3: close to home for Kai physically and emotionally. It was 126 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 3: about a half hour from his house. 127 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 2: For me growing up, you know, I was fortunate enough 128 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 2: to not have to think about gun violence or gundests, 129 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 2: and that was really my first sort of encounter with 130 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 2: the topic. 131 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 3: Right. 132 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 2: I was just starting to grow up, just starting to 133 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:44,160 Speaker 2: think about these kind of topics as a fifteen year 134 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 2: old and really start to think about how how can 135 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 2: we do something about this? 136 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 1: Right? 137 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 2: Like, how could we you know, start to kind of 138 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 2: give away the problem in some way. 139 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 3: And so you had this fifteen year old who saw 140 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:57,359 Speaker 3: this as his calling. He didn't think that he could 141 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:01,040 Speaker 3: stop mass shootings, but he wanted to do something to 142 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 3: try to curb gun violence. And so he really settled 143 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,279 Speaker 3: on this idea of a smart gun, and he began 144 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 3: just chasing after his usual sort of science fair exploits. 145 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 3: He began trying to make prototypes of this smart gun 146 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 3: for science fairs and did quite well at it. He 147 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 3: wins first prize. It's some very prestigious science fairs, and 148 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 3: this gets the attention of there's a gentleman named Ron 149 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 3: Conway in Silicon Valley who's a very famous angel investor. 150 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 3: After Sandy Hook, another tragedy shooting, he had been looking 151 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 3: to fund some smart gun type technology and so Kai 152 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 3: got a fifty thousand dollars grant as a high schooler 153 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 3: to pursue the prototype some more. And so he just 154 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 3: kept at it. He went to MIT, he was there 155 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 3: for two years. He wasn't able to work on his 156 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 3: prototypes as much since it was a university setting and 157 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 3: they didn't want him experimenting in his dorm room. But 158 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 3: he worked a lot on his business plan around what 159 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 3: a company might look like. That made this and after 160 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 3: two years at MIT and a gap year, he dropped out. 161 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 3: And then Peter Tiel, one of the most prominent and 162 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 3: controversial venture capitalists in Silicon Valley, one of the original 163 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 3: backers of Facebook. He actually has this program called a 164 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 3: Teal Fellowship where he pays usually undergraduates one hundred thousand 165 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 3: dollars to drop out of college and start a business. 166 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 3: And so, so Kai had already dropped out, but he 167 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 3: was qualified for this Teal Fellowship, So he got one 168 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars to formally create Biofire as a company. 169 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 3: And so at that point he's around twenty years old, 170 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 3: and he starts this company. He hires a couple people, 171 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 3: he keeps working on these prototypes, and at that point, 172 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 3: after a little while, he moves the company from Boston 173 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 3: back to Colorado. 174 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 1: And you spend quite a bit of time with him 175 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:48,959 Speaker 1: when you were reporting the story. 176 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 3: What's he like. He's sort of this old soul. He's 177 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:55,679 Speaker 3: just always incredibly well prepared for any question you can 178 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 3: send his way. He could tell you all the merits 179 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:02,559 Speaker 3: of smart guy us back and forth. He's clearly an engineer. 180 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 3: I mean, he could talk very technically about this guy. 181 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 2: I've been working on smart guns broadly for over ten 182 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:10,680 Speaker 2: years now. It's about forty percent of my life, which 183 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 2: is sort of scary thing about. I was always an engineer. 184 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 2: There's some pretty hilarious photos out there of me, like 185 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 2: running around at like summer camp with an electional engineering textbook. 186 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 2: I think everybody thought I was just absolutely insane. And 187 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 2: so I'd always loved building things. I'd done a whole 188 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 2: series of different projects, none of which had any i think, 189 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 2: like societal value or anything, but were you know, just 190 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 2: ways for me to learn and you know, try lots 191 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 2: of different things. Yeah, and so I started thinking about 192 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 2: this concept of a smart gun, and in particular, after 193 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 2: I started digging too this again, I was no expert 194 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 2: on gun deaths or public health issues or anything like that, 195 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 2: I started to realize that, to my surprise, over two 196 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,199 Speaker 2: thirds of all gun deaths are the result of suicides 197 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 2: and access. That was true ten years ago, it's true 198 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 2: today as well. In fact, the percentage has only gotten larger. 199 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 2: And so where you know, what I'd heard about was 200 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 2: always the mass shootings, the violent crime homicides. The fact 201 00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 2: that two thirds are the sort of like silent you 202 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 2: know kind of portion where you almost never hear about 203 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 2: suicide and access right really sort of startled me. And 204 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 2: it also lends itself to an engineering or technical based 205 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 2: solution much more effectively. 206 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: Can you describe it? What does it look like? How 207 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 1: does it work? 208 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:19,319 Speaker 3: It's called the biofire smart gun. It's a handgun. It 209 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 3: looks quite similar to standard handguns, very similar to a glock, 210 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 3: except it's a bit larger. It's got all of this 211 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 3: electronics packed in there, so you know, around the handle, 212 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 3: the grip it's a bit fatter, it's quite larger where 213 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,719 Speaker 3: there's a battery. I should mention this is a it's 214 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 3: an all electric gun. It does have some mechanisms inside 215 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 3: of it, but at it's heard it's an electric gun 216 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 3: and so and then you know on the grip it's 217 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 3: got a fingerprint sensor. And then right at the back 218 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 3: it would be a bit above your hand if you're 219 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 3: holding the gun, there's this facial recognition system. And then 220 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 3: there's a little device that goes with it. It's about 221 00:10:57,480 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 3: the size of a smartphone. They call it a dock 222 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 3: and that where you can can figure up to five 223 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:05,599 Speaker 3: people have their put their fingerprints on, have it recognize 224 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 3: your face, and so you become this registered user. 225 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 2: Basically when you first plug it in, it walks you 226 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 2: through the onboarding screen and then you can enroll your 227 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 2: biometrics basically directly to the firearm. Just like all the data, 228 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:18,320 Speaker 2: this is stored encrypted locally on the device, biofire has 229 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:20,679 Speaker 2: no access to your biometrics. We don't process your biometrics anyway. 230 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 2: It's all happening inside of the gun. It walks you 231 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 2: through the steps. You basically grab it a couple times 232 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,559 Speaker 2: to enroll your fingerprints, sort of like old Apple Touch ID. Yeah, 233 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 2: and then you do the same with your face. You know, 234 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 2: you look at it, sort of take your head around, 235 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 2: et cetera, and it captures your fingerprint in your face. 236 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 2: Biometrics stores inside the firearm. From that point forward, the 237 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 2: only person that can make any changes or configuration changes 238 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 2: to the firearm is the owner. You can have permanent users, 239 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 2: you can have temporar users, but basically, you know, let's 240 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 2: say you have a spouse and want them to have 241 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 2: permanent access to the firearm. You can easily enroll them 242 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:49,679 Speaker 2: just via the touch screen. Let's say you have, you know, 243 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 2: maybe a teenage child that you want to take to 244 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 2: the range and only have them have access for an hour. 245 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 2: You can do that as well, and then it'll be automatically. 246 00:11:55,880 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 3: Disabled in full transparency. In my experience on this demo, 247 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 3: it was a little finicky when my finger went on there. 248 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 3: Other people seem not to have that problem, and I 249 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 3: was shooting a prototype which the company said they had 250 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 3: noticed this fingerprint issue and have fixed it on the 251 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 3: gun that's actually going to go on sale. But you 252 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 3: do not have to have both the fingerprint and the 253 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 3: facial recognition work and so on. The couple instances where 254 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 3: my finger was a little off, the facial recognition had 255 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 3: already seen me and the gun was ready to fire anyway. 256 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 3: And yeah, I tested it out. They had a firing 257 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 3: range there, and only the people who had gone through 258 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 3: this process were able to have anything happen when they 259 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 3: pulled the trigger. I had sort of two rounds at 260 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 3: the shooting range, all standard ammunition. It worked pretty flawlessly. 261 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 3: So when you walk up to this gun, it also 262 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 3: has a sensor just for somebody's presence, So as you're 263 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 3: walking up to it, this white light sort of goes 264 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,959 Speaker 3: off and that signals, hey, the gun knows somebody's getting 265 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,319 Speaker 3: near it, somebody's about to hold it, and then right 266 00:12:57,400 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 3: when you pick it up, your finger sort of naturally 267 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 3: to this sensor and as you're picking it up, the 268 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,960 Speaker 3: facial recognitions looking for you in this green light comes 269 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 3: on the gun, which means you know, now it's ready 270 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 3: to fire. And you know, I mean, it just never glitched. 271 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 3: We had people come in who were not registered and 272 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 3: try to fire it. Like I said, in the past, 273 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 3: demos have been the undoing of many of these weapons, 274 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 3: and this one worked flawlessly. 275 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: And so you say it has a button for a 276 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 1: trigger as opposed to a traditional trigger. 277 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 3: It has an actual trigger. The trigger might as well 278 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 3: be a button. It could be anything, because the trigger 279 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 3: is not actually connected to the firing mechanism. It's what 280 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 3: you would call fire by wire. It's sort of like 281 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 3: a modern car. When you hit your brakes in the car, 282 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,959 Speaker 3: it's really just sending a software signal to your brakes, 283 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 3: and this is very very similar. You pull the trigger 284 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 3: and they've made it feel given it some resistance to 285 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 3: feel like a trigger, but it's really it's just sending 286 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 3: a signal to all these computing systems that are throughout 287 00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:57,559 Speaker 3: the gun. 288 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: And how long after sure you pick it up, are 289 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: you able to fire? Is it immediate or just take 290 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: a while to figure out who you are? 291 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 3: It was way faster than I ever would expect. It 292 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 3: goes faster than like human perception. You know, this presence 293 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 3: sensor really does notice when somebody is already coming near it, 294 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 3: and when I pick it off the table, any change 295 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 3: in weight. It knows now there's a human who's touching 296 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 3: this thing, So it sort of puts it in this 297 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 3: primed state. And then the second it catches your face 298 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 3: or your fingerprint, we're not quick enough to notice the 299 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 3: time it's less than a millisecond. 300 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: After the break. Who will buy this gun and who won't? 301 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: And since it's an electronic device, does it suffer from 302 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: the usual things of software updates? So the battery is 303 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: going to die or it'll become obsolete in a few years, 304 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: Whereas you know, somebody who owns an analog gun can 305 00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: keep that thing forever and it'll just keep working. 306 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 3: This is a really triggy issue. There's a couple things 307 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 3: I could say that are basics that, yes, you have 308 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 3: to keep this charged. The company says it takes about 309 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 3: an hour to charge it up, and it'll last for 310 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 3: months in that state and be ready to fire. There's 311 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 3: also the computing device I mentioned is it serves also 312 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 3: as a dock, and so you can leave that plugged 313 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 3: in the wall and have the gun in there if 314 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 3: you so choose. On the updates thing. Now, this is 315 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 3: where there's like controversy because a lot of people in 316 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 3: the pro gun rights crowd have not been a fan 317 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 3: of these guns being connected to the internet, having any 318 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 3: sort of information about the owner who's firing it, seeing it, 319 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 3: you know, as another means of sort of government control 320 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 3: or trying to track where you are. And so the 321 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 3: gun itself has no wireless communications, no Bluetooth, no Wi Fi, 322 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 3: no Internet. 323 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 2: It's totally off the grade, right, and that's because you know, 324 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 2: we've got a pretty streme links to ensure that all 325 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 2: the data that's inside of the firearm is encrypted. It 326 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 2: can never be accessed by anybody, including biofire and it's 327 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 2: or very securely inside of the fire arm. 328 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 3: Right. 329 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 2: Our customers do very clearly do not want us to 330 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 2: have some sort of ability to access additional data anything 331 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 2: like that, and so we've worked with some of the 332 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 2: best folks in the cybersecurity space to design what is 333 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 2: honestly a massively overdesigned cybersecurity implementation to ensure that everything 334 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 2: is encrypted locally on the device using credentials that are 335 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 2: generated by the device during manufacturing that biofire has no 336 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 2: access to. We further enhance that security by having it 337 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 2: be wired only. Right, there's no wiress communication in the firearm. 338 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 2: There's no ability to wirelessly talk to or potentially disrupt 339 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 2: the functionality of the fireman anyway. 340 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 3: If you choose to update the gun, you can connect 341 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 3: it to this dock and update the software that way. Otherwise, 342 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 3: you can also just leave the dock completely off the Internet, 343 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 3: and the company says, you know, it'll fire for many 344 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 3: years without doing any updates, so you can sort of 345 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 3: choose which lifestyle you want to lead. 346 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: The gun movement has been against the development of smart 347 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: guns for all kinds of reasons for a long time. 348 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: How are they responding to this one. 349 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 3: Nobody's really seen this, and I'm quite curious to see 350 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,159 Speaker 3: how the gun advocates react to this thing, because I 351 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 3: do think it's certainly far more sophisticated than anything's come before. 352 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:10,119 Speaker 3: So I think this is sort of the moment where 353 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 3: we find out what happens when something that actually works 354 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,880 Speaker 3: is out there and how people react to it. There 355 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 3: have been attempts in a couple states to begin putting 356 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 3: legislation in place for if a smart gun that is 357 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:28,159 Speaker 3: viable exists, this is how we're going to react to that. 358 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 3: New Jersey's sort of the most famous or infamous example, 359 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 3: depending how you want to look at it. But they 360 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 3: had put a law into place which said if a 361 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 3: viable smart gun was available, they wanted the entire industry 362 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 3: to move towards smart guns and require that to be purchased. 363 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 3: And as you can imagine, people got extremely upset and 364 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:51,679 Speaker 3: you hated the idea that they were going to be 365 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 3: forced to buy something. And this happened at a time 366 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:58,120 Speaker 3: when when a real smart gun really didn't even exist, 367 00:17:58,160 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 3: and so it was a huge blow to the smart 368 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 3: gu gun advocates because it was sort of going through 369 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 3: all this turmoil before you even had a product that 370 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 3: could maybe test and appeal to people and show them 371 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 3: the capability of this technology. And so New Jersey, after 372 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:15,439 Speaker 3: many years, changed that law and now it really is, 373 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,439 Speaker 3: if a smart gun exists, you must at least carry 374 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 3: one of these in your store. And so it's pulled 375 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 3: back a lot. In California many years ago, there was 376 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 3: a company that had an early smart gun prototype and 377 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 3: one of the stores that was quite excited to sell it. 378 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 3: They faced all these protests from people and it never 379 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 3: even got to the shelves. They had to pull it 380 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 3: from the shelves due to all this controversy. 381 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: Is there any concern that if you have a smart 382 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 1: gun you sort of have a false sense of safety 383 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,719 Speaker 1: and security in how a gun works and how you 384 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:49,359 Speaker 1: have to behave around a gun. 385 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 3: Yes. The gun rights advocates I talked to basically said 386 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 3: I was a problem number one in some of this, 387 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 3: and that I am the kind of person who is 388 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 3: not that comfort around guns but sees this as a 389 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 3: safer option, might be something I would bring in my house. 390 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 3: But they said, look, you're you're not going to go 391 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 3: do classes, You're not gonna go do training. You just 392 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,440 Speaker 3: become this huge problem. We end up just putting more 393 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 3: guns into the supply overall, and now we have a 394 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 3: class of people who are not doing the work that's 395 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 3: needed to really operate a firearm safely, and now they 396 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:26,119 Speaker 3: have guns. 397 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: And what is the argument from gun advocates again, smart 398 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:32,640 Speaker 1: gun technology, except for they don't want to be told 399 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: what they can buy and not buy. 400 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 3: That's probably reason number one is we see where this 401 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:39,680 Speaker 3: is heading, You're just gonna start putting more and more 402 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 3: controls on what we can do. Then it quickly because 403 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,479 Speaker 3: we can't really trust these guns. I'm not gonna trust 404 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,879 Speaker 3: my life to some computer gadget that I don't know 405 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 3: if it's going to work or not. And so that's 406 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:55,400 Speaker 3: where the argument begins. Some of the more nuanced arguments 407 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 3: would be around does this even make sense? You know, 408 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 3: if somebody is the type person that has a loaded 409 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 3: weapon in their house that their child might find, is 410 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:06,919 Speaker 3: that the same person who's going to go out and 411 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:09,399 Speaker 3: buy a smart gun that, at least for now, is 412 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 3: more expensive than a regular gun. People do concede that 413 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 3: this could help with the prevention of suicides by putting 414 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:21,120 Speaker 3: this extra hurdle, and the numbers there are quite high 415 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 3: on the number of suicides that happened per year, although 416 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 3: the you know, the gun rights advocates say this even 417 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 3: there would be a relatively small percentage. 418 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: I want to note here that Michael Bloomberg, who's the 419 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:34,640 Speaker 1: founder and majority owner of Bloomberg LP, the parent company 420 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 1: of Bloomberg News also founded every Town for Gun Safety, 421 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: which advocates for gun safety measures. How are they actually 422 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:44,879 Speaker 1: marketing this gun. 423 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:49,120 Speaker 3: It's interesting because Biofire and Kai Kai has been at 424 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 3: this so long and he's seen these past mistakes, so he, 425 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 3: for example, has lobbied against efforts to mandate smart guns. 426 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 3: He does not want the gun to be seen as 427 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 3: this enemy of gun right. 428 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 2: One of the really key tenants to the way that 429 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 2: I've approached this, which I think is is pretty critical 430 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 2: the success that we've seen so far is we're looking 431 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 2: to offer a choice, right We're looking to offer a 432 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,159 Speaker 2: choice that doesn't exist in the market right now, and 433 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 2: we think there's going to be a whole lot of 434 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 2: people that are going to choose to purchase our product. 435 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 2: And that's awesome, right, Like, we're looking to build successful business. 436 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 2: But at the same time, if people don't feel like 437 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 2: our purchase are fit for their use case, their environment, 438 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 2: their experience, their situation, that's great, right. Like, there's lots 439 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:34,920 Speaker 2: and lots of other competitive products in the market traditional firearms, 440 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 2: and they're welcome to purchase any of those obviously, or 441 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:37,920 Speaker 2: not purchase environm at all. 442 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:43,200 Speaker 3: And the company is also not going after police forces 443 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:45,639 Speaker 3: and the military first, which is where I thought it 444 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,159 Speaker 3: would head, But it is actually pitching their handgun. It 445 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 3: really people like me first and foremost, somebody who would 446 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,160 Speaker 3: consider having a weapon in their house to protect their 447 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 3: family and wants the safest possible option of that. There 448 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 3: are many people who would argue consumers only will be 449 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 3: sold on this if they see police forces use it first. 450 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:09,479 Speaker 3: So it's an interesting strategy. 451 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 1: When we come back. If smart guns like this one 452 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: are shown to work, will the government start requiring makers 453 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: to adopt this technology. You said that he's been very 454 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,919 Speaker 1: careful not to antagonize gun advocates. Did you ask him 455 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,360 Speaker 1: where he comes down on things like federal background checks 456 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: and limiting sales of guns on the internet and gun shows, 457 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 1: which are real points of conflict between gun advocates and 458 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 1: gun control advocates. 459 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 3: He tends to take the middle ground on all these 460 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,400 Speaker 3: things of never saying something that's really going to upset 461 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 3: the NRA too much, but also trying to you know, 462 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 3: his mission is safety. The whole origin story of this 463 00:22:56,080 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 3: company is to try and save lives, and so High's 464 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 3: very polished. I found it interesting, he said he fired 465 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 3: guns a little bit as a kid growing up in Colorado. 466 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 3: Mostly I think hunting well, mix of hunting and going 467 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,199 Speaker 3: to the shooting range. But since then, he has quite 468 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 3: a number of guns now and has become quite an 469 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 3: enthusiast on his own. 470 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: On the other side, have gun control advocates embraced his 471 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 1: smart gun technology? 472 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, gun control advocates historically have embraced smart 473 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 3: gun technology. I think Biofire has been a little secretive 474 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,919 Speaker 3: about this particular weapon that's just going on sale, and 475 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,920 Speaker 3: so we don't have a lot of public reaction to 476 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 3: it yet. I think that's going to hit as our 477 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 3: story goes out and people discover this weapon for the 478 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 3: first time. There's been a number of researchers, both at 479 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 3: universities and the government who have been studying this issue 480 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:55,919 Speaker 3: for about thirty years and produced data saying why they 481 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 3: think smart guns will work. It was unsatisfying. Part of 482 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 3: this story is that we just have no idea because 483 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 3: you've never had this product out in the world to 484 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 3: see what actually happens. And so I have to confess 485 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:10,919 Speaker 3: I went over a ton of the data. You know, 486 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 3: it felt like a little flimsy to me, just because 487 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:15,440 Speaker 3: it's hypothetical. 488 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: So if someone wants to buy one of these things, 489 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,959 Speaker 1: they didn't really exist yet, but they're about two. How 490 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:23,719 Speaker 1: do you go about buying one? 491 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:28,120 Speaker 3: Right you could? You go to Biofire's website and right 492 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 3: now you would place a pre order. I think it's 493 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 3: roughly around two hundred dollars just to get in the 494 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 3: line to place your order, and then you're gonna have 495 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 3: to pay about thirteen hundred dollars more. So it's around 496 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,680 Speaker 3: fifteen hundred dollars for this gun. And the company is 497 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,640 Speaker 3: saying they want to see how many pre orders come 498 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 3: in the first people who order it. They expect to 499 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 3: deliver the weapon early next year, they're saying. And I 500 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 3: asked them if you could buy this in all fifty states. 501 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 3: They did not have a great answer for me. And 502 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 3: so there are some restrictions in some states around buying 503 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 3: newly developed weapons. And it's going to be in the 504 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 3: United States only for a bit, and people have to 505 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 3: check what's going on where they live. 506 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 1: Are they prepared to manufacture this at scale or is 507 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 1: this going to be kind of a boutique item. 508 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,920 Speaker 3: I went to their headquarters, which is ostensibly where they're 509 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,919 Speaker 3: making them by hand right now, and they are going 510 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 3: to set up an assembly factory, which they have not 511 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 3: set up yet, and so to me, this is a 512 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,959 Speaker 3: huge question. This is always a major test when you 513 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 3: go from a something that's beyond a prototype, but it's 514 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:36,400 Speaker 3: this early model technology object to making lots of them 515 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,880 Speaker 3: tends to be quite hard. I mean, again, go back 516 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,119 Speaker 3: to Tesla. They suffered through years and years and years 517 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,919 Speaker 3: of struggling to just make their car, even after they 518 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 3: had it dialed in. So I think that's a huge question. 519 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 3: I really got the sense that they are waiting to 520 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 3: see what happens when they turn this ordering website on 521 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 3: and how much reaction there is to try and gauge 522 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 3: what they have to prepare for. 523 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 1: Have they gone the Silicon Valley route and trying to 524 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 1: get a lot of seed money the way startups do. 525 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 3: They've raised about thirty million dollars in total, which is 526 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 3: a mix of venture capital and private investment. There's been 527 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:20,199 Speaker 3: people who have been along side Kai for most of 528 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 3: this ride who have put money in. The most prominent 529 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 3: backer is still Peter Teel via his venture capital fund 530 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:31,120 Speaker 3: Founder's Fund, which is the major backer of the company. 531 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 3: Thirty million dollars for a manufacturing company is not a lot. 532 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 3: And so these pre sales I think are going to 533 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:37,879 Speaker 3: have to do some work. 534 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:43,160 Speaker 1: When you look ahead at this technology and the idea 535 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,679 Speaker 1: of these smart guns, where do you see it going 536 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: If this gun is primarily intended or marketed to prevent accidents. 537 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: A lot of accidents happen with hunting rifles, with modern 538 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,679 Speaker 1: sporting rifles some people call them, other people call them 539 00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 1: assault style rifles. Can we expect this technology start popping 540 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:02,160 Speaker 1: up on long guns. 541 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 3: There are efforts to do that, and some companies have 542 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 3: created prototypes, have gotten weapons like that in the hands 543 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,159 Speaker 3: of the military. It's the same sort of story I 544 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,439 Speaker 3: poked around all their websites. It says, we have this gun, 545 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 3: we just don't have enough demand to manufacture a lot 546 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 3: of them, but we could do it if you wanted it. 547 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 3: I have to say, you know, I went into this 548 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 3: so skeptical. Things have not gone well in the smart 549 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 3: gun world for the last twenty twenty five years, and 550 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 3: I have to say, I mean, at least just as 551 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 3: a gun and as an object, it was impressive. The 552 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 3: more I used it, the more time I spent seeing 553 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 3: how it worked, it just it feels inevitable. Why would 554 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 3: you not use something like this if it works well 555 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 3: and exists? 556 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 1: Ashley Mance, thanks for coming on the show. Thank you, 557 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to us here at The Big Take. 558 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,400 Speaker 1: It's a daily podcast from Bloomberg and iHeartRadio. For more 559 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 1: shows for my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 560 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,399 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen, and we'd love to hear from you. 561 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,879 Speaker 1: Email us questions or comments to Big Take at Bloomberg 562 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 1: dot net. The supervising producer of The Big Take is 563 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:18,680 Speaker 1: Vicky Burgalina. Our senior producer is Catherine Fink. Rebecca Shasson 564 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 1: is our producer. Our associate producer is Sam Gebauer. Phil 565 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: de Garcia is our engineer. Our original music was composed 566 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: by Leo Sidrin. I'm West Kasova. We'll be back tomorrow 567 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 1: with another Big Take.