1 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of Couch 2 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 1: Talks on You Need Therapy podcast. My name is Kat 3 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: and if you're new and don't know what couch Talks is, 4 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: it is the special bonus episode of You Need Therapy 5 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: where I answer questions that you send to me and 6 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: you can send those to Katherine Ka t h r 7 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 1: y n at Therapy podcast dot com. And I always 8 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: like to remind you, guys that although I'm answering your questions, 9 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: this podcast still does not serve as a replacement or 10 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:46,520 Speaker 1: a substitute for any actual mental health services. Let's get 11 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:48,880 Speaker 1: to our question for the week, and a quick reminder. 12 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:52,639 Speaker 1: I usually answer one question per week and they always 13 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: remain anonymous so you can feel safe setting in your question. 14 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: So here it is. Hi, Kat, I recently started listening 15 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: to your podcast and have found it to be really helpful. 16 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: I am hoping that you will consider my question for 17 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: an upcoming Couch Talks episode. I recently had dinner with 18 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: a friend who I have known for many years. She 19 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: shared some things that made me very uncomfortable. She told 20 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,680 Speaker 1: me that she is cheating on her husband with multiple men, 21 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:22,680 Speaker 1: and she has no intention of stopping. I listened and 22 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: tried not to act judgmental. However, I was shocked and 23 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: felt a pit in my stomach because I completely disagree 24 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: with her actions. At the end of the dinner, my 25 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: friend thanked me for not judging her. While I'm glad 26 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:37,960 Speaker 1: she felt like she could talk to me, I am 27 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: not sure if I did the right thing by not 28 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 1: telling her that I think her actions are wrong. I 29 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: am really nervous to hang out with her again, and 30 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: I'm not sure if I can do it. She is 31 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: very different than the person I thought she was. Do 32 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: you have any advice on how to navigate a situation 33 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: where a friend is engaging in a behavior you strongly 34 00:01:54,280 --> 00:02:01,559 Speaker 1: disagree with? Thanks? Okay, so this one was I wanted 35 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: to say it was shocking to read, but as a therapist, 36 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: there really aren't that many things that shock me anymore 37 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 1: because I hear so many of the secrets that people 38 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 1: don't really share that often. I think what was shocking 39 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: to read was more that she told you so flippantly 40 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: it sounded and there wasn't a lot of desire to 41 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,679 Speaker 1: change the behavior or feelings about the behavior that you 42 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: shared with me. I don't know really how that was. 43 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: I can imagine feeling extremely caught off guard in the situation, 44 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: and you know, I thought about you and you sitting 45 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 1: there and trying to figure out what to do and 46 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 1: how to react. And I think when we're trying to 47 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,799 Speaker 1: be in quotes good people, we get really in our 48 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:47,360 Speaker 1: heads about what that actually even looks like. So we 49 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 1: have this flashing like headline that says, don't be judgmental, 50 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,519 Speaker 1: don't be judgmental, don't be judgmental, And so then we 51 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: become really accepting of literally everything. And so I wanted 52 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: to just say, first off, that you can be a 53 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 1: good person and still have judgments about people. Everybody has 54 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: judgments about people. And I know that might sound kind 55 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: of strange to hear a therapist say, hey, I think 56 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 1: it's okay to judge people, But I live in a 57 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:19,239 Speaker 1: world where I accept that judgment is a natural part 58 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: of life. It's something that just happens, and what we 59 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: do with the judgment is more important than whether or 60 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 1: not we have them, because then we get to make 61 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: really conscious decisions and we get to be in charge 62 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: of those. And I'm really curious about a lot of things, 63 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 1: So I'm going to throw out a lot of things 64 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: at you to think about, and I want anybody who 65 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: might have a similar situation like this. It doesn't have 66 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: to be as extravagant or big as this dilemma, but 67 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: I want anybody to kind of like just take in 68 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: some of these questions that might help you in the 69 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 1: future as well. I'm very curious as to what you 70 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: did say in this conversation because you said you didn't 71 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: want to act judgmental, and I think there's a difference 72 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: in saying, oh, good for you, like cheering some on 73 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: because you don't want to be judgmental, and then taking 74 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: like a more neutral stance like oh, I wasn't expecting that, 75 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: and not really giving an opinion on what you think 76 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: about that behavior. And what I want to do is 77 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: turn this a little bit on you versus focusing on 78 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 1: your friend and what she's doing. It sounds like you 79 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:20,479 Speaker 1: might have been more concerned with how she was perceiving 80 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 1: you than how you were actually feeling. So I would 81 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: be very curious about what did come up. What was 82 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:31,039 Speaker 1: uncomfortable about what she was saying. I felt uncomfortable because 83 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: is a sentence that you might want to try to finish, 84 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: or I think what she's doing is wrong, because might 85 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: be something for you to try to complete as well. 86 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: I suppressed my thoughts because just kind of answer some 87 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: of those sentence stems and see what comes up, and 88 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:51,479 Speaker 1: that might lead you to a need or more information 89 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:56,039 Speaker 1: about really what was going on with you underneath that, 90 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 1: I don't want this person to feel judgment. Something else 91 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,479 Speaker 1: I might add ask is why don't I want her 92 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,239 Speaker 1: to feel judged? What do I want her to feel? 93 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:08,359 Speaker 1: And am I responsible for those feelings? Do I have 94 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 1: the ability to change somebody's feelings? Might be some more 95 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: questions that might be helpful to answer. I also am 96 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 1: wondering here what it would have been like to get 97 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: really curious about why she was sharing what was going 98 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 1: on and what she was looking for. I don't have 99 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 1: clarity on that from the email, and I don't know 100 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: if you had clarity on that, if she said there's 101 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 1: a reason she was telling you or what she wanted 102 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: from you, then based on that, you might have felt 103 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: a little more inclined to be honest about what it 104 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 1: was like for you to hear that stuff from her 105 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 1: those confessions. Now I'm making the assumption that you don't 106 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: want to throw this friendship away. Else I don't know 107 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: that you would take the time to write this email. 108 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 1: So another thing I'm curious about is what is it 109 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 1: that you would need to repair this friendship. It sounds 110 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 1: like your friend doesn't even know that there might be 111 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 1: any kind of rupture, and so what do you need 112 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: to repair that? And is it something that requires her 113 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:08,039 Speaker 1: knowledge of the rupture That is dependent on what that 114 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 1: first answer is. Now depending on that, it might be 115 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:15,840 Speaker 1: really helpful for you to take yourself into account and 116 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: maybe share with her a bit about the aftermath of 117 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: that conversation and what it was like for you, what 118 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 1: it brought up for you after you've kind of answered 119 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: some of these questions and you've really had clarity to 120 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 1: think about it. And you can approach that super simply 121 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:31,919 Speaker 1: by saying, Hey, are you open to hearing some things 122 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: that came up for me when we met last time 123 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 1: and we talked about X Y Z. And if she 124 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: says yeah, then you have an invitation to share your experience. 125 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: And I also would encourage you to let her know 126 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 1: what you're looking for, just like I asked, do you 127 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: have clarity on what she was looking for? It's really 128 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: helpful in conversations to ask for what we need, so 129 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: we can show up for our friends in the best way. 130 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: In those circumstances. You don't have to tell her what 131 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: she's doing right or what if she's doing something, but 132 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: you can share how it felt for you to be 133 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:06,159 Speaker 1: in a position like that. And again, I don't know 134 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:08,359 Speaker 1: a lot of the details of this conversation how it 135 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: even came about, but one thing that I imagine would 136 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: probably come up for me and something that I might 137 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: share would be, Hey, it felt like you were wanting 138 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: me to keep a secret that goes against my moral compass, 139 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: and I didn't feel like I had a choice in 140 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: that matter. And it's becoming really distressing from me because 141 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: this is something that I am not able to keep 142 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: a secret from other people that are involved that I 143 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: love and care about. That's something that I would probably 144 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: say even if I, like you, came back around after 145 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: this conversation was over and was able to sit with 146 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 1: it for a little bit. One thing that I don't 147 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: believe as a human being is that all of our 148 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 1: friends have to have the same exact beliefs and morals 149 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: and values as us. And it is true that the 150 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: people around us, the people that we spend them most 151 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: time with they do rub off on us. We do 152 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: actually learn from the people around us. They influence our behavior, 153 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: they influence our thoughts, They even can influence our language. 154 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: So I want you to know that so you can 155 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: actually feel really empowered in making a decision that is 156 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: right for you based on what is right and good 157 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: for you and best for you, and not you trying 158 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: to maintain what the world says is right and wrong. 159 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: Because while it's okay to have friends with different belief 160 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 1: systems and different values and all of that, it's also 161 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 1: okay to have limits and boundaries. That's totally okay too. 162 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: That doesn't mean you're unkind. That doesn't mean you're a 163 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: mean person. That doesn't mean you're a bad person. That 164 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that you're a shamefully judgmental person. I think 165 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 1: it's really important to pay attention what it feels like 166 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: to be with certain people, because when it feels like 167 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 1: I have to sacrifice what is true for me in 168 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:59,319 Speaker 1: the presence of another friend, one, I'm getting some codependency 169 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: vibes in there. But two, when we pay attention to 170 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 1: that and we see, oh, I'm getting this vibe right here, 171 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 1: then we actually can turn that and attune to what 172 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: we actually need. It helps us actually get what we 173 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 1: need versus give other people constantly what they need. And 174 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: again I want to remind everybody that there are not 175 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: especially when it comes to this kind of situation. There's 176 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: not a black and white right or wrong answer. There's 177 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: not like one thing for you, Hey go do this, Hey, 178 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 1: go say this, Hey, go tell that person this. Hey, 179 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: there's not that. There are decisions that are best for us, 180 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: and those are going to be different based on who 181 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:37,839 Speaker 1: we are, which influences what we want, what feels good, 182 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 1: what feels harmful, and what is going to actually lead 183 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: me into being and having the life that I actually 184 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 1: want to have. Okay, So I hope that was helpful. 185 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 1: As always, I threw some questions at you to ask yourself. 186 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 1: I threw some examples of things that might come up, 187 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: and again I just want to remind you that there 188 00:09:56,280 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: is no right or wrong universal thing to do here. 189 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 1: There is something that is right for you and the 190 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: moment that you're in, in the space that you're in 191 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: with what you need to kind of live and be 192 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: the human you want to be. So tough situation, really 193 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 1: tough situation, jarring situation. I'm sure shocking situation. I assume 194 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: you weren't expecting that conversation to go the way it did, 195 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: so good luck. I'd be really interested to see how 196 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: you handle this and how that worked in what you learned. 197 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: If you want to ever send us update, I would 198 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,439 Speaker 1: appreciate that, And for everybody else listening, feel free to 199 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: send your emails Katherine at Unied Therapy podcast dot com. 200 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 1: And I hope you're having a day that you need 201 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 1: to have, the moment that you need to have, and 202 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: I will talk to you guys again on Monday.