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Speaker 1: Hi, Hi, Hi, Welcome to another episode of I Saw

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Speaker 1: What You Did. My name is Milly, I'm Danielle, and

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Speaker 1: we're back for another week of movie chats. Danielle, how's

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Speaker 1: it going fine?

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Speaker 2: Fine? I mean it's so weird because I'm like, you know,

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Speaker 2: we're a couple of weeks into the Biden administration. So far,

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Speaker 2: so good, I think, Yeah, we're recording this right after

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Speaker 2: the inauguration, so hopefully by the time it post things

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Speaker 2: haven't gone bonkers. But other than that, yeah, just you know,

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Speaker 2: living in the epicenter of COVID and afraid to leave

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Speaker 2: my house and my neighbor just went to Brazil for

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Speaker 2: two weeks and what Yeah, so this is where we are. La.

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Speaker 2: I cannot even talk about what is happening here without

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Speaker 2: getting so mad that I start screaming.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's I had that moment too, I

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Speaker 1: think at some point where I was like, it was

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Speaker 1: truly like a you can't control what other people do,

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Speaker 1: and if you attempt to, you will die of a

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Speaker 1: coronary event.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, people are trying it, trying it, and it

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Speaker 2: just brings back all these feelings of like being the

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Speaker 2: kid in school who always did the group project, Like

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Speaker 2: I'm always wearing the mask, I'm always doing the stuff.

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Speaker 2: And I look around me and I'm like, oh, you're

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Speaker 2: just hopping on planes going on a vacation. Okay, I

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Speaker 2: guess this doesn't apply to you. Fine, bye bye, have fun.

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Speaker 1: So wait, are they actually there are flights that are

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Speaker 1: going to Brazil?

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Speaker 3: Like it just seems I thought international travel? Am I wrong?

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Speaker 3: I Maybe I just haven't thought about it in so long.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I think certain countries are closed down to us, but

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Speaker 2: I don't know what's happening if you're like a citizen

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Speaker 2: or not. And I think that maybe she's from there,

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Speaker 2: has some family there or something, but I don't know

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Speaker 2: what the protocols are because I'm not going to talk

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Speaker 2: to her for another four weeks. She guess that's yeah,

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Speaker 2: no kidding, Yeah, two weeks gone. But yeah, how are

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Speaker 2: you though? Well?

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Speaker 1: And now I'm about to tell you that I actually

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Speaker 1: went to another state, And now I feel that your

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Speaker 1: judgment cast upon me.

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Speaker 2: You trader Millie.

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Speaker 1: You know, in my defense, I went on a camping trip.

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Speaker 1: I drove myself there. I stayed in my own hotel

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Speaker 1: and my own tent because I actually got there the

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Speaker 1: night before because we left early the next day, and

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Speaker 1: I met friends of mine who are a couple and

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Speaker 1: they are also staying with their elderly parents. So I

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Speaker 1: assessed the risk of everything and thought, okay, this is

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Speaker 1: maybe okay to do you.

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Speaker 2: Play it safe though, Yeah, And there's a difference to

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Speaker 2: be going camping another state and getting on a plane

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Speaker 2: to go to another country, right, there's the difference.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not gonna listen, shame me if you must. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm completely fine with it because at a certain

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Speaker 1: point that is, I did take a risk, no matter

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Speaker 1: how light that I think it was, Like I did

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Speaker 1: take a risk by leaving my house. But yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was to me the safest I could have possibly been.

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Speaker 1: And the place I went to was a national park,

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Speaker 1: so they require people to wear masks, and you had

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Speaker 1: to wear masks on the ferry because basically I went

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Speaker 1: to is an island that no one can just drive to.

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Speaker 1: You basically have to take a ferry there and we

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Speaker 1: could just get kind of dropped.

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Speaker 2: Off there by the ferry, which is interesting.

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Speaker 1: Like pretty much, and there's really kind of nothing there

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Speaker 1: after a while, like there's a camp grounds, that they

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Speaker 1: provide that has like you know, real like an outdoorsy

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Speaker 1: kind of shower, outdoorsy toilet.

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Speaker 3: But for the most part, like you have to bring

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Speaker 3: in all your food, all your water.

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Speaker 1: There's nothing there on the island unless you go like

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Speaker 1: to the north part of the island, and then you

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Speaker 1: will find like multi billionaire families that like own property,

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Speaker 1: which is very interesting, but it takes a while to

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Speaker 1: get up there anyway, So who the fuck wants to

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Speaker 1: go and like hang out with like weird rich people.

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Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, it was super fun.

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Speaker 3: I needed it in a way that I.

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Speaker 1: Don't think I realized when I was planning it, because

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Speaker 1: I was completely cut off. I didn't have I thought

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Speaker 1: I was going to have phone, and I actually didn't

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Speaker 1: really have phone. Definitely no internet, and it's wild. There's

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Speaker 1: so many wild animals around. Did you see any Hell yeah.

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Speaker 2: Okay, what are the wild animals that you saw with? Okay,

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Speaker 2: you're once you say, I have had no phone, I

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Speaker 2: had no signal, I had no internet, and I'm seeing

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Speaker 2: wild animals. I gotta know what's happening.

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Speaker 1: And I will say too, I drove three hours away

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Speaker 1: from where I'm sitting right now. So it wasn't like

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Speaker 1: I went to I didn't need to go to Brazil.

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Speaker 1: I just literally went three hours and saw wild animals,

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Speaker 1: which I think is kind of weird, and I guess

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Speaker 1: I forget that sometimes that I'm like, yeah, I live

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Speaker 1: in a city, but also like, the wilderness is not

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Speaker 1: that far away.

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Speaker 2: I saw.

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Speaker 1: The place that I went to is known for having

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Speaker 1: wild horses, meaning that they're majestic and beautiful, but also

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Speaker 1: scare the fuck out of me.

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Speaker 2: Like I mean, real wild horses are not like, they're

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Speaker 2: not cute and the way that you expect horses to

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Speaker 2: be cute, because they're not tamed at all, so you

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Speaker 2: can't even just observe them safely because they will trample

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Speaker 2: through your life, right from what I understand exactly.

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Speaker 1: So, first of all, wild horses don't look like the

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Speaker 1: horses that you see at like the Kentucky Derby. They're

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Speaker 1: like thin, and you can see their ribs and they're madden,

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Speaker 1: you know, they're not brushed like they're fucking wild, and

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Speaker 1: they kind of just travel like in these little clusters

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Speaker 1: and they're just eating stuff. And then you're told when

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Speaker 1: you go there, don't touch our feed them because they

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Speaker 1: will fucking kick you or trample you. And I took

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Speaker 1: that shit to heart, and let me just tell you why.

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Speaker 1: Because so we get off of the ferry and the

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Speaker 1: people that had camped from the previous night were gone.

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Speaker 1: We're waiting for us to get off so we could

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Speaker 1: get onto the ferry. There's a single woman who's waiting.

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Speaker 1: She's got like her entire oliver gear. She looks fucking cool.

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Speaker 1: She's like a middle aged woman, and of course I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I need to talk to her, and so I just

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Speaker 1: kind of went up to her and said, oh, so

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Speaker 1: did you just camp on the island And she's like, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've been coming here since like nineteen ninety five and

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Speaker 1: it's like my safe place. I love it here. I

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Speaker 1: camp by myself here. And I'm like, yeah, that's really impressive.

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Speaker 1: I'm camping for the first time here. I'm kind of

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Speaker 1: nervous about it. But you know, now you're in SPA

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Speaker 1: firing me if you could, if you could be here

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Speaker 1: by yourself, then I'm inspired to be here.

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Speaker 3: With two other people, right.

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Speaker 1: She said, yeah, you know, And I said, did you

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Speaker 1: see any animals? And she said yeah, actually, uh, yesterday

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Speaker 1: I was on the beach and I was walking and

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Speaker 1: I and ahead of me, I saw this figure that

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Speaker 1: I thought was a person, and I get closer and

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Speaker 1: I realized it's actually a horse.

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Speaker 2: Wild hours on its hind legs.

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Speaker 3: The horse was running towards her.

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Speaker 1: She didn't even realize it was moving, and she she

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Speaker 1: until she got closer, and she was like, this horse

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Speaker 1: is going to trample me. Except at the very last minute,

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Speaker 1: apparently some park ranger drove up in a jeep and

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Speaker 1: drove the jeep between her and the horse, and the

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Speaker 1: horse like pivoted and went into another direction.

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Speaker 2: You turned like or like hopped over the jeep. It

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Speaker 2: was like, fine, I'll go get the.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and she and so I'm like looking at her

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Speaker 1: with my mouth completely open and my eye and I'm like, so,

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Speaker 1: are you just telling me that it was a great time.

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Speaker 1: You were cool, except you might have died because you

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Speaker 1: were gonna.

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Speaker 3: Get charged by a horse, and.

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Speaker 1: If it hadn't been for some random park ranger, you

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Speaker 1: would be dead.

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Speaker 3: And she's just like, yeah, but you know what, that's

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Speaker 3: like never happened to me before, so what.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, death doesn't tend to happen until it does. That's

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Speaker 2: how death works usually. And then it was literally like she.

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Speaker 1: Went, Okay, we'll have a good time bye. He got

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Speaker 1: on the ferry and I was like, we're getting trampled

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Speaker 1: by fucking horse people.

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Speaker 3: Like I was like, holy shit, this just changed the

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Speaker 3: game for me.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, we saw the wild horses, and then I

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Speaker 1: sat there in stone cold fear that they were gonna

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Speaker 1: come at us.

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Speaker 3: Luckily they didn't.

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Speaker 1: And I even saw baby horse, which was so cute,

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Speaker 1: like a little baby horse. But yeah, I saw fucking

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Speaker 1: wild horses.

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Speaker 3: I saw wild turkey. I've never seen a wild turkey.

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Speaker 2: Wild turkeys are scarier to me than wild horses because

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Speaker 2: wild turkeys are they're loud and weird, and they're faster

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Speaker 2: than you think they're gonna be, and they got that

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Speaker 2: plume going listen.

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Speaker 1: I love animals, but I'm also not a goddamn fool

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Speaker 1: Like I'm like, animals they're getting their revenge on us

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Speaker 1: all the time because we've destroyed the environment, we've destroyed

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Speaker 1: their habitats, we've tried to domesticate them, when a lot

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Speaker 1: of times they just want to be fucking.

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Speaker 3: Free in the world.

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Speaker 1: You know, especially in Florida, people love to domesticate weird

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Speaker 1: ass shit in Florida.

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Speaker 3: I'll tell you that right now.

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Speaker 1: And I'm just like, I don't want to approach them

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Speaker 1: and be like, oh, let's have like a fucking like.

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Speaker 2: Winnie the Pume moment.

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Speaker 1: Hell, motherfucking like, You're instinctially going to kill me if.

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Speaker 3: You think that I'm threatening you. And that's the end

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Speaker 3: of the story.

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Speaker 2: I had a friend who got she got bitten by

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Speaker 2: a dog who was tied up outside of a grocery store,

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Speaker 2: like a regular ass domesticated dog that she went to

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Speaker 2: pet tied up outside of a grocery store and had

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Speaker 2: to get a tetanis shot. Yeah, stop thinking pets are

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Speaker 2: staying like. I've been bitten by two dogs in my life.

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Speaker 1: One was at work, which is fucking crazy, and the

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Speaker 1: other one was when I was a kid, like you know,

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Speaker 1: hanging out of the neighbor's house. So I've had this experience.

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Speaker 1: I've had dogs turn on me.

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Speaker 3: It's not fun.

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Speaker 1: In spite of it, I love animals, but I still

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Speaker 1: know not to fuck with them. And so when I

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Speaker 1: see a wild turkey or a wild horse, I'm like, no,

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Speaker 1: thank you, lovely to see you, but I'm going away

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Speaker 1: from you.

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Speaker 2: Did they walk through the campsite at all or was

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Speaker 2: it just like they kind of knew their part of

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Speaker 2: the island was over here, and well.

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Speaker 3: I'm not gonna lie.

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Speaker 1: We had an overnight encounter on the last night, so

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Speaker 1: my tent, okay, was fairly far off from my friends.

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Speaker 1: The campsites are really big, definitely more than six feet

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Speaker 1: maybe like thirty six feet okay, So it was really

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Speaker 1: like it was really late, like two am. I started

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Speaker 1: hearing human footsteps what I assumed it was human footsteps,

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Speaker 1: and I was thinking, oh, it's like somebody, it's one

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Speaker 1: of my friends who was like up in the middle

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Speaker 1: of night or something looking for something.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 1: I shined my flashlight and it just kept moving around

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Speaker 1: the tent and I'm like, uh, this is it.

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Speaker 3: Like it's a wild horse. It's gonna stomp us, you know.

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Speaker 1: Then I heard a big crash and I heard a

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Speaker 1: lot of rustling, and I was like, okay, I just

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Speaker 1: need somehow I'm gonna try to.

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Speaker 3: Sit here quietly and not get completely freaked out. It

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Speaker 3: lasted for about an hour.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry what this this ruckus was an hour long?

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, literally every muscle is so tense in

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Speaker 1: my body, and I'm like, oh my god, like what

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Speaker 1: is outside this tent?

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Speaker 2: You didn't pick your head of that tent once?

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Speaker 1: No, because I don't want the situation where I've seen

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Speaker 1: too many horror movies where somebody opens a door and

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Speaker 1: then just get slashed across the base by like a

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Speaker 1: bear paw or like you know, something like that, or

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Speaker 1: like you know, or worse, it's like a murderer. It's

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Speaker 1: like a murderer the mache just the door opens and

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Speaker 1: the machete slices my face in half. So, no, I

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Speaker 1: did not open the door. I was like, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: wait till no sound, then I'll open the tent flap.

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Speaker 2: So you just listen to a horse on its hind legs,

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Speaker 2: because this is what I'm all I'm envisioning now, is

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Speaker 2: like a horse walking towards people on its hind legs, charging,

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Speaker 2: just stomping around like it's on a runway, just stomping

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Speaker 2: around your campsite for an hour. How do you even

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Speaker 2: did you even sleep?

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Speaker 3: No, that's why I'm fucking look at this.

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Speaker 2: Look at the bags my eyes.

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Speaker 1: I'm pounding diet doctor Pepper's I'm like in a state

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Speaker 1: because I literally didn't sleep for like three days while

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Speaker 1: I was out there. So I waited an hour and

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Speaker 1: then I finally like put my head lamp on and

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Speaker 1: went out there, and.

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Speaker 3: I it was like, whoever showed up?

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Speaker 1: I have a feeling it's a raccoon because they're apparently

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Speaker 1: they're not bears.

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Speaker 3: On the island, thank fucking god.

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Speaker 1: But it was the thing where it was like somebody

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Speaker 1: partied at our campsite.

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Speaker 3: Somebody took a cooler, an.

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Speaker 1: Actual like it glew cooler, knocked it over all the

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Speaker 1: shit was popped out of it. Like my friend hung

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Speaker 1: his backpack on the bare pole. You know that they

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Speaker 1: give you the pole or whatever. Yeah, somebody had somebody

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Speaker 1: quote unquote somebody aka and a wild animal pulled the

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Speaker 1: backpack off of the pole, opened it like a human being,

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Speaker 1: opened the clasp and pulled the thing out and like

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Speaker 1: ate a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, some fucking cheese slices.

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Speaker 1: They stole like the beeswax wrapper from you know, it

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Speaker 1: was like the hippie beeswax wrappers from the sandwich.

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Speaker 3: Threw it across the fucking yard.

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Speaker 2: This could have been a murderer, like it could have

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Speaker 2: been a very savvy raccoon or an actual human murderer

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Speaker 2: who was like, I'm hungry. No one's coming out of

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Speaker 2: their tent, I might as well eat.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I can only imagine that it was like

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Speaker 1: the part of sixteen Candles when Jake Ryan comes downstairs

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Speaker 1: and like his entire fucking like living room is trash

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Speaker 1: and there's like a pizza on the record player.

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Speaker 2: That's that's what.

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Speaker 3: This campsite looked like. It's like and I just sat

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Speaker 3: there and listened to the whole fucking thing happened.

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Speaker 2: So it's like a raccoon on an old school flip phone,

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Speaker 2: like come party at the spot. I just punch it

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Speaker 2: in that like old school text playing snake. I'm glad

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Speaker 2: you were safe. Did you have anything else to eat

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Speaker 2: while you were rifle through?

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Speaker 1: That's the one thing that is great about going camping

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Speaker 1: as an older person is that you have too much

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Speaker 1: fucking food to eat. We had the stupidest I mean,

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Speaker 1: we brought capers who brings capers camping? I had pesto,

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Speaker 1: like glass jar of organic pesto. Yes, we had soup,

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Speaker 1: a charcoutery board like it was so dumb that's why

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Speaker 1: these fucking raccoons showed up because they were like, okay,

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Speaker 1: they went to gil Sins or something like.

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Speaker 2: They went to the fancy grocery store and now you

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00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:10,760
Speaker 2: are the Gelsons of the woods. To them, like, we're like,

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Speaker 2: boo boo boo boop, come to the spot. They got

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Speaker 2: a sharcoonerie born and capers. We haven't had capers in years.

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Speaker 2: Bee boo bee boo boop.

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Speaker 1: These are no blooney sandwiches on iron kid's bread. This

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Speaker 1: is fucking three meats.

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Speaker 3: So stupid.

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Speaker 2: But anyway, have this too.

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Speaker 1: Thank you National Park Service. Thank you wild animals for

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Speaker 1: not killing me beautiful.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so let me ask you.

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Speaker 1: Though, because you had like an animal incident too, like today, right,

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Speaker 1: I was. I was looking at your timeline going, uh oh,

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Speaker 1: some shit went down?

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Speaker 3: What happened?

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Speaker 2: All? Is well? I have a cat. His name's Carrot.

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Speaker 2: We've y we have a very respectful roommate relationship happening.

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Speaker 2: I love him very much.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, it sounds like he kind

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Speaker 1: of runs that shit a little bit.

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Speaker 2: I had a box made for his litter box, like

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Speaker 2: he's getting custom made furniture. So He's definitely winning out

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Speaker 2: in this relationship one hundred percent.

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Speaker 1: When this guy has filtered, Like I walked in your

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Speaker 1: kitchen when you were at the old place, and I

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00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:29,920
Speaker 1: saw this water fountain that was continuously spray filtered water

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Speaker 1: in like a beautiful fat like a fountain that you

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Speaker 1: would see at like in a New York City park.

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, yeah, like a sculpture park. This cat

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Speaker 2: is hooked up. He has like a little ceramic bowl

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Speaker 2: with a wooden stand for his food, because he likes

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Speaker 2: to kick when he eats, like he's he's always done

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Speaker 2: this and since we since we met each other, Like,

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Speaker 2: he likes to kick when he eats, and I think

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Speaker 2: it's like I call him a trash cat. I think

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Speaker 2: it's like his old trash cat memory where he had

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Speaker 2: to fight for food. Yes, And so when I use

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Speaker 2: metal bowls, it sounded like somebody running a cup on

341
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Speaker 2: the bars of a jail every morning. And I'm like,

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Speaker 2: I can't wake up like this. I can't do it.

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Speaker 2: So I have a little ceramic stand, like a ceramic

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Speaker 2: bowl with a wooden stand. He has a mid century

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00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:18,080
Speaker 2: modern fucking shit box for his litter box. It like

346
00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:22,480
Speaker 2: you've seen it. It's a fucking handmade in mid century

347
00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:27,640
Speaker 2: modern shelf, his fucking litter box. This cat is solid,

348
00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,600
Speaker 2: and then this week I love him to bits. He's

349
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:32,680
Speaker 2: a male cat. He doesn't do a lot of dry food.

350
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Speaker 2: It's it fucks with their urinary tract for some reason.

351
00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,360
Speaker 2: But I switched to a litter that kind of measures

352
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:43,399
Speaker 2: their urine, and so the urine the ur analysis based

353
00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:46,480
Speaker 2: on the litter is that his alkaline was high, and

354
00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:49,040
Speaker 2: that usually means that they have a urinary attract infection.

355
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Speaker 2: So I called his vet, who's a home His vet

356
00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:54,719
Speaker 2: does home visits. Also again spoiled. You think my doctor's

357
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:58,439
Speaker 2: coming to my house hooked up. I mean, if I

358
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:00,720
Speaker 2: need a mammogram anything, anyone's coming squeezed by tis in

359
00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:04,439
Speaker 2: my own house. No, So she's she's really great. She

360
00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:07,919
Speaker 2: comes over and like you know, she took a bladder

361
00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:12,440
Speaker 2: sample or you're a sample, and then she hooks this

362
00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:16,080
Speaker 2: cat up to an ivy bag for fluids, like you

363
00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,000
Speaker 2: know those those ladies in Beverly Hills who are like

364
00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:19,919
Speaker 2: I would just like you get some vitamin B or

365
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:23,080
Speaker 2: like it was jack, so it's something they got drunk

366
00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:24,879
Speaker 2: and they're like I just need to do like an IVY.

367
00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:25,840
Speaker 2: That's my cat.

368
00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:28,720
Speaker 3: It's like those episodes of vander Proper Roles where.

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Speaker 1: They've been on like a nine day bender and they

370
00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:35,480
Speaker 1: just need literally need fluids and jected into their veins

371
00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:39,880
Speaker 1: because they've like not they've only consumed alcohol. And then

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00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,280
Speaker 1: they have like those people show up in the episode

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Speaker 1: to give them the ivs.

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Speaker 2: It's like a like a priv for cats, like they

375
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Speaker 2: So she shows up and she's like, he's chilling on

376
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Speaker 2: the couch. She's got the IVY and she's just pumping

377
00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:53,840
Speaker 2: fluids just in case they were like crystals or whatever.

378
00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:56,720
Speaker 2: And I'm looking at the scene and I'm like, I

379
00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:58,840
Speaker 2: guess I'll go back to work now so my cat

380
00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:02,680
Speaker 2: can keep getting ivy. Flu would push through his body

381
00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:05,440
Speaker 2: just because he's too lazy to drink out of the

382
00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:07,720
Speaker 2: high falutin water fountain I got for him.

383
00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:13,600
Speaker 1: His home health nurse is giving him fluids based on

384
00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:17,840
Speaker 1: the reading from a extremely fancy cat litter.

385
00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:22,000
Speaker 2: I mean, listen, listen. Three things are true right now. One,

386
00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:30,080
Speaker 2: I make too much money to do carrot. It makes

387
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:35,320
Speaker 2: too much money. Three, somebody needs to give me the

388
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:37,720
Speaker 2: hell out of La where the shit is normal. And possible.

389
00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:40,159
Speaker 2: I need to be in the middle of a country

390
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:44,240
Speaker 2: road scenario where I'm like, oh, you're feeling bad, You'll

391
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:46,119
Speaker 2: figure it out. You're a cat, go talk to your

392
00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:48,360
Speaker 2: horse friends or like, have a country vet come see

393
00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:49,920
Speaker 2: you and tell you to just like get your shit

394
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,960
Speaker 2: together and not bring an ivy for you to like

395
00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:56,440
Speaker 2: And he was just chill. I couldn't you have never

396
00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:00,840
Speaker 2: seen a cat more chill in your life. Just needlestick

397
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:02,639
Speaker 2: it like he does this every week, just a needle

398
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,600
Speaker 2: full of fluids. Thankfully, he's fine, his labs came back,

399
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,800
Speaker 2: Everything's okay. Alkaline's a little high. So now I had

400
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,880
Speaker 2: to get him some cranberry choose some like little high

401
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,479
Speaker 2: falutant treats. Now I am that Dave Chappelle's sketch come

402
00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,040
Speaker 2: to life. They should have never given me money because

403
00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:21,480
Speaker 2: I am spending it all on this cat and it

404
00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,159
Speaker 2: is an imbalanced situation. When I met him, he was

405
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:26,919
Speaker 2: in a cage in Union Square, in the middle of

406
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:30,160
Speaker 2: New York. And now his life is somehow better than mine.

407
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:34,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, now he's at No Boo with Drake on the

408
00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:36,240
Speaker 1: fucking rags like completely.

409
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,719
Speaker 2: But let me tell you though, I will tell you this.

410
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:43,000
Speaker 1: I know people who are fucking dead ass broke that's

411
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:48,240
Speaker 1: still trade their cats like that, like that are still.

412
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,120
Speaker 3: Like buying all of the bougie cat stuff.

413
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,880
Speaker 1: It's truly because we love animals so much, and he's

414
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:56,840
Speaker 1: all I have right now.

415
00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,320
Speaker 2: He's it, So if anything happens to him, my whole

416
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,120
Speaker 2: life is a fil right now. Also, you have been

417
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:04,359
Speaker 2: in the car with me when I have started going

418
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,920
Speaker 2: ham on those stores that are like just for dogs,

419
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,120
Speaker 2: with like the fucking dog food in the fresh refrigerator,

420
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,080
Speaker 2: like you're in Gelson's actually, and I'm like, what there's

421
00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:16,639
Speaker 2: like unhoused people lined up in front of the store

422
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,359
Speaker 2: where the dogs are getting fancy like that shit drives

423
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,600
Speaker 2: me crazy. And now I have no argument because I

424
00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,200
Speaker 2: looked at my life yesterday and I was like, guess what, bitch,

425
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,760
Speaker 2: you're doing the same thing your fucking cat. You think

426
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,200
Speaker 2: you're like better than the dog people with the fresh

427
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 2: food in the refrigerator. No, look at this fucking cat

428
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:34,960
Speaker 2: she's got, Like, I'm surprised I haven't hired two people

429
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:36,960
Speaker 2: to carry him around in a sedan just because he's

430
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:41,320
Speaker 2: like tired from walking from the bedroom to the bathroom. Oh,

431
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,119
Speaker 2: my god, I can't complain anymore because like when I

432
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,400
Speaker 2: adopted this dude, that was the bargain is I will

433
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,399
Speaker 2: take care of you, and so that's what I'm doing.

434
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:52,560
Speaker 1: Do you ever think what if I had had a

435
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,919
Speaker 1: kid instead of a cat, what would the kid be like?

436
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,040
Speaker 3: Would the kid get this attention? Would it get fuck?

437
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:06,000
Speaker 2: No? And I do think about this, and everyone should

438
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 2: be glad I have a cat, because if I have

439
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 2: a kid, I'd be like, uh uh, You're gonna wear

440
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,880
Speaker 2: those shoes until you can feel the concrete on your toenails.

441
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,600
Speaker 2: I am not buying you a Nintendo switch. You're gonna

442
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:21,679
Speaker 2: read a book. You're gonna get a library car Like

443
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,680
Speaker 2: it would be Oliver Twist compared to what this cat gets.

444
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:28,359
Speaker 2: There's no comparison. And I don't know. I didn't have

445
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,640
Speaker 2: a pet growing up, but I did have a bad childhood,

446
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:32,640
Speaker 2: So I think that's where that distinction comes in sure,

447
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 2: because I guess, well, I had a pet like a

448
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,160
Speaker 2: little bit, but not like for most of my childhood.

449
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 2: So it's like, no kids. Once you are a car,

450
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,800
Speaker 2: you want to have a cognitive thought. You're one of us, Like,

451
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,920
Speaker 2: you don't get to just have shit Plus, here's the thing.

452
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,480
Speaker 2: You can spoil a pet and still live in harmony.

453
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:53,439
Speaker 2: You cannot spoil a child and live in harmony, like

454
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,120
Speaker 2: even in your own house, and you're unleashing that shit

455
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,199
Speaker 2: on the world. If Carrot starts acting out, it's just

456
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 2: me and him boxing in here.

457
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 3: Yeah exactly.

458
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 2: If you raise a kid to be like that, hell

459
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 2: no no. But yeah, he put me through it this week.

460
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:10,359
Speaker 2: But it's okay. It only happens every once in a while.

461
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 2: But it did make me think because he's like I

462
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:16,920
Speaker 2: think he did. There was definitely something going on, because

463
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:18,679
Speaker 2: I can tell he feels a little bit better. And

464
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,719
Speaker 2: you know, like there's always coyotes just screaming in my neighborhood.

465
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,919
Speaker 2: So last night there were all these coyotes screaming, and

466
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 2: he went to the front door and he was sitting

467
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,479
Speaker 2: there looking out the like my whole front door is

468
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 2: like glass, and so he's like looking at the front

469
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:36,199
Speaker 2: And this has happened several times where there are feral

470
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 2: cats and neighborhood cats that just hang out in our

471
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 2: yard and he goes berserk when he sees another cat.

472
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 2: So you can tell because they'll start like like pacing

473
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,240
Speaker 2: back and forth. I'm like, like, he looks like he's

474
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 2: like shouting as much as he can in human style.

475
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:51,399
Speaker 2: There's something else out there. So he was doing that

476
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 2: at the front door, and I'm like, dude, not let

477
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 2: me turn on this light and see that there's a

478
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 2: coyote out there because I can't today And this has

479
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,199
Speaker 2: happened before. Where the last time he did this. I

480
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,200
Speaker 2: went out and I turned on the light. There was

481
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 2: another orange cat that looked exactly like him outside, and

482
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 2: I'm like, why am I in the movie us? All

483
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,160
Speaker 2: of a sudden, what is happening? I will post that picture.

484
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:14,680
Speaker 2: I will post that picture because I looked at that

485
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 2: and I'm like, someone's gonna die to night, and I

486
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:20,440
Speaker 2: think it's me. Oh my god, these two were scheming.

487
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:23,159
Speaker 2: So I went and I turned on the light and

488
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:30,919
Speaker 2: I looked at him the steps. There was this like

489
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:35,679
Speaker 2: fluffy white cat who looked like she just like floated

490
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,359
Speaker 2: out of a little cartoon, and this bruiser looking like

491
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 2: gray Tabby just sitting at the bottom of the steps

492
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 2: staring up like there we're gonna fuck some shit up.

493
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 2: And I'm like, is this a gang? Are they your friends?

494
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 2: Like I could not tell what was going on, but

495
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 2: he was so heated that they were even like in

496
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 2: his view, and those cats were just like what's up?

497
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 2: So now I have like a cat gang more going

498
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 2: on my steps, and like, I don't know, he's feeling himself.

499
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:03,719
Speaker 2: He's feeling better. The cat gangs are back on. Occasionally

500
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 2: we'll hear one like throw itself against the glass of

501
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 2: the front door, like they're trying to box.

502
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 1: Because it knows that there's fucking good food and good

503
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 1: water and a mid century modern design within reach. Ass

504
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 1: shit box in there, so they're like, how can we

505
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,959
Speaker 1: propel ourselves into this house? I will literally walk through

506
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,199
Speaker 1: the glass door to live with this woman who treats

507
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:27,879
Speaker 1: cats this nice.

508
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 2: Just throwing themselves against the door, and Karen's like scratching

509
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:34,400
Speaker 2: at the dar. I'm like, guys, come on, like, let's

510
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 2: let's bring it down a notch. Yeah they can't. It's

511
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 2: it's pretty hilarious. But yeah, he's allways, well, this is

512
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 2: part of what comes with pet ownership, where occasionally you

513
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 2: just get really freaked out. But he's back to be

514
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 2: in his little princely self.

515
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 3: Oh well, I'm glad he's okay. I'm glad that no

516
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 3: animals or humans died in the past week. That's great.

517
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 2: I mean, look, it's not a horse on hind Leans

518
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 2: no matter how you slice it, a little raton be

519
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 2: boop boop. I think they have salmon and locks and

520
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,959
Speaker 2: they ask them how have cream cheese and it's still fresh?

521
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 2: Come hang out?

522
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 1: Or these stupid people with these expensive things and how

523
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 1: can we access them?

524
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 2: How did they think we weren't going to show up

525
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 2: and party like they basically set out a bad signal

526
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 2: in the shape of like the stone kitchen logo. Oh

527
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,159
Speaker 2: my god, oh the animals this week? Well we have

528
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 2: a we have a good show and good movies and

529
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 2: good themes. But this is also a special month for us,

530
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 2: yes me especially.

531
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 1: You want to talk about it a little bit, Yeah,

532
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 1: very special months, trademark.

533
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 2: It's Black History Month. It's February. You know what time

534
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,239
Speaker 2: it is. We celebrate diversity all day every day on

535
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 2: I saw what you did. But this month in particular

536
00:26:53,720 --> 00:27:00,119
Speaker 2: is a real celebration of black creativity and black directors.

537
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 2: And you know some of the au tours that we've

538
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 2: brought up in other conversations, like when we had that

539
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,959
Speaker 2: conversation about Melvin Bent Peebles, and I'm excited for that.

540
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 2: I think that I don't know if you feel the

541
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 2: same way, but I feel like culturally there's been I

542
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 2: wouldn't even call it a backlash, but I think that

543
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 2: people are kind of reluctant in a way to celebrate

544
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,199
Speaker 2: Black History Month because they feel like it's reductive and

545
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 2: it's the shortest month. You know, Black History, you know,

546
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 2: should be celebrated every single day, and of course it should,

547
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 2: but when you look at the world we're in now,

548
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 2: I think any chance that you can celebrate something that

549
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 2: is is meaningful to you as your culture or your

550
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,679
Speaker 2: race or where you're from, it's necessary to take the

551
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 2: time to do that.

552
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, And I mean I think it's it's

553
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: a good time to sort of.

554
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 2: Do a themed month.

555
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: We've never done one before, and it's going to be

556
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: able to give us the opportunity to kind of make

557
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: a through line between all these different type of movies

558
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: across the span of what four weeks, So the next

559
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 1: four episodes will be about movies that feature black directors,

560
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 1: black artists.

561
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 3: It's gonna be great.

562
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: But yeah, I to me, you know, that's obviously a

563
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 1: question that's sort of like not for me to answer

564
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 1: in a way, it's that do we take the moment

565
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: to recognize the holiday even though you're right, we should

566
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 1: be processing these feelings like every single fucking day, right.

567
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 3: Especially with movies.

568
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 2: I mean, we talk about this all the time.

569
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 1: It's like a lot of Hollywood film history was not

570
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,679
Speaker 1: hospitable or even open to black.

571
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 3: People for a very long time. It's still that way.

572
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 1: And this is like a subject that we can get

573
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 1: into as this episode goes on, because we're actually going

574
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: to talk about one person today who I think is

575
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 1: I personally think is a very neglected black filmmaker and

576
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 1: black artists.

577
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 2: And again, like if you're a listener, you know that

578
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 2: this is part of what we talk about anyway. This

579
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 2: is not we're not singling something out as a way

580
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 2: to say like, well that's never have to talk about

581
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 2: that again. I think that this is just a heightening

582
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 2: of what we already where we already come from when

583
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 2: it comes to this show and the movies we watch,

584
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 2: which is we're gonna pick stuff we like, we're gonna

585
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 2: pick stuff that's cool. But we've never done a themed

586
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 2: month before. So watch out Arbor Day, watch Out Sibling Month,

587
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 2: or whatever the fuck we're gonna start trying it, but

588
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 2: we're gonna start with Black History Month. And again, I

589
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 2: think in this cultural moment, it's never far from my

590
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 2: mind how little people know about black creators and black

591
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 2: artists and black directors and black films and black culture.

592
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 2: It has been relegated to a part of our cultural

593
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 2: understanding that doesn't get the accolades it deserves, I think

594
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 2: most of the time, which definitely comes up with this

595
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 2: week's theme. And it's also for me personally, like I

596
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 2: I don't even know how to say this, like this

597
00:29:55,000 --> 00:30:00,959
Speaker 2: might be too heavy for this podcast, but I feel like,

598
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 2: so I grew up in a predominantly white town. And

599
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 2: when I say predominantly, I mean I could count the

600
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 2: people of color in my town growing up on one

601
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 2: and a half hands, and I was related to four

602
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 2: of them. So I grew up in a household that

603
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 2: insisted on my blackness in a town that wanted me

604
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 2: to deny it, and that was a really hard place

605
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 2: to come from. And what I've discovered eventually is that

606
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 2: I was out of touch with my own blackness for

607
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 2: most of my life, and I felt like I didn't

608
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 2: have a right to it because I didn't grow up

609
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 2: in the monolithic way that most people tend to think

610
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 2: of blackness in this country. And it took me longer

611
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 2: than I like to admit, but also longer than it

612
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 2: should have for me to feel comfortable being who I

613
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 2: am and also claiming blackness, which isn't to say that

614
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 2: I've ever denied it, but just to publicly claim blackness

615
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 2: is an act in America that a lot of us

616
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 2: have to do quite intentionally. And you know that the

617
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,479
Speaker 2: history of light skin, blackness and passing, and you know,

618
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 2: I'm not someone who can pass, but I definitely understand

619
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 2: the history of colorism and advocating for people with darker

620
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 2: skin because people with lighter skin do get more of

621
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 2: a pass sometimes doesn't mean they're passing, but it means

622
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 2: they get more of a cultural pass, you know, like

623
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 2: we get opportunities sometimes, or the way that we're perceived

624
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 2: is as if we're different from people who have different

625
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 2: shades of skin than us. So just making the effort

626
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 2: to do that in my life and to be intentional

627
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 2: about my blackness is it's something I'm still learning, I guess,

628
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 2: And again, it's like almost embarrassing to admit that or

629
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 2: to say that. But I think that's why this stuff

630
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 2: matters to me so much. It's because I don't get

631
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 2: very many chances to like explore what blackness means to

632
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 2: me and are.

633
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 3: I mean, I can't imagine what that must be like.

634
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 1: And I just feel like, I'm just glad that you've

635
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: shared that with us, because I feel like, I mean,

636
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 1: it makes people understand the importance of why you're here

637
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 1: right now, being on this podcast talking about film and

638
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 1: talking about your experiences.

639
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, and it was it's been important since

640
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 2: we conceived of this show, you know, like years averter,

641
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 2: like five hundred years ago, was it four hundred thirty.

642
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 3: Six hundred and five?

643
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 2: I think, yes, fears ago we decided we decided to

644
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 2: do this show. That was a big part of it,

645
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 2: is that, you know, we've both had conversations with each

646
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 2: other about feeling as if, you know, because of our

647
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 2: racial background, were kind of instantly held up to be

648
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 2: the speakers or you know, the people who are like

649
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 2: the cultural gatekeepers of things that are that we didn't

650
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 2: grow up with, you know, in our white towns or whatever,

651
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 2: and that we also have to learn about and had

652
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 2: to learn about, like I remember being you know, and

653
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 2: I think a lot of a lot of black kids

654
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 2: have had this experience where if you did grow up

655
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 2: in a predominantly white town, you were the black history.

656
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,959
Speaker 2: So I think that it's, yeah, like it's part of

657
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 2: the reason why it's important to me that we are

658
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 2: here and that I am constantly finding ways to have

659
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 2: platforms to explore that voice because I did not have

660
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 2: that for so long in my own life.

661
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: The spectrum I think that we're going to show over

662
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: the next four weeks is going to be really kind

663
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 1: of interesting in terms of, you know, you're going to

664
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 1: see people who have been commercially successful and have made

665
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: a lot of money making movies and people who absolutely

666
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: haven't and kind of sadly died in obscurity. It's going

667
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 1: to be really interesting, and I'm just I'm glad that

668
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 1: you're here. I'm glad that we're doing this month me too.

669
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: I hope that you guys have either seen these movies

670
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 1: and maybe we'll like hear about them in a different

671
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 1: way or have it it all.

672
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 3: And are curious, because it's a win for us either way.

673
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think also like what this month is

674
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 2: really about is talking about value and how and why

675
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,320
Speaker 2: different artists are valued, and how and why different types

676
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 2: of art are valued, and what are they valued at

677
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 2: and who are they valued for. I mean, there's just

678
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 2: a lot of valuation that comes from the film world

679
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,760
Speaker 2: and who gets to have credence or not and who

680
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 2: gets to have legacy or not. So Millie No, having

681
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,399
Speaker 2: all of this background information, now all this lead up,

682
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:41,879
Speaker 2: do you want to introduce our theme?

683
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 3: Sure?

684
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 1: You know, when we first were coming up with this

685
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: schedule for the month and when we were talking about

686
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,840
Speaker 1: the movies that we wanted to talk about, we realized

687
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 1: that there was like a person that's in common and

688
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,439
Speaker 1: that person is a man by the name of Bill

689
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 1: Gunn and he much like Melvin Van Peebles in the

690
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:08,840
Speaker 1: episode from last week, he.

691
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:09,720
Speaker 3: Was a true artist.

692
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 1: He was a playwright, He was an author. He wrote

693
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 1: books as well as plays. He was a director who

694
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: was an actor. He studied acting in New York City

695
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 1: and was friends with all those people that you think

696
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 1: about in the fifties, James Dean, Montgomery, Cliff Earth a kid.

697
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 3: He lived with Nina Simone's brother at one point in

698
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 3: New York. So he was living that like artist lifestyle.

699
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 3: You know, like he was. You can just see him.

700
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:45,240
Speaker 1: Sort of hang out in New York being an artist, writing, acting,

701
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 1: hanging out with other artists.

702
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 2: And really straddling that line between like you know, the

703
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:55,359
Speaker 2: jazz age and like bohemia. You know, like he very

704
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 2: much came of age during those two times, I think totally.

705
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 1: And he wrote a couple screenplays that were produced by Hollywood,

706
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: including this Hall Ashby movie called The Landlord, and then

707
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 1: he made his own films at some point. And I

708
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 1: will say this, the first movie that he made, which

709
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 1: was for Warner Brothers in nineteen seventy, was never released,

710
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 1: and the rumor is that it had homo erotic undertones

711
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 1: and that was something they didn't want to put out

712
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 1: at the time, which is crazy. And then his film

713
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 1: that he directed that Danielle was about to talk about

714
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: was hard to find for a very.

715
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 3: Long time, which is something we'll also talk about.

716
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: But it's this idea that he was a true artist.

717
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: He was working at the same time that the new

718
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: Hollywood cinema was happening. So the Scorsesees, the Paul Schraders,

719
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 1: the Woody Allens, all these people, all of the new

720
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: blood that came into Hollywood sort of after the studio era.

721
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: He was there for that, but for some reason he

722
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 1: was not a part of it. And you have to

723
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 1: kind of ask yourself why that happened. Why not give

724
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 1: him the opportunities that all these other white people had

725
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 1: to make his quote unquote art. And we just figured

726
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 1: that the two movies that we picked, he directs one

727
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 1: and acts in one, and they kind of are a

728
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 1: great showcase for somebody who doesn't know anything about him

729
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 1: or wants to know a little bit more about him.

730
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:35,280
Speaker 1: But I honestly think he's like quite an unsung person,

731
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 1: and I feel like, and he unfortunately died I would say,

732
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: pretty early in his fifties, and if he had lived

733
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 1: longer than he lived, who knows what could have happened,

734
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:46,439
Speaker 1: and he could have had so much output, even more

735
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,279
Speaker 1: than he already did. Completely, you know, I just think

736
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 1: that this for this episode, we wanted to just kind

737
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: of give him a spotlight and talk about him a

738
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 1: little bit, you.

739
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 2: Know, because he's the fucking Beth.

740
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 3: It's the best and so interesting.

741
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of I think he might have

742
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 1: been gay, but also you know, had relationships with women,

743
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 1: you know, so he was kind of like a queer

744
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 1: black artist working at this like really interesting time of

745
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 1: which he was kind of shut out of, and that's

746
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,279
Speaker 1: really an interesting place to start.

747
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 2: And really just he was ahead of his time in

748
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 2: so many ways, in so many ways. And one of

749
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 2: the ways we're going to start talking about all of this,

750
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 2: how all of this was encompassed in this one beautiful person.

751
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 2: We're going to jump into our first film, which is

752
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 2: Ganja and Hesse, released in nineteen seventy three, written and

753
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 2: directed by Bill Gunn.

754
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 4: The only perversions that can be comfortably condemned by the

755
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:53,720
Speaker 4: perversions of others. I will persist and survive without gods

756
00:38:53,840 --> 00:39:00,399
Speaker 4: or society's sanction. I will not be tortured, I will

757
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 4: not be punished, I will not be guilty.

758
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,240
Speaker 2: I was way too old when I saw this film,

759
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 2: Like I was just telling Lauren that I feel like

760
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 2: I should have seen this in high school, if for

761
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 2: nothing else then to see the beauty of Marlene Clark

762
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:21,800
Speaker 2: and all of her attitude on screen and with wild abandon.

763
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 2: This is a great film. It's just to give you

764
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 2: some backstory on it. It screened at the nineteen seventy

765
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 2: three conn Film Festival. It was remade in twenty fourteen

766
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 2: by Spike Lee and he called it the Sweet Blood

767
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 2: of Jesus. Haven't seen it again, like you really said,

768
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 2: Bill Gunn hung out with you know, James Dean or

769
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 2: the Kid, Marlon Brandon, Montgomery Cliff Sam Wayman who is

770
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 2: Nina Simone's brother and who was also in this film

771
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 2: as the Reverend. But essentially this movie is about an anthropologist,

772
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 2: doctor hess Green, who is stabbed by a stranger three

773
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 2: times times with an ancient diseased dagger, so now he

774
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 2: can't die or be killed, but he's also addicted to blood.

775
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,280
Speaker 2: And as we start moving through the movie, George Meida,

776
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 2: who is played by Gunn, who is also his assistant,

777
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 2: commits suicide. His wife ends up coming to look for him,

778
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 2: they fall in love. All Hell Breaks loose. I think

779
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 2: I usually end up every synopsis by saying and then

780
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 2: all hell raceless, because it does usually I don't want

781
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:28,799
Speaker 2: to give away the movie, but like, all Hell breaksless.

782
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 2: So what's cool about this film and what's fascinating is

783
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 2: Millie was talking about and hinting towards it was almost lost.

784
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 2: It was panned by critics. It opened and closed in

785
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 2: one theater and the production company took it out of

786
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 2: distribution after it did poorly at the box office. It

787
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,720
Speaker 2: was resold and recut, and Gun hated every the version

788
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 2: of it that he saw, but thankfully an original cut

789
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 2: was donated to the Museum of Modern Art, and without

790
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 2: that we probably would not have this film in its

791
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:05,800
Speaker 2: original tended form. So that is again film preservation still important,

792
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 2: still very important. And what I also like about this

793
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 2: movie is that it's basically it's a dracular story without

794
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:18,760
Speaker 2: European origins, right, But that is intentional. And I've gotten

795
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 2: some of these facts from like Wikipedia, which as a

796
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:23,839
Speaker 2: former college professor, I am ashamed of myself. But here

797
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:27,359
Speaker 2: we are. I'm sorry to all my students who I said,

798
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 2: don't use Wikipedia as a source. Here we are. But

799
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 2: basically I wanted to look up what you know to

800
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 2: see if I could figure out what he had said

801
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:39,840
Speaker 2: about that, and he did say that from the outset

802
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 2: he wanted to use the story of vampirism as a

803
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:48,879
Speaker 2: metaphor for addiction, which again ahead of his time. From

804
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 2: the beginning, he's talking about doctor Green as someone who's

805
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 2: an addict and not a criminal but a victim. So

806
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,399
Speaker 2: it very closely mirrors this like modern narrative we have

807
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:03,759
Speaker 2: about drug addiction and drug culture, and he was just

808
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 2: so far ahead of his time in that way. And

809
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 2: to turn that kind of sympathetic eye towards a black

810
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 2: man who was using drugs or was addicted to this

811
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 2: drug of blood was to me, like just from the outset,

812
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 2: I was blown away. And I just I love that

813
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 2: he had a way to translate those kind of intense

814
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:29,360
Speaker 2: metaphors into like very visually stylistic stories. And it's a

815
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 2: very stylistic film, much like you know Melvin Van Peebles

816
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 2: and some other folks that will talk about this month

817
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 2: and forever. He kind of like he has this way

818
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 2: of intellectualizing his characters that I really really appreciate it. Again,

819
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 2: part of the reason why I wish I saw this

820
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 2: when I was much younger than I was when I

821
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 2: first saw it in my late thirties is because I

822
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:59,399
Speaker 2: really wish that I could have seen just black men

823
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 2: sitting around intellectualizing about like desire and you know, hunger

824
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:11,320
Speaker 2: and really feeding into these philosophical notions that are generally

825
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 2: reserved for moneyed white people. So on film, I should say,

826
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:18,879
Speaker 2: not in real life, but it was just all these

827
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:25,799
Speaker 2: very important representations and wide spanning representations. There's no such

828
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 2: thing as monolithic blackness in a Bill Gun story. And

829
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:33,839
Speaker 2: again fascinating and just blew me away. I really love

830
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 2: this story. I think that it's funny. It's as funny

831
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 2: as it is serious. He really messes around with all

832
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 2: these cool notions of religion and soul. What's her name?

833
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 2: Mabel King, who plays the mom and What's Happening, plays

834
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:53,880
Speaker 2: the Queen of Mercia in this like she's another one.

835
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 2: I feel like we have to have a whole month

836
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:56,720
Speaker 2: just for Mabel King.

837
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 1: Because she's scrooged.

838
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 2: Yes, this is the second mention she kids pop it up.

839
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,839
Speaker 2: We need to dedicate some time to mable gang. But yeah,

840
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,239
Speaker 2: so it's really it's this you know again release in

841
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:12,320
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy three, So it's got that nineteen seventy three

842
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 2: haze and coloring and style, but you really have like look,

843
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 2: fake Blood has come a long way since nineteen seventy three.

844
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 2: It looks like straight up ketchup in this movie, but

845
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:28,799
Speaker 2: it's still fun. It plays. But this story about these

846
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 2: two people and the way that doctor Green's secret is

847
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 2: discovered is just as comical as it is shocking, and

848
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 2: then what happens next is just incredible. It's incredible, and

849
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 2: just again we're flirting. I don't want to go away

850
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 2: to the movie too much, but really walking that line

851
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:53,800
Speaker 2: between consent and desire and when do your desires start

852
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 2: to outweigh someone else's needs and it's it's just a

853
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 2: good movie. It's a really fucking good movie. That's the

854
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 2: way into this film. But mainly when did you first

855
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 2: see it and what was your first thought about it?

856
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:07,880
Speaker 2: And like, how do you feel about it now?

857
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:11,239
Speaker 1: Well, it's funny because I actually did program this for

858
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 1: TCM Underground like many years ago, like when it first

859
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 1: sort of cropped back up in the restoration world. Because

860
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:22,959
Speaker 1: as we will, probably we'll talk about this a little

861
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,799
Speaker 1: bit more, I think with my movie, but maybe some

862
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 1: of the other movies that we're going to talk about

863
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 1: this month.

864
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:30,720
Speaker 3: Distribution is really hard for people of color.

865
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:32,760
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like they make movies and they fucking

866
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:34,880
Speaker 1: fall off the map and no one knows what happened

867
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 1: to them. It wasn't until somebody dropped off a print

868
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 1: at the Museum of Modern Art, right, I mean, it's

869
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:42,879
Speaker 1: that thing from what I understand when Bill Gunn first

870
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 1: made the film, you know, he made it through a company.

871
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 1: They basically said, here's like a bunch of money, make

872
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 1: us like another blackula, make us like a black vampire

873
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 1: movie that's in the blaxploitation style. And Bill Gunn was like,

874
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:00,839
Speaker 1: fuck that shit, I'm bringing you Ganjan and they were

875
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 1: kind of like, oh, okay, so we're gonna have to

876
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:06,280
Speaker 1: cut all this out, all these jibber jabber.

877
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:07,720
Speaker 2: Let's just get rid of all this shit.

878
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 1: And they recut it and it was like ninety minutes long,

879
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,399
Speaker 1: or like not even ninety minutes long or something, and

880
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 1: they named it like blood Couple.

881
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,240
Speaker 2: I want to say, is that right? Blood couple? Yeah?

882
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:22,839
Speaker 3: Let me come on, that's some schlocky b movie shit.

883
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 3: They always do that, and.

884
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:28,879
Speaker 2: It ignores so much of the what's actually happening. It's yeah, blood.

885
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:30,759
Speaker 1: Couple, what are they doing? It's a couple and they

886
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 1: got blood. Let's just call a blood couple. Put it

887
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:37,880
Speaker 1: in the drive in', let's make some money back or whatever.

888
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:40,799
Speaker 3: I had not seen it. I had only heard about

889
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 3: it when I programmed it.

890
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:44,760
Speaker 1: So I kind of programmed it just because I knew

891
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 1: what it was but hadn't actually seen it, and at

892
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 1: the time I had just it's this is.

893
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 3: So complicated, I don't even know if I want to

894
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:53,800
Speaker 3: talk about.

895
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,799
Speaker 1: It, just because when it bolves me meeting up with

896
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 1: this old professor that I had from undergrad and I

897
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,879
Speaker 1: took a class that he taught about vampires.

898
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 3: So at the time the vampire film.

899
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:10,360
Speaker 1: The genre, if you will, was kind of fresh in

900
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 1: my mind, and so at the time I was thinking

901
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 1: about it, I'm like, man, this is a vampire movie.

902
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:16,240
Speaker 2: First of all, they.

903
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:17,880
Speaker 3: Never mentioned the word vampire.

904
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:23,800
Speaker 1: They never say, hey, we're vampires, exactly right, exactly.

905
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 3: They're a blood couple.

906
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 1: But no one's saying that vampires, you know, which is

907
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 1: which I think is interesting. And the funny thing is

908
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 1: is that over the course of the class, I mean,

909
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 1: there's a lot of like.

910
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 3: Generic conventions of a vampire movie. Right, It's sort of like.

911
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 1: They sustain themselves by drinking blood, they are killed by crosses,

912
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:57,840
Speaker 1: they are sexual, highly sexualized. They in order to get

913
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 1: blood from other people must seduce them.

914
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:04,280
Speaker 3: So there's all these like conventions to the genre.

915
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 2: But the funny thing is that I think.

916
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 1: That gonjin hes kind of dips in what it wants

917
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 1: to dip in and subverts the rest totally, because you're

918
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:16,319
Speaker 1: right in the sense that you know it doesn't come

919
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 1: from like I mean, this is not the fucking Bela

920
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 1: Lugosi Christopher Lee vampire shit.

921
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 3: This is something else.

922
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:27,400
Speaker 1: It has more to do with African identity and African

923
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 1: culture than it does with like Transylvania.

924
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 2: Right.

925
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was a lot like now I'm looking at

926
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 1: this film and going, oh, there's all these other vampire

927
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:39,360
Speaker 1: movies that came out after it that are taking a

928
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 1: lot of like what's going on in this movie.

929
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 3: And I don't know if that was intentional or not.

930
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 1: But even the part where there's a part where Marlene's

931
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 1: character is seducing the young man that comes to the

932
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 1: house and it's like a very very emotional, emotional but

933
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:02,399
Speaker 1: very sexual and sexy I would say, scene where they're

934
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 1: kind of like having sex and you know it's clear

935
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 1: that she's about to make him a victim of her.

936
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 2: And it's just black skin.

937
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:15,840
Speaker 1: And there's like glitter and like this it seems like

938
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 1: it's shining like and I don't know if it was

939
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:20,799
Speaker 1: like it seemed like it was actual glitter on there.

940
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:22,319
Speaker 1: I don't know if that was on purpose, But then

941
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 1: that shit reminds me of like, isn't that something from Twilight?

942
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 1: Now where like Twilight, it's like a vampire glitter skin.

943
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 1: I'm just like, okay, like not sure if the people

944
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:36,399
Speaker 1: who made Twilight were watching gonshen Hess, if they were

945
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:37,839
Speaker 1: cool enough to watch gonsen Hess.

946
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:38,959
Speaker 3: But I'm also sort of.

947
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 1: Like it feels like this movie is bucking a tradition.

948
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:47,800
Speaker 1: It's part of a bigger tradition, but also creating a tradition,

949
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 1: which is fucking incredible.

950
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:51,759
Speaker 3: Like what movie does all those things?

951
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:53,319
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? I mean this movie has

952
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 2: one of the most moving church scenes I think I've seen,

953
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 2: and it's about a vampire. So again, like, let's this

954
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 2: It's not that that crosses are you know, deadly to

955
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:06,399
Speaker 2: them instantly. It's like, you know, he's going to church

956
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,879
Speaker 2: for a very specific reason at this point, and let's

957
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 2: show that emotion coming through someone who is not thought

958
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:15,880
Speaker 2: to have a soul, Like what do you what do

959
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 2: you have? Do? I mean, it's just again, mind blowingly

960
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 2: good in the most subtle of ways. How Gun is

961
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:25,400
Speaker 2: like subverting all of these these tropes.

962
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I gotta tell you that church scene I mean,

963
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:31,759
Speaker 1: we haven't even mentioned who. I mean, I don't even

964
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 1: think I can even talk about this a lot because

965
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 1: it might put me in a state.

966
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 3: But Dwayne Jones, I know.

967
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 2: So Dwayne Jones is an actor.

968
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:43,160
Speaker 1: Everyone pretty much knows him from Not in the Living Dead,

969
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:47,400
Speaker 1: and he is like a cultural icon because of that film.

970
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:49,319
Speaker 3: I mean, that was the first time I ever saw

971
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 3: him on screen.

972
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:54,799
Speaker 1: That movie fucks me up, Like say what you will

973
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:58,920
Speaker 1: about it being like a zombie movie, but like the

974
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 1: ending of Night of the Living Dead fucks me up,

975
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 1: and it's political and it's sad and it's true ass shit,

976
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 1: it's like incredible, and he is what makes that movie

977
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:16,480
Speaker 1: so incredible, right, Yeah, So he's in this film.

978
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:18,440
Speaker 3: And he wasn't even actually in a lot of films.

979
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 1: And first of all, he's tall, he's so gorgeous, handsome, debonair,

980
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 1: he's completely like his vibe is so he's just sort

981
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 1: of like understated, like he's not he's just so cool

982
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 1: and so almost reserved, and usually that's compelling, Like you're

983
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:45,880
Speaker 1: just always compelled by him because he's such a presence.

984
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:48,840
Speaker 2: You know, there's this scene when Gonja first shows up

985
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 2: at his home and they've only spoken on the phone.

986
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:53,759
Speaker 2: So she shows up, but she's very bossy and like,

987
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:55,359
Speaker 2: you know, I know what I want, I know who

988
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 2: I am out of my way, And she says to

989
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:02,399
Speaker 2: him because he's just it out looking cool, and she says,

990
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 2: you can tell your boss I'm here, and he just

991
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 2: lets her go for a minute and turns around. He's like,

992
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:09,840
Speaker 2: I am doctor Green. Like it's just the coolest and

993
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:15,840
Speaker 2: smoothest motherfucker. Oh my god, he's so so cool and

994
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 2: so handsome and just like just like very chiseled, but

995
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:22,880
Speaker 2: also that chiseled but lean, you know, like just very

996
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:26,239
Speaker 2: like I'm I'm very surprised because I think that his

997
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 2: physicality lends itself to a kind of acting that I

998
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:31,319
Speaker 2: would have thought would have opened him up to a

999
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:35,160
Speaker 2: world of roles like why wasn't Dwayne Jones in Star

1000
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:39,439
Speaker 2: Wars or why wasn't he in I mean, we know why,

1001
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 2: but I like, why wasn't.

1002
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:47,480
Speaker 3: He Listen, I would watch Star Wars if Dwayne Jones

1003
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 3: was in it. I'm just saying thank you.

1004
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 1: But that scene of the church was seriously just gives

1005
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 1: me goosebumps, Like just the whole the singing and all

1006
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:02,160
Speaker 1: all that obviously gospel. Saying it to me is very emotional,

1007
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 1: and I am very I feel emotional every time I

1008
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 1: hear it. But the scene went on for a very

1009
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 1: long time before Dwayne Jones even shows up in it.

1010
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:14,160
Speaker 1: And when he shows it that kind of the way

1011
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:16,280
Speaker 1: that Bill Gunn shoots it is like kind of from

1012
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 1: the side almost, so it's almost like he just kind

1013
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 1: of walked in the room and maybe nobody knew that

1014
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:27,040
Speaker 1: he was coming in. It feels like it's a documentary

1015
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:29,600
Speaker 1: or something. It doesn't feel like a narrative film.

1016
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:30,719
Speaker 3: And that moment, and.

1017
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 2: It is truly something to see a filmmaker make those

1018
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:40,400
Speaker 2: decisions that instantly affect how you're seeing the film, let

1019
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 2: alone how you're viewing the film, Like that change in

1020
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 2: perspective is something that is so gentle but so powerful,

1021
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:50,840
Speaker 2: and it takes a true, I think, a real brave

1022
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:55,840
Speaker 2: and thoughtful and analytical and pretty much genius mind to

1023
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:58,279
Speaker 2: kind of make those shifts, and not to do it

1024
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:01,200
Speaker 2: in a way that's like I'm intent gonna blow people away,

1025
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 2: but just to kind of think, this is how I

1026
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:07,440
Speaker 2: can translate within my head out into this medium. This

1027
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:09,919
Speaker 2: is again like it's it's a compliment, but it's also

1028
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:13,319
Speaker 2: just like something that really I still think about and

1029
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 2: I think about every time I see this film. The

1030
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:19,880
Speaker 2: way that he films sex scenes to seem sexy without

1031
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:25,320
Speaker 2: appearing overtly pornographic, even though he's showing like entire bodies,

1032
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 2: and to not be from the perspective of the male

1033
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:32,160
Speaker 2: gaze is unbelievable to me.

1034
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:37,439
Speaker 1: You're so right when you saw Ganja's nakedness, it did

1035
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:41,280
Speaker 1: not seem like it was coming from the male gaze.

1036
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:47,520
Speaker 1: It was seriously like incredible how there was equity between

1037
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:51,920
Speaker 1: the naked female bodies and the male naked bodies. And

1038
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:56,840
Speaker 1: I mean especially in horror and especially in vampire movies,

1039
00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:00,360
Speaker 1: like that's not usually the case, Like there's all always

1040
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:04,640
Speaker 1: sexy lesbian vampires like make it out in every vampire movie.

1041
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:06,160
Speaker 3: No, I'm kidding, but you know what I mean.

1042
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 1: I'm not kidding, but I'm kidding because I think it

1043
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:11,440
Speaker 1: does come back to what you said about he was

1044
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:15,040
Speaker 1: a bohemian living in a very bohemian time and a

1045
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 1: very bohemian lifestyle and ran in those sort of artist circles.

1046
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:23,880
Speaker 1: He made this it's just almost like an experimental art film.

1047
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:28,000
Speaker 1: It's completely psychedelic. Yeah, but it's also just sort of

1048
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 1: like thoughtful and thoughtfully made. It's not too weird in

1049
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:34,200
Speaker 1: that way where it's just it doesn't seem random. It

1050
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:36,399
Speaker 1: seems very like intentional.

1051
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:39,360
Speaker 2: It doesn't hold anyone at arm's length either, Like, you know,

1052
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:41,839
Speaker 2: this is the kind of movie where like some cool

1053
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:45,040
Speaker 2: bartender might play it behind like on the screen on

1054
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:48,359
Speaker 2: silent while you're drinking in the nineties or something. But

1055
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 2: this is so much more than that. Like, it's just

1056
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 2: the fact that it has a narrative is important because

1057
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:58,120
Speaker 2: it didn't have to. He could have just been all visual,

1058
00:55:58,200 --> 00:55:59,560
Speaker 2: or it could have been just you know, all one

1059
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:03,280
Speaker 2: way the other. But it has a narrative that is fascinating.

1060
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:07,200
Speaker 2: But again, I really feel like to have a movie

1061
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 2: that shows sex in that way that is not through

1062
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:14,440
Speaker 2: the mail gaze or the white gaze. It's revolutionary. And

1063
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:16,040
Speaker 2: I'm going to talk about that a little bit more

1064
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:18,560
Speaker 2: by reading part of a letter to the editor that

1065
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:21,440
Speaker 2: Bill Gunn wrote to the New York Times. So this

1066
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:25,400
Speaker 2: is after the release of Ganja and Hess. He wrote

1067
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 2: a letter to the editor called to Be a Black Artist.

1068
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:30,359
Speaker 2: It was published in the New York Times on May

1069
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:32,520
Speaker 2: thirteenth of nineteen seventy three.

1070
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:35,879
Speaker 1: And this was because correct me if I'm wrong. The

1071
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:38,839
Speaker 1: movie reviewer of the Times panned it.

1072
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:40,800
Speaker 2: He panned it, but he'd only been there, like he

1073
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:43,840
Speaker 2: didn't even see the whole film. Wow, yeah essentially, so

1074
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:47,360
Speaker 2: that's yeah. So he panned it, and this was the response.

1075
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:49,280
Speaker 2: So this is part of the response. But I encourage

1076
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 2: you to read the entire thing. He starts out by saying,

1077
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:57,839
Speaker 2: there are times when the white critic must sit down

1078
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 2: and listen. If he cannot listen and learn, then he

1079
00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:05,520
Speaker 2: must not concern himself with black creativity. So right out

1080
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:08,400
Speaker 2: the gate, he's just like, here's what's up. If you

1081
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:11,719
Speaker 2: don't have the wherewithal to withstand this, then don't come

1082
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 2: at me like, I don't need to see you reviewing

1083
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:16,840
Speaker 2: my shit in your paper if you don't have the

1084
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:21,440
Speaker 2: patience or the desire or the curiosity to meet me

1085
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:24,640
Speaker 2: at my level. Right off the bat, and here's that

1086
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 2: part that Milly was talking about earlier, where he says,

1087
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:31,680
Speaker 2: if I were white, I would probably be called fresh

1088
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:35,400
Speaker 2: and different. If I were European, Ganja and Hess might

1089
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 2: be quote that little film you must see unquote because

1090
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:41,960
Speaker 2: I am black. I do not even deserve the pride

1091
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:45,640
Speaker 2: that one American feels for another when he discovers that

1092
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:49,360
Speaker 2: a fellow countryman's film has been selected as the only

1093
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 2: American film to be shown during critics Week at the

1094
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:57,720
Speaker 2: con Film Festival in May of nineteen seventy three. Not

1095
00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:00,440
Speaker 2: one white critic from any of the major news papers

1096
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 2: even mentioned it. Again, huge huge. You name a single

1097
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:13,360
Speaker 2: person who's shown it Cohn now in the last five years,

1098
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:17,040
Speaker 2: ten years, who isn't currently directing blockbuster films or isn't

1099
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:22,400
Speaker 2: currently making huge budget, high level art movies. It's a

1100
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:26,360
Speaker 2: big deal. So he's noticing this disconnect for his own

1101
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:29,600
Speaker 2: work and standing up for himself in that way. This

1102
00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:33,080
Speaker 2: is the part that really got me, though. Your newspapers

1103
00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:37,480
Speaker 2: and critics must realize that they are controlling black theater

1104
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:42,320
Speaker 2: and film creativity with white criticism. Maybe if the black

1105
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:45,480
Speaker 2: film craze continues, the white press might even find it

1106
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:49,920
Speaker 2: necessary to employ black criticism. But if you can stop

1107
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:54,040
Speaker 2: the craze in its tracks, maybe that won't be necessary.

1108
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:54,840
Speaker 3: Wow.

1109
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:57,400
Speaker 2: Man, So that's why we don't hear a lot about

1110
00:58:57,440 --> 00:59:00,360
Speaker 2: Bill Gunn. And he saw it coming, and he hauled

1111
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:03,320
Speaker 2: it out and he named it, and no one did

1112
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:04,640
Speaker 2: a goddamn thing about it.

1113
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 1: Somebody in nineteen seventy three, nineteen seventy four, you said

1114
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 1: that was rit in ninety seventy three.

1115
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:11,800
Speaker 2: That was nineteen seventy three.

1116
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:15,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, was saying that. I mean, we can say

1117
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 1: that right now. You can say the same thing right now.

1118
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:18,720
Speaker 1: It's crazy to.

1119
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:19,920
Speaker 2: Me, true visionary.

1120
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:20,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1121
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:24,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I gotta tell you, I'm so so glad

1122
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:29,360
Speaker 1: that you pick this movie. I think it's so fascinating,

1123
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 1: it's so awesome. I think that the best thing that

1124
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:36,000
Speaker 1: could have happened is that they put together the film

1125
00:59:36,040 --> 00:59:39,600
Speaker 1: that he made, saved it from the hack job, you know,

1126
00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:44,400
Speaker 1: the blood Couple hack job, and it's out there.

1127
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:47,120
Speaker 2: Completely and to create in a way that again shows

1128
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:52,520
Speaker 2: that I for queerness, the eye for blackness, and to

1129
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:56,959
Speaker 2: do it in a way that is just so evocative

1130
00:59:57,520 --> 01:00:00,040
Speaker 2: and transcendent ahead of its time. I hope he he

1131
01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:03,920
Speaker 2: felt a little bit of that at least in his life.

1132
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:11,240
Speaker 1: My film for this episode, the episode in which we're

1133
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:16,720
Speaker 1: celebrating the actor, director playwright Bill Gunn, is a movie

1134
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:21,000
Speaker 1: from nineteen eighty two. It's called Losing Ground and it

1135
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:23,320
Speaker 1: was directed by Kathleen Collins.

1136
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:25,680
Speaker 2: He used to be an aspect painter.

1137
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:31,880
Speaker 1: Now he only wanted to paint the people. I was genuin.

1138
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:37,600
Speaker 4: Genuis fuck success.

1139
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:44,200
Speaker 1: Losing Ground is considered the first feature length dramatic film

1140
01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:47,680
Speaker 1: that was directed by a black woman, really, despite the

1141
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:54,320
Speaker 1: fact that it actually did not receive a general theatrical release.

1142
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 1: It was never released in theaters, okay, which is also

1143
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:03,360
Speaker 1: why Daughters of the Dust by Julie Dash has always

1144
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:05,200
Speaker 1: kind of thrown in the mix as one of these

1145
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:08,880
Speaker 1: like landmark films that were made by black women, because

1146
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:13,760
Speaker 1: she actually did receive a theatrical release. So Losing Ground

1147
01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:17,920
Speaker 1: was Kathleen Collins's second film. Her first was this movie

1148
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:21,240
Speaker 1: called The Cruz Brothers and Missus molloy. I think it's

1149
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:25,600
Speaker 1: on Criterion Channel, as is Losing Ground. But it's about

1150
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:29,479
Speaker 1: forty forty something the minutes long, roughly under an hour.

1151
01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:37,320
Speaker 1: So Kathleen Collins was essentially working in academia. She was

1152
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:41,320
Speaker 1: working on her doctorate and teaching, and that's when she

1153
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:45,000
Speaker 1: started learning how to edit movies, and then she eventually

1154
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:48,520
Speaker 1: started making movies as a way to sort of give

1155
01:01:48,600 --> 01:01:52,479
Speaker 1: life to these short stories that she was writing while

1156
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:54,880
Speaker 1: she was working at the City University of New York

1157
01:01:55,640 --> 01:02:01,440
Speaker 1: and exactly like everyone we've just been discussing, Melvin Van Peebles,

1158
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:04,080
Speaker 1: Bill Gunn, who she was friends with, which is why

1159
01:02:04,120 --> 01:02:07,720
Speaker 1: Bill Gunn is even in this movie. She was an artist.

1160
01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:11,840
Speaker 1: She was doing it all. She was in the university environment.

1161
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:16,880
Speaker 1: She was writing plays, short stories, making films, teaching, she

1162
01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:21,000
Speaker 1: was an activist during the Civil rights movement. She's editing, creating,

1163
01:02:21,360 --> 01:02:23,880
Speaker 1: and she herself was also a bit of a bohemian

1164
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:29,080
Speaker 1: like she kind of lived this very artistic bohemian lifestyle.

1165
01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:33,200
Speaker 1: There's actually like this amazing piece that was written by

1166
01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:35,680
Speaker 1: her daughter that I think was in Vogue magazine and

1167
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:39,440
Speaker 1: she was basically kind of talking about her mother and

1168
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:41,680
Speaker 1: having growing up with her and just kind of the

1169
01:02:41,720 --> 01:02:44,040
Speaker 1: way her mother was that she was, you know, she

1170
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:48,200
Speaker 1: believed in astrology, as apparently Bill Gunn did too, and

1171
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:52,160
Speaker 1: they were very much like hippies, you know, which I love.

1172
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:56,720
Speaker 1: Losing Ground was apparently semi autobiographical, which I also think

1173
01:02:56,800 --> 01:02:57,720
Speaker 1: is really interesting.

1174
01:02:57,840 --> 01:02:59,520
Speaker 2: So oh, and you could tell from some of those

1175
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:03,880
Speaker 2: academic scenes. I was like, tell me that is what

1176
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:05,760
Speaker 2: it is, like I know.

1177
01:03:06,040 --> 01:03:08,800
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm triggered right now. All this grad

1178
01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:13,360
Speaker 1: school convo. I'm like, I can't take it. It's bringing

1179
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:16,120
Speaker 1: me back to that place that I dropped out of.

1180
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:20,600
Speaker 3: Sadly, but I know so.

1181
01:03:20,840 --> 01:03:23,880
Speaker 1: Just as in terms of a synopsis, the movie is

1182
01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:28,400
Speaker 1: about this very beautiful and bright woman named Sarah who

1183
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:33,600
Speaker 1: is played by Sarette Scott, and she's a philosophy professor

1184
01:03:33,840 --> 01:03:37,959
Speaker 1: living in New York City with her husband Victor, who

1185
01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:41,680
Speaker 1: was played by Bill Gunn. And he is a successful artist.

1186
01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:45,440
Speaker 1: He's a painter, Okay. After Victor sells one of his

1187
01:03:45,640 --> 01:03:48,560
Speaker 1: paintings to a big museum, he decides that he wants

1188
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:51,880
Speaker 1: to go rent a summerhouse in upstate New York.

1189
01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:53,480
Speaker 2: You might know where it is.

1190
01:03:53,560 --> 01:03:56,680
Speaker 1: It feels like it's on the border of Canada.

1191
01:03:57,120 --> 01:03:58,440
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1192
01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:01,560
Speaker 2: It looks like Wickipsie. It's like an hour away. I'm sure.

1193
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:04,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know.

1194
01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:07,280
Speaker 1: We've talked about like the difference between what's upstate New

1195
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:09,720
Speaker 1: York and with this episodes like don't get on my

1196
01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 1: case people, Okay.

1197
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:13,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, for the purposes of this podcast, anything that's not

1198
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:16,040
Speaker 2: in New York City is upstate and it's fine.

1199
01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:18,919
Speaker 3: All I know is that it looks lovely and I'd

1200
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:19,640
Speaker 3: love to go there.

1201
01:04:20,800 --> 01:04:23,400
Speaker 1: So basically he wants to wunt this summer house upstate

1202
01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:25,800
Speaker 1: where he can work on his art and be creative.

1203
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:30,640
Speaker 1: And Sarah is basically against this idea because she needs

1204
01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:34,000
Speaker 1: access to the city because she's a professor and she's

1205
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:37,120
Speaker 1: doing research for this important paper that she's writing, which

1206
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:40,640
Speaker 1: is about ecstasy, which I think is you know, it's

1207
01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:41,200
Speaker 1: very clever.

1208
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:44,800
Speaker 2: Not the drug, not the drug, not the drug.

1209
01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:49,080
Speaker 1: But the concept of ecstasy and how people experience ecstasy.

1210
01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:51,760
Speaker 1: You know, it's like, this is a very smart movie.

1211
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:52,960
Speaker 1: I'll talk more about.

1212
01:04:52,760 --> 01:04:56,040
Speaker 3: That later, but here's the thing. So she doesn't want

1213
01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:56,400
Speaker 3: to go.

1214
01:04:57,280 --> 01:04:59,240
Speaker 1: But Victor is sort of guilt tripping her into this

1215
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:02,520
Speaker 1: idea because you know, he's an artist and going there

1216
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:05,480
Speaker 1: would be so inspiring and would help us painting. And

1217
01:05:05,520 --> 01:05:10,200
Speaker 1: he keeps talking about Puerto Rican women living in Victorian houses,

1218
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:13,760
Speaker 1: which I was like, huh.

1219
01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:15,120
Speaker 2: It's such a specific reference that you've got to be

1220
01:05:15,160 --> 01:05:16,200
Speaker 2: instantly suspicious.

1221
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:18,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was like, huh, put a pin in that.

1222
01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:21,240
Speaker 2: Maybe that maybe we'll.

1223
01:05:21,080 --> 01:05:23,760
Speaker 1: Put that plays into this story at some point, but

1224
01:05:24,120 --> 01:05:28,160
Speaker 1: I just think that's so strange. And also I don't

1225
01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:29,560
Speaker 1: know if that's that is that a is there a

1226
01:05:29,560 --> 01:05:32,280
Speaker 1: place in upstate New York that's only Puerto Rican women

1227
01:05:32,320 --> 01:05:34,120
Speaker 1: living in Victorian houses.

1228
01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:35,360
Speaker 2: Not currently, Okay.

1229
01:05:35,440 --> 01:05:38,520
Speaker 1: I was sure this was something that I missed out on,

1230
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:41,840
Speaker 1: Like there's some kind of ethnic enclave of like in

1231
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:42,760
Speaker 1: upstate New York.

1232
01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:45,479
Speaker 2: I don't know. I couldn't maybe in nineteen eighty two,

1233
01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:50,480
Speaker 2: but who knows. And there definitely was like I know

1234
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:53,320
Speaker 2: that there. My aunt Evlyn is Puerto Rican and it

1235
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:56,760
Speaker 2: is like black aunt. We're not related by family, she's

1236
01:05:56,840 --> 01:05:58,040
Speaker 2: just like I grew up with her.

1237
01:05:58,240 --> 01:06:00,000
Speaker 3: Yes, I have many of those.

1238
01:06:00,480 --> 01:06:04,160
Speaker 2: And she used to tell me stories about growing up

1239
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:06,080
Speaker 2: in New York and how like there's of course, like

1240
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:08,040
Speaker 2: certain parts of the Bronx, certain parts of the city

1241
01:06:08,080 --> 01:06:11,640
Speaker 2: were very heavily Puerto Rican. But I think that what

1242
01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:14,640
Speaker 2: they might be referring to here, and do not quote

1243
01:06:14,680 --> 01:06:17,080
Speaker 2: me on this, it seems to be the time of

1244
01:06:17,120 --> 01:06:19,840
Speaker 2: life when there were a lot of people who had

1245
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:23,560
Speaker 2: like nannies and home healthcare and you know, all that

1246
01:06:23,640 --> 01:06:25,640
Speaker 2: kind of shit. So this could have been like, you know,

1247
01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:27,480
Speaker 2: this is a part of town where all these women

1248
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:30,240
Speaker 2: live in order to take care of these rich families

1249
01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:31,600
Speaker 2: and like the palisades or whatever.

1250
01:06:31,680 --> 01:06:36,280
Speaker 1: Oh gotcha gotcha makes sense? Okay, Well, Victor is about it.

1251
01:06:36,400 --> 01:06:41,720
Speaker 1: Let's just say that he's inspired by it, and you know,

1252
01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:43,000
Speaker 1: he's basically.

1253
01:06:42,560 --> 01:06:44,880
Speaker 3: Like, I gotta go. It's gonna help my art.

1254
01:06:44,920 --> 01:06:46,440
Speaker 1: And you know what, if you want, you can just

1255
01:06:46,480 --> 01:06:48,160
Speaker 1: drive back to New York a couple times a week

1256
01:06:48,200 --> 01:06:50,760
Speaker 1: if you need to to do research. And it's just

1257
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:53,840
Speaker 1: the thing where you can sense as a viewer, you

1258
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:56,840
Speaker 1: can sense that there's already some kind of feeling that's present,

1259
01:06:57,640 --> 01:07:01,040
Speaker 1: and that feeling is Victor is like the star of

1260
01:07:01,080 --> 01:07:04,080
Speaker 1: this relationship, like he's an artist and he needs to

1261
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:08,880
Speaker 1: be free and creative at all times, and that Sarah

1262
01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:13,400
Speaker 1: is basically like his rock, right, Like she's the steady,

1263
01:07:13,680 --> 01:07:18,080
Speaker 1: boring one. She's a professor, she talks about like philosophy,

1264
01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:21,840
Speaker 1: like she's she's the one that is gonna be with

1265
01:07:21,960 --> 01:07:23,640
Speaker 1: him through all of his whims.

1266
01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:25,720
Speaker 2: Right. But the thing.

1267
01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:30,600
Speaker 1: About it is that it's obvious that Sarah's inner turmoil

1268
01:07:31,560 --> 01:07:34,919
Speaker 1: is that idea that she is too boring and two

1269
01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:38,120
Speaker 1: in her own head, and how the stuff that she

1270
01:07:38,360 --> 01:07:43,640
Speaker 1: does and thinks about and studies aka academia is kind

1271
01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:49,680
Speaker 1: of this stuffy white pursuit, unlike art, which is more

1272
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:53,080
Speaker 1: instinctual and sensual and it's a little bit you know,

1273
01:07:54,080 --> 01:07:59,520
Speaker 1: less fruit through, right. But of course she ultimately agrees

1274
01:07:59,560 --> 01:08:02,640
Speaker 1: to go him because of course she does, because she's

1275
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:05,680
Speaker 1: the woman, right, and this is what women have done

1276
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:13,280
Speaker 1: for many, many centuries. Molnia, Yeah, Millennia perhaps, even though

1277
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:15,000
Speaker 1: I have to say the house that they go to

1278
01:08:15,240 --> 01:08:17,679
Speaker 1: is awesome and it looks.

1279
01:08:17,479 --> 01:08:19,840
Speaker 2: Incredible, right, like she didn't lose out with the house

1280
01:08:19,880 --> 01:08:20,240
Speaker 2: at all.

1281
01:08:20,320 --> 01:08:20,720
Speaker 3: She did not.

1282
01:08:21,240 --> 01:08:24,320
Speaker 1: So Victor is walking around town sketching all of the

1283
01:08:24,360 --> 01:08:27,160
Speaker 1: Puerto Rican women who are living in this town, and

1284
01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:30,160
Speaker 1: I just have to say, Bill Gunn is clearly being

1285
01:08:30,240 --> 01:08:34,240
Speaker 1: a shit, but also just like so cute, I mean

1286
01:08:34,800 --> 01:08:35,519
Speaker 1: so cute.

1287
01:08:35,880 --> 01:08:37,320
Speaker 3: He's carrying around.

1288
01:08:36,960 --> 01:08:41,160
Speaker 1: His little his little Jan sport backpack and he's got

1289
01:08:41,160 --> 01:08:43,880
Speaker 1: his giant sketch pad with his shirt it's like three

1290
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:47,880
Speaker 1: buttons down unbuttoned, and he's flirting with everybody, and he's

1291
01:08:47,920 --> 01:08:51,559
Speaker 1: just smiley and charismatic, like I want to slap him

1292
01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:54,639
Speaker 1: in his artist ass face, but honestly, like.

1293
01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:56,479
Speaker 2: What a charmer. I just have to see exactly.

1294
01:08:56,760 --> 01:09:01,679
Speaker 1: Eventually he becomes fast aid with this woman named Celia.

1295
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:04,519
Speaker 1: She's like one of the young Puerto Rican women that

1296
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:08,200
Speaker 1: he meets, and he's calling to her from the street.

1297
01:09:08,280 --> 01:09:11,400
Speaker 1: He wants to sketch her, he wants to dance with her.

1298
01:09:11,680 --> 01:09:15,280
Speaker 1: You know, he's just fascinated by her, right, And Sarah

1299
01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:18,640
Speaker 1: is like figuring it out that he is spending a

1300
01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:22,120
Speaker 1: lot of time with her and perhaps this has happened before,

1301
01:09:22,800 --> 01:09:26,880
Speaker 1: and you can tell she's slowly becoming enraged by this. Right,

1302
01:09:27,400 --> 01:09:29,400
Speaker 1: So she goes back to New York kind of in

1303
01:09:29,439 --> 01:09:32,120
Speaker 1: a huff, and then she agrees to star in this

1304
01:09:32,400 --> 01:09:35,559
Speaker 1: movie that's being made by one of her students. And

1305
01:09:36,280 --> 01:09:40,120
Speaker 1: while she's filming this movie, she meets her co star, Duke,

1306
01:09:40,320 --> 01:09:45,360
Speaker 1: who is played by Dwayne Jones from Ganja and Hes

1307
01:09:45,479 --> 01:09:47,920
Speaker 1: and not in the Living Dead, so it's like hello,

1308
01:09:48,280 --> 01:09:52,400
Speaker 1: same people in both movies, which is great. And again

1309
01:09:52,520 --> 01:09:55,639
Speaker 1: Dwayne Jones is hot as shit and is.

1310
01:09:55,760 --> 01:09:57,280
Speaker 2: Even in a cape.

1311
01:09:57,479 --> 01:09:59,280
Speaker 1: He shows up at a cape, which I was like, Ah,

1312
01:09:59,320 --> 01:10:03,880
Speaker 1: that's funny, and you know, he's suave and he's he's

1313
01:10:04,240 --> 01:10:04,559
Speaker 1: like her.

1314
01:10:04,600 --> 01:10:07,400
Speaker 3: He sits down and he's rattling off like all.

1315
01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:11,559
Speaker 1: Of the religion, all of the philosophy that she's been

1316
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:14,439
Speaker 1: talking about and thinking about, and you know, she's like

1317
01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:18,400
Speaker 1: a ruga who is this guy who's talking my language?

1318
01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:22,320
Speaker 2: He makes her laugh, which is incredibly important, and it's

1319
01:10:22,400 --> 01:10:24,040
Speaker 2: like the first time you really see her give a

1320
01:10:24,040 --> 01:10:26,960
Speaker 2: full belly laugh, which is great. And let's also note

1321
01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:31,040
Speaker 2: that it's not like as this character has not been

1322
01:10:31,240 --> 01:10:35,160
Speaker 2: suffering from a lack of offers herself, like her students

1323
01:10:35,200 --> 01:10:38,640
Speaker 2: are enamored of her, men flock to her, like she

1324
01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:41,479
Speaker 2: is definitely had chances.

1325
01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:44,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's the thing too, right, is that you

1326
01:10:44,200 --> 01:10:47,240
Speaker 1: can tell that she's kind of processing that throughout the movie.

1327
01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:48,960
Speaker 1: So she's basically like, why am I with this guy

1328
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:51,719
Speaker 1: who doesn't respect me, who thinks I'm just this drag,

1329
01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:54,960
Speaker 1: you know? And yet I have all these other people

1330
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:56,759
Speaker 1: who are interested in what I have to offer.

1331
01:10:57,200 --> 01:11:00,360
Speaker 3: I mean, taalo's all this time. Let's get serious, right.

1332
01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:03,080
Speaker 1: So the funny thing about this movie that it's so

1333
01:11:03,120 --> 01:11:05,200
Speaker 1: funny because I told you this movie is very smart.

1334
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:08,920
Speaker 1: There's a movie that's being filmed in the movie, and

1335
01:11:09,080 --> 01:11:13,720
Speaker 1: essentially the movie that Sarah and Duke are in is

1336
01:11:14,360 --> 01:11:17,040
Speaker 1: I mean, this is some some weird fucking student film.

1337
01:11:17,240 --> 01:11:19,639
Speaker 1: It has something to do with like prohibition, but it's

1338
01:11:19,680 --> 01:11:24,120
Speaker 1: also apparently like it kind of talks about the old

1339
01:11:24,240 --> 01:11:27,320
Speaker 1: murder ballad, the Frankie and Johnny Murder Ballad, which is

1340
01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:30,240
Speaker 1: essentially an old murder ballad about.

1341
01:11:30,280 --> 01:11:33,200
Speaker 3: A woman who catches her man cheating on her and

1342
01:11:33,400 --> 01:11:34,160
Speaker 3: kills him.

1343
01:11:34,680 --> 01:11:37,840
Speaker 1: Right, So you're like, huh, isn't that funny that she's

1344
01:11:37,880 --> 01:11:40,519
Speaker 1: in this movie and she's also in a situation very

1345
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:44,400
Speaker 1: much like this. Kathleen Collins was no dummy, I'll tell you.

1346
01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:46,519
Speaker 2: And that's what like this movie does, is it really

1347
01:11:46,560 --> 01:11:51,120
Speaker 2: balances the artistic and the analytical, both in the characters

1348
01:11:51,200 --> 01:11:54,599
Speaker 2: and in the subject matter, which is just choice totally.

1349
01:11:54,880 --> 01:11:59,200
Speaker 1: So as you can imagine, after they meet, Sarah brings

1350
01:11:59,280 --> 01:12:01,960
Speaker 1: Duke to the side, and then this whole kind of

1351
01:12:01,960 --> 01:12:02,960
Speaker 1: situation plays out.

1352
01:12:02,960 --> 01:12:06,160
Speaker 3: It's very Anniversary Party from.

1353
01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:10,080
Speaker 1: Two thousand and one, that movie with Alan Cumming, where

1354
01:12:10,160 --> 01:12:16,000
Speaker 1: basically like Victor's Celia is there, Sarah's Duke is there,

1355
01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:19,920
Speaker 1: and it's just this very uncomfortable scene where Victor is

1356
01:12:19,960 --> 01:12:23,080
Speaker 1: acting the fuck out and he's trying to turn on

1357
01:12:23,120 --> 01:12:26,519
Speaker 1: the heat with Celia and it's just very uncomfortable, and

1358
01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:30,519
Speaker 1: Sarah's processing this whole thing and basically she freaks out,

1359
01:12:30,640 --> 01:12:32,400
Speaker 1: is like fuck this, I'm not gonna sit here and

1360
01:12:32,439 --> 01:12:34,760
Speaker 1: watch you flirt with another woman, and you know, she

1361
01:12:34,920 --> 01:12:37,959
Speaker 1: leaves to go back to the city and then finishes

1362
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:40,280
Speaker 1: the movie. And the end of the movie is this

1363
01:12:40,479 --> 01:12:42,519
Speaker 1: very much like like I said, it's based on the

1364
01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:45,400
Speaker 1: Murder Ballad where the wife kills the husband who's been

1365
01:12:45,439 --> 01:12:47,559
Speaker 1: cheating on her. So in the movie that she's in,

1366
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:51,479
Speaker 1: she does that and somehow Victor just rolls up as

1367
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:53,360
Speaker 1: this is happening, and it's this kind of moment where

1368
01:12:53,360 --> 01:12:55,840
Speaker 1: you're like, huh, like.

1369
01:12:56,400 --> 01:12:57,200
Speaker 2: What's gonna happen?

1370
01:12:57,280 --> 01:12:58,800
Speaker 3: What's gonna happen to these two?

1371
01:13:00,200 --> 01:13:03,280
Speaker 2: And does he realize what might be about to have? Wait?

1372
01:13:03,360 --> 01:13:06,280
Speaker 1: Like and I think he finally figures out Oh fuck right.

1373
01:13:06,439 --> 01:13:08,000
Speaker 1: So that's the synopsis in the film.

1374
01:13:08,040 --> 01:13:08,240
Speaker 2: Now.

1375
01:13:08,479 --> 01:13:11,599
Speaker 1: Needless to say, this movie knocked me on my ass

1376
01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:14,280
Speaker 1: when I first saw it. And it's not honestly just

1377
01:13:14,320 --> 01:13:17,360
Speaker 1: because Sarah is just like a relatable character. I mean,

1378
01:13:17,520 --> 01:13:21,240
Speaker 1: who hasn't given up their dreams for a partner exactly?

1379
01:13:21,720 --> 01:13:24,320
Speaker 2: Oh God is life? We're like, come on, who hasn't

1380
01:13:24,360 --> 01:13:27,360
Speaker 2: watched like, please explain to me again why we are

1381
01:13:27,400 --> 01:13:32,280
Speaker 2: still horning four men? Like what it's going on? True?

1382
01:13:32,320 --> 01:13:34,439
Speaker 3: Words have not been spoken ever.

1383
01:13:34,320 --> 01:13:38,080
Speaker 2: Do we know? Like how it was. So this wasn't

1384
01:13:38,120 --> 01:13:40,080
Speaker 2: released but it did come back out.

1385
01:13:40,400 --> 01:13:43,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I was gonna say, well, first of all,

1386
01:13:43,400 --> 01:13:44,080
Speaker 1: I'll say this.

1387
01:13:45,200 --> 01:13:46,519
Speaker 2: The reason why.

1388
01:13:46,320 --> 01:13:49,240
Speaker 1: I really really love this movie though, is that it

1389
01:13:49,360 --> 01:13:54,040
Speaker 1: falls into this category of movie that I am absolutely

1390
01:13:54,120 --> 01:13:58,920
Speaker 1: obsessed with, which is intellectual people going on vacation to

1391
01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:04,880
Speaker 1: small towns and having relationship issues. Okay, Ah, This French

1392
01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:06,080
Speaker 1: director named Eric Romer.

1393
01:14:06,960 --> 01:14:10,120
Speaker 3: He was more or less known for making movies like this. Okay.

1394
01:14:10,520 --> 01:14:13,479
Speaker 1: For example, when that movie Called Me by Your Name

1395
01:14:13,600 --> 01:14:15,799
Speaker 1: came out a few years ago, a lot of people

1396
01:14:15,920 --> 01:14:19,479
Speaker 1: referenced Eric Romer because that movie was basically made in

1397
01:14:19,800 --> 01:14:24,759
Speaker 1: this style, which is smart, attractive people in eighties clothes,

1398
01:14:25,520 --> 01:14:30,000
Speaker 1: contemplating life and love in some like amazing summer rental

1399
01:14:30,880 --> 01:14:35,479
Speaker 1: in Italy, and maybe somebody has an affair or like

1400
01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:38,439
Speaker 1: a flirtation, but it's mostly just people who are like

1401
01:14:39,120 --> 01:14:42,479
Speaker 1: reading books by the pool and talking about the nature

1402
01:14:42,560 --> 01:14:44,280
Speaker 1: of desire or whatever.

1403
01:14:44,360 --> 01:14:44,719
Speaker 3: Okay.

1404
01:14:44,960 --> 01:14:49,879
Speaker 1: So, but the reason why we say that Eric Romer

1405
01:14:49,960 --> 01:14:51,920
Speaker 1: is the guy that made these types of films is

1406
01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:56,439
Speaker 1: because he had the resources and received the distribution that

1407
01:14:56,560 --> 01:15:01,519
Speaker 1: sadly Kathleen Collins did not have, including this movie that

1408
01:15:01,640 --> 01:15:07,400
Speaker 1: is basically like I love to imagine this world where

1409
01:15:07,560 --> 01:15:11,120
Speaker 1: Kathleen Collins got to make like twenty movies, okay, and

1410
01:15:11,200 --> 01:15:13,439
Speaker 1: she got to be the true auteur that she could

1411
01:15:13,439 --> 01:15:16,280
Speaker 1: have been, and people on Twitter would be posting movie

1412
01:15:16,400 --> 01:15:19,960
Speaker 1: stills from her movies and saying like lifestyle goals in

1413
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:22,920
Speaker 1: all capital letters, like she would have had the Eric

1414
01:15:23,040 --> 01:15:23,799
Speaker 1: Romer career.

1415
01:15:24,000 --> 01:15:30,520
Speaker 2: Yes, and a movie that values intellectualism in en blackness

1416
01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:34,160
Speaker 2: and just again in this way that is very common

1417
01:15:34,720 --> 01:15:38,560
Speaker 2: if you are a privy to this stuff, but revolutionary

1418
01:15:38,640 --> 01:15:40,880
Speaker 2: to see and how many more films could we have

1419
01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:45,880
Speaker 2: had that valorized things that were important to a wider

1420
01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:46,799
Speaker 2: spectrum of people.

1421
01:15:46,960 --> 01:15:50,400
Speaker 1: You're absolutely right, And if anything, I feel like this

1422
01:15:50,439 --> 01:15:54,760
Speaker 1: movie sets the stage for like American independent filmmaking, which

1423
01:15:54,800 --> 01:15:58,280
Speaker 1: comes a few years later of and it's this movie smaller,

1424
01:15:58,520 --> 01:16:03,559
Speaker 1: character driven stories, deeply personal. And that's why it's like

1425
01:16:03,640 --> 01:16:07,799
Speaker 1: so fucking puzzling to me. You know that with Melvin

1426
01:16:07,880 --> 01:16:10,640
Speaker 1: Van Peebles's Bill Gunn, Kathleen Conns, these are people that

1427
01:16:10,680 --> 01:16:14,719
Speaker 1: are making movies that are literally in line with any

1428
01:16:14,760 --> 01:16:17,440
Speaker 1: of the movies that we know and love from these eras.

1429
01:16:17,680 --> 01:16:20,879
Speaker 1: Because here's the thing, like I never knew Kathleen Collins

1430
01:16:20,880 --> 01:16:22,240
Speaker 1: the entire time I was in film.

1431
01:16:22,000 --> 01:16:23,439
Speaker 3: School, Like, she never came up.

1432
01:16:23,560 --> 01:16:25,080
Speaker 2: But I bet you heard about Wit Stillman.

1433
01:16:25,280 --> 01:16:28,800
Speaker 1: Absolutely one hundred percent. It's almost like black people and

1434
01:16:28,880 --> 01:16:31,880
Speaker 1: women were shut out of something.

1435
01:16:31,880 --> 01:16:35,160
Speaker 2: Almost intentionally, but it is. It's true. And this is

1436
01:16:35,680 --> 01:16:38,320
Speaker 2: why I think it's important to revisit these films and

1437
01:16:38,400 --> 01:16:42,880
Speaker 2: to revisit these creators, is that it's unfortunate you don't

1438
01:16:42,920 --> 01:16:45,719
Speaker 2: just get to think about the work that they've made

1439
01:16:46,479 --> 01:16:50,640
Speaker 2: or who they were or are. You cannot help but

1440
01:16:50,680 --> 01:16:51,720
Speaker 2: think what they could have been.

1441
01:16:52,200 --> 01:16:55,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, because that's the other sad footnote to the Kathleen

1442
01:16:55,680 --> 01:16:58,960
Speaker 1: Collins stories that she passed away from breast cancer at

1443
01:16:59,000 --> 01:17:01,519
Speaker 1: forty six. I mean, and like the gun, she died young,

1444
01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:05,880
Speaker 1: and I think that she would have done so much more.

1445
01:17:06,600 --> 01:17:09,160
Speaker 1: You know, we didn't even know what she was actually

1446
01:17:09,160 --> 01:17:13,680
Speaker 1: capable of. And she has an entire archive of unpublished

1447
01:17:13,680 --> 01:17:17,519
Speaker 1: writing and work that apparently, like her daughter is now

1448
01:17:17,640 --> 01:17:20,160
Speaker 1: kind of championing and releasing. So it's kind of like

1449
01:17:20,760 --> 01:17:24,080
Speaker 1: you're lost unless you have somebody who has gone into

1450
01:17:24,160 --> 01:17:27,280
Speaker 1: your closet and pulled out all of your material and

1451
01:17:27,360 --> 01:17:29,400
Speaker 1: gives it life, you know, it's crazy, so.

1452
01:17:29,840 --> 01:17:32,360
Speaker 2: Like knows how to advocate for you because I think,

1453
01:17:32,360 --> 01:17:34,280
Speaker 2: go into someone's closet today and find a bunch of

1454
01:17:34,360 --> 01:17:37,880
Speaker 2: beautiful films and books and letters, I would have no

1455
01:17:37,960 --> 01:17:40,880
Speaker 2: idea where to begin to distribute that. We have to

1456
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:42,720
Speaker 2: have enough presence of mind to even know what to

1457
01:17:42,760 --> 01:17:45,200
Speaker 2: do with something that's that important and personal to you now,

1458
01:17:45,280 --> 01:17:47,560
Speaker 2: especially like if your mom is gone and this is

1459
01:17:47,600 --> 01:17:50,719
Speaker 2: all you have left, Like it is a true labor

1460
01:17:50,760 --> 01:17:53,040
Speaker 2: of love to make sure these things see the light

1461
01:17:53,120 --> 01:17:54,960
Speaker 2: of day and get the credit and the do that

1462
01:17:55,000 --> 01:17:57,479
Speaker 2: they are worth and that they deserve. Yeah.

1463
01:17:57,520 --> 01:18:00,680
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And I mean just kind of wrap it up.

1464
01:18:00,720 --> 01:18:03,120
Speaker 1: I mean, when it comes down to it, like people

1465
01:18:03,160 --> 01:18:06,120
Speaker 1: like Kathleen Collins, people like Bill gun they have made

1466
01:18:06,240 --> 01:18:13,439
Speaker 1: such important films that I think have only really really

1467
01:18:13,479 --> 01:18:16,040
Speaker 1: truly gotten their due in the air of the internet

1468
01:18:16,439 --> 01:18:21,360
Speaker 1: because archiving is changing, because you know, distribution is changing,

1469
01:18:21,920 --> 01:18:24,920
Speaker 1: and that is a good thing. But it's sad that

1470
01:18:24,960 --> 01:18:29,360
Speaker 1: they weren't around to get that validation that they deserved.

1471
01:18:29,439 --> 01:18:32,519
Speaker 1: So I mean, I'm just I'm glad that we at

1472
01:18:32,600 --> 01:18:35,800
Speaker 1: least talked a little bit about them, about Bill Gunn

1473
01:18:36,479 --> 01:18:38,120
Speaker 1: and these movies are so great.

1474
01:18:38,200 --> 01:18:41,559
Speaker 3: I Love Losing Ground. It is such a good movie.

1475
01:18:41,640 --> 01:18:45,080
Speaker 2: To me, I'm so glad you picked it because it's fantastic.

1476
01:18:46,000 --> 01:18:48,200
Speaker 2: It's also a there's such a case to be made,

1477
01:18:48,479 --> 01:18:51,360
Speaker 2: And this is the exact reason. This conversation we've just

1478
01:18:51,439 --> 01:18:53,680
Speaker 2: had is the exact reason there is a case to

1479
01:18:53,720 --> 01:18:59,160
Speaker 2: be made for finding ways to kind of storm the

1480
01:18:59,240 --> 01:19:03,719
Speaker 2: castle when it comes to putting people of color, putting

1481
01:19:03,880 --> 01:19:08,840
Speaker 2: black people, putting people into roles that might seem insignificant

1482
01:19:08,840 --> 01:19:12,040
Speaker 2: to you but are actually part of the gatekeeping process.

1483
01:19:12,280 --> 01:19:14,880
Speaker 2: There need to be black film archivists. There need to

1484
01:19:14,920 --> 01:19:20,040
Speaker 2: be black people who are not necessarily watching out for this,

1485
01:19:20,120 --> 01:19:22,080
Speaker 2: like they shouldn't be the only ones, but who are

1486
01:19:22,120 --> 01:19:26,880
Speaker 2: at least part of this process of discovery and part

1487
01:19:26,920 --> 01:19:30,280
Speaker 2: of this process of valuation. Like there needs to be

1488
01:19:30,960 --> 01:19:34,080
Speaker 2: more diversity and things that you wouldn't even consider to

1489
01:19:34,120 --> 01:19:37,400
Speaker 2: be important to the process. It's not just the director,

1490
01:19:37,400 --> 01:19:39,479
Speaker 2: it's not just the writer, it's not just the producer.

1491
01:19:40,040 --> 01:19:42,880
Speaker 2: It is the whole thing, top to bottom, all.

1492
01:19:42,880 --> 01:19:46,880
Speaker 1: Right, Danielle, This was an amazing fun time to be

1493
01:19:46,960 --> 01:19:50,160
Speaker 1: sitting here with you talking about these movies. But we

1494
01:19:50,240 --> 01:19:52,639
Speaker 1: have an episode coming next week, and I was wondering

1495
01:19:52,640 --> 01:19:55,320
Speaker 1: if maybe you'd want to share the films that people

1496
01:19:55,360 --> 01:19:55,960
Speaker 1: should watch.

1497
01:19:56,520 --> 01:20:02,080
Speaker 2: I absolutely do. How did you know? It's because we

1498
01:20:02,120 --> 01:20:05,599
Speaker 2: do the same thing every week. Our movies next week,

1499
01:20:05,640 --> 01:20:09,240
Speaker 2: and again you are welcome to guess our theme. Our

1500
01:20:09,280 --> 01:20:12,519
Speaker 2: movies are to Sleep with Anger released in nineteen ninety

1501
01:20:13,000 --> 01:20:17,599
Speaker 2: and Penitentiary released in nineteen seventy nine.

1502
01:20:17,840 --> 01:20:20,599
Speaker 3: Wo, what's the theme? I mean, you know the general

1503
01:20:20,640 --> 01:20:21,200
Speaker 3: theme of the.

1504
01:20:21,160 --> 01:20:23,759
Speaker 2: Month, but yeah, you can't. You can't guess Black History

1505
01:20:23,800 --> 01:20:29,799
Speaker 2: Month as a theme. Next week will be a theme

1506
01:20:30,200 --> 01:20:33,439
Speaker 2: that is just like our other all our other themes.

1507
01:20:34,320 --> 01:20:37,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, so come come to our social media and show

1508
01:20:37,920 --> 01:20:38,639
Speaker 3: off your smarts.

1509
01:20:38,720 --> 01:20:42,320
Speaker 2: Our social media is great. Just saying I think.

1510
01:20:42,160 --> 01:20:45,439
Speaker 1: We're really happy about the conversations that people were having

1511
01:20:45,520 --> 01:20:49,320
Speaker 1: on our Instagram, especially what's the Instagram and Twitter?

1512
01:20:49,360 --> 01:20:52,600
Speaker 2: Again, those handles are I saw pod.

1513
01:20:53,040 --> 01:20:54,559
Speaker 3: And you can also email us too.

1514
01:20:55,520 --> 01:20:58,280
Speaker 1: I saw what you did pod at gmail dot com.

1515
01:20:58,560 --> 01:21:00,760
Speaker 2: And thank you to the person who email to let

1516
01:21:00,800 --> 01:21:03,200
Speaker 2: us know that our email address was incorrect on our Twitter.

1517
01:21:03,280 --> 01:21:06,320
Speaker 2: See how that works social media all around.

1518
01:21:06,920 --> 01:21:09,519
Speaker 1: I'm certain that was my fault because I basically created

1519
01:21:09,560 --> 01:21:11,479
Speaker 1: the handle, So sorry about that.

1520
01:21:13,040 --> 01:21:15,439
Speaker 2: Look, it's a lot of I saw and pod on

1521
01:21:15,640 --> 01:21:18,920
Speaker 2: every document we look at, so do not sweat.

1522
01:21:20,240 --> 01:21:23,280
Speaker 3: Oh lord, well, thank you for that, and thank you Danielle.

1523
01:21:23,280 --> 01:21:26,880
Speaker 3: Thanks to everybody who are listening, and we'll see.

1524
01:21:26,760 --> 01:21:28,719
Speaker 2: You next week. See you next week, y'all.

1525
01:21:28,720 --> 01:21:29,080
Speaker 1: Bye.

1526
01:21:35,400 --> 01:21:37,760
Speaker 2: This has been an exactly right production. Our producer is

1527
01:21:37,840 --> 01:21:41,280
Speaker 2: Laura Elizabeth Brown, Our engineer is Honilye Snelson. Our social

1528
01:21:41,360 --> 01:21:45,120
Speaker 2: media assistant is Taren Maza. Our theme songs by Tom Bryfogel,

1529
01:21:45,320 --> 01:21:48,799
Speaker 2: artwork by Garrett Ross. Our executive producers are Georgia Hartstark,

1530
01:21:48,920 --> 01:21:51,720
Speaker 2: Karen Coilgareth and Danielle Kramer. You can follow us on

1531
01:21:51,760 --> 01:21:54,960
Speaker 2: Instagram and Twitter at I saw Pod and as always,

1532
01:21:55,000 --> 01:21:58,840
Speaker 2: please listen, subscribe, and leave us a review on Apple podcast,

1533
01:21:58,920 --> 01:22:23,360
Speaker 2: Stitcher or wherever you with it. H