Speaker 1: H m hm. You're listening to Playback, a Variety I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio podcast. I'm your host, Variety Awards Editor Chris Tapley.
Speaker 1: This week we have actor John c Riley on the
Speaker 1: show here to discuss his work in a range of films,
Speaker 1: including Western, The Sisters Brothers, and the upcoming Disney sequel
Speaker 1: Rolph Breaks the Internet. He's got a busy year ahead,
Speaker 1: so sit tight. This is playback, all right, you too,
Speaker 1: tack here, Matt. Thanks for coming in, Matt, my pleasure.
Speaker 1: We're already up and running. So I'm gonna dive in
Speaker 1: here today with John c Riley, the star of us
Speaker 1: The Sisters Brothers, a few movies actually The Sisters Brothers,
Speaker 1: which is gonna be premiering at the Venice Film Festival.
Speaker 1: Also Ralph Breaks the Internet. We're gonna get Ralph too,
Speaker 1: and also the four movies actually coming out. Yeah, what's
Speaker 1: the one I'm missing? Sherlock Holmes's Will Ferrell. Yeah, Holmes
Speaker 1: and Watson. It's called you like staying busy. I like
Speaker 1: relaxing actually, but when when the sun shining, you gotta
Speaker 1: make hey right, I hear you. Oh, thanks for coming
Speaker 1: on the show today. I really appreciate it um before
Speaker 1: we get into the movies. I kind of wanted to
Speaker 1: dive back a little bit. You know, when you started
Speaker 1: your career, you started with Casualties of War Bryan to Palmer. Also,
Speaker 1: We're No Angels and Days of Thunder its Neil Jordan
Speaker 1: and Tony Scott. So these kind of cinema titans. I'm
Speaker 1: curious what you like, What were the last My whole
Speaker 1: career has been cinemat It seems like like one top
Speaker 1: the next. And I realized when I got that first job,
Speaker 1: because you know, at that point, I was twenty two
Speaker 1: years old coming out of Chicago. I've never been in
Speaker 1: an airplane before, let alone in a movie. And uh,
Speaker 1: after I did Casualties and I met this amazing guy,
Speaker 1: Sean Penn and Brian to Palmer, I realized, like, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: well I've gotten off to a pretty good start here.
Speaker 1: I should try to like have everything top the next
Speaker 1: if I can, you know, like um, because I was
Speaker 1: just so thrilled to be working on anything, literally anything.
Speaker 1: I was taking auditions in Chicago while I was doing
Speaker 1: theater there when I was just out of college, and
Speaker 1: I just wanted to make a buck, you know what,
Speaker 1: I mean, I was just trying to get out of
Speaker 1: the South Side of Chicago and then um, and then
Speaker 1: it just occurred to me, you like. I think part
Speaker 1: of it was that I somehow didn't believe that you
Speaker 1: could really have a career in movies. Like when I
Speaker 1: was a kid, I thought of movie actors as like
Speaker 1: the real that was what they really were, Like, I
Speaker 1: couldn't even I had reference points for theater in my life.
Speaker 1: I had done a lot of theater since I was
Speaker 1: a little kid, and so I understood like that life
Speaker 1: what it means to be like an actor doing plays.
Speaker 1: But movie guys like I remember, just like watching Gene
Speaker 1: Hackin in French Connection in the theater and going, Wow,
Speaker 1: what a cool guy, Like I just thought that's who
Speaker 1: he was. I didn't. I didn't put it together that
Speaker 1: actors were people somehow, movie actors anyway, because they seem
Speaker 1: so much bigger than life. But um, But once I
Speaker 1: started to get going and I had some great mentors
Speaker 1: earlier on Sean Penn was a great mentor of mine.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have a career if it wasn't for Sean Penn.
Speaker 1: Because Sean advocated for me on that first movie. I
Speaker 1: was originally cast in Causualties of War as a day
Speaker 1: player at just one scene where I get my arm
Speaker 1: blown off, and then the casting changed while I when
Speaker 1: I got over to Thailand, they recast a couple of
Speaker 1: different parts and I ended up moving into one of
Speaker 1: the leads in the movie. UM. I think partially because
Speaker 1: or maybe entirely, because Sean Penn believed in me, and
Speaker 1: he told you it's a big risk. I had never
Speaker 1: been in a movie before, literally not never been on
Speaker 1: film before, so for a big Hollywood movie, that's a
Speaker 1: considerable risk to take. And I think I mean Sean
Speaker 1: and I actually have never talked about it, even though
Speaker 1: I've known him now for so long and I feel
Speaker 1: so close to him and his whole family. Um, we
Speaker 1: never talked about it, but I know that behind the
Speaker 1: scenes he must have said to Brian, like Brian to Palmer, like,
Speaker 1: don't worry, this kid can do it. Because we've done
Speaker 1: a lot of rehearsing for that movie, where I was
Speaker 1: started reading utility roles for the characters that weren't there,
Speaker 1: and I was coming at it from a theatrical perspective,
Speaker 1: which is like you just it doesn't matter if you
Speaker 1: think you're an eighty year old Vietnamese man. That's what
Speaker 1: you're being asked to do, so you have to throw
Speaker 1: yourself into it. And so um, like, for instance, there
Speaker 1: was an eighty year old Vietnamese man and one of
Speaker 1: these scenes and the we didn't have someone there when
Speaker 1: we're rehearsing, so they were like, yeah, John, you you
Speaker 1: read that part. Like So, I think I just impressed
Speaker 1: Sean early on with my enthusiasm and my willingness to
Speaker 1: just like let go of my ego and do whatever
Speaker 1: it was that needed to be done to tell the
Speaker 1: story that day. And there was a there was a
Speaker 1: lot of ego in that room. You know, a lot
Speaker 1: of young actors who were feeling like, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: they needed to kind of go toe to toe with
Speaker 1: Sean or something or prove that they were as tough
Speaker 1: as him or whatever. And I was like, I'm an
Speaker 1: actor man like Shaun could kick my ass. I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't need to prove myself in that way. Check
Speaker 1: this out window, what you're going to buy? I wonder
Speaker 1: if you can see me? Can you see me? Anyway?
Speaker 1: So yeah, so Sean was an early advocate of mine,
Speaker 1: and I really do oh my life in movies to
Speaker 1: him and Brian to Palmer and Art Linson. Those are
Speaker 1: the first three people who you know, just threw caution
Speaker 1: to the wind and gave me that first shot. So cool. Well,
Speaker 1: I forgot what you asked me, but I started off
Speaker 1: with Titans of the Cinema. I think it was your question. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and Tony Scott, Neil Jordan. I'm just curious what you
Speaker 1: what you learned early on from guys like that. Tony
Speaker 1: Scott was actually my fourth movie. The first one was
Speaker 1: cast he was Brian to Palma, then was Neil Jordan,
Speaker 1: and Where No Angels and then State of Grace with Pilano. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all three with Sean. But I should point out just
Speaker 1: as a point of pride because it's something that I've
Speaker 1: done through my whole life. As much as I admire
Speaker 1: Sean and appreciate everything that he did for me, I
Speaker 1: had to earn every one of those spots. It wasn't
Speaker 1: like Sean was saying, you have to cast this guy.
Speaker 1: I like him. He was saying, this kid's good, give
Speaker 1: him a chance. And then all three of those movies
Speaker 1: I had to audition extensively for and show the director
Speaker 1: that I actually had the goods. Um. So, yeah, so
Speaker 1: there's no free lunch. I guess that's what I'm saying. Uh.
Speaker 1: Brian's obviously very singular filmmaker. Um, you know, did I
Speaker 1: keep coming back to the question like what what what
Speaker 1: do you what did you learn from from him? From
Speaker 1: from a Tony Scott, from Neil Jordan's from you know,
Speaker 1: just early on when you're first getting your start, where
Speaker 1: you're scared starting to become a screen actor. Uh well
Speaker 1: I wasn't especially scared, I think mostly because I was
Speaker 1: sort of ignorant about what well how big of an
Speaker 1: opportunity it was to me. I mean initially I was
Speaker 1: so blown away by that first part I got that date,
Speaker 1: just that day player role, like one just any part
Speaker 1: in the movie. I was like, oh my god, I'm
Speaker 1: They're gonna fly me into Thailand, Like it's insane. So
Speaker 1: it's already in a place of extreme gratitude and wonderment.
Speaker 1: But in terms of being nervous, like I've been acting
Speaker 1: since I was eight years old, so I knew, like
Speaker 1: why I know how to do this? I'm sure there's
Speaker 1: a lot of technical stuff that I don't understand, and
Speaker 1: to this day, there's quite a bit of technical stuff
Speaker 1: that I don't understand. But what's most important for actors
Speaker 1: in front of the camera is just lose yourself and
Speaker 1: to be confident and to just completely submerge yourself into
Speaker 1: the material so that I knew I already knew I
Speaker 1: could do. I do remember a couple of moments on
Speaker 1: that movie, though, where I remember once I had seen Sean,
Speaker 1: I think, asked for another take. You know, he can
Speaker 1: do another one. I want to do another one. I
Speaker 1: have something else I want to do, which is something
Speaker 1: like with seniority, it's pretty common among actors on movies.
Speaker 1: But then I thought, like, you know, we're doing a
Speaker 1: scene and I was like, Brian, can can I do
Speaker 1: one more? You know? And he was like everyone, John
Speaker 1: Riley wants another take, so we're going to do another take.
Speaker 1: And I remember looking at him in this kind of
Speaker 1: guileless way, like what is that? Is that a problem?
Speaker 1: Like Shahn did it? Like I didn't understand it was
Speaker 1: this big deal. I thought like, don't you want the
Speaker 1: best for me? Like like give me another crack at it?
Speaker 1: Like um, So I realized early on, like all this
Speaker 1: kind of deference to famous people and and treating directors
Speaker 1: like these legends or these screen titans. It was there
Speaker 1: was no future in that. It was just that's not
Speaker 1: that's not what they wanted, and it's not what was
Speaker 1: gonna help me accomplish what I needed to do every day.
Speaker 1: I needed to just look at the people I was
Speaker 1: working with as partners and as peers and as people
Speaker 1: that I was working together with in collaboration with. Not
Speaker 1: these people I was lucky to be around, you know,
Speaker 1: I understood I was lucky to be around them, But
Speaker 1: that's not the way you have to know you can
Speaker 1: behave in those two Actually your working Yeah, did you
Speaker 1: have a roadmap at all in those early stages, like
Speaker 1: what you wanted your career to be, what how you
Speaker 1: wanted to get in there, any idea whatsoever? No, not
Speaker 1: at all. Really, Like, like I said, I didn't really
Speaker 1: have any reference points in my life. I grew up
Speaker 1: on the South Side of Chicago and very Irish Catholic
Speaker 1: kind of upbringing, and there was just nobody. There were
Speaker 1: barely any people that were doing theater, you know, let
Speaker 1: alone movies, like it just seemed like this crazy thing.
Speaker 1: So I didn't have a roadmap. But then I started
Speaker 1: to create um, not so much a roadmap, because you know,
Speaker 1: whenever I hear actors talk about like, well, my goals
Speaker 1: are this, and I'm gonna do this, and I'm going
Speaker 1: to do that. Like the truth is an actor's life
Speaker 1: is one of like hitching your wagon to other people's momentum.
Speaker 1: You know, So this idea that you're planning something like
Speaker 1: most of the time, especially when you're starting out, you're
Speaker 1: just looking for opportunities that other people are bringing to you,
Speaker 1: not you know, looking for you know, trying to accomplish
Speaker 1: some some specific goal or some kind of role or whatever. UM.
Speaker 1: But you know that said, I did sort of develop
Speaker 1: like a point of view about um quality control. And
Speaker 1: Sean really taught me that early on. He was like
Speaker 1: listen because I remember we were doing our second film together,
Speaker 1: We're New Angels, and I had been offered this other
Speaker 1: sort of it was a good movie to actually um.
Speaker 1: It was this movie Memphis Bell. I remember I had
Speaker 1: been offered this role in Memphis Bell and and I
Speaker 1: was trying to decide between doing Memphis Bell or doing
Speaker 1: State of Grace with Sean, and uh, I was really
Speaker 1: struggling with it because I felt really beholden to Sean
Speaker 1: because he had had already like taught me so much,
Speaker 1: and I was I took him aside and I was like,
Speaker 1: hey man, I'm trying to figure out what to do here.
Speaker 1: I got these two offers. I really want to do
Speaker 1: this thing with you, but there's other great part two.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what I should do. And he's like, well,
Speaker 1: what do you want to do? Like, wow, I don't know.
Speaker 1: My agents are saying that I should do this other thing.
Speaker 1: And he's like who. I was like, my agent said,
Speaker 1: he's like your agent. I was like yeah, he's like
Speaker 1: that's the last person you should be listening to for
Speaker 1: advice about what you should do. And it was so
Speaker 1: counterintuitive to me at the time. I thought agents were
Speaker 1: the gatekeepers of everything you know, and Sean really including
Speaker 1: in early on, like those people have an agenda and
Speaker 1: it's not your agenda. They're looking for ten percent of
Speaker 1: the most amount of money that you can get. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you have to just ignore everyone. But that inner
Speaker 1: voice of the of yourself as an artist, what is
Speaker 1: what is it that you're drawn to do? What you know?
Speaker 1: What do you you know? What do you see yourself
Speaker 1: doing your best work? At so. Needless to say, I
Speaker 1: passed on Memphis Spell, although I love that movie. I
Speaker 1: thought was really good. And uh, I love a World
Speaker 1: War two story where Gary Olman last year talking about
Speaker 1: State of Grace on the show Here. That's why Gary
Speaker 1: was in a wild place at that time in his life. Man.
Speaker 1: I wonder what he said about it, because he was
Speaker 1: talking about how, you know, just finding the character. The
Speaker 1: smallest thing could help him find the character. Like he
Speaker 1: was trying on a jacket and he flipped his hair
Speaker 1: and suddenly he saw that he had the character. I
Speaker 1: remember that hair flip. I saw him do that in
Speaker 1: the movie. It's like this kind of chip on his
Speaker 1: shoulder psychological gesture. Yeah, that was just wild. Let's remember
Speaker 1: like a nineteen year old or twenty year old Uma
Speaker 1: Thurman just wafting up onto the set to visit Gary.
Speaker 1: At that moment, I was like, oh my god, Like
Speaker 1: this what happens when you're famous movie star? Like people
Speaker 1: like that just show up to visit you. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, along the way, you know, he kind of
Speaker 1: made this transition eventually to comedy, started working with you know,
Speaker 1: jud Apatao and Kasden and Adam A long, long time
Speaker 1: after the movies we're talking about now. But I'm just
Speaker 1: it's it's interesting to me to have that kind of
Speaker 1: shift in the in the middle of your career. Uh
Speaker 1: and and you're so great at your natural at it.
Speaker 1: You know, some of the stuff you did with Paul
Speaker 1: Thomas Anderson had inherent comedy to it as well. So
Speaker 1: just what was that about? Was that a conscious decision
Speaker 1: with what was going on? Well, like I like I
Speaker 1: was just saying about afters having goals. You know, it's
Speaker 1: like you're just you're trying to stay in the groove,
Speaker 1: you know, like you're trying to like not get in
Speaker 1: your way and not put preconceptions on things. So when things,
Speaker 1: good opportunities come your way, you have to follow your
Speaker 1: your instincts. And my instincts were then and still are,
Speaker 1: like look for inspired people that you think are funny
Speaker 1: or challenging or and more intelligent than you or whatever
Speaker 1: it is, people that are gonna challenge you and bring
Speaker 1: it to a new place than you've already been. So
Speaker 1: I met um Will Ferrell through Molly Shannon and then
Speaker 1: Um and Will and I just had right away this
Speaker 1: sort of sympatico feeling towards each other, and we almost
Speaker 1: did Anchorman together but that didn't work out. So I
Speaker 1: was working on something. But when luckily, when those guys
Speaker 1: did their next movie, they came to me again for
Speaker 1: Tell Dagon Nights, and um, I realized then, like, it
Speaker 1: doesn't it's not for me. Like there's this great, great
Speaker 1: quote that I always think about, which is, um, what
Speaker 1: other people think of you is none of your business.
Speaker 1: So this idea that like, well, I'm a dramatic actor
Speaker 1: or I'm a comedian guy. It's like, just never mind
Speaker 1: about what other people are saying about you. Just do
Speaker 1: your work, you know, and work with people that inspire you,
Speaker 1: and and go towards material that you think is inspired
Speaker 1: and and well done. And I had done a lot
Speaker 1: of improvisation already with Paul Thomas Anderson for his films,
Speaker 1: and and Adam McKay and Will Ferrell saw that I
Speaker 1: was like really down to improvise, and that's like the
Speaker 1: sort of lifeblood of what they do together. So it's
Speaker 1: just it was a real no brainer. I mean, I
Speaker 1: suppose if you were trying to create some profile that
Speaker 1: you're serious actor, you would avoid doing comedy. But that
Speaker 1: just seems stupid to me, like, if you can do it,
Speaker 1: I mean, that's sort of my mantra for my whole life.
Speaker 1: Do whatever you can, you know, if it's sing a
Speaker 1: song or write a poem, or being a comedy or
Speaker 1: a drama or whatever it is, like, you should do it.
Speaker 1: You should. You should. Don't let some uh perceived box
Speaker 1: keep you from exploring artistic avenues for yourself. By the way,
Speaker 1: why has it been twenty years since you and Paul
Speaker 1: Thomas Anderson made a movie together, which I can both
Speaker 1: been very busy. I'm still very close friends with Paul.
Speaker 1: We see each other all the time. So but that
Speaker 1: was always sort of our agreement, you know, as we
Speaker 1: did three movies together in a row, and you know,
Speaker 1: after the first one, I said to him, listen, only
Speaker 1: put me in a movie. If you see that there's
Speaker 1: a role for me, don't do it because you're my friend.
Speaker 1: It goes back to this kind of arrangement. I have
Speaker 1: a sean on those first few movies, like I don't
Speaker 1: want to be in I don't want these opportunities if
Speaker 1: their favors from you. I want these opportunities because I'm
Speaker 1: the right guy for the job. So that's sort of
Speaker 1: what I said to Paul too after that first movie, like, look,
Speaker 1: don't feel like you have to do anything. You're an
Speaker 1: artist and you have a vision for your story. And
Speaker 1: if I'm the right guy, I'm the right guy. No
Speaker 1: no harm, no foul, you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 1: no no offense if you need to go a different
Speaker 1: way or whatever. And so he took that to heart.
Speaker 1: After my third movie, Well, I'll speak for a lot
Speaker 1: of people, would love to see you guys work together again.
Speaker 1: I mean that was yeah, I'm sure we will. I'm
Speaker 1: sure we will. I just don't know what Knights Magnolia
Speaker 1: was in film school in collaboration was pretty big deal
Speaker 1: for a lot of us. So we'd we'd love to
Speaker 1: see you back. Well, I hope Paul's listening. He's very busy.
Speaker 1: I loved it. I was loved it. I mean I
Speaker 1: was somewhat mystified by the lack of industry support, in
Speaker 1: particular awards for that movie, although it was rewarded in
Speaker 1: some ways. I thought, how can you look at a
Speaker 1: movie that is that it's like the lead up to
Speaker 1: the Oscars because it got the Best Picture nomination, right,
Speaker 1: they got nominated, but like it's something so I just
Speaker 1: thought I should have swept, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Paul not only wrote and directed that movie, he shot
Speaker 1: that movie. He was the director of photography and the
Speaker 1: camera operator, and it was Daniel day Lewis in front
Speaker 1: of the camera. Was like not like a walk in
Speaker 1: the park, you know, like Daniel is a demanding actor
Speaker 1: who who demands your attention, Like he's as demanding with
Speaker 1: everyone around him as he is with himself. He's a brilliant,
Speaker 1: brilliant actor. So the idea that Paul was like having
Speaker 1: to take care of all these technical aspects and be
Speaker 1: in this relationship with Daniel, I thought that was just
Speaker 1: a stunning display of virtuosic filmmaking. Um and I also
Speaker 1: thought the film was really funny and you know, deeply,
Speaker 1: uh just really well observed about relationships and and what
Speaker 1: goes on between men and women and what esthetics mean,
Speaker 1: why aesthetics are so important to some people anyway. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: that's what I thought of that fancy thread. You're a fan.
Speaker 1: Before I get into the new movie, I just want
Speaker 1: to start. I did want to talk about the Thin
Speaker 1: Red Line also, just because anybody that was in the
Speaker 1: Thin Red Line I want to know they're gonna have
Speaker 1: to get to the Jacquo the yard at some point,
Speaker 1: but we're gonna get there. But I just, you know,
Speaker 1: it was a larger part like many people, and it's
Speaker 1: a good problem to have, like a lot of movies
Speaker 1: that that people want to talk about. But tell me
Speaker 1: about your experience working with Malick and and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: were you heartbroken at at the part getting whittled down
Speaker 1: like the number of the other and not at all?
Speaker 1: I was, uh, you know, I quickly realized I was
Speaker 1: doing a play in Chicago. I was doing a streetcar
Speaker 1: named Desire in Chicago at the Stepmo Theater at the
Speaker 1: time when I auditioned for that movie, and I was
Speaker 1: just like I was such a huge fan of bad
Speaker 1: Lands and Days of Heaven that I was like, I
Speaker 1: got to at least be I want this guy to
Speaker 1: know that I exist. I just wanted to see an
Speaker 1: audition of mine. That's that was like, that was as
Speaker 1: much as I was hoping for it, you know. So
Speaker 1: I made this audition tape for him, and there was
Speaker 1: this I remember the whole sequence where I was I
Speaker 1: auditioned for a few different parts in that movie, and
Speaker 1: I remember I auditioned for Elias Koteas as part at
Speaker 1: one point, and there's this all its intense scenes where
Speaker 1: he's in a foxhole and he's communicating by radio to
Speaker 1: Nicknolty's character and he's getting these orders that he's disobeying
Speaker 1: and it's this super intense while they're being fired on scene,
Speaker 1: and I remember, like, well, it's gotta I can't, like,
Speaker 1: I can't have the casting person be feeding these these
Speaker 1: intense lines off camera, like they're the cues aren't gonna
Speaker 1: be there and it's not gonna have the intensity that
Speaker 1: needs to have. So I figured out this brilliant thing
Speaker 1: I thought, which would take a micro cassette recorder, and
Speaker 1: I recorded all of the other lines on the micro
Speaker 1: cassette and I held it like a radio, so I
Speaker 1: would I would say my line and then I pressed
Speaker 1: play and you'd hear the response come over the cassette recorder.
Speaker 1: And it worked really well. I got a part in
Speaker 1: the movie, which not that part, but I got a
Speaker 1: part in the movie. But anyway, to answer your question
Speaker 1: about whether I was heartbroken up about the amount of
Speaker 1: my role that was cut down from the film, I
Speaker 1: quickly realized once I got there that Terry. In my mind,
Speaker 1: Terry is more of a philosopher than a filmmaker. In
Speaker 1: a lot of ways, He's not. He doesn't have the
Speaker 1: same concerns on a set that other directors I've worked
Speaker 1: with have had. Terry, it seemed to me, was just
Speaker 1: someone who was looking for the truth every day. He
Speaker 1: was looking for honesty and looking for the truth. And
Speaker 1: if he could find that truth and a bird flying
Speaker 1: by or in the drops of dew, on a piece
Speaker 1: of grass, or on an extra, or on Sean Penn
Speaker 1: or on Nick and Nolty, like that's what he was
Speaker 1: going to film that day. I'm often at Golden hour,
Speaker 1: you know, or magic hour at the end of the day. Um.
Speaker 1: So I realized, like, we're just you know, I said
Speaker 1: to Terry one day, like I was reading the book again, Terry,
Speaker 1: because my character that I that I was given was
Speaker 1: actually the voice piece of James Jones, who wrote the book.
Speaker 1: It was kind of like his worldview came through in
Speaker 1: that character. So I thought, cool, I'm like the voice
Speaker 1: of the author and this is the great part. Um.
Speaker 1: But then I realized, like when I said to Terry,
Speaker 1: you know, Terry is reading the book again today and
Speaker 1: he's like, oh, you read a book, John, And I
Speaker 1: was like yeah. And he's like, you read the whole thing.
Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, yeah, I read the whole thing.
Speaker 1: He's like, oh, I haven't, he said, I haven't read
Speaker 1: a book all the way through in many, many years.
Speaker 1: I was like, what are you talking about, Terry, what
Speaker 1: are you doing. He's like, oh, I just opened a
Speaker 1: book to whatever page it is, and then I read
Speaker 1: as long as I'm interested. And so I realized like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this guy is not thinking in a linear way. He
Speaker 1: wrote the script and it's based on this book, and
Speaker 1: it does have this linear threat to the script, but
Speaker 1: we're not doing that. That was just the excuse to
Speaker 1: all get us all here, and now he's gonna try
Speaker 1: to find some truth. So by the time post production happened,
Speaker 1: you know, Terry was very gracious and called me and
Speaker 1: said it was the greatest line. He's like, he's like, John,
Speaker 1: I just want him to give you heads up, um,
Speaker 1: and everyone does it. Terry matter compression. By the way
Speaker 1: he was working on them, I felt that some parts
Speaker 1: of the picture were like ice flows that's separated from
Speaker 1: the main and so some of your scenes well, John,
Speaker 1: they floated off and I was like, that's all right, Terry,
Speaker 1: and like that was that was, That's always been always
Speaker 1: I've said that so many directors. This which is, I
Speaker 1: just provide the coal, you know, you turn them into diamonds. Man, Like,
Speaker 1: I'm not precious about this piece of coal or that
Speaker 1: piece of coal. I just I just throw everything I
Speaker 1: have at it and then good luck in the editing room.
Speaker 1: Is how I feel about film. Film is the director's medium,
Speaker 1: you know, not an actor's medium. So you can't get
Speaker 1: too hung up on or too precious about any little moment.
Speaker 1: You know. Well, the result is you're in one of
Speaker 1: the finest films ever made. So thanks there you are.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about The Sisters Brothers again. I say, I
Speaker 1: think this is one of your best performances. I loved
Speaker 1: your interplay with Joaquin. And this is Jack Odyard, the
Speaker 1: director of A prophet Um again, one of my favorite
Speaker 1: movies of recent times. I'm curious about, you know, do
Speaker 1: you feel comfortable working in a Western kind of slipping
Speaker 1: into that cadence the language. Yeah, I mean for lack
Speaker 1: of a I mean, if there's one thing that's true
Speaker 1: about my career and around. I I'm talking to variety today,
Speaker 1: But that is the one thing about my career. It
Speaker 1: has variety. Like I wish in some some days when
Speaker 1: I'm really tired and having to reinvent the wheel yet
Speaker 1: again for another role another movie. I wish like I
Speaker 1: was the type of actor that just had a sort
Speaker 1: of persona and did the same thing within reason in
Speaker 1: different films. But just the way it is with me,
Speaker 1: I do different things. So Western was one of the
Speaker 1: few things that I hadn't done, and I loved working outdoors.
Speaker 1: I've been craving, especially after I had just done standin Ali,
Speaker 1: where I was encased in a fat suit and prosthetics
Speaker 1: and indoors and theaters filled with fake smoke for three months.
Speaker 1: I was really anxious to get outside and and live
Speaker 1: that kind of like cowboy life. So uh yeah, I mean, look,
Speaker 1: you know what it's like to be a little kid.
Speaker 1: Every little boy wants to be a soldier and a
Speaker 1: cowboy and a spaceman and you know all these things.
Speaker 1: Like so I'm no different. Like, for sure, I wanted
Speaker 1: to be a cowboy. Um, but I've been offered Westerns
Speaker 1: in the past and passed on them because I thought
Speaker 1: they were really cliche or they were sort of trafficking
Speaker 1: in this nostalgia about the West as opposed to what
Speaker 1: was actually going on in the West in the eighteen fifties.
Speaker 1: So when I read Patrick DeWitt's book, which I bought
Speaker 1: the rights to after I read it, um, I thought
Speaker 1: he just had an amazingly original take on the genre. Where,
Speaker 1: I mean, the most striking thing about Patrick's book and
Speaker 1: I think Jacques film is that, unlike most movie cowboys
Speaker 1: and we're not really cowboys, we don't rustle cattle, we
Speaker 1: don't handle and we just ride horses. So I guess
Speaker 1: that's cowboyish, but we kill people and we use guns. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but um, we're not really how Poke says it where
Speaker 1: But anyway, what really struck me about Patrick's book was
Speaker 1: the characters have this emotional availability, as opposed to like
Speaker 1: a clinic Swood movie where it's almost like this opaque
Speaker 1: quality to the character. You can't you're the whole time.
Speaker 1: It's wonderful to watch because you're wondering what is he thinking,
Speaker 1: what is he what's he gonna do? What does he?
Speaker 1: How does he feel about this? Like and when you
Speaker 1: read the book, the sisters brothers. You were right there
Speaker 1: about what it feels like to kill somebody? What does
Speaker 1: it feel like to be trapped in this symbiotic relationship
Speaker 1: with your brother uh? And what does it feel like
Speaker 1: to to look at a toothbrush and not know what
Speaker 1: it is? You know? Like so all these amazingly original
Speaker 1: takes on on the time period in Patrick's book. So
Speaker 1: when this came about, I knew, like, oh, this is
Speaker 1: it like even hoping to do a Western, and this
Speaker 1: is it like um, And I'm glad that you responded
Speaker 1: to the film, And I'm glad that you liked my
Speaker 1: working in because I've worked harder on this film than
Speaker 1: and anything I've ever done. You know, from the pre
Speaker 1: production phase when my wife and I got the rights
Speaker 1: and developed it into a script with Patrick de Witt,
Speaker 1: to the to meeting Jacques. It was my wife, Alison
Speaker 1: Dickie's idea to go to Jock. By the way she was,
Speaker 1: I was, I'm sort of a I'm a fan of
Speaker 1: Jacks and I knew his films, but I wasn't tracking
Speaker 1: them in real time like my wife was. My wife
Speaker 1: was seeing each film as it came out and saying,
Speaker 1: oh my god, Oh my god, Oh my god. So
Speaker 1: she had already strung all of the Jacques films together
Speaker 1: in this way that I hadn't yet. But you know,
Speaker 1: like like anybody, you see the Prophet, you're like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, this guy is one of the best in
Speaker 1: the whole world. Like. So yeah, So I worked really
Speaker 1: hard with my wife putting this film together, and there
Speaker 1: were many many moments of um, you know, it seemed
Speaker 1: like the whole thing was going to blow up on
Speaker 1: our faces and fall apart. There's there's language difference between
Speaker 1: France and America. There's all these cultural differences. There's different
Speaker 1: ways of making films. There's different ways of thinking about film.
Speaker 1: You know, the French you think about film like like
Speaker 1: really like one of the arts. If you're film director
Speaker 1: in France, you treated like Picasso, you know, you treated
Speaker 1: like a fine artist, which really is what it is
Speaker 1: as at its highest aspirations, like film is a true
Speaker 1: art form like that. So anyway, there were many many
Speaker 1: moments along the way where it was just like just
Speaker 1: seem like insurmountable to get this big crew of people
Speaker 1: from France to to work with these you know, Americans,
Speaker 1: and then we shot in Spain and Romania and France.
Speaker 1: So every time there was like it was like a
Speaker 1: virtual tower of Babel trying to get all these different
Speaker 1: people to to work in concert together. But we eventually did,
Speaker 1: and I think the film really speaks to that. It
Speaker 1: reflects the film reflects the reality of the West at
Speaker 1: that time, which was that there were Chinese people in
Speaker 1: French people in Hungarians and Russians and all these people
Speaker 1: coming from all over the world and this mad search
Speaker 1: for gold or for opportunity or for a freer life. Um.
Speaker 1: So what seems counterintuitive at first when you think, like, oh,
Speaker 1: a Frenchman to direct the Western, when you actually look
Speaker 1: at what was going on in San Francisco in the
Speaker 1: Pacific Northwest in the eighteen fifties, you're like, oh, no,
Speaker 1: what better person than someone from Europe who understands what
Speaker 1: that initial impulse impulse of all those people was. Um.
Speaker 1: And that's you know, that's in a larger way, I
Speaker 1: think the film really captures a lot of that, and
Speaker 1: then in a more internal way, like all of us
Speaker 1: brought very personal parts of our lives to the story.
Speaker 1: I have brothers, Um and everyone involved in the film,
Speaker 1: whether it's Shock or Joaquin or riz or Jacob. Everyone
Speaker 1: brings some kind of family history with them to the story.
Speaker 1: And I think when I watched the film, uh, I
Speaker 1: feel like it's a really personal film for everybody, and
Speaker 1: that was our main and I'm really that's immensely gratifying,
Speaker 1: because our main concern when we're looking for a director
Speaker 1: originally was we wanted someone to make a film the
Speaker 1: way Paul Thomas Anderson makes a film, or the way
Speaker 1: Martin Scort saysn't he makes a film, or the way
Speaker 1: it term smell like, makes a film where it's a
Speaker 1: personal thing, it's a personal story. We didn't want to
Speaker 1: hire someone who could make a good western, you know.
Speaker 1: We wanted to find someone who has has moved by
Speaker 1: the book and the characters as we were, and then
Speaker 1: we want to hand the whole thing to that person
Speaker 1: and say, do what you will and make a story
Speaker 1: that resonates for you personally. And so I think at
Speaker 1: first Jock couldn't believe that we were just sort of
Speaker 1: dumping this opportunity in his lap, you know, like like
Speaker 1: like most people in the film business, that you get
Speaker 1: used to looking out for con jobs where people are
Speaker 1: to be aware of gifts that come you know, uninvited,
Speaker 1: but he eventually came around and and all of us
Speaker 1: ended up really putting our heart and souls into this movie.
Speaker 1: Was that part of the drive to film in Europe
Speaker 1: as well? I think that was more driven. Number one,
Speaker 1: you can't really find um exterior locations uh in America
Speaker 1: that you're allowed to shoot in, like like we were
Speaker 1: in the version we were in the Spain's version of
Speaker 1: like Yosemite, which you know, good luck shooting in Yosemite here,
Speaker 1: or even finding these kind of landscapes without um telephone
Speaker 1: wires and billboards and that kind of thing. So I
Speaker 1: think it was a good idea for that reason, first
Speaker 1: of all, because we could find these wild locations that
Speaker 1: really felt like the time. And but I think Jack's
Speaker 1: impetus for wanting to shoot there was he was very
Speaker 1: wary of coming outside of his comfort zone as a filmmaker.
Speaker 1: He didn't want to suddenly be like selling out to
Speaker 1: Hollywood or whatever you wanna call it. He didn't want
Speaker 1: to just be He didn't want to have to be
Speaker 1: absorbed into an American system of filmmaking. He wanted to
Speaker 1: make his films the way he makes them, which are
Speaker 1: brilliant you know. Um, so once they realized, like, wait,
Speaker 1: we could find that they did a location scout here
Speaker 1: in America, in Canada. Um. But at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, I think once they started to see these
Speaker 1: pictures coming in from Spain and Romania, They're like, oh wow,
Speaker 1: like we have it right here in our back door.
Speaker 1: And then they could use their crew and they could
Speaker 1: you know, just the spirit of the film like would
Speaker 1: be more familiar for for Jacques than it would be
Speaker 1: if he had just completely plopped himself into the middle
Speaker 1: of an American production. Let's touch briefly on Stanin Alie.
Speaker 1: You know Laurel and Hardy. You and Steve Coogan, Yeah,
Speaker 1: big fan growing up of huge. Laurel and Hardy are
Speaker 1: like the fountain head of it all for me, you know,
Speaker 1: like I think for a lot of actors. Um. Anyway,
Speaker 1: people old enough to know Loyal and Hardy are I think? Um?
Speaker 1: I mean Samuel Beckett was an enormous fan of Laurel
Speaker 1: and Hardy. By way of our director on Laurylan of
Speaker 1: the standin Aali movie. I've just heard that Martin Scorre
Speaker 1: says he really loved the film and he grew up
Speaker 1: watching Loyland Hardy and so anyone with any brains knows
Speaker 1: that Lauren Hardy are very very special and unique and
Speaker 1: and uh and they were the biggest movie stars in
Speaker 1: the world for a while there. Um, so sorry, what
Speaker 1: was the question talk about? Just talk about it because
Speaker 1: I haven't seen it yet unfortunately, But yeah, we're gonna
Speaker 1: be um, we we're gonna get We're hopefully gonna get
Speaker 1: a North American distributor out of Toronto at the Toronto
Speaker 1: Film Festival. But yeah, we're gonna close the London Film Festival,
Speaker 1: but we're hoping hoping to get a distribute distributor here
Speaker 1: before that. Um, anyway, you're rocking out of fat suit
Speaker 1: you said for that obviously, yeah, fat student protects by
Speaker 1: the amazing Mark Coulier and who. Yeah, so we decided
Speaker 1: to tell you know, we decided on that movie. Well,
Speaker 1: you can watch the films, so there's no point in
Speaker 1: recreating the films because they already exist in their utter
Speaker 1: brilliance and they're widely available. And and I developed the
Speaker 1: script with Steve Coogan and John Baird and um, Jeff Pope,
Speaker 1: and as we're crafting the story and what we were
Speaker 1: going to focus on for those two guys, because it
Speaker 1: was originally kind of by the numbers sort of biopics
Speaker 1: script that we had. And then as we went along,
Speaker 1: I was like, guys, anyone with a phone, which is
Speaker 1: everyone now can Google or Wikipedia this information. I think
Speaker 1: anything you can find out on Wikipedia, we shouldn't do
Speaker 1: in the movie because everyone can. Anyone who wants to
Speaker 1: know anything about Laurel and Hardy can just instantly access that.
Speaker 1: And that's just a feature of our world now that people,
Speaker 1: you know, if they want to, if you want to
Speaker 1: become educated about something, you can just tap right into it.
Speaker 1: And so to me, the most interesting part of their
Speaker 1: relationship was what was going on behind the scenes, like
Speaker 1: what was their friendship like, and that is very very little,
Speaker 1: um candid footage of them. There's been many books written
Speaker 1: about them, and they spoke about their relationship, but it's
Speaker 1: not widely known and um and then this idea that
Speaker 1: the film always had this plot of moving through their
Speaker 1: theatrical tours, that they were their last theatrical tour, which
Speaker 1: is something that they had to do because unlike Buster
Speaker 1: Keaton and Charlie Chaplin Harold Lloyd, they had no back
Speaker 1: end on their movies. They were like worldwide movie stars
Speaker 1: for six years there or something, but they had no
Speaker 1: back end. There was salary and employees gets hal Roach
Speaker 1: put them together. So they had to do these theatrical
Speaker 1: tours because they were broke when they were old. When
Speaker 1: they could no longer get movie work, they decided to
Speaker 1: just go back to this sort of music hall background
Speaker 1: that they both had. And uh and they say in
Speaker 1: their book, and you know, when you hear them talk
Speaker 1: about their life, they said like that is when they
Speaker 1: actually became very close personally. That when they were working
Speaker 1: together in their heyday, they were sort of like um
Speaker 1: co workers. You know, there were very different personalities. You know.
Speaker 1: Babe Hardy was like very into you know, the pleasures
Speaker 1: of life, you know, eating and drinking and and playing
Speaker 1: golf and you know, just living the highlights everything that
Speaker 1: was offered, you know out here in Hollywood at that time.
Speaker 1: And stand was a workaholic. He was this NonStop writing
Speaker 1: who was sort of shadow directing most of their movies,
Speaker 1: coming up with a lot of the gags and that
Speaker 1: kind of thing. So when they would work, you know,
Speaker 1: the work day would end and they just split and go,
Speaker 1: you know, Stanley go home and work, and Oliver would
Speaker 1: go and drinking party and play golf. Apparently was like
Speaker 1: a savant golfer and he would gamble on golfing and
Speaker 1: win lots of money. But anyway, so then they, you know,
Speaker 1: when they started to do these tours, they had to
Speaker 1: be together all of the time and from the train
Speaker 1: to the hotel to the stage, backstage waiting, so they
Speaker 1: spent all this time together and we all decided, like
Speaker 1: that is a very rich vein because no one knows
Speaker 1: what really happened backstage between the two of them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so there's a chance to really to really look at
Speaker 1: what does it mean to be in a in a
Speaker 1: creative partnership with someone that you're that close to, that
Speaker 1: you're that tied to, that you have that much love for.
Speaker 1: And it ends up being a very emotional story. I
Speaker 1: hope people enjoyed as much as I did. And then
Speaker 1: touch on wreck it Ralph, you know, just be being
Speaker 1: able to front this big Disney animated enterprise like this,
Speaker 1: Well it's our second one, so I'm getting used to it.
Speaker 1: But it goes back to improvisation. Really why I love
Speaker 1: working on those these Record Ralph movies so much because
Speaker 1: unlike every other kind of filmmaking, when you're in the
Speaker 1: recording studio, there's no concern about daylight, there's no even
Speaker 1: concerned about time really because you're always ahead of the animators.
Speaker 1: So you can just goof around and improvise and throw
Speaker 1: ideas back and forth with the writer and the director
Speaker 1: and it's happening there in real time. You can try anything.
Speaker 1: So there's a incredible amount of freedom, uh involved, And
Speaker 1: I love that. And you end up when you're given
Speaker 1: that kind of freedom and you were given the ability
Speaker 1: to improvise, what ends up happening is you short of
Speaker 1: channel a lot of your own personal heart into it.
Speaker 1: And that was one of my main concerns going into
Speaker 1: the first Record Ralph movie, was like, Yeah, we can
Speaker 1: make this big, shiny, exciting, dynamic distract action for kids,
Speaker 1: but we should never forget like this is a real
Speaker 1: opportunity to speak to kids all over the whole world,
Speaker 1: Like let's put some heart in it, Like let's put
Speaker 1: something that let's make our overall mission one of something
Speaker 1: more than just entertainment, you know, like let's connect to
Speaker 1: people emotionally. So I feel like we did that in
Speaker 1: the first one, and man, I was just what. I
Speaker 1: was just doing a d R the other day because
Speaker 1: the sequel is nearly done and I was weeping, like
Speaker 1: just watching this short little scene. Um, I feel like
Speaker 1: we accomplished it again on this in this sequel, a lot,
Speaker 1: a lot of heart. I have a son this time,
Speaker 1: so I can't wait to show them that good Well
Speaker 1: these uh check check out all these movies. Sisters, Brothers,
Speaker 1: Ralph Breaks the Internet, Stan and Ali and the Sherlock
Speaker 1: Holmes come What's that called again? Homes? The Man's busy
Speaker 1: and he needs to take a more partnership. Movies coming
Speaker 1: out like the JOHNS. Riley. Thanks for doing the show
Speaker 1: Man really appreciate. Thank you,