1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercam. I'm a mother of four, 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:08,479 Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hart Hunger. 3 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:11,799 Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, practicing physician and blogger. On 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: the side, we are two working parents who love our 5 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. 6 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 7 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping 8 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get 9 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. 10 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode eighty four. Today we'll 11 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: be talking about a project that's very dear to me, 12 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 1: a little book called Juliette's School of Possibilities, which is 13 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,840 Speaker 1: launching today March twelfth, if you're listening to this episode 14 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:51,919 Speaker 1: when it first airs. So yeah, this book has been 15 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: in the works for quite a while, which you're just 16 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: Sarah and I were talking about this earlier that I 17 00:00:57,680 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: gave her an advanced copy, but the advanced copy came 18 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: out long time ago, so it's been a while, right, 19 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: it has been. And I also feel like you were 20 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,680 Speaker 1: talking about the concept of it for like forever, although 21 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: I think it turned into something different from what you 22 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: initially envisioned. Yeah, no, it was. I had actually, well 23 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: it's a long story. I had written a story that 24 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: was called something similar to Juliete School of Possibilities. Okay, 25 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: it was like something school for domestic arts or something, 26 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: and it was it was a National Novel Writing Month, 27 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,839 Speaker 1: novel many years ago that when you write fifty thousand 28 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 1: words during November. And so the way this all happened 29 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 1: is July twenty seventeen. There was a couple of days 30 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 1: there that was actually a big momentous for many reasons. 31 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 1: I mean, one is this this woman named Sarah hart 32 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: Unger posted on her blog that she was looking to 33 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: start a podcast and I read that and thought, hey, 34 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 1: I wonder if she'd be willing to do one with me, 35 00:01:57,560 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: And then here we are a year and a half. 36 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: It was like just meant to be. I know that. 37 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 1: I remember that email. I was like, oh really, yes, 38 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: it was so yeah that that happened in that few days. 39 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,920 Speaker 1: And then I also I was on a little writing retreat. 40 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: Actually I was up in the Poconos finishing the manuscript 41 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:19,799 Speaker 1: of Off the Clock, which was due. So that was 42 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: a book that came out last year, and then I 43 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: got an email from my editor on off the clock, 44 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: who said, you know, we are looking to commission a 45 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: fable that there's the genre of sort of business or 46 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: personal productivity books that is stories instead of just you know, 47 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 1: straightforward instruction, so novella's. There's a lot of them out there. Obviously, 48 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: the most famous is probably Who Moved My Cheese? And 49 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 1: I think what triggered this is that they knew they 50 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: were going to publish Spencer Johnson's follow on with that, 51 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: which is called Out of the Maze, which is the 52 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: Who Moved My Cheese follow up that just came out. 53 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:59,399 Speaker 1: But anyway, they were looking to commission others, and so 54 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 1: they asked if I was, you know interested. I had 55 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 1: ideas and said, yeah, sure, I mean I like writing fiction. 56 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,639 Speaker 1: I've been doing that Nino Remo stuff for years. And 57 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,079 Speaker 1: so over the next few weeks I kind of realized, hey, 58 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: I could actually create a time management fable out of 59 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 1: the basic material that had been this national novel writing 60 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: months piece. I had to, you know, really do a 61 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: lot of extracting and rewriting, and you know, I basically 62 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,839 Speaker 1: just kept three characters in a setting, but everything else 63 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: was different, but yeah, that's that's how it came together. Yeah. 64 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 1: I mean, you do seem like the perfect person to 65 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: write this because you have the time management, interest and 66 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: the nonfiction experience. But you had been experimenting a lot 67 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: with novel writing, and you had even written a novel previously, 68 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: so it totally makes sense. Yeah. No, And I'd learned 69 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: a lot from writing that novel, The Courtland Boys, that 70 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: came out in twenty fourteen. And you know, I love fiction. 71 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: I love reading it and have for years, and so 72 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: it was fun to sort of try my hand aut in. 73 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: It's a very short book. I mean it's it's queer's 74 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: and it's so I got an advanced copy and I 75 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 1: totally enjoyed reading it. It was one of those books 76 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: where it was like, oh, I kind of wish it 77 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 1: was a little lot like I could have I could 78 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: have taken more of it, because I liked the characters, 79 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: and for a book that had a lesson to it, 80 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 1: it was it was it was like a page turner, 81 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: like I wanted to know what was going to happen, 82 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: and so it was actually really fun to read. So 83 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,160 Speaker 1: if you're looking for a book that does kind of 84 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: address some sort of basic time management principles, and as 85 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: we'll talk about, definitely delves into some more I don't know, 86 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: generational dilemmas that a lot of people run into our 87 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 1: challenges that we see working with people that have different 88 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 1: types of mindsets about time, which is something I've definitely experienced. 89 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 1: But written in a way that's just kind of like 90 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:51,919 Speaker 1: you feel like you're reading a novel. This is a 91 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: great book. You could definitely read it on like short 92 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 1: flight and feel like you've gotten something out of it. Yeah, 93 00:04:57,920 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 1: so we would. I would love it if you would 94 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 1: do that, So shout out if you have enjoyed listening 95 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 1: to this podcast. You know, I would really appreciate if 96 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: you would, yeah, pick up a copy. So just the 97 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 1: brief synopsis of it is that it's called Juliet School 98 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: of Possibilities and the main character is a young consultant 99 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 1: named Riley who works at mb And Company, which is 100 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: a major consulting firm. Who's I mean the name, it 101 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 1: could be any of them, it's not any of them. 102 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: It's maybe a mishmash of all the major consulting firms. 103 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: But anyway, she works at a place called mb And 104 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: Company and her life is falling apart on various dimensions. 105 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: She's always been a high flyer, but she gets a 106 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: terrible performance review and she can't figure out why because 107 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 1: she always is responding to everything instantly. She prides herself on, 108 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: you know, being available for her clients twenty four to seven. 109 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 1: But of course, in the process of being available for 110 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 1: her clients twenty four to seven, she's also done and 111 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: some you know, pretty not nice things and personal relationships 112 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: because of that, So her life is falling apart. She 113 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 1: knows she needs to turn her career around in thirty 114 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:13,279 Speaker 1: days or she's out. And she's on her way to 115 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: a leadership retreat at a place called Juliette School of Possibilities, 116 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:23,039 Speaker 1: which is this retreat run by a woman named Juliette. 117 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 1: It's on the Jersey Shore, and Juliette is this lifestyle Maven. 118 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: She's definitely got a little Martha's still little Martha Stewart, 119 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: maybe a lot a lot, who knows no, but I 120 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 1: liked it. It's like Martha's Stewart with an edge, Martha 121 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: Stewart with an edge. But you know, Riley shows up 122 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: and assumes that this woman will just drop by briefly 123 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: and go off and her acolytes will do everything, but 124 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 1: she's there and she gets to know her and finds 125 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 1: that she's this incredibly calm, generous person despite all she 126 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: has going on in her life. And so Riley's trying 127 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 1: to learn her secrets. And they go take a walk 128 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 1: on the beach in the middle of a storm, and 129 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: Juliette shows Riley two potential visions of her future based 130 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:06,719 Speaker 1: on different choices she makes about how she spends her time, 131 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: and so Riley has to choose which way she wants 132 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: to make life go. And that's that's what goes down 133 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: in the book. Yes, and it's a very Yeah, it's 134 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: just a fun, kind of fantastical journey that you get 135 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: to meet with Riley. Now, she's a very vivid character. 136 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 1: Like I feel like I know her or many people 137 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: like her. I wasn't always the biggest fan of her, 138 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: like I wanted to yell at her through the pages, 139 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: even though I knew her heart was in the right place. 140 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: Do you when you were writing her, did you find 141 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: she was more in line with a certain personality type 142 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: or generation. Well, it's interesting because I mean we've talked 143 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: a lot about the Gretchen Rubin four tendencies types, and 144 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 1: as an upholder, I am willing to say no to things, 145 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: like you know, that's just who I am. But I 146 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: do definitely know people who are more obliger types, who 147 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: can't say no to anything. And the more you know, 148 00:07:58,000 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: you talk that they always have something else they've agreed 149 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: to for someone, and you're like, in what way does 150 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 1: that fit in with your larger life goals. It's like, well, 151 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: it doesn't, but somebody asked, and so they just did it, 152 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: and they did. You say that you think she's an obliger. 153 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: I would say she's probably an obliger who's learning to 154 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: have some more upholding tendencies by the by the end 155 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: of because of course we think the upholders are right. 156 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: But uh, you know, it's it's it's not about that. 157 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: It's it's more that you have to recognize that your 158 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: larger life goals and and in fact, the service you 159 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: can do for the world isn't always achieved by saying 160 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 1: yes to everything, because you know, as there's this, you 161 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: know the phrase of that. Juliette explains to her that 162 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: expectations are infinite, time is finite, You are always choosing 163 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:44,439 Speaker 1: choose well, and so what Riley is doing is she's 164 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 1: choosing what is right in front of her, what is 165 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: I was blinking and making the loudest noise, but that's 166 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 1: not always the right thing to be focusing on. So 167 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 1: you know, she's she's learning to do that. She she 168 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 1: responds to all emails instantly. You know, she will you know, 169 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: take a conference call while she meeting with someone else 170 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: because the conference call was there, you know. And and 171 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: her poor personal life, so she forgets to go meet 172 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: up with her boyfriend, who is then very unhappy about that. 173 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: She kind of cancels lunch with a friend of hers, 174 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: but in the worst possible way. And so, yeah, life 175 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: is falling apart on various did you mentions? She is 176 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: disappointing everyone when she Do you think were you trying 177 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: to write a bit of a millennial character because she 178 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: comes off a little yeah, well she's young. I mean, 179 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: so if you think about this as being written in 180 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: say twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, and she's twenty nine, so yeah, 181 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 1: she's definitely millennial. I mean, I feel like you captured 182 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: that nicely, like it came through. But the thing is, 183 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 1: she's I mean she's a really hard working millennial, so 184 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: she's not at all the slacker thing. And you can 185 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,199 Speaker 1: the character she is. I mean, you want to hopefully, 186 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: you want to root for her because you see that 187 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: she's she's come into this white shoe consulting firm as 188 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 1: like a hard scrabble Indiana girl. She hasn't. She didn't 189 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: go to Harvard, she didn't go to Princeton, she didn't 190 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: go those places that all her colleagues has gone to. 191 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: She went on scholarship to Indiana University. She's just incredibly smart, 192 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: incredibly ambitious, determined, hard worker, and that served her very well. 193 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:29,959 Speaker 1: You know, got her hired at this great consulting firm. 194 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: It's moved her up the ranks quickly. But now she's 195 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: in management, and it turns out you can't just work harder. 196 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 1: You actually have to think about what you're doing and 197 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: whether you know you know the stuff that you're doing. 198 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:43,719 Speaker 1: It could fill all twenty four hours a day on 199 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: hundred sixty eight hours a week. You have to make choices, 200 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: and she doesn't really know how to do that. I 201 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: think part of it is also that, you know, the 202 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: times of this age, there's just so much task fragmentation. 203 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:57,559 Speaker 1: If you're not able to make those choices, then you're 204 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:00,319 Speaker 1: kind of like that's part of the part of the 205 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: key is making the choices to start with, what do 206 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: you feel I mean, when she is able to put 207 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: it all together, what do you feel like was the 208 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: key advice that got her? Yeah, so I think that 209 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: Juliette needs to impart sort of my time management advice 210 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: to her. And so that's what I have this mentor 211 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: figure of Juliet doing. And it's just so the phrase 212 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 1: that is all over the Juliet School of Possibilities is 213 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 1: as I said before, the expectations are infinite. Time is finite. 214 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: You are always choosing choose well, And so it's really 215 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 1: this question are you choosing well? Like a choice to 216 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,319 Speaker 1: do one thing is a choice not to do something else. 217 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: A choice to answer the client's email immediately is a 218 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: choice not to have open time to think. And when 219 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: you ponder it, you realize, well, the reason the client 220 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:54,359 Speaker 1: is emailing you is they think you have good ideas, 221 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: and if you don't have the space to think, you 222 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 1: don't have those ideas, which is why they're emailing you 223 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 1: in the first place. You need to hold yourself to 224 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: this bigger vision of what your value is to the 225 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: world and even to the people you are serving, versus 226 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 1: what you think. The immediate obligation is right in front 227 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: of you. And so Juliet tells her, you know, ask 228 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,079 Speaker 1: of every moment of everything you do, is this action, 229 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: Is this decision bringing me closer to the vision of 230 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: my life that I want? And so sort of practically 231 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 1: how people might think about this, You could take a 232 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: few minutes and think about yourself maybe ten, fifteen, twenty 233 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 1: years in the future. I mean, Riley's a millennial, she's 234 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: very young, so she's thinking like twenty five years in 235 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 1: the future. But those of us who aren't there, you 236 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,080 Speaker 1: know it can maybe think like five, ten years in 237 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: the future. You know, there's this vision of you professionally 238 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 1: and personally successful, but also calm about it, you know, 239 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:48,559 Speaker 1: like very fulfilled, happy about your life, Like what are 240 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: you doing? Like what does your life look like? And 241 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 1: then as you really truly picture this in starting to say, well, 242 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: what actions can I take in the present to bring 243 00:12:57,960 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: me to that? What things am I doing that move 244 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: me closer to that? What things am I doing that 245 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 1: do not move me close to that? And it's hard. 246 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 1: Juliette says this to Riley at one pot. She's like, 247 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 1: you know, it was hard to make this decision as 248 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 1: Juliette was building her business. It's even harder now that 249 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:14,679 Speaker 1: she's got this huge business with people come to her 250 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: with great ideas all the time, right, but you can't 251 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: take on all of them. So again you have to pause, 252 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: evaluate and think, well, is this a good way to 253 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: spend my time? Or maybe could somebody else take this on? 254 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,959 Speaker 1: And you know, so it's the email comes in there 255 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 1: a lot, just because that tends to that was Riley's 256 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 1: particular problem, but it could be anything if you were 257 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: Riley's coach, and you can imagine herself, and she really 258 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 1: did have I don't know, it seemed almost like she 259 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 1: was committed to more things than it's humanly possible to 260 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:46,319 Speaker 1: get done. So it actually not only did she need 261 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 1: to triaze, she actually probably needed to actively prune and 262 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: get rid of some things. Do you find I don't know, 263 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: what do you feel like is the best way to 264 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: do that? If someone is working for a company. And 265 00:13:57,960 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: this wasn't even the thought that I had while I 266 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: was reading, but I'm thinking of it now, like if 267 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:02,839 Speaker 1: someone's putting themselves in this position and they're like, well, 268 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:05,199 Speaker 1: I am getting you know, twenty emails an hour, and 269 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: I actually they want me to spend time thinking about 270 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: each one and the math doesn't add up there. How 271 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:11,439 Speaker 1: do you deal with that? Yeah, the math doesn't add 272 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 1: up at all. So because it doesn't add up that, 273 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 1: I think that's kind of liberating, because you can't do 274 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: everything so you have to which it's again a hard 275 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: thing to get your mind around that you are always 276 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 1: disappointing someone. So it's just the question of are you 277 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: disappointing the right person on the right thing? Are you 278 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: meeting a bigger expectation by disappointing the obvious one? So 279 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: in Riley's case, I mean, she's not delegating at all, 280 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: even though she's inn management, like she has this control 281 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: issue about responding to anything. But you know, she has 282 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: an assistant she doesn't use for that sort of thing. 283 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 1: I think probably because again, she's been the star all 284 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 1: her life and it's hard to think, oh, she's been 285 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 1: in charge of all the details. Yeah, and to say, oh, well, 286 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 1: I have to let go of that. Somebody else can 287 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: work out some of the details while I focus on 288 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: the thing that is most important for me to do, 289 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: which is you know, difficult. I think she also was 290 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 1: running herself ragged that there's a certain we have to 291 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: pay attention to our energy levels, and this is so 292 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: hard to do. Again when you've got a million things 293 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: on your plate, it's so easy just to say, Okay, 294 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: I'll just work harder. I just need to work longer. 295 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 1: I just need to keep going. And I do this too, 296 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: I mean, whenever I have open time, I work right 297 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: like I mean. This is but you can't constantly do 298 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: that without losing the sort of open space and the 299 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: mind and the you know, letting your mind run a 300 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: little bit that allows you to come up with the 301 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: good ideas. So someone like Riley probably needs to think 302 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 1: about building in a certain amount of time for sleep, 303 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 1: building in time for exercise, building in time to have 304 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: real conversations with people where you're not checking your devices 305 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 1: or racing off to the next thing. And that was 306 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 1: one thing her mentor did so well. You know, Juliet 307 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: and her interactions with people are priceless. And I feel 308 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: like I do know people like that, and you know 309 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 1: what they typically do tend to be very successful. I 310 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: can think to myself of a couple of you know, 311 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: the pediatric ic is very intense place, and it's not 312 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: always my favorite place, but there's, like back in my training, 313 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: there's seem to be two flavors of physicians who worked there. 314 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: It was like ones who were chronically flustered and panicky 315 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 1: and ones who just had the exact same challenges but 316 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: acted like Juliette, Oh, hi, you know, they're talking to 317 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: this nurse, how is this patient doing? Like, you know, 318 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: everything was calm and yet probably, if anything, even better 319 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: outcomes and so much more pleasant to work with. So 320 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: it is kind of magic in that way now, because 321 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: I mean, it turns out, yes, we have lots of 322 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: challenges and emergencies and things like that, but very few 323 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: of those are solved by panicking and running yourself ragged 324 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 1: and so maintaining that calm demeanor and sort of always 325 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: saying I have the space to choose how I'm going 326 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: to react to this, and focusing on people as well, 327 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: because that was one of the things that Juliette had 328 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: chosen as a good use of her time, saying, well, 329 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 1: I could answer these ten emails from people who are 330 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: sort of tangential to my life or I could focus 331 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 1: on making sure that the assistant who is saving my 332 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: life regularly is very happy. And what would be a 333 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:25,640 Speaker 1: better choice for me to do well, probably making sure 334 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,120 Speaker 1: that person is very happy and stays with you and 335 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,400 Speaker 1: keeps doing the miracles that she does on your behalf 336 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: all the time, and all the people who work closely 337 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 1: with her. She was very focused on the people who 338 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 1: she knew she needed to make the wonderful things in 339 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: her life happen, and less so on the things outside. 340 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,680 Speaker 1: And Riley had less ability to do that. She had 341 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: to learn learn how to do that. She had to learn. 342 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,959 Speaker 1: I mean, Juliette was treating her staff like humans, and 343 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: Riley I feel like, at least initially was treating them 344 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: like checkboxes, you know, and she wasn't very happy doing 345 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: so until she out. Yeah, so it was fun to write. 346 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:06,440 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's been out for what I mean, 347 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 1: I wrote it a long time ago. Now, it was 348 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: like a year ago when I wrote the manuscript, and 349 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:12,719 Speaker 1: so it's just been in the hopper and since then 350 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: because off the clock had to come out and then 351 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,920 Speaker 1: be enough space between that and now. But really interested 352 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,880 Speaker 1: to see how this will, you know, how life will 353 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: my career may go you know, more in this direction, 354 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: or it's always the question of how you can Yeah, 355 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:31,400 Speaker 1: it's a question of how you can have the sort 356 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: of area that you write about and talk about stay fresh. 357 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:37,639 Speaker 1: And it's something I definitely keep trying to think about. 358 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 1: How can I present my material in ways that people 359 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 1: will want to continue reading? Because you know, I'm so 360 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 1: how about Netflix series? Yes, exactly. Well, you know it's 361 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: always an issue of like, actually, I'm not even kidding. 362 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 1: This could be a good show, you know, cleaning up 363 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 1: your calendars with Laura Vandercamp and it'd be like Marie Kondo, 364 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:03,920 Speaker 1: but with time. I think that'd be awesome. I would 365 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,640 Speaker 1: watch that one hundred percent. Maybe. Well, and the question 366 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,919 Speaker 1: is how do you make something that is this uh time? 367 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 1: And oh easily easily because I can show like I 368 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 1: can show you throwing something in a trash can I 369 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 1: don't know if I can show you that part's less 370 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:22,399 Speaker 1: visual and you could show the planner, or you could 371 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,199 Speaker 1: show their calendar, you could show snippets. There would be 372 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 1: ways of doing it. Yeah, wow, we are totally off back. 373 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 1: That was just the idea that I had. Well, I 374 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 1: think it'd be awesome. I mean I was listening and 375 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:34,120 Speaker 1: wants to reach out about that. Yeah, you never know. Well, 376 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 1: and we forgot my question about technology and always on 377 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 1: availability because I felt like the book actually had a 378 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 1: great nod to that, the fact that it was her 379 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: phone that was emailing and her phone was getting texted, 380 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: and you know, this book probably couldn't have been it 381 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,160 Speaker 1: could have been written. I guess she could have been 382 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:49,639 Speaker 1: getting memos, but it would have been hard to write 383 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 1: thirty years ago because on the weekends, how would she 384 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 1: have gotten pained all day? Right? So I guess, did 385 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:57,439 Speaker 1: you Is there a subtle message in the book for 386 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: bosses or leadership to kind of not expect that always 387 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: on quality from their employees. Well, I think there definitely is. 388 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,919 Speaker 1: And Juliette is running her business, which is a very 389 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: successful business, without demanding twenty four to seven availability from 390 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: her employees or you know, making them unhappy in any way. 391 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 1: The thing though, with Riley, I mean, so certainly there's 392 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 1: something to be said for and Riley is in management 393 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 1: and one of the things she's learning is that she's 394 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: not you know, she needs to be more focused and 395 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: how she deploys her team's time that her team's time 396 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 1: is a very valuable resource, and she's just been saying 397 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: do everything. But that's not what a real leader does. 398 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: A real leader says, this is the important thing for 399 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:40,159 Speaker 1: you to spend your time at. This is where I 400 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: want you to go. I've got great people who will 401 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 1: execute on that. But I need to make that decision 402 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: and be clear on that, and that's what people can 403 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: then follow and do. But here's the thing. Work will 404 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: take anything you give it. I mean, it's not really 405 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: fair to We can say, yes, work needs to change 406 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 1: and managers should be better about this, but it's the 407 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:04,679 Speaker 1: nature of the beast that work will be willing to 408 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 1: take anything you give. It's up to us to say, 409 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:13,480 Speaker 1: I'm not going to give everything, because if I give everything, 410 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: I will not be the person that you actually want 411 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 1: to employ. I will not have the ability to solve 412 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,639 Speaker 1: these problems. I will not have the creative ideas. I 413 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,199 Speaker 1: will not be the sort of patient person who can 414 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,439 Speaker 1: mentor younger people if I don't have the space to 415 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 1: renew my energy as well. So you know, there is 416 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 1: a part in I know I've mentioned this on the 417 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 1: podcast before, but for our listeners who've read Lean and 418 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:42,679 Speaker 1: Cheryl Sandberg's book, she worked at Mackenzie, which is a 419 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 1: management consulting firm, which is not in being company where 420 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 1: Riley works, but there are probably some similarities. And Cheryl 421 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 1: Sandberg back when she worked for Mackenzie, had a manager 422 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 1: who told her at one point, well, people leave because 423 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,919 Speaker 1: they're burned out all the time. But the thing I 424 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: don't understand that everyone who leaves has untaken vacation days. 425 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: And his point was that you know, McKenzie would take 426 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: anything you'd give. It was up to you to say, 427 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 1: I need some space, I need to recoup and then 428 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: I can come back and do this project. And so 429 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 1: maybe if these people had taken their vacations or said, actually, 430 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: you know, I need to be out to you know, 431 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 1: Friday at five pm, I'm going to be done, and 432 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 1: you know that's it's just not going to happen. I 433 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: will get back to you midday Saturday, but I need 434 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,919 Speaker 1: to at least decompress some You know, you can do that. 435 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 1: You take a risk, but you can do that. And 436 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 1: so his point was that you needed to push back, 437 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 1: and I think that that's something that we all need 438 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: to recognize as well. That's awesome, So is this other 439 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: than your Netflix series, and I was kidding about that, 440 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: But what do you do you think you're going to 441 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,120 Speaker 1: be writing more books like this? Maybe, I mean, we'll 442 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:55,159 Speaker 1: see how this does. If people are interested in this 443 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: sort of thing, then I'm sure I could write more. 444 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess you know, the market tells you 445 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:04,160 Speaker 1: how people want their time management advice, and certainly we've 446 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,479 Speaker 1: found that people like thinking about productivity. Hearing about it 447 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 1: is one of the reasons we do this product this podcast, 448 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 1: that we focus on how people can live better lives 449 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 1: through this. I definitely like the written word, but I 450 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:17,679 Speaker 1: think there's all sorts of ways one can do the 451 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: written word fiction, nonfiction, so you know, I like to 452 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 1: keep it fresh and hopefully this will you know, maybe 453 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: it was fun to write, so maybe I'll just do 454 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:33,120 Speaker 1: more fiction just for fun as well. Awesome. Yeah, all right, Well, 455 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,399 Speaker 1: I hope everybody checks it out who's listening here, either 456 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,360 Speaker 1: on their device or the library or buying it one 457 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 1: way or the other, and you can let us know 458 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,719 Speaker 1: what you think. Yeah, all right, thanks, and now we 459 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 1: can go to our listener question. Yes it's long, but 460 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: I will summarize because I like your answer. You let 461 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,159 Speaker 1: you go first. Okay, I have a career transition coming up, 462 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 1: and I love your advice. I'm transitioning from part time 463 00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: self employment to a full time corporate job. I'm married 464 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 1: and have two two daughters, eight and four. I left 465 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 1: my work. I left my job as a workplace strategy 466 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 1: consultant about two and a half years ago to open 467 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 1: up a professional organizing business. I decided it self employment. 468 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: It's too lonely and I want to go back to 469 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: an office with coworkers. I've interviewed several places and think 470 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:17,119 Speaker 1: I'll be back at work within the next two to 471 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 1: four weeks. But how do I decide which job to take? 472 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,640 Speaker 1: Option one? My previous job has offered me a job 473 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 1: basically starting where I left off, same salary, giving me 474 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 1: the twenty days of vacation I left with, and same 475 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 1: title and same jobs and clients. I know what I'm getting. 476 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:32,439 Speaker 1: It was a great place and I was there for 477 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 1: almost eleven years. They're pretty flexible around working hours, working 478 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: from home one day a week, et cetera. I really 479 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 1: love my boss, et cetera. The downsize is there was 480 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:42,639 Speaker 1: a little bit more sales than I liked. I was 481 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,359 Speaker 1: getting a little bored and I was topped out. As 482 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 1: far as growth, she feels like there's many years and 483 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: retirements before she could possibly move up on the ladder. 484 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 1: She didn't feel like there's too much travel. It feels safe. 485 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 1: Option two is a larger firm. She knows one person 486 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: who used to work at her old firm very well well, 487 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: but doesn't know the company as well. It's larger, there's 488 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 1: more opportunity to grow and more opportunity to work on 489 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: different types of projects. They have two things she's really 490 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: interested in, and she feels like they're able to craft 491 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:13,639 Speaker 1: the job so she can do two sides of what 492 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,359 Speaker 1: she really loves. But our bosses will not be in 493 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 1: the same city. She feels like there's similar flexibility in 494 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: terms of working from home, and she doesn't have salary 495 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: benefits info yet, but she feels like it's likely to 496 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,640 Speaker 1: be about even There may be a bit more travel, 497 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,160 Speaker 1: she says. It feels like less of a safe bet, 498 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 1: but more opportunity to be challenged. I'm pretty risk averse, 499 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: but I don't want to play it safe, so I'm 500 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 1: leaning towards this option. Am I crazy? Well? Hopefully that 501 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: wasn't too long, but I know it's a good question. 502 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: Then I think, no, she is not crazy. And you know, 503 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: first of all, if you have actually two job offers 504 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: in hand, like life is good because you actually don't 505 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,120 Speaker 1: have to take either just as they are. The fact 506 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: that two people really want you is a good position 507 00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 1: to be in because you can go back and forth 508 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: between them to get one of them to be as 509 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: much as possible of the good parts of both. Right, 510 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 1: this is a negotiation situation. When you're coming into jump, 511 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: people actually expect you to negotiate. That's not like a 512 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 1: weird thing at all. So take this opportunity to say 513 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:16,719 Speaker 1: what both have on the table, and decide what you 514 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: like of each of them, and then go back to 515 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 1: each place and say, well, hey, you know, I'd love 516 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:22,920 Speaker 1: to work with you. I also have this other offer 517 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 1: on the table, and this thing was really important to 518 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: me that you had there. Could we maybe do this here? So, 519 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: I mean, if she likes the option, you know, the 520 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,160 Speaker 1: risky one as she put it, she could go back 521 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 1: to the safe place she has and ask for a 522 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,439 Speaker 1: lot more, you know, ask for more money than she 523 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:42,679 Speaker 1: left with, ask for more vacation days, maybe get a 524 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 1: specific timeline for moving up the ladder. You know, if 525 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 1: she thinks there's not opportunities for growth, does she know 526 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: that for sure? I mean maybe they could create something 527 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: new for her, or that she could craft something from that. 528 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,160 Speaker 1: So go back to option one and say, well, i'd 529 00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 1: like these things. You can also do that with option 530 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: two as well. Say you know, I got twenty days 531 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 1: of vacation at my old place, Like you're going to 532 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: have to match that they might do. So you say, 533 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:09,919 Speaker 1: I got to work from home one day a week 534 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 1: at my old place. I would like to have in 535 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,640 Speaker 1: writing that that's okay, all right, Maybe they'd be willing 536 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:15,879 Speaker 1: to do this, you know. To the point is, both 537 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: of these offers are going to be negotiable. So rather 538 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: than feelm is like do I choose one or two? 539 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 1: Say how can I go back to both one and 540 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: two and get the good parts of both and then 541 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,360 Speaker 1: I can decide which one is the best for me? Awesome? Yeah, 542 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 1: I felt the same way that the answer to was 543 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: she crazy? Is absolutely not. I also would like to 544 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 1: point out that anybody who left their corporate job to 545 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 1: start their own organizing business can't truly be that risk. 546 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 1: That's not how I would classify this person based on that. Yeah, 547 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,680 Speaker 1: and when I read it like it sounds like there's 548 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 1: a lot more excitement about option two, even though number 549 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 1: one is the comfortable one. You know, the travel was 550 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 1: the one thing that she felt like might be different, 551 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: but you know, with her kids getting older, it may 552 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 1: not be as much of a deal breaker. My tip 553 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,399 Speaker 1: is actually kind of what we mentioned earlier when we 554 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 1: were talk about Juliette, is kind of picture yourself in 555 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,439 Speaker 1: five years and where would you want to be. My 556 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 1: last thought was, you know, company number one still left 557 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 1: you after you left them one time, so you might 558 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: as well try too, because Company number one clearly likes 559 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 1: you so much they might still want you again, so 560 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,160 Speaker 1: they'd still be available as a safe option should number 561 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 1: two not work out as well as you thought it 562 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,679 Speaker 1: was going to. Yeah, that's true. She had also had 563 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 1: a second part of this question about, you know, what 564 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: should she do to prepare, But we didn't think like 565 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: you had to do too much. I mean, you know, 566 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 1: even though we are the sort of people who like 567 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: to dot every I and cross every T, you know, 568 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 1: it's not like she hasn't been working as this crazy 569 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: new world. I mean, she's been in the corporate world before, 570 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: like she she will go in again. I mean, it's 571 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 1: probably not that different in term of what she needs 572 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: to do to prepare childcare or anything like that. Yeah, 573 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: and plus again her kids, I mean, they're only going 574 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,239 Speaker 1: to get older, they're going to be in school. She 575 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 1: already has childcare and backup childcare, so anything else is 576 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: kind of she'll figure that out. She'll figure it out 577 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 1: as she goes, so I wouldn't overthink overthink that part. Yeah, 578 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: all right, Sarah, I love of the week you go first. 579 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 1: I might not have one yet. Yes, No, well, I 580 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: mean we've been talking about Juliette School of Possibilities. I 581 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: love that my publisher and I have this long relationship portfolio, 582 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: which is part of Penguin Random House. I've done. This 583 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: is our fifth book together, so that's kind of cool 584 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 1: that we've been you know, we come up with ideas 585 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: to gather at this point, which is really nice to 586 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 1: have that relationship and that they they've stuck with me. 587 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 1: So I've been happy about that. Oh well, I guess 588 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: on that note, I don't have a publisher at this 589 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,959 Speaker 1: particular moment, but the woman Amanda who did my blog 590 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 1: and you can find her credentials on my website the 591 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 1: shoebox dot comments at the bottom, and she could be 592 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 1: found at oh Amanda. She did the redo. She's been 593 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 1: super responsive. It's almost done, so yeah, she deserves a 594 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 1: Love of the Week. She did a great job, so wonderful. Well, 595 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: this has been best of both worlds. We've been mostly 596 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 1: talking about Julia at School of Possibilities, which is my 597 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: new time management fable. We will be back next week 598 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: with more on making work and life fit together. Thanks 599 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 1: for listening. You can find me Sarah at the shoebox 600 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:17,719 Speaker 1: dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and 601 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: you can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. 602 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: This has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please 603 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: join us next time for more on making work and 604 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: life work together.