Speaker 1: This crowd rises to its being what Carl slam it?
Speaker 1: Oh car left wing ball perfect? They have blocked the
Speaker 1: shot at the rim, how with the left hand and
Speaker 1: of fowl.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Chasetown Podcast, part of the Caves Media family.
Speaker 3: I'm your host Justin Rohan.
Speaker 2: The Chase Down is presented by Fubo, the official streaming
Speaker 2: partner of the Calves. Watch over three hundred and fifty
Speaker 2: channels of live sports and TV, including fan Duel Sports
Speaker 2: Network without cable. There's no cost and no commitment. Try
Speaker 2: for free at FuboTV dot com Slash Calves. The Cleveland
Speaker 2: Cavaliers ended the road trip with a w in Portland,
Speaker 2: No Donovan Mitchell, no problem, and no overtime. Last time
Speaker 2: the Cavs played the Blazers, overtime was necessary. This time
Speaker 2: they closed them out in the fourth quarter. Big performances
Speaker 2: from Darius Garland, Evan Mobley looking like defensive player of
Speaker 2: the year, Jared Allen having a strong fourth quarter, and
Speaker 2: someone who always brings as best as my co host,
Speaker 2: Carter Rodriguez.
Speaker 3: Carter, how you doing, buddy?
Speaker 1: I don't know about that. You know, don't all that
Speaker 1: you know? I yeah, I'm doing good. It was nice
Speaker 1: to see the Calves win. And I'm going to take
Speaker 1: it at a weird angle to start. We didn't talk
Speaker 1: about this at all yet, we haven't talked about this
Speaker 1: game almost at all, even even privately. And I my
Speaker 1: weird angle here is I think it's good that the
Speaker 1: Calves only took twenty seven threes. Okay, uh, not because
Speaker 1: I'm someone who's you know, in perpetual freak out mode
Speaker 1: about you know, the state of the three point game
Speaker 1: and being two relying on threes. But I do think
Speaker 1: it was nice that the team collectively said, hey, like,
Speaker 1: we haven't been hitting at a crazy high rate. Let's
Speaker 1: get to the paint. We've got we've got We've got
Speaker 1: a team that that plays a lot of pressure on
Speaker 1: the ball. But if we get past them, you know,
Speaker 1: we're going to be, you know, facing a deep dropping
Speaker 1: Donovan Klinging for the most part, or a not crazy
Speaker 1: mobile do op wreath for our forty eight minutes of action.
Speaker 1: And we're fine with that. We're fine. We can get
Speaker 1: into the teeth of this defense. We can we can
Speaker 1: get consistent buckets and we don't need to get up
Speaker 1: forty three pointers to have a good offensive rating, and like,
Speaker 1: I don't think it's like the be all end all,
Speaker 1: but I do think it's a nice reminder for them, like, no,
Speaker 1: you can have a dominant game without needing to shoot
Speaker 1: the cover off the ball. And they did shoot very
Speaker 1: well in their limited attempts. Part of me is like, well,
Speaker 1: that's kind of also part of it, right, like that,
Speaker 1: you know, you you really took mostly the ones that
Speaker 1: were really, really clean and the ones that really were
Speaker 1: in great rhythm that you just couldn't turn down. And
Speaker 1: I don't feel like they either, they even turned down
Speaker 1: a tremendous amount of threes either. I think they I
Speaker 1: just I really liked their offensive game plan in this one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not often that you see a team takes
Speaker 2: twenty five threes more than the Cavs do in a game.
Speaker 2: Like for the Calves to put up twenty seven and
Speaker 2: for the Blazers to put up fifty two.
Speaker 3: That's remarkable.
Speaker 2: And there were stretches where it felt like, man, the
Speaker 2: Blazers are just so hot. When Mattis Thaibeley is hitting
Speaker 2: a career high in three pointers made, you're like, is
Speaker 2: this another one of those bad kind of shooting variant games?
Speaker 2: That the Calves just can't seem to find any luck
Speaker 2: on this trip. But what ended up happening was they
Speaker 2: didn't actually hit that many of them. They just happened
Speaker 2: to have taken fifty two. So you notice the ones
Speaker 2: that they made, and I was a little surprised that
Speaker 2: they were able to get into the interior at will,
Speaker 2: particularly with no Donovan Mitchell. You expected a heavy dose
Speaker 2: of Kamara on Darius, which you got, and Kamara is honestly,
Speaker 2: when you look at what he's done over the season,
Speaker 2: he's got an all defensive case like he is that
Speaker 2: level of defender, even if he doesn't get recognized from
Speaker 2: it for it because they're not a playoff team, I
Speaker 2: do think that he is that level of a defender.
Speaker 2: So for Darius to go up against a very long,
Speaker 2: terrific point of attack defender, someone we've seen give him
Speaker 2: trouble at times as well. If you think back to
Speaker 2: that first game against Portland, for him to navigate and
Speaker 2: basically have the freedom of movement that he did, I
Speaker 2: thought it was really impressive.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It also makes me think back to our conversation on
Speaker 2: the last podcast where we're saying, how would.
Speaker 3: We like to see them win.
Speaker 2: When you're looking at this stretch where they continue to have,
Speaker 2: you know, so much travel, not a lot of rest,
Speaker 2: you can tell it's having an effect on these guys.
Speaker 2: And for them to have a not great defensive first quarter,
Speaker 2: start to crank up the effort on that end of
Speaker 2: the floor as the game progressed, but continue to hunt
Speaker 2: for good shots, not settle for the three pointers as
Speaker 2: they had at times throughout this road trip. I just
Speaker 2: really I felt that their process was so much healthier,
Speaker 2: and I came away from that game feeling really good
Speaker 2: about their effort.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I will acknowledge it's easy to feel good
Speaker 1: about the process when they shoot forty four percent from three. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, if they had an eight of twenty seven
Speaker 1: night and this is a much closer game or a loss,
Speaker 1: then you know, maybe me and you were like, go,
Speaker 1: the offense is in trouble. You know, those those four
Speaker 1: to three extra threees can be the difference between those
Speaker 1: two reactions. But to your point, I just felt like
Speaker 1: they were back to getting you know, I think what
Speaker 1: the hallmark of the beginning of the season for me
Speaker 1: and what really the vast majority of the season till
Speaker 1: March and maybe a little bit, with the exception of January,
Speaker 1: which was their other cold shooting month, which no surprise,
Speaker 1: was their other worst month of the year from a
Speaker 1: win loss record perspective. But the hallmark of the season
Speaker 1: is that I felt like they've gotten to whatever look
Speaker 1: they've wanted hmmm, and they have dictated the terms of
Speaker 1: the game offensively. I think that's one of the reasons
Speaker 1: that when they've played Boston I have gotten grumpy with
Speaker 1: their starts, is because I felt like they've not done that,
Speaker 1: you know, in some of those matchups. And I do
Speaker 1: feel like at some point in this march, with everyone
Speaker 1: pressing and you know, the three guards that you know,
Speaker 1: the three lead ball handlers on the team all in
Speaker 1: you know, mired in pretty rough shooting slumps. It just
Speaker 1: felt like the rhythm was gone, the imposition of the
Speaker 1: offense was wasn't there for them, And I do feel
Speaker 1: like they definitely brought that in this game. They had
Speaker 1: a real clarity of purpose. Each possession felt worthwhile to watch.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, it wasn't a perfect game by
Speaker 2: Miami stretch. I thought Jared really struggled the first few quarters.
Speaker 2: I was impressed with him in the fourth quarter. Like,
Speaker 2: I felt like he was a big, big part of
Speaker 2: those last seven minutes where I believe it was the
Speaker 2: last seven minutes that the Cavs did not allow a
Speaker 2: madefield goal. The only points Portland got it came out
Speaker 2: the free throw line. It was a very physical game.
Speaker 2: It seemed like the refs basically made a decision that hey,
Speaker 2: we're gonna let a lot go and we want to get.
Speaker 3: Out of here.
Speaker 2: We're letting you we're playing this game basically with a
Speaker 2: running clock.
Speaker 1: And think those boys had a red eye.
Speaker 2: No blood, no foul, like, you know, we were going
Speaker 2: to get out of here at an appropriate time.
Speaker 1: There was a stretch where there were four straight possessions
Speaker 1: on either side of the ball where a guy got
Speaker 1: absolutely decked in that fourth core. Yeah, it was, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, and I liked it. To be clear, I'm
Speaker 1: not being critical. I like a little physicality. I like
Speaker 1: a little rough play being allowed to go, especially like
Speaker 1: especially like if we're gonna be people who complain about
Speaker 1: the grifters getting rewarded, we definitely have got to be
Speaker 1: okay with, you know, a little roughness getting a getting
Speaker 1: getting let go.
Speaker 3: Honestly, it's my preferred style, Like, I think it was.
Speaker 1: Definitely notable that they wanted it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, I I think the ideal spot
Speaker 2: is a well officiated FEBA game. I think sometimes we
Speaker 2: get a little too uh, you know, caught up with
Speaker 2: glorifying FEBA officiating when sometimes it's just, hey, these refs
Speaker 2: aren't as good and they're like missing a lot of things.
Speaker 2: A well officiated FEBA game where you're allowing physicality. What
Speaker 2: I like about it is it just clarifies what a
Speaker 2: foul actually is. When you're allowing a higher baseline of foul,
Speaker 2: there's no longer that interpretation of Okay, well, why does
Speaker 2: he get a little TICKI tac call while you know
Speaker 2: this guy's drawing blood. You don't have that. And I
Speaker 2: liked how it was officiated. Again, I thought Darius was
Speaker 2: a big, big part of setting the tone in this
Speaker 2: game and for it to be a very physical game
Speaker 2: against a team that's been playing very well defensively, that's
Speaker 2: had some impressive wins over this stretch. As trying to
Speaker 2: rally around this end to the season and kind of
Speaker 2: solidify on identity as a team that they can build
Speaker 2: off of in the future. I thought it was a
Speaker 2: quality win, particularly the last game of a long road
Speaker 2: trip that's a tough one to get with no Donovan Mitchell,
Speaker 2: I thought Darius at the tone, it was great to
Speaker 2: see the floater going in at the rate that it did.
Speaker 2: The way that he was able to leverage that in
Speaker 2: between game and the floater to create opportunities at the rim,
Speaker 2: I thought was great. Really making Donovan Klingon commit and
Speaker 2: make decisions in space and then punishing those decisions. I
Speaker 2: thought he did a terrific job of that. And then
Speaker 2: of course when Darius is creating those types of opportunities,
Speaker 2: that just opens up things for everybody else and you
Speaker 2: see the great big to big passing, you see, you know,
Speaker 2: the secondary play making from guys like Max Strus, Sam
Speaker 2: merril Ty Jerome all come into play, and I just
Speaker 2: felt it was a very very healthy game from the Cavs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean to the Darius point, you wondered at
Speaker 1: the beginning in the first you know, he has a
Speaker 1: bunch of turnovers in that first quarter, in in that
Speaker 1: first half, and you're like, uh, oh, you know, is
Speaker 1: this gonna be one of those sloppy games where they're
Speaker 1: just not sharp. But like I do feel like you
Speaker 1: really did, like button it up obviously took over the
Speaker 1: game down the stretch. The floater being back is really
Speaker 1: really important and so much with Darius. I do feel
Speaker 1: like it's getting to the right spot for the floater.
Speaker 1: You know, he tried that fifteen footer with like four
Speaker 1: or five minutes left. It's like, brother, that's a really
Speaker 1: hard shot. Like like that's like I get it. I
Speaker 1: get that he's comfortable taking it, but like that's like
Speaker 1: probably a thirty percent type of floater, whereas a lot
Speaker 1: of the floaters he was hitting, he was using that
Speaker 1: misdirection he was using clinging in the deep drop and
Speaker 1: making him commit before he went up, or confusing and
Speaker 1: freezing him in his shoes and just getting what basically
Speaker 1: was an open layup like no one was on the floor,
Speaker 1: you know. And I feel like, you know, I always
Speaker 1: felt like Darius is a Steph Curry type of finisher,
Speaker 1: where it's the leveraging of the panic elsewhere that he
Speaker 1: does so good at at his best that gets his
Speaker 1: percentages up at the rim at you know, up to
Speaker 1: where they've been this year. I don't think he's a
Speaker 1: Kyrie type of finisher, and you know, he and he's
Speaker 1: certainly not one of these big, strong physical guards who
Speaker 1: can create angles using his body. A lot of it
Speaker 1: is using that freeze game, using the psychological game, using
Speaker 1: the fear of the pull up and the jumper to
Speaker 1: give himself a big ass runway on the way to
Speaker 1: the hoop. And I felt like he did a very
Speaker 1: very good job of manipulating Portland's defense in this one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I continue to like seeing him, you know,
Speaker 2: attack the glass, get a bunch of rebounds, you know,
Speaker 2: five rebounds in this game. I think he had eight
Speaker 2: against Utah. Chipping in in those different ways, it's nice
Speaker 2: to see.
Speaker 3: I think it's a.
Speaker 2: Good sign of his overall health that, hey, he's getting
Speaker 2: to his spots, he's getting into the paint, he's contributing
Speaker 2: on the glass, he's getting steels. All of that kind
Speaker 2: of stuff just goes to show, hey, he's in a
Speaker 2: pretty good spot physically right now, and the worst of
Speaker 2: the slump seems to be behind us. You look at
Speaker 2: you look at the last five games that he's played.
Speaker 2: He's shooting forty seven percent from the field, thirty three
Speaker 2: percent from three. So maybe that's you know, the one
Speaker 2: area that you kind of look at, but that thirty
Speaker 2: three percent is more of like a regular ebbs and
Speaker 2: flows of three point shooting rather than, Hey, why is
Speaker 2: Darius's percentages like thirty five percent from the field, twenty
Speaker 2: percent from three like the kind of horror ific splits there,
Speaker 2: and hey, ninety one percent from the free throw line too,
Speaker 2: So even that's bouncing back. I feel very good about
Speaker 2: the way that he's playing, and it's nice to see
Speaker 2: him bounce back. I continue to keep an eye on Jared.
Speaker 2: He looks tired out there. It was nice to see
Speaker 2: him dig deep and have a good fourth quarter. I'm
Speaker 2: encouraged by the fact that it seems like the last
Speaker 2: couple of games he's been playing without the hand wrap,
Speaker 2: so obviously that has kind of progressed. I don't think
Speaker 2: he'd be playing without it if it hasn't progressed, So
Speaker 2: that's a good sign. But I know he's got the
Speaker 2: goal of playing eighty two games. But I'm also I
Speaker 2: guess I'm hopeful that, Hey, if that's going to be
Speaker 2: your goal to play eighty two games, it'd be nice
Speaker 2: if we could put some games away so you don't
Speaker 2: have to play fourth quarters and get yourself some rest here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and in fairness, he really played twenty
Speaker 1: eight minutes in this game, and Evan being there is
Speaker 1: very very helpful for that. He's out against the Spurs
Speaker 1: for a rest game, so, you know, no rest for
Speaker 1: the weary for mister Allen. I think jareded like, I
Speaker 1: don't know if it's a physical tired or a mental
Speaker 1: tired from him, because you know, a couple of the
Speaker 1: mental mistakes have been pretty jarring too. You know, some
Speaker 1: really audacious passes that like have no shot, you know,
Speaker 1: throwing it right to the opposition because he just doesn't
Speaker 1: see him. I just I think he'd probably tell you
Speaker 1: he's not playing his best ball the season, like he's
Speaker 1: in a bit of a survival stretch for lack of
Speaker 1: a better word. I still feel like the finishing is
Speaker 1: pretty good, and you know, when he's catching the ball
Speaker 1: in the move. I do think it's a lot of
Speaker 1: the soft stuff that isn't great for him right now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, it's the being a step late, It's trying
Speaker 1: to fight for a rebound but already being dug out
Speaker 1: of position before you get there. I mean, boy, was
Speaker 1: he wrestling some bears on this West Coast trip, though
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not sure you have much of a
Speaker 1: tougher stretch than uh physically. Then Orlando up and down
Speaker 1: the roster, then Zooboch Valanchunis.
Speaker 2: And then Klingon, who might be the largest human in
Speaker 2: the NBA, Like I know, Wemby's taller, but Klingon is
Speaker 2: like seven three and five hundred pounds that many.
Speaker 1: If he had like great touch, he'd be unstoppable, but
Speaker 1: hopefully he doesn't. Phoenix is your one respite, and then
Speaker 1: you Walker Kestler and the Donovan Klingon like that is
Speaker 1: just like five out of six just Mondo dudes that
Speaker 1: you got to wrestle with, and even in the game
Speaker 1: before that is Zach Edie, who's a big guy, not
Speaker 1: quite as physically imposing, I feel as as the other
Speaker 1: guys in terms of like the fight that you have
Speaker 1: to have and you go up against him, but like so,
Speaker 1: you know, I definitely think you're seeing that wear on
Speaker 1: him a little bit, and you know, part of that's
Speaker 1: just his job. In fairness, don't want to pretend like
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna like I can already hear skeptics being like,
Speaker 1: oh boohoo, the sinner has to guard other sinners who
Speaker 1: are famously big and strong. Like, I get it, but
Speaker 1: like it is quite the run of tough dudes that
Speaker 1: are like kind of not Jarret's preferred dudes to play
Speaker 1: against in the first place. Yeah, you know, I think
Speaker 1: we can acknowledge that, like he'd much rather play another, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, a different archetype of player than these than
Speaker 1: these you who just beat him up for forty eight minutes.
Speaker 1: And I thought his battle was fine. Uh and uh
Speaker 1: I do I do like that he answered in the
Speaker 1: fourth quarter with a really really strong fourth quarter and
Speaker 1: uh at this point, you know, only time will tell
Speaker 1: on the playing all of these two. I think you know,
Speaker 1: most you know, most folks that we talked to, you know,
Speaker 1: it seems like most of us are like, it'd be
Speaker 1: okay if you said yeah, but but you know, I
Speaker 1: also get why you would set that goal for yourself,
Speaker 1: and like, if you're this close and you're and you're
Speaker 1: healthy and you know, I mean, the real question is
Speaker 1: if he takes one game off, is he going to
Speaker 1: be meaningfully better rested for the postseason when he's not hurt.
Speaker 1: Like that's where like me wanting him to rest like
Speaker 1: and then actually thinking through like the positive implications of it.
Speaker 1: It feels pretty flimsy to ask him to give up
Speaker 1: on this goal just so I could be like, well,
Speaker 1: at least you got a Wednesday off in late March. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's gonna matter.
Speaker 2: It reminds me of, you know, the Darius conversation when
Speaker 2: he was in you know, the bottom of the slump here,
Speaker 2: where we're like, if he's fine physically, it's basically just
Speaker 2: us feeling better and feeling like we have some control
Speaker 2: over the situation where it's get him a day off,
Speaker 2: where you know, having a day off in a back
Speaker 2: to back or something like that, it's it's not giving
Speaker 2: you a whole lot more rest than you have normally.
Speaker 1: So I think if he and if you were nursing
Speaker 1: soft tissue injury like a hammy or something like that,
Speaker 1: this conversation is very different, right, but like all intents
Speaker 1: and purposes, doesn't seem like he's hurt.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think some of this ties into what
Speaker 2: we talked about before, which is that when things don't
Speaker 2: go well, we lean back on our priors. Like I've
Speaker 2: seen a lot of people freaking out about giving up
Speaker 2: offensive rebounds in playing against these big, physical, you know centers,
Speaker 2: and it just brings back unpleasant memories some Nicks PTSD there.
Speaker 2: The funny thing is, you know, people will say, well,
Speaker 2: we need to go get ourselves a seven to four
Speaker 2: giant to come in off the bench and deal with that.
Speaker 2: Most of the time when we are playing a Donovan
Speaker 2: Klingen or a Walker Kestler or Jonas Valentunis, like, we
Speaker 2: won the Jonas minutes by seventeen, we won the Kessler
Speaker 2: minutes by forty, we won the Klingon minutes. We won
Speaker 2: the minutes against Zubac, even though we got blown out
Speaker 2: in that game, we won those minutes. But because it
Speaker 2: ties into you know, how that Knick series felt, it
Speaker 2: gives people the easiest scapegoat. We can just say, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, like they got an offensive rebound here and
Speaker 2: a putback and that's why we lost. Where in reality,
Speaker 2: a lot of those kind of plotting bigs that play
Speaker 2: a style that they just want to go right through,
Speaker 2: you know what, they aren't great at defending in space,
Speaker 2: and usually when you're playing the Calves, even when the
Speaker 2: Calves aren't playing their best offensively, that's something that we
Speaker 2: can exploit at a level much higher than they can
Speaker 2: exploit on the offensive glass Darius Cooking, Donovan Klingen or
Speaker 2: Walker Kessler in space. That is a trade off I'm
Speaker 2: willing to make. That's why we won the Yonus minutes
Speaker 2: by seventeen. That's why we swept the Raptors every single
Speaker 2: time we played in them, because we're like, well, guess
Speaker 2: what we're going to do. We're going to make Yonas
Speaker 2: Valentunas defend in space. The formula was the exact damn same.
Speaker 2: So I understand why it's frustrating, And I think I
Speaker 2: want to get into the whole rebounding thing a little
Speaker 2: bit later, because I do think there's some meat on
Speaker 2: that bone. I think there's things worth discussing. But I
Speaker 2: do find that too frequently Jarrett gets kind of put
Speaker 2: you know, he ends up being the whipping boy there,
Speaker 2: and too much of the blame gets assigned to him
Speaker 2: when it's a more kind of comprehensive issue and something
Speaker 2: that you know, the points of failure usually go beyond
Speaker 2: just the center position, like it was two years ago,
Speaker 2: you know, or was it two years ago?
Speaker 1: Yeah, two years ago. It is always more complicated I'm
Speaker 1: glad you want to talk about rebounding because I was
Speaker 1: pulling up some stets while you're talking about it. But
Speaker 1: we'll get there. We'll get there, brother man. I got
Speaker 1: to ask just in general. You know, we left that
Speaker 1: Utah game and we podcasted after, and I was kind
Speaker 1: of expecting like a more like a more positive podcast,
Speaker 1: to be honest, coming out of that Utah game, like, hey,
Speaker 1: we won, we got off the snod great news, and
Speaker 1: we were still pretty critical. Like, I don't think we
Speaker 1: felt like that Utah game represented as big of a
Speaker 1: shift in the team's play because maybe we wanted you know,
Speaker 1: I think. I mean, I'll speak for me. You can
Speaker 1: confirm or deny this. I felt like they played okay
Speaker 1: and beat up a team that is not trying to
Speaker 1: terribly hard to win games against Utah. Do you feel
Speaker 1: different about the Portland win than you felt about the
Speaker 1: Utah win?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 1: For sure.
Speaker 2: I to put it gently, I don't think Utah's goals
Speaker 2: are aligned with winning in a significant way. I do
Speaker 2: feel like Portland is still trying to get wins right.
Speaker 2: They're someone that has given challenging games and had big
Speaker 2: upset wins over very good teams. I think they're a
Speaker 2: team that's able to challenge the Cavs in ways that
Speaker 2: are important, like their ability to throw Kamara on Darius
Speaker 2: Garland in the matchup where there is no Donovan Mitchell
Speaker 2: to take some pressure off them.
Speaker 3: Seeing Darius do well in that.
Speaker 2: Matchup, that's an important data point, right, Like, that's one
Speaker 2: of those things where, yeah, we don't have a game
Speaker 2: against Boston or okay, see left on the schedule, but
Speaker 2: you can still get some information from some of these
Speaker 2: individual matchups. It may not be an entire team test,
Speaker 2: but individual members of the team are going to get tested.
Speaker 2: So to get this win, particularly with it being at
Speaker 2: the end of the road trip, I feel better about it,
Speaker 2: And you know, I think you're right, Like, I just
Speaker 2: feel like it would be a little dishonest if we
Speaker 2: came on here after the Utah win and we're like
Speaker 2: really like you know, houten and hollering and losing our
Speaker 2: minds over ending the losing streak, when like, we know
Speaker 2: that this team is very, very good, We know that
Speaker 2: they are capable of getting big regular season wins, and
Speaker 2: we know that they've elevated the standard for themselves. We
Speaker 2: were trying to kind of sift through this time of
Speaker 2: the season, which historically does not correlate with postseason success.
Speaker 2: How you kind of close out March and April well,
Speaker 2: usually like you want to finish on the right foot,
Speaker 2: and you feel better as a fan when you're finishing
Speaker 2: on the right foot and you're going into the postseason
Speaker 2: with momentum. Typically it just doesn't tend to carry over,
Speaker 2: particularly now where the Caves are going to get a
Speaker 2: week off after the season. As the playing goes on,
Speaker 2: they're basically going to have a week of training camp
Speaker 2: positive or negative momentum. You're just not going to be
Speaker 2: able to carry that forward. So it would feel a
Speaker 2: little dishonest because we want to continue to see, Okay,
Speaker 2: can Darius get back on track, Ken Donovan get out
Speaker 2: of his shooting slump, I can mobily continue to attack
Speaker 2: some of these larger defenders and work on the counters
Speaker 2: that are going to be so important in the postseason.
Speaker 2: Like it's just the result to me isn't as interesting
Speaker 2: as the process, and the process didn't feel as clean.
Speaker 2: In Utah, I felt much much better about the overall
Speaker 2: process and kind of the collective effort from the Calves
Speaker 2: against the Blazers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think even when the Portland game wasn't going well,
Speaker 1: it was primarily like making mistakes or not executing, but
Speaker 1: like what they were trying to do felt really really good.
Speaker 1: And who knows, you know, Portland has been really really hot,
Speaker 1: but like they're still not a great team by any means.
Speaker 1: They're thirty two and forty one. This is not like
Speaker 1: a banner win, and maybe to some extent we are
Speaker 1: giving it a little bit more love than we would
Speaker 1: have two months ago when the team hadn't lost four
Speaker 1: games in a row, and you know, maybe this is
Speaker 1: just a who hum, nice win, But like I do
Speaker 1: think it felt it felt cavsy that and that's really
Speaker 1: really good to see. So really, all I want is
Speaker 1: for this team to feel like they felt all year
Speaker 1: that four game losing streak was frustrating in part because
Speaker 1: they didn't. Yeah, it always feels better when things feel familiar,
Speaker 1: when everything's in place, all the support that you you
Speaker 1: count on is there, and I just love always having
Speaker 1: that background support from zoom Ai Companion Carter, because only
Speaker 1: you can do your best work, zoom Ayi Companion can
Speaker 1: help you do the rest, like automatically taking notes answering
Speaker 1: meeting questions, and helping you respond to your co worker
Speaker 1: bailable no additional cost with eligible pay plans were Cappy
Speaker 1: Zoom AI companion Noah's putting in work in the background
Speaker 1: all game against the Blazers. Evan damn Mobley, that was
Speaker 1: a terrific defensive performance. You know, a defensive Player of
Speaker 1: the Year. Reclaiming performance, one could ask.
Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing. He didn't sit on a podcast
Speaker 2: and complain. Apparently that matters a whole lot more than performances.
Speaker 2: And honestly, I'm tired of this nonsense.
Speaker 3: Carter Terrible, I am terrible.
Speaker 2: I'm tired of the shifting standards when it comes to awards.
Speaker 2: I'm particularly when it comes to Evan Mobley. I'm i
Speaker 2: am still fired up over that Rookie of the Year
Speaker 2: where you know, oh, winning really really matters, and then oh,
Speaker 2: Evan Mobley misses ten days and the Cavs slip in
Speaker 2: the standings, so you know they didn't win as much,
Speaker 2: so we have to give the award to someone else where.
Speaker 2: In fact, losing those games is probably a pretty big
Speaker 2: reflection of how good Evan Mobley is. But let's give
Speaker 2: it to somebody who's part of a six man rotation
Speaker 2: and the team is better with him on the bench
Speaker 2: than he is on the court. I am still not
Speaker 2: over that. I am completely blown away by this nonsense.
Speaker 2: With Draymond Green, who is a terrific defender, Don't get
Speaker 2: me wrong, when he is still locked in, when he
Speaker 2: is giving effort, he is capable of playing defense at
Speaker 2: a top five level, you know, as good as almost
Speaker 2: anybody in the league. But from a consistency standpoint, are
Speaker 2: you kidding me? Evan Mobley has been dominant defensively all year.
Speaker 2: You know he's going to give you the rebounds, He's
Speaker 2: going to give you the blocks, He's going to give
Speaker 2: you the steals. When he gets a block, it's basically
Speaker 2: like a steal because he always keeps it in play.
Speaker 2: He initiates the offense. I don't know what we're doing here.
Speaker 2: I don't understand how someone can go from a distant,
Speaker 2: distant underdog from a betting standpoint to all the way
Speaker 2: in the lead just because he asked for it on
Speaker 2: a podcast, and then national podcasters falling in line acting
Speaker 2: like Evan Mobley is a defensive liability because they saw
Speaker 2: one highlight one highlight of James Harden having a throwback moment,
Speaker 2: and that's enough to make you think you get hunt.
Speaker 2: You can hunt Evan Mobley. You hunt Evan Mobley. He
Speaker 2: is going to maul you.
Speaker 1: Rather you. I feel better. Yeah, did you feel good
Speaker 1: to get that out?
Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, I feel good. Man. That that was cathartic.
Speaker 1: I have. I think the perfect way to explain it
Speaker 1: would be a tweet. When I complained about this on
Speaker 1: Twitter ninety nine overall, Calvin said, if I had a
Speaker 1: dollar for every time I swore Mobley had an award
Speaker 1: locked and then someone random entered the conversation and Martin
Speaker 1: stole it, I would have two dollars. But it's weird.
Speaker 1: It's happened twice.
Speaker 2: No, Yeah, like I understood the odds would close because
Speaker 2: you know Wemby's not there, Jaron Jackson, you know misses time,
Speaker 2: so naturally the person in second place is going to
Speaker 2: move up in the odds because you know it's never
Speaker 2: just one person in the race. Come on, man, Evan Mobley,
Speaker 2: particularly this year where it is so apparent that you
Speaker 2: know it's not the numbers in the past, you could
Speaker 2: make the argument, Hey, Evan Mobley's defensive numbers are not
Speaker 2: as strong when Jared Allen isn't out there, so who's
Speaker 2: really anchoring the defense?
Speaker 3: He's playing as a power forward.
Speaker 2: A lot of the time, does he have the same
Speaker 2: defensive impact as some of these true defensive anchors.
Speaker 3: That's not the case this year.
Speaker 2: The solo mobile numbers defensively are phenomenal. It's been honestly
Speaker 2: the driving force of that of a Mitchell Evan Mobley
Speaker 2: pairing when when Darius and Jared go to the bench,
Speaker 2: it's been the defense that has really carry that lineup.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it is pretty jarring, pretty surprising to
Speaker 1: see that it's even in question. I hope it's a
Speaker 1: brief blip. Maxico in the chat it says, maybe you
Speaker 1: guys should ask for a million dollars since whatever you
Speaker 1: ask for on a podcast you can get, you know
Speaker 1: what we're trying every day and it still hasn't happened yet,
Speaker 1: So maybe that's an NBA privilege, player privilege only. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's pretty crazy to me, and I
Speaker 1: do think just in general, it feels to me like
Speaker 1: this last six games or so has represented one of
Speaker 1: the sneakiest little Evan Mobley leaps that we ever did see. Like,
Speaker 1: I feel like he's been other than that one the
Speaker 1: game against the Clippers, where I thought he was really
Speaker 1: pretty rough. Like he's been phenomenal on both sides of
Speaker 1: the floor and really dominating in like a takeover kind
Speaker 1: of sense. You know, took over late against uh gosh,
Speaker 1: who was it? Against the Suns. You know, had a
Speaker 1: few huge moments on offense and defense against Portland where
Speaker 1: you know it, you know, he bulldozed through Denny Abdia
Speaker 1: and for that dunk. Like he's having such loud splash
Speaker 1: plays over this last five or six games, and I
Speaker 1: feel like it's kind of just gone under the radar
Speaker 1: because the team hasn't been playing particularly well. But man,
Speaker 1: when everything else comes together, if he keeps this up,
Speaker 1: it's it's curtains for a lot of teams. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: you look at those solo defensive numbers, they have a
Speaker 1: defensive rating below one ten one. It's just Evan Mobley
Speaker 1: and no Jared Allen. And like, honestly, what he is
Speaker 1: capable of doing defensively blows my mind. Like his ability
Speaker 1: to defend.
Speaker 2: In space, the rebounding the steels, doing so without fouling
Speaker 2: is at such a high, high level, and I continue
Speaker 2: to think back to you know, Rudy Gobert and the
Speaker 2: Defensive Player of the Year awards and all the accolades
Speaker 2: that he's earned as a defensive player. Having somebody at
Speaker 2: that level defensively that is also capable of running offense
Speaker 2: the way that Evan Mobley is that that is able
Speaker 2: to go out there and give you, you know, twenty
Speaker 2: one points, twelve rebounds for assist, four blocks like that
Speaker 2: is the that's the path man like Evan Mobley. I
Speaker 2: have never felt more confident that Evan Mobley has like
Speaker 2: a ceiling of being a top five player. I absolutely
Speaker 2: believe that when you have someone that is defensive player
Speaker 2: of the Year caliber that is also able to produce
Speaker 2: offensively at this level, that has taken you know, such
Speaker 2: a a dramatic leap at twenty three years old. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's the path. That's the That's the damn path to
Speaker 2: a top five player. And to me, the most fascinating
Speaker 2: thing about talking about this cav team currently, they are
Speaker 2: without a doubt, a contender. They are a team that
Speaker 2: can win a championship this season. Winning a championship when
Speaker 2: your two best players are you know, six three, six
Speaker 2: to one, Donovan Mitchell and Darius Garland. You need to
Speaker 2: have a high level impact from Evan Mobley. You have
Speaker 2: to win as a collective. We're gonna need DeAndre Hunter
Speaker 2: to play at a high level, we need Jared to
Speaker 2: step up. But it's possible, it's possible to win with
Speaker 2: this configuration. But when you forecast down the road Evan
Speaker 2: Mobley continuing to close that gap and potentially ascending to
Speaker 2: a top five player, that just completely changes the map.
Speaker 2: That opens up your contending window even wider, because now
Speaker 2: you have a more traditional way to go out and
Speaker 2: win a championship. And you know, if if he's going
Speaker 2: to get short changed in the awards voting, which let's
Speaker 2: be clear here, like I like to represent both sides,
Speaker 2: I like to hedge my bets. I like to be
Speaker 2: fair as I'm being biased as hell. If he doesn't
Speaker 2: win Defensive Player of the Year, he's robbed. Like he
Speaker 2: absolutely deserves to win damn Defensive Player of the Year,
Speaker 2: and nothing short of robbery would stop that this year.
Speaker 2: If he doesn't win that, hopefully that that's fuel. Hopefully
Speaker 2: that's continued motivation because it's it's absurd to you know,
Speaker 2: harken back to that tweet he just pulled up. It
Speaker 2: happening twice where he loses out on a warding gets robbed,
Speaker 2: particularly due to podcast opinions. First time around, it was
Speaker 2: Zach Low giving his award voting and everyone's cheating off
Speaker 2: his notes. This time Draymond Green asking for it himself.
Speaker 2: To me, I find that to be absurd.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Draymond just pulled up fandel Is minus one
Speaker 1: thirty five. He has moved into even more of a
Speaker 1: favorite than he was.
Speaker 2: Two days ago, even though he ill cooked by Bam.
Speaker 1: So I don't know, man, I just I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know what people are seeing. I don't know
Speaker 1: where this where this momentum came from, other than from
Speaker 1: the least legitimate source for this to come from. And
Speaker 1: it would be very, very disappointing. But you know, the
Speaker 1: nice thing for us as Cavs fans is we kind
Speaker 1: of win either way because either Mobley gets appropriately recognized
Speaker 1: for being the best defensive player in the league this year,
Speaker 1: or Mobley's furious that he wasn't recognized for being the
Speaker 1: best defensive player in the league this year. I mean
Speaker 1: look at how thoroughly Mobley has throttled Scottie Barnes in
Speaker 1: the games following that award being taken from him at
Speaker 1: the eleventh hour, Like and apply that to the entire league.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean we smoke the Wars by forty five.
Speaker 2: Know if he needed more motivation to smoke Dreamlond but
Speaker 2: you know, who knows, maybe he'll get that. You know,
Speaker 2: it just drives me nuts where you know, you see
Speaker 2: on a national level people that cover a beat that
Speaker 2: really are close it and plugged in on teams, they'll
Speaker 2: really advocate for those guys. I feel like we don't
Speaker 2: have those homers in the media. Like, you know, Brian
Speaker 2: Windhors gets accused of that on The Hoop Collective, which
Speaker 2: I think is absurd. I think his analysis is much
Speaker 2: more fair and not homerrific. But then he's talking about
Speaker 2: Mobile getting hunted defensively because of that hard and play,
Speaker 2: Like that's not homer talk. That's you know, that's trying
Speaker 2: to give a bounds view or whatever you want to
Speaker 2: call it. But bon Tempsen mcmahonor are so low on
Speaker 2: the team that by comparison, he gets called a homer.
Speaker 2: Guess who's going to be a homer me, Carter, I'm
Speaker 2: going to be the homer. I'm your Huckleberry, all right,
Speaker 2: I'm going to step up here. I'm going to be
Speaker 2: that homer that that's necessary. And we don't have the
Speaker 2: reach to influence awards ballots, but I'm going to be here,
Speaker 2: yap in a way talking Evan Mobley deserves to be
Speaker 2: Defensive Player of the Year.
Speaker 1: He absolutely does, and and I just be Yeah, I
Speaker 1: thought I really did think I was post caring about awards,
Speaker 1: but like it just feels like such nasty work, this
Speaker 1: whole thing.
Speaker 3: You know, we've been We've been so good this year. Man.
Speaker 2: Like as much as I'm complaining about some national coverage,
Speaker 2: I think in general it's been awesome.
Speaker 3: It's been very.
Speaker 1: Very positive coverage. And I do think part of me
Speaker 1: wonders here, here's an actual honest question. How much do
Speaker 1: you think the fact that the Calves offense has been
Speaker 1: so loudly their driver this year is playing into some
Speaker 1: of this because their defense, like per one hundred, is
Speaker 1: pretty much the same as last year's in the year before,
Speaker 1: like their defense has not slipped. But the thing that
Speaker 1: makes them, you know that that an outsider perspective would
Speaker 1: say is making them special as their offense. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like, I don't know, did Sean Marion ever win
Speaker 1: Defensive Player of the Year. I don't think he did.
Speaker 3: I don't think he did.
Speaker 1: Know and as and I always kind of felt that
Speaker 1: way about the Marion on those Suns teams, is like, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's phenomenal, but they're not going to give it to
Speaker 1: a team that is known for their offense. And I
Speaker 1: wonder if that's part of what is playing against him
Speaker 1: this year, whereas like Golden State's defense is much better
Speaker 1: than Golden State's offense this year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think maybe that's a factor. And you know, maybe.
Speaker 1: That's not a good factor. To be clear, that's not
Speaker 1: a smart an analytical factor. I just wonder if that's
Speaker 1: part of the perception.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think one of the continuous issues that you deal
Speaker 2: with when you talk about awards is that people aren't
Speaker 2: putting a lot of effort into it. I don't think
Speaker 2: they dive into the data. Yeah, the defense is the
Speaker 2: same as it was last year, But what's different than
Speaker 2: last year is there is a drop off this year
Speaker 2: when you're going from Mobiley to Jared Right, some of
Speaker 2: that has been three point variants. Some of it has
Speaker 2: been a field goal percentage at the rim. Evan Mobley
Speaker 2: is the reason why him his number is being so
Speaker 2: much better defensively, is the reason why the team's overall
Speaker 2: defense is in the same spot that it was, you know,
Speaker 2: the year prior. So you know, who knows. Maybe it's
Speaker 2: the ebbs and flows of award voting and you know,
Speaker 2: the shifting nods or just to drive action or whatever
Speaker 2: the case may be. Well, we'll see what it ultimately is.
Speaker 2: But yeah, the good thing is accolades do non impact results,
Speaker 2: and I don't think that there's much There's not a
Speaker 2: lot of things that I can think of. There's not
Speaker 2: a lot of players I can think that impact results
Speaker 2: more than Evan Mobley. When you look at basically what
Speaker 2: he's done since he was drafted to a lottery team,
Speaker 2: you look at the winning percentage of when he plays
Speaker 2: as a Cleveland Cavalier, we're at a fifty three win
Speaker 2: pace for his career. When Evan Mobley is in the lineup.
Speaker 2: That is a guy that impacts winning. His defense has
Speaker 2: been the primary driver of impacting that winning. But now
Speaker 2: he's becoming a well rounded player and that's what's helping
Speaker 2: elevate him to that top ten level.
Speaker 1: Man, Let's hope, let's hope they finish the season strong,
Speaker 1: and you know, we can flip some of these narratives back.
Speaker 1: You know, let's go get that wins record. Why not,
Speaker 1: you know, go get that wins record. They got to
Speaker 1: finish nine and one to get it. Justin how the.
Speaker 2: Hell are they getting a back to back? When they
Speaker 2: returned from their road trip, I was listening to Chris
Speaker 2: Feeder's podcast, he mentioned that they got home to Cleveland
Speaker 2: like with the time change, flying back for over on
Speaker 2: Portland at seven thirty in the morning, and then they
Speaker 2: have a back to back. Evan Mobley will be out
Speaker 2: for the game against home road back to back. It's
Speaker 2: not even a home home back to back.
Speaker 3: Absurd.
Speaker 2: I mean, at least it's a short flight to Detroit.
Speaker 2: But man, like it's just constant, constant travel. Mobley is
Speaker 2: out for Rest against the Spurs. Ti Jerome is questionable.
Speaker 2: I thought Ti Jerome and DeAndre Hunter deserve a shap
Speaker 2: off for that Portland game. Both of them were fantastic
Speaker 2: coming in there. I found it interesting, Carter, this probably
Speaker 2: isn't a surprise, particularly with Hunter coming in off the
Speaker 2: bench and Harris LeVert going out in the DeAndrea Hunter trade.
Speaker 2: But DeAndre Hunter's played more minutes with Tie than anyone
Speaker 2: else on the team, two hundred and sixty three minutes
Speaker 2: together with Ty Jerome one twenty four point five offensive
Speaker 2: rating plus ten point three nets. They've been awesome together,
Speaker 2: and you know, them providing that kind of joint scoring
Speaker 2: punch was a big part of that win against the Blazers.
Speaker 1: Jimmy Longo just jumped into the YouTube chat and said
Speaker 1: he got into his house at eight thirty in the morning.
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: Shouts to Jimmy if you're in the everyone else in
Speaker 1: the chat, please please give some love to Jimmy. Every
Speaker 1: beautiful pick, almost every beautiful picture you see the Cavs
Speaker 1: sweet out, a lot of them are coming from Jemmy,
Speaker 1: So big, big shouts to big shouts to Jimmy. Happy
Speaker 1: to see him in the chat. Can't believe he's not
Speaker 1: in a coma right now after that roach trip.
Speaker 2: He's trying to stay awake so that he can fall
Speaker 2: asleep tonight at a normal time and start getting that
Speaker 2: internal clock back on track.
Speaker 1: Jimmy says who says, I'm not in a coma. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you can do that. You can lay you can you
Speaker 1: can be listening to the podcast laying down.
Speaker 2: I think I think that's been reflected in our review sometimes,
Speaker 2: where people say they listen to us and they feel
Speaker 2: like they're.
Speaker 1: In a coma. But yeah, I mean to get us
Speaker 1: back on topic, Ty and DeAndre uh definitely were very good.
Speaker 1: I messaged you during the game yesterday. I was just like,
Speaker 1: what is DeAndre kind of the mid range prince that
Speaker 1: was promised that you know, we wanted from Caris, you know,
Speaker 1: because even when Karis were as best, I always I
Speaker 1: never really felt like we got that the the MIDI
Speaker 1: king that we thought we were getting. We thought we're
Speaker 1: going to get the tough shot seventeen footer guy. And
Speaker 1: I always felt like Carris's best games were when he
Speaker 1: was killing it at the rim and from three, and like,
Speaker 1: I'm sure that. I mean, that's almost always going to
Speaker 1: be the case with your best games. But it feels
Speaker 1: like DeAndre is able to use that extra height, that
Speaker 1: extra size to take the bump, get set and have
Speaker 1: a really clean look at the rim on some of
Speaker 1: these midies.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think it's a real benefit to have
Speaker 2: someone that's that long and capable of getting that shot off,
Speaker 2: because that's that's a playoff shot like that, that mid
Speaker 2: range kind of pull up. You need to be able
Speaker 2: to have someone that can take and make those because
Speaker 2: often that's what the defense is giving you. And thinking
Speaker 2: back to those finals teams that we had with the Cavs,
Speaker 2: that was a big part of, you know, the shot
Speaker 2: diet for Kyrie. Kyrie being that mid range assassin helped
Speaker 2: reopen up the paint, It helped open up the perimeter.
Speaker 2: And having someone that has the length that DeAndre Hunter
Speaker 2: has to hit those tough shots, that is something that
Speaker 2: gives me confidence heading into the playoffs. That's something that
Speaker 2: we haven't had in the past where you know, you
Speaker 2: really were relying on two shorter guards to generate all
Speaker 2: of the offense. And you know, if Mobiley was being
Speaker 2: passive or Jared wasn't having a good game, he just
Speaker 2: didn't have that front court initiation. So to have DeAndre
Speaker 2: Hunter capable of doing that and then Ti Jerome who's
Speaker 2: just going to take shots no matter what, like that's
Speaker 2: those those are two archetypes that when I think back
Speaker 2: to teams that have won the championship, that have contended
Speaker 2: for championships. Those are really really important archetypes. Those are
Speaker 2: things that I can point back to. I can think of,
Speaker 2: you know, Jason Terry having those Ti Jerome type games,
Speaker 2: and you know the fact that he's done it for
Speaker 2: the entirety of this regular season with you know, a
Speaker 2: few shooting lalls, but the continued confidence throughout. I think
Speaker 2: that that's a really really encouraging sign.
Speaker 3: Brother.
Speaker 1: I don't know what A significantly tougher shot diet for
Speaker 1: Ty Jerome looks like like he's like I remember earlier
Speaker 1: in the year he was in ninety ninth percentile for
Speaker 1: like difficulty of his shots, and like it looks like it. Yep,
Speaker 1: numbers match doesn't feel easy, Nope. And one thing I'll
Speaker 1: say on DeAndre just a reminder, just because we haven't
Speaker 1: really talked about it since the trade, he has been
Speaker 1: a playoff riser, you know, which is the kind of
Speaker 1: guy you really want. He's averaged sixteen points in five
Speaker 1: boards in his playoff career, slashing a forty eight and
Speaker 1: forty eight from the field and forty from three. Like,
Speaker 1: he is a player who has done well in that
Speaker 1: setting in tough matchups. So really excited to see how
Speaker 1: he kind of fits in to this rotation as they
Speaker 1: move into the kind of end of the postseason.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm I am very curious about you know. I
Speaker 2: continue to keep an eye on how he's fitting into
Speaker 2: the rotation because the one thing that's really surprised me
Speaker 2: is that he is playing primarily as a power forward,
Speaker 2: even with him coming in off the bench. I kind
Speaker 2: of expected a little more even if he's coming off
Speaker 2: the bench that it would be with Dean Wade. Right, Okay,
Speaker 2: we're going to have them as our three to four.
Speaker 2: We're going to play a more versatile defensive lineup, but
Speaker 2: we're still going to maintain size. And one thing that
Speaker 2: Kenny has been talking about in the post games is
Speaker 2: that he wants to continue to have an increased emphasis
Speaker 2: on the possession battle because so often that it is
Speaker 2: one of the most important factors in the postseason. When
Speaker 2: you go into a series against the Boston Celtics, that's
Speaker 2: going to be something that really matters. One of the
Speaker 2: ways that you can mitigate any talent gap that exists
Speaker 2: or experience gap that exists, is by mitigating those mistakes
Speaker 2: by making sure you give yourself those extra possessions. And
Speaker 2: the thing that I find really interesting about him playing
Speaker 2: primarily as a power forward is I think that that
Speaker 2: does kind of work against that rebounding goal. DeAndre Hunter
Speaker 2: has had times where he's rebounded well, but he is
Speaker 2: not a particularly starrong rebounder, and when he playing as
Speaker 2: the power forward, the trickle down effect of that is
Speaker 2: you're playing smaller everywhere else throughout the lineup, and particularly
Speaker 2: when you look at the fact that he's played more
Speaker 2: minutes with Ty Jerome than anyone else. We've already talked
Speaker 2: about how playing tie means alongside one of the guards
Speaker 2: means that you know, you have two guys that are
Speaker 2: susceptible to being attacked by perimeter players offensively. But with
Speaker 2: Sam continuing to play as much as he is, you're
Speaker 2: playing three guard lineups with the power forward that isn't
Speaker 2: particularly strong on the defensive glass. And that gets into
Speaker 2: what we were talking about before, where Jarrett gets a
Speaker 2: disproportion amount of the blame when he's playing with a
Speaker 2: power forward that is in a particularly strong defensive rebounder
Speaker 2: and three guards on the perimeter.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, and it's a little concerning the Calves
Speaker 1: on the season are down to twenty second in defensive
Speaker 1: rebound rate. Prior to the All Star Break, they were eighteenth.
Speaker 1: After the All Star Break, they are twenty fifth. And
Speaker 1: you know, we went into that New York series two
Speaker 1: years ago and we did say we're confident going into
Speaker 1: the series, but one thing that could really hurt us
Speaker 1: is the boards. You know, you know, at that point
Speaker 1: New York was the best offensive rebound rate in the league,
Speaker 1: in the best offensive rebound rate team in the league.
Speaker 1: My brain just collapsed on itself. And the Cavs were
Speaker 1: after the All Star Break by a mile, the worst
Speaker 1: defensive rebound rate team in the league.
Speaker 3: And like they're not that.
Speaker 1: You know, the difference between twenty fifth and in seventeenth
Speaker 1: or fifteenth is like a percentage point or two. So
Speaker 1: it's not like disaster town. But you know, you look
Speaker 1: at their peers post All Star Break in terms of
Speaker 1: bad defensive rebound rate, Philly, Washington, in San Antonio, Brooklyn, Portland,
Speaker 1: or Lando, Atlanta, New Orleans, Charlotte, those are their peers
Speaker 1: in the defensive rebound Those are the people around them
Speaker 1: in the defensive rebound rate. So like this is I
Speaker 1: think I'm willing to say it is like a real concern,
Speaker 1: not a death knell, you know, burn it all down,
Speaker 1: we're screwed. But it is a thing that you really
Speaker 1: want to see them figure out a way to address,
Speaker 1: whether it's in the lineups they're playing to your point
Speaker 1: or just playing better.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And to me, the primary concern is that I like,
Speaker 2: when I look at the most likely opponents, that's not
Speaker 2: a strength for any of them, right, Like the New
Speaker 2: York Knicks are not a big offensive rebounding team like
Speaker 2: they used to be, even with the return of Mitchell Robinson.
Speaker 2: Boston Celtics are in particular really strong there. The Oklahoma
Speaker 2: City Thunder aren't going to make you pay there, So
Speaker 2: I don't think it's going to materialize in the same way.
Speaker 2: But the concern to me is I do believe that
Speaker 2: this is something that can be changed with personnel decisions
Speaker 2: by playing a different lineup. I think DeAndre at the
Speaker 2: three and mor Dean at the four does feel like
Speaker 2: the if you had to do a one sentence solution,
Speaker 2: it's probably that, right, yeah, right, And even if you're
Speaker 2: talking about all right, well, we're going to play some
Speaker 2: hunter at the four. But we're going to have Icycle
Speaker 2: Corra out there, and we're going to have Maxters out there,
Speaker 2: right the guys that are high energy guys. I've loved
Speaker 2: how Ocoro has been hitting the glass. That's different than
Speaker 2: playing that three guard lineup. And I do think, you know,
Speaker 2: the tension point here continues to be Sam Merrill, who
Speaker 2: you know. Kenny Atkinson inserted him in the starting lineup
Speaker 2: against Portland. I thought it was very similar to what
Speaker 2: he did with Wade in the starting lineup against Sacramento,
Speaker 2: where Wade had been in a bit of a slump.
Speaker 2: Sam has been in a slump lately and that really
Speaker 2: got them going. And the tough thing is, boy was
Speaker 2: Sam good?
Speaker 3: By the way? Sam?
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Sam was terrific. And you know, the
Speaker 2: tension point is at someone that deserves minutes. That's someone
Speaker 2: that's been playing really well. When you look at the
Speaker 2: lineup data, like as much as I'll say, you know
Speaker 2: from a theory, from a theory standpoint, and how it
Speaker 2: feels on paper, the three guard lineups, I don't love it.
Speaker 2: When you look at the actual lineup data, terrific. Defensively,
Speaker 2: the numbers with tiderome are phenomenal. I look at the
Speaker 2: offensive rebounds allowed with Sam Merrill at the two versus
Speaker 2: Sam Merrill at the three, and it's a less than
Speaker 2: one percent difference. It's not like that has been kind
Speaker 2: of the thing that's driving it. If I look at
Speaker 2: DeAndre Hunter at the three with Jared Allen and Evan Mobley,
Speaker 2: it's very small sample. It's under one hundred possessions, but
Speaker 2: they're in the zero percentile in terms of offensive rebound rate.
Speaker 3: They give up a lot of them. If I add
Speaker 3: Dean Wade to the.
Speaker 2: DeAndre Hunter minutes, it's two hundred and ten possessions. It's
Speaker 2: only in the eleven, sorry, the seventh percentile in offensive
Speaker 2: rebound rate. It's not like Dean automatically fixes that issue.
Speaker 2: But my issue truly is that I just don't think
Speaker 2: that we have a lot of minutes with these guys.
Speaker 2: I think that we can play different styles. I think,
Speaker 2: particularly when it comes to things like defense, understanding rebounding assignments,
Speaker 2: those sorts of things, you need to have familiarity, you
Speaker 2: have to have continuity. It requires communication, and without the
Speaker 2: necessary reps in the regular season, I don't think you
Speaker 2: can necessarily build that and you're just running low on games,
Speaker 2: so you're stuck in a tough situation where, you know,
Speaker 2: I don't envy Kenny Atkinson. You're dealing with someone that's
Speaker 2: very deserving of minutes. Where the lineup data is all
Speaker 2: phenomenal when it comes to Sam Merrill, but then when
Speaker 2: you're trying to anticipate potential pain points in the playoffs,
Speaker 2: it may necessitate going into a different direction with the rotation.
Speaker 2: It's a really really tough thing to balance here.
Speaker 3: They're I.
Speaker 2: The case seems very very easy on paper. In reality,
Speaker 2: and particularly when you're talking about a coaching staff that does,
Speaker 2: you know, value the data. The data makes it so
Speaker 2: much harder because it just works every other way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's almost so I think it's almost one
Speaker 1: of the spots where the Cabs are a little punished
Speaker 1: by how easy this season's been. Yeah, where it's really
Speaker 1: really hard to find high minute lineups that get their
Speaker 1: ass kicked. Yeah, on either end of the floor. Like
Speaker 1: even like, oh, that offensive that lineup isn't so good.
Speaker 1: They only posted a one fourteen offensive rating, and if
Speaker 1: they'd made two more threes it would be one seventeen
Speaker 1: offensive ratings. You know, like so like everything kind of
Speaker 1: flattens out. You know, I've talked a lot about how,
Speaker 1: you know, it's easier to analyze things from this seat,
Speaker 1: and probably from a coach's seat too, when you lose
Speaker 1: because you have a dead body to autopsy. It's a
Speaker 1: lot harder when all these lineups have been serving you
Speaker 1: really really well this year. So it's funny, we've we've
Speaker 1: had so much fun justin extolling the virtues of our
Speaker 1: forty eight minutes of hell and how it sucks to
Speaker 1: play us because every lineup we play is good.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 1: Now when we're starting to get really really playoff focused,
Speaker 1: we don't have good data to make to base our
Speaker 1: opinions on or or we don't have different data. It's
Speaker 1: not to say the data is not good just because
Speaker 1: it's not what aligns with us, but it's really really
Speaker 1: hard to to, you know, to you know, try to
Speaker 1: like split the hairs on on these opinions when the
Speaker 1: data set is so samey.
Speaker 3: And here's the other tricky thing.
Speaker 2: When we're talking about trying different things right, whether it's
Speaker 2: moving DeAndre Hunter to the starting lineup, which you know,
Speaker 2: I continue to talk about how good the Max Strus
Speaker 2: lineup is but just to get minutes with DeAndre Hunter
Speaker 2: and the core four like that seems to be the
Speaker 2: only way you can go with it. Whether it's that
Speaker 2: as an example, whether it is changing up the rotation
Speaker 2: to give icycle choral more minutes, or plane Dean Wade
Speaker 2: along with DeAndre Hunter so that you have more size
Speaker 2: in the front court. Anytime you're talking about one of
Speaker 2: those changes, you're talking about moving away from a lineup
Speaker 2: combination that's worked really well, that yields consistently good results
Speaker 2: at a time where the team overall is struggling, where
Speaker 2: you know, Darius Garland and Donovan Mitchell have been going
Speaker 2: through slumps, and you know the things that you can
Speaker 2: traditionally count on to work are no longer you know,
Speaker 2: supporting you as a backbone. So you're saying make or
Speaker 2: we're saying, make these adjustments, make you these tweaks experiment
Speaker 2: for the postseason at a time where hey, this canoe
Speaker 2: is starting to leak a little bit of water here
Speaker 2: and we're tired.
Speaker 3: We're not I'm not in the mood to experiment.
Speaker 2: Let's let's let's stick with some bread and butter here.
Speaker 2: Let's make it through the cold hard winner. And then
Speaker 2: you know, when when when you have the postseason, let's
Speaker 2: let's mess around in the first round. We have a
Speaker 2: warm up series basically that we we can you know,
Speaker 2: go through and maybe make some of these tweaks. It's
Speaker 2: it's a it's a tough, tough ask, and I just
Speaker 2: want to communicate that I understand it's a tough, tough ask.
Speaker 2: And I don't think that this stuff is as straightforward
Speaker 2: as it feels even in my own head.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And I do wonder now that they have given
Speaker 1: up ground that will likely be hard to reclaim, and
Speaker 1: the overall ones race, and you know, obviously, and Boston's
Speaker 1: right on their heels, all of a sudden, they're they're
Speaker 1: they're five games back. Thank god, the haves won to
Speaker 1: get them back to five games. And I looked at
Speaker 1: that stands as I saw four and a half, I
Speaker 1: was like, oh my gosh, because it just felt so
Speaker 1: over in. Still really should be. It would be really
Speaker 1: really bad to be to be caught. But I do
Speaker 1: wonder if once the one seed is confirmed, you know,
Speaker 1: let's say they go win their next three games or
Speaker 1: something like, and and Boston loses one, and it's like
Speaker 1: all but done. I wonder if that's where we see
Speaker 1: an actual change in their strategy the rest of the year,
Speaker 1: or if they're just still trying to win games and
Speaker 1: just get through see if they're trying to get to
Speaker 1: that wins record and all that stuff. I just I
Speaker 1: wonder where their priorities are going to lie now that
Speaker 1: one piece of the puzzle, which is the number one
Speaker 1: overall seed, feels pretty out of reach.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's going to be really interesting, right, Like, I
Speaker 2: think this falls into the category of us continuing to
Speaker 2: learn more about Kenny Atkinson, and you know, I continue
Speaker 2: to really really appreciate how transparent he is in these
Speaker 2: postgame availabilities because we're not only learning about Kenny Atkinson,
Speaker 2: we're learning what he's learning, right, Like, he's really communicating, Hey,
Speaker 2: this is what I'm trying to accomplish, this is you know,
Speaker 2: this is the thought process behind what I'm doing. I
Speaker 2: just really really appreciate that insight. And you know that
Speaker 2: when it comes to DeAndre Hunter, yes, I'd love to
Speaker 2: see him start, just because I want to get those
Speaker 2: reps with the starters. The limited sample that we have
Speaker 2: on that is great, but you know, it's fifty three possessions.
Speaker 2: It's not even really worth you know, discussing the results
Speaker 2: when it comes to that. We do have some you know,
Speaker 2: continued data on how it's working in the staggered pairings,
Speaker 2: because obviously with him coming off the bench, he's playing
Speaker 2: a lot of minutes with Darius, He's playing a lot
Speaker 2: of minutes with Donovan. That lineup with with Darius, Jared
Speaker 2: and DeAndre is kind of the core three. There has
Speaker 2: a one to twenty six point six offensive rating plus
Speaker 2: fifteen point five and two hundred and sixty three possessions,
Speaker 2: so a pretty healthy sample there, with Donovan and Evan
Speaker 2: not as good on eight point three offensive rating and
Speaker 2: only a plus one point four net, so the defense
Speaker 2: is really struggling in those minutes in two hundred and
Speaker 2: twelve possessions. You know in theory that that combination of
Speaker 2: Donovan and Evan has been phenomenal defensively this year. It's
Speaker 2: been you know, considerably better on the defensive end than
Speaker 2: the Darius and Evan or sorry, jaredt one. So adding
Speaker 2: DeAndre Hunter shin't make it worse defensively. So I think
Speaker 2: that's probably a shooting variants kind of thing. But you know,
Speaker 2: DeAndre is someone that you can plug into a whole
Speaker 2: bunch of lineups, and I think continuing to go to
Speaker 2: that well of playing him with ty Jerome has been
Speaker 2: one of the things that they can really count on,
Speaker 2: particularly in a time where the starters haven't been as
Speaker 2: consistent as they have or as they were earlier in
Speaker 2: the season.
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, it's uh, it's gonna be a fun end
Speaker 1: of the year. Man. I think I went from uh,
Speaker 1: I've gone through quite an emotional game, and I feel
Speaker 1: like the last couple of weeks of like, everything's great,
Speaker 1: I have nothing less left to learn too, Oh crap,
Speaker 1: Like are we are we falling off in a way
Speaker 1: that is meaningful or is this just a we're not
Speaker 1: in the good you know, we're just not in the
Speaker 1: right headspace kind of slump. And now it's like, I'm
Speaker 1: just looking for playoff indicators wherever I can, you know,
Speaker 1: looking looking for any canaries in the coal mine that
Speaker 1: will tell me something about this team three four weeks
Speaker 1: from now, and you know, time will tell. I still
Speaker 1: would love to see them go for that wins record,
Speaker 1: you know, for the franchise record, but I think it's
Speaker 1: probably more important that they that they're healthy whole and
Speaker 1: you know, generally trending up on the way in.
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally agree.
Speaker 2: It's it's remarkable, man, Like it's the season's kind of
Speaker 2: flown by. You know, maybe time flies when you're having fun.
Speaker 2: But it's crazy that there's only ten games left and
Speaker 2: by the next time we podcast only be seven games left.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 2: We got three games and four nights all over again, man,
Speaker 2: and travel between all of them. I again, I can't
Speaker 2: believe that after this road trip we have a travel
Speaker 2: back to back, and not only that, after the travel
Speaker 2: back to back, you have an afternoon Mattine game on
Speaker 2: a Sunday against the Clippers.
Speaker 1: What have we done us?
Speaker 3: Adam Adamm Silver? What have we done to you? Why?
Speaker 3: Why do you do this to us? I want to know,
Speaker 3: I really really want to know.
Speaker 2: You know, when we talk about the wins record, if
Speaker 2: we go three and ozero over this stretch, I'm going
Speaker 2: to feel a lot better about what we're capable of
Speaker 2: pulling off those last seven games. So hopefully they can
Speaker 2: get the win again.
Speaker 1: First, for what, for what is worth? Before I know
Speaker 1: you're getting ready to wrap us, But for what is sworth?
Speaker 1: On the Evan Mobley agenda. He got one, two, three,
Speaker 1: four national games left in these final ten. You know,
Speaker 1: these are going to be the kind of things that
Speaker 1: can turn the tide. Like we saw Mobiley move from
Speaker 1: second behind JJJ to a definitive favorite for Defensive Player
Speaker 1: of the Year after he sunned him on National TV.
Speaker 1: They're going to have a marquee matchup with the Knicks
Speaker 1: on April second. I don't know if Brunston will be
Speaker 1: back by then, but uh but uh yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: it's a great, great opportunity for the for these guys
Speaker 1: to put one final stamp on what's been one of
Speaker 1: the best seasons in the history of the of the franchise.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know the sweet thing about the awards
Speaker 2: race when it comes to then Mobley winning Defensive Player
Speaker 2: or really any as awards is you know, you just
Speaker 2: know that the Cavs have to work five times harder
Speaker 2: to win any of those awards. If Evan Mobley has
Speaker 2: one bad defensive play in any of those National TV games,
Speaker 2: that's going to get held against them.
Speaker 3: That that. You know, Draymond can.
Speaker 2: Get cooked for a game against BAM out of bio,
Speaker 2: he can get cooked in any game. But all it
Speaker 2: takes is one play for for the odds to shift
Speaker 2: in a big way. You know what, I have a
Speaker 2: real takeaway though, Carter Evan Mobley, come on the podcast,
Speaker 2: because apparently complaining on the podcast is all you need
Speaker 2: to do to win an award.
Speaker 1: To see you herev come on over.
Speaker 2: You know, maybe maybe I should be advocating for podcast awards.
Speaker 2: Maybe I should be complaining more about that kind of
Speaker 2: stuff and speaking that into existence, getting us some awards, Carter.
Speaker 1: Our accolades, God, we need them, yeah, really do.
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: You know, my my my ego is totally in check
Speaker 2: as is so I'm baby. I'm sure it would stay
Speaker 2: in a healthy, healthy place if we ever did win
Speaker 2: an award.
Speaker 1: But you know, so, no problem, very very true.
Speaker 2: You know, the only award I need, the only accolades
Speaker 2: I need, is the awesome support we get from our listeners.
Speaker 2: They appreciate you. Everyone hanging out in the chat on YouTube.
Speaker 2: Make sure you guys like and subscribe. Click that notification
Speaker 2: bell so you know when we're going live. If you're
Speaker 2: listening via podcast and you want to support us, leave
Speaker 2: us a rating, be a review, subscribe unsubscribed, resubscribe and
Speaker 2: help cook those books you want to be part of
Speaker 2: Chased on the exclusive discord chat Sydney Screenshaw. There review
Speaker 2: to Chase down pot at gmail dot com. However you
Speaker 2: choose to support us, we really do appreciate it. Make
Speaker 2: sure you guys are staying safe out there. Until next time,
Speaker 2: yoking