1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 2: Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My 3 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 2: name is Robert. 4 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 3: Lamb and I am Joe McCormick, and we're back with 5 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 3: part two in our series on diamonds Now. In the 6 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 3: previous episode we focused specifically on one strange question about diamonds, 7 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 3: which was our diamonds in one form or another poisonous. 8 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 3: This was the question that originally got me interested in 9 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:40,879 Speaker 3: the subject of diamonds, and brief recap I came across 10 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 3: it because of a passage in the absolutely bonkers autobiography 11 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 3: of the sixteenth century Italian sculptor named Benvenudo Cellini, who 12 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 3: told a story, among many other wild and probably heavily 13 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 3: embellished tales, about his enemies trying to poison him with 14 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 3: the powder of a hounded diamond while he was in prison. 15 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 3: And then from there we examined some other sources from history, 16 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 3: documenting the documenting and examining the belief that diamonds or 17 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 3: diamond powder could be used as a lethal poison, and 18 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 3: in the end it seemed that the actual evidence of 19 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 3: diamonds being reliably poisonous when swallowed was sort of weak, 20 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 3: but not weak enough that I'd just like down a 21 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 3: pixie stick full of it. Basically, it seems there's sort 22 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 3: of a dearth of high quality modern evidence one way 23 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:35,119 Speaker 3: or the other. Seems kind of doubtful that diamonds are poisonous, 24 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 3: but not doubtful enough that I would advise eating them. 25 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 3: I'd avoid it. But we are back today with part 26 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 3: two to talk some more about diamonds. 27 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 2: That's right, And as we mentioned in the last episode, 28 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 2: we figured it would be essential to talk a little 29 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 2: bit about like what diamonds are and roll through some 30 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 2: material you may be familiar with, you may may not, 31 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 2: you may have forgotten about it, but where diamonds come 32 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 2: from and what some of their major properties are. Right, 33 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 2: we'll start with the obvious, and this is highly subjective, 34 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 2: of course, but it's a popular view on diamonds, and 35 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 2: that is they're beautiful. A diamond receives white light, breaks 36 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 2: that white light like a prism, and then these resulting 37 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 2: colors hit the various facets of the diamond. What's more, 38 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 2: light that enters a faceted diamond, which you can do 39 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 2: from all sides, may bounce around in there several times 40 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 2: before shining back out again. 41 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 3: You know, it actually was making me wonder why sparkling 42 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 3: is sort of a general stand in for something that 43 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 3: is beautiful or something that catches the attention. You know. 44 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think part of it is just that we've 45 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 2: all really drunk the kool aid on how beautiful diamonds are, 46 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 2: not only in our lifetimes, but the over centuries and 47 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 2: centuries of pro diamond propaganda. Because it is interesting to 48 00:02:57,600 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 2: We'll get into this in a bit, like trying to 49 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:04,119 Speaker 2: figure out out when in history diamonds start becoming gems, 50 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 2: Like there's definitely definitely seems to be a point in 51 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 2: ancient cultures where like a diamond's not a gem. It's 52 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 2: useful for cutting gems, but it's not a gem, and 53 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 2: then that shifts over time. So we'll get into that 54 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 2: more in a bit. But in terms of light entering 55 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 2: the diamond and what it does in there, here's another 56 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 2: interesting fact. This is one that I was reading about 57 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 2: in an excellent Nova article titled The Science behind the 58 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 2: Sparkle by Robert Hazen. A diamond actually slows down light 59 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 2: inside of itself and does so like no other known 60 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 2: colorless substance. So compared to things like ice and water. 61 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 2: For example, the author here writes that a diamond slows 62 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 2: light down to less than eighty thousand miles per second, 63 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 2: and that's more than one hundred thousand miles per second 64 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 2: slower than in air. The slow down, Hayzan rites is 65 00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 2: complex and has to do with electron interactions and the 66 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 2: substances traveling through and it occurs with any matter, including 67 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 2: air and glass. And to put it all in context, 68 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 2: the speed of light in a vacuum is of course 69 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 2: one hundred and eighty six thousand miles per second. So anyway, 70 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 2: you can crunch the numbers, and I think crunching numbers 71 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 2: makes it actually feel a little more special when you 72 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 2: observed the sparkle here. But yeah, they do sparkle with 73 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 2: an almost otherworldly brilliance. There's a surreal dance of colors. 74 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:28,119 Speaker 2: And even if you don't desire diamonds for yourself, again, 75 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 2: the desire for them is just so entrenched in our 76 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 2: culture that it's a part of our language. You know, 77 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 2: you're just referencing, like talking about something sparkling, even if 78 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 2: it's not a diamond, you're talking about something else, but 79 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 2: you're talking about it as if it were a diamond 80 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 2: We talk about things like diamonds in the rough and 81 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 2: so forth. Now here's another thing you definitely already know 82 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 2: about diamonds. They're not only beautiful, they're very hard. Diamonds 83 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,039 Speaker 2: are the hardest naturally occurring substance that we know of, 84 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,599 Speaker 2: so hard in fact, that they have numerous industrial applications. 85 00:04:55,920 --> 00:05:00,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. And one thing that has confused in 86 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 3: the past is like the different terminology we use for 87 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 3: the strength or resilience of materials, because if we of 88 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 3: course used terms like hard and tough and all that 89 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 3: in an informal way where they all kind of mean 90 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 3: the same thing, but they also have some more specific 91 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 3: kind of scientific definitions or definitions in industrial uses. And 92 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 3: it's i think illuminating to look at the difference. So 93 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 3: what is toughness versus hardness? As usually understood, toughness is 94 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:33,719 Speaker 3: the ability of a material to absorb energy without breaking 95 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 3: or fracturing, whereas hardness is the ability of a material 96 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 3: to resist what's called plastic deformation, in other words, to 97 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 3: resist local changes to its shape from friction. So to 98 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 3: imagine concrete examples, these changes could be things like cutting, denting, 99 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 3: or scratching. So the harder a material is, the more 100 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,279 Speaker 3: difficult it is to make a scratch or a dent 101 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 3: in its surface. Hard materials don't scratch easily. In fact, 102 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,119 Speaker 3: they scratch other things, and you can usually tell which 103 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 3: material is harder by rubbing them together and seeing which 104 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 3: one scratches the other. Meanwhile, to come back to toughness, 105 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 3: brittleness is the opposite of toughness. The tougher material is 106 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 3: the more energy it can absorb before it cracks. So 107 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 3: rubber is not hard, but it is tough. You might 108 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,359 Speaker 3: be able to scratch it easily with a knife, but 109 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:33,719 Speaker 3: you can also hit it really hard and it won't fracture. Meanwhile, 110 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 3: like you said, rob a diamond is the hardest and 111 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 3: naturally occurring substance on Earth, so you can't scratch its 112 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 3: surface with a knife or any other normal material apart 113 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 3: from another diamond. It is going to be really, really 114 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 3: difficult to make a scratch or a cut in a diamond. 115 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 3: We need special apparatus for doing so. But while it's 116 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 3: the hardest natural material on Earth, it is not the toughest. 117 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 3: In fact, believe it or not, you can break a 118 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 3: diamond with a regular steel hammer and anvil in fact, 119 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 3: before we I just wanted to gut check myself on 120 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 3: this and be like, okay, well, assuming you can do that, 121 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 3: I want to see it. I bet there are videos 122 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 3: of people doing it, like on YouTube, and yep, you 123 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 3: can look them up. People put a diamond on an 124 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 3: anvil and smash it with a hammer. It breaks to pieces. 125 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 3: It's not necessarily easy to do, but with the regular 126 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 3: steel tools and enough force you can do it. That's right. 127 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 2: And we'll get into some specific examples of diamonds being 128 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 2: shattered as we proceed here. So yeah, they are not indestructible, 129 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 2: even though at times our linguistic treatment of diamond and 130 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 2: related terms ends up bleeding into that area. And in fact, 131 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 2: I have a pretty i think amusing comic book example 132 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 2: of that here in a. 133 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 3: Bit oh nice. But just to reinforce the shorthand on 134 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 3: toughness versus hardness, a hard material, it's going to be 135 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 3: difficult to cut, dent or scratch. A tough material, it's 136 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 3: going to be difficult to break. 137 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 2: Now here's another thing about diamonds that I think everyone 138 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 2: either you know this or you've heard it before, or 139 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 2: you're going to say, oh yeah, yeah, that's right. Now 140 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 2: I remember, okay, we're all carbon based organisms here in 141 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 2: a billion year old carbon if you will. And another 142 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:19,239 Speaker 2: interesting thing to remember about diamonds is that a diamond 143 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 2: is actually pure carbon. What we know of as a 144 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 2: diamond is actually a crystalline form of carbon, a fact 145 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 2: that was discovered for the first time in seventeen seventy 146 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:34,199 Speaker 2: two by French chemist Anthony Lavosier, an individual who made 147 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 2: numerous contributions to the advancement of chemical and biological sciences 148 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 2: before he was executed at the age of fifty on 149 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 2: charges of tax fraud and tobacco adulteration. That's adding water 150 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 2: to tobacco before sale. By the way, I had to look 151 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 2: that up. I was like, what was this guy allegedly 152 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 2: doing to his tobacco. These were charges that he was 153 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:56,439 Speaker 2: exonerated of a year and a half later, but by 154 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:58,680 Speaker 2: that point he was of course already dead. 155 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 3: Adding tobacco, I would think of normally watering down a 156 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 3: liquid to adulterate it. I could maybe tobacco gets soggy, 157 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 3: so you can like bulk up the weight by getting 158 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 3: water in it. I don't know, I guess though. 159 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 2: Holding the thumb on the scales one way or another. 160 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, but you're saying they found that he didn't do 161 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 3: it after they killed him. 162 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, after and pretty soon after they're like, actually 163 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 2: are bad on that one. A lot has was written 164 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 2: and has been written about how this was maybe not 165 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 2: a great move, because even in his short life that 166 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 2: was obviously cut short by execution, he did make a 167 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 2: number of contributions to the advancement of science. Now, speaking 168 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 2: of liquids, though, I have to throw in in one 169 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:46,199 Speaker 2: of our primary sources for this series diamonds in Early 170 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 2: History of the King of Gems by Jack Ogden. Ogden 171 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 2: points out that during the Renaissance, various philosophers believe that 172 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 2: diamonds must be some form of congealed juice or quote 173 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 2: most pure juice juice. So of what I was a 174 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 2: little unclear. 175 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 3: On that juice of carbon, juice of carb. 176 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 2: That gets us to where do diamonds come from. Naturally 177 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 2: occurring diamonds are formed under intense pressure and temperature deep 178 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 2: within the Earth and then brought to the surface via 179 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 2: volcanic action. And diamonds are found in three types of deposits. 180 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 2: First of all, you have kimberlight pipes. These are formed 181 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 2: by intrusions of magma into the Earth's crust, bringing in diamonds, 182 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 2: among other things, from the Earth's mantle. The pipes themselves 183 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 2: tend to be only one hundred million years old, while 184 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 2: the diamonds they bring up may be anywhere between like 185 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 2: one and three point three billion years old. And then 186 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 2: you also have alluvial gravels and glacial tills. So in 187 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 2: these diamonds are released by either fluvial or river based 188 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 2: or glacial erosion of the kimber light matrix, and then 189 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:57,679 Speaker 2: they're redeposited in rivers or in a glacial till. This 190 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 2: is the sediment moved by a glacier as it moves 191 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 2: over the course of time. 192 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 3: Right, So we need these mechanisms to explain diamonds being 193 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 3: brought near to the surface of the Earth because they 194 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 3: have to be formed way deep down in the Earth's mantle. 195 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 2: Or they used to be before Superman, of course, But 196 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 2: more truthfully, since around the nineteen fifties, we have been 197 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 2: able to make synthetic diamonds that are chemically and physically 198 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 2: identical to naturally occurring diamonds. But for the longest yeah, 199 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 2: diamonds had to be mined from the Earth. And while 200 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 2: diamonds occur naturally on every continent and have been mined 201 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 2: around the world historically, and we'll come back to this, 202 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 2: there was one place to gather your diamonds, and it 203 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 2: was India. M Yeah, Now I mentioned that I would 204 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 2: get into comic books a little bit, because the connection 205 00:11:57,679 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 2: here is that we should also mention that the word 206 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 2: diamonds and is actually linked directly to x Man Wolverine's 207 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 2: claws and skeleton, because I don't have to tell most 208 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 2: of you that Logan's retractable claws and bones are said 209 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:14,079 Speaker 2: to be coated with the fictional indestructible Sci fi metal 210 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 2: known as adamantium. Now, the authors and artists of Marvel 211 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 2: Comics did not invent the idea of adamantium. It apparently 212 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 2: pops up in earlier fictional works, a natural extrapolation of 213 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 2: the adjective adamantine, which means unyielding or unbreakable, related to 214 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 2: the word adamant as well, which this was all widely 215 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 2: used in pre Marvel fiction. And of course all of 216 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 2: this extends back to the ancient world as well, with 217 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 2: writings in Greek and Latin that utilize atom ass either 218 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:49,719 Speaker 2: Once again, figuratively or in reference to some sort of 219 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 2: legendary unbreakable stone or gym, such as in some tellings, 220 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 2: the substance used to construct the chains that bound Cerberus, 221 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:00,199 Speaker 2: the great three headed hound of Hades. 222 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, so this is worth flagging because it leads to 223 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 3: a confusion that could arise from some ancient sources. Because 224 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:12,680 Speaker 3: in some ancient sources people talk about something that seems 225 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 3: like it could be a diamond, but we're not necessarily 226 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 3: positive that's what they're referring to. And in some of 227 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 3: these cases, these Latin or Greek writers are using this 228 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 3: term adamas. The Latin word adamas derived from the Greek. Now, 229 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 3: I was also reading about this in Ogden in Diamonds 230 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 3: in Early History of the King of Gems, and Ogden 231 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 3: talks about how the English word diamond is derived from 232 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 3: this Latin word adamas, which in turn came from the Greek. 233 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 3: And there's an interesting etymology here. So in Greek the 234 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 3: word dama itself, dama meant something like conquer or tame. 235 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 3: Elsewhere I've read that it had the sense of break, 236 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 3: as in the way you would break a horse like 237 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 3: you would tame it. So with the negative prefix ah 238 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 3: in front of it. That means kind of like un 239 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:14,079 Speaker 3: ah dema ademas meant unconquerable, untameable, unbreakable, unalterable. But Ogden says, 240 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 3: in medieval European sources, the prefix ah starts to disappear 241 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 3: from this Latin term adomas, and then we're just left 242 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 3: with terms like damon or Damon's, which in English eventually 243 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 3: became diamond. But by losing the ah prefix ahead of it, 244 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 3: this would mean that according to Greek word logic, it's 245 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 3: sort of losing the un in unbreakable, so it's kind 246 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 3: of meaning tameable or breakable again. But of course that 247 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 3: meaning was lost at this point, just came to mean 248 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 3: the gem. But in its usage in ancient Greek and 249 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 3: Roman sources, the term adomas may sometimes refer to diamonds, 250 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 3: but it also clearly refers to other materials that were 251 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 3: considered especially hard or strong, and Ogden calls out things 252 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 3: like maybe maybe some sort of early proto steel or 253 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 3: special naturally occurring alloys and grains found alongside gold and 254 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 3: ore or other gems. 255 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 2: That's right, that's right. Now. To come back to Marvel, 256 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 2: I was wondering, because again, you know, Marvel's been around 257 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 2: long enough that there's so many characters and creatures that 258 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 2: everything's been done at least once. Surely. I was like, well, 259 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 2: there's got to be a character that has either diamond 260 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 2: claws or a diamond skeleton, and in fact, there does 261 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 2: seem to be such a creature. There is apparently an 262 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 2: alternate timeline where you have a fusion of two characters. 263 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 2: This apparently occurs throughout I think DC and Marvel both 264 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 2: get into this, where not only do you have variants 265 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 2: of different characters and different alternate realities, but you also 266 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 2: have fusions of different individuals. So there's one alternate timeline, 267 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 2: one alternate Earth or whatever, where you have a single 268 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 2: entity that is merg urged out of Emma Frost aka 269 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 2: the White Queen, who has I think this ability to 270 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 2: like shape shift into a diamond form that grants her 271 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 2: immunity and invulnerability, especially from like psychic attacks. And then Wolverine, 272 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 2: who are just talking about this single entity who ends 273 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 2: up looking like a really posh wolverine with blonde hair 274 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 2: and an eye patch. His name is Diamond Patch apparently, 275 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 2: or that is his code name, and he has claws 276 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 2: and presumably a skeleton made out of diamond, and if 277 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 2: he stabs you with his diamond clause, he can read 278 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 2: your mind. 279 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 3: Why is he called diamond patch? He does have an 280 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 3: eye patch. Is the eyepatch made of diamond? 281 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 2: Ah? 282 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 3: Maybe? 283 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, if you if your claws 284 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 2: are diamond, maybe you don't want to accessorize with diamonds 285 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 2: too much. I'm not sure. I'm not an expert on 286 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 2: diamond patch here. We'll have to hear from our more 287 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 2: devoted comic readers out there. But it does raise all 288 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 2: sorts of questions about what it would be like to 289 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:08,920 Speaker 2: have a skeleton made out of diamond. It doesn't sound 290 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 2: particularly great if you're going to potentially get into a 291 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 2: you know, some sort of a throwdown with the Hulk 292 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 2: or something. 293 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 3: I wonder if there's a plot line where he pounds 294 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 3: his claws into a powder and then feeds it as 295 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 3: poisoned to somebody. 296 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 2: I don't know, I would hope so, I mean, but 297 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 2: then I guess he has the healing factor too, So 298 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,360 Speaker 2: what does that mean? Does like his powderized bones then 299 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 2: reheal into a solid diamond once more? I'm not sure. 300 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 3: They really do do everything in comic books, don't they 301 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:37,920 Speaker 3: what you were just saying a minute ago, is right. 302 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,399 Speaker 3: Like anytime you imagine, I wonder if somebody's done this. 303 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:42,719 Speaker 3: There's like a comic book where somebody did that. 304 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's been done and it was it was 305 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:47,680 Speaker 2: maybe done decades ago, and it's been done a second time. 306 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,199 Speaker 2: They've revisited it. But that's one of the things I 307 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 2: love about diving into the world of comics. 308 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 3: There's so much variety, a world where all possible elevator 309 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:01,400 Speaker 3: pitches have been realized. That's right, he made of diamond. 310 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 2: All right, Well, at this point, let's turn our attention 311 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:10,400 Speaker 2: back to the real world and back specifically to India 312 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 2: and ancient India. 313 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 3: Again. 314 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 2: India is extremely important in the history of diamonds, as 315 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 2: Ogden points out in the book, until the sixteen hundreds 316 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 2: it was the most important, if not the only, source 317 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:27,360 Speaker 2: of diamonds in the Mediterranean, in European worlds, and Ogden 318 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 2: mentions has a lot to share about diamonds in this book. 319 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 2: This is a terrific book. Highly recommend it. At one 320 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 2: point he mentions some of the protective aspects of the 321 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 2: diamond that you see appearing in Indian lore at different 322 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 2: points that they may have provided protection against quote serpents, tigers, 323 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 2: and thieves. That one gave me a lot of pause there, 324 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,120 Speaker 2: because I'm trying to imagine, first of all, our diamond's 325 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 2: going to protect you from thieves. That doesn't seem like 326 00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 2: a very logical idea tigers. That it made me think about, well, okay, 327 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 2: a tiger is a you know, an ambush predator that 328 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 2: wants to make sure it has the most advantageous attack conditions. 329 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,920 Speaker 2: And you and I have seen, you know, some compelling 330 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:18,159 Speaker 2: evidence about, say, weighing ways to deter a tiger attack 331 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 2: by having like a fake eyes on the back of 332 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:22,399 Speaker 2: your head and so forth, wearing like a mask on 333 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 2: the back of your head, and to whatever extent that 334 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 2: is useful or not. You could think, well, okay, a 335 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 2: diamond glitters. Maybe a diamond does something optical that in 336 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:34,919 Speaker 2: some way might make a tiger think twice about attacking you. 337 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:39,120 Speaker 3: I'm not sure that's interesting. Yeah, I wonder the sparkling 338 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 3: could function kind of like eye spots or just in 339 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 3: some other way could disrupt a tiger an ambush predator 340 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:48,360 Speaker 3: since that attack is now appropriate. 341 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so I don't know. I didn't look too 342 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:55,640 Speaker 2: hard into that, but it came to mind. Ogden also 343 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 2: mentions that that for the most part, these diamonds were 344 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 2: for me and only, and they were thought to make 345 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:06,440 Speaker 2: women quote sterile and unhappy. And he points out that 346 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 2: while this notion runs against the general modern marketing trend 347 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 2: with diamonds, which has European roots, you know, for the longest, 348 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 2: the durable diamond was considered the perfect gem to symbolize 349 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 2: the masculine might of kings. Ah. 350 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 3: Okay, So it's like, oh, because the diamond is invincible, 351 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,959 Speaker 3: it makes people think that I'm invincible, I'm so strong, 352 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 3: I'm so tough. 353 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 2: Yes, just ignore the part about how you can smash 354 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 2: it with a hammer, and it just becomes a million almost. 355 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 2: It almost becomes almost invisible when you break it. Right now, 356 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 2: A quick note on jim stones in general, because we 357 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,400 Speaker 2: get into this whole half like gems and then diamonds. 358 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:48,680 Speaker 2: I decided to look this up in Brian M. Fagan's 359 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 2: seventy Great Inventions of the Ancient World. Guess who has 360 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 2: co author is in the section on gemstones. It's Jack Ogden. 361 00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 2: Oh okay, so once more, at least partially said Ogden. Here, 362 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,680 Speaker 2: gems have factored into human jewelry since the earliest times, 363 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 2: though the setting of colored stones which were the preference 364 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:13,639 Speaker 2: for the longest, with the move toward transparent gemstones not 365 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 2: occurring un till the first millennium BC with the rise 366 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 2: of the Persian Empire. The setting of colored stones was 367 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 2: only possible once a fairly sophisticated metal working industry was established. 368 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,679 Speaker 2: So they point out that for the longest, colored stones 369 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 2: were used as quote, blocks of pigment, and this would 370 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:36,440 Speaker 2: be inlaid in a metal form. The stones were usually 371 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 2: cut to fit a particular setting, and it wasn't until 372 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,399 Speaker 2: later that the reverse would become the fad. 373 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 3: Oh okay, So if I'm understanding this right, it would 374 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:47,920 Speaker 3: mean like that originally gems were more like just sort 375 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 3: of a tool. They were one piece of artistic filler 376 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 3: to fill out whatever it is you're designing. But later 377 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 3: on they would come to be more of the focus 378 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 3: and whatever you're designing would be based around the gym 379 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:01,199 Speaker 3: inn it correct. 380 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's the point I was taking from all 381 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,919 Speaker 2: of this. And in addition to the rise of the 382 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 2: Persian Empire, you also had other factors influencing the shift 383 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 2: towards transparent gemstones. I mean, not that you completely abandoned 384 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:16,159 Speaker 2: color gyms, but like sort of the opening of the 385 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 2: mind to the idea that, hey, these are beautiful. As well, 386 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 2: you have things like the conquest of Alexander the Great, 387 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 2: which we'll come back to, and a number of other 388 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 2: factors that Ogden gets into more depth about in the book, 389 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 2: you know, with various trade routes opening up and so forth. Now, 390 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,439 Speaker 2: according to Ogden, the earliest known use of diamonds in 391 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 2: jewelry and you know, of course enormous caveat with all this. 392 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,159 Speaker 2: You know, this is based on surviving written records, This 393 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 2: is based on surviving artifacts and so forth. The earliest 394 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 2: known use of diamonds and jewelry dates back to after 395 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 2: three twenty five BCE in northern India and Afghanistan, following 396 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 2: Alexander the Great's military conquest in this area, and the 397 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,119 Speaker 2: earliest diamond rings come from this region as well. Again, 398 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,159 Speaker 2: going we have to go by to the caveat about 399 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 2: metallurgy and metal working having to reach a certain point 400 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,119 Speaker 2: before you could really make much in the way of 401 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 2: diamond rings and so forth. But the earliest diamond rings 402 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:13,680 Speaker 2: come from this region as well. And this all leads 403 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 2: to an influx of diamonds and diamond lore into the 404 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 2: Mediterranean world, though their initial use in the Mediterranean region 405 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 2: was for drilling and engraving other gems. So this touches 406 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,879 Speaker 2: on a topic that Ogden considers at length. You know, 407 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,199 Speaker 2: when do diamonds start becoming more than stones to be 408 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 2: used in cutting gems, When do they become gems themselves? 409 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,200 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, that's an interesting question, and I would wonder 410 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 3: if it has anything like what is the economic intersection 411 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 3: between the value of a gym as a decorative item 412 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,440 Speaker 3: or something that's prized just for its own sake versus 413 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 3: the value of a gym that it has specific utility 414 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,360 Speaker 3: as a tool, because as we know about the diamond 415 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,400 Speaker 3: being the hardest of all these gems, as a real utility, 416 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,640 Speaker 3: it has a real direct use value. 417 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:07,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean again, like not all forms of 418 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 2: carbon have the same value other forms of carbon. You 419 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 2: can't bring them into a diamond dealer and be like, hey, 420 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 2: how much for this lump of carbon? How much for me? 421 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 2: I'm carbon? What's the going rate now? And then likewise, 422 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:26,120 Speaker 2: not all forms of crystal are going to command vast 423 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 2: sums of money either, So Ogden points out that early 424 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 2: written evidence for diamonds as gems again considered gems is 425 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 2: a you can be found in a Northern Indian text, 426 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 2: often dated with some disagreement to three hundred BCE. Other 427 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,159 Speaker 2: dating of the text may push the reference to the 428 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,360 Speaker 2: second millennium BCE, or possibly to the fourth century CE. 429 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 2: The text is called the Athha Sastra or the Lesson 430 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 2: of Profit, and it points out a few interesting ideas 431 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,880 Speaker 2: of the time period, again depending on exactly when this 432 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 2: would have been, but a few of the ideas that 433 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 2: were put forth regarding the value of a diamond. Ogden writes, 434 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 2: quote the list of diamond colors given in the Athisostra 435 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:16,920 Speaker 2: include cat's eye, Sirisa flower, cow's urine, cows fat, clear crystal, 436 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,440 Speaker 2: mulatti flower, and then adds any other gem color which 437 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 2: is little help to us. 438 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 3: Cows urine. 439 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's a humorous book as well. It's again 440 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 2: again very fun read. But also other aspects of the 441 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,639 Speaker 2: diamond mentioned this text. It's stressed that large, heavy, and 442 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 2: hard diamonds are best. The best diamonds have symmetrical points. 443 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 2: The best diamonds can scratch a vessel, and not only 444 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 2: do they sparkle, but they spin like a top. These 445 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 2: are the various not on their own obviously, but you know, 446 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,640 Speaker 2: win wind spun by the human looking at them. These 447 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 2: are all aspects of a suitable diamond, ones that are 448 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 2: true gems and not something that you need to just 449 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 2: break down and use for your gym working and so forth. 450 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 3: That is interesting, And I wonder where criteria like this 451 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 3: are originally derived from. I guess some of it is 452 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 3: just like intuitive preferences about anything that, like, you know, 453 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:19,879 Speaker 3: bigger is better, heavier is better. I guess a harder 454 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,119 Speaker 3: diamond or a harder thing called a diamond is going 455 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,639 Speaker 3: to be more durable, it will last longer. But I wonder, 456 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 3: like it spins like a top, why is that preferred? 457 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I guess it just comes down to 458 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 2: just the the you know, the structural completeness of the thing, 459 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 2: in the in the symmetry of the thing, right, but 460 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,120 Speaker 2: in general, Yeah, it also you can't help but think 461 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 2: about the idea of like just branding. Like someone's like, hey, 462 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 2: we got to move some diamonds here, we got to 463 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,119 Speaker 2: move something. Why don't we start selling these diamonds? So 464 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,160 Speaker 2: let's just start start talking about just how pretty these 465 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,680 Speaker 2: things are and how how you know? Then figure out 466 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,119 Speaker 2: like what is the what are the best candidates to 467 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 2: push forward? Is the new King of Gems. Now at 468 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 2: this point I thought we'd talked about one of the 469 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 2: most wonderful, uh collection of falsehoods concerning the origin of 470 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:26,119 Speaker 2: diamonds and the gathering of diamonds, and that is, of course, 471 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 2: the Valley of the Gems. 472 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 3: I think this is where we come back to Alexander 473 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 3: the Great. 474 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 2: That's right, Alexander the Great does factor into all of this. 475 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:40,119 Speaker 2: This myth is heavily associated with him. But but also 476 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,719 Speaker 2: to be clear, it seems to predate him and also 477 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 2: would be retold many more times in various formats, involving 478 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 2: Marco Polo. It also pops up as a story about 479 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 2: about the the hero Sinbad the Sailor. So it isn't 480 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:00,919 Speaker 2: just an Alexander the Great thing, but he becomes associated 481 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 2: with the story. 482 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:02,880 Speaker 3: Okay, what's the story? 483 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:08,639 Speaker 2: Okay? So, and it mainly becomes associated with Alexander the 484 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 2: Great through the writings of the Greek philosopher Theophrastus, who 485 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 2: lived three seventy two more or less to around two 486 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,159 Speaker 2: eighty seven BCE. Who wrote of the valley in his 487 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:25,199 Speaker 2: work De Lapidibus, or on Gems, and this is the 488 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,360 Speaker 2: one that throws Alexander the Great into the story, makes 489 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 2: him the hero of the tale, and also seemingly canonizes 490 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 2: the involvement of snakes within the story, a story that, 491 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 2: according to Ogden, seems to have pre existed this writing 492 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 2: by many centuries as a folk narrative about this mystical 493 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 2: valley of the Gems. However, Ogden also notes it wouldn't 494 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 2: really become like cemented as like part of the quote 495 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 2: romance of Alexander till the nineteenth century. Right, So, Ogden 496 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 2: tees is a part the different versions of the myth. 497 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 2: But it basically goes down like this. Okay, there's a 498 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 2: valley out there in the wilds of India, and guess what, 499 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 2: It's full of diamonds. Now, Joe, wouldn't you like to 500 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 2: get into that that valley and get those diamonds. 501 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 3: I want to get in that valley like a ballpit, 502 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 3: just swim around in it, Scrooge, Scrooge mcducket. 503 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 2: Okay, well, that that's understandable. They are diamonds, after all. 504 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 2: But here's the thing. Uh, these diamonds are inaccessible by 505 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 2: normal means, due either to the terrifying cliffs, but also 506 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 2: because there's there's there are even worse things down there. 507 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 2: There are a whole bunch of snakes, venomous snakes, in 508 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 2: some cases, giant venomous snakes, and you don't want to 509 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 2: mess with those. Do you still want the diamonds. 510 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 3: Let's assume that I am absolutely mad with greed, so yes, okay. 511 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 2: In order to get these diamonds out, here's what you 512 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 2: need to do. First. You need to get yourself some meat, 513 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 2: a bunch of big strips of meat, giant strips of meat, 514 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 2: as much meat as you can get together, okay, all right, 515 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 2: and then you're gonna throw that meat down into the pit, 516 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 2: down into the valley. 517 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 3: Do you stand on top of the cliffs and throw 518 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 3: it down. 519 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:07,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you'd want to throw it down from above. 520 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 2: You don't want to get down there because that's where 521 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 2: the snakes are. So throw that meat into the into 522 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 2: the valley, into the pit, because guess what those diamonds 523 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 2: are just laying about down there on the surface, on 524 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 2: the floor of the pit, on the floor of the valley. 525 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 2: And if you throw the meat down you know what's 526 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 2: going to happen. The diamonds are going to stick to 527 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 2: the meat. 528 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 3: Perfect. 529 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 2: This is raw meat, by the way, is it's not cooked? 530 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 2: Don't You don't want to throw like well done meat 531 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 2: into the valley of gems. 532 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 3: No, it'll be stickier if it's raw. 533 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. Now at this point you're wondering, Okay, I want 534 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 2: the diamonds, but now I just spend all this money 535 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 2: on meat. I just literally threw it away. Well, this 536 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 2: is where the birds come in. The birds are going 537 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 2: to swoop down and they're kind of collect that meat, 538 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 2: that free meal, from the bottom of the valley and 539 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 2: bring it back up to the top of the cliffs 540 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 2: to eat. That meat, I will remind you still has 541 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 2: diamonds stuck to it all over brilliant. Now, at this point, 542 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 2: many of the tellings indicate that what you need to 543 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 2: do is scare the birds away from that meat long 544 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 2: enough to peel off all the diamonds, and then you're 545 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 2: gonna leave the meat. The birds will leave you alone 546 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 2: at that point. They don't actually want the diamonds, they 547 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 2: want the meat. And then once you have the diamonds, 548 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 2: you can run off and do what you will with them. 549 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 3: I love this scheme. It's a diamond heist to beat 550 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 3: them all. 551 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 2: There are also versions of the story in which you 552 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 2: have to kill the birds to get the diamonds out 553 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 2: of their stomach, but really, I mean, who wants to 554 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 2: go through with that? It seems much easier to just 555 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 2: scare them away long enough to get the diamonds off 556 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 2: the meat and then cash in. Interestingly, in cases in 557 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 2: retellings of the story where snakes are involved, this is 558 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 2: also sometimes used to explain why you should never put 559 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 2: diamonds in your mouth because there may be lingering snake venom, 560 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 2: and in some way like that snake venom never completely 561 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 2: leaves the diamonds, and therefore to eat them would be 562 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 2: to invite death. 563 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 3: Oh okay, so this would be a different explanation of 564 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 3: the supposedly lethal mechanism of the diamonds, because if you 565 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 3: didn't listen to the last episode, the main explanation given 566 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 3: by at least by Benvenuto Chillini was that the diamond 567 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,960 Speaker 3: it's not actually chemically poisonous. It's that pounded up diamonds 568 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 3: have all these little sharp edges in them, and because 569 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 3: they're so hard, nothing can like dull their edges. They 570 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 3: will just go down into your guts and end up 571 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 3: cutting you up from the inside. But this would be 572 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 3: a totally different folk logic for why they are allegedly poisonous. 573 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 3: They have snake venom on them. 574 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 2: That's right now. In the second Voyage of Sindbad, he 575 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 2: actually escapes from the pit by strapping one of the 576 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 2: pieces of meat to his own back. This telling involves 577 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 2: the giant mythic rock bird, and the snakes are also 578 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 2: giants that swallow elephants. Diamonds are also present. 579 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 3: Is Sinbad trying to get the diamonds or are they 580 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 3: just incidental? 581 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 2: He is mainly just trying to escape at this point, 582 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 2: so it's just kind of a clever escape scheme, I believe. 583 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,400 Speaker 2: But you know, the voyages of Sindbad and so forth, 584 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 2: I feel like those are stories I need to properly revisit. 585 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 2: Maybe we can find a way to explore them in 586 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 2: a future episode. But again, this story is widely told 587 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 2: and retold plenty of The Elder of course, also repeats 588 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 2: the myth at some point. But at the end of it, 589 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 2: I was wondering, like, well, what does it mean? Like, 590 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:25,280 Speaker 2: where does the story come from? 591 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 3: You? 592 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,240 Speaker 2: Know, we will get into another story later on, another 593 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 2: seemingly fantastical bit of folklore and myth that involves sticky 594 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 2: things and diamonds. So I was wondering if that would 595 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 2: have anything to do with it, but I ended up 596 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 2: turning to an article by S. Tolanski from nineteen sixty 597 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 2: one titled some Folklore in History of diamond and the 598 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 2: author here speculates that the story may have been originally 599 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 2: circulated in some of its earliest forms by none other 600 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 2: than Indian diamond miners to cover up the true source 601 00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 2: of their lucrative trade, because again, diamonds are not from 602 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 2: a valley, They're not just littering on the ground in 603 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 2: a in a place haunted by venomous snakes. You know, 604 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,360 Speaker 2: their their mind from specific locations. You know, we alluded 605 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:13,239 Speaker 2: to the the the sources earlier. So perhaps this is 606 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:16,840 Speaker 2: a bit of misinformation that was popularized in order to 607 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 2: throw thieves and would be minors off the scent. But 608 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:25,360 Speaker 2: it also raises the question like, even in ancient times, 609 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 2: it feels like someone's you know, BS sensor would go 610 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 2: off at some point and they might realize, you know, 611 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 2: I don't think that's actually where diamonds come from, and 612 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 2: I know they don't want me to know where they 613 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,680 Speaker 2: come from, but it's something else, and I'm going to 614 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:46,799 Speaker 2: get to the bottom of it. So so anyway that 615 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:52,360 Speaker 2: that seems like one potentially valid hypothesis, But the author 616 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 2: here also mentions another possibility, something that may or may 617 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 2: not tie into it. He mentions something that has been 618 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 2: observed in modern South Africa. He wrote quote four. In 619 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 2: South Africa, where the deep dug mines have heaped around 620 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,719 Speaker 2: them great masses of waste worked out ores. It is 621 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:16,319 Speaker 2: known locally that the crops of fowls which wander and 622 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:21,360 Speaker 2: peck over this land frequently contain small diamonds. The chickens 623 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,759 Speaker 2: seem to have an eye for the shining pebbles, and 624 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,239 Speaker 2: a single fowl has been known to have as much 625 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 2: as a total of five carrot weight of small diamond 626 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:30,760 Speaker 2: within its crop. 627 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,279 Speaker 3: Oh okay, so the crop, of course is it's part 628 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 3: of the chicken's digestive system, which, if I recall correctly, 629 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,920 Speaker 3: is not the stomach. It's sort of like a little 630 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,799 Speaker 3: side pouch. It's got like you know, on the way 631 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,120 Speaker 3: to the rest of the digestive system. The chicken can 632 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 3: store stuff in its crop for a while. 633 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 2: And so the idea here would seem that like, okay, 634 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,759 Speaker 2: this would not one hundred percent explain the idea. But 635 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 2: if something like this had been observed in ancient times, 636 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:03,839 Speaker 2: perhaps it might have influenced the various myth cycles that 637 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,640 Speaker 2: spun out of it. And therefore that's why you have 638 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,319 Speaker 2: birds and giant birds and so forth involved in it. 639 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 2: In some cases you have the birds being killed and 640 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,319 Speaker 2: then opened up, and in other cases it's just like 641 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,920 Speaker 2: we'll get the diamonds off the meat before the birds 642 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 2: eat it. That's how diamonds wind up in birds. 643 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,080 Speaker 3: After all, that's an interesting possibility. 644 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 2: Now, another interesting idea that I that I ended up 645 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:29,280 Speaker 2: looking at here concerning the diamond and how the diamond 646 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:33,280 Speaker 2: is utilized as an idea, as a metaphor and so forth, 647 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 2: and particularly in parts of India, is the idea of 648 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:43,359 Speaker 2: the vodra. So in Hindu iconography you'll frequently encounter the 649 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 2: symbol and legendary ritual weapon of the vadra. You'll recognize 650 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,960 Speaker 2: it as appearing almost like a claud talon, with each 651 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,799 Speaker 2: appendage curving out and then touching at the tips, and 652 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,400 Speaker 2: the vodra maybe three four or even five pronged, but 653 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 2: it's not a The finished symbol or artifact may resemble 654 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:06,799 Speaker 2: a closed lotus blossom. It is especially common in the 655 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:11,759 Speaker 2: Tibetan Vadriyana school of Buddhism, and it can be translated 656 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 2: as thunder vehicle, for indeed, the vadra is in many 657 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 2: ways a thunderbolt, a divine weapon, and also the metaphoric 658 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 2: striking of enlightenment. It cleaves through ignorance like lightning. Indeed, 659 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,880 Speaker 2: in Hindu mythology, the vadra is the weapon of Indra, 660 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,680 Speaker 2: king of the Devas, and a god of the sky. 661 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:34,520 Speaker 2: That may be, I think reasonably compared to other deity traditions, 662 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,160 Speaker 2: such as that of Zeus or that of Odin in 663 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:43,080 Speaker 2: Norse mythology. But vodra also can apparently be translated as diamond, 664 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,719 Speaker 2: for the vodra is indestructible, and there is indeed a 665 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,319 Speaker 2: sense of a diamond to the shape of the thing 666 00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:53,080 Speaker 2: as well. Sometimes the vodra appears like a club or 667 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:57,200 Speaker 2: a scepter with a long handle, other times a ritualistic 668 00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 2: item with two vadras, one on either end of the handle. 669 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,319 Speaker 2: And you'll also find vadra's on the handles of a 670 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,719 Speaker 2: symbolic bell, and indeed you also find it as a 671 00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 2: motif on the pommels and or the hilts of highly 672 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:14,880 Speaker 2: decorative swords. So I found this interesting as well, this 673 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:19,760 Speaker 2: idea of of this thing going from like indestructible bolt 674 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:25,120 Speaker 2: of enlightenment to a weapon of war, but involving like 675 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:29,000 Speaker 2: aspects of thunder and lightning and also aspects of the diamond. 676 00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 2: I should also add that in Mahayana Buddhism there's also 677 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,760 Speaker 2: an important sutra that is generally referred to in English 678 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:37,920 Speaker 2: as the Diamond Sutra. 679 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,200 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, this seems to connect to the things that 680 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 3: have come up in multiple ways, especially like the idea 681 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:48,880 Speaker 3: of a diamond being a sort of a symbol of 682 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,520 Speaker 3: the power of kings. Here if there is a diamond 683 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:56,400 Speaker 3: association with the the mythical weapon of Indra. 684 00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,759 Speaker 2: That's right, yeah, so yeah. And also I love that 685 00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 2: in this we get this more spiritual idea of the 686 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:06,960 Speaker 2: diamond as opposed to certainly the sort of the modern, 687 00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:11,160 Speaker 2: you know, western popular idea of the diamond. That's very y. 688 00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:13,800 Speaker 2: I guess it does get aligned with ideas of love, 689 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:16,279 Speaker 2: but I don't know, I don't get a very spiritual 690 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,320 Speaker 2: idea of the diamond. When I'm watching a diamond commercial 691 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:22,080 Speaker 2: on television, like, it doesn't seem like it's clearly not 692 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:26,120 Speaker 2: something that's coming from from the realm of the gods. 693 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 2: It's something that's coming from the diamond store across town. 694 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,040 Speaker 3: Think how much more interesting those commercials would be if 695 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,919 Speaker 3: they did the Valley of Gems with the snake and 696 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,839 Speaker 3: the meat. You had to get the meat in order 697 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,000 Speaker 3: to get the diamond. That's part of the process. 698 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:42,799 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I can see it now. They can still 699 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:46,560 Speaker 2: have the you know, the excellent music, the high production values. 700 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:50,120 Speaker 2: But let's get some diamond studded meat in the game. 701 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,840 Speaker 2: Let's get some giant birds, Let's get some snakes. 702 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:55,880 Speaker 3: There's a lot of fun to be I want to 703 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,560 Speaker 3: direct these commercials. Valentine's Day is coming up. You see 704 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,680 Speaker 3: a say, like a husband going up to the cliff side. 705 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,480 Speaker 3: He's got the meat. It's like, you know, just dripping 706 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:07,719 Speaker 3: all over his back. I guess he's got to have 707 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:11,080 Speaker 3: something to fight the birds with. Later. It's all coming 708 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:11,920 Speaker 3: together in my mind. 709 00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:16,240 Speaker 2: Oh, man, steak restaurants get in on this. This is great, 710 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,560 Speaker 2: great advertising for your Valentine's Day meals as well. Your 711 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,360 Speaker 2: Validaine's Day specials, you know, get people into that steak 712 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,400 Speaker 2: dinner with the diamonds. Have the diamond stuck to the steak. 713 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:31,640 Speaker 3: Oh, we call this a binvenudo special. I felt it 714 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:33,280 Speaker 3: crash beneath my teeth. 715 00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:36,880 Speaker 2: All right, on that note, we're gonna ahead and close 716 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:38,759 Speaker 2: out those episode, but we will be back with a 717 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,600 Speaker 2: with at least a third Diamond episode because all there's 718 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:43,759 Speaker 2: more stuff we didn't even have time for. There's more 719 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 2: stuff involving various bodily fluids. There's we'll definitely get into 720 00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:55,320 Speaker 2: some more myths. We'll get into some other topics, cosmic, spiritual. 721 00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:55,319 Speaker 3: You name it. 722 00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,719 Speaker 2: We will return to it in the next episode. In 723 00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,319 Speaker 2: the meantime, Yeah, we'd love to hear from all of you. 724 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:03,640 Speaker 2: We have a couple of episodes on diamonds already. You 725 00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,839 Speaker 2: might have some thoughts, some feedback on anything we've discussed here. 726 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:10,160 Speaker 2: Maybe you're a diamond fan and maybe you hate diamonds. 727 00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:12,160 Speaker 2: Maybe you have some sort of cultural connection with diamonds. 728 00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:16,080 Speaker 2: Maybe you yourself work with diamonds. Write in we'd love 729 00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:18,800 Speaker 2: to hear from you. Just a reminder that core episodes 730 00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,280 Speaker 2: of stuff to blow your mind publish on Tuesdays and Thursdays, 731 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:23,840 Speaker 2: and the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast feed short 732 00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,480 Speaker 2: forum episodes go out on Wednesday, listener mail on Mondays, 733 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:28,680 Speaker 2: and on Fridays. We set aside most serious concerns to 734 00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:31,440 Speaker 2: just talk about a weird movie on Weird House Cinema. 735 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:35,800 Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway. 736 00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:37,799 Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us 737 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,400 Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest 738 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:42,399 Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or just to say hello, 739 00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,480 Speaker 3: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow 740 00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:54,000 Speaker 3: your Mind dot com. 741 00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:57,040 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For 742 00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,919 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 743 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:16,400 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.