1
00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:07,520
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to Stuff

2
00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:08,960
Speaker 1: I Ever told you, a production by Hurry to You,

3
00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:22,799
Speaker 1: and today we are so excited to be joined by

4
00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:26,240
Speaker 1: Andy Mitchell and Sabrina Colberg, the host of the podcast

5
00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:29,120
Speaker 1: pop Culture Moms. Thank you so much for coming.

6
00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,440
Speaker 2: On, Thank you, thank you for having us.

7
00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:36,040
Speaker 1: Yes, we're very excited to have this conversation because given

8
00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:38,479
Speaker 1: the nature of our show, we didn't talk about there's

9
00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,040
Speaker 1: a lot of overlap and things that I think that

10
00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,720
Speaker 1: we both discussed. But before we get into that, can

11
00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:50,440
Speaker 1: you please tell our audience more about yourselves. Introduce yourselves.

12
00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,760
Speaker 2: Sure, I'm an author of a memoir and a cookbook.

13
00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:58,720
Speaker 2: But now I just I just I just podcast with

14
00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:02,840
Speaker 2: my best friend Sabrina, and we met twenty years ago

15
00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:07,880
Speaker 2: and started this like really just intense best friendship that

16
00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:12,000
Speaker 2: has lasted us where we're talking on the phone daily,

17
00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:14,560
Speaker 2: which is I think why we decided we had to

18
00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:16,640
Speaker 2: let's start a podcast. If we're going to be using

19
00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:21,880
Speaker 2: the airtime, let's just get someone recording this. And so, yeah,

20
00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:24,240
Speaker 2: so I'm Andy and this is my best friend Sabrina.

21
00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:25,360
Speaker 2: Sav you take it over.

22
00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:30,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm Sabrina Kolberg. I am a producer at Good

23
00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:35,240
Speaker 3: Morning America and now a podcaster with Andy for Pop

24
00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:37,679
Speaker 3: Culture Moms from ABC Audio.

25
00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:41,160
Speaker 2: And we are pop culture obsessed.

26
00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:45,119
Speaker 3: And I have a three and a five year old,

27
00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,960
Speaker 3: so I'm also really in the trenches of motherhood. So

28
00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:54,400
Speaker 3: pop Culture Moms was kind of the perfect combination of

29
00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:58,760
Speaker 3: our interests. We talk all about moms and pop culture

30
00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,440
Speaker 3: and what we can learn from them while we're parenting.

31
00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:04,720
Speaker 1: And I am very, very excited. We love talking about

32
00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:08,440
Speaker 1: pop culture here. Samantha and I huge nerds about that,

33
00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:09,600
Speaker 1: so I can't wait to get into that.

34
00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:13,480
Speaker 2: But how did the two of you meet college? We're all,

35
00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:15,720
Speaker 2: we're all the beautiful love stories start.

36
00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:22,959
Speaker 3: Yeah, we lived on the same floor of a dorm

37
00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:27,000
Speaker 3: our freshman year of college. And I want to say

38
00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:28,840
Speaker 3: we met the first night, but maybe it was the

39
00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:33,320
Speaker 3: second night. I'm not really sure. But we met pretty

40
00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:38,480
Speaker 3: immediately and we became best friends, you know, as soon

41
00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:39,040
Speaker 3: as we met.

42
00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:42,200
Speaker 2: Basically, we had a trundle. We had an extra bed,

43
00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:45,520
Speaker 2: like my roommate is also my stepsister, and we had

44
00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:49,760
Speaker 2: a trundle in our small, small dorm room instead of

45
00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,760
Speaker 2: just basically moved right in and she only loves like

46
00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:55,359
Speaker 2: five doors down, so it was not necessary, but we

47
00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,400
Speaker 2: were watching a lot of TV, so we needed to

48
00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:00,800
Speaker 2: just be able to lay down and watch with us.

49
00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:09,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, that I totally get that. So through that

50
00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,200
Speaker 1: you had this love of entertainment, you said that you're

51
00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:16,280
Speaker 1: in the trenches of like momhood. Can you tell us

52
00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:21,799
Speaker 1: about where this podcast idea came from? When did that

53
00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:22,560
Speaker 1: become a thing?

54
00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:23,640
Speaker 2: Yeah?

55
00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:28,200
Speaker 3: So we spoke on the phone pretty much every day

56
00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:33,280
Speaker 3: of our adult lives, but especially when we both had children.

57
00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,080
Speaker 3: Andy had her children just a little bit before me,

58
00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,120
Speaker 3: so mineor three and five, hers are four and six,

59
00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:43,120
Speaker 3: and I was on maternity leave and we were in

60
00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:48,119
Speaker 3: the pandemic, and I would just call Andy every day

61
00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:52,880
Speaker 3: and talk to her about, you know, everything, but like

62
00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:57,320
Speaker 3: I would need, yeah, I would need advice on what

63
00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:00,200
Speaker 3: to do because her children were a little bit older.

64
00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:02,400
Speaker 3: But then I would also just want to talk about

65
00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:05,800
Speaker 3: whatever TV show I talked, you know, was watching the

66
00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:09,280
Speaker 3: night before, and we would just go on and on.

67
00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:12,200
Speaker 2: And Andy had.

68
00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:16,160
Speaker 3: The idea that we should you know, be recording and

69
00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,560
Speaker 3: sending it out to the masses, and we.

70
00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:20,600
Speaker 2: Just thought it was the perfect topic.

71
00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:26,040
Speaker 3: Like we love the women that we see on television

72
00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,360
Speaker 3: who are playing moms, and we're so interested in that,

73
00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:33,280
Speaker 3: and it's just a funny you know, we're not parenting experts,

74
00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,360
Speaker 3: and we don't want to pretend to be parenting experts.

75
00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:39,400
Speaker 3: We don't want to be giving anyone advice, but it

76
00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,480
Speaker 3: is funny to talk about like Lucille Bluth and what

77
00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:45,320
Speaker 3: she's good at as a mom and what she's not

78
00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:47,560
Speaker 3: good at as a mom, And it's just a funny

79
00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:48,760
Speaker 3: way to look at parenthood.

80
00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:53,839
Speaker 1: Oh yes, we've had a lot of episodes about depictions

81
00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:56,200
Speaker 1: of moms, so I can't wait to pick your brains

82
00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:01,560
Speaker 1: about that. But one of the things before, before we

83
00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:07,159
Speaker 1: get into that, is did you like you're having these

84
00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:11,240
Speaker 1: conversations and for like younger listeners, I used to call

85
00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:14,680
Speaker 1: my best friend on the phone. We would watch X

86
00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:19,159
Speaker 1: files together from a distance, and we would like be like, oh,

87
00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:22,880
Speaker 1: let's get into this. But like those those things of

88
00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:28,120
Speaker 1: seeing something in entertainment and sharing that and in this

89
00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:34,680
Speaker 1: case being moms and kind of picking apart what you're

90
00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:40,039
Speaker 1: seeing in entertainment versus the reality of your experience. Was

91
00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:45,680
Speaker 1: that something that you found was you've got this stress

92
00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:47,880
Speaker 1: going on in your life and this was like, okay,

93
00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:52,960
Speaker 1: we can discuss and like have this release almost.

94
00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's definitely. It's all of the things

95
00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:59,160
Speaker 2: that like, you know, art does for us that like,

96
00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:03,440
Speaker 2: I think we liked. I think especially when we first

97
00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:05,640
Speaker 2: thought of this idea a couple of years ago. You know,

98
00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,000
Speaker 2: our kids were very little, and so we're really like

99
00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:10,880
Speaker 2: in the trenches and like a lot of life with

100
00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:13,720
Speaker 2: very young kids. There's a ton of joy, no doubt,

101
00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:18,320
Speaker 2: but it's it's a lot of hard, mundane days that

102
00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,719
Speaker 2: are long and sometimes grueling and repetitive. And so I

103
00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,719
Speaker 2: think like you look forward to your shows that you

104
00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:26,960
Speaker 2: have or like while you're feeding a baby, like you're

105
00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,239
Speaker 2: watching a show, maybe you're watching them in the middle

106
00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:30,880
Speaker 2: of the night when you wake up to be with

107
00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,400
Speaker 2: the baby. So it's I think that we like the

108
00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:38,680
Speaker 2: escapist nature of watching movies and TV. But then also

109
00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:42,040
Speaker 2: like it feels nice when you watch something and it

110
00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:45,640
Speaker 2: resonates and makes you feel less alone, I mean, for sure.

111
00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:51,320
Speaker 2: And thirdly, it's like there's something that happens. It says

112
00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:54,480
Speaker 2: a lot the judgments that we have about these depictions

113
00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:56,720
Speaker 2: of women, like whether we like them or don't like them.

114
00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:00,200
Speaker 2: It's like a very reflective of you know, who we

115
00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,720
Speaker 2: are or aren't or wish we were, or hate about ourselves.

116
00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:06,640
Speaker 2: And so I think it's what we've found is that

117
00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:11,520
Speaker 2: talking about like a Lucille Bluth is more illuminating sometimes

118
00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,840
Speaker 2: than talking to you about your mom, because you feel

119
00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:16,880
Speaker 2: freer with the buffer of like, we're talking about this

120
00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,840
Speaker 2: fictional character, and it just exposes I think a lot

121
00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:24,400
Speaker 2: of what we struggle with or aspire to be. You know, yeah,

122
00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:24,840
Speaker 2: it's a.

123
00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:29,440
Speaker 3: Little bit safer to have a judgment of a person

124
00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:33,040
Speaker 3: who's not real. We don't really want to judge a

125
00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:36,240
Speaker 3: mother who's trying her hardest and doing her best, and

126
00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:40,000
Speaker 3: we don't want to say like, oh, she sucks, but

127
00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:43,440
Speaker 3: we can say, like, Lucille Bluth kind of sucks sometimes,

128
00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:46,800
Speaker 3: but also she's really funny. And it's just it's an

129
00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:49,640
Speaker 3: easier way to look at the way people are parenting

130
00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:53,440
Speaker 3: and talk about it without a judgment or without being

131
00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,360
Speaker 3: cruel or not understanding people.

132
00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,360
Speaker 1: I feel that's so hard I connect. I can talk

133
00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:04,160
Speaker 1: about fictional characters way easier than I can.

134
00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,760
Speaker 2: Talk about we have such strong judgments about them.

135
00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:12,640
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah, absolutely, And so to be clear, Samantha

136
00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:16,400
Speaker 1: and I are not moms. The show title often confuses people,

137
00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:18,880
Speaker 1: but we are not moms. But we have talked a

138
00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:25,240
Speaker 1: lot about the depiction of moms in entertainment, and I

139
00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,640
Speaker 1: know that's something that clearly both of you know a

140
00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:31,760
Speaker 1: lot about and have had these conversations about. So one

141
00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:34,680
Speaker 1: of the things I would like to do, if if

142
00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:39,080
Speaker 1: you could, can we go over the evolution of this

143
00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:44,920
Speaker 1: depiction of moms in our media and TV and film.

144
00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:49,880
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I mean if you think back, I mean, it's

145
00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:54,600
Speaker 3: obviously not the first mom or the most famous mom,

146
00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:58,520
Speaker 3: but people always are thinking about like Missus Cleaver from

147
00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:02,560
Speaker 3: Leave It to Beaver, like just this perfect mom, And

148
00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,320
Speaker 3: that was really what a lot of the depiction of

149
00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,240
Speaker 3: motherhood was like. It was just this mom who was

150
00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:13,079
Speaker 3: so devoted and her only purpose in life and her

151
00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:15,719
Speaker 3: only goal in life was to be a mom and

152
00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:21,280
Speaker 3: to serve her family and her kids, and that was

153
00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:23,080
Speaker 3: all people were seeing at that time.

154
00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,199
Speaker 2: And over the years, we've gotten really.

155
00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:30,560
Speaker 3: Much more complex versions of motherhood that we see on TV.

156
00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:33,920
Speaker 3: And there are some people who hate being moms and

157
00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,080
Speaker 3: that's what the show is about. And there are some

158
00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:39,800
Speaker 3: people who are struggling, and there are some people who

159
00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,760
Speaker 3: are kind of just like a mediocre mom. Like it,

160
00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,680
Speaker 3: the more we see, Andy always says this, the more

161
00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,560
Speaker 3: we see, the more we're able to be compassionate to people.

162
00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:52,440
Speaker 2: And to be more fully ourselves. It's like going from

163
00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:55,760
Speaker 2: the one dimensionality, the lack of nuance of like a

164
00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:59,480
Speaker 2: June Cleaver to then, like we interviewed Katie Sagal talked

165
00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:01,960
Speaker 2: about peg Bundy and how like, you know, she was

166
00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,280
Speaker 2: funny and that she like had disdain for taking care

167
00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:06,360
Speaker 2: of her kids and her husband and all this stuff,

168
00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:10,920
Speaker 2: but it was important to see a different mom, to

169
00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,559
Speaker 2: see a mom that we even label as quote unquote bad.

170
00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,680
Speaker 2: It's like that it's I mean, it goes back to

171
00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,479
Speaker 2: I'm not enlightening either of you, but there's like representation

172
00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:25,440
Speaker 2: of any kind generally makes us in our world better

173
00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:28,720
Speaker 2: because we have more empathy or we feel less alone,

174
00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:32,360
Speaker 2: and there's just a greater context for women now. I

175
00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:37,319
Speaker 2: think like there's so many more shades to the moms

176
00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:41,720
Speaker 2: that we see, and it's sometimes sometimes being the mom

177
00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:44,760
Speaker 2: is like we know the woman has kids, but that's

178
00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:48,240
Speaker 2: not what we're watching her do. We're not really like

179
00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,320
Speaker 2: in her struggle. So it's just I think women have

180
00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:56,360
Speaker 2: a much broader ability to like be fully themselves in

181
00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,400
Speaker 2: whatever way that may be. Although I mean, we still

182
00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:00,880
Speaker 2: have far far to go. I don't want to say

183
00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:04,520
Speaker 2: that we're already. We're not like, we're not like men yet.

184
00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:07,920
Speaker 2: We're trying.

185
00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's one of the things that's come up

186
00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:17,520
Speaker 1: for us on this show is we've gotten a lot

187
00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:23,600
Speaker 1: of messages from listeners who have written about very vulnerable

188
00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:27,680
Speaker 1: messages about how this perfect mother trope that they saw

189
00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:33,600
Speaker 1: on TV it wasn't the reality when they had kids,

190
00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:35,839
Speaker 1: and they felt guilty about it. Because that's what we

191
00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,480
Speaker 1: see is it's like, this is the best thing that's

192
00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:42,640
Speaker 1: ever happened. You're so happy all the time. It's just

193
00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:48,800
Speaker 1: it fulfills you completely, all of these things. So having

194
00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:53,760
Speaker 1: that representation and having that nuance and having it change

195
00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:59,079
Speaker 1: has been really important and continues to be. But it

196
00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:03,400
Speaker 1: is interesting to me that it's still that idea is

197
00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:08,080
Speaker 1: in the United States still very much like, Okay, the

198
00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:11,080
Speaker 1: woman is the mother, She's going to do this.

199
00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,200
Speaker 2: Yes, well, she's going to carry the mental load probably

200
00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:16,840
Speaker 2: even if there's like an actuality is going to be hard,

201
00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:21,560
Speaker 2: She's going to be like mentally running this this thing

202
00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:25,280
Speaker 2: and I think, I mean, it's when you speak about

203
00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:28,679
Speaker 2: expectations versus reality. It's like Serena and I, I mean

204
00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,959
Speaker 2: arguably have seen every movie, every show. Don't quote me

205
00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:35,080
Speaker 2: on that, but most of them. And even still like

206
00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:39,080
Speaker 2: I we discussed that, both of us after having our

207
00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,600
Speaker 2: first baby realize like, oh, I don't think I could

208
00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,760
Speaker 2: can be that like perfect mom. I thought I was

209
00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,040
Speaker 2: going to be that like didn't need time to herself

210
00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:51,640
Speaker 2: or that didn't like yell sometimes, or like wasn't resentful

211
00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:55,520
Speaker 2: of like my husband doing something for himself and not

212
00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,199
Speaker 2: for the family. You know, like it's just there is

213
00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:02,360
Speaker 2: I feel like it's just bec It's like with parenting,

214
00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:05,520
Speaker 2: it's like until you're in it, I think you really

215
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,640
Speaker 2: try to save yourself, protect yourself by thinking, well, but

216
00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:11,960
Speaker 2: I'll probably do it really well. Like I think I'll

217
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,040
Speaker 2: probably do it really well and maybe even perfectly, you

218
00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:15,800
Speaker 2: know what I mean.

219
00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:18,560
Speaker 3: But it's like the only I think you have to

220
00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,760
Speaker 3: have that blind faith in yourself. Otherwise why like why

221
00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:22,720
Speaker 3: even father trying?

222
00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:26,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like I get it. I know psychology.

223
00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:27,959
Speaker 2: I read a couple of books and I am reading

224
00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,680
Speaker 2: doing a lot of work on myself. But it's like, yeah,

225
00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:35,720
Speaker 2: anythink it just proves like so much if people say this,

226
00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,280
Speaker 2: but it is harder in ways that you can't even anticipate,

227
00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:44,240
Speaker 2: And so yeah, I think there's something too, uh, like

228
00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:47,400
Speaker 2: when we see moms who are struggling, I think you

229
00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:53,040
Speaker 2: feel like a solidarity. And then also like unless you're

230
00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:57,400
Speaker 2: watching like specific depictions of women, like you know, childcare

231
00:13:57,440 --> 00:13:59,560
Speaker 2: in the United States, paid leave in the United States,

232
00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:04,360
Speaker 2: there's not the reality for most moms is nothing glamorous,

233
00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:06,840
Speaker 2: you know, not even close to what we think it is,

234
00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:08,920
Speaker 2: even on a sitcom like where you don't have to

235
00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,600
Speaker 2: be rich, Like, it's just it's very painful and difficult

236
00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:15,120
Speaker 2: and the days are long for women.

237
00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,760
Speaker 1: When I was a little baby intern, I used to

238
00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,760
Speaker 1: edit this show called Mothership and it was about motherhood

239
00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,960
Speaker 1: and one of the hosts on there was like, she

240
00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:37,960
Speaker 1: said something that always stuck with me. It's like running

241
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:39,560
Speaker 1: through molasses every day.

242
00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:45,360
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, that's what we say to ourself. I honestly,

243
00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:49,680
Speaker 2: Sabrina and I say, how do people do this? Like

244
00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:54,320
Speaker 2: people with far less let's just say capabilities than me

245
00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:59,840
Speaker 2: are doing this every day for millennia, Like what's happening Yeah,

246
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,800
Speaker 2: it's really it's there's not like an end where there's

247
00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,560
Speaker 2: like a break, because even if you had a break,

248
00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:10,320
Speaker 2: you couldn't like really restore enough to feel like your

249
00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:13,080
Speaker 2: heart isn't walking around outside your body. So it's just

250
00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:16,200
Speaker 2: very Yeah, it's it's I mean, look, I know I'm

251
00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:20,160
Speaker 2: saying it like it's all these like hardships and negative things,

252
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:24,200
Speaker 2: but it is. It is, like I can unequickly say

253
00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:28,400
Speaker 2: it is. Knowing all of how hard it is and

254
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:33,320
Speaker 2: running through molasses every day, it's still the greatest. It

255
00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:35,720
Speaker 2: is the greatest. It's just not going to feel like

256
00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:38,600
Speaker 2: that hour to hour or even day to day like.

257
00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:44,120
Speaker 2: But there's a lot of overall I think benefit to

258
00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,800
Speaker 2: like just the bond that you have with your children

259
00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,240
Speaker 2: and the bond that you have with other women now

260
00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:52,680
Speaker 2: like I think, or and dads too. I mean, so

261
00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:56,600
Speaker 2: that's been nice, like kind of it's a very democratizing

262
00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:59,920
Speaker 2: thing to have children because you're all like everyone's clean

263
00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:06,120
Speaker 2: it up, boop, you know, it doesn't matter. Yeah, we're

264
00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:06,760
Speaker 2: all in it.

265
00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:11,800
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, but that is definitely something we've talked about before.

266
00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:18,520
Speaker 1: I'm sure you have experience with either through your conversations

267
00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,320
Speaker 1: or the podcast because you've talked to a lot of

268
00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:24,360
Speaker 1: amazing different people on the podcast.

269
00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,480
Speaker 2: We've gotten really lucky. Yeah, we love it. It's great,

270
00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,880
Speaker 2: Like it's amazing, and every episode week I'm so sorry

271
00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:32,760
Speaker 2: you have to do this with us, just.

272
00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:36,320
Speaker 3: To every guest, like I don't but to be here

273
00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,880
Speaker 3: so starstruck like we just did yesterday I think was

274
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:43,520
Speaker 3: like our twenty fifth or twenty sixth interview, because you know,

275
00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:46,720
Speaker 3: we're just in the second finishing the second season, and

276
00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,360
Speaker 3: Andy said like, I'm so starstruck, and then I was like,

277
00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:51,520
Speaker 3: we've said this today every episode like.

278
00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:53,360
Speaker 2: It's new, like at the beginning, I'm like, you guys,

279
00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,880
Speaker 2: guess what. We're starstruck, But we are because it's like

280
00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,280
Speaker 2: we're meeting people like our our worlds are colliding, like

281
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:05,480
Speaker 2: past me watching One Tree Hill is meeting the character

282
00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:07,840
Speaker 2: that I you know, watched for so many years.

283
00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:08,159
Speaker 4: I don't know.

284
00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,440
Speaker 2: It's very very meaningful people to us.

285
00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,160
Speaker 1: Well, like you said, you're all dealing with poop now,

286
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:22,879
Speaker 1: so which is so nice. Yes, Well, I was wondering

287
00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:28,720
Speaker 1: if you, through your pop culture knowledge, do you have

288
00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:32,720
Speaker 1: like some tropes you see with moms that just come

289
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,639
Speaker 1: up over and over again. That you can break down.

290
00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:38,840
Speaker 2: One big one is that the cool mom was like

291
00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:42,800
Speaker 2: the first one that we i mean mean girls popularized.

292
00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:46,720
Speaker 2: It was Amy Fohler's character as Missus George, and she's permissive.

293
00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,040
Speaker 2: And now we see like on Euphoria, if you watch

294
00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:55,080
Speaker 2: Alana Ubach, her character Sus Howard is like a cool mom,

295
00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:58,119
Speaker 2: a little bit different, a little darker, maybe a representation,

296
00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:01,480
Speaker 2: but there's just this idea of the cool mom trope

297
00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:06,480
Speaker 2: of a permissive parent, a parent who wants to befriend

298
00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:11,960
Speaker 2: her daughter or son and and maybe like build a

299
00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:16,840
Speaker 2: relationship on like we're equals, and so there's not a

300
00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:19,600
Speaker 2: lot of authority there, so we can see the problems

301
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,399
Speaker 2: like for maybe for kids and the parent problems for

302
00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,440
Speaker 2: the parents there. But that's a big one that we see,

303
00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,119
Speaker 2: not I mean, it's not quite as much, but the

304
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,480
Speaker 2: wine mom is kind of like that as well, like

305
00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:33,680
Speaker 2: that with the permissive parenting.

306
00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:37,600
Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, and I mean, and we've talked about

307
00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,040
Speaker 3: like bad Moms quote unquote Bad Moms, which is like,

308
00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:44,960
Speaker 3: you know, we love the movie Bad Moms, but just

309
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,399
Speaker 3: in general we see like these moms who are seem

310
00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:53,520
Speaker 3: to be falling short and that that's a trope and

311
00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:56,760
Speaker 3: it's funny, but I think that's a really useful one

312
00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:58,800
Speaker 3: because then we realize that we're all kind.

313
00:18:58,600 --> 00:18:59,480
Speaker 2: Of falling short.

314
00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,920
Speaker 3: You know, everyone's kind of a bad mom and everyone's

315
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:03,879
Speaker 3: kind of a good mom.

316
00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,080
Speaker 2: So that's a good one. God, we love Like I

317
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,720
Speaker 2: have one trope that I I mean, we talked about

318
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:13,000
Speaker 2: Lucille Bluth earlier, but like this, like Lucille Blue kind

319
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:17,679
Speaker 2: of like Emily Gilmour is a less exaggerated version of that.

320
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:19,879
Speaker 2: But there's like this mom that's a little bit like

321
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:23,760
Speaker 2: judgy and controlling and maybe you know, wishes that her

322
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:27,760
Speaker 2: daughter were different. As you get that sense, that's like

323
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:32,160
Speaker 2: a I love that mom on shows, I always love

324
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:33,720
Speaker 2: that mom. Like I don't know if you guys watched

325
00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:38,320
Speaker 2: season five of Fargo, but Jennifer Jason Lee played like

326
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,600
Speaker 2: this like kind of elitist mom and you don't really

327
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:45,040
Speaker 2: like her for the whole thing, but like, ultimately she's

328
00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,680
Speaker 2: just It's a great character because they they use their

329
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:53,399
Speaker 2: shrewdness ultimately to like help the child that they appear

330
00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,760
Speaker 2: to be judging so much. You know, that's like a commonality.

331
00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,679
Speaker 3: So yeah, and I think we probably all feel judged

332
00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,679
Speaker 3: by our parents. So it's nice to see these ones

333
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:05,119
Speaker 3: on the show as you are at least funny about it.

334
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, did you, because we had a big discussion in

335
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,480
Speaker 4: one of one of the big mother tropes, especially like

336
00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:16,400
Speaker 4: Missus Doubtfire that growing up we were told this mother

337
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:18,760
Speaker 4: is a really bad mother. But then you really think

338
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,000
Speaker 4: on it as an adult or when you become a

339
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:22,080
Speaker 4: parental figure, and you're.

340
00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,240
Speaker 2: Like, no, she was actually great.

341
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,600
Speaker 4: Like who out of all the characters you've seen, or

342
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:28,800
Speaker 4: do you think are some of the most misunderstood mothers,

343
00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,080
Speaker 4: who was seen as a villain but today is like, no,

344
00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:33,160
Speaker 4: actually they had it right.

345
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:37,000
Speaker 3: Well, we talk about it a lot with like Emily Gilmore,

346
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,159
Speaker 3: Like if you watch Gilmore Girls, and if you watched

347
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,000
Speaker 3: it when you were young, Morali was the goal and

348
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,159
Speaker 3: Emily was like this, she wasn't the villain, but she

349
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:48,880
Speaker 3: was sort of like the killjoy, like she was ruining

350
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,480
Speaker 3: the good time, she was forcing them, And now that

351
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:53,679
Speaker 3: we're older, we're like, well, I mean, it's not that

352
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,560
Speaker 3: unreasonable to just ask them to come to dinner once

353
00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:00,399
Speaker 3: a week if you're giving them, you know, thousands of dollars.

354
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,399
Speaker 2: For college, right, or that she's she's mired in like

355
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:09,000
Speaker 2: traditional like values and rules and etiquette. But then you're like, well,

356
00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,439
Speaker 2: there is stability there, I guess, or there's like a

357
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:15,159
Speaker 2: structure that I think you notice with your kids like

358
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,760
Speaker 2: helps them even though it sounds like such a bore,

359
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:21,600
Speaker 2: it's like very grounding to kids to have kind of

360
00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,480
Speaker 2: like regularity and routine and like, you know, all of those.

361
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:28,640
Speaker 2: I guess sometimes like the parameters make you feel safer

362
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,800
Speaker 2: to you know, live your life. But yeah, Emily's a

363
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,680
Speaker 2: big one. We have who else, I mean, we've got

364
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,639
Speaker 2: I did when I when we were interviewing and talking

365
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:42,480
Speaker 2: to peg Bundy herself, Katie Sagall, I did say, like

366
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,760
Speaker 2: it's a joke that peg Bundy was always like, you know,

367
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,960
Speaker 2: bitterly hating her husband and like she's now making dinner

368
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,080
Speaker 2: and stuff, but like she didn't seem like she was

369
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 2: like unhappy. And I think I like realized, well, there

370
00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 2: is benefit to the fact that she was made making

371
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:02,720
Speaker 2: sure that she was living her life on her terms.

372
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,159
Speaker 2: And it was funny played for communicy effect. And I'm

373
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:09,200
Speaker 2: sure that maybe her kids felt neglected at times. But I,

374
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,000
Speaker 2: as I age, realized the value of like I just

375
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:16,240
Speaker 2: want my mom to take care of herself because I

376
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:19,159
Speaker 2: have a lot of guilt and tether to feeling like

377
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,040
Speaker 2: she sacrificed everything. I mean, I think this is probably

378
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,399
Speaker 2: pretty universal, but like, I just feel all the things

379
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:29,399
Speaker 2: my mom doesn't give herself and or hasn't historically, and

380
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 2: it does feel like this like unbearable debt that she's

381
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,360
Speaker 2: not She would say, release yourself, I don't. You don't

382
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 2: owe me anything, but it feels like, God, I would

383
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 2: love to just hear that she's like taking a trip

384
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:44,040
Speaker 2: or like spending money on like a massage or something.

385
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:45,720
Speaker 2: And so I think that, Like I look at peg

386
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 2: Bundy now and I'm like, maybe that is maybe there

387
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,680
Speaker 2: is some sort of gift in that, like Kelly and

388
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:56,600
Speaker 2: Bud can look at her and think, well, she's okay, Yeah,

389
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,880
Speaker 2: she's finding her joy. For sure, she's finding her joy. Guys,

390
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,680
Speaker 2: stop being so chuch, friend. It's been hilarious.

391
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:04,679
Speaker 4: For some reason, all of these old shows that I

392
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 4: have not watched in years keep popping up with like

393
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 4: TikTok trends and such, and peg Bundy keeps popping up,

394
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 4: and I'm like, man, first of all, how like she's

395
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:21,639
Speaker 4: so young as those she has the wig does? She

396
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 4: really told us she has it in.

397
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 2: Her house and we were like, that's so exciting.

398
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,119
Speaker 4: I know, like like her character on that and Sons

399
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:31,679
Speaker 4: of Anarchy, like when people talk about her as an

400
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 4: actress and seeing the two types of moms she played,

401
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 4: I know, she's like people talk about the range that

402
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,159
Speaker 4: she ends up showing and that people generationally do not

403
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 4: realize how she has played these roles so differently because

404
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 4: they were like way too young or not even born

405
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 4: yet for like married with children, but the Sons of

406
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,640
Speaker 4: Anarchy and you're like, she's a bad so like everybody's

407
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,160
Speaker 4: very a friend of her from the little that I've seen,

408
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,400
Speaker 4: But it's kind of funny to see her play those

409
00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 4: roles so perfectly. But she still holds that mother matriarch

410
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 4: role so well yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree.

411
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,159
Speaker 2: You know, I remember, and I don't. I don't have

412
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 2: the facts to back this up, and I don't think

413
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 2: I really want to stand behind myself here, But I

414
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 2: never liked the mom from Seventh Heaven. I don't know

415
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 2: if anyone's watched it, I just never. I never. There

416
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 2: was always something about her like maybe like a martyr

417
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 2: complex that she had. I was always like angry at

418
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:30,920
Speaker 2: her Annie I believe her name was. Similarly, I didn't

419
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:34,199
Speaker 2: love the mom on Parenthood, the Meal, I think like

420
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 2: the I just wasn't that happy with Meal.

421
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 4: I love we're talking about this because I had a

422
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 4: back and forth. The entire Parenthood had so many like

423
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 4: variations of motherhood that could not.

424
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 2: Quite grasp like.

425
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,639
Speaker 4: They did a good job in making sure they were

426
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 4: all very different culturally even, but I was just like, huh,

427
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 4: this is a really interesting conversation in the show in

428
00:24:55,800 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 4: itself on who they are portraying as not the good

429
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 4: mom necessarily but the normalized I guess, yeah.

430
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 1: I agree. Wow, I love this so much.

431
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 2: Sorry, seventh Heaven.

432
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 4: Honestly, I cannot remember. I am racking my brain to

433
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 4: remember that mom, because all I remember is the teenagers

434
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 4: all not liking each other.

435
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,640
Speaker 2: Yeah almost in a hot flash, and same and looks same.

436
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 2: I have night sweats, and I have since I had

437
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 2: my children six years ago. But I just remember her like.

438
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 2: One thing that I really hate that my mom does

439
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 2: is do like someone who like I don't, like a martyr.

440
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 2: I would rather you never do anything for me than

441
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 2: do something for me and then make me know that

442
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,679
Speaker 2: like make me feel bad that I like that, like

443
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,199
Speaker 2: you had to do this for me, Like it's just

444
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 2: it's not a gift. So I get really, I get

445
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 2: really triggered by that kind of behavior. And I always

446
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 2: think like the mom was just always she's always on

447
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 2: the verge of a meltdown, and I could feel it.

448
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,640
Speaker 2: I could feel it was palpable the whole show for me. Now,

449
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 2: I haven't seen it since its debut.

450
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 3: And I do think you're remembering it very differently than

451
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 3: it occurred.

452
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 2: Not today, not today.

453
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 4: This is one of those conversations and trying to remember

454
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,120
Speaker 4: because I'm thinking of like home improvement and the.

455
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 2: Mom, what Jill had to go through, Jill I did?

456
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 2: I really just this is one of those.

457
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 4: This was one of those main tropes of like making

458
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:37,360
Speaker 4: the mom agod the kill joy, all like too responsible,

459
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 4: having to not only take care of the three sons,

460
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 4: but her husband who acts like a child as well,

461
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 4: like remembering all of.

462
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 3: That right, and she's basically taking care of the neighbor

463
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 3: with his head behind the fence.

464
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:50,159
Speaker 2: She was doing too much.

465
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 4: Doing so much, and like they never really credit her,

466
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,360
Speaker 4: and she is literally the butt of all a lot

467
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,439
Speaker 4: of the jokes, it seemed or whether like like the

468
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 4: foil in all of the conversations. But like what I

469
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 4: remember versus what actually was step by Step? Yeah, being

470
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:11,120
Speaker 4: that mother, playing that mother and the mother, Like, there's

471
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 4: so many shows that I have to go back on

472
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,679
Speaker 4: in which the mothers are there and the ideal. At

473
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 4: least Step by Step was a little different because at

474
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 4: least Patrick Duffy what that was his name, right, he

475
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,159
Speaker 4: was at least handsome and like likable from what I

476
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 4: remember as versus and and Susanne Summers being gorgeous, like.

477
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 2: They kind of at least they kind of matched. You know,

478
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 2: the new Yer sitcoms, they don't have that. You guys

479
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 2: are enjoying your relationship, right, because that wasn't like a

480
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,360
Speaker 2: common thing like there was like like you said, there's

481
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 2: like the wife being the ball and chain used to

482
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 2: kill joy and then the husband just the long suffering husband.

483
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

484
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,399
Speaker 2: But yeah, thinking step by Step, you did get the

485
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 2: sense that they were happy to be together. But is

486
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 2: this because they were both were they both they're in

487
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 2: second second marriage? Yeah? Okay, coming back to okay step

488
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 2: by second Family, Yeah, fresh shirt over okay. Yeah, But like.

489
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 4: All of these moms are such an amazing like they

490
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 4: are never really the caricatures like we see and when

491
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 4: characters are portrayed when we see sitcom moms, you know,

492
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,159
Speaker 4: like others are caricatures of themselves almost.

493
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 2: We have the nerd being overly nerdy, We have you know,

494
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 2: like those levels.

495
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: Right.

496
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 4: The mother has to be like seemingly the normal part

497
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 4: of the family that keeps it.

498
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 3: Together, right, Yeah, And I think for a long time,

499
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 3: like definitely in like the nineties, they didn't even really

500
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,880
Speaker 3: put any effort into writing the mother because the mother

501
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 3: is just gonna be there. We're gonna make everyone else funny,

502
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 3: Like she just sit here.

503
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 4: If you're a full house, you don't even need a

504
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 4: mother like that.

505
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 2: How man movies are.

506
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 3: The moms just dead because they're like if the mom

507
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 3: was here, would have happened, because she would have been

508
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 3: like stop what you're doing now?

509
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 1: Right?

510
00:28:57,960 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 4: But I think it's kind of interesting, And then that

511
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 4: kind of leads into the whole step mother trope too,

512
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 4: and how that's kind of grown and changed and has

513
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 4: like become a different conversation in itself, whether it's a

514
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 4: Lifetime movie or something like step by Step right.

515
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yeah, I mean because like Stepmom with Julia Roberts, like,

516
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 2: it's great you. I think that movie did a really

517
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 2: good job of like you do. There's a moment where

518
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 2: you can side with both of them. You can understand

519
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 2: what Susan Saradan's character is kind of like seeing feeling

520
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 2: like she's losing, and then you can see that Julia

521
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 2: Roberts is just she's at like, you know, a disadvantage

522
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 2: because she she's new to the family, and so I

523
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 2: think that's maybe it's it's it's not comedic. It was

524
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 2: a very heartfelt movie in a lot of ways, but

525
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 2: there's it's broad strokes. But they think we saw some

526
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 2: more nuanced than like The Evil step Mother, which had

527
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 2: like pervaded about culture for forever. But that yeah, or

528
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 2: even like in Cinderella Story, which is Jennifer Jennifer cooling

529
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 2: absolute best just like just the Evil Stepmom, but she

530
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 2: was so she was great and sassy. But yeah, yeah,

531
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 2: I think parent trap man, don't get her. I don't

532
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 2: get started.

533
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 1: Trap.

534
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 2: I don't want to talk about it. I mean she's horrible,

535
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 2: talk about horrible, angry.

536
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, like just getting a divorce and deciding like we'll

537
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 3: just split these kids up because we don't want to

538
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 3: deal with each other and we're not even going to

539
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 3: ever see the other kid again.

540
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 2: Yes, mind, simple as breaking up a twin pack. No problem,

541
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 2: No problem.

542
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: Well, Samantha and I love horror, Love me too Horror.

543
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 2: Okay, no, like like PhD in Horror. Excuse me right here, go.

544
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: Ahead, okay, perfect, perfect. Because we've been discussing for a while,

545
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 1: a lot of these tropes you can see, like, oh,

546
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 1: you know the fifties trope, women stay at home. In

547
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 1: the eighties, she's trying to work and bounce all those things.

548
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 1: But I feel like horror has a separate track where

549
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: we can see what we're anxious about around women and horror,

550
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: and that has evolved a lot. And I feel like

551
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 1: motherhood does come up a lot in horror movies and

552
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: also things like infertility, child death, pregnancy, abortion, Like on

553
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: all of these things. What do you think about that.

554
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 2: That makes so much sense? Because I mean, I don't

555
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 2: think this is new. Like my most visceral, primal fear

556
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 2: is that something will happen to my children, Like it's

557
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 2: so it's like, I mean, a very easy thing to

558
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 2: tap into that, like how precious and vulnerable like our

559
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 2: young are. But I think you're right, and I didn't

560
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 2: think about that. There's a lot of horror movies now,

561
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 2: some of the better ones that like are really like

562
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 2: metaphors for for grief, for like you know, like the

563
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 2: separations things like that, And yeah, so maybe you do

564
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 2: see a lot more of the like inner, harder aspects

565
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 2: of the psyche that like that a mother's going through,

566
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 2: like I think about you know, like the Bob a

567
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 2: Duke obviously some other and then her second her follow

568
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 2: up to that. Did anyone see the Nightingale?

569
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: Yes?

570
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 2: Oh did you see? It was one thing? Like I

571
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 2: can watch a lot of stuff. I truly had to

572
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 2: turn it off at points because it was just so affecting.

573
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 2: So it's like it's very you know, people are like

574
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 2: opposed to like slashers in certain ways, and they're like

575
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 2: grotesque and gory and things, but it's like when you

576
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 2: play on like very real loss or you know, the

577
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 2: fear of it, it's, oh gosh, it's like everything on

578
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 2: the line.

579
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, And we've talked about the fact that because

580
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 4: when it comes to pregnancy and the vulnerability of women

581
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 4: in general and those who can get pregnant, like they

582
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 4: really use that as a scope of like be careful

583
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 4: because you are going to be easily possessed, or these

584
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 4: children are going to be possessed, or like that level

585
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 4: of conversation where like you have to remember having a

586
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 4: whole separate being means that you made those control of

587
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 4: yourself and you were not going to know who you are?

588
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 4: Are you like it's kind of just like foreign aspect

589
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 4: of taking this what we see as anatomy and biology

590
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 4: and miracles for a lot of people, and they use

591
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 4: that as a yeah, but there's a foreign object in

592
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 4: your body.

593
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 2: It is going to get you. Are you ready?

594
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 4: Like it's such a horrible level and it comes after

595
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 4: again people who can get pregnant. It is very specific

596
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 4: like working on those fears. So it seems yeah, and

597
00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 4: you're right because even in the children, there's like a

598
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 4: bad child, like a bad seed. It's like moms, I

599
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 4: know you think you have intuition and instinct here do you.

600
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 2: Really know your kids? Do you really? Are you really? Like?

601
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 2: It's it that I mean, that's hard because a lot

602
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 2: of times you're making these gut calls and you think

603
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 2: you're doing the right thing, and those movies play on

604
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 2: the fear of like what if I'm not like, what

605
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 2: if I don't really know my child? What if I

606
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 2: don't know what's best for them or they need more

607
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:21,880
Speaker 2: discipline or whatever.

608
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:22,319
Speaker 1: It is?

609
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 2: So, yeah, it is, there's a lot of that. Yeah,

610
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:31,359
Speaker 2: do you guys have a favorite horror movie, like, oh,

611
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 2: of recent years anyway you could say like within the

612
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,399
Speaker 2: last like five years that has come out And don't

613
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 2: say Hereditary because.

614
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 4: Oh no, that that haunts me. I know, no one

615
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:46,359
Speaker 4: haunts me. That was too much, too much. Tony Collet

616
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 4: should have won the Oscar.

617
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,959
Speaker 2: Go ahead again.

618
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,800
Speaker 1: That's like a loss of child.

619
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a real motherhead one. Yeah.

620
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just feel like it's so prevalent in so

621
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 1: much of our horror and then having that like responsibility

622
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 1: to care for this child and as you said, that

623
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 1: being diving into that fear if I feel like so

624
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 1: much that I've seen. We're slowly working on an episode

625
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 1: on it right now, because I feel like there's been

626
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 1: over the past few years a lot of movies that

627
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 1: have been delving into that, and like going back to

628
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: The Babba Duck, which isn't that recent but fairly recent,

629
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 1: that was a movie I watched. I was like, oh

630
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 1: my god, her kid is so annoying. It felt refreshing

631
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 1: because she acknowledged her kid was annoying, Like it wasn't

632
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 1: trying to paint this perfect picture totally, and at the

633
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 1: end she does arrive at the fact like, no, it's

634
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:53,799
Speaker 1: a mess. I have this grief. I'm accepting it. I

635
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 1: love him, but it's not perfect. And it felt very

636
00:35:57,800 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 1: new to me.

637
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

638
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 4: I think one of the movies we talk about a

639
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 4: lot and we go back and forth about being horror

640
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 4: and sci fi and thriller is Alien.

641
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

642
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, we had a full on episode because Annie was

643
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 4: able to really dig deep in the fight that this

644
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 4: is about womanhood, This is about vaginas and fear of

645
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 4: birth and fair being alone and fear of being single,

646
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 4: and then you start really digging into it and you're like,

647
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 4: oh man, it really is and then shifting that alien scene,

648
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 4: being like, no, men should absolutely be afraid and need

649
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 4: to understand like the levels of in this alien scene,

650
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 4: which is so like pivotal to so many people, and

651
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 4: be like, that's one of the grossest and surprising scenes

652
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 4: I've ever seen. But it had a huge representation of

653
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 4: giving birth and you're like, oh, damn well, that was

654
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 4: a thing.

655
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, the movies like that.

656
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,240
Speaker 4: It kind of gets us and gets me when Annie

657
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 4: brings out these perspectives. He's like, I've written essays to Samantha,

658
00:36:57,800 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 4: are you ready? And we're going to talk about this

659
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 4: whole movie and it's representation of how they take motherhood

660
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 4: for granted and oh my h oh okay, that's what

661
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 4: we're doing today, okay.

662
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 2: And Alien is one of those.

663
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 4: We had that conversation about Wanda Vision as well, which

664
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 4: was that whole TV series.

665
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 2: You know, I didn't see Wanda Vision.

666
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 4: You didn't. Well, it's really great, like kind of ideology

667
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 4: of what people think will happen with child's child loss

668
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 4: and women, women losing control of themselves in grief, and

669
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 4: now with Agatha all along, I feel like it's I

670
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 4: turned back into her own resentment towards her mother. And

671
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,240
Speaker 4: I've not even seen many episodes. It's just like people

672
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 4: talking about it, and that's what it seems to be turning.

673
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 4: So we're saying so many things that you would think

674
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 4: we would eventually get away from. But when it comes

675
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,280
Speaker 4: to very focused horrors like this, Some of my favorite

676
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 4: are the winging movies, the where are those There was

677
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:53,799
Speaker 4: that couple who were actually just gotten to a lot

678
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 4: of situations that supposedly go around hauntings, Annabelle.

679
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 3: But it's the other one conju conjuring.

680
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:05,800
Speaker 2: All of that is about motherhood.

681
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 4: Like you, like, the basis of the haunting, the basis

682
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:10,800
Speaker 4: of like why they're being haunted. It's based on children

683
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,799
Speaker 4: and motherhood. And I find it fascinating that they're so

684
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:18,479
Speaker 4: focused on that. It almost wants to like not the tract,

685
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 4: but like it does love the idea of those relationships,

686
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 4: the motherhood and the children, the parenthood and the children,

687
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 4: and it finally does come to a redeeming factor of

688
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 4: like being saved by love or memories of love, any

689
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:35,799
Speaker 4: of those things, but it has to take them in

690
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:37,800
Speaker 4: such a torturous way.

691
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 2: Right, Well, your mother is if your mother is like

692
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 2: your initial safety in this world, your home truly in

693
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 2: this world. It's like I think, yeah, I think that's

694
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,800
Speaker 2: that's that is also tapping into like a very primal

695
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:57,320
Speaker 2: fear in all of us, you know, So yeah, yeah,

696
00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 2: it's true.

697
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 1: Well, and that's I mean kind of a but very

698
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 1: popular trope is you blame the mother in horror. It's

699
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,720
Speaker 1: the mother's fault if the.

700
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 2: Child and you and and actually we stand by that, No,

701
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 2: I'm kidding, we do. I like to make the joke

702
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,839
Speaker 2: if it's not one thing, it's your mother, and I

703
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:21,399
Speaker 2: do think so we always joke about that, and then

704
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 2: like our moms will be like, oh, it's always the

705
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 2: mom's fault, you know, but and then we say it

706
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 2: a kind of it is.

707
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:31,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think going back to one of the

708
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 4: best and classic horror movies for me, which was very

709
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 4: much based on that is Carrie, Like it's.

710
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 2: Oh my God in her Dirty Pillows.

711
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, it holds up still, you know, and like it's

712
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 4: being the genre that it is, the conversation texts on religion,

713
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 4: the mother periods, like all those things is exactly what

714
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 4: a lot of everyone fears, especially periods. I hate it,

715
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 4: so you know, yeah, it's all but I find like

716
00:39:57,840 --> 00:39:59,840
Speaker 4: those types of tropes it just continues.

717
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:04,279
Speaker 2: It is it is, it still works. Oh yeah. I

718
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:06,879
Speaker 2: think it's like there's a there's a central question in

719
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 2: like a Carrie type movie where like let's just say, like,

720
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,839
Speaker 2: for instance, your child is not who you wanted them

721
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 2: to be or thought they should be, or they're not

722
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 2: following like you know, moral, ethical rules or whatever it

723
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 2: is which this ties into religiosity. It's I think we

724
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:29,760
Speaker 2: all think about that, and and my sense is always

725
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 2: and not to sound too bad about it, but that like,

726
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 2: there's nothing I wouldn't change about my entire life and

727
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:39,360
Speaker 2: self based on how my kids develop or need or whatever.

728
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 2: It is, Like you change, you change the world around

729
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 2: your kid, you know what I mean, Not if your

730
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 2: child's like a terrible person or anything like that, but

731
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:51,840
Speaker 2: you know, so, I think when we see those like

732
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:56,799
Speaker 2: like the parents whose rigidity, like I guess, makes the

733
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:02,279
Speaker 2: child become a psychopath. Maybe Okay, yeah, I think like

734
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 2: I I'm very judgmental, like maybe of of people who

735
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,840
Speaker 2: are expecting their children to fit into a pre existing

736
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:17,319
Speaker 2: set of ideologies. Mm hmmm. That makes and I did

737
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 2: judge Anny from Seventh Heaven earlier for probably similar I'm

738
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 2: very sorry about that.

739
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: We're going to need you to watch it again and

740
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 1: report pod.

741
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:33,320
Speaker 2: Hey you guys, easy, easy, easy.

742
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,799
Speaker 1: I would love to hear back from from you about that.

743
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 2: Coming back to this.

744
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, So one of the things that I know

745
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 1: you both have talked about is, you know, sort of

746
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 1: the what what's the improvements we're seeing in the representation

747
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:58,759
Speaker 1: of the mom and our media, but also if how

748
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 1: it could get better, could look uh can you talk

749
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 1: about that?

750
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, yeah, I mean I think it could do.

751
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:11,800
Speaker 3: It's we're getting better, We're definitely being more honest about

752
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 3: the hard parts of motherhood. But I think I would

753
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 3: love to see more representation of the mental load and

754
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 3: the things that the mom besides childcare, like all of

755
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:29,839
Speaker 3: the other things that a mom has to be in

756
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 3: charge of and that a mom is doing.

757
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 2: Like, I would love to see that talked.

758
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:38,399
Speaker 3: About more and shown more because I just genuinely think

759
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 3: like a lot of men truly do not think that

760
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:45,759
Speaker 3: there's anything extra the women are doing that they're not.

761
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 3: So I'm like, we need to be showing a little

762
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:52,360
Speaker 3: bit about, you know, how much we're all doing.

763
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:56,439
Speaker 2: I think, Uh. Bridgerton is a show that we've talked about,

764
00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 2: like the last season was so was the biggest streaming

765
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 2: season of a show ever, And I think that tells

766
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 2: us that, however pulpy or so be, it is, like

767
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 2: women like to be able to have their fantasies or

768
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:18,879
Speaker 2: their desire be centered. We don't want the narrative every

769
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 2: story to be led by the male gaze or male

770
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 2: desire as we've seen it so many times before. So

771
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:28,799
Speaker 2: I think like maybe a show that it doesn't have

772
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 2: to be like gratuitous, but to show women pursuing desire,

773
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 2: having desire being like real, like sensual creatures that we are,

774
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 2: that doesn't feel like it's sacrificing the mom's ability to

775
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 2: be a good mom because she's like going after like

776
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 2: a like a you know, an affair or something like that.

777
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 2: You know, I think that might be I think there

778
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 2: Bridgerton tells us that there's a lot of women who

779
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 2: want to see more of that part, that aspect of

780
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 2: themselves on TV, and I think, like, mom, I think

781
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 2: that that might make sense.

782
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think a lot of the stuff we've been

783
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 1: talking about hasn't centered the mom, like you know, the

784
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 1: ninety sitcom, she was the like, let's keep this on track.

785
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:18,919
Speaker 1: So something that's more centering on motherhood and not using

786
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,799
Speaker 1: it as some kind of plot device or whatever it is.

787
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 1: I'm curious have you talked about probably yell at me Mills,

788
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 1: Have you talked about this step?

789
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 3: Have we we've we've desperately I mean we wanted to

790
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 3: like violence. Yeah, we've been reaching as we love to chat,

791
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 3: but well we yeah, yeah, yeah we have. I think

792
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 3: it's another trap, another trap like we have referenced.

793
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 2: Like Stiffler's mom and like the idea of like that,

794
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:55,759
Speaker 2: like like the May December relationship that like who were

795
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 2: we talking? What were we talking aboutself? We talked about

796
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 2: because she was so garcel bouvet of Real Housewives, Beverly

797
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 2: Hills and an illustrious acting career in her own. She's

798
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 2: in a movie that's like a newer version of like

799
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 2: How Stella Got her Groove Back, and so she's in

800
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 2: this movie dating much younger man and so we see

801
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:17,839
Speaker 2: like the woman as the cougar or whatever. But this

802
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 2: did get us talking about Mills and how I just

803
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 2: think it's like I don't know, but I just think

804
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:27,840
Speaker 2: like when when I was little, my mom she didn't

805
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 2: she wasn't trying to look like sexy. I don't know

806
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 2: that she wasn't so obsessed with like looking cute, or

807
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 2: maybe she was. I think she probably was, because that's

808
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:39,400
Speaker 2: just what it is to be a woman, to be

809
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 2: aware of your appearance. But I think it's such a

810
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,920
Speaker 2: trap like that get your body back after baby, and

811
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 2: like then try to so what to look like sexually

812
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 2: desirable for longer, for who?

813
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 3: For me?

814
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 2: I don't think it's for me. I don't think it's I.

815
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 2: And if it, if it determines that it is for me,

816
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:01,920
Speaker 2: I think would all have to dig deeper and say, like, okay,

817
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 2: it's for you because you have been conditioned under the patriarchy. Yeah,

818
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 2: so it's very tough, Like, yes, I want to look

819
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 2: good and things like that, but I just think, like,

820
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 2: you know, we joke, but like you look back at

821
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:17,920
Speaker 2: pictures of like moms in like the eighties and nineties,

822
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:20,319
Speaker 2: and like everyone was wearing a turtleneck with a crew

823
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 2: neck sweatshirt over it, and like, you know, no in

824
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,360
Speaker 2: an acid washed geene that didn't fit like and it

825
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:29,439
Speaker 2: was fine, it was fine, And now we're seeing moth

826
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 2: Like I mean now I only wear athleisure every day.

827
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:34,799
Speaker 2: So I really shouldn't I shouldn't have a platform to

828
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,360
Speaker 2: speak on. But I do think it's like I don't.

829
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 2: I just I don't want to have to be so like.

830
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:42,799
Speaker 1: I don't.

831
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 2: I don't want to try to be hot ever again,

832
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 2: I'm tired. I don't get mom done with that.

833
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I do think, yeah, like my mother is

834
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 3: was always trying to be cute, and I think it's exhausting.

835
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:57,320
Speaker 3: Like I was even talking to her on the phone

836
00:46:58,080 --> 00:46:59,279
Speaker 3: yesterday and I was like.

837
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 2: Who can hairs? You're almost seventy years old, what do

838
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 2: you care?

839
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 1: Yeah?

840
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:06,319
Speaker 2: When can we let it anymore? You know?

841
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 3: So I do think, yeah, trying to be the milk

842
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:12,239
Speaker 3: is very exhausting and it's not for me.

843
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:14,799
Speaker 2: It's not a life for me at all, all right,

844
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:16,359
Speaker 2: So we're going to take that off your list.

845
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 4: No not, that's not part of your bucket list to

846
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:20,959
Speaker 4: call the milk at any point in time.

847
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 3: Now what I love too, Yes, but it's not it's

848
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 3: not something that comes naturally to me.

849
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 2: So I'm just gonna move on. And it's been too hard.

850
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 2: It's been too troubling for me.

851
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:33,280
Speaker 4: You know, different people have different days. And men always

852
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:35,239
Speaker 4: talked about how they love to see women dressed down.

853
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 4: So you may be someone's milk and you.

854
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 2: Just don't know it. Maybe they didn't tell it to

855
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 2: your face, so you know, just you guys write in

856
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 2: you know, the most of our all of your male listeners.

857
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 2: They're getting on their computer right now. We have no conversations.

858
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 4: But it is interesting because even in the depictions of

859
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 4: mothers today. And I was thinking about parenthood as well

860
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,319
Speaker 4: as the Stranger Things. It is that competition to be

861
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:05,800
Speaker 4: desired by the younger person, or competing with the younger person,

862
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:08,240
Speaker 4: and I am thinking specifically like in the Parenthood where

863
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 4: I cannot remember who the characters are, but the main

864
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:16,440
Speaker 4: couple with the oldest son his wife. Uh, he goes

865
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 4: into the record business and they have a secretary and

866
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 4: because she's so nice to her that she thinks that

867
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:30,719
Speaker 4: maybe they can have chances. Yes, okay, but ye has

868
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 4: that younger secretary who's she's a big actress and I

869
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 4: can't ye'all, I've lost all the names, they're gone all

870
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 4: the heads.

871
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 2: So but anyway, but.

872
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 4: Like I know that was that that was that type

873
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 4: of tagline and uh storyline, but I've seen that a lot.

874
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 4: And then like making the guy look like such a

875
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 4: great dude because he's able to like, you know, find off.

876
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 2: He's resisting young young women.

877
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 4: But that storyline like having women compete with other women

878
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 4: or compete with themselves and their age in order to

879
00:48:57,719 --> 00:48:59,799
Speaker 4: be desirable, And it seems to be like that's the

880
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 4: notable sexualized character for the mom's is very rare for

881
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 4: them to look like an everyday mom, and every day

882
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 4: mom being yeah, sometimes wearing wesa were sometimes just wearing

883
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:15,920
Speaker 4: your stained shirts that you have because you have children

884
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 4: or you're a clumsy yes me, you know, like not

885
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 4: not being always glamored up because you don't have the

886
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:24,399
Speaker 4: time or you don't have the Oh you know, not

887
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:25,880
Speaker 4: every woman loves to do that.

888
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:26,359
Speaker 2: I will say.

889
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:30,359
Speaker 4: My mother also, she came from the country boomer era

890
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:33,439
Speaker 4: of like you never leave the house without makeup type

891
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 4: of person as well.

892
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 2: Oh you know, but oh you know that generation.

893
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 3: But well, yeah, I mean and Andy's mom has chased

894
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 3: after cars to tell us to put on lipsticks, so

895
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:45,320
Speaker 3: she like literally has been like running down the street

896
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 3: and been like savvy put on lips no question.

897
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:51,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, this's embarrassing, but I think you're right. And we

898
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:53,239
Speaker 2: talked to I don't know if you guys are aware

899
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 2: of Alice Lunin. She wrote on our Best Behavior in

900
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 2: this book that dissects the seven Deadly sins, how as

901
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 2: they pertain to how he is like how women, so

902
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 2: women must be good in our society and all of

903
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 2: these things like the don't let yourself go or don't

904
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 2: be jealous of other women, but compete with them. Like

905
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 2: all of these lines that we have to tow or

906
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:18,440
Speaker 2: are so they only apply to women, Like all of

907
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 2: these rules, it's like you do not see the equal

908
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 2: and opposite for a man. Women are spending so much

909
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 2: on injectables and anti aging, and we're all like we

910
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 2: you know, young kids, young usuals getting skincare obsessed.

911
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:35,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, and like just look at like Bill Belichick and

912
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 3: he has like a twenty five year old model girlfriend,

913
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:41,040
Speaker 3: and I'm like, this would not be happening the other

914
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 3: way around, right, you know, he just would.

915
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:56,240
Speaker 5: It's clearly a lot we could get into.

916
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 1: But I do feel a lot of times I've heard

917
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:05,480
Speaker 1: this argue meant seeing it in media of like men woman,

918
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 1: his wife, raises their kids, does all this stuff, and

919
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 1: then he divorces her for someone younger and is just

920
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:21,280
Speaker 1: like entire like going back to what you said, entirely

921
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 1: not recognizing what she was doing to do this that

922
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:30,719
Speaker 1: she felt she had to hide usually or like had

923
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:34,239
Speaker 1: to make it seem like it was normal, not like

924
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 1: draw attention to it because we get called out for

925
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 1: that as women too, of saying like, oh, this is

926
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 1: a lot of.

927
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 2: Work, don't show the effort.

928
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:44,520
Speaker 1: Would you know, if if a divorce needs to happen,

929
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:45,800
Speaker 1: to divorce me to happen. But I just feel like

930
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 1: I hear that narrative a lot of men being like, oh,

931
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:53,239
Speaker 1: force her. She didn't do anything for me, and it's

932
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 1: like she raised your kids.

933
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 3: Ye yeah, yeah, Well I think that was what was

934
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:02,759
Speaker 3: I think, and I could be remembering this wrong, but

935
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:06,239
Speaker 3: like when Jeff Bezos and his wife got divorced and

936
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:08,480
Speaker 3: she got that huge settlement, I think that's what a

937
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 3: lot of people were like kind of excited about, Like

938
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 3: she was getting recognized for she helped him make Amazon

939
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 3: and she got like half the money, and I think

940
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:18,279
Speaker 3: people were like, yeah, she.

941
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:22,319
Speaker 2: Deserves half of man. Well, we talk about rage a lot,

942
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 2: and we just talked to Katherine Reitman, who is the

943
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 2: creator and showrunner and director of Working Directed at Work

944
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 2: in Moms and just she talks about how a big

945
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 2: theme is like rage and like Sabrina is like if

946
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:41,319
Speaker 2: you knew her, like she seems very like she's very

947
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:44,080
Speaker 2: funny and she's sharp and like she can be cutting

948
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:46,200
Speaker 2: in like a very funny way, but like she seems

949
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 2: very mild mannered. But ever since she's had children, she

950
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 2: has never something like Casey Wilson in her book The

951
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 2: Wreckage of My Presence says, I appear to be on

952
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:01,320
Speaker 2: the surface, like very calm and collect but below the surface,

953
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:04,879
Speaker 2: I am like seething, where she's just seething and I've

954
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 2: never and she's kind of circled it in the book.

955
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:10,319
Speaker 2: Sent it to me, I said, a gotcha. Next day

956
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 2: I sent it again, like she's just like it's just like,

957
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 2: I think this makes sense. Yeah, I'm angry. It's so

958
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 2: many things that I don't even know if we made

959
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:22,440
Speaker 2: a list of food end And I love that. I

960
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 2: love that, just raw emotions.

961
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:25,640
Speaker 4: But I think, like what I will hope And I

962
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:28,479
Speaker 4: haven't seen too many examples because one of the things

963
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 4: we love is women women supporting women, but seeing shows

964
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:35,840
Speaker 4: where the mothers get to actually support each other and

965
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:39,799
Speaker 4: being able to see them being a unit. Recently, I'm

966
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,960
Speaker 4: really into ca dramas, y'all. There was one like The

967
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 4: Love next Door. H is the name of it, but

968
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 4: it's about these two moms. Well now it's one of

969
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:51,720
Speaker 4: the side stories, is the two moms who've been best

970
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:54,480
Speaker 4: friends and have been like around each other for so long.

971
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:56,480
Speaker 4: And now their children have grown up and all these things.

972
00:53:56,840 --> 00:54:00,160
Speaker 4: But it's wonderful because you actually see an example of

973
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:03,720
Speaker 4: two women who have been best friends and have gone

974
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:06,760
Speaker 4: families and have gone in different directions, but they support

975
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:09,759
Speaker 4: each other still and they make sure that they understand

976
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:12,960
Speaker 4: that just being a mother is a big part of me.

977
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 4: But we are still best friends in this timeline still,

978
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:18,759
Speaker 4: and I feel like there's not enough of that, and

979
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 4: I want to see more of that.

980
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 2: I love that. Yeah, No, you're so right. You're so

981
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 2: right because we say that.

982
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:30,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I think female friendships are the most important

983
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 3: relationships in your life. And I don't think a lot

984
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:37,160
Speaker 3: of mothers would survive the day to day if they

985
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:40,759
Speaker 3: couldn't talk to their friends about what was happening and

986
00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:42,239
Speaker 3: have someone that relates to that.

987
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:43,440
Speaker 2: And I love that.

988
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:45,879
Speaker 3: I love that in so many things, Like I even

989
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:48,239
Speaker 3: watch you know, I love a good teen drama. So

990
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 3: I watched The Summer I Turned Pretty and the two moms,

991
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:55,279
Speaker 3: I mean only in the first season.

992
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 2: To spoiler, I always reckon.

993
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 3: Sorry, I'm sorry I didn't write it, but anyway, the

994
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:07,200
Speaker 3: two moms are the best friends. And I loved so

995
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:11,719
Speaker 3: much of that, Like I loved watching them together, and yeah,

996
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 3: I think and we even we saw the new Amy

997
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:17,680
Speaker 3: Adams Wooby that will be coming out in a couple

998
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:20,840
Speaker 3: of weeks, and there's such great like moms supporting moms

999
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 3: in that and it's just great.

1000
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:26,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, there's like a a ken. I feel like

1001
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:29,560
Speaker 1: you both are just gonna have to come back because

1002
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:32,040
Speaker 1: we have so much we could talk about. But there's

1003
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:35,640
Speaker 1: such a history of like, I'm also on a food show,

1004
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:40,120
Speaker 1: and we did an episode on Betty Crocker and how

1005
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:45,879
Speaker 1: women felt so alone and so Betty Crocker became such

1006
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:48,960
Speaker 1: an important person to them that people actually cried when

1007
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 1: they found out she wasn't real.

1008
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that's hard for Yeah, but like that in.

1009
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:59,560
Speaker 1: A history of kind of being a mom being isolated.

1010
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 1: But then as we've moved forward, having those friendships and

1011
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:06,439
Speaker 1: having that support and being able to say, like, hey,

1012
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:09,799
Speaker 1: this does feel like running through molasses every day? Am

1013
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 1: I right? Like having that and having that friendship and

1014
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 1: how important it is. Because we've also done episodes on

1015
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:24,120
Speaker 1: how women usually live longer after their husband passed away

1016
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 1: in a very heteronormed of sense because they have those

1017
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:32,600
Speaker 1: friendships and men don't. So I think that's incredibly, incredibly important,

1018
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:35,360
Speaker 1: and it's like just the value of having someone you

1019
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:39,480
Speaker 1: can just vent too.

1020
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:42,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and who Like I noticed that, Like with

1021
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:46,720
Speaker 2: Sabena and I, like in a lot of ways we joke,

1022
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:48,799
Speaker 2: but it is like sort of true, like she is

1023
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:51,360
Speaker 2: my wife, like I am her wife, and there's like

1024
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:55,840
Speaker 2: I I know what it would mean for someone to

1025
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:58,759
Speaker 2: take care of me, and so I try to take

1026
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 2: care of her like that, and he tries to take

1027
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:02,440
Speaker 2: care of me. Like it's just even like in our

1028
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:05,319
Speaker 2: business together, it's like we do a thing where like

1029
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:07,759
Speaker 2: if one of us gets to an email and there's

1030
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:10,719
Speaker 2: a question what, the person who got there fastest is

1031
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:13,400
Speaker 2: answering it, and the shop is closed because like I

1032
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:15,600
Speaker 2: want to take something off your plate. I don't want

1033
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:17,880
Speaker 2: to give you any more like decisions to make or whatever.

1034
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:21,000
Speaker 2: So I think like maybe as we age, I don't

1035
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:23,480
Speaker 2: even think it has it almost doesn't have to do

1036
00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:26,000
Speaker 2: with motherhood, but as you age, you just try to

1037
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:29,840
Speaker 2: realize to take care of each other in the way

1038
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:32,200
Speaker 2: that we want to be taken care of. And it

1039
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 2: does come back. It does come back to you with

1040
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:35,160
Speaker 2: your female friendship.

1041
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:35,840
Speaker 1: They think.

1042
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 2: With all of that.

1043
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:42,760
Speaker 4: Obviously, with your friendships growing, are there shows or is

1044
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 4: there something that sticks out, especially with these fictional women

1045
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:48,720
Speaker 4: characters that you can see as being advice for real

1046
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:51,520
Speaker 4: life moms and just in general older women who are

1047
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:52,560
Speaker 4: trying to live day by day.

1048
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:58,080
Speaker 2: I sail, I think Grays and Frankie. Oh that's not good. Now.

1049
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:00,560
Speaker 2: I only saw a little bit, so I can't speak

1050
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:01,760
Speaker 2: to the whole show, but I think that was a

1051
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 2: beautiful and I think even just just listen to any

1052
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:06,919
Speaker 2: podcast that Jane Fond has ever done because she's she's

1053
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:10,560
Speaker 2: so she has such lasting friendships that she can talk about.

1054
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:14,560
Speaker 2: I love this. One of my favorite shows, like top

1055
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:18,800
Speaker 2: five shows all time is Penn fifteen and Maya Erskine

1056
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 2: and Anna Ryan Conkle, who created the show and act

1057
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:24,040
Speaker 2: in the show, Like, I think that that's like a whole,

1058
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:29,960
Speaker 2: really beautiful love letter to your best friend. So I

1059
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:32,320
Speaker 2: always think of that. And I know that they're just young,

1060
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:35,120
Speaker 2: they're like in middle school and entering high school, but

1061
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:38,400
Speaker 2: it's it's so special feeling.

1062
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:39,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that.

1063
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:44,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, And we we interviewed Jessica Saint Clair, who we

1064
00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:47,160
Speaker 3: just think is the funniest. We love her so much,

1065
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:49,600
Speaker 3: and she created a show called Playing House with her

1066
00:58:49,640 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 3: best friend and it's you know, one of them helping

1067
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:55,600
Speaker 3: the other raise a baby, and that's.

1068
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 2: Just such it was. It was only on.

1069
00:58:57,360 --> 00:59:00,400
Speaker 3: For three seasons, but it's so great and I people

1070
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:02,920
Speaker 3: should watch that one. It's so funny and it's so

1071
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:05,440
Speaker 3: like when you think about that, you're like, yeah, another

1072
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:06,880
Speaker 3: woman would be a help with me.

1073
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:10,360
Speaker 2: That would be helpful. Now, Sabrina did just watch a

1074
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:14,560
Speaker 2: Netflix series that she told me was based on my

1075
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 2: twin flame, which was a mom who's gonna go and kill. Yes,

1076
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 2: but that was a crime, which says a lot about

1077
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:27,240
Speaker 2: my my personhood lost in the fire. I mean, that

1078
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:31,080
Speaker 2: is a great tale of motherhood. This there's someone on

1079
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:36,520
Speaker 2: TV that is your twin flame. It's just a crime doctor. Yeah.

1080
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 2: And apparently she she seems like she's seeking revenge. So yeah,

1081
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:45,080
Speaker 2: she was out for what is a compliment, you know

1082
00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:46,480
Speaker 2: what I mean? No, I took it as one.

1083
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:46,959
Speaker 1: I did.

1084
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:47,800
Speaker 2: I really did.

1085
00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:51,600
Speaker 4: I mean for all like maybe like, yeah, you know what,

1086
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:53,120
Speaker 4: you need to be aware this is me.

1087
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:57,560
Speaker 2: So that's great. Yeah, I'm gonna I said, it doesn't

1088
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:00,160
Speaker 2: have to be my child that goes missing. Guys, any

1089
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 2: any of you call me, I'll come five stakes over.

1090
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:05,320
Speaker 2: I'll have permits on the land.

1091
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:09,640
Speaker 3: I'll just Andy's definitely like the fierce one in the friendship,

1092
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:12,160
Speaker 3: and we have like a pact where like, if there

1093
01:00:12,320 --> 01:00:15,320
Speaker 3: is an apocalypse, she will take the children against the children.

1094
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:18,760
Speaker 2: I won't take Sabrina me down, but I'll know you'll

1095
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:20,760
Speaker 2: just slow me down. Yeah you did. Wait, we're going

1096
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:23,120
Speaker 2: to take the kids right now. As of right now,

1097
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:27,120
Speaker 2: I've promised myself it's just me and five kids and

1098
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:30,240
Speaker 2: going up up or down. I don't know if we're

1099
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:34,360
Speaker 2: heading up to Canadackar going down to you know, Central

1100
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:39,120
Speaker 2: and South America at some point a motion. But anyway, Yeah,

1101
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:40,480
Speaker 2: so I have a lot of fun.

1102
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:43,280
Speaker 4: Hey, I like that there's realistic promises, like you're not

1103
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:45,640
Speaker 4: trying to be like cutesy and like no.

1104
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:49,640
Speaker 2: No, slow the process down. It's the nicest thing anyone

1105
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:51,560
Speaker 2: could ever say to you. Yeah, we're leaving you.

1106
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:55,200
Speaker 4: I've already told my friends I'm going to trip them.

1107
01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 2: So that faster than the person, I'm a find a way.

1108
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:02,960
Speaker 2: I'm just kidding that. Yeah, we know the resources will

1109
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:03,560
Speaker 2: be scarce.

1110
01:01:03,720 --> 01:01:07,120
Speaker 1: Come on, got to have these plans in place you've.

1111
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:09,680
Speaker 2: Got well, like we saw the last of us.

1112
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:17,680
Speaker 1: I was I think I could play that game professional.

1113
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:22,160
Speaker 1: You can't anyway. Thank you so much for being here.

1114
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:24,200
Speaker 2: Sorry, if we really took it off the rails here,

1115
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:24,800
Speaker 2: we love that.

1116
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:29,040
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being here. Clearly, you're welcome

1117
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:31,440
Speaker 1: back any time, because there's so much to talk about

1118
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:36,320
Speaker 1: with this and listeners go check out their podcast. Can

1119
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:38,920
Speaker 1: you tell the good listeners where to find you?

1120
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:42,720
Speaker 3: Yes, so you can listen to pop culture Moms wherever

1121
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:45,840
Speaker 3: you listen to podcasts, and please do, and then you

1122
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:51,360
Speaker 3: can find us on Instagram. Andy's Andy M. Mitchell and

1123
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:55,200
Speaker 3: I'm Skolberg. Thank you so much for having us good

1124
01:01:55,240 --> 01:01:56,160
Speaker 3: friendship right there.

1125
01:01:56,920 --> 01:02:01,600
Speaker 1: I don't know that we could do the social media

1126
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:02,640
Speaker 1: for ourselves.

1127
01:02:02,880 --> 01:02:04,160
Speaker 2: Oh no, I don't think we could. No.

1128
01:02:04,360 --> 01:02:06,360
Speaker 3: Wait, you know what the funny thing is, I know

1129
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:09,400
Speaker 3: for sure that's hers. But after I said mine, I'm like,

1130
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:09,960
Speaker 3: I don't think that.

1131
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:11,440
Speaker 2: No, you didn't know if it was your yea, I know,

1132
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:14,280
Speaker 2: I don't know if mine is actually a Skohlberg And

1133
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:15,000
Speaker 2: I know for sure.

1134
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, thank you, thank you, thank you for coming on.

1135
01:02:21,360 --> 01:02:24,600
Speaker 1: If you would like to contact us, you can. You

1136
01:02:24,640 --> 01:02:26,880
Speaker 1: can email us a stuffid you, mom stuff at iHeartMedia

1137
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:29,000
Speaker 1: dot com. You can find us on Twitter at momst podcast,

1138
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:31,240
Speaker 1: or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I Never Told You.

1139
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:34,400
Speaker 1: We have a tea pub bookstore. We also have a

1140
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:37,040
Speaker 1: book you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks

1141
01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:40,240
Speaker 1: as always too our super producer Christina or executive producer Maya,

1142
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:43,240
Speaker 1: and our contributor Joey. Thank you and thanks to you

1143
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:45,400
Speaker 1: for listening. Stuff I Never Told You is production of

1144
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:47,440
Speaker 1: iHeart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, you

1145
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:49,440
Speaker 1: can check out the heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or

1146
01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:51,000
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite show