1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:00,760 Speaker 1: Hi. 2 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 2: There A quick note before we start. Most of you 3 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:08,360 Speaker 2: love listening to ads. I know that, But if you don't, 4 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 2: here's an option. Subscribe to True Crime Clubhouse on Apple Podcasts. 5 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 2: You'll get ten episodes of Empire on Blood the Director's 6 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 2: Cut ad free and one week early with exclusive bonus content. 7 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 2: And it's a mere two ninety nine a month. Previously 8 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 2: on Empire on Blood. 9 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 3: You're not going to die, right? 10 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 4: I don't intend you. 11 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 5: Did you tell anybody about it? Before? Alan Karen orfered you? 12 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 5: I got out of jail card. 13 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 6: He's looking at me and laughing at me at the stamp, 14 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 6: telling me I didn't get you, but I got you. 15 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 5: I mean, Dwight was a gift who you said you 16 00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 5: were ambitious? Right? What was your ambition? 17 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 7: Take it where we was going. I didn't really put 18 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 7: an endgame there. We won't push it to the limit 19 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 7: wherever it's going to go. Let's all be rich living 20 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 7: in mansion somewhere. 21 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 2: This is Dwight Robinson that we that Dwight talks about. 22 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:17,399 Speaker 2: That's him and Calvin Guarny. Before Dwight flipped and helped 23 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 2: put Call in prison for life, he was friends with 24 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 2: cal together. They were going places. According to Dwight, they 25 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 2: shared a vision of how to get there. 26 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 7: I was watching a movie and they used the word manifestation. 27 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 7: I think it's that the word. I'm looking Nah, it's 28 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 7: another word, and the definition is you tink what you 29 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 7: want when you want. And that's the type of men 30 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 7: child we have. 31 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 5: To rise above. If you got to kill a few people. 32 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 7: To get what you want in life, so be it. 33 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 7: If that's part accomplishing your gold, so be it. As 34 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 7: long as your gold is accomplished. You can't build an 35 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 7: empire on blood. 36 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 2: So Dwight Robinson looked at the corner and envisioned an 37 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 2: empire and the emperor. How does he feel about Dwight's view? 38 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 6: D White is an emphatical liar. I do not co 39 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:34,679 Speaker 6: sign anything that Dwight says. Violence was never the key 40 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 6: to nothing to me. 41 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 2: For cal it's been his life's mission to prove that 42 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 2: Dwight is wrong and has always been wrong. But this 43 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 2: is Dwight's episode from Orbit Media. This is Empire on Blood, 44 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:55,360 Speaker 2: a story of murder, betrayal, and a man who fought 45 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 2: the law for two decades, and of a new friendship. 46 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 2: My friendship with Dwight Robinson. I'm Steve fishmir Dwight Robinson 47 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 2: is crucial to this story. He sets all the players 48 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 2: in motion. His decisions change their futures. But Dwight is complicated. 49 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 2: He's one thing, then he's another. I know what he did, 50 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 2: that's on the record, But why did he do it? 51 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 5: That's what I want to know. 52 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 2: Dwight had been a gift to the prosecution, an overachieving cooperator, 53 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 2: someone on the inside who claimed to tell all. I'm 54 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 2: a journalist. I like cooperators too. I've been tangled up 55 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 2: in this story for half a dozen years, and from 56 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 2: almost the moment I got involved in this case, I 57 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 2: knew that Dwight Robinson could be would be a valuable 58 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 2: informant for me too. But I faced a challenge. Dwight 59 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,119 Speaker 2: was not easy to reach. A guest of sing Sing 60 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 2: Correctional Facility. Two years after he helped send Cow to prison, 61 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 2: Dwight was convicted of gunning down a rival drug dealer. 62 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 2: He was sentenced to twenty five years to life. I 63 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 2: couldn't just call Dwight on the phone, so I mounted 64 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 2: a letter writing campaign. My first missive to Dwight is 65 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 2: dated November twoenty and eleven, quote. I think you were 66 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 2: one of the people who knew the drug scene intimately 67 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 2: and helped determine what went on there. I know that 68 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 2: there was sometimes violence over turf and personalities in control, 69 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 2: and I'm interested in understanding that better. Then for three 70 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 2: years I heard nothing from Dwight until one afternoon I 71 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 2: was at a local playground with my youngest son when 72 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 2: my cell phone rang. A recorded female voice announced the 73 00:04:51,960 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 2: caller by first name, Dwight. Why now. I'd sent Dwight 74 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 2: other letters after that first one. In each letter, I 75 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 2: offered him a bit of information about Kyle's case, things 76 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:13,159 Speaker 2: I knew and he didn't. Dwight was interested. Prison cut 77 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 2: him off from the outside world, and I became his pipeline. 78 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 2: And then also Dwight was lonely bored. He was desperate 79 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 2: for any tales of life on the outside, tales that 80 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 2: would let him think about something besides the crushing routine 81 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 2: of prison. His calls became a regular feature in my life. 82 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 3: Flight Have you been watching the news? 83 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:45,280 Speaker 7: No? 84 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 8: What happened on the news? 85 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 3: The metal, the power boards three seven? 86 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 8: That would change your life? 87 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 3: On listen, you're going out tonight? 88 00:05:58,240 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 8: Yeah? 89 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:00,359 Speaker 5: Ticket? 90 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 8: All right? 91 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:04,119 Speaker 3: Hopefully are that's you gotta call you be like, hey, listen, 92 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 3: we're both villas. 93 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 4: You're okay type in symboland chuckles, Oh my god. 94 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 3: Chuckles, c h U k k A. 95 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:23,040 Speaker 1: Okay. 96 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 3: Now now let me ask you this, right, is there 97 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 3: any out of order truckle? Is there anyone with a 98 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 3: bootes or one color? 99 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:32,280 Speaker 8: Uh? 100 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 4: Hold on, now, they're always two tone. 101 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 3: You're not allowed to have too talk. You're not allowed 102 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 3: to have too talk? 103 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 5: Oh is that right? Wow? Wow? 104 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 8: Yeah, you shout? 105 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 4: Get yeah, what. 106 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 5: You been up? 107 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:54,359 Speaker 8: I'm going off camping with my my kid, did you? 108 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 5: Uh? 109 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 8: You know, I always feel guilty telling you about life 110 00:06:57,400 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 8: on the outside. 111 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 3: That's global court. It takes me from my head. Really yeah, now, 112 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 3: thinking that when I get out here, maybe you can 113 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 3: head up to Canada hang out, you know what I mean? 114 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 8: Me and you? 115 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 3: Yeah? 116 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 4: Sure sure. 117 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 2: So over the years, I come to find Dwight entertaining 118 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 2: a little goofy. I know how that sounds. He's a 119 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 2: convicted murderer and maybe he is a little disconnected from 120 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 2: reality at times. Canada the two of us. But I 121 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 2: like Dwight. Maybe I like him better knowing he's behind 122 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 2: prison walls. But I come to think of Dwight as 123 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 2: a friend, and also I come to trust his insights, 124 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 2: well some of them. 125 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 8: What is the first thing that you think about when 126 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 8: you make up in yourself? 127 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 3: It depends. Sometimes I get up and I just like 128 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 3: another day in this place. Some days I get up, 129 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 3: I think about my family. Some days I'll get up 130 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 3: think about my freedom. We both man, so you know. 131 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 3: Some days I if I think about pushing on me, 132 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 3: you gotta keep it real, ste Lobby, Sometimes I will 133 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 3: wakel Actually I get here. How to head up in 134 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 3: this bullshit? 135 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 2: I want to know the answer to that question too. 136 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 2: Dwight is bright, articulate. He could have ended up in 137 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 2: other places. So how did he end up in this bullshit? 138 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 2: One day I take the train to sing Sing the 139 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 2: legendary State prison, perched on a hill above the Hudson River. 140 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 2: I pause on the steps of the main entrance, taking 141 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 2: in the scenery. The view is breathtaking. You can see 142 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 2: clear across the river. The prison authorities sequester us in 143 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 2: a large rectangular conference room with a long table. Whatever 144 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 2: part of the jail is your, your cell and your 145 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 2: you see the river at all. No, the room is dull, grim, 146 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 2: in need of a paint job. Of course, there are 147 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 2: thick bars on the windows. A corrections officer, Orminder sits 148 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 2: at the far end of the table, listening with a 149 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:11,199 Speaker 2: sleepy expression. 150 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 5: So I don't know, tell me about growing up when 151 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 5: he's to thirteen. So it was a lot of fun, man. 152 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 7: You know, when I first came to this country, I 153 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 7: was quiet. So me and my brother, me and my 154 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 7: older brother, we got real close, you. 155 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 5: Know what I mean. 156 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 2: Dwight was born in Jamaica. His family moved to New 157 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 2: York when he was seven. His parents moved on to 158 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 2: East two hundred and thirteenth Street, just off Bronxwood Avenue, 159 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 2: what would become known as the Corner on Blood. Back then, 160 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 2: it was a nice neighborhood and a destination for Jamaican immigrants. 161 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 7: As we got to know everybody, she started learning the neighborhood, 162 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:57,439 Speaker 7: just having a lot of fun growing up. Like for me, No, 163 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 7: I always liked be fly, being fresh, you know what 164 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 7: I mean. For some reason, that was just my pashana. 165 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 7: And at a young age, I always thought about money, 166 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 7: you know. 167 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:12,559 Speaker 5: What I mean. 168 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 2: Dwight didn't grow up for her. His parents worked. There 169 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 2: was always food on the table and Dwight. He was 170 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 2: the baby of the family. He says his mom liked 171 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 2: to spoil him. Once, Dwke told me he would have 172 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 2: been a journalist if he'd grown up around me. Maybe, 173 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 2: but Dwight grew up around people pursuing other career paths. 174 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 2: It was the early nineties. One day, Dwight came home 175 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 2: from high school, walked into the bedroom he shared with 176 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 2: his brother Peter. Peter and their upstairs neighbor were dividing 177 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 2: a big rock of crack into vials retail portions. 178 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 5: I say, they was going through about. 179 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 7: Fifteen thousand dollars a week, and that's a lot of 180 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 7: bottles to bottle up. So they started paying me to 181 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:02,559 Speaker 7: do the bottling up. That was my first interaction with drugs. 182 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 2: Dwight was just starting high school. At first. He limited 183 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:10,079 Speaker 2: his involvement, but he happily reaped the rewards. 184 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 5: My brother, so he's my older brother. 185 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 7: He loved me, so he was getting paid one thousand 186 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 7: dollars a week back then, and every time he got paid, 187 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 7: come get me. Come on, we're gonna shop, you know 188 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 7: what I mean, that's it. We wasn't thinking about doing 189 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 7: nothing else that morning, but I got paid come on, 190 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 7: I got my age. The type of stuff I had 191 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 7: wasn't normal. 192 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 5: You know. 193 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:36,200 Speaker 7: I would go to school with lother jackets, Gucci lynks, 194 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 7: you name it, Polo watches, you know, and people in 195 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 7: school they couldn't believe it. You know, every day I 196 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 7: come to school a different sneakage, different outfit. So my 197 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 7: age for people my age, they was like, fuck is 198 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 7: up with this guy? 199 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 5: You know? 200 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 2: Dwight and Peter they love each other and they lean 201 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 2: on each other. The older brother protects Dwight from danger, 202 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 2: and he is well equipped for the task. Everyone describes 203 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 2: Peter as tough, yeah, but not like normal tough. There's 204 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 2: something unreasonable about his toughness, like crazy. A dealer from 205 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 2: the neighborhood told me how Peter had metal braces on 206 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 2: his teeth and how one day he watched Peter take 207 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 2: the braces off with a fork to Dwight. His brother 208 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 2: had superpowers for shock. 209 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 5: It's hard to explain. It's like violence. Is he mastered violence? 210 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 7: If he want to go to mythical beans, he would 211 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 7: be like a Walgard or something. 212 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 5: Violence is so easy to him. 213 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:46,719 Speaker 7: He sees it, he sees everything. I wasn't violent at 214 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 7: a time, but I know to get money. My brother 215 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 7: blows money, but he sees things. 216 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 2: So Dwight is more the thinker, the plot or the schemer. 217 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 2: His brother is the war god. And then there's Cal, 218 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 2: another thinker. Dwight looks up to him too. 219 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 7: If you're a thinker, you always want to respect another thinker. 220 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 5: It's like Chakratefs and Plato. 221 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 7: I restore they're all thinkers and that was their bob 222 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 7: before anything, that they was all thinkers. 223 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 5: They thought outside the box. So his mind, I respect 224 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 5: his mind. 225 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 7: His ways is a different story. 226 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 2: Cal I used to pick Dwight up at school in 227 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 2: his BMW. 228 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 7: Even back then, he used to always say, Yo, you 229 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 7: remind me of me, you know, and a lot of 230 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 7: people for some reason thought that me and him was brothers. 231 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 5: You know. I remember, well, guy, just. 232 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 7: Be like yo, I've seen your little brother, and I 233 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 7: think that kind of made us have a bomb. 234 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 2: Every minute they spend together is a chance for Dwight 235 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 2: to be more like Cal, to act like him, to 236 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 2: dress like him. For Dwight, this was as close a 237 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:01,680 Speaker 2: relationship as he could have wanted with his idol. 238 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 7: We had genuine love for each other. At one point 239 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 7: we slept in the shame back. We had one bitter 240 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:11,079 Speaker 7: appointment out of town. Nobody wanted to sleep on the floor, 241 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 7: so we will all sleep shy ways, you know. 242 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 9: What I mean. 243 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 2: Now, Dwight, he may have had a genuine love for Cal, 244 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 2: but Cal has a different point of view. 245 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 6: You know, for me and Dwight, there was really no 246 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 6: loyalty there. Dwight Robinson and me really never had no 247 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 6: personal friendship, so to speak. 248 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 5: We had a business relationship. 249 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 2: Sometimes I think Dwight and Cal live in parallel universes. 250 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 2: I wonder how much of Dwight's view is enhanced, not 251 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 2: an intentional fiction exactly. It's true for Dwight, but I 252 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 2: think he might take these conversations with Cal, these shared moments, 253 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 2: and compress them so that they have a dense emotional 254 00:14:56,200 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 2: gravity for him. Now in fearness, view may have evolved 255 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 2: given what happened later. But these days he's insistent Dwight 256 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 2: meant nothing to him. He was useful. 257 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 6: Dwhite Robinson was an individual that you know, brought things 258 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 6: for me when I was in the street. And that's 259 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 6: the way that me and his relationship consists of. 260 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 2: So who's got it right? We'll find out. After the break, 261 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 2: we're back with Empire on Blood. In our conference room, 262 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 2: it sings sing the officer who's supposed to mind Dwight 263 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 2: Robinson and me. He's fallen asleep loudly. His name is Tire. 264 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 5: He's out man Tight. 265 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 2: So Dwight jolts Tire awake by banging on the table. 266 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 5: Tight snor. 267 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 2: The officer wakes up. Dwight and I get back to 268 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 2: our talk, exploring how he got into this bullshit. Dwight 269 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 2: had been a high school kid doing a few errands 270 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 2: for drug dealers. You know, I feel like sometimes your 271 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 2: life kind of ended in ninety seventh. 272 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 7: Do you ever think that, Yeah, yeah, I actually feel 273 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 7: it was not honestly, I think it ended in nine 274 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 7: one because I honestly had a chance to be a 275 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 7: legit working guy. I didn't want to go knee deep 276 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 7: in a drugs I feel that after I got cut, 277 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 7: he left me no choice. 278 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 2: Here's what happened. One day when he was sixteen, Dwight 279 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 2: put on one of his new outfits new Sneakers or 280 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 2: maybe chuck us, and to the park. A member of 281 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 2: Cow's crew. Was there a light skinned kid with startling 282 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 2: green eyes. Let's call him green Eyes. Green Eyes aimed 283 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 2: a giant water gun at Dwight, so I got real. 284 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 7: Amazed, stopped fucking scoring with the sugar sugar so he 285 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 7: put it down broken bottles, going like this. So I 286 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,919 Speaker 7: tried to walk away, actually throw it, and it caught me. 287 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 7: Got thirty two stitches behind that. 288 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 2: The wound left a large dark scar on Dwight's neck. 289 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,360 Speaker 2: As he talks about it, his mood darkened too. 290 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:42,400 Speaker 7: So I felt handicapped. That's how I literally felt handicapped. 291 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 7: I lost focused in school, and I felt that the 292 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 7: streets would be easier to move about, feeling the way 293 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 7: I felt being in a street was like where I 294 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:08,399 Speaker 7: belong now with the rest of the dysfunctional people, the 295 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,679 Speaker 7: regular society for normal people down there feel normal just 296 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 7: because it's yeah, I don't know who I watch. I should 297 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 7: get up and look in the mirror every day. I 298 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 7: love the mirror. After you've got the scar. Didn't like 299 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 7: the march once anymore. 300 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 2: I can barely make out Dwight's scar. My first reaction. 301 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:37,159 Speaker 2: That kind of playground incident doesn't qualify as life changing. 302 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 2: But then I think about my own life, about things 303 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 2: that changed me but aren't obvious to others. I have epilepsy. 304 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 2: For a long time, I had seizures three or four 305 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,120 Speaker 2: times a year. Add those up, it's only a few hours. 306 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,920 Speaker 2: But the possibility of a seizure was always there. Every 307 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 2: step I took on the subway, on the stairs, always 308 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:04,640 Speaker 2: all I felt fragile, guarded, fearful. I kept my condition, 309 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 2: my wound, as private as I could. Dwight couldn't do that, 310 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:10,679 Speaker 2: not with a looming scar. 311 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:15,399 Speaker 5: For the odds my whole life. 312 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 7: Man, you no take from another country here in this 313 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 7: country where Pe used to tease me just because I 314 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:23,920 Speaker 7: wasn't from him. 315 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:31,160 Speaker 5: No, I'm used to be the odd guy out. 316 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 2: But Dwight, he didn't like being the odd guy out. 317 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 2: He wanted to belong. Cal two was from an immigrant family, 318 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 2: but Cal he was self sufficient, smooth, cool, confident. Cal 319 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 2: was always going to be all right. Something inside Dwight, though, 320 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 2: I think he always felt like it had to be fixed. 321 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 2: All the perfect new outfits couldn't change that, and the 322 00:19:55,840 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 2: jagged scar made it evident. Soon after the scar incident, 323 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 2: Dwight dropped out of high school and started hustling full 324 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 2: time in the streets where he fell. He belonged. There 325 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,479 Speaker 2: is one benefit to his new life. Of course, Dwight 326 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 2: gets to hang with Calvin. 327 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 1: He was like a movie star. He did everything over 328 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 1: the top, you know what I mean? Yeah, Actually, in 329 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,199 Speaker 1: his mind, the guy used to say stuff like this 330 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: to me. Literally said this, they're going to make a 331 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 1: movie about I sell my mom. He would say stuff 332 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: like this. That's a type of nice. He was that flamboyant, 333 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:39,360 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. 334 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 2: Dwight remembers cal as a godfather, the godfather like in 335 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:49,199 Speaker 2: the Mafia. Cala actually has the word Callione tattooed on 336 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:54,439 Speaker 2: his neck and homage to Don por Leone. Godfather Callione 337 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 2: took care of people, paid the rent of someone faced 338 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 2: a viction, bought groceries for people, were done cash. And 339 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 2: if you were his friend, Calli entreated you like a king. 340 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 2: One hundred dollars, cigars, one hundred dollars shots, ten thousand 341 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 2: dollars sweets in Vegas con could drop fifty thousand dollars 342 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 2: in a weekend. With coun Dwight thought the future looked bright, 343 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 2: their future. 344 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 7: I don't know what it was, baby, It was Calvin 345 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 7: and his swagger whatever. Everybody that was going out of 346 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 7: town want to come there and show their well. 347 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 5: Show. That block became the magnet for it was the block. 348 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:38,439 Speaker 7: And there was times you'd come on the block and 349 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 7: just see this crew pull up with their cars. There's 350 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 7: times when you will see about fifty I'm talking about 351 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 7: you name. It was on that corner, just like wow, 352 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:54,119 Speaker 7: life is good from the outside looking in, it looks beautiful. 353 00:21:56,160 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 2: After the break, the beautiful life ain't so beautiful. On 354 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:08,360 Speaker 2: the corner on blood, the blood starts to run. Ah, 355 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 2: we're back with Empire on Blood. My friend Dwight, he's 356 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 2: a lot of things, but one of them that I 357 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:27,679 Speaker 2: come to appreciate is his shrewd insights, particularly for the 358 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,719 Speaker 2: darker side of things. Dwight he has a bead on evil. 359 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 2: He knows why good people do bad things, and well 360 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 2: I find him poetic. His phrase Empire on Blood pure poetry. 361 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:46,719 Speaker 8: You like an evil poet, You like my daddy evil poet. 362 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 8: Yeah it's not better, Well maybe it's maybe it's the 363 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:52,879 Speaker 8: poet of evil. 364 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 3: Yes that's you. But but not in a bad way, 365 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 3: you know, in finish the good way. 366 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 2: As a teenage crack dealer, Dwight's life is going pretty well. 367 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 2: He has cash money, a backpack full of it, he 368 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:16,119 Speaker 2: tells me. He buys expensive cars, He buys Gucci links 369 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 2: and Bali shoes. He and Cal are tight. A prosperous 370 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 2: future is in the offing, except Dwight bears a grudge, 371 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 2: a grudge against green Eyes, the drug dealer who threw 372 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 2: the bottle that cut his neck. Dwight got the scar 373 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety one. It's nineteen ninety five and Dwight 374 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 2: still wants revenge. But Dwight feels he can't make a 375 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 2: move without a nod from the Godfather and CALLI on. 376 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 2: He's known green Eyes for years. Cal is protective of 377 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:50,160 Speaker 2: his crew. 378 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 7: I think the shot he had to make a choice, 379 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:55,400 Speaker 7: and I think he said, you. 380 00:23:55,359 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 2: Know what, he chose green Eyes, you know, and he 381 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 2: made a choice. 382 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 7: So now I had to make a choice, you know 383 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:10,360 Speaker 7: what I mean. It's going to be again his terminology. 384 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,119 Speaker 7: Cut the head off, the body will fall, cut the 385 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 7: head off. Dwight may hold a grudge against green Eyes, 386 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 7: but he's furious with Cal. Dwight feels spurned. That's cow's 387 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,919 Speaker 7: head he's talking about. When you look up to someone 388 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 7: and you give him your awe. And I did a 389 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 7: lot for that man, you know what I mean. He 390 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,719 Speaker 7: had to admit it. I kept him in power. I 391 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 7: said at one time, I wish. 392 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 5: His number one money made. 393 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 2: Dwight's motives may arise from hurt feelings, but Dwight is 394 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 2: ambitious too. He's starting to chafe under Cal's control. 395 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 7: From the outside looking and we're making money. We live 396 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 7: in an easy life, but it's not easy. Every day 397 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,199 Speaker 7: you wake up and golden the street. You put your 398 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,120 Speaker 7: life on a lot, one way or the other. Now, 399 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 7: for us, I did taking chances, and majority of the 400 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 7: drugs that's being sold by us is. 401 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 5: Yours, meaning Calvin. 402 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 7: It got to a point where he started felt like 403 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 7: he got to slow me down. 404 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:19,480 Speaker 2: In early nineteen ninety five, Cow spends several months incarcerated 405 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:24,640 Speaker 2: at Rikers Island. He's got expenses, lawyers, bail, trials and tribulations, 406 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 2: as Dwight puts it, And if Col's off the streets, 407 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,159 Speaker 2: he can't distribute crack. And if he can't distribute crack, 408 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 2: he doesn't have money coming in. Dwight's developed his own 409 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 2: crack supply. Does he even need Cow. Dwight has already 410 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,880 Speaker 2: started collecting the symbols of power, the very ones Cow 411 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 2: used to have. 412 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 7: There was a time back then when I used to 413 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,479 Speaker 7: go to his apartment. He had a nice appointment, being 414 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,680 Speaker 7: in South Boston. Within he used to have a little 415 00:25:55,680 --> 00:26:00,200 Speaker 7: fish tag with piranhas in it, and we should he 416 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 7: used to mess with the piranhas. 417 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,160 Speaker 5: Apartment was real, real nice. 418 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:11,160 Speaker 7: Now by ninety five, you come home, all this trial 419 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 7: and true relation you're going to you're living with your market. 420 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 5: You lost that. He comes home a nice apartment. 421 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 7: I got a big sixty gather a fish tank with 422 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 7: all kinds of piranhas, and it's like you remember what 423 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 7: you know? 424 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:25,439 Speaker 5: You got it. 425 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 2: According to Dwight, Cal is the one to make the 426 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 2: first move, a preemptive strike. After he's released from Rikers, 427 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 2: Cal supposedly chases Dwight with a gun. Cal denies this, 428 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,439 Speaker 2: but in Dwight's telling, he has to turn to his 429 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 2: brother Peter for protection. His brother the war god. 430 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 5: I go to the crib. We talked for a while 431 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 5: what it's going to be. The brother made a decision 432 00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 5: and we go. 433 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,440 Speaker 2: Peter and Dwight steake out Cal. He's with his best 434 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,159 Speaker 2: friend Jay. They're on their way to the city for 435 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 2: a night out. Dwight and the war God set up 436 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,439 Speaker 2: in the bushes at sing saying Dwight is about to 437 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 2: tell me the rest of the story. When he pauses, 438 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 2: the statial limitation is seven five. 439 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 5: I think tent murder. Yeah, but. 440 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 7: Anyway, I don't know if he says something. He turns 441 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:35,920 Speaker 7: the carrel to get back out, stands and and. 442 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 5: Look around and uh he gets back in. Actually know 443 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,160 Speaker 5: it's just raining shots. 444 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 2: What Dwight means is that he and his brother jump 445 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 2: out of the bushes and they make it Raine shots. 446 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 7: I think Jacob hit like seven times and Calvin, you 447 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 7: don't gets lucky. 448 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:01,879 Speaker 5: He gets one d the leg. Jan was dead in 449 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 5: the waters, and even. 450 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:05,120 Speaker 7: When he was coming out of the car, you could 451 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 7: see blood coming out of him. And uh, may we 452 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:15,160 Speaker 7: decide that he was in Jay? Growing up, Jay lived 453 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,119 Speaker 7: upstairs from us. We always had a different kind of 454 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:22,399 Speaker 7: ball with him. So at that particular time, he was 455 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 7: just in the wrong place at the wrong time, you 456 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 7: know what. 457 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 5: Uh, And he's not a threat anyway. 458 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 2: Dwight and his brother they let Jay live. Karl escapes 459 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 2: and is hospitalized with a leg wound. A detective visits 460 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 2: cal in the hospital asks who shot him, but CALLI on, 461 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 2: he won't snitch Omerta, as the mob says, code of 462 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 2: the streets and also practical, Cal wants explained to me, 463 00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 2: you could get penalized to death for snitching. So Cal 464 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 2: limps out of the hospital a few days later, without 465 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 2: having revealed the names of his would be assassins. The limp. 466 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 2: That's a metaphor. Cal is handicapped. He can't control the 467 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 2: crack market the way he used to. A turf war 468 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 2: breaks out for control of the local empire. Dealers run 469 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 2: for their lives, not fast enough. One week after Dwight 470 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 2: and his brother try to kill Cal, Dwight's brother is 471 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 2: shot dead. Who murdered Peter? No one is arrested, but 472 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 2: first Dwight and his brother try to kill Cal. Exactly 473 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 2: one week later, Dwight's brother is shot dead. Come on, 474 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 2: isn't it obvious? Dwight certainly thinks so. Cal denies he 475 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 2: had anything to do with Peter's death. He says Dwight 476 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 2: and Peter had plenty of enemies, which is no doubt true, 477 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 2: But well, the timing is interesting. Remember what Cal said. 478 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 5: Violence was never the key to nothing? 479 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 6: To me? 480 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, but Cal bodies are foling all around you. 481 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 2: You've been shot, and what you're telling me is you're 482 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 2: some kind of conscientious objector Gandhi among the gangs. Really so, 483 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 2: the murder rate in the Bronx is soaring. Col survives, 484 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 2: Jay also lives, but soon half a dozen others are dead. 485 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 5: Everything was on the news made it. It was in the papers. 486 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 5: They were just saying that. 487 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 7: The violence at that point, we just course, it was 488 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 7: just so much all of course that one corner. 489 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 2: The corner on blood. The police summoned the relatives of 490 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,479 Speaker 2: the dead to the station. They summoned Dwight, who's in 491 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 2: an emotional state. 492 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 5: Where did you pet when Peter got killed? I always 493 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 5: say and anger? 494 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 7: At some point, my greed said that for me to 495 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 7: accomplish what I want to accomplish, would I'll be willing 496 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 7: to do that for untold riches. Yeah, I would try. 497 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 7: I would roll the dice, and my greed courted my 498 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 7: brother's life. 499 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 5: It was. 500 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 7: These guys is not bad dudes, you know what I mean, 501 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 7: under circumstances of how we came up. 502 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 5: It's just that size was chosen. 503 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 7: Nobody put a gun to our hands and say that 504 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 7: you have to do this. This is what we willingly chose, 505 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 7: and that comes with it. When it hit Coach the home, 506 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 7: it hurts. But did I want revenge? 507 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 8: Heah. 508 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,959 Speaker 2: Dwight is almost six feet tall and lean. I can 509 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 2: imagine him at age twenty one sitting in the police station. 510 00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 2: Soft spoken, clean cut, He sometimes dressed like a prep 511 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 2: school kid in button down gap shirts. He sits across 512 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 2: from a detective. 513 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 7: They take on a stack of a pitch of dead people. 514 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 7: As I'm looking at it, I'm like, Okay, this is 515 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 7: what it looks like. A closer person. 516 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 2: Dwight as cool as a fan. He's seen plenty of 517 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 2: dead bodies in his young life. In Dwight's memory, the 518 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,960 Speaker 2: police detectives recalibrate their approach. 519 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 7: They said, look, we know you or your brother try 520 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 7: to kill Calvin and Jay. 521 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 2: Dwight is convinced that cops have a witness to his 522 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 2: attempted murder of cow So. From Dwight's point of view, 523 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 2: the detective is threatening him, but at the same time 524 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:45,240 Speaker 2: he's suggesting that, you know, maybe there's another way to 525 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 2: handle this. 526 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 7: It's like, as much as he's prushing me, I could 527 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 7: see like he wants to work something out with me. 528 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 5: You know, and he sits down. 529 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 7: We started. Chalkie says, listen, you're not our main target. 530 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 7: We want cow. And we felt that he has something 531 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 7: to do with your brother. 532 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 5: Death, and and I knew he did, but I. 533 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 7: Knew he didn't have nothing. I knew he was a 534 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 7: clean hit. So at this point, I says to myself, 535 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 7: I could give him up. At that point it was 536 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 7: about victory. And I felt that he was in the 537 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 7: winter sheet at that point, so I was like, I'm 538 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 7: not gonna let him win. 539 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 5: With that said, I gave him the Hamwich Brothers, so 540 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 5: it was no coming back from that, you know what 541 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 5: I mean. 542 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 2: It's worth noting that, yes, Dwight flips on his item 543 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 2: he is a snitch, but hey, snitches can still tell 544 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 2: the truth back and sing saying our interview is coming 545 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 2: to an end. I asked Dwight about the street code 546 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:17,799 Speaker 2: about Omerta. For Dwight, it's about how cal treated him. 547 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:20,800 Speaker 5: You're telling me it's okay for you to rob me, 548 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 5: It's okay for you to try to murder me. 549 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 7: It's okay for you to lie and me, steal from me, 550 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:34,279 Speaker 7: kill my family if you had to. But telling us 551 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:44,759 Speaker 7: forbidden who made that. I made my own horse hommel plate. 552 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,800 Speaker 2: Remember Cal's trial, Dwight's on the stand. Cal's attorney is 553 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:59,400 Speaker 2: cross examining him. Ken Schreiber asks Dwight point blank, did 554 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,280 Speaker 2: you have any to do with the shooting of Calvin Bwarre. 555 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:07,840 Speaker 2: Dwight responds, no, I didn't, Sir At Sing Sing. I 556 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,759 Speaker 2: asked him about his lie under oath, that's perjury and 557 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:15,880 Speaker 2: supposedly a crime. Now, the prosecutor, Turtleman, told me he 558 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,280 Speaker 2: didn't know that his star witness had tried to murder 559 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:23,360 Speaker 2: the defendant. Apparently the cops neglected to share their suspicions 560 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 2: with him. In Dwight's mind, though everyone knew it was 561 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:27,760 Speaker 2: no secret. 562 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 5: So were you surprised because you denied it in court? 563 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,759 Speaker 2: Were you surprised him Alan Karen didn't say anything, that 564 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:36,360 Speaker 2: detectives didn't say anything. 565 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:44,879 Speaker 7: Not surprised because at that point I understood that in 566 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 7: a fight against crime, people played dirty. 567 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 5: There's no short rules. 568 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:56,239 Speaker 7: It's a dirty game all around a board. So for 569 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 7: people to feel like there's short of rules that they 570 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 7: want to lose all the top, you know. So I 571 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,919 Speaker 7: wasn't surprised. I understood what was being done. 572 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:16,879 Speaker 2: A dirty game all around. I leave Dwight at Sing Sing, 573 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,960 Speaker 2: leave the guard to his nap, past the barbed wire 574 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:25,520 Speaker 2: and the gun towers into the sunshine, into the beautiful 575 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 2: view of the Hudson River. Leave behind my friend Dwight 576 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 2: the rat. Next on an Empire on Blood, a surprise 577 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 2: meeting between former colleagues from the Corner on Blood. Both 578 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,120 Speaker 2: are now in prison. One day on the chow line. 579 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,040 Speaker 2: Guess who Dwight bumps into. 580 00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 7: They looked at like these two guys are probably let's 581 00:36:58,080 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 7: just have one of them kill each other and just 582 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:00,040 Speaker 7: get on with. 583 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:02,719 Speaker 5: Correction, screwed up, Andy. 584 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,759 Speaker 9: They should have never add put them in the same facility, 585 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 9: but they did. 586 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:24,359 Speaker 2: The director's cut of Empire on Blood is produced by 587 00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:29,359 Speaker 2: Emil Klein. Austin Smith is our associate producer and production coordinator. 588 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,280 Speaker 2: The original production of The Empire on Blood was also 589 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 2: produced by Emil Klein. Miil Lobell was our executive producer. 590 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:41,759 Speaker 2: Julia Parton our story editor. Fact checking by Stephanie Daniels. 591 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:47,440 Speaker 2: Our advisor was Joel Dusk, mastering by Jason Gabrel, original 592 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 2: scoring by Joel Saint Julian and our theme song, The 593 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:56,000 Speaker 2: Lonely King is by Mister Land Special thanks to Andy Bowers, 594 00:37:56,239 --> 00:38:01,160 Speaker 2: who championed the original production at Panoply. Steve Fishman. 595 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,120 Speaker 5: King the Bill to the Blood Leaves The King were 596 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:12,080 Speaker 5: the Burns were the burn Lave between friends and old 597 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:12,759 Speaker 5: the last one. 598 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 1: You're here, Come. 599 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,760 Speaker 2: Hi there, before we go, You've just listened to another 600 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 2: brilliant episode of Empire on Blood the Director's Cut. To 601 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:39,800 Speaker 2: hear episodes of this series one week early and ad 602 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:43,759 Speaker 2: free with exclusive content, subscribe to True Crime Clubhouse on 603 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts. It's just two ninety nine a month.