Speaker 1: Up next out Loud what Gianno called well part of
Speaker 1: the guich. The journey of Weldon Angelo's from an up
Speaker 1: and coming music producer to a new face of criminal
Speaker 1: justice reform wasn't pretty. In fact, it was cruel, torturous,
Speaker 1: and included a fifty five year prison sentence. It also
Speaker 1: included a full pardon from the one President Donald J. Trump.
Speaker 1: Today we hear Weldon's story. This is Outlined with Gianno Caldwell.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Outline with Gianno Caldwell. I'm Gianno Caldwell
Speaker 1: and I have a really interesting and fascinating show this week.
Speaker 1: My guests is someone with a remarkable life story that
Speaker 1: would make for a Hollywood script. His name is Weldon Angelos.
Speaker 1: I'll save most of the details for our conversation, but
Speaker 1: to give you a basic review. In the early two thousands,
Speaker 1: Angelo's was a young and promising hip hop producer. He
Speaker 1: had a budding new record label, Extravagant Records, and was
Speaker 1: on his way to the top. But then Angelo sold
Speaker 1: a few hundred dollars worth of cannabis also known as
Speaker 1: marijuana weed to a police informant over multiple transactions, and
Speaker 1: everything went downhill. Angelos had no prior criminal record, but
Speaker 1: because the informant said Angelos had a firearms strap to
Speaker 1: his ankle, he was sentenced to fifty five years in prison.
Speaker 1: Federal law made fifty five years the minimum sentence allowed,
Speaker 1: even though this was the first time marijuana offense. Eventually,
Speaker 1: after well over a decade in prison, Angelo's was released
Speaker 1: in twenty things to a major bipartisan effort, and then
Speaker 1: last year President Trump fully pardoned him. Today, Angelos is
Speaker 1: the new face of criminal justice reform, especially cannabis related issues.
Speaker 1: I'll ask him about what he went through, what he's
Speaker 1: doing now, and his work where President Trump on criminal
Speaker 1: justice reform. Let's go. Well, then, I'm really excited to
Speaker 1: have you on out loud what Giano called. Well, we've
Speaker 1: been talking about cannabis, uh, in terms of on television,
Speaker 1: radio media. The country has been talking about it for
Speaker 1: quite a while, and your story, I think is one
Speaker 1: which is one of the most fascinating I've heard. I
Speaker 1: learned about it many many years ago, probably about four
Speaker 1: years ago, when you were released from jail, when Senator
Speaker 1: Mike Lee of Utah, actually I believe he wrote an
Speaker 1: op add on it. So I wanna just start off
Speaker 1: the conversation before we dig into cannabis the criminal justice
Speaker 1: reform aspect of it. I wanted to have you take
Speaker 1: my listeners through your life story and what happened to you.
Speaker 1: Tell us about what life was like before you were
Speaker 1: arrested and ultimately sentenced to prison in two thousand and four. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so um for that, I would say. Back going back
Speaker 1: to around nineties ninety six, I started working on a
Speaker 1: career in the music industry. UM. I had, um, somehow
Speaker 1: made my way into the hip hop world. UM with
Speaker 1: a lot of the folks silver at Death Row Records,
Speaker 1: including Snoop Dogg's group The Dog Pound and two pops
Speaker 1: group Outlaws, And a few years after that, I ended
Speaker 1: up founding my own record label, and Snoop Dogg, you know,
Speaker 1: gave me an opportunity to produce some music with him.
Speaker 1: Ended up at his house making some records and producing
Speaker 1: a whole album with Snoop, And you know, my career
Speaker 1: just sort of took off from there, and I started
Speaker 1: working with some of the biggest names in the industry,
Speaker 1: and I sort of put myself in the crosshairs of
Speaker 1: the of the federal government. Um. You know, back in
Speaker 1: my hometown of Salt Lake City, Utah, where I was
Speaker 1: bringing you know, Snoop and mac dray and all the
Speaker 1: people I was working with, you know, to do shows
Speaker 1: and and just kind of opened up the scene there,
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, it was something that was kind
Speaker 1: of new, you know, to that to that town at
Speaker 1: the time, and so the authorities thought there must be
Speaker 1: something going on here, you know, outside of music, and
Speaker 1: so they sent a confidential informant to come try to
Speaker 1: you know, see what was going on. And you know,
Speaker 1: really all it was was making records and smoking cannabis, UM,
Speaker 1: And so the informants decided to buy some of the
Speaker 1: cannabis and it was just like a few hundred dollars
Speaker 1: worth on three occasions, was nothing, no profit made. It
Speaker 1: was just like here you go, UM. And the federal
Speaker 1: government attempted to you know, get guns and coke and meth,
Speaker 1: and you know that wasn't what was happening. You know,
Speaker 1: we were just making music and and you know, smoking
Speaker 1: cannabis and UM. When they realized that they weren't going
Speaker 1: to get anything else, they indicted me Um on a
Speaker 1: few counts, hoping that that would lead to enough pressure
Speaker 1: to bring down people in hip hop. And when it
Speaker 1: didn't and we laughed at them for what they were
Speaker 1: trying to do, they secured superseding indictments where they ended
Speaker 1: up turning these three cannabis charges, you know, worth nine
Speaker 1: dollars total into a twenty count federal indictment where I'm
Speaker 1: facing a hundred years of mandatory imprisonment. Um because of
Speaker 1: you know, how how the case you know, initially started. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, there was really no trust for me and
Speaker 1: my attorneys and on their end, and so you know,
Speaker 1: it forced a trial and I you know, once some
Speaker 1: counts but lost most of them, ended up with the
Speaker 1: fifty five year sentence. The sentence was so extreme even
Speaker 1: the sentencing judge, who was a very conservative George W.
Speaker 1: Bush appointee, UM, that caused him to balk at the
Speaker 1: sentence and um, you know, question the legitimacy of the
Speaker 1: system and of the prosecutor's charging decisions. And so he
Speaker 1: actually called on the president that appointed him to pardon me.
Speaker 1: As he was handing down the sentence. He said, you know,
Speaker 1: my hands are tied. I can't do anything, but this
Speaker 1: sentence is cruel, unjustin irrational, and so I call him
Speaker 1: the president to you know, commute the sentence. UM. And
Speaker 1: then a few years later he stepped down, he stepped
Speaker 1: down from office, became my chief advocate, and other people joined,
Speaker 1: other people joined his chorus. You know, we had a
Speaker 1: Janet Reno, who was the attorney general for Bill Clinton.
Speaker 1: We had a hundred and something you know, former federal judges,
Speaker 1: former federal prosecutors, um, and then a former prosecutor in
Speaker 1: that office who didn't you know, wasn't assigned to my case.
Speaker 1: His name was Mike Lee. He was elected to the
Speaker 1: Senate in two thousand ten, and he remembered what my
Speaker 1: judge said. I mean, the whole legal community across the
Speaker 1: country knew my judge and his his sixty seven page opinion.
Speaker 1: And so you know, this unlikely Allies coalition to get
Speaker 1: me out was sort of you know born and and
Speaker 1: it and it consisted of you know, friends from the
Speaker 1: music industry, you know, people like Snoop Dogg and and
Speaker 1: Bonnie Rayit and Mike Gepps and Alicia Keys, with these
Speaker 1: political figures like Mike Lee and Corey Booker Um and
Speaker 1: Rand Paul and even the Koch brothers. You know, eventually,
Speaker 1: you know got behind you know, the effort to get
Speaker 1: me out and and it was more to do with
Speaker 1: not myself being you know, an extraordinary person that was
Speaker 1: my judge, um that really you know, made all of
Speaker 1: these individuals rally around my um my cause to get
Speaker 1: me out of jail. Now, you know, I had never
Speaker 1: ever ever in my life, and I'm sure most people
Speaker 1: can attest you don't rarely, if ever, I mean, this
Speaker 1: has thee one situation I would say, but you rarely
Speaker 1: if ever see a judge say that, hey, I don't
Speaker 1: want to give you this sentence, but his mandatory minimum.
Speaker 1: That's what we have to do. But then to go
Speaker 1: from there to then be an advocate for you as
Speaker 1: a Republican even more so especially you know, Republicans are
Speaker 1: tough on crime. Uh. To to say that this was
Speaker 1: unreasonable and then have other Republicans as well as Democrats
Speaker 1: come together to say that it was unreasonable treatment for
Speaker 1: the crime. Uh. Now, we gotta keep in mind, deek
Speaker 1: U states all across the country of decriminalized a small
Speaker 1: amount of marijuana. Twenty seven states, including the District of Columbia.
Speaker 1: Poland has showed that almost seventy of Americans, if not more,
Speaker 1: at this point believe in legalization of marijuana. But I
Speaker 1: gotta ask you this question, because during this time you
Speaker 1: were in your music career, You're dealing with people like
Speaker 1: Snoop Dogg, who's obviously legendary, and you never really see
Speaker 1: him without marijuana smoking anyway. I mean, that's what has
Speaker 1: been for years. But why were you selling marijuana to
Speaker 1: begin with? Yeah? So, so as I said, it wasn't like,
Speaker 1: you know, we were out there, Hey, who wants some weed?
Speaker 1: This guy came and asked to buy some of our weed.
Speaker 1: It wasn't like, you know, it was three hundred dollars worth.
Speaker 1: I mean, I just I just signed a multimillion dollar
Speaker 1: record deal, So three hundred dollars worth the cannabis and
Speaker 1: makes fifty bucks or something is not a profitable I
Speaker 1: didn't do it for profits. So this informant was a
Speaker 1: guy that you know, used to be from my hood
Speaker 1: when when I was younger. You know, he was from
Speaker 1: our gang. And and and so he got out of prison,
Speaker 1: you know he did he did he did a nickel,
Speaker 1: went to prison, did five, got out, he caught another case.
Speaker 1: And he had just had a kid, or at least
Speaker 1: you know, he was going to have a kid, and
Speaker 1: so he didn't want to go back. He was like,
Speaker 1: I'm done with this ship, I'm done with this lifestyle.
Speaker 1: And at this point, you know, I was in the music,
Speaker 1: I was out of the street life and all that.
Speaker 1: You know, I was done with that. He got out
Speaker 1: and made it seem like he was too. So he
Speaker 1: was like, I just need to make some money too,
Speaker 1: you know, I got I got, I got a kid,
Speaker 1: and I just need to you know, hustle. And so
Speaker 1: I'm like, huh, you go take some you know, go
Speaker 1: do what you gotta do. And so, um, you know,
Speaker 1: that's really how it started. And um, you know, all
Speaker 1: over that little bit of money. And you know he
Speaker 1: was asking, he was you know, they were trying to
Speaker 1: come up with enough um, you know, charges to pressure
Speaker 1: me and hopes that it would lead to the arrest
Speaker 1: of a famous rap artist. And know, the Feds have
Speaker 1: been wanting to get Snoop Snooped for a long time,
Speaker 1: anyone they really wanted, anyone. They you know, they've never
Speaker 1: seen that here. And and another reason, you know, that's
Speaker 1: just you know, one of the motives. The other motive was,
Speaker 1: you know, what we found out later was that some
Speaker 1: of these prosecutors and agents looked at me like I
Speaker 1: was bringing Ebola, you know, into Utah, and they wanted
Speaker 1: to keep it out and so um and and you
Speaker 1: know a lot of these prosecutors and agents they're not
Speaker 1: from like Salt Lake City itself. Salway City is very diverse.
Speaker 1: So a lot of people, you know, they just say, Utah, Oh,
Speaker 1: it's all Mormons. Well, when you go to the city,
Speaker 1: it's very diverse, it's very liberal. But when you leave
Speaker 1: the city and in the county, it gets very conservative
Speaker 1: and very Mormon. And so that you know, that's where
Speaker 1: you know, most of these prosecutors and agents are from.
Speaker 1: They didn't want that culture being brought to this city. Um.
Speaker 1: And so you know that there was two prompted. You know,
Speaker 1: it was very racially motivated case. Um. And so in addition,
Speaker 1: if they felt like they could you know, arrest somebody
Speaker 1: famous and gets headlines and you know, get some promotions,
Speaker 1: you know, all the better. And I just want to
Speaker 1: note that the lead prosecutor in this case got an
Speaker 1: award from the Attorney General under the George Bush administration.
Speaker 1: He got an award with my name on it for
Speaker 1: the successful prosecution of Well and Angelo and so um,
Speaker 1: you know, the case was, it was a big case.
Speaker 1: And then the lead gaining an officer who was a
Speaker 1: state agent named Jason Magron. He got promoted to be
Speaker 1: the chief of police for a city called mid Bellum,
Speaker 1: which is just you know, outside of Salt Lake. And
Speaker 1: so you know that this is the whole motivation for
Speaker 1: prosecute me had nothing to do with, oh, we we
Speaker 1: really want to take this guy down for this little
Speaker 1: bit of weed. You know, there was other motivations that play, um,
Speaker 1: that have nothing to do with justice, right, So they
Speaker 1: wanted to get you so they can really get you
Speaker 1: to flip on Snoop or somebody else like that, to
Speaker 1: to to really have a big win. As we know
Speaker 1: normally happens when prosecut you just get involved at any level,
Speaker 1: whether they be federal prosecutor state or local, local county,
Speaker 1: whatever the deal may be. So let me ask you
Speaker 1: this question. Do you believe that you should have went
Speaker 1: to jail at all for this or you just feel
Speaker 1: that the sentence was obviously way too harsh. Well, I'll
Speaker 1: frame it this way, and this is something my judge
Speaker 1: actually looked into and he was trying to figure out,
Speaker 1: you know what he could do besides sentenced me, and
Speaker 1: so he was getting information from various sources. He asked
Speaker 1: the jury what an appropriate sentence would be. He reached
Speaker 1: out to the state system to figure out what would
Speaker 1: what would be the no time I would serve in
Speaker 1: the state if I were prosecuting the state, because what
Speaker 1: happened really is a state charge. It wasn't federal. There's
Speaker 1: nothing uniquely federal about these charges. It was just the
Speaker 1: way they charged it because under the state law, I
Speaker 1: couldn't be prosecuted to to much extent. And so he
Speaker 1: found out that I could have received a misdemeanor and
Speaker 1: probation um and and that have had I went to
Speaker 1: jail in the state system, that probably would have been
Speaker 1: you know, sit months or less. And this is back
Speaker 1: in two thousand and you know too when my case happened.
Speaker 1: I got charged in two thousand two, So in two
Speaker 1: thousand two, back then I probably could have you know,
Speaker 1: and I probably wouldn't have even seen jail or a
Speaker 1: felony because I met it was my first adult offense,
Speaker 1: and so you know, that was telling. And even my
Speaker 1: prosecutor's boss, um, who was the head u S attorney,
Speaker 1: he said you know, he felt that under the state system,
Speaker 1: I probably would have got probation. Um, realistically, Um, you know,
Speaker 1: even though the max you know, would have been you know,
Speaker 1: zero to five years, but under the state guidelines it
Speaker 1: would have been zero months. And so, you know, should
Speaker 1: I have went to prison, well under the state law,
Speaker 1: according to state law, no, um. And so I don't
Speaker 1: think no prison was warranted. I mean, it's it's some weed,
Speaker 1: you know. Um. And I had a career, you know,
Speaker 1: had some young kids. Um, you know, I had just
Speaker 1: made it out of poverty myself with a you know,
Speaker 1: unique opportunity to do something that you know, only few
Speaker 1: in this world gonna do. And it was taken away
Speaker 1: over some bullshit, in my opinion. And the judge, of course,
Speaker 1: who presided over your case, called the sentence unjust, cruel
Speaker 1: and irrational and wanted you to receive less time. But
Speaker 1: according to him, there was nothing that he can do. Well, um,
Speaker 1: so you know, all he could do, he felt like
Speaker 1: he could do is go down kicking and screaming, and
Speaker 1: you know that's what he did. And he felt like,
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of people didn't like that. A
Speaker 1: judge gets emotionally attached to a case, and so you
Speaker 1: know a lot of people asked him, like why did
Speaker 1: you get so involved in the case, and he was like, well,
Speaker 1: somebody had to speak up for Mr Angelos, you know,
Speaker 1: because obviously he couldn't do it himself, and so it
Speaker 1: had to be him. And so, you know, when I
Speaker 1: was in the courtroom, you know, I knew that there
Speaker 1: was an effort to find the sentence unconstitutional, and so
Speaker 1: I knew my judge spent a lot of time, you know,
Speaker 1: researching this, and he we briefed it, you know, over
Speaker 1: and over and over, trying to figure out the unconstitutional
Speaker 1: for him to impose such a lengthy sentence on such
Speaker 1: low level conduct. And unfortunately, our Supreme Court precedent is
Speaker 1: lacking under the Eighth Amendment, and so you know, he
Speaker 1: could not find a way out. And you know, I
Speaker 1: kind of figured I was going to get you know,
Speaker 1: the minimum mandatory, which was fifty five years and one
Speaker 1: day UM, possibly more um, even though he was trying
Speaker 1: to impose a sentence around ten years UM, which was
Speaker 1: still the max under the guidelines, because the prosecutors could
Speaker 1: have charged me under the sentencing guidelines rather than the
Speaker 1: mandatory minimums, where I would have received you know, anywhere
Speaker 1: from six and a half to you know, maximum of
Speaker 1: ten years, which likely would have been probably around like
Speaker 1: seven or eight if they would have charged me into
Speaker 1: the guidelines. Um, but they wanted to charge him the
Speaker 1: mandatory minimums, you know, to try to you know, get
Speaker 1: me to flip or just to put maxi amount of
Speaker 1: pressure on me to accept a very unjust plea offer.
Speaker 1: And so you know, when I was in the courtroom,
Speaker 1: and you know, I didn't know what the judge was
Speaker 1: gonna do. My attorney didn't know. He had never encountered
Speaker 1: a case like this before, so we none of us
Speaker 1: knew what was going to happen. And you know, when
Speaker 1: it came time, you know, I knew what was happening.
Speaker 1: When he said, after careful deliberation, I reluctantly conclude, I
Speaker 1: knew it was over with. He said, I reluctantly conclude
Speaker 1: that I have no choice but to impose a fifty
Speaker 1: five years sentence, you know, and then he imposed one
Speaker 1: day for the additional charges, and so, um, you know
Speaker 1: it was over with. And you know that's when you know,
Speaker 1: I knew the fight to get me out began. You know,
Speaker 1: we were we had multiple attempts to appeal the case,
Speaker 1: you know, to no avail. You know, our court system,
Speaker 1: our appellate system is a joke. Um, you know, you
Speaker 1: rarely succeed. They you know, stacked the deck against you.
Speaker 1: And so you know, we really had no other option
Speaker 1: but to hope, uh, you know, a progressive president would
Speaker 1: you know, get elected, and um, you know, we could
Speaker 1: seek a commutation. Before we move on, you need to
Speaker 1: take a break. Let me ask you this question. What
Speaker 1: was it like in that moment when you heard from
Speaker 1: the judge and he handed you down a fifty five
Speaker 1: year sentence for something that's clearly not worth while. Five
Speaker 1: years and I'm even listening to you say, well, if
Speaker 1: it was under a sentence and guidelines, then maybe it
Speaker 1: would have been sixty teen years. This this wasn't drug
Speaker 1: kingpin level crime. It was a crime so that we
Speaker 1: would call it what it is. But it wasn't something
Speaker 1: like you're selling crack and you're getting all these people addicted.
Speaker 1: This was less than a thousand dollars. And honestly speaking, nowadays,
Speaker 1: you I've seen people with the cannabis as I've been
Speaker 1: researching and talking about it, that doesn't really get you
Speaker 1: much these days if you spent a few hundred dollars
Speaker 1: on cannabis. So it's it's kind of interesting to hear
Speaker 1: your story. What was it like in that moment when
Speaker 1: you heard fifty five years? Well, like I said, you know,
Speaker 1: I was expecting something around them because the three there's
Speaker 1: three charges out of those sixteen, one of them was
Speaker 1: five years, the other two or twenty five and they
Speaker 1: must be served consecutively. So I knew there was at
Speaker 1: least a fifty five year mandatory minimum just on those
Speaker 1: three council loan. And it was because the way the
Speaker 1: agents and prosecutors stacked my sentence. Now, for instance, if
Speaker 1: they really thought I was this dangerous person that they
Speaker 1: made me out to be before the judge and trial
Speaker 1: and sentencing, they really made me out to be this
Speaker 1: you know, dangerous you know, gun slinging, you know kingpin
Speaker 1: with three worth the Canadas. You know, it was really ridiculous.
Speaker 1: They looked really stupid, and they tried to compare my
Speaker 1: case to be as being worse than second degree murder,
Speaker 1: worse than child rate, worse than terrorism, um, and you
Speaker 1: know it was laughable, um and so um, yeah, it
Speaker 1: was just real crazy man and um, you know, the judge,
Speaker 1: he had no choice. And so when I heard the
Speaker 1: fifty five years sentence, you know, it just confirmed what
Speaker 1: I already you know, thought was gonna happen, and that
Speaker 1: you know, the fight to get me out would have
Speaker 1: to happen on appeal, you know. And and you know,
Speaker 1: but when I heard him call on the president, I
Speaker 1: didn't know. I knew he thought the sentence was unjust.
Speaker 1: He said, you know, in the very beginning, like eight
Speaker 1: months before the sentence thing, he said, the sentence appears
Speaker 1: to be cruel on justin r rational um, and he
Speaker 1: trying to find a way out. So but when he
Speaker 1: sentenced me and he said that, you know, I call
Speaker 1: on the president to commute the sentence to something more
Speaker 1: you know, more reasonable and more just. You know, that
Speaker 1: gave me some hope. Um. You know, I didn't. I
Speaker 1: didn't have a lot of confidence in Bush, um, you know,
Speaker 1: because you know Bush was not uh somebody who was
Speaker 1: courageous and and and super immerciful um. And neither was
Speaker 1: his staff. Um. So I really didn't think there was
Speaker 1: much of a chance there. My hope was, you know,
Speaker 1: in the next administration, because when I got sentenced. You know,
Speaker 1: Bush just one re election and so we were stuck
Speaker 1: with him for another four years. UM. And so you know,
Speaker 1: my hope was in the appill at court. UM. But
Speaker 1: while we were you know, working on a hill in
Speaker 1: this UM, we were building support from as many people
Speaker 1: as possible, and it was growing every day. You know,
Speaker 1: we had a hundred and sixty three you know, former
Speaker 1: d J officials, former federal judges, UM. And then you know,
Speaker 1: we we just kept building and building support and and
Speaker 1: just trying to get as many people behind. You know,
Speaker 1: my case is possible to get me out now and
Speaker 1: that and that's really interesting to hear this, this major
Speaker 1: bipartisan effort. And I want to get into that in
Speaker 1: a moment, but I want to ask you, so, when
Speaker 1: you went to jail, what was the prison experience like,
Speaker 1: especially considering what you went in there for. You're in
Speaker 1: there with hardened criminals, murderers. You're in there with real
Speaker 1: drug kingpins, people who are probably made millions or hundreds
Speaker 1: of thousands of dollars selling drugs, and murderers and all
Speaker 1: this other stuff. What was that experience like for you?
Speaker 1: Were you afraid for your life or what was it? Now?
Speaker 1: I wasn't afraid for my life, but I was because
Speaker 1: you know this, I was young and I was hard
Speaker 1: headed and um. You know, but when I when I
Speaker 1: got to prison, I was expecting to go to like
Speaker 1: a camp or like a low security prison. UM. When
Speaker 1: when the bus pulled up to lom Poke, Um, there's
Speaker 1: three prisons there. There's a camp which is basically you're
Speaker 1: not you don't even have a gate to hold you in.
Speaker 1: You don't have like a fense. You know, you can
Speaker 1: wander around. You know, it's pretty you know, it's pretty
Speaker 1: low key, like you can, you know, pretty much do
Speaker 1: what you want. Um. And then they have a low
Speaker 1: security that is, you know, has offense, but you know
Speaker 1: it's really lacks. Then you got the USP, which is
Speaker 1: a maximum security where they send people with life and
Speaker 1: violent you know offensive. And when the bus stopped at
Speaker 1: the camp, you know, I heard the drivers say I
Speaker 1: got one person for the camp, the rest are going
Speaker 1: to the USP, and I'm like, that's gotta be me.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not. It's a marijuana charge. You know,
Speaker 1: I've been never been to prison. You know, had a
Speaker 1: juvenile gun charge but it was expunged. So under the system,
Speaker 1: I was treated as the first defenders. So you know,
Speaker 1: I'm getting up, like that's gotta be me. And then
Speaker 1: I look to the side of me and I see
Speaker 1: this square. You know, little young white kid that was
Speaker 1: talking about he was in there for, you know, like
Speaker 1: some kind of computer case that he got one year.
Speaker 1: And when I looked at him, like, shit, I'm dead, dude,
Speaker 1: that's here, that's his spot. He's getting out here, not me.
Speaker 1: I got too much time, you know, because usually you
Speaker 1: gotta have under ten years to go to the camp.
Speaker 1: And you know, because I had a fifty five years sentence,
Speaker 1: I was considered a public safety risk. And with the
Speaker 1: camp you can walk off and leave if you want,
Speaker 1: you know, you just escape, you just walk home, you know. Um,
Speaker 1: and then they'll put out a warrant for you. So
Speaker 1: it's not really a big deal because the campers are
Speaker 1: considered minimal risk. Um. And so you know, when I
Speaker 1: walked in the USP, it looked like everything you see
Speaker 1: in the movies. Um, it was a very dangerous prison. Um.
Speaker 1: It was. It was crazy. And I was like, ship
Speaker 1: all this for you know, nine hundred dollars worth the weed,
Speaker 1: Like it was just I can't believe this um, and
Speaker 1: I just have to do my best to adjust to it,
Speaker 1: you know, and and you know, put put my bury
Speaker 1: myself in law books so I could figure out, you know,
Speaker 1: how I got here and how I'm gonna get myself out.
Speaker 1: And just the point of clarification, because I heard you
Speaker 1: mentioned that it was three hundred dollars worth a weed,
Speaker 1: and I heard you mentioned it was nine hundred? Was
Speaker 1: it three hundred times? You know, multiple times you gave
Speaker 1: him the three times? Okay, that's what it was. He
Speaker 1: got three worth on three occasions. Okay, got you? Okay,
Speaker 1: now I hear that, all right. So you ended up
Speaker 1: being released from prison due to a remarkable bipartisan effort.
Speaker 1: Can you walk us through what that looked like? Because
Speaker 1: you were in there for quite a while before you
Speaker 1: were ever released. So what was that that time like?
Speaker 1: In the in between? So you know, I spent most
Speaker 1: of my time thinking I'm getting out that year. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, we had to prepare for him at Peal
Speaker 1: when I first went to prison. You know, I think
Speaker 1: I was in there for a year before our appeal.
Speaker 1: You know, I was ready for decision and we thought
Speaker 1: we were winning. We had oral arguments, the appellate court
Speaker 1: was scolding the prosecutor, you know, telling him, you know,
Speaker 1: he's ridiculous for thinking the sentences just And more importantly,
Speaker 1: there was an illegal search and seizure where they used
Speaker 1: illegally seized evidence to convict me at trial. And that's
Speaker 1: with my best hope for coming home, because yeah, so
Speaker 1: they they entered one of my homes without a search
Speaker 1: warrant and they took all this evidence that made me
Speaker 1: look like I was a gang member. And that's really
Speaker 1: what they wanted the jury to see me as like
Speaker 1: this violent gang member. And they used a lot of
Speaker 1: hip hop stuff they and actually wrapped lyrics at my trial.
Speaker 1: The prosecutor rapped lyrics in his closing argument, and he
Speaker 1: began his clothing argument rapping lyrics from a mac Dre
Speaker 1: song that I produced, and you know, suggesting to the
Speaker 1: jury that that's what this case is all about. And so,
Speaker 1: you know, they put up pictures of like the LBC
Speaker 1: East Side like Snoop clothing and said this is gang attire. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, the LBC stuff East Siders. You know, all
Speaker 1: this stuff was um, you know, all hip hop gear,
Speaker 1: you know, And they put up pictures of like tupac
Speaker 1: and a vest and get the cent in the vest
Speaker 1: and was just like, you know, this man is dangerous.
Speaker 1: They would put those pictures up next to you know,
Speaker 1: other you know, like firearms and stuff like that to
Speaker 1: make the jury, you know, fear fear me. And they
Speaker 1: did a good job because the first day at trial,
Speaker 1: one of the jurors expressed safety concerns to the judge
Speaker 1: and that's when I knew I was going to be
Speaker 1: hit at trial. Um. And so you know they you know,
Speaker 1: it was it was just a you know, it was
Speaker 1: a terrible, terrible trial. The government just went out of
Speaker 1: their way just to you know, win the case. They
Speaker 1: wanted to win at all cost um and so um.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so you know, back to back to the
Speaker 1: prison setting. You know, I'm sitting there and I got
Speaker 1: this fifty five year sentence. I'm in a maximum security penitentiary. Um,
Speaker 1: and there's people around me that are killers. You know,
Speaker 1: people are getting stabbed. It's just a crazy prisons anything
Speaker 1: like you see in the movies. And you know I
Speaker 1: had to just you know, really bury myself in the books.
Speaker 1: We had, you know, my first appeal where the Court
Speaker 1: of Appeals appeared as though they were going to throw
Speaker 1: out my conviction and give me a new trial. And
Speaker 1: when it came time for decision, you know, they flipped
Speaker 1: the script completely and actually took shots at my judge.
Speaker 1: So they really looked at this as like, we don't
Speaker 1: want judges doing what. No, but no, the no, the
Speaker 1: higher court, the higher court who we we appealed to
Speaker 1: the higher Court to try to get my trial overturned
Speaker 1: so I can get a new trial. Because if I
Speaker 1: got a new trial, there's no way they can convict me,
Speaker 1: because now we know all the flaws in their case
Speaker 1: that they used to convict me on BS charges and
Speaker 1: so there was these enhancements that they made up at
Speaker 1: the last minute, and that's really what triggered the the
Speaker 1: long sentence. And so you know, we basically knew, you know,
Speaker 1: how flawed their case was. You know, their witnesses were lying,
Speaker 1: the agents were lying, the prosecutors were hiding evidence. We
Speaker 1: found the evidence, and so a new trial there's no
Speaker 1: way they could win. I would go home after the
Speaker 1: trial be free. And so, um, you know, they did
Speaker 1: everything they could to paint me as this bad guy
Speaker 1: at the appellate court. Lets me go that you know,
Speaker 1: the streets are going to be unsafe now. Like it
Speaker 1: was just really a crazy, crazy kangaroo court. And so,
Speaker 1: you know, the judges appeared in the beginning they were
Speaker 1: gonna throw out my conviction. When it came time for decision,
Speaker 1: they reverse course, and they took shots at my judge
Speaker 1: in the entire opinion, basically stating that he, um, he
Speaker 1: what he liked, he didn't take the case serious enough.
Speaker 1: He you know, he severely undermined the seriousness of my offense. Um,
Speaker 1: and just completely flipped the script from what they were
Speaker 1: talking about at the oral arguments and said that you know,
Speaker 1: they basically wanted to discipline my judge and tell them,
Speaker 1: you know, like, don't do this. This is not how
Speaker 1: we get down his judges, and he he wouldn't listen
Speaker 1: to them. He kept speaking out testified before congress um
Speaker 1: and and other judges followed his uh, his suit. Other judges,
Speaker 1: you know, uh did what he did and started reaching
Speaker 1: out to the jury and started looking at these sentences
Speaker 1: and you know, to wondering if they're even just or not,
Speaker 1: and find trying to find ways around them. And so
Speaker 1: so yeah, so I end up losing the first appeal
Speaker 1: and then we took it to the Supreme Court, which
Speaker 1: was denied in two thousand seven. And then you know
Speaker 1: that really the campaign for Clement became meaning meaning they
Speaker 1: didn't take the case up. That's what you're saying when
Speaker 1: you said it was then they almost did. Because in
Speaker 1: order to go to the Supreme Court, you gotta have
Speaker 1: four votes of the nine Supreme Court justices. Four justices
Speaker 1: have to vote in favor of it. They three. They
Speaker 1: twice delayed my case had a vote I think three times.
Speaker 1: The first two times they couldn't come to a decision,
Speaker 1: which is crazy because the Supreme Court only takes about
Speaker 1: eight cases out of like literally tens of thousands every year,
Speaker 1: and so there was you know, uh, some justices there
Speaker 1: that were obviously interested in my case, and so they
Speaker 1: kept delaying it, um, you know, delaying a decision, and
Speaker 1: finally they on the third vote, they didn't get four
Speaker 1: justices to vote in my favor and they didn't hear it.
Speaker 1: And so, um, you know, now now our focus needs
Speaker 1: to be clemency with the president. And you know, my
Speaker 1: case was really framed for clemency because my judge's opinion, um,
Speaker 1: you know, really framed this um for for a clemency case.
Speaker 1: And so you know, we were just really waiting for
Speaker 1: Bush to get out of office, and you know, we
Speaker 1: made a run with him at the last you know,
Speaker 1: his last few months, which wasn't successful. UM. And then UM,
Speaker 1: you know, when Obama was elected, you know, I thought,
Speaker 1: for sure, this is it, it's over with UM. But
Speaker 1: he didn't do anything for his first four years, first
Speaker 1: six years actually, and so you know I had to
Speaker 1: sit in there for all those years waiting for Obama
Speaker 1: to to take some action for his administration. And it
Speaker 1: was really frustrating that, you know, such a progressive administration
Speaker 1: did nothing for the first fourth you know, five six years. UM.
Speaker 1: And then in two thousand and UM, I think it
Speaker 1: was two thousand and late two thousand thirteen, the very
Speaker 1: end of two thousand thirteen, I think it was December,
Speaker 1: he commuted eight sentences and launched a clemency program. That's
Speaker 1: when you know, it really heated up for us, and
Speaker 1: we had a you know, a letter that went to
Speaker 1: him that was signed by you know, hundreds of people
Speaker 1: from you know, the entertainment industry, you know, political figures.
Speaker 1: And then my case became the poster child for a
Speaker 1: criminal Justice Reform bill that ran Paul or not Rand
Speaker 1: Paul Rand Paul. You know, he brought up my case
Speaker 1: before the Senate, but it was a bill that Mike
Speaker 1: Lee and Corey Booker were pushing. And and so five yeah,
Speaker 1: five senators, five U S. Senators were talking about my
Speaker 1: case during these Senate hearings. Um and even my prosecutor's boss,
Speaker 1: who who he left the US A Treaties Office, he
Speaker 1: was the head prosecutor there. He actually testified before Mike
Speaker 1: Lee and said that my sentence was wrong and unjust.
Speaker 1: And so now I had the support of not only
Speaker 1: five senators, I have the support of my prosecutor's boss
Speaker 1: and my judge and you know, all these former you know, officials,
Speaker 1: and so you know, that's really when the campaign to
Speaker 1: get me out really heated up. Now It's interesting because
Speaker 1: I've been hearing how you you talked, you know about
Speaker 1: something like folks that are really tough on crime. Republicans
Speaker 1: have always been really tough on crime, but really Republicans
Speaker 1: were a saving grace for you, if if I'm hearing
Speaker 1: it correctly, you've had bipartisan support with the former members
Speaker 1: of the d o J. And I'm a conservative too,
Speaker 1: So of course I'm gonna mention this kind of thing, right, So,
Speaker 1: he've had bipartisan members of the d o J who
Speaker 1: were helpful. Senator Mike Lee, as I understand it, and
Speaker 1: you correct me if I'm wrong, as I understand that
Speaker 1: he was the person who put um your part and
Speaker 1: before Barack Obama in the White House, um for clemency, pardon, whatever.
Speaker 1: So so the Republicans have been helpful in his fighting
Speaker 1: in this journey for criminal criminal justice reform, especially for
Speaker 1: for you and others like you. Absolutely. So, you know,
Speaker 1: my judge was, you know, a Federalist Society judge, and
Speaker 1: so he was one of the super conservative. He was
Speaker 1: so conservative that he fought for the to the for
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court to overturn miranda rights. He fought to
Speaker 1: get rid of the exclusionary rule that says if if
Speaker 1: agents violate your Fourth Amendment rights, that they can still
Speaker 1: use the evidence evidence against you. So if agents come
Speaker 1: in your house with no warrant and just start looking
Speaker 1: and find drugs, my judge thought they could still use
Speaker 1: it against you. It didn't matter. And that's how conservative
Speaker 1: he was, and that's what made some conservatives listen to
Speaker 1: him and like, maybe we got this wrong. Maybe we are.
Speaker 1: And he made a real strong conservative case for criminal
Speaker 1: justice reform, and so a lot of people like Chuck
Speaker 1: Grass Lee and others, and Mike Lee especially. This is
Speaker 1: why Mike Lee got in criminal justice reform because of
Speaker 1: my judge and so, you know, and and being prosecuted
Speaker 1: in such a conservative state. You know, the only people
Speaker 1: that could help me was Mike Lee and Oorn Hatch,
Speaker 1: and Oorn Hatch waited until after all these other people
Speaker 1: came out to help me before he opened his mouth.
Speaker 1: And so, um, really, Mike Lee, I credit him for
Speaker 1: for why I'm free right now and why I was
Speaker 1: subsequently parted by President Trump. Um. And so you know,
Speaker 1: I gotta give a lot of credit to Mike Lee
Speaker 1: and the conservatives and you know, the Koch brothers obviously
Speaker 1: they joined Mike Lee's call um to you know, get
Speaker 1: me out of jail. And so you know, it was
Speaker 1: and there was other you know, it was bipartisan because
Speaker 1: he had Corey Booker and and some entertainers. But you know,
Speaker 1: Mike Lee, I think is really what got me over
Speaker 1: the finish line, because Mike Lee made me the poster
Speaker 1: child for Reform and argued that I never should have
Speaker 1: gotten the sentence because yeah, there was a there was
Speaker 1: an incorrect interpretation under the law. Uh that that never
Speaker 1: should have you know, happened in my case because the
Speaker 1: Supreme Court incorrectly interpreted the statue. And so the First
Speaker 1: Step at clarified that now prosecutors cannot seek and and
Speaker 1: and and get a fifty five year sentence for someone
Speaker 1: like myself. Ever, again, it's over with. And so you know,
Speaker 1: when I got out, you know, in in in two
Speaker 1: thousand sixteen, you know, we got a couple of people
Speaker 1: out under Obama's administration. When Trump was elected, we were like, okay, look,
Speaker 1: you know, it's gonna be four years before we get
Speaker 1: anything done. And surprisingly we were invited to the White
Speaker 1: House UM for the prison reform summits, and so, you know,
Speaker 1: I developed a relationship with the Trump administration, UM with
Speaker 1: my friends Ron Smith, who was actually a part of
Speaker 1: the Coke network before that UM and then ultimately Vonka
Speaker 1: and so you know, me and Drew on worked on
Speaker 1: started working on clemency. And so after we passed the
Speaker 1: First Step Act, you know, we shifted our attention to clemency,
Speaker 1: and you know, I started working with Jared's office and
Speaker 1: Ivanka Trump, and you know, we were able to get
Speaker 1: twelve people out of prison who were serving life for marijuana. UM.
Speaker 1: And so on Trump's last day, he commuted you know
Speaker 1: that what we we we submitted this letter with this list, UM,
Speaker 1: and I hand delivered it. You know, I took I
Speaker 1: went to the White House many times, and you know,
Speaker 1: I handle evered this list and we had a letter
Speaker 1: that was signed by governors and prosecutors and NBA stars
Speaker 1: and you know, I had we had a list of
Speaker 1: individuals that had unjust cannabis sentences and on his last day,
Speaker 1: he granted twelve of them. And he also granted another
Speaker 1: case that actually UM, you know advocated. I brought Snoop
Speaker 1: into the folds, uh and you know, introduced him to
Speaker 1: Ivanka Trump. And you know, we we got Harry oh Out,
Speaker 1: the co founder of death Row Records, and that was
Speaker 1: a case that you know, we worked with and you know,
Speaker 1: Alice Johnson was huge, you know, huge help on UM.
Speaker 1: And so you know, we got a lot done into
Speaker 1: the Trump administration. UM. And you know we're just trying
Speaker 1: to continue that, you know, on to this administration. And
Speaker 1: you know That's why I was part of you know,
Speaker 1: last December by President Trump, because of the work that
Speaker 1: I had done on the First Step Act in in elsewhere. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm really happy to here all the work that you
Speaker 1: had been doing, and I've worked on the First Step
Speaker 1: Act two. I was on Capitol Hill lobbying the passage
Speaker 1: of that that particular bill. But the Trump administration, I
Speaker 1: think probably if they were to leave, when you think
Speaker 1: about legacy, real and true legacy. One of the things
Speaker 1: I think that Donald Trump can certainly help hold his
Speaker 1: head up high and and say that he's proud is
Speaker 1: on the criminal justice reform efforts, because I think he,
Speaker 1: along with Mike Lee and others, had really opened the
Speaker 1: eyes of conservatives across the country as to what was
Speaker 1: really going on. You gotta have fairness when it comes
Speaker 1: to justice. It can't it can't just be you know,
Speaker 1: we're gonna throw the book at you. You gotta examine
Speaker 1: every case with detail. And one of the things that
Speaker 1: I was so disappointed with with the Clinton administration is
Speaker 1: the fact that in this wasn't cannabis. Of course, this
Speaker 1: was the distinction between crack cocaine and cocaine, and the
Speaker 1: sentence and Commissions reports saying that there was a racial
Speaker 1: disparity and they didn't do anything about it. And we've
Speaker 1: seen that time and time again with a number of these,
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, progressive administrations. Not now though, I mean
Speaker 1: they're letting everyone out, but certainly during that during that
Speaker 1: area when we're talking about West Fair, was just and
Speaker 1: what they and they seemingly didn't really move on those issues.
Speaker 1: But Donald Trump did. Do you maintain a relationship with
Speaker 1: the former president to this day? Um, not him, but
Speaker 1: I still have contact with Ivanka um here and there. UM.
Speaker 1: And you know, just the fact that you know, him
Speaker 1: and Snoop have this crazy beef um. You know, and
Speaker 1: we were able to sort of you know, squash that UM.
Speaker 1: And we were able to get that sort of squash
Speaker 1: you know, uh, and and get some work them you
Speaker 1: know before they left. Um. You know, I thought was
Speaker 1: was pretty was was pretty amazing and so UM. So yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, we we got a lot done in the administration,
Speaker 1: and you know, the first step back has resulted in
Speaker 1: you know, the release of sixteen thousand people. Yeah, I know,
Speaker 1: that was crazy. So yeah, I think it was one
Speaker 1: of the biggest reforms, you know since nineteen seventy really, um,
Speaker 1: if you look at at all the different mandatory minimums
Speaker 1: that were reformed, Um, you know, I think it was
Speaker 1: you know, the biggest uh, you know reform since then.
Speaker 1: And you know, we've got to keep going. And you know,
Speaker 1: we're trying to get some work done under this administration.
Speaker 1: And you know, I know it's it's starting off a
Speaker 1: little slow, um, but you know we're hoping to continue going.
Speaker 1: And recently we launched the Cannabis Freedom Alliance with um,
Speaker 1: the cokes Um and Snoop and you know, making it
Speaker 1: bipartisan in order to get more Republicans right. And I
Speaker 1: want to ask you about that in in a in
Speaker 1: a moment, because that that's a huge deal and that's
Speaker 1: one in which you definitely should be congratulated on getting
Speaker 1: the attention to Charles Coke. We're talking to Weldon. Angelo's
Speaker 1: the new face of criminal justice reforms. We've got much
Speaker 1: more with him right after a quick break. Since being released,
Speaker 1: you have become one of the made your faces of
Speaker 1: course of criminal justice reforms. What are your your goals
Speaker 1: for changing the system right now? Right now? I think
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, one of my biggest efforts is
Speaker 1: ending this hypocrisy of allowing large corporations and mostly older,
Speaker 1: you know, white entrepreneurs, you know, allowing them to make
Speaker 1: millions while keeping um, you know, people incarcerated for doing
Speaker 1: the same thing, and predominantly people of color. It's it's
Speaker 1: a crazy hypocrisy. You know, I know someone that's serving
Speaker 1: sixty years for a marijuana fense um while you know,
Speaker 1: these corporations are allowed to make millions for doing the
Speaker 1: same thing, and they're both violating federal statutes. You know,
Speaker 1: it's still illegal. Even though the states have passed you know,
Speaker 1: different laws, it's still illegal federally, and they're not charging them.
Speaker 1: They're picking and choose and you know the winners and wansers,
Speaker 1: and you know, it's just wrong. And so I think,
Speaker 1: you know, we need to end the federal ban and
Speaker 1: let the states decide and that way people can vote
Speaker 1: with their feet um. And you know, the federal prison
Speaker 1: system is is filled up with you know, thousands of
Speaker 1: people you know in there for you know, non violent
Speaker 1: cannabis charges while their way seen you know, the state
Speaker 1: after state legalized. And so you know, that was my
Speaker 1: whole purpose for you know, starting that alliance, because we
Speaker 1: need to we need to pass federal legislation that de
Speaker 1: schedules marijuana on the federal level. UM. And and as
Speaker 1: far as other criminal justice you know, where we're trying
Speaker 1: to get past, you know, various different criminal justice bills
Speaker 1: because there's still a lot of work to be done.
Speaker 1: We have to make the changes in the first step
Speaker 1: back retroactive UM. And that's something that you know, Mike
Speaker 1: leaves a big champion on the statute that gave me
Speaker 1: fifty five years is not retroactive. The people that you know,
Speaker 1: there's people still in there serving you know, longer sentences
Speaker 1: than I had for the same type of conduct because
Speaker 1: that was not retroactive. And so you know, we couldn't
Speaker 1: get it done at the time because of Tom Cotton
Speaker 1: and Ted Cruz, you know who flip flopped on the issue.
Speaker 1: And so you know, now you know, we we have
Speaker 1: a bill that that made that a committee and you know,
Speaker 1: we got to try to get that passed through the Senate. Now, Uh,
Speaker 1: Switching gears a little bit. Charles Cope, the billionaire libertarian,
Speaker 1: was spent a fortune on political causes. He's now actively
Speaker 1: funding efforts to the tune of twenty five million dollars
Speaker 1: to in federal marijuana prohibition. Now, I know you're a
Speaker 1: big part of the reason, at least from what I've read,
Speaker 1: you're a good part of the reason why his Odds
Speaker 1: was open to this, and you reached out to Charles
Speaker 1: Coke and asked them if you would partner with you
Speaker 1: in terms of having fairness in the in the system here,
Speaker 1: especially when what marijuana his view to decriminalize it. Uh,
Speaker 1: what is that relationship like and why did you choose
Speaker 1: to reach out to him that that's a very interesting
Speaker 1: person to reach out to. Yeah. So, um, you know,
Speaker 1: when I had gotten out of jail, we had we
Speaker 1: had a south By Southwest event and I connected h
Speaker 1: Charles Coke and his team was Snoop trying to get
Speaker 1: more work done. You know, we just had a Republican
Speaker 1: president take office, and you know, we needed to try
Speaker 1: to work together to get things done. And interestingly is
Speaker 1: that was the week that the Snoop and Trump be
Speaker 1: freely kicked off. And so it made it kind of
Speaker 1: hard because you know, uh, what's the Marco Rubio and
Speaker 1: Ted Cruz were telling the Coke don't do the event
Speaker 1: with Snoop because he just made that video. You know,
Speaker 1: about Trump, and so it was really hard, you know,
Speaker 1: but we we still did the event, and you know,
Speaker 1: we started, you know, I'm trying to bring my entertainment
Speaker 1: friends over you know, to d C and and and
Speaker 1: meet with you know, political figures, even take him to
Speaker 1: the Trump White House so we can really get some
Speaker 1: reform done. And so, you know, Snoop in the in
Speaker 1: the Coke started, you know, working together because of you know,
Speaker 1: my introduction, and um, we had a zoom call last August.
Speaker 1: I had just gotten Loon out from bad Boy Records
Speaker 1: p did. He's rapper and so we wanted him to
Speaker 1: come on this event. And I had a Snoop, Snoop
Speaker 1: come on. Huh yeah, lou was We had a fourteen
Speaker 1: years sentence, um and so and and you know he
Speaker 1: and when I got out, a lot of hip hop
Speaker 1: industry reached out to me for help, you know, Harry, oh,
Speaker 1: you know death Row because of my connection there. Um,
Speaker 1: you know that was a Snoop's request. And then you
Speaker 1: know a Loon from bad Boy um Rollo who's an
Speaker 1: Atlanta rapper, working to get him out with Drake, working
Speaker 1: with Drake and others to get him out. Um and
Speaker 1: tayd Alla Signs brother and so a lot of people
Speaker 1: in hip hop reached out to me for help, and
Speaker 1: so we you know, I spent about eighteen months trying
Speaker 1: to get Loon out, um. And you know, I took
Speaker 1: his case to the White House and they were this
Speaker 1: close to granting his clemency and then the riots and
Speaker 1: he was in there for just a non violent drug fans.
Speaker 1: He made an introduction to two people who went on
Speaker 1: to do you know, some drug deals, and he got
Speaker 1: caught up in the conspiracy law and so he had
Speaker 1: a fourteen year sentence, and you know, we were very
Speaker 1: close to getting him clemency and then you know that's
Speaker 1: when everything really kicked off and with the pandemic and
Speaker 1: everything else, um, and so they had to shift their
Speaker 1: attention away from criminal justice, and so I used the
Speaker 1: first step back to get him out to the court system.
Speaker 1: And so when we got him out, um, you know,
Speaker 1: we had this event with the Coats and you know,
Speaker 1: I invited Snoop on and me and Charles and Snoop
Speaker 1: had a one on one on this zoom private zoom call.
Speaker 1: And you know, this is like you know, when you
Speaker 1: know something you know and the idea my head based
Speaker 1: on something Charles said about the need to you know,
Speaker 1: end the war on on cannabis. You know, the light
Speaker 1: bulb my head went off, like why don't I reach
Speaker 1: out to them because I'm in the middle of trying
Speaker 1: to you know, end prohibition, and so I reached out
Speaker 1: to his team. Um. Actually, we're at the Hill America
Speaker 1: tour um UH in Atlanta last year, and you know
Speaker 1: that was had the cokes there, had Doug Decent, a
Speaker 1: good friend of mine, um, and you know, that's when
Speaker 1: I brought it up to him for the first time, like,
Speaker 1: you know, we'd like to get your help in this,
Speaker 1: and you know, they were honestly like, you know, we
Speaker 1: had never considered getting into this issue or you know,
Speaker 1: supporting the more active you know, something we've never considered.
Speaker 1: You know, let us think about it. And you know
Speaker 1: it took some months, you know, and then you know,
Speaker 1: I think some time in like February, they said yes,
Speaker 1: let's do it, um, and then we were happy, you know,
Speaker 1: because Charles has a lot of influence over Republicans, and
Speaker 1: then by coming out publicly in favor of legalization, it
Speaker 1: gives other Republicans cover to say, you know, what. I
Speaker 1: agree with this because we we speak to a lot
Speaker 1: of Republicans that are like, you know, prohibition stupid. I
Speaker 1: just don't know that I'm ready to come out publicly
Speaker 1: and say I support it. Um. Now it's easier, you know,
Speaker 1: because you know, we got different you know, Republicans like Charles,
Speaker 1: like you know, um, you know, Mike Lee and others
Speaker 1: that are saying, you know, states should have the right
Speaker 1: to do what they want with regard to their drug laws.
Speaker 1: And so, um, Charles is a perfect ally. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, they his his team spends you know, millions
Speaker 1: every election cycle. I said, I felt like, you know
Speaker 1: with that, um, you know that some of these repub
Speaker 1: lawmakers are going to listen to him. Yeah. And and
Speaker 1: of course, uh Mr Coke has been one who's been
Speaker 1: responsible for a number of Republican wins and at one
Speaker 1: time and probably still now is the biggest funder of
Speaker 1: Republican causes in candidates. So to say that you reached
Speaker 1: out to him, I think is a And he answered
Speaker 1: as a huge, huge deal you and certainly your your
Speaker 1: work with Snoop Dogg bringing them along for the ride.
Speaker 1: On a cultural standpoint, that to have these kind of
Speaker 1: conversations are really important. But let me ask you this question.
Speaker 1: Out of all the things you've experienced thirteen years in jail,
Speaker 1: the entire experience. Now you're a figure that's really well
Speaker 1: known in criminal justice. You're working with billionaires, you're working
Speaker 1: with celebrities to help other people get out of jail.
Speaker 1: Donald Trump was the was the help and to push
Speaker 1: that along. Let me ask you this very important question.
Speaker 1: At all of that and all these experiences that you
Speaker 1: that you had, do you regret selling though that marijuana
Speaker 1: those three times? Do you regret it? No? I mean
Speaker 1: I don't regret it, um from that perspective. I regret
Speaker 1: it from you know, losing my career, and you know,
Speaker 1: regret it from you know, taking that that that risk. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't regret it. I don't think anything's wrong with
Speaker 1: with cannabis. Um. You know, it never should have been
Speaker 1: illegal in the first place, and it definitely should have
Speaker 1: never triggered aft year sentence. But at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, so much good has come out of you
Speaker 1: know that my case. You know, we we we were
Speaker 1: able to change federal law. We're able to do so
Speaker 1: much with regard to that. Um So UM, I don't
Speaker 1: regret it like I regret it from the perspective. I
Speaker 1: regret it from the perspective that you know, doing that
Speaker 1: ruined you know, my career. You know, I my son's lost,
Speaker 1: you know, thirteen years of their life with me, and
Speaker 1: you know, had to live in poverty because of it.
Speaker 1: So I definitely regret it from that perspective. But now
Speaker 1: you have uh an alliance that you you've you've created,
Speaker 1: and can you tell us about your organization that you're
Speaker 1: you're doing now in terms of changing the law, working
Speaker 1: with the Cokes and certainly your organization to change the
Speaker 1: law across the country federally in state by state as well. Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: you know, after we passed the First Step Act, I
Speaker 1: wanted to shift my attention to you know, cannabi's justice,
Speaker 1: and so we launched the Weldon Project, which is a
Speaker 1: five one C three, And then we launched an initiative
Speaker 1: called Project Mission Grain and it's a clemency initiative, but
Speaker 1: really our goal is to end incarceration for marijuana events
Speaker 1: is especially on the federal level um and then shifting
Speaker 1: to the states. And so we launched that and we've
Speaker 1: really been trying to engage people with influence, especially in
Speaker 1: the hip hop community, to get involved. And you know
Speaker 1: that's something we've been very successful at. We just launched
Speaker 1: a campaign with the rapper Russ Um and UM and
Speaker 1: we when we were working with Drake on getting um,
Speaker 1: you know, the the Biden administration to launch a cannabis
Speaker 1: clemency program UM and so, you know, really we're trying
Speaker 1: to unite you know, the entertainment industries, whether it's athletes, um,
Speaker 1: you know, whether it's people in hip hop and bringing
Speaker 1: them to the table with other like minded people, you know,
Speaker 1: such as even conservatives, you know, Republicans, trying to you know,
Speaker 1: keep that unlikely allies coalition alive so we can keep
Speaker 1: making progress. Well, thank you so much for spending time
Speaker 1: with me today to talk about your case. I certainly
Speaker 1: read about it many years ago, and Senator Mike Lee
Speaker 1: was the person that was pushing it. He was also
Speaker 1: the person who wrote op ed, a pretty profound op
Speaker 1: ed when the first step back was uh really being
Speaker 1: debated and talked about, and it was a response to
Speaker 1: Senator Tim Cotton, his colleague, who was also a Republican,
Speaker 1: and him being having been a federal prosecutor, he was
Speaker 1: able to lay it out in a way that was
Speaker 1: understood from a legal perspective and wasn't necessarily political, but
Speaker 1: just the right thing to do. And I think I can,
Speaker 1: I can absolutely appreciate that. I don't UH me personally.
Speaker 1: I think that the law has to change. I think
Speaker 1: it should change, especially with all the things that are
Speaker 1: going state by state, and Republicans I believe UH should
Speaker 1: be very open to having those kind of conversations as
Speaker 1: they had with your case. So thank you for spending
Speaker 1: his time with me. And before we let you go,
Speaker 1: is there anything you've got coming up? Any big projects
Speaker 1: that the folks at home should know about before you go?
Speaker 1: And where should people go to follow your work? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Absolutely so anyone you know wanting to you know, get
Speaker 1: involved or just you know, check out what we're doing,
Speaker 1: they can go to the welcome project dot org um
Speaker 1: and you know, sign up for a newsletter where they
Speaker 1: can follow us on Instagram at Project Mission Green. And yeah,
Speaker 1: we have a number of you know, interesting projects coming up. UM.
Speaker 1: You know, we're about to launch a Proclamation for Justice
Speaker 1: UM that includes a very bipartisan group of people from
Speaker 1: you know, across the entertainment UM and you know, the
Speaker 1: political both political aisles UM. You know, we have Republicans, Democrats, independents, UM,
Speaker 1: and you know entertainers you know, from various backgrounds that
Speaker 1: are you know, signed on to this Proclamation for Justice,
Speaker 1: that is, you know, urging President Biden to you know,
Speaker 1: do not only what he said he's gonna do, UM,
Speaker 1: because he promised, you know, on the campaign trail that
Speaker 1: he was going to decriminalize cannabis and that he was
Speaker 1: going to you know, expende records of everyone with cannabis
Speaker 1: uh felonies. And so you know, we we we're gonna
Speaker 1: keep them to that promise, and we're gonna tinue, you know,
Speaker 1: keep from pressure on him to do something about it
Speaker 1: as soon as possible. UM. And then UM, you know,
Speaker 1: we need to change it on the federal level as well,
Speaker 1: which is why you know, we launched the Cannabis Scree, Tomorian.
Speaker 1: And here we are talking about non violent and I
Speaker 1: think that's a key question for folks at home, non
Speaker 1: violent offenses, uh with regards to cannabis. So I appreciate
Speaker 1: your time, thank you for coming on, and certainly wishing
Speaker 1: you well as you move forward in your alliance and
Speaker 1: and keeping these good folks like Ivanka Trump and everybody
Speaker 1: else uh together on this issue as we hopefully see
Speaker 1: real justice happen. Absolutely, thanks for having me on I
Speaker 1: want to think Well had the most Again for a
Speaker 1: fascinating interview. If you're enjoying the show, please leave us
Speaker 1: a review and rate us with five stars on Apple Podcast.
Speaker 1: If you have any questions for me, please email me
Speaker 1: at out loud at Gingeris Street sixte dot com and
Speaker 1: I'll try to answer them in our future episodes, and
Speaker 1: please sign up for my monthly newsletter at Gingeris Street
Speaker 1: six dot com slash out loud. You can also find
Speaker 1: me on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and parlor at Giano Caldlow.
Speaker 1: And if you're interested in learning more about my story,
Speaker 1: please pick up a copy of my best selling book
Speaker 1: title Taken for Granted, How Conservatism Can Win back the
Speaker 1: Americans their Liberalism Failed. Special thanks to our producer John Cassio,
Speaker 1: researcher Aaron Klingman, and executive producers Debbie Myers and of
Speaker 1: course speaker New Gingridge, all part of the Gingerish three
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