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Speaker 1: Up next out Loud what Gianno called well part of

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Speaker 1: the guich. The journey of Weldon Angelo's from an up

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Speaker 1: and coming music producer to a new face of criminal

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Speaker 1: justice reform wasn't pretty. In fact, it was cruel, torturous,

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Speaker 1: and included a fifty five year prison sentence. It also

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Speaker 1: included a full pardon from the one President Donald J. Trump.

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Speaker 1: Today we hear Weldon's story. This is Outlined with Gianno Caldwell.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Outline with Gianno Caldwell. I'm Gianno Caldwell

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Speaker 1: and I have a really interesting and fascinating show this week.

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Speaker 1: My guests is someone with a remarkable life story that

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Speaker 1: would make for a Hollywood script. His name is Weldon Angelos.

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Speaker 1: I'll save most of the details for our conversation, but

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Speaker 1: to give you a basic review. In the early two thousands,

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Speaker 1: Angelo's was a young and promising hip hop producer. He

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Speaker 1: had a budding new record label, Extravagant Records, and was

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Speaker 1: on his way to the top. But then Angelo sold

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Speaker 1: a few hundred dollars worth of cannabis also known as

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Speaker 1: marijuana weed to a police informant over multiple transactions, and

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Speaker 1: everything went downhill. Angelos had no prior criminal record, but

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Speaker 1: because the informant said Angelos had a firearms strap to

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Speaker 1: his ankle, he was sentenced to fifty five years in prison.

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Speaker 1: Federal law made fifty five years the minimum sentence allowed,

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Speaker 1: even though this was the first time marijuana offense. Eventually,

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Speaker 1: after well over a decade in prison, Angelo's was released

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Speaker 1: in twenty things to a major bipartisan effort, and then

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Speaker 1: last year President Trump fully pardoned him. Today, Angelos is

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Speaker 1: the new face of criminal justice reform, especially cannabis related issues.

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Speaker 1: I'll ask him about what he went through, what he's

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Speaker 1: doing now, and his work where President Trump on criminal

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Speaker 1: justice reform. Let's go. Well, then, I'm really excited to

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Speaker 1: have you on out loud what Giano called. Well, we've

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Speaker 1: been talking about cannabis, uh, in terms of on television,

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Speaker 1: radio media. The country has been talking about it for

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Speaker 1: quite a while, and your story, I think is one

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Speaker 1: which is one of the most fascinating I've heard. I

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Speaker 1: learned about it many many years ago, probably about four

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Speaker 1: years ago, when you were released from jail, when Senator

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Speaker 1: Mike Lee of Utah, actually I believe he wrote an

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Speaker 1: op add on it. So I wanna just start off

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Speaker 1: the conversation before we dig into cannabis the criminal justice

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Speaker 1: reform aspect of it. I wanted to have you take

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Speaker 1: my listeners through your life story and what happened to you.

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Speaker 1: Tell us about what life was like before you were

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Speaker 1: arrested and ultimately sentenced to prison in two thousand and four. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so um for that, I would say. Back going back

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Speaker 1: to around nineties ninety six, I started working on a

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Speaker 1: career in the music industry. UM. I had, um, somehow

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Speaker 1: made my way into the hip hop world. UM with

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Speaker 1: a lot of the folks silver at Death Row Records,

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Speaker 1: including Snoop Dogg's group The Dog Pound and two pops

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Speaker 1: group Outlaws, And a few years after that, I ended

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Speaker 1: up founding my own record label, and Snoop Dogg, you know,

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Speaker 1: gave me an opportunity to produce some music with him.

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Speaker 1: Ended up at his house making some records and producing

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Speaker 1: a whole album with Snoop, And you know, my career

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Speaker 1: just sort of took off from there, and I started

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Speaker 1: working with some of the biggest names in the industry,

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Speaker 1: and I sort of put myself in the crosshairs of

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Speaker 1: the of the federal government. Um. You know, back in

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Speaker 1: my hometown of Salt Lake City, Utah, where I was

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Speaker 1: bringing you know, Snoop and mac dray and all the

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Speaker 1: people I was working with, you know, to do shows

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Speaker 1: and and just kind of opened up the scene there,

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Speaker 1: and uh, you know, it was something that was kind

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Speaker 1: of new, you know, to that to that town at

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Speaker 1: the time, and so the authorities thought there must be

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Speaker 1: something going on here, you know, outside of music, and

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Speaker 1: so they sent a confidential informant to come try to

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Speaker 1: you know, see what was going on. And you know,

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Speaker 1: really all it was was making records and smoking cannabis, UM,

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Speaker 1: And so the informants decided to buy some of the

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Speaker 1: cannabis and it was just like a few hundred dollars

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Speaker 1: worth on three occasions, was nothing, no profit made. It

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Speaker 1: was just like here you go, UM. And the federal

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Speaker 1: government attempted to you know, get guns and coke and meth,

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Speaker 1: and you know that wasn't what was happening. You know,

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Speaker 1: we were just making music and and you know, smoking

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Speaker 1: cannabis and UM. When they realized that they weren't going

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Speaker 1: to get anything else, they indicted me Um on a

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Speaker 1: few counts, hoping that that would lead to enough pressure

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Speaker 1: to bring down people in hip hop. And when it

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Speaker 1: didn't and we laughed at them for what they were

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Speaker 1: trying to do, they secured superseding indictments where they ended

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Speaker 1: up turning these three cannabis charges, you know, worth nine

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Speaker 1: dollars total into a twenty count federal indictment where I'm

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Speaker 1: facing a hundred years of mandatory imprisonment. Um because of

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Speaker 1: you know, how how the case you know, initially started. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, there was really no trust for me and

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Speaker 1: my attorneys and on their end, and so you know,

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Speaker 1: it forced a trial and I you know, once some

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Speaker 1: counts but lost most of them, ended up with the

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Speaker 1: fifty five year sentence. The sentence was so extreme even

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Speaker 1: the sentencing judge, who was a very conservative George W.

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Speaker 1: Bush appointee, UM, that caused him to balk at the

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Speaker 1: sentence and um, you know, question the legitimacy of the

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Speaker 1: system and of the prosecutor's charging decisions. And so he

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Speaker 1: actually called on the president that appointed him to pardon me.

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Speaker 1: As he was handing down the sentence. He said, you know,

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Speaker 1: my hands are tied. I can't do anything, but this

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Speaker 1: sentence is cruel, unjustin irrational, and so I call him

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Speaker 1: the president to you know, commute the sentence. UM. And

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Speaker 1: then a few years later he stepped down, he stepped

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Speaker 1: down from office, became my chief advocate, and other people joined,

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Speaker 1: other people joined his chorus. You know, we had a

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Speaker 1: Janet Reno, who was the attorney general for Bill Clinton.

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Speaker 1: We had a hundred and something you know, former federal judges,

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Speaker 1: former federal prosecutors, um, and then a former prosecutor in

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Speaker 1: that office who didn't you know, wasn't assigned to my case.

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Speaker 1: His name was Mike Lee. He was elected to the

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Speaker 1: Senate in two thousand ten, and he remembered what my

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Speaker 1: judge said. I mean, the whole legal community across the

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Speaker 1: country knew my judge and his his sixty seven page opinion.

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Speaker 1: And so you know, this unlikely Allies coalition to get

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Speaker 1: me out was sort of you know born and and

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Speaker 1: it and it consisted of you know, friends from the

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Speaker 1: music industry, you know, people like Snoop Dogg and and

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Speaker 1: Bonnie Rayit and Mike Gepps and Alicia Keys, with these

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Speaker 1: political figures like Mike Lee and Corey Booker Um and

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Speaker 1: Rand Paul and even the Koch brothers. You know, eventually,

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Speaker 1: you know got behind you know, the effort to get

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Speaker 1: me out and and it was more to do with

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Speaker 1: not myself being you know, an extraordinary person that was

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Speaker 1: my judge, um that really you know, made all of

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Speaker 1: these individuals rally around my um my cause to get

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Speaker 1: me out of jail. Now, you know, I had never

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Speaker 1: ever ever in my life, and I'm sure most people

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Speaker 1: can attest you don't rarely, if ever, I mean, this

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Speaker 1: has thee one situation I would say, but you rarely

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Speaker 1: if ever see a judge say that, hey, I don't

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Speaker 1: want to give you this sentence, but his mandatory minimum.

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Speaker 1: That's what we have to do. But then to go

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Speaker 1: from there to then be an advocate for you as

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Speaker 1: a Republican even more so especially you know, Republicans are

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Speaker 1: tough on crime. Uh. To to say that this was

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Speaker 1: unreasonable and then have other Republicans as well as Democrats

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Speaker 1: come together to say that it was unreasonable treatment for

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Speaker 1: the crime. Uh. Now, we gotta keep in mind, deek

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Speaker 1: U states all across the country of decriminalized a small

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Speaker 1: amount of marijuana. Twenty seven states, including the District of Columbia.

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Speaker 1: Poland has showed that almost seventy of Americans, if not more,

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Speaker 1: at this point believe in legalization of marijuana. But I

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Speaker 1: gotta ask you this question, because during this time you

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Speaker 1: were in your music career, You're dealing with people like

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Speaker 1: Snoop Dogg, who's obviously legendary, and you never really see

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Speaker 1: him without marijuana smoking anyway. I mean, that's what has

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Speaker 1: been for years. But why were you selling marijuana to

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Speaker 1: begin with? Yeah? So, so as I said, it wasn't like,

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Speaker 1: you know, we were out there, Hey, who wants some weed?

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Speaker 1: This guy came and asked to buy some of our weed.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't like, you know, it was three hundred dollars worth.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I just I just signed a multimillion dollar

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Speaker 1: record deal, So three hundred dollars worth the cannabis and

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Speaker 1: makes fifty bucks or something is not a profitable I

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Speaker 1: didn't do it for profits. So this informant was a

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Speaker 1: guy that you know, used to be from my hood

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Speaker 1: when when I was younger. You know, he was from

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Speaker 1: our gang. And and and so he got out of prison,

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Speaker 1: you know he did he did he did a nickel,

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Speaker 1: went to prison, did five, got out, he caught another case.

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Speaker 1: And he had just had a kid, or at least

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Speaker 1: you know, he was going to have a kid, and

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Speaker 1: so he didn't want to go back. He was like,

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Speaker 1: I'm done with this ship, I'm done with this lifestyle.

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Speaker 1: And at this point, you know, I was in the music,

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Speaker 1: I was out of the street life and all that.

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Speaker 1: You know, I was done with that. He got out

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Speaker 1: and made it seem like he was too. So he

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Speaker 1: was like, I just need to make some money too,

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Speaker 1: you know, I got I got, I got a kid,

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Speaker 1: and I just need to you know, hustle. And so

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Speaker 1: I'm like, huh, you go take some you know, go

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Speaker 1: do what you gotta do. And so, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: that's really how it started. And um, you know, all

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Speaker 1: over that little bit of money. And you know he

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Speaker 1: was asking, he was you know, they were trying to

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Speaker 1: come up with enough um, you know, charges to pressure

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Speaker 1: me and hopes that it would lead to the arrest

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Speaker 1: of a famous rap artist. And know, the Feds have

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Speaker 1: been wanting to get Snoop Snooped for a long time,

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Speaker 1: anyone they really wanted, anyone. They you know, they've never

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Speaker 1: seen that here. And and another reason, you know, that's

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Speaker 1: just you know, one of the motives. The other motive was,

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Speaker 1: you know, what we found out later was that some

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Speaker 1: of these prosecutors and agents looked at me like I

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Speaker 1: was bringing Ebola, you know, into Utah, and they wanted

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Speaker 1: to keep it out and so um and and you

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Speaker 1: know a lot of these prosecutors and agents they're not

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Speaker 1: from like Salt Lake City itself. Salway City is very diverse.

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Speaker 1: So a lot of people, you know, they just say, Utah, Oh,

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Speaker 1: it's all Mormons. Well, when you go to the city,

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Speaker 1: it's very diverse, it's very liberal. But when you leave

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Speaker 1: the city and in the county, it gets very conservative

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Speaker 1: and very Mormon. And so that you know, that's where

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Speaker 1: you know, most of these prosecutors and agents are from.

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Speaker 1: They didn't want that culture being brought to this city. Um.

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Speaker 1: And so you know that there was two prompted. You know,

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Speaker 1: it was very racially motivated case. Um. And so in addition,

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Speaker 1: if they felt like they could you know, arrest somebody

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Speaker 1: famous and gets headlines and you know, get some promotions,

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Speaker 1: you know, all the better. And I just want to

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Speaker 1: note that the lead prosecutor in this case got an

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Speaker 1: award from the Attorney General under the George Bush administration.

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Speaker 1: He got an award with my name on it for

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Speaker 1: the successful prosecution of Well and Angelo and so um,

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Speaker 1: you know, the case was, it was a big case.

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Speaker 1: And then the lead gaining an officer who was a

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Speaker 1: state agent named Jason Magron. He got promoted to be

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Speaker 1: the chief of police for a city called mid Bellum,

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Speaker 1: which is just you know, outside of Salt Lake. And

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Speaker 1: so you know that this is the whole motivation for

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Speaker 1: prosecute me had nothing to do with, oh, we we

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Speaker 1: really want to take this guy down for this little

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Speaker 1: bit of weed. You know, there was other motivations that play, um,

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Speaker 1: that have nothing to do with justice, right, So they

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Speaker 1: wanted to get you so they can really get you

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Speaker 1: to flip on Snoop or somebody else like that, to

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Speaker 1: to to really have a big win. As we know

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Speaker 1: normally happens when prosecut you just get involved at any level,

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Speaker 1: whether they be federal prosecutor state or local, local county,

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Speaker 1: whatever the deal may be. So let me ask you

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Speaker 1: this question. Do you believe that you should have went

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Speaker 1: to jail at all for this or you just feel

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Speaker 1: that the sentence was obviously way too harsh. Well, I'll

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Speaker 1: frame it this way, and this is something my judge

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Speaker 1: actually looked into and he was trying to figure out,

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Speaker 1: you know what he could do besides sentenced me, and

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Speaker 1: so he was getting information from various sources. He asked

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Speaker 1: the jury what an appropriate sentence would be. He reached

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Speaker 1: out to the state system to figure out what would

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Speaker 1: what would be the no time I would serve in

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Speaker 1: the state if I were prosecuting the state, because what

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Speaker 1: happened really is a state charge. It wasn't federal. There's

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Speaker 1: nothing uniquely federal about these charges. It was just the

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Speaker 1: way they charged it because under the state law, I

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Speaker 1: couldn't be prosecuted to to much extent. And so he

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Speaker 1: found out that I could have received a misdemeanor and

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Speaker 1: probation um and and that have had I went to

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Speaker 1: jail in the state system, that probably would have been

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Speaker 1: you know, sit months or less. And this is back

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and you know too when my case happened.

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Speaker 1: I got charged in two thousand two, So in two

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Speaker 1: thousand two, back then I probably could have you know,

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Speaker 1: and I probably wouldn't have even seen jail or a

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Speaker 1: felony because I met it was my first adult offense,

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Speaker 1: and so you know, that was telling. And even my

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Speaker 1: prosecutor's boss, um, who was the head u S attorney,

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Speaker 1: he said you know, he felt that under the state system,

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Speaker 1: I probably would have got probation. Um, realistically, Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: even though the max you know, would have been you know,

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Speaker 1: zero to five years, but under the state guidelines it

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Speaker 1: would have been zero months. And so, you know, should

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Speaker 1: I have went to prison, well under the state law,

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Speaker 1: according to state law, no, um. And so I don't

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Speaker 1: think no prison was warranted. I mean, it's it's some weed,

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Speaker 1: you know. Um. And I had a career, you know,

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Speaker 1: had some young kids. Um, you know, I had just

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Speaker 1: made it out of poverty myself with a you know,

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Speaker 1: unique opportunity to do something that you know, only few

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Speaker 1: in this world gonna do. And it was taken away

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Speaker 1: over some bullshit, in my opinion. And the judge, of course,

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Speaker 1: who presided over your case, called the sentence unjust, cruel

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Speaker 1: and irrational and wanted you to receive less time. But

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Speaker 1: according to him, there was nothing that he can do. Well, um,

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Speaker 1: so you know, all he could do, he felt like

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Speaker 1: he could do is go down kicking and screaming, and

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Speaker 1: you know that's what he did. And he felt like,

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Speaker 1: you know, a lot of people didn't like that. A

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Speaker 1: judge gets emotionally attached to a case, and so you

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Speaker 1: know a lot of people asked him, like why did

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Speaker 1: you get so involved in the case, and he was like, well,

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Speaker 1: somebody had to speak up for Mr Angelos, you know,

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Speaker 1: because obviously he couldn't do it himself, and so it

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Speaker 1: had to be him. And so, you know, when I

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Speaker 1: was in the courtroom, you know, I knew that there

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Speaker 1: was an effort to find the sentence unconstitutional, and so

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Speaker 1: I knew my judge spent a lot of time, you know,

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Speaker 1: researching this, and he we briefed it, you know, over

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Speaker 1: and over and over, trying to figure out the unconstitutional

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Speaker 1: for him to impose such a lengthy sentence on such

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Speaker 1: low level conduct. And unfortunately, our Supreme Court precedent is

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Speaker 1: lacking under the Eighth Amendment, and so you know, he

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Speaker 1: could not find a way out. And you know, I

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Speaker 1: kind of figured I was going to get you know,

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Speaker 1: the minimum mandatory, which was fifty five years and one

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Speaker 1: day UM, possibly more um, even though he was trying

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Speaker 1: to impose a sentence around ten years UM, which was

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Speaker 1: still the max under the guidelines, because the prosecutors could

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Speaker 1: have charged me under the sentencing guidelines rather than the

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Speaker 1: mandatory minimums, where I would have received you know, anywhere

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Speaker 1: from six and a half to you know, maximum of

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Speaker 1: ten years, which likely would have been probably around like

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Speaker 1: seven or eight if they would have charged me into

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Speaker 1: the guidelines. Um, but they wanted to charge him the

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Speaker 1: mandatory minimums, you know, to try to you know, get

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Speaker 1: me to flip or just to put maxi amount of

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Speaker 1: pressure on me to accept a very unjust plea offer.

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Speaker 1: And so you know, when I was in the courtroom,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I didn't know what the judge was

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Speaker 1: gonna do. My attorney didn't know. He had never encountered

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Speaker 1: a case like this before, so we none of us

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Speaker 1: knew what was going to happen. And you know, when

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Speaker 1: it came time, you know, I knew what was happening.

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Speaker 1: When he said, after careful deliberation, I reluctantly conclude, I

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Speaker 1: knew it was over with. He said, I reluctantly conclude

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Speaker 1: that I have no choice but to impose a fifty

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Speaker 1: five years sentence, you know, and then he imposed one

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Speaker 1: day for the additional charges, and so, um, you know

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Speaker 1: it was over with. And you know that's when you know,

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Speaker 1: I knew the fight to get me out began. You know,

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Speaker 1: we were we had multiple attempts to appeal the case,

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Speaker 1: you know, to no avail. You know, our court system,

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Speaker 1: our appellate system is a joke. Um, you know, you

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Speaker 1: rarely succeed. They you know, stacked the deck against you.

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Speaker 1: And so you know, we really had no other option

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Speaker 1: but to hope, uh, you know, a progressive president would

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Speaker 1: you know, get elected, and um, you know, we could

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Speaker 1: seek a commutation. Before we move on, you need to

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Speaker 1: take a break. Let me ask you this question. What

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Speaker 1: was it like in that moment when you heard from

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Speaker 1: the judge and he handed you down a fifty five

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Speaker 1: year sentence for something that's clearly not worth while. Five

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Speaker 1: years and I'm even listening to you say, well, if

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Speaker 1: it was under a sentence and guidelines, then maybe it

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Speaker 1: would have been sixty teen years. This this wasn't drug

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Speaker 1: kingpin level crime. It was a crime so that we

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Speaker 1: would call it what it is. But it wasn't something

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Speaker 1: like you're selling crack and you're getting all these people addicted.

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Speaker 1: This was less than a thousand dollars. And honestly speaking, nowadays,

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Speaker 1: you I've seen people with the cannabis as I've been

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Speaker 1: researching and talking about it, that doesn't really get you

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Speaker 1: much these days if you spent a few hundred dollars

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Speaker 1: on cannabis. So it's it's kind of interesting to hear

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Speaker 1: your story. What was it like in that moment when

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Speaker 1: you heard fifty five years? Well, like I said, you know,

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Speaker 1: I was expecting something around them because the three there's

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Speaker 1: three charges out of those sixteen, one of them was

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Speaker 1: five years, the other two or twenty five and they

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Speaker 1: must be served consecutively. So I knew there was at

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Speaker 1: least a fifty five year mandatory minimum just on those

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Speaker 1: three council loan. And it was because the way the

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Speaker 1: agents and prosecutors stacked my sentence. Now, for instance, if

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Speaker 1: they really thought I was this dangerous person that they

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Speaker 1: made me out to be before the judge and trial

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Speaker 1: and sentencing, they really made me out to be this

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Speaker 1: you know, dangerous you know, gun slinging, you know kingpin

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Speaker 1: with three worth the Canadas. You know, it was really ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: They looked really stupid, and they tried to compare my

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Speaker 1: case to be as being worse than second degree murder,

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Speaker 1: worse than child rate, worse than terrorism, um, and you

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Speaker 1: know it was laughable, um and so um, yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was just real crazy man and um, you know, the judge,

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Speaker 1: he had no choice. And so when I heard the

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Speaker 1: fifty five years sentence, you know, it just confirmed what

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Speaker 1: I already you know, thought was gonna happen, and that

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Speaker 1: you know, the fight to get me out would have

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Speaker 1: to happen on appeal, you know. And and you know,

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Speaker 1: but when I heard him call on the president, I

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Speaker 1: didn't know. I knew he thought the sentence was unjust.

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Speaker 1: He said, you know, in the very beginning, like eight

360
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Speaker 1: months before the sentence thing, he said, the sentence appears

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Speaker 1: to be cruel on justin r rational um, and he

362
00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:02,280
Speaker 1: trying to find a way out. So but when he

363
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Speaker 1: sentenced me and he said that, you know, I call

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Speaker 1: on the president to commute the sentence to something more

365
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Speaker 1: you know, more reasonable and more just. You know, that

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Speaker 1: gave me some hope. Um. You know, I didn't. I

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Speaker 1: didn't have a lot of confidence in Bush, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: because you know Bush was not uh somebody who was

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Speaker 1: courageous and and and super immerciful um. And neither was

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Speaker 1: his staff. Um. So I really didn't think there was

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Speaker 1: much of a chance there. My hope was, you know,

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Speaker 1: in the next administration, because when I got sentenced. You know,

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Speaker 1: Bush just one re election and so we were stuck

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Speaker 1: with him for another four years. UM. And so you know,

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Speaker 1: my hope was in the appill at court. UM. But

376
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Speaker 1: while we were you know, working on a hill in

377
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Speaker 1: this UM, we were building support from as many people

378
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Speaker 1: as possible, and it was growing every day. You know,

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Speaker 1: we had a hundred and sixty three you know, former

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Speaker 1: d J officials, former federal judges, UM. And then you know,

381
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Speaker 1: we we just kept building and building support and and

382
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,560
Speaker 1: just trying to get as many people behind. You know,

383
00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:05,159
Speaker 1: my case is possible to get me out now and

384
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:07,960
Speaker 1: that and that's really interesting to hear this, this major

385
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Speaker 1: bipartisan effort. And I want to get into that in

386
00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:12,040
Speaker 1: a moment, but I want to ask you, so, when

387
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Speaker 1: you went to jail, what was the prison experience like,

388
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Speaker 1: especially considering what you went in there for. You're in

389
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Speaker 1: there with hardened criminals, murderers. You're in there with real

390
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Speaker 1: drug kingpins, people who are probably made millions or hundreds

391
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Speaker 1: of thousands of dollars selling drugs, and murderers and all

392
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Speaker 1: this other stuff. What was that experience like for you?

393
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Speaker 1: Were you afraid for your life or what was it? Now?

394
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:35,480
Speaker 1: I wasn't afraid for my life, but I was because

395
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Speaker 1: you know this, I was young and I was hard

396
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,760
Speaker 1: headed and um. You know, but when I when I

397
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Speaker 1: got to prison, I was expecting to go to like

398
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Speaker 1: a camp or like a low security prison. UM. When

399
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:49,359
Speaker 1: when the bus pulled up to lom Poke, Um, there's

400
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Speaker 1: three prisons there. There's a camp which is basically you're

401
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,600
Speaker 1: not you don't even have a gate to hold you in.

402
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:56,960
Speaker 1: You don't have like a fense. You know, you can

403
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Speaker 1: wander around. You know, it's pretty you know, it's pretty

404
00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:01,879
Speaker 1: low key, like you can, you know, pretty much do

405
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Speaker 1: what you want. Um. And then they have a low

406
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Speaker 1: security that is, you know, has offense, but you know

407
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,399
Speaker 1: it's really lacks. Then you got the USP, which is

408
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Speaker 1: a maximum security where they send people with life and

409
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Speaker 1: violent you know offensive. And when the bus stopped at

410
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Speaker 1: the camp, you know, I heard the drivers say I

411
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Speaker 1: got one person for the camp, the rest are going

412
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Speaker 1: to the USP, and I'm like, that's gotta be me.

413
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:25,720
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not. It's a marijuana charge. You know,

414
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Speaker 1: I've been never been to prison. You know, had a

415
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 1: juvenile gun charge but it was expunged. So under the system,

416
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:32,919
Speaker 1: I was treated as the first defenders. So you know,

417
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 1: I'm getting up, like that's gotta be me. And then

418
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,000
Speaker 1: I look to the side of me and I see

419
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:40,200
Speaker 1: this square. You know, little young white kid that was

420
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:42,560
Speaker 1: talking about he was in there for, you know, like

421
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 1: some kind of computer case that he got one year.

422
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Speaker 1: And when I looked at him, like, shit, I'm dead, dude,

423
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Speaker 1: that's here, that's his spot. He's getting out here, not me.

424
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Speaker 1: I got too much time, you know, because usually you

425
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Speaker 1: gotta have under ten years to go to the camp.

426
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Speaker 1: And you know, because I had a fifty five years sentence,

427
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Speaker 1: I was considered a public safety risk. And with the

428
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,959
Speaker 1: camp you can walk off and leave if you want,

429
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,160
Speaker 1: you know, you just escape, you just walk home, you know. Um,

430
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:08,879
Speaker 1: and then they'll put out a warrant for you. So

431
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:10,919
Speaker 1: it's not really a big deal because the campers are

432
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,959
Speaker 1: considered minimal risk. Um. And so you know, when I

433
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,960
Speaker 1: walked in the USP, it looked like everything you see

434
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 1: in the movies. Um, it was a very dangerous prison. Um.

435
00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:23,200
Speaker 1: It was. It was crazy. And I was like, ship

436
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,640
Speaker 1: all this for you know, nine hundred dollars worth the weed,

437
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,359
Speaker 1: Like it was just I can't believe this um, and

438
00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:30,199
Speaker 1: I just have to do my best to adjust to it,

439
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 1: you know, and and you know, put put my bury

440
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,520
Speaker 1: myself in law books so I could figure out, you know,

441
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:37,680
Speaker 1: how I got here and how I'm gonna get myself out.

442
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,159
Speaker 1: And just the point of clarification, because I heard you

443
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 1: mentioned that it was three hundred dollars worth a weed,

444
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:44,439
Speaker 1: and I heard you mentioned it was nine hundred? Was

445
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 1: it three hundred times? You know, multiple times you gave

446
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:52,680
Speaker 1: him the three times? Okay, that's what it was. He

447
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,639
Speaker 1: got three worth on three occasions. Okay, got you? Okay,

448
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 1: now I hear that, all right. So you ended up

449
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:02,440
Speaker 1: being released from prison due to a remarkable bipartisan effort.

450
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 1: Can you walk us through what that looked like? Because

451
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:07,919
Speaker 1: you were in there for quite a while before you

452
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 1: were ever released. So what was that that time like?

453
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 1: In the in between? So you know, I spent most

454
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 1: of my time thinking I'm getting out that year. Um,

455
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 1: you know, we had to prepare for him at Peal

456
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:19,919
Speaker 1: when I first went to prison. You know, I think

457
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,120
Speaker 1: I was in there for a year before our appeal.

458
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 1: You know, I was ready for decision and we thought

459
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 1: we were winning. We had oral arguments, the appellate court

460
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 1: was scolding the prosecutor, you know, telling him, you know,

461
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 1: he's ridiculous for thinking the sentences just And more importantly,

462
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,439
Speaker 1: there was an illegal search and seizure where they used

463
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 1: illegally seized evidence to convict me at trial. And that's

464
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 1: with my best hope for coming home, because yeah, so

465
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 1: they they entered one of my homes without a search

466
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 1: warrant and they took all this evidence that made me

467
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,359
Speaker 1: look like I was a gang member. And that's really

468
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 1: what they wanted the jury to see me as like

469
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 1: this violent gang member. And they used a lot of

470
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,399
Speaker 1: hip hop stuff they and actually wrapped lyrics at my trial.

471
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 1: The prosecutor rapped lyrics in his closing argument, and he

472
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 1: began his clothing argument rapping lyrics from a mac Dre

473
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,119
Speaker 1: song that I produced, and you know, suggesting to the

474
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 1: jury that that's what this case is all about. And so,

475
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 1: you know, they put up pictures of like the LBC

476
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 1: East Side like Snoop clothing and said this is gang attire. Um,

477
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 1: you know, the LBC stuff East Siders. You know, all

478
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,399
Speaker 1: this stuff was um, you know, all hip hop gear,

479
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,639
Speaker 1: you know, And they put up pictures of like tupac

480
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 1: and a vest and get the cent in the vest

481
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 1: and was just like, you know, this man is dangerous.

482
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 1: They would put those pictures up next to you know,

483
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 1: other you know, like firearms and stuff like that to

484
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 1: make the jury, you know, fear fear me. And they

485
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 1: did a good job because the first day at trial,

486
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,479
Speaker 1: one of the jurors expressed safety concerns to the judge

487
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 1: and that's when I knew I was going to be

488
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 1: hit at trial. Um. And so you know they you know,

489
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,119
Speaker 1: it was it was just a you know, it was

490
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 1: a terrible, terrible trial. The government just went out of

491
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 1: their way just to you know, win the case. They

492
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 1: wanted to win at all cost um and so um.

493
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 1: So yeah, so you know, back to back to the

494
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,400
Speaker 1: prison setting. You know, I'm sitting there and I got

495
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 1: this fifty five year sentence. I'm in a maximum security penitentiary. Um,

496
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,119
Speaker 1: and there's people around me that are killers. You know,

497
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,400
Speaker 1: people are getting stabbed. It's just a crazy prisons anything

498
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 1: like you see in the movies. And you know I

499
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,919
Speaker 1: had to just you know, really bury myself in the books.

500
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 1: We had, you know, my first appeal where the Court

501
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 1: of Appeals appeared as though they were going to throw

502
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 1: out my conviction and give me a new trial. And

503
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: when it came time for decision, you know, they flipped

504
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 1: the script completely and actually took shots at my judge.

505
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 1: So they really looked at this as like, we don't

506
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,439
Speaker 1: want judges doing what. No, but no, the no, the

507
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: higher court, the higher court who we we appealed to

508
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,880
Speaker 1: the higher Court to try to get my trial overturned

509
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 1: so I can get a new trial. Because if I

510
00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 1: got a new trial, there's no way they can convict me,

511
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 1: because now we know all the flaws in their case

512
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,120
Speaker 1: that they used to convict me on BS charges and

513
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,399
Speaker 1: so there was these enhancements that they made up at

514
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 1: the last minute, and that's really what triggered the the

515
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: long sentence. And so you know, we basically knew, you know,

516
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 1: how flawed their case was. You know, their witnesses were lying,

517
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 1: the agents were lying, the prosecutors were hiding evidence. We

518
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 1: found the evidence, and so a new trial there's no

519
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 1: way they could win. I would go home after the

520
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,360
Speaker 1: trial be free. And so, um, you know, they did

521
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 1: everything they could to paint me as this bad guy

522
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,679
Speaker 1: at the appellate court. Lets me go that you know,

523
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: the streets are going to be unsafe now. Like it

524
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 1: was just really a crazy, crazy kangaroo court. And so,

525
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: you know, the judges appeared in the beginning they were

526
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 1: gonna throw out my conviction. When it came time for decision,

527
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: they reverse course, and they took shots at my judge

528
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,880
Speaker 1: in the entire opinion, basically stating that he, um, he

529
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 1: what he liked, he didn't take the case serious enough.

530
00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: He you know, he severely undermined the seriousness of my offense. Um,

531
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,400
Speaker 1: and just completely flipped the script from what they were

532
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: talking about at the oral arguments and said that you know,

533
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 1: they basically wanted to discipline my judge and tell them,

534
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 1: you know, like, don't do this. This is not how

535
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 1: we get down his judges, and he he wouldn't listen

536
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 1: to them. He kept speaking out testified before congress um

537
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: and and other judges followed his uh, his suit. Other judges,

538
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 1: you know, uh did what he did and started reaching

539
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,160
Speaker 1: out to the jury and started looking at these sentences

540
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 1: and you know, to wondering if they're even just or not,

541
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: and find trying to find ways around them. And so

542
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 1: so yeah, so I end up losing the first appeal

543
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 1: and then we took it to the Supreme Court, which

544
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 1: was denied in two thousand seven. And then you know

545
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 1: that really the campaign for Clement became meaning meaning they

546
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 1: didn't take the case up. That's what you're saying when

547
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 1: you said it was then they almost did. Because in

548
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 1: order to go to the Supreme Court, you gotta have

549
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 1: four votes of the nine Supreme Court justices. Four justices

550
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: have to vote in favor of it. They three. They

551
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 1: twice delayed my case had a vote I think three times.

552
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 1: The first two times they couldn't come to a decision,

553
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 1: which is crazy because the Supreme Court only takes about

554
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 1: eight cases out of like literally tens of thousands every year,

555
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 1: and so there was you know, uh, some justices there

556
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,239
Speaker 1: that were obviously interested in my case, and so they

557
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 1: kept delaying it, um, you know, delaying a decision, and

558
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: finally they on the third vote, they didn't get four

559
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:25,919
Speaker 1: justices to vote in my favor and they didn't hear it.

560
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 1: And so, um, you know, now now our focus needs

561
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: to be clemency with the president. And you know, my

562
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 1: case was really framed for clemency because my judge's opinion, um,

563
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 1: you know, really framed this um for for a clemency case.

564
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 1: And so you know, we were just really waiting for

565
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: Bush to get out of office, and you know, we

566
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: made a run with him at the last you know,

567
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 1: his last few months, which wasn't successful. UM. And then UM,

568
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 1: you know, when Obama was elected, you know, I thought,

569
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 1: for sure, this is it, it's over with UM. But

570
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: he didn't do anything for his first four years, first

571
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 1: six years actually, and so you know I had to

572
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 1: sit in there for all those years waiting for Obama

573
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 1: to to take some action for his administration. And it

574
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: was really frustrating that, you know, such a progressive administration

575
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: did nothing for the first fourth you know, five six years. UM.

576
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 1: And then in two thousand and UM, I think it

577
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 1: was two thousand and late two thousand thirteen, the very

578
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: end of two thousand thirteen, I think it was December,

579
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: he commuted eight sentences and launched a clemency program. That's

580
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 1: when you know, it really heated up for us, and

581
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 1: we had a you know, a letter that went to

582
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: him that was signed by you know, hundreds of people

583
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 1: from you know, the entertainment industry, you know, political figures.

584
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: And then my case became the poster child for a

585
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 1: criminal Justice Reform bill that ran Paul or not Rand

586
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: Paul Rand Paul. You know, he brought up my case

587
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 1: before the Senate, but it was a bill that Mike

588
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 1: Lee and Corey Booker were pushing. And and so five yeah,

589
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 1: five senators, five U S. Senators were talking about my

590
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 1: case during these Senate hearings. Um and even my prosecutor's boss,

591
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 1: who who he left the US A Treaties Office, he

592
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 1: was the head prosecutor there. He actually testified before Mike

593
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: Lee and said that my sentence was wrong and unjust.

594
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 1: And so now I had the support of not only

595
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 1: five senators, I have the support of my prosecutor's boss

596
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 1: and my judge and you know, all these former you know, officials,

597
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 1: and so you know, that's really when the campaign to

598
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 1: get me out really heated up. Now It's interesting because

599
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 1: I've been hearing how you you talked, you know about

600
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 1: something like folks that are really tough on crime. Republicans

601
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: have always been really tough on crime, but really Republicans

602
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: were a saving grace for you, if if I'm hearing

603
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 1: it correctly, you've had bipartisan support with the former members

604
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:45,719
Speaker 1: of the d o J. And I'm a conservative too,

605
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: So of course I'm gonna mention this kind of thing, right, So,

606
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 1: he've had bipartisan members of the d o J who

607
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: were helpful. Senator Mike Lee, as I understand it, and

608
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: you correct me if I'm wrong, as I understand that

609
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 1: he was the person who put um your part and

610
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 1: before Barack Obama in the White House, um for clemency, pardon, whatever.

611
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 1: So so the Republicans have been helpful in his fighting

612
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 1: in this journey for criminal criminal justice reform, especially for

613
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 1: for you and others like you. Absolutely. So, you know,

614
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: my judge was, you know, a Federalist Society judge, and

615
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 1: so he was one of the super conservative. He was

616
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 1: so conservative that he fought for the to the for

617
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court to overturn miranda rights. He fought to

618
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 1: get rid of the exclusionary rule that says if if

619
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: agents violate your Fourth Amendment rights, that they can still

620
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 1: use the evidence evidence against you. So if agents come

621
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: in your house with no warrant and just start looking

622
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 1: and find drugs, my judge thought they could still use

623
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: it against you. It didn't matter. And that's how conservative

624
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 1: he was, and that's what made some conservatives listen to

625
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 1: him and like, maybe we got this wrong. Maybe we are.

626
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 1: And he made a real strong conservative case for criminal

627
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 1: justice reform, and so a lot of people like Chuck

628
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: Grass Lee and others, and Mike Lee especially. This is

629
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 1: why Mike Lee got in criminal justice reform because of

630
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 1: my judge and so, you know, and and being prosecuted

631
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 1: in such a conservative state. You know, the only people

632
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 1: that could help me was Mike Lee and Oorn Hatch,

633
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 1: and Oorn Hatch waited until after all these other people

634
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: came out to help me before he opened his mouth.

635
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 1: And so, um, really, Mike Lee, I credit him for

636
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 1: for why I'm free right now and why I was

637
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: subsequently parted by President Trump. Um. And so you know,

638
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 1: I gotta give a lot of credit to Mike Lee

639
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: and the conservatives and you know, the Koch brothers obviously

640
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 1: they joined Mike Lee's call um to you know, get

641
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 1: me out of jail. And so you know, it was

642
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 1: and there was other you know, it was bipartisan because

643
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,239
Speaker 1: he had Corey Booker and and some entertainers. But you know,

644
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: Mike Lee, I think is really what got me over

645
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 1: the finish line, because Mike Lee made me the poster

646
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: child for Reform and argued that I never should have

647
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 1: gotten the sentence because yeah, there was a there was

648
00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: an incorrect interpretation under the law. Uh that that never

649
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: should have you know, happened in my case because the

650
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: Supreme Court incorrectly interpreted the statue. And so the First

651
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: Step at clarified that now prosecutors cannot seek and and

652
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 1: and and get a fifty five year sentence for someone

653
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: like myself. Ever, again, it's over with. And so you know,

654
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 1: when I got out, you know, in in in two

655
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: thousand sixteen, you know, we got a couple of people

656
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: out under Obama's administration. When Trump was elected, we were like, okay, look,

657
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: you know, it's gonna be four years before we get

658
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 1: anything done. And surprisingly we were invited to the White

659
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: House UM for the prison reform summits, and so, you know,

660
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 1: I developed a relationship with the Trump administration, UM with

661
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 1: my friends Ron Smith, who was actually a part of

662
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 1: the Coke network before that UM and then ultimately Vonka

663
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: and so you know, me and Drew on worked on

664
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 1: started working on clemency. And so after we passed the

665
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: First Step Act, you know, we shifted our attention to clemency,

666
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 1: and you know, I started working with Jared's office and

667
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: Ivanka Trump, and you know, we were able to get

668
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: twelve people out of prison who were serving life for marijuana. UM.

669
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 1: And so on Trump's last day, he commuted you know

670
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 1: that what we we we submitted this letter with this list, UM,

671
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 1: and I hand delivered it. You know, I took I

672
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: went to the White House many times, and you know,

673
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: I handle evered this list and we had a letter

674
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:17,760
Speaker 1: that was signed by governors and prosecutors and NBA stars

675
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 1: and you know, I had we had a list of

676
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 1: individuals that had unjust cannabis sentences and on his last day,

677
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:25,760
Speaker 1: he granted twelve of them. And he also granted another

678
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 1: case that actually UM, you know advocated. I brought Snoop

679
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 1: into the folds, uh and you know, introduced him to

680
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 1: Ivanka Trump. And you know, we we got Harry oh Out,

681
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 1: the co founder of death Row Records, and that was

682
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 1: a case that you know, we worked with and you know,

683
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 1: Alice Johnson was huge, you know, huge help on UM.

684
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: And so you know, we got a lot done into

685
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 1: the Trump administration. UM. And you know we're just trying

686
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:49,839
Speaker 1: to continue that, you know, on to this administration. And

687
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 1: you know That's why I was part of you know,

688
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 1: last December by President Trump, because of the work that

689
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 1: I had done on the First Step Act in in elsewhere. Yeah,

690
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 1: I'm really happy to here all the work that you

691
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 1: had been doing, and I've worked on the First Step

692
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:07,280
Speaker 1: Act two. I was on Capitol Hill lobbying the passage

693
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 1: of that that particular bill. But the Trump administration, I

694
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 1: think probably if they were to leave, when you think

695
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: about legacy, real and true legacy. One of the things

696
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: I think that Donald Trump can certainly help hold his

697
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: head up high and and say that he's proud is

698
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 1: on the criminal justice reform efforts, because I think he,

699
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 1: along with Mike Lee and others, had really opened the

700
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 1: eyes of conservatives across the country as to what was

701
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 1: really going on. You gotta have fairness when it comes

702
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 1: to justice. It can't it can't just be you know,

703
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 1: we're gonna throw the book at you. You gotta examine

704
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: every case with detail. And one of the things that

705
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 1: I was so disappointed with with the Clinton administration is

706
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 1: the fact that in this wasn't cannabis. Of course, this

707
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 1: was the distinction between crack cocaine and cocaine, and the

708
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 1: sentence and Commissions reports saying that there was a racial

709
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 1: disparity and they didn't do anything about it. And we've

710
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 1: seen that time and time again with a number of these,

711
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, progressive administrations. Not now though, I mean

712
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 1: they're letting everyone out, but certainly during that during that

713
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 1: area when we're talking about West Fair, was just and

714
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 1: what they and they seemingly didn't really move on those issues.

715
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: But Donald Trump did. Do you maintain a relationship with

716
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 1: the former president to this day? Um, not him, but

717
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: I still have contact with Ivanka um here and there. UM.

718
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 1: And you know, just the fact that you know, him

719
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: and Snoop have this crazy beef um. You know, and

720
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 1: we were able to sort of you know, squash that UM.

721
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 1: And we were able to get that sort of squash

722
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: you know, uh, and and get some work them you

723
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,839
Speaker 1: know before they left. Um. You know, I thought was

724
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:51,879
Speaker 1: was pretty was was pretty amazing and so UM. So yeah,

725
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:53,879
Speaker 1: you know, we we got a lot done in the administration,

726
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 1: and you know, the first step back has resulted in

727
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 1: you know, the release of sixteen thousand people. Yeah, I know,

728
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: that was crazy. So yeah, I think it was one

729
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 1: of the biggest reforms, you know since nineteen seventy really, um,

730
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 1: if you look at at all the different mandatory minimums

731
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 1: that were reformed, Um, you know, I think it was

732
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 1: you know, the biggest uh, you know reform since then.

733
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 1: And you know, we've got to keep going. And you know,

734
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,240
Speaker 1: we're trying to get some work done under this administration.

735
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 1: And you know, I know it's it's starting off a

736
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 1: little slow, um, but you know we're hoping to continue going.

737
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:27,760
Speaker 1: And recently we launched the Cannabis Freedom Alliance with um,

738
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: the cokes Um and Snoop and you know, making it

739
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 1: bipartisan in order to get more Republicans right. And I

740
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 1: want to ask you about that in in a in

741
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 1: a moment, because that that's a huge deal and that's

742
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: one in which you definitely should be congratulated on getting

743
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 1: the attention to Charles Coke. We're talking to Weldon. Angelo's

744
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 1: the new face of criminal justice reforms. We've got much

745
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 1: more with him right after a quick break. Since being released,

746
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: you have become one of the made your faces of

747
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:04,280
Speaker 1: course of criminal justice reforms. What are your your goals

748
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,399
Speaker 1: for changing the system right now? Right now? I think

749
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, one of my biggest efforts is

750
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 1: ending this hypocrisy of allowing large corporations and mostly older,

751
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 1: you know, white entrepreneurs, you know, allowing them to make

752
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 1: millions while keeping um, you know, people incarcerated for doing

753
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 1: the same thing, and predominantly people of color. It's it's

754
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 1: a crazy hypocrisy. You know, I know someone that's serving

755
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 1: sixty years for a marijuana fense um while you know,

756
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: these corporations are allowed to make millions for doing the

757
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 1: same thing, and they're both violating federal statutes. You know,

758
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 1: it's still illegal. Even though the states have passed you know,

759
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 1: different laws, it's still illegal federally, and they're not charging them.

760
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:43,760
Speaker 1: They're picking and choose and you know the winners and wansers,

761
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 1: and you know, it's just wrong. And so I think,

762
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 1: you know, we need to end the federal ban and

763
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 1: let the states decide and that way people can vote

764
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 1: with their feet um. And you know, the federal prison

765
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: system is is filled up with you know, thousands of

766
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 1: people you know in there for you know, non violent

767
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 1: cannabis charges while their way seen you know, the state

768
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: after state legalized. And so you know, that was my

769
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,839
Speaker 1: whole purpose for you know, starting that alliance, because we

770
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,400
Speaker 1: need to we need to pass federal legislation that de

771
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 1: schedules marijuana on the federal level. UM. And and as

772
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: far as other criminal justice you know, where we're trying

773
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,959
Speaker 1: to get past, you know, various different criminal justice bills

774
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: because there's still a lot of work to be done.

775
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: We have to make the changes in the first step

776
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 1: back retroactive UM. And that's something that you know, Mike

777
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 1: leaves a big champion on the statute that gave me

778
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 1: fifty five years is not retroactive. The people that you know,

779
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 1: there's people still in there serving you know, longer sentences

780
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,280
Speaker 1: than I had for the same type of conduct because

781
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: that was not retroactive. And so you know, we couldn't

782
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 1: get it done at the time because of Tom Cotton

783
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 1: and Ted Cruz, you know who flip flopped on the issue.

784
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 1: And so you know, now you know, we we have

785
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 1: a bill that that made that a committee and you know,

786
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 1: we got to try to get that passed through the Senate. Now, Uh,

787
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 1: Switching gears a little bit. Charles Cope, the billionaire libertarian,

788
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 1: was spent a fortune on political causes. He's now actively

789
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 1: funding efforts to the tune of twenty five million dollars

790
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 1: to in federal marijuana prohibition. Now, I know you're a

791
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,359
Speaker 1: big part of the reason, at least from what I've read,

792
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 1: you're a good part of the reason why his Odds

793
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 1: was open to this, and you reached out to Charles

794
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,399
Speaker 1: Coke and asked them if you would partner with you

795
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 1: in terms of having fairness in the in the system here,

796
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 1: especially when what marijuana his view to decriminalize it. Uh,

797
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: what is that relationship like and why did you choose

798
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 1: to reach out to him that that's a very interesting

799
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: person to reach out to. Yeah. So, um, you know,

800
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 1: when I had gotten out of jail, we had we

801
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:45,840
Speaker 1: had a south By Southwest event and I connected h

802
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,839
Speaker 1: Charles Coke and his team was Snoop trying to get

803
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 1: more work done. You know, we just had a Republican

804
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 1: president take office, and you know, we needed to try

805
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 1: to work together to get things done. And interestingly is

806
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: that was the week that the Snoop and Trump be

807
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 1: freely kicked off. And so it made it kind of

808
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 1: hard because you know, uh, what's the Marco Rubio and

809
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 1: Ted Cruz were telling the Coke don't do the event

810
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,840
Speaker 1: with Snoop because he just made that video. You know,

811
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 1: about Trump, and so it was really hard, you know,

812
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 1: but we we still did the event, and you know,

813
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 1: we started, you know, I'm trying to bring my entertainment

814
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,359
Speaker 1: friends over you know, to d C and and and

815
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 1: meet with you know, political figures, even take him to

816
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 1: the Trump White House so we can really get some

817
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 1: reform done. And so, you know, Snoop in the in

818
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 1: the Coke started, you know, working together because of you know,

819
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:34,320
Speaker 1: my introduction, and um, we had a zoom call last August.

820
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,240
Speaker 1: I had just gotten Loon out from bad Boy Records

821
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 1: p did. He's rapper and so we wanted him to

822
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,240
Speaker 1: come on this event. And I had a Snoop, Snoop

823
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 1: come on. Huh yeah, lou was We had a fourteen

824
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 1: years sentence, um and so and and you know he

825
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 1: and when I got out, a lot of hip hop

826
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 1: industry reached out to me for help, you know, Harry, oh,

827
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 1: you know death Row because of my connection there. Um,

828
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 1: you know that was a Snoop's request. And then you

829
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 1: know a Loon from bad Boy um Rollo who's an

830
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 1: Atlanta rapper, working to get him out with Drake, working

831
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 1: with Drake and others to get him out. Um and

832
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:11,399
Speaker 1: tayd Alla Signs brother and so a lot of people

833
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 1: in hip hop reached out to me for help, and

834
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 1: so we you know, I spent about eighteen months trying

835
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 1: to get Loon out, um. And you know, I took

836
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 1: his case to the White House and they were this

837
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 1: close to granting his clemency and then the riots and

838
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 1: he was in there for just a non violent drug fans.

839
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 1: He made an introduction to two people who went on

840
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:33,399
Speaker 1: to do you know, some drug deals, and he got

841
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,839
Speaker 1: caught up in the conspiracy law and so he had

842
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 1: a fourteen year sentence, and you know, we were very

843
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 1: close to getting him clemency and then you know that's

844
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 1: when everything really kicked off and with the pandemic and

845
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 1: everything else, um, and so they had to shift their

846
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 1: attention away from criminal justice, and so I used the

847
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,360
Speaker 1: first step back to get him out to the court system.

848
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 1: And so when we got him out, um, you know,

849
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 1: we had this event with the Coats and you know,

850
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 1: I invited Snoop on and me and Charles and Snoop

851
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 1: had a one on one on this zoom private zoom call.

852
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 1: And you know, this is like you know, when you

853
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:07,840
Speaker 1: know something you know and the idea my head based

854
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 1: on something Charles said about the need to you know,

855
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 1: end the war on on cannabis. You know, the light

856
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 1: bulb my head went off, like why don't I reach

857
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 1: out to them because I'm in the middle of trying

858
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 1: to you know, end prohibition, and so I reached out

859
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 1: to his team. Um. Actually, we're at the Hill America

860
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 1: tour um UH in Atlanta last year, and you know

861
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 1: that was had the cokes there, had Doug Decent, a

862
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,879
Speaker 1: good friend of mine, um, and you know, that's when

863
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: I brought it up to him for the first time, like,

864
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 1: you know, we'd like to get your help in this,

865
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 1: and you know, they were honestly like, you know, we

866
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 1: had never considered getting into this issue or you know,

867
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 1: supporting the more active you know, something we've never considered.

868
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 1: You know, let us think about it. And you know

869
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:50,799
Speaker 1: it took some months, you know, and then you know,

870
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 1: I think some time in like February, they said yes,

871
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 1: let's do it, um, and then we were happy, you know,

872
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 1: because Charles has a lot of influence over Republicans, and

873
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 1: then by coming out publicly in favor of legalization, it

874
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,360
Speaker 1: gives other Republicans cover to say, you know, what. I

875
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 1: agree with this because we we speak to a lot

876
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 1: of Republicans that are like, you know, prohibition stupid. I

877
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:12,840
Speaker 1: just don't know that I'm ready to come out publicly

878
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 1: and say I support it. Um. Now it's easier, you know,

879
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 1: because you know, we got different you know, Republicans like Charles,

880
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 1: like you know, um, you know, Mike Lee and others

881
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 1: that are saying, you know, states should have the right

882
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 1: to do what they want with regard to their drug laws.

883
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 1: And so, um, Charles is a perfect ally. I mean,

884
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 1: you know, they his his team spends you know, millions

885
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 1: every election cycle. I said, I felt like, you know

886
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 1: with that, um, you know that some of these repub

887
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 1: lawmakers are going to listen to him. Yeah. And and

888
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 1: of course, uh Mr Coke has been one who's been

889
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 1: responsible for a number of Republican wins and at one

890
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 1: time and probably still now is the biggest funder of

891
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 1: Republican causes in candidates. So to say that you reached

892
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:58,320
Speaker 1: out to him, I think is a And he answered

893
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:01,879
Speaker 1: as a huge, huge deal you and certainly your your

894
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:05,439
Speaker 1: work with Snoop Dogg bringing them along for the ride.

895
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 1: On a cultural standpoint, that to have these kind of

896
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,320
Speaker 1: conversations are really important. But let me ask you this question.

897
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:13,800
Speaker 1: Out of all the things you've experienced thirteen years in jail,

898
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 1: the entire experience. Now you're a figure that's really well

899
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 1: known in criminal justice. You're working with billionaires, you're working

900
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:24,800
Speaker 1: with celebrities to help other people get out of jail.

901
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 1: Donald Trump was the was the help and to push

902
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 1: that along. Let me ask you this very important question.

903
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 1: At all of that and all these experiences that you

904
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:39,799
Speaker 1: that you had, do you regret selling though that marijuana

905
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,879
Speaker 1: those three times? Do you regret it? No? I mean

906
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 1: I don't regret it, um from that perspective. I regret

907
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 1: it from you know, losing my career, and you know,

908
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 1: regret it from you know, taking that that that risk. Um,

909
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 1: I don't regret it. I don't think anything's wrong with

910
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 1: with cannabis. Um. You know, it never should have been

911
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 1: illegal in the first place, and it definitely should have

912
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 1: never triggered aft year sentence. But at the end of

913
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 1: the day, so much good has come out of you

914
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:08,359
Speaker 1: know that my case. You know, we we we were

915
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 1: able to change federal law. We're able to do so

916
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 1: much with regard to that. Um So UM, I don't

917
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:17,360
Speaker 1: regret it like I regret it from the perspective. I

918
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 1: regret it from the perspective that you know, doing that

919
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 1: ruined you know, my career. You know, I my son's lost,

920
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,319
Speaker 1: you know, thirteen years of their life with me, and

921
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 1: you know, had to live in poverty because of it.

922
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 1: So I definitely regret it from that perspective. But now

923
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 1: you have uh an alliance that you you've you've created,

924
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 1: and can you tell us about your organization that you're

925
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 1: you're doing now in terms of changing the law, working

926
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 1: with the Cokes and certainly your organization to change the

927
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 1: law across the country federally in state by state as well. Yeah. So,

928
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 1: you know, after we passed the First Step Act, I

929
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:56,360
Speaker 1: wanted to shift my attention to you know, cannabi's justice,

930
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 1: and so we launched the Weldon Project, which is a

931
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 1: five one C three, And then we launched an initiative

932
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:06,239
Speaker 1: called Project Mission Grain and it's a clemency initiative, but

933
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 1: really our goal is to end incarceration for marijuana events

934
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 1: is especially on the federal level um and then shifting

935
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 1: to the states. And so we launched that and we've

936
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:17,360
Speaker 1: really been trying to engage people with influence, especially in

937
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 1: the hip hop community, to get involved. And you know

938
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:22,800
Speaker 1: that's something we've been very successful at. We just launched

939
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 1: a campaign with the rapper Russ Um and UM and

940
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 1: we when we were working with Drake on getting um,

941
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 1: you know, the the Biden administration to launch a cannabis

942
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 1: clemency program UM and so, you know, really we're trying

943
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:42,279
Speaker 1: to unite you know, the entertainment industries, whether it's athletes, um,

944
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 1: you know, whether it's people in hip hop and bringing

945
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 1: them to the table with other like minded people, you know,

946
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 1: such as even conservatives, you know, Republicans, trying to you know,

947
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 1: keep that unlikely allies coalition alive so we can keep

948
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 1: making progress. Well, thank you so much for spending time

949
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 1: with me today to talk about your case. I certainly

950
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,800
Speaker 1: read about it many years ago, and Senator Mike Lee

951
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:06,439
Speaker 1: was the person that was pushing it. He was also

952
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:10,479
Speaker 1: the person who wrote op ed, a pretty profound op

953
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 1: ed when the first step back was uh really being

954
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:17,719
Speaker 1: debated and talked about, and it was a response to

955
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 1: Senator Tim Cotton, his colleague, who was also a Republican,

956
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 1: and him being having been a federal prosecutor, he was

957
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:25,279
Speaker 1: able to lay it out in a way that was

958
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 1: understood from a legal perspective and wasn't necessarily political, but

959
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:32,759
Speaker 1: just the right thing to do. And I think I can,

960
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 1: I can absolutely appreciate that. I don't UH me personally.

961
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:40,399
Speaker 1: I think that the law has to change. I think

962
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 1: it should change, especially with all the things that are

963
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 1: going state by state, and Republicans I believe UH should

964
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:48,880
Speaker 1: be very open to having those kind of conversations as

965
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:52,720
Speaker 1: they had with your case. So thank you for spending

966
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 1: his time with me. And before we let you go,

967
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 1: is there anything you've got coming up? Any big projects

968
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 1: that the folks at home should know about before you go?

969
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:01,879
Speaker 1: And where should people go to follow your work? Yeah?

970
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 1: Absolutely so anyone you know wanting to you know, get

971
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 1: involved or just you know, check out what we're doing,

972
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 1: they can go to the welcome project dot org um

973
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 1: and you know, sign up for a newsletter where they

974
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:14,959
Speaker 1: can follow us on Instagram at Project Mission Green. And yeah,

975
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 1: we have a number of you know, interesting projects coming up. UM.

976
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 1: You know, we're about to launch a Proclamation for Justice

977
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:25,760
Speaker 1: UM that includes a very bipartisan group of people from

978
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:28,400
Speaker 1: you know, across the entertainment UM and you know, the

979
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:34,359
Speaker 1: political both political aisles UM. You know, we have Republicans, Democrats, independents, UM,

980
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 1: and you know entertainers you know, from various backgrounds that

981
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:40,720
Speaker 1: are you know, signed on to this Proclamation for Justice,

982
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:43,640
Speaker 1: that is, you know, urging President Biden to you know,

983
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:46,319
Speaker 1: do not only what he said he's gonna do, UM,

984
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:48,400
Speaker 1: because he promised, you know, on the campaign trail that

985
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 1: he was going to decriminalize cannabis and that he was

986
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:55,320
Speaker 1: going to you know, expende records of everyone with cannabis

987
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 1: uh felonies. And so you know, we we we're gonna

988
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:00,960
Speaker 1: keep them to that promise, and we're gonna tinue, you know,

989
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:03,040
Speaker 1: keep from pressure on him to do something about it

990
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 1: as soon as possible. UM. And then UM, you know,

991
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 1: we need to change it on the federal level as well,

992
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 1: which is why you know, we launched the Cannabis Scree, Tomorian.

993
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:14,759
Speaker 1: And here we are talking about non violent and I

994
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 1: think that's a key question for folks at home, non

995
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 1: violent offenses, uh with regards to cannabis. So I appreciate

996
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 1: your time, thank you for coming on, and certainly wishing

997
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 1: you well as you move forward in your alliance and

998
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:35,560
Speaker 1: and keeping these good folks like Ivanka Trump and everybody

999
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:40,000
Speaker 1: else uh together on this issue as we hopefully see

1000
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:54,319
Speaker 1: real justice happen. Absolutely, thanks for having me on I

1001
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 1: want to think Well had the most Again for a

1002
00:50:56,800 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 1: fascinating interview. If you're enjoying the show, please leave us

1003
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:02,440
Speaker 1: a review and rate us with five stars on Apple Podcast.

1004
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 1: If you have any questions for me, please email me

1005
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 1: at out loud at Gingeris Street sixte dot com and

1006
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 1: I'll try to answer them in our future episodes, and

1007
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 1: please sign up for my monthly newsletter at Gingeris Street

1008
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:14,279
Speaker 1: six dot com slash out loud. You can also find

1009
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:17,840
Speaker 1: me on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and parlor at Giano Caldlow.

1010
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 1: And if you're interested in learning more about my story,

1011
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 1: please pick up a copy of my best selling book

1012
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 1: title Taken for Granted, How Conservatism Can Win back the

1013
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:30,280
Speaker 1: Americans their Liberalism Failed. Special thanks to our producer John Cassio,

1014
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:35,279
Speaker 1: researcher Aaron Klingman, and executive producers Debbie Myers and of

1015
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 1: course speaker New Gingridge, all part of the Gingerish three

1016
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 1: sixty network