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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. This is Bloomberg Business

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Speaker 1: Week with Carol Masser and tim Stenoveek on Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 2: Well, lots of news in the world of space. There was,

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Speaker 2: of course Artemis two last week. We've got our colleague

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Speaker 2: Luren Grush reporting this week that NASA may not of

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Speaker 2: those new lunar space suits ready by the time the

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Speaker 2: agency hopes to lend humans back on the Moon in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty eight. That's according to a new audit to

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Speaker 2: work on that, but there's some good news.

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Speaker 3: It takes time. NASA also this week unveiling its next

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Speaker 3: generation space observatory that happened on Tuesday. The Nancy Grace

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Speaker 3: Roman Space Telescope now fully assembled ahead of its planned

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Speaker 3: launch as early as this fault. There's a lot going

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Speaker 3: on in this space. And what's funny is it was

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Speaker 3: quiet for a while. You know, you go back decades

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Speaker 3: and there was just this space race. But it got

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Speaker 3: quiet for a while, and then the private guys got

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Speaker 3: into it, and it's just fun to see so much

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Speaker 3: activity once again.

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Speaker 2: We're doing a deep dive on the world of space.

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Speaker 2: We've got Ross Hamilton with US Chief Operating Officer of

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Speaker 2: the Space Network. It has the mission to quote advance

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Speaker 2: the commercial growth of the global space sector and integrate

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Speaker 2: space technology across all industries. He's also the author of

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Speaker 2: the new book Everything Is Flying From Ancient Skies to

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Speaker 2: Deep Space, How Space Technology Shapes Life on Earth. Also

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Speaker 2: on Earth with us here in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker's.

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Speaker 3: Studio, it doesn't seem to want to go into space.

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Speaker 2: That's okay, that's a note. Well, yeah, we got Ed

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Speaker 2: Ludlow with us. He joins us here for just a

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Speaker 2: little bit more before he goes back to San Francisco

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Speaker 2: because he covers all things space here at Bloomberg. Welcome

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Speaker 2: to both of you. Appreciate you joining us. Russ I

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Speaker 2: just want to start a big picture ED reports all

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Speaker 2: the time on the private space industry, SpaceX, the IPO,

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Speaker 2: when that is going to happen, what that will mean

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Speaker 2: in the moves of these companies. Where do you think

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Speaker 2: we are in this moment right now?

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Speaker 4: I think we're in a very pivotual moment. You know,

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Speaker 4: if you've alluded to the commercial space guys are starting

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Speaker 4: to really kind of you lift off now. And I

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Speaker 4: think with what Artemis represents and what SpaceX is doing.

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Speaker 4: I think you're going to see a big, big change.

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Speaker 4: I do think that the space XIPO represents a fundamental shift.

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Speaker 4: Whatever investors think of the valuation of that, I think

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Speaker 4: you're going to see a lot of spin out from SpaceX. Similarly,

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Speaker 4: you know, now that Artemis two has completed the it's

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Speaker 4: mission it's really about putting humans back onto Mars and

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Speaker 4: of course the Moon. And I think what the administrator,

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Speaker 4: Jared Asigmann is saying is that NASA is back in

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Speaker 4: the exploration business, which means the low Earth orbit where

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Speaker 4: all the commercial obrans are is now open even more

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Speaker 4: so for commercial companies. And you're seeing that, you know,

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Speaker 4: SpaceX and rocket Lab and Amazon are all starting to

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Speaker 4: put stuff into the commercial space, you know, low Earth orbit.

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Speaker 4: And I think there's lots of opportunity now given the

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Speaker 4: fact that NASA is essentially acting as a customer in

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Speaker 4: the low Earth orbit space.

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Speaker 3: It is kind of interesting and the dynamics how it's changed.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you've been at the launches, you've been reporting

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Speaker 3: on the space for a while. What are you seeing

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Speaker 3: in terms of We obviously talk a lot about the

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Speaker 3: big companies and the big players that are out there,

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Speaker 3: but there's a lot of other companies.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's interesting that, you know Ross's kind of summary

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Speaker 5: of Jaredizingman at the helm of NASA, right, NASA has

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Speaker 5: become a bit more like the project manager rather than

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Speaker 5: the customer itself.

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Speaker 3: And like.

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Speaker 5: The way that Jaredizingmen reframe it is that NASA does

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Speaker 5: the science experiments, the stuff in the lab that is

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Speaker 5: almost on the verge of science fiction that has no

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Speaker 5: commercial logic or even viability, and that leaves space pardon

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Speaker 5: the pun for the private sector to come in and

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Speaker 5: do the things that are achievable the mission goals in

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Speaker 5: the near term. So that has been very, very interesting.

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Speaker 5: And you know, Artemis to end to end was a

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Speaker 5: great success, right, even if it was slightly behind schedule

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Speaker 5: and many billions of dollars over budget, And so now

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Speaker 5: you know, the burden of proof is on all of

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Speaker 5: those stakeholders to execute on the next phases of it.

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Speaker 4: I think that's an interesting part of it Artemis is

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Speaker 4: it's not just NASA, right, There's tens and tens of

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Speaker 4: countries and hundreds of companies involved in that, so it

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Speaker 4: really is a bit collaboration and ISAAMA recently said that,

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Speaker 4: you know, this is no longer about years before we

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Speaker 4: go back to the moon. This is about months.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 4: We've got to be thinking in months and versus years,

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Speaker 4: which means they have to collaborate with industry, which creates

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Speaker 4: opportunity for everyone who's in that entire supply chain.

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Speaker 3: I want to ask you, though, my dad was involved

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Speaker 3: in the space race back in the fifties and sixties,

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Speaker 3: working for a little company called Bendix that became Allied Signal,

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Speaker 3: that became Honeywell. But it was all about doing you know,

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Speaker 3: guidance systems.

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Speaker 5: But it was.

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Speaker 3: But it is amazing and it's just fascinating to see,

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Speaker 3: Like I always think about these rockets coming back and landing.

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Speaker 3: He would be blown away. He's not around anymore. But

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Speaker 3: we grew up with this. But there was that collaboration

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Speaker 3: that you did have government first of all, it was

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Speaker 3: a government initiative, and then you brought in all these

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Speaker 3: you know, contractors, right, So what is different about that

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Speaker 3: you see the collaboration that you talk about that might

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Speaker 3: have been different from years past. Was it just because

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Speaker 3: the government was leading it versus maybe now the private sectors.

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Speaker 4: Leading it more so? I think there's a few factors.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you know, let's not discount the involvement of

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Speaker 4: SpaceX NASA, particularly around this idea about reusable vehicles. That's

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Speaker 4: driven down the cost, which makes it more accessible, which

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Speaker 4: means more people can put stuff up in space. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: you know, that's definitely been a big factor. But it

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Speaker 4: has come in phases. You know, you talk about the

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Speaker 4: sixties and early seventies, and then we didn't because the

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Speaker 4: Cold War was kind of you know, over, and then

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Speaker 4: there was the eighties, you know, with the Shuttle, and

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Speaker 4: then we had some fortunately some disasters. But I really

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Speaker 4: think it did take you know, the vision of people

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Speaker 4: like Elon to kind of kind of fire this back

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Speaker 4: up again. But it's always been there. And I think

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Speaker 4: one thing that's that's driving things now, which does drive

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Speaker 4: the national space sector is national security.

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Speaker 3: Interesting.

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Speaker 4: If you think about how modern military warfare is conducted

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Speaker 4: and how global logistics are conducted, much of that is

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Speaker 4: through space technology. And the interesting thing is, look at

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Speaker 4: all that military development has created these spinouts for the

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Speaker 4: retail and consumer sector.

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Speaker 2: Not to mention future opportunities with Golden Dome for example, right,

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Speaker 2: and companies getting involved with that. I want to ask

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Speaker 2: both of you this question. I want to start with

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Speaker 2: with you ed Sem but you you know, Ross put

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Speaker 2: the money where it goes, you know, investing in some

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Speaker 2: of these companies, the opportunities in the near term versus

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Speaker 2: the long term. Yeah, you know, a few years ago

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Speaker 2: more in Stanley out with this big space economy report,

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Speaker 2: trillion dollars by twenty forty is what we could see

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Speaker 2: and talk about mining and all these things of like

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Speaker 2: you know, landing craft on asteroids and getting raw materials

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Speaker 2: and those sorts of things. That's a very different scenario

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Speaker 2: than you know, getting wireless internet to people on airplanes quickly,

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Speaker 2: you know, And there's a lot of space between those

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Speaker 2: those different types of goals, but that's all included in

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Speaker 2: this idea of a space of copy.

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Speaker 5: Well like here and now, the vast majority of SpaceX's

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Speaker 5: revenues in the calendar year twenty six will be starlink,

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Speaker 5: you know, and it will be nearer to twenty billion

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Speaker 5: dollars when last year it was you know, ten to

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Speaker 5: fifteen billion dollars. And we're well past the point with

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Speaker 5: SpaceX as an example where starlink is more than fifty

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Speaker 5: percent versus launch. I will not speak on Ross's behalf,

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Speaker 5: but the point of his book, while it pays due

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Speaker 5: respect to history, is that you know, the space economy

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Speaker 5: now is not just rockets and astronauts. The value of

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Speaker 5: data is very key. Even in that Morgan Stanley report

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Speaker 5: about the trillion by twenty thirty five or twenty forty launch,

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Speaker 5: part of it is so small. The bigger picture, right

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Speaker 5: is like, you know, the geopolitical we're racing China to

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Speaker 5: the moon. That's a great impetus at a nation state

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Speaker 5: level to get going. But Blue origins Raisin Detri if

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Speaker 5: SpaceX's whole original thing was to make human kind multiplanetary species,

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Speaker 5: you know, Jeff Bezos and Blues thing is like there's

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Speaker 5: a lot of valuable stuff on the Moon and in asteroids,

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Speaker 5: we should go after it, and you know the world

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Speaker 5: needs those kinds of reasons.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I definitely think the icetroid thing is is

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Speaker 4: a long term and we can discuss whether it's practical

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Speaker 4: or not. But I do think there are things you

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Speaker 4: are much closer to home. So for example, mining the moon.

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Speaker 4: You're right, it is a race to the south pole

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Speaker 4: of the Moon. We know China are looking to do

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Speaker 4: that and Why are they doing that Because there's frozen water,

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Speaker 4: there's ice there. Well, how do you get the ice, Well,

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Speaker 4: you need power, you need nuclear So there's a whole

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Speaker 4: supply chain of things required to do that in the

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Speaker 4: shorter term, and then closer to Earth, when you think

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Speaker 4: about what's happening. I was listening to the TV earlier

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Speaker 4: and we were talking about AI data centers. That's going

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Speaker 4: to be one of the things that's happening in space

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Speaker 4: as well.

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Speaker 3: You think it's a given, it's just a matter of time.

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Speaker 4: I think as a matter of time, I can't tell

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Speaker 4: you when. There's definitely some technological hurdles and there's probably

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Speaker 4: some regulatory hurdles on that. But I think for sure

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Speaker 4: there's a lot of advantage to putting of AI processing

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Speaker 4: up in space because space is driving a lot of

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Speaker 4: our lives. So rather than beaming it back down, and

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Speaker 4: when there's lots of power available up in space, why

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Speaker 4: not do it up in space.

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Speaker 2: So then the opportunities ross for investors. You talk to

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Speaker 2: these companies all the time, you know it's.

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Speaker 4: Yeah developed, right, So it's a mixed bag. So I mean,

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Speaker 4: like you've obviously got the big the big guys at

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Speaker 4: SpaceX and the IPO, and everyone wants to be a

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Speaker 4: piece of that. I actually think the interesting things on

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Speaker 4: the other end of the market. I think there's a

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Speaker 4: lot of really fascinating deep tech companies that are coming out.

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Speaker 4: Our companies Space Network. We focus on the commercialization of

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Speaker 4: space tech companies, which means helping find capital, customers, partners, suppliers,

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Speaker 4: and talent. And I think the challenge for the space

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Speaker 4: industry thus far has been a space for space ake

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Speaker 4: and I think now that we see that the opportunity

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Speaker 4: is for pharmaceuticals and agriculture and non space industries to

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Speaker 4: use space technology. That's the opportunity. But what we need

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Speaker 4: to do is get the non physicist, the non engineers

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Speaker 4: involved really think about commercialization, you know, the business people,

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Speaker 4: the marketing people, the construction people. And that's kind of

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Speaker 4: part of the book was how do we expose and

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Speaker 4: educate to a broader market that this is something that

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Speaker 4: is happening, and how do we get the young talent

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Speaker 4: and people motivated and get involved in this. So again

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Speaker 4: that's not like a short term play, right, but five

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Speaker 4: to ten years this stuff is literally taking off.

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Speaker 5: What he means is like the corp dev team, corporate development.

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Speaker 5: He say corporate development. Ima, Now it's a corporate development

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Speaker 5: comment into.

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Speaker 2: A line item.

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Speaker 3: But I do think about education because you know, my

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Speaker 3: dad was an engineer. Everybody talked to Tom Keene, I

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Speaker 3: think his dad was an engineer. There was an era

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Speaker 3: where there were so many people studying science engineer like

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Speaker 3: trying to understand this and the applications and the potential.

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Speaker 2: But there was also a national alignment insutry.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, and so you do wonder.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I went full circle. So I studied there

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Speaker 4: and artical engineering at university. I was going to work

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Speaker 4: for Rojoizero Engines, and I get hired by JP Morgan.

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Speaker 4: So I ended up in the finance and tech creator.

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Speaker 4: But guess what, I'm back. But the point was new

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Speaker 4: enough working with these companies, the space tech companies, that

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Speaker 4: they are not articulating their value proposition properly.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, this is Jared Eisaman's pitch though as well. Right,

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Speaker 5: Like part of his portfolio as a NASA administrator is

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Speaker 5: he has flown around the country since he was confirmed,

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Speaker 5: trying to encourage kid as a kid people to go

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Speaker 5: from college and work. Vanessa, right, you know that and again.

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Speaker 5: They want to be the lab, the research arm. But

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Speaker 5: that's it's trying to get people to fall back in

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Speaker 5: love with the idea again and have a career in it.

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Speaker 3: It's pretty cool stuff. This was fun. Thank you, Thank

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Speaker 3: you so much. Ross Hamilton, chief Operating Officer of Space Network.

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Speaker 3: His new book, Everything is Flying, from Agent Skies to

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Speaker 3: Deep Space, How Space Technology shapes Life on Earth and

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Speaker 3: of course the wonderful e the co Tech of B

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Speaker 3: Tech Tech.

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Speaker 5: I'll take you. I'm a techy, be tech.

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Speaker 2: He is a techie. This is Boomberg.

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Speaker 1: H m hm