WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 185 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:03.120 Also media. 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:05.760 Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:09.440 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:12.719 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:16.560 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:19.040 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:21.000 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:22.759 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:24.480 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:29.920 Welcome to it could happen here a show about things 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:33.479 falling apart this week. The thing falling apart is the 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:38.519 US healthcare system science in general, but specifically the healthcare system. 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:42.440 I'm Garrison Davis and today I'm joined by a very 0:00:42.560 --> 0:00:46.040 special returning guest, doctor Kappa Hoode. 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:46.440 Hello. 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:50.680 Hey, Yes, the thing falling apart is you, the listener. 0:00:51.200 --> 0:00:55.080 So it's very important that you listen up. You were 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:57.920 going to do anyways, but in particular, you should be 0:00:57.960 --> 0:00:59.840 paying attention here because this is important stuff. 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:04.080 So in mid May, we got some news in the 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:08.520 FDA CDC Human Health and Services front. As there's been 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:10.959 there's been a lot of news in the health front, 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:13.920 but specifically we're going to be talking about the new 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:17.560 guidelines for COVID vaccines that the FDA is trying to 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:22.800 push through in the United States. So the new FDA Commissioner, 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:29.800 Marty mccaray and the top vaccine regulator of an APRISAD 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:34.560 have published a quote unquote study you pushed back on 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:36.720 on the use of the word study in the New 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:41.279 England Journal of Medicine about the COVID vaccine booster shots. Yeah, 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:45.080 and are going to be changing the guidelines for how 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:48.040 these are going to be administered and who has access 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:53.200 to them, particularly those under the age of sixty five, 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:57.040 might have a harder time getting the COVID booster that 0:01:57.080 --> 0:02:00.400 they have like the past few years, requiring certain existing 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:03.720 conditions to qualify. And they have a whole bunch of 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:06.520 arguments for this. They say they're trying to make this 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:10.040 more in line with the vaccine guidelines and other countries 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:13.000 they're proposing for their studies on the necessity of COVID 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:16.440 vaccines for those under sixty five. Yeah, and for someone 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:18.200 like me who tries to keep up with COVID boosters 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:20.800 and you know, doesn't like it getting infected with COVID, 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:23.799 some of this can seem a little bit both confusing 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:28.160 and worrying and considering, like the anti vaccine takeover of 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:31.200 the FDA and like the federal Health services in general, 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:33.600 it's a frightening move. 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:37.040 I guess yeah. I think you're right to feel concerned. 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:39.679 It is something I am a little concerned about for 0:02:39.680 --> 0:02:42.560 a couple of reasons. One, I mean, I just don't 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:46.920 flatly agree with limiting the use of the vaccines the 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:49.360 people they're planning to limit it to. I mean, this 0:02:49.480 --> 0:02:52.600 is coming from the medical freedom crowd. I feel like 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:55.720 people should at least have the bodily autonomy to have 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:57.000 the vaccine if they want it. 0:02:57.680 --> 0:02:58.360 That's a part of it. 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:01.760 But I'm actually even more concerned about the bigger sense 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:05.720 of what this represents. You know, on the surface, making 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:09.519 some changes is not totally unreasonable to our vaccine policy, 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:15.040 and we generally reassess our COVID vaccine policy annually, so 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:18.440 that's not too abnormal. But the thing is, we have 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:21.200 this whole system set in place to do it in 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:26.520 a efficient, smart way that is public, and there's a 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:28.720 process to it. If I can give you a little 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:31.000 bit of a sense of how it normally runs and 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:33.480 what's going to happen now, I think it'll explain why 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:34.920 I might have my concerns. 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:38.160 Yeah, that would be very useful to hear. So normally there. 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:41.080 Are some clinical trials, there's some studies that happen, some 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:44.640 real world data, some points that can be looked at, 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:47.960 and then the FDA uses this advisory committee. Again, these 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:53.560 advisory committees are not career politicians. They're scientists, their public 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:57.200 health officials, their doctors, people volunteering their time. I don't 0:03:57.200 --> 0:04:01.640 think they get paid other than maybe food and their expenses, 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:04.160 but other than that, they're not paid for just this job. 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:06.640 And what this group. The first group is called the 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:11.920 VRBPAC and they determine if it's a safe and effective vaccine. 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:14.480 If it is determined that way, then the FDA grants 0:04:14.680 --> 0:04:20.040 a license and approval. From there. There's another group, the ACIP, 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:25.120 and that's an Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, and it's 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:27.000 the same sort of thing. It's a group made up 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:32.160 of scientists, healthcare professionals, public health professionals, and people will 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:35.840 come together. They'll determine who should get it, and then 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:38.400 the CDC director signs off and then it gets out 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:42.320 there to the world. Now, basically what we have is 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:46.520 two political pointees, both of which have these massive axes 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:50.159 to grind on the subject, have some severe chips on 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:53.520 their shoulder about what's happened so far to them in 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:57.360 this conversation and this dialogue. Who are going to bypass 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:00.800 this whole scientific system, who aren't to be looking at 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:04.160 these questions like what is our growing immunity? Is Annuel 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:07.520 Booster still warranted? And they're going to take this outside 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:11.400 of that and basically make the decision. And I find 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:15.200 that to be very concerning, even past like this, this 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:18.080 basic premise of like, you know, does this mean that 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:20.760 my friends or myself I won't be able to at 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:22.920 the vaccine that I want to get? So I find 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:25.680 it to be very concerning. And you alluded to that 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:28.120 article in the New England Journal of Medicine. It did 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:29.680 not alleviate my concerns. 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:32.400 One of the guys here, the guy who's heading up 0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:36.600 the vaccine regulations, has compared the US COVID response to 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:40.680 Nazi Germany. He has boosted anti vaxx claims from Robert F. 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:41.560 Kennedy Junior. 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:45.400 And he's blocked me on Twitter. Come on, and truly 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:50.920 his most heinous offense. How could you block me I'm lovable. 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:56.320 No. Me and this guy Robert Evans were joking yesterday, 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:59.600 never heard of it. Vot about how some of your 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:04.200 like personal nemeses have been have been put into positions 0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:07.520 of like government power, and how you're upset about that, 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:14.039 And I remarked, oh, first time, because this has unfortunately 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:16.360 been the trend of our work the past few years. 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:19.560 These these weird online figures who we've developed personal a 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:23.400 grievances against for being bad people suddenly now are like 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:27.160 in the p echelons of power in the US government. 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:30.560 Hey, I like them, they just don't like me. 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:35.560 I don't know if that's true, but regardless, do you 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:39.600 have any other notes on mccari and like specifically, Uh. 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:40.680 You know what I'll say. 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:44.479 So A big thing about this article that they put 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:46.800 in there, and what they talk about a lot is 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:51.560 trying to get more farm companies to do large studies, 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:56.520 which you know, on the surface totally reasonable. But the 0:06:56.560 --> 0:06:59.839 thing about it is not every problem can be solved 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:03.320 with what's considered the quote unquote golden standard of studies, 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:07.320 the double blind randomized control study. Some studies just can't. 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:10.920 They want to see that these companies are doing these 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:14.720 studies to say that it's good and safe and beneficial 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:18.280 for younger people. But there's a couple problems with this, Okay, One, 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:21.920 I'm not entirely sure that's ethical. Like, if we have 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:24.880 something that works, if we know this vaccine helps, and 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:27.280 we do CDC studies have shown that these boosters help 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:28.400 for at least four to six. 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:30.160 Months, possibly life saving medication. 0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:34.960 Exactly is it ethical to deny somebody that, Like, would 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:36.200 I want to be a part of that study. 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:36.640 I wouldn't. 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:41.320 I wouldn't want to get potentially the placebo. So that's 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:46.000 part of it. But even beyond that, to do these studies, 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:49.560 it's lengthy. They are long studies. If you want to 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:51.360 do it and you want to do it right, it 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:53.840 takes a while. So by the time they do this, 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:57.040 by the time they do the study, even if I'm 0:07:57.080 --> 0:08:00.320 being very generous in how long it takes them, by 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:02.640 the time we get the results, we'll be onto a 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:06.640 different mutation. We know that this thing mutates, we know 0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:09.280 it's going to change into a different virus, and we 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:11.120 won't even know if that study that we just spent 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:14.200 all the time doing works on it. So we have 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:17.880 other options for studying these things. They're not double blind, 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:21.000 randomized controlled studies. But we have other studies at work, 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:25.200 and there are plenty of epidemiologists out there, vaccinologists, people 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:27.640 who know way more about this than me, and to 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:30.800 be fair, know more about this than Prasad and McCary. 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:33.480 They're the ones saying this is not a good idea. 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:37.360 So I'm like saying, let's listen to them. Let's listen. 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:39.680 They know what they're talking about. They're smart people. I've 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:42.520 met some of them. They're great, and it doesn't make 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:45.040 sense to me on an ethical or practical level to 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:45.800 do it that way. 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:47.960 Do you know what doesn't make sense to me? Cave? 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:50.640 I know? I do? I do? I do? I can 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:52.720 I say? Kind? I guess you can guess. 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:55.360 I'm guessing that commercials don't make sense to you, But really, 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:57.319 at this point in your career, they should make sense. 0:08:57.600 --> 0:09:00.240 I should know by now. But still the concept is 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:02.400 is a little bizarre. Here they are. 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:13.480 Okay, we are back. 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:16.880 I guess let's get into more how this will affect 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:20.040 the average listener, Like what these things could mean like 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:22.720 both in I guess the short term and then like 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:25.040 the long term, if you're trying to plan out your 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:27.439 you know, your health a journey. What kind of like 0:09:27.559 --> 0:09:30.360 risks you have if you're you know, compromise, what that 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:34.400 means for you versus if you're magical, perfectly healthy, you know, 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:39.880 twenty five year olds, Yeah, prancing around with with no issues. 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:42.320 France and as the kids do. Kids love to prance. 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:46.080 So in the short term, it's not clear. In a 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:50.760 month that advisory committee I mentioned the ACIP is going 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:52.719 to meet, or they're supposed to meet, I don't know 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:54.559 if it's all going to happen, and they're supposed to 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:58.559 determine who should get this, so first things first, they 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:01.040 could they could disagree. It would be the first time 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:04.160 I've seen it. I've never seen the FDA and the 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:08.800 ACIP not be in lockstep in this regard. And maybe 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:10.720 it's happened, but I can't think of it in like, 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:13.719 I don't know, I don't know what'll happen. That'll be 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:15.480 a little bit of chaos and it'll be interesting to 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:18.079 see what happens to that point. But if it goes 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:22.680 as the FDA now plans, it will limit who can 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:26.200 potentially get these vaccines if you're not over sixty five, 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:29.520 if you don't have a what's considered a risk for 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:33.840 serious disease like asthma, cancer, kidney disease, certain types of 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:37.040 liver lung disease, diabetes. If you don't have any of 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:40.080 these things, then it's not clear to me. Will the 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:42.760 pharmacist not give it to you, Will the pharmacist check 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:44.360 if you tell them you have one of these things? 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:48.400 Will insurance cover it? I don't know, and that's really concerning. 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:50.760 I think the price is going to go up, and 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:54.800 that does relate to the bigger concern, the long term 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:57.800 problem in this, which is, I mean, Kennedy has said 0:10:57.800 --> 0:11:01.400 he's not taking away vaccines. Great, he doesn't actually need 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:04.000 to take away vaccines. He just needs to do things 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:05.640 like this so that nobody wants to pay for it. 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:08.120 Nobody wants to go through the process of studying it, 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:10.480 nobody's going to make them. Insurance companies aren't going to 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:12.760 pay for it. People aren't gonna end up being able 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:15.000 to afford it. They're gonna be lesser and fewer of them, 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:18.120 and they will go away naturally on their own because 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:21.520 of this. That's really the long term concern that I 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:24.760 have with this. The short term concern, I mean, I 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:27.080 don't know, it's going to be interesting, you know, like 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:30.520 there's certain things on this list that the CDC has, 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:34.840 Like for example, physical inactivity is on this list. 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:37.160 I mean, how who could argue with you on that? 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:42.640 Like, you know, if you tell the pharmacistre having physical inactivity, 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:44.640 like will they I don't know, will they check that? 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:47.480 How will they check that? So I don't know what 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:49.480 will happen in the short term and the long term. 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:51.080 Definitely big concerns. 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:53.160 It seems like part of their strategy here is just 0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:57.520 putting as many roadblocks in between you and vaccines that 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:00.520 could save your life as possible to further whatever like 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:03.480 conspiracy driven worldview that the people at the top have 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:07.040 and just like the inhumane side effects that's going to 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:08.599 have across the entire population. 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:14.240 Absolutely, I mean to also put this into context, COVID. 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:16.760 We're in a better situation than we were years ago. 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:21.280 That's certainly true. But at least from the CDC records alone, 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:26.079 forty seven thousand Americans died from COVID related diseases last year. 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:29.920 At least two thirds of that number were directly due 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:33.280 to COVID, and amongst that there are about two hundred 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:37.079 and thirty deaths from kids. That is a significant number. 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:38.920 And at least you can say at least one hundred 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:42.800 and thirty of those kids were directly related to COVID 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:46.000 and not from some other problems. So this is significant 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:48.320 stuff that we're still dealing with. In long COVID can 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:52.120 affect people. Long COVID can affect all groups. It can 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:56.280 affect young and old. So it is concerning and it 0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:59.559 bothers me in particular that the group doing this, as 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:04.440 I said, getting is the medical freedom group, and this 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:06.880 is this is sort of the exact opposite of this. 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:09.480 I think this demonstrates how much a medical freedom has 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:13.120 actually just been a dog whistle for like this conspiracy 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:16.640 theory driven belief this entire time. Like people clamoring for 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:19.720 medical freedom don't actually believe in it. They're against trans healthcare, 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:22.920 they're against vaccines in general. They want to put autistic 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:26.640 kids into like behavioral like therapy programs to try to 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:29.800 make them not not autistic. Like it's it's it's not 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:33.000 actually about medical freedom. It's about it's about advancing a 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:38.880 very specific conservative and conspiratorial worldview that actually controls what 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:40.760 other people are allowed to do with their bodies. This 0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:43.880 is like a massive, a massive part of their project, 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:46.480 and like, I don't know how else you can like 0:13:46.559 --> 0:13:49.199 interpret moves like this which are just going to jeopardize 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:50.920 people and put them even in more danger. 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:53.280 Yeah, and it's going to get worse. We can see 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:59.280 the effects already. Just today, Moderna withdrew their application for 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:03.760 a covid flu combo vaccine, a one shot vaccine that 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:05.559 would have both, and the studies on that so far 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:09.920 were really good. Actually they showed they looked really promising 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:12.160 and they're just doing this because you know, okay, now 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:15.319 do we have to have these double blind control studies 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:15.640 for this? 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:18.440 And they know it's going to be a hostile environment. 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:19.160 And now it's. 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:21.720 Withdrawn and there's going to be more and more of that. 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:25.320 Like way way before your time or my time, there 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:29.280 used to be more pharmaceutical companies making vaccines. There used 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:30.760 to be a lot more than there are now there's 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:33.400 only a handful now, but there used to be a lot. 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:37.080 And then there was like this CBS show about the 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:41.040 protessis vaccine and it was called like Russian roulette, this 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:43.240 could give you, like this could end your life. And 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:47.800 there's like one like made for TV like show about 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:50.080 it. It wasn't a movie, but it was like a special 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:54.040 they did, and it raised such concerns that letters started 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:58.120 pouring in to the network, and they then started pouring 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:01.840 into Congress and there was a whole hearing and after 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:05.640 that we had a significant drop off in regards to 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:10.040 the companies that make these vaccines, and we have a 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:13.640 few now, and I am worried that this could be 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:17.600 another sort of inflection point in that in that history, 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:17.920 in that. 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:20.200 Arc of vaccines, and we're going to get even fewer now. 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:23.920 I mean, it's been devastating watching the advancement of the 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:27.520 HIV vaccine, which seemed like it was nearing completion, gets 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:30.320 tolled for a number of reasons, including like DEI policies 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:35.160 getting pushed across these health departments because the HIV vaccine 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:40.640 research uses, you know, terms like gay and trans and 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:44.400 it mentioned gender. Yeah, you know, all all that kind 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:46.400 of stuff, which is which people focused on in the 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:49.920 first few months. I'm super nervous about the COVID nasal 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:54.560 vaccine getting basically shelved, and every like new thing we 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:59.120 see come under the FDA just makes those fears heightened. 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:01.440 Yeah, it's it's pretty rad. 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:04.920 Not to be too depressing, but that is kind of 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:08.280 the that is that is the mood of this show 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:11.760 in some ways. Yeah, like people people can still you know, 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:14.400 wash hands mask up at this point, people can still 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:17.720 get the vaccine. But like the way that the way 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:20.640 that we've been like treating like the widespread health of 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:23.440 this country has has has already been pretty bad the 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:25.760 past few years. Yeah, and this is like trying to 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:27.800 intentionally make it worse. 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:31.720 Yeah, it does. It does feel like that sometimes. Yeah, 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:34.120 I am concerned about it all, but you're all right, 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:38.120 we still have as of now. I mean, there's still 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:41.240 some options going forward in terms of vaccines, and hopefully 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:44.080 we'll continue to have them totally and we'll see how 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:46.760 this plays out. I am really curious. The next month 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:50.800 will be very telling when we have that ACIP Advisory 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:53.880 Committee again. If it's allowed to happen, and they allow 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:57.240 people like Paul offit, people who are real vaccinologists, people 0:16:57.240 --> 0:17:01.400 who know about vaccines, not just pointed political people, but 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:03.680 people who actually study this and know it. If they 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:07.720 come on and they can provide enough pressure, if people 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:11.159 can support them, then I do think that there is 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:15.840 there is some hope that the pushback will will help 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:18.680 us alleviate some of this restriction. 0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:23.200 I hope would the people on the like ACIP panel 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:27.320 be like political appointees, Do they have the same risk 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:30.679 of all these other people put in under RFK junior 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:35.919 where they're very clearly politically there versus like careerists who 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:38.439 are actually actual experts in the field. 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:42.320 Well, unless they change it. The ACIP is not set 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:45.680 up like that. The ACIP is just you know, these 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:50.560 really great group of independent doctors and scientists, public health 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:54.720 experts that are using real world data. They're looking at 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:58.439 how the immunity shifts over time. They're looking at the 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:02.120 virus and seeing if it's changing. Really volunteers that come 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:04.760 from the world of science to do so. So as 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:08.199 of now, they're not. That's not how the group works. 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:11.440 I don't know if that'll hold. I mean, I don't 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:14.440 see any reason why they couldn't if they wanted to 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:18.120 scrap the ACIP get rid of the people on it. 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:21.880 You know, people who are vaccinologists who are of great 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:24.040 significance to the community, like you know. 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:26.640 Peter Hotez or your Paul Offits. 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:28.880 These scientists who really study and look at these things 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:32.080 and put in just people who are already in line. 0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:34.120 I mean, unless I'm missing something about it, I don't 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:35.199 see why they couldn't do that. 0:18:35.240 --> 0:18:36.119 I hope they don't. 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:42.160 I think there's enough scientific background in Prasad and McCary 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:45.880 that they would recognize the importance of an independent council. 0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:47.639 But yeah, I'm not sure. 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:51.120 Well, that's good to know. We don't need to be 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:53.760 fully doom or pilled on that, but it's a good 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:54.960 thing to watch out for. 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:57.240 Do you know what I'm gonna be watching out for, Kava, 0:18:57.920 --> 0:18:59.280 I do, I certainly do. 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:01.560 You're gonna be listening more than watching, but you're going 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:17.919 to be listening for some really great ads. 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:19.480 Okay, Cob, I guess I'd also like to touch on 0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:22.800 this actual piece in the in the in the New 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:25.879 England Journal of Medicine. Yeah, they're quote unquote to evidence 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:31.879 based approach to COVID nineteen vaccination, which is more of 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:34.400 a blog post, right, it is not a study, it is. 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:37.720 It is a blog post. And specifically they talk about 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:42.320 how the United States has a much more like severe 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:46.280 vaccine strategy than other countries in Europe, and they try 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:48.760 to use this to justify their own beliefs, saying that 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:52.200 they're trying to bring things in line with the vaccine 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:54.320 policies in other countries. 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:55.800 Is this real? 0:19:56.040 --> 0:19:58.959 Is this true? I don't live in Europe. I'm not 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:04.639 super familiar with the European vaccine guidelines. I don't expect 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:05.680 you to be an expert either. 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:06.119 No. 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:09.760 It's really funny though that you mentioned it, because it's 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:15.240 so funny what they decide to endorse about European policy, 0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:18.159 like will socialized medicine. Most of these European countries have 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:21.200 socialized medicine. They will have nothing to do with that, 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:25.399 and then they'll nitpick certain things. So there is some 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:28.560 truth to the fact that we are doing things differently. 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:31.720 And again I'm not opposed to looking at that and 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:34.760 being like, Okay, what are the countries doing, does it work? 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:38.880 And could we do that? So there is a difference 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:42.800 are currently until now in the US, it was generally 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:46.240 recommended for anyone over six months. People weren't being made 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:49.239 to have this. By the way, again, medical freedom, you know. 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:52.200 No, I was pretty sure that Joe Biden will send 0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:54.520 a swat team to your house and shoot you unless 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:57.359 you get the COVID vaccine. That's what I was told 0:20:57.840 --> 0:21:00.000 on the RFKJ and your podcast. 0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:05.800 I mean he is somehow simultaneously a decrepit old man 0:21:05.840 --> 0:21:09.960 who's certainly confused, but somehow able to orchestrate an incredible 0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:14.720 from the depths darkness, deep state espionage. So I guess 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:18.600 it's possible, and that's how we do it. It's how Canada 0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:22.160 does it. The UK they do do it a little differently. 0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:25.120 They do it for people greater than sixty five. They 0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:27.879 do it for residents and care homes. They do it 0:21:27.920 --> 0:21:31.199 for people greater than six months and high risk and 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:33.439 people who are greater than twelve years of age but 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:36.679 are in a house where someone's demo compromised. They do 0:21:36.720 --> 0:21:39.639 it for anyone who's over sixteen who helps care for 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:42.760 someone who's vulnerable. And they do it for all social 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:47.000 and healthcare workers. I mean, they have a different system 0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:50.880 in place. They have, as I mentioned, socialized healthcare in general. 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:54.840 They're very good about their vaccines, so it's hard to tell. 0:21:55.000 --> 0:21:57.560 It's a little bit of apples and oranges. But it's 0:21:57.560 --> 0:22:00.800 funny what they decided to pick and not pick about that. 0:22:01.720 --> 0:22:04.640 And it's also funny why some groups are missing under 0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:07.280 our care, Like a lot of places will vaccinate anyone 0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:11.359 who's overweight. Here they don't consider being overweight a risk 0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:16.159 for COVID, so that it is funny how they're choosing 0:22:16.200 --> 0:22:20.119 their nitpicking certain things that are recommendations common recommendations in 0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:23.560 other countries and not using them here, so they do 0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:26.160 it a little differently in Europe. That is true, and 0:22:26.200 --> 0:22:28.159 again this is the kind of stuff that they're going 0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:31.400 to evaluate every year. The ACIP will evaluate the look 0:22:31.400 --> 0:22:33.640 at the emerging data, to look at the other countries, 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:36.359 to look at what's being done, and they'll discuss it. 0:22:36.720 --> 0:22:40.520 So it is true, and it does seem reasonable on 0:22:40.560 --> 0:22:42.320 the surface when they say it like that, hey, we're 0:22:42.320 --> 0:22:43.960 just trying to get and they mentioned this in the 0:22:44.000 --> 0:22:46.159 New England Journal of Medicine article, we're just trying to 0:22:46.160 --> 0:22:47.879 get more in line with the rest of the world. 0:22:48.400 --> 0:22:50.919 And that's not really true. It's like they're just picking 0:22:50.960 --> 0:22:53.840 certain things that they want to agree with and ignoring 0:22:54.160 --> 0:22:57.639 all the other stuff about their healthcare system that we 0:22:57.760 --> 0:22:59.080 could benefit from. 0:22:59.200 --> 0:23:01.800 One of the more wide aspects of this, again Glorified 0:23:01.800 --> 0:23:05.439 blog post is talking about how the COVID vaccine booster 0:23:05.600 --> 0:23:12.199 program has actually undermined public trust in vaccinations, which is 0:23:12.280 --> 0:23:14.679 like again, this is like a we're all looking for 0:23:14.720 --> 0:23:18.040 the guy who did this moment wearing the hot dog 0:23:18.080 --> 0:23:21.119 cost you I quote. Even healthcare workers remain hesitant, with 0:23:21.200 --> 0:23:23.080 less than one third participating in twenty twenty three to 0:23:23.080 --> 0:23:26.399 twenty twenty four fall Booster program. There may even be 0:23:26.440 --> 0:23:29.840 a ripple effect. Public trust and vaccination in general has declined, 0:23:30.080 --> 0:23:34.040 resulting in reluctance to vaccinate that is affecting even vital 0:23:34.080 --> 0:23:39.040 immunization programs such as that for these hills mumps and rebella. 0:23:39.560 --> 0:23:41.000 Oh so weird. 0:23:41.040 --> 0:23:43.160 I wonder if it's the people that have been talking 0:23:43.200 --> 0:23:46.920 about how corrupt and terrible the FDA and CDC. 0:23:46.480 --> 0:23:48.240 Are for like the last five six years. 0:23:48.320 --> 0:23:51.240 It's insane that they're like able to like do this 0:23:51.600 --> 0:23:53.920 like it's yeah, I don't. 0:23:53.960 --> 0:23:59.040 I mean, it is an ongoing inside joke amongst people 0:23:59.160 --> 0:24:00.720 in the medical commune unity. 0:24:00.640 --> 0:24:02.120 The hot dog meme guy. 0:24:02.160 --> 0:24:05.359 That's a very common like attribute to these to these 0:24:05.440 --> 0:24:09.880 characters who talk about, you know how how they're clearly 0:24:10.400 --> 0:24:13.480 sowing the seeds of mistrust and then capitalizing off of it. 0:24:13.600 --> 0:24:15.080 I don't know if they even mean to or not. 0:24:15.960 --> 0:24:18.560 And people ask me a lot they're like you know why, 0:24:18.560 --> 0:24:20.960 why are they why why do they do this? And 0:24:21.000 --> 0:24:23.720 I that's a tough one for me. That's your friend, 0:24:23.840 --> 0:24:26.720 Robert Evans. I ask him that every time I'm on 0:24:26.880 --> 0:24:29.440 his podcast, as there's a point in the podcast where 0:24:29.440 --> 0:24:32.080 I earnestly and I don't do this on purpose, where 0:24:32.160 --> 0:24:35.240 I just don't understand, and I need to understand why 0:24:35.320 --> 0:24:38.960 it's being done. And in these cases it's hard, you know. Previously, 0:24:39.080 --> 0:24:41.560 Vne Persod had a podcast that people really like called 0:24:41.560 --> 0:24:44.280 The Plenary Podcast in the medical community. I never listened 0:24:44.280 --> 0:24:45.840 to it because I don't listen to medical podcasts. 0:24:45.880 --> 0:24:46.359 Why would I. 0:24:47.080 --> 0:24:50.240 And what it did basically was it would break down 0:24:50.400 --> 0:24:52.440 like studies and go over them in a very sort 0:24:52.440 --> 0:24:55.879 of skeptical way. And I think it's good as a 0:24:55.920 --> 0:24:58.360 doctor to be skeptical. I think that's a good attribute 0:24:58.359 --> 0:25:01.159 for us to have, and it was useful in many ways. 0:25:01.160 --> 0:25:04.280 But then I don't know if it's audience capture. I 0:25:04.320 --> 0:25:09.200 don't know if it's true belief. I don't know what shifted, 0:25:09.240 --> 0:25:12.640 but it does seem that it was a steady growth 0:25:12.960 --> 0:25:18.040 into this contrarian perspective from the medical community that doesn't 0:25:18.480 --> 0:25:20.600 totally make sense to me, Like they all kind of 0:25:20.600 --> 0:25:25.240 feel like they're Galileo or samulwise, that they had this rare, 0:25:25.280 --> 0:25:29.159 contrarian opinion that made them special and they were attacked for. 0:25:29.880 --> 0:25:32.080 But in my mind, it's not so much that as 0:25:32.080 --> 0:25:35.879 it is. You know, there is a scientific process that 0:25:35.920 --> 0:25:39.919 we have. Galileo followed a scientific process and that's how 0:25:39.920 --> 0:25:43.440 it came to those conclusions. These people, I don't feel 0:25:43.440 --> 0:25:46.960 are following that, and they are strict to their method 0:25:47.000 --> 0:25:50.600 idolatry to what they feel needs to be done, and 0:25:50.920 --> 0:25:53.720 I don't feel like they're listening to the experts in 0:25:53.760 --> 0:25:56.240 the field explained to them why that's not the case. 0:25:56.720 --> 0:26:00.320 That's how every hero probably feels in every situation. But 0:26:00.680 --> 0:26:05.440 they have somehow become the victims in this story, and 0:26:05.720 --> 0:26:08.879 I am very curious to see now that they're in power, 0:26:09.400 --> 0:26:13.080 how that shifts and if they maintain this sort of 0:26:13.200 --> 0:26:14.600 victim mentality. 0:26:15.200 --> 0:26:17.439 Well, how can you be a victim when we have 0:26:17.520 --> 0:26:21.239 beef Tallow back at stake and shake everyone. We did it, 0:26:21.320 --> 0:26:23.200 Beef t We did it, Joe, We're back. 0:26:23.320 --> 0:26:26.160 We sure did. Maga coated coconut oil. 0:26:26.720 --> 0:26:28.480 Now I'll be completely healthy again. 0:26:29.960 --> 0:26:33.480 Yeah, Yeah, that is so funny to me that be 0:26:33.760 --> 0:26:36.240 I mean like, we could talk about seed oils, we 0:26:36.240 --> 0:26:39.360 could talk about the quote unquote hateful eight, we could 0:26:39.400 --> 0:26:42.520 talk about all that stuff. But it's it's pretty clear 0:26:43.200 --> 0:26:47.240 that oils are better than tallow for your health, and 0:26:47.280 --> 0:26:50.520 beef tallow there's very little, Like there's a little proof 0:26:50.560 --> 0:26:52.040 to prove that it's good for you, and a lot 0:26:52.080 --> 0:26:54.399 of proof to say that animal products are bad for 0:26:54.480 --> 0:26:57.600 your heart. Yeah, so it's it's absurd that that's an 0:26:57.720 --> 0:27:00.880 argument that we're still having at this in twenty twenty now. 0:27:01.080 --> 0:27:04.080 Instead of frying in theef tablet oil, instead, I just 0:27:04.200 --> 0:27:07.560 drink a full eight ounces of grape seed oil every 0:27:07.560 --> 0:27:10.159 morning to wake up. It does wonders for me. It 0:27:10.280 --> 0:27:12.840 just gets the whole body up and run in lubricates 0:27:12.840 --> 0:27:13.480 the whole system. 0:27:13.760 --> 0:27:14.240 That's right. 0:27:14.600 --> 0:27:17.199 I know you can't give medical advice, but do you 0:27:17.240 --> 0:27:21.120 have any advice to give listeners before we close? 0:27:21.760 --> 0:27:22.960 At least people who are like. 0:27:22.880 --> 0:27:28.440 You, afraid of what these changes from rfk's FDA will 0:27:28.440 --> 0:27:29.800 mean for them in their community. 0:27:30.200 --> 0:27:32.480 Yeah, I think it's okay to be concerned about it, 0:27:32.520 --> 0:27:34.480 but I do think there is some time to go. 0:27:35.359 --> 0:27:37.320 There's going to be a lot of people from the 0:27:37.359 --> 0:27:41.399 medical community fighting to try and fight these restrictions on 0:27:41.440 --> 0:27:44.400 the vaccine. So we'll see how that goes. You will 0:27:44.400 --> 0:27:46.000 probably be able to find ways to do it. You 0:27:46.000 --> 0:27:48.399 should talk to your doctor about it because your doctor 0:27:48.480 --> 0:27:52.840 probably can see a risk factor that you don't. If 0:27:52.880 --> 0:27:56.560 you don't see one that automatically fits that list from 0:27:56.560 --> 0:27:59.640 the CDC, your doctor might be able to find one 0:27:59.840 --> 0:28:02.080 that is. And I'm not talking about fraud. I'm talking 0:28:02.080 --> 0:28:04.600 about like real things. Your doctor may be able to 0:28:04.640 --> 0:28:06.600 look through your chart, look through your history, talk to 0:28:06.640 --> 0:28:08.600 you and find a risk factor that you didn't think 0:28:08.680 --> 0:28:12.080 was a risk factor, like, for example, physical inactivity or 0:28:12.160 --> 0:28:15.840 you know, smoking. So there are things that we can 0:28:15.880 --> 0:28:18.800 look for. And as they shift those goalposts, which I'm 0:28:18.840 --> 0:28:21.960 sure they will, we'll also be trying to find ways 0:28:22.000 --> 0:28:25.680 around that as well. And you know, when the ACIP 0:28:25.880 --> 0:28:28.680 comes out, there's going to be a lot of pressure 0:28:28.920 --> 0:28:32.200 on them, and I think we can pressure our Congress 0:28:32.359 --> 0:28:37.879 and we can pressure our representatives to support them at 0:28:38.000 --> 0:28:41.280 least nominally to discuss it, if nothing else, because I 0:28:41.320 --> 0:28:44.440 don't think this is getting talked about that much, So 0:28:44.520 --> 0:28:47.400 I think if we can bring it to the public attention, 0:28:48.040 --> 0:28:51.560 I think we can shift the narrative on vaccines. I 0:28:51.640 --> 0:28:54.880 do believe that the narrative has shifted on covid and 0:28:54.960 --> 0:28:58.280 vaccines in this terrible way, this revisionist way, where everyone 0:28:58.320 --> 0:29:01.200 pretends it's not it wasn't a big deal and that 0:29:01.280 --> 0:29:05.120 we didn't lose millions of people. And I think if 0:29:05.120 --> 0:29:08.160 we can keep that in the public discourse, I think 0:29:08.240 --> 0:29:09.400 that alone will help. 0:29:09.800 --> 0:29:11.480 I think that's important for us to do. 0:29:11.560 --> 0:29:15.600 And that's what people you know on Reddit and people 0:29:16.000 --> 0:29:19.040 on the Internet and Facebook and all that stuff can do, 0:29:19.160 --> 0:29:21.040 is they can help keep this in the public eye 0:29:21.200 --> 0:29:24.520 and fight that incipient I don't if that's the right word. 0:29:24.520 --> 0:29:27.440 Insidious is probably the right word. It's this really subtle 0:29:27.560 --> 0:29:31.160 sort of reconstructing of the narrative of what covid was 0:29:31.200 --> 0:29:33.880 and how important these vaccines are. So that's how people 0:29:33.880 --> 0:29:37.800 can help in the immediate future. And then you know, 0:29:37.840 --> 0:29:40.160 stay tuned, talk to your doctor about vaccines and when 0:29:40.160 --> 0:29:41.959 you can get them, and get them as soon as 0:29:41.960 --> 0:29:45.000 you can. I do think that's a good idea for 0:29:45.080 --> 0:29:48.840 both flu and for COVID boosters when available. 0:29:49.320 --> 0:29:54.200 Cave lovely talking with you as always. Where can people 0:29:54.480 --> 0:29:56.640 hear you talk more on the internet. 0:29:57.120 --> 0:29:59.840 I am on a podcast called The House of Po 0:30:00.640 --> 0:30:05.600 and it is a humor adjacent, fun ish medical podcast. 0:30:06.240 --> 0:30:08.920 I would say it's not adjacent to humor. I would 0:30:08.920 --> 0:30:10.680 say it is on target. 0:30:10.760 --> 0:30:13.960 What we're next door to humor. We next door to humor. 0:30:14.920 --> 0:30:18.040 We speak a little humor, not a ton. But you 0:30:18.120 --> 0:30:18.960 will like the show. 0:30:18.960 --> 0:30:21.280 If you like this, I think you're gonna recognize a 0:30:21.320 --> 0:30:24.160 lot of the same people. Gear, for example, has just 0:30:24.280 --> 0:30:27.600 recently been on an episode, and you know, you'll we'll 0:30:27.600 --> 0:30:31.160 get Gear on again, I hope, and you'll find people 0:30:31.200 --> 0:30:32.880 that you like. There a lot of the same sorts 0:30:32.880 --> 0:30:35.760 of people. We take a skeptical look at medical grifters 0:30:35.800 --> 0:30:37.880 and the wellness community. So a lot of the same 0:30:37.880 --> 0:30:41.160 stuff you love from these shows and the extended behind 0:30:41.200 --> 0:30:45.240 the Bastard universe. You'll also get into I think our 0:30:45.360 --> 0:30:47.960 podcast the House of Pod and find it anywhere The 0:30:48.000 --> 0:30:49.920 House of Pod, the House of Pod. 0:30:50.320 --> 0:30:54.080 The first time I met you online, I was invited 0:30:54.120 --> 0:30:56.520 onto this show. And you know, it was a pretty 0:30:56.520 --> 0:30:58.680 busy year twenty twenty. There's a lot going on for 0:30:58.800 --> 0:31:02.600 me with you know, riots and such, and you know, 0:31:02.960 --> 0:31:05.040 whatever damage was done to my brain via all that 0:31:05.080 --> 0:31:07.600 tear gas and for some reason, and I don't quite 0:31:07.600 --> 0:31:09.960 know why. I wonder if I was just conflating two messages, 0:31:10.360 --> 0:31:13.960 but I thought I agreed to go onto a medieval 0:31:14.120 --> 0:31:19.160 history podcast, not a medical podcast. So as things just started, 0:31:19.560 --> 0:31:23.280 I was a little bit confused, and then I went 0:31:23.440 --> 0:31:25.640 back to reread the message of like, oh no, I 0:31:25.720 --> 0:31:29.840 definitely says medical, and I still don't quite know how 0:31:29.880 --> 0:31:30.440 I did that. 0:31:30.520 --> 0:31:32.640 Like I said, a lot going on that idea. Great, 0:31:32.960 --> 0:31:35.400 whatever it was. Whenever you thought you were doing, you 0:31:35.440 --> 0:31:36.000 did it well. 0:31:37.080 --> 0:31:40.240 But whenever I think of your podcast, I now also 0:31:40.280 --> 0:31:41.760 think about medieval history. 0:31:41.880 --> 0:31:44.400 So there you go. Yeah, hey, okay, that's cool. I'll 0:31:44.440 --> 0:31:44.719 take it. 0:31:44.840 --> 0:31:47.160 I'll think we did do an episode one. I mean 0:31:47.160 --> 0:31:50.719 not every episode is strictly like medical stuff. Like I 0:31:50.800 --> 0:31:53.840 did an episode with these these guys who wrote this 0:31:53.960 --> 0:31:59.200 book on Sparta and the battle with the Persians and 0:31:59.240 --> 0:32:02.440 how this story has been sort of turned into something 0:32:02.520 --> 0:32:05.240 grossly that's not partially because of three hundred and partially 0:32:05.240 --> 0:32:06.080 because of other reasons. 0:32:06.160 --> 0:32:09.360 Yeah, and so there is a little bit of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:32:09.360 --> 0:32:11.360 it makes sense. Yeah, yeah, you would like that episode. 0:32:11.440 --> 0:32:13.040 How often do you think about the Roman Empire? 0:32:13.160 --> 0:32:15.200 I don't I think about how the Persians kill the 0:32:15.280 --> 0:32:17.400 lot of them, over them thermophully. 0:32:17.760 --> 0:32:20.600 That brings me a little spark of joy. Okay, good 0:32:20.600 --> 0:32:20.840 to know. 0:32:21.120 --> 0:32:24.240 Just kidding listeners, don't I don't approve of people being murdered. 0:32:24.280 --> 0:32:27.120 I don't. I don't even if they're jerks. Good to 0:32:27.200 --> 0:32:30.120 say this day and age. Thank you so much, Cafe, 0:32:30.400 --> 0:32:31.640 thank you, thank you for having me. 0:32:53.560 --> 0:32:56.960 Welcome to take it happen here. I'm your host, Na Wong. 0:32:58.440 --> 0:33:01.640 Today is the day before the thirty sixth anniversary of 0:33:01.680 --> 0:33:06.680 the Tianneman Square massacre. We're doing something a little bit different. 0:33:07.960 --> 0:33:11.160 Three years ago I wrote a pair of episodes about Tiannemen, 0:33:11.560 --> 0:33:16.360 democracy and the International Workers Movement, expanding off a piece 0:33:16.360 --> 0:33:19.959 I'd written for laos On a year before that. That 0:33:21.120 --> 0:33:24.240 was a long time ago. The world is a fundamentally 0:33:24.240 --> 0:33:28.120 different place than it was in twenty twenty one. Europe 0:33:28.200 --> 0:33:32.360 has been consumed by war. Whole revolutions rose and fell. 0:33:33.120 --> 0:33:36.480 The fact threat we defeated in the streets, returned to 0:33:36.600 --> 0:33:41.640 power in a new and more terrifying form. In this new, 0:33:42.200 --> 0:33:46.360 uglier and more brutal world, I wanted to return to Tianeman, 0:33:47.000 --> 0:33:49.320 to return to one of the great horrors of another 0:33:49.360 --> 0:33:53.200 age to see if we can take anything new from 0:33:53.200 --> 0:33:57.520 the wreckage of the Death of Hope. I'm no longer 0:33:57.560 --> 0:34:00.600 the same person I was when I originally wrote these episodes, 0:34:01.680 --> 0:34:08.319 and so today and tomorrow are Tianamen remastered. There were 0:34:08.360 --> 0:34:12.799 really three Tienemens. The first and most famous Tieneman was 0:34:12.800 --> 0:34:16.680 a student protest inside Tianaman Square itself. If you've heard 0:34:16.719 --> 0:34:22.040 the word Tienemen before this story, you know. The second 0:34:22.080 --> 0:34:25.600 Tienemen was the Tienemen of the blocks of Beijing around 0:34:25.600 --> 0:34:30.400 the square, blocks sees and transformed by Beijing's working class. 0:34:31.200 --> 0:34:35.400 If you've heard about this Tienemen at all, it's probably 0:34:35.400 --> 0:34:38.040 in the context of the tanks rolling through them on 0:34:38.080 --> 0:34:41.239 their way to the square. And then there was the 0:34:41.280 --> 0:34:45.560 third Tienemen, the protests in other cities, of which we 0:34:45.840 --> 0:34:50.319 still years after I wrote the original piece. No distressingly 0:34:50.400 --> 0:34:53.759 little about our focus today is on. 0:34:53.760 --> 0:34:55.520 The first two. 0:34:55.760 --> 0:35:00.000 The students of the student protests were a weird ideologue 0:35:00.160 --> 0:35:02.920 go grab back that cannot simply be reduced down to 0:35:02.960 --> 0:35:07.440 the simplistic pro democracy label they've been settled with in 0:35:07.440 --> 0:35:11.000 the three and a half decades since Tienemen. The short 0:35:11.120 --> 0:35:14.680 version is this the students were pissed off about what's 0:35:14.760 --> 0:35:19.319 called reform and Opening not going fast enough, and we 0:35:19.320 --> 0:35:23.040 should talk about what reform and opening actually was. On 0:35:23.120 --> 0:35:26.600 the one hand, you had some steps to ease restrictions 0:35:26.600 --> 0:35:31.160 on free speech, rehabilitate intellectuals and other people were so 0:35:31.280 --> 0:35:35.560 called bad class backgrounds, and allow for a broader public discourse. 0:35:36.480 --> 0:35:38.839 This was paired with market reforms. I started to bring 0:35:38.880 --> 0:35:43.120 capitalism back to China. This was a shit show in 0:35:43.160 --> 0:35:45.520 a lot of ways. If you want to hear about 0:35:45.520 --> 0:35:49.600 the CCP reinventing what's essentially debt peonage about five years 0:35:49.600 --> 0:35:52.800 into this process, go listen to my Behind the Bastard's 0:35:52.800 --> 0:35:56.520 episode about the poisoned milk scandal. But Reform and Opening 0:35:56.600 --> 0:35:59.239 is remembered as a kind of golden age of free expression, 0:36:00.040 --> 0:36:03.960 golden age of hope and possibility, where things really seemed 0:36:04.040 --> 0:36:09.400 like they could be different. This is not entirely accurate. 0:36:10.640 --> 0:36:14.160 Reform and Opening also saw a bunch of absolutely draconian 0:36:14.200 --> 0:36:18.160 crackdowns on the social sphere. There was the One Child Policy, 0:36:18.560 --> 0:36:21.120 a hideous expansion of the states into the sphere of 0:36:21.160 --> 0:36:25.759 social reproduction, replete with forced sterilizations, and the reimposition of 0:36:25.800 --> 0:36:29.799 patriarchal power. It saw the tightening of one man rule 0:36:29.800 --> 0:36:33.040 in the factory, the destruction of any form of worker's 0:36:33.040 --> 0:36:36.920 decision making and control over the process of their own labor. 0:36:38.040 --> 0:36:40.360 In these horrors you can see the beginning of the 0:36:40.400 --> 0:36:45.480 fragmentation of Tiannemen and Chinese politics more broadly already forming. 0:36:46.280 --> 0:36:49.680 The students wanted market reform to go faster, They wanted 0:36:49.719 --> 0:36:53.080 more freedom of speech, They sort of wanted democracy, but 0:36:53.200 --> 0:36:55.800 mostly they wanted to be in charge of the party 0:36:56.239 --> 0:36:59.000 so they could crush the bureaucracy that was holding market 0:36:59.040 --> 0:37:03.759 reforms back. It's worth noting, of course, that many of 0:37:03.800 --> 0:37:08.440 these students were involved in what became known as neo authoritarianism, 0:37:08.760 --> 0:37:11.239 which holds that the strong central party should take full 0:37:11.280 --> 0:37:15.600 control of society and destroy factions in the bureaucracy. It 0:37:15.680 --> 0:37:18.239 was an ideology that survived the death of the protests 0:37:18.440 --> 0:37:20.840 and went on to become a major faction of the 0:37:20.880 --> 0:37:24.680 CCP itself in the nineties and two thousands, and this 0:37:24.920 --> 0:37:27.280 is where some of the truly weird shit at Tianeman 0:37:27.360 --> 0:37:32.000 comes from. The students were, in many ways an incredibly 0:37:32.040 --> 0:37:35.440 hierarchical movement, which escalated to the point where student leaders 0:37:35.480 --> 0:37:38.359 were kidnapping each other for control over stages and microphones, 0:37:39.480 --> 0:37:43.080 and these protests, in terms of their nominally stated goal 0:37:43.120 --> 0:37:48.160 of influencing the factional fights inside the party, were stunningly ineffectual. 0:37:48.600 --> 0:37:50.760 The guy they were trying to defend inside the party 0:37:50.760 --> 0:37:52.880 wound up getting ousted and put under house arrest for 0:37:52.960 --> 0:37:55.640 the rest of his life, and the changes they demanded 0:37:55.680 --> 0:38:00.719 failed to occur. But Tianemen, as I mentioned earlier, was 0:38:00.760 --> 0:38:04.560 also the workers, and for most of the protests, the 0:38:04.600 --> 0:38:08.400 students absolutely hated them. Students barred workers from entering the 0:38:08.440 --> 0:38:11.919 square itself until the final hours of the protests, tried 0:38:11.920 --> 0:38:14.680 to stop workers from carrying out a general strike, and 0:38:14.760 --> 0:38:19.080 relations were in general extremely bad. This raises the question 0:38:19.560 --> 0:38:21.760 what were the workers doing there in the first place. 0:38:22.719 --> 0:38:26.440 There's a few answers. The simplest and most immediate one 0:38:26.719 --> 0:38:28.560 is that the workers were pissed off at how badly 0:38:28.600 --> 0:38:31.160 the party was treating students in the square. But there 0:38:31.160 --> 0:38:33.680 were other things going on too. The late in eighteen 0:38:33.719 --> 0:38:37.840 eighties in China saw rampant and skyrocketing inflation. The rapid 0:38:37.880 --> 0:38:41.760 price increases threatened the supply of cheap grain that composed 0:38:41.760 --> 0:38:46.400 a huge supply of welfare services provided to urban workers. Meanwhile, 0:38:46.719 --> 0:38:51.600 marketization was accelerating, and suddenly you had CCP princelings racing 0:38:51.640 --> 0:38:55.520 down the streets in imported sports cars, driving past workers 0:38:55.520 --> 0:38:58.640 on their bikes, and spending a year's salary gambling at 0:38:58.680 --> 0:39:03.680 the racetrack. And this pissed people off, so they started organizing. 0:39:04.719 --> 0:39:07.319 I'm going to read a section from a piece by 0:39:07.480 --> 0:39:11.520 Uron saying about what the workers were doing during the 0:39:11.520 --> 0:39:14.680 struggle to obstruct the military. Workers started to realize the 0:39:14.719 --> 0:39:18.760 power of their spontaneous organization and action. This was self 0:39:18.800 --> 0:39:22.839 liberation on an unprecedented level. A huge wave of self 0:39:22.920 --> 0:39:28.200 organization ensued. The worker's autonomous Federation membership grew exponentially, and 0:39:28.320 --> 0:39:33.279 other workers' organizations both within and across the workplace mushroomed. 0:39:34.040 --> 0:39:37.120 The development of organization led to a radicalization of action. 0:39:37.800 --> 0:39:41.800 Workers started organizing self armed quasi militias such as Quote 0:39:41.840 --> 0:39:45.680 Picket Corps and Quote Dared to Die Brigades to monitor 0:39:45.719 --> 0:39:49.759 and broadcast the military's whereabouts. These quasi militias were also 0:39:49.800 --> 0:39:52.920 responsible for maintaining public order so as not to provide 0:39:52.920 --> 0:39:56.680 any pretext for military intervention. In a sense, Beijing became 0:39:56.719 --> 0:39:59.960 a city self managed by workers. It was reminiscent of 0:40:00.040 --> 0:40:03.320 petrograds self armed workers organized in the months between Russia's 0:40:03.320 --> 0:40:08.080 February and October revolutions. At the same time, Beijing workers 0:40:08.120 --> 0:40:11.560 built many more barricades and fortifications on the street. In 0:40:11.640 --> 0:40:15.360 many factories that organized strikes and slowdowns, A possible general 0:40:15.440 --> 0:40:18.320 strike was put on the table as well. Many workers 0:40:18.320 --> 0:40:21.040 started to build connections between factories to prepare for a 0:40:21.120 --> 0:40:26.040 general strike. This was unaccepsible to the party, and so 0:40:26.680 --> 0:40:30.640 for the third time in seventy years, the CCP fed 0:40:30.640 --> 0:40:33.600 its own working class to the machine guns. On the 0:40:33.719 --> 0:40:36.359 night of June third, the army began to slaughter its 0:40:36.400 --> 0:40:39.279 way to the workers defending the square. It was the 0:40:39.320 --> 0:40:42.799 workers who bore the front of the massacre. Most of 0:40:42.840 --> 0:40:46.280 the casualty and lead of political repression were against members 0:40:46.280 --> 0:40:49.760 of the workers faction. The army soon reached the square itself, 0:40:49.880 --> 0:40:52.200 for the Western press Corps bore witness to what became 0:40:52.239 --> 0:40:56.120 known as the Tianeman Square massacre. This is where you 0:40:56.120 --> 0:40:59.080 get tank Man and the most famous accounts of the massacre. 0:41:00.000 --> 0:41:03.480 By that point it was almost all over. The protests 0:41:03.480 --> 0:41:06.640 were crushed and the Chinese working class died with it. 0:41:07.600 --> 0:41:10.880 But before the last bullet had even been fired, every 0:41:10.880 --> 0:41:13.840 faction under the sun began to construct their own narratives 0:41:13.920 --> 0:41:17.960 about what had just happened. The most common narrative is 0:41:17.960 --> 0:41:21.400 that Tieneman was a clash between democracy and authoritarianism, and 0:41:21.480 --> 0:41:23.920 to some extent it's not exactly wrong. 0:41:24.840 --> 0:41:25.560 There were a. 0:41:25.440 --> 0:41:28.520 Lot of other pro democracy movements in this period. You 0:41:28.600 --> 0:41:32.400 see them in Taiwan and Korea. They swept across huge 0:41:32.400 --> 0:41:35.000 swaths of Latin America and eventually spread to places like 0:41:35.000 --> 0:41:38.880 the Philippines. But the real question of the pro democracy 0:41:38.920 --> 0:41:44.160 movements was what kind of democracy. The students at Tieneman, 0:41:44.400 --> 0:41:46.960 to the extent that their democratic principles were sincere and 0:41:47.000 --> 0:41:50.759 not simply cover for a deeply authoritarian version of liberalism 0:41:50.840 --> 0:41:53.040 that demanded rule of law by a new class of 0:41:53.080 --> 0:41:57.400 intellectuals to oversee market reforms. Believed in a narrow conception 0:41:57.600 --> 0:42:02.600 of political democracy. This political democracy operates at the level 0:42:02.719 --> 0:42:06.840 of the state. It's based on free citizens equal before 0:42:06.880 --> 0:42:11.479 the law, participating in elections to choose representatives who pass 0:42:11.600 --> 0:42:15.560 laws and generally oversee and manage the state bureaucracy. This 0:42:15.719 --> 0:42:19.720 model of political democracy relegates the workplace to a separate 0:42:19.920 --> 0:42:26.000 economic sphere into which democracy does not extend. The capitalist 0:42:26.040 --> 0:42:30.520 firm or its state owned equivalent remained the absolute dictatorship 0:42:30.560 --> 0:42:35.000 of the capitalists and their managerial flunkies. Even the progressive 0:42:35.040 --> 0:42:37.680 wings of the pro democracy movements in Taiwan and South 0:42:37.760 --> 0:42:43.040 Korea maintained this private dictatorship. Workers would be given rights 0:42:43.120 --> 0:42:46.800 under the progressive regimes, permission to form unions, access to 0:42:46.840 --> 0:42:50.239 the welfare state, limited protections from the worst physical and 0:42:50.280 --> 0:42:54.040 psychological abuses their bosses could inflict. But no matter how 0:42:54.080 --> 0:42:58.319 progressive the pro democracy movement, the legitimacy of the dictatorship 0:42:58.320 --> 0:43:02.560 of the bosses was not up for dispute. To them, 0:43:02.760 --> 0:43:07.960 democracy meant a democratic state, not a democratic workplace. The 0:43:08.000 --> 0:43:12.040 workers of Tianmen alone disagreed. They stood against not only 0:43:12.080 --> 0:43:15.000 the rest of the world's pro democracy movements, but the 0:43:15.040 --> 0:43:18.920 tide of history itself. By applying the principles of the 0:43:18.920 --> 0:43:24.080 pro democracy movement to their own concerns skyrocketing inflation, mounting debt, 0:43:24.520 --> 0:43:30.000 rampant corruption by government officials, spiraling inequality, and petty bureaucratic oppression, 0:43:30.560 --> 0:43:34.000 Beijing's working class reinvented an old and now largely forgotten 0:43:34.000 --> 0:43:40.160 traditional democracy in the factory, democratic workers' self management. This is, 0:43:40.600 --> 0:43:44.319 to a large extent, what Tianmen was actually about. It 0:43:44.400 --> 0:43:46.520 was the culmination of a century and a half long 0:43:46.600 --> 0:43:49.720 war between the democratic wing of the classical workers' movement 0:43:50.239 --> 0:43:54.360 and essentially every other ideological movement on Earth. The workers's 0:43:54.400 --> 0:43:59.200 movement would fight capitalists and communists, liberals and fascists, monarchies 0:43:59.200 --> 0:44:04.360 and republics, social democracies and theocracies, and at Tienemen they 0:44:04.400 --> 0:44:09.960 would lose one final time. That defeat is the origin 0:44:10.000 --> 0:44:13.400 of the modern world. One man rule in the factory, 0:44:13.520 --> 0:44:18.040 in its thousand thousand forms is the author of the 0:44:18.080 --> 0:44:21.760 hell of the twenty first century. And when we come back, 0:44:22.280 --> 0:44:24.440 we're going to look at the international part of the 0:44:24.440 --> 0:44:39.840 struggle that ended at Tienemen. To fully understand the magnitude 0:44:39.880 --> 0:44:42.879 of Tianemen, we need to go back to the revolutions 0:44:42.920 --> 0:44:46.600 of eighteen forty eight. If you want a detailed accounting 0:44:47.000 --> 0:44:49.880 of eighteen forty eight, go listen to the Revolutions podcast. 0:44:50.480 --> 0:44:55.840 It's great. It's also many many, many, many, many many episodes. 0:44:56.480 --> 0:44:58.480 The short version is that there were a bunch of 0:44:58.520 --> 0:45:01.680 revolutions across Europe in a eighteen forty eight, collectively known 0:45:01.760 --> 0:45:04.720 as the Springtime of the Peoples. It was the first 0:45:04.760 --> 0:45:08.120 wave of revolutions where socialists were a real political faction. 0:45:08.960 --> 0:45:12.600 Frederick Engels death that angles of Marx and Engels fame 0:45:13.239 --> 0:45:15.720 was on the barricades with a rifle fighting in Prussia. 0:45:16.200 --> 0:45:18.600 There was a huge revolution in France where they deposed 0:45:18.600 --> 0:45:21.759 the king, and the question of how far democracy was 0:45:21.840 --> 0:45:25.880 going to go came for the first time to the forefront. 0:45:26.880 --> 0:45:29.600 Inside of the democratic movement itself, you had a split 0:45:29.719 --> 0:45:33.120 between the sort of French radicals who'd done the original 0:45:33.120 --> 0:45:38.080 French Revolution, who wanted electoral democracy but dictatorship in the workplace, 0:45:38.920 --> 0:45:42.400 and the new socialists who wanted to question property relations 0:45:42.440 --> 0:45:45.279 and the question of class itself, and most importantly for 0:45:45.360 --> 0:45:50.760 our purposes, whether democracy would extend past the political sphere 0:45:51.120 --> 0:45:55.360 and directly into economics. This prefigure is a split inside 0:45:55.400 --> 0:45:59.640 the socialist movement itself. For the most radical factions, control 0:45:59.680 --> 0:46:02.279 over them that means of production meant that workers would 0:46:02.280 --> 0:46:05.760 control the production process directly through free associations of workers 0:46:06.520 --> 0:46:10.200 direct democratic unions, a position later known as cynicalism or 0:46:10.280 --> 0:46:14.000 workers councils, but more conservative factions of the socialists became 0:46:14.160 --> 0:46:18.720 enamored with the bureaucratic technologies of the state. They watched 0:46:18.760 --> 0:46:22.080 with envy as the industrializing powers of the eighteen sixties 0:46:22.120 --> 0:46:27.080 and eighteen seventies engaged in increasingly elaborate planning schemes, first 0:46:27.080 --> 0:46:31.279 of roads canals in railroads, then of entire cities with 0:46:31.360 --> 0:46:36.359 complex electrical grids, gas lines, and plumbing systems, and began 0:46:36.440 --> 0:46:40.480 to believe that centralized state planning, not the democratic association 0:46:40.560 --> 0:46:44.279 of workers, could bring about the long sought after cooperative 0:46:44.280 --> 0:46:48.440 commonwealth of socialism, and that planning obsessed faction began to 0:46:48.600 --> 0:46:52.680 encompass more and more of the left. In Germany, home 0:46:52.719 --> 0:46:56.840 to the powerful German Social Democratic Party, socialists became divided 0:46:56.880 --> 0:47:01.160 between two camps, the Revisionists led by Edward Bernstein, who 0:47:01.200 --> 0:47:05.160 renounced Marxism and revolution entirely in favor of reforming capitalism 0:47:05.160 --> 0:47:10.080 in the state from within, and Karlo Okotski's orthodox Marxists. Basically, 0:47:10.120 --> 0:47:13.839 the only two things these factions, who otherwise despise each other, 0:47:14.280 --> 0:47:17.839 agreed on was the primacy of state bureaucratic planning over 0:47:17.920 --> 0:47:22.960 workplace democracy. This led to the Social Democratic Party disastrously 0:47:23.040 --> 0:47:26.000 working to break the workplace autonomy of many of its 0:47:26.000 --> 0:47:30.720 own workers, but were still The person who became most 0:47:30.760 --> 0:47:35.200 obsessed with the potential of bureaucratic state planning was one 0:47:35.440 --> 0:47:40.760 Vladimir Bilitch Lenin. As the anthropologist David Graeber pointed out, 0:47:41.400 --> 0:47:44.920 Lenin's obsession with the German postal Service was such that 0:47:45.000 --> 0:47:49.000 he included this passage about the future socialist state in 0:47:49.040 --> 0:47:52.640 his famous State and Revolution, a text written between the 0:47:52.640 --> 0:47:57.520 February October revolutions of nineteen seventeen. Quote a witty German 0:47:57.560 --> 0:48:00.959 social democrat of the seventies of the last century called 0:48:01.000 --> 0:48:04.040 the postal service an example of the socialist economic system. 0:48:04.880 --> 0:48:08.560 This is very true. At present. The postal service is 0:48:08.600 --> 0:48:12.120 a business organized on the lines of a state capitalist monopoly. 0:48:13.040 --> 0:48:16.840 Imperialism is gradually transforming all trust into organizations of a 0:48:16.880 --> 0:48:20.600 similar type, to organize the whole national economy on the 0:48:20.640 --> 0:48:24.799 lines of the postal service, so that technicians, foreman, bookkeepers, 0:48:24.840 --> 0:48:27.600 as well as all officials to receive salaries no higher 0:48:27.680 --> 0:48:31.760 than a workman's wage, all under the leadership and control 0:48:31.840 --> 0:48:37.080 of the armed proletariat. This is our immediate aim. Lenin's 0:48:37.080 --> 0:48:39.799 idealized form of socialism would thus take the form of 0:48:39.800 --> 0:48:44.800 a total state bureaucracy tasked with planning the entire economy. 0:48:45.040 --> 0:48:48.360 This would set off a massive series of confrontations with 0:48:48.480 --> 0:48:51.200 the part of the workers movement who wanted workers control 0:48:51.239 --> 0:48:54.640 over the means of production to mean workers making decisions 0:48:54.719 --> 0:48:57.759 overworked themselves and not just working for a different set 0:48:57.800 --> 0:49:02.440 of bureaucrats. The struggle bureaucracy and democracy in the workers 0:49:02.480 --> 0:49:05.799 movement mirrorred the struggle between the workers movements and the 0:49:05.800 --> 0:49:09.960 capitalist state. By the eighteen eighties, the workers movement had 0:49:09.960 --> 0:49:13.840 created variable states within a state in countries like Germany 0:49:13.840 --> 0:49:19.359 and Italy. These quote unquote states were vast networks of workers' institutions, 0:49:20.080 --> 0:49:24.600 ranging from as Grape had described, free schools, workers associations, 0:49:24.640 --> 0:49:29.920 friendly societies, libraries and theaters end quote to unions, co ops, 0:49:29.960 --> 0:49:34.320 neighborhood associations, tennis unions, mutual aid societies, and political parties, 0:49:34.400 --> 0:49:38.560 ran democratically by workers themselves, which provided vital services to 0:49:38.600 --> 0:49:41.640 workers and their families, and served so the workers hoped, 0:49:41.920 --> 0:49:46.000 as the basis for a new socialist society. Fearing the 0:49:46.040 --> 0:49:50.480 popularity of these democratic workers institutions, Otto von Bismarck created 0:49:50.520 --> 0:49:54.520 bureaucratic state run versions of the libraries, theaters, and welfare 0:49:54.520 --> 0:49:58.600 services to replace them. Telling an American observer quote, my 0:49:58.719 --> 0:50:01.680 idea was to bribe the working class, or shall I say, 0:50:01.800 --> 0:50:04.319 to win them over, to regard the state as a 0:50:04.320 --> 0:50:08.160 social institution existing for their sake and interested in their welfare. 0:50:08.840 --> 0:50:14.600 And this works. It was enormously successful. Socialists themselves came 0:50:14.640 --> 0:50:19.239 to confuse Bismarck's welfare state bribe with socialism itself, and 0:50:19.320 --> 0:50:22.440 when they took power, they replicated the bureaucratic nature of 0:50:22.480 --> 0:50:26.160 many of Bismarck's programs, eliminating the democratic aspects of the 0:50:26.200 --> 0:50:30.880 older workers' institutions entirely. But where their leaders had forgotten 0:50:30.920 --> 0:50:36.160 the democratic core of the Rowan ideology, workers themselves never did. 0:50:36.680 --> 0:50:39.560 As the nineteenth century drew to a close and the 0:50:39.600 --> 0:50:44.920 twentieth century began, workers who engaged in spontaneous uprisings instinctively 0:50:44.960 --> 0:50:49.880 began to form democratic institutions, particularly workers' councils. The most 0:50:49.880 --> 0:50:53.279 famous of these councils, of course, were formed in the 0:50:53.320 --> 0:50:56.960 spontaneous Russian revolutions of nineteen oh five. In nineteen seventeen, 0:50:57.920 --> 0:51:02.280 these councils, called soviets, were originally formed in nineteen oh five, 0:51:02.360 --> 0:51:06.120 out of ad hoc strike committees that became formalized elected 0:51:06.160 --> 0:51:09.560 bodies of representatives in the various factions who worked to 0:51:09.600 --> 0:51:13.600 coordinate the general strike. The revolution of nineteen oh five 0:51:13.719 --> 0:51:16.279 was crushed by the Czar, but in nineteen seventeen, the 0:51:16.360 --> 0:51:19.520 Russian working class would once again form workers councils as 0:51:19.560 --> 0:51:24.160 another revolution commenced. This time, the councils would take control 0:51:24.200 --> 0:51:28.520 of production, directly coordinating between various factories and industries, as 0:51:28.560 --> 0:51:31.040 well as serving as a worker's counterpower to the new 0:51:31.080 --> 0:51:35.239 revolutionary government. The Russian Revolution kicked off a period of 0:51:35.280 --> 0:51:39.319 open warfare that stretched from Italy to Argentina between the 0:51:39.320 --> 0:51:42.520 forces of democracy and the factory and the newly formed 0:51:42.640 --> 0:51:47.840 anti democratic alliance of social Democrats, Bolsheviks, capitalists. Between nineteen 0:51:47.880 --> 0:51:53.200 seventeen and nineteen twenty, workers councils formed in Germany, Poland, Austria, Ukraine, 0:51:53.239 --> 0:51:56.760 and Ireland and were matched by revolts of syndicalus unions 0:51:56.760 --> 0:52:02.560 in Brazil and Argentina. These uprisings wereal crushed in Italy, 0:52:02.920 --> 0:52:05.759 which saw some of the most intense conflict been synicalists 0:52:05.840 --> 0:52:09.200 and the Italian state. The famous occupation of the factories 0:52:09.320 --> 0:52:12.239 was ended not by the Italian government but by the 0:52:12.280 --> 0:52:17.120 Italian Socialist Party in their union, the General Confederation of Labor. This, 0:52:17.840 --> 0:52:20.880 in large part was how fascism won in Italy and 0:52:20.920 --> 0:52:23.840 in Germany. Faced with workers movements on the verge of 0:52:23.880 --> 0:52:28.160 seizing power, social democrats turned on the working class slaughtered 0:52:28.160 --> 0:52:34.000 their own comrades, propelling the fascists into power in their wake. Ironically, 0:52:34.320 --> 0:52:37.319 the worst defeat of the democratic workers movements will come 0:52:37.400 --> 0:52:39.839 not at the hands of the capitalists or social democrats, 0:52:40.320 --> 0:52:43.440 but from Lenin and the Bolsheviks, the very party at 0:52:43.440 --> 0:52:47.160 the workers' councils had put in power. Lenin began to 0:52:47.239 --> 0:52:51.000 undermine the power of the Soviets almost immediately. Published mere 0:52:51.120 --> 0:52:55.040 days after the October Revolution, his draft Decrees on Workers' 0:52:55.080 --> 0:52:59.440 Control stated in no uncertain terms that real power and 0:52:59.480 --> 0:53:02.760 authority lay with the new state and the Bolshevik dominated 0:53:02.760 --> 0:53:07.000 trade unions. In the face of massive and unexpected resistance 0:53:07.000 --> 0:53:09.680 from the workers councils, the decree is needed to be 0:53:09.760 --> 0:53:13.080 modified before they could be implemented, but while publicly declaring 0:53:13.120 --> 0:53:16.279 his support for the workers councils, the Bolshevik slogan was 0:53:16.400 --> 0:53:19.840 after all, all power to the Soviets, Lenin continued to 0:53:19.840 --> 0:53:22.160 trip away at their power until he finally admitted his 0:53:22.160 --> 0:53:25.000 real position of democracy in the Factory in nineteen eighteen 0:53:25.640 --> 0:53:30.280 in the Horrifying the immediate tasks of the Soviet government quote, 0:53:31.040 --> 0:53:36.200 unquestioning submission to a single will is absolutely necessary for 0:53:36.239 --> 0:53:39.120 the success of labor processes that are based on large 0:53:39.120 --> 0:53:44.560 scale machine industry. Today, the revolution demands, in the interests 0:53:44.560 --> 0:53:50.120 of socialism, that the masses unquestioningly obey the single will 0:53:50.440 --> 0:53:55.880 of the leaders of the labor process. This is obviously 0:53:55.880 --> 0:53:58.360 one of the most disturbing things I've ever read. But 0:53:58.480 --> 0:54:01.839 to be clear, while Lenin is more candid about what 0:54:01.920 --> 0:54:05.560 one man rule in the factory actually entails, the system 0:54:05.560 --> 0:54:08.800 he's describing isn't actually different from one man rule and 0:54:08.840 --> 0:54:12.160 any other political system. Bolshevik rule in the factory would 0:54:12.160 --> 0:54:16.320 be no different than capitalist, social democratic, or even fascist rule. 0:54:17.080 --> 0:54:20.080 The movement for Democracy in the Factory now faced four 0:54:20.120 --> 0:54:24.200 implacable enemies willing to put aside their ideological differences to 0:54:24.400 --> 0:54:28.960 ensure that workers would not run their workplaces directly, and 0:54:29.000 --> 0:54:32.000 as the nineteen twenties bled into the nineteen thirties, the 0:54:32.080 --> 0:54:35.080 movement seemed to have all but disappeared in a haale 0:54:35.360 --> 0:54:40.480 of bullets and blood. But they didn't. And next episode, 0:54:40.760 --> 0:54:45.440 our heroes, the collective hero, the world's working class, will 0:54:45.480 --> 0:54:50.160 be back. They will do many, many more revolutions, and 0:54:50.239 --> 0:54:53.520 we're going to talk about why those revolutions happened, what 0:54:53.560 --> 0:54:56.360 the ruling class did to stop them. And then returned 0:54:56.400 --> 0:54:59.040 to the lead up to Tianneman Square to see the 0:54:59.080 --> 0:55:23.600 final stand of the Chinese working class. Welcome to seek 0:55:23.640 --> 0:55:26.640 it happened here. I'm your host, Miya Wong. When we 0:55:26.719 --> 0:55:30.920 last left the story of Tieneman One, Vladimir Ilias Lenin 0:55:31.160 --> 0:55:35.760 had in theory, crushed the last remnants of the faction 0:55:35.880 --> 0:55:39.720 of the workers movement that actually wanted democracy to extend 0:55:39.800 --> 0:55:44.239 into the factories. Unfortunately, for the Leninists, no matter how 0:55:44.280 --> 0:55:47.360 many workers they killed, the demand for democracy in the 0:55:47.360 --> 0:55:52.640 factory simply refused to die for over one hundred years. 0:55:53.160 --> 0:55:56.920 The development of the mass factory system and the logistical 0:55:56.920 --> 0:56:01.880 infrastructure necessary to support it, perhaps most importantly, coal mines 0:56:02.280 --> 0:56:06.040 and the railroads used to transport that coal, generated an 0:56:06.200 --> 0:56:09.640 especially militant working class that saw democratic control over the 0:56:09.680 --> 0:56:15.239 workplace as a fundamental aspect of its liberation. Ideologically. As 0:56:15.280 --> 0:56:18.360 the Journal and Notes pointed out, this manifested in a 0:56:18.400 --> 0:56:21.120 series of interlocking beliefs about the nature of the working 0:56:21.160 --> 0:56:24.880 class and class society, all of which were necessary for 0:56:24.920 --> 0:56:29.160 the instinctive formation of workers councils to manifest themselves in 0:56:29.280 --> 0:56:33.680 moments of revolutionary crisis. In the midst of the rapid 0:56:33.680 --> 0:56:38.480 technological expansions of the Second and third Industrial revolutions, workers 0:56:38.520 --> 0:56:41.760 came to see themselves as the creators of the new world. 0:56:42.360 --> 0:56:45.400 This produced the second belief that drove the classical workers movement. 0:56:46.000 --> 0:56:50.760 The producers of this new world should also be its inheritors. Thus, 0:56:51.120 --> 0:56:53.200 the goal of the workers movement was to take control 0:56:53.239 --> 0:56:56.480 of production in itself and manage it for the common 0:56:56.480 --> 0:57:00.960 benefit of workers themselves. These two beliefs in and of 0:57:01.040 --> 0:57:03.799 themselves were not unique to the democratic wing of the 0:57:03.800 --> 0:57:08.160 workers movement. They broadly comprised the ideology of the movement 0:57:08.280 --> 0:57:11.640 as a whole, and by this point the workers movement 0:57:12.120 --> 0:57:16.320 was extremely brought, stretching from social democratic trade unionists the 0:57:16.360 --> 0:57:20.440 intellectual heads of the Leninist vanguard parties. What made the 0:57:20.440 --> 0:57:24.680 democratic wing unique was its concern with the fundamental alienation 0:57:24.800 --> 0:57:28.320 of factory life, with the condition of being reduced to 0:57:28.360 --> 0:57:32.160 an object by bosses who simply used workers as human tools. 0:57:33.040 --> 0:57:37.200 For the Leninists and social democrats, alienation was simply a 0:57:37.240 --> 0:57:41.640 product of ownership or distribution. The liberation of the working 0:57:41.720 --> 0:57:45.680 class would be found in its productive capacity, not in 0:57:45.720 --> 0:57:50.080 its innate humanity and creativity. Before the democratic wing of 0:57:50.120 --> 0:57:53.960 the workers movement, this solved nothing as long as the 0:57:53.960 --> 0:57:57.840 fundamental reduction from human to object that characterized one man 0:57:58.000 --> 0:58:01.720 rule in the factory persisted. Changes and owners of structure 0:58:01.760 --> 0:58:06.680 and health benefits missed the entire point that degradation could 0:58:06.720 --> 0:58:09.520 only be solved by returning agency and autonomy to the 0:58:09.560 --> 0:58:13.880 working class, by giving it the class itself control over 0:58:13.920 --> 0:58:18.880 the production process that for so long had controlled them. 0:58:19.440 --> 0:58:22.680 In nineteen thirty six, Spanish workers decided to take matters 0:58:22.680 --> 0:58:26.360 into their own hands and seized control over their workplace's 0:58:26.440 --> 0:58:30.240 end mass. The Spanish Revolution, as it later became known, 0:58:30.920 --> 0:58:33.960 would become the largest and most extensive experiment in democratic 0:58:34.000 --> 0:58:38.600 worker self management before or since. Everything from public utilities 0:58:38.640 --> 0:58:42.240 to bakeries, to hospitals to shoe factories fell under the 0:58:42.240 --> 0:58:47.160 control of the direct democratic unions, and once the former 0:58:47.200 --> 0:58:50.320 bosses had been chased from the premises, the workers set 0:58:50.360 --> 0:58:55.080 about transforming the entirety of Spanish society along democratic lines, 0:58:55.680 --> 0:59:00.560 pulling their resources collectively and allocating them democratically the benefit 0:59:00.880 --> 0:59:05.480 of everyone. For a brief moment, the triumphant experiment in 0:59:05.520 --> 0:59:09.760 democratic self management delivered on its promises. Output increased dramatically, 0:59:09.880 --> 0:59:13.440 social services were expanded, and the workers of Spain, by 0:59:13.480 --> 0:59:17.200 their own self organization developed a universal health care system 0:59:17.360 --> 0:59:21.160 that dramatically expanded service into rural areas where care was 0:59:21.200 --> 0:59:25.520 previously inaccessible. But the revolution had begun amidst a violent 0:59:25.560 --> 0:59:28.080 civil war in Spain and under the guise of an 0:59:28.080 --> 0:59:32.800 anti fascist alliance, Liberal socialist and stoutist forces brutally stamped 0:59:32.800 --> 0:59:37.080 out any attempt at democratic self management and returned the 0:59:37.120 --> 0:59:40.160 factories to their owners, before losing the war to the 0:59:40.200 --> 0:59:45.360 fascist armies of Francisco Franco. Undeterred by the mounting casualty 0:59:45.400 --> 0:59:50.960 tolls of promannagerial massacres, revolutionary workers formed workers' councils and 0:59:51.080 --> 0:59:54.520 mass factory assemblies once again in Hungary in nineteen fifty six, 0:59:54.920 --> 0:59:58.280 and then again in Italy, France and Czechoslovakia in nineteen 0:59:58.320 --> 1:00:03.680 sixty eight. Hungary, in particular is an interesting revolution because 1:00:03.680 --> 1:00:06.080 over the years it has been subjected to so much 1:00:06.120 --> 1:00:10.040 of the same liberal mythologization you get with Tienemen, but 1:00:10.160 --> 1:00:15.200 this time even worse. The Hungarian Revolution is remembered as 1:00:15.200 --> 1:00:18.400 a liberal democratic revolution. But if you talk to the 1:00:18.440 --> 1:00:22.360 actual people who did the revolution, they were saying things like, 1:00:22.480 --> 1:00:24.360 and this is a direct quote from a member of 1:00:24.400 --> 1:00:27.760 a Hungarian workers council quote, the time when the boss 1:00:27.760 --> 1:00:33.640 decided our fate is over. In reality, far from simply 1:00:33.720 --> 1:00:38.920 instituting liberal democratic democracy, Hungarian workers seized control of their 1:00:38.960 --> 1:00:43.080 factories and workplaces, forward workers' councils, and overthrew the government 1:00:43.160 --> 1:00:46.720 before Russian tanks slaughtered them. This was not a liberal 1:00:46.720 --> 1:00:50.720 democratic revolution at all. Almost identical revolts broke out across 1:00:50.760 --> 1:00:54.360 the capitalist world as well, in Italy, in France and Chile, 1:00:55.040 --> 1:01:00.320 communes broke out and colonized Vietnam. They spread everywhere, and 1:01:00.400 --> 1:01:03.960 to the dismay of capitalists and communists alike. The development 1:01:04.040 --> 1:01:08.320 and implementation of the democratic solution to alienation these revolts 1:01:08.400 --> 1:01:13.040 provided was largely instinctual, and it often emerged in places 1:01:13.040 --> 1:01:18.240 without established workers movements and the political education effects typical 1:01:18.280 --> 1:01:21.000 of such movements. Was the course of the revolution in Algeria. 1:01:21.960 --> 1:01:25.000 The political education Algerian workers had received was from the 1:01:25.080 --> 1:01:29.840 nationalist vanguardist National Liberation Front f l N, which had 1:01:29.880 --> 1:01:34.120 prosecuted the war against the French colonizers. The Afalen's ideology 1:01:34.160 --> 1:01:37.600 emphasized the decisive role of the state in national development. 1:01:38.320 --> 1:01:43.520 Upon taking power, however, Ahmed BenBella, Algeria's first president, discovered 1:01:43.600 --> 1:01:46.920 the question of the economic structure of Algeria had already 1:01:46.920 --> 1:01:50.200 been answered for him. Production would be managed by democratic 1:01:50.240 --> 1:01:53.600 workers councils built on the properties seized by Algerian workers 1:01:54.160 --> 1:01:57.160 after the mass exodus of French settlers who fled the 1:01:57.160 --> 1:02:02.440 country following independence, left much of their property uninhabited. Then, 1:02:02.480 --> 1:02:05.000 Bello's administration took a page out of Lenin's book and 1:02:05.000 --> 1:02:08.720 publicly supported the councils while privately undermining them. But the 1:02:08.760 --> 1:02:11.640 whole dispute was made irrelevant by a military coup two 1:02:11.720 --> 1:02:15.680 years later that dismantled the councils completely and reimposed one 1:02:15.680 --> 1:02:19.600 man rule in the factory. Still, even by the late seventies, 1:02:19.680 --> 1:02:22.640 it was by no means clear that one man rule 1:02:22.640 --> 1:02:26.080 in the factory would triumph as a political system. Workers 1:02:26.080 --> 1:02:29.240 and students almost took Italy in nineteen seventy seven, and 1:02:29.280 --> 1:02:32.120 the CNT, the anarchist union that had led so much 1:02:32.120 --> 1:02:35.760 of the Spanish Revolution, reappeared after the death of Franco. 1:02:36.680 --> 1:02:39.880 For a brief fleeting moment in the late nineteen seventies, 1:02:40.560 --> 1:02:42.400 it really looked like they were going to do it. 1:02:43.840 --> 1:02:46.640 The persistence of these revolts in the face of pure 1:02:46.680 --> 1:02:51.280 military repression caused capitalist managery elites to look for ways 1:02:51.280 --> 1:02:55.080 to dismantle the systemic structures that produced the democratic revolts 1:02:55.120 --> 1:02:58.200 without giving up their power. As author and friend of 1:02:58.200 --> 1:03:01.920 the show, Viciostre Wild points out, the instinctive embrace of 1:03:01.960 --> 1:03:05.560 democracy in the factory was only possible so long as 1:03:05.600 --> 1:03:08.880 the factory remained a point of encounter, a kind of 1:03:08.960 --> 1:03:13.600 dark agra that at once both exploited workers and facilitated 1:03:13.640 --> 1:03:17.240 the interactions allowed them to identify with each other as 1:03:17.320 --> 1:03:22.240 a class and find and produce collective meaning. Thus, the 1:03:22.280 --> 1:03:26.560 fundamental thrust of the attack against democratic self management would 1:03:26.600 --> 1:03:28.680 take the form of an attack on the shop floor 1:03:28.720 --> 1:03:32.440 as a site of collective identity formation and as a 1:03:32.480 --> 1:03:35.720 space that could be seen in any way as liberatory. 1:03:37.080 --> 1:03:41.960 This assault took a number of forms, most famously deindustrialization itself, 1:03:42.400 --> 1:03:45.040 as well as the spatial relocation of factories from urban 1:03:45.080 --> 1:03:48.400 centers into the suburbs, where workers could be isolated from 1:03:48.400 --> 1:03:51.920 each other and turned to homeowners bought off with the 1:03:51.960 --> 1:03:54.760 combination of cheap credit and the promise that the new 1:03:54.760 --> 1:03:56.520 homes would also function as assets. 1:03:57.520 --> 1:03:58.680 The quote unquote. 1:03:58.360 --> 1:04:02.920 Democratization of finance replaced the democratization of the factory, as 1:04:02.960 --> 1:04:05.840 the capitalist class funneled union pensions into the stock market, 1:04:06.400 --> 1:04:09.680 thus tying remained of organized labor to the fates of 1:04:09.720 --> 1:04:13.520 capitalism itself. Corporations began to turn the workplace into an 1:04:13.520 --> 1:04:18.160 immense propaganda apparatus, replete with mass ideological programming designed to 1:04:18.160 --> 1:04:21.840 promote identification with the corporation itself and not the working 1:04:21.840 --> 1:04:25.520 class as a whole. Worst of all, the mobility of 1:04:25.560 --> 1:04:28.920 capital and the immobility of workers combined with the new logistics, 1:04:28.960 --> 1:04:33.200 networks and technological advances in containerized shipping to create a 1:04:33.240 --> 1:04:36.560 world where if workers ever began to get the upper hand, 1:04:37.160 --> 1:04:41.040 capitalists could simply move elsewhere As the total size of 1:04:41.040 --> 1:04:45.280 the industrial working class contracted, capitalists increasingly took that option 1:04:45.360 --> 1:04:48.360 in the left, spitting vast populations out of the traditional 1:04:48.360 --> 1:04:53.200 workforce entirely. These developments would eventually destroy the classical workers movement, 1:04:53.720 --> 1:04:56.640 But in order for the anti democratic counter revolution to succeed, 1:04:57.160 --> 1:05:00.880 it needed somewhere to move their production to somewhere with 1:05:00.960 --> 1:05:06.000 a large, exploitable labor supply. The capitalist class found that 1:05:06.080 --> 1:05:19.840 answer in China in the wake of the CCP's victory 1:05:19.840 --> 1:05:22.640 in the Chinese Civil War in nineteen forty nine. The 1:05:22.760 --> 1:05:26.240 Chinese factory system was extremely different from the system that 1:05:26.360 --> 1:05:30.200 existed anywhere else in the world. Chinese state owned firms 1:05:30.360 --> 1:05:34.360 virtually lacked the ability to fire workers. People's entire social 1:05:34.400 --> 1:05:37.680 sphere was built around their work units, which provided everything 1:05:37.720 --> 1:05:40.920 from their healthcare to their retirement, to their food to 1:05:41.040 --> 1:05:46.000 often their entertainment. The CCP also eliminated the piece rate system, 1:05:46.440 --> 1:05:49.000 a system in which people were paid per unit they produced, 1:05:49.360 --> 1:05:53.000 which is, for example, how the USSR worked. This meant 1:05:53.040 --> 1:05:55.800 that in order to get people to work, bosses had 1:05:55.920 --> 1:05:59.160 very little leverage. They were thus forced to allow a 1:05:59.200 --> 1:06:01.440 degree of participant patient in the labor process and the 1:06:01.480 --> 1:06:05.360 ability to criticize bosses, because otherwise it was virtually impossible 1:06:05.400 --> 1:06:09.080 to get anyone to do anything. Chinese bosses solved this 1:06:09.160 --> 1:06:13.000 problem through a combination of mass ideological work and a parentalistic, 1:06:13.280 --> 1:06:16.439 semi democratic system for determining the heads of work teams that, 1:06:16.680 --> 1:06:19.680 while raked by the party, ensured that managers would at 1:06:19.800 --> 1:06:23.800 least be somewhat popular. Till the process was strictly managed, 1:06:24.240 --> 1:06:27.400 workers had the ability to criticize the cadra to govern them, 1:06:27.760 --> 1:06:30.640 and combine the work unit's system of folding home and 1:06:30.680 --> 1:06:33.680 social life into the factory system. The product of this 1:06:33.760 --> 1:06:36.440 system was that because there was already a greater degree 1:06:36.760 --> 1:06:40.680 of workers' participation in Chinese factories than workers elsewhere, and 1:06:40.720 --> 1:06:43.600 because of some of the structural elements of Maoism, demands 1:06:43.640 --> 1:06:47.200 for democracy became delinked from the workplace, and it meant 1:06:47.200 --> 1:06:50.280 that the system, at least in the cities worked sort 1:06:50.320 --> 1:06:54.840 of okay until the Cultural Revolution. This means that it 1:06:54.920 --> 1:06:58.200 is time for me to do the culture revolution. Rant 1:06:58.840 --> 1:07:03.120 everyone gets the Culture Revolution completely wrong. The initial targets 1:07:03.160 --> 1:07:06.400 of the Cultural Revolution were kids with quote unquote black blood, 1:07:07.000 --> 1:07:10.320 the children of people who had quote bad class backgrounds. 1:07:10.840 --> 1:07:15.720 These people were heavily persecuted. And you can make arguments 1:07:15.760 --> 1:07:19.000 about what you do with, you know, a Shanghai oligarch 1:07:19.080 --> 1:07:23.680 collaborates with the Japanese imperialists. But this extends to the 1:07:23.880 --> 1:07:28.160 children of people from quote unquote bad class backgrounds, and 1:07:28.200 --> 1:07:32.120 that term is extremely loose. I know people whose families 1:07:32.120 --> 1:07:35.080 were declared of black class background, who had quote unquote 1:07:35.120 --> 1:07:37.840 black blood and weren't allowed to hold government positions because 1:07:37.840 --> 1:07:41.640 her family had made bird feeders before the revolution. It 1:07:41.760 --> 1:07:45.680 was as a system, absolutely nonsense. So what the early 1:07:45.720 --> 1:07:49.880 phases of the Cultural Revolution amounted to was a bunch 1:07:49.960 --> 1:07:52.560 of privileged kids from red class backgrounds in a new 1:07:52.640 --> 1:07:55.880 system attacking a bunch of kids who were being persecuted 1:07:55.920 --> 1:07:58.320 for stuff that was literally not their fault at all. 1:07:58.400 --> 1:08:01.280 They had no way to control who their parents were now. 1:08:01.680 --> 1:08:04.640 The initial stages of the Cultural Revolution were largely driven 1:08:04.680 --> 1:08:07.200 by Mao attempting to play power games inside the party, 1:08:07.880 --> 1:08:10.760 but as things became more and more chaotic and the 1:08:10.840 --> 1:08:14.800 attacks on CCP, Bear Gratz and Caudra escalated, it spiraled 1:08:14.880 --> 1:08:17.679 nearly out of Mao's control entirely and produced what's called 1:08:17.680 --> 1:08:21.400 the January Storm, where rebel workers seized control of Shanghai 1:08:21.439 --> 1:08:24.880 and drove out the CCP, and this caused what I 1:08:24.880 --> 1:08:29.839 would describe as a oh fuck moment for Mao, because now, 1:08:30.080 --> 1:08:34.120 despite all his rhetoric about bombarding the headquarters, he had 1:08:34.240 --> 1:08:37.960 to actually deal with a workers controlled city. And I 1:08:38.080 --> 1:08:41.200 found this incredible line from Joe and Lai in a 1:08:41.200 --> 1:08:43.960 meeting with Mao where they were attempting to figure out 1:08:44.000 --> 1:08:48.880 what to do with this new revolutionary Shanghai quote. When 1:08:48.920 --> 1:08:51.120 asked whether the new leadership should be elected from the 1:08:51.120 --> 1:08:54.960 bottom up, Joe and Lai bluntly replied that quote, anarchism 1:08:55.000 --> 1:08:57.799 is bound to develop if we immediately implement direct election 1:08:57.920 --> 1:09:02.120 at the Paris Commune style. And this was obviously a 1:09:02.160 --> 1:09:05.640 problem for now because there was no way for the 1:09:05.680 --> 1:09:09.479 party to maintain its long term control if you know, 1:09:09.720 --> 1:09:13.000 you actually implemented the direct elections in the style of 1:09:13.400 --> 1:09:17.439 the Paris Commium. And so instead we saw a full 1:09:17.479 --> 1:09:22.040 on counter revolution. By about nineteen sixty eight, rebel workers 1:09:22.040 --> 1:09:25.640 and students were getting slaughtered everywhere. The initial uprisings, the 1:09:25.680 --> 1:09:28.320 stuff that everyone remembers with the dunce caps and the placards, 1:09:28.960 --> 1:09:32.680 was staggeringly by far the least violent part of the 1:09:32.680 --> 1:09:37.160 cultural revolution. Here's from Walder, an academic who spent a 1:09:37.160 --> 1:09:40.240 significant amount of time studying the actual death records city 1:09:40.240 --> 1:09:44.200 by city and province by province in the Chinese Archives quote, 1:09:44.439 --> 1:09:47.719 more than three fourths of all documented deaths in local 1:09:47.760 --> 1:09:50.160 annals are due to the actions of authorities in this 1:09:50.280 --> 1:09:54.240 third phase, in more than ninety percent of those persecuted 1:09:54.240 --> 1:09:58.559 for alleged political crimes. This third phase nineteen sixty eight 1:09:58.600 --> 1:10:02.320 onward is to the people, and the culture revolution gets killed. 1:10:02.840 --> 1:10:06.240 And this is the opposite of the way that the 1:10:06.280 --> 1:10:09.680 Culture Revolution is understood. Most of the killing wasn't the 1:10:09.680 --> 1:10:12.800 product of student radicalism gone out of control. It was 1:10:12.800 --> 1:10:16.040 the state slaughtering its way through various rebel factions that 1:10:16.080 --> 1:10:20.080 did most of the killing and the political persecution. And 1:10:20.120 --> 1:10:24.439 this has enormous effects on subsequent Chinese history. It creates 1:10:24.479 --> 1:10:27.439 a ruling class that's incredibly paranoid about anything that even 1:10:27.560 --> 1:10:30.679 smells like organizing happening outside the party, and the most 1:10:30.760 --> 1:10:33.559 radical students and workers were simply butchered by the state. 1:10:34.280 --> 1:10:37.360 And by the late nineteen seventies, radical politics in China 1:10:37.479 --> 1:10:40.719 that could have produced anything even remotely like democratic control 1:10:40.720 --> 1:10:43.639 of the workplace had collapsed almost entirely in the face 1:10:43.640 --> 1:10:47.639 of state repression. In their wake, politics moved towards more 1:10:47.640 --> 1:10:51.639 intellectual driven liberal democratic politics that broadly ignored the working 1:10:51.640 --> 1:10:56.040 class entirely, as danzhel ping unleashed the horrific one child 1:10:56.080 --> 1:11:00.599 policy and in draconian an ultimately successful attempt to established 1:11:00.600 --> 1:11:03.960 the state's patriarchal control over the household and stripped hundreds 1:11:04.000 --> 1:11:06.360 of millions of women of even the limited autonomy they 1:11:06.360 --> 1:11:09.759 had clawed out of the Cultural Revolution. But the beginning 1:11:09.760 --> 1:11:13.320 of marketization, the gradual dismantling of the socialist welfare state, 1:11:13.640 --> 1:11:16.439 and a wave of inflation produced a series of economic 1:11:16.520 --> 1:11:30.000 changes that turned Chinese society into a powder keg. By 1:11:30.080 --> 1:11:33.680 nineteen eighty nine, the classical workers' movement globally was on 1:11:33.720 --> 1:11:37.559 its last legs. Unable to spark its own uprisings, it 1:11:37.640 --> 1:11:40.400 latched onto a series of other social and political movements, 1:11:40.880 --> 1:11:45.320 most notably pro democracy movement in China. But democratic self 1:11:45.360 --> 1:11:47.400 management and its critique of one man rule in the 1:11:47.439 --> 1:11:51.519 factory was utterly alien to the pro democracy movement, which 1:11:51.600 --> 1:11:54.760 meant that its development by the workers of Ganemen was 1:11:54.800 --> 1:11:58.040 a spontaneous product of the application of the principles of 1:11:58.080 --> 1:12:02.160 democracy to their own situation. This led to formulations that 1:12:02.200 --> 1:12:05.400 would have been unfamiliar to previous incarnations to the workers' movement. 1:12:06.000 --> 1:12:08.880 One worker interviewed by Walder said this about democracy in 1:12:08.920 --> 1:12:11.519 the factory. Why do a lot of workers agree with 1:12:11.560 --> 1:12:14.920 democracy and freedom in the workshop? Does what the workers 1:12:14.920 --> 1:12:18.400 say count or what the leader says. We later talked 1:12:18.400 --> 1:12:21.520 about it. In the factory, the director is a dictator. 1:12:21.760 --> 1:12:25.000 What one man says goes. If you view the state 1:12:25.040 --> 1:12:28.160 through the factory, it's about the same one man rule. 1:12:28.960 --> 1:12:32.320 Our objective was not very high. We just wanted workers 1:12:32.360 --> 1:12:35.640 to have their own independent organization in work units. It's 1:12:35.720 --> 1:12:39.439 personal rule. For example, if I want to change jobs, 1:12:39.479 --> 1:12:42.000 the bus company foreman won't let me go. I ought 1:12:42.040 --> 1:12:43.880 to go home at five, but he tells me to 1:12:43.920 --> 1:12:46.200 work overtime for two hours, and if I don't, he'll 1:12:46.200 --> 1:12:50.360 cut my bonuses. This is personal rule. A factory should 1:12:50.360 --> 1:12:52.759 have a system. If a worker wants to change jobs, 1:12:52.760 --> 1:12:54.720 they ought to have a system of rules decided how 1:12:54.720 --> 1:12:57.519 to do it. Also, these rules should be decided upon 1:12:57.560 --> 1:13:00.400 by everyone, and then afterwards anyone who violent and we 1:13:00.479 --> 1:13:04.200 punished according to the rules. This is rule by law. Now, 1:13:04.280 --> 1:13:06.520 we don't have this kind of legal system. 1:13:06.960 --> 1:13:07.240 Now. 1:13:07.560 --> 1:13:11.200 This is obviously an extremely conservative framing of the classical 1:13:11.240 --> 1:13:14.120 critique of one man rule in the factory couched in 1:13:14.200 --> 1:13:17.280 the dominant political rhetoric of the rule of law. But 1:13:17.360 --> 1:13:20.840 any attempt to actually implement this system, that which workers 1:13:20.880 --> 1:13:23.240 controlled the factories they work in, how long they work, 1:13:23.320 --> 1:13:26.760 and what the bonus rate was democratically to an independent organization, 1:13:26.840 --> 1:13:30.759 could only end in democratic, self managed workplaces. As Walder 1:13:30.800 --> 1:13:33.519 and jang If pointed out, the workers at the Beijing 1:13:33.560 --> 1:13:37.960 Workers Autonomous Federation were uniformly uneducated. It had little or 1:13:38.000 --> 1:13:40.879 no connection to any of the various liberal intellectual circles. 1:13:41.680 --> 1:13:43.960 This was as pure a workers we've met as any 1:13:44.000 --> 1:13:47.880 in Chinese history, and for one final time, the instinct 1:13:47.960 --> 1:13:50.839 of that working class was to demand democracy in the factory. 1:13:51.800 --> 1:13:56.720 This demand, above all others, was politically unacceptable. When the 1:13:56.840 --> 1:14:00.000 army marched on Beijing, it was the Chinese working class 1:14:00.120 --> 1:14:03.760 wiped out. Even the memory of the demand for democracy 1:14:03.760 --> 1:14:05.680 in the factory would be scrubbed from the records that 1:14:05.760 --> 1:14:09.320 the CCP and the pro democracy movements alike, thus ensuring 1:14:09.400 --> 1:14:14.120 the meaning of the events would be lost. What then 1:14:14.840 --> 1:14:18.479 was Tianemen In some sense, it was a transition point 1:14:18.520 --> 1:14:22.080 between two different Chinese working classes. The protests were the 1:14:22.160 --> 1:14:25.360 high water mark of the political mobilization of the old 1:14:25.400 --> 1:14:30.080 industrial working class, who, in the streets surrounding Tienemen mounted 1:14:30.080 --> 1:14:33.360 the final attack of the classical workers movement. Their defeat 1:14:33.600 --> 1:14:36.200 ended the old working class as a political force, and 1:14:36.240 --> 1:14:39.360 they were annihilated altogether in the economic restructure of the 1:14:39.400 --> 1:14:43.320 nineteen nineties, which crushed the last vestides of workers' autonomy 1:14:43.320 --> 1:14:46.000 in the factory and destroyed what remained of the Chinese 1:14:46.040 --> 1:14:49.879 welfare state. They were replaced by a new working class 1:14:50.560 --> 1:14:53.240 drawn from the rural and semi urban under classes of 1:14:53.280 --> 1:14:56.799 the old socialist system, who were dragged into the cities 1:14:56.800 --> 1:14:58.679 to fill the ranks of the two hundred and seventy 1:14:58.680 --> 1:15:02.400 seven million migrant works that today comprise the background of 1:15:02.479 --> 1:15:07.479 China's working class. This new working class, with rural household 1:15:07.520 --> 1:15:11.520 registration in no way into the remaining state owned factories, 1:15:11.800 --> 1:15:14.520 would have none of the benefits of the previous one. 1:15:14.680 --> 1:15:17.840 It would instead face a full raft of capitalist ideology 1:15:18.640 --> 1:15:21.880 baked into every aspect of workplace culture, and a massive 1:15:21.880 --> 1:15:25.519 attempt to encourage home ownership. While the previous working class 1:15:25.560 --> 1:15:28.639 could at least pausit a democratic form of the factory 1:15:28.680 --> 1:15:32.040 to which life could be improved. This new working class's 1:15:32.040 --> 1:15:34.960 greatest desire was to leave the factory entirely and become 1:15:34.960 --> 1:15:38.720 a business owner. In this sense, it considers itself to 1:15:38.760 --> 1:15:44.160 be a temporarily embarrassed petie bourgeoisie. Such ideological selfconceptions are 1:15:44.160 --> 1:15:47.000 inimical to the formation of the classical workers movement, and 1:15:47.120 --> 1:15:50.080 indeed the new Chinese working class has largely failed to 1:15:50.080 --> 1:15:54.240 find the collective identity in the workplace. The situation is 1:15:54.320 --> 1:15:57.920 not unique. The death of the classical workers movement has 1:15:57.960 --> 1:16:02.040 seen the collapse of their demands democratic self management everywhere 1:16:02.200 --> 1:16:05.559 in the face of a working class it refuses to 1:16:05.600 --> 1:16:10.120 cohere itself in the factory. China was just late to 1:16:10.160 --> 1:16:15.040 the game. The fact remains, however, that the global economic 1:16:15.160 --> 1:16:18.080 system has lurned from crisis to crisis for the better 1:16:18.120 --> 1:16:21.800 part of my lifetime, setting off in its wake an 1:16:21.800 --> 1:16:25.040 increasing number of revolutions, even as the darker gore of 1:16:25.080 --> 1:16:28.120 the factory ceased to function as a place to form 1:16:28.160 --> 1:16:32.920 identities for this new working class. If a collective identity 1:16:32.920 --> 1:16:35.160 couldnot be forged in the factory, it would be foraged 1:16:35.160 --> 1:16:39.160 in the street instead, lacking a positive identity to cohere 1:16:39.160 --> 1:16:43.280 itself around workers were only able to mobilize on a 1:16:43.320 --> 1:16:46.879 mass basis in direct opposition to a force that threatens 1:16:46.920 --> 1:16:50.400 it on a cross sectoral basis. The state, with its 1:16:50.400 --> 1:16:53.160 ability to increase the price of basic commodities and slash 1:16:53.200 --> 1:16:57.120 welfare benefits, became the only available enemy, and the constant 1:16:57.120 --> 1:16:59.439 fights against the police became the sole basis for new 1:16:59.479 --> 1:17:03.920 collective identity formation. Contemporary revolts have thus taken the form 1:17:03.960 --> 1:17:07.960 of mass street movements in almost continuous confrontations with the states. 1:17:08.960 --> 1:17:12.720 Factory occupations were replaced with square occupations, and as the 1:17:12.760 --> 1:17:16.400 squares were revealed to be indefensible, they too were replaced 1:17:16.400 --> 1:17:20.160 by running fights with the police. But this placed the 1:17:20.160 --> 1:17:24.000 new revolutionaries in a dangerous bind without the leverage against 1:17:24.000 --> 1:17:26.719 the state the classical workers movement's control over the workplace, 1:17:26.800 --> 1:17:30.200 provided they lack the ability to bring down a government 1:17:30.320 --> 1:17:33.840 firmly committed to fighting it out. Even the attempts over 1:17:33.880 --> 1:17:36.840 the last five or six years to carry out general 1:17:36.880 --> 1:17:40.839 strikes in Peru, in France, Hong Kong and Sudan were 1:17:41.000 --> 1:17:44.439 as Mela Testa predicted in the early twenties, easily defeated 1:17:44.479 --> 1:17:48.759 without the accompanying factory occupations, but with current labor conditions 1:17:48.800 --> 1:17:52.760 exceedingly unlikely to produce another wave of factory occupations. The 1:17:52.800 --> 1:17:55.640 way forward for any political movement that seeks to reintroduce 1:17:55.680 --> 1:18:01.000 democracy into the economic sphere is unclear. Perhaps that is 1:18:01.040 --> 1:18:04.679 the greatest legacy of tienemen The workers who assembled outside 1:18:04.720 --> 1:18:08.160 Tieneman Square had already abandoned their factories. For all that 1:18:08.200 --> 1:18:11.400 they spoke the language of the old workers movement, they 1:18:11.439 --> 1:18:15.559 stood and fought and died like we do in the streets. 1:18:16.439 --> 1:18:18.599 They were the bridge between the world of the workers 1:18:18.600 --> 1:18:21.599 movements and the world we live in today, and thus 1:18:21.720 --> 1:18:25.879 faced the same revolutionary crisis we face today, the crisis 1:18:25.880 --> 1:18:30.360 of Papua and Palestine, of Columbia and Iran, of Mien 1:18:30.439 --> 1:18:34.440 Maar in Hong Kong, of victory just beyond the horizon 1:18:34.840 --> 1:18:39.920 that nevertheless cannot yet be grasped. The workers of tienemen I, suspect, 1:18:40.479 --> 1:18:43.639 have no answers to give us now, But expecting answers 1:18:43.680 --> 1:18:46.439 from the dead is demanding too much of those past 1:18:46.479 --> 1:18:50.680 and present who died fighting for liberation. All we can 1:18:50.720 --> 1:18:53.840 do now is find our own way, and, with the 1:18:53.960 --> 1:18:56.759 names of the dead on our lips, build the world 1:18:57.280 --> 1:18:58.200 they died fighting for. 1:19:21.479 --> 1:19:25.280 Welcome to it could happen here the only podcast where 1:19:25.320 --> 1:19:28.160 anti British discrimination is a way of life? 1:19:28.680 --> 1:19:29.519 James, are we. 1:19:29.520 --> 1:19:31.800 Allowed to say that? Do you remember the training? I 1:19:31.800 --> 1:19:33.960 haven't done yet. 1:19:34.360 --> 1:19:37.040 I was giving that training my full attention throughout the 1:19:37.120 --> 1:19:39.360 duration of the video. Every single time I've watched It's 1:19:39.400 --> 1:19:42.240 good various employees for the last half decade or so, 1:19:43.200 --> 1:19:45.520 there was no there was no section on anti British discrimination. 1:19:45.920 --> 1:19:51.280 Yet again, another example victimized. 1:19:51.720 --> 1:19:53.599 Last time I took that training, there was a straight 1:19:53.680 --> 1:19:55.920 up anti Asian racism in it that they didn't address 1:19:55.920 --> 1:19:57.960 at all. So I'm assuming if that's okay, then anti 1:19:57.960 --> 1:20:01.600 British racism was fine, like some shit in those videos. 1:20:01.200 --> 1:20:04.720 Which is wild. Okay, there you go. I think that's 1:20:04.720 --> 1:20:06.800 a lady who's literally called Karen and they do her 1:20:06.840 --> 1:20:10.880 wrong in the in the in the video. See I am. 1:20:10.960 --> 1:20:14.479 I am definitely pro British discrimination. But you do get 1:20:14.520 --> 1:20:18.840 a point for having Peter O'Toole, so at least it's 1:20:18.880 --> 1:20:21.799 it's it's not all the way because the o'tool factor 1:20:22.520 --> 1:20:25.920 keeps you from the full might of my wrath frankly 1:20:26.720 --> 1:20:27.240 the greatest. 1:20:27.280 --> 1:20:29.080 There we go. Yeah, I'm sure that's the case. 1:20:29.720 --> 1:20:31.920 I'm Garson Davis and joined by Mia Wong, James Stub 1:20:32.040 --> 1:20:35.680 and Robert Evans. This episode we are talking about babies. 1:20:36.040 --> 1:20:36.960 Should there be more? 1:20:37.479 --> 1:20:40.479 Yeah? Hm, we're on a pro natalist kick. 1:20:40.520 --> 1:20:42.960 We're going to have that off putting couple who look 1:20:43.080 --> 1:20:47.280 like vampires but like not any of the good kinds 1:20:47.439 --> 1:20:48.080 on the show. 1:20:48.640 --> 1:20:51.559 Very excited to have those people on. They seem nice. 1:20:51.920 --> 1:20:54.560 But before we do that, we all decided maybe we 1:20:54.600 --> 1:20:58.559 should talk about other pro natalist policies in world history 1:20:58.600 --> 1:21:00.559 and how well they've worked generally. 1:21:01.280 --> 1:21:05.360 We're going to start by talking about what the US 1:21:05.840 --> 1:21:09.799 policy might be, or that the people proposing US policy, 1:21:10.600 --> 1:21:15.679 and then we will discuss how those policies went historically. Yeah, 1:21:16.280 --> 1:21:20.599 so like to start with Trumps. Besides one executive order 1:21:20.640 --> 1:21:24.600 in February supporting IVF, the new administration has yet to 1:21:24.880 --> 1:21:29.280 tackle pro natalist concerns on the policy front, but a 1:21:29.320 --> 1:21:32.760 collection of lobbyists, activists, and influencers are vying for the 1:21:32.760 --> 1:21:36.040 president's ear while proposing a multitude of plans to grow 1:21:36.080 --> 1:21:41.520 the number of heterosexual marriages and incentivize childbirth. The pronatalists 1:21:41.600 --> 1:21:44.519 certainly think that the new administration is at the very 1:21:44.600 --> 1:21:48.959 least ideologically sympathetic, if not in cahoots with their agenda. 1:21:49.520 --> 1:21:52.320 The main inns on the pronatalist front have come from 1:21:52.640 --> 1:21:56.400 the Peter Thiel tech right wing of the White House Right. 1:21:56.439 --> 1:22:00.400 This is like JD. Vance and previously Elon Musk yep. 1:22:00.920 --> 1:22:03.479 Musk has been doom posting for years about how a 1:22:03.560 --> 1:22:06.000 drop in fertility rates could be leading to a large 1:22:06.040 --> 1:22:09.800 scale population collapse, and at an anti abortion rally this 1:22:09.800 --> 1:22:13.200 past January, Vance addressed the crowd saying quote, I want 1:22:13.280 --> 1:22:16.080 more babies in the United States of America. I want 1:22:16.200 --> 1:22:19.400 more happy children in our country, and I want beautiful 1:22:19.479 --> 1:22:21.519 young men and women who are eager to welcome them 1:22:21.520 --> 1:22:24.000 into the world and eager to raise them. 1:22:24.080 --> 1:22:26.080 Yeah, and you got to like whatever you're listening to 1:22:26.120 --> 1:22:28.120 one of these things. You got to like have a 1:22:28.280 --> 1:22:31.960 little parenthesis anytime anytime someone says baby, there's a little 1:22:31.960 --> 1:22:36.840 parentheses there that says white this is this is real 1:22:36.920 --> 1:22:37.519 Nazi shit. 1:22:37.680 --> 1:22:40.360 Like a lot of the stuff that is certainly like 1:22:40.680 --> 1:22:44.280 based on like like great replacement rhetoric that the alt right, 1:22:44.400 --> 1:22:48.040 like Trojan Horst and like pushed forward in like twenty eighteen, 1:22:48.479 --> 1:22:52.639 which is now so widely normalized thanks to. I mean, really, 1:22:52.720 --> 1:22:55.920 Musk has done a lot of work in normalizing great 1:22:55.960 --> 1:22:56.679 replacement stuff. 1:22:56.760 --> 1:23:00.760 Yeah, Tucker calls into Carlson of course, well, and mus 1:23:01.000 --> 1:23:03.400 Musk's family goes into this, right, like this is the 1:23:03.479 --> 1:23:06.360 kind of thing like his grandparents where were involved in, 1:23:06.479 --> 1:23:08.240 Like it was a little bit less of like the 1:23:08.320 --> 1:23:12.360 standard great replacement shit and a little more like focused 1:23:12.400 --> 1:23:14.400 on like we need to be breeding high IQ white 1:23:14.439 --> 1:23:15.120 people together. 1:23:15.240 --> 1:23:17.240 Yeah, you change, but like that that is that is 1:23:17.280 --> 1:23:19.720 what he inherits. He comes by it, honestly, I guess 1:23:19.760 --> 1:23:20.760 you could say. 1:23:21.040 --> 1:23:24.040 Well, and oftentimes pinatal stretoric is also tied in with 1:23:24.120 --> 1:23:28.040 like the tradwife and like loss of traditional family structure 1:23:28.120 --> 1:23:28.639 type stuff. 1:23:28.720 --> 1:23:28.880 Right. 1:23:29.400 --> 1:23:32.360 Vance has laid blame at childless cat ladies and referred 1:23:32.400 --> 1:23:36.160 to our quote unquote broken culture that tax masculinity and 1:23:36.200 --> 1:23:38.759 turns our nation's youth into androgynous idiots. 1:23:38.800 --> 1:23:40.759 Hey shout out. Yeah. 1:23:40.840 --> 1:23:43.839 I've also started referring to women with kids as catless 1:23:43.920 --> 1:23:45.680 child ladies as a result. 1:23:45.360 --> 1:23:45.559 Of this. 1:23:47.680 --> 1:23:51.520 Reactions, I don't know people very negatively. 1:23:57.360 --> 1:23:59.759 A declining birth rate has also been attributed to women 1:23:59.800 --> 1:24:02.880 in the workplace who are not getting married and raising 1:24:03.000 --> 1:24:03.960 kids at home. 1:24:03.800 --> 1:24:05.639 From an early enough age. 1:24:06.000 --> 1:24:08.160 Yeah, and some of this writer are cavs rubbed off 1:24:08.160 --> 1:24:10.840 on Trump right, and Trump at Seapack in twenty twenty three, 1:24:10.880 --> 1:24:13.600 he said, quote, we will support baby booms, and we 1:24:13.640 --> 1:24:16.719 will support baby bonuses for a new baby boom. 1:24:17.040 --> 1:24:19.200 I want a baby boom. Cool. 1:24:19.840 --> 1:24:23.559 Trump has floated a five thousand dollars cash quote unquote 1:24:23.600 --> 1:24:27.320 baby bonus to American mothers after delivering a baby, calling 1:24:27.320 --> 1:24:29.080 this proposal a good idea. 1:24:29.160 --> 1:24:32.120 Well, Garrison, that's almost three months at a preschool. 1:24:32.120 --> 1:24:33.240 Oh yeah, I'm sure that's enough. 1:24:33.280 --> 1:24:35.280 Not quite three months at a lot of pre schools, like, 1:24:35.320 --> 1:24:38.920 not even great pre schools. It's very preschools unbelievably expensive. 1:24:39.360 --> 1:24:42.479 The actual cause, like of a declining birth rate, is 1:24:42.560 --> 1:24:45.439 due to skyrocketing cost of living, so people aren't financially 1:24:45.439 --> 1:24:47.880 stable to have kids in their early twenties anymore, so 1:24:47.920 --> 1:24:49.519 instead they're waiting until their thirties. 1:24:49.800 --> 1:24:50.960 That's part of it at least. 1:24:51.000 --> 1:24:53.400 Yes, if you want people to have kids more, you 1:24:53.400 --> 1:24:56.360 should make the world more affordable. And a five thousand 1:24:56.360 --> 1:24:58.479 dollars baby bonus doesn't actually solve the key issues that 1:24:58.520 --> 1:25:01.120 would cause people to be a worried about, you know, 1:25:01.160 --> 1:25:02.800 trying to like get buried and have kids at a 1:25:02.840 --> 1:25:05.000 young age in a world where that seems kind of 1:25:05.040 --> 1:25:09.920 like unfathomably expensive. Now, luckily, Trump does have a few 1:25:09.960 --> 1:25:13.880 other ways of sorting of sorting out this problem. The 1:25:14.320 --> 1:25:17.639 new big, beautiful budget bill that recently passed the House 1:25:17.960 --> 1:25:22.080 will create quote unquote Mega savings accounts for new kids. 1:25:22.720 --> 1:25:27.120 And here Mega stands for money accounts for growth and 1:25:27.360 --> 1:25:30.320 in for growth and advancement. 1:25:31.080 --> 1:25:33.680 Just fucking stop stop it. 1:25:34.479 --> 1:25:37.439 So when parents are guardians open a new Mega savings 1:25:37.479 --> 1:25:40.360 account for their kids, the federal government will contribute one 1:25:40.600 --> 1:25:44.719 thousand dollars for babies born between January first, twenty twenty 1:25:44.720 --> 1:25:47.920 four and December thirty first, twenty twenty eight. 1:25:48.520 --> 1:25:53.760 That that'll help, great, great. I believe California also does it. Yeah, 1:25:53.800 --> 1:25:57.880 California have something called the California Child Saving Accounts Program, 1:25:57.960 --> 1:26:01.519 which already gives children up to one thousand dollars. And 1:26:01.520 --> 1:26:03.559 I think it's like a college savings account from what 1:26:03.600 --> 1:26:06.040 I understand, Yeah, that's pretty much what this is. 1:26:06.080 --> 1:26:09.200 Although specifically in the for the Magia account, it also 1:26:09.280 --> 1:26:11.559 lists home ownership. Oh cool, because this is like a 1:26:11.560 --> 1:26:14.519 big this is a big part of this pronatalist thing 1:26:14.600 --> 1:26:17.679 is you need to own a home, getting a straight marriage, 1:26:17.840 --> 1:26:19.519 start having kids in your early twenty. 1:26:19.439 --> 1:26:22.400 Yeah, sure, make Instagram videos of yourself chopping would badly 1:26:22.680 --> 1:26:24.959 like we understand. Yeah. Yeah. 1:26:25.000 --> 1:26:27.920 The big beautiful bludget bill also prohibits Medicare funds. We're 1:26:27.920 --> 1:26:28.719 going to plan parent. 1:26:28.640 --> 1:26:31.759 Hut great yeah, let me tell you. One thousand American dollars, 1:26:31.800 --> 1:26:34.960 even with compounding interest, isn't going to do shit to 1:26:35.040 --> 1:26:38.040 buy you a home anywhere in the United States. 1:26:38.640 --> 1:26:42.479 Now, the Heritage Foundation's Devasit Center for Life, Religion, and 1:26:42.520 --> 1:26:46.920 Family have pushed for a policy that exponentially increases the 1:26:47.000 --> 1:26:51.000 child tax credit for each additional child a married couple has. 1:26:51.880 --> 1:26:54.000 This is a little bit similar to a policy proposed 1:26:54.000 --> 1:26:57.800 in twenty twenty three by Republican Representative Brian Slayton of Texas, 1:26:58.160 --> 1:27:03.280 who proposed increasing proper tax cuts for married heterosexual couples 1:27:03.320 --> 1:27:06.160 who have never been divorced and have four or more 1:27:06.280 --> 1:27:08.560 children starting after marriage. 1:27:08.720 --> 1:27:11.080 So there's a lot of caveats. 1:27:10.520 --> 1:27:15.479 There, Jesus Christy, Yeah, okay, sure, yeah, no, this is 1:27:15.520 --> 1:27:16.840 are we taking issue with this? 1:27:17.880 --> 1:27:20.040 That is some Yeah, this is part of my British 1:27:20.080 --> 1:27:23.479 charity trade. We developed our own religion so that dudes 1:27:23.520 --> 1:27:26.400 could get divorced. It is it is. Yeah, it is 1:27:26.400 --> 1:27:27.920 a bill of rights for British guys. 1:27:28.240 --> 1:27:30.320 Obviously a lot of a lot of caveats in there 1:27:30.360 --> 1:27:33.719 so that you can have your little like tread Christian family. 1:27:34.200 --> 1:27:36.920 But four kids would equal a forty percent cut. Ten 1:27:37.000 --> 1:27:39.800 kids would equal no property taxes at all. 1:27:40.200 --> 1:27:42.559 Well, I mean, shit, that's hard to argue with. 1:27:42.840 --> 1:27:45.400 Yeah, this is property tax. You also have to own 1:27:45.400 --> 1:27:47.639 the property to begin with to be paying property tax. 1:27:47.760 --> 1:27:49.760 Yeah, all of these all these people want you to 1:27:49.800 --> 1:27:51.840 be like homeowners with a stay at home life. 1:27:52.200 --> 1:27:54.000 Is like, this is what they want, but they don't 1:27:54.000 --> 1:27:57.280 want to actually do things to meaningfully make home ownership successible. 1:27:57.360 --> 1:27:59.599 No, this is just like self selecting for like well 1:27:59.640 --> 1:28:01.200 off white Christians, right. 1:28:01.120 --> 1:28:02.240 Like yeah, yeah, hundred percent. 1:28:02.439 --> 1:28:05.599 Yeah, Slaton said in a statement quote, with this bill, 1:28:05.720 --> 1:28:09.080 Texas will start saying to couples, get married, stay married, 1:28:09.479 --> 1:28:12.600 and be fruitful and multiply unquote. 1:28:12.439 --> 1:28:14.599 For fuck's sake, it's a disaster. 1:28:14.920 --> 1:28:16.320 And yeah, I mean and like a lot of this 1:28:16.320 --> 1:28:18.479 stuff is too is it's there. This is their sort 1:28:18.479 --> 1:28:21.920 of flailing reaction to like one of the things that 1:28:21.960 --> 1:28:25.040 actually drives like declining birthrates, which is not having teen 1:28:25.120 --> 1:28:30.120 pregnancies like significantly decreases birthrates because it turns out they're like, oh, yeah, right. 1:28:30.120 --> 1:28:32.880 It turns out a huge part of like white birthrate 1:28:33.000 --> 1:28:37.040 is so high is just direct social coercion. And if 1:28:37.080 --> 1:28:40.040 you stop having that or like you know, the amount 1:28:40.080 --> 1:28:43.880 of the coercion decreases, then yeah, like fucking birthrates are 1:28:43.880 --> 1:28:46.439 gonna to decline because women aren't being forced to have babies 1:28:46.960 --> 1:28:48.840 like and you know, and so they're trying to do 1:28:48.880 --> 1:28:51.800 all this like you know, unhinged tinkering bullshit to sort 1:28:51.840 --> 1:28:55.120 of like deal with the fact that if you don't 1:28:55.320 --> 1:28:59.200 force people to have children as teenagers, they. 1:28:59.360 --> 1:29:03.920 Who yeah, because life they quickly realized there's things in life, 1:29:04.040 --> 1:29:07.240 like you know, drugs and stuff. 1:29:09.720 --> 1:29:11.080 Yeah, we'll go back to the club. 1:29:12.320 --> 1:29:16.759 In March, Trump called himself the quote unquote fertilization President. 1:29:17.160 --> 1:29:23.760 Oh my god, and the White House is expected to 1:29:23.800 --> 1:29:26.080 soon release a report on how to expand access and 1:29:26.120 --> 1:29:29.559 affordability of IVF. Now this is where things get sticky 1:29:31.000 --> 1:29:34.800 insert pun. There is hot debate amongst advisors and think 1:29:34.840 --> 1:29:37.639 tanks on the religious ethics of IVF. 1:29:37.840 --> 1:29:39.200 Right, there's no real. 1:29:39.000 --> 1:29:42.639 Consensus among the pronatals voices who are lobbying Trump. Yeah, 1:29:42.960 --> 1:29:45.040 this sort of breaks down into like the new tech 1:29:45.120 --> 1:29:49.560 right versus the more religious Christian family sector of conservatism, 1:29:49.800 --> 1:29:51.680 and Vance is kind of caught in the middle of this, 1:29:52.240 --> 1:29:57.240 but these groups may end up compromising to form an alliance. Now, Heritage, 1:29:57.320 --> 1:30:01.200 the Heritage Fundation recommends a program use government funds for 1:30:01.400 --> 1:30:05.479 education that promotes quote unquote natural fertility, teaching women how 1:30:05.520 --> 1:30:08.800 to track their mental cycles using charting courses to both 1:30:08.960 --> 1:30:13.400 help get pregnant and avoid using birth control. They propose 1:30:13.479 --> 1:30:17.719 that food, nutrition, and lifestyle changes could improve quote unquote 1:30:17.840 --> 1:30:23.160 natural conception. Instead of using assisted reproductive technologies, Heritage proposed 1:30:23.160 --> 1:30:26.559 to something that they call restorative reproductive medicine as a 1:30:26.600 --> 1:30:31.280 holistic approach to treating infertility through quote unquote horn balancing, 1:30:31.479 --> 1:30:36.720 dieting and nutritional adjustments, environmental changes, and surgery unquote. 1:30:36.920 --> 1:30:40.719 Yeah, you just need some fucking uh some of those 1:30:40.800 --> 1:30:43.960 some of those baby teething pills Highlands made that kill babies. 1:30:44.000 --> 1:30:46.200 That's what you get to take. It's a holistic approach 1:30:46.240 --> 1:30:48.120 to you get some raw milk, put a bunch of 1:30:48.200 --> 1:30:51.320 random chemicals and lead in your body from an unregulated 1:30:51.360 --> 1:30:52.280 supplement company. 1:30:52.640 --> 1:30:56.480 Heritage itself critiques IVF as failing to address the underlying 1:30:56.479 --> 1:30:59.640 causes of infertility as well as you know, out of 1:30:59.640 --> 1:31:04.280 concern for embryo personhood rights for fuck sake, So they 1:31:04.320 --> 1:31:08.439 advocate for embryo adoption and have proposed legislation to make 1:31:08.439 --> 1:31:10.840 the production of embryo spares. 1:31:10.520 --> 1:31:12.400 Illegal embryo adoption. 1:31:13.280 --> 1:31:15.839 They believe that these are like full like people. 1:31:18.200 --> 1:31:21.439 Now on the other side of the you know, pro natalist, right, 1:31:21.560 --> 1:31:24.559 you have people like the vampire couple that Robert mentioned. 1:31:25.280 --> 1:31:30.280 Simone Collins, a pro natalist activist and failed Pennsylvania congressional candidate. 1:31:30.600 --> 1:31:32.800 She could still pull it off. Stay in line if 1:31:32.800 --> 1:31:33.920 your vote hasn't been counted. 1:31:33.960 --> 1:31:37.280 People her and her husband are self described quote unquote 1:31:37.439 --> 1:31:40.040 techno Puritans, and she. 1:31:40.120 --> 1:31:42.559 Is the talking super shit. 1:31:44.000 --> 1:31:45.000 Like what. 1:31:47.920 --> 1:31:50.200 God put these people on a boat and send it 1:31:50.200 --> 1:31:52.880 across the Atlantic, Like, can they get scurvy? Have they 1:31:52.920 --> 1:31:54.200 already got? They look a little bit like they may 1:31:54.240 --> 1:31:56.400 already have scurvy. To be fair, they do look like 1:31:56.439 --> 1:31:59.280 they have scurvy. Constantly they deprive them of lime juice 1:31:59.320 --> 1:32:01.080 and save the world from a fucking ground. 1:32:01.120 --> 1:32:03.599 Put him on the next starship and see how far 1:32:03.720 --> 1:32:06.040 up it gets. 1:32:07.479 --> 1:32:10.559 No, they won't get that. Let him try. I support 1:32:10.640 --> 1:32:11.400 the human spirit. 1:32:11.760 --> 1:32:14.960 Collins is also the former managing director of an exclusive 1:32:15.040 --> 1:32:19.840 Peter Teele found in social club called a Dialogue Cool Now. 1:32:19.960 --> 1:32:23.640 She has called the new administration quote unquote inherently pronatalist, 1:32:23.760 --> 1:32:27.280 and has sent several draft pronadalist executive orders to the 1:32:27.280 --> 1:32:30.080 White House, one of which would award a quote unquote 1:32:30.360 --> 1:32:34.719 National Medal of Motherhood to mothers with six or more children. 1:32:34.760 --> 1:32:37.240 This is some trijescu shit, Like, I know we're going 1:32:37.280 --> 1:32:39.440 to talk about that, but Jesus Christ. 1:32:39.200 --> 1:32:43.880 She herself wants at least seven kids. And she claims 1:32:43.920 --> 1:32:48.720 to use special technology to select embryos with high IQs, 1:32:48.920 --> 1:32:53.000 which relates back to what Robert was saying earlier. Yes, 1:32:53.160 --> 1:32:57.400 so they use IVF to specifically select embryos that they 1:32:57.439 --> 1:33:01.679 think are like naturally predisposed have more desirable traits, including 1:33:01.760 --> 1:33:04.960 high IQs. They have not discussed the exact method, That's 1:33:05.000 --> 1:33:06.800 why it's called special technology. 1:33:07.080 --> 1:33:09.240 They're looking for one with a big head or something, 1:33:09.920 --> 1:33:11.479 So you don't know. I guess I'm not even that 1:33:11.560 --> 1:33:13.040 far along the IVF. 1:33:13.320 --> 1:33:15.599 So that's always pretty fucked up and then I guess finally, 1:33:15.640 --> 1:33:18.320 one of the few things that actually has happened in 1:33:18.600 --> 1:33:23.080 advancement of this ideology was way back like in February, 1:33:23.560 --> 1:33:26.920 Trump's Transportation secretary, Sean Duffy, who is a father of 1:33:27.000 --> 1:33:30.200 nine and has ten siblings, sent out a memo directing 1:33:30.240 --> 1:33:34.320 his staff to prioritize transportation funds to quote give preference 1:33:34.360 --> 1:33:37.000 to communities with marriage and birth rates higher than the 1:33:37.080 --> 1:33:40.519 national average unquote, which would, in ef fact, mean less 1:33:40.520 --> 1:33:43.639 money for urban public transit and instead send it towards 1:33:43.680 --> 1:33:45.920 like wealthier, rural, white conservative areas. 1:33:46.240 --> 1:33:50.799 Yeah, I'd imagine Latino communities have a higher marriage traits 1:33:50.960 --> 1:33:54.680 at least than like the national average. Yeah, I'm not 1:33:54.680 --> 1:33:55.000 sure if. 1:33:54.920 --> 1:33:57.519 Sean Duffy really wants his employees to select for that. 1:33:57.479 --> 1:33:59.960 Though, No, neither of I that's kind That's what I'm meant, 1:34:00.000 --> 1:34:02.639 That's what I'm That's what I'm wondering for. Yeah, Samuel 1:34:02.720 --> 1:34:05.120 Huntington thinks they have higher birth rates, right, Like that's 1:34:05.120 --> 1:34:05.759 his whole stick. 1:34:06.080 --> 1:34:08.280 If you look at the full memo, I think this 1:34:08.360 --> 1:34:10.080 is this is just like a dog whistle for like 1:34:10.080 --> 1:34:13.360 white Christians, like that is that is really what he's 1:34:13.400 --> 1:34:14.599 saying sick. 1:34:15.720 --> 1:34:18.920 Anyway, that is what I have for the current the 1:34:18.960 --> 1:34:20.040 current peroneals policies. 1:34:20.040 --> 1:34:22.360 We should go on and ad break and then return 1:34:22.479 --> 1:34:26.640 to learn the historical implications of pro natalist policies. 1:34:26.920 --> 1:34:27.360 M hmm. 1:34:37.920 --> 1:34:41.120 All right, we are back and we are spinning our globe, 1:34:41.680 --> 1:34:45.799 our big ball of pro natalism, and it is slowing 1:34:45.840 --> 1:34:49.840 down and is landed on Japan, where mir is going 1:34:49.920 --> 1:34:51.920 to explain pronatalist policy. 1:34:53.280 --> 1:34:54.559 Yeah, and I guess. 1:34:54.400 --> 1:34:56.760 I want to open on a kind of global thing 1:34:56.800 --> 1:34:59.720 which is a concern over like birth rates, for like 1:34:59.760 --> 1:35:01.840 fat just is a really old thing. I mean, it 1:35:01.880 --> 1:35:04.400 predates fascism. Like this is like like if you go 1:35:04.439 --> 1:35:07.519 to like the eighteen seventies, every single person is complaining 1:35:07.560 --> 1:35:09.720 about like, oh my god, the birth rate is the right. Well, 1:35:09.760 --> 1:35:11.680 the white race keeps declining and we're gonna get like 1:35:11.760 --> 1:35:14.960 overwhelmed by the Asiatic Chords. And then you go to 1:35:15.040 --> 1:35:18.840 like the Asiatic Chords and it's like Japan has been 1:35:18.880 --> 1:35:22.960 having the same fucking panic for literally so long. Like 1:35:23.040 --> 1:35:26.599 I cannot emphasize enough. You can just go back through 1:35:26.600 --> 1:35:29.760 newspaper archives and you just it's you're literally reading the 1:35:29.760 --> 1:35:31.920 same article over and over and over again, going back 1:35:32.000 --> 1:35:34.320 just decades and decades and decades, So like the first 1:35:34.360 --> 1:35:37.599 big modern freak out about birth rates is in like 1:35:37.720 --> 1:35:42.280 nineteen eighty seven. Yeah, they have the first big like 1:35:42.760 --> 1:35:43.840 japan birth rate. 1:35:43.720 --> 1:35:44.760 Declining freak out. 1:35:45.000 --> 1:35:47.240 This has been happening longer than like most of the 1:35:47.240 --> 1:35:48.400 people here have been alive. 1:35:48.600 --> 1:35:51.479 I can remember from like my child. It's just been like, oh, 1:35:52.400 --> 1:35:54.000 they're panicking about their birthrates again. 1:35:54.120 --> 1:35:57.080 Yeah, So like the running thing with Japanese politics. So 1:35:57.080 --> 1:36:00.759 we're roughly doing these in order of life like most 1:36:00.840 --> 1:36:04.720 to least hinged in terms of like in terms of 1:36:04.720 --> 1:36:08.200 these like natalist policies, Japan I think has an interesting 1:36:08.240 --> 1:36:11.040 series of sort of political contradictions in their like kind 1:36:11.040 --> 1:36:14.160 of pro natalist Paul Walls if they have, they have 1:36:14.200 --> 1:36:17.520 political contradictions in their pro natalist politics and political contradictions 1:36:17.560 --> 1:36:21.600 in their conservative faction. Because Japan is basically like a 1:36:21.640 --> 1:36:25.320 one party liberal democratic state. Liberal Democratic Party is the 1:36:25.320 --> 1:36:28.280 one party. This is a party established by a World 1:36:28.280 --> 1:36:31.080 War two Nazi, but that means that they run all 1:36:31.120 --> 1:36:34.000 of politics, so like every political factor effectively runs through them. 1:36:34.200 --> 1:36:38.599 They're early attempts in like the nineties are focused on 1:36:38.680 --> 1:36:42.559 the deregulation of daycare jobs. So basically their plan is 1:36:42.600 --> 1:36:44.280 like in the ninety two thousands, they're like, Okay, we're 1:36:44.320 --> 1:36:47.479 going to like deregulate the childcare industry so that we 1:36:47.560 --> 1:36:50.960 can have more affordable child There'll be more childcare jobs 1:36:50.960 --> 1:36:53.519 so people can pay for childcare. This is how we're 1:36:53.520 --> 1:36:55.800 going to promote this. And this is sort of one 1:36:55.800 --> 1:36:58.640 of the first places you see this huge intra intraclass 1:36:58.680 --> 1:37:01.640 conflict between the peer social conservatives who want to just 1:37:01.680 --> 1:37:04.440 like send every woman back to the household to raise children, 1:37:04.600 --> 1:37:07.240 and the business people who are like, no, you can't 1:37:07.320 --> 1:37:09.960 do that. We need to exploit these women's labor to 1:37:10.040 --> 1:37:14.320 like make money. And so the fight that starts to 1:37:14.360 --> 1:37:17.200 break out is this fight between like paying for childcare 1:37:17.280 --> 1:37:21.280 leave versus like paying for daycare. So originally that their 1:37:21.320 --> 1:37:22.600 plan is like, okay, so we're going to do the 1:37:22.640 --> 1:37:23.240 daycare stuff. 1:37:23.240 --> 1:37:23.760 That doesn't work. 1:37:23.800 --> 1:37:25.679 Like, none of these things they're going to do does 1:37:25.800 --> 1:37:26.799 jack shit, right. 1:37:26.840 --> 1:37:30.160 Like that's going to be a through line here. Yeah, yeah, 1:37:30.200 --> 1:37:31.280 Like no, none of that stuff works. 1:37:31.360 --> 1:37:32.920 And so like like shinzo Abe, I think is the 1:37:32.920 --> 1:37:34.760 most famous person who spends much of time trying to 1:37:34.760 --> 1:37:37.559 deal with this and like again. So they have started 1:37:37.560 --> 1:37:39.840 worrying about this in nineteen eighty seven. It is now 1:37:39.880 --> 1:37:45.960 twenty thirteen. The birth rate keeps declining recipitously. Shinzawabey rest 1:37:46.000 --> 1:37:48.400 and piss you fascist bastard is still trying to like 1:37:49.000 --> 1:37:52.160 cook something. Right, I'm gonna read this quote from the 1:37:52.840 --> 1:37:56.759 Archives of Clinical Pediatrics shortly after the formation of Abbe's 1:37:56.760 --> 1:38:00.240 second cabinet, the quote. Task Force for Overcoming Popular Relation 1:38:00.360 --> 1:38:04.040 Decline was established in twenty thirteen, introducing three key strategies, 1:38:04.360 --> 1:38:08.400 supporting child rearing, reforming work styles, and promoting marriage, pregnancy 1:38:08.439 --> 1:38:11.240 and childbirth. So you can do these are going to 1:38:11.240 --> 1:38:14.439 become sort of like the three pillars of Japanese pro 1:38:14.560 --> 1:38:17.760 natalist policy, right. A lot of it is focused on 1:38:18.360 --> 1:38:21.519 this sort of social push stuff to like promote the 1:38:21.560 --> 1:38:26.120 traditional family and promote marriage, and this hasn't ever really 1:38:26.439 --> 1:38:31.439 worked for this. Supporting child rearing is one that is 1:38:31.479 --> 1:38:34.080 going to get a lot of attention in subsequent administrations. 1:38:34.080 --> 1:38:36.320 There's a lot of attempts to reduce, like to reduce 1:38:36.320 --> 1:38:39.240 the cost of child rearing, where we're going to see 1:38:39.240 --> 1:38:43.800 them try like thirty five thousand different proposals to do this, 1:38:44.720 --> 1:38:50.680 the one that's actually interesting is reforming work styles. So, like, 1:38:50.720 --> 1:38:54.280 part of the problem here is that, you know, everyone 1:38:54.400 --> 1:38:59.320 in Japan is working a just genuinely unhinged amount unbelievably 1:38:59.360 --> 1:39:01.479 staggering over work, right. I mean, it's one of these 1:39:01.479 --> 1:39:03.519 things that's like a persistent social crisis. It's that there's 1:39:03.520 --> 1:39:07.000 a persistent sort of suicide crisis because of how long 1:39:07.080 --> 1:39:10.280 everyone is working all the time. So Shinto Abbe's plan 1:39:10.439 --> 1:39:13.320 for this was to put into place a soft cap 1:39:13.800 --> 1:39:16.679 of you can only work one hundred hours a month 1:39:16.680 --> 1:39:20.920 of overtime. Now, this doesn't do shit, right, Like one 1:39:21.000 --> 1:39:24.840 hundred hours a month of overtime is enough to kill you, right, like, 1:39:25.240 --> 1:39:27.479 you know, especially when like your regular hours are this long. 1:39:27.960 --> 1:39:30.679 But this is again this problem that he's having, which 1:39:30.680 --> 1:39:35.040 is that like, okay, so yes, you probably could maybe 1:39:35.439 --> 1:39:38.200 like people maybe would have more children if you weren't 1:39:38.280 --> 1:39:40.799 working literally all the time and you weren't just like being. 1:39:40.680 --> 1:39:41.400 Worked to death. 1:39:42.240 --> 1:39:45.559 But that's really bad for Japanese business. And like quote 1:39:45.600 --> 1:39:47.640 unquote Abbey NoMix, which is like Abe sort of you 1:39:47.640 --> 1:39:51.200 know economic plan like relies on maintaining this extremely high 1:39:51.240 --> 1:39:54.280 level of labor hours from everyone in the entire population. 1:39:54.880 --> 1:39:57.360 And it's also based on putting more women into the 1:39:57.360 --> 1:40:00.160 workforce to expand the size of the workforce, to know, 1:40:00.200 --> 1:40:02.280 extract more hours so they can all these people can 1:40:02.320 --> 1:40:05.840 make more money. Right. They were also supposed to do 1:40:06.080 --> 1:40:09.479 free preschool for all children, and this just like didn't happen, 1:40:09.760 --> 1:40:11.519 which over and over again they're like, we're gonna do 1:40:11.640 --> 1:40:14.799 these kind of like these these kind of like okay, 1:40:14.840 --> 1:40:17.360 we'll give we'll give you some kind of welfare state bullshit, 1:40:17.439 --> 1:40:19.920 but only in order to like have kids, and it 1:40:20.000 --> 1:40:23.360 just doesn't happen. And so you know, this is one 1:40:23.400 --> 1:40:25.600 of Abe's big initiatives. But by the time he's like 1:40:25.640 --> 1:40:29.320 assassinated in twenty twenty two, he what he was uh 1:40:29.960 --> 1:40:33.920 bye by time his political coalition was finally detonated, bye 1:40:34.160 --> 1:40:37.400 by one by one guy with an electric plunderbus. 1:40:39.280 --> 1:40:40.880 My favorite politics. 1:40:43.400 --> 1:40:46.120 Oh god, it's so good. It's so good. We have 1:40:46.160 --> 1:40:47.880 covered this extensively on the show. If you want to 1:40:47.920 --> 1:40:51.280 hear the happiest I've ever been during an episode, including 1:40:51.320 --> 1:40:54.080 the day after Kissinger died, go find the episode I 1:40:54.120 --> 1:40:55.400 did right after shinz a wha. 1:40:55.520 --> 1:40:56.280 It was assassinated. 1:40:56.520 --> 1:40:59.160 The Holy Trinity of Great days on the internet. Is 1:40:59.240 --> 1:41:02.200 that big stuck boat and the submarine that killed all 1:41:02.240 --> 1:41:02.679 those bills? 1:41:02.840 --> 1:41:06.920 Yes, oh it was amazing. Yeah, people said Biden gave 1:41:07.000 --> 1:41:13.519 us nothing. Bang is on the timeline. Mm hmmm, here 1:41:13.600 --> 1:41:13.840 you go. 1:41:14.720 --> 1:41:18.759 So all right, shinzowape successor is a guy named Fumio 1:41:18.880 --> 1:41:24.360 Kishita who lasts for a little bit, and Kishida every 1:41:24.400 --> 1:41:27.400 single Japanese government announces that they're going to spend like 1:41:27.960 --> 1:41:31.760 somewhere between twenty and fifteen and twenty billion dollars on 1:41:32.200 --> 1:41:36.840 pronatalist policies and mostly doesn't happen, but Kishita promises that 1:41:36.880 --> 1:41:38.760 he is going to spend twenty four and a half 1:41:38.880 --> 1:41:42.160 billion dollars. A lot of this money is going to 1:41:42.200 --> 1:41:46.439 be just straight up like child allowance. So Japan has 1:41:46.439 --> 1:41:47.880 the system that they've been you know, they've been sort 1:41:47.880 --> 1:41:49.519 of implementing over the course of like all of these 1:41:49.520 --> 1:41:51.640 fucking reforms, which is just like all right, we're just 1:41:51.680 --> 1:41:55.719 gonna like hand you cash. It's still not enough money 1:41:55.760 --> 1:41:58.280 to like substantively change stuff. But there's a lot of 1:41:58.280 --> 1:42:02.000 different kinds of cash policies. They have cash transfer policies 1:42:02.040 --> 1:42:04.120 that are just straight up like okay, here, you had 1:42:04.160 --> 1:42:06.320 a baby we're gonna give you this amount per month. 1:42:06.320 --> 1:42:09.439 I think it's like ten to fifteen thousand yen which 1:42:09.520 --> 1:42:12.599 hold on, yeah, so it's like like seventy dollars a month, 1:42:12.720 --> 1:42:18.920 which is like not. Yeah, they are trying to expense 1:42:18.960 --> 1:42:21.040 date research on. They're supposed to have these like counselors 1:42:21.040 --> 1:42:23.679 that like come check in on you and like give 1:42:23.720 --> 1:42:25.960 you education and stuff. They're also supposed to just like 1:42:26.000 --> 1:42:29.840 give you a whole bunch of basically like childcare equipment 1:42:30.000 --> 1:42:33.240 stuff and make sure you're getting medical care. And that's 1:42:33.280 --> 1:42:35.640 supposed to come out to about like seven hundred dollars 1:42:35.760 --> 1:42:40.080 ish roughly. You know, this is like the big sort 1:42:40.080 --> 1:42:42.639 of plan that they're doing. And then in twenty twenty four, 1:42:43.160 --> 1:42:46.400 Kishita is replaced by like some other dipshit who you know, 1:42:46.439 --> 1:42:48.240 if he lasts more than like two years, I guess 1:42:48.240 --> 1:42:52.320 I'll tell you his name. But he's you know, attempting 1:42:52.360 --> 1:42:56.599 to go back to the sort of childcare side of it, right, 1:42:56.680 --> 1:42:59.040 which is his plan involves a bunch of things like 1:42:59.120 --> 1:43:04.000 childcare subsidy and very importantly like tuition free high school. 1:43:04.560 --> 1:43:07.040 So one of the continuous plans, if you like, if 1:43:07.040 --> 1:43:09.280 you go back to like what I was talking about 1:43:09.280 --> 1:43:11.680 with they were supposed to do free preschool for all children, right, 1:43:12.640 --> 1:43:17.360 that never got implemented except in like the last two years, 1:43:17.360 --> 1:43:20.000 like Tokyo has started doing it, just like as a city, 1:43:21.280 --> 1:43:23.040 because Tokyo is one of the places where, like you know, 1:43:23.240 --> 1:43:25.839 the birth rate has been like dropping the fastest or whatever. 1:43:26.240 --> 1:43:29.160 Sure, I imagine custter living is also really high. 1:43:29.880 --> 1:43:31.439 Yeah, cost of living is really high. And it's also 1:43:31.520 --> 1:43:34.240 just like you know, if you're working in an urban 1:43:34.640 --> 1:43:39.679 like an extremely urban city, you're working a just hideous 1:43:39.760 --> 1:43:40.519 number of hours. 1:43:40.800 --> 1:43:41.000 Right. 1:43:41.240 --> 1:43:44.000 Yeah, there's also this these supposed to be these massive 1:43:44.400 --> 1:43:48.519 like investments in providing childcare and nursing, and you can 1:43:48.640 --> 1:43:52.760 see these kind of like this this this point where 1:43:52.760 --> 1:43:55.160 they've reached this desperation point where they're trying both the 1:43:55.200 --> 1:43:58.160 sort of pro business like okay, fuck, it will pay 1:43:58.160 --> 1:44:00.839 for your child care and also we will raise taxes 1:44:00.880 --> 1:44:03.880 to like hand you money and also nursing stuff. And 1:44:03.960 --> 1:44:07.080 also they're trying to there's like giant carve outs for this, 1:44:07.120 --> 1:44:08.599 but they're they're they're trying to set up a system 1:44:08.600 --> 1:44:10.759 where you can get full pay for couples who both 1:44:10.840 --> 1:44:14.880 take parental leave at the same time. So they're trying everything, right, 1:44:14.960 --> 1:44:17.800 They're trying like paid childcare. They're trying, fuck it, we'll 1:44:17.800 --> 1:44:19.920 just pay people to leave the workforce to have children. 1:44:20.840 --> 1:44:24.479 They're trying just straight up cash transfers. They're trying paying 1:44:24.520 --> 1:44:28.880 for medical care, especially medical care for disabled kids. And 1:44:29.200 --> 1:44:32.679 none of this shit has done anything at all, right, 1:44:33.280 --> 1:44:36.360 like just just absolutely jack shit, right, and and and 1:44:36.360 --> 1:44:37.640 if you want to look at like, okay, so, like 1:44:37.680 --> 1:44:39.960 what what's sort of actually happening here? 1:44:40.800 --> 1:44:40.960 Right? 1:44:41.040 --> 1:44:42.840 A lot some of it is just like over work. 1:44:43.200 --> 1:44:45.439 Some of it is just if people who can have 1:44:45.520 --> 1:44:50.160 children have any kind of freedom and autonomy, they just 1:44:50.160 --> 1:44:52.960 decide not to. And so part of this is also 1:44:53.080 --> 1:44:54.600 just like and then this has been one of the 1:44:54.640 --> 1:44:57.680 social pushes that the conservatives have been dealing with, is 1:44:58.680 --> 1:45:02.360 they've been trying to get people to marry younger, because 1:45:02.360 --> 1:45:06.040 people are marrying later, and thus they are like, you know, 1:45:06.080 --> 1:45:09.880 they're having kids later because they're marrying later. So and 1:45:10.240 --> 1:45:15.040 this is not working at all, right, But you can 1:45:15.080 --> 1:45:17.439 look at the series of structural contradictions in their political collision, 1:45:17.439 --> 1:45:18.880 and then you can look at the fact that like, again, 1:45:19.400 --> 1:45:21.160 one of the important ideological things here is that these 1:45:21.200 --> 1:45:23.880 people hate immigrants, right, and they don't. 1:45:23.920 --> 1:45:24.839 They don't want immigrants. 1:45:24.880 --> 1:45:29.439 They want they want like Japanese babies, and so this 1:45:29.600 --> 1:45:31.040 is kind of like if you look at like, Okay, 1:45:31.040 --> 1:45:32.280 why is not of this shit working? 1:45:32.960 --> 1:45:33.160 Right? 1:45:33.439 --> 1:45:36.800 They're trying all these things to just avoid having more 1:45:36.880 --> 1:45:39.200 immigrants in the country, and none of it is fucking 1:45:39.200 --> 1:45:43.879 working at all. But you know, like, insofar as it's failing, 1:45:44.000 --> 1:45:47.320 it's mostly they're trying some limited welfare stuff and they're 1:45:47.320 --> 1:45:49.160 doing a bunch of weird ideological stuff, and it is 1:45:49.200 --> 1:45:51.160 going to get so much worse when every other country 1:45:51.200 --> 1:45:51.519 tries this. 1:45:52.520 --> 1:45:56.200 Yeah cool, Well you know what else is gonna get 1:45:56.240 --> 1:45:57.040 worse totally. 1:45:57.080 --> 1:45:58.800 The Products and Service says, it's simple of this show. 1:45:59.160 --> 1:46:11.439 Yeah yeah, all right, we're back. 1:46:11.720 --> 1:46:16.120 It's me And predictably, I suppose I am talking about 1:46:16.120 --> 1:46:20.639 Franco as Spain, so Franti's got Franco attempted to rebuild 1:46:20.640 --> 1:46:25.040 Spain after Civil War, both through explicit eugenics and through 1:46:26.000 --> 1:46:30.679 the nationalization of women's bodies, abortion and contraceptual bands. Abortion 1:46:30.800 --> 1:46:33.120 had been legal, Spain was one of the first countries 1:46:33.160 --> 1:46:36.519 to do that. Right when federally gon Monceni, anarchist minister 1:46:36.880 --> 1:46:39.599 made that legal minister of I guess public health that 1:46:39.640 --> 1:46:41.360 was made illegal. I think it didn't become legally again 1:46:41.439 --> 1:46:44.599 until about twenty ten. In Spain, abortion and and less 1:46:44.600 --> 1:46:47.280 it was like a serious health issue, elective abortion. I guess. 1:46:47.560 --> 1:46:51.639 Franco's military in the Civil War consistently used sexual violence 1:46:51.680 --> 1:46:53.680 as or weapon, and we can see this as a 1:46:53.760 --> 1:47:00.000 kind of prelude to his nationalization of birthing bodies. Right, yeah, 1:47:00.439 --> 1:47:04.040 who is a Francoist general? Right makes a speech in 1:47:04.120 --> 1:47:08.160 July nineteen thirty six, quote, Our valiant legionnaires and regulades 1:47:08.280 --> 1:47:10.760 have shown the red cowards what true men are. And 1:47:10.760 --> 1:47:13.800 they're women as well. This is totally justified because these 1:47:13.800 --> 1:47:17.240 communists and anarchists anarkate free love. At least now they 1:47:17.280 --> 1:47:20.000 will know what real men are, not the militia gaze. 1:47:20.280 --> 1:47:22.639 This is a translation that I'm reading to so people 1:47:22.880 --> 1:47:26.479 can go to the original document. But gays is not 1:47:26.560 --> 1:47:29.040 the word he used. A better translation would be a 1:47:29.080 --> 1:47:33.400 word that begins with f Yeah. Okay, yeah. They will 1:47:33.439 --> 1:47:35.759 not escape, however much. They kick their legs and scream 1:47:36.439 --> 1:47:38.919 like this is a general in their army making explicit 1:47:39.040 --> 1:47:42.360 rape threats. Right, They weren't subtle about this. Yes, the 1:47:42.360 --> 1:47:46.160 Spanish Falange, which is Spain's fascist party, also had a 1:47:46.160 --> 1:47:51.280 Cecion Feminina, a women's section. My PhD supervisor Pamela Radcliff 1:47:51.320 --> 1:47:54.679 is written extensively about this. The group very much served 1:47:54.680 --> 1:47:57.920 as kind of the Propaganderama state natalist policy. It taught 1:47:57.960 --> 1:48:00.320 women from a young age they were inferior and you 1:48:00.320 --> 1:48:03.200 get to men. They had to go through the organization's programs. 1:48:03.240 --> 1:48:06.000 To do anything, any engagement with the state, they had 1:48:06.000 --> 1:48:09.160 to first go through the women's section. Right. If they 1:48:09.160 --> 1:48:10.720 wanted to get a passport, they wanted to get a 1:48:10.840 --> 1:48:14.200 driving license, if they wanted to engage with the world 1:48:14.280 --> 1:48:16.880 outside of their homes in any way, they had to 1:48:16.880 --> 1:48:20.479 go through this program, which indoctrinated them that their highest 1:48:20.520 --> 1:48:25.000 calling and only value was to have children. Women's role 1:48:25.280 --> 1:48:28.519 in the Francoist project then, was child bearing a child 1:48:28.520 --> 1:48:31.680 rearing Francoist I'm going to use intellectuals here in like 1:48:32.280 --> 1:48:36.200 quotation scare quotes, right, frequently turned to phrenology to justify 1:48:36.280 --> 1:48:41.519 women's domestic role. They fucking loved a phrenology. Right. It's 1:48:41.520 --> 1:48:44.080 great to go to antiques markets in Spain because you 1:48:44.080 --> 1:48:48.599 could always buy like a phrenology head. You can acquire 1:48:48.680 --> 1:48:52.040 like an og one, you know, like better if you 1:48:52.040 --> 1:48:54.120 know the replace to let you could find some find 1:48:54.120 --> 1:48:55.519 the calipers. That's the dream. 1:48:55.720 --> 1:48:59.400 There is actually a lot of those secondhand stores in Portland. 1:49:00.520 --> 1:49:07.240 Yeah, shocking hand sclasping me with francoism, and I found 1:49:07.240 --> 1:49:08.960 a lot of uses for those calibers. 1:49:09.160 --> 1:49:11.320 Let me tell you, no, I mean the phrenology skulls. 1:49:11.479 --> 1:49:14.639 Oh okay, yeah, yeah, I've seen them all over down Yeah. 1:49:14.680 --> 1:49:16.400 But I bet you, I bet you are replicas. I 1:49:16.400 --> 1:49:18.880 bet they're not like o G phrenology skulls. 1:49:19.240 --> 1:49:21.000 There's a market in France im to that just had 1:49:21.000 --> 1:49:25.080 a bunch of monks skulls, like real real, it seems fine. 1:49:25.600 --> 1:49:27.320 There was one that had been turned into a holder 1:49:27.360 --> 1:49:29.479 for a bible, like they'd cut like an L shaped 1:49:29.520 --> 1:49:31.240 cut in the skull of pretty cool. It was like 1:49:31.240 --> 1:49:33.759 three grand you make a courtesy for the Qoran. But 1:49:33.760 --> 1:49:36.519 but like this was a while ago, but seemed like 1:49:36.520 --> 1:49:37.080 a good prod. 1:49:37.600 --> 1:49:41.320 Just skull Talk, your favorite podcast discussing craniums. 1:49:41.760 --> 1:49:45.439 Yeah, using the discount code, it could happen here. You 1:49:45.439 --> 1:49:49.160 can get ten percent off the skull Bible holder, Yeah, 1:49:49.240 --> 1:49:52.679 that's right, Okay. So one of the things they did 1:49:53.000 --> 1:49:56.639 was to increasingly marginalized midwives and instead like have male 1:49:56.920 --> 1:50:01.080 doctors taking control of the child birthing pros because midwives 1:50:01.080 --> 1:50:03.519 would advocate for their patients too much and they didn't 1:50:03.520 --> 1:50:05.880 feel that women belonged to work outside the home. Right. 1:50:06.400 --> 1:50:10.160 A big part of Franco's pro natalism was the repudiation 1:50:10.200 --> 1:50:13.200 of an Arco feminism that had been relatively important to 1:50:13.280 --> 1:50:18.639 the Spanish Revolution. Right, the anarchists believed in revolutionary marriage 1:50:18.640 --> 1:50:23.679 and free love. Their follow through on those beliefs varied wildly, right, 1:50:23.760 --> 1:50:26.839 So we can see that in some collectivized industries, for instance, 1:50:27.479 --> 1:50:31.000 the unions took on the role they would assign women 1:50:31.360 --> 1:50:35.000 I guess I was going to say mentors, but apprenticeships, right, So, 1:50:35.120 --> 1:50:38.559 like they wanted, in for instance, to CNT Transport Union. 1:50:38.640 --> 1:50:42.360 Once the revolution had happened and the CNT Transport Union 1:50:42.400 --> 1:50:46.719 had been collectivized, women who wished to be tram drivers 1:50:46.800 --> 1:50:49.960 or bus drivers could apprentice to men in that position, 1:50:50.040 --> 1:50:53.479 so that in order to achieve more gender equality within 1:50:54.000 --> 1:50:58.000 that sphere. Right, this is something that the Franco estate hated. 1:50:58.640 --> 1:51:00.800 It also had its own kind of unique take on 1:51:00.920 --> 1:51:08.000 eugenics that that manifested in its pro natalism. Spain couldn't 1:51:08.200 --> 1:51:13.439 really do the straight racial eugenics right like that, that 1:51:13.520 --> 1:51:17.080 doesn't really work with Spanish history. But instead they saw 1:51:17.280 --> 1:51:21.719 leftism as being some kind of genetic defect and something 1:51:21.760 --> 1:51:25.160 of a pathogen that spread within society. Welcome mind virus. 1:51:25.320 --> 1:51:28.280 Yeah yeah, yeah, god no, it's it's. 1:51:28.120 --> 1:51:31.400 Pulling from the same type of fascist right. 1:51:32.600 --> 1:51:35.360 It also practiced something called anti Semitism without Jews at 1:51:35.360 --> 1:51:39.000 this time, so there was a very very small Jewish 1:51:39.080 --> 1:51:44.800 population space. But nonetheless, Franco was constantly freaking out about 1:51:44.840 --> 1:51:50.559 Judeo Bolshevism. He saw liberalism, Marxism, anarchism, feminism, Judaism, et 1:51:50.640 --> 1:51:53.880 cetera as completely antithetical to spanishness, and of course they 1:51:53.880 --> 1:51:56.320 blame us for their national declient right something little fascists 1:51:56.360 --> 1:51:59.919 like to talk about. This anti leftist eugenics and proNT 1:52:01.240 --> 1:52:05.920 extended to something called ninos robalos nenzfostats in Catalan. These 1:52:06.040 --> 1:52:10.400 children were abducted from their parents. Sometimes this is when 1:52:10.880 --> 1:52:14.120 their parents were in jail. Sometimes it was when the 1:52:14.160 --> 1:52:17.719 parents had been killed. Sometimes it was when the mother 1:52:17.800 --> 1:52:20.759 had been forced into incarceration by something called the Women's 1:52:20.800 --> 1:52:24.680 Protection Board. This, theoretically run by Franca's wife, was a 1:52:24.720 --> 1:52:28.800 way of institutionalizing quote unquote fallen women or women who 1:52:28.840 --> 1:52:32.920 were quote at risk of falling. It provides a way 1:52:32.960 --> 1:52:36.080 to force any woman you want to into an institution. 1:52:36.880 --> 1:52:41.280 These children who were taken from their mothers were often 1:52:41.320 --> 1:52:45.439 trafficked and some cases sold to approve families by nuns 1:52:45.439 --> 1:52:47.559 and priests. I'm going to quote one example from a 1:52:47.600 --> 1:52:51.679 BBC article in nineteen seventy one. Manoli, who was twenty 1:52:51.720 --> 1:52:54.559 three at the time and not long married, gave birth 1:52:54.560 --> 1:52:56.479 to what she was told with a healthy baby boy, 1:52:57.000 --> 1:52:59.200 but he was immediately taken away for what were called 1:52:59.320 --> 1:53:04.760 routine tests. Nine interminable hours passed. Then a nun who 1:53:04.840 --> 1:53:07.000 was a nurse called in for me that my baby 1:53:07.040 --> 1:53:09.880 had died. She said they would not let her have 1:53:09.920 --> 1:53:12.160 her son's body, nor would they tell her when the 1:53:12.240 --> 1:53:15.160 funeral would be. Some of these clinics went as far 1:53:15.200 --> 1:53:17.360 as to keep the body of a dead baby in 1:53:17.400 --> 1:53:20.799 a freezer and they would bring it out to show mothers. 1:53:21.479 --> 1:53:24.360 They even dug grave for babies, but many of those 1:53:24.400 --> 1:53:29.240 grave just contained stones or the remains of adults. These 1:53:29.280 --> 1:53:34.599 babies were then given or sold to other families and raised, 1:53:34.640 --> 1:53:36.840 and in some cases they lived their whole lives and 1:53:36.920 --> 1:53:40.639 died without ever knowing who their parents were. Right. I remember, 1:53:40.760 --> 1:53:43.280 like I was doing my PhD when the initial research 1:53:43.320 --> 1:53:46.480 into this was being done, And it is fucking horrible 1:53:46.640 --> 1:53:49.240 for people to find this out, right, like, because the 1:53:49.240 --> 1:53:51.240 people who were stolen from their families and in many 1:53:51.280 --> 1:53:55.080 cases are like still alive, right and in most cases 1:53:55.120 --> 1:53:59.400 their birth ctificately exists with say mother unknown. And that 1:53:59.760 --> 1:54:02.880 was a process that existed to protect women who have 1:54:02.960 --> 1:54:05.960 had children outside of marriage, but was also used to 1:54:06.080 --> 1:54:09.600 steal babies and leave no paper trail. At least in 1:54:09.600 --> 1:54:12.519 twenty eleven, the BBC confronted one of the doctors who 1:54:12.560 --> 1:54:15.479 was doing this. It's kind of a wild BBC. I've 1:54:15.520 --> 1:54:17.679 linked it as an article. There was also like a 1:54:17.800 --> 1:54:21.080 I guess it's like a podcast, a radio documentary where 1:54:21.400 --> 1:54:23.600 one of their reporters had recently had a baby so 1:54:23.640 --> 1:54:27.160 it was able to make an appointment with the obgyn 1:54:27.240 --> 1:54:30.120 who was stealing these babies, and when she confronted him, 1:54:30.320 --> 1:54:33.440 he grasped the crucifix and started brandishing it at her. 1:54:33.920 --> 1:54:39.840 In Jesus, the first incredible country. The reason that they 1:54:39.880 --> 1:54:43.680 did this right was because their fascism was of a 1:54:43.760 --> 1:54:46.520 unique kind that was, you know, Paul Preston said that 1:54:46.520 --> 1:54:49.640 Franco wasn't fascist, you with something worse. They had what's 1:54:49.640 --> 1:54:53.160 called national Catholicism right, which prevented them from doing sterilization 1:54:53.400 --> 1:54:56.200 or abortion. So instead they felt that they could steal 1:54:56.280 --> 1:54:59.920 these children and sort of raise them outside of the 1:55:00.240 --> 1:55:02.440 leftist kind of pathogen. 1:55:02.160 --> 1:55:05.960 I do love just I'm working on the Salazar episodes 1:55:06.040 --> 1:55:08.960 right now. I love how often Iberians are like, we're 1:55:09.000 --> 1:55:11.800 gonna do fascism just but like we're gonna put some 1:55:11.880 --> 1:55:15.200 spins on it, like how the Portuguese were like, we're 1:55:15.200 --> 1:55:19.280 gonna do fascism, but with us having sex with absolutely everyone, 1:55:19.320 --> 1:55:21.560 we're colonizing and trying to make an argument to the 1:55:21.600 --> 1:55:24.680 fact that like that makes us the good colonizers because 1:55:24.720 --> 1:55:28.280 of all the sex assaults. We're not racist, guys, It's fine, 1:55:29.600 --> 1:55:31.800 We're communing. 1:55:32.640 --> 1:55:37.520 God. Iberia Baby Spain is different, as the slogan used 1:55:37.560 --> 1:55:40.800 to go m was a Francoist tourism slogan back in 1:55:40.840 --> 1:55:43.640 the day. Yeah, so the discourse, the quote true Catholic 1:55:43.720 --> 1:55:47.920 womanhood was essential to Francoist nationalization of women. They were 1:55:48.200 --> 1:55:51.080 raised to serve the patia right, the fatherland, with their bodies, 1:55:51.240 --> 1:55:54.360 not their minds. In the Republic, Spain had used secular 1:55:54.480 --> 1:55:57.400 education to fight it's perceived in real backwardness compared to 1:55:57.440 --> 1:56:01.400 the rest of Europe, the Francoist predictive opposite. It returned 1:56:01.480 --> 1:56:05.560 for its inspiration to sixteenth century Catholic texts, and they 1:56:05.600 --> 1:56:08.920 saw intellectual development as a risk to femininity and a 1:56:09.000 --> 1:56:11.760 risk to the ultimate goal of women's lives, which was motherhood. 1:56:12.400 --> 1:56:14.640 In terms of I guess birth rates like they did have. 1:56:15.320 --> 1:56:16.960 You have a post war baby boom rate. You have 1:56:17.000 --> 1:56:19.760 that everywhere that is affected by a large war, Like 1:56:20.200 --> 1:56:23.240 you know, there are pretty obvious reasons for this, and 1:56:23.280 --> 1:56:27.280 then birth rates do go up until like the nineteen seventies, 1:56:27.560 --> 1:56:31.040 nineteen eighties, and then they start declining rapidly and Spain 1:56:31.280 --> 1:56:33.560 is once again in like a sort of not so 1:56:33.640 --> 1:56:36.000 much a birth rate panic. I didn't think, but it 1:56:36.080 --> 1:56:39.640 is noted that Spanish birth rates have gone down since 1:56:39.680 --> 1:56:43.880 the nineteen eighties, but nonetheless Spanish birth rates never more 1:56:43.960 --> 1:56:46.720 particularly high compared to those in the rest of Europe 1:56:46.840 --> 1:56:49.920 because Franco was an absolutely wrapped up to the economy, right, 1:56:50.080 --> 1:56:52.120 which made it harder for people to have more children. 1:56:52.480 --> 1:56:53.760 But yeah, that's what I've got. If you want to 1:56:53.800 --> 1:56:56.720 read more on Ninio Strobados, I think there's a TV 1:56:56.880 --> 1:56:59.560 series about it now, Stolen Children. I'm sure you can 1:56:59.560 --> 1:57:02.640 find it wastitles. But someone made a documentary on this 1:57:02.720 --> 1:57:04.800 that was presented in academic conference I did, and if 1:57:04.840 --> 1:57:06.360 I find the link, I will put it in the 1:57:06.360 --> 1:57:07.640 show notes. Hell. 1:57:07.720 --> 1:57:13.000 Yeah, well, I think it's time to talk about Romania now. 1:57:14.440 --> 1:57:16.800 When it comes to who is the worst at doing 1:57:16.840 --> 1:57:21.200 pro natalism, there's a lot of contenders, but I feel 1:57:21.200 --> 1:57:23.920 like we got the usane bolt of natalism right here, 1:57:23.960 --> 1:57:26.920 and it's s chi Jescu regime. So we got to 1:57:26.920 --> 1:57:29.120 peel back a little bit here and talk about you know, 1:57:29.120 --> 1:57:31.960 when communism first came to Romania, which was like kind 1:57:31.960 --> 1:57:34.320 of the end of forty seven, early nineteen forty eight, 1:57:34.880 --> 1:57:37.400 and in the first years of the communist regime, it 1:57:37.440 --> 1:57:40.680 brought the same changes that communist governments in Europe all 1:57:40.720 --> 1:57:44.440 tended to bring in the post war period, obviously earlier 1:57:44.440 --> 1:57:47.520 for the USSR. And a lot of these are good actually, right, 1:57:47.600 --> 1:57:50.320 not to deny all the horrible things that were happening. 1:57:50.320 --> 1:57:53.320 But life changes pretty dramatically in a positive way for 1:57:53.400 --> 1:57:55.680 a lot of women. This is true in Russia as well. 1:57:55.960 --> 1:57:59.520 Literacy for women rises, the employment rate for women rises, 1:57:59.560 --> 1:58:01.960 And this happened across society, right. A lot of the 1:58:01.960 --> 1:58:06.520 poorest people in these societies experience substantial initial lifts, right. 1:58:06.600 --> 1:58:10.480 And along with that, lifespan increases pretty dramatically. Rates of 1:58:10.560 --> 1:58:15.040 accidental death fall pretty dramatically, and literacy increases. And again, 1:58:15.080 --> 1:58:18.560 it increases across the board, but it is particularly significant 1:58:18.600 --> 1:58:19.080 for women. 1:58:19.280 --> 1:58:19.480 Right. 1:58:19.960 --> 1:58:24.600 And this is all lovely, These are good things, right. However, 1:58:24.640 --> 1:58:26.440 it comes with a problem for a lot of the 1:58:26.520 --> 1:58:28.200 leaders And this is not just true in Romania, but 1:58:28.200 --> 1:58:30.440 we're talking about Romania here. It comes with the problem 1:58:30.480 --> 1:58:33.040 for a lot of the leadership of Romania's Communist Party, 1:58:33.280 --> 1:58:35.560 which is that one of the things we see in 1:58:35.600 --> 1:58:39.520 every society when people have more and are doing better 1:58:39.600 --> 1:58:44.080 and live longer, is that they start having less kids, because, 1:58:44.200 --> 1:58:46.480 among other things, all their kids aren't dying. 1:58:46.720 --> 1:58:46.840 Right. 1:58:46.880 --> 1:58:49.560 One reason why birth rates are high is people are like, yeah, well, 1:58:49.560 --> 1:58:51.280 like the three of them might live, right, you know, 1:58:51.320 --> 1:58:53.800 I gotta I gotta really pump these numbers up them 1:58:53.800 --> 1:58:56.080 and have enough kids to keep this fucking farm going, right, 1:58:56.400 --> 1:58:59.080 And when that stops happening, women are like, well, maybe 1:58:59.120 --> 1:59:01.160 I don't need to have eleven kids, yeah, right, Like 1:59:01.160 --> 1:59:02.760 if they're all going to live to adults, I don't 1:59:02.760 --> 1:59:06.200 need in children to be adults, right, So birth rates 1:59:06.240 --> 1:59:08.880 start to fall. This freaks out though a lot of 1:59:08.920 --> 1:59:11.720 these these communists, because the kind of communists who are 1:59:11.720 --> 1:59:16.400 like leading Romania are very traditional Marxists, right, And Marx 1:59:16.680 --> 1:59:19.280 was what you call a physiocrat, right, which is a 1:59:19.360 --> 1:59:20.960 term that I found for the first time in a 1:59:21.040 --> 1:59:23.080 Journal of Family History article, But it's a term you 1:59:23.080 --> 1:59:25.040 can find other places. And the basic idea is that 1:59:25.240 --> 1:59:26.840 and this is an idea that then it goes back 1:59:26.880 --> 1:59:30.400 to the original Marx. More people equals better economy, right, 1:59:30.480 --> 1:59:34.400 equals more productivity. So falling fertility is seen as a 1:59:34.480 --> 1:59:37.920 potential calamity for the state. You know, obviously this isn't 1:59:38.000 --> 1:59:41.040 how it works, Like the US has had fertility rates 1:59:41.040 --> 1:59:44.839 falling and like economic prosperity rise in the same period 1:59:44.840 --> 1:59:48.480 of time. But this is like a thing that they think, 1:59:48.560 --> 1:59:50.040 right then that like if we don't bump up these 1:59:50.040 --> 1:59:52.160 birth rates we're going to deal with like an actual 1:59:52.200 --> 1:59:56.920 economic disaster. So by the time Nikolaichichesku takes over as 1:59:57.000 --> 1:59:59.400 party leader on June twenty third, nineteen sixty six, the 1:59:59.400 --> 2:00:01.640 problem is serious enough in his eyes that it had 2:00:01.680 --> 2:00:05.640 become a crisis and the birth rate had declined pretty precipitously. 2:00:05.800 --> 2:00:08.680 In nineteen fifty five, there were about twenty five point 2:00:08.720 --> 2:00:12.800 six life births per thousand people in Romania, and by 2:00:12.800 --> 2:00:15.560 the time to Chescu takes over, there's about fourteen live 2:00:15.640 --> 2:00:18.840 births per thousand people. Right now, for reference, both of 2:00:18.880 --> 2:00:20.800 those are still higher than the US birth rate. Right now, 2:00:20.880 --> 2:00:22.960 we're at about eleven a little less than eleven live 2:00:23.000 --> 2:00:25.480 births per thousand people in the country. The only reason 2:00:25.520 --> 2:00:28.200 why the US population continues to grow is immigration, but 2:00:28.440 --> 2:00:32.040 that's a topic for another day. Cichescu stated that women 2:00:32.160 --> 2:00:35.280 needed to use their influence to rebuild the family, and 2:00:35.400 --> 2:00:37.760 per that article in the Journal of Family History, Cichescu 2:00:37.840 --> 2:00:40.880 declared that backward attitudes and expressions of levity toward the 2:00:40.880 --> 2:00:44.440 family must be combated with determination because they result in 2:00:44.480 --> 2:00:47.160 an increase in the number of divorces in the disintegration 2:00:47.200 --> 2:00:49.160 of the family. And then the neglect of the children's 2:00:49.240 --> 2:00:52.000 education and training for life. And this is something that 2:00:52.040 --> 2:00:55.080 had come alongside the revolution, right that there's a lot 2:00:55.080 --> 2:00:58.680 of more critical ideas about these traditional concepts like the 2:00:58.720 --> 2:01:02.280 family in the society that it existed before. And a 2:01:02.280 --> 2:01:04.160 lot of people are like, well, but you know, we're 2:01:04.600 --> 2:01:08.600 becoming more scientific, you know, we have like women have jobs. Now, 2:01:08.760 --> 2:01:10.760 maybe a lot of these attitudes about what the family 2:01:10.800 --> 2:01:13.640 should be are kind of outdated. And he's saying, no, no, no, no, 2:01:13.680 --> 2:01:15.160 they're not, they're not you need to go back to 2:01:15.200 --> 2:01:18.120 having a shitload of kids, right, And he announces a 2:01:18.160 --> 2:01:21.040 new initiative to increase the population of Romania by thirty 2:01:21.080 --> 2:01:25.520 percent by nineteen ninety so, which I don't know if 2:01:25.560 --> 2:01:28.560 the idea that would ever be possible is a long shot. 2:01:28.840 --> 2:01:29.000 Right. 2:01:29.200 --> 2:01:33.760 So that's that's a massive change in society. But Chichescu 2:01:34.280 --> 2:01:38.320 isn't a logic thinker guy, right, He's not like running 2:01:38.360 --> 2:01:40.800 the numbers hardcore here. He's just sort of throwing out 2:01:40.800 --> 2:01:43.680 some shit that sounds good. And so to encourage the shift, 2:01:43.680 --> 2:01:47.280 he leashes a famous raft of new legislation aimed towards 2:01:47.480 --> 2:01:50.400 like pro natalism, towards massively increasing the birth rate. The 2:01:50.440 --> 2:01:53.280 first step is that abortion is banned for nearly all 2:01:53.320 --> 2:01:56.520 women in the country. There are some exceptions. For example, 2:01:56.560 --> 2:01:58.880 you can qualify for an abortion if you've had if 2:01:58.880 --> 2:02:03.240 you already have five children under eighteen in the house concurrently. 2:02:04.000 --> 2:02:05.160 Which is nice. 2:02:05.680 --> 2:02:07.920 There's one or two other exceptions based on your age, 2:02:07.960 --> 2:02:11.120 but there aren't many exceptions per an article in PubMed. 2:02:11.320 --> 2:02:14.280 In addition, employed women under age forty five years are 2:02:14.280 --> 2:02:18.840 required to undergo monthly gynecologic examinations at their workplaces, and 2:02:18.880 --> 2:02:22.880 any pregnancies detected are monitored to term. Unmarried persons over 2:02:22.960 --> 2:02:25.720 twenty five years of age and childless married couples without 2:02:25.720 --> 2:02:28.880 a valid medical reason for infertility are assessed to thirty 2:02:28.880 --> 2:02:32.680 percent tax on income. Jesus Women who refuse to have 2:02:32.800 --> 2:02:37.240 children have been termed deserters. Despite official pro natalist policies. 2:02:37.240 --> 2:02:39.440 It has been estimated that forty percent of the seven 2:02:39.520 --> 2:02:42.680 hundred thousand Romanian women pregnant in nineteen eighty five had 2:02:42.760 --> 2:02:45.840 illegal abortions. A special unit has been established within the 2:02:45.880 --> 2:02:48.840 State Security Police to combat this practice. So we're so 2:02:49.040 --> 2:02:51.920 close to this, we are we are not They really 2:02:51.960 --> 2:02:54.040 want to do all of. 2:02:53.920 --> 2:02:55.840 This we're like knocking on the door. 2:02:56.080 --> 2:02:57.840 They are like that is the thing that I really 2:02:57.840 --> 2:03:00.360 want to drive home is that the closest that I 2:03:00.440 --> 2:03:03.080 have found in all of my rings, the closest direct 2:03:03.160 --> 2:03:06.000 graph to what guys like Vance and Musk are suggesting 2:03:06.040 --> 2:03:08.040 for US policy is Romania. 2:03:09.520 --> 2:03:12.400 Like and it's also the worst that has ever worked. 2:03:14.120 --> 2:03:16.560 When I was a lot younger, Like when I was sixteen, 2:03:16.720 --> 2:03:21.240 I volunteered in an orphanage venure diverting kids in Romania. 2:03:21.680 --> 2:03:24.320 Jesus fucking Christ. Well, I mean they created a culture 2:03:24.320 --> 2:03:27.080 of child abandonment, right, Like, yes, yeah, we'll be talking 2:03:27.120 --> 2:03:29.880 about that. That shit fucked me up, And yeah, you 2:03:29.920 --> 2:03:31.920 shouldn't send your sixteen year old children to do that, 2:03:32.160 --> 2:03:33.240 to be kod, but like. 2:03:33.680 --> 2:03:36.160 No, and you're you're encountering it after the worst of 2:03:36.160 --> 2:03:38.840 it too, which we'll talk about here, not to minimize 2:03:38.840 --> 2:03:41.120 the experience, but we'll be discussing where it was at 2:03:41.160 --> 2:03:44.560 its worst. So it's worth noting that while women did 2:03:44.600 --> 2:03:47.720 start working at a higher rate after Communist takeover, that 2:03:47.800 --> 2:03:50.680 started to plateau by the time that Chicheski, because obviously, 2:03:50.720 --> 2:03:52.880 like there was still a lot of Communism doesn't get 2:03:52.960 --> 2:03:55.480 rid of men being shitty to women, right, it does 2:03:56.240 --> 2:03:57.800 do things do get a lot better. 2:03:58.000 --> 2:04:01.200 Right, sometimes it empowers shit And at. 2:04:01.040 --> 2:04:03.080 The start, like kind of right around when he announces 2:04:03.120 --> 2:04:05.760 the set of fertility laws, he does try to institute 2:04:05.760 --> 2:04:08.000 a policy with the goal of increasing the number of 2:04:08.040 --> 2:04:11.240 women working at high positions in different state departments. Right, 2:04:11.280 --> 2:04:12.920 there is an initial like we're going to break the 2:04:12.960 --> 2:04:15.680 grant glass ceiling kind of thing, but that doesn't last long. 2:04:15.720 --> 2:04:18.520 He basically cancels any sort of messaging or work on 2:04:18.560 --> 2:04:21.440 the policy. After his wife, Elena, is made a member 2:04:21.480 --> 2:04:23.880 of the party executive committee. He's like, women have gone 2:04:23.880 --> 2:04:31.360 fired up. Look at my wife. Classic chichesku. Yes, classic 2:04:31.440 --> 2:04:37.840 guy who's going to die with his wife in a basement. So, 2:04:38.040 --> 2:04:40.880 as is always the case with shit like this, women 2:04:40.920 --> 2:04:43.360 were not equally impacted by the abortion ban. 2:04:43.640 --> 2:04:44.120 Largely. 2:04:44.360 --> 2:04:47.560 The impacts were pretty wildly divergent based on your level 2:04:47.560 --> 2:04:49.240 of wealth and social class. And I'm going to quote 2:04:49.280 --> 2:04:53.560 from an investigation by the NGO Helsinki Watch, who conducted 2:04:53.600 --> 2:04:56.200 a deep investigation into all of this immediately after the 2:04:56.240 --> 2:04:59.360 regime fell. Women were not equally affected by the pro 2:04:59.400 --> 2:05:02.400 natalist pos policies. Members of the urban middle class managed 2:05:02.400 --> 2:05:04.920 somehow or another to get contraceptives on the black market. 2:05:04.920 --> 2:05:07.400 Oh I should also know contraceptives were basically made illegal, 2:05:07.680 --> 2:05:10.560 with the exception of like condoms. They could also obtain 2:05:10.640 --> 2:05:14.320 medical abortions. A Bucharest student candidly informed Helsinki Watch that 2:05:14.400 --> 2:05:16.880 several years ago, when his girlfriend became pregnant, the abortion 2:05:16.960 --> 2:05:19.400 had cost him five thousand lay or about fifty dollars 2:05:19.480 --> 2:05:22.240 on the black market, and several women with professional degrees 2:05:22.240 --> 2:05:24.560 reported matter of factly that they had simply refused to 2:05:24.600 --> 2:05:28.080 cooperate with government gynecological inspectors who came to their institutes 2:05:28.240 --> 2:05:31.560 without suffering any reprisals. Nor were the most rural segments 2:05:31.560 --> 2:05:34.920 of the population deeply affected. The Orthodox Christians had long 2:05:34.960 --> 2:05:37.520 shunned birth control and abortion, and others like the ROMA 2:05:37.560 --> 2:05:40.520 had not practiced it. The brunt of the policy fell 2:05:40.520 --> 2:05:43.800 on the lower middle class, particularly factory workers, single women, 2:05:44.160 --> 2:05:47.240 urban ROMA, and those from disorganized or troubled families, none 2:05:47.240 --> 2:05:50.440 of whom had the money or connections to circumvent the regulations. 2:05:50.920 --> 2:05:53.360 Their options were as limited as they were life threatening. 2:05:53.400 --> 2:05:55.800 Some used a variety of would be aborta fascians. Others 2:05:55.840 --> 2:05:58.560 availed themselves of the services of a back alley abortionist. 2:05:58.840 --> 2:06:01.840 Still others carried to term and the number of deaths, 2:06:02.120 --> 2:06:04.000 the mortality rate for women as a result of this 2:06:04.040 --> 2:06:06.400 did right, Like, there's a lot of hideous stuff there. 2:06:06.480 --> 2:06:08.760 We're kind of doing the shortest version of this, But 2:06:08.800 --> 2:06:11.320 I don't mean to paper over that a lot of 2:06:11.360 --> 2:06:14.440 women died and suffered lasting injury in fertility and a 2:06:14.520 --> 2:06:17.680 number of other things because of different back alley abortions 2:06:17.680 --> 2:06:19.160 and weird drugs that they were given. 2:06:19.520 --> 2:06:20.440 But it's important to. 2:06:20.360 --> 2:06:23.280 Note that women who had money and opposition in the 2:06:23.280 --> 2:06:26.440 social class could still gain access to this shit. And 2:06:26.480 --> 2:06:28.840 that's how it will work here too, right, Like, these 2:06:28.880 --> 2:06:32.880 Republican congressmen will not be restricting their family members from 2:06:32.920 --> 2:06:34.920 having access to this stuff. 2:06:35.080 --> 2:06:37.040 They'll be restricting poor people. Right. 2:06:37.280 --> 2:06:39.360 Yeah, Now, the first thing I should know about this 2:06:39.400 --> 2:06:42.000 whole raft of policies Toichescu introduced is that they did 2:06:42.040 --> 2:06:44.880 not work. That Journal of Family History article that I've 2:06:44.960 --> 2:06:47.160 quoted from a couple of times. Here ran the numbers 2:06:47.200 --> 2:06:49.760 to try to analyze how well did this, like, how 2:06:49.800 --> 2:06:53.200 did these policies correspond to birth rates in Romania? And 2:06:53.400 --> 2:06:55.320 it is true that after the first major laws were 2:06:55.320 --> 2:06:57.440 pushed in sixty seven and sixty eight. There was a 2:06:57.480 --> 2:07:01.200 brief surge in birth rates, but that very quickly and 2:07:01.240 --> 2:07:04.240 had completely disappeared. By the nineteen seventies, things were back 2:07:04.240 --> 2:07:07.839 to baseline. So in nineteen seventy four, Toichescu launches another 2:07:07.920 --> 2:07:11.120 push to increase birth rates, and again they briefly increase 2:07:11.160 --> 2:07:13.879 and then fall a year or two later. This process 2:07:13.960 --> 2:07:16.720 plays out a couple times throughout the administration, and one 2:07:16.760 --> 2:07:18.600 of the things that's important to note is that the 2:07:18.720 --> 2:07:21.560 increase that happens after every new sort of like focus 2:07:21.680 --> 2:07:25.320 on birth rates is less each time, Right, it gets 2:07:25.400 --> 2:07:28.560 less effective every time. Now, the analysis in that paper 2:07:28.560 --> 2:07:31.160 concluded the birth rate would only rise when the state 2:07:31.160 --> 2:07:35.680 applied direct pressures on the population. Otherwise it dropped, right, 2:07:36.520 --> 2:07:40.440 because this just doesn't work, Like, you're not fundamentally changing anything, 2:07:40.440 --> 2:07:42.840 and none of these incentives because they're expensive, and in 2:07:42.920 --> 2:07:45.400 Romania's case, the country literally didn't have money to provide 2:07:45.480 --> 2:07:48.240 much of the way of incentives, right, but they never 2:07:48.400 --> 2:07:51.000 are going to work. Like, as we went over earlier, 2:07:51.040 --> 2:07:53.680 the ones being proposed here are wildly insufficient to deal 2:07:53.720 --> 2:07:55.720 with the cost of having kids, let alone a bunch 2:07:55.760 --> 2:07:58.360 of fucking kids, and none of the people in charge 2:07:58.360 --> 2:08:00.760 of the Republican Party have any interest in making life 2:08:00.760 --> 2:08:03.600 affordable for people who are not rich. 2:08:04.240 --> 2:08:04.480 Now. 2:08:04.520 --> 2:08:06.760 The situation that this led to by the time that 2:08:06.840 --> 2:08:10.120 Chicheske regime fell in eighty nine was also pretty catastrophic 2:08:10.200 --> 2:08:13.280 because there had been surges in births, right, in births 2:08:13.320 --> 2:08:16.240 of kids to parents who because the people who can't 2:08:16.240 --> 2:08:18.840 get away from this tend to be the poor, could 2:08:18.840 --> 2:08:21.880 not take care of these kids right. And there was 2:08:21.920 --> 2:08:23.840 also a surge in kids as a result of the 2:08:23.880 --> 2:08:25.920 general surge in birth rate, but also as a result 2:08:25.960 --> 2:08:30.200 of different sort of issues with nutrition and whatnot. In Romania, 2:08:30.280 --> 2:08:32.320 a lot of kids who had different physical and mental 2:08:32.320 --> 2:08:35.000 disabilities right who were just abandoned straight away because their 2:08:35.040 --> 2:08:37.960 parents could not take care of them. By nineteen ninety 2:08:37.960 --> 2:08:40.520 there were an estimated one hundred and thirty thousand children 2:08:40.520 --> 2:08:44.040 in orphanages and homes for the handicapped, these institutions that 2:08:44.080 --> 2:08:47.240 had been set up in Romania, And there were like 2:08:47.520 --> 2:08:49.640 posters that were going around that were part of the 2:08:49.680 --> 2:08:52.080 pro natalist campaign that basically said, hey, if you have 2:08:52.120 --> 2:08:54.120 a kid you can't take care of or that's not 2:08:54.280 --> 2:08:57.520 like working out for you. The Romanian government can handle 2:08:57.560 --> 2:08:59.600 it better than you, So like, who cares have another 2:08:59.720 --> 2:09:02.040 kid and we'll just drop it off with us if 2:09:02.080 --> 2:09:03.920 you can't take care of them, right Like that was 2:09:03.960 --> 2:09:06.240 literally part of the propaganda campaign that led to again 2:09:06.480 --> 2:09:08.480 like one hundred and thirty thousand kids in orphanages. 2:09:08.600 --> 2:09:10.360 Oohar fucking Christ. 2:09:10.800 --> 2:09:14.160 Yeah, that hell sinky article I found quoted from a 2:09:14.200 --> 2:09:17.200 different piece of western news media, like a team of 2:09:17.280 --> 2:09:19.040 journalists that went to a town called the dell lefter 2:09:19.120 --> 2:09:22.360 Chichescu fell. And this is how that article opens. On 2:09:22.400 --> 2:09:25.040 the second floor of the state run institution. Here, dazed 2:09:25.080 --> 2:09:28.320 toddlers liars sit in iron cribs and close stuffy rooms. 2:09:28.520 --> 2:09:30.880 Their foreheads are speckled with flies and with scabs and 2:09:30.920 --> 2:09:33.080 bruises that come from banging their heads and mouths on 2:09:33.120 --> 2:09:35.880 crib rails. Some cry, but most are silent and appear 2:09:35.920 --> 2:09:39.160 bewildered behind their bars, with the doomed air of laboratory 2:09:39.200 --> 2:09:43.360 animals down the hall. Other cribs hold smaller children, pale skeletons, 2:09:43.360 --> 2:09:46.600 suffering from malnutrition and disease. Despite the heat of the day, 2:09:46.680 --> 2:09:49.240 several of the children are wrapped in dirty blankets from 2:09:49.280 --> 2:09:52.520 one still bundle, only a bluish patch of scalp is visible. 2:09:52.800 --> 2:09:55.360 Ask if the child inside is alive and orderly, says, 2:09:55.400 --> 2:09:58.400 of course and pulls back the covers. The tiny skeleton 2:09:58.480 --> 2:10:05.160 stirves turned onto its and groans, Yeah. 2:10:03.960 --> 2:10:04.560 There's worse. 2:10:04.840 --> 2:10:08.320 This is not the worst like this like Helsinki article 2:10:08.480 --> 2:10:11.080 goes into like how in the homes for the handicapped, 2:10:11.480 --> 2:10:14.280 the children are just ignored. They can go months without 2:10:14.320 --> 2:10:17.160 any real human contact within the bare men of being fed. 2:10:17.200 --> 2:10:21.440 There's no one watching these kids like this is some 2:10:21.520 --> 2:10:26.080 of the most cruelest and most hideous systematic abuse of 2:10:26.160 --> 2:10:27.320 children I've ever heard of. 2:10:27.480 --> 2:10:29.080 A lot of children die. 2:10:29.760 --> 2:10:34.200 AIDS spreads through some of these facilities like wildfire. I 2:10:34.280 --> 2:10:39.440 really cannot exaggerate like the horror of these institutions. If 2:10:39.480 --> 2:10:42.000 you do want to read more, there's two articles I'll 2:10:42.000 --> 2:10:43.800 recommend for you that I'm not going to quote up 2:10:43.800 --> 2:10:45.600 from now because we're already going long enough. But there's 2:10:45.800 --> 2:10:48.480 the Romanian Orphans are Adults Now, an article in the 2:10:48.520 --> 2:10:51.840 Atlantic that's the title. You should check that out, and 2:10:51.880 --> 2:10:55.400 then Chichescu's Children and The Guardian. Both of those articles 2:10:55.920 --> 2:10:58.920 do a good job of providing additional context and horror 2:10:58.920 --> 2:11:01.680 on this, But I think it's important to note that 2:11:01.720 --> 2:11:04.200 what happened in Romania is what sounds most familiar to 2:11:04.240 --> 2:11:07.080 the programs being pushed today and also easily the worst 2:11:07.120 --> 2:11:07.840 this has ever got. 2:11:08.120 --> 2:11:12.680 I mean, yeah, especially combined with like RFK Junior's policies. Yeah, 2:11:12.800 --> 2:11:16.560 that is like, yeah, yeah, it takes a lot for 2:11:16.600 --> 2:11:19.400 me to be like kind of shocked and horrified these days. 2:11:19.520 --> 2:11:22.280 Yeah, but that stuff is grim. It's some of the 2:11:22.280 --> 2:11:27.520 worst shit. Yeah. Yeah, oh boy, I remember that the time, 2:11:27.560 --> 2:11:31.480 there was like concern if the kids were really nonverbal, yeah, 2:11:31.520 --> 2:11:34.560 like or they just had never been talked to. Oh 2:11:34.640 --> 2:11:37.080 my god, because right, they've been institutionalized from such a 2:11:37.160 --> 2:11:40.120 year Like I was there probably about twelve years after 2:11:40.160 --> 2:11:42.440 the end of the regimes, so that these kids were 2:11:42.440 --> 2:11:45.640 in their teens, I guess, oh my god. Yeah, I 2:11:45.640 --> 2:11:47.880 remember teaching little kids to ride bikes who like had 2:11:47.920 --> 2:11:50.040 never really been able to play outside very much, and 2:11:50.080 --> 2:11:54.040 it was fucking yeah. Yeah, that shit will fuck you up. Yeah, 2:11:54.040 --> 2:11:55.840 that's a good museum. I'll see if I can find 2:11:55.840 --> 2:11:58.080 bradio Is, because if they've maintained one of the old 2:11:58.200 --> 2:12:00.560 orphanmagic as it was like with the eye and cribs 2:12:00.560 --> 2:12:03.680 and shit, and they have like projections on the walls 2:12:03.800 --> 2:12:07.400 the kids rocking and banging their heads someone had filmed. Yeah, 2:12:07.840 --> 2:12:11.640 that shit is disturbing. Like I uh, I wouldn't read 2:12:11.680 --> 2:12:13.200 any of those articles before getting to bed. 2:12:13.840 --> 2:12:17.280 Yeah, anyway, this has been it could happen here. 2:12:18.120 --> 2:12:46.240 All right, bye, this is it could happen here. Executive 2:12:46.280 --> 2:12:49.280 Disorder our weekly news class covering what's happening in the 2:12:49.320 --> 2:12:51.960 White House, the crumbling world, and what it means for you. 2:12:52.320 --> 2:12:55.360 I'm Garrison Davis today, joined by Mia Wong, Jamestowte, and 2:12:55.440 --> 2:12:59.360 Robert Evans. Yes, Taco Trump sweeps the nation, Musk is 2:12:59.360 --> 2:13:02.240 out with Steve Miller's wife, Liberation Day, tariffs or fought 2:13:02.320 --> 2:13:05.320 in court. This episode covering the week of May twenty 2:13:05.320 --> 2:13:06.520 eighth to June four. 2:13:06.920 --> 2:13:09.680 So much good stuff this week also a terrorist attack 2:13:09.760 --> 2:13:12.560 not good. But before we get into that, I want 2:13:12.600 --> 2:13:15.000 to let you guys know I watched the movie Mountainhead, 2:13:15.040 --> 2:13:17.480 and then I had a dream starring all of you 2:13:17.800 --> 2:13:20.360 in the movie mountain Head, and it went a lot 2:13:20.440 --> 2:13:23.440 better since we were just skiing and enjoying the woods. 2:13:23.840 --> 2:13:24.080 Nice. 2:13:24.080 --> 2:13:28.000 I didn't know nobody launched an AI that destroyed civilization. 2:13:28.240 --> 2:13:31.200 Steve Carell wasn't there. Actually, I wouldn't mind hanging out 2:13:31.200 --> 2:13:33.200 with Steve Carell, but not the Steve Carrell from that 2:13:33.240 --> 2:13:34.800 movie anyway. Interesting movie. 2:13:35.120 --> 2:13:38.560 Uh yeah, interesting dream too, bet it sounds of it. Wow. 2:13:38.640 --> 2:13:41.000 Thanks for that that quick Robert film review. 2:13:41.040 --> 2:13:42.200 Thanks for sharing, Bud. Yeah. 2:13:42.480 --> 2:13:44.320 I guess side piece of news that we weren't focusing 2:13:44.320 --> 2:13:46.640 on like much today, but we will do a piece 2:13:46.640 --> 2:13:48.880 on in the future is Trump has coud a deal 2:13:48.920 --> 2:13:51.360 with Palenteer to create an extensive new database that compiles 2:13:51.400 --> 2:13:54.520 information on everybody in the country. This covers bank number, 2:13:54.560 --> 2:13:57.360 is student debt, medical claims, disability status. I think this 2:13:57.440 --> 2:14:02.400 summer myself for a few other people on this episode. Well, 2:14:02.440 --> 2:14:05.720 we'll work together on an episode just about surveillance, like Flock, 2:14:05.880 --> 2:14:10.560 Gideon Foundry. These these surveillance systems that are getting like 2:14:10.600 --> 2:14:13.160 spread all across the country. So we will do a 2:14:13.160 --> 2:14:15.160 whole episode on that in the future. But let's start 2:14:15.160 --> 2:14:19.560 with that and then pivots to Robert Evans to discuss terrorism. 2:14:19.920 --> 2:14:25.720 I hardly know herorism. Someone else should continue the episode now, No, this. 2:14:25.720 --> 2:14:31.280 Is your this is your going back. Sorry, that was 2:14:31.280 --> 2:14:34.560 a perfect segue nobody's bailing you out of this ship. 2:14:36.480 --> 2:14:37.280 We're fine. 2:14:37.480 --> 2:14:39.400 Oh my god, all right, pull let me pull up 2:14:39.400 --> 2:14:41.360 the right the proper doc because I did this on 2:14:41.400 --> 2:14:44.520 my Chescu doc because we recorded both of those episodes today. 2:14:45.280 --> 2:14:47.440 What a hotwarming day you've had, Robot. 2:14:47.520 --> 2:14:52.080 Oh yeah, chi Chescu, a guy fire bombing, a rally 2:14:52.200 --> 2:14:56.720 in Denver. It's it's all been really good stuff. Yeah, 2:14:57.080 --> 2:14:58.200 mostly mostly chill. 2:14:58.280 --> 2:14:58.520 Thanks. 2:14:59.120 --> 2:15:02.960 So on June second, there was a rally in Boulder, 2:15:03.120 --> 2:15:08.440 Colorado for a group that was protesting for hostages that 2:15:08.520 --> 2:15:11.160 were taken by Hamas on October seventh. There's like, I 2:15:11.200 --> 2:15:15.840 think fifty somewhere around fifty who are still unaccounted for 2:15:15.840 --> 2:15:18.600 for varying reasons. And that was that was what approach 2:15:18.680 --> 2:15:20.040 was for. And there was like there was like a 2:15:20.080 --> 2:15:21.880 gathering and they were supposed to be doing like a run, 2:15:22.120 --> 2:15:24.920 right in order to raise awareness about the hostages. 2:15:25.000 --> 2:15:25.160 Right. 2:15:25.200 --> 2:15:29.880 So that's that's the event that happened on the second 2:15:30.360 --> 2:15:35.440 and a man approached during that gathering, Mohammed Sabri Soloman, 2:15:36.000 --> 2:15:40.000 and he started throwing molotov cocktails. Every story I have 2:15:40.080 --> 2:15:43.640 gives slightly different numbers for how many molotovs he had 2:15:43.720 --> 2:15:46.720 prepared and how many he had when he was taken. 2:15:47.000 --> 2:15:49.640 Like an AP news story said that he had sixteen 2:15:49.680 --> 2:15:52.680 unused molotovs that were covered by law enforcement after the attack, 2:15:53.320 --> 2:15:56.880 but I think CNN said fourteen, Yeah, fourteen unlit molotovs, 2:15:56.880 --> 2:15:57.920 So it's kind of clear to be. 2:15:57.880 --> 2:15:58.560 How many they were. 2:15:58.880 --> 2:16:01.880 But he threw a number of these at the group 2:16:01.920 --> 2:16:05.880 of demonstrators. He also had what's described in most of 2:16:05.920 --> 2:16:10.520 the articles I find as an improvised flamethrower. And so 2:16:10.920 --> 2:16:12.880 you know, when I heard that, my first question was, 2:16:12.920 --> 2:16:14.600 like a makeshift flamethrower. 2:16:14.640 --> 2:16:16.440 Sorry, it was the exact term the police used. 2:16:16.960 --> 2:16:18.640 And when I first heard that, I was like, well, 2:16:18.760 --> 2:16:20.360 that could mean a lot of things they could literally 2:16:20.360 --> 2:16:21.760 just do. Like he had like a cand of like 2:16:21.800 --> 2:16:24.400 spray that's that's flammable that he like looked a lighter. 2:16:24.360 --> 2:16:25.760 Up to it have link steeredrow. 2:16:25.920 --> 2:16:29.160 No, it was apparently like a fertilizer or pesticide sprayer 2:16:29.280 --> 2:16:31.880 type deal that he had fuel in. Right, So it 2:16:31.920 --> 2:16:34.600 actually was a makeshift flamethrower he was attempting, but he 2:16:34.640 --> 2:16:38.600 did not use it on the demonstrators. He did burn 2:16:38.680 --> 2:16:42.480 himself pretty badly. He had like body armor on that 2:16:42.560 --> 2:16:44.560 he took off after he like, basically what seems to 2:16:44.600 --> 2:16:46.880 have happened is he throws something like half a dozen 2:16:46.959 --> 2:16:51.400 firebombs at this crowd, and he injures a number of people, 2:16:51.560 --> 2:16:56.200 several of them quite severely. There's at least last I checked, 2:16:56.280 --> 2:16:59.200 six people who are still in the hospital, one in 2:16:59.240 --> 2:17:03.279 critical condition, although that may have changed since we recorded 2:17:03.280 --> 2:17:05.760 this podcast. The victims who were wounded range in age 2:17:05.760 --> 2:17:09.880 from fifty two to eighty eight. And yeah, so he 2:17:10.720 --> 2:17:13.480 hurts a number of people with these molotops, and then 2:17:13.560 --> 2:17:17.160 the way he described it, he like felt like he 2:17:17.160 --> 2:17:19.920 couldn't continue going through with the attack. He had been 2:17:19.959 --> 2:17:23.039 planning this thing for more than a year, we know, 2:17:23.200 --> 2:17:26.600 or at least that's what he claimed. And he basically 2:17:26.600 --> 2:17:28.640 said that, like, yeah, once I actually started it, I 2:17:28.720 --> 2:17:32.160 found it very difficult to continue. So it seems like 2:17:32.200 --> 2:17:35.360 he kind of like didn't go as far with this 2:17:35.440 --> 2:17:37.440 thing as he could have, because it turns out, lighting 2:17:37.480 --> 2:17:40.279 people on fire, even when you're very angry, is something 2:17:40.320 --> 2:17:42.920 that most people cannot bring themselves to do past a 2:17:43.040 --> 2:17:47.040 certain point. He is on video screaming Palestinas free, and 2:17:47.120 --> 2:17:49.600 he stated to the authorities that when he'd been planning 2:17:49.600 --> 2:17:52.600 this for a year. His goal was to kill Zionists. 2:17:52.959 --> 2:17:54.600 So you know, this is very it's very clear, like 2:17:54.680 --> 2:17:58.720 what this is motivated by, right, Like what his motivation was. 2:17:59.280 --> 2:18:03.280 His background is interesting. I guess you'd say he and 2:18:03.320 --> 2:18:07.280 his family come from Egypt, and yeah, he attended like 2:18:07.360 --> 2:18:10.400 high school in Egypt and later moved to Kuwait. He 2:18:10.480 --> 2:18:12.120 has a history of like it seems like he kind 2:18:12.160 --> 2:18:16.200 of got politically active during the Arab Spring. He posted 2:18:16.200 --> 2:18:18.200 a bunch of pictures of Mohammed Morsey, the leader of 2:18:18.200 --> 2:18:21.240 the Muslim Brotherhood who served as Egypt's president from twenty 2:18:21.360 --> 2:18:25.640 twelve to twenty thirteen. He protested against the military coup 2:18:25.760 --> 2:18:30.080 that removed Morsey from power, and he and his family 2:18:30.440 --> 2:18:33.440 entered the United States in August of twenty twenty two 2:18:33.520 --> 2:18:37.160 as a non immigrant visitor, and in twenty twenty three 2:18:37.240 --> 2:18:40.400 he received a two year work authorization, which expired in March. 2:18:40.800 --> 2:18:42.600 He had tried to come to the US in two 2:18:42.600 --> 2:18:45.760 thousand and five. His primary goal in coming here in 2:18:45.800 --> 2:18:49.440 twenty twenty two was to get his daughter, primarily into 2:18:49.480 --> 2:18:52.119 a good medical school. He moved there with his wife 2:18:52.160 --> 2:18:55.320 and his kids. His daughter was on the process of graduating. 2:18:55.360 --> 2:18:57.760 They had been living in Kuwait, but for a variety 2:18:57.800 --> 2:18:59.720 of weak reasons, especially the fact that they were not 2:18:59.760 --> 2:19:01.959 st She was like, I'm not going to be able 2:19:01.959 --> 2:19:04.879 to go into medicine in Kuwait. His daughter seems to 2:19:04.920 --> 2:19:08.080 be a very gifted medical student, and so they moved 2:19:08.160 --> 2:19:11.320 here and she got into a medical school. And in fact, 2:19:11.360 --> 2:19:13.760 he seems to have waited to carry out his attack 2:19:13.879 --> 2:19:17.880 until her graduation, like he wanted her to be started 2:19:17.920 --> 2:19:20.320 on her path to becoming a doctor before he carried 2:19:20.360 --> 2:19:22.400 out this attack. I think, both in the hope that 2:19:22.480 --> 2:19:25.480 it would protect her and she wouldn't get forced out 2:19:25.520 --> 2:19:28.280 of the country, which we'll talk about in a little bit, 2:19:28.560 --> 2:19:30.120 and I think probably just because easier to dad and 2:19:30.120 --> 2:19:32.879 he wanted to see her graduate, right. But then he 2:19:32.920 --> 2:19:35.360 carries out this attack. His family does not seem to 2:19:35.360 --> 2:19:38.119 have known. He basically left some messages for them as 2:19:38.160 --> 2:19:41.160 he left to carry it out. His wife took his 2:19:41.360 --> 2:19:44.800 phone into the authorities, which I read as her being like, 2:19:45.360 --> 2:19:47.880 I'm at this point trying to do whatever I can 2:19:48.000 --> 2:19:51.240 to make the government less likely to prosecute the rest 2:19:51.280 --> 2:19:54.960 of my family. Like he's a writer, right, Like he 2:19:55.240 --> 2:19:57.800 like like I can't be concerned about him. Right, I've 2:19:57.840 --> 2:19:58.879 got kids, you know. 2:19:59.480 --> 2:20:02.600 Like potential trying to stop anything else happening. If he 2:20:02.720 --> 2:20:04.640 was you know, like maybe he had other people who'd 2:20:04.680 --> 2:20:06.360 been playing this with who are planning other things. 2:20:06.520 --> 2:20:08.760 Right, she doesn't know did he build a bomb? 2:20:08.879 --> 2:20:10.280 Right, she has no idea. Yeah. 2:20:10.320 --> 2:20:12.640 I should also note here that when he was planning 2:20:12.720 --> 2:20:15.480 this attack, he initially planned to do a shooting. He 2:20:15.520 --> 2:20:17.840 took a concealed carry class, or at least he told 2:20:17.879 --> 2:20:19.760 investigators he took a concealed carry class. 2:20:19.800 --> 2:20:19.879 Right. 2:20:19.920 --> 2:20:21.200 He could be lying about some of this. This is 2:20:21.200 --> 2:20:22.199 what the police are reported. 2:20:22.280 --> 2:20:24.800 Yeah, but he took a concealed carry class. But he 2:20:24.840 --> 2:20:27.160 was not able to buy a gun. The AP News 2:20:27.240 --> 2:20:30.320 article says was denied because he's not a legal US citizen. 2:20:30.760 --> 2:20:32.400 You don't have to be a citizen to buy a gun. Yeah, 2:20:32.440 --> 2:20:34.039 that's not correct, But you do have to be in 2:20:34.080 --> 2:20:36.120 the country legally, right, Like you do not have to 2:20:36.120 --> 2:20:38.120 be a citizen to purchase guns in this country, but 2:20:38.200 --> 2:20:39.600 you do have to be illegal. 2:20:39.879 --> 2:20:41.680 I think you have to be a resident, like certain 2:20:41.800 --> 2:20:44.720 visa categories. There's a number of ways to get a gun. 2:20:44.720 --> 2:20:47.000 Whim not a citizen, but he was not able to yeah, 2:20:47.040 --> 2:20:50.080 and thank goodness, right, Like it's horrifying, Like obviously burning 2:20:50.080 --> 2:20:53.040 people is horrifying. Like the injuries that these people suffered 2:20:53.040 --> 2:20:56.400 are pretty are deeply like there's no pleasant burn injury. 2:20:56.840 --> 2:20:57.600 But people would have. 2:20:57.640 --> 2:21:00.320 Just died if he'd shot them, right, Like, Yeah, that's 2:21:00.440 --> 2:21:01.760 just the reality of the situation. 2:21:02.160 --> 2:21:04.680 That's already happened in Boulder once, like Bulder had a 2:21:04.720 --> 2:21:07.040 mass shooting at a supermarket right now, so long ago. 2:21:07.280 --> 2:21:10.000 Yeah, so that's the that's that's the bones of what 2:21:10.080 --> 2:21:11.160 happened here now. 2:21:11.200 --> 2:21:14.480 I mean, having this like less than a week after 2:21:14.680 --> 2:21:17.959 the Embassy shooting is pretty notable. 2:21:17.600 --> 2:21:18.000 Not great. 2:21:18.480 --> 2:21:22.240 Yeah, speaks to the contagion way these kinds of things spread. 2:21:22.040 --> 2:21:22.840 Right exactly. 2:21:22.920 --> 2:21:25.160 Mean las last week we talked about how like this 2:21:25.320 --> 2:21:29.720 displays into like media that only benefits the actions at 2:21:29.800 --> 2:21:32.560 Israel's continuing to take and how much a media attention 2:21:32.879 --> 2:21:35.400 was going towards the shooting and like the immediate aftermath. 2:21:35.720 --> 2:21:37.960 And something that I found a little bit interesting is 2:21:38.200 --> 2:21:42.000 how fast that story kind of went away, which which 2:21:42.080 --> 2:21:45.000 I wasn't really expecting. I thought it would it would 2:21:45.240 --> 2:21:47.840 they would be you know, relevant for a little bit longer. 2:21:47.879 --> 2:21:49.800 People try to keep it relevant for a little bit longer. 2:21:49.959 --> 2:21:51.440 I think part of the reason why maybe it went 2:21:51.440 --> 2:21:54.000 away faster than what we thought is so that it 2:21:54.040 --> 2:21:57.760 would not encourage like copycat attacks, and that still seems 2:21:57.760 --> 2:21:59.920 to happen to a degree. And I mean it's sounds 2:21:59.920 --> 2:22:02.440 like this guy was planning something for a little bit long, yess. 2:22:02.600 --> 2:22:05.560 But certainly having that other shooting in a close time 2:22:05.600 --> 2:22:07.360 proximity is notable. 2:22:07.879 --> 2:22:11.120 Yeah, I mean, the unfortunate reality is that, like, I'm 2:22:11.120 --> 2:22:14.160 sure there's someone else, multiple other people who have been 2:22:14.160 --> 2:22:17.600 planning for different periods of time, other kinds of attacks, 2:22:17.680 --> 2:22:20.160 and we will continue to see stuff like this happen. 2:22:20.280 --> 2:22:20.480 Right. 2:22:20.959 --> 2:22:25.160 Some of this is when something as terrible as the 2:22:25.240 --> 2:22:27.880 jatocide happening in Gaza is happening on a small screen 2:22:27.920 --> 2:22:30.080 in front of your face, and you are consuming hours 2:22:30.120 --> 2:22:33.440 of the curated worst footage of it every day. People 2:22:33.520 --> 2:22:36.080 are going to react, and they're not always going to 2:22:36.080 --> 2:22:40.080 react in the most like thoughtful way. Sometimes they're going 2:22:40.120 --> 2:22:42.800 to make a bunch of fucking fire bombs and attack 2:22:42.879 --> 2:22:45.720 a group of people who there's not really any argument 2:22:45.760 --> 2:22:47.760 that these particular groups of people. 2:22:47.640 --> 2:22:51.400 Had any at any influence, any any material consequence. 2:22:50.959 --> 2:22:53.080 Any power in the Israeli government, but. 2:22:54.040 --> 2:22:55.560 One of them's a Holocaust survivor, and. 2:22:55.720 --> 2:22:58.600 People are going to take irrational, terrible action that's just 2:22:58.640 --> 2:23:00.680 going to happen, you know, breaks people. 2:23:00.800 --> 2:23:05.120 Yeah, kind of prolonged vicarious trauma especially is not good 2:23:05.120 --> 2:23:05.400 for you. 2:23:05.560 --> 2:23:07.200 I think a lot of this loan Wolf attack is 2:23:07.280 --> 2:23:11.560 almost a way that people like cope with themselves after 2:23:11.879 --> 2:23:14.560 watching this thing unfold on your screen, right, and then 2:23:14.680 --> 2:23:16.080 as a response. 2:23:15.720 --> 2:23:17.840 I have to do something, is what he said, right, Like, 2:23:17.879 --> 2:23:19.119 I'm never gonna be able to live with myself. 2:23:19.160 --> 2:23:20.160 I do something. 2:23:20.280 --> 2:23:23.000 And then as a response, you use the violence of 2:23:23.000 --> 2:23:24.800 a gun to carve your name into history. 2:23:25.400 --> 2:23:29.240 And yeah, as someone who did something, I did something. Yeah, 2:23:29.320 --> 2:23:33.000 this is this is something and you know it's. 2:23:32.959 --> 2:23:35.680 It's it's it's bad, like it just has it's just 2:23:35.800 --> 2:23:37.800 some number of people. This is how they're they're going 2:23:37.879 --> 2:23:41.400 to react, and to an extent I don't know, I 2:23:41.440 --> 2:23:44.120 don't know how you seek to stop this. You know, 2:23:44.240 --> 2:23:47.200 the authorities have have like confirmed this guy was not 2:23:47.200 --> 2:23:50.760 on anyone's watch list. I'm sure neither will the next 2:23:50.800 --> 2:23:54.120 guy or gal who does something right like this is 2:23:54.120 --> 2:23:56.480 the world quite quite frankly, this is in part the 2:23:56.480 --> 2:23:59.240 world the Internet has made, right, Yeah, not that, not 2:23:59.320 --> 2:24:01.680 that it would be good if horrifying footage of the 2:24:01.720 --> 2:24:05.440 genocide and Gaza wasn't getting out to people. But like, 2:24:05.480 --> 2:24:08.119 this isn't the first time we have watched a series 2:24:08.160 --> 2:24:12.560 of attacks carried out and copy attacks and copycat attacks 2:24:12.600 --> 2:24:15.560 like carried out and spread as a result of things 2:24:15.560 --> 2:24:18.160 that are spreading in digital media, right, Like this is 2:24:18.160 --> 2:24:20.720 a This is like a thing that's happened over and 2:24:20.800 --> 2:24:23.560 over again. This is just kind of how the internet 2:24:23.680 --> 2:24:25.480 and radical violence works well. 2:24:25.480 --> 2:24:26.640 And it's one of those things where like, you know, 2:24:26.680 --> 2:24:28.280 there is a clear way to end the violence, which 2:24:28.320 --> 2:24:30.199 is to end the genocide, which is the other benefit 2:24:30.240 --> 2:24:33.119 of ending the genocide. But these people have no interest 2:24:33.160 --> 2:24:33.400 in that. 2:24:33.520 --> 2:24:35.400 No, these people, and I don't I don't know how 2:24:35.440 --> 2:24:39.000 to write like like like I don't like if you're asking, like, well, 2:24:39.000 --> 2:24:40.640 how do we end the genocide? Where like I guess 2:24:40.720 --> 2:24:43.920 you could get the entire international community to stop trading 2:24:44.000 --> 2:24:46.680 or selling weapons to Israel and also blockade the country, 2:24:46.680 --> 2:24:47.920 but like, well, then how do we do that? 2:24:47.959 --> 2:24:50.440 They're not god a right, Like I can't I can't 2:24:50.440 --> 2:24:50.840 make them. 2:24:50.879 --> 2:24:54.640 I can't make the US shoot down Israeli missiles or aircraft, 2:24:54.680 --> 2:24:56.560 Like I don't have the ability to like yell our 2:24:56.600 --> 2:24:57.680 government into doing that. 2:24:58.560 --> 2:25:01.160 Yeah, it's how do you write as a person potentially 2:25:01.200 --> 2:25:04.720 a person who's isolating. I don't know, man, If this 2:25:04.760 --> 2:25:08.240 person isn't part of a community, right, I hasn't found community? 2:25:08.320 --> 2:25:10.400 Like processing that trauma and feeling like you have to 2:25:10.480 --> 2:25:13.039 do something, some people's brains will break in a way 2:25:13.080 --> 2:25:16.400 that leads to violence. Yeah, I want to talk about 2:25:16.760 --> 2:25:20.920 state violence now, if that's okay, because I think, look, 2:25:21.080 --> 2:25:23.039 what he did was fucked up and wrong, and no 2:25:23.040 --> 2:25:25.600 one should obviously be firebombing Holocaust survival. I think that's 2:25:25.600 --> 2:25:28.560 something we can agree on. What has happened to his 2:25:28.640 --> 2:25:32.360 family is also wrong, right, like it you shouldn't be 2:25:32.360 --> 2:25:34.400 punished for being related to someone who did a bad thing. 2:25:34.520 --> 2:25:37.240 And oh god, and this is yeah, this is also horrifying. Yeah. 2:25:37.400 --> 2:25:41.119 Yeah, the whole thing is a story of like collateral damage. 2:25:41.480 --> 2:25:45.520 Yeah, so the White House on four twelve PM on 2:25:45.560 --> 2:25:50.959 the third of June, tweeted zeated just In Colon the 2:25:51.000 --> 2:25:54.039 wife and five children of illegal alien Mohammed Solomon, the 2:25:54.080 --> 2:25:56.880 suspect in the anti Semitic fire bombing of Jewish Americans 2:25:57.200 --> 2:26:01.760 have been captured, captured and are now in ice custody 2:26:01.800 --> 2:26:05.440 for expedited removal. Next part is in block capitals. They 2:26:05.440 --> 2:26:09.000 could be deported as early as tonight. This is heartbreaking, 2:26:09.080 --> 2:26:13.520 right again, Like we've talked about habeas before, but the 2:26:13.600 --> 2:26:17.880 foundation of everything that legal systems based on English common 2:26:18.000 --> 2:26:20.600 law hold is you have to have evidence that the 2:26:20.640 --> 2:26:22.720 person did something wrong, not that they're related to the 2:26:22.760 --> 2:26:25.720 person who did something wrong. Right. You know, Robert and 2:26:25.800 --> 2:26:28.920 I are both intimately familiar at least you know. I've 2:26:29.000 --> 2:26:32.320 received calls from young people in Burma who we've interviewed, 2:26:32.320 --> 2:26:36.200 whose families have been captured because of their participation in 2:26:36.200 --> 2:26:38.080 the revolution, and like, yeah, this is not a part 2:26:38.120 --> 2:26:39.879 of you. I should be going down. I want to 2:26:39.920 --> 2:26:44.080 explain very briefly what expedited removal is, because I have 2:26:44.160 --> 2:26:46.720 seen some shit that suggests maybe folks don't understand it. 2:26:46.760 --> 2:26:49.880 That's fine, It's complicated. So expetitive removal is supposed to 2:26:49.879 --> 2:26:52.320 be reserved for people who arrive at a land border 2:26:52.520 --> 2:26:57.440 port of entry or EWI. EWIE is an acronym entering 2:26:57.520 --> 2:27:01.000 without inspection that means entering between imports of entry right 2:27:01.800 --> 2:27:05.000 over the wall. Under the wall over the beach. What 2:27:05.160 --> 2:27:07.920 have you? Right entering without going through a port of 2:27:08.080 --> 2:27:10.240 entry and they're supposed to have been here for less 2:27:10.240 --> 2:27:13.960 than two years. The Trump administration has been massively expanding 2:27:13.959 --> 2:27:18.160 the use of expected to removal recently. Why they're doing 2:27:18.200 --> 2:27:20.520 this is because in an expected to removal proceeding, lower 2:27:20.600 --> 2:27:24.120 level immigration officials can remove people without them seeing a judge. 2:27:24.720 --> 2:27:28.600 Those people can still make a credible fear claim, which 2:27:28.600 --> 2:27:30.840 has to be assessed by an asylum officer and then 2:27:30.879 --> 2:27:34.000 approved by a judge. But this is a lot harder 2:27:34.120 --> 2:27:36.520 right than then going through the asylum process, and they 2:27:36.520 --> 2:27:40.000 have to prove beyond reasonable doubt. I guess I think 2:27:40.040 --> 2:27:42.040 it's a reasonable fear frame. I think incredible fear is 2:27:42.040 --> 2:27:44.880 a highest standard for another removal praceeding that they are 2:27:44.959 --> 2:27:46.840 likely to be tortured by the government or with the 2:27:46.840 --> 2:27:49.920 acquiescence of their government if they're sent home. Right, its 2:27:50.440 --> 2:27:52.879 use had previously peaked with one hundred and ninety seven 2:27:52.959 --> 2:27:55.760 cases in twenty thirteen that was under a Bama right 2:27:56.400 --> 2:27:59.280 and surprisingly didn't see people writing about it. Then it 2:27:59.360 --> 2:28:03.119 was used even more extensively by the Biden administration, especially 2:28:03.320 --> 2:28:07.720 in twenty twenty four, with Biden passed his asylum ban 2:28:08.040 --> 2:28:11.680 right by executive order. The first Trump administration did use it. 2:28:11.760 --> 2:28:14.480 They used it in a more broad range of cases, 2:28:14.560 --> 2:28:17.080 but they didn't use it in as many cases as 2:28:17.160 --> 2:28:21.400 either the Obama or the Biden administration. Right expertited removal 2:28:21.480 --> 2:28:25.240 is supposed to be for the most serious cases, for 2:28:25.879 --> 2:28:29.680 things where the person is a threat or a danger, 2:28:29.800 --> 2:28:31.560 or for other reasons need to be removed quickly. It 2:28:31.640 --> 2:28:34.720 was never designed. It was passed in I think in 2:28:34.760 --> 2:28:37.840 the early two thousands to first decade of this century. 2:28:37.920 --> 2:28:42.960 It was never supposed to be used like this, right, Robert, 2:28:43.000 --> 2:28:44.840 you mentioned these people had entered the United States in 2:28:44.840 --> 2:28:46.160 twenty twenty three, I think. 2:28:46.480 --> 2:28:49.880 Twenty twenty two, and then he got a visa two 2:28:49.959 --> 2:28:52.039 year visa to work. In twenty twenty three, the entered 2:28:52.120 --> 2:28:53.280 on a tourist visa. 2:28:53.360 --> 2:28:56.960 Essentially, Yeah, they're not within that two year window. Right 2:28:57.600 --> 2:29:00.640 to the extent that that matters, I don't know. So 2:29:00.680 --> 2:29:04.160 they will now, having done nothing wrong in the case 2:29:04.160 --> 2:29:06.560 of his wife, having attempted to cooperate with law enforcement 2:29:06.640 --> 2:29:09.840 to stop her husband or anyone with him hurting anyone else, 2:29:10.360 --> 2:29:13.880 they will be detained in the nice detention center. They 2:29:13.920 --> 2:29:16.320 will have to make a claim of credible fear right. 2:29:16.400 --> 2:29:18.840 They will have to say it is dangerous for you 2:29:18.920 --> 2:29:21.400 to send us back. I presume that citizenship is Egyptian, 2:29:21.440 --> 2:29:23.360 so I presume they will be sent there. That's a 2:29:23.480 --> 2:29:27.280 very high hurdle for them to clear. And I mean, 2:29:27.320 --> 2:29:29.640 I'm sure that there are national immigration nonprofits who are 2:29:29.680 --> 2:29:32.480 willing to fight their case because the abuse of expert 2:29:32.560 --> 2:29:35.760 to removal in the last two years, to be very clear, 2:29:36.160 --> 2:29:42.000 by dedministration as well, has seriously undermined the due process 2:29:42.080 --> 2:29:45.400 rights of migrants. But this is still a further step, 2:29:45.560 --> 2:29:49.120 at a significant step in removing those So I'm going 2:29:49.120 --> 2:29:50.680 to follow this case. I'm sure i'll update you on 2:29:50.720 --> 2:29:52.880 it next week. I also just want to note that 2:29:53.560 --> 2:29:56.640 this has dominated a news cycle. Yesterday, twenty seven people 2:29:56.680 --> 2:30:00.160 were killed in Gaza attempting to obtain humanitarian aid. The 2:30:00.240 --> 2:30:04.160 IDF is still denying that. I don't really care that 2:30:04.280 --> 2:30:07.360 the Red Cross, as well as health authorities in gard 2:30:07.360 --> 2:30:09.760 they have confound that twenty seven people were killed en 2:30:09.879 --> 2:30:13.240 route to one of the humanitarians or the humanitarian aid 2:30:13.240 --> 2:30:15.680 distribution point where they've concentrated it. In the sudden end 2:30:15.680 --> 2:30:18.040 of the Guard the Trip. We will have an episode 2:30:18.120 --> 2:30:21.160 on Palestine next week. I don't want one person's kind 2:30:21.200 --> 2:30:24.720 of stupid action to overshadow the killing of many more 2:30:24.760 --> 2:30:27.040 people and that tragic loss of life. Right so, I 2:30:27.080 --> 2:30:28.640 don't think that we won't be covering that. We will. 2:30:29.040 --> 2:30:32.800 What we will also be doing is pivoting to advertisements 2:30:32.879 --> 2:30:33.520 right now. 2:30:33.480 --> 2:30:49.320 That's right, baby, Let me let me maybe get up 2:30:49.360 --> 2:30:50.120 my guacamole. 2:30:50.760 --> 2:30:52.040 Fucking algorithms of it? 2:30:53.520 --> 2:30:55.119 How could it becomes a joker? 2:30:57.000 --> 2:30:59.200 Is that the pivot to the Yeah? 2:30:59.280 --> 2:31:04.119 Okay, yeah, yeah, oh god, okay, let's let's talk about 2:31:04.240 --> 2:31:05.040 Taco Trump. 2:31:05.120 --> 2:31:10.640 Who oh yeah, finally, finally, get out your hot, get 2:31:10.680 --> 2:31:13.760 out your block, let's go Taco Trump party. 2:31:14.480 --> 2:31:17.120 If you're doing getting full DNC style, pick a slightly 2:31:17.200 --> 2:31:22.480 racist Mexican costume or somethink I guess, like so many many. 2:31:22.360 --> 2:31:26.160 Years ago, I was, I was a professional StarCraft two fan, 2:31:26.840 --> 2:31:29.119 and this meant that I was exposed a gunguan style 2:31:29.320 --> 2:31:33.039 a full two weeks before everyone else. And this was 2:31:33.080 --> 2:31:36.560 my experience with Taco because I started hearing this from 2:31:36.560 --> 2:31:39.680 like financial news outlets, and like my friend Vicky was 2:31:39.720 --> 2:31:41.640 sending me things. They're like, yeah, they came up with 2:31:41.680 --> 2:31:43.879 this thing, they're calling it taco, and then like four 2:31:43.959 --> 2:31:46.440 days later, all of the like regular news outlet's caught 2:31:46.480 --> 2:31:48.040 up to it. And I didn't want to say ship 2:31:48.080 --> 2:31:48.520 in the nation. 2:31:48.959 --> 2:31:50.920 May I liked it before it was cool. 2:31:51.560 --> 2:31:55.640 So Taco is this like unbelievable delusion that the finance 2:31:55.720 --> 2:31:59.480 people have had to like like program into their brains 2:31:59.480 --> 2:32:03.000 in order to like keep themselves from believing their own 2:32:03.040 --> 2:32:07.080 eyes about what's happening with the economy. So Taco stands 2:32:07.120 --> 2:32:10.320 for Trump always chickens out. And it's these people's belief 2:32:10.400 --> 2:32:12.959 that Trump will like always inevitably in the end back. 2:32:12.840 --> 2:32:13.600 Down from the terrace. 2:32:13.600 --> 2:32:15.680 And I've been seeing this a lot, right, Like I'm 2:32:15.720 --> 2:32:19.000 seeing this some people who are like who's analysis I respect? 2:32:19.360 --> 2:32:21.400 Who are talking about how like, yeah, the structural conditions 2:32:21.440 --> 2:32:23.200 of the economy are saus the Trump will always be 2:32:23.200 --> 2:32:26.120 forced to like roll the terariffs back. And then it's like, okay, 2:32:26.520 --> 2:32:29.440 like the fifty percent deal tariff, what did you affect 2:32:29.480 --> 2:32:30.600 like today? 2:32:30.840 --> 2:32:34.720 Right Like I I don't know, I'm gonna get some kumi. Oh, 2:32:34.720 --> 2:32:37.400 I'm gonna get some coriander. We're gonna mix that up. 2:32:38.560 --> 2:32:41.680 Oh god, Yo, this is a financial thing, right, This 2:32:41.760 --> 2:32:43.959 is the thing that like all the day traders like 2:32:44.080 --> 2:32:45.960 have to convince themselves in order to keep the stock 2:32:46.000 --> 2:32:46.600 marketing going. 2:32:46.720 --> 2:32:49.000 Yeah that like, no, no, no, it's gonna be fine. 2:32:49.280 --> 2:32:51.680 This is a magic spell that's being like waved over 2:32:51.720 --> 2:32:53.879 the economy to keep it kind of holding together. 2:32:53.959 --> 2:32:56.800 Yeah, they're like, whooh, it's gonna be fine. Ignore the 2:32:56.800 --> 2:32:59.560 thirty percent tariffs, So all Chinese goods, ignore the terriffs 2:32:59.560 --> 2:33:01.959 of the Yeah, fifty percent steel turf. 2:33:02.040 --> 2:33:06.320 Today, you might say, these economists are saying to Reef, 2:33:06.840 --> 2:33:07.600 we don't like it. 2:33:08.000 --> 2:33:19.840 Sorry, locking jazz bomb, rocket jazz Bot, Sorry, locking, locking 2:33:20.200 --> 2:33:23.000 jazz bomb, rocky jazz Bob. 2:33:24.800 --> 2:33:27.080 God, we had to make up for it. Garrison wouldn't 2:33:27.120 --> 2:33:27.720 let us last time. 2:33:27.760 --> 2:33:30.320 I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I know the royalties are getting 2:33:30.320 --> 2:33:30.680 too much. 2:33:30.720 --> 2:33:32.800 I took an entire week's pay cut so that we 2:33:32.840 --> 2:33:34.240 could pay back the royalty. 2:33:34.640 --> 2:33:37.600 Now, now, the good news is everybody we did manage 2:33:37.640 --> 2:33:40.600 to work out a new healthcare plan for everybody. It 2:33:40.720 --> 2:33:42.600 is the next time you need to go to a doctor, 2:33:42.920 --> 2:33:46.600 there will be an unmarked car with a loaded thirty 2:33:46.640 --> 2:33:50.360 eight special in the glove box. So it is a 2:33:50.400 --> 2:33:54.400 step up from United Healthcare. We we've actually significantly improved things, 2:33:56.760 --> 2:33:57.359 that's true. 2:33:57.200 --> 2:33:59.360 And I'm actually taking to pay for a year so 2:33:59.400 --> 2:34:01.720 we can do a a white riot, which is just 2:34:01.760 --> 2:34:04.240 white genocide. It's about the genocide of the of the 2:34:04.280 --> 2:34:05.160 ball people. 2:34:05.920 --> 2:34:09.360 Real and so okay, speaking of United Health one of 2:34:09.440 --> 2:34:11.400 these tarriffs that all these people have convinced themselves is 2:34:11.480 --> 2:34:13.800 not going to happen is the pharmaceutical tariffs, which are 2:34:13.879 --> 2:34:18.440 still like coming, right. But what sort of happened with 2:34:18.560 --> 2:34:21.720 this taco shit, right is the Democrats were like, Okay, 2:34:22.080 --> 2:34:26.400 I have found a way to criticize Trump. 2:34:26.120 --> 2:34:30.080 That is racist. They're all just calling him like that. 2:34:30.200 --> 2:34:33.160 Also does it actually critique his policies like they're they're 2:34:33.200 --> 2:34:35.240 calling him taco and Trump in relation to like the 2:34:35.280 --> 2:34:36.640 negotiations with Iran. 2:34:37.000 --> 2:34:39.039 Yeah yeah, shit that he should chicken out of it. 2:34:39.040 --> 2:34:40.440 It's good if he doesn't do it. 2:34:40.680 --> 2:34:44.240 Yeah yeah, Like I'm watching them do like like fucking 2:34:44.320 --> 2:34:47.160 Chuck Schumer is out here tweeting about how Biden deported 2:34:47.200 --> 2:34:49.200 more people than Trump did, and like the thing that 2:34:49.240 --> 2:34:52.480 this reminds me of the most is like the Chavez 2:34:52.520 --> 2:34:56.160 era of Venezuelan opposition, where every single year they would 2:34:56.160 --> 2:34:58.680 haul some dipshit out and their platform was like I'm 2:34:58.680 --> 2:35:01.680 gonna do Travizel better than and every single year they 2:35:01.680 --> 2:35:04.480 would lose by forty points. And it's like the Democrats 2:35:04.520 --> 2:35:07.920 are like those guys, those people are real fucking winners. 2:35:08.040 --> 2:35:11.320 We're going to adopt every single one of his platforms 2:35:11.360 --> 2:35:13.280 and then we're gonna run on he's not doing it 2:35:13.320 --> 2:35:15.600 well enough, and then we're gonna get fucking annihilated in 2:35:15.640 --> 2:35:18.680 every single election until like democratic process itself simply ceases 2:35:18.720 --> 2:35:20.560 to exist and this will be good. 2:35:20.360 --> 2:35:25.760 For us somehow. This is just it's pure cope. 2:35:25.840 --> 2:35:29.400 Like the entire our entire economy is being supported by 2:35:29.520 --> 2:35:32.080 the just collective delusion that these people have built. But 2:35:32.160 --> 2:35:34.240 they fucked up right. And the thing about Taco and 2:35:34.240 --> 2:35:35.920 think I remember from like the first time I heard 2:35:35.920 --> 2:35:39.119 about this, it was like, if this gets out, these 2:35:39.160 --> 2:35:41.800 people are fucked because Trump is going to see this 2:35:42.120 --> 2:35:44.840 and it is going to piss him off and he's 2:35:44.879 --> 2:35:47.160 going to like like now that it's like the democratic thing, 2:35:47.160 --> 2:35:48.600 it's like no, no, no, Like the next the next 2:35:48.640 --> 2:35:51.760 series of terrorists is scheduled to come off. Is I'm 2:35:51.760 --> 2:35:53.920 pretty sure that China won in like the beginning of 2:35:53.959 --> 2:35:55.440 July could have. 2:35:55.480 --> 2:35:56.880 The math wrong. 2:35:56.920 --> 2:35:58.160 I don't know, I hate math, I prob but I'm 2:35:58.160 --> 2:35:59.200 pretty sure that's the next one. 2:35:59.560 --> 2:36:01.360 I mean, it's it's this is the thing that I'm 2:36:01.400 --> 2:36:03.760 still like questioning about, and like we've talked talk abouts before, 2:36:03.879 --> 2:36:06.480 is like one of those thirty d deadlines for tariffs 2:36:06.480 --> 2:36:10.160 on Canada and Mexico expired. Yeah, he just forgot about 2:36:10.160 --> 2:36:12.280 that one and no one was keeping count or they 2:36:12.280 --> 2:36:15.279 were like distracted, like I think specifically they were putting 2:36:15.280 --> 2:36:17.960 in some like European Union like tariffs like like that 2:36:18.120 --> 2:36:20.440 day and then just nothing like happy Yeah, And like 2:36:20.600 --> 2:36:23.280 I am wondering how much of that is, Like he's 2:36:23.320 --> 2:36:25.840 just gonna announce tariffs, put them on hold, and then 2:36:25.920 --> 2:36:29.000 just forget about them, but still announce new different tariffs 2:36:29.040 --> 2:36:31.760 in the future that may cover some of the same stuff. 2:36:32.000 --> 2:36:33.840 Well, so here's the thing. Here's the thing. 2:36:33.879 --> 2:36:36.320 I some of these you remember, something doesn't because so 2:36:36.320 --> 2:36:38.800 so the steel tariff doubled from twenty five to fifty, right, 2:36:38.800 --> 2:36:39.760 and that one of the. 2:36:39.720 --> 2:36:40.520 Rolling date ones. 2:36:40.600 --> 2:36:40.720 Right. 2:36:40.920 --> 2:36:42.920 Yeah, So I think it's it's like there are some 2:36:43.080 --> 2:36:45.480 that he like cares about and there are some that 2:36:45.520 --> 2:36:46.320 he kind of doesn't. 2:36:46.320 --> 2:36:47.959 I mean I feel the same way when I'm getting 2:36:48.000 --> 2:36:51.160 tacos like pork tacos, No, thank you, fish tacos. 2:36:51.200 --> 2:36:55.120 Maybe I don't. I don't endor Scarceon's opinion on tacos. 2:36:55.480 --> 2:36:59.120 This, this taco Trump shit is like I long for 2:36:59.200 --> 2:37:02.920 the days of orn Man bad dr was better than this. 2:37:02.920 --> 2:37:06.000 This is this is the worst it's ever been, Like, 2:37:06.840 --> 2:37:09.480 oh god, get give me comedians cutting his head off 2:37:09.520 --> 2:37:11.760 live on stage again, Like sure. 2:37:11.600 --> 2:37:13.120 Yes, that was fine. 2:37:13.240 --> 2:37:15.880 This is just like, what what are we doing here? 2:37:16.200 --> 2:37:16.920 Oh my god? 2:37:17.160 --> 2:37:20.080 Yeah, I mean it's really tough because cilantro prices are 2:37:20.120 --> 2:37:22.320 gonna spike to these tariffs too, so I mean we 2:37:22.360 --> 2:37:23.680 can't even call them talk about. 2:37:23.520 --> 2:37:27.039 It's okay, you know, Garrett Garrison, that's actually just good politics, 2:37:27.160 --> 2:37:30.400 right because some people have some people have a disability 2:37:30.400 --> 2:37:32.519 where they can't test taste cilantro. 2:37:32.680 --> 2:37:34.320 Not a disability. 2:37:36.000 --> 2:37:39.640 Associated with pre statements. I will not be canceled by this. 2:37:39.800 --> 2:37:42.080 I do not buy the cilantro gene. I don't think 2:37:42.120 --> 2:37:42.520 it's real. 2:37:42.760 --> 2:37:45.120 But you don't think the cilantro Oh my god, Okay, Okay, 2:37:45.480 --> 2:37:45.959 I don't think. 2:37:45.879 --> 2:37:46.480 It's a gene. 2:37:46.600 --> 2:37:50.080 It's just I don't think people without the cilant with 2:37:50.120 --> 2:37:52.160 the cilantro tastes bad gene. I don't know if we'd 2:37:52.200 --> 2:37:54.680 call them people right, if it tastes like soapid. 2:37:54.760 --> 2:37:56.360 I just don't know. I don't know. 2:37:56.440 --> 2:37:59.640 Talk talks with China have been breaking down. Both sides 2:37:59.640 --> 2:38:02.800 have been in each other of violating the agreement they 2:38:02.840 --> 2:38:04.600 had come to to roll the tariffs back, which they'd 2:38:04.600 --> 2:38:08.000 like both have. I believe both sides on that. Actually, Yeah, 2:38:08.160 --> 2:38:11.680 and again this comes to like the actual fundamental structural 2:38:11.680 --> 2:38:14.840 problem of this, which is that and I think this 2:38:14.879 --> 2:38:16.879 is why a lot of people think that everything will 2:38:16.879 --> 2:38:18.360 sort of eventually go back to normal and I'll try 2:38:18.400 --> 2:38:20.200 to just sort of like bluster like I did the 2:38:20.240 --> 2:38:24.200 first time. Is that like, Okay, again, Trump's actual goal here, 2:38:24.240 --> 2:38:26.120 which is to not have a trade deficit with China, 2:38:26.160 --> 2:38:30.720 is unachievable, right, There's nothing that can actually be done 2:38:30.959 --> 2:38:33.880 in order to do that, and there's no good way 2:38:33.920 --> 2:38:35.400 to claim victory either. 2:38:36.160 --> 2:38:38.080 And so what we're sort of escalating. 2:38:37.720 --> 2:38:39.920 Towards is July, like the one hundred and thirty percent 2:38:39.959 --> 2:38:42.720 of teriff sort of like coming coming. 2:38:42.440 --> 2:38:44.120 Back into effect. 2:38:44.520 --> 2:38:47.680 So people are building up I think this, like I 2:38:47.720 --> 2:38:50.440 don't know the sort of like psychological wall to the 2:38:50.480 --> 2:38:53.440 fact that this could happen again, and the fact that 2:38:53.680 --> 2:38:56.680 like these negotiations are breaking down, I think is just 2:38:56.760 --> 2:38:58.959 making it increasingly likely that it is just going. 2:38:58.800 --> 2:38:59.959 To explode again. 2:39:00.040 --> 2:39:03.600 The steel tariffs also are just a shit show for 2:39:03.680 --> 2:39:06.560 a whole bunch of different manufacturing sectors. It's very bad 2:39:06.560 --> 2:39:08.800 for US auto industry. There's already been a report on 2:39:08.840 --> 2:39:11.680 the effect of twenty five percent steel tariff has had 2:39:11.800 --> 2:39:15.720 on like on the construction industry. This has been tied 2:39:15.760 --> 2:39:17.600 into sort of like, oh yeah, the US is like 2:39:17.600 --> 2:39:19.440 not replenishing its housing stock because you. 2:39:19.360 --> 2:39:23.720 Know, but it's it's fucked. 2:39:23.800 --> 2:39:26.800 It's real bad. I don't I don't have a I 2:39:26.840 --> 2:39:29.760 don't know. I don't have a better thing to say 2:39:29.760 --> 2:39:31.520 about it than that, and that it's going to continue 2:39:31.560 --> 2:39:36.600 to get worse and at some points, probably the taco 2:39:36.720 --> 2:39:38.520 is going to be fucking over and people are going 2:39:38.560 --> 2:39:40.240 to realize that he's going to do this, and especially 2:39:40.240 --> 2:39:41.280 now they just pissed him off. 2:39:42.720 --> 2:39:45.760 Oh god, yeah, well what will they do then with 2:39:45.800 --> 2:39:47.040 their giant inflatable chicken. 2:39:49.400 --> 2:39:51.400 This is this is. 2:39:53.080 --> 2:39:55.039 The biggest limbrain stuff I've ever seen. 2:39:55.480 --> 2:39:58.600 I am I am living in a world where like 2:39:58.720 --> 2:40:01.039 a group chat that I make on signal when I 2:40:01.120 --> 2:40:03.800 was a manic last year has had more policy effect 2:40:03.920 --> 2:40:07.680 on like like preserving trans healthcare in that fucking budget 2:40:07.680 --> 2:40:10.240 build in the entire Democratic Party and they are spending 2:40:10.280 --> 2:40:15.720 their money fucking like holding out chicken, fucking chicken inflatable. 2:40:17.080 --> 2:40:19.680 Now, don't don't listen to me a Democrats. For just 2:40:19.760 --> 2:40:23.320 twenty million dollars, I will guarantee you the youth vote. 2:40:23.360 --> 2:40:24.360 Not a guarantee. 2:40:24.879 --> 2:40:28.120 I propose that we renamed this segment from tariff talk 2:40:28.240 --> 2:40:33.359 to Mia Molay the next I don't know twenty. 2:40:33.160 --> 2:40:35.240 Episots garrison as a Canadian? 2:40:35.280 --> 2:40:36.600 Are you allowed to use that word? 2:40:37.360 --> 2:40:41.920 Yeah, let's go on to that break. 2:40:43.280 --> 2:40:59.080 Before I lose my job. Okay, we are back. James 2:40:59.120 --> 2:41:01.800 stout me. What's been going on? 2:41:02.560 --> 2:41:05.879 Hey everyone, James, it's Thursday night here and I'm just 2:41:05.959 --> 2:41:08.440 recording a little pickup to update you that the Trump 2:41:08.480 --> 2:41:13.720 administration has issued another travel ban. This travel ban bans 2:41:13.760 --> 2:41:18.240 travel or bans all new visas for people from twelve countries. 2:41:18.280 --> 2:41:22.800 One of those is Myanmar, and travelers further restricted for 2:41:22.879 --> 2:41:26.160 seven other countries. There are exemptions people who are already 2:41:26.240 --> 2:41:29.279 in the country with a valid visa. There are exemptions 2:41:29.320 --> 2:41:34.000 for Afghan people have an SIV especial immigrant visa. There 2:41:34.000 --> 2:41:37.279 are other smaller exemptions for the Olympic Games and sporting 2:41:37.320 --> 2:41:39.560 events for example. We will do a whole episode on 2:41:39.600 --> 2:41:41.800 this because we need longer than we have to explain it. 2:41:41.840 --> 2:41:44.120 But I just wanted to make people aware that we 2:41:44.200 --> 2:41:46.720 are tracking that, planning on getting something out about it, 2:41:46.760 --> 2:41:49.200 but we don't have enough space in this episode or 2:41:49.240 --> 2:41:52.879 time to edit to address it in full. Today, Well, 2:41:52.920 --> 2:41:56.879 some things have been happening Garrison here in sunny San Diego. 2:41:56.760 --> 2:41:58.959 With from what I hear actually great tagos. 2:41:59.240 --> 2:42:01.560 Yes, tacos are actually very good in San Diego. Yes, oh, 2:42:01.600 --> 2:42:04.320 excellent tacos. Some of the best tacos in southern California. 2:42:04.360 --> 2:42:09.640 Which you saying something, Come and visit us, eat our tacos. 2:42:09.720 --> 2:42:13.680 Across the border, get some extended release Mexican tramadol. Let 2:42:13.680 --> 2:42:15.520 me know where you were anyway, continued jam. 2:42:15.560 --> 2:42:17.720 Or tacos whatever you want to want to get across 2:42:17.760 --> 2:42:23.119 the border. So ICE agents raided Buonafortetta, which is pizza 2:42:23.120 --> 2:42:25.680 place in South Park. I used to stay like just 2:42:25.760 --> 2:42:27.800 above here. I would get late night pizza there all 2:42:27.840 --> 2:42:29.480 the time when my job was riding my bike and 2:42:29.480 --> 2:42:32.920 my hobby was drinking at Hamilton's Rip, which was a 2:42:33.000 --> 2:42:36.360 craft bn next door. In this bungled raid, they entered 2:42:36.440 --> 2:42:38.800 drin in a late afternoon and the evening of Friday, 2:42:39.320 --> 2:42:42.280 and ice agents soon found themselves surrounded by an angry 2:42:42.280 --> 2:42:45.640 crowd at local people, patrons from the Vegan Small Plates 2:42:45.680 --> 2:42:49.480 cocktail place across the across the street, and the brewery 2:42:49.560 --> 2:42:52.640 it's now South Park Brewing, as well as folks from 2:42:52.640 --> 2:42:54.600 the neighborhood. Right, this is one of those neighborhoods that 2:42:54.680 --> 2:42:57.120 like South Park of the concept was kind of invented 2:42:57.120 --> 2:43:00.480 by real estate agents so that it wouldn't seem like 2:43:00.600 --> 2:43:02.240 Golden Hill or Bankers Hill, and it would have like 2:43:02.240 --> 2:43:04.680 a more upmarket branding. So you have these very nice 2:43:05.400 --> 2:43:07.200 bars and restaurants, but then you also have like a 2:43:07.280 --> 2:43:10.680 laundromaut on the corner, and like a like a food market, 2:43:10.760 --> 2:43:14.680 like a non chain supermarket that serves a primarily Latino 2:43:14.800 --> 2:43:17.240 clan tel. I would imagine it's one of these very 2:43:17.280 --> 2:43:21.480 sort of like class diverse neighborhoods, I guess. But people 2:43:21.560 --> 2:43:24.960 came out en mass. They surrounded these vehicles right, they 2:43:25.000 --> 2:43:28.920 were chanting let them go. ITTSI agents decided to defuse 2:43:28.920 --> 2:43:32.360 the situation by throwing flash banks and then leaving with 2:43:32.440 --> 2:43:36.760 four employees. I should add here that, as KPBS put it, quote, 2:43:36.760 --> 2:43:40.039 flashbanks were thrown, which is a cowardly use of the 2:43:40.080 --> 2:43:42.480 passive voice to obscure culpability. 2:43:42.520 --> 2:43:46.119 I think flash bangs spontaneously were deployed, right. 2:43:46.040 --> 2:43:49.600 Yeah, right, who can say, Garrison, maybe the people at 2:43:49.640 --> 2:43:52.240 the Death Metal Vegan restaurant bought the flash bangs. 2:43:52.320 --> 2:43:54.000 Well, and I also do want to say I have 2:43:54.080 --> 2:43:57.880 gotten word from some exclusive sources that these were actually 2:43:57.959 --> 2:44:01.400 secret militia members asperating as ICE agents. 2:44:01.640 --> 2:44:04.560 Yeah, let's just fucking address it because it's very silly. 2:44:04.840 --> 2:44:06.560 The understandable degree of it is that like. 2:44:06.520 --> 2:44:07.840 They are dressing like Proud Voice. 2:44:07.879 --> 2:44:11.560 They look exactly like Proud Boys in Portland in twenty nineteen, right, 2:44:11.640 --> 2:44:13.480 Like they are indistinguishable visually. 2:44:13.520 --> 2:44:16.600 Their uniform standards have like kind of gone away. They 2:44:16.680 --> 2:44:19.000 seem like they don't have standards anymore. Yes, and now 2:44:19.040 --> 2:44:21.760 they are just dressing like how Proud Voices and three 2:44:21.800 --> 2:44:23.199 Percenters used to dress. 2:44:23.640 --> 2:44:26.840 Yeah. So, like I think this kind of conspiracy theory 2:44:26.879 --> 2:44:30.080 stems from the initial MISI identification of the ginger ice 2:44:30.120 --> 2:44:33.880 agent who smashed someone's window as Michael Meyer a ka 2:44:33.959 --> 2:44:38.560 Lewis Arthur, who's the one of the veterans on patrol leaders. 2:44:39.080 --> 2:44:41.480 He was live streaming in Oklahoma at the time that 2:44:41.480 --> 2:44:44.480 that rate happened. It's not him, Yeah, it's just two 2:44:44.520 --> 2:44:47.280 people who are ginger that that is possible that there 2:44:47.320 --> 2:44:50.280 are lots of them. Then I've seen this in multiple 2:44:50.280 --> 2:44:54.120 other cases, often from the kind of more lib sky 2:44:54.200 --> 2:44:56.680 people you see on Blue Sky right, who seem unable 2:44:56.720 --> 2:44:59.120 to comprehend the fact that no, they are cops and 2:44:59.160 --> 2:45:02.640 they are doing evil and cops do evil shit, cops 2:45:02.640 --> 2:45:03.480 can do bad things. 2:45:03.520 --> 2:45:07.120 And now, yeah, cops are more likely, especially immigration officers, 2:45:07.560 --> 2:45:10.440 do not have their names on their kit. 2:45:10.800 --> 2:45:11.000 Yeah. 2:45:11.000 --> 2:45:13.320 And it's something that we saw like in Portland and 2:45:13.360 --> 2:45:15.400 twenty twenty and it was incredibly worrying. And now it's 2:45:15.440 --> 2:45:18.600 spreading all around the entire country to the point where 2:45:18.640 --> 2:45:21.720 most most like people enacting these raids are both hiding 2:45:21.720 --> 2:45:25.119 their identities and also obscuring what agencies they are actually 2:45:25.160 --> 2:45:28.720 like from, which is why people are like concerned that 2:45:28.800 --> 2:45:31.160 you like, what if these guys aren't even from the government. 2:45:31.520 --> 2:45:32.760 What if these are just like some kind of right 2:45:32.760 --> 2:45:35.240 wing militia, And yeah, with a little bit of checking 2:45:35.280 --> 2:45:37.880 you can usually tell that they are in fact from 2:45:38.040 --> 2:45:39.520 usually dhs. 2:45:39.760 --> 2:45:42.720 Yeah, I mean the California one was somewhat ridiculous, right, 2:45:42.760 --> 2:45:45.119 There is not an exemption to the California assault weapons 2:45:45.120 --> 2:45:47.360 ban for militias. These guys had guns, which would have 2:45:47.360 --> 2:45:50.160 been about four felonies each. Yees saying people don't do 2:45:50.240 --> 2:45:53.000 felony things they do, but you'd have to be a 2:45:53.000 --> 2:45:54.880 bit of a tool to just stand on the street 2:45:54.920 --> 2:45:57.600 with your felony select fire MPX. 2:45:58.000 --> 2:46:00.880 Part of this is a very and a lot of 2:46:00.959 --> 2:46:03.240 leftists fell for this too, But this is fundament mentally 2:46:03.320 --> 2:46:05.680 rooted in a liberal delusion, which is that the danger 2:46:06.000 --> 2:46:09.400 is unaccountable groups of civilians with guns, not the police. 2:46:09.680 --> 2:46:13.160 The danger is the cops. The danger has always been 2:46:13.240 --> 2:46:16.960 the cops. Yes, we need to push back on this, right, 2:46:17.040 --> 2:46:19.440 Like the prow Boys are not like the be all 2:46:19.480 --> 2:46:21.400 and end all of eve when I'm but they're. 2:46:21.240 --> 2:46:23.520 That's sure, of course, I've like, I've had my hand 2:46:23.600 --> 2:46:25.600 broken by one. I don't like them, but I'm not 2:46:25.640 --> 2:46:27.440 as scared of them as I am of just the 2:46:27.480 --> 2:46:28.480 cops like. 2:46:29.840 --> 2:46:31.480 Yeah, we need to push back on this because it 2:46:31.600 --> 2:46:34.480 fundamentally misidentifies the problem. And until these people wake up 2:46:34.520 --> 2:46:37.080 and realize that they're they'll going to respond in the 2:46:37.120 --> 2:46:37.840 correct manner. 2:46:37.959 --> 2:46:39.200 Yeah, And I mean, like, you know, one of the 2:46:39.240 --> 2:46:41.480 things that you can point out here is is like, yeah, 2:46:41.520 --> 2:46:44.920 there were a bunch of police in Nazi Germany, and 2:46:45.040 --> 2:46:48.000 the moment that they started carrying out the orders of 2:46:48.040 --> 2:46:50.320 the Nazi government, they became Nazis. 2:46:50.760 --> 2:46:51.800 Like that's that's. 2:46:51.640 --> 2:46:54.320 Just how this works, right, You'll get a pull a like, oh, 2:46:54.480 --> 2:46:56.920 I was just a whimart police guy, just enforcing the 2:46:56.959 --> 2:46:59.480 laws of the of the Nazi government. It's like, okay, 2:47:00.200 --> 2:47:02.680 you are, sir, you are a Nazi, and you are 2:47:02.680 --> 2:47:05.200 a Nazi because you are an agent of the Nazi state, 2:47:05.560 --> 2:47:08.000 not because you were like you know, you were like 2:47:08.080 --> 2:47:10.400 necessarily in some perimilitary or whatever, like. 2:47:10.920 --> 2:47:12.080 Yeah, a member of the party. 2:47:12.160 --> 2:47:13.920 Yeah, like that that's what happens when you work for 2:47:13.920 --> 2:47:16.039 a fascist state. So you're now a fascist. 2:47:16.680 --> 2:47:19.760 So in documents I've reviewed, I claimed that nineteen employees 2:47:19.760 --> 2:47:23.240 at a restaurant were using falsified green cards. They were 2:47:23.280 --> 2:47:25.600 acting on a tip from November twenty twenty and then 2:47:25.640 --> 2:47:28.480 they received a follow up tip in late January twenty 2:47:28.520 --> 2:47:32.240 twenty five. The tip claim that many of the staff 2:47:32.240 --> 2:47:36.400 at Buonaforta Jetta were undocumented, that the owner made them 2:47:36.400 --> 2:47:39.760 work long shifts and verbally abused them. I have seen 2:47:39.800 --> 2:47:43.480 no evidence that this is true beyond that claim. I've 2:47:43.640 --> 2:47:46.240 been to and past that restaurant hundreds of times. I've 2:47:46.240 --> 2:47:48.600 never seen anyone who looks sad to be there. But 2:47:48.640 --> 2:47:51.480 it doesn't mean that's not happening. But I've seen nothing 2:47:51.480 --> 2:47:53.840 to lead me to believe that it is beyond this claim. Right, 2:47:54.480 --> 2:47:58.080 HSI had been in communication with bonafort Jetta's lawyer since 2:47:58.200 --> 2:48:01.520 February and they had been cooperating. Right Like one offort 2:48:02.120 --> 2:48:04.640 had given them these documents, which they claim were fake 2:48:04.800 --> 2:48:08.000 green cards. They applied for this warrant, which they got 2:48:08.000 --> 2:48:10.920 an exceedingly broad warrant. One of the things that allow 2:48:11.080 --> 2:48:15.560 was for everyone inside to be detained and fingerprinted if necessary, 2:48:15.680 --> 2:48:19.720 even people who are not accused of any immigration offense, right, 2:48:19.760 --> 2:48:23.960 people who are United States citizens. The warrant also detailed 2:48:23.959 --> 2:48:27.880 that they had been surveiling the location. City councilman Shani 2:48:27.920 --> 2:48:30.840 La Riviera called the HSI agent terrorists. In a social 2:48:30.879 --> 2:48:34.160 media post, Bill Malougan got sad about this. Stephen Miller 2:48:34.240 --> 2:48:37.280 quote tweeted Bill Milligan getting sad about this. Top Luria 2:48:37.280 --> 2:48:40.359 came out with three paragraphs of total bullshit and continued 2:48:40.480 --> 2:48:43.240 to unabatteredly support stripping our city of all its socially 2:48:43.240 --> 2:48:46.080 beneficial services in order to direct a fire hose of 2:48:46.080 --> 2:48:48.960 our money to the cops, one of whom earned four 2:48:49.040 --> 2:48:52.959 hundred and thirty thousand dollars in twenty twenty three. Jesus 2:48:53.200 --> 2:48:58.080 what yep? Yeah, San Diego's highest paid public officials of 2:48:58.160 --> 2:49:01.680 cops by oh my god. Yeah, we are becoming a 2:49:01.680 --> 2:49:05.360 police department with a city attached because of Todd Gloria, 2:49:05.600 --> 2:49:08.640 someone who ran in twenty twenty on a reform agenda, right, 2:49:08.959 --> 2:49:11.160 who owns himself two hundred and fifty thousand much less. 2:49:11.200 --> 2:49:14.879 That's that's that's an unhit football coach takes, which is 2:49:15.959 --> 2:49:18.560 I thought that the Portland police were paid too much. 2:49:18.920 --> 2:49:23.279 That's that's wild. Yeah. Yeah, this person worked and alleged 2:49:23.480 --> 2:49:25.480 three thousand hours of overtime. 2:49:25.520 --> 2:49:29.920 I believe it's like what scrolling scrolling TikTok in your car, Like, 2:49:30.080 --> 2:49:30.600 come on. 2:49:30.600 --> 2:49:32.360 Keeping an eye, keeping an eye on kids. 2:49:32.440 --> 2:49:37.000 Yeah, yeah, you can't you you can't be three thousand hours. 2:49:37.080 --> 2:49:39.879 I mean someone could do three thousand divided by fifty 2:49:40.600 --> 2:49:43.120 fifty two weeks a year or whatever. Like it's it's 2:49:43.360 --> 2:49:45.480 it's an unfathomable amount of overtime. 2:49:46.240 --> 2:49:48.280 It's it's just fifty eight hours a week. 2:49:48.560 --> 2:49:52.400 Whoa, yeah, so that's full time plus one and a 2:49:52.440 --> 2:49:57.640 half full time jobs, hard worker. There's a KPBS article 2:49:57.680 --> 2:50:01.160 on it. I'll linking multiple police officers I guess in 2:50:01.200 --> 2:50:03.200 twenty twenty four are on track to earn over four 2:50:03.280 --> 2:50:05.720 hundred thousand dollars with the bulckit coming from overtime pay. 2:50:06.240 --> 2:50:12.000 San Diego never gets enough attention for being a complete 2:50:12.000 --> 2:50:14.680 shit show of a city, right Like and Ron by 2:50:14.680 --> 2:50:17.480 the Sea is the best way I've heard it described, right, Like, 2:50:17.560 --> 2:50:24.240 our city consistently has massive corruption in scandals and nothing happens. 2:50:24.360 --> 2:50:26.080 It's it's a problem when it a place. 2:50:26.200 --> 2:50:26.880 Is that nice? 2:50:27.240 --> 2:50:27.440 Right? 2:50:27.560 --> 2:50:27.800 Yeah? 2:50:27.840 --> 2:50:30.880 Like that's really the fundamental issue is like people were like, hey, 2:50:30.879 --> 2:50:33.240 do you hear about that fucked up thing the meritd Yeah, 2:50:33.280 --> 2:50:35.480 but like look at the look at the beach. 2:50:36.680 --> 2:50:40.039 Yeah, I mean that's yeah, that's literally the csis of 2:50:40.360 --> 2:50:43.480 under the Perfect Son. Yeah, she's a book that should be, uh, 2:50:44.280 --> 2:50:47.400 should be obligatory if you want to move to San Diego. Yeah. 2:50:47.440 --> 2:50:49.119 I think it's one of the one of the earlier 2:50:49.560 --> 2:50:53.400 Mike Davis books. But against San Diego, a place where 2:50:53.400 --> 2:50:55.400 the politics are bad. It's also what happens when everyone 2:50:55.440 --> 2:50:56.880 votes them no matter what. Right. 2:50:56.959 --> 2:50:59.280 Also, people, in general, if you want to understand why 2:50:59.640 --> 2:51:03.000 Southern California be like a do read read Mike Davis. 2:51:03.320 --> 2:51:07.920 Yeah, yeah, yeah, in general, just read Mike Davis. 2:51:07.959 --> 2:51:10.520 Actually, wherever you are read some Mike Davis. 2:51:10.840 --> 2:51:11.040 Yep. 2:51:11.920 --> 2:51:14.600 I seem to have used I want to get into 2:51:14.600 --> 2:51:16.240 this because I think this is an important issue that 2:51:16.640 --> 2:51:19.200 hasn't been raised any coverage. I see I seem to 2:51:19.240 --> 2:51:22.360 have used AB sixty driver's licenses to identify the people 2:51:22.360 --> 2:51:26.560 in Bonnafort Chetta, or at least use California DMV documents 2:51:26.560 --> 2:51:27.280 of some kind. 2:51:27.879 --> 2:51:28.400 Jesus. 2:51:29.040 --> 2:51:32.600 Yeah, So there's this misunderstanding. People think that if you 2:51:32.680 --> 2:51:35.920 have a driver's license in California, that information isn't accessible 2:51:36.040 --> 2:51:40.160 to immigration, and that's not true. AB sixty licenses. So 2:51:40.320 --> 2:51:43.280 that's Assembly Bill sixty, right, California piece of law allow 2:51:43.360 --> 2:51:46.440 people to get a license without having legal immigration status. 2:51:46.480 --> 2:51:49.680 This is a good thing. It means undocumented people are 2:51:49.720 --> 2:51:53.240 less likely to drive unlicensed and uninsured, right, and therefore 2:51:53.280 --> 2:51:55.560 it means that people are likely to stay at the 2:51:55.560 --> 2:51:59.120 scene of car accidents, and people who getting car accident 2:51:59.160 --> 2:52:01.480 to likely covered insurance. Right, I've been hit by an 2:52:01.560 --> 2:52:07.560 unsure driver. It fucking sucks. Oh. DHS cannot access information 2:52:07.640 --> 2:52:11.640 on whose license is an AB sixty license, but they 2:52:11.680 --> 2:52:16.240 can access through a variety of databases and mechanisms other 2:52:16.360 --> 2:52:19.959 DMV data, which may include things like photographs, addresses, or 2:52:20.000 --> 2:52:22.840 thumb prints. So in this case, they were able to 2:52:22.920 --> 2:52:25.200 look at the fake green card and then look at 2:52:25.240 --> 2:52:28.879 other data, both in federal and local databases, from various things. 2:52:28.879 --> 2:52:31.360 And some of these people had overstayed visas their claiming 2:52:31.440 --> 2:52:33.400 right be like, Okay, well we found a guy with 2:52:33.440 --> 2:52:36.080 this name and this date of birth, but the person 2:52:36.120 --> 2:52:38.480 hasn't minisued a green card, that that's their claim right, 2:52:39.080 --> 2:52:42.480 and the same with the driver's license database. So obviously, 2:52:42.840 --> 2:52:44.960 just to finish up on that thought, I guess this 2:52:45.000 --> 2:52:47.480 disincentivizes people from doing the thing which I've just said 2:52:47.560 --> 2:52:50.360 is good, which is getting a driver's license. Right. It disincentivizes. 2:52:50.760 --> 2:52:53.240 I mean, I'm seeing things from students right now being 2:52:53.280 --> 2:52:56.520 afraid of going to their own graduations, being afraid of 2:52:56.560 --> 2:53:00.879 having their parents at their own graduation. Right like two 2:53:00.920 --> 2:53:05.360 blocks from a school, fucking chicken do not she's on 2:53:05.440 --> 2:53:09.720 top of the fence. Sorry, I'm just going to leave this. 2:53:10.040 --> 2:53:11.240 You're gonna fucking get out? 2:53:12.959 --> 2:53:18.960 Oh yeah, please chicken break. 2:53:19.760 --> 2:53:22.680 I really, I really truly thought that that was part 2:53:22.680 --> 2:53:24.720 of the sentence, and I was trying to process in 2:53:24.760 --> 2:53:25.480 my brain. 2:53:25.280 --> 2:53:26.560 What the fighting was going on. 2:53:27.320 --> 2:53:33.520 That's like, yeah, all. 2:53:33.480 --> 2:53:37.920 Right, we're back. Did you none commanded? Did you pick 2:53:37.959 --> 2:53:38.440 up the chicken? 2:53:39.360 --> 2:53:39.440 Ye? 2:53:39.800 --> 2:53:45.560 Could you say that you were kind of a chicken jockey? Everyone? 2:53:45.560 --> 2:53:48.400 No? No, just another thirty seconds of silence, everybody, let's 2:53:48.400 --> 2:53:49.600 really give that it's due. 2:53:51.480 --> 2:53:55.040 Anyone got a gong that we could find? No? No, 2:53:55.800 --> 2:54:01.640 all right, pouring one out for Garrison. So right now, 2:54:01.640 --> 2:54:05.120 both Bonifort Jetta locations are closed. They go Fundme for 2:54:05.160 --> 2:54:07.720 the impacted employees and their families has already hit twice 2:54:07.720 --> 2:54:10.920 its goal one hundred and twenty thousand dollars. As I've said, 2:54:10.959 --> 2:54:13.400 there have been on sef gestions which, as far as 2:54:13.440 --> 2:54:16.520 I'm were unfounded that a restaurant forced and documented employees 2:54:16.560 --> 2:54:20.400 to work long hours. That doesn't matter, right, even if 2:54:20.440 --> 2:54:24.560 they did, you shouldn't be punishing the people who are being, 2:54:24.640 --> 2:54:28.320 in theory abused, right. I don't understand how you get 2:54:28.320 --> 2:54:30.199 to that logic. And even if that is the case, 2:54:30.280 --> 2:54:34.440 like having ice available on call to deport your employees 2:54:34.480 --> 2:54:36.600 only plays into the hands of abusive bosses who don't 2:54:36.600 --> 2:54:38.920 want to pay people, right, they can just call ice instead. 2:54:39.200 --> 2:54:41.120 This is a tactic that's been used for decades and 2:54:41.160 --> 2:54:44.920 into migrants. So yeah, that's all I got. Good times, 2:54:45.040 --> 2:54:46.280 good times in San Diego. 2:54:46.760 --> 2:54:49.039 Yeah, Yeah, We're going to talk about this more in 2:54:49.080 --> 2:54:53.720 another episode. There was also a rage in Minneapolis that 2:54:53.800 --> 2:54:55.920 you know, there's like through the agents out multi agency 2:54:56.040 --> 2:54:59.080 raid and like a hundred people just showed up and 2:54:59.480 --> 2:55:00.840 got them the fuck off. 2:55:00.640 --> 2:55:02.199 And they didn't end up arresting anybody. 2:55:02.480 --> 2:55:04.440 Yeah, I think, well, so I think they wrest some 2:55:04.440 --> 2:55:06.320 all the protesters, but like they didn't end up attaining anything. 2:55:06.320 --> 2:55:08.240 They did not detain the people they were going after, 2:55:08.520 --> 2:55:09.000 they stopt them. 2:55:09.440 --> 2:55:11.200 Yeah, and there's there's this there's this great line that 2:55:11.280 --> 2:55:14.040 fucking every single person from Minneapolis who I know now 2:55:14.640 --> 2:55:17.560 is quoting where one of the people who got interviewed 2:55:18.320 --> 2:55:20.640 in Sahan Journal said, that's Minnieappolis. 2:55:20.720 --> 2:55:20.959 Baby. 2:55:21.000 --> 2:55:23.840 We pull up, so you too could pull up and 2:55:23.959 --> 2:55:26.560 stop the fucking you see for cowards, you can stop 2:55:26.600 --> 2:55:30.920 them now. Speaking of incredible cowardice. One of the things 2:55:30.959 --> 2:55:34.280 that's been happening on a sort of another immigration front 2:55:34.640 --> 2:55:38.000 is the US's attempt to revoke student visas for Chinese 2:55:38.000 --> 2:55:43.440 international students. We don't actually know what this means yet 2:55:43.480 --> 2:55:45.440 and what's going to look like. All they've said is 2:55:45.480 --> 2:55:49.680 that they're working to aggressively to revoke visas. As a 2:55:49.760 --> 2:55:52.400 direct quote from them, and this this is this was 2:55:52.440 --> 2:55:56.680 from uh Marco Rubio on fucking whatever social media app 2:55:57.240 --> 2:55:59.760 and you also say, quote, we will revise visa criteria 2:55:59.760 --> 2:56:03.000 to a hand scrutiny of all future visa applications from 2:56:03.000 --> 2:56:05.400 the People's of Public of China and Hong Kong. So 2:56:05.680 --> 2:56:08.200 uh fucking rip all of the Hong Kong liberals who 2:56:08.200 --> 2:56:08.879 supported Trump. 2:56:09.440 --> 2:56:10.920 Yeah, bad shit. 2:56:11.720 --> 2:56:13.920 No one knows exactly what this is going to mean. 2:56:14.200 --> 2:56:17.480 I've seen speculation that this could be a full ban. 2:56:17.760 --> 2:56:20.320 I that's what Stephen Miller has wanted for a long time. 2:56:20.400 --> 2:56:23.520 I don't know if that's going to happen. They've been 2:56:23.520 --> 2:56:26.600 talking about like quote unquote critical fields like stems stuff. 2:56:27.720 --> 2:56:30.920 It could also be a you know, the ceific language 2:56:30.959 --> 2:56:32.920 they're using is like anyone who's linked to the Communist Party. 2:56:33.959 --> 2:56:36.080 That's a lot and what's that mean? 2:56:36.440 --> 2:56:37.520 Yet? Who the fuck knows? 2:56:37.720 --> 2:56:39.920 Right, Like, you know, like there's some of these people 2:56:39.959 --> 2:56:42.000 are the kids of like Chinese companies partaty members, but 2:56:42.120 --> 2:56:44.600 like there are that's like seven percent of the population 2:56:44.680 --> 2:56:46.960 of China, right, Like that's a lot of people, and 2:56:47.080 --> 2:56:50.960 then linked can be fucking anything, right Like, yeah, you know, 2:56:52.040 --> 2:56:54.720 so no one is entirely sure what this means yet. 2:56:55.280 --> 2:56:58.320 I my guess is that it's going to be combined 2:56:58.480 --> 2:57:00.480 with the other horrible thing I been doing right now, 2:57:00.480 --> 2:57:03.840 which that they've suspended visits like consular visits to get 2:57:03.840 --> 2:57:05.680 student visas while they try to figure out how to 2:57:05.840 --> 2:57:08.600 like do this like implement this new social media policy 2:57:08.640 --> 2:57:11.080 where they want to just effectively. What it looks like 2:57:11.120 --> 2:57:13.200 they want to do is just like if you've posted 2:57:13.200 --> 2:57:16.360 about Palestine, they deny your student visa. That seems like 2:57:16.480 --> 2:57:17.760 the thing that they're trying to put in place, Yet 2:57:17.760 --> 2:57:20.720 they haven't yet My guess is that these two are 2:57:20.760 --> 2:57:23.000 going to end up being linked and they're gonna and 2:57:23.080 --> 2:57:24.720 that that's gonna be what they're doing. It could also 2:57:24.840 --> 2:57:26.800 just be some sort of large scale of rollback of 2:57:27.520 --> 2:57:31.080 student visas for Chinese international students here, Chinese and national 2:57:31.120 --> 2:57:34.920 students have been targeted under so many goddamn administrations now, 2:57:35.000 --> 2:57:36.000 it's fucking horrible. 2:57:36.680 --> 2:57:38.480 These are just like people. 2:57:39.000 --> 2:57:41.720 It's interesting because when you read media accounts of this, 2:57:42.440 --> 2:57:44.360 a lot of them will be like, well, people aren't 2:57:44.400 --> 2:57:45.840 that Like, we're not that scared. 2:57:45.840 --> 2:57:46.160 That's okay. 2:57:46.240 --> 2:57:47.920 It's like, well, no, you you are talking to the 2:57:47.959 --> 2:57:50.400 people who are stupid enough to talk to an American journalist. Right, 2:57:50.879 --> 2:57:53.720 most people just say no because they're genuine. Is like 2:57:53.760 --> 2:57:56.000 creating an atmosphere or fucking terror where people don't want 2:57:56.040 --> 2:57:57.760 to people don't want to speak out about it. And 2:57:57.800 --> 2:57:59.320 this and this has been something that's been used to 2:57:59.560 --> 2:58:03.680 like great grad student unions, you know, like just over 2:58:03.720 --> 2:58:06.119 the years, this has been a kind of repression. 2:58:06.160 --> 2:58:06.800 It's very useful. 2:58:06.959 --> 2:58:10.760 This is also I think part of their of just 2:58:10.840 --> 2:58:13.080 the broader war against higher education because a lot of 2:58:13.200 --> 2:58:16.080 Chinese international students like come in on full tuition, so 2:58:16.200 --> 2:58:20.040 they're paying for a large percentage of like a bunch 2:58:20.080 --> 2:58:21.240 of university budgets. 2:58:21.879 --> 2:58:23.080 But yeah, we will, we will. 2:58:23.080 --> 2:58:25.840 We will keep you informed as to what this actually 2:58:25.920 --> 2:58:27.560 looks like. That's what we know about it for now. 2:58:27.840 --> 2:58:28.920 It fucking sucks. 2:58:30.000 --> 2:58:34.120 Let's end with some semi good news. I guess we 2:58:34.200 --> 2:58:40.160 will return into my horribly named segment Stinky Musk. Oh god, hey, 2:58:40.320 --> 2:58:42.360 this is Gaere from the future, just cutting in here 2:58:42.360 --> 2:58:45.280 at the beginning because help well hint. The twenty four 2:58:45.360 --> 2:58:49.280 hours after we were recorded this initial segment, there has 2:58:49.400 --> 2:58:53.360 been substantial developments in the Elon Musdonald Trump breakup story. 2:58:53.920 --> 2:58:56.000 It is getting quite ugly out there, folks. 2:58:56.080 --> 2:58:59.920 The girls are fighting Diva down jd Vance is high 2:59:00.120 --> 2:59:02.920 in the closet as the parents are screaming down the hallway. 2:59:03.400 --> 2:59:06.080 It is getting quite ugly. Trump's gotten rid of the 2:59:06.120 --> 2:59:09.760 electric vehicle mandate and is threatening to terminate Elon's government 2:59:09.840 --> 2:59:13.800 subsidies and contracts. Meanwhile, Elon Musk is talking about how 2:59:13.879 --> 2:59:17.120 Donald Trump is in the Epstein files, like duh, Like 2:59:17.200 --> 2:59:19.200 we don't already know this, but for some reason, this 2:59:19.360 --> 2:59:22.800 is blowing the minds of people like Alex Jones, who 2:59:22.800 --> 2:59:26.680 are now crashing out on the timeline, huge, huge shakeups 2:59:26.800 --> 2:59:28.760 in the mega world, with some people trying to cope 2:59:28.800 --> 2:59:31.920 claiming that this is a five D Chess move and 2:59:32.040 --> 2:59:36.120 that Elon and Trump are gonna come back together in 2:59:36.200 --> 2:59:40.320 the end, which is completely absurd. This is a huge 2:59:40.360 --> 2:59:42.960 shift in the power balance in the New Right. We 2:59:43.040 --> 2:59:44.520 will be doing a whole new piece in the near 2:59:44.600 --> 2:59:48.120 future on the Elon Musk Donald Trump breakup story and 2:59:48.200 --> 2:59:52.119 how it will affect the Republican Party. But the following segment, 2:59:52.120 --> 2:59:55.040 which we recorded on Wednesday, will essentially outline how we 2:59:55.200 --> 2:59:58.160 got right up to this point, all of these slow 2:59:58.240 --> 3:00:02.880 microaggressions and fractures that led to this much more explosive breakup. 3:00:03.640 --> 3:00:05.920 So enjoy that and keep your ears peeled for a 3:00:06.000 --> 3:00:11.040 future piece on Elon Musk Donald Trump's messy situation ship. So, 3:00:11.800 --> 3:00:15.119 Elan Musk donald Trump are now officially in their messy 3:00:15.320 --> 3:00:18.160 breakup phase where they're both trying to kind of play 3:00:18.200 --> 3:00:20.640 it cool, but resentment is clearly bubbling. 3:00:21.680 --> 3:00:23.480 So after report surface. 3:00:23.200 --> 3:00:26.240 Tobu the growing rifts between Musk and Trump, the White 3:00:26.280 --> 3:00:30.320 House gave Musk a one last farewell hurrah on Friday, 3:00:30.400 --> 3:00:33.880 May thirtieth, wear Musk sporting a black eye and a 3:00:33.959 --> 3:00:37.520 T shirt reading the Doge Father, was gifted a gold 3:00:37.680 --> 3:00:40.960 key to the White House by Donald Trump. A day later, 3:00:41.080 --> 3:00:44.800 Trump withdrew the nomination of Musk ally Jared Isaacman as 3:00:44.920 --> 3:00:49.119 NASA administrator, so as Musk's Special Government employee designation expired, 3:00:49.840 --> 3:00:52.320 nothing was renewed. They did not try to push him 3:00:52.360 --> 3:00:56.560 through as an more permanent advisor. He is essentially getting 3:00:56.840 --> 3:01:01.080 the soft boot. According to Axios, Musk had asked the 3:01:01.080 --> 3:01:03.440 White House about staying on as an advisor past the 3:01:03.480 --> 3:01:07.720 one hundred and thirty day Special Government employee threshold, but 3:01:08.000 --> 3:01:12.160 that was denied. Now, Musk has been reportedly disillusioned by 3:01:12.240 --> 3:01:16.520 the Wisconsin election and the unexpected difficulty in pushing through 3:01:16.600 --> 3:01:19.840 some of his Doge cuts, along with the growing frustration 3:01:19.959 --> 3:01:24.080 regarding the Liberation Day tariffs which affect his businesses. To 3:01:24.360 --> 3:01:26.879 add to the tension, according to The New York Times, 3:01:27.160 --> 3:01:30.040 Musk has been upset that Trump has been negotiating deals 3:01:30.120 --> 3:01:35.560 with Open AI instead of Musk's own competitor, Grock god. 3:01:38.360 --> 3:01:41.680 In late May, Musk posted on x the everything app 3:01:41.760 --> 3:01:44.879 quote back to spending twenty four to seven at work, 3:01:45.160 --> 3:01:49.680 I must be super focused on x slash XAI and tesla. 3:01:50.000 --> 3:01:52.920 Well, to be fair, Garrison, have you seen ch gpt 3:01:53.840 --> 3:01:56.600 ever speaking in the style of Jajjar Binks in such 3:01:56.640 --> 3:02:01.240 a convincin you know that is true? Right there? Yeah? 3:02:01.400 --> 3:02:03.680 Not well talking about the plight of the boors. 3:02:05.240 --> 3:02:07.760 So as Musk was preparing to exit the White House, 3:02:07.959 --> 3:02:10.560 he began airing his beef with the new big beautiful 3:02:10.600 --> 3:02:11.160 budget bill. 3:02:11.280 --> 3:02:11.560 Quote. 3:02:11.879 --> 3:02:13.920 I think a bill can be big or it can 3:02:14.000 --> 3:02:16.680 be beautiful, but I don't know if it can be both, 3:02:17.440 --> 3:02:20.120 telling CBS News quote, I was disappointed to see the 3:02:20.200 --> 3:02:23.720 massive spending bill, frankly, which increases the budget deficit, not 3:02:24.160 --> 3:02:27.760 just decreases it, and undermines the work that the Doge 3:02:27.879 --> 3:02:32.640 team is doing unquote. After this, Steven Miller started subtweeting 3:02:32.800 --> 3:02:37.080 Musk on x the Everything app outlining the different types 3:02:37.120 --> 3:02:40.879 of cuts that Doge can make versus reconciliation bills can make, 3:02:41.360 --> 3:02:44.200 and defend it the big Beautiful bill, calling it quote 3:02:44.440 --> 3:02:48.760 the single largest welfare reform in American history, along with 3:02:49.000 --> 3:02:51.560 the largest tax cut reform in American history, the most 3:02:51.560 --> 3:02:56.360 aggressive energy expiration in American history, and the strongest border 3:02:56.440 --> 3:02:59.720 bill in American history, all while reducing the deficit unquote, 3:02:59.720 --> 3:03:03.400 which it does not reduce the deficit. But now that 3:03:03.680 --> 3:03:08.240 Musk's White House exit has been more solidified, Musk's animosity 3:03:08.360 --> 3:03:12.520 towards Trump's main palsy bill has just skyrocketed, posting on 3:03:12.720 --> 3:03:16.280 June third on x Everything app, I'm sorry, but I 3:03:16.400 --> 3:03:20.039 just can't stay it anymore. This massive, outrageous, pork filled 3:03:20.160 --> 3:03:22.720 congressional spending bill is a disgusting abomination. 3:03:23.200 --> 3:03:25.840 Shame on those who voted for it. You know you 3:03:26.040 --> 3:03:26.600 did wrong. 3:03:26.840 --> 3:03:34.080 You know it. Similarly, Stephen Miller has also been crashing 3:03:34.120 --> 3:03:37.760 out on the Timeline, attempting to defend the bill and 3:03:37.920 --> 3:03:41.160 push back on Musk's attacks in a flurry of tweets, 3:03:41.160 --> 3:03:44.359 and one of which reads, quote the big beautiful budshet 3:03:44.400 --> 3:03:48.560 bill will increase by orders of magnitude the scope, scale, 3:03:48.600 --> 3:03:51.040 and speed of removing illegal and criminal aliens from the 3:03:51.120 --> 3:03:53.520 United States. For that reason alone, is the most essential 3:03:53.560 --> 3:03:57.520 piece of legislation currently under construction in the entire Western 3:03:57.680 --> 3:04:03.200 world in generations. Wow, now Steven seems pretty worked out, 3:04:04.080 --> 3:04:07.000 And I think this could actually have to do not 3:04:07.560 --> 3:04:11.320 just about Musk's tweets, but also maybe about Steven's own 3:04:11.400 --> 3:04:15.640 personal life, because yeah, Steven's animosity could relate to the 3:04:15.760 --> 3:04:19.200 fact that Musk seems to be stealing Stephen Miller's own 3:04:19.400 --> 3:04:20.880 life Katie Miller. 3:04:21.760 --> 3:04:24.640 Katie Miller was working in a top position. 3:04:24.360 --> 3:04:27.240 At DOME as a special government employee, and now that 3:04:27.360 --> 3:04:30.400 her designation has also expired, she is leaving the government 3:04:30.760 --> 3:04:35.640 to continue working with Musk full time, including arranging Musk's 3:04:35.720 --> 3:04:39.680 own interview appearances. It is not looking great, folks. The 3:04:39.760 --> 3:04:45.000 cockchair is getting warmed. I am not thrilled about Elon 3:04:45.160 --> 3:04:47.920 Musk possibly having a baby with Stephen Miller's life. 3:04:48.040 --> 3:04:51.880 This is really dark timeline stuff. I think all of 3:04:51.959 --> 3:04:55.400 them should be doing better, different different. 3:04:55.600 --> 3:04:59.440 I certainly can critique the way polyamory functions in, you know, 3:04:59.560 --> 3:05:01.240 and leftist anarchist faces. 3:05:01.680 --> 3:05:02.640 This is the most toxic. 3:05:04.800 --> 3:05:05.000 Yeah. 3:05:05.600 --> 3:05:07.760 This this is a night of wrong wives too, and 3:05:07.959 --> 3:05:10.680 hopefully it ends up for all of these motherfuckers like 3:05:10.760 --> 3:05:11.680 it did for him Buck. 3:05:12.240 --> 3:05:13.160 So yeah fu. 3:05:13.959 --> 3:05:17.240 Stephen Miller went on TV last week to like talk 3:05:17.280 --> 3:05:19.240 about how much he cares about his family. 3:05:19.400 --> 3:05:21.760 It's it's such it's such good timing. 3:05:22.200 --> 3:05:24.000 It's really dark for him. 3:05:24.520 --> 3:05:28.800 Yeah, if you marry Stephen Miller, it's because you're you're 3:05:28.879 --> 3:05:31.040 both the same kind of evil, and if that's the 3:05:31.120 --> 3:05:33.320 kind of person you are, Elon Musk is going to 3:05:33.400 --> 3:05:35.800 give you more opportunities to be the kind of evil 3:05:35.840 --> 3:05:36.280 you want to be. 3:05:36.480 --> 3:05:38.240 It's right, It's just obvious. 3:05:38.560 --> 3:05:41.000 Like this is like I I can't just tell if 3:05:41.120 --> 3:05:43.920 Musk is an upgrade or a lateral move from Stephen Miller. 3:05:44.000 --> 3:05:47.920 It's really tough to say. Yeah, this is very funny, 3:05:48.080 --> 3:05:48.760 but yeah, that is. 3:05:49.680 --> 3:05:51.320 This is one of the you know, last bits in 3:05:51.360 --> 3:05:53.920 the White House Elon musk saga. He really tried to 3:05:54.200 --> 3:05:58.520 like push forward this this this doge retire all government employees' agenda, 3:05:59.120 --> 3:06:01.400 and it ran into way more roadblocks than what he 3:06:01.440 --> 3:06:03.560 was expecting. And he seems really upset about that. And 3:06:03.640 --> 3:06:05.360 now he has to return to the private sector to 3:06:05.360 --> 3:06:08.119 save his failing businesses, which have only started to fail 3:06:08.160 --> 3:06:12.920 more now that he damaged an already kind of a troubling. 3:06:12.520 --> 3:06:16.920 Reputation the past few months. Yeah. So, yeah, that is 3:06:17.160 --> 3:06:21.880 the update on Elon Musk. Awesome, Well, everybody, we reported 3:06:21.920 --> 3:06:24.520 the news. I love reporting the news and that you 3:06:24.640 --> 3:06:27.440 did it. Goodbye, we reported the news. 3:06:34.640 --> 3:06:37.800 Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week 3:06:37.879 --> 3:06:39.760 from now until the heat death of the universe. 3:06:40.560 --> 3:06:43.000 It could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 3:06:43.240 --> 3:06:46.240 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 3:06:46.360 --> 3:06:49.880 Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 3:06:50.000 --> 3:06:51.920 Apple Podcasts, or wherever. 3:06:51.720 --> 3:06:54.600 You listen to podcasts can now find sources for it 3:06:54.640 --> 3:06:57.080 could Happen here listed directly in episode descriptions. 3:06:57.440 --> 3:06:58.240 Thanks for listening.