WEBVTT - The Real Killer Season 3: Ep. 14, Bring It

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<v Speaker 1>A warning.

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<v Speaker 2>This episode contains depictions of violence and conversations about suicide

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<v Speaker 2>that may be disturbing and triggering for some listeners. If

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<v Speaker 2>you are struggling with suicidal thoughts, please fast forward to

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<v Speaker 2>the end of this episode to find out where help

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<v Speaker 2>is available. I don't want to scare you. We're on

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<v Speaker 2>page four of fourteen.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh lord, Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>I continue my conversation with Kelly Moffatt, who came forward

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<v Speaker 2>almost three years after Anastasia Whitpbules Fuchen was murdered to

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<v Speaker 2>say her then boyfriend Byron Case is the real killer.

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<v Speaker 2>I said it to you from the very beginning, I

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<v Speaker 2>think when I wrote to you more than a year ago.

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<v Speaker 1>God, I can't believe it's been them all.

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<v Speaker 2>That I was going into this story just looking for

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<v Speaker 2>the truth. I'm just looking for the truth. I'm Leah Rothman.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the Real Killer, Episode fourteen.

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<v Speaker 1>Bring it.

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<v Speaker 2>Before we can continue with part two of my interview

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<v Speaker 2>with Kelly, we must talk about something quite shocking that

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<v Speaker 2>has just been revealed to me. On Tuesday night, before

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<v Speaker 2>this Thursday episode was to come out, Kelly sends me

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<v Speaker 2>screenshots from her littering case. It shows that her sentence

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<v Speaker 2>was to pay a fine. Remember that's what she said

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<v Speaker 2>in the last episode. And she was really confused because

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<v Speaker 2>she didn't remember spending forty eight hours in jail and

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<v Speaker 2>getting two years probation. So I sent her the docket

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<v Speaker 2>I have, which includes the sentence of forty eight hours

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<v Speaker 2>of shock jail time and two years probation. Within minutes,

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<v Speaker 2>Kelly texts me that there is a case number on

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<v Speaker 2>the docket that doesn't match hers. At first, I don't

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<v Speaker 2>see what she's seeing. Then I do. I immediately look up

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<v Speaker 2>the other case number and it belongs to some guy

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<v Speaker 2>named Brendan who passed some bad checks back in nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>ninety nine. To say I am stunned and embarrassed is

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<v Speaker 2>a major understatement. I ask Kelly if we can talk

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<v Speaker 2>on the phone, and that I won't record the call.

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<v Speaker 1>She says yes.

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<v Speaker 2>One of the first things she says to me is

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<v Speaker 2>do you believe me? Now? While on the phone, we

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<v Speaker 2>both look at the other guy's docket and Kelly points

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<v Speaker 2>out that although there's no mention of him being sentenced

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<v Speaker 2>to forty eight hours shock jail time, he was sentenced

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<v Speaker 2>to unsupervised probation for seven hundred in thirty one days,

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<v Speaker 2>so basically two years and one day of probation. This

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<v Speaker 2>has to be a horrible clerical error, right. Kelly said, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>there are things she can't remember, but she remembers the

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<v Speaker 2>important stuff, like Byron killed Anastasia, and that she never

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<v Speaker 2>spent forty eight hours in jail and was given two

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<v Speaker 2>years probation, which makes more sense because in the last episode,

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<v Speaker 2>when I asked her about how she said in her

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<v Speaker 2>deposition she had never been in trouble with the law,

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<v Speaker 2>she said she didn't consider a littering charge and paying

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<v Speaker 2>a fine a big deal, which, by the way, there

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<v Speaker 2>is a separate page in her docket that says her

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<v Speaker 2>sentence was only to pay a fine of fourteen dollars

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<v Speaker 2>and ninety five cents. For someone who takes her job

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<v Speaker 2>very seriously and works hard to get all of the

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<v Speaker 2>facts correct, this is a very bad oversight on my part.

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<v Speaker 2>I apologize to Kelly, which she graciously accepts. She says,

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<v Speaker 2>this is the kind of stuff Byron's legal team has

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<v Speaker 2>been doing to try and discredit her. She asks me

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<v Speaker 2>if I think they did it on purpose or do

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<v Speaker 2>they just not know how to read a court docket.

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<v Speaker 2>I need to know what Byron's legal team is going

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<v Speaker 2>to say about this. Remember, they allege that Kelly came

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<v Speaker 2>forward because there was some behind the scenes maneuvering to

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<v Speaker 2>get her out of legal trouble in exchange for her

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<v Speaker 2>pointing the finger at Byron. Now that it's clear there

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<v Speaker 2>was none of that, As Kelly maintained in our last episode,

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<v Speaker 2>a big part of their case falls apart. I will

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<v Speaker 2>ask them about all of this and have that for

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<v Speaker 2>you in our next and final episode. Okay, getting back

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<v Speaker 2>to the second part of our interview, Kelly and I

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<v Speaker 2>now get into the nitty gritty of what she says

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<v Speaker 2>happened that fateful evening in Lincoln Cemetery just minutes before

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<v Speaker 2>Anastasia was murdered. If I understand correctly, you were sitting

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<v Speaker 2>in the passenger backseat. Yeah, I think you said where

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<v Speaker 2>was an Anastasia was standing sort of like back back

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<v Speaker 2>window on the driver's side, yes, and Justin was more

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<v Speaker 2>towards the front of the car on the driver side.

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<v Speaker 1>Could see him. I could definitely see Anastasia, and then

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<v Speaker 1>I heard the trunk pop, and then that's when I

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<v Speaker 1>looked over and I looked out the window. Definitely what

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<v Speaker 1>do you remember saying it was Okay, how do I

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<v Speaker 1>do this? I don't want to make noise on your table. Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>Say you're looking out the window. Someone's here, someone's here.

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<v Speaker 1>It's kind of an angle. So that's Anastasia, this is Byron.

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<v Speaker 2>You know what you do it out here on this table,

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<v Speaker 2>it's okay.

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<v Speaker 1>So here's Anna Stasier standing here, here's Justin, here's Byron

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<v Speaker 1>popping the trunk, and then they're both they're kind of

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<v Speaker 1>parallel to me.

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<v Speaker 2>So if this is the car, yeah, headlights, yes, okay, okay.

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<v Speaker 2>And then, in an attempt to get an understanding of

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<v Speaker 2>where Kelly says everyone was at the time of the murder,

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<v Speaker 2>on a scrap piece of paper, I draw a car

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<v Speaker 2>with headlights. Then I asked Kelly to show me where Justin, Anastasia,

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<v Speaker 2>and eventually Byron were standing. If you want to see

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<v Speaker 2>this very rudimentary drawing, I'm posting it on the Real

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<v Speaker 2>Killer Podcast Instagram page.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, and then cause you yeah, here's me in the

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<v Speaker 1>back passenger seat, like, here's Justin standing here, here's Anne

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<v Speaker 1>stays you're right there, Byron pump pops the trunk and

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<v Speaker 1>then is like, right here, actually I should put myself

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<v Speaker 1>further back. It's they were at an angle, so I

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<v Speaker 1>could definitely see her face and everything, and when he

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<v Speaker 1>lifted up the gun, but it was no wonder. I

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<v Speaker 1>didn't know how long the gun was just because I

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<v Speaker 1>could see his arm left up her face blah blah blah.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know, when something's completely parallel and they're both opaque,

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<v Speaker 1>it kind of blocks.

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<v Speaker 2>The right in line with each other.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like it was, it was aligned with each other,

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<v Speaker 1>but I could still see her face and whatnot. And

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<v Speaker 1>then also, my husband's one of those people that researches everything,

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<v Speaker 1>and he actually said he was like, well, no, because

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<v Speaker 1>five feet actually makes more sense because if it was

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<v Speaker 1>a longer gun or whatever and he had to raise

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<v Speaker 1>it up, the gun was probably you know, yay long,

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<v Speaker 1>and then it could have still really been in her face,

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<v Speaker 1>you know. So I don't know why they're Also also

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<v Speaker 1>I was a teenage girl that didn't know anything about guns.

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<v Speaker 1>I did the best I could with giving them the explanation.

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<v Speaker 1>Sergeant Kilgore, yeah, and he kept trying to get me

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<v Speaker 1>to commit to a length, and I'm like, I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>It was dusk, it was freaking to me, that's a

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<v Speaker 1>mute point. And of course I know in trials you

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<v Speaker 1>want to get everything as exact as possible, but that's

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<v Speaker 1>not how life works. That's just not I didn't know

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<v Speaker 1>anything about guns. I didn't. All I know is that

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<v Speaker 1>she he shot or as she fell, and then it

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<v Speaker 1>was a scramble like to get back in the car.

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<v Speaker 2>And when I do have to say after our interview,

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<v Speaker 2>some days later, I messaged Kelly and told her I

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<v Speaker 2>had a couple of follow up questions. One was regarding

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<v Speaker 2>the drawing. I wondered how Byron could have gotten out

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<v Speaker 2>of the car from the dry side and made his

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<v Speaker 2>way to the trunk if Justin and Anastasia were standing

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<v Speaker 2>right there. Did Byron go in between them? I didn't understand,

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<v Speaker 2>so I asked Kelly, and she sends this voice message,

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<v Speaker 2>believing the question came from Byron's legal team and not me.

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<v Speaker 1>The map is very simple to follow. I'm not going

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<v Speaker 1>into the whole god out of the car, all the

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<v Speaker 1>stupid fucking crap. I stick to my original testimony. Byron

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<v Speaker 1>just down up to this. I am so sick of this.

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<v Speaker 1>It makes me feel horrible about my entire involvement in

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<v Speaker 1>all this. I just I feel disgusting after talking about

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<v Speaker 1>all this stuff, and he could give a shit less

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<v Speaker 1>quit picking at maps and little Timmy Jesus Christ, you

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<v Speaker 1>got out of the car and you popped the trunk

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<v Speaker 1>and you killed her again.

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<v Speaker 2>I let Kelly know it was my question and not

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<v Speaker 2>one coming from Byron's legal team. I'm sorry my follow

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<v Speaker 2>up question caused her so much stress. But one more

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<v Speaker 2>thing that I remembered even later. Kelly said she was

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<v Speaker 2>sitting in the back passenger seat behind Anastasia, Byron had

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<v Speaker 2>been sitting behind Justin. But Byron said the opposite that

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<v Speaker 2>after they left the Dairy Queen and then Mount Washington Cemetery,

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<v Speaker 2>he was sitting in the back passenger seat behind Anastasia

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<v Speaker 2>and Kelly had been sitting behind Justin. I wonder who

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<v Speaker 2>was telling the truth. Okay, back to Kelly in our

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<v Speaker 2>sit down interview, I think you said when you came forward,

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<v Speaker 2>you said that the gun that Byron said the gun

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<v Speaker 2>had came from his dad's or did you say that

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<v Speaker 2>you said that the gun had come from his dad's.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think I knew. I think I said, now,

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<v Speaker 1>don't quote me on this like I said, it's been

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<v Speaker 1>so long. I had thought that I had seen a

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<v Speaker 1>gun like a mountain on the wall at his dad's house,

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<v Speaker 1>and so I assumed that that was the gun. But

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<v Speaker 1>I don't you know.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to get to the affidavits that they got later.

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<v Speaker 2>But when doctor Young says your description of anestatia being

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<v Speaker 2>blown backwards was Hollywood style fiction, what do you say

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<v Speaker 2>to that?

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<v Speaker 1>I don't even know they're talking about, because then the

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<v Speaker 1>guy on that Unlocking the Truth said that I would

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<v Speaker 1>have had to be a lying genius to get it

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<v Speaker 1>like I got it well. And what is that I

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<v Speaker 1>don't even understand. I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I if you listen to that episode. Kelly

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<v Speaker 2>is referring to when doctor Thomas Young was interviewed by

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<v Speaker 2>Ryan Ferguson on MTV's Unlocking the Truth. I think it

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<v Speaker 2>was episode ten where doctor Young, you know, gives it

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<v Speaker 2>writes an affidavit for Byron's legal team, saying that what

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<v Speaker 2>you described was not forensically possible. However, on the sun

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<v Speaker 2>Last Thing, Yeah, Locking the Truth show, he said what

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<v Speaker 2>you did say made sense.

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<v Speaker 1>So what is that?

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<v Speaker 2>What do you make of a medical examiner who says

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<v Speaker 2>to like conflicting diametrically posed things like so that makes.

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<v Speaker 1>No sense to me and just shows me that they

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<v Speaker 1>don't know what they're talking about either, I mean, and also,

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<v Speaker 1>don't some of these people get paid to be expert

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<v Speaker 1>witnesses suddenly and stuff. I mean, I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know that he was, but I don't care.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, this is gonna sound whatever. I don't care

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<v Speaker 1>what they say. I know what I saw. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>I would love for everything to fit into all these

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<v Speaker 1>little perfect boxes so that everything lined up. But like

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<v Speaker 1>I said, if you know much about the science of memory,

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<v Speaker 1>that's not how stuff works. And also like I was

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<v Speaker 1>a kid who knew nothing about gun and nothing about

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I did the best I could.

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<v Speaker 2>A very specific thing that you said when you came

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<v Speaker 2>forward forward was that Justin was yelling in German basically

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<v Speaker 2>stop don't do it?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Had you heard them talking German to each other?

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<v Speaker 1>Before? Yeah? Well, like I said, help, Like to me,

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<v Speaker 1>that's pretty that is such specific circumstances, like how did

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<v Speaker 1>I make that up? You? When I make that up?

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<v Speaker 1>And also with all this stuff I think coming forward,

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<v Speaker 1>like I destroyed my own life. It was already destroyed

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<v Speaker 1>with all the guilt and stuff too. I had no

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<v Speaker 1>idea if I was going to get immunity. I was

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<v Speaker 1>scared to death. I didn't you know, I didn't know

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<v Speaker 1>if I was going to be charged with murderers. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean I almost thought that that was like what

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<v Speaker 1>I deserved and stuff. Idea and then also for the

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<v Speaker 1>rest of my life. If you google me, that is

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<v Speaker 1>immediately what pops up. You know, I've had people at

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<v Speaker 1>jobs figure it out and stuff. Why would I just

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<v Speaker 1>announce to the world that, you know, because of me,

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<v Speaker 1>someone is dead. That makes no sense to get back at.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's just so stupid.

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<v Speaker 2>Right because it's been alleged that you were so angry

0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:35.680
<v Speaker 2>that Byron was moving to Saint Louis and leaving you,

0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:41.480
<v Speaker 2>leaving you period, whether it was like you know, because

0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:44.240
<v Speaker 2>he would give you money and showers and stuff like that, you.

0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:48.240
<v Speaker 1>Just didn't do any of that. He flat out didn't

0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:51.760
<v Speaker 1>do any of that. I wouldn't have wanted him to.

0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:54.600
<v Speaker 1>I was scared of him, and I thought he was

0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:57.440
<v Speaker 1>a piece of shit. He never I don't know where

0:14:57.480 --> 0:14:58.560
<v Speaker 1>he's even getting that.

0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:06.680
<v Speaker 2>So you did not come forward out of revenge.

0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:10.040
<v Speaker 1>Revenge for what. Sorry, I broke up with him. I

0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:13.760
<v Speaker 1>got a new boyfriend right afterwards. I got someone that

0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:18.880
<v Speaker 1>was age appropriate that I just did not want anything

0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:22.440
<v Speaker 1>to do with him anymore. Why would I care if

0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:25.840
<v Speaker 1>he moved? I mean probably a little bit, because it

0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:31.440
<v Speaker 1>was like he was not emotionally affected by any of

0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:34.160
<v Speaker 1>this and just seemed to be doing whatever. Do you

0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:39.400
<v Speaker 1>know this? Do you know that after all this, he

0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:43.800
<v Speaker 1>drove around in some hooptie with a pitchfork on his

0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:48.840
<v Speaker 1>car with a rotting chicken carcass on it. What you

0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:54.160
<v Speaker 1>need to look that up? Yeah? After and so that

0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:57.520
<v Speaker 1>was another thing that it was basically known that he

0:15:57.560 --> 0:16:01.040
<v Speaker 1>was a murderer and stuff in Westport. Yeah, No, he

0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:06.640
<v Speaker 1>thought it was funny. Okay. He literally had a pitchfork

0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:10.080
<v Speaker 1>that he welded to the front of his car that

0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:14.280
<v Speaker 1>had a rotting chicken hang off, and he drove it

0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:18.560
<v Speaker 1>around Westport and he thought it was hilarious. This is

0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:21.680
<v Speaker 1>after he'd been a suspect in her murder.

0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:25.880
<v Speaker 2>My mouth is a gape at this story, and I'm

0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:28.000
<v Speaker 2>adding it to the growing list of questions I have

0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:32.720
<v Speaker 2>for Byron. I then asked Kelly how she thought the

0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:36.680
<v Speaker 2>story Byron had allegedly concocted that Anastasia got out of

0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:39.920
<v Speaker 2>the car on Truman Road walked off, never to be

0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:43.360
<v Speaker 2>seen by any of them. Ever again, oh would hold up.

0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:45.920
<v Speaker 1>I think he thought he was smarter than the police.

0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:49.160
<v Speaker 1>I think he definitely thought he was smarter than me.

0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:54.840
<v Speaker 1>That's why I think he whatever the tacit admission shit

0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:57.800
<v Speaker 1>is is because I thought I mean, I think he

0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:01.080
<v Speaker 1>thought that he had me geared and I was never

0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:04.159
<v Speaker 1>going to come forward and do anything. And you know,

0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:09.200
<v Speaker 1>and now I've said, like, just fuck him. I don't

0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:12.639
<v Speaker 1>I rarely or not rarely, I never say that I

0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:17.120
<v Speaker 1>hate people. But he's a pretty I mean, I don't

0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:19.720
<v Speaker 1>even have sympathy for him, like I said, because that

0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:24.639
<v Speaker 1>driving around you know where her sisters can see with

0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:30.160
<v Speaker 1>a rotting chicken on your car, his little license plates

0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:33.800
<v Speaker 1>that said morbid and said atheist and blah blah blah.

0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:38.440
<v Speaker 1>But it was basically like he was taunting whatever. Yeah,

0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:41.560
<v Speaker 1>he definitely thought that he was the smartest guy in

0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:44.600
<v Speaker 1>the room. He also thought he was the most interesting

0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:47.000
<v Speaker 1>guy in the room. He thought a lot of things.

0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:49.960
<v Speaker 1>I don't know where he ever got that idea.

0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:55.240
<v Speaker 2>In the time between you coming forward and the June fifth,

0:17:55.280 --> 0:18:00.000
<v Speaker 2>two thousand and one recorded call, the TUSSED mission call. Yeah,

0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:02.520
<v Speaker 2>what was life like for you during those months?

0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:07.280
<v Speaker 1>It was stressful. I was afraid, because that's another thing.

0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:09.800
<v Speaker 1>He's like, Oh, she was stalking me, she knew my

0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:12.480
<v Speaker 1>number here, she knew my number there, blah blah blah.

0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:15.560
<v Speaker 1>The police gave me those numbers so I could call

0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:19.040
<v Speaker 1>him and try to get him to admit to something

0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:23.639
<v Speaker 1>over the phone. Yeah, that was really really stressful because

0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:28.040
<v Speaker 1>I knew that, you know, the case hung on that,

0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:32.280
<v Speaker 1>and I'm just so sick of the whole like, did

0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:35.480
<v Speaker 1>he say we shouldn't talk about this? Did he say

0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:38.399
<v Speaker 1>we should talk about it? The whole point is that

0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:41.960
<v Speaker 1>he didn't say, you crazy bitch. I didn't kill her.

0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:45.280
<v Speaker 1>I mean he didn't even. In fact, he sat there

0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:48.080
<v Speaker 1>and listened to me ramble for a very long time.

0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:55.280
<v Speaker 1>He's just I can't believe these people believe this shit

0:18:55.400 --> 0:19:01.320
<v Speaker 1>that he's saying. It's just so stupid. It's not I

0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:01.840
<v Speaker 1>don't know.

0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:08.120
<v Speaker 2>I asked more about the circumstances surrounding the June fifth

0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:11.480
<v Speaker 2>recorded phone call. Do you remember why you felt like

0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:14.280
<v Speaker 2>tonight like I'm gonna try again while Angie's here.

0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:18.800
<v Speaker 1>It was just out of desperation because the deadline was

0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:23.080
<v Speaker 1>getting more and more. What deadline to call him and

0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:26.879
<v Speaker 1>get him to admit to something. I mean, not really deadline.

0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:29.280
<v Speaker 1>They had just that thing had been hooked up in

0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:31.679
<v Speaker 1>my house for a very long time, and I hadn't

0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:34.480
<v Speaker 1>had any I think it was just summoning in touch

0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:40.480
<v Speaker 1>with him. But then I remember that someone had informed

0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:42.520
<v Speaker 1>me that they thought that he was back at his

0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:47.480
<v Speaker 1>mom's house, and so I was just like, Okay, one

0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:51.239
<v Speaker 1>more time, let's try to you know. And did you

0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:55.959
<v Speaker 1>also notice with him supposedly saying that he gave me

0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:58.880
<v Speaker 1>money and helped me shower and stuff, he never once

0:19:59.000 --> 0:20:01.800
<v Speaker 1>in that conversation and was like, look, I can't give

0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:06.000
<v Speaker 1>you any more money, I can't blah blah blah, stop

0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:07.679
<v Speaker 1>calling me about that, none of that.

0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:12.000
<v Speaker 2>Had you ever asked him point blank like why did

0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:14.240
<v Speaker 2>you like like you did on that call, Why did

0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:16.000
<v Speaker 2>you feel the need to kill her? Had you ever

0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:16.960
<v Speaker 2>asked him that before?

0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:22.480
<v Speaker 1>Not in the exact way, but yeah, I had definitely

0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:25.520
<v Speaker 1>said before, like that night where he like pinned me

0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:28.960
<v Speaker 1>up against the wall but my neck when I confronted

0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:33.600
<v Speaker 1>him about being a murderer. I was like, where on earth? Like,

0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:37.720
<v Speaker 1>how did you guys even start talking about this? I'm like,

0:20:38.040 --> 0:20:42.080
<v Speaker 1>Justin was not that type of person, Like he just was.

0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:44.480
<v Speaker 1>He was very lost. Like I said, I think he

0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:50.680
<v Speaker 1>was very mentally ill. But also Justin didn't his screensaver wasn't,

0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:54.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, crime scene photos and stuff. And Byron had

0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:57.320
<v Speaker 1>also told me stuff. This was another reason why I

0:20:57.320 --> 0:20:59.520
<v Speaker 1>thought he was full of crap. He had told me

0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:03.479
<v Speaker 1>that he participated in necrophilia and all kinds of stuff before,

0:21:04.200 --> 0:21:08.160
<v Speaker 1>and I was like, yeah, okay, I just didn't Yeah,

0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:12.439
<v Speaker 1>a sixteen year old had access to it. I don't

0:21:12.480 --> 0:21:13.200
<v Speaker 1>know he.

0:21:13.280 --> 0:21:18.080
<v Speaker 2>Just what did you? I steer Kelly back to the

0:21:18.200 --> 0:21:23.880
<v Speaker 2>June fifth TACIT admission phone call. There supposedly was some

0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:29.439
<v Speaker 2>plane closed law enforcement person there. Who was that person?

0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:35.359
<v Speaker 1>I do not remember that. I was drinking a lot

0:21:35.440 --> 0:21:38.800
<v Speaker 1>back then, and she was drinking a lot back then.

0:21:40.760 --> 0:21:44.120
<v Speaker 1>I'm not going to speak for her, but we were

0:21:44.160 --> 0:21:46.959
<v Speaker 1>both drinking that night, so I don't know how clear

0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:51.040
<v Speaker 1>her memory of that is either or if that was.

0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:55.600
<v Speaker 1>You know, people can be very suggestible. I don't remember

0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:58.280
<v Speaker 1>a plane closed in anybody.

0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:01.040
<v Speaker 2>Because it was the end, Like night that you called him,

0:22:01.280 --> 0:22:03.760
<v Speaker 2>So that would be very late to have something now.

0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:07.440
<v Speaker 1>And it's sure as hell wasn't Amy McGowan whatever they're

0:22:07.480 --> 0:22:11.640
<v Speaker 1>trying to say. I just remember it was not Amy McGowan. No,

0:22:12.000 --> 0:22:12.440
<v Speaker 1>hell no.

0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:17.399
<v Speaker 2>Amy McGowan was the first prosecutor on the case. We

0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:19.760
<v Speaker 2>talked about her in episode ten.

0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:25.680
<v Speaker 1>From my recollection. There was no plane, clothes, anybody there.

0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:30.399
<v Speaker 1>And because I had tried so many times and was

0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:33.160
<v Speaker 1>unable to get in touch with him that I think

0:22:33.200 --> 0:22:35.639
<v Speaker 1>that they thought maybe it was like a lost cause.

0:22:36.240 --> 0:22:38.200
<v Speaker 2>Do you think he knew he was being recorded?

0:22:39.520 --> 0:22:43.800
<v Speaker 1>I think he uh suspected it because, like I said,

0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:46.840
<v Speaker 1>he did. I didn't want anything to do with him

0:22:47.640 --> 0:22:51.040
<v Speaker 1>at all, and he knew that, So why on earth

0:22:51.080 --> 0:22:54.520
<v Speaker 1>would I be calling him other than something. I definitely

0:22:54.600 --> 0:22:58.920
<v Speaker 1>think he's thought maybe something was going on because he

0:22:59.000 --> 0:23:03.199
<v Speaker 1>barely said me. But then also, okay, if there was all,

0:23:04.400 --> 0:23:06.560
<v Speaker 1>this is another thing that doesn't make any sense to

0:23:06.600 --> 0:23:10.560
<v Speaker 1>me either about like what his legal team says. If

0:23:10.600 --> 0:23:13.359
<v Speaker 1>there was nothing to that, why did he keep wanting

0:23:13.400 --> 0:23:15.800
<v Speaker 1>to meet in person and talk about it but not

0:23:15.920 --> 0:23:21.840
<v Speaker 1>on the phone. The Jackson County prosecutor wouldn't let me

0:23:21.920 --> 0:23:24.280
<v Speaker 1>go because they were afraid he was going to kill me.

0:23:25.160 --> 0:23:26.919
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because he wanted to meet the next day at

0:23:26.920 --> 0:23:29.760
<v Speaker 2>Loose Park, right, Yeah, he wanted to meet.

0:23:30.000 --> 0:23:34.840
<v Speaker 1>Alone, like in you know, some kind of deserted part

0:23:34.880 --> 0:23:37.560
<v Speaker 1>of the park, and they were like absolutely not.

0:23:38.400 --> 0:23:40.760
<v Speaker 2>If you had been allowed to go meet Byron the

0:23:40.760 --> 0:23:43.160
<v Speaker 2>next day at the park. How did you imagine that

0:23:43.200 --> 0:23:49.800
<v Speaker 2>conversation going. What did I think what actually happened. Definitely

0:23:49.920 --> 0:23:54.879
<v Speaker 2>thought that he would try to threaten me or kill me,

0:23:55.520 --> 0:24:00.320
<v Speaker 2>or maybe he really would say, look the store, not

0:24:00.480 --> 0:24:03.560
<v Speaker 2>that complicated. I told you, We told you know, she

0:24:03.720 --> 0:24:06.119
<v Speaker 2>got out of the car here at Truman Road and

0:24:06.160 --> 0:24:09.280
<v Speaker 2>she blah blah blah, you know something like that. Do

0:24:09.280 --> 0:24:12.720
<v Speaker 2>you remember how you felt after that call ended.

0:24:13.800 --> 0:24:18.840
<v Speaker 1>I was very relieved that I had gotten in contact

0:24:18.920 --> 0:24:22.680
<v Speaker 1>with him, but I was also very very nervous because

0:24:24.040 --> 0:24:26.919
<v Speaker 1>he had been over to my parents' house like countless times,

0:24:26.920 --> 0:24:30.760
<v Speaker 1>and I know that he knew where they lived. I

0:24:30.880 --> 0:24:35.440
<v Speaker 1>was also wondering if he was gonna skip town before

0:24:35.480 --> 0:24:39.119
<v Speaker 1>they got a chance to arrest him. Yeah, just a

0:24:39.160 --> 0:24:42.160
<v Speaker 1>fear of retaliation and all kinds of stuff.

0:24:42.720 --> 0:24:44.600
<v Speaker 2>How did you feel when you learned that he had

0:24:44.640 --> 0:24:45.280
<v Speaker 2>been arrested?

0:24:46.200 --> 0:24:52.159
<v Speaker 1>Very relieved, But I also knew that unless they literally

0:24:52.280 --> 0:24:56.399
<v Speaker 1>I knew his type of personality, unless they literally showed

0:24:56.480 --> 0:24:58.840
<v Speaker 1>him a video of him killing her. I was like,

0:24:58.920 --> 0:25:03.000
<v Speaker 1>he's just gonna He's been lying for so long, his

0:25:03.160 --> 0:25:06.520
<v Speaker 1>entire life and persona is a lie, that he's just

0:25:06.640 --> 0:25:12.120
<v Speaker 1>gonna you know, that's all he's gonna do, because for him,

0:25:12.160 --> 0:25:12.960
<v Speaker 1>that's no big deal.

0:25:13.680 --> 0:25:15.760
<v Speaker 2>Is the next time you see him at trial?

0:25:17.000 --> 0:25:20.719
<v Speaker 1>Yes? And what was that like? That was kind of

0:25:20.760 --> 0:25:25.359
<v Speaker 1>interesting because I was afraid that I was gonna be

0:25:25.440 --> 0:25:30.840
<v Speaker 1>more scared of him. I was extremely angry. I was

0:25:30.960 --> 0:25:34.240
<v Speaker 1>just like, you're not because, like I said, like I've

0:25:34.280 --> 0:25:38.240
<v Speaker 1>just felt I'm like, like, you don't even have enough

0:25:38.400 --> 0:25:41.320
<v Speaker 1>dignity to maybe. I mean, he could have pled guilty

0:25:41.359 --> 0:25:44.480
<v Speaker 1>to manslaughter, he could have done anything. I was just like,

0:25:44.560 --> 0:25:48.320
<v Speaker 1>you're this fucking arrogant that you're gonna make her family

0:25:48.400 --> 0:25:52.080
<v Speaker 1>and Justin's family go through all this. But of course,

0:25:52.240 --> 0:25:54.879
<v Speaker 1>because that's that's who he was, that's who he is.

0:25:55.680 --> 0:25:58.200
<v Speaker 2>When you were on the stand, did you look over

0:25:58.560 --> 0:26:00.800
<v Speaker 2>at Byron, did you lock eyes?

0:26:01.520 --> 0:26:04.280
<v Speaker 1>I'd glanced at him, but no, I don't think so,

0:26:04.520 --> 0:26:08.040
<v Speaker 1>because for me, that just it wasn't about him. Anymore.

0:26:08.080 --> 0:26:12.359
<v Speaker 1>It was about Anastasia. And I was pissed, and I

0:26:12.600 --> 0:26:16.440
<v Speaker 1>just I don't know. It was like something took over.

0:26:16.640 --> 0:26:21.440
<v Speaker 2>When he When Byron is convicted and sentenced to life

0:26:21.520 --> 0:26:25.879
<v Speaker 2>in prison, how do you feel, how did you feel good?

0:26:26.119 --> 0:26:29.040
<v Speaker 1>And I was also extremely mad because, like I said,

0:26:29.040 --> 0:26:32.480
<v Speaker 1>by that point, I had found out that he had

0:26:32.560 --> 0:26:36.960
<v Speaker 1>told Brum, he told Tara he'd told all this stuff.

0:26:37.480 --> 0:26:40.280
<v Speaker 1>And I was like, and none of you people are

0:26:40.320 --> 0:26:43.520
<v Speaker 1>gonna say shit. And I was, like, I said, I

0:26:43.560 --> 0:26:47.040
<v Speaker 1>was flabbergasted that all these people older than me that

0:26:47.160 --> 0:26:51.879
<v Speaker 1>knew about this were still sticking to their guns on

0:26:53.040 --> 0:26:54.719
<v Speaker 1>the bullshit story or whatever.

0:26:55.560 --> 0:26:59.760
<v Speaker 2>I asked Abraham about these allegations that Byron had confessed

0:26:59.760 --> 0:27:05.040
<v Speaker 2>to and Tara that he killed Anastasia. Abraham says, this

0:27:05.320 --> 0:27:09.960
<v Speaker 2>quote that is absolutely a lie. Tara always expressed to

0:27:10.040 --> 0:27:13.280
<v Speaker 2>me a belief that Byron was innocent. I don't believe

0:27:13.440 --> 0:27:17.120
<v Speaker 2>she would ever cover for Anastasia's murderer. She and Anastasia

0:27:17.160 --> 0:27:20.600
<v Speaker 2>were really close. I obviously can't speak for her, but

0:27:20.720 --> 0:27:23.520
<v Speaker 2>I can say for certain that Byron never told me

0:27:23.600 --> 0:27:28.520
<v Speaker 2>anything other than he was innocent. But Kelly says she

0:27:28.840 --> 0:27:33.200
<v Speaker 2>was present for at least one strange interaction between Byron

0:27:33.520 --> 0:27:34.280
<v Speaker 2>and Tarah.

0:27:34.320 --> 0:27:37.840
<v Speaker 1>This was one particular I don't know if I've told

0:27:37.840 --> 0:27:43.600
<v Speaker 1>you this before, but you know, he told Tara McDowell

0:27:43.640 --> 0:27:48.800
<v Speaker 1>and she ended up dying. But there was one particular

0:27:48.920 --> 0:27:53.200
<v Speaker 1>time where Byron kind of just out of the blue,

0:27:53.840 --> 0:27:55.560
<v Speaker 1>which is another thing where, like I said, I think

0:27:55.560 --> 0:27:57.480
<v Speaker 1>he just thought he was so much smarter than me

0:27:57.560 --> 0:28:04.639
<v Speaker 1>and whatever. He took me with him over to Tara's apartment.

0:28:05.160 --> 0:28:10.679
<v Speaker 1>I believe Tara and that stupid Braven guy were there.

0:28:11.480 --> 0:28:16.840
<v Speaker 1>He said that he didn't think that Tara had heard

0:28:16.880 --> 0:28:21.200
<v Speaker 1>about Anastasia's death yet and that she needed to hear

0:28:21.600 --> 0:28:24.720
<v Speaker 1>about it from a friend. But the whole I'm like,

0:28:24.800 --> 0:28:29.200
<v Speaker 1>why do I need to be here? Because I barely

0:28:29.280 --> 0:28:34.719
<v Speaker 1>knew Tara whatsoever. I didn't particularly like her either, and

0:28:34.720 --> 0:28:41.600
<v Speaker 1>the whole thing just felt very set up, very whatever.

0:28:42.080 --> 0:28:45.440
<v Speaker 1>It felt very theatrical, and of course she put on

0:28:45.520 --> 0:28:50.920
<v Speaker 1>this big performance when he told her that Anastasia was dead.

0:28:51.040 --> 0:28:54.680
<v Speaker 1>She was like, hold on, I just need a second,

0:28:55.200 --> 0:28:57.640
<v Speaker 1>Oh my goodness, and she went into the back bedroom

0:28:57.680 --> 0:29:01.000
<v Speaker 1>and Byron just had this like shit, a grin, like

0:29:01.720 --> 0:29:04.800
<v Speaker 1>good job, Tara. That was a great performance type thing,

0:29:04.880 --> 0:29:07.720
<v Speaker 1>and then she came back, and the whole time I

0:29:07.880 --> 0:29:12.720
<v Speaker 1>was like, he's wanting me to see this, like there's

0:29:12.800 --> 0:29:16.520
<v Speaker 1>no way, like this girl knows this. And then yeah,

0:29:16.560 --> 0:29:18.560
<v Speaker 1>it turns out that I was right. There was a

0:29:18.680 --> 0:29:19.880
<v Speaker 1>lot of stuff like that.

0:29:20.200 --> 0:29:24.040
<v Speaker 2>Did you share any of that with Teresa Crayon or

0:29:24.120 --> 0:29:27.680
<v Speaker 2>Amy McGowan at the time that Iron had told other people?

0:29:28.040 --> 0:29:30.400
<v Speaker 2>Because I don't think that ever came out a trial.

0:29:33.520 --> 0:29:36.280
<v Speaker 1>I don't think that I had much information on that

0:29:36.400 --> 0:29:40.320
<v Speaker 1>at the time. There was speculation and stuff, But yeah,

0:29:40.360 --> 0:29:43.080
<v Speaker 1>it was later on that I found out, you know.

0:29:43.680 --> 0:29:47.840
<v Speaker 1>But I also knew that the girl that had been

0:29:47.960 --> 0:29:51.320
<v Speaker 1>threatened and roughed up wanted absolutely nothing to do with

0:29:51.360 --> 0:29:53.920
<v Speaker 1>the situation because she was scared.

0:30:09.520 --> 0:30:13.200
<v Speaker 2>Let me ask you this question, why do you think

0:30:13.480 --> 0:30:19.960
<v Speaker 2>Byron felt comfortable moving away to Saint Louis knowing that

0:30:20.040 --> 0:30:24.880
<v Speaker 2>you could have very well gone and spilt the beans.

0:30:25.320 --> 0:30:28.200
<v Speaker 1>Like you said, the smartest person in the room, and

0:30:28.280 --> 0:30:30.480
<v Speaker 1>like I said, he used to always tell me like,

0:30:31.080 --> 0:30:35.360
<v Speaker 1>you're just as guilty as I am, blah blah blah.

0:30:35.440 --> 0:30:37.440
<v Speaker 1>I think he didn't think that I had like the

0:30:37.480 --> 0:30:40.640
<v Speaker 1>guts to do it, and I also think that he

0:30:40.840 --> 0:30:44.600
<v Speaker 1>thought he had more control over me than he did,

0:30:45.360 --> 0:30:47.160
<v Speaker 1>which to me is pretty laughable.

0:30:49.040 --> 0:30:51.320
<v Speaker 2>When you first came forward, I think you said that

0:30:51.360 --> 0:30:54.680
<v Speaker 2>the gun was dumped close ish to Lincoln Cemetery, and

0:30:54.720 --> 0:30:56.920
<v Speaker 2>then when you went out with Kilgore, it seemed to

0:30:56.960 --> 0:31:00.240
<v Speaker 2>be further away. Any thing you want to say about

0:31:00.280 --> 0:31:01.800
<v Speaker 2>that or yesterday I was.

0:31:01.720 --> 0:31:04.760
<v Speaker 1>Talking to my husband about that, and he goes, I

0:31:04.800 --> 0:31:06.880
<v Speaker 1>bet you anything that you would have found that gun

0:31:06.960 --> 0:31:09.320
<v Speaker 1>if you had come forward right away, if it would

0:31:09.320 --> 0:31:12.760
<v Speaker 1>have been like the day after or whatever. Yeah, right,

0:31:12.800 --> 0:31:15.120
<v Speaker 1>but it was three years later. Yeah, I just think

0:31:15.160 --> 0:31:19.800
<v Speaker 1>that it was. And also at that point in time

0:31:19.840 --> 0:31:23.760
<v Speaker 1>when they were driving around and getting rod of the gun,

0:31:23.800 --> 0:31:26.600
<v Speaker 1>I didn't even drive. You know, I wasn't old enough

0:31:26.640 --> 0:31:28.800
<v Speaker 1>to drive, so I didn't have any I wasn't paying

0:31:28.840 --> 0:31:31.880
<v Speaker 1>attention to roads or anything like that.

0:31:32.040 --> 0:31:39.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, help me understand the call that Byron and Justin

0:31:39.840 --> 0:31:42.200
<v Speaker 2>asked you to make from the gas station by your house,

0:31:43.600 --> 0:31:47.600
<v Speaker 2>because it seems like Anastasia thought the plan was to

0:31:47.640 --> 0:31:52.480
<v Speaker 2>meet at Mount Washington, right, That's what she told her stepmom, Diane,

0:31:51.880 --> 0:31:55.560
<v Speaker 2>I need to ride to Mount Washington. She went to

0:31:55.600 --> 0:32:00.560
<v Speaker 2>Mount Washington. Other people saw her there. She'd as this

0:32:01.000 --> 0:32:03.480
<v Speaker 2>couple who is test driving a car, Like, Hey, what

0:32:03.560 --> 0:32:05.600
<v Speaker 2>time is it. I'm supposed to meet my boyfriend. He's

0:32:05.640 --> 0:32:09.640
<v Speaker 2>not shown up, But you said that you needed to

0:32:09.680 --> 0:32:11.840
<v Speaker 2>call her to stay to meet at the dairy queen.

0:32:12.880 --> 0:32:17.640
<v Speaker 2>Can you explain that call to me? Yeah, I don't

0:32:17.720 --> 0:32:23.720
<v Speaker 2>remember a lot of it. I just remember Justin Justin

0:32:23.840 --> 0:32:28.040
<v Speaker 2>wanting me to do it, because he said like Anastasia

0:32:28.240 --> 0:32:33.320
<v Speaker 2>was like already pissed about how late they were, and

0:32:33.400 --> 0:32:35.680
<v Speaker 2>like he didn't think that she would take his call

0:32:35.840 --> 0:32:40.000
<v Speaker 2>or something. There was some reason. Yeah, but I do

0:32:40.160 --> 0:32:43.840
<v Speaker 2>know that I definitely made the call. That's another thing, like.

0:32:43.800 --> 0:32:48.960
<v Speaker 1>Why didn't Kilbo Kilgoar pull the records from that payphone?

0:32:49.960 --> 0:32:54.520
<v Speaker 2>Franzas that Justin called from a gas station in Lenexa,

0:32:55.080 --> 0:32:59.400
<v Speaker 2>wondering if Anastasia was still there or if Anastasia was there. Yeah,

0:32:59.440 --> 0:33:03.640
<v Speaker 2>and Frand say anything about talking with you. So it's like,

0:33:03.680 --> 0:33:06.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm just trying to figure out when that call took place.

0:33:07.120 --> 0:33:08.880
<v Speaker 2>Do you remember or do you know for sure that

0:33:08.920 --> 0:33:09.720
<v Speaker 2>you called the house?

0:33:10.480 --> 0:33:12.920
<v Speaker 1>I thought that I called the house and I thought

0:33:12.960 --> 0:33:17.160
<v Speaker 1>Anastasia answered, But I don't know. That's one of those

0:33:17.160 --> 0:33:18.520
<v Speaker 1>things just been too long.

0:33:19.520 --> 0:33:23.200
<v Speaker 2>What do you make of don Rand the night mechanic

0:33:23.240 --> 0:33:27.960
<v Speaker 2>at the Amico station saying that he saw Anastasia that night.

0:33:28.600 --> 0:33:31.120
<v Speaker 1>Get out of the car and all that stuff. I

0:33:31.200 --> 0:33:35.160
<v Speaker 1>don't know, Like I said, I've just since listening to

0:33:35.280 --> 0:33:38.760
<v Speaker 1>various doctors talk about that, and Ted talks about like

0:33:38.920 --> 0:33:44.360
<v Speaker 1>memory and eyewitnesses, And I'm not talking about eyewitnesses like

0:33:45.080 --> 0:33:48.320
<v Speaker 1>me who knew everybody involved and blah blah blah, just

0:33:48.440 --> 0:33:53.320
<v Speaker 1>eyewitnesses like complete strangers off the street. I don't know.

0:33:53.400 --> 0:33:58.040
<v Speaker 1>I think people can convince are very suggestible, maybe also

0:33:58.160 --> 0:34:02.000
<v Speaker 1>want to be involved in something exciting that I don't know,

0:34:02.080 --> 0:34:05.720
<v Speaker 1>maybe trying to get brownie points with the cops or something.

0:34:05.760 --> 0:34:08.440
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, because that has never made any sense

0:34:08.480 --> 0:34:11.600
<v Speaker 1>to me. I mean, that just floored me. Me and

0:34:11.680 --> 0:34:14.120
<v Speaker 1>Byron were like they're like, yeah, they found the guy

0:34:14.200 --> 0:34:15.920
<v Speaker 1>that says that she got out of like a And

0:34:15.960 --> 0:34:18.480
<v Speaker 1>I was like, she ever, we weren't ever even on

0:34:18.520 --> 0:34:23.400
<v Speaker 1>that road, Like what are you talking about? And that

0:34:23.640 --> 0:34:26.760
<v Speaker 1>made me see how hard it probably is to solve

0:34:26.920 --> 0:34:34.799
<v Speaker 1>crimes with all the misinformation and disinformation and stuff. Yeah, So, just.

0:34:35.680 --> 0:34:38.200
<v Speaker 2>For the record, Anastasia never got out of the car

0:34:38.200 --> 0:34:39.040
<v Speaker 2>on Truman Road.

0:34:40.040 --> 0:34:42.080
<v Speaker 1>No, absolutely not.

0:34:42.320 --> 0:34:45.239
<v Speaker 2>No, Why do you think Bob involved himself so much

0:34:45.280 --> 0:34:50.200
<v Speaker 2>in the investigation and did you know how much he

0:34:50.280 --> 0:34:53.600
<v Speaker 2>involved himself until you listened to And it's only a

0:34:53.680 --> 0:34:56.719
<v Speaker 2>drop in the bucket. Obviously we couldn't include everything. But

0:34:57.400 --> 0:35:00.480
<v Speaker 2>did you know how much Bob involved himself in the instigation?

0:35:01.480 --> 0:35:07.240
<v Speaker 1>Not? Really? No, What was the second part of the question,

0:35:08.040 --> 0:35:11.520
<v Speaker 1>what did you think about it? I just think, God,

0:35:11.719 --> 0:35:16.640
<v Speaker 1>I feel bad saying I just think Bob is nuts, honestly,

0:35:16.960 --> 0:35:19.800
<v Speaker 1>and I think maybe it was out of horrendous guilt,

0:35:19.920 --> 0:35:27.960
<v Speaker 1>because you know, he the girl's mom. She said she

0:35:28.080 --> 0:35:31.360
<v Speaker 1>divorced him for being so abusive and stuff. I don't know.

0:35:31.440 --> 0:35:35.840
<v Speaker 1>I think a lot of Bob's theories and Bob's whatever

0:35:35.960 --> 0:35:39.000
<v Speaker 1>were born out of guilt. We're born out of like

0:35:39.080 --> 0:35:42.800
<v Speaker 1>his own mental illness, I mean, and then obviously looking

0:35:42.840 --> 0:35:46.239
<v Speaker 1>at what he was charged with later, which I don't

0:35:46.280 --> 0:35:50.040
<v Speaker 1>even I know nothing about that and don't really care to.

0:35:51.160 --> 0:35:55.359
<v Speaker 1>I just think he's like a very odd duck and

0:35:55.440 --> 0:35:59.400
<v Speaker 1>maybe can't tell the difference between reality and whatever.

0:36:01.360 --> 0:36:04.840
<v Speaker 2>That Deputy Eperson, the one who actually found Anastasia, found

0:36:04.840 --> 0:36:08.160
<v Speaker 2>Bob at the exact same spot where her body was found.

0:36:08.440 --> 0:36:11.080
<v Speaker 2>And you know that Deputy Eperson found it very strange

0:36:11.080 --> 0:36:15.359
<v Speaker 2>and wrote that four page it is suspicious.

0:36:15.880 --> 0:36:16.640
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah.

0:36:16.920 --> 0:36:19.720
<v Speaker 2>It's also interesting to me that kil Gore had learned

0:36:19.760 --> 0:36:21.759
<v Speaker 2>a lot of things about Bob during the course of

0:36:21.760 --> 0:36:25.880
<v Speaker 2>the investigation, and really it didn't seem like he followed

0:36:25.960 --> 0:36:29.239
<v Speaker 2>up on any of it. Yeah, I mean, when there

0:36:29.320 --> 0:36:33.080
<v Speaker 2>was when everyone was still considered a suspect, right, one

0:36:33.080 --> 0:36:35.600
<v Speaker 2>would think that Bob would be somebody at least check

0:36:35.640 --> 0:36:38.120
<v Speaker 2>out the alibi, you know, So it seems like a

0:36:38.160 --> 0:36:42.399
<v Speaker 2>lot of stuff didn't happen. When you heard that Bob

0:36:42.480 --> 0:36:45.800
<v Speaker 2>had insurance policies out on Anastasia, that.

0:36:45.800 --> 0:36:49.360
<v Speaker 1>Was shocking, But then it also was hardly any money.

0:36:49.719 --> 0:36:53.360
<v Speaker 1>So I don't know. I just like I said, lots

0:36:53.400 --> 0:36:57.239
<v Speaker 1>of Bob's actions don't make much sense to me.

0:36:58.760 --> 0:37:02.440
<v Speaker 2>For the record, But around what time was Anastasia killed?

0:37:03.400 --> 0:37:07.960
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I definitely know, I do you remember it

0:37:08.040 --> 0:37:12.759
<v Speaker 1>was definitely dark enough to wear people had headlights on,

0:37:13.719 --> 0:37:18.320
<v Speaker 1>but it was bright enough to where I could see

0:37:18.360 --> 0:37:21.439
<v Speaker 1>them out and see what happened without like there being

0:37:21.520 --> 0:37:26.759
<v Speaker 1>like floodlights out there. Honestly, I don't know. I would

0:37:26.800 --> 0:37:30.360
<v Speaker 1>say I stick to my original testimony because I remember

0:37:30.440 --> 0:37:33.719
<v Speaker 1>I wasn't late for my funeral, not my funeral. I'm

0:37:33.719 --> 0:37:40.000
<v Speaker 1>sorry I wasn't late for my curfew, so yeah, but

0:37:40.080 --> 0:37:42.160
<v Speaker 1>I don't really, But.

0:37:42.160 --> 0:37:44.279
<v Speaker 2>It couldn't have been the eleven thirty at night when

0:37:44.320 --> 0:37:46.080
<v Speaker 2>Bob said he heard that gunshot.

0:37:46.280 --> 0:37:50.399
<v Speaker 1>No no, no, no, and that's another very bizarre thing,

0:37:50.520 --> 0:37:53.040
<v Speaker 1>like what and then he says he knew his daughter

0:37:53.200 --> 0:37:56.839
<v Speaker 1>was dad when he heard the man couldn't have made

0:37:56.880 --> 0:38:00.640
<v Speaker 1>himself look any worse. I mean, it was just very strange.

0:38:00.680 --> 0:38:02.920
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, no, there's no way it was eleven thirty.

0:38:03.480 --> 0:38:07.399
<v Speaker 2>So I'm sure you heard that. Byron's legal team thinks

0:38:07.400 --> 0:38:11.280
<v Speaker 2>that there was maybe some weirdness because you and Bob

0:38:11.560 --> 0:38:15.080
<v Speaker 2>had You wrote that first email to Bob, and then

0:38:15.480 --> 0:38:19.440
<v Speaker 2>there was some exchange email exchanges, and then there was

0:38:19.520 --> 0:38:23.040
<v Speaker 2>talk of getting together. Did you ever get together with Bob?

0:38:23.400 --> 0:38:23.520
<v Speaker 1>No?

0:38:24.800 --> 0:38:28.720
<v Speaker 2>Did you talking with Bob at all, even via email,

0:38:28.800 --> 0:38:31.880
<v Speaker 2>have anything to do with you coming forward and pointing

0:38:31.920 --> 0:38:32.800
<v Speaker 2>the finger at Byron.

0:38:33.360 --> 0:38:35.640
<v Speaker 1>Well, I pointed the finger at Byron because he did it.

0:38:36.760 --> 0:38:39.600
<v Speaker 1>I also one of the main reasons that I wanted

0:38:39.600 --> 0:38:42.960
<v Speaker 1>to talk to Bob with Bolsfugen was because I did

0:38:43.000 --> 0:38:47.799
<v Speaker 1>not want him thinking that I had any part in

0:38:47.880 --> 0:38:52.359
<v Speaker 1>those rude, awful emails Byron was sending to him. I

0:38:52.480 --> 0:38:55.080
<v Speaker 1>didn't even know. I mean like I wanted to make

0:38:55.120 --> 0:38:58.080
<v Speaker 1>sure that he knew that that was not how I

0:38:58.120 --> 0:39:02.360
<v Speaker 1>felt that. I thought Byron was just being a complete

0:39:03.120 --> 0:39:06.879
<v Speaker 1>asshole and very cruel to all their family. Yeah. It

0:39:06.920 --> 0:39:10.319
<v Speaker 1>was also once again I was hoping that maybe I

0:39:10.320 --> 0:39:13.080
<v Speaker 1>would get alone with him and he would be like, Kelly,

0:39:13.160 --> 0:39:16.799
<v Speaker 1>come on, just tell me. You know. I figured if

0:39:16.840 --> 0:39:20.080
<v Speaker 1>he got emotional and was asking me to tell him

0:39:20.080 --> 0:39:22.800
<v Speaker 1>the truth, that I would definitely tell him.

0:39:23.160 --> 0:39:26.320
<v Speaker 2>I mean, from everything you're saying, it feels and sounds

0:39:26.360 --> 0:39:29.719
<v Speaker 2>like you're basically just begging people to just ask.

0:39:29.640 --> 0:39:34.759
<v Speaker 1>More and yes or get yeah, anything, get confrontational with

0:39:34.800 --> 0:39:39.560
<v Speaker 1>me anything. It was so weird. I'm like, why were

0:39:39.600 --> 0:39:42.520
<v Speaker 1>people just believing all this stuff? Well, like I said,

0:39:42.560 --> 0:39:46.200
<v Speaker 1>there's we made a story up out of well, Byron

0:39:46.239 --> 0:39:49.640
<v Speaker 1>made a story about of thin air that she got

0:39:49.640 --> 0:39:53.040
<v Speaker 1>out of the car and blam, there's an employee saying

0:39:53.040 --> 0:39:56.319
<v Speaker 1>it happened. I mean, I was just like, what am

0:39:56.320 --> 0:40:00.840
<v Speaker 1>I in the Twilight Zone? I just wanted to someone.

0:40:01.000 --> 0:40:03.359
<v Speaker 1>I was like, please ask the right questions.

0:40:04.200 --> 0:40:07.520
<v Speaker 2>How how did Byron come up with that story? And

0:40:07.760 --> 0:40:10.680
<v Speaker 2>was it like easy to come up with that story

0:40:10.880 --> 0:40:13.759
<v Speaker 2>or did it take some time to be like, you know,

0:40:13.960 --> 0:40:16.359
<v Speaker 2>so what do we do? We say, like, you guys

0:40:16.360 --> 0:40:19.440
<v Speaker 2>got into a fight, Like how how did the how

0:40:19.480 --> 0:40:21.239
<v Speaker 2>did that story evolve and.

0:40:21.280 --> 0:40:24.680
<v Speaker 1>Come to be? It seemed like it happened pretty damn fast.

0:40:26.120 --> 0:40:29.480
<v Speaker 1>Maybe Byron had been thinking about it all day, But

0:40:29.680 --> 0:40:33.160
<v Speaker 1>to me, it was just like he was like, all right,

0:40:33.200 --> 0:40:36.560
<v Speaker 1>you guys, here's the plan. Everybody knows ya stage is

0:40:36.760 --> 0:40:39.240
<v Speaker 1>like hot headed, blah blah blah. And it was true

0:40:39.239 --> 0:40:43.640
<v Speaker 1>that she'd thrown the ring at him a couple of times,

0:40:44.239 --> 0:40:49.839
<v Speaker 1>the engagement ring or or the engagement ring or whatever. Yeah, yeah,

0:40:50.080 --> 0:40:54.120
<v Speaker 1>it just to me it seemed like he uh thought

0:40:54.160 --> 0:40:57.600
<v Speaker 1>it up pretty quickly. But they were alone for days

0:40:57.640 --> 0:41:00.680
<v Speaker 1>and days before that, so maybe it was he'd probably

0:41:00.760 --> 0:41:05.080
<v Speaker 1>had it planned for quite some time. What a weird story, though,

0:41:05.120 --> 0:41:07.839
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I always thought the story sounded ridiculous

0:41:07.880 --> 0:41:10.160
<v Speaker 1>and that I was like, there's no way they're going

0:41:10.239 --> 0:41:13.640
<v Speaker 1>to come. They're going to come arrest us all. I

0:41:13.680 --> 0:41:14.080
<v Speaker 1>don't know.

0:41:14.400 --> 0:41:18.120
<v Speaker 2>So when you heard John and Elizabeth Fisher in episode

0:41:18.160 --> 0:41:22.919
<v Speaker 2>twelve talk about how Bob had told John that he

0:41:23.000 --> 0:41:26.160
<v Speaker 2>saw Anastasia out on Truman Road that night or out

0:41:26.160 --> 0:41:27.440
<v Speaker 2>that night, and he tried to get her in the

0:41:27.440 --> 0:41:28.960
<v Speaker 2>car and she wouldn't get in the car. What did

0:41:29.000 --> 0:41:30.800
<v Speaker 2>you think when you heard them?

0:41:30.800 --> 0:41:34.719
<v Speaker 1>Bob was nuts that maybe he felt so guilty that

0:41:34.800 --> 0:41:38.120
<v Speaker 1>he wanted to put more of the blame on himself

0:41:38.160 --> 0:41:42.480
<v Speaker 1>to other people also just that maybe I'm like, maybe

0:41:42.480 --> 0:41:45.040
<v Speaker 1>he's just one of those, Maybe he's a pathological liar,

0:41:46.320 --> 0:41:50.120
<v Speaker 1>Maybe he just embellishes stuff, because why on earth would

0:41:50.120 --> 0:41:54.200
<v Speaker 1>you add that? I have no idea. I mean, he

0:41:54.360 --> 0:41:58.040
<v Speaker 1>was his own worst enemy throughout this entire thing, and

0:41:58.080 --> 0:42:02.080
<v Speaker 1>it made sense. Plus, so I'm like, he's hindering the

0:42:02.280 --> 0:42:08.239
<v Speaker 1>investigation that he supposedly wants done so badly. I know

0:42:08.520 --> 0:42:11.279
<v Speaker 1>Bob did not kill her, because I was there when

0:42:11.320 --> 0:42:15.120
<v Speaker 1>Byron killed her, But I mean, like, what is he doing?

0:42:15.560 --> 0:42:19.640
<v Speaker 2>I mean, Bob back then believed that Anastasia went home

0:42:19.680 --> 0:42:23.359
<v Speaker 2>that night. Patrick Rock still to this day thinks Anastasia

0:42:23.520 --> 0:42:26.359
<v Speaker 2>went home that night. What do you think about that?

0:42:27.320 --> 0:42:31.440
<v Speaker 1>I have thought about that so much over the years,

0:42:32.120 --> 0:42:34.280
<v Speaker 1>but I don't know. I don't trust my own memory.

0:42:34.960 --> 0:42:38.640
<v Speaker 1>I have had vague things where I thought that I

0:42:38.719 --> 0:42:42.960
<v Speaker 1>remember her being mad because she bled through onto her

0:42:43.040 --> 0:42:47.279
<v Speaker 1>pants because Justin was so late and maybe wanted us

0:42:47.320 --> 0:42:50.600
<v Speaker 1>to go by there. But I don't know if that

0:42:50.880 --> 0:42:56.840
<v Speaker 1>was something put into my head by hearing stuff or what.

0:42:57.239 --> 0:42:58.759
<v Speaker 1>I just don't You.

0:42:58.760 --> 0:43:02.319
<v Speaker 2>Don't have a clear memory memory of You don't know

0:43:02.400 --> 0:43:05.120
<v Speaker 2>if if you guys went back to Anastasia's house that night.

0:43:05.800 --> 0:43:09.719
<v Speaker 1>I don't, And I know on the stand I said

0:43:09.760 --> 0:43:13.320
<v Speaker 1>we didn't, So then that makes me think that that's

0:43:13.719 --> 0:43:16.560
<v Speaker 1>the truth. I just don't know. It's just it's been

0:43:16.640 --> 0:43:19.799
<v Speaker 1>so long, and like I said, when you're I've been

0:43:19.840 --> 0:43:23.440
<v Speaker 1>intact with Anastasia's friends and family off and on for

0:43:23.560 --> 0:43:28.080
<v Speaker 1>so such a long time, and we've talked about different

0:43:28.160 --> 0:43:31.839
<v Speaker 1>theories and stuff that I just don't you know for

0:43:31.880 --> 0:43:34.080
<v Speaker 1>the most part, And like I stick to my testimony

0:43:34.120 --> 0:43:37.000
<v Speaker 1>because Gil can do so much to you and make

0:43:37.080 --> 0:43:41.040
<v Speaker 1>you just I don't know. Your memory can warp, and

0:43:41.120 --> 0:43:43.120
<v Speaker 1>I've done a lot of drugs and alcohol and stuff

0:43:43.120 --> 0:43:48.279
<v Speaker 1>I just don't trust saying either way definitively, have you.

0:43:48.239 --> 0:43:51.719
<v Speaker 2>Ever seen Anastasia wear blue jeans and socks and sandals?

0:43:52.520 --> 0:43:54.440
<v Speaker 1>No socks was santos? Hell? No?

0:43:56.560 --> 0:43:58.520
<v Speaker 2>What did you think when you heard that a stun

0:43:58.600 --> 0:44:01.080
<v Speaker 2>gun had been found on Annis Station's bed.

0:44:01.480 --> 0:44:06.520
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I wasn't surprised because I knew that Justin and

0:44:06.640 --> 0:44:09.319
<v Speaker 1>Byron had gotten it's a taser of the same thing

0:44:09.360 --> 0:44:11.759
<v Speaker 1>as a stun gun. Yeah, yeah, I knew that they

0:44:11.840 --> 0:44:17.480
<v Speaker 1>had gotten stuff and taste homeless people. Byron was really

0:44:17.600 --> 0:44:21.400
<v Speaker 1>cruel and he would do all kinds of stuff. I

0:44:21.440 --> 0:44:27.000
<v Speaker 1>remember there was this very very overrate homeless guy called

0:44:27.400 --> 0:44:32.880
<v Speaker 1>Everybody called the Slug that would be in Westport and

0:44:33.000 --> 0:44:38.360
<v Speaker 1>Byron would give him like twenty or thirty dollars to

0:44:38.520 --> 0:44:43.560
<v Speaker 1>do jumping jacks in front of a group of people,

0:44:43.600 --> 0:44:46.160
<v Speaker 1>and it was bad. The guy would wheeze and stuff

0:44:46.200 --> 0:44:49.840
<v Speaker 1>and could barely do it. Disgusted by that. Just the

0:44:49.960 --> 0:44:53.880
<v Speaker 1>longer I was with him, the more just it was

0:44:53.960 --> 0:44:58.480
<v Speaker 1>just gross. He got off on humiliating people and all

0:44:58.600 --> 0:45:00.920
<v Speaker 1>kinds of things. Yeah.

0:45:01.040 --> 0:45:04.560
<v Speaker 2>Did you know anything about Anastasia and Patrick Rock's relationship?

0:45:05.040 --> 0:45:06.239
<v Speaker 2>When did you meet Patrick.

0:45:06.080 --> 0:45:10.560
<v Speaker 1>Rock after her death? Definitely? I can't remember if it

0:45:10.640 --> 0:45:14.839
<v Speaker 1>was at the funeral or what. I just had known

0:45:14.920 --> 0:45:16.640
<v Speaker 1>it was like a friend of the family. I knew

0:45:16.640 --> 0:45:23.520
<v Speaker 1>it was her godfather. I remember her and Justin having

0:45:23.600 --> 0:45:26.680
<v Speaker 1>plans like to go out to lunch with him, and stuff.

0:45:27.200 --> 0:45:30.960
<v Speaker 1>I've gotten to know him fairly well after everything, and

0:45:32.360 --> 0:45:35.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, keeping in touch with the family and everything,

0:45:35.960 --> 0:45:39.200
<v Speaker 1>and I think he helps run that, like Stasia dot

0:45:39.360 --> 0:45:40.479
<v Speaker 1>Org thing.

0:45:41.960 --> 0:45:44.719
<v Speaker 2>He changed his phone number the next day. There's he

0:45:44.760 --> 0:45:47.160
<v Speaker 2>had nothing to do with Anastasia's murder.

0:45:47.719 --> 0:45:52.360
<v Speaker 1>No, once again, he's just he's a very odd duck. Patrick.

0:45:52.400 --> 0:45:54.480
<v Speaker 1>If you're listening to this, I'm sorry. I just think

0:45:54.520 --> 0:45:57.480
<v Speaker 1>he's on the spectrum and kind of I think it

0:45:57.520 --> 0:46:00.200
<v Speaker 1>had nothing to do with anything.

0:46:00.360 --> 0:46:04.680
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I don't either, but it is interesting that

0:46:04.760 --> 0:46:08.400
<v Speaker 2>when I asked him, like about his connection to Lincoln Cemetery,

0:46:08.560 --> 0:46:11.239
<v Speaker 2>he said he had no idea or hadn't been there,

0:46:11.480 --> 0:46:14.359
<v Speaker 2>And it's like, but he was a historian of you know,

0:46:14.360 --> 0:46:17.719
<v Speaker 2>for the negro leagues, and so it is some of

0:46:17.760 --> 0:46:21.239
<v Speaker 2>the answers are interesting, but that doesn't make him a

0:46:21.320 --> 0:46:22.440
<v Speaker 2>murder clearly.

0:46:22.680 --> 0:46:25.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I know. I think there's a lot of bizarre

0:46:25.640 --> 0:46:28.480
<v Speaker 1>people in this case that, just like I said, they

0:46:28.560 --> 0:46:32.360
<v Speaker 1>made themselves look bad by doing certain things. But I

0:46:32.400 --> 0:46:33.520
<v Speaker 1>have nothing to do with it.

0:46:33.680 --> 0:46:39.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, did Anastasia ever share with you girl to girl,

0:46:39.360 --> 0:46:44.720
<v Speaker 2>lady to lady what kind of products she would use

0:46:44.880 --> 0:46:45.920
<v Speaker 2>when she had her period?

0:46:46.880 --> 0:46:53.160
<v Speaker 1>I remember her saying that she didn't like tampons. Well,

0:46:53.239 --> 0:46:58.400
<v Speaker 1>she had lost her virginity to Justin, so I remember

0:46:58.480 --> 0:47:02.320
<v Speaker 1>her saying that, like, you know, she was so new

0:47:02.360 --> 0:47:05.160
<v Speaker 1>to all that stuff that they were uncomfortable. I do

0:47:05.280 --> 0:47:07.479
<v Speaker 1>remember her saying that, but it wasn't like a long

0:47:07.560 --> 0:47:09.160
<v Speaker 1>drawn out conversation or anything.

0:47:10.120 --> 0:47:12.680
<v Speaker 2>I mean, that's interesting because you know, her mom says

0:47:12.760 --> 0:47:15.560
<v Speaker 2>that she didn't like blood, right, so one would think,

0:47:15.840 --> 0:47:17.920
<v Speaker 2>of course, I'm just imagining this. If you don't like blood,

0:47:17.960 --> 0:47:21.400
<v Speaker 2>you don't want to use a pad. And then you know,

0:47:21.440 --> 0:47:24.120
<v Speaker 2>of course don Wright said at the dairy Queen that

0:47:24.120 --> 0:47:27.960
<v Speaker 2>Anastagia got her period and she called her husband or

0:47:27.960 --> 0:47:30.719
<v Speaker 2>her husband brought don Wright first tells kill Gore a

0:47:30.760 --> 0:47:33.319
<v Speaker 2>pad that she gave Anastasia, and then at trial she

0:47:33.440 --> 0:47:35.520
<v Speaker 2>changes it. She says it's a tampon. She was too

0:47:35.560 --> 0:47:38.840
<v Speaker 2>embarrassed to say tampon to kill Gore, so she said pad.

0:47:39.239 --> 0:47:43.280
<v Speaker 1>I think don Wright is completely full of crap on everything.

0:47:43.360 --> 0:47:44.600
<v Speaker 1>I think she just doesn't.

0:47:44.840 --> 0:47:49.759
<v Speaker 2>I just wonder how she was found sadly dead in

0:47:49.840 --> 0:47:50.800
<v Speaker 2>a clean pad.

0:47:51.239 --> 0:47:53.120
<v Speaker 1>I wish I had the answer to that, and I

0:47:53.239 --> 0:47:58.000
<v Speaker 1>wish that so much stuff in this case. I wish

0:47:58.160 --> 0:48:02.200
<v Speaker 1>that the case hadn't been so fumbled. I wish that

0:48:02.239 --> 0:48:06.320
<v Speaker 1>they would have actually done their due diligence all that stuff,

0:48:06.360 --> 0:48:09.279
<v Speaker 1>because it wouldn't have taken this. It wouldn't taken this

0:48:09.480 --> 0:48:12.920
<v Speaker 1>long for the truth come out. It also wouldn't give

0:48:13.000 --> 0:48:17.080
<v Speaker 1>Byron a leg to stand on all his little indiscrepancies

0:48:17.120 --> 0:48:22.600
<v Speaker 1>that whatever. And I still do not understand their obsession

0:48:22.719 --> 0:48:25.919
<v Speaker 1>with the phone call. Did he say we should talk

0:48:25.960 --> 0:48:28.440
<v Speaker 1>about this? We shouldn't talk about this? To me? That

0:48:28.640 --> 0:48:31.040
<v Speaker 1>makes that makes no difference.

0:48:30.719 --> 0:48:35.400
<v Speaker 2>For the record. Did Amy McGowan have played any part

0:48:35.640 --> 0:48:39.040
<v Speaker 2>in you changing your story and pointing the finger at Byron?

0:48:39.239 --> 0:48:43.560
<v Speaker 2>Did she? Was there any funny business with Amy McGowan. No,

0:48:43.880 --> 0:48:46.399
<v Speaker 2>I don't even remember if I talked. I think maybe

0:48:46.480 --> 0:48:47.560
<v Speaker 2>I talked to her once.

0:48:47.760 --> 0:48:48.279
<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

0:48:48.840 --> 0:48:52.240
<v Speaker 2>Did Anastasia ever share with you any abuse that she suffered?

0:48:53.480 --> 0:48:58.279
<v Speaker 1>No, but we weren'tite close enough. I don't know that

0:48:58.400 --> 0:48:59.000
<v Speaker 1>she would.

0:48:59.520 --> 0:49:03.640
<v Speaker 2>You had the same attorney, John O'Connor as Bob Whitblesfugen

0:49:03.760 --> 0:49:06.680
<v Speaker 2>ended up having. Is there any connection there?

0:49:07.320 --> 0:49:12.360
<v Speaker 1>No, because the reason I got that lawyer was because

0:49:13.680 --> 0:49:19.719
<v Speaker 1>Maggie the Juggernauts alcohol counselor that I came forward to

0:49:20.680 --> 0:49:25.759
<v Speaker 1>she knew him, she knew that guy through her husband,

0:49:26.360 --> 0:49:30.279
<v Speaker 1>and like suggested it to my parents, I believe later on.

0:49:30.520 --> 0:49:33.640
<v Speaker 1>So that's bizarre, it's a it's coincidence.

0:49:33.840 --> 0:49:37.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you said it that You've like, you've said that

0:49:37.160 --> 0:49:41.160
<v Speaker 2>you have fought credibility issues. And one of the things

0:49:41.200 --> 0:49:44.160
<v Speaker 2>that Byron has said that I want to ask you

0:49:44.160 --> 0:49:47.440
<v Speaker 2>about is did there was a phone call that happened

0:49:47.840 --> 0:49:51.520
<v Speaker 2>where you call the police saying that Byron was suicidal?

0:49:51.520 --> 0:49:54.600
<v Speaker 1>Oh? God, yes, what do you have to say about that?

0:49:55.080 --> 0:50:01.480
<v Speaker 1>He's just a liar? He absolutely After I broke up

0:50:01.480 --> 0:50:04.799
<v Speaker 1>with him, he was not accepting it. He was I

0:50:04.840 --> 0:50:08.680
<v Speaker 1>believe he was like on drugs again. But he was

0:50:08.719 --> 0:50:12.920
<v Speaker 1>like taking pain pills or something. Yeah, And he would

0:50:13.760 --> 0:50:17.400
<v Speaker 1>call me and I would hang up on him, or

0:50:17.440 --> 0:50:19.120
<v Speaker 1>I would tell my mom to tell him that I

0:50:19.239 --> 0:50:22.759
<v Speaker 1>wasn't there. He finally got in touch with me and

0:50:22.840 --> 0:50:25.880
<v Speaker 1>flat out said if I don't have you, there's no

0:50:25.960 --> 0:50:29.680
<v Speaker 1>reason to go on blah blah blah and everything. And

0:50:29.719 --> 0:50:34.040
<v Speaker 1>I was like, so you're threatening suicide and he said, well, yeah, exactly,

0:50:34.160 --> 0:50:37.000
<v Speaker 1>isn't that. I don't know, Like, what are you an idiot? Yeah?

0:50:37.040 --> 0:50:39.520
<v Speaker 1>Of course that's what I'm doing. So I called, yes,

0:50:39.960 --> 0:50:42.040
<v Speaker 1>that happened. Why would I make that up?

0:50:54.840 --> 0:50:58.600
<v Speaker 2>So what do you say to the people that think

0:50:59.000 --> 0:51:03.360
<v Speaker 2>you have made up the story that Byron killed in

0:51:03.480 --> 0:51:03.840
<v Speaker 2>the station?

0:51:04.800 --> 0:51:09.640
<v Speaker 1>It makes no sense. It literally makes no sense. I

0:51:09.719 --> 0:51:12.600
<v Speaker 1>mean why would I Why would I think I was

0:51:12.640 --> 0:51:17.279
<v Speaker 1>getting immunity. I had been there, not done anything. That's

0:51:17.320 --> 0:51:19.840
<v Speaker 1>about as much of an as an accomplice as you

0:51:19.920 --> 0:51:24.640
<v Speaker 1>can get. People that do drugs, their nightmare is having

0:51:24.680 --> 0:51:27.200
<v Speaker 1>to talk to the police, you know what I mean.

0:51:28.080 --> 0:51:30.840
<v Speaker 1>Especially the drugs I was doing at the time, caused

0:51:30.840 --> 0:51:35.120
<v Speaker 1>a lot of paranoia, a lot of it makes no sense.

0:51:35.600 --> 0:51:38.799
<v Speaker 1>And get back at him for what I broke up

0:51:38.840 --> 0:51:43.280
<v Speaker 1>with him. I like I said, he never gave me money,

0:51:43.600 --> 0:51:46.680
<v Speaker 1>I never showered at his place. I don't know what

0:51:47.000 --> 0:51:50.319
<v Speaker 1>he's He's just he's in LaVall I am.

0:51:50.520 --> 0:51:52.560
<v Speaker 2>So when Jamie said that you would call the time

0:51:52.640 --> 0:51:53.480
<v Speaker 2>asking for things.

0:51:53.440 --> 0:51:58.160
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I don't know her. I don't. I don't. The

0:51:58.200 --> 0:52:01.760
<v Speaker 1>only time I've seen her is when they had her

0:52:02.360 --> 0:52:08.000
<v Speaker 1>talking about me basically being a character witness for uh.

0:52:08.680 --> 0:52:13.480
<v Speaker 1>Byron about me was on unlocking the truth, and I

0:52:13.520 --> 0:52:16.560
<v Speaker 1>was like, who the hell is this person? So what

0:52:17.080 --> 0:52:19.640
<v Speaker 1>I don't know what he's is he getting these people

0:52:19.680 --> 0:52:23.520
<v Speaker 1>to just say whatever? And it's so funny that all

0:52:23.600 --> 0:52:29.480
<v Speaker 1>of these friends that have all this supposed like information

0:52:29.640 --> 0:52:31.960
<v Speaker 1>on me and I called all the time and blah

0:52:31.960 --> 0:52:35.600
<v Speaker 1>blah blah blah, they became friends way after the fact,

0:52:36.200 --> 0:52:38.319
<v Speaker 1>after I had broken up with him and stuff. I

0:52:38.360 --> 0:52:41.839
<v Speaker 1>have no idea what she was talking about. I mean,

0:52:42.000 --> 0:52:45.720
<v Speaker 1>are there people out there that will just lie about

0:52:46.000 --> 0:52:48.719
<v Speaker 1>like a situation they know nothing about.

0:52:49.280 --> 0:52:53.080
<v Speaker 2>One listener wrote in and she is a recovering addict,

0:52:53.440 --> 0:52:57.200
<v Speaker 2>and she said that she had made up something for

0:52:57.280 --> 0:53:00.480
<v Speaker 2>attention and that she knew that especially women as have

0:53:00.560 --> 0:53:03.080
<v Speaker 2>been known to make up stories for attention.

0:53:04.160 --> 0:53:06.759
<v Speaker 1>That sounds like a buyer in person pretending to be

0:53:07.520 --> 0:53:08.640
<v Speaker 1>they do that stuff.

0:53:08.760 --> 0:53:12.960
<v Speaker 2>Anyway, What would you say to that, Did you make

0:53:13.040 --> 0:53:15.239
<v Speaker 2>up this story for attention and it got out of it,

0:53:15.239 --> 0:53:17.799
<v Speaker 2>got out of it, got away from you, like you know? No,

0:53:18.800 --> 0:53:22.120
<v Speaker 2>Like I said, if you make up something for attention,

0:53:22.280 --> 0:53:25.120
<v Speaker 2>it's something where you're going to get sympathy, not something

0:53:25.160 --> 0:53:27.880
<v Speaker 2>where you're possibly going to go to prison, and that

0:53:28.000 --> 0:53:30.440
<v Speaker 2>people are going to think you're an evil piece of shit.

0:53:31.000 --> 0:53:34.080
<v Speaker 2>Horton lance and is closing arguments suggested that the reason

0:53:34.160 --> 0:53:37.200
<v Speaker 2>you came forward was because I think he said, like,

0:53:37.239 --> 0:53:40.320
<v Speaker 2>there are two Kelley moffitts. There's one that is a

0:53:40.400 --> 0:53:42.799
<v Speaker 2>drug addict and doesn't have an excuse for it, and

0:53:42.840 --> 0:53:45.759
<v Speaker 2>then there's one that is a drug addict and has

0:53:45.800 --> 0:53:48.319
<v Speaker 2>an excuse, and it's because she witnessed this horrible thing.

0:53:48.880 --> 0:53:51.479
<v Speaker 2>And the reason you came forward is because it would

0:53:51.480 --> 0:53:54.399
<v Speaker 2>be a way for your parents to accept and help

0:53:54.440 --> 0:53:55.640
<v Speaker 2>you through.

0:53:57.000 --> 0:54:00.640
<v Speaker 1>Your addiction and stuff like that. He well, he does

0:54:00.680 --> 0:54:05.440
<v Speaker 1>not know my parents very well. That was never seen

0:54:05.560 --> 0:54:09.320
<v Speaker 1>as my parents aren't like that at all. Also, that's

0:54:09.400 --> 0:54:14.719
<v Speaker 1>not how recovery works. You're not like, oh you poor baby.

0:54:15.200 --> 0:54:18.880
<v Speaker 1>He would have never you know, touched drugs or alcohol

0:54:19.000 --> 0:54:22.760
<v Speaker 1>unless this poor thing hadn't happened to you, and stuff

0:54:22.840 --> 0:54:25.399
<v Speaker 1>like that. I mean, it even says in the Big

0:54:25.440 --> 0:54:30.120
<v Speaker 1>Book that people drink essentially because they like the effect

0:54:30.200 --> 0:54:35.040
<v Speaker 1>produced by alcohol and a story. You can have trauma

0:54:35.040 --> 0:54:39.880
<v Speaker 1>and other things that maybe you know, trigger the onset

0:54:39.920 --> 0:54:42.239
<v Speaker 1>of it and everything like that. But the fact of

0:54:42.280 --> 0:54:45.959
<v Speaker 1>the matter is people do drugs because they feel good,

0:54:46.640 --> 0:54:51.640
<v Speaker 1>and so that doesn't have Plus, I never like my

0:54:51.800 --> 0:54:55.880
<v Speaker 1>relationship with my parents. I still don't have the best

0:54:55.960 --> 0:55:01.960
<v Speaker 1>relationship with my family. They did not ever say, oh,

0:55:02.080 --> 0:55:05.200
<v Speaker 1>you poor thing, here come move back in the house,

0:55:05.239 --> 0:55:09.080
<v Speaker 1>and here's some money and here's some button. Never, it

0:55:09.120 --> 0:55:14.320
<v Speaker 1>was never like that, you know. It was just I

0:55:14.360 --> 0:55:16.920
<v Speaker 1>don't know, if anything, I think it changed how they

0:55:17.080 --> 0:55:21.120
<v Speaker 1>saw me, you know the fact that I didn't say

0:55:21.160 --> 0:55:23.480
<v Speaker 1>anything and I let that happen and stuff like that.

0:55:23.960 --> 0:55:27.120
<v Speaker 1>It was never you poor. I don't know. I don't

0:55:27.160 --> 0:55:29.160
<v Speaker 1>know whose family they think they're talking about. But I

0:55:29.239 --> 0:55:35.040
<v Speaker 1>was never seen as some poor like damsel in distress

0:55:35.080 --> 0:55:38.600
<v Speaker 1>that just had to drink because because that's not how

0:55:38.600 --> 0:55:41.120
<v Speaker 1>it works.

0:55:41.400 --> 0:55:45.040
<v Speaker 2>What do you think of the affidavits that Iron's legal

0:55:45.080 --> 0:55:48.640
<v Speaker 2>team has gotten, like from the judge from I mean,

0:55:48.680 --> 0:55:52.440
<v Speaker 2>the judge also allegedly wrote that letter to Evelyn k saying.

0:55:52.239 --> 0:55:54.240
<v Speaker 1>Like, I don't believe that letter exists.

0:55:54.600 --> 0:55:56.240
<v Speaker 2>It's on It's on Instagram.

0:55:56.400 --> 0:55:59.239
<v Speaker 1>If you want me to show it to you, poor Instagram, No.

0:55:59.360 --> 0:56:01.239
<v Speaker 2>Mind, I can show it to you. But I mean,

0:56:01.280 --> 0:56:04.400
<v Speaker 2>what do you think of the affidavits that judge Atwell,

0:56:05.360 --> 0:56:09.520
<v Speaker 2>doctor Thomas Young, and Horton Lance wrote Because you heard

0:56:09.560 --> 0:56:11.240
<v Speaker 2>you heard them read by actor.

0:56:11.480 --> 0:56:14.640
<v Speaker 1>Okay, first of all, I think the guy that was

0:56:14.760 --> 0:56:17.560
<v Speaker 1>totally on my side for instantly, and then all of

0:56:17.560 --> 0:56:21.760
<v Speaker 1>a sudden changed your mind. How doctor young? Yeah, aren't

0:56:21.800 --> 0:56:26.600
<v Speaker 1>these people extremely old? Now? I mean they're older? Yeah,

0:56:26.760 --> 0:56:29.799
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I don't. I have no idea. I think

0:56:30.000 --> 0:56:34.080
<v Speaker 1>here's the letter. That's the letter. I mean, I can

0:56:34.160 --> 0:56:37.880
<v Speaker 1>definitely see a judge getting older and maybe a little

0:56:37.880 --> 0:56:42.680
<v Speaker 1>befuddled and kind of questioning some stuff. But also, like

0:56:42.719 --> 0:56:46.800
<v Speaker 1>I said, whether he said we should or we shouldn't

0:56:46.840 --> 0:56:50.319
<v Speaker 1>talk about that, to me is a moot point. The

0:56:50.360 --> 0:56:54.960
<v Speaker 1>fact he never denied shit is the point of that.

0:56:55.840 --> 0:56:59.600
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, And Evelyn is so full of crap.

0:57:00.120 --> 0:57:02.360
<v Speaker 1>Need to read any more of that. I don't know

0:57:02.400 --> 0:57:06.399
<v Speaker 1>if the judge is old and confused or also, I mean,

0:57:06.520 --> 0:57:10.320
<v Speaker 1>being a judge and having that power in your hands

0:57:10.360 --> 0:57:13.120
<v Speaker 1>to send somebody away for the rest of their life.

0:57:13.320 --> 0:57:16.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure you're gonna second guess yourself. I'm sure you're gonna.

0:57:16.960 --> 0:57:20.720
<v Speaker 1>I don't think it means much at anything. Also, he

0:57:20.880 --> 0:57:23.040
<v Speaker 1>was the judge, he wasn't the jury.

0:57:23.640 --> 0:57:26.440
<v Speaker 2>What do you make of the Kansas City Police crime

0:57:26.520 --> 0:57:31.320
<v Speaker 2>lab now saying that they believe there could be a

0:57:31.400 --> 0:57:34.160
<v Speaker 2>chance that Anastasia was lying down when she was shot.

0:57:34.600 --> 0:57:36.800
<v Speaker 1>That sounds really weird to me because I was there

0:57:36.840 --> 0:57:42.720
<v Speaker 1>and she was not lying down. How would you Plus also, okay,

0:57:42.720 --> 0:57:47.240
<v Speaker 1>if that's true, how do you get somebody to lie

0:57:47.400 --> 0:57:52.280
<v Speaker 1>down and you stick a gun literally on their nose?

0:57:52.360 --> 0:57:54.439
<v Speaker 1>How do you get? What do you? Because she didn't

0:57:54.440 --> 0:57:57.880
<v Speaker 1>try to get away? They said she had a contact wound. No,

0:57:58.200 --> 0:58:01.360
<v Speaker 1>she was never at any point line down. And then

0:58:01.400 --> 0:58:06.800
<v Speaker 1>also now that they're relying on now, also their defense

0:58:07.040 --> 0:58:12.120
<v Speaker 1>changes constantly, which to me also is a red flag.

0:58:12.480 --> 0:58:15.680
<v Speaker 1>They're just grasping its straws. I feel like, did you

0:58:16.080 --> 0:58:19.200
<v Speaker 1>get any of the reward money? No? When I never

0:58:19.240 --> 0:58:24.800
<v Speaker 1>even tried to. They tried to say that I wanted

0:58:24.800 --> 0:58:29.040
<v Speaker 1>their reward money, but there was some like a loophole

0:58:29.200 --> 0:58:32.560
<v Speaker 1>where I wouldn't I couldn't get it or something. Isn't

0:58:32.600 --> 0:58:35.200
<v Speaker 1>that on file that I never even I didn't know

0:58:35.400 --> 0:58:39.920
<v Speaker 1>about the reward money. I remember there being posters or

0:58:39.960 --> 0:58:43.560
<v Speaker 1>something a long time ago, but I do not remember

0:58:43.880 --> 0:58:46.960
<v Speaker 1>the whole reward money thing, and I certainly had no

0:58:47.080 --> 0:58:47.760
<v Speaker 1>interest in it.

0:58:48.200 --> 0:58:52.360
<v Speaker 2>Did prosecutors show you crime scene photos of Anastasia so

0:58:52.400 --> 0:58:56.840
<v Speaker 2>that you could hone your story to describe how she

0:58:57.000 --> 0:58:57.480
<v Speaker 2>was found?

0:58:57.840 --> 0:59:01.880
<v Speaker 1>No? I've never even seen the crime photos. I'm glad

0:59:01.960 --> 0:59:04.840
<v Speaker 1>that I've never seen them because that sounds horrific. Yeah,

0:59:04.840 --> 0:59:07.240
<v Speaker 1>they're not They're very upsetting.

0:59:08.400 --> 0:59:11.800
<v Speaker 2>What do you think about the possibility that Byron could

0:59:11.840 --> 0:59:12.600
<v Speaker 2>get a new trial.

0:59:13.160 --> 0:59:17.680
<v Speaker 1>I'm curious as to why do we know why? Because

0:59:17.720 --> 0:59:21.080
<v Speaker 1>the Jackson County Prosecutor has told me that that's about

0:59:21.080 --> 0:59:24.240
<v Speaker 1>as far fetched as he does not see that happening.

0:59:24.920 --> 0:59:29.800
<v Speaker 2>I mean, they definitely allege Brady violations. And this is

0:59:29.840 --> 0:59:33.920
<v Speaker 2>going off of like Horton Lance's Affidavid right, So he

0:59:34.000 --> 0:59:37.160
<v Speaker 2>said something like one hundred and forty emails from Bob existed,

0:59:37.240 --> 0:59:39.840
<v Speaker 2>only ten were turned over. So I think all I'm

0:59:39.840 --> 0:59:42.360
<v Speaker 2>saying is I think that they say that there are

0:59:42.400 --> 0:59:45.440
<v Speaker 2>these Brady violations. I think that's one of the ways

0:59:45.440 --> 0:59:48.040
<v Speaker 2>that they're hoping that there could be a new trial.

0:59:48.320 --> 0:59:52.120
<v Speaker 2>And so your reaction to the possibility of a new trial.

0:59:52.000 --> 0:59:58.280
<v Speaker 1>Is bring it. I've told I told the Jackson County prosecutor.

0:59:58.760 --> 1:00:03.680
<v Speaker 1>I told Innastasia's family or whatever they need. If we

1:00:03.760 --> 1:00:06.640
<v Speaker 1>need to go back to court and I testify, I

1:00:06.680 --> 1:00:10.840
<v Speaker 1>have to testify against him again. I am no longer

1:00:11.840 --> 1:00:16.840
<v Speaker 1>a teenager. I'm no one. I mean, no, there's the

1:00:16.880 --> 1:00:20.320
<v Speaker 1>whole thing just seems ridiculous to me. They're not gonna

1:00:20.840 --> 1:00:23.520
<v Speaker 1>and the first time it certainly didn't go well for him.

1:00:23.600 --> 1:00:27.320
<v Speaker 1>So I'm not scared of Byron anymore. In fact, like

1:00:27.360 --> 1:00:30.040
<v Speaker 1>I said, being an adult now and looking back at

1:00:30.040 --> 1:00:33.800
<v Speaker 1>that relationship and stuff, I just I think he's creepy

1:00:33.800 --> 1:00:38.520
<v Speaker 1>and pathetic. He'll turn into anything to anybody to try

1:00:38.560 --> 1:00:41.880
<v Speaker 1>to get whatever he wants. I think if he ever

1:00:41.920 --> 1:00:45.040
<v Speaker 1>got a new trial, he's gonna be very sorry. There's

1:00:45.080 --> 1:00:48.600
<v Speaker 1>that girl that was threatened, the terror told, There's all

1:00:48.720 --> 1:00:51.720
<v Speaker 1>kinds of other stuff.

1:01:01.600 --> 1:01:04.480
<v Speaker 2>Why do you think there are so many unanswered questions

1:01:04.520 --> 1:01:05.000
<v Speaker 2>for people?

1:01:06.040 --> 1:01:09.520
<v Speaker 1>Well, first of all because Byron's always playing this martyr

1:01:09.600 --> 1:01:14.520
<v Speaker 1>stuff where he compares himself to Damien Eckles whatever, which

1:01:14.600 --> 1:01:19.920
<v Speaker 1>is completely just whatever Byron. It's also, I think because

1:01:19.960 --> 1:01:24.440
<v Speaker 1>it's just so bizarre because it was literally a killing

1:01:24.480 --> 1:01:29.240
<v Speaker 1>that happened for not like no gain, no financial gain,

1:01:29.320 --> 1:01:33.760
<v Speaker 1>no anything. It was just that it was just like

1:01:33.800 --> 1:01:36.480
<v Speaker 1>a thrill kill, like Byron always wanted to know what

1:01:36.520 --> 1:01:41.240
<v Speaker 1>it was like to kill somebody. And then I don't know,

1:01:41.280 --> 1:01:42.880
<v Speaker 1>what do you think do you think that's part of it?

1:01:42.880 --> 1:01:46.880
<v Speaker 1>It's just so nonsensical, and then the people involved are

1:01:46.880 --> 1:01:50.720
<v Speaker 1>so bizarre. Byron's extremely bizarre, and how he comes off

1:01:51.200 --> 1:01:57.080
<v Speaker 1>his mom Bob. Just there's so many things that play

1:01:57.200 --> 1:01:57.960
<v Speaker 1>that people are.

1:01:57.800 --> 1:02:01.080
<v Speaker 2>Like, what, why do you think in Stasia was murdered?

1:02:01.240 --> 1:02:03.440
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you said it's a real kill. Do you

1:02:04.000 --> 1:02:08.680
<v Speaker 2>think that Justin said it in sort of a way

1:02:09.480 --> 1:02:12.320
<v Speaker 2>but never meant for it to actually happen. Why do

1:02:12.360 --> 1:02:13.880
<v Speaker 2>you think Anastasia was murdered?

1:02:14.680 --> 1:02:19.080
<v Speaker 1>God, I wish I knew. I have no idea. I mean,

1:02:19.120 --> 1:02:21.080
<v Speaker 1>like I said, I was at school and they were

1:02:21.200 --> 1:02:26.520
<v Speaker 1>alone for several days together doing acid or masculine or whatever.

1:02:27.080 --> 1:02:30.160
<v Speaker 1>I think she's dead because Byron always wondered what it

1:02:30.200 --> 1:02:34.120
<v Speaker 1>was like to kill somebody. Justin was just sick enough

1:02:34.200 --> 1:02:39.040
<v Speaker 1>to get pulled into that, because it just it makes

1:02:39.240 --> 1:02:44.040
<v Speaker 1>no sense, like Justin like and she wasn't even It's

1:02:44.040 --> 1:02:48.160
<v Speaker 1>not like she was dangerous and stalking him. I just

1:02:48.280 --> 1:02:52.440
<v Speaker 1>I truly don't know. It reminds me a lot of

1:02:54.080 --> 1:02:58.080
<v Speaker 1>do you remember this case. It's a very old true

1:02:58.800 --> 1:03:02.840
<v Speaker 1>true crime case of Leopold and Lobe. There was two

1:03:02.920 --> 1:03:07.680
<v Speaker 1>young rich guys. Yeah, they had just one of them

1:03:07.880 --> 1:03:11.560
<v Speaker 1>had always wanted to know what it was like to

1:03:11.640 --> 1:03:14.960
<v Speaker 1>kill somebody and they just I don't know, because Byron

1:03:15.160 --> 1:03:17.000
<v Speaker 1>was just not And that's one of the things that

1:03:17.080 --> 1:03:21.440
<v Speaker 1>made me so mad that he's using the whole oh

1:03:21.520 --> 1:03:24.760
<v Speaker 1>the gothing, all the blah blah blah. No, I mean,

1:03:24.880 --> 1:03:28.040
<v Speaker 1>he wasn't just goth. He was obsessed with that stuff.

1:03:28.360 --> 1:03:33.760
<v Speaker 1>And that's a huge that's completely different. He told me,

1:03:34.840 --> 1:03:37.880
<v Speaker 1>And I'm sorry, I apologize this is graphic or if

1:03:37.880 --> 1:03:42.480
<v Speaker 1>I already said it or whatever. He said. He figured

1:03:42.520 --> 1:03:46.920
<v Speaker 1>out that one of the quickest ways for him to

1:03:47.520 --> 1:03:50.560
<v Speaker 1>whatever when he was masturbating was to like do it

1:03:50.600 --> 1:03:55.240
<v Speaker 1>over dead animals and stuff like that. That was one

1:03:55.280 --> 1:03:57.840
<v Speaker 1>of the things that he told me later. And like

1:03:57.880 --> 1:04:01.360
<v Speaker 1>I said, he told me that he had participated in

1:04:01.400 --> 1:04:05.520
<v Speaker 1>necrophilia and stuff. I mean, he wasn't just this wasn't

1:04:05.600 --> 1:04:11.360
<v Speaker 1>just like his screensaver was this awful crime scene photo

1:04:11.440 --> 1:04:14.479
<v Speaker 1>of this woman that had been hacked up. Like he

1:04:14.880 --> 1:04:19.120
<v Speaker 1>it wasn't. This wasn't just somebody you know, listening to

1:04:19.160 --> 1:04:23.080
<v Speaker 1>some goth music and blah blah blah. He put a

1:04:23.600 --> 1:04:27.440
<v Speaker 1>rotting chicken carcass on his car and thought it was funny.

1:04:27.480 --> 1:04:30.160
<v Speaker 1>He just wasn't. It was it was to a whole

1:04:30.200 --> 1:04:34.840
<v Speaker 1>nother level. This wasn't a goth person. This was someone

1:04:34.960 --> 1:04:42.440
<v Speaker 1>absolutely obsessed with death and control and suffering. And you

1:04:42.440 --> 1:04:44.320
<v Speaker 1>know you did?

1:04:44.480 --> 1:04:49.080
<v Speaker 2>You loved him? I fourteen year old side, fifteen year

1:04:49.120 --> 1:04:49.560
<v Speaker 2>old self.

1:04:49.680 --> 1:04:52.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I don't think I have You don't think you

1:04:52.480 --> 1:04:58.160
<v Speaker 1>have the capacity for love at that age. But I

1:04:58.160 --> 1:05:02.200
<v Speaker 1>I liked I liked the attention, he had a car.

1:05:02.760 --> 1:05:05.320
<v Speaker 1>He made me feel better about myself after all the

1:05:05.360 --> 1:05:08.960
<v Speaker 1>stuff that had happened. The more I got to know him,

1:05:08.960 --> 1:05:10.200
<v Speaker 1>the less I liked him.

1:05:10.880 --> 1:05:13.000
<v Speaker 2>Why did you stay with him as long as you

1:05:13.080 --> 1:05:14.640
<v Speaker 2>did after the murder?

1:05:15.320 --> 1:05:17.240
<v Speaker 1>Well, I mean, first off, he told me that it

1:05:17.280 --> 1:05:21.600
<v Speaker 1>would look really bad, it would look really weird if

1:05:21.640 --> 1:05:26.800
<v Speaker 1>we instantly broke up. And also I was just scared.

1:05:27.400 --> 1:05:31.480
<v Speaker 1>I didn't know what to do because I didn't I

1:05:31.560 --> 1:05:36.479
<v Speaker 1>wasn't completely ready to come forward yet, but I had

1:05:36.600 --> 1:05:40.120
<v Speaker 1>just like tremendous guilt. Also, he had been my first

1:05:40.160 --> 1:05:44.680
<v Speaker 1>serious boyfriend. Justin was gone, you know, Staga was gone.

1:05:44.720 --> 1:05:50.000
<v Speaker 1>I just felt trapped. And believe me, they weren't good years.

1:05:50.440 --> 1:05:52.680
<v Speaker 1>He talks about me. I think it's so funny, like

1:05:53.360 --> 1:05:57.760
<v Speaker 1>in his stuff about me, he's like and yet again,

1:05:58.000 --> 1:06:01.280
<v Speaker 1>Kelly had been on faithful blah blah blah. He's talking

1:06:01.720 --> 1:06:05.320
<v Speaker 1>like I was like a thirty five year old person

1:06:05.360 --> 1:06:07.959
<v Speaker 1>that had been married to him for years but kept

1:06:07.960 --> 1:06:13.400
<v Speaker 1>doing all these diabolical things. For I was fifteen and

1:06:14.440 --> 1:06:17.560
<v Speaker 1>actually and I was pulling away from him, and I

1:06:17.640 --> 1:06:20.960
<v Speaker 1>was finding people that were age appropriate, that were interested

1:06:21.000 --> 1:06:26.160
<v Speaker 1>in me. That's not infidelity and manipulation. That's growing up

1:06:26.400 --> 1:06:29.760
<v Speaker 1>and stuff and just getting It's just so weird how

1:06:29.800 --> 1:06:33.720
<v Speaker 1>he sees stuff. He assigns all this stuff to me

1:06:34.160 --> 1:06:38.560
<v Speaker 1>that is so calculated and so whatever, and it's not.

1:06:39.880 --> 1:06:44.520
<v Speaker 1>I am not that complicated. I'm really not. How on

1:06:44.680 --> 1:06:47.600
<v Speaker 1>earth did I know if I supposedly came forward to

1:06:47.600 --> 1:06:50.440
<v Speaker 1>get back at him, I didn't know how that was

1:06:50.480 --> 1:06:53.320
<v Speaker 1>going to go if that was my I mean, it's

1:06:53.400 --> 1:06:57.640
<v Speaker 1>just so stupid. Oh oops, I put myself in prison

1:06:57.720 --> 1:07:02.680
<v Speaker 1>for twenty years now. It's just crazy.

1:07:06.960 --> 1:07:11.080
<v Speaker 2>How has life been for you since coming forward?

1:07:11.400 --> 1:07:13.880
<v Speaker 1>Since all of this? Really, Oh god, that's a long

1:07:13.920 --> 1:07:17.800
<v Speaker 1>time ago. I wish I could say it has been better.

1:07:18.800 --> 1:07:23.439
<v Speaker 1>It's been I don't. It's been up and down. It's

1:07:23.480 --> 1:07:28.240
<v Speaker 1>also it sucks that anytime I get involved with somebody

1:07:28.760 --> 1:07:31.440
<v Speaker 1>on a very deep level, whether that be like a

1:07:31.520 --> 1:07:37.120
<v Speaker 1>friend an employee, like you know, a love interest and

1:07:37.200 --> 1:07:40.200
<v Speaker 1>stuff that I have to take, you know, like if

1:07:40.200 --> 1:07:43.240
<v Speaker 1>you google me, this is what you're gonna find. That's

1:07:43.320 --> 1:07:45.760
<v Speaker 1>been you know. But I knew, I knew that that

1:07:46.000 --> 1:07:49.200
<v Speaker 1>was going to come with the territory. But it's just

1:07:49.320 --> 1:07:53.400
<v Speaker 1>I still I don't think I'm ever gonna why I

1:07:53.480 --> 1:07:55.600
<v Speaker 1>wrote you that in an email, I don't think I'm

1:07:55.600 --> 1:07:58.160
<v Speaker 1>ever going to see myself as a good person ever again.

1:07:58.920 --> 1:08:00.440
<v Speaker 1>And that was one of the reasons. That's why I

1:08:00.480 --> 1:08:04.160
<v Speaker 1>wish that before coming here, I had set up where

1:08:04.160 --> 1:08:08.680
<v Speaker 1>you could talk to my trauma therapist and rehab and stuff,

1:08:08.800 --> 1:08:12.520
<v Speaker 1>because she just a ton of the work that she

1:08:13.440 --> 1:08:17.360
<v Speaker 1>did with me was being like, it's not your fault,

1:08:17.439 --> 1:08:20.400
<v Speaker 1>it's not your fault. You were fifteen, you weren't evil,

1:08:20.600 --> 1:08:23.519
<v Speaker 1>you weren't blah blah. And I still don't even I

1:08:23.560 --> 1:08:25.960
<v Speaker 1>don't think anybody's ever going to convince me of that.

1:08:26.960 --> 1:08:29.560
<v Speaker 1>I mean, like I said, she just she was a

1:08:29.640 --> 1:08:32.080
<v Speaker 1>kid who thought she was hanging out with their friends.

1:08:32.680 --> 1:08:34.920
<v Speaker 1>She didn't do anything. She didn't even do anything to me.

1:08:35.680 --> 1:08:38.760
<v Speaker 1>She didn't do anything to Byron other than he just

1:08:38.800 --> 1:08:41.960
<v Speaker 1>didn't like her. And I think he wanted her out

1:08:42.040 --> 1:08:44.520
<v Speaker 1>of the way so that he could take full advantage

1:08:44.560 --> 1:08:49.800
<v Speaker 1>of Justine. I mean, I just can't just terrifying how

1:08:49.880 --> 1:08:53.759
<v Speaker 1>fragile life is and how you know, I just can't.

1:08:53.960 --> 1:08:55.799
<v Speaker 1>And like I said, I have a daughter who's twenty

1:08:55.840 --> 1:09:00.240
<v Speaker 1>one now, and if she you know, gott in her

1:09:00.400 --> 1:09:04.400
<v Speaker 1>with her friends and they just you know, just killed her.

1:09:04.640 --> 1:09:08.200
<v Speaker 1>I I don't know, it's just not supposed to happen.

1:09:10.200 --> 1:09:14.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I hope you can get to a place where

1:09:14.200 --> 1:09:15.360
<v Speaker 2>you do forgive yourself.

1:09:17.240 --> 1:09:19.360
<v Speaker 1>I hope. I don't know. I have good days and

1:09:19.400 --> 1:09:23.360
<v Speaker 1>I have bad days. Yeah, he's still of course, I

1:09:23.360 --> 1:09:26.240
<v Speaker 1>don't think I'm ever not gonna have nightmarees over stuff.

1:09:26.439 --> 1:09:29.960
<v Speaker 1>And that's one of the things that makes me so

1:09:30.120 --> 1:09:32.120
<v Speaker 1>mad too about Byron.

1:09:32.800 --> 1:09:33.360
<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

1:09:35.479 --> 1:09:38.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he used to make fun of me for alupset

1:09:39.040 --> 1:09:46.880
<v Speaker 1>I was about stuff. I don't know. I don't know

1:09:46.920 --> 1:09:50.760
<v Speaker 1>why he took me even, maybe he thought that was

1:09:50.800 --> 1:09:54.320
<v Speaker 1>gonna bond me to him or I don't yeah, why

1:09:54.520 --> 1:09:59.559
<v Speaker 1>bring you? Yeah, I'm just another leg of send I've

1:09:59.600 --> 1:10:02.240
<v Speaker 1>been trying to figure that out for a really long time.

1:10:05.040 --> 1:10:07.040
<v Speaker 1>And I'm glad that, you know, I came here and

1:10:07.120 --> 1:10:10.880
<v Speaker 1>talked to you and stuff, but I just won Have

1:10:10.960 --> 1:10:16.040
<v Speaker 1>you seen that movie that I turned all Sunshine of

1:10:16.120 --> 1:10:20.000
<v Speaker 1>the Spotless Mind. I just watched that and I was

1:10:20.160 --> 1:10:24.760
<v Speaker 1>just like, God, it was that was real because I've

1:10:24.960 --> 1:10:27.920
<v Speaker 1>never since, you know, since all has happened when I

1:10:27.960 --> 1:10:30.360
<v Speaker 1>was fourteen, I have never had a time in my

1:10:30.479 --> 1:10:35.400
<v Speaker 1>life where I didn't just have this. It's a horrible

1:10:35.600 --> 1:10:43.040
<v Speaker 1>sense of like guilt and dread and self loathing. I'm sorry,

1:10:44.640 --> 1:10:51.000
<v Speaker 1>It's okay. I should have said something. I don't know what. God,

1:10:51.080 --> 1:10:55.080
<v Speaker 1>I don't know why I didn't say anything, and I

1:10:55.120 --> 1:10:57.519
<v Speaker 1>also wanted to talk to you, you know, if there's

1:10:57.560 --> 1:11:01.240
<v Speaker 1>anybody out there listening to this, because you know, I've

1:11:01.280 --> 1:11:04.920
<v Speaker 1>seen other cases kind of similar on dateline and stuff,

1:11:04.960 --> 1:11:09.360
<v Speaker 1>and I don't know, even if you think somebody's joking

1:11:09.479 --> 1:11:13.240
<v Speaker 1>around about something like that, it is not normal to

1:11:13.400 --> 1:11:19.160
<v Speaker 1>joke around about killing someone, you know, was I Was

1:11:19.200 --> 1:11:22.320
<v Speaker 1>I what you expected at all? Or did you? Because

1:11:22.320 --> 1:11:24.439
<v Speaker 1>that's one of the things too, is I just want

1:11:24.840 --> 1:11:28.360
<v Speaker 1>I don't Byron and his people just portray me as

1:11:28.479 --> 1:11:28.920
<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

1:11:30.000 --> 1:11:34.200
<v Speaker 2>So I think you know I said it too from

1:11:34.240 --> 1:11:36.160
<v Speaker 2>the very beginning. I think when I wrote to you

1:11:36.680 --> 1:11:37.639
<v Speaker 2>more than a year ago.

1:11:38.280 --> 1:11:40.680
<v Speaker 1>God, I can't believe it's been the home that.

1:11:40.680 --> 1:11:45.400
<v Speaker 2>I was going into this story just looking for the truth.

1:11:46.240 --> 1:11:48.680
<v Speaker 2>And you know, I'm glad you listened to all the

1:11:48.720 --> 1:11:52.520
<v Speaker 2>episodes before agreeing to sit down, because it was important

1:11:52.640 --> 1:11:55.200
<v Speaker 2>for you to hear that and also have confidence in

1:11:55.240 --> 1:11:58.240
<v Speaker 2>what I was saying that. You know, I'm just looking

1:11:58.439 --> 1:12:02.640
<v Speaker 2>for the truth. So are you what I expected? I

1:12:02.680 --> 1:12:04.760
<v Speaker 2>feel like I've gotten to know you a little bit

1:12:04.800 --> 1:12:07.360
<v Speaker 2>through your emails as weird as I.

1:12:07.280 --> 1:12:09.040
<v Speaker 1>Mean, you've been hard on me, even though it's up

1:12:09.080 --> 1:12:12.280
<v Speaker 1>and down. Yeah, well, I mean you have to realize too,

1:12:12.360 --> 1:12:16.160
<v Speaker 1>We've had people with horrible like I said, like Byron's

1:12:16.240 --> 1:12:18.800
<v Speaker 1>legal team would contact me and be like, well, I

1:12:19.000 --> 1:12:21.439
<v Speaker 1>just want to talk for a little bit. No, they

1:12:21.479 --> 1:12:22.559
<v Speaker 1>want to ambush me.

1:12:22.840 --> 1:12:24.519
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I was nervous for you to come today.

1:12:24.520 --> 1:12:26.280
<v Speaker 2>I was like, I don't I don't know how this

1:12:26.400 --> 1:12:28.200
<v Speaker 2>is going to go. I know that I just wanted

1:12:28.200 --> 1:12:33.000
<v Speaker 2>to have a conversation. Is there anything that you want

1:12:33.000 --> 1:12:36.120
<v Speaker 2>to ask or say or share that I haven't asked?

1:12:36.160 --> 1:12:40.799
<v Speaker 2>You do have anything you want to say to Byron?

1:12:41.920 --> 1:12:44.679
<v Speaker 1>Oh? God, I think about that a lot. He can

1:12:44.720 --> 1:12:48.880
<v Speaker 1>make up stories and when he's alone in his cell

1:12:48.960 --> 1:12:53.680
<v Speaker 1>at night. He knows he murdered her. He knows it,

1:12:54.160 --> 1:12:58.400
<v Speaker 1>he knows this is all complete crap. I just don't understand.

1:12:58.880 --> 1:13:04.519
<v Speaker 1>I was always waiting for him to I don't know, something,

1:13:04.560 --> 1:13:08.680
<v Speaker 1>to crack something to I mean, it's how exhausting to

1:13:08.680 --> 1:13:12.599
<v Speaker 1>put up this charade for so long. I always thought

1:13:12.840 --> 1:13:16.799
<v Speaker 1>maybe there was a chance that he would just accept

1:13:16.840 --> 1:13:19.759
<v Speaker 1>his fate and do his time with dignity and leave

1:13:19.880 --> 1:13:24.280
<v Speaker 1>her family alone. And I just don't think that. I

1:13:24.320 --> 1:13:28.360
<v Speaker 1>don't wrong. Boy, was I wrong. I mean, I think

1:13:28.400 --> 1:13:32.559
<v Speaker 1>he's gonna just I don't know, till the day he dies,

1:13:32.720 --> 1:13:35.920
<v Speaker 1>he's gonna be just. I think he's just gonna be

1:13:35.920 --> 1:13:39.080
<v Speaker 1>completely full of shit till the day dies. And to me,

1:13:39.280 --> 1:13:43.439
<v Speaker 1>that's just that's terrifying that he's capable of doing that.

1:13:45.000 --> 1:13:48.280
<v Speaker 2>You know, I'm interviewing. I'm doing like a final interview

1:13:48.360 --> 1:13:49.840
<v Speaker 2>with his legal team tomorrow.

1:13:51.960 --> 1:13:53.960
<v Speaker 1>They're in. They're infuriating me.

1:13:54.120 --> 1:14:05.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't know anything you want me to say to them.

1:14:01.320 --> 1:14:08.400
<v Speaker 1>Just because an investigation wasn't done perfectly and this, that

1:14:08.479 --> 1:14:12.160
<v Speaker 1>and the other. And I get it as like legal

1:14:12.320 --> 1:14:15.760
<v Speaker 1>people and people that want everything to go by the

1:14:15.840 --> 1:14:18.519
<v Speaker 1>letter of the law. I'm sure a lot of things

1:14:18.560 --> 1:14:23.920
<v Speaker 1>in this trial and uh, the investigation were really fucked up.

1:14:25.040 --> 1:14:28.679
<v Speaker 1>That doesn't that I mean, that doesn't mean a person

1:14:28.760 --> 1:14:33.280
<v Speaker 1>is innocent. And maybe they don't care. These aren't just

1:14:33.680 --> 1:14:39.120
<v Speaker 1>laws and you know, loopholes, and these are people. These

1:14:39.120 --> 1:14:42.880
<v Speaker 1>are people. I wish just as bad as they had,

1:14:42.960 --> 1:14:49.639
<v Speaker 1>that you know, the investigation had gone smoother, and that

1:14:49.640 --> 1:14:56.280
<v Speaker 1>that kil Gore hadn't been like lazy or whatever. I

1:14:56.320 --> 1:15:00.760
<v Speaker 1>don't know, I just don't. And they they also seem

1:15:00.800 --> 1:15:03.760
<v Speaker 1>to be making it more about them, like if they're

1:15:03.800 --> 1:15:08.320
<v Speaker 1>going to get their name out there as like, I mean,

1:15:08.360 --> 1:15:10.560
<v Speaker 1>what do they want to make a name for themselves

1:15:10.560 --> 1:15:14.200
<v Speaker 1>in the legal world? Is like we I don't.

1:15:13.960 --> 1:15:20.280
<v Speaker 2>Know, because they have alleged that you don't tell the truth.

1:15:21.960 --> 1:15:24.639
<v Speaker 2>Have you told me the complete truth today?

1:15:25.320 --> 1:15:30.320
<v Speaker 1>Oh? Absolutely, yeah, I don't tell the complete truth. Even

1:15:30.360 --> 1:15:34.400
<v Speaker 1>though this has like I said, this is I didn't

1:15:34.479 --> 1:15:38.400
<v Speaker 1>paint myself in a good light coming forward because it

1:15:38.479 --> 1:15:42.400
<v Speaker 1>wasn't about that. I get Facebook messages all the time

1:15:43.400 --> 1:15:46.240
<v Speaker 1>like you should have gone to prison just right along

1:15:46.280 --> 1:15:49.480
<v Speaker 1>with them and stuff, and to that I say, yeah

1:15:49.640 --> 1:15:52.880
<v Speaker 1>that actually, I probably my life might have been a

1:15:52.880 --> 1:15:57.080
<v Speaker 1>little bit better because or I would have or something,

1:15:57.680 --> 1:15:59.960
<v Speaker 1>or maybe then some of my guilt would go away

1:16:00.080 --> 1:16:02.840
<v Speaker 1>because I had been punished in some way. I just don't.

1:16:03.280 --> 1:16:07.840
<v Speaker 2>After Byron got arrested and was in jail, I think

1:16:07.920 --> 1:16:12.160
<v Speaker 2>you called Evelyn and said to Evelyn, I should be

1:16:12.200 --> 1:16:17.800
<v Speaker 2>there with him. A quick reminder in episode five, I

1:16:17.880 --> 1:16:20.759
<v Speaker 2>shared what Evelyn said on the stand in two thousand

1:16:20.760 --> 1:16:25.479
<v Speaker 2>and two about this. Evelyn testified about a month after

1:16:25.560 --> 1:16:29.320
<v Speaker 2>Byron was arrested. Kelly called her, and the first thing

1:16:29.400 --> 1:16:34.160
<v Speaker 2>Kelly said was, quote, this is insane, according to Evelyn.

1:16:34.600 --> 1:16:37.800
<v Speaker 2>Kelly went on to say, quote, I'm an accomplice. I'm

1:16:37.800 --> 1:16:41.400
<v Speaker 2>an accomplice. But since I told I got they gave

1:16:41.479 --> 1:16:45.479
<v Speaker 2>me part immunity. Kelly also said quote I should be

1:16:45.520 --> 1:16:48.400
<v Speaker 2>in jail with him, and I'm ready to go in jail.

1:16:48.800 --> 1:16:51.080
<v Speaker 2>Know what you were saying is I feel as guilty.

1:16:51.800 --> 1:16:54.719
<v Speaker 2>I feel guilty too, and we should both be there.

1:16:55.439 --> 1:16:58.320
<v Speaker 1>Well yeah, and also like I said, like, I'm why

1:16:58.320 --> 1:17:02.679
<v Speaker 1>didn't you kill me too? Please? Or else? I've switched

1:17:02.720 --> 1:17:07.000
<v Speaker 1>places for just any I mean, what I did was

1:17:07.840 --> 1:17:13.880
<v Speaker 1>completely wrong, and that's how things like the Holocaust happen,

1:17:14.560 --> 1:17:19.719
<v Speaker 1>and that's how you know, horrible things happen is when

1:17:21.439 --> 1:17:25.679
<v Speaker 1>people don't say anything, or people just you know, don't

1:17:25.720 --> 1:17:28.840
<v Speaker 1>want to cause the stir. They don't say anything, or

1:17:29.760 --> 1:17:32.360
<v Speaker 1>they've never really done anything like that before, so whatever.

1:17:32.520 --> 1:17:34.880
<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's just That's another reason why I wanted

1:17:34.920 --> 1:17:39.120
<v Speaker 1>to do your podcast and stuff is just say something,

1:17:40.080 --> 1:17:42.400
<v Speaker 1>because if you think you're taking the easier way out

1:17:42.479 --> 1:17:45.680
<v Speaker 1>by not saying something, and you have any kind of

1:17:45.680 --> 1:17:50.519
<v Speaker 1>a conscience, you'll just be eating alive. What is that

1:17:50.640 --> 1:17:54.920
<v Speaker 1>quote like in order for the only or one of

1:17:54.960 --> 1:17:57.360
<v Speaker 1>the main ways for evil to happen is for good

1:17:57.400 --> 1:18:01.360
<v Speaker 1>men to say nothing or something. Oh, yeah, definitely.

1:18:02.920 --> 1:18:05.040
<v Speaker 2>Is there anything else that you can think of that

1:18:05.080 --> 1:18:08.040
<v Speaker 2>you want to share?

1:18:11.360 --> 1:18:21.280
<v Speaker 1>No, I just oh and younger girls, if there is

1:18:21.320 --> 1:18:26.479
<v Speaker 1>an adult man interested in you and you know you

1:18:27.280 --> 1:18:31.200
<v Speaker 1>I looked a little bit older than my age. But yeah,

1:18:31.479 --> 1:18:36.360
<v Speaker 1>there's not. That is not a compliment and you should

1:18:36.439 --> 1:18:42.200
<v Speaker 1>run the other direction. There's no no decent eighteen nineteen

1:18:42.280 --> 1:18:46.959
<v Speaker 1>year old wants anything to do with a middle schooler.

1:18:48.760 --> 1:18:53.120
<v Speaker 2>Is there anything you want to stay to Anastatia's family.

1:18:54.000 --> 1:18:55.680
<v Speaker 2>I know you have a I know you have a

1:18:55.720 --> 1:18:59.280
<v Speaker 2>relationship with them and you talk to them, but if

1:18:59.280 --> 1:18:59.880
<v Speaker 2>they're listening.

1:19:01.680 --> 1:19:06.120
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. They pretty much know where I stand.

1:19:06.200 --> 1:19:12.479
<v Speaker 1>But I'm so so sorry. I'm sorry that she trusted me.

1:19:14.000 --> 1:19:21.439
<v Speaker 1>I'm just I'm sorry. I haven't met any of them,

1:19:21.479 --> 1:19:24.040
<v Speaker 1>and also now as a parent, like I just, I

1:19:24.080 --> 1:19:29.160
<v Speaker 1>have a completely different view of Anastasia. You know, she

1:19:29.360 --> 1:19:31.880
<v Speaker 1>just wanted the guy that she loved to love her back.

1:19:32.720 --> 1:19:36.120
<v Speaker 1>You know, that's all she wanted. That's all anybody wants. God,

1:19:36.280 --> 1:19:38.280
<v Speaker 1>I just I don't know. I just wish I could

1:19:38.280 --> 1:19:44.599
<v Speaker 1>turn back down. You know, I wish if I could

1:19:44.640 --> 1:19:52.000
<v Speaker 1>take her place, I definitely would, you know, I don't know.

1:19:53.640 --> 1:19:59.240
<v Speaker 1>There's just no. I don't know, but there's no. It

1:19:59.400 --> 1:20:02.360
<v Speaker 1>just doesn't feel like there's any type of I'm sorry.

1:20:02.400 --> 1:20:03.240
<v Speaker 1>That's big enough.

1:20:08.439 --> 1:20:11.679
<v Speaker 2>I'm thankful Kelly agreed to speak with me. Her side

1:20:11.720 --> 1:20:16.320
<v Speaker 2>of the story needed to be heard. So the plan

1:20:16.720 --> 1:20:18.720
<v Speaker 2>was that next week we were going to release our

1:20:18.720 --> 1:20:22.000
<v Speaker 2>final episode, which was to include my interview with Byron

1:20:22.120 --> 1:20:24.880
<v Speaker 2>and his legal team. But that was all done prior

1:20:24.920 --> 1:20:28.760
<v Speaker 2>to these new revelations about Kelly's littering case, something I

1:20:28.840 --> 1:20:32.880
<v Speaker 2>did not see coming. Because the story is unfolding in

1:20:32.960 --> 1:20:35.799
<v Speaker 2>real time and a lot of people's lives are at stake.

1:20:36.360 --> 1:20:39.439
<v Speaker 2>We are going to take another short pause. I'm going

1:20:39.479 --> 1:20:41.640
<v Speaker 2>to go back to Byron to ask him about some

1:20:41.680 --> 1:20:45.080
<v Speaker 2>of Kelly's allegations from our interview, and back to his

1:20:45.200 --> 1:20:49.040
<v Speaker 2>legal team to ask them to explain exactly what happened

1:20:49.080 --> 1:20:56.680
<v Speaker 2>with Kelly's littering charge and where do they go from here.

1:20:59.360 --> 1:21:02.919
<v Speaker 2>The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely

1:21:03.000 --> 1:21:08.000
<v Speaker 2>those of the individuals participating in the podcast. If you

1:21:08.520 --> 1:21:12.520
<v Speaker 2>or someone you know is experiencing suicidal thoughts or a crisis,

1:21:13.000 --> 1:21:17.720
<v Speaker 2>please no help is available. Call or text nine eight eight,

1:21:18.200 --> 1:21:22.000
<v Speaker 2>or chat online at the Suicide and Crisis Lifelines website

1:21:22.360 --> 1:21:26.719
<v Speaker 2>at nine eight eight lifeline dot org. To see photos,

1:21:26.760 --> 1:21:30.200
<v Speaker 2>maps and documents related to this season's story, follow The

1:21:30.200 --> 1:21:35.439
<v Speaker 2>Real Killer podcast on Instagram and at TRK podcast on TikTok.

1:21:39.360 --> 1:21:44.040
<v Speaker 2>The Real Killer is a production of AYR Media and iHeartMedia,

1:21:44.080 --> 1:21:48.880
<v Speaker 2>hosted by me Leah Rothman. Executive producers Leah Rothman and

1:21:48.960 --> 1:21:54.639
<v Speaker 2>Elisa Rosen for AYR Media. Written by Leah Rothman, editing

1:21:54.720 --> 1:21:59.120
<v Speaker 2>and sound design by Cameron Taggi, mixed and mastered by

1:21:59.160 --> 1:22:06.080
<v Speaker 2>Cameron Taggie, Audio engineer Justin Longerbeam studio engineer Graham Gibson,

1:22:06.920 --> 1:22:11.480
<v Speaker 2>legal counsel for A y R Media, Johnny Douglas, executive

1:22:11.479 --> 1:22:14.120
<v Speaker 2>producer for iHeartMedia, Maya Howard