WEBVTT - Tech, Jobs, Ukraine, and WWE (Podcast) 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:04.040 Tesla. Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast Paul Sweeney. Alongside 0:00:05.680 --> 0:00:09.160 every business day we bring you interviews from CEO, market 0:00:09.200 --> 0:00:13.520 crows and Bloomberg experts, along with essential market moving news 0:00:14.200 --> 0:00:17.239 on the Bloomberg Markets Podcast on Apple podcast or wherever 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:22.320 you listen to podcasting studios. Senior analyst to Wedboach Security 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:26.120 sporting his Rose Bowl hat hence state big win. We'll 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:27.840 get to that. I thought they played very well. Good 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:32.960 goodwin there. Man Deep Singh also joining us in studio here. Um, Dan, 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:35.559 I know you've been dealing with this issue for all 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:38.800 the year. Um what do you say to clients? Because 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:42.000 I know as an equity research analyst, your job over 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:44.640 the years has been kind of in part, educate your 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:47.879 clients on the EV market, on the opportunities, on the 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:50.600 investment opportunities, and the test of story had worked for 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:53.360 shareholders and your clients so well, and then a lot 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:55.800 of things have turned here into the last twelve months. Yeah, 0:00:55.840 --> 0:00:57.560 I mean it's been a perfect storm. I mean the 0:00:57.600 --> 0:01:01.120 first part was the most Twitter circuits were driven, but 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:03.600 this last part has been demand words and you look, 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:07.160 China's the hearts and loans of the Tesla story. Competition 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:12.200 clearly increasing within the country. Domestically, you're seeing price cuts 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:14.640 and some cracks in the armor. And I think right 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:17.120 now the big worry is you saw the price cut today, 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:20.040 what does that mean for demand? And especially what does 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:23.080 that mean for margins. Look, my view is that they've 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:26.800 actually have now the scale to expand margins, so they 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:30.440 have flexibility. They could cut prices even another four to 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:34.000 five percent and margins still, you know, I believe could 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:38.080 stay relatively range bound. But it's it's all about the 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:41.000 fear of the unknown. You obviously have a key earnings, 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:45.800 the key guidance coming around the corner January, and Musk 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:48.760 is the one that started the five alarm fire. He 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:52.559 is the only one that could extinguish it. Man deep uh, 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:55.000 you know that what caught me off guard was the 0:01:55.200 --> 0:01:59.360 huge delta between what apparently Chinese consumers pay for a 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:01.720 Tesla and what I would pay if I bought one. 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:04.920 Here are are these apples to apples? Because that would 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:07.880 make me very, very very angry if I were a 0:02:07.960 --> 0:02:11.640 US consumer knowing that my Chinese counterparts are paying less 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:14.560 for the same product. Well, so one is a cost 0:02:14.600 --> 0:02:18.400 of manufacturing will differ and because we are talking about 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:21.320 geo political landscape where you know, people want to move 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:24.200 their supply chains here. You will have a cost differential 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:27.080 more and more so this trend is not going away. 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:31.040 If you're moving things on shore, you will have higher 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:37.560 costs and then that's so cheaper price tag. That's for 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:40.399 a made in China test versus a maiden. It's all 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:42.680 about localized manufactur for got it. So, I mean Dave 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:44.799 Dan was talking about, you know, some of the challenges 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:48.880 they're just a test of fundamentally, but he also mentioned 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:50.919 that one of the big challenges for the stock has 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:54.960 just been Elon and Twitter. What are you hearing from? 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:57.760 I don't know the digital advertising community as it relates to, 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:01.320 you know, really the future of Twitter. Has he paid 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:05.880 forty four billion dollars for something that may be worth less? 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:09.480 I mean, look at Fidelity, they marked down Twitter's steak 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:13.000 by almost fifty So according to them, Twitter should be 0:03:13.040 --> 0:03:16.880 valued at billion. Then forty four billion you'ren't paid for. 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:20.480 So clearly, when you when you're private investors and they're 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:23.280 like four or five of them, they're marking down the investment, 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:26.360 it tells you something. And look, the ad market isn't 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:30.000 gonna get better anytime soon. And Twitter's positioning, I mean, 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:32.960 it was all brand advertising and that's the one that 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:36.480 got hit the most in this downturn. So clearly I 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:39.640 don't see a way back, you know, anytime soon. This 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:41.560 year is going to be awful for most of the 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:44.960 digital ad companies, more so for the ones exposed to 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:48.640 brand advertising, which is Twitter. So Dan, if if brands 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:51.720 want to get away from the Elon Musk brand, because 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:55.320 that's what it is, right, Um, do consumers want to 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:58.320 get away from the Elon Musk brand because I can't 0:03:58.320 --> 0:04:03.440 imagine uh, you know, left leaning, progressive, middle class UM 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:06.520 couple wanting to buy a Tesla these days. Well, I 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:09.320 think brand deteration has been issue. We've talked about two 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:11.840 black eye from Musk, it's a black eye for Tesla. 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:15.440 I do think that this can be course corrected. Look, 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:17.720 if you look at the broader e V market, it's 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:21.599 still Tesla's world. Everyone else paying rent relative to market share. 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:25.559 Now competitions increasing. You look into three one three area code, 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:28.240 GM four and others, and I believe GM can be 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:31.120 very successful on evs. It's a fork in the road. 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:33.560 It's a moment of truth from musk and it all 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:38.440 starts gen you guys set realistic expectations to hit not 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:41.719 lofty ones. Guy named the CEO to Twitter to start 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:44.359 to get some sort of hands off here, and then 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:48.120 I believe the stock starts to correct itself. But right 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:52.560 now it's it's obviously earnings date for Tesla. Why by 0:04:52.560 --> 0:04:55.000 the way, stepping back and looking at this over the 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:59.600 last ten, twelve, thirteen years, why has it taken and 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:05.600 come and automakers so long to get into this business 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:08.520 that was clearly going to grow like gangbusters. I mean, 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:11.919 now you see GM and Ford getting into it, Folkswagen 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:15.760 obviously going full tilt, but over a decade later and 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:18.400 they're still you know, we had a great story about Toyota. 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:21.000 They pioneered the space in a sense with the with 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:24.880 the what's that little thing called? And and they still 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:28.160 gave up on this market. You know, Nissan had the 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:32.080 Leaf forever ago and they still haven't invested in what 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:33.960 they need to in this market. How come is it? 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:36.599 Is it a conspiracy with the oil producers or what's 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:40.320 the deal? It's historic as in, like they'll study this 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:43.760 from decades and decades. It's a historic miss for the 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:49.400 traditional automakers, and ultimately Musk, you know, from an innovation perspective, 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:52.599 was really the one that drove Tessa to basically think 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:56.080 the box and create something that other automakers almost laughed 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:59.320 at the time. Now, obviously they're following where Tesla is 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:01.480 and then it comes down to like us two and 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:04.359 a half percent autos were reviews. So we're still in 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:07.480 the early days. But ultimately Musk has done what new 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:11.200 competitor can do. He's created this sort of feel like 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:13.360 there's got to be some conspiracy. I feel like there 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:15.039 has to be CEOs were I'm dead with Big Oil 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:17.039 because at the I p O, at the test I 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:19.640 p O, we all said, oh no, when the competition 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:22.440 comes in, they're screwed. And it's been over a decade. Okay, 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:24.240 we'll give him over a decade head start. No one 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:26.640 says that. In the business answer per Kevin Tyne and 0:06:26.720 --> 0:06:30.320 the auto analysts for Bloomberg Intelligence, he says that GM 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:32.520 four they're not in the car business. They're in the 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:36.840 profitable car business. When they can make a profit on 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:39.440 a car I either demanded at a certain level and 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:41.640 the costs at a certain level, that's when they're going 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:44.400 to get into the market. Elon Musk was a visionary 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:48.120 for the technology, but he can't make a lot of cars, 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:50.680 and so now you've got FOURD and GM's and Volkswagen 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:53.720 your car company. They're like, okay, now I can make 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:56.800 it profitable, and I can, and we're gonna be all 0:06:56.880 --> 0:07:00.120 in the battery technology got to that point where that 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:02.800 goes to my question to Dan, like, from a Tesla perspective, 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:06.760 you got Volkswagen coming in at Jim, where is Tesla's 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:09.960 I guess niche in the market? Where's the position in 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:12.560 the market. Yes, they were the first, but now if 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:15.200 I've got a Porsche, I've got a Mercedes, if I've 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:18.280 got a four I don't know. Well that's well, that's 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:21.200 right now the quagmire because you start to go back 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:23.360 to you got to get a sub thirty k vehicle 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:26.960 in terms out there to compete. Right from a massive perspective, 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:30.880 they obviously reviewed as the brand leader, the premium one, 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:33.840 but now competition come from all angles. And that's why 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:37.200 two thousand twenty three it is a huge inflection point 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:39.960 year for them. How they navigate it. And you're saying, 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:41.960 it's like Man's talking about as you see a reflecting 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:45.640 the stock. This is really for the first time after 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:49.320 Cinderella Ride, they got their back against the wall. Can 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:52.080 I add just one more thing? So Tesla was valued 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:55.720 as a tech company last year. Now it's being valued 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:59.200 as an auto company. Suddenly the tech premiums being valued 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:01.160 as three or four were auto companies, right, because it 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:05.360 still has a bigger market GM plus Ford plus Toyota, 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:08.480 which is by the way, the biggest automaker in the world. 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:11.440 So it's still towers over the biggest automaker in the world. 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:14.040 And the reason it was valued as a tech companies 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:17.880 because they have their autonomous driving you know inside. I 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:20.360 mean basically, they were capturing a lot of data, they 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:23.320 were making a lot of progress. Suddenly no one seems 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:26.040 to care about it, and obviously the focus seems to 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:28.840 have shifted to Twitter when it comes to Musk and 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:31.360 it's no more you know, a tech company, even though 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:33.840 I would argue and I agree with Damn that you know, 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:37.400 Tesla's miles ahead of GM and Wolkswagen and all the 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:40.599 competitors when it comes to the data and the autonomous 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:44.240 side of things because they have built this system. It's 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:47.640 a full stack similar to Apple it's an ecosystem, and 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:50.040 that's an advantage that's not going of anything. Dan, Do 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:52.880 you really think we're gonna see legit competition this year? Man? 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:55.120 I know there's a Porsche Ticon if I want to 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:57.760 spend two hundred grand I know there's a Ford Lightning 0:08:57.760 --> 0:08:59.560 if I want to wait two years on a on 0:08:59.640 --> 0:09:03.680 a way list. Um. But you know, it just seems 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:08.120 like either I'm getting a bolt right, or I'm on 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:12.440 a waiting list, or I'm spending like my kids college tuition. Yeah, 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:15.920 I think the real competitions in China right now. I 0:09:15.960 --> 0:09:18.719 mean that's where where Neo x ping b y, That's 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:21.520 where the real competition in the US look. I think 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:23.640 you obviously have a lot of automakers going to have 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:26.600 that GM. I do believe it's the real deal. I 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:29.439 believe that they have a number of vehicles from Cadoact 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:32.520 that you know some of the other driven in. It's 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:36.640 not they've done where where marian Tea have done. Is 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:41.240 is really game changing. But ultimately it's Tesla's market to lose. 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:44.320 And that's why right now Musk he needs to be 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:47.160 the pilot on the plane. Can't have a ted Striker 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:51.959 movement that's for the kids. That's an airplane recerplane reference. 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:54.559 Go google it. So, Dann, do we have any sense 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:57.120 that he's gotten that message that it's going to happen. 0:09:57.600 --> 0:09:59.240 I haven't really heard a lot a lot from him. Reason. 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:01.160 I think that's in ten. I think for the first 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:04.880 time he's I think behind the scenes, he's trying to 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:08.840 strategize reading the room, and I think he recognizes Look 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:11.640 has been deep talks about Twitter. It's not just the 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:15.320 forty four billion dollar mistake. I'd argue it's a seven 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:19.040 billion dollar mistake because of the mark Ap ultimately taking 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:22.080 off of Tesla. That's really taken. So that's why this is. 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:25.920 This is just the pivotal earnings, probably the most important 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:29.720 earnings for Musk maybe. Ever, Man, do you do you 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:33.360 expect serious competition for Tesla in the West? I mean 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:35.800 I saw a story that Mercedes is going to lead 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:38.360 the charge with a new UM you know, like a 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:42.400 supercharger network. But Tesla has had it for a decade, 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:44.040 and I think a lot of consumers that's one of 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:46.079 their main concerns. There's just you don't want to get 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:49.080 stuck UM and it's so hard to find a charging 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:53.320 station I mean, anytime you're selling a sixty thousand dollar vehicle, 0:10:53.800 --> 0:10:55.839 you have to think what is the potential in the 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:59.840 average EV starts at sixty dollars and so what is 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:02.520 the potential installed bates? How many cars can you sell 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:04.600 at that price point? And I think that's where the 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:07.840 market will get saturated unless you bring down the price. 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:14.839 So that's where I see competition, good stuff. Tesla January, Okay, 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:16.800 that's the line. That's the date. Will focus on Mandy 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:20.360 seeing senior technology analyst for Bloomberg Intelligence, and Dan I've 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:22.920 senior equity Annalyso what Bush Securities? Both joining us here 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:26.080 in our Bloomberg interactor Brooker Studio breaking down the story 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:30.160 that is Tesla. That is Elon musk Uh stock down 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:33.680 seven zero over the prior twelve months, so a tough 0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:36.839 another three percent today, another three percent, a tough ride 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:43.559 for the shareholders of Tesla. Matt, you know it's c 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:46.080 e S this week Consumer Electronic Show, but let's be honest, 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:49.320 it's really the auto show with some gadgets around it. Uh. 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:52.120 Lots of announcements coming out of Vegas here and CS 0:11:52.520 --> 0:11:56.600 including Mercedes Benz partnering partnering with Charge point in North 0:11:56.640 --> 0:11:59.079 America for charging network. And this goes to one of 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:01.120 the issues I have as I trying to get smart 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:03.480 on this whole e V businesses. Do we need it 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:06.320 like as many charging stations as we have gas stations today? 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:08.000 I don't know how that plays out, but unfortunately we 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:10.480 got someone who's really in charge of the stuff right 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:12.840 on the point of a Pasquality romano. He's a CEO 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:15.480 and president of charge Point, in charge point of Courses 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:19.120 and your stock Exchange listed company c HPT as a 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:22.160 taker you can load into your Bloomberg terminal. Pasquality. Thanks 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:23.760 so much for joining us here. Tell us about you 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:31.080 deal with Mercedes Benz. Well, it's a it's a I 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:37.720 think government for drivers everywhere in the United States and Canada. Um, 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:42.200 what we're doing with them is effectively curating a network 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:46.600 aligned with the thirty minute retail economy. Um. We really 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:50.640 believe the drivers need uh, not only charging when they 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:53.280 were on a road trip, but they need something to do. 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:57.520 They needed safety, they need um um, they need you know, 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:00.560 the the usual locoutrements that you would act when you're 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:02.839 on a road trip. And uh, you know, we're very 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:07.840 excited that premium brand like Mercedes poses um really dove 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:10.440 into this and willing to partner with us to really 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:12.959 curate a great experience for the drivers. So I see 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:17.120 um a graphic rendering of a Mercedes Benz charging hub 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:21.800 in Bloomberg Story which looks um, you know, elegant, But 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:26.880 I can't see the retail um, you know, extravaganza that 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:30.040 I'm hoping for as a as a died in the 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:33.400 wool consumer. What should I be looking for at a 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:40.040 at a charge point experience? Well, I think, uh well, 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:45.000 what stuff can I get? Look for is what they want? Well, 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:47.360 it's what they it's it's what drivers really want to do. 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:49.520 So we're going to align this with brands that exist. 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:55.760 Uh so, So imagine locating the types of chargers that 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:59.720 you see on the graphic, aligning those with good brands 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:02.199 that people want to use when they are on a 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:04.840 road trip. So this is not about Mercedes Benz developing 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:07.200 their own food service brands, of their own retail brands. 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:11.680 It is them sponsoring the placement of stations like that 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:19.240 at locations that drivers already enjoy frequenting. So like the shop, 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:23.960 right are we talking about here? Kind Yeah? Well, well 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:27.680 I think I think there's some place for communions stores. 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:32.760 But I think uh, you know, uh everything from food, 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:37.680 you know, food services to coffee to potentially retail. It's 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:40.120 aligned with something that you can do over about thirty minutes, 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:43.840 thirty minutes. It's it's it's again, anything that that twenty 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:47.800 thirty minute retail economy um uh you know can can 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:50.440 afford you on a and something that's aligned with what 0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:52.000 you want to do on a road trip is where 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:53.800 we where we're going to place these things. It's gotta 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:56.160 be like an Apple store. That's must be the number 0:14:56.200 --> 0:15:00.920 one umer destination, right for a thirty minute stop? Yeah, 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:02.560 you know, I don't. I you know, I think I 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:04.560 think we already have too many gadgets, But that would 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:07.680 be a good one. Pasquald helped me understand because I've 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:10.040 driven exactly one e V in my life and it 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:13.320 was a good one for def um, it was awesome. 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:17.240 But how should I think about the rollout of a 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:21.320 network of charging system stations around this country? Just help 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:24.200 me put into perspectives. You know, I think about gas 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:26.160 stations one on every corner, that kind of thing. How 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:30.640 do I How should I think about the charging system infrastructure? Yeah? 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:32.320 So charging is a lot. Driving any of the is 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:34.000 a lot different than driving a gas car, and if 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:37.560 you pattern match on gas stations, I think you get 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:42.080 head fake to bit um. The the the charging experience 0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:45.520 for for most of your fuel, most of your electricity 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:47.800 that's going to take you around where you need to go, 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:51.120 is going to come in at home, at work, around town. 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:52.880 You're gonna top it up, kind of like your piece 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:55.160 of consumer electronics. It's fitting that it was announced to 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:58.720 see yes because cars are behaving from refueling perspective more 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:02.440 like your cell phone than they are the gasoline cars 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:06.760 of old. Now for gas stations, the ones that are 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:11.360 placed around uh, you know that everyday use for your 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:13.760 everyday fuel, those really don't have that much reason to 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:16.080 exist in the long term. In the e V world. 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:19.560 It's the ones that are road trip position you know, 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:24.000 in positions between metro areas that you're typically going to 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:25.600 drive on a road trip when you're going beyond your 0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:28.360 battery range. Those are the ones that are likely to 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:32.400 develop into EV charging sites. With the proviso that there's 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:35.680 enough parking, there has to be enough parking. It takes 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:39.760 four to six times the number of parking spaces because 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:41.840 you're there longer than you would be at a gas station, 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:44.280 so you need the real estate. So it's really a 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:47.400 combination of the gas station locations that are the fueling 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:52.280 locations that are road trip position, and enough parking. Alright, 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:56.240 So bottom line, you want to build or Mercedes wants 0:16:56.240 --> 0:17:00.520 to build ten ultra fast chargers, how many is that 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:04.760 um equate to in the US? And when are you 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:07.920 When are we going to see like enough that Paul 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:11.679 feels comfortable, you know, buying an e q V or 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:15.040 whatever they're called. Well, I mean you can, first of all, 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:18.080 you can, Uh, we've already got a partnership with Mercedes 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:21.600 Benz where we're powering the in dash navigation and the 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:26.520 Mercedes ME charging experience. So you already have access globally 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:30.280 through Mercedes Benz to about a million charging stations around 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:34.639 the world. Um and and and so there's there's a 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:38.560 lot of charging that's already out there. This overlay network 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:44.440 is essentially a highly curated Mercedes Benz kind of certified experience, 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:48.240 and uh, you know there's there's there's going to be 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:53.159 at least twenty four hundred stations. That means ports parking 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:59.359 spaces at at least four hundred plus sites across the 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:04.119 United States to enable this right for long haul driving, 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:06.720 and that's at least. We're going to try to leverage 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:11.960 other funding from some of the federal and state programs 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:15.080 that you see that have already launched, and we're trying 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:18.359 to get businesses, frankly to also subsidize this as well 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:23.200 and and potentially contribute some funding to stretch the sites 0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:26.040 even further so we can potentially even go beyond four 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:29.720 hundred sites. Pass quality give us a sense of where 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:34.560 we are with the evolution of charging batteries. Are we 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:36.280 are where we're gonna be for a while or is 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:42.080 there a continuous evolution uh improvement here? Well, the chargers 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:47.440 themselves are capable of delivering more than today's batteries can take. 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:49.920 So if you've driven in an electric vehicle, which you'll 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:55.960 notice is that they start out charging um at a 0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:57.800 at a fairly high rate if the charger can provide 0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:01.480 the energy, and then the charge rate uh drops over 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:04.800 as the battery gets um more full, the charge rate 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:10.520 begins to drop, and you're gonna see that behavior um extent. 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:14.280 So you're gonna see batteries as as battery technology matures, 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:19.199 and as battery management matures, you're gonna see batteries be 0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:22.640 able to take that higher charge rate for longer periods 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:24.560 of time, and that will start to really shorten the 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:29.040 charge cycle. We think that you know technology uh you 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:32.359 know that's available today that will start showing up in 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:35.800 in vehicles will get you from a ten percent battery 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:39.520 level to an eight percent battery level in about eighteen minutes. Okay, 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:43.280 that's interesting, all right, pascually great stuff, great announcement with 0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:47.040 the Mercedes Benz there Pasquality Romano CEO and president of 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:50.119 charge Point HPT. Is a ticket to put into your 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:53.760 Bloomberg professional terminal. Uh. You know, it's just gonna be 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:55.760 a I guess not a slow build of building out 0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:58.440 this network of charging stations and uh, but it's something 0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:00.720 that I think, you know, it has to happened. Will happen. 0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:05.439 Is the latest on what's going on in work in 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:07.280 the Ukraine. I guess some of the latest news is 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:11.399 that Putin calls a surprise thirty six hour Ukraine ceasefire. 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:13.520 But no one buys that. Nobody buys that. And you know, 0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:15.520 but that's supposedly today and tomorrow, so we'll have to 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:17.639 see how that plays out. But let's get the latest 0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:19.360 on what's going on over there and how this may 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:22.560 play out. Mick mulroy, co founder of the Lobo Institute. 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:25.200 But that's just the beginning. Senior fellow at the Middle 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:29.960 East Institute, Marine Officer CIA all this kind of craziness, 0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:33.480 but he joins this year, Hey, Mick, what do you 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:37.280 make of this? Uh? This putin call for a ceasefire. Again, 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:41.920 as Matt was suggesting, not many people are buying it. Yeah, 0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:43.640 so great to be with you, guys. I am one 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:46.560 of those people that doesn't buy it. Essentially, I think 0:20:46.640 --> 0:20:49.560 what they were trying to do was to have a 0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:52.840 ceasefar of which the Ukrainians would I would agree to 0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:55.920 what they didn't, so that they could then resupply their 0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:58.040 troops in the front line, which they're having a very 0:20:58.040 --> 0:21:01.480 difficult time doing. So that was essentially, in my opinion, 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:04.159 why they were doing it. It was never agreed to, 0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:07.920 so it essentially wasn't a ceasefire, and Russia has been 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:11.760 engaging on the battlefield just like Ukrainians, so it is 0:21:11.840 --> 0:21:15.960 essentially a no go. Does anybody bias cease fires? I 0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:18.959 mean since the Ted offensive is it? Uh? Just something 0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:24.720 that no one really does anymore. So it's increasingly difficult, 0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:28.960 partly because nobody's rest our Russian I mean, they violate, 0:21:29.400 --> 0:21:32.480 They make an agreement and one day and violated the next. 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:35.520 It's not just in Ukraine, you see that another areas 0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:38.439 of the world. If you might remember all the issues 0:21:38.480 --> 0:21:40.680 when it came to get grain out of the port 0:21:40.720 --> 0:21:44.560 of Odessa, uh, and they just continuously made an agreement 0:21:44.600 --> 0:21:48.040 and then broke it. So it's that does not bode 0:21:48.040 --> 0:21:50.240 well for how this could end. If there's any kind 0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:53.760 of peace agreement, I think the Ukrainians will be very 0:21:53.800 --> 0:21:58.720 skeptical that any of their efforts would actually amount to anything. 0:21:58.840 --> 0:22:01.440 What are the likely scenarior areas for how this ends? Mick? 0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:05.800 What do you think the options are? So from the 0:22:05.920 --> 0:22:11.679 Ukrainian perspective, they have to essentially keep winning. And what 0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:14.879 I mean is the Russians only stand might uh. And 0:22:15.080 --> 0:22:18.959 let's just be specific to President Putin, he only understands might. 0:22:19.080 --> 0:22:22.760 So they have to hit the spring after hopefully getting 0:22:22.760 --> 0:22:24.560 a lot of the equipment that we'll get over there 0:22:24.600 --> 0:22:27.720