WEBVTT - Introvert or Extravert: Which are you? (Probably both) 0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:04.240 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of I 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:13.320 Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:16.079 and there's Chuck and Jerry's not here, but we suspect 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:18.680 she'll be along shortly, and that makes this, of course 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:23.040 stuff you should know. Yeah, it's funny. This one came 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:28.600 up from you. Why because semi recently we were hanging 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:32.880 out with our friends and Emily, We're talking about introverts 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:36.199 and extroverts and Emily said, someone said, yeah, you know, 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:40.440 Chuck is obviously an extrovert, and uh, Emily said, no, 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:44.080 he's not. It's a lie. She said, Chuck is an 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:49.239 introvert because he loses energy and groups of people and 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:52.880 he recharges by being alone. And I had never really 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:58.360 heard that, but that's true. But then after doing all 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:03.480 this research, like I am, uh, very much in the 0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:07.240 middle of the spectrum, very and not I guess, not 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:11.240 quite an ambivert, and that what it's called. It really 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:17.399 is completely dependent for me on any situation, who the 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:21.000 people are, where I am at the time. It's very, 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:24.680 very dependent on a host of factors. Yes, so that 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:28.679 means you are normal, uh, from from what I can tell. 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:31.400 And I'm really excited about this one because it's like 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:34.600 Christmas and Halloween and Easter all wrapped up together, because 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:39.040 we get the tea off on social psychology, on the 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:42.319 science press, um, all sorts of people and really kind 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:46.280 of disassemble something I think most people walking around think 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:50.320 they understand, but from everything I can tell, misunderstand is 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:53.040 a much better way to put it. Yeah. Absolutely, And 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:55.360 I think this will get a lot of listener feedback 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:58.240 because I think a lot of people spend time thinking 0:01:58.280 --> 0:02:02.960 about this stuff. Yeah. Um, And it's like, I don't know, 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:05.320 Like I said, it's very easy to put people in buckets. 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:08.280 I think if we were to talk about yourself and myself, 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:11.079 people would say, well, Chucks an extrovert. Josh is an introvert. 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:13.520 We can tell by things they've said over the years. 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:16.320 But it's just not that easy. No, No, but you're right, 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:18.560 and I should say you weren't right. Emily was right. 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:22.520 You recounted Emily being right. Usually the case if you 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:25.400 just kind of boil it down to that, that is, 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:28.880 it seems to be from what we can tell the UM. 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:32.640 The one distinction between introverts and extroverts, like where you 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:35.000 gather your energy from? Is it from other people or 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:38.480 is it from yourself not being around other people? Yeah, 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:41.040 but also it's like I think it's and we'll we'll 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:44.480 debunk a lot of this stuff, but um, it's not 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:46.839 as easy as you know, the fact that you don't 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:48.679 want to be talked to on the Appalachian Trail or 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:52.720 meet other hikers, that doesn't mean you're an introvert. Because 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:56.320 I've also seen you be the life of a party. 0:02:56.720 --> 0:03:02.120 Well that's when you get a little Captain Morgan. But 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:06.280 like I was thinking about just you know, work events 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:08.880 and parties and things like that. If it's like a 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:11.520 party with my friends, I'm usually all about it. But 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:13.160 I could also be in the mood to not even 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:18.440 go or at a podcast conference. You know, I am 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:20.560 way more likely to just sit in my room than 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:24.040 go to the mixer unless I know that, like there's 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:25.840 gonna be people at the mixer I would really want 0:03:25.880 --> 0:03:27.200 to get to know and meet, And then I'm all 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:29.280 of a sudden all about it. So it really just depends. 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:31.360 That's me. I feel like I'm learning a lot about 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:33.919 you right now because I just presumed you were always 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:36.839 at those mixers. No, man, I'm in the room a lot. 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:39.240 I mean you were always in the room, but many 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:41.320 times in the room. Well there's coffee in the room. 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:45.400 So just so let's let's kind of um, let's talk 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:48.000 a little bit about introverts and extroverts. There's a woman 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:50.320 named Susan Kane who wrote a book called Quiet, The 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:52.760 Power of Introverts in a World that Can't Stop Talking, 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:55.920 And she basically says it comes down to a preference 0:03:56.360 --> 0:03:59.000 of where you get your stimulation, like do you prefer 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:03.880 lower stimulation environments do you prefer high stimulation environments? And 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:06.120 that it is just a preference. And in a lot 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:07.720 of ways she's right, But in a lot of ways 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:10.400 she's really wrong because it's not just a preference from 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:15.480 what from if you're a psychologist or even a neuroscientist, like, 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:22.080 it's an actual, ingrained, possibly um brain based um biological 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:26.320 response that that people may or may not be born with. Yeah, 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:28.280 and we're gonna we're gonna throw a lot of studies 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:31.479 out in this one and a lot of statistics. There 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:35.919 was a random sample of results in a Myers Briggs 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:41.279 personality inventory that said the introverts and I love this 0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:43.320 stat They might as well have just called it fifty 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:47.320 fifty Uh, Introverts made up fifty point seven and extroverts 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:51.200 for forty nine point three, with about forty six percent 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:54.480 of men and fifty two percent of women being extroverted. 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:57.800 In fifty percent of men and forty seven percent of 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:01.920 women is introverted. But you can find a pretty wide 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:05.440 range if you go poking around the internet on how 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:08.440 many people they say are introverted or extroverted. Yeah, the 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:11.920 one I I've seen all over the places somewhere between 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:17.360 sixteen and fifty percent of people, right, introverts? Right, sure, Well, 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:20.039 I bet you they're right. Well yeah, yeah, somewhere in 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:23.200 there they might be nailing it, unless it pans out 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:28.000 the introverts don't actually exist. So those numbers you threw out, 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:29.720 and I think the sixteen to fifty that I threw 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:32.960 out too, that's typically in the us UM. But the 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:35.760 thing is, it's not entirely clear, Chuck, if those numbers 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:38.840 hold steady, like if you did that same random sample 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:42.200 of Myers Briggs results, you know ten years on which 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:45.520 you get similar numbers, and if you wouldn't, why is 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:49.240 that the case? Is it because somehow like populations are shifting, 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:52.240 or is it because you know, if you would sample 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:57.000 those exact same people from ten years later. Was if 0:05:57.080 --> 0:06:00.520 and they results were different? Would it be because people 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:04.160 act differently because of their moods? And then there's not 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:07.640 like a lifelong bucket of introvert or extrovert that you 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:12.279 can actually label people with, right, or if people uh 0:06:12.600 --> 0:06:16.160 really evolve? Uh, And I'd say evolve or devolved? I 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:19.680 guess in either direction. Um could do some people that 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:23.400 really used to be introverted. You know, you hear stories 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:25.200 where people say, well, then I learned to come out 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:27.279 of my shell for these reasons, and now I'm a 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:30.080 completely different person. And I think it's just one of 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:34.040 these things where it is all wholly dependent on an individual. 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:36.720 They're like, now I go beat up introverts on Friday 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:40.000 nights with my friends. But like, this stuff is fun 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:43.360 to talk about, but I just don't know that anyone 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:46.719 can bucket people. You can make some generalizations, but I 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:50.680 think it's so specific to each person that it's uh, 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:53.080 which is sort of some of your closing thoughts, which 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:55.200 we'll get to at the end. Yeah, but but we 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:57.000 have a problem here, then we can at least set 0:06:57.000 --> 0:07:00.600 it up right, because what psychology is trying to do 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:03.800 is create a model that you can apply to every 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:08.760 single human being alive and and predict their behavior based 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:11.760 on where they fall on the spectrum between extrovert and 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:14.080 introvert and some other stuff that we'll get into two. 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:17.560 So it's not just a question of you know, people, 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:20.840 people are people. Psychology is really trying to figure this 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:25.000 out in a really specific manner. Yeah, and I don't 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:27.640 think it's like a waste of time or anything. I'm 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:29.640 not saying like they should just let people be who 0:07:29.680 --> 0:07:32.440 they are. But because it is interesting, um, at the 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:34.400 very least, it gives us something to talk about for 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:38.000 forty five minutes. So let's talk about, um, what makes 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:41.520 an introvert an introvert and an extrovert an extrovert? Because 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:43.640 there's a lot of misconceptions, but there's a lot of 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:46.160 stuff that I think people assume that kind of fall 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:49.760 in line with psychology's view of the behavior patterns of 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:53.440 each right, but also a lot of overlapping patterns because 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:55.960 I found myself in a lot of these from each list, 0:07:56.480 --> 0:08:01.400 So you're an ambivert, right, did were mainly introvert when 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:05.040 it comes to this list specifically, I don't know. Let's 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:09.920 let's go through it, okay. Uh. Introverts uh, and we'll 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:14.360 just go through these quickly. Need to need quiet to concentrate? Um, 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:18.520 for sure? Me. Are reflective, are self aware, take time 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:22.960 making decisions and consider them carefully. Uh. Feel comfortable being alone, 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:26.640 don't like group work, prefer to write rather than talk, 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:29.760 have few friendships, but are very close with those friends. 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:32.880 Day dream or use their imaginations to work out a problem, 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:36.600 Retreat into their own mind to rest, and feel drained 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:39.880 being around others, especially large groups. So I definitely check 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:43.600 every single one of those boxes, except for take time 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:47.800 making decisions and consider things carefully like I I will often. 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:49.560 I mean I will consider things a lot. I do 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:52.120 that a lot of times. But I also just kind 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:55.360 of make impulsive decisions sometimes as well. Yeah, but you 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:59.440 also clearly don't need quiet to concentrate because you sent 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:03.079 me Muse to listen to for the very first time 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:06.280 in fifteen years. Did you listen to it? I did? 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:08.719 And it's funny that this all came up. We'll tell 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:10.439 everyone what you sent. So I can't remember his name. 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:13.600 I sent you a Ruichi Sakamoto album. I think it's 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:17.080 called Oh five, and it's really amazing it's great. I 0:09:17.120 --> 0:09:19.520 loved it. But as soon as I put it on 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:22.600 and Josh sent this to me just to say, hey, 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:25.880 maybe we'll just be like of one mind if we 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:29.200 both listened to the same music. And obviously you're kidding around. 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:31.520 But what I found was I and what I know 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:35.280 about myself is I can have music on if i'm 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:37.360 and when you you know, when we're doing stuff. You 0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:41.080 should know studying. It's my deepest study. But I gotta 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:45.400 have it really quiet, really yeah, otherwise it distracts me. 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:48.319 I mean, I understand the principle because I can't if 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:50.640 it has lyrics, I just can't. I can't do it 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:54.120 at all. It's lyrics, Yeah, it's definitely lyrics for me. 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:57.120 Or even an instrumental song of a song that has 0:09:57.200 --> 0:09:59.280 lyrics that I know it will bring to mind the 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:02.800 lyrics so has to be straight up instrumental all the way. 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:04.920 What if it was just lyrics that over and over 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:10.200 said concentrate, Josh, concentrate. That probably worked really well. I'll 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:12.040 have to try that sometime. Maybe I can just sit 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:13.800 on the phone with you and you can say that 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:16.280 over and over again while I'm studying. But for me, 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:20.319 that's only like really big, serious concentration. Like if I'm 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:26.360 working on a project, I love having podcasts or music playing. Definitely. Yeah, 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:28.800 that's another thing too. It's hard to listen to podcasts 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:31.920 or anything where people are talking too, for the exact 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:35.360 same reason for me for study. Yes, yeah, that's impossible. Yeah. 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:38.079 I mean you're talking about the Right Brothers and the 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:40.920 invention of the airplane while you're trying to study extroverts 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:44.080 and introverts. It doesn't really go very well. Alright, so 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:47.480 go ahead, go over the extroverts behavioral patterns. I'm a 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:50.200 little nervous talking in public, but that's because you're an 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:54.679 introvert extroverts And by the way, it's appropriate to write 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:58.400 it with an A or an oh, So extroverts or extroverts, 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:01.920 doesn't matter, it's find either way. But they enjoy social settings. 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:05.520 That's a big one. I've seen that their overall generally 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:09.360 more optimistic. They seek attention. I saw that that was 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:12.640 a big one too. They're energized by being around other people, 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:15.040 and as a result, they're friends with a lot of 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:19.480 different people. As a result, they're sociable and outgoing. They 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:21.880 tend to enjoy group work. That's the kind of work 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:25.439 that they thrive in. They prefer talking over writing, they 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:28.800 find it easy to express themselves, and they feel drained 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:32.319 when they're alone for extended periods. Yeah, I mean I 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:34.960 took most of those boxes, but I also took a 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:37.480 lot of the introvert. I feel like you don't take 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:40.680 many of these boxes at all. I'm looking and I 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:44.920 mean I'm pretty outgoing. I can be sociable. I mean, 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:47.320 it really just depends on my mood. But if you 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:49.800 were going to take an overall picture of me, yes, 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:55.160 definitely way closer to them the introvert version end of 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:58.280 the spectrum. What about this one, because I think this 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:00.760 one is kind of key and interesting. Is link drained 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:05.200 when alone for extended periods? I wouldn't say drained is 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:07.920 the right word, but I don't prefer to be alone 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:11.800 for extended periods unless I feel like being alone. But 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:15.600 in that case, does alone mean like just with your wife? Like? 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:18.679 What does alone really mean? Does alone mean literally by yourself? 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:21.400 So I think for extroverts they feel drained when they're 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:25.240 alone just by themselves. They don't have somebody else to 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:29.800 be an energy vampire on. Yeah, it's weird for me, man, 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:32.760 because I love being around people. But I could do 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:37.360 a zombie apocalypse survival thing on my own, sure, and 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:39.840 I think I'd be Okay. Yeah, you've got some good 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:44.360 good booze and some good food barbecue girl that works, 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:48.320 You'd be fine. It'd be awesome. Uh. It's also interesting 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:50.840 when you know, we haven't been in the office. Basically 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:53.800 our office environment is completely different now since the pandemic 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:57.439 moving forward, but we have an office still. Yeah, exactly. 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:01.760 But it's interesting that, like we I think before we 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:05.640 became a podcast network, it's interesting that we became a 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:10.119 podcast network because we were in office really full of introverts, 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:14.280 would you agree, Yes, yeah, for sure. And a lot 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:17.959 of those a lot of those people became public personalities 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:22.319 in the end, which is really strange despite themselves. Yeah, 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:26.439 it's odd. Um and and office is closing down for 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:30.480 I think extroverts has probably been a problem. I didn't 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:34.000 think I missed it until I went to our colleague, 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:37.000 Pam Peacock, had an art opening that I went to 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:40.760 in my neighborhood and I saw probably like twelve or 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:44.680 thirteen people from the office, and I had the best time, 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:46.640 And I was like, I didn't realize I miss seeing 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:50.520 everybody until I saw everybody. That was really sweet. Yeah, 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:52.000 but then I was fun. You know, I'm not seeing 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:54.720 him the next day. Yeah, it does sound like you 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:57.679 are a pretty big ambervert. So the fact that there 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:00.320 isn't as such a thing as an ambivert somebody who 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:03.880 really checks a lot of boxes on both sides, so 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:06.320 they pretty much fall in the middle. The fact that 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:11.160 they exist underscores a really important point that introverts and 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:14.080 extroverts are on a spectrum. You're not just one or 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:17.040 the other. As a matter of fact, Carl Young, who 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:20.240 actually came up with this whole idea in the twenties, 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:23.240 said that if you were a full extrovert or a 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:26.720 full introvert, you would be a lunatic. Like, there's just 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:29.800 no such thing. But some people lean further towards one 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:32.200 side or the other. But it's a spectrum, and again 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:35.200 it's not entirely clear if when you where you follow 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:37.600 on that spectrum would be the same from one year 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:40.200 to the other, one decade to the other, even you know, 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:44.520 one week to the other. Yeah. Absolutely, Um, I feel 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:47.000 like this is a good break time, all right. I'm 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:48.880 gonna go sit quietly and think about what I've done 0:14:49.840 --> 0:15:19.120 and get energy. We'll be right back, Joshua, that's funny 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:21.880 you threw in that Young comment because, uh, that quote, 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:24.200 because I found the same one and I thought it 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:27.800 was interesting because, as it turns out, Carl Young was 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:32.640 a one of the kind of first big proponents of 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:36.440 studying introverts and extroverts, and a lot of his work 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:38.800 he's kind of known for it. I guess that is 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:40.640 what I'm trying to say. Yeah, I'm not sure that 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:44.000 he actually came up with it, but he certainly popularized it, 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:48.920 starting in his book Psychological Types. Yeah. And Young's whole 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:54.680 thing was um that the division between introverts and extroverts 0:15:54.760 --> 0:15:58.480 is which which way they directed their focus or their energy, 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:01.960 was it inward or outward? And that that was the 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:04.440 real distinction, And that was what people thought for a 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:07.760 very long time until um, as we'll see, people came 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:09.960 along and said, I think it's really kind of energy based, 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:12.520 like where did they get their stimulation? Is it inward 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:15.880 or outward? Um? And that seems to be the current idea. 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:19.280 But Young really kicked the whole thing off in the twenties. Yeah, 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:23.080 which is I think it's interesting that I don't know, 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:26.880 the nineteen twenties to study something that seems very modern 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:31.800 to me, personality types. There's also a dude, a German 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:37.200 I think Young was Swiss, a German name Hans een 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:42.960 sinc I sink not een sync added an extra in somehow, 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:46.640 but it sounded luscious, it did. Hans I sink Uh. 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:51.360 He was a psychologist um from Germany who operated out 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:54.240 of the University of London. He kind of took the 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:57.560 baton from Young. Uh. Did they work together or was 0:16:57.560 --> 0:16:59.840 it just sort of a metaphorical passing of the baton? 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:02.000 Think it was like standing on the shoulders of giants 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:04.479 kind of thing. I don't think they worked together, Okay, 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:07.280 but he came along in like the nineties sixties and 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:10.480 developed a model of personality and he put a lot 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:14.320 of focus on extroversion and neuroticism, which I think is 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:18.960 very interesting because oh, I guess let's just talk about 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:22.280 the links between the two, Okay, So yeah, I think 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:25.560 this whole whole jam was that that was the two boxes. 0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:28.679 You were either an extrovert and or an introvert, and 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:31.760 you were either neurotic or not neurotic. And it wasn't 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:33.840 on a spectrum. He didn't see those on a spectrum 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:35.920 when he started working. I'm not sure if he ever did. 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:37.840 You were either one or the other. And when you 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:41.639 put these two things together, um, you had a full 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:44.879 picture of the human being. And it seems primitive to 0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:48.480 us today. But the basis of what he was doing, um, 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:51.520 it's it's still carried on today. He like kind of 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:56.080 helped build these blocks that people have built on since then. Yeah, 0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:59.640 and uh, he worked with his wife Sybil and with 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:04.520 her ended up adding psychoticism as a personality trait, uh, 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:06.920 to create what was called the Pen model, the pe 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:11.720 N model of personality. And I think, you know, psychology 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:14.320 or neuroscience would later kind of say that he was 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:18.360 right in a lot of ways. But later on psychology 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:22.000 they came up with their own Big five personality traits 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:27.840 and didn't they dropped psychoticism as a specific category, but 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:30.399 they kind of took pieces of it and applied it 0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:33.840 to the other five personality traits and came up with 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:38.840 a acronym really too, just depending on if you're an 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:42.560 introvert on an extrovert, right, it could be a canoe 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:45.680 or an ocean. Yeah, So that's kind of where we're 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:48.399 at today the big five personality traits. As as far 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:51.720 as I can tell, the dominant model of of personality 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:56.600 descriptors and canoe is um Conscientiousness, which is your degree 0:18:56.600 --> 0:19:00.360 of impulse control or your ability to meet goals. Agree Ability, 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:02.800 it's your degree that you trust other people or that 0:19:02.840 --> 0:19:06.520 you're helpful or cooperative. Neuroticism, and this is the same 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:09.000 that I think and uh, or I should say the 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:13.600 I thinks considered neuroticism. It's your degree of emotional stability 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:16.800 or instability, like do you get emotional really quick or 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:20.400 are you kind of like solid and steady kind of thing. Um. 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:23.800 And then there's also openness, which I saw described as 0:19:23.880 --> 0:19:28.479 better better um written as imagination or intellect. So it's um, 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:33.000 it's openness to new experiences, but internal experience, right. And 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:36.800 then there's an extra version. There's your can that's right, 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:39.359 that's the canoe, or that's the ocean. I guess ocean 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:42.400 would be in a different order. I can do that one. 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:46.840 And now in the oceanal that's okay, okay, uh. And 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:49.280 what's really interesting about all this is when you and 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:51.600 of course this is what you're gonna do in a 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:55.840 social psychology way is to to consider, like, all right, well, 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:58.520 why are people like they are? Not just let's identify 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:02.000 what people are are? But is and it's sort of 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:05.200 goes down to the old nature or nurture thing, which 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:07.879 I've long been on record that kind of everything is 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:10.800 a mixture of both, and it seems to be in 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:15.399 this case. Although there have been some studies, including studies 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:20.560 from the I Sinks, the Screaming I Sinks, Great New bands, 0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:28.159 where it seems in certain cases that nature has a 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:32.920 bit of a nudge over nurture. In one study in particular, 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:37.439 in nineteen fifty six of twins found that extra version 0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:42.880 was correlated most amongst identical twins rather than fraternal twins, 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:47.560 which would really put a check in the box of nature. Yeah, 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:50.160 And I think um went on in a nineteen seventy 0:20:50.280 --> 0:20:56.119 nine study to basically identify the size of your your cortex, 0:20:56.240 --> 0:21:00.919 your cerebral cortex as directly related did to whether you 0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:04.320 were an introvert extrovert. And this is ninety nine. I 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:08.800 think the Wonder Machine was maybe had just debuted and 0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:10.919 they were probably a billion dollars a piece. So this 0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:13.080 guy was doing this, I don't know, he might have 0:21:13.080 --> 0:21:16.480 been dissecting people after they died or something. But he 0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:19.440 from what neuroscience went on to kind of they went 0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:21.760 on and through in their own two cents on this 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:24.520 whole thing, and they really showed that I think was 0:21:24.760 --> 0:21:29.080 seemed to have been onto something. Yeah, so one thing 0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:31.399 that we do know for sure, and there's there's so 0:21:31.480 --> 0:21:34.520 much haziness with all this it can be a little frustrating. 0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:37.440 But one thing that they have really established is there 0:21:37.520 --> 0:21:43.040 is a supreme connection between being an extrovert and seeking 0:21:43.240 --> 0:21:47.840 reward behaviors that seek rewards, and there is a pretty 0:21:47.840 --> 0:21:51.800 clear demarcation between introverts and extroverts when it comes to 0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:55.120 the I guess we can say the fact that extroverts 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:59.200 are much more likely to seek rewards than introverts are. Yes, 0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:02.680 and and if you take that as correct, then that 0:22:02.760 --> 0:22:07.760 explains every other behavior in those behavior patterns that extroverts 0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:11.320 are looking outward for some sort of stimulation, and you 0:22:11.359 --> 0:22:14.399 can see everything they do is reward seeking behavior. Not 0:22:14.480 --> 0:22:17.280 reward like somebody gives them a TwixT or something for 0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:19.640 saying a joke. All of that might happen, and I'm 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:22.640 sure an extrovert would love that, but more like by 0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:25.680 talking to somebody they have a they get a positive 0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:27.840 feeling from that, so they get a pop of dopamine. 0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:30.760 That means that going and socializing with people is reward 0:22:30.840 --> 0:22:34.239 seeking behavior. They're seeking that pop of dopamine, which is 0:22:34.359 --> 0:22:37.840 as in brain terms, the reward. So that is the 0:22:38.200 --> 0:22:42.560 central why to all of this. It depends, as we'll see, 0:22:42.720 --> 0:22:45.520 it depends. So they have shown that there are people 0:22:45.600 --> 0:22:50.240 that correlate with extra version as we understand them psychologically today, 0:22:50.240 --> 0:22:53.680 that that do that do have like this larger cortex 0:22:53.840 --> 0:22:57.760 that is linked to greater reward seeking. But it's also 0:22:57.800 --> 0:23:00.680 possible that these these buckets that we've create an extrovert 0:23:00.720 --> 0:23:03.399 an introvert don't really apply. So at the end of 0:23:03.400 --> 0:23:06.159 the day, what we have is some neurological findings that 0:23:06.200 --> 0:23:10.359 were not quite sure. We can't say really confidently that 0:23:10.440 --> 0:23:13.240 they fit our model of extroverts and introverts, but it 0:23:13.359 --> 0:23:16.440 is it is a pretty good place to start, yeah, 0:23:16.480 --> 0:23:18.600