1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of I 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, 3 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: and there's Chuck and Jerry's not here, but we suspect 4 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: she'll be along shortly, and that makes this, of course 5 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: stuff you should know. Yeah, it's funny. This one came 6 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: up from you. Why because semi recently we were hanging 7 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,880 Speaker 1: out with our friends and Emily, We're talking about introverts 8 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 1: and extroverts and Emily said, someone said, yeah, you know, 9 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: Chuck is obviously an extrovert, and uh, Emily said, no, 10 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: he's not. It's a lie. She said, Chuck is an 11 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:49,239 Speaker 1: introvert because he loses energy and groups of people and 12 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:52,880 Speaker 1: he recharges by being alone. And I had never really 13 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: heard that, but that's true. But then after doing all 14 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: this research, like I am, uh, very much in the 15 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: middle of the spectrum, very and not I guess, not 16 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: quite an ambivert, and that what it's called. It really 17 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:17,399 Speaker 1: is completely dependent for me on any situation, who the 18 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: people are, where I am at the time. It's very, 19 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 1: very dependent on a host of factors. Yes, so that 20 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:28,679 Speaker 1: means you are normal, uh, from from what I can tell. 21 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 1: And I'm really excited about this one because it's like 22 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 1: Christmas and Halloween and Easter all wrapped up together, because 23 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:39,040 Speaker 1: we get the tea off on social psychology, on the 24 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 1: science press, um, all sorts of people and really kind 25 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 1: of disassemble something I think most people walking around think 26 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: they understand, but from everything I can tell, misunderstand is 27 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: a much better way to put it. Yeah. Absolutely, And 28 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: I think this will get a lot of listener feedback 29 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: because I think a lot of people spend time thinking 30 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: about this stuff. Yeah. Um, And it's like, I don't know, 31 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: Like I said, it's very easy to put people in buckets. 32 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: I think if we were to talk about yourself and myself, 33 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,079 Speaker 1: people would say, well, Chucks an extrovert. Josh is an introvert. 34 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 1: We can tell by things they've said over the years. 35 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: But it's just not that easy. No, No, but you're right, 36 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: and I should say you weren't right. Emily was right. 37 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 1: You recounted Emily being right. Usually the case if you 38 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: just kind of boil it down to that, that is, 39 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: it seems to be from what we can tell the UM. 40 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 1: The one distinction between introverts and extroverts, like where you 41 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: gather your energy from? Is it from other people or 42 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: is it from yourself not being around other people? Yeah, 43 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: but also it's like I think it's and we'll we'll 44 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: debunk a lot of this stuff, but um, it's not 45 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:46,839 Speaker 1: as easy as you know, the fact that you don't 46 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:48,679 Speaker 1: want to be talked to on the Appalachian Trail or 47 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: meet other hikers, that doesn't mean you're an introvert. Because 48 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: I've also seen you be the life of a party. 49 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: Well that's when you get a little Captain Morgan. But 50 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: like I was thinking about just you know, work events 51 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: and parties and things like that. If it's like a 52 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 1: party with my friends, I'm usually all about it. But 53 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: I could also be in the mood to not even 54 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: go or at a podcast conference. You know, I am 55 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: way more likely to just sit in my room than 56 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: go to the mixer unless I know that, like there's 57 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: gonna be people at the mixer I would really want 58 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: to get to know and meet, And then I'm all 59 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: of a sudden all about it. So it really just depends. 60 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 1: That's me. I feel like I'm learning a lot about 61 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:33,919 Speaker 1: you right now because I just presumed you were always 62 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:36,839 Speaker 1: at those mixers. No, man, I'm in the room a lot. 63 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: I mean you were always in the room, but many 64 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 1: times in the room. Well there's coffee in the room. 65 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: So just so let's let's kind of um, let's talk 66 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: a little bit about introverts and extroverts. There's a woman 67 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: named Susan Kane who wrote a book called Quiet, The 68 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: Power of Introverts in a World that Can't Stop Talking, 69 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: And she basically says it comes down to a preference 70 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: of where you get your stimulation, like do you prefer 71 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: lower stimulation environments do you prefer high stimulation environments? And 72 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: that it is just a preference. And in a lot 73 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: of ways she's right, But in a lot of ways 74 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: she's really wrong because it's not just a preference from 75 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: what from if you're a psychologist or even a neuroscientist, like, 76 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: it's an actual, ingrained, possibly um brain based um biological 77 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: response that that people may or may not be born with. Yeah, 78 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 1: and we're gonna we're gonna throw a lot of studies 79 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,479 Speaker 1: out in this one and a lot of statistics. There 80 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:35,919 Speaker 1: was a random sample of results in a Myers Briggs 81 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 1: personality inventory that said the introverts and I love this 82 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: stat They might as well have just called it fifty 83 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: fifty Uh, Introverts made up fifty point seven and extroverts 84 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: for forty nine point three, with about forty six percent 85 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 1: of men and fifty two percent of women being extroverted. 86 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: In fifty percent of men and forty seven percent of 87 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 1: women is introverted. But you can find a pretty wide 88 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: range if you go poking around the internet on how 89 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: many people they say are introverted or extroverted. Yeah, the 90 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: one I I've seen all over the places somewhere between 91 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 1: sixteen and fifty percent of people, right, introverts? Right, sure, Well, 92 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,039 Speaker 1: I bet you they're right. Well yeah, yeah, somewhere in 93 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: there they might be nailing it, unless it pans out 94 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: the introverts don't actually exist. So those numbers you threw out, 95 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 1: and I think the sixteen to fifty that I threw 96 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: out too, that's typically in the us UM. But the 97 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: thing is, it's not entirely clear, Chuck, if those numbers 98 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,840 Speaker 1: hold steady, like if you did that same random sample 99 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: of Myers Briggs results, you know ten years on which 100 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: you get similar numbers, and if you wouldn't, why is 101 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: that the case? Is it because somehow like populations are shifting, 102 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: or is it because you know, if you would sample 103 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: those exact same people from ten years later. Was if 104 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: and they results were different? Would it be because people 105 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 1: act differently because of their moods? And then there's not 106 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: like a lifelong bucket of introvert or extrovert that you 107 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 1: can actually label people with, right, or if people uh 108 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:16,160 Speaker 1: really evolve? Uh, And I'd say evolve or devolved? I 109 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: guess in either direction. Um could do some people that 110 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: really used to be introverted. You know, you hear stories 111 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: where people say, well, then I learned to come out 112 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 1: of my shell for these reasons, and now I'm a 113 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: completely different person. And I think it's just one of 114 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 1: these things where it is all wholly dependent on an individual. 115 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 1: They're like, now I go beat up introverts on Friday 116 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: nights with my friends. But like, this stuff is fun 117 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 1: to talk about, but I just don't know that anyone 118 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 1: can bucket people. You can make some generalizations, but I 119 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: think it's so specific to each person that it's uh, 120 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: which is sort of some of your closing thoughts, which 121 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: we'll get to at the end. Yeah, but but we 122 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: have a problem here, then we can at least set 123 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:00,600 Speaker 1: it up right, because what psychology is trying to do 124 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: is create a model that you can apply to every 125 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: single human being alive and and predict their behavior based 126 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: on where they fall on the spectrum between extrovert and 127 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: introvert and some other stuff that we'll get into two. 128 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 1: So it's not just a question of you know, people, 129 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: people are people. Psychology is really trying to figure this 130 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: out in a really specific manner. Yeah, and I don't 131 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: think it's like a waste of time or anything. I'm 132 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 1: not saying like they should just let people be who 133 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: they are. But because it is interesting, um, at the 134 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: very least, it gives us something to talk about for 135 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: forty five minutes. So let's talk about, um, what makes 136 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: an introvert an introvert and an extrovert an extrovert? Because 137 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: there's a lot of misconceptions, but there's a lot of 138 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: stuff that I think people assume that kind of fall 139 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: in line with psychology's view of the behavior patterns of 140 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 1: each right, but also a lot of overlapping patterns because 141 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: I found myself in a lot of these from each list, 142 00:07:56,480 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: So you're an ambivert, right, did were mainly introvert when 143 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: it comes to this list specifically, I don't know. Let's 144 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: let's go through it, okay. Uh. Introverts uh, and we'll 145 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: just go through these quickly. Need to need quiet to concentrate? Um, 146 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: for sure? Me. Are reflective, are self aware, take time 147 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: making decisions and consider them carefully. Uh. Feel comfortable being alone, 148 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: don't like group work, prefer to write rather than talk, 149 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: have few friendships, but are very close with those friends. 150 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: Day dream or use their imaginations to work out a problem, 151 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 1: Retreat into their own mind to rest, and feel drained 152 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: being around others, especially large groups. So I definitely check 153 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: every single one of those boxes, except for take time 154 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 1: making decisions and consider things carefully like I I will often. 155 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 1: I mean I will consider things a lot. I do 156 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: that a lot of times. But I also just kind 157 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: of make impulsive decisions sometimes as well. Yeah, but you 158 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 1: also clearly don't need quiet to concentrate because you sent 159 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:03,079 Speaker 1: me Muse to listen to for the very first time 160 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: in fifteen years. Did you listen to it? I did? 161 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:08,719 Speaker 1: And it's funny that this all came up. We'll tell 162 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:10,439 Speaker 1: everyone what you sent. So I can't remember his name. 163 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: I sent you a Ruichi Sakamoto album. I think it's 164 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 1: called Oh five, and it's really amazing it's great. I 165 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: loved it. But as soon as I put it on 166 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: and Josh sent this to me just to say, hey, 167 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: maybe we'll just be like of one mind if we 168 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: both listened to the same music. And obviously you're kidding around. 169 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: But what I found was I and what I know 170 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: about myself is I can have music on if i'm 171 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: and when you you know, when we're doing stuff. You 172 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 1: should know studying. It's my deepest study. But I gotta 173 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: have it really quiet, really yeah, otherwise it distracts me. 174 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 1: I mean, I understand the principle because I can't if 175 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: it has lyrics, I just can't. I can't do it 176 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: at all. It's lyrics, Yeah, it's definitely lyrics for me. 177 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: Or even an instrumental song of a song that has 178 00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: lyrics that I know it will bring to mind the 179 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: lyrics so has to be straight up instrumental all the way. 180 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 1: What if it was just lyrics that over and over 181 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 1: said concentrate, Josh, concentrate. That probably worked really well. I'll 182 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: have to try that sometime. Maybe I can just sit 183 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: on the phone with you and you can say that 184 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: over and over again while I'm studying. But for me, 185 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:20,319 Speaker 1: that's only like really big, serious concentration. Like if I'm 186 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: working on a project, I love having podcasts or music playing. Definitely. Yeah, 187 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: that's another thing too. It's hard to listen to podcasts 188 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: or anything where people are talking too, for the exact 189 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: same reason for me for study. Yes, yeah, that's impossible. Yeah. 190 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,079 Speaker 1: I mean you're talking about the Right Brothers and the 191 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: invention of the airplane while you're trying to study extroverts 192 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 1: and introverts. It doesn't really go very well. Alright, so 193 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 1: go ahead, go over the extroverts behavioral patterns. I'm a 194 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 1: little nervous talking in public, but that's because you're an 195 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:54,679 Speaker 1: introvert extroverts And by the way, it's appropriate to write 196 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: it with an A or an oh, So extroverts or extroverts, 197 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: doesn't matter, it's find either way. But they enjoy social settings. 198 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 1: That's a big one. I've seen that their overall generally 199 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: more optimistic. They seek attention. I saw that that was 200 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: a big one too. They're energized by being around other people, 201 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 1: and as a result, they're friends with a lot of 202 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 1: different people. As a result, they're sociable and outgoing. They 203 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: tend to enjoy group work. That's the kind of work 204 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,439 Speaker 1: that they thrive in. They prefer talking over writing, they 205 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: find it easy to express themselves, and they feel drained 206 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:32,319 Speaker 1: when they're alone for extended periods. Yeah, I mean I 207 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 1: took most of those boxes, but I also took a 208 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 1: lot of the introvert. I feel like you don't take 209 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 1: many of these boxes at all. I'm looking and I 210 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: mean I'm pretty outgoing. I can be sociable. I mean, 211 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 1: it really just depends on my mood. But if you 212 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 1: were going to take an overall picture of me, yes, 213 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: definitely way closer to them the introvert version end of 214 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: the spectrum. What about this one, because I think this 215 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: one is kind of key and interesting. Is link drained 216 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 1: when alone for extended periods? I wouldn't say drained is 217 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: the right word, but I don't prefer to be alone 218 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 1: for extended periods unless I feel like being alone. But 219 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: in that case, does alone mean like just with your wife? Like? 220 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 1: What does alone really mean? Does alone mean literally by yourself? 221 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: So I think for extroverts they feel drained when they're 222 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: alone just by themselves. They don't have somebody else to 223 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: be an energy vampire on. Yeah, it's weird for me, man, 224 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 1: because I love being around people. But I could do 225 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: a zombie apocalypse survival thing on my own, sure, and 226 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 1: I think I'd be Okay. Yeah, you've got some good 227 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: good booze and some good food barbecue girl that works, 228 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 1: You'd be fine. It'd be awesome. Uh. It's also interesting 229 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 1: when you know, we haven't been in the office. Basically 230 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: our office environment is completely different now since the pandemic 231 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:57,439 Speaker 1: moving forward, but we have an office still. Yeah, exactly. 232 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: But it's interesting that, like we I think before we 233 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: became a podcast network, it's interesting that we became a 234 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:10,119 Speaker 1: podcast network because we were in office really full of introverts, 235 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 1: would you agree, Yes, yeah, for sure. And a lot 236 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:17,959 Speaker 1: of those a lot of those people became public personalities 237 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:22,319 Speaker 1: in the end, which is really strange despite themselves. Yeah, 238 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:26,439 Speaker 1: it's odd. Um and and office is closing down for 239 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: I think extroverts has probably been a problem. I didn't 240 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: think I missed it until I went to our colleague, 241 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: Pam Peacock, had an art opening that I went to 242 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: in my neighborhood and I saw probably like twelve or 243 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 1: thirteen people from the office, and I had the best time, 244 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: And I was like, I didn't realize I miss seeing 245 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: everybody until I saw everybody. That was really sweet. Yeah, 246 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: but then I was fun. You know, I'm not seeing 247 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:54,720 Speaker 1: him the next day. Yeah, it does sound like you 248 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 1: are a pretty big ambervert. So the fact that there 249 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 1: isn't as such a thing as an ambivert somebody who 250 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: really checks a lot of boxes on both sides, so 251 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 1: they pretty much fall in the middle. The fact that 252 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: they exist underscores a really important point that introverts and 253 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 1: extroverts are on a spectrum. You're not just one or 254 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: the other. As a matter of fact, Carl Young, who 255 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: actually came up with this whole idea in the twenties, 256 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: said that if you were a full extrovert or a 257 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: full introvert, you would be a lunatic. Like, there's just 258 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: no such thing. But some people lean further towards one 259 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: side or the other. But it's a spectrum, and again 260 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 1: it's not entirely clear if when you where you follow 261 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: on that spectrum would be the same from one year 262 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: to the other, one decade to the other, even you know, 263 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 1: one week to the other. Yeah. Absolutely, Um, I feel 264 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 1: like this is a good break time, all right. I'm 265 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 1: gonna go sit quietly and think about what I've done 266 00:14:49,840 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 1: and get energy. We'll be right back, Joshua, that's funny 267 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: you threw in that Young comment because, uh, that quote, 268 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 1: because I found the same one and I thought it 269 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 1: was interesting because, as it turns out, Carl Young was 270 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: a one of the kind of first big proponents of 271 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 1: studying introverts and extroverts, and a lot of his work 272 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: he's kind of known for it. I guess that is 273 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: what I'm trying to say. Yeah, I'm not sure that 274 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: he actually came up with it, but he certainly popularized it, 275 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 1: starting in his book Psychological Types. Yeah. And Young's whole 276 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 1: thing was um that the division between introverts and extroverts 277 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: is which which way they directed their focus or their energy, 278 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: was it inward or outward? And that that was the 279 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 1: real distinction, And that was what people thought for a 280 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 1: very long time until um, as we'll see, people came 281 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: along and said, I think it's really kind of energy based, 282 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: like where did they get their stimulation? Is it inward 283 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: or outward? Um? And that seems to be the current idea. 284 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: But Young really kicked the whole thing off in the twenties. Yeah, 285 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: which is I think it's interesting that I don't know, 286 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: the nineteen twenties to study something that seems very modern 287 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: to me, personality types. There's also a dude, a German 288 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: I think Young was Swiss, a German name Hans een 289 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: sinc I sink not een sync added an extra in somehow, 290 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: but it sounded luscious, it did. Hans I sink Uh. 291 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 1: He was a psychologist um from Germany who operated out 292 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 1: of the University of London. He kind of took the 293 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: baton from Young. Uh. Did they work together or was 294 00:16:57,560 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: it just sort of a metaphorical passing of the baton? 295 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: Think it was like standing on the shoulders of giants 296 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:04,479 Speaker 1: kind of thing. I don't think they worked together, Okay, 297 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: but he came along in like the nineties sixties and 298 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: developed a model of personality and he put a lot 299 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: of focus on extroversion and neuroticism, which I think is 300 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: very interesting because oh, I guess let's just talk about 301 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 1: the links between the two, Okay, So yeah, I think 302 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 1: this whole whole jam was that that was the two boxes. 303 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,679 Speaker 1: You were either an extrovert and or an introvert, and 304 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: you were either neurotic or not neurotic. And it wasn't 305 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 1: on a spectrum. He didn't see those on a spectrum 306 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 1: when he started working. I'm not sure if he ever did. 307 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: You were either one or the other. And when you 308 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 1: put these two things together, um, you had a full 309 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 1: picture of the human being. And it seems primitive to 310 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: us today. But the basis of what he was doing, um, 311 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: it's it's still carried on today. He like kind of 312 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: helped build these blocks that people have built on since then. Yeah, 313 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,640 Speaker 1: and uh, he worked with his wife Sybil and with 314 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: her ended up adding psychoticism as a personality trait, uh, 315 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 1: to create what was called the Pen model, the pe 316 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 1: N model of personality. And I think, you know, psychology 317 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: or neuroscience would later kind of say that he was 318 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:18,360 Speaker 1: right in a lot of ways. But later on psychology 319 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: they came up with their own Big five personality traits 320 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 1: and didn't they dropped psychoticism as a specific category, but 321 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,399 Speaker 1: they kind of took pieces of it and applied it 322 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: to the other five personality traits and came up with 323 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: a acronym really too, just depending on if you're an 324 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 1: introvert on an extrovert, right, it could be a canoe 325 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 1: or an ocean. Yeah, So that's kind of where we're 326 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 1: at today the big five personality traits. As as far 327 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 1: as I can tell, the dominant model of of personality 328 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 1: descriptors and canoe is um Conscientiousness, which is your degree 329 00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:00,360 Speaker 1: of impulse control or your ability to meet goals. Agree Ability, 330 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: it's your degree that you trust other people or that 331 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 1: you're helpful or cooperative. Neuroticism, and this is the same 332 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: that I think and uh, or I should say the 333 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: I thinks considered neuroticism. It's your degree of emotional stability 334 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: or instability, like do you get emotional really quick or 335 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,400 Speaker 1: are you kind of like solid and steady kind of thing. Um. 336 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: And then there's also openness, which I saw described as 337 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:28,479 Speaker 1: better better um written as imagination or intellect. So it's um, 338 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: it's openness to new experiences, but internal experience, right. And 339 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: then there's an extra version. There's your can that's right, 340 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 1: that's the canoe, or that's the ocean. I guess ocean 341 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,400 Speaker 1: would be in a different order. I can do that one. 342 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: And now in the oceanal that's okay, okay, uh. And 343 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 1: what's really interesting about all this is when you and 344 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: of course this is what you're gonna do in a 345 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: social psychology way is to to consider, like, all right, well, 346 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 1: why are people like they are? Not just let's identify 347 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 1: what people are are? But is and it's sort of 348 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,200 Speaker 1: goes down to the old nature or nurture thing, which 349 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:07,879 Speaker 1: I've long been on record that kind of everything is 350 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: a mixture of both, and it seems to be in 351 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 1: this case. Although there have been some studies, including studies 352 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: from the I Sinks, the Screaming I Sinks, Great New bands, 353 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 1: where it seems in certain cases that nature has a 354 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:32,920 Speaker 1: bit of a nudge over nurture. In one study in particular, 355 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:37,439 Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty six of twins found that extra version 356 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:42,880 Speaker 1: was correlated most amongst identical twins rather than fraternal twins, 357 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: which would really put a check in the box of nature. Yeah, 358 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,160 Speaker 1: And I think um went on in a nineteen seventy 359 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 1: nine study to basically identify the size of your your cortex, 360 00:20:56,240 --> 00:21:00,919 Speaker 1: your cerebral cortex as directly related did to whether you 361 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 1: were an introvert extrovert. And this is ninety nine. I 362 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: think the Wonder Machine was maybe had just debuted and 363 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:10,919 Speaker 1: they were probably a billion dollars a piece. So this 364 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: guy was doing this, I don't know, he might have 365 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: been dissecting people after they died or something. But he 366 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 1: from what neuroscience went on to kind of they went 367 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: on and through in their own two cents on this 368 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: whole thing, and they really showed that I think was 369 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: seemed to have been onto something. Yeah, so one thing 370 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,399 Speaker 1: that we do know for sure, and there's there's so 371 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: much haziness with all this it can be a little frustrating. 372 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 1: But one thing that they have really established is there 373 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 1: is a supreme connection between being an extrovert and seeking 374 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: reward behaviors that seek rewards, and there is a pretty 375 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 1: clear demarcation between introverts and extroverts when it comes to 376 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,120 Speaker 1: the I guess we can say the fact that extroverts 377 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 1: are much more likely to seek rewards than introverts are. Yes, 378 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 1: and and if you take that as correct, then that 379 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 1: explains every other behavior in those behavior patterns that extroverts 380 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: are looking outward for some sort of stimulation, and you 381 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:14,399 Speaker 1: can see everything they do is reward seeking behavior. Not 382 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 1: reward like somebody gives them a TwixT or something for 383 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:19,640 Speaker 1: saying a joke. All of that might happen, and I'm 384 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,640 Speaker 1: sure an extrovert would love that, but more like by 385 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 1: talking to somebody they have a they get a positive 386 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: feeling from that, so they get a pop of dopamine. 387 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: That means that going and socializing with people is reward 388 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,239 Speaker 1: seeking behavior. They're seeking that pop of dopamine, which is 389 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: as in brain terms, the reward. So that is the 390 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 1: central why to all of this. It depends, as we'll see, 391 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: it depends. So they have shown that there are people 392 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 1: that correlate with extra version as we understand them psychologically today, 393 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,680 Speaker 1: that that do that do have like this larger cortex 394 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: that is linked to greater reward seeking. But it's also 395 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 1: possible that these these buckets that we've create an extrovert 396 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,399 Speaker 1: an introvert don't really apply. So at the end of 397 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,159 Speaker 1: the day, what we have is some neurological findings that 398 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 1: were not quite sure. We can't say really confidently that 399 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 1: they fit our model of extroverts and introverts, but it 400 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 1: is it is a pretty good place to start, yeah, 401 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 1: because they the one example they gave kind of makes 402 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 1: sense in that when thinking along those lines, which is 403 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: an introvert um, there may be an introvert who really 404 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: loves going on thrill rides and roller coasters or bungee 405 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 1: jumping or big adventuests like that. But they say that 406 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 1: extroverts getting more like more of a rush out of 407 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,360 Speaker 1: something like that than an introvert might. Yeah, so anything 408 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 1: that could give you dopamine. It's not to say that 409 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: introverts don't experience that, it's just to say that extroverts 410 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,640 Speaker 1: experience it more. Right, So it doesn't matter what they're 411 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,920 Speaker 1: deriving pleasure from. They're getting a bigger kick or a 412 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,199 Speaker 1: bigger thrill or a bigger whatever out of it. And 413 00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 1: I've seen that this actually leads extroverts into later danger 414 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: than introverts, like they're because they need Yeah, so they're 415 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:06,880 Speaker 1: likelier to go do weird stuff that could get them 416 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 1: hospitalized for an injury. They're more prone to accident to 417 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,679 Speaker 1: being hospitalized for him they're being they're more prone to 418 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:16,399 Speaker 1: being arrested for crime or anti social behavior. Um. And 419 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,919 Speaker 1: when you understand it is there, it's a reward seeking behavior, 420 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 1: it makes a lot of sense. Yeah, And then you know, 421 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 1: on the nurture side, there's gonna be a lot of 422 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: research obviously into everything from what your family is generally like, uh, 423 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: and the cues that you pick up from them on 424 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,880 Speaker 1: how to live life to what really interests me, which 425 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 1: is going back to being a baby, because you know, 426 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,399 Speaker 1: you're you're sponging it up from the time you pop 427 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: out and your breathing oxygen. Uh. And I think like 428 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,440 Speaker 1: in terms of the pandemic, And they talked about this 429 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 1: COVID generation, not necessarily generation because you know, maybe a 430 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 1: couple of years, but I think there was a lot 431 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:05,679 Speaker 1: of focus on like grade school kids and teens and 432 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,680 Speaker 1: stuff like that and how it behaviorally affects will affect them. 433 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: But I think there's gonna be a lot of stuff 434 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:17,199 Speaker 1: many years from now about COVID babies that didn't go 435 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: outside for their first two years. Uh. And this two 436 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: thousand six study they found that, Um, there's a few 437 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: studies here that kind of I think play into that. 438 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: One one was from two thousand six where they found 439 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,879 Speaker 1: that mother child relationships can really have an effect on 440 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 1: extra version and that if you are a mother and 441 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 1: child who are really attached during very early stages of development, 442 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 1: that the kid will end up being more likely to 443 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,439 Speaker 1: be extroverted later in life. Yeah, if they have what 444 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:49,120 Speaker 1: psychologists call a secure attachment style to their mom, which 445 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 1: means that they know that at the end of the 446 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: day and they can run home to mom if something 447 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 1: goes wrong and Mom's going to be there for them, 448 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,920 Speaker 1: which gives them the confidence to go out and explore more. 449 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,239 Speaker 1: That makes sense, and it's one of those things that 450 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 1: it makes so much sense that you should have a 451 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 1: little alarm going off in your head because it's it's 452 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,479 Speaker 1: one of those things that like has like somebody had 453 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,119 Speaker 1: a study that that showed that. But it doesn't necessarily 454 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 1: mean Okay, if you have a secure attachment, you're definitely 455 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 1: going to be an extrovert. It's also not clear our 456 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,159 Speaker 1: kids who are born extroverts likelier to form a secure 457 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 1: attachment to your mom's you know. So we're back to 458 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: like a chicken and the egg kind of thing, and 459 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 1: we just don't have an answer to that. So it's 460 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,919 Speaker 1: really important to be careful when you're interpreting some of 461 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,199 Speaker 1: the data that psychologists and the science press like the 462 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 1: throw at you is basically settled. Yeah, and it also 463 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: doesn't mean, um, you know, sometimes one of the effects 464 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: of postpartum depression can be trouble forming an attachment for 465 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: a while. Uh, that doesn't necessarily mean that that baby 466 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,880 Speaker 1: is going to grow up to be an introvert because 467 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: mom had a harder time bonding with that child early 468 00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 1: on because of postpartum depression. UM and I I think 469 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,159 Speaker 1: we should do one on attachment styles. Like there's a 470 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: big bunch of UM stuff that's associated with it, and 471 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: it seems really it's really interesting. It does seem pretty 472 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:14,920 Speaker 1: predictive of behavior for sure. Yeah. Absolutely, Uh, I love 473 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,680 Speaker 1: all that stuff. Anything about like early childhood development is 474 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 1: just fascinating to me. I love it too, Chuck, let's 475 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:25,439 Speaker 1: love it together. Another study in Japan, and this is 476 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 1: what I was kind of talking about with UM, perhaps 477 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 1: COVID babies playing in was they found that children of 478 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:38,120 Speaker 1: overprotective or just let's just say protective parents have lower 479 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,639 Speaker 1: levels of extraversion. And that's what I was talking about 480 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: with Like, if there were parents that were just did 481 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 1: not let their baby leave the house for two years 482 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,200 Speaker 1: because of COVID, like what that would probably mean they're 483 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:55,680 Speaker 1: probably protective and you know, maybe overly protective as opposed 484 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 1: to uh what Thankfully we were able to do because 485 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: there was no code, but we had our daughter out 486 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 1: very early and thought it was very important to just 487 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 1: get her out in the world in places where there 488 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,159 Speaker 1: are lots of people, you know, even as a baby, 489 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,159 Speaker 1: I just think, I don't know, I think all that 490 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,920 Speaker 1: stuff really sort of matters. Well, yeah, they say socialization, 491 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 1: the more contact with other humans, it's the better off 492 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 1: the kid is. That's the presumption, right right. The thing 493 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: is this this uh, this Japanese study. What it seems 494 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 1: to have turned up is that, um, it's not lower 495 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:33,920 Speaker 1: levels of extraversion. It sounds like it's um, greater neuroticism. Interesting, 496 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like they're they're um, what 497 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 1: a lot of people think of as introversion, like social anxiety, um, 498 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 1: a desire to not be around people because they don't 499 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: feel comfortable. That's not introversion. That's a part of the 500 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 1: Big five though, And it's neuroticism, that's what that counts. 501 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: So like a neurotic neurotic parents are more likely to 502 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: have neurotic kids. Yeah, and it makes sense like that 503 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: you would pass that on that that could be a 504 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: learned behavior, you know, that you adopt for yourself, especially 505 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 1: after years of being raised that way certainly makes sense absolutely. 506 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: What about discipline? Uh, yeah, you spank you thank them 507 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 1: for being an introvert. That's the that's the phrase that 508 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 1: psychologists use. Those T shirts did not sell well. Got 509 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 1: a box of them at the pops I convention, right right, Yeah, 510 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: they're just sitting moth eaton in the attic. Uh No, 511 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: what it said was a sixty six nineteen sixty six 512 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: study found that sons who were punished by their parents 513 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 1: would exhibit more introverted behavior. Uh. This to me, especially 514 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: the fact that it was nineteen sixty six, is I 515 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 1: don't know. I'm just a leary of this one, because 516 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: what does punishment mean in that case in nineteen sixty six. Yeah, 517 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: you know what's weird is there's a lot of like 518 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 1: tendency to cite really old studies when it comes to 519 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 1: extra vision and int introversion, despite there being so much 520 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 1: work being done on it. So it popped up all 521 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: over the place. Yeah, it's a lot harder to punish 522 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 1: kids these days. I think, um, you know, and hit 523 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 1: him anymore. So you gotta do things like take things 524 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 1: away or have time out. And I don't I don't know. 525 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 1: I guess every kid is different. But when I when 526 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 1: I put my daughter in her room for any various reason, 527 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 1: like I go in there a minute later and she's 528 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: just happy as a clam and they're doing her thing 529 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 1: like this isn't a punishment, or if I take something away, 530 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 1: she's like, fine, I'll just go do this. Yeah. Like 531 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 1: that we haven't found a punishment that really works. That's 532 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:34,640 Speaker 1: pretty awesome. I wonder how how she's going to turn 533 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 1: out in that result, you know, like, because even if 534 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: you don't spank your kid, if you use guilt or shame, 535 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 1: that's gonna screw them up possibly spanking. So like being 536 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: a parent, no thank you. Yeah, And that's something I 537 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,960 Speaker 1: have to consider a lot because I have passive aggressive 538 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 1: tendencies and I had those foisted on me, and I 539 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 1: do not want to pass that trade along. You know. Yes, 540 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 1: for sure, we like to think we're raising a good 541 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:02,680 Speaker 1: future adult. Yeah, I think you guys. I really think 542 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: you guys are I think I hope so you seem 543 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 1: to be doing a really good job of it. So 544 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 1: I guess we'll see. Um, let's take a break and 545 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: then we'll come back and answer a really important question 546 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 1: I think is on everyone's mind. Who's happier learning stop 547 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:44,320 Speaker 1: with Joshua. Uh So we're back and we're talking about 548 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 1: a question, um that you just can't not think of 549 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: it when you start talking about introverts and extroverts, especially 550 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 1: when you learn that extroverts are just getting more of 551 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 1: a thrill and high from life, Like, who's happier? Does 552 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 1: that mean that they're happier? And the truck right, the 553 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 1: answer it's it's yes, they are happier. No, it's not. 554 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: It is too. I mean, study after study shows that 555 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 1: they have They report a greater subjective well being than 556 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: than people who scores introverts on these personality tests. I 557 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,560 Speaker 1: just don't want to believe this. I mean, I think, 558 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 1: to me, this is a little bit of a chicken 559 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 1: or the egg thing. Are they happier because they ah 560 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 1: go to more parties? You know, that's a very basic 561 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 1: way to look at it, uh, and go to more 562 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 1: concerts and public events and things that are more fun 563 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 1: like don't to me, that's a very narrow view of 564 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 1: what happiness is though. So, but that seems to be 565 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 1: like one of the big explanations for why they would 566 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 1: be happier is it presumes that social functions and being 567 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: around other people is rewarding in a positive experience, and 568 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 1: so since they're doing that more, there of course going 569 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: to be happier. I don't. I mean, if you're an introvert, 570 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 1: that's just absolutely not true. Being around people is not 571 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 1: necessarily a more rewarding experience, That's my point. Might be 572 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 1: happier at your book club, you know, right, or painting 573 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: your figurines all alone listening to us, for sure. But 574 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,959 Speaker 1: from what I've seen, study after study turns up that extroverts, 575 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 1: at least in our current understanding of what what subjective 576 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,960 Speaker 1: well being is a k A happiness that like, they 577 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: score higher in that. But again, it doesn't mean that 578 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 1: we've we've captured happiness kind of like what you were saying, Yeah, like, hey, 579 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 1: if you want to be happy, if you want to 580 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:43,720 Speaker 1: kick depression, go to more public events. Yeah. Well, what's weird, Chuck, 581 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 1: is there are there's some evidence that that's kind of 582 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 1: the case, UM, and it's found in UM like world leaders. 583 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 1: There are some world leaders who UM will out themselves 584 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: as as introverts. I think Justin Trudeau's the most recent one, 585 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:04,200 Speaker 1: but apparently Barack Obama some other like really like well liked, 586 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:08,120 Speaker 1: generally well liked leaders UM said later that they feel 587 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,239 Speaker 1: like they were introverts and everybody like you lie and 588 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:13,879 Speaker 1: you know, they really were introverts, but what they did 589 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:18,279 Speaker 1: was they pushed themselves to engage in extrovert behavior and 590 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 1: as a result, they were richly rewarded for that. I 591 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 1: wonder if Clinton was like, not me, baby, I'm name Bevert. 592 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:30,279 Speaker 1: I was all about it, right. I think Nixon was 593 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:34,280 Speaker 1: the last US president that was sort of an admitted introvert. 594 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:41,080 Speaker 1: Case closed. Yeah, it is a profession though, where uh 595 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,880 Speaker 1: boy talk about being around people, like campaigning for public 596 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 1: office is a slog of meeting strangers, um And the 597 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:56,919 Speaker 1: only experience we have with that is live shows, which 598 00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,719 Speaker 1: is really interesting because as an introvert, you do very 599 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,840 Speaker 1: well on stage and it's probably something that you push 600 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:06,319 Speaker 1: yourself to to eventually do. It didn't come naturally to 601 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 1: meet either, so I had to kind of work through 602 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,920 Speaker 1: jitters and stuff as well. But uh I found a 603 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:16,839 Speaker 1: distinct difference in my energy levels when we were sort 604 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,360 Speaker 1: of meeting and greeting before and after shows that we 605 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,799 Speaker 1: did for a long time, because as much as I 606 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:26,960 Speaker 1: really enjoyed every single interaction, it is a very draining 607 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,200 Speaker 1: thing to have to be on because when you meet 608 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,319 Speaker 1: someone who's meeting you, they're really up and on. So 609 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 1: like someone can't come up and say, oh man, I'm 610 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 1: such a big listener for years and years, and you 611 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:41,239 Speaker 1: can't just go, I'm really tired right now, so you 612 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,240 Speaker 1: gotta be up to and like what we did times 613 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,840 Speaker 1: a gazillion is a politician running for office, right exactly 614 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,360 Speaker 1: because you really want something from those people, which is 615 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 1: the yeah, you know, so you gotta be on. I 616 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: know exactly what you mean, but I can imagine that drain. 617 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 1: The fact is, though you and I do push ourselves 618 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,400 Speaker 1: to go out on stage, and we can both report 619 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:07,160 Speaker 1: that is really really rewarding to do that. There are 620 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,399 Speaker 1: a few things that make you feel as good as 621 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,840 Speaker 1: coming off off stage after like a show that you 622 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 1: just knew was a good show. Right, So there is, 623 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,480 Speaker 1: at least anecdotally from our perspective, there is evidence that 624 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 1: pushing yourself to do extroverted activities is rewarding could increase 625 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:29,440 Speaker 1: your happiness. But the reason why it doesn't necessarily mean okay, 626 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,440 Speaker 1: you have to be an extrovert to be happy is 627 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,359 Speaker 1: that it's possible our society is really ignoring a lot 628 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,879 Speaker 1: of this stuff that that would make anybody happy that's 629 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:43,040 Speaker 1: associated with introverted behavior. To because our society places a 630 00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 1: tremendous amount of value on extroverted traits basically, yeah, and 631 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 1: on the live show thing like, and I've heard this 632 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:57,359 Speaker 1: from touring musicians. It's there's definitely an energy exchange that 633 00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,680 Speaker 1: leaves you, like I have a hard time going to 634 00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,839 Speaker 1: sleep after in the hotel. But when we were going 635 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 1: out for like, you know, six or seven shows in 636 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 1: a row, I would find in the week after I 637 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:12,080 Speaker 1: got home it was a challenge for me. Oh yeah, 638 00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,840 Speaker 1: And I've heard that from touring musicians that you know, 639 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 1: you got on these big rock and roll tours or 640 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:21,799 Speaker 1: what rock and roll tours? So square uh and then afterwards, 641 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 1: like you go back home to your family and like 642 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,160 Speaker 1: that's why a lot of those marriages and families break up, 643 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:31,279 Speaker 1: because it's just really a stark difference. Can be kind 644 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,239 Speaker 1: of depressed. Even I think, why can't you be more 645 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 1: like the group? He's right, I'm sure that doesn't fare 646 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:42,680 Speaker 1: very well. They'll do anything. So um. So, the thing is, 647 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,319 Speaker 1: if you look at how at least I should say 648 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 1: Western society. I think I said society before, but Western 649 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,520 Speaker 1: society really places a lot of value on extroverted behaviors, 650 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:56,800 Speaker 1: being outgoing, being friendly, being sociable, being um a leader, 651 00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:01,440 Speaker 1: being unafraid, you know, Captain of Indo Street kind of stuff. Like, 652 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 1: look at our movie stars. We don't have introverted movie 653 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 1: stars typically. I don't agree with that. Actually, I think 654 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,480 Speaker 1: there's a lot of introverted movie stars. Okay, but do 655 00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:13,439 Speaker 1: they behave introverted on screen? Well, no, that's my point. 656 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,480 Speaker 1: I think that's all the act. And I think as 657 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,399 Speaker 1: real personality goes, I think there are many introverted movie stars, right, 658 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 1: So if they just acted like their own introverted selves, 659 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 1: society wouldn't place any sort of value on that. It 660 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 1: would be movie starting, right exactly. They place an emphasis 661 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,120 Speaker 1: on the extroverted behavior they're engaging in. You see what 662 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:35,680 Speaker 1: I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, So I think that's the point. Like, 663 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,440 Speaker 1: if you are in our society, if you act extroverted, 664 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 1: of course you're going to be happy. But I think 665 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:42,359 Speaker 1: we're also missing all of the things that can make 666 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:46,480 Speaker 1: an introverted person happy that apply as well. Yeah, and 667 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: you you can see this in the sort of early 668 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,360 Speaker 1: mid two thousand's when like every office in the world 669 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:59,440 Speaker 1: became this big, huge open warehouse space, which was again 670 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,279 Speaker 1: for us for an office of introverts was just a 671 00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:06,799 Speaker 1: nightmare for so many people. But I think career advancement 672 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,239 Speaker 1: in those situations. You know, the boss, he's like, you know, 673 00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:14,440 Speaker 1: so and so is always just bopping around generating ideas, 674 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,400 Speaker 1: talking to people like they're going to get more attention 675 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 1: than someone who was like where did my cubicle go? Yeah, 676 00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:25,320 Speaker 1: which isn't fair, you know, to have done to everyone, 677 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,840 Speaker 1: But that's I mean, that's that at Western emphasis on 678 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:33,400 Speaker 1: on extroverted behavior. Same with like brainstorming sessions. That's the 679 00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,800 Speaker 1: opposite of what introverts want to do, and it's also 680 00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:39,120 Speaker 1: the opposite of of what research shows that an introverted 681 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,400 Speaker 1: person um is going to thrive in. They're gonna not 682 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,320 Speaker 1: gonna come up with their best ideas in that setting. 683 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:45,920 Speaker 1: They're going to come up with their best ideas like 684 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,640 Speaker 1: alone on a walk or something. Yeah, you know what 685 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,160 Speaker 1: they should do. It's interesting. Like a really good boss 686 00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,239 Speaker 1: I think would gather the people for the meeting and say, 687 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,080 Speaker 1: all right, so coming up next, we need to solve 688 00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:58,880 Speaker 1: this problem. We're gonna have a big brainstorming session for 689 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,040 Speaker 1: anyone who wants to stay. But if you want to 690 00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:04,160 Speaker 1: go back to your office and really have some alone 691 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,280 Speaker 1: time to think about this, then do that, like offer 692 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,440 Speaker 1: up both alternatives. Yes, exactly. I think that's great. The 693 00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:15,200 Speaker 1: ambivert way up with the ambiverts. As far as the 694 00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:17,920 Speaker 1: idea of who is healthier, that's a big one too. 695 00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:22,919 Speaker 1: It's really easy to say that, like, well here, let's 696 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,200 Speaker 1: just say this. What's happened with all of the information 697 00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:29,719 Speaker 1: that we found is there's been a lot of misinterpretation 698 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:34,839 Speaker 1: of studies and data where the press will basically say, like, 699 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:38,200 Speaker 1: if you're an introvert, you're more prone to anxiety. And 700 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,160 Speaker 1: people that are more prone to anxiety or more prone 701 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,480 Speaker 1: to have heart attacks, So introverts are more prone to 702 00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,200 Speaker 1: have heart attacks, right precisely. And what they're doing is 703 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,400 Speaker 1: maybe they're talking about a study, but they're uh, they're 704 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:52,200 Speaker 1: more often than not trying to put a scientific gloss 705 00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:55,759 Speaker 1: on just a popular myth. Right, Yeah, and that's it. 706 00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,040 Speaker 1: That happens a lot. There was another study that looked 707 00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:00,640 Speaker 1: at people who have like really negat of outlooks on 708 00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:03,080 Speaker 1: life and have heart disease and compared them to people 709 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:06,120 Speaker 1: who are less negative and um have heart disease, and 710 00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,080 Speaker 1: looked at health outcomes and of course, the more negative 711 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:11,840 Speaker 1: people had worse health outcomes, and of course the headline 712 00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:15,960 Speaker 1: was introverts experience more health problems. Studies suggests kind of thing, 713 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:20,880 Speaker 1: and that introverts was nowhere in the study anywhere. They 714 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,440 Speaker 1: didn't use it anywhere, but that got converted to introverts. 715 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,279 Speaker 1: That is a huge problem at the very least it 716 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,640 Speaker 1: is in public opinion. But the bigger problem is, like 717 00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:31,920 Speaker 1: we as the public, can be forgiven, does this kind 718 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,080 Speaker 1: of just take that up. It's not our job. We're 719 00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:37,319 Speaker 1: just kind of interested in that kind of thing, and 720 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:41,160 Speaker 1: we can be forgiven for making those mistakes. What shouldn't 721 00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:45,040 Speaker 1: be forgiven is when psychologists and other people working in 722 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,960 Speaker 1: these fields do that same thing, make those mistakes, use 723 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,120 Speaker 1: that shorthand and take this as anything more than just 724 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,239 Speaker 1: a model that is a work in progress at best 725 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 1: right now right And also the notion that we've we've 726 00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,440 Speaker 1: got it all figured out when it comes to connecting 727 00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:06,600 Speaker 1: health with personality, um that that is like a lot 728 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,640 Speaker 1: of hubris to suggest that. So there's still so much 729 00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,759 Speaker 1: more I think that's going to be uncovered when connecting 730 00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:17,440 Speaker 1: things like heart disease and depression and and stuff like that. 731 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:19,840 Speaker 1: We just don't know. Yeah, we just don't know. And 732 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:21,600 Speaker 1: that's a good thing to remember when it comes to 733 00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:25,640 Speaker 1: introversion and extroversion. Um. And there's people out there that say, 734 00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:27,719 Speaker 1: you know, I think a lot of this is just 735 00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:31,640 Speaker 1: basically bunk, if not all of it together. That their 736 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:35,040 Speaker 1: their their premise is basically what we've been talking about, 737 00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:39,440 Speaker 1: that people are just too complex to put into a 738 00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:43,160 Speaker 1: set of categories. And yeah, the Big five Personality Traits 739 00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:48,400 Speaker 1: is probably the most complex and robust personality inventory that 740 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,240 Speaker 1: we've come up with yet. But it's still five different 741 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:54,200 Speaker 1: categories that you kind of that interact with one another. 742 00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,279 Speaker 1: And it seems really primitive when you step back and 743 00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,120 Speaker 1: look at that, when you consider just how complex not 744 00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:03,480 Speaker 1: just people are, but the experiences people have on a 745 00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:06,879 Speaker 1: moment to moment basis that influence our moods and our 746 00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:11,120 Speaker 1: decisions and our behavior too. Yeah, and there are people 747 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:16,359 Speaker 1: who can solidly be like oh no, I'm well young 748 00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:18,560 Speaker 1: said that's not possible, you know what I mean, that 749 00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:21,920 Speaker 1: would consider themselves like I'm an introvert, Like trust me, 750 00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:24,920 Speaker 1: I'm an introvert, or someone who is clearly an extrovert. 751 00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,800 Speaker 1: There are those people that have maybe very very little 752 00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:32,960 Speaker 1: overlap with the other. Um, but with anything on a spectrum, 753 00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,480 Speaker 1: it's just I don't know, it's very personal. I think 754 00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,640 Speaker 1: it's super interesting to think about for yourself because I 755 00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:42,319 Speaker 1: think it helps you navigate the world if you kind 756 00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:44,640 Speaker 1: of think about it. But I also think you can 757 00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:47,000 Speaker 1: overthink that stuff. Yeah, some people say that what you 758 00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:50,120 Speaker 1: just described is actually harmful, that people will start to 759 00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:55,400 Speaker 1: act to type if they are like, well, I'm an introvert. 760 00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:57,319 Speaker 1: I guess I might as well not go to that 761 00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,720 Speaker 1: party and they miss meeting you know, a new friend, 762 00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:02,040 Speaker 1: or that you don't take on that project at work 763 00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:03,840 Speaker 1: that would open a new door for him. Like, some 764 00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:06,600 Speaker 1: people say this kind of stuff is harmful labeling people 765 00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:09,919 Speaker 1: like that rather than giving everybody like, hey, some people 766 00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,479 Speaker 1: are like this, there's this behavior, there's that behavior, and 767 00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:16,160 Speaker 1: just letting people be as they are. UM that that 768 00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:20,040 Speaker 1: that's a much better idea. Yeah, I think I agree 769 00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:22,640 Speaker 1: with that. Yeah. And then lastly, the other thing, Chuck 770 00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:26,680 Speaker 1: is okay, So let's say the Big five personality inventory. 771 00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:29,840 Speaker 1: It becomes just more and more robust, and it becomes 772 00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,239 Speaker 1: clear that yes, this thing is absolutely accurate and you 773 00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:35,880 Speaker 1: can use it to predict the behavior of anybody, like, 774 00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,719 Speaker 1: would we want to even have that in existence? Do 775 00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,520 Speaker 1: we want to know people like that? And like if 776 00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:43,960 Speaker 1: we did have something that was that accurate, like what 777 00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,480 Speaker 1: ends would it be used to? You know, it's just 778 00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:52,080 Speaker 1: a question to chew on, especially if you're an introvert. Yeah, 779 00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:53,920 Speaker 1: these are my favorite ones. I like the ones where 780 00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,960 Speaker 1: we can just dish, you know. Yeah, I love dishing 781 00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:00,719 Speaker 1: with you. Uh, let's see you got anything else? I 782 00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,200 Speaker 1: got nothing else. I don't have anything else either. And 783 00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:04,960 Speaker 1: since both of us said that, of course, it means 784 00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:09,680 Speaker 1: it's time for listener mayo. I'm going to call this 785 00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:14,960 Speaker 1: pronunciation support, not in the way that you might think. Hey, guys, 786 00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:16,839 Speaker 1: love the show writing to urge you to be less 787 00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:20,960 Speaker 1: hard on yourselves and less accepting of criticism from listeners 788 00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:25,480 Speaker 1: about so called language mistakes. For example, in the recent 789 00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:29,400 Speaker 1: Roe v Waite episode, Chuck at first pronounced substantive with 790 00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,840 Speaker 1: the accident on the second syllable and instead of substantive, 791 00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:35,040 Speaker 1: and it made such an impression on him that he 792 00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:37,719 Speaker 1: made fun of himself later in the episode. I tend 793 00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:41,799 Speaker 1: to do that. Uh, Yetsi is from Yetzi by the way, Well, 794 00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:45,840 Speaker 1: as it happens, both Oxford and Miriam Webster document Chuck's 795 00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:49,239 Speaker 1: pronunciation of the word as such, and Josh check out 796 00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:53,880 Speaker 1: what some dictionaries have come to say about contemporary versus contemporaneous. 797 00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:57,120 Speaker 1: Oh boy, I'm excited about this one. The truth is 798 00:45:57,160 --> 00:45:59,960 Speaker 1: that even dictionaries are nothing more than snapshots in time 799 00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:03,160 Speaker 1: of how language is used, and in perfect ones at that, 800 00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:07,919 Speaker 1: I might recommend doing an episode on linguistic descriptivism. Uh. 801 00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:09,880 Speaker 1: In short, language is basically a game in which the 802 00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:12,880 Speaker 1: object is communicate. It's pretty rare for you guys his 803 00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,839 Speaker 1: native English speakers to use English in a way that could, 804 00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:20,040 Speaker 1: by any meaningful metric, be considered a mistake. Maybe a 805 00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:23,799 Speaker 1: linguistic descriptivism episode would be would put to bed some 806 00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,600 Speaker 1: of the more pedantic criticisms you seem to get from listeners. 807 00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:32,000 Speaker 1: It's a great idea. Nah, who am I kidding that? Yeah, 808 00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:36,960 Speaker 1: so with many fondness, I'm sure if that's correct. Uh. 809 00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,920 Speaker 1: But when they got the point across exactly uh, and 810 00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,920 Speaker 1: that's from yet Sie Lindenbaum, my new favorite listener. And 811 00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:45,960 Speaker 1: then when I told yet See that I was reading this, 812 00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:50,080 Speaker 1: they're back and said, yes, yes, I'm going to be 813 00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:53,879 Speaker 1: the coolest member of my descriptive Ist Linguistics Club this week. 814 00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:57,439 Speaker 1: I love that that's a club man, Yets. He's great. 815 00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:00,279 Speaker 1: I'm gonna take Yetsi's advice and really unlow on the 816 00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:02,279 Speaker 1: next person who writes in to tell us where you've 817 00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:06,440 Speaker 1: mispronounced something. Yeah, tell him, sick him, that's right, tell 818 00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:09,239 Speaker 1: him sent you. Um. Well, if you want to be 819 00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:12,040 Speaker 1: like Yets and just be totally great, you can take 820 00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:14,239 Speaker 1: a shot at it in an email. Send it off 821 00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:20,480 Speaker 1: to stuff podcast at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you 822 00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:23,000 Speaker 1: Should Know is a production of I Heart Radio. For 823 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:26,040 Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 824 00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:29,160 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.