WEBVTT - SYSK Selects: How Traffic Works 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.600 Hi, everybody. Chuck Bryant here of Stuff you Should Know 0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:07.320 and welcome to the weekend. It's Saturday, and you know 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.160 what that means. It's time for another Stuff you Should 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:12.360 Know select episode where Josh and I picked our favorites 0:00:12.960 --> 0:00:17.120 from the past one thousand plus episodes and repost them 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:20.840 and hopes that you might discover something old. Here we 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:23.480 go something old? Is that a good way to sell something? 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:26.880 That's why we call them classics and selects. July twenty nine, 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:29.720 two thousand ten, was a very special day because that 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:35.000 is the day we released the episode How Traffic Works. Yes, traffic, 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:39.919 not drug trafficking, but traffic, car traffic. We all hate it, 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:42.640 but you know what, maybe you should understand it a 0:00:42.680 --> 0:00:45.960 little better. Really interesting, and I believe Josh even coined 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:48.839 his own term. If I'm not mistaken for this one, 0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:51.680 a break a bubble? Dare I say? Does my memory 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:54.800 serve me? We'll find out by listening right now to 0:00:54.960 --> 0:01:02.600 How Traffic Works. Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:11.680 House Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:14.960 I'm Josh Clark. With me is Charles Precious Bryant? How 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:18.319 you doing, Precious? This is the podcast based on the 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:22.120 novel Push by Sapphire. Yeah, that is absolutely right, word 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:24.360 for word. Right, Jerry just got back because you did 0:01:24.440 --> 0:01:29.800 a spoiler. Yeah, for Precious I've known for spoilers, aren't I? 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:34.160 At least two? It was Boiling Home. No, there was 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:37.200 a there was um six ft under. There was another 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:39.080 one I spoiled too, wasn't there? Yeah, there was one 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:40.960 you spoiled That was a really old movie, and I 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:43.160 was like, come on, that movie is like fifteen years old. 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:46.480 There's a statute of limitation, was it, Buck Rubon's I Yeah, 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:49.560 I think that was it? Yeah, me too, Chuck. Yes, 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:54.280 have you ever been in traffic? That's the best I got. 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:56.120 How do you set this up? Chuck? Do you like 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:58.040 Steve Winwood? Yeah? You know I was going to make 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:00.320 a Traffic the band comment. Have you ever seen the 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:05.400 low spark of high heeled boys? Yeah? Yeah, that's it. 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:07.560 I'm seriously, I'm like trying to do you know he 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:12.960 was like when he first joined Traffic, thinks a he's 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:18.200 a lothario. Yeah, and by that I mean in Prodigy. Yeah, yeah, Traffic. 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:21.120 I've been in traffic, buddy, you Yes, I have actually 0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:24.519 been in traffic. Um, happens a lot because I don't 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:30.079 ride Marta. You ride are fine, fine, crippled public transit 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:33.920 system here in Atlanta. I'm never in traffic anymore. It's 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:37.280 it's really been a huge difference in my life. Yeah. Well, 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:41.959 I don't ride Marta because, um, I usually I tend 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:46.200 to avoid the smell of urine, and UM, reading while 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:48.959 moving makes me sick. So I'm you know, plus, I 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:53.239 I value I used to value being able to smoke. Yeah, dude, 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:54.520 I was just about to say that's why I used 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:56.560 to drive. Yeah, and now I'm just like, I just 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:58.079 do it out to have it. But I get caught 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:00.639 in traffic a lot, and it stinks. I don't see 0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:03.160 you on a public transport. You're not You're not that 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:07.359 kind of social No. That's the other thing too, It's like, oh, hey, 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:10.040 we worked together, let's talk the whole time. No, I don't. 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:12.639 I wear my sunglasses. It can be dark and raining, 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:14.720 and I've told everyone here that if I have my 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:17.480 shades on, that means the office is closed. Nice, the 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:20.480 store is shut down. That's very nice, stor it looks 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:23.400 super cool. Alright. So I'm a jerk that doesn't talk 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:28.560 to coworkers. Now moving on, buddy, It's okay, Chuck. Do 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:33.440 you remember when we recorded quicksand yes, do you remember 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:36.560 how we said that there's like a finite amount of 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:39.160 stuff out there about quick thing, because there's a finite 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:43.840 amount to know. There's a finite amount to know about traffic. 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:46.960 But there's tons of information out there. Yeah, lots of 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:49.960 little side things to know for sure. Yeah, Because ultimately, 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:55.840 traffic happens in two ways. One is, there is simply congestion. 0:03:56.000 --> 0:04:01.640 There's just too many cars on the road to carry 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:06.000 to carry the flow of traffic quickly. Right. The other 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:11.400 way is there is some unpredictable event that somebody's pulled over, 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:15.760 somebody's broken down, there's a wreck, whether maybe an event 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:19.679 that falls under congestion, police have pulled over a traffic 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:22.520 a speeder. People always slow down for that, and that's it. 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:26.880 That's it. Those are pretty much the two broad categories 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:31.640 that traffic can be created, right, um. And what happens 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:36.200 in each of those events is somebody upfront puts on 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:41.839 their brakes and that that one press of the brakes 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:45.400 travels backward all the way through right when you have 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:47.600 a bunch of different cars and different lengthes doing that 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:50.200 at the same time, you have traffic you know what 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:55.599 that's called traffic wave. Yes, that's true. It's a domino effect. 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:57.600 It's very easy, it is. And I came up with 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:01.880 my own idea of just scribing this. You're ready by okay, 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:04.159 So what I came up with is called the traffic bubble, 0:05:04.640 --> 0:05:09.080 okay by Josh Clark. So the traffic bubble happens when 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:13.119 somebody is driving along and presses their brakes for whatever reason. 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:16.000 And just imagine that when they press that break, the 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:19.920 big bubble grows over the car, okay, And it starts 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:23.560 very slowly traveling backward. And each car behind that car 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:27.520 that's that created the traffic bubble isn't allowed to accelerate 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:30.640 again until the traffic bubble is passed through them, right, 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:33.560 But then the further back the traffic bubble goes, the 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:38.200 more it dissipates, until eventually the people far enough back 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:40.240 don't have to go through the traffic bubble and they're 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:44.360 not affected by it. And does the bubble pass through 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:46.720 the front cars to where they can then again accelerate. 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:49.400 Is that how you see it as a moving bubble? Yeah? 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:52.360 Over the bubble travels backwards over the traffic, and then 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:55.040 once it passes over you, you're allowed to accelerate again. 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:57.040 I believe you're just going to turn my friends the 0:05:57.080 --> 0:06:00.480 traffic bubble like that jerk science or no break bubble, 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:02.920 that's what I called it. Okay, breaking bubble. Yeah, like 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:07.120 a piping effect. I hate that guy and he hates you. 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:10.560 I don't care so traffic Josh, you want, We might 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:12.440 as well thrown a few stats here. Yeah, this one's 0:06:12.480 --> 0:06:16.320 that heavy. It is. This this article by our colleague 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:20.080 Jonathan Strickland at tech Stuff. Yeah, the bald this podcast 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:24.560 on staff here, Uh, what's a good stat here? The 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:26.880 estimated traffic costs If you wanna talk about cost of 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:30.640 traffic in about five years ago, they estimated about seventy 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:35.159 eight billion dollars. And that's only fuel and waste of time. 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:38.840 They don't take into account like pollution, environmental damage, health 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:41.440 costs due to pollution. I mean it would really add 0:06:41.480 --> 0:06:44.040 up if you got to, you know, include those things. Yeah, 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:48.560 and um with extra gas that was bought in two 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:51.840 thousand seven, right, isn't that the year that studies connected 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:56.719 or covered UM we in the US bought two point 0:06:56.800 --> 0:07:01.920 nine billion billion extra gallon of oil because of traffic, 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:06.359 and the annual cost for each individual motorists in America 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:10.320 was like seven ten bucks just sitting there, just from traffic, 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:12.840 not from you know, the gas that you need to 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:14.560 actually get from point A to point B, but the 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:18.320 extra gas used from idoling. Yeah, crazy, yeah, And I 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:20.880 believe l A tops it out obviously at about two 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:23.840 weeks a year you potentially spend sitting in your car 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:26.800 and traffic. Yeah. L A has um. There's this group 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:30.440 called the Texas Transportation Institute, and I think they're out 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:36.080 of A and M. Maybe they're awesome. They they they 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:39.320 are like the leaders and studying and understanding and trying 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:43.800 to mitigate traffic, right um. And they came up with 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:48.760 this thing called the travel time index, right yeah. So basically, 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:51.400 you take the amount of time it takes and it's 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:54.160 specific to each city, and it's for each city. It's 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:58.080 not compared from city to city. It's compared to a 0:07:58.120 --> 0:08:01.360 certain time in one city to another time in the 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:04.840 same city. So in an off peak time, say you 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:08.200 can travel the speed limit, it takes you one hour 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:11.480 to get from point A to point B in Los Angeles, 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:16.600 it would take one point nine two hours doubles your 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:19.960 time basically during yeah, during rush hour, So it takes 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:22.040 twice as long to get from point A to point 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:24.600 B during rush hours compared to off peak. That's the 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:27.880 travel time index. Yeah, and you know you have to 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:29.720 do this anywhere you live where there's heavy traffic. But 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:31.000 when I lived in l A, I used to have 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:33.600 to always think, all right, well, this would take me 0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:36.920 forty five minutes normally. So and when you work in 0:08:37.120 --> 0:08:39.480 the movie business, you you can't be late. That's just 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:41.760 not one of the things you do. You've got to 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:43.600 be there on time or early. So you're like, well, 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:45.400 it's supposed to take me forty five minutes, I'm gonna 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:48.520 give myself like two hours. I gave myself more than 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:51.840 double to get anywhere I needed to go. That's that's 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:55.120 very smart. It's awful, is what it is. Yeah. L 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:57.079 A's kind of bad, but chuck, we have it pretty 0:08:57.120 --> 0:08:59.560 bad too. Yeah, Land is really bad. We're among like 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:02.679 probably I think the top three or four. I heard 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:06.120 a year or so ago that Atlanta had toppled l A, 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:08.600 but I never saw any citation. Well, all those it 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:11.120 depends on how they are rating. It. Some they rade 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:13.520 the differently, like the amount of time you spend in 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:15.679 your car commuting or the amount of time you sit idling, 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:19.160 So it kind of depends. But Atlanta's way up there, Boston, Seattle, 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:23.720 San Francisco actually think is absent from that. Oh really, 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:27.520 I think that they have made some moves that have 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:30.200 kind of mitigated traffic and gotten them off some of 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:32.640 the I know, the Big Dig was messing everything up. 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:35.520 The Big Dig was just killing people. Yeah, and d 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:38.040 C is awful. Have you ever driven around there? Uh? No, 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:41.360 I haven't. You was talking about how especially during the summer, 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:44.680 during the travel or the tourist season, it's just mind 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:47.720 numbing it is. Yeah, I mean way out into the 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:50.480 suburbs in Virginia and Maryland sitting there. Yeah. You know 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:52.120 what they did in l A that I saw one 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:54.240 time that I had never seen was I was going 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:56.040 down the highway one day and I noticed everyone was 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:59.040 slowing down. And I looked up ahead on the expressway 0:09:59.800 --> 0:10:05.640 and they were to California Highway patrol cars doing huge 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:11.640 slow ses back and forth on the six lanes of expressway, 0:10:11.880 --> 0:10:14.400 not letting, like keeping everyone back like a nask, like 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:16.720 a like a paste. Yeah, like a pace car. But 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:18.719 you know they weren't driving straight. They were driving these 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:21.000 big s. Is like, don't go buy me. I've never 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:22.960 seen that before in my life. What would have made 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:25.560 it even funnier is if they've been driving those ses 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:28.080 with their hands out their window and their guns just 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:30.600 shooting into the area while they were doing it. That 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:33.160 would really say, don't drive past me. Yeah, that would 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:36.520 have been great. And apparently that was they do that. 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:38.160 It's a I don't know what they call it, but 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:45.640 that's too slow everyone down. It's called being a yes. 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:48.600 And on that note, my friend Derek has a joke 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:52.520 about Atlanta traffic, and he's right, because Atlanta before their traffic, 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:57.200 everyone's driving really really what fast. Yeah, that's one of 0:10:57.200 --> 0:10:59.920 the great characteristics about it LANDA as far as i'm can, 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:03.720 you go as fast as you can. I mean, the 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:06.720 average um flow of traffic, I would say it's about 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:09.080 seventy miles an hour around here, and that's with like 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:11.920 a lot of people all around you. Yeah, everybody's bumper 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:14.280 to bumper going at least seventy and the cops don't 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:17.440 pull you over unless you're going over seventy and even 0:11:17.480 --> 0:11:20.160 then like, it's usually like you're going eighty or ninety 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:23.520 when you get pulled over because everybody else is going seventy. Right, 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:26.080 And that's my buddy Derek's joke is in Atlanta, and 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:28.280 it's really true. It's not a joke. Everyone drives as 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:30.080 fast as they can every day until someone and then 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:33.480 someone recks, right, and then traffic backs up every single day. 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:57.880 That's Atlanta traffic. Are we done? So let's just sit 0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:01.400 here and do traffic stories about what what angers us? 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:04.439 So check. There's a lot of smart people who study 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:07.520 traffic because like you said, there's um, what was it, 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:11.720 how much money in two eight billion just from fuel 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:15.080 and wasted time? Because think about it, a person's time 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:18.720 is money, right, And if you're sitting in traffic, unless 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:20.600 you're one of those jerks like me who has an 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:26.160 iPhone that emails while he's driving, then you're wasting money, right. Um. 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:30.400 And actually there's this there's a group called Commute Solutions 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:33.240 are out of Santa Cruz and they calculated the actual 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:36.160 cost per mile of driving, not just traffic, but driving 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:40.880 to each person is one point nineteen one dollar nineteen 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:45.160 cents per mile. Yeah, and that includes everything I don't 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:47.560 know how they came up with that number, but check 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:50.920 it out. Well, if we're talking about highways and stats, 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:54.600 we might as well talk about the same. Texas group 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:58.439 did a study and um they found that traffic over 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:04.240 the past years increased and by they predict it will 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:09.959 go up another And here's what's remarkable. One only one 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:13.680 of all our roads are highways, yet they shoulder half 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:17.720 the traffic, half the car travel. Yeah. Crazy, it is crazy, 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:20.800 And you don't usually think about when you think about traffic. 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:24.600 I usually think about the highway myself, although I rarely 0:13:24.679 --> 0:13:27.400 get on the highway anymore. It's all surface streets that 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:30.079 I take to and from work. Yeah, what do you go? 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:36.120 Duid hills? Okay? I go basically up Piedmont um. But 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:39.400 it's it's traffic every day. But I don't think of 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:41.040 it as traffic. And I think of traffic, I think 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:44.679 of seventy five at rush hour. And just like UH 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:49.200 exit ramps backed up, the the thing is is our 0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:54.640 surface streets are also intended to handle overflow of highway traffic. Right, 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:57.280 not just people who are backed up from the exit 0:13:57.360 --> 0:13:59.199 ramp back onto the street, but I mean people who 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:02.400 are making a con just decision like me to find 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:04.560 a different way that doesn't have anything to do with 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:07.920 the highway. Right, And they found that if you want 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:12.160 to widen a highway, I think we talked about this 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:15.719 in like the urban planning one um that when you 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:20.480 when you widen the highway, Um, there's something called latent demand. 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:23.400 It's a theory that if you want in the highway, 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:25.040 people like me are going to be like, oh well, 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:27.120 now there's a leven lanes instead of five, so I'll 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:30.480 just hop on the highway. And so the demand increases 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:33.680 in step with the widening of the lanes. So it 0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:37.440 actually doesn't mitigate anything by adding more lanes to a highway, right. 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:38.960 I think they said the only way that will work 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:42.320 is if they outpaced demand with lanes, and that just 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:47.320 doesn't happen. There's too many cars expensive, But that kind 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:50.080 of makes sense to throw that money then instead into 0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:55.800 upfront costs for a light rail system, you know, hippie. 0:14:56.720 --> 0:15:00.240 Actually I'm still holding up for personal rapid transit. That 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:03.400 was a palette in me podcast, but it was interesting. 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:06.280 It's a good one. Uh RAMT metering. If if you're 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:08.640 talking about solutions, that's another one. And they had these 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:10.120 in l A. And they have them here in Atlanta. Now. 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:12.400 It's where when you go to get on the highway. 0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:15.720 Now they have stoplights that just allow like one car 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:18.840 through every few seconds. So you know, when you get 0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:22.640 on at Freedom Parkway, I used to fly around that 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:25.720 curve it was fun and jump into traffic and squeeze 0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:28.760 in however I could. And that's you know, I was 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:31.760 one of those jerks causing traffic. Well, I think anybody 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:34.920 entering is that, because again with traffic, especially with just 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:40.080 straight up congestion, there's just too many cars in one place, 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:43.360 especially when you have a line of traffic and then 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:46.280 more people directly adding to that lane. Yeah. Right, But 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:50.040 RAMT metering really really works. They did a study in Minnesota. 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:52.760 They have four d and thirty RAMT meters and in 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:55.640 two thousand they shut them all down for seven weeks 0:15:56.240 --> 0:16:00.800 and during that time traffic accidents increased. And then afterward 0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:04.960 they re reinstituted it and they saw the capacity increased 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:07.440 by fourteen percent, and they walked away from that project 0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:12.840 going like with their hands in their pockets. Yeah, like, 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:15.680 we should probably not tell anybody about that. Yeah, I 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:17.240 was trying to do a Minnesota accent. But that was 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:19.080 pretty good. I couldn't do it. All I said was, 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:21.440 oh no, it wasn't bad though. That's how they say it. 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:24.080 H O V lanes is another thing that they've done 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:27.920 pretty much countrywide. Carpool lanes as help. Yeah, I always 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:30.040 forget when I have another person in the car, though. 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:33.360 Uh yeah, I'll get like halfway where I'm going and say, 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:35.480 oh man, let's get in the carpool lane. Yeah, I 0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:38.320 have to say though. The h O V lane, to me, 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:42.480 it's it's an extension of the fast lane. So you 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:43.840 got the fast lane and then you have the h 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:46.240 O V lane, And I hate it when it's the 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:49.160 fast lane is just the fast ling. The HOV lane 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:51.320 is like, I drive as slow as I want, but 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:54.280 I have, you know, four people in my car. It 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:56.200 makes it difficult. It's it's kind of like the h 0:16:56.280 --> 0:16:59.040 O V lane to me, is you have two or 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:02.600 more people, you're willing to drive ten miles faster than 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:05.480 anybody else on the highway. Agreed, And since we talked 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:08.119 about pet peeves in our last podcast, My one of 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:10.360 my largest pet peeves is when I'm sitting in traffic 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:13.240 and I'll see people speeding by me in the h 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:17.080 OV lane by themselves. Nothing bothers me more than people 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:19.159 that think the rules don't apply to them. I hate that. 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:22.359 I hate those people, or people who um use the 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:25.280 shoulder and just drive along in traffic as far as 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:27.480 they can to get like fifty cars ahead. Yeah. I 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:29.199 almost got plowed over in l A one time. I 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:31.720 was getting out to get in the regular exit lane 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:33.720 and almost got creamed by a truck that was on 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:36.520 the shoulder, and I screamed at him that he almost 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:38.200 killed me, and he says, what are you a cop? 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:42.040 That's l a for you. It was like, he literally 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:45.080 almost killed me. What are you a cop? If you're 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:47.280 a cop, you'd be making lazy ss is in front 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:49.399 of try ands firing my gun into the air. Exactly. 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:53.560 What else, Josh, Uh, there's matting lanes. We already talked 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:56.640 about that, But there's that one. Then there's um probably 0:17:56.680 --> 0:18:01.399 the most uh contentious idea cones shim pricing, which is 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:05.080 basically taxing people to drive. And there's a guy named 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:08.440 Alistair Darling. I don't know if he's still the Transportation secretary, 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:11.840 but he's something of a rock star in the transportation 0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:14.800 world because he was a huge proponent of this, and 0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:19.280 he said in England, yeah, he was the British Transportation secretary. 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:24.000 He basically said, you know, cars exact a toll on 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:27.600 the environment and on the road, um, just by driving 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:29.840 on him, So we should charge people to drive on 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:32.280 the roads. What he failed to mention is that we 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:35.120 already do. There are things called taxes, and those are 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:38.840 meant to pay for the roads. Right, he's forgetting about 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:43.040 you know, all the other misused money. Um. But they 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:47.080 did actually have one in Great Britain. Do they still chuck? No, 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:49.480 I don't think they ever instituted. They had a pilot 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:54.679 program from two thousand three to seven and it worked 0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:57.880 like a champ for him in London at least. Yeah, 0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:02.119 there was a thirty percent dropping congest shin decrease in 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:07.680 in fossil fuel consumption, decrease in CEO two emissions. So 0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:12.879 like in London, Singapore, Stockholm, San Francisco, San Francisco, the 0:19:13.040 --> 0:19:16.359 Institute one No, San Francisco is studying a New York 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:19.600 Bloomberg has proposed it and they've studied it. And I 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:23.520 just pulled this from this week. Actually, Lord Adonis is 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:27.920 actually he's the Transport Secretary unless it's a new guy. 0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:32.440 What was your guy? His name is Lord Adonis. Lord Adonis, 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:37.680 the Transport Secretary came up with a new hotel student. Yeah, 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:40.480 that's where Joshua be staying in New York under Lord 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:43.600 uh he. It says it's ruled out the introduction of 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:46.080 a national road pricing for the next parliament. But they 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:50.560 uncovered that civil servants are still involved with the project 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:53.920 and spending money on research even though they supposedly took 0:19:53.920 --> 0:19:56.120 it off the table. It was kind of a secret 0:19:56.160 --> 0:19:58.359 that they were still like tinkering with Oh. I thought 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:01.000 you were like saying this these board paying for this 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:04.040 research o their own paychecks. No, but they've sunk seven 0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:06.640 point two million pounds that I guess the public didn't know. 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:08.920 They thought it was off the table. So they're kind 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:11.560 of under some hot water, in some hot water. They're 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:14.879 they're in some deep quicksand yeah, they said, Golden Brown 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:17.399 and Alista Darling have been caught red handed planning a 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:22.880 spy in the sky system A spy in the sky. Nice. Yeah, yeah, 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:26.440 because I guess we should probably explain congestion pricing basically 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:29.360 every car on the road. I guess when you would 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:31.880 go get your vehicle tag or something. You also get 0:20:31.920 --> 0:20:36.800 a radio frequency identifier, right, and as you're driving, some 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:39.719 satellite is tracking you, or you pass through some sector 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:41.720 or something like that, and all of a sudden you're 0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:45.959 being you're in a toll area. And much like say, uh, 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:50.159 one of those toll passes, UM, you are sent a 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:53.359 bill or there's like you have to set up like 0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:56.960 a credit card or a bank account, attach that to 0:20:57.080 --> 0:21:01.600 your to your tag, and it just draws money from 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:05.520 it based on however much you drive in there. In Singapore, 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:09.879 when they first instituted, there's an actually UM they had 0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:12.920 a flat rate for downtown, which is the most congested 0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:16.359 during peak hours. You had to pay three bucks to 0:21:16.520 --> 0:21:18.600 just drive around downtown and you could drive around all 0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:21.840 you wanted. Uh. And as they as as they've gotten 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:24.520 better at it, they're they're getting a little fancy schmancy 0:21:24.640 --> 0:21:26.640 with it, you know, like, UM, well, if you want 0:21:26.640 --> 0:21:29.719 to drive here, it's a dollar seventy five for twenty minutes, 0:21:29.760 --> 0:21:32.080 but you can back, you know, two blocks over and 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:34.919 it's just fifty cents and so on. Well, that's one 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:37.240 of the rubs that UM. One of the big things 0:21:37.280 --> 0:21:39.440 is in England at least in other places too. I 0:21:39.440 --> 0:21:43.040 think they've suggested paying more for peak hour so be 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:46.520 flexible in your work schedule. But then, of course people 0:21:46.560 --> 0:21:49.400 that are a friend of the poor say that's progressive 0:21:49.400 --> 0:21:52.720 taxation because white color dudes can be all flexible and 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:54.679 work from home, but the poor have to get up 0:21:54.720 --> 0:21:56.920 and go to work during peak hours. So you're they're 0:21:56.920 --> 0:21:59.760 basically paying for the road that the rich man drives on. Exactly, 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:02.520 That's exactly right, And that's the big problem. I mean, 0:22:02.560 --> 0:22:05.800 aside from having to pay to drive with with a 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:10.720 with a congestion tax. Yeah, um, what else can you do? Chuck? 0:22:10.840 --> 0:22:13.000 And also remember we were talking it's this isn't just 0:22:13.080 --> 0:22:16.640 highways surface streets to everybody. Don't get all anxious. We're 0:22:16.640 --> 0:22:21.000 talking about surface streets as well. Yes, uh, surface streets. 0:22:21.080 --> 0:22:22.919 You get a lot of suburban sprawl, you know, like 0:22:23.119 --> 0:22:26.680 here in Atlanta, you've got like out in Roswell twenty 0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:30.679