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Speaker 1: Welcome to the solid verbal hell that for me. I'm

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Speaker 1: a man, I'm for it.

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Speaker 2: I've heard so many players say, well, I want to

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Speaker 2: be happy. You want to be happy for a day?

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Speaker 2: Da steak? Is that woo woom?

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Speaker 1: And Dan and Tye.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back to the salad verbal boys and girls. My

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Speaker 3: name is ty hilden Brandt, that fine gentleman over there

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Speaker 3: in sunny, springy summery yeah, Chicago, Illinois. Dan Rubinstein, sir,

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Speaker 3: how are you?

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Speaker 2: I am wearing short shorts I mean, for me about

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Speaker 2: seven inch and seeing something like that, so you know,

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Speaker 2: the the legs are breathing. I got flip flops on.

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Speaker 2: I am having a guest. We are having a guest

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Speaker 2: on that we're especially always excited to have on. And

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Speaker 2: this is how I like to talk about Matt Brown

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Speaker 2: and his appearances on the show. He is he is smart,

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Speaker 2: he is well read, he is well connected, and he

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Speaker 2: is here to answer our questions about, you know, the

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Speaker 2: future of the sport and the business of the sport

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Speaker 2: and things happening behind the scenes. And we get to

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Speaker 2: yell at him. Though we don't yell at him. We

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Speaker 2: yell near him, we yell around him in his vicinity,

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Speaker 2: and he takes our emotion and atomizes it into sense

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Speaker 2: and insight, and so I'm especially excited for that. So

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Speaker 2: if I seem hopped up on caffeine or some other

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Speaker 2: sort of altering substance, it's just the natural enthusiasm I

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Speaker 2: have for a show like this.

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Speaker 3: You forgot to add that he's got a Bob Diaco

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Speaker 3: caliber hairline. Almost well, absolutely, we're going to have Matt

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Speaker 3: Brown from Extra Points on momentarily here to talk about

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Speaker 3: all things nil Transfer Portal, NCAA. The sport's changed, at

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Speaker 3: least feels like it's changed a lot in a very

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Speaker 3: short period of time, and we could think of no

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Speaker 3: one better to bring him back and talk through what

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Speaker 3: it all means. Because Matt does this again for his

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Speaker 3: newsletter Extra Points. We'll be talking with Matt Brown for

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Speaker 3: the better part of an hour here, so stay tuned

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Speaker 3: for that episode. All of our episodes brought to you

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Speaker 3: by our good friends over at Geico. Don't forget to

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Speaker 3: subscribe to the Soliverble podcast. We do two episodes publicly

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Speaker 3: every week on Tuesday and Thursday. We also do a

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Speaker 3: bonus episode where we answer your questions part of something

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Speaker 3: we call the brew and a. You can go on

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Speaker 3: out too verballers dot com for more info. On our patreon,

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Speaker 3: we release this episode all of our episodes a little

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Speaker 3: bit early via our early access promotion. Can also view

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Speaker 3: video versions of all of our interviews and shows that's

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Speaker 3: available out there as well, in addition to extra bonus

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Speaker 3: content like the pizza show Dan, that we got to

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Speaker 3: put together.

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Speaker 2: That's true. That, it's very true. Our Patreon, our verballers

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Speaker 2: at verballers dot com. It's not a collective per se.

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Speaker 2: But it's not not a collective. It's not not a collective,

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Speaker 2: not a collective, so I would get involved with it

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Speaker 2: right now.

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Speaker 3: Last, but certainly not least solid giveaway dot com is

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Speaker 3: where you can throw your name in the hat to

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Speaker 3: win that Frank Beemer signed mini helmet. We will draw

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Speaker 3: the winner at the end of May. Again, just a

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Speaker 3: few quick, free and easy steps that you need to

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Speaker 3: go through in order to get your name in the running.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, folks have been very interested in the Frank

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Speaker 3: Beamer helmet. So Frank a couple of weeks yet if

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Speaker 3: you're interested. Yeah, absolutely all right, Dan, we invited back

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Speaker 3: one of our favorite guests. It is because a lot

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Speaker 3: is going on in this universe of college football. Matt

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Speaker 3: Brown of Extra Points with Matt Brown, which you can

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Speaker 3: find at extra Points mb dot com. It is a

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Speaker 3: daily newsletter on all the off the field forces that

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Speaker 3: shape college sports from FBS to nai A. Matt Brown, Sir,

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Speaker 3: how are.

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Speaker 1: You, fellas. It's always good to be back here. I'm

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Speaker 1: doing well. The sun is out, there's yeah, we have

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Speaker 1: I've joked about this a lot, and I think with

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Speaker 1: you guys, we're all blessed to be working and writing

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Speaker 1: about this sport and interesting times, even if we wish

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Speaker 1: sometimes it wasn't so interesting. But as someone who hates

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Speaker 1: being bored, this is great. There's always something to dig into.

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Speaker 3: Interesting. To the extent that we just talked a little

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Speaker 3: bit off air, none of us have taken a vacation

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Speaker 3: in quite some time.

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Speaker 2: No I did.

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Speaker 3: I It were working. That was a working vacation.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I recorded episodes while I was away, and

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Speaker 2: you and I, I mean, it wasn't vacation, but we

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Speaker 2: were in New York and we did record an episode

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Speaker 2: in a hotel room. So we got away and worked.

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Speaker 2: So that it's pseudo, it counts a little bit. So

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Speaker 2: I'll take it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's working. It's it's working without home field advantage, right,

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Speaker 1: it's working in a different place, looking at different walls.

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Speaker 1: That still counts for something.

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Speaker 2: Correct, absolutely.

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Speaker 3: So Look, we had you on back in February, and

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Speaker 3: I feel like a lot has changed since then.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 3: Collectives collectives, if not much more a thing than they

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Speaker 3: were then, are definitely more front of mind for a

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Speaker 3: lot of college football fans, sort of like the new podcast. Right,

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Speaker 3: everyone's got a collective these days, at least I'm willing

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Speaker 3: to talk about it. We've seen a star receiver, Jordan Addison,

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Speaker 3: enter the portal officially for professional development, unofficially because of

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Speaker 3: I think nil offers or opportunities. We have seen the

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Speaker 3: NC DOUBLEA over the last couple days ride in like

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Speaker 3: a white night and pass some retroactive rules which hopefully

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Speaker 3: you can help us decipher. And on Tuesday, on your

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Speaker 3: website or through your newsletter Extra Points with Matt Brown,

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Speaker 3: you wrote a piece about the FBS potentially splitting off,

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Speaker 3: or I should say momentum perhaps building around the FBS

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Speaker 3: splitting off and doing their own things separate from the

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Speaker 3: NC DOUBLEA. So a lot of this is going on

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Speaker 3: all of it, by the way, underpins the Ivory Tower

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Speaker 3: of mainstream college football analysis with a lot of kids

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Speaker 3: these days type of commentary, Did I leave out anything

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Speaker 3: important of note?

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Speaker 1: Beyond all of that, we also still have the Transformation

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Speaker 1: Committee that's meeting right now to change scholarship limits, change

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Speaker 1: what it means to be a Division one institution, change

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Speaker 1: how postseason tournaments work and revenue and everything. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: just beyond a lot of the basic assumptions that kind

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Speaker 1: of underpin college athletics as we know it for the

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Speaker 1: past thirty years, being reevaluated, very slow offseason so far,

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Speaker 1: really make shapine for the days when we had to

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Speaker 1: pretend to be really angry about satellite camps.

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Speaker 3: Last time we had you on, you were pretty measured

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Speaker 3: about nil and I believe your stance then was, Look,

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Speaker 3: there's a class of elite players. They're going to do

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Speaker 3: fairly well from this. That's the way it's designed. Nothing

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Speaker 3: earth chattering, though everybody else stands to make a buck.

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Speaker 3: At least they'll have opportunities. Since then, we have seen

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Speaker 3: the Jordan Addison thing, and we've also had news about

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Speaker 3: the eight million dollar collective with the alleged player from Tennessee.

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Speaker 3: Things have changed, at least I think from the perception

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Speaker 3: of the everyday fan. There is this notion out there

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Speaker 3: that the sport has rapidly evolved in a way that

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Speaker 3: feels wrong and feels dirty and feels different. Has your

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Speaker 3: view as somebody who covers college football and specifically this

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Speaker 3: corner of college athletics, has your view? Has your perception

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Speaker 3: changed at all since we last spoke back in February.

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Speaker 1: You know, honestly, it has, but I think maybe not

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Speaker 1: in the same way that other fans might might think

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Speaker 1: about it. So forgive me. This is getting a little

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Speaker 1: bit too into the weeds. But I think when we

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Speaker 1: last spoke, and this was part of my line when

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Speaker 1: I would talk to athletes themselves or talk to administrators,

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Speaker 1: you know, I really believed in this idea that lots

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Speaker 1: of different athletes could still make some money through marketing

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Speaker 1: deals that were designed to help a company actually make money.

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Speaker 1: You can go onto a marketplace, you can cut a

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Speaker 1: social media deal, you can go back and you can

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Speaker 1: work with with your high school athletes, and you're in

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Speaker 1: your hometown.

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Speaker 2: And that's romantic. You're a romantic, right, That's romantic.

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Speaker 1: Let me be clear. That still exists. People are still

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Speaker 1: making money from that. One thing that I have seen

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Speaker 1: in this industry, though, I think over the last several months,

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Speaker 1: is the legit I don't want to say legitimate, Like

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Speaker 1: the market driven NIL world is simply not as large

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Speaker 1: as I think the collective business community thought it was

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Speaker 1: going to be last June. And there's a couple of

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Speaker 1: different reasons for that. The biggest one, and I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to beat this into the skull of everybody here. I

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Speaker 1: don't think as fans and even reporters, we fully appreciate

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Speaker 1: how little free time a college athlete has. It's not

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Speaker 1: a fifteen or even a twenty hour week time commitment.

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Speaker 1: If you're a wide out at PIT, you can't just

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Speaker 1: go decide to study abroad in Italy like you've got

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Speaker 1: weights and meetings and other training and all the others

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Speaker 1: things here. And so a lot of people have decided,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to spend that tiny, limited amount of

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Speaker 1: free time chasing ads on Instagram, and then when I

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Speaker 1: do decide to do that, what brands are realizing increasingly

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Speaker 1: is that athletes, and I say this with love, Buy

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Speaker 1: and large are pretty bad at social media. And that's

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Speaker 1: and and you know they're not. They're not Twitter brain

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Speaker 1: poisoned maybe the same way that I am or some

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Speaker 1: of our reporter colleagues are. And if they're going to

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Speaker 1: chill something on Instagram, the big brand is realizing if

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Speaker 1: I work with a mom blocker, or if I work

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Speaker 1: with the professional influence, theer's somebody who has thirty hours

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Speaker 1: a week to invest in production quality and lighting and

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Speaker 1: campaign metrics, I'm going to get a better experience than

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Speaker 1: a twenty year old who's doing this on their way

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Speaker 1: to class. So I did a couple of these deals

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Speaker 1: in last July, September, October like not me, like I

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Speaker 1: mean I did, But I'm talking about the Buffalo Wild

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Speaker 1: Wings of the world. And now they have close to

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Speaker 1: a year of data, you're seeing a pullback. And so

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Speaker 1: I think we have to acknowledge that many of the

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Speaker 1: valuation's hypothetical valuations that we see on social media and

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Speaker 1: they get that gets sent out by some of these companies,

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Speaker 1: which I think ge reshared because people want to celebrate athletes,

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Speaker 1: They're just not accurate. And the actual market driven endorsement

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Speaker 1: world for athletes is not as large as I think

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Speaker 1: it would be. In last February. It's not as large

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Speaker 1: as a lot of venture capital firms thought it was

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Speaker 1: going to be last July. It could get that way

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Speaker 1: in the future, but I think it is fair to

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Speaker 1: say overwhelmingly of the total NIO market, it's dominated by collectives,

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Speaker 1: and it's dominated by deals that are not market driven

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Speaker 1: but recruitment driven.

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Speaker 2: Right, And we're now at the point where there appears

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Speaker 2: to be attempt at governing and preventing and legislating and

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Speaker 2: enforcing retroact. Like there's all sorts of different pillars about

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Speaker 2: how the NCAA or Confidence whoever is going to be

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Speaker 2: doing any of this governing and enforcing. Nothing makes sense.

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Speaker 2: Nothing makes sense as I read everything. It's like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: players have value, but schools aren't paying. Boosters aren't paying specifically,

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Speaker 2: but they're putting money into a fund. Like in a way,

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Speaker 2: it legitimizes value because players intrinsically we're talking about football players,

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Speaker 2: but all sorts of athletes have value. We're talking about

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Speaker 2: football players. They have value. And now we're saying, okay, well,

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Speaker 2: boosters can should continue to not have contact, But of

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Speaker 2: course collectives work around that by having non boosters run

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Speaker 2: the collective and somebody's talking to a coach or recruiting

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Speaker 2: coordinator somewhere. Doesn't it feel like we're all it's just

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Speaker 2: we're like when there are explosions in big cities. I'm sorry,

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Speaker 2: this is going in a number of big directions, but

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Speaker 2: it's like illegal gas lines plugged into each other, you know,

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Speaker 2: everything is jerry like. It just feels like this is

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Speaker 2: not at all a sustainable way to run what is

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Speaker 2: now a billion dollar industry. My question to you is sorry, no, yeah,

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Speaker 2: a long winded way of saying this. Doesn't this all

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Speaker 2: feel like theater? Doesn't this all feel like there's nobody

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Speaker 2: in charge and there's value for players, and yet we

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Speaker 2: have to like make everybody go through a crazy number

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Speaker 2: of hoops to convince ourselves that it's okay.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely think the way this is set up

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Speaker 1: up right now is dishonest. Yeah, and and it is.

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Speaker 1: I also think that it is, while not as exploitive

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Speaker 1: as the previous system, it's still exploitive of some of

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Speaker 1: the people that are doing the exploiting are different. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: I would rather have a little bit of money than

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Speaker 1: no money. But I don't want to sit here and

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Speaker 1: pretend that this is okay. We did it like a

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Speaker 1: couple of economists whoreight we fix college sports, and to

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Speaker 1: your point, by creating the system where we rather than

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Speaker 1: have the athletes enter into any kind of employment agreement

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Speaker 1: or have some of the structure that they would enjoy

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Speaker 1: in literally any other athletic marketplace in the world that

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Speaker 1: I'm aware of, and instead by by kind of doing

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Speaker 1: this wink week nolge knowdge, we're kind of laundering money

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Speaker 1: through increasingly fake charities to get to these athletes. Here.

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Speaker 1: I look at this and think, man, forget what you

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Speaker 1: thought about like exploitation for the NC douable A. Some

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Speaker 1: of this is tax fraud, some of this is actual

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Speaker 1: capital ce crimes. And so I admit, and as somebody

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Speaker 1: that I think was maybe a little maybe a little

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Speaker 1: bit more romance that I guess from retrospect, I should

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Speaker 1: have been about how this can change lives and help athletes.

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Speaker 1: I definitely look at this world right now and think

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Speaker 1: some of the system sucks. There's no way around it.

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Speaker 1: And this is coming from somebody that I think is

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Speaker 1: generally pretty pro athlete and as advocated for athletes on

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Speaker 1: my platform. I don't feel good about a lot of

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Speaker 1: the intermediaries. In a way, with this money is moving

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Speaker 1: around right now.

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Speaker 2: In a way, it legitimizes things in that there are

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Speaker 2: contracts being signed in that we assume athletes and people

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Speaker 2: who have the best interests of these athletes, whoever those are,

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Speaker 2: if their parents, guardians, whoever, are paying taxes. It's no

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Speaker 2: longer on a certain level, recruiting is no longer a

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Speaker 2: cash business. It's no longer under the table. So there

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Speaker 2: are interests, be it the irs, be it somebody who

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Speaker 2: say it's better than it was, it's better than it was,

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Speaker 2: that we can sort of track income better than we

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Speaker 2: ever could. But on a certain level, we're still talking

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Speaker 2: about nonsense. We're still talking about schools and conferences. I

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Speaker 2: humongous TV deals and then our hands off allegedly when

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Speaker 2: it comes to the labor force monetizing their own value.

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Speaker 2: And so I understand there are different contracts, be it

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Speaker 2: TV contracts. And I think it was was it Jack

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Speaker 2: Swarbrick who said that, you know, twenty thirty whatever, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: there's a reckoning company, because that's the end of the

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Speaker 2: ACC TV deal. I believe was the illusion he made.

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Speaker 2: Is there any way that everything can be blown up

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Speaker 2: in an advantageous way before then.

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Speaker 1: Sure, there's there's I think a couple of different land

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Speaker 1: mindes that could happen before the early twenty thirties.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: One of those, and one that I know that athletic

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Speaker 1: leaders are very cognizant of is the federal court system.

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Speaker 1: There's another case working its way through the system right now. Incidentally,

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Speaker 1: you know, not far from ties backyard. It involves I

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Speaker 1: think at least one Patriot League team. It's a LA yet,

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Speaker 1: right is. I think I think one of the teams

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Speaker 1: named in the in the the case where in Villanova

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Speaker 1: and a couple other small schools are suing to be

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Speaker 1: considered to be employees and say that these schools owe

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Speaker 1: us minimum wage. And that's working its way through the

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Speaker 1: court system. We're not don't. The analyst I talk to say,

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Speaker 1: don't expect a resolution until like late next year at

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Speaker 1: the absolute earliest. But that could theoretically create something where

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Speaker 1: the government says you can't keep doing this. Athletes are

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Speaker 1: employees and they can collectively bargain. You have to give

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Speaker 1: them contracts, you can fire them, you have to treat

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Speaker 1: them the way everybody else does. And if that's the case,

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Speaker 1: we have to blow up most of the scaffolding that's

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Speaker 1: kind of holding up a lot of this system. To

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Speaker 1: the other the Congress could do this potentially sooner, and

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Speaker 1: I think that that's substantially less likely. And I know

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Speaker 1: that's why people, you know, tune into college football podcast

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Speaker 1: is to hear about what various senators are going to

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Speaker 1: be doing. But are there are federal lawmakers that have

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Speaker 1: proposed really ambitious changes, and that is something that could happen. Right.

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Speaker 1: The other thing is the National Labor Relations Board that

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Speaker 1: you know that that initially said Northwestern football players could

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Speaker 1: attempt to unionize, has basically telegraphed saying, Hey, somebody else

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Speaker 1: should try to unionize again, and we'll you know, I

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Speaker 1: think we will look over you favorably. And I think

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Speaker 1: it's telling that the two people that A files complaints

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Speaker 1: so far have not been athletes. They've been advocacy groups

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Speaker 1: working on behalf of athletes. I also think this is

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Speaker 1: very unlikely, but that could happen too. So you have

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Speaker 1: those three land mines and then you have the television

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Speaker 1: land mine where but over the course of the course

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Speaker 1: of the next several years, the earning gap between the

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Speaker 1: big ten, and the SEC is likely to dramatically increase

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Speaker 1: over the next several years. Right, I believe you know

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Speaker 1: what people have been telling me, Like the next big

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Speaker 1: ten deal, which is going to be finalized in a

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Speaker 1: few weeks, probably going to be north of a billion dollars.

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Speaker 1: We'll be looking at the end of this decade of

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Speaker 1: a of Northwestern and Purdue and Minnesota getting close to

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Speaker 1: one hundred million dollars a year, which is not what

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Speaker 1: Notre Dame or Wake Forest or Utah will be getting.

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Speaker 1: Maybe that causes some other tensions, Maybe it doesn't. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, And I know that this makes for terrible

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Speaker 1: podcasting and terrible sports radio. But I feel like the

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Speaker 1: more that I get into the weeds of this world,

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Speaker 1: and I feel like I'm pretty in these weeds, the

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Speaker 1: harder it is for me to come up with the

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Speaker 1: pithy take because there's so many unknowns that, right, I

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Speaker 1: can't sit here and say, like, yes, Notre Dame is

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Speaker 1: going to be playing in the AFC South in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty eight, Like who knows? Man, Like a lot of

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Speaker 1: things can change.

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Speaker 3: Is so you mentioned landmine, Dan, You use the word landmine, Matt,

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Speaker 3: you did as well. Is the landmine just because suddenly

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Speaker 3: we're talking about all these zeros. Is the land mine

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Speaker 3: because the money is so large, because the landscape has changed,

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Speaker 3: and where we're headed is to a place that college athletes,

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Speaker 3: perhaps on the back of some new rights that have

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Speaker 3: been granted to them by legislatures or the courts or wherever,

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Speaker 3: they start saying, Okay, now we need a piece of this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, you have people saying that right now,

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Speaker 1: and because it's not It isn't just that the total

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Speaker 1: amount of money has changed and it's exploded over the

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Speaker 1: last twenty years, but I think the obligations that we've

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Speaker 1: asked of athletes have changed too. You know. The the

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Speaker 1: what a traditionalist I think would tell you is this, say, listen,

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Speaker 1: these young men are getting an education that is something

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Speaker 1: that we didn't get, or at least a free education,

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Speaker 1: and that's a very expensive compensation. That's enough. And we

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Speaker 1: have to reckon with the fact that not only have

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Speaker 1: revenues gone up, but athletes generally don't get to pick

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Speaker 1: their major. They don't get to do internships or study

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Speaker 1: abroad the same way that maybe any of us did.

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Speaker 1: You are limited to what classes you can actually take

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Speaker 1: and your college experience narrows considerably around the athletic building.

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Speaker 1: And I think you don't have to be, you know,

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Speaker 1: a labor agitator to look and say the money is

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Speaker 1: going up in many ways. You know, my benefits are

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Speaker 1: going down, my health risks are going up. Something eventually

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Speaker 1: has to change. This is what we're seeing with NIL.

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Speaker 1: I think it's part of that.

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Speaker 2: Is there a possibility that there was an inflection point

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Speaker 2: at some point, whether it was when a certain TV

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Speaker 2: contract or contracts or something were signed and we had

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Speaker 2: an opportunity collectively as a sport. I am not a

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Speaker 2: part of the sport directly, but was there a moment

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Speaker 2: where the NCAA, with major conferences whatever, could have said, Okay,

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Speaker 2: this is an insane amount of money. This is a

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Speaker 2: bigger business than college football was ever intended to be.

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Speaker 2: Let's think about the future of the organization of the sport.

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Speaker 2: And they simply said, we'll get to it another time,

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Speaker 2: right and now, is it possible we are just too

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Speaker 2: far gone to do anything meaningful when there are so

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Speaker 2: many interests, with so many competing priorities.

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Speaker 1: I definitely think there were a couple of points where

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Speaker 1: different leadership could have changed things Like if we go

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Speaker 1: back to the Oklahoma the Regent Supreme Court case in

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four, I think that's what deregulated college television

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Speaker 1: college football television broadcasts that allowed leagues and teams to

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Speaker 1: sign individual deals. That's what initially turned the cash figot on.

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Speaker 1: And you really began to see that in the early

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Speaker 1: nineteen nineties. That is something when the SEC realized like,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, we can quadruple our income here. You

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Speaker 1: could have done something. You could have done something in

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Speaker 1: the early two thousands, I think too, with the next

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Speaker 1: run of the really big mega contracts, and that didn't happen. Also,

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Speaker 1: there was an opportunity I think more recently, the NCAA

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Speaker 1: didn't have to appeal. Also in the Supreme Court they

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Speaker 1: got a mostly favorable reading and don Remi Aremi and

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Speaker 1: Mark Emmert, and I think a couple of their legal

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Speaker 1: council gave them what turned out to be really bad advice.

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Speaker 1: You could have changed a couple of things there now

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Speaker 1: like now, and I know it's really easy to beat

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Speaker 1: up on the NCAA. Obviously, your options are limited. We

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Speaker 1: could talk about that with collectives in a second. I

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Speaker 1: guess are much more limited. The bigger thing I think

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Speaker 1: for me isn't just that you have a limited number

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Speaker 1: of potential options. I think we've earned the right to

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Speaker 1: be skeptical of the people making those decisions. We have

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Speaker 1: a bunch of new commissioners in a lot of ways

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Speaker 1: that don't have a lot of personal trust with each other,

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Speaker 1: that don't some of them don't really have really deep

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Speaker 1: college sports experience. And one of the things that really

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Speaker 1: was kind of changed my thinking about this was the

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Speaker 1: discussion to expand the college football playoffs, where you had

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Speaker 1: every commissioner in that room wanted to do it. They

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Speaker 1: agreed on the major structural things, and there were a

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Speaker 1: couple of provincial, local, smaller sticking points, and they expensed,

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Speaker 1: get a ton of me of meals, and went to

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Speaker 1: a bunch of conferences and they couldn't get it done.

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Speaker 1: So that makes me think if you couldn't get something

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Speaker 1: done where you agreed fundamentally bout what you wanted to do,

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Speaker 1: how am I supposed to trust these same twelve to

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Speaker 1: fifteen people to fix something where they don't agree on

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Speaker 1: what they're supposed to be doing. In other industries, you

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Speaker 1: would be fired. They would bring in somebody else for that,

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Speaker 1: and that doesn't really happen in college sports. So even

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Speaker 1: as someone who I think is innately an optimist, it's

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Speaker 1: hard for me to look and go, well, this time,

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Speaker 1: this time, you know the Kreig Thompson's going to get

427
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Speaker 1: it figured out. You know this this time, Kevin Warren's

428
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Speaker 1: going to get it fixed. Like I I'll believe it

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Speaker 1: when I see it.

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Speaker 3: It reminds me a lot of like if we go

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Speaker 3: back to the late nineties the early aughts, this sort

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Speaker 3: of inflection point that we had with music where suddenly

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Speaker 3: you could get it online and it was clear that

434
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,560
Speaker 3: this was a new way that things were going. And

435
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,879
Speaker 3: instead the RIAA chose to fight it yep until they

436
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 3: couldn't and suddenly it was like court cases out the wazoo.

437
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 3: Eventually they found a way to turn on their own

438
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,919
Speaker 3: spicket and turn that into a different business model. But

439
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:47,919
Speaker 3: the NCAA fought this for a long time and they

440
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:51,399
Speaker 3: found themselves in a really awkward spot. Now, Ross Dellinger,

441
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,680
Speaker 3: I'm sure you saw it. Matt wrote a long piece

442
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 3: for SI about a week or two ago. I can

443
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,880
Speaker 3: link it up in our show notes about how boosters

444
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:03,680
Speaker 3: via collectives were getting involved in recruiting, and again it's long.

445
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:05,919
Speaker 3: Everyone should take a chance to read it because it

446
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 3: is thoughtful. Ross does a great job. Now the NCAA

447
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 3: swoops in with new rules, I guess to try and

448
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:16,919
Speaker 3: curb that practice. Where I'm confused is that my initial impression,

449
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:20,119
Speaker 3: as Dan alluded, was that the NCUBLEA was sort of

450
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 3: in this loveless marriage with college football in a sense,

451
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 3: because it sort of confirmed that when it passed NIL,

452
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 3: like you guys, go do what you want, we sort

453
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,160
Speaker 3: of don't want anything to do with it. As long

454
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 3: as we're not directly tied to it, it's cool. But

455
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,880
Speaker 3: now it's taken this turn. Now they want to get

456
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 3: more involved. I can't imagine, Matt, they have the bandwidth

457
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 3: to keep track of, let alone investigate all of these

458
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 3: different things that are going on. How does the NC DOUBLEA,

459
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 3: via these new rules see itself getting involved. How does

460
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,920
Speaker 3: the Matt Brown plan for the NC DOUBLEA for see

461
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,880
Speaker 3: How the NCAA should be involved with nil in this

462
00:23:58,920 --> 00:23:59,439
Speaker 3: new world?

463
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:01,919
Speaker 1: I think let me try to answer the first question,

464
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 1: the first part of that question. I think there are

465
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 1: three things that fans should know about this potential new

466
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 1: regulation or I guess clarification of it of an existing rule.

467
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 1: One is your point about the NCAA not having bandwidth,

468
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 1: I think is super important. There's less than two dozen

469
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: investigators right now employed in Indianapolis. A bunch of these

470
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,879
Speaker 1: people left during COVID and they weren't rehired, and morale

471
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 1: in that particular department, you know, was really low. People

472
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,119
Speaker 1: did not like going to work every day thinking like,

473
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,199
Speaker 1: what is my job to be the cream cheese police?

474
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,400
Speaker 1: And Indianapolis has talked about wanting to restaff, but there's

475
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,639
Speaker 1: a huge I mean, like, that's a very good question,

476
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 1: setting aside the legality of the rules, the morality of

477
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 1: the rules, the practical application of the rules, the you know,

478
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 1: Jean Smith is coming up here saying like, we want,

479
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:54,439
Speaker 1: we can't let these things last for five years. If

480
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:56,120
Speaker 1: we're going to get involved in the collective space, we're

481
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 1: going to turn things around in six months. Like I

482
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 1: would look at that and go in what army because

483
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 1: you don't you literally don't have the people. The other thing,

484
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 1: I think that that's worth noting. You know, on that note, though,

485
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 1: there's a lot of I think economists and attorneys and

486
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:15,160
Speaker 1: some sports commentators are speculating, you know, pretty forcefully that

487
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 1: none of these rules would stand up in court. And

488
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 1: I think many people are familiar with Justice Kavanaugh's concurring

489
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 1: opinion in the Austin case where he kind of dared

490
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 1: somebody to bring amateurism and like I would be willing

491
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,479
Speaker 1: to strike down the entire thing. I think it's important

492
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,199
Speaker 1: to realize that that's a concurring opinion. It wasn't the

493
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 1: opinion opinion. If it was the opinion opinion, he was

494
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 1: just written that in there. Clearly not ever Justice agreed

495
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 1: with that particular point, and there's no guarantee that the

496
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: Supreme Court would ever hear a case like this, Like

497
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 1: as I have talked to attorneys, the idea of the

498
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 1: NCAA saying we're not going to cap the amount of

499
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 1: money you can earn from nil. We're only capping who

500
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 1: can participate in that market during a very specific window.

501
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 1: Because we're not saying you can't do a deal with

502
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: the booster once you're already on campus. They're only trying

503
00:25:58,080 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 1: to tell people you can't do a deal with the

504
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: booster before you're enrolled. That might stand up in court.

505
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 1: Sometimes you win in court sometimes you lose. I think

506
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 1: it is I think it is impossible to conclusively state

507
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 1: the nc double A can't do that, which ben I

508
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 1: think brings me to the third thing I think is

509
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,919
Speaker 1: very important for everyone to know here. Everyone knew these

510
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 1: rules ahead of time, Like this was not a new

511
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 1: anything that was that was dropped earlier this week schools.

512
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 1: The initial guidance from the NCBA last July said, hey,

513
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: these deals can't be inducements to get anyone to go anywhere.

514
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 1: You as an institution have an obligation to monitor your boosters,

515
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: and all of these deals are supposed to be recorded

516
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 1: to compliance. So many of the people running these collectives

517
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,199
Speaker 1: were so confident that the NCAA could or would do

518
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 1: nothing that they were exceptionally sloppy and setting up a

519
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: lot of these deals. And so if literally anybody in Indianapolis,

520
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:50,920
Speaker 1: I think, looks at some of these contracts, they're going

521
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 1: to find people like basically saying like I committed recruit crimes,

522
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 1: notarized booster so and so. Where it's going to be

523
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 1: so easy to prove that someone stepped out here that

524
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 1: you might not need twenty investigators and a The biggest

525
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 1: reason for this too, not just for the collectives, is

526
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: through the agents that are representing these athletes, most of

527
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 1: many of whom are not real agents because you don't

528
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 1: have to be a real agent to represent a college athlete.

529
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 1: And so through so many people that are getting into

530
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 1: this world that were the same runners and uncles and

531
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 1: kind of third party people that were always boogeymen over

532
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,199
Speaker 1: the last several years. Now they just hung up a

533
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 1: different sign on their door and said their marketing agency.

534
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 1: And they have I think done their athletes into service

535
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 1: by making it very easy to get them into trouble

536
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:34,880
Speaker 1: if anybody's.

537
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 3: Well, and that was going to be my next question,

538
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 3: who gets in trouble? Because the schools have clearly tried

539
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,880
Speaker 3: to build a firewall between themselves and the business dealings.

540
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 3: Here you've got third parties, boosters, collectives, businesses, shell corporations, whatever,

541
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 3: that are actually funding these athletes. Ultimately, it's the athlete

542
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 3: that signs on the dotted line. So is it such

543
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,400
Speaker 3: that they're given bad advice? They signed the agreement, and

544
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 3: when the whole ship goes down, they're the ones that

545
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 3: take the fall. That doesn't seem fair.

546
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 1: It doesn't seem fair, And this is part of why

547
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 1: I write about this a lot, I mean, and not

548
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 1: to get really political, but like that's also kind of

549
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 1: how a lot of financial dealings, and like the justice

550
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: system works, Like when the deal goes bad, is it

551
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 1: the twenty year old football player that gets in trouble

552
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: or the billionaire? Generally odds favored the billionaire. Right, the

553
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 1: booster could get in trouble insofar as the NCAA forces

554
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 1: them to disassociate from the school, which to some people

555
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 1: is a big penalty. To some people, they don't care.

556
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 1: The school could theoretically get in trouble for failing to

557
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: build a culture of compliance, failure for institutional control. We'll

558
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 1: see that that might take six years. Championships are forever,

559
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 1: even if they take the banner down. But it's the

560
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 1: athlete who could lose eligibility, the athlete who could be

561
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 1: in trouble with the irs, the athlete who generally, I

562
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: think faces the most risk. And that's why I say

563
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: this is still an exploitive market. It's just a different

564
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 1: kind of exploitation because the biggest risk, and my view,

565
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 1: is still being shouldered by the individuals that have the

566
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: least representation and the least ability to handle it.

567
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 2: Who is this for? Who is this sort of governing

568
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 2: and enforcement for? Right like that? Like, yeah, okay, so

569
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 2: we have smart people at the NCAA on a certain level.

570
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 2: They know if they say right, they know that if

571
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 2: they say retroactively, we're gonna go after boosters who are

572
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 2: dealing with recruits in an illegal way. Whatever. Here's what

573
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 2: the boosters are going to do. They're going to do

574
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 2: exactly what anybody else who is experienced and motivated to

575
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 2: commit a financial crime is going to do. A booster

576
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 2: is going to say, I am no longer dealing with

577
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 2: the collective, but I'm donating five million dollars to Steve's genes.

578
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 2: And oh look at that. A blue chip quarterback has

579
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 2: a three million dollar deal with Steve's genes. And it's

580
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 2: going to be laundered elsewhere and we don't have the

581
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 2: forensic accountants. And what's going to happen is if somebody

582
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 2: is motivated, they will always find a way. Right, Yeah, yeah,

583
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 2: I watched The Big Short too, Right is what is

584
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 2: what is all this effort for? What is the endgame?

585
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 2: Is to what make Purdue fans happy?

586
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: That?

587
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 2: Like, what who are we doing this for?

588
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 1: Man? It's a great question because the system who have

589
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: benefits right now are the middleman. Right, there's a new

590
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 1: cottage industry of compliance software companies, nil marketing agencies, agents,

591
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: both above board and below board. Certainly not sports business newsletters.

592
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: I mean where that I would I wouldn't categorize them

593
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: as diabolical rent seekers. But yeah, like there's this whole

594
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: like new world that kind of gobbles up all the

595
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: money from that inefficiency. Like I look at this and

596
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: it sounded like maybe you too a degree. My mind

597
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 1: has changed on this. I think it'd be a lot

598
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 1: easier just saying, look, your employees, and that doesn't necessarily

599
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: ruin everything. Graduate students are employees and that hasn't ruined college.

600
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 1: We could say, as part of your employment agreement, you

601
00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: have to go to chemistry class and you have to

602
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: know you live in company housing or something. But we're

603
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: going to do this, so Steve Steve's genes doesn't or

604
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 1: the real estate Prince of Shreveport or whoever it is,

605
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: it's get to be involved in here. Maybe that's where

606
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 1: we go eventually. Like right now, you're right, there's been

607
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 1: an enormous demand of human capital and human ingenuity and

608
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: reportings and all these other things for something that, when

609
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 1: you describe it that way, sounds extremely stupid.

610
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I don't understand what the effort, all

611
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 2: of this effort is for if there's no structure to

612
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 2: the sport like it almost to me sounds like if

613
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 2: we're figuring out how to organize the sport so that

614
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 2: we have employees, so that we have you know, everything

615
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 2: is on paper and above board, and there are certain

616
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 2: contracts and buyouts and everything like that. I also now

617
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 2: start to wonder how many people care, how many fans

618
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 2: that are not on Reddit, that are not listening to podcasts,

619
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 2: that are not subscribing to excellent newsletters like Extra Points.

620
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 2: What is the percentage of people who consume college football

621
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 2: that are just Saturday fans that just tune into a

622
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 2: TV game of because they went to Maryland because they

623
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 2: went to UCF, or they go to the games because

624
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 2: they can see their buddies from college and eat brought

625
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 2: worst and corn or whatever. Like, are we all freaking

626
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 2: out in this tiny little echo chamber of like online

627
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 2: college football fans when the majority of people, if it's

628
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 2: the case, just want to go outside with their friends

629
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 2: and eat smoked meat.

630
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 1: And it brought worst in corn of the state.

631
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 2: The very weird combo.

632
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, clearly assimilated here. Yeah boy, No. I think about

633
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: this a lot, and I may not be the best

634
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: person for this prison because half of my audience are

635
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: ads and yeah of coaches and people in this world.

636
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: This is my theory, and this is somewhat data informed,

637
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 1: but I could be wrong. Is that there was a

638
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of people last summer that were like,

639
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 1: I'm not interested in college sports. If anybody gets any money,

640
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: like I want it for ten to everyone is nineteen

641
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 1: twenty eight Yale And when they saw the first run

642
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: of nil deals I think, which were commercials and you

643
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 1: got to see the the Kentucky football player do the

644
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: funny ad for the dentist, and you look at this

645
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: and think, actually, this might not only this is this

646
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: not a negative experience. It can be additive. It's funny.

647
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: I get a different relationship with the players than I

648
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: had before. I think very few people looked at last

649
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: football season as like I'm out of this because of NIL.

650
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,719
Speaker 1: The one place where I think we honestly could see

651
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 1: this challenge where Saturday fans say this isn't for me

652
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: anymore is it reminds me of what happened with Jordan

653
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: Adison here at PITT. And I think, on one hand,

654
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 1: you could say, hey, look, Pitt'll your best wide receiver

655
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 1: you guys got from Akron, and like you bring in

656
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 1: people from the portal too, the portal, give it, the portal,

657
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 1: take it away. And as we've all learned here, even

658
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 1: schools like under Dame and LSU and in Oklahoma are

659
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: not immune from talent leaving in some way. So the

660
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: you know, game organized game, we shouldn't get complain about this.

661
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 1: But I think if a PIT fan says, I know

662
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 1: I'm not going to win a national title, and I

663
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 1: know that I'm coming to the game here to eat

664
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: smoke meats with my friends, but I want to root

665
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 1: for us to go nine and three and ruin somebody's day,

666
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 1: because that's what totally, that's what the PIT experience is.

667
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 1: And if I feel that we can't actually develop any

668
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 1: three stars and turn them into NFL players and they

669
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 1: will leave before we ever get anything out of it,

670
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:29,439
Speaker 1: or before we can ever achieve that nine and three,

671
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 1: then it no longer feels worth it for me to

672
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 1: bring in that emotional investment like this is part of

673
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: the reason I don't follow baseball anymore. If other people

674
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 1: do great. I grew up in Ohio and I thought, like,

675
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 1: anybody good that's placed for Cleveland is going to get

676
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 1: traded into a big budget team. I get three years

677
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 1: with them, and they might be the team might be

678
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,360
Speaker 1: good once I'm thirty five. Now I have other hobbies.

679
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 1: I'm just going to not spend that emotional investment. I

680
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 1: think that's an legitimate possibility for the Boston colleges and

681
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 1: the Purdues and New Oregon states of the world, because

682
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,359
Speaker 1: in and international soccer, in other places, there's a transfer fee,

683
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 1: there's draft picks. You can still sell hope.

684
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 2: Right.

685
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 1: I I'm not saying I co signed this agreement, but

686
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 1: I don't want to gaslight somebody pretend it's not a

687
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 1: real thing to hear a fan of a BC say what,

688
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 1: I'm concerned. Now, you can't sell me hope if this

689
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 1: is totally and that's something I think the collective we

690
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: have to address.

691
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 2: You know, And doesn't that fall under the let's organize

692
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 2: the structure of how players go to schools, and let's

693
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 2: structure transferring and let's let's structure, what a what a

694
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,280
Speaker 2: player owes a school or what a school is entitled?

695
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 2: Like we have the grad grad transfer thing. We're encouraging education.

696
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,839
Speaker 2: Somebody graduates from an institution. Here, here is your your

697
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 2: big uh, you know, your pot of gold at the

698
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 2: end of the academic rainbow. You can transfer without penalty

699
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 2: and play doesn't Shouldn't that sort of idea encourage more

700
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 2: organization and structure for what you know a letter of

701
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 2: ten actually means and actually stands for. Shouldn't we want

702
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 2: shouldn't the people who say, you know, well, coaches pay

703
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 2: a penalty when they you know, up and leave that

704
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 2: the new school has to pay a buyout and thing.

705
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 2: Shouldn't there be I don't know if it's employment structure,

706
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 2: but doesn't aren't we pointing in that direction? If we

707
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 2: want more guard rails that you know that the big

708
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 2: the big term that everybody's using. Shouldn't we want that?

709
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:26,879
Speaker 1: I get that argument. I when I talk to administrators,

710
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 1: they come back and say, we're just lowly limited to

711
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 1: what we're allowed to do legally, right right, See if

712
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,320
Speaker 1: the NBA wants to do this, and they sit down, like, listen,

713
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 1: we think it's in the best interest of professional basketball

714
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 1: for fans in Indianapolis and Memphis and Cleveland and Sacramento

715
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 1: to believe they have a chance of retaining hometown stars. Therefore,

716
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 1: we're going to negotiate with the union and make it,

717
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 1: you know, create rule changes to make it easier for

718
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 1: those teams to do that. You negotiate with the union

719
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 1: like you can't latterly do it. So I don't want

720
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: to say it's impossible to build more of a structure.

721
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,359
Speaker 1: And it sounds like we're heading towards a world where

722
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 1: there'll be a transfer window, whether the recruiting calendar will

723
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 1: be simplified, and I think that should make things easier.

724
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 1: But some of the other structures you're talking about, I

725
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: think would be difficult to do without a union, without

726
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 1: collective bargaining about employment, without the chance to have more

727
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 1: of those conversations.

728
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,439
Speaker 2: Fair enough, Yeah, I don't I see that as being

729
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 2: And I think I'm with you with being the one

730
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:28,760
Speaker 2: true complaint where everybody's on the table to be poached

731
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 2: at all times. And I understand that, you know, kids

732
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 2: have an opportunity, and in Jordan Adison's case, of course,

733
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 2: new quarterback, his offensive coordinator gets his salary doubled by

734
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 2: Nebraska and leaves, which is an insane thing. That's a

735
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 2: different story. I understand from Jordan Addison's perspective that he

736
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 2: has the opportunity and look as if he's showing out

737
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,240
Speaker 2: at Pitt, he's going to get drafted wherever he should

738
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 2: be drafted because there's tape on him everybody. Pit is

739
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:59,919
Speaker 2: a big place. But this sort of unofficial free age

740
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,879
Speaker 2: and see tour that's happening with him, I understand why

741
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 2: that rubs pitfans the wrong way and can turn them off.

742
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 2: I just I don't see a way to combat that reality.

743
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 2: Even with a transfer window. We what do we see

744
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,840
Speaker 2: with NBA free agency where there are strict guidelines. I

745
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,240
Speaker 2: think the Bulls just lost a draft pick right because

746
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 2: they tampered and signed a player, as they all do

747
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 2: the moment free agency open. Somehow they're able to negotiate

748
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 2: a complicated contract with all sorts of clauses and bonuses

749
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 2: in eleven seconds.

750
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:35,280
Speaker 1: So it's pretty amazing, right, which you, yeah.

751
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,320
Speaker 2: It's the sport, But like we're what we're doing is

752
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 2: we're saying that things need to be fixed, and at

753
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 2: this point, I almost think we just need to lean

754
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 2: into and accept the chaos, and you're either in or

755
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 2: you're out.

756
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,439
Speaker 1: That is possible. I mean, that's part of the reason

757
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 1: why I have so much to write about. Even candidly,

758
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 1: sometimes I'd like to do something besides nil, Yeah, besides

759
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 1: FCS conference realignment, just because like, these kind of things

760
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 1: keep happening, the challenge, and you're right, maybe the answer

761
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:06,799
Speaker 1: is this is just the way things are. I can't

762
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 1: think of any other league anywhere, at any level that

763
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,360
Speaker 1: does constant free agency all the time, like in European soccer,

764
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 1: which I think is in many ways the closest similarity

765
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 1: to how a lot of college football works. It is

766
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 1: there are contracts, but everybody kind of understands that don't

767
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 1: really mean anything. But if you are a smaller team,

768
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 1: you make a living off transfer fees, and like that

769
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: can be that's what you sell to fans. We're gonna

770
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 1: find the Portuguese fourteen year old before anybody else does.

771
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 1: We're going to get one and a half good years

772
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 1: out of them, and we're gonna go sell them to

773
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 1: Chelsea for six million dollars. And I mean, I'm sure

774
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 1: it's a higher number of that I'm watch I'm bad Brasilient.

775
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, right, And you can't do

776
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 1: that if you are a fan of Fresno State, because

777
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 1: you don't, you don't get anything. Maybe the answer is

778
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: deal with it. Like Fresno State. Your lot in life

779
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 1: is to come here and get and get drunk in

780
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 1: Fresno and maybe win the Mountain West once every couple

781
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 1: of years. I mean, but I get what people are

782
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 1: angry about it. I want what a topic I can

783
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 1: I can talk to people, I can write down what

784
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 1: they say, I can look at the legal analysis here. Guys,

785
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:06,840
Speaker 1: if I could, if I know how to fix the sport,

786
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 1: and I love you both, I wouldn't be doing this, right,

787
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:11,280
Speaker 1: I would be fixing the sport.

788
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,959
Speaker 2: You'd be paid all over Luck money. That's exactly where you.

789
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Yeah, I'd be one of those six

790
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 1: guys that is contractually obligated to be mentioned every time

791
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 1: a job opens up. Right, Like if if a job

792
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 1: opens up and you don't put Condoleeza Rice or or

793
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 1: all over Luck or like the one guy at ESPN,

794
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,399
Speaker 1: like you lose your walk license, right, yeah, I would.

795
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 1: That's what I would be if I knew how to

796
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 1: fix these things.

797
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 2: But it's first of all, I think the NBA is

798
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:38,879
Speaker 2: heading there. I don't know if you've heard the term

799
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 2: pre agency. That's real. That's a real term where players

800
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 2: at All Star weekend are talking like, Okay, here's what

801
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 2: we're gonna do. Where Anthony Davis says I'm just going

802
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 2: to stop playing until you trade me. That's yes, and

803
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:51,959
Speaker 2: so I aged weird.

804
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 1: I heard that in Sunday School growing up. I haven't

805
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 1: heard that in sports yet. Like that's the distent thing. Okay,

806
00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:57,879
Speaker 1: where yeah? Cool?

807
00:40:57,920 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 2: Why Leonard says these are the two players I'm going

808
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 2: it does matter where there's just that or like force

809
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 2: a trade out, like I'm done playing here. I don't

810
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 2: like them, So we are heading in that direction. To me,

811
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 2: it almost seems like the frontier is something novel, like

812
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:16,280
Speaker 2: make somebody want to stay run a program so well,

813
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 2: have such a good culture, and educate your players so

814
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 2: well across a broad spectrum that you're impressing parents and

815
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 2: your parents want you to stay right that you have,

816
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:29,799
Speaker 2: Like there's there's this certain amount of agency that just

817
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 2: seems much more human. Hold on, Dan hold On, Yeah, sorry,

818
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 2: are we not.

819
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:39,760
Speaker 3: Referring to the plan that was insinuated, hinted at by

820
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 3: visionaries like Dabo Sweeney, innovators like Dabo Sweeney, who you know,

821
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,439
Speaker 3: takes a lot of crap for it, admittedly out there,

822
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 3: but has put an emphasis on, Okay, we want we

823
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 3: need to build our own culture here. We're going to

824
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:55,719
Speaker 3: recruit our own roster. We're going to go above and

825
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 3: beyond to try and do that. He too, has suggested

826
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 3: the sport needs to be blown up. What does that

827
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 3: look like? I'm sure he doesn't have a plan. We

828
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 3: don't either, but I'm curious, Matt, like, what does that

829
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 3: look like if we blow this up big bang style

830
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 3: and we try to put it back together in some

831
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 3: way that actually has order and rules and whatnot. Are

832
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,839
Speaker 3: we talking about a European style system where we've got

833
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 3: promotion and relegation. Are we talking about some sort of

834
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 3: minor league system where, look, the schools don't want to

835
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:29,320
Speaker 3: give up the cash cow that is billion dollars worth

836
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 3: of network TV rights where they are now sponsoring a

837
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 3: minor league football program, Like in a perfect world, if

838
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 3: this thing goes boom by the end of the decade, Like,

839
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 3: do we have any sense for what it could look

840
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 3: like or should look like.

841
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 1: Should I don't know if I had the best answer yet,

842
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 1: and I might buy this summer. I'm legitimate like that.

843
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 1: That's a future out, a future story, right.

844
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:53,760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

845
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 1: I can talk a little bit about what it could

846
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 1: because I talked to people about this, and you know what,

847
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 1: Swarbrook has mentioned a couple of times about this idea

848
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 1: of maybe I don't know, fifty institutions decide to license

849
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 1: their IP and their stadium and their colors and their

850
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 1: history to create a U twenty two football team that's

851
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 1: like Oregon Ducks, Inc. Right right, you know Learfield or

852
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: JMI or the Rock Runs that are whoever and have

853
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 1: that just be college football with contracts that's played on colleges,

854
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 1: but it's professional. That is one thing that could really happen.

855
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 1: And I think I think Notre Dame's athletic director is

856
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 1: correct in that there are going to be universities, even

857
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 1: Power five institutions, that are going to look at that

858
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 1: and say, that's not us, that doesn't align with our

859
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:41,879
Speaker 1: ecclesiastical or academic mission. The bishops on our board aren't

860
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,839
Speaker 1: going to be okay with it, and we actually will

861
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 1: do the thing that Jim Delaney threatened to do and

862
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 1: we all made fun of him, which is dropped down

863
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 1: to Division three like that, I think. I don't know

864
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 1: if that's likely, I think, but that's been in kind

865
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 1: of academic reformy circles for a decade and that idea

866
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 1: is getting renewed currency among current leaders.

867
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,759
Speaker 2: Like it's an in or out proposition, Yeah right. It's

868
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 2: a very binary approach to do you want to be

869
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 2: involved in the major business of college football? Do you

870
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:07,920
Speaker 2: want to spend the money that it takes. Do you

871
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:09,319
Speaker 2: want to do what it takes? Do you want to

872
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 2: associate with the program but not have the program be

873
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 2: a part of your school that at least feels honest

874
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:15,839
Speaker 2: on a sea level.

875
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 1: I think I think that would be more honest. Another

876
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 1: thing that I think could legitimately happen is the NCUBA

877
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 1: as we know it really does get blown up and

878
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,880
Speaker 1: a lot of their duties are then replaced with individual

879
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 1: sport federations. So instead of having a college NCUBA college

880
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 1: wrestling Championship, USA Wrestling takes control of that and says,

881
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: all right, we're going to have a U twenty two

882
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: championship and that's going to be operated out of colleges,

883
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 1: and then we're going to operate, you know that have

884
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 1: the Olympic Trials, We're going to do these other things.

885
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 1: And USA Wrestling sets eligibility, and we have a lot

886
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,720
Speaker 1: of these organizations for other things. Maybe we fold men's

887
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 1: college basketball into USA Basketball, and that's just how a

888
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 1: lot of other sports do it. One thing that I

889
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 1: think is unlikely but could honestly happen, is have like

890
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 1: a literal federal government Minister of Sport and somebody that

891
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 1: takes in some of the Olympic trial stuff and college

892
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 1: sports and folds it into the state.

893
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:09,360
Speaker 3: You know.

894
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:12,279
Speaker 1: I think it was last week and Sportico you saw

895
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 1: a suggestion from a large defense contractor saying maybe the

896
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 1: military should just offer full scholarships to every Olympic sport

897
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:22,879
Speaker 1: athlete in exchange for joining the reserves for a couple

898
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:24,799
Speaker 1: of months afterwards. I know, I know, like a lot

899
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 1: of people on Twitter freaked out about that. Sure, that's

900
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 1: how they do it in Germany, Like that's that's how

901
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:32,799
Speaker 1: other developed countries, you know, do these kind of things.

902
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:36,319
Speaker 1: So I don't want to dismiss that completely out of hand.

903
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 1: I do think the status quo where we have a

904
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:43,760
Speaker 1: centralized organization in Indianapolis clinging to amateurism plus and trying

905
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 1: to bring three hundred and sixty institutions together to do that.

906
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 1: I don't think that's likely to survive the next five years.

907
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:54,239
Speaker 3: What also would prevent I know he's controversial, but let's

908
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:56,920
Speaker 3: use Elon Musk. Somebody with a lot of money.

909
00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 2: Spends it so wisely.

910
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, from going out to every high school in America

911
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 3: and saying I will take all of your best college

912
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:07,759
Speaker 3: football athletes. We're gonna build a league. We'll pay you.

913
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:09,319
Speaker 3: You don't need to go to college. You don't need

914
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:11,279
Speaker 3: to do any of this, but you can still go

915
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 3: to the NFL after a couple of years. Right, that's

916
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 3: still the rule, per my understanding, Like, is that not

917
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 3: also a possibility that somebody who is ever so inclined

918
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 3: could just set up a separate infrastructure altogether separate from college.

919
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 1: Structurally, there's nothing stopping. That's what's stopping. And I think

920
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 1: for football is just that it costs so much money.

921
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 2: Yep.

922
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 1: And we've seen so many startup football leagues start up

923
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 1: and fail. And I don't want to want to be

924
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 1: a Debbie downer, but I think anybody playing in the

925
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 1: spring right now is unlikely to still be there in

926
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 1: two years, no matter how charming and handsome the Rock

927
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,719
Speaker 1: is like that. That's just the economy is a scale

928
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 1: of the sport. We're seeing this in basketball right. This

929
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: is what Overtime Lead is trying to do. And that's

930
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 1: a very well capitalized group that has a teeny tiny

931
00:46:57,160 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 1: market share of that world. And the G League has

932
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 1: been trying to do this, and they're prepped up by

933
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 1: the NBA and there They've been doing this for what

934
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 1: a decade, and it's only just now I think starting

935
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 1: to really realistically get it's it's it's baby Lakes been

936
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:12,239
Speaker 1: taking baby steps here. So I think for football, you

937
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 1: would you would honestly need somebody with Elon money. And

938
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 1: nobody else has Elon money but Elon and and and

939
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 1: there's only a handful of people that have that much

940
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 1: cash and be willing to say like, not only am

941
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 1: I going to try to do this, I'm gonna be

942
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:24,799
Speaker 1: cool losing money for twenty I'm going.

943
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 2: To burn it.

944
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:27,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to just set it on fire. To

945
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:31,720
Speaker 1: get people to suddenly care about the Omaha Firehawks or whatever.

946
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:33,400
Speaker 1: You know, we have to put a team in Birmingham

947
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,319
Speaker 1: and Memphis and every other d list football city to

948
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 1: start something like this up. People don't have that kind

949
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 1: of money, but sure you you could do it. I mean,

950
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:44,800
Speaker 1: the real, honest, the real risk would be the NFL

951
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:47,239
Speaker 1: deciding to do it right and and and using some

952
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 1: of that money, because I think people forget this. Up

953
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 1: until I want to say, the late sixties or seventies,

954
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 1: the NFL had like farm system teams. There was like

955
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 1: the Eastern League where like the Patriots or the Bears

956
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:01,399
Speaker 1: might call people up and then they decided they didn't

957
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 1: want to spend the money on it anymore. Like that

958
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 1: will be more likely to me, I think than Elon.

959
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:06,800
Speaker 1: But of course the right now the NFL is like,

960
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 1: we've got a pretty good gig because right now to

961
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:10,320
Speaker 1: State Alabama have to spend all that money.

962
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:13,880
Speaker 3: The other thing too is obviously Ohio State Alabama have

963
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:16,399
Speaker 3: built in fan bases. You're not starting from scratch there,

964
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 3: whereas if you throw the Elon money at it, you're

965
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 3: kind of back to square one with respect to like USFL, XFL,

966
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 3: these other startup leagues that haven't really gotten much traction.

967
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:28,720
Speaker 3: The other thing that I wanted to mention here quickly

968
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 3: We've talked a lot about all in or all out

969
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 3: as it relates to players being effectively employees, being able

970
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:38,279
Speaker 3: to earn money, get contracts, things of that.

971
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:38,600
Speaker 2: Ilk.

972
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:42,360
Speaker 3: What's getting awfully big in the window is the NCUBA

973
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 3: video game. And I wonder, from your perspective, Matt, if

974
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:49,360
Speaker 3: the NCUBA video game is not some sort of conduit

975
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 3: to get us from A to B, because presumably everybody

976
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:56,279
Speaker 3: in that game stands to make some cut from it.

977
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:57,840
Speaker 1: What have you heard?

978
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 3: What are people saying behind the scenes about how the

979
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 3: video game, just as it did with NIL, could perhaps

980
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 3: usher in the next chapter of wherever we stand here

981
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:08,799
Speaker 3: with amateurism.

982
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 1: That's a great question, Tay. Here here's what I know. Yeah,

983
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:14,279
Speaker 1: here's what I Here's what I know about the game

984
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 1: right now. I know that last year when EA Sports

985
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 1: and CLC, that the major licensing agency that works with

986
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 1: most of these institutions, reached out to all the schools

987
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 1: and asked for the participation of the game. What they

988
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:29,319
Speaker 1: told them was, Hey, what EA wants to do is

989
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 1: use current athletes in this game. They want to cut

990
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:34,959
Speaker 1: them a check and put them in and we are

991
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 1: that is our goal. We are working towards a group

992
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 1: licensing solution. In the event that we are unable to

993
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 1: do that, we are going to still make the game.

994
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:44,759
Speaker 1: We're going to randomize the players, and we are not

995
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 1: going to include any team builder modes, and we're not

996
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:49,759
Speaker 1: going to let users edit the rosters. So we will

997
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 1: be a much more restrictive video game than you have before,

998
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 1: because otherwise, as we all know, somebody in Operation Sports

999
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:56,480
Speaker 1: is going to get get the right rosters ready in

1000
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:57,319
Speaker 1: like two hours, and.

1001
00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 3: We all still do it to this day.

1002
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 1: Sure, I I literally bought a three sixty during the pandemic.

1003
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 1: Like this was for business reasons, It was because I

1004
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 1: wanted to keep playing. Right What I can tell you

1005
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 1: then is like right now, EA Sports expects every FBS

1006
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 1: team to be in the game, including the new ones.

1007
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 1: The James Madison and Jacksonville State Sam Houston have indicated

1008
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:20,320
Speaker 1: they want to participate. They're going to have their stadiums

1009
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 1: in the game. But the hold up is with that

1010
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 1: group licensing piece. And there actually are a couple of

1011
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 1: companies that are working in this world right now, so

1012
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 1: some of you guys may have heard of them. There

1013
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:32,319
Speaker 1: was the brand Our group, which has worked with a

1014
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 1: bunch of schools to set up group licensing for jersey sales.

1015
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 1: So if you are at Michigan or a North Carolina

1016
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 1: or Ahiose State fan, now you really can buy jersey

1017
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:43,759
Speaker 1: with the player's name on it, and the player gets

1018
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 1: a check. It would surprise fans to learn that very

1019
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:51,200
Speaker 1: few athletes are getting checks with commas in them over

1020
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 1: jersey sales. It's not a very developed marketplace, but that's happening.

1021
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 1: What people have told me in this industry, both at

1022
00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:59,840
Speaker 1: the licensing companies there's two of them and with EA,

1023
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 1: is that once a licensing company has acquired a critical

1024
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 1: mass of athletes under their purview, that YEA will kind

1025
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:08,719
Speaker 1: of check to that company and say like, all right,

1026
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 1: you're going to be the licensing agent for us. Let's

1027
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 1: figure then people will opt into that deal and we'll

1028
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 1: cut them a check for you know, low four figures

1029
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:20,400
Speaker 1: I think for the participation. And we're close to that happening,

1030
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 1: like I expect that to happen in July sometime in

1031
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:27,560
Speaker 1: the next sixty days. There are enough schools are working

1032
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:29,360
Speaker 1: with US, and then it's going to take six to

1033
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: nine months for more athletes to kind of opt in

1034
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:33,760
Speaker 1: and be a part of it, But it would surprise

1035
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 1: me if we have this video game next summer that

1036
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:39,279
Speaker 1: doesn't include likenesses of the specific athletes in it.

1037
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:41,960
Speaker 3: And is that the expectation, Matt, that we're going to

1038
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:42,880
Speaker 3: see this next summer.

1039
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:46,760
Speaker 1: Yes, the proposal that was sent out, and I believe, actually,

1040
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 1: I think the CLC has confirmed this that the targeted

1041
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:51,800
Speaker 1: date was I think July of twenty twenty three. Wow.

1042
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:53,839
Speaker 1: And I can tell you, like the reason it took

1043
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 1: so long, because I know a lot of people are like,

1044
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:57,360
Speaker 1: just just re skim twenty fourteen and give it to

1045
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 1: us now, baby, Like one, all the design team's gone.

1046
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 1: It's been two video game consoles since the last game

1047
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 1: was so the entire infrastructure architecture has to get blown up.

1048
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:09,880
Speaker 1: One thing that I didn't realize until I started reporting this,

1049
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:13,360
Speaker 1: it's apparently really difficult to render a college football stadium.

1050
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 1: It takes months and thousands of photographs and a lot

1051
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 1: of computing time. And like they told me, we literally

1052
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:22,239
Speaker 1: couldn't get that done in a year, even if the

1053
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 1: game was ready, And so that process has taken a while.

1054
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:28,439
Speaker 1: The other thing is kind of depressing is it's still

1055
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 1: hard to get a PlayStation five it's like we've had

1056
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 1: so many chip shortages and so many supply shortages. I

1057
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 1: don't think this game is actually going to be on

1058
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:40,360
Speaker 1: the previous generation of systems, and so there's also an

1059
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:42,239
Speaker 1: incentive to wait a little bit so more people can

1060
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:45,040
Speaker 1: actually get their hands on this, which wouldn't have been

1061
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:47,000
Speaker 1: the case before. But yeah, I would. I would look

1062
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 1: for it next summer, and I am hoping to be

1063
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:52,279
Speaker 1: able to share more information about what I know about

1064
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:54,480
Speaker 1: the game soon. There's a couple other things that I've

1065
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:56,400
Speaker 1: been asked to keep embargoed for a little bit, and

1066
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 1: I don't want to get anybody in trouble, like that's

1067
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 1: not earth chattering. But more information I think, either through

1068
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 1: me or other reporters will start to come out later

1069
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 1: this summer.

1070
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:10,320
Speaker 2: My final question is this, It's an impossible one to answer,

1071
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:12,319
Speaker 2: and so I like that tie, and I have you

1072
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 2: on every so often, not to yell at you, but

1073
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:19,880
Speaker 2: to yell within you in your range, and you're just

1074
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:21,480
Speaker 2: always like I hear you. That sounds right.

1075
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:25,080
Speaker 1: This is you would be shocked at how much of

1076
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:27,319
Speaker 1: my job this has become, because it's the same thing like,

1077
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:28,880
Speaker 1: all right, I'm just going to smile and listen and

1078
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:31,440
Speaker 1: let you athletic director at to Power five school just

1079
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:33,719
Speaker 1: scream for a little bit, like I'm a reporter and

1080
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:37,319
Speaker 1: a therapist in that way, So please go on.

1081
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:40,600
Speaker 2: The interesting thing just popped into my brain with athletic

1082
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:43,800
Speaker 2: directors is on one hand, you think, oh man, a collective,

1083
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:46,240
Speaker 2: that's so cool that like, we don't have to deal

1084
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:50,440
Speaker 2: with certain financial realities of attracting recruits. But on the

1085
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:53,799
Speaker 2: other hand, a major part of an athletic director and

1086
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:58,240
Speaker 2: administrator's jobs is raising money. And if you're a booster

1087
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:00,800
Speaker 2: and say I got three million dollars and I normally

1088
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:03,239
Speaker 2: would donate to building a new indoor facility, but I'm

1089
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:06,400
Speaker 2: just giving it to a collective, is there like weird

1090
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:09,280
Speaker 2: tension now between collectives and athletic departments.

1091
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 1: It's not weird, it's explicit.

1092
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:11,720
Speaker 2: Okay.

1093
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:16,080
Speaker 1: I'm telling you a lot of these ads hate the

1094
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:18,759
Speaker 1: people that are running the collectives. Sure, and I'll tell

1095
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:20,680
Speaker 1: you what I want. What you just described is exactly

1096
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:23,360
Speaker 1: a real thing, okay. And I think a smart development

1097
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 1: person would say you're giving them money for something different.

1098
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 1: The three million dollars for a quarterback back on my

1099
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 1: transfer in nine months you put your name on a building,

1100
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:32,960
Speaker 1: it's there forever right, cut me to check. Here's the

1101
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 1: other thing, though, and I think we've seen this at

1102
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:36,880
Speaker 1: places like Texas, and that's.

1103
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:39,480
Speaker 2: By the way, that's the selling hope, the collective. Yeah,

1104
00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:42,479
Speaker 2: that's where the hope comes in the sport. Yeah yeah, Well.

1105
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 1: Well here's the issue. If you are a school that

1106
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:48,080
Speaker 1: needs to spend aggressively to be competitive in a bunch

1107
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:50,799
Speaker 1: of different sports, and suddenly you have this group that's

1108
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:55,759
Speaker 1: consolidated your fifteen biggest boosters, that booster group. They're the

1109
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:58,880
Speaker 1: athletic director now, like because if that booster group has

1110
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 1: to give me that money, turns off the spigot until

1111
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:03,320
Speaker 1: you fire a coach. The athletic director doesn't get to

1112
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:05,719
Speaker 1: make that call anymore. Now it's the boosters or they

1113
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:08,040
Speaker 1: might fire the AD or change anything.

1114
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 2: Which has sort of been by the way. Boosters have

1115
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 2: had that power and that threat before, but now it's

1116
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:14,360
Speaker 2: much more explicit.

1117
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 1: And now it's much more explicit, it's more institutionalized. And

1118
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 1: then there's the challenge, right, because if you're the AD

1119
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 1: at Auburn, your job one has some level of public

1120
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:24,799
Speaker 1: taxpayer accountability. It's your job to make multiple sports function.

1121
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:27,279
Speaker 1: It's your job defending with university. And if you are

1122
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:29,920
Speaker 1: a guy that made a kajillion dollar selling pressurized lumber,

1123
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:32,600
Speaker 1: you don't care about any of those things. You just

1124
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 1: care about recruits. And this also is an issue for coaches.

1125
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:37,840
Speaker 1: There are coaches that don't like these guys either, because

1126
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:40,680
Speaker 1: now you're basically creating a shadow general manager. What if

1127
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:42,800
Speaker 1: you don't want to get somebody, but the booster wants

1128
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:45,120
Speaker 1: to get the make the rivals class go up and

1129
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:47,480
Speaker 1: impress people at the country club, so they're going to

1130
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:50,279
Speaker 1: go throw money at guys you don't even want's coach,

1131
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:51,719
Speaker 1: you don't really want that. And then they're saying that

1132
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:53,279
Speaker 1: I want to commit. Or what if a guy wants

1133
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:55,440
Speaker 1: to transfer because he's not going to play, but he's

1134
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:57,400
Speaker 1: signed a three year contract with the collective and now

1135
00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:00,120
Speaker 1: he's stuck here. That sucks with the coach too. Lot

1136
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 1: of those tensions aren't just about money and philosophy. It's

1137
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 1: literally about control, right, who are you empowering and to

1138
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 1: run things? And I'll just say, like in my experience,

1139
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 1: when you look at the programs that have so many

1140
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 1: resources and still suck or have not been able to

1141
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:20,759
Speaker 1: achieve the way they wanted to. Yeah, this is almost

1142
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:23,840
Speaker 1: always the reason. Nick Saban's true genius isn't just on

1143
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:26,319
Speaker 1: a chalkboard. It's said he's been able to unify this

1144
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 1: entire army of sharks in Alabama to go the exact

1145
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:33,760
Speaker 1: same way. And that hasn't happened at Texas or Tennessee

1146
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:37,520
Speaker 1: or Auburn or usc until like maybe like two weeks ago.

1147
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:38,560
Speaker 1: In a long time.

1148
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:41,520
Speaker 2: The funny thing is your language, and this is not

1149
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:45,880
Speaker 2: your intention. Your language is not unlike how people talk

1150
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:51,920
Speaker 2: about dictators, how they are able to unify various factions

1151
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 2: from warring within the country. And it's like you'll hear

1152
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 2: things like these are not my words, to be clear,

1153
00:56:57,280 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 2: but you'll hear people say things not to say good

1154
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:02,200
Speaker 2: things about Mussolini or not to say good things of

1155
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:05,320
Speaker 2: Saddam Hussein. But everybody fell in line.

1156
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:09,000
Speaker 1: Dude, I have so crazy, but it's true, literally that

1157
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:11,440
Speaker 1: exact thing. On an extra point, so I said, like,

1158
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:13,560
Speaker 1: these guys are like Joseph Tito, like the old the

1159
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:18,160
Speaker 1: former dictator of Yugoslavia bringing together these warring like ethnic groups,

1160
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 1: and the whole thing kind of film part after he left,

1161
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 1: and it's like am I saying that Nick Saban needs

1162
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 1: to be like an eighties dictator. No, am I saying

1163
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:28,880
Speaker 1: that there are similarities, yes, like, and that that is

1164
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:30,080
Speaker 1: that is true.

1165
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:33,800
Speaker 2: It's so here's here's my actual final question before talking

1166
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:37,600
Speaker 2: about like sleep pods no longer happening because boosters are

1167
00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:43,520
Speaker 2: donating all their money to a collective. As a legendary procrastinator,

1168
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:48,280
Speaker 2: I feel especially qualified to weigh in here. The easiest

1169
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:52,760
Speaker 2: thing to do here is nothing right. The easiest thing

1170
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 2: to do with all of everybody's complaints is say it'll

1171
00:57:57,040 --> 00:58:01,120
Speaker 2: work itself out, the market will correct itself, etc. Etc.

1172
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:06,480
Speaker 2: That seems like the likeliest thing to happen because anybody's

1173
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:10,440
Speaker 2: ideas are not going to resonate with everybody. So the

1174
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:12,920
Speaker 2: hardest thing to do here here will And this is

1175
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 2: the same kind of like dictatorial language that we're just

1176
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:17,400
Speaker 2: talking about. The hardest thing to do here is to

1177
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:19,680
Speaker 2: get everybody on the same page. And so if the

1178
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:21,480
Speaker 2: SEC commissioner is not on the same page as the

1179
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 2: Big ten commissioner, is not on the same page as

1180
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:26,920
Speaker 2: the you know, Mountain West commissioner, how does any effective

1181
00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 2: change actually happen in the next five, ten, fifteen, years

1182
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:37,640
Speaker 2: without some sort of specific event that awakens everybody in

1183
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:38,120
Speaker 2: some way.

1184
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:42,880
Speaker 1: You know, well, that's not an impossible question. And generally

1185
00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:45,800
Speaker 1: with the NCAA, it's been an external event that is

1186
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 1: forced change, whether that's been about cost of attendance, scholarship reform.

1187
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's a recession or COVID or the law forcing

1188
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:57,880
Speaker 1: people to change. You're right, and there are definitely people

1189
00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:00,320
Speaker 1: who say, let's let the market work itself out. And like,

1190
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:02,400
Speaker 1: from my perspective, and maybe this is just because I'm

1191
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:06,000
Speaker 1: just a nerdy do gooder, but my concern when we

1192
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:07,760
Speaker 1: hear that is like whenever there's we hear the words

1193
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:11,640
Speaker 1: market correction in this context, that means somebody had to

1194
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:14,960
Speaker 1: be corrected, and that generally means someone lost money or

1195
00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:18,520
Speaker 1: or was hurt, and that created a change here in

1196
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:21,240
Speaker 1: the marketplace that people who are most likely to be

1197
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:24,360
Speaker 1: disadvantaged when there's a market correction are going to be athletes.

1198
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:24,680
Speaker 2: Yep.

1199
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 1: It's not going to be boosters, and it's probably not

1200
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:28,520
Speaker 1: going to be schools. And that also may take a

1201
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:32,400
Speaker 1: long time because this isn't the same kind of marketplace

1202
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 1: that you learned about in econ one to ten, where

1203
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:37,200
Speaker 1: buyers and sellers have equal access to information and people

1204
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:41,040
Speaker 1: make rational decisions. There's nothing rational about SEC boosters, Guys,

1205
00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:44,360
Speaker 1: there's nothing rational about the people who have lifetime subscriptions

1206
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:47,480
Speaker 1: on Bucknuts. And I say this as a son of Columbus, like,

1207
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:49,720
Speaker 1: that's not what they're doing with their money here, right,

1208
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:52,640
Speaker 1: So that might take a long time, and that might

1209
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:54,680
Speaker 1: be easiest, but then people are going to get hurt

1210
00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 1: in that way.

1211
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 2: That was say, yeah, yeah, well, I was gonna say,

1212
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:00,800
Speaker 2: just in terms of like that single event, it does

1213
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:03,400
Speaker 2: seem like it's only one thing, and that's TV ratings

1214
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:07,960
Speaker 2: nose diving. Like in order to affect change, you got

1215
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:10,000
Speaker 2: to find where the money is and where it's coming from.

1216
01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:13,240
Speaker 2: And then having CBS or ESPN or Fox saying, you know,

1217
01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:16,920
Speaker 2: yesterday's offer is not today's offer, and being able to

1218
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:22,480
Speaker 2: correlate it specifically to fan apathy and disinterest and disapproval

1219
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:25,080
Speaker 2: with how the sport has evolved.

1220
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 1: And even then, even then, even then, that takes a

1221
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:30,360
Speaker 1: long time. And then we're operating on the assumption that

1222
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:33,240
Speaker 1: even that, like has major League Baseball reformed itself in

1223
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:37,320
Speaker 1: the face of declining fan interest and other economic headwinds.

1224
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 3: They made the bases bigger.

1225
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:40,680
Speaker 1: They made them. Okay, they made the bases bigger, but

1226
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:43,960
Speaker 1: you can see like that that wasn't a turnkey fix.

1227
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:46,840
Speaker 1: Hockey wasn't able to make some of those turnkey fixes.

1228
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:49,880
Speaker 1: And these are you know, medium to long term television contracts.

1229
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 1: We've seen football attendance in decline for a decade, and

1230
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:56,280
Speaker 1: the best idea most people in power seem to be

1231
01:00:56,400 --> 01:00:59,800
Speaker 1: is fix the Wi Fi. Not maybe don't schedule games

1232
01:00:59,840 --> 01:01:03,240
Speaker 1: to twenty sixty or don't charge three hundred dollars for

1233
01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:05,200
Speaker 1: a hot dog or any of these. But you know,

1234
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:08,920
Speaker 1: all this, I think just assumption that things work itself

1235
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:12,880
Speaker 1: out assumes that people are able to quickly make decisions

1236
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:14,840
Speaker 1: based on that data, right, And I don't want to

1237
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:17,080
Speaker 1: be like a college sports nihilist, but like, I don't

1238
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:19,680
Speaker 1: think that's the reality in the lifetimes that we're talking

1239
01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:20,120
Speaker 1: about here.

1240
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:24,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's fair, all right again, his boy baby, Yeah,

1241
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:25,440
Speaker 3: gome on goat ducks.

1242
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:26,040
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1243
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:29,000
Speaker 3: We could do like a part eight series on this stuff,

1244
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:31,520
Speaker 3: for sure. We'll have you back sometime soon, Matt Brown.

1245
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:35,680
Speaker 3: Matt Brown runs Extra Points with Matt Brown. Talk to

1246
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:38,680
Speaker 3: us very quickly, Matt Brown about how people can find

1247
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:42,240
Speaker 3: you and what you bring to the college football universe.

1248
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:44,720
Speaker 1: You bet you can find me on Twitter at Matt

1249
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:47,680
Speaker 1: Brown ep. I promise not everything I do is an

1250
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:51,080
Speaker 1: existential bummer. Like my entire beat is to try and

1251
01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:53,280
Speaker 1: dig into the stuff that determines who's going to be

1252
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:56,600
Speaker 1: good on Saturdays. So, whether that's SCS conference realignment, whether

1253
01:01:56,640 --> 01:02:00,680
Speaker 1: that's explaining how television right, media rights contracts, how your

1254
01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:03,440
Speaker 1: alma mater gets money, how they spend money, how they

1255
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:05,440
Speaker 1: decide what sports to sponsor, and how they're able to

1256
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:07,800
Speaker 1: be successful. These are the kind of things I dig

1257
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:10,440
Speaker 1: into so everybody else can go to the press conference

1258
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 1: and talk about who's going to play quarterback next week.

1259
01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:14,640
Speaker 1: I try to get into the nerd stuff so to

1260
01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:18,280
Speaker 1: free everything else up there. Your athletic director probably reads it,

1261
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:20,840
Speaker 1: your conference commissioner probably reads it. Other people in this

1262
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:24,440
Speaker 1: world do, and maybe something that you would find interesting

1263
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:27,960
Speaker 1: as well. You can find it at extra POINTSMB dot com.

1264
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:32,240
Speaker 3: Extra points MB dot com. Keep doing the hard work,

1265
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:35,880
Speaker 3: keep helping idiots like Dan and I be smarter when

1266
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:38,320
Speaker 3: we talk to other folks about it. We as always

1267
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:39,320
Speaker 3: appreciate your time here.

1268
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:42,480
Speaker 1: This is great, fellas anytime. It's always my pleasure.

1269
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:43,760
Speaker 3: All righty Dan, there you go.

1270
01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:46,440
Speaker 2: Whoa, yeah, yeah yeah.

1271
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 3: Matt Brown always extremely well read, always the smartest guy

1272
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:55,080
Speaker 3: in the room as it relates to these really complex

1273
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:59,280
Speaker 3: issues that I think many of us, I'll just include

1274
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:03,760
Speaker 3: myself here we do not have the benefit of living

1275
01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:09,160
Speaker 3: in that world, understanding the nuances, the complexities, and really

1276
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:11,880
Speaker 3: seeing how all of these things kind of fit together.

1277
01:03:11,960 --> 01:03:15,600
Speaker 3: We see a passing headline on Twitter, we read an

1278
01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:18,439
Speaker 3: article from Ross Dellinger, which again I promise to link

1279
01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:21,080
Speaker 3: up in the show notes here. And it's tough to

1280
01:03:21,160 --> 01:03:24,320
Speaker 3: make heads or tails of how all of this comes

1281
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:27,120
Speaker 3: together within the sport. To be fair, I'm not sure

1282
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:30,000
Speaker 3: Matt knows any more than anybody else, but he at

1283
01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:32,480
Speaker 3: least can provide context to an extent that you or

1284
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:35,040
Speaker 3: I can't. He knows a lot more of the context.

1285
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:37,880
Speaker 3: He knows a lot more of the inner workings and

1286
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:40,400
Speaker 3: the pulleys and levers that are happening or trying to

1287
01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:42,880
Speaker 3: be pulled and whatever, and in all sorts of different

1288
01:03:42,920 --> 01:03:45,960
Speaker 3: directions behind the scenes. So he's an invaluable resource and

1289
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:49,200
Speaker 3: a terrific guest because he could be very dry. We

1290
01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:51,040
Speaker 3: have spoken to people on and off the show, who

1291
01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:53,200
Speaker 3: are very dry about the subject matter, but Matt happens

1292
01:03:53,240 --> 01:03:57,440
Speaker 3: to be a talented broadcaster and guest at the same time. No,

1293
01:03:57,640 --> 01:04:00,360
Speaker 3: my mind, obviously, if you listen to the Totality interview,

1294
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:02,760
Speaker 3: my mind goes to a number of very strange places

1295
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:08,280
Speaker 3: in thinking about this subject live. But man, it so

1296
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:12,480
Speaker 3: much makes so little sense that I'm almost coming around

1297
01:04:12,520 --> 01:04:16,480
Speaker 3: to that's the appeal. The appeal is that this is

1298
01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:20,160
Speaker 3: the most nonsensical sport and we're always trying to fix

1299
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:25,560
Speaker 3: something that is unfixable, that should never be fixed, and

1300
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:29,600
Speaker 3: there's always going to be something that is going to

1301
01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:33,600
Speaker 3: destroy the sport, and it doesn't because I think fundamentally

1302
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:38,400
Speaker 3: people understand that college football stands alone in its lack

1303
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:42,200
Speaker 3: of sense. It's sim City, It's sim City twenty twenty two.

1304
01:04:42,600 --> 01:04:46,440
Speaker 3: There's always the Tornado or the god Zilatron or god

1305
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:49,240
Speaker 3: Zilatron whatever. No, that's cool, that's going to stop buy

1306
01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:50,960
Speaker 3: and destroy your archology.

1307
01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:56,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. Do you, by the way, do you play wordle

1308
01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:58,680
Speaker 2: Is that a thing that you participate in? Yeah? Every day?

1309
01:04:59,160 --> 01:05:02,280
Speaker 2: Just because you said a do when we started, and

1310
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:05,040
Speaker 2: that's a five letter word, that's a very popular opening word.

1311
01:05:06,120 --> 01:05:08,760
Speaker 2: Do you have an opening word or set of opening

1312
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:10,960
Speaker 2: words for your word. And I know there's like a

1313
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:13,000
Speaker 2: college football word, and I don't do any of the

1314
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:15,800
Speaker 2: offshoot wordles. I'm just a purest No, I am as well.

1315
01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:22,200
Speaker 3: I go with tears. Tears RS pretty good because I

1316
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:23,840
Speaker 3: want to get the T, I want to get the E.

1317
01:05:25,160 --> 01:05:26,680
Speaker 3: I want to get the R and the S in there.

1318
01:05:26,920 --> 01:05:28,240
Speaker 3: The problem that I have, though is.

1319
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:30,400
Speaker 2: Actually figured when you said the word, they're two up

1320
01:05:30,480 --> 01:05:32,720
Speaker 2: those letters, correct, that's correct assumption.

1321
01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:35,720
Speaker 3: The problem that I have actually is with my second word,

1322
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:38,760
Speaker 3: and what's the strategy around that? Because if you get

1323
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:43,080
Speaker 3: three letters in your opening word, you're inclined to keep

1324
01:05:43,160 --> 01:05:46,800
Speaker 3: guessing to get it in two tries. Oftentimes you don't,

1325
01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:49,160
Speaker 3: or oftentimes you get two of the three letters in

1326
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:52,160
Speaker 3: the right spot, they turn green and then you keep guessing.

1327
01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:55,240
Speaker 3: Before you know it, you're on tries six. So where

1328
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:59,440
Speaker 3: I've tried to perhaps tweak my own algorithm here is

1329
01:05:59,520 --> 01:06:03,160
Speaker 3: figure out what do I do in word two to

1330
01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:05,840
Speaker 3: put myself in the optimal position to get total three.

1331
01:06:06,640 --> 01:06:08,800
Speaker 2: It's you know what it is, it's success right, it's

1332
01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:11,480
Speaker 2: sp plus. How do you stay ahead of the chains? Right?

1333
01:06:11,560 --> 01:06:12,920
Speaker 3: I believe that is correct assumption.

1334
01:06:13,040 --> 01:06:19,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, this wordle is vocabulary advanced grammar metrics. That's all

1335
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:22,520
Speaker 2: it is. It's who's efficient as staying ahead of the chains,

1336
01:06:23,080 --> 01:06:26,840
Speaker 2: who has that strategy. I'll start with It's funny. I

1337
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:30,160
Speaker 2: consider myself to be of average intellect, but I'm pretty

1338
01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:31,720
Speaker 2: good with words. And I was on a game show

1339
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:34,440
Speaker 2: called Lingo that was wordle, so like, I have just

1340
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:38,160
Speaker 2: the tinsiest not a word background in this kind of thing,

1341
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:41,800
Speaker 2: and I will let's say I start with the word

1342
01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:45,720
Speaker 2: crane or stern. Is that your word is your word?

1343
01:06:45,760 --> 01:06:48,400
Speaker 2: Now it's a rotation. If if I'm feeling heavy vowel

1344
01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:51,400
Speaker 2: in a morning, I'll go with a DO or audio.

1345
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:53,280
Speaker 2: By the way, stay on brand tie. You get the

1346
01:06:53,400 --> 01:06:56,400
Speaker 2: AU and I and O just d's not incredible. But

1347
01:06:57,600 --> 01:06:59,920
Speaker 2: I'm feeling if it's a Tuesday that I'm feeling vowels,

1348
01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:03,040
Speaker 2: I'll go there. Crane is pretty consistent. That gets you know,

1349
01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:06,240
Speaker 2: the R in the end, the ay whatever. But the

1350
01:07:06,560 --> 01:07:08,920
Speaker 2: second word thing is very real, not when you have

1351
01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:12,160
Speaker 2: three letters. If I put in crane and they're like, hey,

1352
01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:15,200
Speaker 2: there's an E in this word and that's all you know,

1353
01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:20,560
Speaker 2: my first reaction will be, where do I even start, yeah,

1354
01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:24,480
Speaker 2: how do what five letter word has an E? And

1355
01:07:24,720 --> 01:07:27,480
Speaker 2: you get to feel very dumb right away, which is

1356
01:07:27,600 --> 01:07:28,480
Speaker 2: pretty regular.

1357
01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:29,880
Speaker 3: For what I've been doing with friends. And actually you

1358
01:07:30,040 --> 01:07:33,160
Speaker 3: gave me this idea. You mentioned that some folks are

1359
01:07:33,160 --> 01:07:36,520
Speaker 3: treating it like golf with a par four. And so

1360
01:07:36,680 --> 01:07:40,720
Speaker 3: now every morning on a text thread with friends, I

1361
01:07:40,840 --> 01:07:42,960
Speaker 3: have to send in my score. We keep track of

1362
01:07:43,080 --> 01:07:46,040
Speaker 3: eighteen whole rounds. We're on round number three now. We've

1363
01:07:46,080 --> 01:07:48,280
Speaker 3: been doing this for you know, whatever the math is,

1364
01:07:48,320 --> 01:07:53,040
Speaker 3: however many days and there is a real expectation that

1365
01:07:54,240 --> 01:07:56,280
Speaker 3: if I get a five or above, this is the

1366
01:07:56,360 --> 01:07:57,920
Speaker 3: end of the world. I'm going to lose shots.

1367
01:07:58,680 --> 01:08:01,240
Speaker 2: One of my favorite things with wordle, which I just

1368
01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:06,520
Speaker 2: adore wordle. I saw a clip of a podcast Bert Kreischer, comedian,

1369
01:08:07,160 --> 01:08:11,040
Speaker 2: was talking about a strategy somebody told him with wordle.

1370
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:15,480
Speaker 2: And the strategy is you start with three words, and

1371
01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:17,840
Speaker 2: you don't pay attention to what is or is not

1372
01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:22,080
Speaker 2: in those words. But the three words cover basically every

1373
01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:27,200
Speaker 2: potential common letter. And so he starts with audio, crest

1374
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:30,760
Speaker 2: and nymph, and by your fourth guest, no matter what's

1375
01:08:30,800 --> 01:08:33,720
Speaker 2: in that first word, that audio word, you will have

1376
01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:37,160
Speaker 2: four of the five basically every single time by your

1377
01:08:37,160 --> 01:08:42,280
Speaker 2: fourth guest, right Audio Crest and nim Nymph Nymph. And

1378
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:44,519
Speaker 2: I saw that there was a think piece or there

1379
01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:48,479
Speaker 2: was some sort of like response video saying is this ethical?

1380
01:08:49,360 --> 01:08:49,600
Speaker 1: Is this?

1381
01:08:49,840 --> 01:08:53,800
Speaker 2: Does this land within the spirit with which wordle was

1382
01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:57,080
Speaker 2: originally intended? And I love that we now have think

1383
01:08:57,160 --> 01:09:00,919
Speaker 2: pieces on wordle something that's just so in and beautiful.

1384
01:09:01,560 --> 01:09:01,800
Speaker 1: Wow.

1385
01:09:02,680 --> 01:09:07,479
Speaker 2: Yeah? Is that an ethical strategy to blindly shoot letters

1386
01:09:08,240 --> 01:09:11,360
Speaker 2: for three of your first guesses? I'm gonna start doing that.

1387
01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:15,599
Speaker 2: I say it's not, but I understand why somebody would

1388
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:18,439
Speaker 2: do that. You just because it takes the sort of

1389
01:09:18,560 --> 01:09:21,559
Speaker 2: strategy out of it. It takes the like it takes

1390
01:09:21,600 --> 01:09:23,160
Speaker 2: your brain out of it, and it's supposed to be

1391
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:29,160
Speaker 2: a brain teaser of you. You could still fumble, right,

1392
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:34,320
Speaker 2: But it's just the idea of like some for some people.

1393
01:09:34,479 --> 01:09:37,080
Speaker 2: This was not my strategy. However, briefly I was on

1394
01:09:37,280 --> 01:09:40,840
Speaker 2: those dating apps for some people. They just swipe yes

1395
01:09:40,920 --> 01:09:43,519
Speaker 2: for everybody and see what. You know, It's like throwing

1396
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:46,080
Speaker 2: dynamite into the lake and see what fish pop up.

1397
01:09:46,120 --> 01:09:48,640
Speaker 2: You know, by the way, humans are not fish, to

1398
01:09:48,680 --> 01:09:53,200
Speaker 2: be clear, but that's that, you know, you're not actually

1399
01:09:53,960 --> 01:09:57,280
Speaker 2: paying attention and you're not actually thinking through the swipe

1400
01:09:57,360 --> 01:09:59,240
Speaker 2: right or swipe left or what your second guest or

1401
01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:02,280
Speaker 2: third guess is going to be. It's just the scorched

1402
01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:05,360
Speaker 2: earth and see what see what comes up when it does.

1403
01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:09,320
Speaker 2: I'm glad we had this conversation. Sona, you're gonna try

1404
01:10:09,320 --> 01:10:11,439
Speaker 2: it tomorrow and you're gonna see how you feel about it.

1405
01:10:11,760 --> 01:10:12,360
Speaker 2: I'm gonna try it.

1406
01:10:12,439 --> 01:10:13,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to see how I feel about I

1407
01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:15,040
Speaker 3: want to see how it makes me feel as I

1408
01:10:15,080 --> 01:10:15,760
Speaker 3: go through by day.

1409
01:10:16,280 --> 01:10:20,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, the ethics of just throwing letters against.

1410
01:10:20,240 --> 01:10:24,240
Speaker 3: The wall solid verbal At gmail dot com as always

1411
01:10:24,520 --> 01:10:27,160
Speaker 3: is the email address. Don't forget to go on out

1412
01:10:27,240 --> 01:10:29,360
Speaker 3: to soliverbal dot com if you want to find our

1413
01:10:29,400 --> 01:10:32,680
Speaker 3: old episodes. We are also on Apple and Spotify and

1414
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Speaker 3: anywhere you can find a podcast. If you've made it

1415
01:10:34,840 --> 01:10:38,240
Speaker 3: this far, why not hit the subscribe button, why not

1416
01:10:38,360 --> 01:10:40,000
Speaker 3: hit the foule button. You're a ready in for a

1417
01:10:40,040 --> 01:10:43,519
Speaker 3: diamond for a dollar, no brainer. We would definitely love

1418
01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:45,200
Speaker 3: to have you as part of our forballer hood.

1419
01:10:45,520 --> 01:10:47,360
Speaker 2: If nothing more. Going out to Spotify and.

1420
01:10:47,360 --> 01:10:50,320
Speaker 3: Give us five star rating and we'll said review that helps.

1421
01:10:50,400 --> 01:10:53,000
Speaker 3: It really does don't forget the follow along on YouTube.

1422
01:10:53,080 --> 01:10:54,600
Speaker 3: Dan and I have been posting clips from all of

1423
01:10:54,640 --> 01:10:56,960
Speaker 3: our shows out there. We've been trying to do a

1424
01:10:57,040 --> 01:10:59,080
Speaker 3: little bit of a better job here through our all

1425
01:10:59,160 --> 01:11:01,360
Speaker 3: season figure out what works and what does it work

1426
01:11:01,800 --> 01:11:05,680
Speaker 3: forballers dot Solid verbal right, the solid yeah yeah, the

1427
01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:09,760
Speaker 3: SOB yeah, or you can find us it's mister beasts

1428
01:11:10,439 --> 01:11:14,400
Speaker 3: beast well yeah yeah. Going out to YouTube. We're posting

1429
01:11:14,439 --> 01:11:17,400
Speaker 3: stuff out there on a pre recurring basis. Verballers dot

1430
01:11:17,479 --> 01:11:19,920
Speaker 3: com is the aforementioned Patreon where you can find some

1431
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:22,680
Speaker 3: of the bonus stuff and join up with our community

1432
01:11:22,720 --> 01:11:26,439
Speaker 3: of superverballers. And last, not least solid giveaway dot com.

1433
01:11:26,760 --> 01:11:29,800
Speaker 3: When that signed mini helmet from Frank Beemer a legend.

1434
01:11:30,360 --> 01:11:34,640
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely yeah, Dan Rubenstein, fun show and with that,

1435
01:11:35,240 --> 01:11:37,840
Speaker 2: I bid you a Fonda you ad IU.

1436
01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:41,080
Speaker 3: My name is ty Hilda Brandt. That fine gentleman, that

1437
01:11:41,360 --> 01:11:44,800
Speaker 3: that fine gentleman over there is Dan Rubinstein. We will

1438
01:11:44,960 --> 01:11:48,639
Speaker 3: be back next week in meantimes, Stay solid peace.

1439
01:11:49,479 --> 01:11:52,240
Speaker 2: Also a five mont of work two eas