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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at Breaking Points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 3: But enough with that, let's get to the show. Good morning,

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Speaker 3: and welcome to Counterpoints. We have a huge show today.

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Speaker 3: Before we get to that, I want to say a

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Speaker 3: big thank you to everybody who watches this show and

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Speaker 3: signed up for Drop site news. It's been such a

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Speaker 3: gratifying and exhilarating first couple of days we're at. I

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Speaker 3: was keeping Emily updated on the subscription totals last night.

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Speaker 3: Last night we cleared one hundred thousand free subscribers, over

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Speaker 3: a discount code now to kind of boost it up

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Speaker 3: to three thousand by the end of the day. So

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Speaker 3: if you go to drop sitenews dot com slash Counterpoints

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Speaker 3: just for Counterpoints also Breaking Points viewers. Yeah, well, but

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Speaker 3: if you don't watch Counterpoints, do not use that code.

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Speaker 3: It's an honor system. Yes, and you'll get twenty percent off. Now,

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Speaker 3: the journalism is free, so the twenty percent off is

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Speaker 3: just kind of to make people feel better about, you know,

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Speaker 3: about what they're doing. You also get to comment and

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Speaker 3: do all the funny things.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Ran, The fact that you're building a new news

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Speaker 4: outlet I think is so cool and it's been amazing

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Speaker 4: to watch the response. I understand why so many people

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Speaker 4: I signed up, so many people are exhilarated along with

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Speaker 4: you because what you guys are planning to do, what

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Speaker 4: you've already done, some amazing stories coming out, and I

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Speaker 4: know you guys are working on more, so very very

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Speaker 4: cool stuff.

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Speaker 3: Congratulations, and the work that we do here will regularly

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Speaker 3: be featured right here.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: By here I mean drop Side News and then here

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Speaker 3: I mean Counterpoints.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So it's a.

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Speaker 7: Cool name and logo too.

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Speaker 3: By the way, I think it looks good. I like it. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: we can throw that logo up there with the uh

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Speaker 3: with the discount code, dropside news dot com, slash Counterpoints

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Speaker 3: and some of the reporting that we have from drop

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Speaker 3: site We're going to be talking about later in this

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Speaker 3: uaw uaw segment that is called anti Semitism under there.

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Speaker 3: It's really going to blow your mind. I don't want

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Speaker 3: to even tease it. It's one of the craziest things

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Speaker 3: I think we've reported on in a long time. So

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Speaker 3: we'll talk about that when we get to it. First,

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Speaker 3: of course, we're going to talk about Joe Biden and

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Speaker 3: the fact that he is still running for president, which

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Speaker 3: is quite remarkable, still still pident, still serving as president.

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Speaker 3: We're going to talk about the polling collapse that he's seeing,

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Speaker 3: which is I think the thing the only thing that

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Speaker 3: drives him out of there. If it's not the twenty

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Speaker 3: fifth Amendment, it's kind of the gravity of the polls

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Speaker 3: just pulling, just physically pulling him out of there. And

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Speaker 3: then at the end of the show, we're going to

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Speaker 3: talk to Brian Selter, Yes, longtime CNN media guy who's

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Speaker 3: now at Vanity Fair. He has some thoughts on the

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Speaker 3: way that the media has handled this, and as a

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Speaker 3: kind of elder in the village, I think it's going

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Speaker 3: to be fun to hear his take on his fellow

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Speaker 3: villa because.

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Speaker 4: We also have some thoughts on how the media has

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Speaker 4: goggled all of this we do, and on our Friday

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Speaker 4: show this week, make sure you stay tuned for that,

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Speaker 4: we have hell of a debate coming up with Jenkjuger

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Speaker 4: and Ryan Dmitri Melhorn.

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Speaker 3: This is a debate the likes of which basically could

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Speaker 3: never happen. It's a Democratic mega doner, one of the

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Speaker 3: most influential behind the scenes mega donors and organizers in

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Speaker 3: Democratic Party politics, who is a steadfast supporter of Biden

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Speaker 3: remaining in the race, debating Jenk Huger, who to this

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Speaker 3: audience needs no introduction. Both of them in the room

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Speaker 3: is going to be quite something, or both of them

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Speaker 3: remotely actually is going to be quite something. Emily and

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Speaker 3: I are just going to sit back and the popcorn gifts.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, all right, Well, let's start with the ongoing congressional

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Speaker 4: reaction to Biden's debate, the fallout from the debate, Biden's

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Speaker 4: response to the fallout from the debate, because more and

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Speaker 4: more people are continuing to be forced to comment or

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Speaker 4: to come out openly and on their own and say

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Speaker 4: either yes, we're still with Joe, or oh my gosh,

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Speaker 4: this man needs to get out of the race. So

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Speaker 4: let's roll the first clip mash up here.

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Speaker 7: I'm not going to comment on what I said in

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Speaker 7: the driving HATO.

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Speaker 8: Well, let's say he's the president, very clear yesterday that

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Speaker 8: he's running, and for me that's dispositive.

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Speaker 6: We'd have to support him.

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Speaker 9: Democratic Party about the president's ability to surve on to

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Speaker 9: that one of yours that there might be a challenge

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Speaker 9: at the convention if there.

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Speaker 6: Is, is there the ability.

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Speaker 10: To throw out the virtual domination.

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Speaker 6: As I said before, it's pub with Joe.

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Speaker 3: So that's Jerry Nadler and of course then Chuck Schumer.

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Speaker 3: Jerry Nadler had publicly said that he wanted Joe Biden

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Speaker 3: to drop out of the race. He said or he

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Speaker 3: said that in a private meeting which was reported publicly.

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Speaker 3: What you're seeing is people now kind of backing off

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Speaker 3: as Joe is going public. Michael Bennett, however, in a

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Speaker 3: private meeting, this is a center from senator from Colorado,

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Speaker 3: he said he wants Joe to drop out. He did

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Speaker 3: not back off that. On Cable last night.

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Speaker 4: My colleague Dana Bash reported that you Senator John Tester

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Speaker 4: and Senator Shared Brown all said during that launch that

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Speaker 4: you don't think Bresident Biden can win in twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 6: Is that true.

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Speaker 11: Well, it's true that I said that, and I did

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Speaker 11: say that behind closed doors, and you guys and others

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Speaker 11: asked whether I had said it.

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Speaker 3: And that is what I said. So I figured I

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Speaker 3: should come here.

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Speaker 4: And say publicly, why do you think he can't win

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Speaker 4: in November.

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Speaker 11: I just think this race is on a trajectory that

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Speaker 11: is very worrisome if you care about the future of

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Speaker 11: this country. Joe Biden was nine points up at this time.

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Speaker 11: At the last time he was running, Hillary Clinton was

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Speaker 11: five points up. This is the first time in more

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Speaker 11: than twenty years that a Republican president has been up

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Speaker 11: in this part of the campaign. Donald Trump is on track,

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Speaker 11: I think to win the selection and maybe win it

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Speaker 11: by a landslide and take with him the Senate and

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Speaker 11: the House. And so for me, this isn't a question

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Speaker 11: about polling, it's not a question about politics. It's a

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Speaker 11: moral question about the future of our country. And I

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Speaker 11: think it's critically important for us to come to grips

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Speaker 11: with what we face if together we put this country

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Speaker 11: on the path of electing Donald Trump again.

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Speaker 3: So there's a centrist Democratic senator going out on a limb.

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Speaker 3: We've also got a progressive congresswoman going out or two

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Speaker 3: of them actually going out on a different sort of limb.

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Speaker 3: Let's roll this next one.

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Speaker 12: Has spoken to the President over the weekend. I have

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Speaker 12: spoken with him extensively. He made clear then and he

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Speaker 12: has made clear since that he is in this race.

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Speaker 12: The matter is closed. He had reiterated that this morning.

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Speaker 12: He has reiterated that to the public. Joe Biden is

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Speaker 12: our nominee. He is not leaving this race. He is

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Speaker 12: in this race, and I support him. Now, what I

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Speaker 12: think is critically important right now is that we focus

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Speaker 12: on what it takes to win in November, because he

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Speaker 12: is running against Donald Trump, who is a man with

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Speaker 12: thirty felony convictions that has been that has committed thirty

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Speaker 12: four felony crimes, and not a single Republican has asked

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Speaker 12: for Donald Trump to not be the nominee. I'm here

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Speaker 12: to win on this democracy. I'm here to win in November.

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Speaker 12: And what's critically important is what the president. I believe

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Speaker 12: that the President needs to do, and I have communicated

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Speaker 12: this what the President and the White House should should

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Speaker 12: do in order to make sure that we win in November,

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Speaker 12: and that is making sure that we pivot and working

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Speaker 12: and increasingly commit to the issues that are critically important

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Speaker 12: to working people across this country. How are we going

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Speaker 12: to expand medicare, How are we going to expand social security?

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Speaker 12: How are we going to how are we going to

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Speaker 12: provide relief to people's rent and mortgages. And if we

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Speaker 12: can do that and continue our work on student loans,

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Speaker 12: secure a ceasefire, and bring those dollars back into investing

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Speaker 12: in public policy, then that's how we win in November.

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Speaker 12: That's what I'm committed to, and that's what i want

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Speaker 12: to make sure that.

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Speaker 3: We put So AOC made those comments roughly at the

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Speaker 3: same time as you, and we can put up the

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Speaker 3: next element here A three fellow Squad member iihan Omar said,

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Speaker 3: outside of this is coming out of the caucus meeting,

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Speaker 3: outside a few outliers, I think everybody's supporting the president.

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Speaker 3: You saw a lot of people kind of stunned to

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Speaker 3: see Squad members coming out supportive of Biden's staying in

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Speaker 3: the race. For the last week or so, people have

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Speaker 3: been observing that they were silent on the question, and

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Speaker 3: the thinking was and the thinking you know from that

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Speaker 3: camp was them coming out and telling Biden to step

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Speaker 3: down doesn't get him to step down. In fact, it

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Speaker 3: only reinforces his willingness to stay in because now it's

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Speaker 3: a squad or left versus kind of establishment thing that

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Speaker 3: doesn't require them to come out publicly. At the same time,

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Speaker 3: if you're gonna take the the like unpopular position with

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Speaker 3: or the wrong position, let's just call it the wrong position.

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Speaker 3: If you're going to take the wrong position like, you

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Speaker 3: might as well take it all the way. And what

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Speaker 3: people are forgetting is the context of the Democratic primaries.

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Speaker 3: Both ilhan Omar and Corey Bush have Democratic primaries right now,

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Speaker 3: and they are running ads linking themselves to the Democratic

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Speaker 3: Party and to Joe Biden. Because the way that Jamal

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Speaker 3: Bowman was beaten, for instance, was by going after him

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Speaker 3: for his vote against the infrastructure bill, which was actually

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Speaker 3: done in support of the broader, build back Better agenda,

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Speaker 3: but he voted against it. They would say he's not

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Speaker 3: a good enough Democrat. They said that to Summer Lea

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Speaker 3: like that's the hit that they do inside the Democratic Party,

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Speaker 3: which is more partisan the Republicans, that you're not a

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Speaker 3: good enough Democrat. And so the way that Corey Bush

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Speaker 3: and Neilhanemore, count of that is with pictures of them

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Speaker 3: with establishment democrats. I'm with him. So for them to

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Speaker 3: then come out and say, well, actually he should drop out,

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Speaker 3: even if they believe it undercuts that, even if a

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Speaker 3: bunch of their supporters want him to drop out. So

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Speaker 3: I think it's just straight up primary politics. That's what's

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Speaker 3: going on there. Plus a final thing. It's a kind

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Speaker 3: of no lose situation, like if they call for him

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Speaker 3: to out and he loses, doesn't drop out and he loses,

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Speaker 3: then everybody says, oh, look the left, Look what the

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Speaker 3: left did. They undermined Biden. If they call for him

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Speaker 3: to stay in and he drops out, nobody's going to

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Speaker 3: be mad at them. Everybody forgets. If they call for

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Speaker 3: him to stay in and he wins, now they're heroes.

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Speaker 3: And so it's kind of cynical, just posturing and calculating

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Speaker 3: about their own kind of game theory, Which is why

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Speaker 3: I was saying the other day, we don't have a

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Speaker 3: kind of party system. We have a politician system. All

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Speaker 3: the politicians are just looking out for their own advantage

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Speaker 3: with the system.

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Speaker 7: It's a good way to put it.

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Speaker 4: I mean, the contrast between members of the squad and

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Speaker 4: the sort of young left. Obviously there's a difference between

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Speaker 4: the online left and the broader young left.

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Speaker 7: But you know, in the.

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Speaker 4: Kind of activist crowd there has been You can correct

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Speaker 4: me on this if you think I'm misinterpreting it. But

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Speaker 4: the coconut pill meming that we talked about last week,

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Speaker 4: I think is a real reflection of the ironic detachment

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Speaker 4: but discussed really with what's happened with Joe Biden and

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Speaker 4: how he's been propped up by oligarchs essentially, and so

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Speaker 4: to see that tension and contrast, I don't know where that,

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Speaker 4: I mean, depending on how this all plays out. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: it does seem like a huge gap, especially for somebody

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Speaker 4: like AOC.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it really is. It's it's basically AOC saying that

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Speaker 3: she's making a play here that's just completely different than

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Speaker 3: what that old base was callin inaudible, I would put

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Speaker 3: up the next element here. This is the kind of

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Speaker 3: Washington media assessing what's going on here that Biden's winning

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Speaker 3: so far that after years A Zach Carter made this

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Speaker 3: point on Twitter, after years of Democrats saying that Republican

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Speaker 3: officials and senators and members of Congress are complete cowards

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Speaker 3: for not standing up to Donald Trump for saying privately

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Speaker 3: that Donald Trump is an ogre and a threat to

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Speaker 3: our republic, but then publicly supporting him, Like you constantly

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Speaker 3: hear Democrats saying that I hear from my Republican friends

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Speaker 3: all the time they hate Donald Trump, but publicly they

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Speaker 3: say something completely different. Democrats doing the exact version of

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Speaker 3: that right now, privately saying one thing and then publicly saying,

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Speaker 3: you know what, I'm with Joe.

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Speaker 4: And so that Axios story that was just up on

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Speaker 4: the screen sort of the clicking moment that came out

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Speaker 4: of it is there were, according to sources, quote actual

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Speaker 4: tears at a meeting yesterday of small It was a

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Speaker 4: small meeting of swing district Democrats. And in the same article,

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Speaker 4: there's an interesting description from Axios where they say that

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Speaker 4: yesterday was Joe Biden's first day of quote sustained support

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Speaker 4: from people on Capitol Hill. And if this is what

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Speaker 4: sustained support looks like Michael Bennett, a senator Democratic senator

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Speaker 4: from Colorado, going on primetime CNN and saying that he

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Speaker 4: shouldn't been for the president, that's you know, we know

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Speaker 4: the ilhan Omar statement is wrong, that it's more than

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Speaker 4: just a quote few outs. As she put it, you know,

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Speaker 4: maybe a handy line to get past those reporters who

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Speaker 4: are absolutely like pepperat you with questions, yeah, all day,

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Speaker 4: every day. And also, let's put this next element up

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Speaker 4: on the screen. As Ryan was just about to say,

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Speaker 4: there was a Senate Democrat meeting, and Ryan, you may

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Speaker 4: have some color to add to this, but this if

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Speaker 4: this is again the sustained support for Joe Biden. Even

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Speaker 4: Chruck Schumer, who we heard say kind of if you

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Speaker 4: were watching with a shrug, I'm with Joe yesterday, he

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Speaker 4: didn't even make in that meeting an argument for or

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Speaker 4: against Biden. According to this report, he merely acted as

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Speaker 4: a neutral facilitator of the conversation where you had people

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Speaker 4: who were going all in on Biden. I can only

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Speaker 4: imagine that was John Fetterman and people who were sort

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Speaker 4: of stating the obvious about the problems with Joe Biden.

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Speaker 4: Because now this is, as we'll talk about, soon starting

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Speaker 4: to show up in polling, and Senate Democrats have a

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Speaker 4: really tough map this cycle, so they're very concerned about that.

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Speaker 4: Even Chuck Schumer, the Senate majority leader, a long time

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Speaker 4: Biden friend.

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Speaker 3: An ally was neutral, right, And Schumer has been very

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Speaker 3: quiet since the debate and has allowed it to be

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Speaker 3: known around Washington that he's, you know, doesn't think Biden

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Speaker 3: can win. Like that's that's the message that his that

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Speaker 3: he's been he's been putting out, but he hasn't said

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Speaker 3: it publicly. He's doing what all these other members of

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Speaker 3: Congress are doing. Even with AOC you said, I talked

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Speaker 3: to him. Biden is running. Like these are just positive

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Speaker 3: statements that are like a declarative truth about a truth

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Speaker 3: that is true in that moment, like he is running.

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Speaker 3: And then they go from there on that presumption rather

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Speaker 3: than endorsing it and saying I want Biden to run.

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Speaker 3: They just people. People just say And Jery Nadler said

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Speaker 3: the same thing. He is our nominee technically not true.

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Speaker 3: He's actually not the nominee yet. But no details aside

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Speaker 3: if we can put up the Mikey Cheryl one yep uh,

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Speaker 3: he said. She says, I know President Biden cares deeply

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Speaker 3: about the future of our country. That's why I'm asking

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Speaker 3: that he declared that he won't run for election. My

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Speaker 3: full statement, Cheryl is widely understood to be looking at

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Speaker 3: statewide office in New Jersey. She's a swing district Democrat,

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Speaker 3: one of the people who understands which way the politics

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Speaker 3: of this are blowing. Tammy Baldwin in Wisconsin. Did you

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Speaker 3: see this? She there was a poll out we'll talk

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Speaker 3: about this later that has something like a twelve point

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Speaker 3: gap between her and Biden. Like she's up by five six,

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Speaker 3: he's down by five or six Wisconsin, and she is

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Speaker 3: refusing to appear with him when he comes to Wisconsin.

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Speaker 4: Interesting, he was just in Wisconsin, That's where he did

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Speaker 4: the George Chefhanopolis interview. In fact, he was just in Madison,

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Speaker 4: which was an area that time she refused to lived

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Speaker 4: for a long time representative.

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Speaker 3: She refused to be seen with him. Yeah, She's like, look,

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Speaker 3: I'm trying to win election. I don't know what you're

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Speaker 3: doing over there. Right, it's not trying to win an election.

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Speaker 4: These aren't the same things, right, So yea, and I

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Speaker 4: think it's Yesterday was noteworthy because there was this momentum

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Speaker 4: where you had some really staunch defenders Abiden come out

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Speaker 4: and respond to these questions from reporters haunting the halls

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Speaker 4: of Capitol Hill. At the same time with people like

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Speaker 4: Chuck Schumer. It's different than how they have been posturing

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Speaker 4: themselves privately. And there are plenty of people who are

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Speaker 4: so openly major people, big names, Michael Bennett completely uncomfortable.

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Speaker 3: James Carville had a high profile New York Times column

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Speaker 3: where he endorsed what Ezra Klin and I have both

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Speaker 3: written about. He said, basically, what you need to do

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Speaker 3: is he needs a job out and he needs to

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Speaker 3: free his delegates. Not don't do this thing where you

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Speaker 3: just coronate Kamala Harris. You have some version of a

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Speaker 3: mini primary, whether it's a bunch of town halls, whether

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Speaker 3: it's leading into the convention, whatever you have, and make

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Speaker 3: it a spectacle, like make it legitimate in the sense

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Speaker 3: that it is participatory, just like reality TV fake participating.

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Speaker 7: Your piece on that was so good.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just let like the country and what John

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Speaker 3: Stewart talked about this, the country is hungry for something authentic,

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Speaker 3: like some sign that our system can still respond to

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Speaker 3: the needs, wants and will of the people, and we're

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Speaker 3: getting no signs of that kind of whatsoever.

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Speaker 4: Well, but Alexandria Kasi, of course has said that this

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Speaker 4: is about saving democracy and that's going the time.

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Speaker 3: For voting, no time for participation. This is about saving democracy.

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Speaker 4: It's going to be a really difficult line, I think

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Speaker 4: for Biden defenders, because on the one hand, that is

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Speaker 4: the argument they're making. I wrote about this for Unheard

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Speaker 4: a couple of weeks ago. It's like the Flight ninety

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Speaker 4: three election on the right that you had was this

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Speaker 4: is such a the other side of such an existential

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Speaker 4: threat to the country that you have to support an

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Speaker 4: imperfect vessel, a deeply flawed vessel.

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Speaker 7: And it's that existential reaction.

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Speaker 4: And so if you're defending lowercase democracy, you're defending Biden

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Speaker 4: in the name of lowercase democracy. It becomes a really

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Speaker 4: tenable argument to make that the public is just like

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Speaker 4: not interested in at this point at all. The final

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Speaker 4: thing I wanted to say on this is you're starting

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Speaker 4: to see conventional wisdom consolidate around the idea that it's

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Speaker 4: just it's Biden. You know, Democrats are saying, you know,

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Speaker 4: we just have to go with Biden. Everyone's getting more

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Speaker 4: comfortable with it, easing back into the notion of just

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Speaker 4: sticking with Biden. All of the other alternatives. We may

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Speaker 4: have had fun with those for a few weeks now

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Speaker 4: it's time to get serious. That's absolutely not what's going

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Speaker 4: to happen. I mean, they're trying to make that happen.

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Speaker 4: It's like trying to make fetch happen. They're trying to

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Speaker 4: do it, but you're not going to make fetch happen.

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Speaker 3: Right, And just as this show will march inexorably as

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Speaker 3: you see at the bottom toward that thing called polling

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Speaker 3: at the middle there like, we have no choice. We're

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Speaker 3: going to get the polling. Yeah, we have to do

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Speaker 3: so is Biden. So is Biden going to get to polling? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: And that matters the thing when he's down eight, nine,

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Speaker 3: ten points in Pennsylvania, as he's approaching a double digit

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Speaker 3: gap in Pennsylvania at that point, and it's and you

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Speaker 3: haven't even had the convention, then this whole well, I

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Speaker 3: guess it's just going to be Biden takes a real knock.

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Speaker 3: Should we move to the cultural response here?

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Speaker 4: Final point just quickly is Biden has this press conference

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Speaker 4: at the NATO summit here in d C.

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Speaker 3: You gave a speech last night where he didn't fall

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Speaker 3: off the stage right.

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Speaker 7: People.

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Speaker 4: Press report said that the space the speech was excellent,

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Speaker 4: that it didn't have the usual stumbles.

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Speaker 3: So who enunciated his words? It was it was a

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Speaker 3: speech that you're like, all right, if this is actually

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Speaker 3: who the guy is like one hundred percent of the time,

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Speaker 3: and all he has to do is read a teleprompter.

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Speaker 7: Great, sure, get him in it out. Yeah, give him

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Speaker 7: the words.

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Speaker 4: But he's also doing a live press conference on Thursday,

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Speaker 4: meaning questions from reporters, which is something that he rarely does,

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Speaker 4: does not happen very often, and hasn't done since the

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Speaker 4: debate unless it was, you know, going back and forth

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Speaker 4: from a plane or anything.

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Speaker 3: And he scheduled it like a week ago to buy

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Speaker 3: time to say, well, don't kick me out yet. And

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Speaker 3: so the final thing John James Galbraith, who Jamie Galbraith,

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Speaker 3: who we've had on this show. He has this famous

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Speaker 3: saying that anybody who says four times that they will

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Speaker 3: not resign will resign. We have to count the number

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Speaker 3: of times, and after the fourth that's when he's out.

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Speaker 4: I don't even know if we could possibly he did

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Speaker 4: that in this George Stephanopoulos interview, like twenty times.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think that counts as one four separate occasions

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Speaker 3: of declaring that you will not resign means that you

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Speaker 3: will resign.

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Speaker 7: Interesting. They will call it the Galbraith rule.

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Speaker 3: The gall Brath role is undefeated, so we'll see.

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Speaker 4: Meanwhile, cultural reactions to Joe Biden are all in the

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Speaker 4: same direction, which I think is pretty interesting. There's not

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Speaker 4: much of the split screen that you're seeing on Capitol

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Speaker 4: Hill reflected in the broader culture, which has been pretty

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Speaker 4: friendly to Biden over the last several years. Let's start

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Speaker 4: with this st from Stephen Colbert this week.

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Speaker 1: Now, the competing virtue here, there's another competing virtue, and

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Speaker 1: that is self sacrifice. And self sacrifice takes a particular

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Speaker 1: kind of courage, and that is a courage I believe

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden is capable of. I believe he's a good

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Speaker 1: enough man. He is a good enough president to put

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Speaker 1: the needs of the country ahead of the needs of

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Speaker 1: his ego, and however painful that might be, it is possible.

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Speaker 1: Handing leadership to a younger generation is the right thing

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Speaker 1: for the greater goodest.

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Speaker 3: Or good as either.

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Speaker 7: One as good as versus goodest.

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Speaker 3: The good as I was trying. I was listening to

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Speaker 3: it again just for fun. It's like the good As.

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Speaker 3: If you haven't seen by the way, the entire John

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Speaker 3: Stuart monologue it's so good, like start to finish, and

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Speaker 3: it's like, how on earth did we even survive without

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Speaker 3: John Stewart on the air for as long as we

437
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,840
Speaker 3: made it and we didn't, like basically the Republic fell apart.

438
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:52,600
Speaker 7: You're saying it.

439
00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:56,119
Speaker 4: This is the most like gen X take that you have.

440
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 4: Is we desperately need John Stewart to there's a fine

441
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:00,159
Speaker 4: line disaster.

442
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 3: Yes, and at least he makes me laugh. Let's roll

443
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 3: hold John Stewart.

444
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,280
Speaker 5: Get on board or shut the fuck up? Is not

445
00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 5: a particularly compelling pro democracy bumper sticker.

446
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,240
Speaker 7: Nor is money than to do.

447
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:18,440
Speaker 5: Do you understand the opportunity here? Do you have any

448
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 5: idea how thirsty Americans are for any hint of inspiration

449
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:28,959
Speaker 5: or leadership and a release from this choice of a

450
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,840
Speaker 5: megalomaniac and a suffocating gerontocracy?

451
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 3: It is trusting or.

452
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 6: Feel free to.

453
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:42,119
Speaker 5: Ignore any obvious weaknesses in your team's existential fight for

454
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 5: freedom and democracy and then just white knuckle this thing

455
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:49,880
Speaker 5: till November, or take the advice of your own candidate.

456
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 13: Well, do you think there are any demascrapi a be

457
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:53,840
Speaker 13: doll other.

458
00:22:53,720 --> 00:23:03,720
Speaker 3: Than you and Elsewhere in the clip, he says, Look,

459
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 3: I don't know, just spitballing here, but maybe you could

460
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,159
Speaker 3: have all the Democrats come together in one city and

461
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:14,159
Speaker 3: being them, let's say in Chicago, hang around for four days.

462
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:15,359
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's an idea.

463
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 3: People can give speeches, present their visions, and then you

464
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 3: vote and the winner is the nominee. The crazy idea

465
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,640
Speaker 3: may you're doing about six weeks or so just might work.

466
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 3: It's just so crazy, it just might work. But importantly, Charlemagne,

467
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:32,640
Speaker 3: let's roll him.

468
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 14: All I hear is the ego, and I hope they

469
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:36,880
Speaker 14: take him up on his offer. Every single Democrat who

470
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,399
Speaker 14: feels like, you know, the Democrats can win if President

471
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 14: Biden is the nominee needs to challenge him at the convention,

472
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 14: take him up on his offer.

473
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:44,880
Speaker 3: And I can't believe we're.

474
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 14: Just having this conversation because I've been saying this for

475
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 14: several months and asking the question of Biden and Harris

476
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 14: a winnable ticket and if the answer is no, Biden

477
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 14: should step aside. And people shouldn't be upset when folks

478
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 14: say that, especially if.

479
00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:00,880
Speaker 3: Y'all want to win. Yeah again, and Biden, you played

480
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 3: the CBC card. The Congression Black Caucus card this week,

481
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,399
Speaker 3: he still had the support public support, at least of

482
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:12,479
Speaker 3: a lot of CBC members, and very angrily was saying, like,

483
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 3: I have black support. Yeah, he was straight that morning,

484
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,680
Speaker 3: Joe or wherever he was yelling about that, and that

485
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,159
Speaker 3: did seem to back back Democrats off a little bit.

486
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 3: Charlemagne coming out so forcefully certainly doesn't help with that case.

487
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 7: Yeah, and this isn't going away.

488
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 4: I mean, these are all positions that have been staked

489
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 4: out very publicly by people on their own shows. And

490
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 4: so for the Biden administration to and Democrats actually to

491
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 4: think that there's a way that they can get through

492
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 4: this press conference, Biden surprises everyone, he's really good, he

493
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 4: has a great night, he has a great day, gets

494
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 4: through it. They can really tightly manage his public appearances

495
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 4: for the next few weeks and into November. This isn't

496
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,879
Speaker 4: going away. I mean, it's not going to stop the

497
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 4: drip drip of comedians, talk show hosts, other members of

498
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 4: Congress who have publicly said now taken a really difficult

499
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 4: stance in the Democratic Party. It shouldn't be a difficult stance,

500
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:09,920
Speaker 4: but taking what is a difficult turning out to be

501
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 4: a difficult stance to the Democratic Party. The spin is

502
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,399
Speaker 4: not going to work in the long term. And so

503
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 4: if the Biden administration Democrats think they can get through

504
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,880
Speaker 4: this week Biden has a good week, they'll be patient

505
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:22,640
Speaker 4: with the poll numbers. I really think that's what they're

506
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 4: trying to do right now, is just say we're just

507
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:25,920
Speaker 4: gonna be patient with these poll numbers. We're going to

508
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:27,640
Speaker 4: get him back out in front of the public. He's

509
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 4: going to do Stephanopolis, He's going to do a press conference.

510
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 4: People are gonna see he's okay. We can kind of

511
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 4: put the genie back in the bottle. They can't, and

512
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 4: I think they're delusional to believe that they can. Sort of,

513
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 4: like you said, White knucklet out of this week, let

514
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 4: the news cycle.

515
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 7: Die down and move on. It's not going to move on.

516
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 3: The problem is reality is intervening here. And it's rare

517
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:50,719
Speaker 3: that the bar almost makes a sentence here. The bar

518
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 3: at the bottom there said, you know, Biden health polling, Those.

519
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 7: Are the anti semitism, Brian Stelt.

520
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 3: Those stop making sense. But Biden, because of his hell

521
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 3: health is polling so terribly. Let's move on to the

522
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 3: latest discussion of the reality of the substance that we're

523
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 3: talking about. We can play this first clip. This is

524
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 3: a neurologist talking about the condition that is, you know,

525
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,400
Speaker 3: Biden's age. Basically, let's roll that.

526
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,199
Speaker 15: You noticed anything that gives you a red flag as

527
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:23,679
Speaker 15: a doctor?

528
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 9: Oh yeah, I see him twenty times a day in clinic.

529
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 9: I mean it's ironic because he has just such classic

530
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,159
Speaker 9: features of nerd degeneration. I mean word finding difficulties. And

531
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 9: that's not oh I couldn't find the word. That's from

532
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 9: degeneration of the word retrieval area.

533
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,919
Speaker 15: He's also overcome stuttering though, could that Could that be

534
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:39,640
Speaker 15: part of that too.

535
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 9: No, this is not a palattle issue or a speech discrepancy,

536
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 9: which is very different from a lemon nod dysfunction, actual

537
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 9: word retrieval where you pick a similar question or talk

538
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 9: around the issue. Plus the rigidity monotone voice.

539
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 3: Wait, go back to that.

540
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 9: The rigidity, rigidity, loss of arms swing, standing up, lord doedically.

541
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,719
Speaker 9: You notice when he turns, it's kind of end block turning.

542
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 9: It's a quick turn. So that's one of the hallmarks

543
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 9: of Parkinson's is rigidity and braded kinesias, slow movement, and

544
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 9: he has that hallmark, especially with the low voices. That

545
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:12,400
Speaker 9: was a cold hypophonia.

546
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 3: A small monotone.

547
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 9: Voice like this over time is a hallmark of parkinsonism.

548
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 9: I could have diagnosed him from across the mall.

549
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 15: It's very hard to diagnose Parkinson's, isn't It's it's not

550
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:23,959
Speaker 15: It's not simple.

551
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 3: I mean, I've heard that it can be.

552
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 9: I heard of the one of the easier movement disorders

553
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 9: to diagnose. Actually, right, but it's so clinic. There's there's

554
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 9: very little others. And I'm a you know, I'm a Democrat.

555
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 9: I always say, yeah, at this right, It's just like,

556
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 9: this guy is not a hard case.

557
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 15: But I've had I've had relatives who have gone through issues,

558
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 15: neurological issues, and I've heard that sometimes Parkinson's is not

559
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 15: very easy to nail.

560
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 6: You have to take a lot of tests.

561
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 9: There's like I mean, it's early on. If you're just

562
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 9: present with like hallucinations that could be a variety of things,

563
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 9: or just the cognitive problems that could be Alzheimer's versus parkinsonism,

564
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 9: and that becomes a little nebulous.

565
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:55,920
Speaker 6: But once you.

566
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 9: Start manifesting the hallmark motor symptoms, right, slow movement, rigid

567
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 9: et mass faces, hypophonia. I mean, if a med student

568
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 9: did not pick Parkinson's on the test, they just a mediated.

569
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 15: Let me ask, you're a Democrat, you're a doctor. You

570
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 15: sound like you're frustrated with what the White House is saying.

571
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 9: Yeah, why, well, because you know, I'm an American before everything,

572
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 9: and I look at it and say, when I used

573
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 9: to see Russia, Soviet Union, North Korea when they just

574
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 9: make out rageous things, you know, like when North Korea

575
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 9: can't keep the lights on and they say, oh, you know,

576
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 9: it was some faulty power thing.

577
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,640
Speaker 3: I kind of hate that kind of stuff. They had

578
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 3: four years.

579
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 9: My own party had four years to find you know,

580
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 9: this was a wreck and slow motion.

581
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 3: And they had four years.

582
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 9: To find out of three hundred and fifty Americans, one

583
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 9: person that could take the place. And here we are,

584
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 9: the day before school, trying to do the homework and

585
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,719
Speaker 9: replace a guy who's got a neurodegenerative disease.

586
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 3: Pretty incredible when you look at that list of symptoms, Yeah,

587
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 3: it's like, well, you know, it's really hard to diagnose, Like, no,

588
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 3: it's not.

589
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, And the NBC anchor sort of being like he

590
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 4: overcame a stutter, Right, Could that have anything to do

591
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 4: with him saying we beat medicare.

592
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 3: Which and I'm like push back, you know, oh, sure,

593
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 3: go ahead. But yes, it's like it's pretty clear at

594
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 3: this point that it's he's got a neurogegenitive condition. I

595
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 3: loved his line about if a meds if you showed

596
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 3: somebody with these symptoms on this test and they did

597
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 3: not identify this very common and famous condition, that they

598
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 3: would be remediated, right that.

599
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 4: It's actually not when you have all of this example

600
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 4: of Biden, all these examples of Biden walking and talking

601
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 4: and interacting with other.

602
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 7: People over the course of years, which we do.

603
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 4: Because he was running for president and he is now

604
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 4: the president of the United States. It's not as though

605
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 4: there's a dearth of available examples of his issues.

606
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 7: I mean, we've seen it publicly.

607
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 4: We saw two hours of it or an hour and

608
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 4: a half of it in the debate itself, just a

609
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 4: twenty minute interview with George Stephanopoulos on edited you could

610
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 4: see all of that there. And so his name is

611
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 4: doctor Tom Pitts. He's a neurologist. That was an interview

612
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 4: on I think NBC News Now from Monday. That started

613
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 4: to really get traction yesterday. And I think one of

614
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 4: the reasons it does because he's like relaxed and confident.

615
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 4: He's taking a really difficult position. Again shouldn't be a

616
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 4: difficult position. But when you go out publicly and do that,

617
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 4: it's not like when you had doctors left and right.

618
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 4: I don't mean that politically, but coming out of the

619
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 4: woodwork to diagnose Donald Trump with something during that twenty

620
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 4: fifth Amendment conversation that was spawned by the anonymous letter

621
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 4: and to.

622
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 3: The Trump also easy to diagnose. He's just got so

623
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 3: many different things.

624
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,959
Speaker 4: It's do you remember how easily people were coming out

625
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 4: and be like, oh, it's.

626
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 3: This that Atlantic had like every I had like thirty

627
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 3: different therapists or something. Do it like on the cover

628
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 3: of their thing. I think in like twenty seventeen or something. Yeah,

629
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 3: it was. That was the big thing that the liberal

630
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 3: press loved to do is put Trump on the couch.

631
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 4: And you know, for doctors, people who run in circles

632
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 4: of the affluent and the educated, coming out against Donald

633
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 4: Trump is a badge of honor. That's socially a popular

634
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 4: thing to do. For Biden, it's a little bit different.

635
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 4: I mean, I think most of the country is with

636
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 4: doctor Pitts here, but it's still coming out against the

637
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 4: city in president of the United States, who is clinging

638
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 4: to power even in some quarterors of his own party.

639
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 4: Nancy Pelosi has said I'm not ready to make a statement,

640
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 4: even though she said it's a fair question whether it's

641
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 4: an episode or a broader condition and ran. My biggest

642
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 4: frustration in the last couple of weeks has been how political,

643
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 4: how like obsessively fixated on politics we are in the

644
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 4: aftermath of that debate. Instead of saying, this is the

645
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 4: man who currently has a nuclear.

646
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 7: Curs he's the president.

647
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 4: It's not a conversation about whether he should be running

648
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 4: for president. It's a conversation about whether he should be president.

649
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 4: And we're not whether he should be president right now,

650
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 4: and you hardly ever hear that come up. That's why

651
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 4: we put polling third in the show because as important

652
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 4: as it is the question of who's the president two

653
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 4: weeks from now, as these decisions are being made, it

654
00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 4: tells you what people really care about with the oligarchy,

655
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 4: really cares about is having someone they can prop up

656
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 4: actually like a Soviet leader, and they can sort of

657
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 4: extract resources from, extract influence from, and continue on with

658
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 4: our lives.

659
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 3: And the other point to that in that direction is

660
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 3: that it does seem like Biden is close to a

661
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 3: zero percent chance of winning, but people really hate Trump.

662
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 3: There is even a chance that, like a colmatosse, Biden

663
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 3: could somehow snatch a victory, and then you've got four

664
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 3: years of that concern, like, right now we have to

665
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 3: get through January.

666
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's a crazy bet to make.

667
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 3: Like the idea that you could that you're going to

668
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 3: just keep rolling those dice and keep playing the game.

669
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 3: By the way, the stiff arm line was really interesting

670
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 3: to me because at the June so the moment where

671
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 3: everything just completely broke from my wife was the Juneteenth Dance,

672
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 3: the freeze thing where she would I mean I think

673
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 3: she would kind of abandon him a while ago, but

674
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 3: she doesn't watch her so so I can talk about it.

675
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 3: Everybody would come over to the house. She'd show him this

676
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 3: video like you see the June team thing, and it's crazy,

677
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 3: It's like, what on what is going on here? And

678
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 3: without a medical background, like we don't know, we don't

679
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 3: know how to diagnose something like that. But knowing that

680
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 3: that is like a hallmark of kind of accelerated parkinsonism

681
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 3: or Parkinson's is it's like, oh, okay, now that's starting

682
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 3: to make sense because you could just tell that, like

683
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 3: there's something about the body movements it's off.

684
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,959
Speaker 7: That was just off, Yeah, and really powerful.

685
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 4: To look at clips of him from twenty twenty, and

686
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 4: I know we've talked about that. We showed it when

687
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 4: we were on with Krystal and Soccer Monday. The difference

688
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 4: between Biden and twenty twenty and Biden, I think was

689
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,239
Speaker 4: still bad. In twenty twenty. He was saying things that

690
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 4: made no sense. Occasionally, he was just losing words all

691
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 4: of those different things. And we know that this happens

692
00:33:55,680 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 4: over time, but he is so incredibly diminished, physically finished,

693
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 4: mentally diminished that the fact that he is currently running

694
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 4: to serve for president four more years is terrifying. But

695
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:09,959
Speaker 4: what's much more terrifying is that he is the current

696
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 4: president of the United States.

697
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 7: There are two hot wars, there's.

698
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 4: Brewing conflict all over the world, and the American people

699
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 4: are just losing confidence in all of their institutions. Rightfully,

700
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 4: so I think I don't think we should have institutional

701
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 4: confidence right now.

702
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 7: But this is the president of the United States. Who

703
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 7: is you know?

704
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,839
Speaker 4: Again, I think if people whose kids are serving overseas,

705
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 4: who are you know, the family of the people who

706
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 4: were killed in Jordan. I mean, this is immediate. It

707
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,720
Speaker 4: is not about an election. This is about something much deeper.

708
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 4: And this had happened they had doctor Pittson in light

709
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 4: of the story that Parkinson's expert had visited the White

710
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:49,919
Speaker 4: House some eight times I believe since twenty twenty two,

711
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 4: which we've talked about before. But this is now spiraling

712
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 4: into a cover up story because the White House is

713
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 4: saying they can't have that conversation about who he was

714
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,320
Speaker 4: there to visit because of medical privacy, which is actually

715
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:03,919
Speaker 4: a real thing. You can imagine though that they would

716
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 4: be less concerned about medical privacy if it was someone

717
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 4: other than the president. They would say it was a

718
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 4: low level staffer, et cetera, it was a family member,

719
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 4: et cetera. So that's another huge, huge concern for Biden,

720
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,359
Speaker 4: for Kamala Harris, for the hire Democratic Party going forward to.

721
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 3: And because this is such a degenerative condition and because

722
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:25,720
Speaker 3: we are seeing him decline in real time, there's actually

723
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 3: a way out of that cover up story. For Democrats,

724
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 3: that is a little bit less dishonest. It's still dishonest,

725
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,720
Speaker 3: but it's less dishonest, which which would be to say, Okay,

726
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,359
Speaker 3: look he got a lot worse. Yeah, and which we've

727
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 3: heard some people say we weren't and it does look

728
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 3: like he got worse. Now you can then argue, well,

729
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,239
Speaker 3: we think he was actually already bad enough, say a

730
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 3: year ago, that you should have seen this coming. But

731
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,720
Speaker 3: then then you're in a different debate. You could say, Okay,

732
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,879
Speaker 3: he's stepping aside because his condition has degenerated so much.

733
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 3: But either way, the media is just going to keep

734
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 3: hammering at him. Here's Jake Tapper with a pretty brutal

735
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:02,800
Speaker 3: little segment.

736
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 10: In reality, seventy of voters say that they believe President

737
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 10: Biden is too old. That's according to CNN's most recent pulling.

738
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,760
Speaker 10: Voters have been saying this for quite a long time.

739
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 10: The reality is that the Democratic elites are mostly late

740
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 10: to acknowledge these age and ability issues compared to the

741
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,320
Speaker 10: rest of the public. The elites have been forced to

742
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 10: reckon with it after the debate just eleven days ago.

743
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 8: Book of my career have not had many of those nights.

744
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 8: It was a terrible night, and I really regret it happened.

745
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 8: But the fact of the matter is, how can you

746
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,319
Speaker 8: assure you're going to be on you know, fate back

747
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,720
Speaker 8: and intervening on your way to go to you know.

748
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 13: Work tomorrow.

749
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 8: Age, Wasn't you know the idea I'm too old?

750
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 10: The fact of the matter is, how can you assure

751
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,839
Speaker 10: you're going to be out on you know, on your

752
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,359
Speaker 10: way to go, you know work tomorrow? Age, Age, wasn't

753
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,799
Speaker 10: you know the idea that I'm too old? Keep in

754
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 10: mind that sounds like it's supposed to be reassuring to

755
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 10: those Democratic supporters who have gone wildly.

756
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 3: Many Democratic officials with.

757
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 10: Whom I've spoken are worried the president. Biden and his

758
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 10: family and his inner circle appear to be in complete denial,

759
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 10: not just about whatever might be wrong with him, but

760
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,760
Speaker 10: the state of his candidacy right now.

761
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 7: So credit words due.

762
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 4: I always find it insufferable when Jake Tapper, you know

763
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 4: that quote from Joe Biden that he just wrote off

764
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 4: from the Morning Joe interview. You could have done that

765
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 4: one year ago. You could have done that with Biden

766
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:36,399
Speaker 4: quotes two years ago.

767
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 3: You did basically, we did.

768
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 7: Absolutely we did.

769
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 4: And so the sanctimonious the adaptation of this or the

770
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 4: adoption of the sanctimonious posturing now is grating, I think.

771
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 7: And that clip was circulating.

772
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:53,439
Speaker 3: Us TODAYE say later about good point, the evolution here

773
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 3: at his old network.

774
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 16: It's a great point, good friend, I'm sure they're buddies.

775
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 16: I'm sure they are sure they had tensions too, though,

776
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 16: I'm sure I believe that. But the back padding on

777
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 16: that was frustrating. It's been frustrating the medium more broadly,

778
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 16: which we'll talk about later in the show.

779
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,799
Speaker 4: Most importantly, for as Biden is concerned, though, this is

780
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 4: not going away, because that is a hard stance. That

781
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 4: is a hard line for Jake Tapper, a CNN anchor,

782
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 4: to get out there with. Right now, he's not going

783
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 4: to walk that back. If Biden has a good week,

784
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 4: Nobody is walking this back. If Biden does a good

785
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 4: press conference the next day, they'll say Biden did a

786
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 4: good press conference. But they're not gonna be like, ah,

787
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 4: I was wrong again, throw it all away. This guy's

788
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 4: clearly fine. It's not happening.

789
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 7: No, it's not happening.

790
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 4: All right, Let's move on Ryan to the polling that

791
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 4: we have been hyping up because it's so important here

792
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 4: at Capitol Hill. The now that everybody's returned, all anybody

793
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 4: is talking about is they're reading the numbers, they're reading

794
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 4: the tea leaves.

795
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 7: So first up, this is new.

796
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 4: Polling from a Democratic firmal throw the element up on

797
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 4: the screen. Ben Dixon and Amandi Ink they did a

798
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 4: poll that found Kamala Harris actually would edge out Donald

799
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 4: Trump in a match up forty two to forty one percent.

800
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:04,800
Speaker 4: Now take that with a giant grain of salt, because

801
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 4: the margin of errors plus or minus three point one

802
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,719
Speaker 4: percentage points, so it's within the margin of error. That's

803
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 4: a very close matchup. Though, I think the undecided in

804
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 4: the polling is pretty interesting. They're actually twelve percent. That's

805
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:19,880
Speaker 4: a big number, and one point four percent for a

806
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 4: third party candidate. Potentially, that is going to be powerful.

807
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:26,919
Speaker 4: That is going to be a powerful argument. It's going

808
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:30,320
Speaker 4: to make the conversation about the carvil John Stewart Ryan

809
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 4: Groom proposal interesting if polling starts to find Kamala Harris

810
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 4: doing really well, which as as silly and online as

811
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:42,479
Speaker 4: the coconut pill thing seems, what's online is obviously very real.

812
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:44,320
Speaker 7: Those memes are very real.

813
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:46,799
Speaker 4: And if there can be this like sort of pop

814
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 4: cultural embrace of Kamala Harris as the normal alternative to

815
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 4: Joe Biden, somebody who can at least string sentences together,

816
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 4: I won't be surprised if she starts pulling better than

817
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 4: she would have had this crisis not, you know, come

818
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:03,040
Speaker 4: out publicly.

819
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 3: What makes me nervous for Democrats is that she will,

820
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 3: I agree, and then they will use that to say, Look,

821
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 3: if you look Gretchen Whitmer or JB. Prisker news they're

822
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 3: all within a couple of points. She's the duly elected

823
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 3: vice president. Let's not have a let's not have an

824
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 3: open convention, let's just nominate her. But I think that

825
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 3: that misunderstands the kind of flimsy nature of the and

826
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 3: how soft those numbers are.

827
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 4: Yep, and Gretchen Whitmer had this poll as you just

828
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 4: alluded to, as Gretchen Whitmer losing to Trump thirty six

829
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 4: to forty, Gavin Newsom losing to Trump thirty seven to forty,

830
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 4: again in the margin vers plus or minus three percentage points.

831
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 4: So we don't know really where that stands to be honest.

832
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 4: But Gavin Newsome, you have fifteen percent undecided, and that

833
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 4: Gavin Newsom matchups, that's twelve percent with Kamala Harris, seventeen

834
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 4: percent undecided in the case of Gretchen Whitmer. And those

835
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,839
Speaker 4: are important numbers too, obviously, because even Trump support THEIRS

836
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,839
Speaker 4: at forty uh forty is.

837
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:03,840
Speaker 7: Not a high number.

838
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:08,240
Speaker 4: So that's a there's a lot of room for everybody

839
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 4: in that potential matchup. Meanwhile, that question of what a

840
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 4: primary should look like was put to polling as well

841
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 4: by a welcome pack, and we can put this next

842
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 4: element up on the screen. This is the preferences of

843
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 4: Democratic voters. Jon Favreau tweeted, our survey reveals, this is

844
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 4: an excerpt, a clear preference among Democratic primary voters. They

845
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:32,239
Speaker 4: favor allowing convention delegates to select a new nominee they

846
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 4: believe to be electable over President Biden remaining on the

847
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 4: ballot by a solid fifty five to forty margin. And

848
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 4: that's just as of right now, fifty five to forty margin,

849
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 4: which is, you know, pretty overwhelming.

850
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, And the next point there exactly incredible. So in

851
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 3: the event that they step in the event that there

852
00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 3: is that he does step down, they favor by an

853
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,360
Speaker 3: overwhelming majority, like two to one, sixty four to twenty

854
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:07,880
Speaker 3: something that they want an open primary. And in Washington,

855
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 3: the idea Okay, James Carville, good for him stepping out.

856
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 3: But James Carville like he's willing to like say crazy stuff,

857
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:17,840
Speaker 3: like that's his brand, the hat, and he's kooky. But

858
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 3: in general, in Washington, like the idea of an open

859
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 3: convention is still considered something that is kind of outside

860
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 3: of the bounds of respectable discourse, Like that is just

861
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 3: a little silly, like it's cute, It's like, what are

862
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 3: you talking about. It's neat that we would do that,

863
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:40,319
Speaker 3: But no, we're not actually doing a democratic process. We're

864
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 3: going to just give it to Kamala Harris is the

865
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 3: That is the assumption inside Washington. But fewer than a

866
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 3: quarter of Democrats want that to happen. So if you

867
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:53,240
Speaker 3: anoint a candidate who has not been blasted yet by Trump,

868
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,360
Speaker 3: who's calling her laughing Kamala. By the way, did you

869
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 3: see that that's his name for her.

870
00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 7: Now, laughing Comala.

871
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 3: I couldn't help laughing when it's that. So this is

872
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:05,319
Speaker 3: before Trump has come at laughing Kamala and you're going

873
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 3: to anoint her as the VP after you've suffered this

874
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 3: massive legitimacy crisis, because you've been covering up this degenerative

875
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:17,759
Speaker 3: condition that your presumptive nominee had, and you think that

876
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,760
Speaker 3: you have enough credit with the public to then crown

877
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 3: the next person when fewer than a quarter of your

878
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 3: own voters say, do not do that. And if she

879
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:32,719
Speaker 3: wins it in an open convention, great fine, wonderful, she

880
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:36,399
Speaker 3: then is tested like she has shown that she earned it,

881
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 3: because we still believe in this country in the meritocracy,

882
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 3: whether or not it exists or not, we believe it

883
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 3: like we want it to exist, like we want our

884
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 3: elites to have earned their place there. And to the

885
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 3: extent that they haven't, we hate it when we resent it.

886
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:00,760
Speaker 3: Good for us, It's like the best thing out our culture,

887
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 3: and so to go against that is just asking to

888
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 3: get annihilated.

889
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:09,799
Speaker 4: I think people are also forgetting how dangerous it'll be

890
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 4: for Kamala Harris that she was serving under Joe Biden.

891
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,320
Speaker 4: Defending Joe Biden. She has been a slaunch defender of

892
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:16,800
Speaker 4: Joe Biden since the debate.

893
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 3: Obviously, that's it's not gonna go away. Now the last

894
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 3: two months of just be about why were you willing

895
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 3: to do that? Right?

896
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:28,400
Speaker 4: And who knows what plausible and Trump will bring that

897
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 4: up constantly, and you know, who knows what plausible deniability

898
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:33,800
Speaker 4: she has on these questions of doctors visiting the White House.

899
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 4: It's probably a lot like vip as. This election cycle

900
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:39,919
Speaker 4: has been basically ripped straight from the script of VIP

901
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:42,760
Speaker 4: And they were intentionally keeping her in the dark because

902
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:44,240
Speaker 4: it is the vice president.

903
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:48,800
Speaker 7: Uh, they don't take that office too seriously. President.

904
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 3: The vice president means.

905
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 7: I go and get ice cream with people on camera.

906
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 7: That's my job.

907
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 3: I can't even get in the White House like I've

908
00:44:57,719 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 3: got my own. I don't know about ask my office

909
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 3: is a loss the street, Yeah, my my leg she

910
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 3: lives up on Massachusetts Avenue not even so, Yeah, I'm

911
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 3: totally clueless. Go with that.

912
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 4: Yes, and so the RCP average I think is worth

913
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 4: looking at here. I just pulled it up since the debate,

914
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 4: Trump's margin in both the five way matchup and the

915
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:24,800
Speaker 4: two way matchup. So five way includes the third party

916
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 4: candidates Cornell West, Jill Stein, RFK Junior, it's his margin.

917
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 4: Trump's margin has basically doubled over Biden since the debate

918
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 4: in both the two way matchup and in the five

919
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 4: way matchup, So that's just since the debate. In the

920
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:40,800
Speaker 4: two way matchup, donald Trump's number is actually at forty

921
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:44,320
Speaker 4: seven percent, which is high for Donald Trump. In the

922
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:47,280
Speaker 4: five way matchup, it goes down to forty two percent roughly,

923
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 4: but his margin either way, the difference between where he

924
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 4: is and where Biden is has basically doubled in both

925
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:55,320
Speaker 4: of those since the debate.

926
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 3: But what has Biden hanging in is five thirty eight.

927
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 7: Basically, what's five thirty eight.

928
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 3: Five thirty eight is still at a right like right now,

929
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,720
Speaker 3: they're at a fifty two percent for Trump and forty

930
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 3: eight percent like in the simulation, like they run one

931
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 3: hundred simulations, fifty two times Trump wins and forty eight

932
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 3: times Biden wins. So five thirty eight and meet you.

933
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 3: Melhorn is going to make a big deal of this,

934
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 3: I think in his debate with Jink that we're going

935
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 3: to host later this week, five point thirty eight is

936
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 3: still talking about this race as as a toss up,

937
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 3: even as the approval rating is now at according to

938
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 3: five thirty eight, thirty seven point four percent.

939
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:34,880
Speaker 4: There are This is a Wall Street Journal poll, in

940
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 4: New York Times poll, there's a CNN poll that we're

941
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 4: taking sense of the debate that have Donald Trump up

942
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 4: six points in a two way matchup over Biden. There

943
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 4: are some that just have them about two, some that

944
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 4: have them three. But given those fairly reputable polling firms

945
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:52,319
Speaker 4: that have these six point margins, and honestly, I think

946
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 4: it's only gotten worse since the Doors Stephanopolis interview. That's debatable,

947
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 4: but I think it'll probably bear out in the polling.

948
00:46:58,920 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 7: That as we go forward.

949
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 4: I mean, this is untenable, and you see, good for

950
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 4: good for the American people for expressing, you know, even

951
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 4: the even I actually understand the argument a lot of

952
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 4: people are making about lowercase democracy because I saw it

953
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:17,720
Speaker 4: from the right. I saw the flight ninety three election

954
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 4: argument from the right for a long time that the

955
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 4: sort of existential nature of all of this. But I

956
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 4: think the more that there's exposure to plausible alternatives, open

957
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 4: convention what it would look like, the more we can

958
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 4: visualize it. I actually think that that doesn't help Biden

959
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 4: in the numbers, because people say, well, it's not such

960
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 4: a scramble.

961
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 7: There's something that we can do.

962
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:40,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, And speaking of George Stephan novels, he if people

963
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:43,720
Speaker 3: missed it, he was confronted on the street by somebody

964
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 3: who happened to be recording and like holding their phone

965
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 3: down and asked them about the interview and asked them

966
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 3: if Biden could be present for four more years, and

967
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 3: Stephan opposite, No, I don't think he could, yep. And

968
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 3: he confirmed that it was him that said it, and

969
00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 3: he said he regretted. You know, as a journalist, he

970
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 3: should not have said that, but it's not exactly surprising.

971
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:04,280
Speaker 4: George Venados and James Carvell.

972
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,760
Speaker 3: Thanks true the people spoways from the documentary of nineteen

973
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 3: ninety two. Yeah, So anyway, up next an incredible story

974
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 3: about the weaponization of charges of anti semitism against labor unions.

975
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:21,240
Speaker 3: Stick around for that, all right. I'll have more reporting

976
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 3: about this later at dropsitenews dot com, but for now.

977
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 3: Republicans in the House yesterday convene to hearing with the

978
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 3: headline confronting union antisemitism, Protecting workers from big labor abuses.

979
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 3: Here's Chairman Bob Good at the top of it.

980
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:41,239
Speaker 17: Today's hearing will examine the ways in which unions put

981
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:46,400
Speaker 17: politics over people through the lens of rampant union a

982
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 17: high semitism.

983
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 3: All right, good topic, let's hear the bill of particulars.

984
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 3: What's the rampant anti semitism.

985
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 17: Additionally, the response by union leaders to the October seven

986
00:48:56,120 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 17: Hamas terrorist attacks on Israel have exposed yet an another

987
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:04,360
Speaker 17: way that unions are beholden to the radical left instead

988
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 17: of to the workers they claim to represent.

989
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:10,320
Speaker 3: So yes, this hearing was actually about the war on Gaza,

990
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:13,399
Speaker 3: but it gets a lot crazier than just that. Now

991
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:16,720
Speaker 3: here's the background and some news too. On December first,

992
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 3: the UAW officially called for a ceasefire in Israel, explaining,

993
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 3: as one union leader put it, from opposing fascism in

994
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 3: World War Two to mobilizing against apartheid South Africa and

995
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 3: the Contra War, the UAW has consistently stood for justice

996
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,759
Speaker 3: across the globe. That's why I am proud that the

997
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:41,600
Speaker 3: UAW International is today officially calling for a ceasefire in

998
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 3: Israel and Palestine. The Executive Board also voted to form

999
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:48,920
Speaker 3: a Quote, Divestment and Just Transition Working Group to study

1000
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 3: the history of Israel and Palestine, the union's economic ties

1001
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 3: to the conflict and to explore how to achieve a

1002
00:49:55,800 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 3: just transition for US workers from war to now. That

1003
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 3: move did not sit well with supporters of the war.

1004
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 3: The bad news for the UAW is that one of

1005
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:12,560
Speaker 3: those war supporters happens to beat Neil Barofsky, who, as

1006
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:15,239
Speaker 3: bad luck would have it for those workers, is a

1007
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 3: federally appointed monitor overseeing a UAW consent decree reached with

1008
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:25,080
Speaker 3: the Department of Justice. Barofsky has immense power over the

1009
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 3: UAW because of the fallout of previous corruption scandals which

1010
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 3: landed two UAW presidents in prison. Now, recently we covered

1011
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 3: the surprising development that now Fane himself is under investigation

1012
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 3: by the monitor Barofsky, who opened a wide probe and

1013
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 3: was demanding enormous amounts of documents all of a sudden. Now,

1014
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 3: I noted at the time that it didn't make sense

1015
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 3: on its face, but more pieces of the puzzle are

1016
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 3: starting to come together. Now this is going to sound crazy,

1017
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 3: but what I'm about the report is actually backed up

1018
00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:01,359
Speaker 3: by a trail of evidence. Here's what's happening. The DOJ's

1019
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 3: monitor overseeing the UAW is a fierce and outspoken supporter

1020
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:10,640
Speaker 3: of Israel. And he is retaliating against UAW President Sean Fain.

1021
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 3: After Fane refused to back off the call for a ceasefire,

1022
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:18,279
Speaker 3: told you would sound crazy, but here's what we know

1023
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:23,720
Speaker 3: for sure. So after the ceasefire announcement, Barrowsky, the DOJ Monitor,

1024
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 3: personally lobbied Fane to retract it. Then in February he

1025
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:32,360
Speaker 3: lobbied the entire executive board of the union. So this

1026
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 3: nugget was first reported last week by the Detroit News,

1027
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 3: buried in an article under the headline uaw's court filing

1028
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:44,840
Speaker 3: highlights tension with federal Monitor. Indeed it did so. The

1029
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:47,360
Speaker 3: paper got a copy of an email sent on February

1030
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,880
Speaker 3: nineteenth by Benjamin Dickter, an attorney for the union, to

1031
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 3: Neil Barofsky the Monitor. I also reviewed a copy of

1032
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 3: that email. It reads in part. On November thirtieth, twenty

1033
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 3: twenty three, the IEB, the democratically elected governing body of

1034
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:05,880
Speaker 3: the UAW, debated whether and what position the UAW should

1035
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 3: take on the crisis in Gaza. This position, statement calling

1036
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 3: for a ceasefire, was announced the next day and released

1037
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 3: to the press soon thereafter. You called President Fine and

1038
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:18,279
Speaker 3: introduced your conversation with President Fane as one that was

1039
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:21,759
Speaker 3: quote strictly on a personal level, during which time you

1040
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 3: shared with President Fane your personal concerns about the union's

1041
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:28,920
Speaker 3: position on the crisis in Gaza. Your call to President

1042
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:32,240
Speaker 3: Fine on an issue so blatantly outside of the Monitor's

1043
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 3: jurisdiction was inappropriate, as your office holds disproportionate power over

1044
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 3: the UAW, and even a quote strictly personal sharing of

1045
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 3: opinion implicitly implicates such power dynamic. Nonetheless, out of respect

1046
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:47,439
Speaker 3: for you in the Office of the Monitor, President Fain

1047
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:50,680
Speaker 3: discussed the conversation with only those in his inner circle

1048
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 3: and chose not to escalate the improper exchange any further.

1049
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 3: On February eleventh, twenty twenty four, your office received a

1050
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:02,440
Speaker 3: communication from the Anti Defamation League ADL that also complained

1051
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 3: about the union's demand for a ceasefire in Gaza and

1052
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:08,719
Speaker 3: in particularly actions of Local seven nine zero two in

1053
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:12,240
Speaker 3: support of same. Instead of doing what your office should

1054
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:14,799
Speaker 3: have done, which is to simply have advised that the

1055
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 3: issue was outside of its jurisdiction and provide the communication

1056
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 3: to the uaw's compliance officer, your office took two inappropriate

1057
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:27,240
Speaker 3: steps well outside its jurisdiction. Now I have an extra

1058
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 3: detail to add to this. The call from Bowsky came

1059
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 3: the night before Fain was scheduled to join a press

1060
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 3: conference the next morning of Thursday, December fourteenth on Capitol

1061
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 3: Hill joining members of Congress in calling for a ceasefire.

1062
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 3: That a federal court monitor would think it was remotely

1063
00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:50,120
Speaker 3: appropriate to try to stop that event from happening is

1064
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:57,279
Speaker 3: totally extraordinary. That is absolutely nowhere within his court appointed power. Now,

1065
00:53:57,320 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 3: as for the two inappropriate things Borowsky did after get

1066
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 3: getting that ADL letter, the first wrong step was writing

1067
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:06,399
Speaker 3: back to the ADL saying they had expressed quote, very

1068
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 3: serious concerns that he would personally bring to the UAW Board,

1069
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:13,720
Speaker 3: even though he acknowledged at the time it was outside

1070
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:17,560
Speaker 3: the scope of his power. The second inappropriate step was

1071
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:21,080
Speaker 3: to personally write to the board, pressuring them on the

1072
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:26,399
Speaker 3: Gaza question. Barofsky wrote on February fifteenth. Attached and below

1073
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 3: is a communication sent to the Monitor's hotline by the

1074
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:33,279
Speaker 3: ADL regarding a statement issued by Local seven nine oh two.

1075
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:36,680
Speaker 3: Although this issue was outside of the monitor's jurisdiction, we

1076
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 3: thought it was important to forward the message to the

1077
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:43,359
Speaker 3: IEB given the serious concerns raised here for what it's worth,

1078
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:47,479
Speaker 3: As I previously shared with Sean, similar concerns were raised

1079
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 3: directly to me shortly after the IEB issued its own

1080
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:54,560
Speaker 3: ceasefire statement. I am also attaching the local seven nine

1081
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 3: oh two president's response. The UAW lawyer responded to Barrowsky

1082
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:03,279
Speaker 3: on Friday, February twenty third with the email I'm reading

1083
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 3: from now. The monitor was appointed in twenty twenty one

1084
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:11,520
Speaker 3: by Federal District Court Judge David M. Lawson. I reached

1085
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:14,880
Speaker 3: out to Lawson's chambers for comment after business hours yesterday

1086
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:17,480
Speaker 3: and will follow up today and we'll report back with

1087
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:18,319
Speaker 3: anything we hear.

1088
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 18: So.

1089
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 3: On February twenty ninth, just a few days after the

1090
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:26,440
Speaker 3: UAW sent its letter to Barofsky complaining about his improper lobbying,

1091
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:31,760
Speaker 3: Borofsky sent the UAW a sweeping demand for documents, saying

1092
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 3: he was opening an investigation into Fane over a dispute

1093
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:39,399
Speaker 3: Feine had with the Secretary Treasurer. That letter was made

1094
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 3: public in a court filing Borofsky made on Tuesday. He

1095
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 3: also asked for a quote and listened to this any

1096
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:50,240
Speaker 3: and all emails, text messages, and instant messages sent between

1097
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:53,960
Speaker 3: any one or more of the following individuals, or between

1098
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:57,160
Speaker 3: any one of the individuals below and any other UAW

1099
00:55:57,239 --> 00:56:01,280
Speaker 3: personnel from the date range of February Ruary twelfth, twenty

1100
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:06,040
Speaker 3: twenty four through February twenty third, twenty twenty four. He

1101
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 3: included in the list Fame, his top deputies, and Feanne's lawyers.

1102
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:14,440
Speaker 3: That covers pretty much the exact time the UAW and

1103
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:19,920
Speaker 3: Borrovsky were jockeying over the ADL complaint involving their involving

1104
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:24,600
Speaker 3: their call for a ceasefire. Borrovsky has only upped the

1105
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:28,200
Speaker 3: attack on Faine since then. The Wall Street Journal reported

1106
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:33,000
Speaker 3: yesterday quote, a federal watchdog appointed to monitor the United

1107
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:36,920
Speaker 3: Auto Workers internal operations is probing new allegations against President

1108
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:40,680
Speaker 3: Sean Fain, including that he made demands to benefit his

1109
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:45,960
Speaker 3: domestic partner and her sister, according to a court filing Monday.

1110
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:51,040
Speaker 3: Except that's not exactly accurate. The actual complaint was made

1111
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:55,040
Speaker 3: by Rich Boyer, who Faine ousted from his job. It's

1112
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:58,600
Speaker 3: included in an exhibit attached to the Barovsky court filing.

1113
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 3: Follow this closely. Boyer, in his complaint says, quote, I

1114
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:07,480
Speaker 3: submit that brother Fane's May twenty ninth, twenty twenty four

1115
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:11,799
Speaker 3: reassignment action. Basically, his firing was void in that it

1116
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:15,360
Speaker 3: was taken by Brother Fane in retaliation for my refusal

1117
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:19,000
Speaker 3: to accede to demands by Brother Fane and his agents

1118
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:23,480
Speaker 3: that I take actions involving this Stlantis assignment that would

1119
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:27,640
Speaker 3: have benefited Brother Fane's domestic partner and her sister, and

1120
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:32,080
Speaker 3: that would have violated the UAW Ethical Practices Codes, Financial Practices,

1121
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 3: and or the UAW agreed to consent decree entered by

1122
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 3: the United States justic Court for the Eastern District of

1123
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:42,480
Speaker 3: Michigan unquote. So that's from Boyer's complaint. Now, the difference

1124
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:46,960
Speaker 3: between to benefit as the journal described it, and would

1125
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:50,800
Speaker 3: have benefited is not just grammatical. The details of what

1126
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 3: happened aren't known yet. But if Faine pushed for a

1127
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:58,520
Speaker 3: broad policy or negotiation tactic that would have benefited many people,

1128
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:02,400
Speaker 3: and among those are his partner and his sister, that's

1129
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:06,480
Speaker 3: different than Fain asking for specific favors for his partner

1130
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:10,000
Speaker 3: and his sister. But hey, look, maybe Neil Barofsky is

1131
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:12,600
Speaker 3: really onto something here and he's got feine on this one.

1132
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:16,480
Speaker 3: But given that he has so flagrantly violated his mandate,

1133
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 3: it's hard to merely take his word for it. And

1134
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:26,680
Speaker 3: so Emily, it's a pretty extraordinary series of events going

1135
00:58:26,720 --> 00:58:28,400
Speaker 3: on here. And there's kind of two things that we

1136
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:31,160
Speaker 3: could talk about here. One is the question of whether

1137
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:34,240
Speaker 3: the UAW should weigh in at all on the Israel

1138
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:38,160
Speaker 3: Palestine conflict, and that's a live debate that has had

1139
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 3: inside the Union and outside the Union, and the Republicans

1140
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:44,200
Speaker 3: at the hearing had a very firm position on that.

1141
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:46,520
Speaker 7: It's a hugely important question for the UAW.

1142
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 3: The other question is should a court appointed federal monitor, yeah,

1143
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:55,480
Speaker 3: be going in and telling the UAW you know, what

1144
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 3: it can and can't do when it comes to political issues.

1145
00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:03,000
Speaker 3: And that is quite clearly, you know, it's not even

1146
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:03,640
Speaker 3: a gray area.

1147
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:05,880
Speaker 4: And I have thoughts on both of those, just really quickly.

1148
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:07,480
Speaker 4: On the first one, it is true if you look

1149
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 4: at polling that one of the reasons, especially you know,

1150
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:15,360
Speaker 4: those kind of blue collar, working class Obama Trump voter

1151
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:19,720
Speaker 4: type demographic, why they resist organized labor right now. And

1152
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:23,520
Speaker 4: the UAW, obviously this is significant for them because they're

1153
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:26,320
Speaker 4: coming out of this massive years long corruption scandal and

1154
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:28,320
Speaker 4: Sean Fayne was supposed to be the beginning of flight

1155
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:30,720
Speaker 4: and so they're sensitive, as they should be to this

1156
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:34,240
Speaker 4: right now. But one of the big reasons is they

1157
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 4: don't want to contribute to basically political, overly political organizations.

1158
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:41,600
Speaker 4: They just want to be represented. They want their interests

1159
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:42,760
Speaker 4: as workers to be represented.

1160
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 3: That's what they want to pay for. They want, you know,

1161
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 3: better scheduling, right, better healthcare.

1162
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:51,920
Speaker 4: Which clashes with the increasing membership from grad students and

1163
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:55,880
Speaker 4: all of those sort of more white collar journalists, all

1164
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:58,600
Speaker 4: those groups, but also has always there's always been tension

1165
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:05,240
Speaker 4: between the idiot logical, sort of Marxist organized labor internationalist

1166
01:00:05,360 --> 01:00:08,200
Speaker 4: perspective and people outside of that. So I think it's

1167
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:10,600
Speaker 4: it's an important and interesting question for the ua W.

1168
01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:14,720
Speaker 4: The Neil Barofsky part of this, I'm so curious to

1169
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:17,919
Speaker 4: talk more about with you because we mentioned this when

1170
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:20,320
Speaker 4: that Detroit News story first broke. Not a lot of

1171
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:22,800
Speaker 4: coverage of it at the time because it's such a

1172
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:28,520
Speaker 4: weird story. But Neil Barofsky, he's sort of known in

1173
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:33,240
Speaker 4: media circles for what he did in two thousand and eight.

1174
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:38,080
Speaker 4: He's kind of a leftist, he's sort of adjacent almost

1175
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:39,720
Speaker 4: right to leftist circles.

1176
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:42,200
Speaker 3: Because of that, he was basically a strong ally of

1177
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:47,560
Speaker 3: Elizabeth Warren adoring the Wall Street bailout. Was he was

1178
01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:51,200
Speaker 3: in a similar role to this where he was kind

1179
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:55,959
Speaker 3: of the independent monitor of the Wall Street funds at Treasury, right,

1180
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 3: and the bankers actually and how the Treasury was handling them, yeah, right,

1181
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:03,400
Speaker 3: And so basically the monitor the bailout, and the banks

1182
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 3: hated him. And I remember writing lots of great stories

1183
01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:08,320
Speaker 3: about Neil Borrowsky. This is not this is not to

1184
01:01:08,360 --> 01:01:10,280
Speaker 3: say that Neil Borrowski is like a bad dude or anything.

1185
01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:11,160
Speaker 7: It's just so interesting.

1186
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:15,640
Speaker 3: It is very interesting, but it's just it's just wildly

1187
01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:19,760
Speaker 3: outside of his scope to be called. Also, there's no

1188
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:21,920
Speaker 3: such thing. We were talking with producer Mac about this

1189
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:24,360
Speaker 3: before the show. There's no such thing as a personal

1190
01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:27,240
Speaker 3: call from your boss like that. Like, this is a

1191
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:31,680
Speaker 3: guy who has access to like the entire communications of

1192
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:35,840
Speaker 3: the UAW and has this vast, unchecked, court appointed power

1193
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:38,800
Speaker 3: over the UAW. So when he calls the night before

1194
01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:42,040
Speaker 3: you're about to have a press conference with Corey Bush

1195
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:45,320
Speaker 3: and and Brocan and others calling for a ceasefire, and

1196
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:46,880
Speaker 3: he says you know, I don't think you should do

1197
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:53,080
Speaker 3: this just personally, just between friends, you know, do what

1198
01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:56,320
Speaker 3: you want to do. It's impossible to be on the

1199
01:01:56,360 --> 01:01:59,360
Speaker 3: receiving end of that call and not have the power

1200
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:02,240
Speaker 3: dynamic in located, as the lawyer said, and he went

1201
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:07,000
Speaker 3: ahead with it anyway, And then for him two months

1202
01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:10,280
Speaker 3: later to then forward on the ADL letter to the

1203
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:13,440
Speaker 3: executive Board mentioned the call that he had, so it

1204
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:15,479
Speaker 3: confirms it, so we don't have to take Fane's word

1205
01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:20,000
Speaker 3: for it and say that it's raising very serious concerns.

1206
01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:25,560
Speaker 3: And then just weeks later opened this fairly trivial investigation

1207
01:02:25,680 --> 01:02:28,720
Speaker 3: into what is a dispute between the President and the

1208
01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:34,520
Speaker 3: Secretary treasure over organizing tactics, and any dispute between Faine

1209
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:39,000
Speaker 3: and others inside the union right now over organizing tactics,

1210
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:42,560
Speaker 3: to me, ought to be decided in Faye's favor because

1211
01:02:42,600 --> 01:02:46,400
Speaker 3: Faine is out there like delivering historic gains for workers,

1212
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:50,040
Speaker 3: that's his job. He's getting massive contracts. Just this week,

1213
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:55,400
Speaker 3: the Lehigh Valley BMW workers won a massive new contract,

1214
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 3: like thirty three percent raises, like eleven percent instant raises,

1215
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:01,280
Speaker 3: Like he's the living for workers in a way that

1216
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:04,400
Speaker 3: like no u a W president has before. So if

1217
01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:06,479
Speaker 3: he was beefing with somebody internally saying that they weren't

1218
01:03:06,520 --> 01:03:09,680
Speaker 3: doing a good enough job, like he's the guy delivering.

1219
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:12,640
Speaker 4: And why is Borovsky? Why do you what is your

1220
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:14,920
Speaker 4: explanation for why Borofsky is carrying that torch?

1221
01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:15,959
Speaker 7: Uh?

1222
01:03:16,040 --> 01:03:19,680
Speaker 3: I mean Borofsky has long been an outspoken supporter of Israel.

1223
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:21,680
Speaker 7: It's just an ideological show.

1224
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:25,160
Speaker 3: I think it's just he he was shocked in appalled

1225
01:03:25,200 --> 01:03:28,200
Speaker 3: that the UAW would weigh in like this. So at

1226
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:31,640
Speaker 3: the hearing yesterday, Uh, there was. It was largely focused

1227
01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:35,840
Speaker 3: on a UAW local so this is now a coordinated attack. Uh.

1228
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:38,680
Speaker 3: And and to your point, it was more white collar

1229
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:42,800
Speaker 3: the public interest lawyers who had you know, we're doing

1230
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:47,240
Speaker 3: some organizing for the ceasefire resolution and the interesting the

1231
01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:51,280
Speaker 3: union basically of public interest lawyers. But at the same time,

1232
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:53,640
Speaker 3: as the lawyer reminded Barofsky in that email, and I'll

1233
01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:56,560
Speaker 3: publish the full email at drop site news dot com

1234
01:03:56,640 --> 01:04:01,640
Speaker 3: later today, as the lawyer reminded bar the UAW has

1235
01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:05,640
Speaker 3: a very very long tradition of engaging in this sort

1236
01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:08,760
Speaker 3: of political activity. O course, not just aparth tides However,

1237
01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:12,919
Speaker 3: the Job March of Jobs for Justice, Martin Luther King's

1238
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:17,200
Speaker 3: March on Washington was completely financed basically by the UAW.

1239
01:04:17,600 --> 01:04:21,280
Speaker 3: And if you go back and look at photos from

1240
01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:24,800
Speaker 3: that march on Washington, you'll see UAW signs everywhere. And

1241
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:28,480
Speaker 3: it's all about wages and freedom and the linking of

1242
01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:32,280
Speaker 3: those two things together. And nobody would say that the

1243
01:04:32,360 --> 01:04:36,160
Speaker 3: UAW was wrong to do that, because the civil rights

1244
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:39,440
Speaker 3: movement was a boon to its members, Like even just

1245
01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:43,280
Speaker 3: from a narrow discreet if you don't even want to

1246
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:45,919
Speaker 3: say it's the moral thing to do, from a narrow

1247
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:49,720
Speaker 3: discreete member benefit thing, it was better to pass the

1248
01:04:49,760 --> 01:04:53,480
Speaker 3: Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act for its members.

1249
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:58,240
Speaker 4: And the Republicans, and that hearing. So that was Bob Good,

1250
01:04:58,280 --> 01:05:01,400
Speaker 4: who actually has election results have been certified that his

1251
01:05:01,640 --> 01:05:05,280
Speaker 4: opponent won in the last just today.

1252
01:05:05,480 --> 01:05:07,880
Speaker 3: He had he had Trump support, right, but this was

1253
01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:10,040
Speaker 3: a big the opponent had Trump support. The opponent had

1254
01:05:10,080 --> 01:05:10,680
Speaker 3: Trump support.

1255
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:14,080
Speaker 7: Santas, Yeah, he's freedom corgress guy.

1256
01:05:14,320 --> 01:05:16,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. I knew that. I knew that he was caught

1257
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:18,200
Speaker 3: up in that in that drama, and.

1258
01:05:18,120 --> 01:05:19,560
Speaker 7: He had voted to aust McCarthy.

1259
01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:22,840
Speaker 4: So it was a McCarthy revenge endorsement on the other side.

1260
01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:26,520
Speaker 4: But Republicans are increasingly aware that there's a divide they

1261
01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:30,200
Speaker 4: can exploit, and if they do it successfully, they can

1262
01:05:30,720 --> 01:05:34,000
Speaker 4: sort of, on the one hand, undercut organized labor while

1263
01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:37,840
Speaker 4: also bringing people over to Donald Trump. That's the calculation

1264
01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:40,480
Speaker 4: in their head, or bring people over to the Republican Party. Now,

1265
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:44,080
Speaker 4: whether people actually start voting Republican beyond Donald Trump is

1266
01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:47,120
Speaker 4: a huge open question because guess what, John Fetterman won

1267
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:51,200
Speaker 4: the Pennsylvania Senate seat. Tammy Baldwin doing great in Wisconsin.

1268
01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:52,440
Speaker 7: Uh there, you know.

1269
01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:55,439
Speaker 4: Whether that's durable beyond just Donald Trump is a huge

1270
01:05:55,440 --> 01:05:59,280
Speaker 4: open question, And that's why you see this interest, this

1271
01:05:59,280 --> 01:06:01,200
Speaker 4: this peaked interest from Republicans.

1272
01:06:01,160 --> 01:06:03,440
Speaker 3: And I think, correct me if I'm wrong that the

1273
01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:06,680
Speaker 3: Republicans are walking a fine line with Sean Fain personally

1274
01:06:06,680 --> 01:06:09,120
Speaker 3: because he has delivered such huge gains and is so

1275
01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:12,840
Speaker 3: massively popular with workers right now that like if you

1276
01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:16,560
Speaker 3: in that hearing yesterday, all of their fire was trained

1277
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:20,720
Speaker 3: at these public interest lawyers and not at Shaan Fain. Now,

1278
01:06:20,760 --> 01:06:24,320
Speaker 3: Barofsky has a personal beef directly with Sean Fain, but

1279
01:06:24,360 --> 01:06:26,920
Speaker 3: Barofsky's not running for reelection. You know, he's not trying

1280
01:06:26,920 --> 01:06:29,400
Speaker 3: to win the affection of workers. He's just this, He's

1281
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:34,920
Speaker 3: just Fain. But Republicans do seem sensitive to the idea

1282
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:38,200
Speaker 3: that they're not really going to paint Sean Fayne as

1283
01:06:38,240 --> 01:06:43,720
Speaker 3: like the woke problem that the workers are strongly behind Faine.

1284
01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:46,400
Speaker 3: But maybe you can drive a wedge between like grad

1285
01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:51,840
Speaker 3: students and public interest lawyers and auto workers. Although I'm

1286
01:06:52,360 --> 01:06:55,120
Speaker 3: not so sure because if Faine is maybe long term,

1287
01:06:55,120 --> 01:06:59,520
Speaker 3: but Faine right now is extraordinarily popular. But with a

1288
01:06:59,600 --> 01:07:02,800
Speaker 3: drip rip of Wall Street Journal articles saying that he's

1289
01:07:02,840 --> 01:07:06,920
Speaker 3: under federal investigation for this, federal investigation for that, and

1290
01:07:07,320 --> 01:07:09,320
Speaker 3: this one is like a classic example. You see the

1291
01:07:09,360 --> 01:07:12,600
Speaker 3: headline and you see the first paragraph, and it says

1292
01:07:13,120 --> 01:07:15,960
Speaker 3: that he did things to benefit his partner and her sister.

1293
01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:19,280
Speaker 3: You're like, what things, Oh, you don't say, and then

1294
01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:21,280
Speaker 3: you look at the actual complaint. It's like, well, he

1295
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:24,560
Speaker 3: did things that would have benefited them, Well, what does

1296
01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:28,240
Speaker 3: that mean. It's like saying Trump wanted a tax cut

1297
01:07:28,680 --> 01:07:32,200
Speaker 3: to benefit himself or to benefit his daughter and his

1298
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:35,520
Speaker 3: son in law. Well, they benefited from it, but no,

1299
01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:37,880
Speaker 3: he did the tax cut to benefit all the rich

1300
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:41,080
Speaker 3: people in the country, not just them.

1301
01:07:41,080 --> 01:07:44,560
Speaker 7: Interesting. Interesting, this is a crazy story, and.

1302
01:07:44,520 --> 01:07:49,280
Speaker 3: We've got a separate crazy story that actually was in Semaphore.

1303
01:07:49,640 --> 01:07:53,440
Speaker 3: Just to do this real quick. So yesterday, if you remember,

1304
01:07:53,520 --> 01:07:56,920
Speaker 3: Jeremy Skhill and I were on Breaking Points to talk

1305
01:07:56,960 --> 01:08:01,000
Speaker 3: about his reporting on a bunch of interviews that he

1306
01:08:01,120 --> 01:08:05,360
Speaker 3: did with Hamas officials. He was also on Democracy Now

1307
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:10,960
Speaker 3: with Amy Goodman. So Democracy Now then clipped his interview

1308
01:08:11,600 --> 01:08:16,920
Speaker 3: and posted it both to Instagram and to TikTok. Dropsite

1309
01:08:17,040 --> 01:08:21,120
Speaker 3: News also posted it to Instagram. Instagram took it down

1310
01:08:22,120 --> 01:08:28,439
Speaker 3: in both places. Semaphore got a comment from Instagram finally

1311
01:08:28,479 --> 01:08:29,880
Speaker 3: by the end of the day saying that it was

1312
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:33,200
Speaker 3: a mistake. But Democracy Now put it up several different times,

1313
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:36,160
Speaker 3: and each time it would get taken down until they

1314
01:08:36,160 --> 01:08:39,720
Speaker 3: finally so they took out a little carrot, and they

1315
01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:41,519
Speaker 3: took this red carrot out and I think that's what

1316
01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:43,840
Speaker 3: got it to stay up. So we're going to just

1317
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:47,639
Speaker 3: quickly play this element, which is this is the exact

1318
01:08:47,680 --> 01:08:52,840
Speaker 3: clip of Jeremy Skahell speaking to Amy Goodman which Instagram

1319
01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:55,280
Speaker 3: took off. Here it is on TikTok.

1320
01:08:55,520 --> 01:08:59,040
Speaker 13: I've spent the past couple of months talking with officials

1321
01:08:59,040 --> 01:09:01,160
Speaker 13: from HAMAS, some of the on background, some of them

1322
01:09:01,200 --> 01:09:04,479
Speaker 13: on the record. I also just returned from a reporting

1323
01:09:04,520 --> 01:09:06,280
Speaker 13: trip to the region, and I'm going to be doing

1324
01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:08,479
Speaker 13: more reporting in the coming days on this. But I

1325
01:09:08,479 --> 01:09:12,080
Speaker 13: think it's important to emphasize that October seventh didn't happen

1326
01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:15,559
Speaker 13: in a vacuum. You know, often when American officials talk

1327
01:09:15,640 --> 01:09:19,800
Speaker 13: about what HAMAS refers to as operational AXA flood, it's

1328
01:09:19,960 --> 01:09:23,680
Speaker 13: characterized as HAMAS shattered the piece. The reality is that

1329
01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:27,000
Speaker 13: for seventy six years, there has been no true piece

1330
01:09:27,160 --> 01:09:30,200
Speaker 13: for the Palestinian people in general, and certainly not for

1331
01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:33,760
Speaker 13: the people of Gaza. The primary motivation HAMAS members told

1332
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:37,240
Speaker 13: me was to try to shatter the status quo on Gaza,

1333
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:41,120
Speaker 13: while the fact remains that an enormous number of Palestinians

1334
01:09:41,160 --> 01:09:44,280
Speaker 13: have been slaughtered with US weapons in this genocidal war.

1335
01:09:44,920 --> 01:09:49,200
Speaker 13: The insurgency. The armed groups Islamic Jihad and HAMAS have

1336
01:09:49,280 --> 01:09:52,960
Speaker 13: waged a war of attrition against Israeli occupation forces. They've

1337
01:09:53,040 --> 01:09:56,519
Speaker 13: killed a large number of Israeli troops, They've blown up tanks.

1338
01:09:56,760 --> 01:09:59,719
Speaker 13: Despite the fact that they're characterized as rats hiding in tunnels.

1339
01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:04,160
Speaker 13: They proven very effective at delivering serious blows to the

1340
01:10:04,240 --> 01:10:07,800
Speaker 13: Israeli occupation forces. I don't think that there is there

1341
01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:10,000
Speaker 13: can really be any reasonable debate about whether or not

1342
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:12,280
Speaker 13: the Palestinians have a right to resist. This is a

1343
01:10:12,320 --> 01:10:15,960
Speaker 13: tactical question. Should Hamas have been able to predict that

1344
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:18,479
Speaker 13: the response from Israel was going to be far beyond

1345
01:10:18,640 --> 01:10:21,200
Speaker 13: any of the other recent bombing campaigns? And I heard

1346
01:10:21,200 --> 01:10:24,960
Speaker 13: different answers from people within Hamas. Some said, look, we

1347
01:10:25,040 --> 01:10:26,439
Speaker 13: thought we knew that it was going to be a

1348
01:10:26,439 --> 01:10:28,320
Speaker 13: heavy response. We knew that a lot of people were

1349
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:31,080
Speaker 13: going to die. This is the nature of how Israel

1350
01:10:31,120 --> 01:10:34,599
Speaker 13: responds to our legitimate resistance. But we did not imagine

1351
01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:36,320
Speaker 13: that it was going to be more than kind of

1352
01:10:36,400 --> 01:10:39,400
Speaker 13: what happened in twenty fourteen or twenty twenty one. But

1353
01:10:39,439 --> 01:10:43,160
Speaker 13: maybe on some steroids. But there were other officials that said,

1354
01:10:43,479 --> 01:10:46,280
Speaker 13: no one within Hamas predicted that it was going to

1355
01:10:46,280 --> 01:10:51,400
Speaker 13: be this scale of a genocidal war. So there isn't

1356
01:10:51,400 --> 01:10:54,479
Speaker 13: necessarily a party line on this. I got the sense

1357
01:10:54,520 --> 01:10:57,799
Speaker 13: that this is a question also that Hamas itself is debating,

1358
01:10:57,800 --> 01:10:59,479
Speaker 13: because there are going to be people that are going

1359
01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:04,200
Speaker 13: to confront them with these questions within Gaza itself. What

1360
01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:07,200
Speaker 13: is clear right now is that this is the moment

1361
01:11:07,240 --> 01:11:11,679
Speaker 13: when the world needs to address in a definitive way

1362
01:11:11,520 --> 01:11:15,600
Speaker 13: the demands by Palestinians for decades to have an independent,

1363
01:11:16,080 --> 01:11:17,599
Speaker 13: unified Palestinian state.

1364
01:11:17,800 --> 01:11:20,640
Speaker 3: And so when that was taken down by Instagram, it

1365
01:11:20,720 --> 01:11:24,040
Speaker 3: was replaced by a note that said that quote it

1366
01:11:24,080 --> 01:11:29,479
Speaker 3: goes against our community guidelines on dangerous individuals and organizations unquote.

1367
01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:34,760
Speaker 3: You know, the CIA director William Burns is heading to

1368
01:11:34,800 --> 01:11:39,920
Speaker 3: Cairo now to meet with official and Amas to negotiate

1369
01:11:40,040 --> 01:11:43,280
Speaker 3: a toward a ceasefire. If US officials are able to

1370
01:11:43,280 --> 01:11:45,679
Speaker 3: meet with Hamas, you would think that US journalists should

1371
01:11:45,680 --> 01:11:48,880
Speaker 3: be able to interview them and post it. Now, they

1372
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:52,240
Speaker 3: did climb down and said that was a mistake, So

1373
01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:53,680
Speaker 3: well let's take them with that.

1374
01:11:53,800 --> 01:11:55,400
Speaker 7: So what did you mean by you're talking about the

1375
01:11:55,400 --> 01:11:56,040
Speaker 7: red triangle?

1376
01:11:56,439 --> 01:11:59,200
Speaker 3: So if you noticed there was one moment where so

1377
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:02,080
Speaker 3: there's this upside down carrot, red carrot that that is

1378
01:12:02,200 --> 01:12:06,680
Speaker 3: used uh in basically all Hamas kind of combat videos,

1379
01:12:07,240 --> 01:12:09,640
Speaker 3: which they will they'll they'll pause the video. It'll be

1380
01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:13,040
Speaker 3: a carrot on say a tank so that the viewer

1381
01:12:13,080 --> 01:12:14,880
Speaker 3: can focus on what's about to happen, and then you'll

1382
01:12:14,880 --> 01:12:18,679
Speaker 3: see an RPG, right like, so basically what so that

1383
01:12:18,680 --> 01:12:22,200
Speaker 3: that is My guess is that that that that's something

1384
01:12:22,240 --> 01:12:27,519
Speaker 3: automatically flagged. And it's interesting if that would be news

1385
01:12:27,560 --> 01:12:31,280
Speaker 3: if if it's true that Instagram has now because that

1386
01:12:31,400 --> 01:12:35,240
Speaker 3: carrot has now become kind of symbolic with edge lord

1387
01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:39,479
Speaker 3: kind of supporters of hamas rather than you know, defenders

1388
01:12:39,479 --> 01:12:41,800
Speaker 3: of like Palestinian rights generally, but people who are like

1389
01:12:41,880 --> 01:12:45,479
Speaker 3: actively like yay go go casam brigades like that carrot

1390
01:12:46,560 --> 01:12:50,360
Speaker 3: becoming their their kind of symbol. So that that's that's

1391
01:12:50,360 --> 01:12:52,640
Speaker 3: my guess. But like, this is what we have to

1392
01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:55,519
Speaker 3: do with algorithms and big tech platforms, is we just

1393
01:12:55,560 --> 01:12:57,719
Speaker 3: sit here and we paw around in the dark, guessing

1394
01:12:58,439 --> 01:13:00,519
Speaker 3: at what what we're allowed to say, what not allowed

1395
01:13:00,520 --> 01:13:02,599
Speaker 3: to say in order to get the news out there.

1396
01:13:02,720 --> 01:13:06,280
Speaker 4: Yes, and our next guest has actually defended tech limiting

1397
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:10,439
Speaker 4: the freedom of reach. Although that's he's here to talk

1398
01:13:10,479 --> 01:13:14,600
Speaker 4: about Joe Biden. Be Brian Stelter, So maybe we'll have

1399
01:13:14,640 --> 01:13:16,599
Speaker 4: time for some extra questions because he wrote an op

1400
01:13:16,720 --> 01:13:20,120
Speaker 4: ed en Vox about how the media got the Biden

1401
01:13:20,200 --> 01:13:22,759
Speaker 4: story wrong. How the media got the Biden story right. Actually,

1402
01:13:22,800 --> 01:13:26,200
Speaker 4: it's sort of a provocative argument. So we're going to

1403
01:13:26,439 --> 01:13:27,559
Speaker 4: chat with him about all of that.

1404
01:13:27,640 --> 01:13:27,840
Speaker 7: Next.

1405
01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:30,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, one of the most high profile media reporters of

1406
01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:32,479
Speaker 3: our generation. Up next, Brian Stelter.

1407
01:13:32,680 --> 01:13:33,120
Speaker 7: That's right.

1408
01:13:35,840 --> 01:13:39,360
Speaker 4: We are joined now by Brian Stelter, special correspondent for

1409
01:13:39,560 --> 01:13:42,160
Speaker 4: Vanity Fair and also the author of a very provocative

1410
01:13:42,200 --> 01:13:44,760
Speaker 4: and interesting new op ed for Vox. We can put

1411
01:13:44,800 --> 01:13:47,840
Speaker 4: this up on the screen. That was had again a

1412
01:13:47,920 --> 01:13:50,719
Speaker 4: very provocative headline. It was just did the media botch

1413
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:54,400
Speaker 4: the Biden age story. We're going to get into all

1414
01:13:54,439 --> 01:13:57,160
Speaker 4: of that with Brian in just a moment. But Brian,

1415
01:13:57,200 --> 01:13:58,800
Speaker 4: first of all, thanks for joining the show.

1416
01:13:58,920 --> 01:13:59,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, great to be here. Thanks.

1417
01:14:00,160 --> 01:14:00,360
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1418
01:14:00,400 --> 01:14:01,800
Speaker 4: So, I just want to start off with a question

1419
01:14:01,880 --> 01:14:04,200
Speaker 4: that I will preface by saying, is being asked in

1420
01:14:04,280 --> 01:14:07,120
Speaker 4: total good faith. It is maybe a little adversarial, but

1421
01:14:08,439 --> 01:14:11,479
Speaker 4: you know, you write in this the national media wasn't

1422
01:14:11,520 --> 01:14:14,960
Speaker 4: dodging the story. You say, there's this third option that

1423
01:14:15,000 --> 01:14:17,439
Speaker 4: the story should have been tougher, the volume should have

1424
01:14:17,640 --> 01:14:18,519
Speaker 4: been louder.

1425
01:14:18,560 --> 01:14:20,000
Speaker 7: You say I was part of the problem.

1426
01:14:20,000 --> 01:14:23,120
Speaker 4: I appeared on MSNBC and said that Biden's age could

1427
01:14:23,120 --> 01:14:25,960
Speaker 4: decide the election quote if the media obsesses over it

1428
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:30,280
Speaker 4: and ignores Trump's faults. Back in the early Trump administration,

1429
01:14:30,320 --> 01:14:33,120
Speaker 4: there was this conversation raging about the twenty fifth Amendment,

1430
01:14:33,200 --> 01:14:36,880
Speaker 4: and the anonymous New York Times upbed and you platformed

1431
01:14:36,880 --> 01:14:39,320
Speaker 4: that conversation, gave it a decent bit of oxygen on

1432
01:14:39,439 --> 01:14:41,800
Speaker 4: your show, asked if Trump was well and all of that.

1433
01:14:41,960 --> 01:14:45,080
Speaker 4: So my question based on this is the story should

1434
01:14:45,080 --> 01:14:46,720
Speaker 4: have been tougher, The volume should have been louder. The

1435
01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:49,800
Speaker 4: quote from the vox opbed Why Why wasn't it? Why

1436
01:14:49,880 --> 01:14:53,280
Speaker 4: was the volume on the Trump stories much louder than

1437
01:14:53,520 --> 01:14:55,759
Speaker 4: the volume was on the Biden story. It's just given

1438
01:14:56,280 --> 01:14:59,599
Speaker 4: the obvious sort of mental diminishment that we'd been seeing

1439
01:14:59,600 --> 01:15:01,000
Speaker 4: from Joe, I.

1440
01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:02,720
Speaker 18: Think this has a lot to do with who the

1441
01:15:02,760 --> 01:15:05,920
Speaker 18: actors are in any given story or scenario, and right now,

1442
01:15:05,960 --> 01:15:08,720
Speaker 18: in the Biden story, the main actors are not journalists.

1443
01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:15,240
Speaker 18: They are democratic lawmakers, a democratic activists, democratic partisan commentators.

1444
01:15:15,240 --> 01:15:18,000
Speaker 18: But you know people who are clearly on the democratic

1445
01:15:18,120 --> 01:15:22,200
Speaker 18: side who are making this a major story. There's a

1446
01:15:22,280 --> 01:15:25,320
Speaker 18: crisis around Biden, not because of the media per se,

1447
01:15:25,680 --> 01:15:27,439
Speaker 18: but because of people in his own party.

1448
01:15:27,479 --> 01:15:28,280
Speaker 6: Who want him out.

1449
01:15:28,720 --> 01:15:30,400
Speaker 18: I would say there were elements of that as well.

1450
01:15:30,400 --> 01:15:34,200
Speaker 18: In the Trump years. There are Republicans, there were anonymous

1451
01:15:34,200 --> 01:15:37,879
Speaker 18: Trump officials aid it's all raising questions about Trump's fitness.

1452
01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:40,559
Speaker 18: So I don't think the media was driving either of

1453
01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:44,880
Speaker 18: those narratives. But obviously, because all of this becomes it's

1454
01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:48,720
Speaker 18: all mediated through the media, it's all covered by television

1455
01:15:48,720 --> 01:15:52,920
Speaker 18: networks and streamers and columnists. It always looks like a

1456
01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:54,320
Speaker 18: media creation when it's not.

1457
01:15:54,479 --> 01:15:55,759
Speaker 6: Does that make any sense.

1458
01:15:56,840 --> 01:15:59,200
Speaker 18: Yeah, so you're saying a full answer, but I think

1459
01:15:59,200 --> 01:16:01,800
Speaker 18: that's part of the background here. But then to your

1460
01:16:01,840 --> 01:16:04,880
Speaker 18: broader point about Biden's the coverage of Biden, I say

1461
01:16:04,880 --> 01:16:06,840
Speaker 18: it wasn't ignored because the Wall Street Journal, the New

1462
01:16:06,920 --> 01:16:10,160
Speaker 18: York Times, Washington Posts were doing really strong stories about

1463
01:16:10,160 --> 01:16:12,759
Speaker 18: how he was getting older, he was getting slower, aides

1464
01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:16,040
Speaker 18: were noticing he was slipping. However, it feels to me

1465
01:16:16,120 --> 01:16:18,679
Speaker 18: like those dots weren't always connected, like they were treated

1466
01:16:18,680 --> 01:16:20,519
Speaker 18: as And honestly, that was my mistake.

1467
01:16:20,560 --> 01:16:21,200
Speaker 6: That was my mistake.

1468
01:16:21,240 --> 01:16:23,519
Speaker 18: And I'm just a you know, freelancer now just watches

1469
01:16:23,600 --> 01:16:26,000
Speaker 18: TV and chat with people like you. But what I

1470
01:16:26,080 --> 01:16:28,880
Speaker 18: made the mistake of thinking these were all isolated episodes

1471
01:16:29,680 --> 01:16:32,360
Speaker 18: and not connecting the dots. I think a lot of people,

1472
01:16:32,479 --> 01:16:35,559
Speaker 18: myself included, gave the benefit of the doubt to the

1473
01:16:35,560 --> 01:16:37,519
Speaker 18: White House when maybe we shouldn't have.

1474
01:16:39,439 --> 01:16:42,200
Speaker 3: And I guess it's a sign of what we kind

1475
01:16:42,200 --> 01:16:44,280
Speaker 3: of already knew that Like to take the New York

1476
01:16:44,280 --> 01:16:48,040
Speaker 3: Times for instance, and I'm curious for your take as

1477
01:16:48,080 --> 01:16:50,559
Speaker 3: a watcher and somebody who's covered the New York Times

1478
01:16:50,560 --> 01:16:55,360
Speaker 3: for decades now, they have like a switch has flipped,

1479
01:16:55,600 --> 01:16:57,920
Speaker 3: Like it seems like inside the New York Times, they're like,

1480
01:16:57,920 --> 01:17:01,519
Speaker 3: we're getting this guy out, and it seems like all

1481
01:17:01,560 --> 01:17:03,960
Speaker 3: hands on deck. You know. The news side is, you know,

1482
01:17:04,120 --> 01:17:09,679
Speaker 3: calling donors and calling politicians and writing and elevating comments

1483
01:17:09,680 --> 01:17:14,679
Speaker 3: from Democrats who are calling for him to step aside.

1484
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:18,439
Speaker 3: And the opinion side, both the editorializing directly from the

1485
01:17:18,920 --> 01:17:21,679
Speaker 3: you know, the the New York Times, like the unnamed

1486
01:17:21,760 --> 01:17:25,360
Speaker 3: editorial board whatever that is, is very very strong, and

1487
01:17:25,439 --> 01:17:27,719
Speaker 3: then also the columns that they're elevating like James Carville,

1488
01:17:27,920 --> 01:17:31,000
Speaker 3: same time, James Carvill calling from the dropout and have

1489
01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:35,280
Speaker 3: an open convention. That's all newsworthy. You you've had some

1490
01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:37,760
Speaker 3: kind of blue maga Democrats who said, well, why won't

1491
01:17:37,800 --> 01:17:39,840
Speaker 3: the New York Times call for Trump to drop out?

1492
01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:44,839
Speaker 3: It's like, well, because it's it just kind of elevates

1493
01:17:44,840 --> 01:17:48,120
Speaker 3: something we all understand that nobody, nobody on the Republican

1494
01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:50,360
Speaker 3: side would care if the New York Times doayes that,

1495
01:17:50,720 --> 01:17:53,320
Speaker 3: but on the Democratic side they do. It kind of

1496
01:17:53,520 --> 01:17:55,760
Speaker 3: solidifies their understanding that it's part of the kind of

1497
01:17:55,800 --> 01:17:58,720
Speaker 3: it's become really part of the democratic ecosystem has in

1498
01:17:58,840 --> 01:18:01,519
Speaker 3: it in a way that maybe it wasn't ten twenty

1499
01:18:01,600 --> 01:18:03,680
Speaker 3: years ago. Like if the New York Times would have

1500
01:18:03,720 --> 01:18:07,160
Speaker 3: called on a Republican to drop out twenty years ago,

1501
01:18:07,560 --> 01:18:09,360
Speaker 3: that would have actually mattered in a way that I

1502
01:18:09,400 --> 01:18:11,840
Speaker 3: think it wouldn't matter today. Is that is that right?

1503
01:18:14,200 --> 01:18:14,400
Speaker 6: I mean?

1504
01:18:14,439 --> 01:18:16,479
Speaker 18: Look, I worked to the New York Times from twent

1505
01:18:16,479 --> 01:18:19,760
Speaker 18: thousand and seven twenty thirteen. I always knew back then,

1506
01:18:19,800 --> 01:18:21,920
Speaker 18: and I still know today that the newsroom is so

1507
01:18:22,160 --> 01:18:25,080
Speaker 18: separate from the editorial pages. They work on different floors

1508
01:18:25,080 --> 01:18:27,200
Speaker 18: in the building. There is no coordination.

1509
01:18:27,800 --> 01:18:27,960
Speaker 13: You know.

1510
01:18:28,040 --> 01:18:32,760
Speaker 18: All of that is you know true. So twenty years ago,

1511
01:18:32,800 --> 01:18:35,599
Speaker 18: if the editorial pages had called for Republican a step down,

1512
01:18:35,920 --> 01:18:37,840
Speaker 18: I don't think it would have registered that much. To

1513
01:18:37,880 --> 01:18:41,439
Speaker 18: be honest, it depends on the race, depends on the context. Also,

1514
01:18:41,560 --> 01:18:44,320
Speaker 18: we lived in a completely different political environment, I mean

1515
01:18:44,400 --> 01:18:48,000
Speaker 18: completely different. We were not ruled by an American gerontocracy,

1516
01:18:48,360 --> 01:18:51,400
Speaker 18: these elderly men that run the government that most people

1517
01:18:51,439 --> 01:18:52,160
Speaker 18: are tired of.

1518
01:18:52,479 --> 01:18:53,960
Speaker 6: I mean that's that's one of the themes I think

1519
01:18:54,000 --> 01:18:54,760
Speaker 6: of your program that.

1520
01:18:54,760 --> 01:18:58,240
Speaker 18: I really appreciate people of all ages, but especially people

1521
01:18:58,280 --> 01:19:02,360
Speaker 18: under sixty five, are for younger leadership. And that's to

1522
01:19:02,400 --> 01:19:04,400
Speaker 18: me that the bigger story of Biden's age right now,

1523
01:19:04,479 --> 01:19:06,880
Speaker 18: it's not really about Biden. What it is about Biden

1524
01:19:06,880 --> 01:19:09,280
Speaker 18: obviously whether he's hit for office, but it's much bigger

1525
01:19:09,280 --> 01:19:11,960
Speaker 18: than Biden. This is about Trump and the Supreme Court

1526
01:19:12,040 --> 01:19:13,599
Speaker 18: and elderly members of Congress.

1527
01:19:13,600 --> 01:19:15,759
Speaker 6: They won't give up their post. This is a big story.

1528
01:19:16,000 --> 01:19:17,719
Speaker 18: And so when you say the New York Times seems

1529
01:19:17,720 --> 01:19:20,360
Speaker 18: to be flipped to switch, I understand why it feels

1530
01:19:20,360 --> 01:19:22,879
Speaker 18: that way about Biden, but I don't think that's actually

1531
01:19:23,120 --> 01:19:25,400
Speaker 18: how it works inside the New York Times newsroom. I

1532
01:19:25,400 --> 01:19:26,960
Speaker 18: think the way it works is they see there's a

1533
01:19:26,960 --> 01:19:30,040
Speaker 18: big story developing. People that were in denial about Biden's

1534
01:19:30,080 --> 01:19:32,960
Speaker 18: age are no longer in denial. The Democratic Party, many

1535
01:19:33,040 --> 01:19:35,960
Speaker 18: leaders want him out. This is an emergency, and a

1536
01:19:35,960 --> 01:19:37,880
Speaker 18: lot of people are pretending like it's not in public,

1537
01:19:38,120 --> 01:19:40,479
Speaker 18: but they're saying it's an emergency in private. So I

1538
01:19:40,600 --> 01:19:42,960
Speaker 18: view the New York Times as just trying to cover

1539
01:19:43,000 --> 01:19:45,120
Speaker 18: a massive story in front of itself.

1540
01:19:45,600 --> 01:19:47,360
Speaker 4: The things One of the things you wrote about in

1541
01:19:47,360 --> 01:19:49,840
Speaker 4: the vox op ed is that people in the White

1542
01:19:49,840 --> 01:19:53,400
Speaker 4: House press corps, for example, were recalling stories of being

1543
01:19:53,439 --> 01:19:56,280
Speaker 4: harassed and harangued by the Biden White House, the Biden

1544
01:19:56,320 --> 01:20:00,479
Speaker 4: campaign for reporting of Peter Baker as reclined ts. Brian,

1545
01:20:00,479 --> 01:20:02,800
Speaker 4: You've encountered some of those just over of course of

1546
01:20:02,840 --> 01:20:06,000
Speaker 4: the last couple of weeks, just in having some of

1547
01:20:06,040 --> 01:20:10,880
Speaker 4: these conversations openly. Does that mean that the media in

1548
01:20:10,960 --> 01:20:15,559
Speaker 4: some way was overly responsive because they were still publishing stories.

1549
01:20:15,600 --> 01:20:18,520
Speaker 4: I think that's true. But were they sort of responding

1550
01:20:18,840 --> 01:20:21,960
Speaker 4: to that bullying by being bullied by the White House.

1551
01:20:22,000 --> 01:20:24,320
Speaker 4: What's your sense of how they responded to that.

1552
01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:27,679
Speaker 6: I think it's complex. I think it varies.

1553
01:20:27,920 --> 01:20:30,920
Speaker 18: I do think there are probably some occasions where the

1554
01:20:30,920 --> 01:20:34,840
Speaker 18: White House was able to water down stories dramatically. They

1555
01:20:34,840 --> 01:20:38,439
Speaker 18: were able to dilute stories by for example, providing half

1556
01:20:38,479 --> 01:20:40,960
Speaker 18: a dozen aids on the phone, on the record, all

1557
01:20:41,000 --> 01:20:43,519
Speaker 18: to attest to Biden's fitness. I mean, this is typical

1558
01:20:43,560 --> 01:20:45,720
Speaker 18: journalism one oh one and PR one oh one. If

1559
01:20:45,800 --> 01:20:48,000
Speaker 18: if you're up against a journalist writing a tough story,

1560
01:20:48,360 --> 01:20:51,800
Speaker 18: you might try to change the narrative or weaken the

1561
01:20:51,880 --> 01:20:55,479
Speaker 18: narrative by providing delwi's a counterpoints, right, And so the

1562
01:20:55,479 --> 01:20:59,160
Speaker 18: Biden administration was providing counterpoints. They were putting administration officials

1563
01:20:59,160 --> 01:21:01,439
Speaker 18: on the record to say he's sharp as attack, he's

1564
01:21:01,439 --> 01:21:03,320
Speaker 18: stronger than all of us, to the point where it

1565
01:21:03,320 --> 01:21:06,400
Speaker 18: became kind of a joke among the reporters, this idea

1566
01:21:06,400 --> 01:21:09,320
Speaker 18: that all the Biden aids, all the younger aids, insists

1567
01:21:09,320 --> 01:21:12,040
Speaker 18: that Biden is faster and better than them. Ye know,

1568
01:21:12,680 --> 01:21:16,719
Speaker 18: people see through this to some degree, especially now. But

1569
01:21:16,720 --> 01:21:19,240
Speaker 18: but you know, I do think that the bullying or

1570
01:21:19,280 --> 01:21:22,840
Speaker 18: the really aggressive press efforts, you know, we'd be we'd

1571
01:21:22,840 --> 01:21:25,720
Speaker 18: be ridiculous not to think it had some impact. And

1572
01:21:25,920 --> 01:21:28,000
Speaker 18: by the way, there's a connection there to the Trump years. Right,

1573
01:21:28,640 --> 01:21:32,080
Speaker 18: how did the Trump administration begin by lying about crowd size?

1574
01:21:32,240 --> 01:21:34,920
Speaker 18: It created antagonism between the press corps and the president

1575
01:21:35,080 --> 01:21:37,360
Speaker 18: right away, right on the very first weekend. The Biden

1576
01:21:37,400 --> 01:21:40,000
Speaker 18: relationship with the press has been different. He's kept the

1577
01:21:40,040 --> 01:21:43,080
Speaker 18: press at a distance, but has been more outwardly respectful.

1578
01:21:43,520 --> 01:21:45,840
Speaker 18: And do I think that's that makes a difference in

1579
01:21:46,040 --> 01:21:50,720
Speaker 18: how he's been treated or covered? Yes, probably right. I

1580
01:21:50,720 --> 01:21:52,120
Speaker 18: don't want to pretend otherwise.

1581
01:21:51,840 --> 01:21:52,200
Speaker 6: Right, Emily.

1582
01:21:53,200 --> 01:21:56,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's also been a relationship between the White House

1583
01:21:57,160 --> 01:21:59,760
Speaker 3: some kind of blue maga you could call them blue

1584
01:21:59,760 --> 01:22:02,519
Speaker 3: mag white House influencers, and then a kind of blue

1585
01:22:02,560 --> 01:22:06,519
Speaker 3: mega bass that is out there on social media that

1586
01:22:06,600 --> 01:22:07,479
Speaker 3: is going after.

1587
01:22:07,280 --> 01:22:10,640
Speaker 6: To call it blue maga, it blue and on?

1588
01:22:10,800 --> 01:22:11,120
Speaker 7: Is that what?

1589
01:22:12,680 --> 01:22:15,439
Speaker 6: That's even worse? Blue and on is even worse? But

1590
01:22:15,600 --> 01:22:17,639
Speaker 6: it is. It is wild out there, Ryan.

1591
01:22:17,840 --> 01:22:19,760
Speaker 3: It is right. I mean, you've been probably on the

1592
01:22:19,760 --> 01:22:23,599
Speaker 3: receiving end you as a as a public figure. You're

1593
01:22:24,360 --> 01:22:27,760
Speaker 3: of course like it's nothing new to get criticism, et cetera.

1594
01:22:27,840 --> 01:22:30,320
Speaker 3: But what's what's it been like? How how has it

1595
01:22:30,439 --> 01:22:34,519
Speaker 3: been different or has it been different? It has? Yes,

1596
01:22:34,600 --> 01:22:37,280
Speaker 3: and described describe the difference because I've noticed it too.

1597
01:22:37,840 --> 01:22:39,439
Speaker 18: So so so number one, let's go back to the

1598
01:22:39,520 --> 01:22:41,400
Speaker 18: night of the debate was actually let's go back a

1599
01:22:41,400 --> 01:22:41,920
Speaker 18: little bit further.

1600
01:22:42,160 --> 01:22:43,599
Speaker 6: Remember the state of the Union address.

1601
01:22:44,000 --> 01:22:48,320
Speaker 18: Remember how charged and energetic and defiant Biden was that night.

1602
01:22:48,720 --> 01:22:50,920
Speaker 6: He outperformed almost every expectation.

1603
01:22:51,479 --> 01:22:51,880
Speaker 17: Uh I.

1604
01:22:52,600 --> 01:22:55,040
Speaker 18: My personal theory is that he read his own reviews

1605
01:22:55,479 --> 01:22:58,320
Speaker 18: and he became maybe even too confident in his abilities

1606
01:22:58,360 --> 01:23:01,840
Speaker 18: going forward because he had a breakthrough night, And for

1607
01:23:01,920 --> 01:23:03,840
Speaker 18: a lot of people who might have been worried about

1608
01:23:03,880 --> 01:23:06,240
Speaker 18: his age or his health, or they might have relaxed

1609
01:23:06,280 --> 01:23:08,880
Speaker 18: a little bit. Thankfully, reporters of the Wall Street Journal didn't.

1610
01:23:08,880 --> 01:23:11,400
Speaker 18: They found some great information and published in early June.

1611
01:23:11,439 --> 01:23:14,080
Speaker 18: But my point is there were moments earlier this year

1612
01:23:14,479 --> 01:23:16,960
Speaker 18: that might have lulled people into a sense of complacency

1613
01:23:17,280 --> 01:23:19,320
Speaker 18: when it comes to Biden's ability to do the job

1614
01:23:19,400 --> 01:23:22,599
Speaker 18: and a campaign, more importantly, to campaign for president. Then

1615
01:23:22,640 --> 01:23:25,879
Speaker 18: the debate happens, and I was on a Canadian television

1616
01:23:25,880 --> 01:23:28,439
Speaker 18: network right afterward, and I said, this is you know,

1617
01:23:28,479 --> 01:23:30,479
Speaker 18: this is an emergency. I didn't use the word emergency,

1618
01:23:30,479 --> 01:23:33,080
Speaker 18: but I said, there are many Democrats who now want

1619
01:23:33,080 --> 01:23:33,800
Speaker 18: to replace him.

1620
01:23:33,840 --> 01:23:35,479
Speaker 6: This is an unprecedented moment.

1621
01:23:35,680 --> 01:23:37,960
Speaker 18: And the anchor literally says to me, Brian, I've watched

1622
01:23:38,000 --> 01:23:40,240
Speaker 18: you for years, I've never heard you talk this way.

1623
01:23:40,560 --> 01:23:42,080
Speaker 18: And I came off the air, and I wondered, was

1624
01:23:42,120 --> 01:23:44,200
Speaker 18: I too strong? Did I go too far? Is this

1625
01:23:44,520 --> 01:23:46,840
Speaker 18: really that bad for Biden? But then I go watch

1626
01:23:46,880 --> 01:23:49,680
Speaker 18: CNN and MSNBC and Fox and everybody. You know, there

1627
01:23:49,720 --> 01:23:53,320
Speaker 18: was a consensus immediately, and we should not pretend.

1628
01:23:52,960 --> 01:23:56,519
Speaker 6: Otherwise, like this was a very clear, this.

1629
01:23:56,479 --> 01:23:59,479
Speaker 18: Was a non partisan conclusion, right that there was something

1630
01:23:59,479 --> 01:24:02,160
Speaker 18: really trouble about Biden's behavior on stage. So with that

1631
01:24:02,280 --> 01:24:07,640
Speaker 18: in mind, the response from pro Biden social media followers

1632
01:24:07,760 --> 01:24:10,120
Speaker 18: just seems as if it comes from a different planet.

1633
01:24:10,600 --> 01:24:12,920
Speaker 18: It just seems as if it's happening from Earth too.

1634
01:24:13,479 --> 01:24:15,439
Speaker 18: And as you know, I've talked a lot about Earth too.

1635
01:24:15,479 --> 01:24:19,960
Speaker 18: In relation to Trump fans, you know, nobody who's ever

1636
01:24:20,240 --> 01:24:23,280
Speaker 18: heard of I mean, look, if you know one thing

1637
01:24:23,320 --> 01:24:26,240
Speaker 18: about my career at CNN, it was that I was

1638
01:24:26,600 --> 01:24:31,800
Speaker 18: very tough and critical of the President Trump and the

1639
01:24:31,800 --> 01:24:35,400
Speaker 18: pro Trump media. That's basically my brand. I wish I

1640
01:24:35,400 --> 01:24:37,240
Speaker 18: think it's more complicated, But you know, if you had

1641
01:24:37,240 --> 01:24:39,799
Speaker 18: to summarize me in a sentence, you'd say, yeah, Selter,

1642
01:24:39,960 --> 01:24:42,439
Speaker 18: the guy that was always calling out Trump. And so

1643
01:24:42,479 --> 01:24:46,960
Speaker 18: to have all of these deep blue liberal social media

1644
01:24:47,040 --> 01:24:50,840
Speaker 18: fans pretending as if I am some Maga diehard some

1645
01:24:50,920 --> 01:24:54,280
Speaker 18: Trump back. It is just it has been a weird time, Ryan.

1646
01:24:54,400 --> 01:24:57,080
Speaker 18: I mean, you've seen it online too. It's a weird

1647
01:24:57,760 --> 01:24:59,599
Speaker 18: and so I think we should go a little deeper

1648
01:25:00,080 --> 01:25:02,960
Speaker 18: causing that behavior, Like, where's that coming from, right? I

1649
01:25:02,960 --> 01:25:05,439
Speaker 18: think it's coming out of fear. I think it's mostly

1650
01:25:05,439 --> 01:25:07,680
Speaker 18: out of fear that Trump is going to return, that

1651
01:25:07,680 --> 01:25:09,720
Speaker 18: Biden's going to lose and Trump's going to return. And

1652
01:25:09,760 --> 01:25:12,400
Speaker 18: so you have a lot of these Biden diehards who

1653
01:25:12,439 --> 01:25:16,280
Speaker 18: are desperate to shut down the conversation about their candidate.

1654
01:25:17,200 --> 01:25:20,679
Speaker 4: And do you, looking back, feel like maybe that fear

1655
01:25:20,880 --> 01:25:23,920
Speaker 4: ever influenced the way that you covered the Trump administration

1656
01:25:23,920 --> 01:25:25,920
Speaker 4: because I'm fascinated by this question of the benefit of

1657
01:25:25,960 --> 01:25:28,000
Speaker 4: the doubt that you mentioned that, like, maybe that was

1658
01:25:28,280 --> 01:25:30,240
Speaker 4: giving the benefit of the doubt to the Biden administration

1659
01:25:30,280 --> 01:25:32,479
Speaker 4: when they talked about his health. He had some good moments,

1660
01:25:32,520 --> 01:25:35,760
Speaker 4: he looked okay. But then you know, for example, your

1661
01:25:35,800 --> 01:25:38,040
Speaker 4: response to the Hunter Biden laptop story. This is a

1662
01:25:38,040 --> 01:25:40,360
Speaker 4: classic example of the right wing media machine. That's a

1663
01:25:40,439 --> 01:25:43,920
Speaker 4: quote quote from maybe twenty twenty. There's still a lot

1664
01:25:43,960 --> 01:25:47,200
Speaker 4: we don't know about the president's time ties with Russia, period,

1665
01:25:47,520 --> 01:25:49,040
Speaker 4: and we could get into all of this. We don't

1666
01:25:49,080 --> 01:25:51,240
Speaker 4: need to get into all of this. But I genuinely

1667
01:25:51,280 --> 01:25:52,920
Speaker 4: am interested in that question, the benefit of the doubt,

1668
01:25:52,920 --> 01:25:54,880
Speaker 4: because I do feel like that's the rub between a

1669
01:25:54,880 --> 01:25:58,679
Speaker 4: lot of media critics like myself and people in the media,

1670
01:25:59,280 --> 01:26:01,040
Speaker 4: and I know you in the box up Edd sort

1671
01:26:01,040 --> 01:26:02,680
Speaker 4: of take issue in an interesting way with what we

1672
01:26:02,840 --> 01:26:05,040
Speaker 4: describe as the media, what we define as the media,

1673
01:26:05,040 --> 01:26:09,040
Speaker 4: because we're all on our bubbles right now. But personally, like,

1674
01:26:09,200 --> 01:26:10,960
Speaker 4: as you think about it, why do you think it

1675
01:26:11,040 --> 01:26:12,920
Speaker 4: is that you gave the benefit of the doubt there,

1676
01:26:14,120 --> 01:26:16,200
Speaker 4: but not to and maybe to the Biden campaign with

1677
01:26:16,200 --> 01:26:18,439
Speaker 4: the Hunter Biden laptop story too, when took that claim

1678
01:26:18,439 --> 01:26:19,879
Speaker 4: of disinformation very seriously.

1679
01:26:20,560 --> 01:26:23,000
Speaker 18: Well, I think number one, the State of the Union

1680
01:26:23,120 --> 01:26:25,560
Speaker 18: is an example of why some people were inclined to

1681
01:26:25,600 --> 01:26:27,960
Speaker 18: give Biden the benefit of the doubt. That on the

1682
01:26:28,120 --> 01:26:31,320
Speaker 18: moments where there was a lot of scrutiny about how

1683
01:26:31,320 --> 01:26:33,360
Speaker 18: he was going to perform, was he up for the task,

1684
01:26:33,720 --> 01:26:37,400
Speaker 18: he then outperformed. And I think there is a narrative

1685
01:26:37,400 --> 01:26:39,400
Speaker 18: now in the right wing media that says, Haha, we

1686
01:26:39,479 --> 01:26:42,000
Speaker 18: told you so, we told you Biden was senile, that

1687
01:26:42,120 --> 01:26:45,760
Speaker 18: conveniently forgets all the moments where he did outperform, all

1688
01:26:45,760 --> 01:26:48,680
Speaker 18: the moments where he was energetic, where he did you know,

1689
01:26:49,160 --> 01:26:52,800
Speaker 18: sink it to the Republicans achieved by parsonship, et cetera.

1690
01:26:53,600 --> 01:26:54,280
Speaker 6: But I do think the.

1691
01:26:54,200 --> 01:26:55,880
Speaker 18: Benefit of the doubt thing is real. It's just a

1692
01:26:55,920 --> 01:26:57,960
Speaker 18: theory of mine. I hope maybe others has agree.

1693
01:26:58,000 --> 01:26:58,680
Speaker 6: I want to hear it.

1694
01:26:58,880 --> 01:27:02,160
Speaker 18: I would also differentiate between individual members of the media

1695
01:27:02,479 --> 01:27:05,000
Speaker 18: and the media writ large as a blob right, because

1696
01:27:05,160 --> 01:27:09,040
Speaker 18: big newsrooms exist in order to make sure a benefit

1697
01:27:09,080 --> 01:27:11,879
Speaker 18: of that doesn't happen, make sure that neutrality, independence is achieved,

1698
01:27:11,880 --> 01:27:14,000
Speaker 18: to make sure that there isn't bias in the coverage.

1699
01:27:14,040 --> 01:27:15,880
Speaker 6: I know you think they often come up short.

1700
01:27:15,720 --> 01:27:18,519
Speaker 18: And maybe they do, but you know, newsrooms are structured

1701
01:27:18,520 --> 01:27:19,560
Speaker 18: in order to push.

1702
01:27:19,320 --> 01:27:21,640
Speaker 6: All of that stuff out and ensure.

1703
01:27:21,320 --> 01:27:24,400
Speaker 18: That people in power are being held accountable. I just

1704
01:27:24,439 --> 01:27:26,640
Speaker 18: think on a more personal individual level, when you think

1705
01:27:26,640 --> 01:27:31,519
Speaker 18: about certain columnists and commentators and you know, bucking heads Biden,

1706
01:27:31,720 --> 01:27:35,240
Speaker 18: has he's been respected and to some extent, every you know,

1707
01:27:35,479 --> 01:27:38,960
Speaker 18: president should be respected. I feel like I respected President

1708
01:27:39,000 --> 01:27:42,080
Speaker 18: Trump in the A certain points for ZEP when he

1709
01:27:42,160 --> 01:27:44,439
Speaker 18: had COVID and there was a real concern about the

1710
01:27:44,479 --> 01:27:47,679
Speaker 18: American president's health. Right, Well, that's where we are get now,

1711
01:27:48,160 --> 01:27:51,479
Speaker 18: real deep, profound concern about the American president's health. And

1712
01:27:51,520 --> 01:27:54,840
Speaker 18: these these Biden diehards who think the media is out

1713
01:27:54,880 --> 01:27:58,519
Speaker 18: to get him, they're totally missing what's actually happening, which

1714
01:27:58,520 --> 01:28:01,000
Speaker 18: is that journalists are trying to scratch, scratch, scratch as

1715
01:28:01,000 --> 01:28:03,000
Speaker 18: hard as we can to figure out what's really going

1716
01:28:03,040 --> 01:28:05,840
Speaker 18: on in this White House, which increasingly, you know, there's

1717
01:28:05,880 --> 01:28:08,400
Speaker 18: increasing questions about whether there was a cover up. And

1718
01:28:08,439 --> 01:28:11,960
Speaker 18: we say that not to uh, to say officially there

1719
01:28:12,040 --> 01:28:13,240
Speaker 18: was a cover up, but it has to it's a

1720
01:28:13,280 --> 01:28:14,360
Speaker 18: question that has to be asked.

1721
01:28:14,560 --> 01:28:16,200
Speaker 6: It's it's a question that has to be addressed.

1722
01:28:16,960 --> 01:28:21,080
Speaker 3: And is there much so the reporters that you spoke

1723
01:28:21,120 --> 01:28:25,680
Speaker 3: with doing the reporting here, what is the reflection? What

1724
01:28:25,720 --> 01:28:27,960
Speaker 3: do they think they could have done differently so that

1725
01:28:28,560 --> 01:28:30,280
Speaker 3: this wouldn't have happened? Or do they think that this

1726
01:28:30,479 --> 01:28:34,160
Speaker 3: was just structurally they were just bound, This was just overdetermined.

1727
01:28:35,200 --> 01:28:37,920
Speaker 6: What do you mean overdetermined like that.

1728
01:28:37,400 --> 01:28:39,639
Speaker 3: The media is what it is, and if the if

1729
01:28:39,680 --> 01:28:42,040
Speaker 3: the White if the White House is going to kind

1730
01:28:42,080 --> 01:28:44,680
Speaker 3: of cover up the situation and snow them with a

1731
01:28:44,680 --> 01:28:46,960
Speaker 3: bunch of on the record people saying that, you know,

1732
01:28:47,040 --> 01:28:49,600
Speaker 3: Joe Biden can outrun every twenty year old intern in

1733
01:28:50,080 --> 01:28:52,439
Speaker 3: the White House, but they don't have interns anymore for

1734
01:28:53,080 --> 01:28:56,200
Speaker 3: reasons that we know they renamed them. You know that

1735
01:28:57,080 --> 01:29:01,000
Speaker 3: facing those those structures of like and you know, the

1736
01:29:01,040 --> 01:29:03,320
Speaker 3: Wall Street Journal article is an excellent example. Like, after

1737
01:29:03,360 --> 01:29:07,120
Speaker 3: that story came out, you had the entire Democratic apparatus

1738
01:29:07,160 --> 01:29:10,800
Speaker 3: pushing back on them, saying this was flawed and faulty reporting.

1739
01:29:11,120 --> 01:29:14,320
Speaker 3: You had a bunch of Democratic electives who came out

1740
01:29:14,360 --> 01:29:17,080
Speaker 3: and said, I gave them an on the record quote,

1741
01:29:17,360 --> 01:29:20,840
Speaker 3: and we didn't and they use it. This is outrageous,

1742
01:29:20,840 --> 01:29:22,960
Speaker 3: Patty Murray, who now wants them to drop out. Yeah,

1743
01:29:23,479 --> 01:29:26,000
Speaker 3: it's outrageous that they didn't use these on the record quotes.

1744
01:29:26,040 --> 01:29:28,080
Speaker 3: And then you'd have all the Rachel Vindman's of the

1745
01:29:28,080 --> 01:29:32,640
Speaker 3: world regurgitating that, saying that this is flawed journalism. How

1746
01:29:32,720 --> 01:29:35,080
Speaker 3: on earth could they not quote on the record. It's

1747
01:29:35,120 --> 01:29:37,960
Speaker 3: clear that they're biased and the reporters are like because

1748
01:29:38,000 --> 01:29:42,360
Speaker 3: they were lying because and also we included extensive quotes

1749
01:29:42,360 --> 01:29:45,640
Speaker 3: from the White House, you know, making their case, but

1750
01:29:45,680 --> 01:29:48,559
Speaker 3: we don't have room for every lying Democrat who's going

1751
01:29:48,600 --> 01:29:50,639
Speaker 3: to go on the record and say that yeah, he can,

1752
01:29:50,680 --> 01:29:55,720
Speaker 3: he can outrun me. So, given given those structural problems

1753
01:29:55,760 --> 01:29:59,880
Speaker 3: that that individual reporters face, do they feel like they

1754
01:30:00,200 --> 01:30:01,880
Speaker 3: they screwed up and they could have done this differently

1755
01:30:01,920 --> 01:30:04,280
Speaker 3: and they regret it, or do they feel like they're

1756
01:30:04,360 --> 01:30:08,360
Speaker 3: just up against a force that they can't overcome.

1757
01:30:08,640 --> 01:30:10,080
Speaker 6: Well, I think there's a lot of points of view.

1758
01:30:10,360 --> 01:30:12,080
Speaker 18: I'm really interested in the point of view that several

1759
01:30:12,120 --> 01:30:14,439
Speaker 18: reporters shared with me that the coverage should have become

1760
01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:18,000
Speaker 18: more aggressive when Biden decided to run for reelection, because

1761
01:30:18,000 --> 01:30:19,840
Speaker 18: all of a sudden, it wasn't about his performance for

1762
01:30:19,880 --> 01:30:22,080
Speaker 18: one more year, it was about five more years. And

1763
01:30:22,120 --> 01:30:24,120
Speaker 18: I think that there's a lot of merit to that argument.

1764
01:30:24,400 --> 01:30:26,000
Speaker 18: And then again, you know, look at the Wall Street

1765
01:30:26,040 --> 01:30:28,120
Speaker 18: Journal story in June that is an example of more

1766
01:30:28,200 --> 01:30:31,559
Speaker 18: aggressive coverage once he was running for reelection. I also

1767
01:30:31,600 --> 01:30:34,880
Speaker 18: think we're talking about a story that's inherently complex and uncomfortable.

1768
01:30:34,880 --> 01:30:38,000
Speaker 18: It's about someone getting older. Many of us have experiences

1769
01:30:38,000 --> 01:30:40,439
Speaker 18: with a parent or a grandparent. We all have lived

1770
01:30:40,439 --> 01:30:44,120
Speaker 18: experience here, which does you know there's a relevant part

1771
01:30:44,120 --> 01:30:45,960
Speaker 18: of the story, right. People don't want to live in

1772
01:30:46,000 --> 01:30:48,160
Speaker 18: a griontocracy, and I think that came through in the

1773
01:30:48,200 --> 01:30:49,599
Speaker 18: news coverage in the last couple of years.

1774
01:30:49,720 --> 01:30:50,479
Speaker 6: The polls have been.

1775
01:30:50,400 --> 01:30:53,559
Speaker 18: Clear all along that Americans believed Biden was too old

1776
01:30:54,040 --> 01:30:56,519
Speaker 18: to serve for another four years and Trump as well

1777
01:30:56,560 --> 01:30:59,080
Speaker 18: for that matter. Americans don't want these two choices, right.

1778
01:30:59,120 --> 01:31:01,120
Speaker 18: I think that has come through in the coverage. We've

1779
01:31:01,120 --> 01:31:03,599
Speaker 18: heard about double haters. But I think here's the challenge

1780
01:31:03,640 --> 01:31:07,320
Speaker 18: with covering aging. It's not an immediate flood. And news

1781
01:31:07,360 --> 01:31:10,799
Speaker 18: outlets are really good at covering floods, Like I helped cover.

1782
01:31:10,640 --> 01:31:11,519
Speaker 6: Floods for CNN.

1783
01:31:11,720 --> 01:31:14,200
Speaker 18: You know it's an emergency, it's happening immediately, you can

1784
01:31:14,240 --> 01:31:15,599
Speaker 18: see it happening in real time.

1785
01:31:16,040 --> 01:31:18,240
Speaker 6: It's a lot harder to cover a drip drip, drip,

1786
01:31:18,320 --> 01:31:18,720
Speaker 6: drip drip.

1787
01:31:18,720 --> 01:31:21,559
Speaker 18: And isn't this a drip drip story where Biden is,

1788
01:31:21,600 --> 01:31:24,839
Speaker 18: you know, gradually declining. That's at least what it appears

1789
01:31:24,880 --> 01:31:27,320
Speaker 18: from from you know, many people's eyes. I went and

1790
01:31:27,320 --> 01:31:29,599
Speaker 18: saw them in Philadelphia two years ago, two summers ago,

1791
01:31:29,640 --> 01:31:32,120
Speaker 18: that democracy speech. People now remember it as the one

1792
01:31:32,160 --> 01:31:35,479
Speaker 18: with the blood red background that looked really eerie, but

1793
01:31:35,520 --> 01:31:38,599
Speaker 18: it was this fantastic speaking speech in Independent Independence Hall.

1794
01:31:39,200 --> 01:31:41,400
Speaker 18: He's a very different person than he was two years

1795
01:31:41,439 --> 01:31:45,200
Speaker 18: ago when he delivered that speech. But it's been drip, drip, drip,

1796
01:31:45,320 --> 01:31:47,400
Speaker 18: and I think drip drip drip is hard for It's

1797
01:31:47,439 --> 01:31:49,840
Speaker 18: inherently harder for journals to cover. I say that not

1798
01:31:49,920 --> 01:31:52,200
Speaker 18: to let them off the hook, but just to recognize

1799
01:31:52,240 --> 01:31:54,000
Speaker 18: this is a this is a tough it's a.

1800
01:31:54,040 --> 01:31:55,160
Speaker 6: It's a tough story.

1801
01:31:55,280 --> 01:31:57,799
Speaker 18: It's a lot harder than pointing out when why President

1802
01:31:57,880 --> 01:32:00,320
Speaker 18: Trump was lying on Twitter, which, as you know, Emily,

1803
01:32:00,360 --> 01:32:01,080
Speaker 18: I loved to do that.

1804
01:32:02,280 --> 01:32:06,720
Speaker 6: Well, typos. It's really easy to call out the typos.

1805
01:32:07,520 --> 01:32:10,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, there were many of them, and there continue to

1806
01:32:10,880 --> 01:32:11,559
Speaker 4: be many of them.

1807
01:32:12,040 --> 01:32:12,160
Speaker 18: Uh.

1808
01:32:12,360 --> 01:32:14,680
Speaker 4: The cheap fake sort of trend is one thing I

1809
01:32:14,720 --> 01:32:17,479
Speaker 4: also want to ask about because it's you know, it's

1810
01:32:17,479 --> 01:32:20,040
Speaker 4: it's there is genuinely an interesting question here. You tweeted

1811
01:32:20,040 --> 01:32:23,280
Speaker 4: a Washington Post article about it was like cheap pig

1812
01:32:23,400 --> 01:32:27,000
Speaker 4: video Biden videos and rapture right wing media but deeply mislead.

1813
01:32:27,000 --> 01:32:28,960
Speaker 4: That's the Post headline. And I think this is a

1814
01:32:28,960 --> 01:32:33,000
Speaker 4: Glenn Kessler. Uh, yeah, it's a Glenn Custer. Adriana Usero

1815
01:32:33,439 --> 01:32:37,640
Speaker 4: analysis of the videos from the G seven summit, and

1816
01:32:37,680 --> 01:32:40,320
Speaker 4: there was some deceptive editing of those. But what's interesting

1817
01:32:40,400 --> 01:32:43,000
Speaker 4: is it gets back into this sort of subjective question

1818
01:32:43,560 --> 01:32:46,000
Speaker 4: of was the so many people in the media really

1819
01:32:46,000 --> 01:32:48,040
Speaker 4: did take that cheap fake line almost straight from the

1820
01:32:48,040 --> 01:32:48,479
Speaker 4: White House?

1821
01:32:48,600 --> 01:32:50,280
Speaker 7: Was the White House response, and.

1822
01:32:50,280 --> 01:32:53,400
Speaker 4: Say, use it to kind of define that line of

1823
01:32:53,400 --> 01:32:57,360
Speaker 4: attack from the right as almost entirely one of cheap fakes.

1824
01:32:57,360 --> 01:33:00,960
Speaker 7: It was all, you know, bad faith, rather than.

1825
01:33:00,840 --> 01:33:03,880
Speaker 4: There was something real there, which you have since said,

1826
01:33:04,040 --> 01:33:06,160
Speaker 4: you think there are real problems in these videos.

1827
01:33:06,439 --> 01:33:07,360
Speaker 7: So do you think the.

1828
01:33:07,360 --> 01:33:10,400
Speaker 4: Media was overly credulous, was overly willing again to give

1829
01:33:10,400 --> 01:33:11,880
Speaker 4: the benefit of the doubt to the White House with

1830
01:33:11,920 --> 01:33:14,880
Speaker 4: the cheap fake line instead of like, for me, the

1831
01:33:14,960 --> 01:33:17,519
Speaker 4: main story there as a journalist is that Joe Biden

1832
01:33:17,560 --> 01:33:20,000
Speaker 4: often looks like he's zoning out, that he's having trouble.

1833
01:33:20,200 --> 01:33:22,800
Speaker 4: There are people at the G seven telling media outlets.

1834
01:33:23,000 --> 01:33:24,800
Speaker 4: The New York Post had a story about this that

1835
01:33:25,080 --> 01:33:27,960
Speaker 4: he didn't seem Well, that's the headline story for me,

1836
01:33:28,120 --> 01:33:31,599
Speaker 4: not that the RNC is doing partisan hackery and putting out,

1837
01:33:31,640 --> 01:33:35,160
Speaker 4: you know, potentially cheap fake videos. That's a totally secondary

1838
01:33:35,200 --> 01:33:37,320
Speaker 4: story to me, but the media elevated it to be

1839
01:33:37,800 --> 01:33:40,519
Speaker 4: ahead of the story at the time about Biden's health itself.

1840
01:33:42,120 --> 01:33:44,599
Speaker 18: Well, yes, except I think it depends on who and

1841
01:33:44,640 --> 01:33:47,559
Speaker 18: what we mean by media right. As always, I think

1842
01:33:47,600 --> 01:33:50,680
Speaker 18: if you were listening to Fox's coverage of Biden in

1843
01:33:50,720 --> 01:33:53,920
Speaker 18: recent months, you might feel better informed right now than

1844
01:33:53,920 --> 01:33:56,000
Speaker 18: if you were reading liberal blogs.

1845
01:33:56,040 --> 01:33:58,400
Speaker 6: And that's a problem. Right.

1846
01:33:58,640 --> 01:34:00,439
Speaker 18: At the same time, I think some of the videos

1847
01:34:00,479 --> 01:34:03,720
Speaker 18: Fox was showing were misleading, not all of them, some

1848
01:34:03,760 --> 01:34:07,719
Speaker 18: of them, and so it's complicated. Some were cheap fakes,

1849
01:34:07,720 --> 01:34:10,720
Speaker 18: and some were legitimate, and they were all and yes,

1850
01:34:10,760 --> 01:34:12,240
Speaker 18: it is true. The White House, I think, tried to

1851
01:34:12,800 --> 01:34:14,519
Speaker 18: claim all of them were BS.

1852
01:34:14,760 --> 01:34:14,920
Speaker 16: Right.

1853
01:34:14,960 --> 01:34:16,800
Speaker 18: I was texting with a White House eight of the

1854
01:34:16,880 --> 01:34:20,639
Speaker 18: time I was hearing that storyline that this is BS.

1855
01:34:22,000 --> 01:34:24,280
Speaker 18: When I think Glen Kessler does a fact check, he's

1856
01:34:24,320 --> 01:34:29,040
Speaker 18: doing something narrow, but it does then create this broader

1857
01:34:29,120 --> 01:34:32,559
Speaker 18: perception that you should just ignore. I mean, what you're

1858
01:34:32,600 --> 01:34:35,639
Speaker 18: hitting him was really interesting. Was like the implication then

1859
01:34:35,760 --> 01:34:38,400
Speaker 18: is just don't pay attention to this because it's all

1860
01:34:38,520 --> 01:34:39,120
Speaker 18: just noise.

1861
01:34:39,760 --> 01:34:43,280
Speaker 6: And that attitude benefited Biden for a while.

1862
01:34:43,080 --> 01:34:45,639
Speaker 4: Right, right, And why not fact check the White House

1863
01:34:45,640 --> 01:34:48,120
Speaker 4: when they say this other video is just a cheap fake,

1864
01:34:48,120 --> 01:34:49,560
Speaker 4: when it's not a cheap fake, Why not do a

1865
01:34:49,600 --> 01:34:51,599
Speaker 4: fact check of that instead of the fact check.

1866
01:34:51,439 --> 01:34:51,960
Speaker 7: Of the RNC.

1867
01:34:52,479 --> 01:34:54,320
Speaker 4: The focus to me just seemed to be more of

1868
01:34:54,320 --> 01:34:56,479
Speaker 4: that kind of benefit of the doubt before the debate,

1869
01:34:56,600 --> 01:34:58,759
Speaker 4: and then the debate through that all at the window.

1870
01:34:59,280 --> 01:35:01,479
Speaker 18: I think it depends on constituency as well, though I

1871
01:35:01,600 --> 01:35:04,640
Speaker 18: now see a whole lot of progressives who want the

1872
01:35:04,720 --> 01:35:08,320
Speaker 18: media to be democratic activists, who who are demanding that

1873
01:35:08,360 --> 01:35:11,760
Speaker 18: the media perform the role of democratic lawmakers. And I

1874
01:35:11,800 --> 01:35:14,400
Speaker 18: think there's oftentimes this this mix up about what the

1875
01:35:14,520 --> 01:35:18,360
Speaker 18: role of the journalists should be versus an activist, versus

1876
01:35:18,400 --> 01:35:22,320
Speaker 18: a partisan commentator versus a lawmaker. Like the media is

1877
01:35:22,320 --> 01:35:24,519
Speaker 18: not coming to the rescue, right, not against Biden and

1878
01:35:24,520 --> 01:35:27,320
Speaker 18: not against Trump. And I think there's a lot of

1879
01:35:27,760 --> 01:35:31,080
Speaker 18: distortion of that happening right now among desperate Democrats who

1880
01:35:31,520 --> 01:35:35,400
Speaker 18: are freaking out about Trump possibly probably winning.

1881
01:35:35,720 --> 01:35:38,080
Speaker 4: Although some people would argue the media is intentionally coming

1882
01:35:38,120 --> 01:35:40,320
Speaker 4: to the rescue now that they've seen the polling numbers.

1883
01:35:40,439 --> 01:35:44,400
Speaker 18: I just but isn't it doesn't that imply conspiracy? Like,

1884
01:35:44,680 --> 01:35:46,599
Speaker 18: doesn't it doesn't that or it's.

1885
01:35:46,560 --> 01:35:48,639
Speaker 4: You know that we played for your former call Don

1886
01:35:48,720 --> 01:35:50,680
Speaker 4: Lemon when he was on the show, this clip of

1887
01:35:51,000 --> 01:35:51,760
Speaker 4: no Chompsky.

1888
01:35:51,840 --> 01:35:54,679
Speaker 7: Actually it was a brilliant Yeah.

1889
01:35:54,720 --> 01:35:57,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's actually a journalist and he's saying, you know, essentially,

1890
01:35:57,360 --> 01:35:59,280
Speaker 4: they don't need to There doesn't have to be a conspiracy.

1891
01:35:59,280 --> 01:36:01,080
Speaker 4: It's more just that you from the same sort of

1892
01:36:01,120 --> 01:36:04,800
Speaker 4: social places, economic socioeconomic status, and you sort of run

1893
01:36:04,800 --> 01:36:07,360
Speaker 4: in the same circles and share a lot of the worldview.

1894
01:36:07,400 --> 01:36:09,400
Speaker 4: So there doesn't have to be a conspiracy so much

1895
01:36:09,400 --> 01:36:11,759
Speaker 4: as you know, it's just most people live in Manhattan,

1896
01:36:11,880 --> 01:36:15,400
Speaker 4: DC and think alike, live similar lives, and come out

1897
01:36:15,400 --> 01:36:17,240
Speaker 4: on these things with a similar perspective.

1898
01:36:17,800 --> 01:36:21,599
Speaker 18: I understand that critique. I think it's important to unpack

1899
01:36:21,640 --> 01:36:25,880
Speaker 18: that critique. It's also what's the phrase, there's a phrase

1900
01:36:25,880 --> 01:36:28,479
Speaker 18: in political science for this, or like it's self ceiling,

1901
01:36:28,600 --> 01:36:31,320
Speaker 18: or it's you can't how do you unprove? How do

1902
01:36:31,360 --> 01:36:32,080
Speaker 18: you disprove it?

1903
01:36:32,160 --> 01:36:32,360
Speaker 15: Right?

1904
01:36:32,920 --> 01:36:34,720
Speaker 6: Because if I if I try to talk against that

1905
01:36:34,760 --> 01:36:37,920
Speaker 6: talking point, then I sound like I must. I must.

1906
01:36:37,960 --> 01:36:40,280
Speaker 6: Just I don't see it in front of myself here.

1907
01:36:40,320 --> 01:36:42,200
Speaker 18: I mean, here's what I know about myself, right, I

1908
01:36:42,280 --> 01:36:44,439
Speaker 18: was a kid from a lower middle class background in

1909
01:36:44,479 --> 01:36:47,439
Speaker 18: Maryland who went to a state school, joined the New

1910
01:36:47,520 --> 01:36:50,280
Speaker 18: York Times, got to CNN, like probably not a typical

1911
01:36:50,439 --> 01:36:53,120
Speaker 18: path into CNN, but it is true that once you're

1912
01:36:53,160 --> 01:36:57,800
Speaker 18: inside a giant national news organization, you are aware that, uh,

1913
01:36:57,960 --> 01:36:59,880
Speaker 18: you know that lots of people are watching, that there's

1914
01:36:59,880 --> 01:37:02,719
Speaker 18: a certain you know, vibe that comes from the news coverage.

1915
01:37:02,720 --> 01:37:06,080
Speaker 18: Certain stories are considered breaking news. That's true, But I

1916
01:37:06,120 --> 01:37:09,880
Speaker 18: don't think that within that reality though. I think you

1917
01:37:09,920 --> 01:37:13,160
Speaker 18: do have incredible diversity at these news organizations, and that's

1918
01:37:13,160 --> 01:37:15,960
Speaker 18: how it should be, and you need that diversity. But

1919
01:37:16,040 --> 01:37:18,000
Speaker 18: you know, I don't know, I'm not as smart as known,

1920
01:37:18,479 --> 01:37:19,000
Speaker 18: none of us all.

1921
01:37:19,560 --> 01:37:22,080
Speaker 3: Well, now I'm curious that that was my path too,

1922
01:37:22,120 --> 01:37:23,960
Speaker 3: though we were we were kind of looking up maybe

1923
01:37:23,960 --> 01:37:26,640
Speaker 3: at lower middle from Maryland, but also Maryland where and

1924
01:37:26,800 --> 01:37:29,160
Speaker 3: also state school in Maryland. Where in Maryland is curious

1925
01:37:29,200 --> 01:37:29,840
Speaker 3: I grew I grew.

1926
01:37:29,720 --> 01:37:31,600
Speaker 18: Up in Damascus in norm mcgam mc County, and then

1927
01:37:31,600 --> 01:37:34,120
Speaker 18: I went to Tawson University. And you know what I

1928
01:37:34,120 --> 01:37:36,040
Speaker 18: appreciate about that in the story that I you know,

1929
01:37:36,200 --> 01:37:38,000
Speaker 18: we all tell a story about ourselves, right, what our

1930
01:37:38,000 --> 01:37:40,840
Speaker 18: own narrative is What I like about my narrative, if

1931
01:37:40,840 --> 01:37:43,200
Speaker 18: I have one, is that I went through side doors.

1932
01:37:43,240 --> 01:37:44,800
Speaker 18: I didn't go through the front door, right, I didn't

1933
01:37:44,800 --> 01:37:47,479
Speaker 18: submit a resume. I was able to get to the

1934
01:37:47,520 --> 01:37:49,640
Speaker 18: New York Times through a blog by blogging, and I

1935
01:37:49,720 --> 01:37:51,960
Speaker 18: was got to the CNN through my work at the Times.

1936
01:37:51,960 --> 01:37:55,120
Speaker 18: And so I like that those paths exists in a

1937
01:37:55,120 --> 01:37:57,719
Speaker 18: way they didn't exist thirty years ago before the Internet,

1938
01:37:58,000 --> 01:38:00,479
Speaker 18: because I think it does bring in different kinds people

1939
01:38:00,479 --> 01:38:03,600
Speaker 18: into newsrooms and that can be hopefully advantageous to the

1940
01:38:03,640 --> 01:38:04,480
Speaker 18: media coverage.

1941
01:38:04,560 --> 01:38:06,599
Speaker 3: Well, Cool, I mean, it's been good to talk with you.

1942
01:38:06,439 --> 01:38:09,520
Speaker 7: You got anything else, Emily, just appreciate the conversation.

1943
01:38:09,680 --> 01:38:11,519
Speaker 6: Thanks Brian, Cool, Thanks guys.

1944
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Speaker 3: All right, all right, well that'll do it for us

1945
01:38:14,439 --> 01:38:17,840
Speaker 3: for Counterpoints today for our Friday show, we're going to

1946
01:38:17,920 --> 01:38:23,519
Speaker 3: have jenk Yuger versus Dimitri Melhorne talking about the whether

1947
01:38:23,600 --> 01:38:26,679
Speaker 3: or not Biden should stay in the race. Dimitrian Melhorn

1948
01:38:26,800 --> 01:38:29,680
Speaker 3: is a kind of a Democratic mega donor and organizer.

1949
01:38:30,520 --> 01:38:34,640
Speaker 3: Jenk Uger, obviously the co founder or founder of TYT

1950
01:38:34,760 --> 01:38:39,720
Speaker 3: and presidential candidate ran against Joe Biden. His theory was

1951
01:38:39,720 --> 01:38:43,759
Speaker 3: that somebody was going to start getting like thirty percent,

1952
01:38:43,880 --> 01:38:48,360
Speaker 3: and that in like in nineteen sixty eight, would show

1953
01:38:49,280 --> 01:38:51,960
Speaker 3: LBJ slash Biden that he needed to drop out and

1954
01:38:52,040 --> 01:38:56,320
Speaker 3: show other more serious candidates who could actually win that

1955
01:38:56,400 --> 01:38:58,920
Speaker 3: they should step in. Yeah, and that's when you know

1956
01:38:59,160 --> 01:39:04,639
Speaker 3: RFKS Senior and others jumped in and LBJ dropped out.

1957
01:39:05,000 --> 01:39:07,920
Speaker 3: That didn't play out. But Jenks theory was never that

1958
01:39:08,040 --> 01:39:09,920
Speaker 3: he was going to be the nominee. It was that

1959
01:39:10,000 --> 01:39:12,800
Speaker 3: he would like let a spark, But that didn't play out.

1960
01:39:13,320 --> 01:39:16,120
Speaker 3: Democrats were like Noah and in a bunch of they

1961
01:39:16,200 --> 01:39:18,080
Speaker 3: barely let him on the ballot, actually didn't. I don't

1962
01:39:18,080 --> 01:39:19,240
Speaker 3: think he got on a single ballot.

1963
01:39:19,400 --> 01:39:22,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, it's gonna be interesting. And Ryan, like you said,

1964
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Speaker 4: it's a debate that basically wouldn't happen anywhere else. And

1965
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Speaker 4: I think we can say the same thing for our

1966
01:39:26,000 --> 01:39:29,240
Speaker 4: last segment with Brian Stelter. You know, I can think

1967
01:39:29,280 --> 01:39:31,759
Speaker 4: a few places that have been as critical of Brian

1968
01:39:31,760 --> 01:39:36,000
Speaker 4: Stelter as breaking Points and frankly Federalists where I worked

1969
01:39:36,080 --> 01:39:39,840
Speaker 4: during the Trump and your frustration. So that was unusual

1970
01:39:39,960 --> 01:39:42,160
Speaker 4: in a good way and interesting. The other thing I

1971
01:39:42,160 --> 01:39:43,680
Speaker 4: want to add is that I will be at the

1972
01:39:43,760 --> 01:39:48,200
Speaker 4: R and C next week. I think, I know it's crazy.

1973
01:39:48,360 --> 01:39:49,479
Speaker 3: I think I'm gonna be able to make it.

1974
01:39:49,520 --> 01:39:49,720
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1975
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll hopefully be doing the show from there back

1976
01:39:52,640 --> 01:39:54,480
Speaker 4: to my home state of Wisconsin.

1977
01:39:54,520 --> 01:39:58,520
Speaker 7: So if you are in the area and you want.

1978
01:39:58,280 --> 01:40:03,000
Speaker 4: To if you have like something interesting, story tip, anything

1979
01:40:03,080 --> 01:40:05,680
Speaker 4: like that, get in touch with Breaking Points just send

1980
01:40:05,680 --> 01:40:08,720
Speaker 4: an email and they'll forward them onto me. And you know,

1981
01:40:08,800 --> 01:40:12,439
Speaker 4: we're eager to cover what's going on in the ground

1982
01:40:12,439 --> 01:40:15,280
Speaker 4: in Wisconsin and general. It's an important state and to

1983
01:40:15,520 --> 01:40:17,200
Speaker 4: have some eyes on the RNC. Have been a lot

1984
01:40:17,200 --> 01:40:19,600
Speaker 4: of interesting stuff coming out of there, and obviously the

1985
01:40:19,640 --> 01:40:22,160
Speaker 4: team will be at the DNC as well, so stay

1986
01:40:22,160 --> 01:40:25,800
Speaker 4: tuned for more coverage on that. Subscribe premium Breakingpoints dot

1987
01:40:25,840 --> 01:40:28,160
Speaker 4: com to get kind of points Friday early in your

1988
01:40:28,160 --> 01:40:30,200
Speaker 4: inbox and they get this whole show for early in

1989
01:40:30,240 --> 01:40:31,080
Speaker 4: your inbox as well.

1990
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Speaker 3: Yep, we'll see you guys soon.