Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I and Matt.
Speaker 1: Today we're discussing quitting your job the right way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's pretty clear from the title of this episode what
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about. We were just actually before we
Speaker 1: hit recorded. We're talking about the flight attendant who uh
Speaker 1: this is a while ago, like, was it ten years ago?
Speaker 1: Roughly at least the flight attendant who quit by pulling
Speaker 1: the escape patch while on the runway down the slide intable, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the inflatable slide with a couple of beers. Basically, what
Speaker 1: we're talking about today is quitting the opposite way and
Speaker 1: not doing it that way, the exact opposite, and so
Speaker 1: we will go into detail later on during this episode.
Speaker 1: Real quick, though, man, we wanted to talk about the
Speaker 1: How Do Money socks that we just ordered. I'm sure
Speaker 1: folks have been waiting for this announcement. It was episode
Speaker 1: five hundred where we talked about sending out some merchandise
Speaker 1: to listeners whose money tip we featured on the show,
Speaker 1: and it has taken us this long to actually get
Speaker 1: that all figured out. Bottom line, we were talking with
Speaker 1: the nice folks over at Sock Fancy, going back and
Speaker 1: forth on the design, trying to figure out what's gonna work,
Speaker 1: and we finally placed the order. We're really excited. They
Speaker 1: look awesome. We are really excited to share those with
Speaker 1: with y'all. Definitely, it's the most money I've ever paid
Speaker 1: for socks before. I don't normally buy a hundred pairs
Speaker 1: of socks at once, because you don't get your socks
Speaker 1: at Costco, where they buy at least a hundred pairs
Speaker 1: of time. Well, in the same way, you do get
Speaker 1: that quantity discount, which we got. But even still, we
Speaker 1: received the invoice and we're getting ready to pay it,
Speaker 1: and we're like, oh, what if we can maybe score
Speaker 1: some sort of discounts, some sort of sales. See if
Speaker 1: there's an your promo codes that they're offering. We wouldn't
Speaker 1: be the how the money guys. We didn't try naturally,
Speaker 1: we reached out and it turns out, I mean, we
Speaker 1: did get to know them over the past couple of weeks.
Speaker 1: As you know, you go back and forth, you kind
Speaker 1: of build a relations and ship, you build some rapport,
Speaker 1: and the guy was like, hey, you know what, you
Speaker 1: got it. You guys will get the friends and family discount,
Speaker 1: which was a ten percent discount code, and so we
Speaker 1: were able to score a deal on the How the
Speaker 1: Money Socks, which is only appropriate. You didn't even have
Speaker 1: to marry his sister Matt to get it, no, And
Speaker 1: so we wanted to share this because we think that
Speaker 1: in most situations it is okay to ask for a discount. Obviously,
Speaker 1: there are going to be some situations where it's inappropriate,
Speaker 1: specifically when you're dealing with like a corporation and you're
Speaker 1: standing in the check online at the grocery store, like
Speaker 1: they're not gonna just be like, oh yeah, let me
Speaker 1: give you ten percent off. That's not normally going to
Speaker 1: be the case. No, but I will ask for the
Speaker 1: actual price that's reflected on the sticker on the aisle
Speaker 1: where I got the item, and because sometimes it will
Speaker 1: ring up in correctly and not all wait patiently for
Speaker 1: the price correction pushed back a little bit. But in
Speaker 1: a lot of cases, especially when you're dealing with individuals,
Speaker 1: you can ask for a discount, and oftentimes it comes
Speaker 1: down to how it is that you ask for that discount.
Speaker 1: We talked about this back in the episode three seventy seven,
Speaker 1: and in a similar fashion, it was down to how
Speaker 1: you quit because you can go about it the wrong way,
Speaker 1: just like you can ask for a discount the wrong way.
Speaker 1: But we think that there is a right way and
Speaker 1: a wrong way to do everything. So just like asking
Speaker 1: for a discount, that's what we're talking about today, quitting
Speaker 1: the right way, you gotta do it with finesse, you
Speaker 1: gotta do it with style. Yeah, And similarly, there is
Speaker 1: a way that you could have asked for this discount,
Speaker 1: and it would have been much easier for this guy
Speaker 1: to say no, and I could have made his job
Speaker 1: very easy. Yeah, the charge was the full asking price, right,
Speaker 1: but there are ways you could have gotten shut down
Speaker 1: really quickly, just by the way that you asked. And
Speaker 1: and similarly, the way that you quit can impact your
Speaker 1: future job prospects and your immediate future. Especially we're gonna
Speaker 1: talk about people going back to work for the company
Speaker 1: that they quit, and so if you end up doing
Speaker 1: that poorly, well if that's not really an option anymore.
Speaker 1: But we'll get to all that in just a minute. First, Matt,
Speaker 1: let's mentioned the beer that we're having on this episode.
Speaker 1: It's called Bumblestick Nut Brown Ale by Burmari Brewing. We
Speaker 1: will give our thoughts on this cinnamony beer at the
Speaker 1: end of the episode. But okay, so let's talk about
Speaker 1: quitting your job and doing it the right way, and
Speaker 1: it just talking about quitting, talking about, you know, asking
Speaker 1: for a deal, talking about all sorts of there's just
Speaker 1: a right and a wrong way to do almost everything.
Speaker 1: It makes me think of putting your toilet paper on
Speaker 1: the toilet paper holder. I think personally there is a
Speaker 1: right way and a wrong way to do this. So
Speaker 1: many people have the toilet paper coming out the bottom.
Speaker 1: Crazy people with it dispensing against the wall. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's where my hand is. I am on the wall side. No, no,
Speaker 1: I'm across from the wall, Like are you crazy? But
Speaker 1: obviously the toilet paper should be coming out the top, right,
Speaker 1: Like the same person installs their toilet paper. It makes
Speaker 1: you think. Also, maybe someone at the beach and you
Speaker 1: see them in their beat red and they are without
Speaker 1: their shirt on, and it's like they didn't learn their lesson,
Speaker 1: Like you forgot to apply sunscreen the first day, and
Speaker 1: now you're doubling down by keeping your shirt off even
Speaker 1: though you already look like a lobster. How do they
Speaker 1: not know that sunscreen works? Magic, it'll save your booty.
Speaker 1: And same with a T shirt, I guess when you're
Speaker 1: already read. But and just like there are ways to
Speaker 1: screw up your beach trip and your every day bathroom trips,
Speaker 1: you can screw up majorrely when when you're quitting a job,
Speaker 1: and so quitting poorly it just really can have long
Speaker 1: term ramifications. But so can quitting a job the right way.
Speaker 1: It can actually be a boost to your career. And
Speaker 1: it might seem weird maybe to dedicate a whole episode
Speaker 1: to this, but trust us, there's a lot to unpack. Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: quitting is it's a it's a complex topic. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: part of the reason that we believe that this topic
Speaker 1: is important to cover is because more employees and more
Speaker 1: workers are quitting than ever before. We're still experiencing the
Speaker 1: Great Resignation, which started back in the spring of last year.
Speaker 1: But there's a chance that you may have even been
Speaker 1: part of the big quit yourself. But if you weren't,
Speaker 1: you might be thinking to yourself that this this is
Speaker 1: a fantastic time to make the most of a vigorous
Speaker 1: job market. Uh, And so you might be parting ways
Speaker 1: with your employers soon. And we want to make sure
Speaker 1: that you do it the right way, because you know,
Speaker 1: let's be honest, the stakes are are pretty low when
Speaker 1: it comes to which way you put your toilet paper
Speaker 1: on the toilet paper roll. The steaks are gonna be
Speaker 1: much higher if you handle your job quitting poorly. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I will say the stakes are high if I come
Speaker 1: over to your house and I find your toilet paper
Speaker 1: on the wrong way because old trashes, I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: be your friend anymore. It annoys me. Well, but let's
Speaker 1: talk about the why to here, because part of the
Speaker 1: discussion we need to talk about is is why you're
Speaker 1: wanting to quit in the first place, and statistics show
Speaker 1: that switching jobs is the best way to earn more money.
Speaker 1: This show is called How the Money, so people obviously
Speaker 1: want to know more about that side of the equations
Speaker 1: are main angle dude, or saving more, earning more exactly,
Speaker 1: and and the the average. Just talk about the emotional components.
Speaker 1: How it's gonna make you feel, Yeah, exactly. Let's talk
Speaker 1: about our feelings a whole bit. Actually, we will talk
Speaker 1: about that comes into feelings a little bit, because that
Speaker 1: is important. Well, I think it's it's very important. And
Speaker 1: we need to discuss that too. But but when it
Speaker 1: comes to compensation, the average wage jump is is almost
Speaker 1: higher when you switch jobs. That's that's on average, and
Speaker 1: when you opt to stay with your current employer, the
Speaker 1: average wage increases closer to five So you're making more
Speaker 1: money with every paycheck. It's a great thing because you're
Speaker 1: gonna be able to reach your financial goals more quickly.
Speaker 1: But like you said, Matt, it's it's important to think
Speaker 1: about other factors. To one of the other factors, specifically
Speaker 1: in in the money in the context of money, is
Speaker 1: to be sure to factor in your total compensation, not
Speaker 1: just the headline salary number. I think sometimes people think
Speaker 1: just about, well, am I going to get a boost
Speaker 1: in pay, but you're missing out maybe on some of
Speaker 1: the other benefits that your current employer offers that might
Speaker 1: actually put those salaries more in line with each other.
Speaker 1: So we want to make sure that you hear us
Speaker 1: clear clearly. Quitting isn't an inherently bad thing, but even
Speaker 1: good things can be done badly, and especially when money
Speaker 1: and benefits are on the line, we want to make
Speaker 1: sure that you're not screwing it up. Yeah, before we
Speaker 1: go any further, let's go ahead and kind of touch
Speaker 1: on emotions a little bit because what it makes me
Speaker 1: think about our alleys doing the emotional side of things.
Speaker 1: It is important to be well rounded here because just
Speaker 1: think about what we've lived through over the past two years,
Speaker 1: right like that it has had a significant act on
Speaker 1: all areas of our lives, including our work lives. And
Speaker 1: so it makes sense that covid UH and it's disruptive
Speaker 1: effects that it might lead folks to make some different choices.
Speaker 1: But it is also important to avoid emotional decision making
Speaker 1: because changing jobs it can be a wonderful thing, but
Speaker 1: the grass isn't always greener on the other side. It's
Speaker 1: it's easy to think that though, when your emotions are
Speaker 1: in charge, you know, considering that, I think for most people,
Speaker 1: the fact that the pandemic is behind us, like that
Speaker 1: the worst might be behind us, that is encouraging because
Speaker 1: I think that means we might be able to make
Speaker 1: decisions with the more level head as opposed to feeling
Speaker 1: like that we might be making decisions based on emotions.
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking back to what it looked like when
Speaker 1: our kids were virtual schooling or learning at home. We
Speaker 1: couldn't visit our friends and towards exactly just pitsion fits
Speaker 1: and refusing to get on the computers. And look, we
Speaker 1: couldn't travel. There are so many things that we couldn't
Speaker 1: do that I know personally it was difficult. Kate and
Speaker 1: I we were thinking about making some significant changes to
Speaker 1: our lives, but we were recogniz eyes that you know what,
Speaker 1: I don't think this is the best time to make
Speaker 1: a major, significant disruptive change like this in our lives
Speaker 1: while we are currently in the midst of something that
Speaker 1: feels incredibly disruptive. Sometimes right in the middle of a
Speaker 1: stressful situation, you will choose to do something that is
Speaker 1: not in your long term best interest because you just
Speaker 1: gotta get get out of that. Situations like the fight
Speaker 1: or flight right and and interestingly enough, matt one survey
Speaker 1: showed that three quarters of folks who changed jobs during
Speaker 1: the pandemic have admitted feeling surprise or regret. And basically,
Speaker 1: I think what they found out was maybe their new
Speaker 1: employer overpromised and under delivered. That that was the case
Speaker 1: for a lot of folks, where it certainly seemed like
Speaker 1: they were jumping ship to two sun of your skies,
Speaker 1: and in reality, the job, the work environment wasn't like
Speaker 1: they wanted it to be, and so they're just not
Speaker 1: as happy as they thought they were going to be
Speaker 1: after moving on from their old employer. And then there
Speaker 1: was this article published in the Wall Street Journal last
Speaker 1: week about what they're calling boomerang hiring, and uh, it
Speaker 1: turns out a lot of employees who left in a hurry,
Speaker 1: they're finding themselves on happy in a new role with
Speaker 1: another company, and so they're they're like asking for their
Speaker 1: old jobs back. Many have only been in their new
Speaker 1: role for three, four or five months and they're reinterviewing
Speaker 1: with their old company. They're going back to an old
Speaker 1: position or to a new position that's been created for
Speaker 1: them at their old employer. And so it's just important.
Speaker 1: All that stuff kind of goes in and it makes
Speaker 1: me think that it's important to be quitting for the
Speaker 1: right reasons. That is what's going to help minimize regret.
Speaker 1: You don't want to, like you said, not be making
Speaker 1: an emotional, knee jerk decision, because I think that's going
Speaker 1: to have the most significant potential for a lot of regret. Yeah,
Speaker 1: not only is it important to make sure that you're
Speaker 1: quitting the right way, but that you're doing it for
Speaker 1: the right reasons. Okay, so let's talk about what you
Speaker 1: can do if you are thinking about quitting. If you
Speaker 1: love your job but low pay is the main reason
Speaker 1: for leaving, it's worth having that conversation before you know
Speaker 1: you show up and slap down your two week notice.
Speaker 1: Your manager or your boss might have a lot of
Speaker 1: leeway to provide a meaningful pay increase right now, but
Speaker 1: only if you ask them, And so quitting in order
Speaker 1: to get paid more, it's it is a legitim reason
Speaker 1: to move on. You know, if you can get paid
Speaker 1: more with another company, leaving might be the right course
Speaker 1: of action. But if you love your current employer and
Speaker 1: you're realizing that, you know what, the only thing that's
Speaker 1: really causing me to look elsewhere is the pay, then
Speaker 1: give them a shot keeping you with a salary increase.
Speaker 1: Don't leave without at least asking for for higher pay.
Speaker 1: And the same thing can be true to not just
Speaker 1: for for pay, but maybe it's just some different opportunities
Speaker 1: that you're looking for, or maybe you're looking for a
Speaker 1: different role within that company. Assuming that it's a great
Speaker 1: company that that you enjoy working for, make sure that
Speaker 1: you don't leave without having that conversation. It makes me
Speaker 1: think of like, let's say you left your partner because
Speaker 1: they put their toilet paper on the wrong side of
Speaker 1: the role, like they were doing it incorrectly, and you
Speaker 1: never even have the conversation. Yeah, it's like no, no, wait,
Speaker 1: if they're perfectly every other way, have the conversation because
Speaker 1: it's it's one of those things that can get worked out. Right,
Speaker 1: you want to leave over something like that, well, that's
Speaker 1: the thing to do with it. It's a big deal.
Speaker 1: But you still don't want to leave over or something
Speaker 1: like like. Again, as I think over the think through
Speaker 1: the past two years, I do think that we have
Speaker 1: stopped making for progres us in how well that we're
Speaker 1: able to communicate with with other folks, especially in person,
Speaker 1: because I mean, so many folks are working from home.
Speaker 1: They are interacting with their bosses and their coworkers digitally,
Speaker 1: and sometimes you do need that face to face. Yeah, agreed.
Speaker 1: All right, Let's talk about flexibility too, because that's that's
Speaker 1: another reason that folks might consider leaving their job. Work
Speaker 1: from home is is obviously one of the things that
Speaker 1: people want a whole lot of. And so if your
Speaker 1: company has called you back into the office, but you've
Speaker 1: gotten used to not coming into to not commuting. I
Speaker 1: guess I get the distaste for being back in the
Speaker 1: office full time. Like we talked about recently, there there
Speaker 1: are some perks for going back into the office, especially
Speaker 1: for folks who are earlier on in their careers and
Speaker 1: for lots of jobs. It's it's just it's just so
Speaker 1: much easier to advance in your career if you're around
Speaker 1: your coworkers, if you're kind of immersed in the company culture,
Speaker 1: and the psychological impacts of being seen at your job.
Speaker 1: They're actually bigger than you think. I think sometimes people
Speaker 1: think that they can progress at the same route in
Speaker 1: their career, that the same at the same speed being
Speaker 1: at home full time, And I just don't think that's
Speaker 1: the case for most people in most companies. Well and
Speaker 1: even just like individual well being, right, like I mean,
Speaker 1: aside from progression and advancements in your career, just like
Speaker 1: you said, like the ability to be seen what I see,
Speaker 1: there is a more personal, sort of deeper human level
Speaker 1: of understanding when when you're able to see somebody and
Speaker 1: appreciate that you know the work that they're doing. When
Speaker 1: you can appreciate them as a human being. That's something
Speaker 1: that is also easier to be done in person than digitally. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think full time work from home has made a
Speaker 1: ton of sense for a large chunk of this time
Speaker 1: that we've had it because it has helped curb the
Speaker 1: spread of a virus. But I do think as things
Speaker 1: are getting back to normal, there are a lot of
Speaker 1: plus sides to being back in the oppress for people.
Speaker 1: And you know, maybe you just really do hate that
Speaker 1: commute though, Like, if it's the case that you still
Speaker 1: don't want to return to the office at all, then
Speaker 1: be sure to talk with your manager or your boss
Speaker 1: to see if there's some sort of middle ground that
Speaker 1: you guys can hammer out. Just start the conversation, because
Speaker 1: that's another thing where you don't want to quit without
Speaker 1: having the convo. There's a chance that these rules aren't
Speaker 1: hard and fast, that they're based on your specific, big
Speaker 1: situation and the value you bring to the company, the
Speaker 1: value you bring to the table that your employer is
Speaker 1: willing to offer a workaround for the schedule that you
Speaker 1: need to keep, And so these are conversations that are
Speaker 1: worth approaching. It's not it's not worth leaving in a
Speaker 1: huff just because the mandate from on high it isn't
Speaker 1: conducive to the way you want a need to work.
Speaker 1: That's right. So let's talk about networking here for a second,
Speaker 1: because even if you're not looking to quit, having a
Speaker 1: robust professional network is always important to do. A friend
Speaker 1: of the show Jordan Harbinger, he calls this digging the
Speaker 1: well before you're thirsty, and so you want to have
Speaker 1: this contacts, You want to have those relationships in place
Speaker 1: before you need them. Makes me think of the show alone.
Speaker 1: We've talked about this here on the show before. It's
Speaker 1: where they get dropped off and h it's really beautiful.
Speaker 1: A lot of times it's it's remote, so you're just like,
Speaker 1: oh wow, this is beautiful, this is amazing. And oftentimes
Speaker 1: the weather is nice. But if you enjoy the scenery,
Speaker 1: maybe a little too long you put off building a
Speaker 1: solid shelter, you put off finding a way to uh
Speaker 1: procure some food, then you are going to be too malnourished.
Speaker 1: You're gonna be too cold to be able to build
Speaker 1: it when you need to build that shelter. In a
Speaker 1: similar way, having a robust network of friends in the
Speaker 1: industry is massively important. And I'm not just talking about
Speaker 1: folks who you think can do something for you in
Speaker 1: the here and now. Looking to help others is also
Speaker 1: an important piece of the networking puzzle. You never know
Speaker 1: when that intern is going to become your boss, right well,
Speaker 1: and don't only look to like the long term when
Speaker 1: it might come full circle. But even just looking to
Speaker 1: some of the different ways that you can assist somebody,
Speaker 1: where you can help somebody advance in their career, is
Speaker 1: just something good to do in and of itself. Yeah,
Speaker 1: networking is. I think networking is a lot of fun,
Speaker 1: just kind of getting to know other people. You're a
Speaker 1: social dude, Yeah, yeah, I just enjoy it anyway. I
Speaker 1: love meeting people of all sorts, of different backgrounds and interests.
Speaker 1: But it can be potentially helpful to you in the future.
Speaker 1: But more than anything, I just think of it as
Speaker 1: a good time, as an enjoyable thing to do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and to be able to help other people is something
Speaker 1: we need more of in the world. We need more
Speaker 1: people not networking just to further their own careers, but
Speaker 1: to really seek to make all of us better. Just
Speaker 1: to not be a jerk. This is more than not
Speaker 1: just being a jerk, like, okay, how can actually be
Speaker 1: a kind and helping persons? Exactly? All right, Matt, We've
Speaker 1: got more to get to you about quitting and doing
Speaker 1: it the right way, and specifically, they are a bunch
Speaker 1: of financial things you need to consider before you quit
Speaker 1: your job, like how do you think about those benefits?
Speaker 1: How do you ensure you get the most out of
Speaker 1: them before you actually walk out the door. We'll talk
Speaker 1: about that right after this. All right, we are back
Speaker 1: from the brink. We're talking about quitting your job the
Speaker 1: right way, and so it's obviously it's crucial to assess
Speaker 1: why it is that you're quitting in order to make
Speaker 1: sure that you're making a good decision. We talked about
Speaker 1: that earlier on. As we said, moving on to a
Speaker 1: new job that can lead to a massive salary bump,
Speaker 1: which can make a big difference not only in month
Speaker 1: to month but also over the years where you're able
Speaker 1: to impact your ability to build wealth. But it's important
Speaker 1: to have your personal finances in solid shape before where
Speaker 1: you take a leap, and the most important part of
Speaker 1: that equation having a robust emergency fund that gives you
Speaker 1: uh the financial ability to whether a period of unemployment,
Speaker 1: if you're quitting without knowing where you're going. So we're
Speaker 1: talking about here, isn't gear one that two thousand phone
Speaker 1: or sixty seven dollars of emergency fund, But you probably
Speaker 1: want to have something a little more solid, something more
Speaker 1: in that three to six months worth of expenses range.
Speaker 1: And that's what's so interesting about this too, because depending
Speaker 1: on your lifestyle, it's this is an incredibly customizable number.
Speaker 1: It all depends on how it is that you live
Speaker 1: your life. It all depends on the expenses that you
Speaker 1: have coming out of your budget every single month. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And one of the ways to make that money extend
Speaker 1: a little bit further in your emergency fund is to
Speaker 1: actually change your budget from the normal budget you use
Speaker 1: every single month to what we call a bare bones budget.
Speaker 1: And that's something we want you to kind of figure
Speaker 1: out ahead of time, so that you can instantly cut
Speaker 1: back if need be, uh, if you end up leaving
Speaker 1: a job and you don't necessarily have a new one yet,
Speaker 1: having a bare bones budget on hand can be really
Speaker 1: helpful because it can help you stretch those dollars even further,
Speaker 1: help you get more months out of your emergency fund
Speaker 1: if need be. It makes me think about when your
Speaker 1: computer when you started up and it's kind of crashing
Speaker 1: or whatever, and it starts up in safe mode or
Speaker 1: a recovery mode or something like that. It's like you,
Speaker 1: you may not be able to do all the things
Speaker 1: that you're able to do before, but it is going
Speaker 1: to allow you to do the bare essentials. And that's
Speaker 1: that's what we're looking for with the bare bones budget.
Speaker 1: That's exactly what we want. That's exactly what we want
Speaker 1: is we want people to have the safety the certainty
Speaker 1: of knowing that they can dial back their expenses like shelter, food, Yeah,
Speaker 1: clothing you you've already got that. You don't need to
Speaker 1: buy new clothes, right, Yeah, you can cut those streaming
Speaker 1: subscription services. There are all sorts of discretionary things that
Speaker 1: you can take out of your budget to make sure
Speaker 1: that your money is going to be there for things
Speaker 1: like the shelter in the transportation, right that you're going
Speaker 1: to need to keep on hand. Yeah, but we would
Speaker 1: prefer for you to have a place to land figured
Speaker 1: out before you quit your job. Of course, it's always
Speaker 1: nice to keep the steady stream of paychecks coming in
Speaker 1: but we realize that's not always possible. But not only
Speaker 1: is it in and to consider your salary, but you
Speaker 1: also need to look at the other other benefits that
Speaker 1: you're leaving behind, Joel, like you alluded to, uh specifically,
Speaker 1: one of the ones I'm thinking of is the f
Speaker 1: s A, the flexible spending account. So this is money
Speaker 1: that you've already stalked away, so make sure that you
Speaker 1: spend it before it straight up evaporates and disappears. This
Speaker 1: is one of those use it or lose it scenarios.
Speaker 1: But the cool thing with f s a s is
Speaker 1: that you can use the full amount that you've elected,
Speaker 1: even if you haven't actually put all that money in yet,
Speaker 1: So keep that in mind. But you can spend this
Speaker 1: f s A money on things like sunglasses or sunscreen, uh,
Speaker 1: like you talked about at the beginning, you want to
Speaker 1: get sun overt to the beach, or just like over
Speaker 1: the counter medications, these are all common ways to spend
Speaker 1: down some of those dollars. Bottom line, you want to avoid.
Speaker 1: Like as we're talking about about benefits, you want to
Speaker 1: make sure that you're not leaving this essentially the stash
Speaker 1: of money, the stash of benefits at your old employer
Speaker 1: before you move on. Yeah, it's it's money that you
Speaker 1: have a right to and you should. Even if you
Speaker 1: have that forty seven bottles of ib often in in
Speaker 1: the closet, it's used them good for like a decade.
Speaker 1: That's right, that's right, and you can, you know, give
Speaker 1: it away for Christmas presents this year if you want.
Speaker 1: And so you know, one other benefit you're gonna want
Speaker 1: to pay attention to before you pull the trigger and
Speaker 1: leave your job is your four oh one K, and
Speaker 1: especially if you have taken out a loan from your
Speaker 1: four oh one K, because quitting is going to impact
Speaker 1: you even more acutely. We're not big fans of taking
Speaker 1: a loan out from your retirement account, although it does
Speaker 1: make sense in some cases. But getting let go or
Speaker 1: quitting is where that loan becomes a real problem. And
Speaker 1: that's because if you don't pay that loan back in
Speaker 1: a timely manner, usually forty five to sixty days, so
Speaker 1: you gotta figure stuff out quick, you will be taxed
Speaker 1: on the outstanding balance of that loan as income. And
Speaker 1: in addition to that, you're gonna owe a ten percent
Speaker 1: penalty if you're under the age of fifty nine and
Speaker 1: a half and that can put you in a tough
Speaker 1: position come tax time. So if you've got a four
Speaker 1: o one k loan, it's it's crucial to figure out
Speaker 1: how you can pay that back before you quit. It's
Speaker 1: not just losing the ability uh the match from your
Speaker 1: employer and the ability to contribute to your retirement accounts.
Speaker 1: If you have a loan, this can lead to severe
Speaker 1: financial consequences if you can't pay it back before you leave.
Speaker 1: That's right, But the good thing about four one k
Speaker 1: loans is that you're just paying yourself back. You're paying
Speaker 1: yourself interest. But we're not going to dive into all
Speaker 1: the four o one k loan nuances right now. In
Speaker 1: the still, you know you're missing out on growth in
Speaker 1: the market time in the market. Another benefit to keep
Speaker 1: in mind is vacation days. You're gonna want to make
Speaker 1: sure that you are able to take all of your
Speaker 1: vacation or your personal days that you have accrued at
Speaker 1: your employer over the years. You want to plan your
Speaker 1: exit so that you don't waste this valuable benefit. Some
Speaker 1: of those days could even be used during your new
Speaker 1: job hunt or if you realize that you're not going
Speaker 1: to be able to use them, try and see if
Speaker 1: your employer will pay you for those unused days. Keep
Speaker 1: in mind, though, all companies are different, so it is
Speaker 1: important to know the policy. So, for instance, there might
Speaker 1: be a cap on the number of days that they'll
Speaker 1: actually pay for, But you want to know what these
Speaker 1: policies are and then act accordingly. Yeah, and if you
Speaker 1: have a timeline, if you're not like, man, I gotta
Speaker 1: quit next week, if you're if you're saying I want
Speaker 1: to quit six months from now, and I want to
Speaker 1: be looking that that that time horizon gives you just
Speaker 1: a better understanding of how to utilize these benefits. You
Speaker 1: won't necessarily have to get forty seven bottles sorr profen
Speaker 1: or or take all your vacation in a two week
Speaker 1: span right before you leave. Like you can start to
Speaker 1: space those things out, spread it all out, that's right,
Speaker 1: Fridays off for the rest of the I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's kind of what I'm talking to my mom about
Speaker 1: right now, because she's on the verge of retiring and
Speaker 1: she's got all these vacation time built up and they'll
Speaker 1: pay her for some. But I'm also like, why don't
Speaker 1: you take some of those days now too, so because
Speaker 1: because she's got that timeline and she knows playing into
Speaker 1: the future when she wants to leave, that's going to
Speaker 1: help her do it. Well, is she still thinking, well,
Speaker 1: what if I get sick and she is she still
Speaker 1: kind of wanting to the stockpile some of those pay
Speaker 1: I think so a little bit. But there's also it's
Speaker 1: also nice to know and not every employer does this,
Speaker 1: like you said, Matt, that she will get paid for
Speaker 1: some of those days when she leaves if she hasn't
Speaker 1: used that. And so another benefit that people have to
Speaker 1: think about besides vacation days and their four oh one
Speaker 1: k is insurance, Like what are you gonna do for
Speaker 1: health insurance? And if you're quitting and you don't have
Speaker 1: another job lined up, this can become a problem. Is
Speaker 1: a huge deal. Yeah, you want to make sure you've
Speaker 1: got it figured out and then you're not flying by
Speaker 1: the seat of your pants. Try you know, the Monday
Speaker 1: after you're done with work trying to figure out how
Speaker 1: am I gonna do this health insurance thing? Gonna be
Speaker 1: popping that vitamin C staying healthy. But for all this
Speaker 1: is a big deal that bankruptcy because of medical costs
Speaker 1: are the number one reason for bankruptcy for individuals. That's right.
Speaker 1: And and maybe you can go on your partner's insurance plan.
Speaker 1: That'd be great. Maybe you can sign up for coverage
Speaker 1: with the health sharing company. You know, we've gotten article
Speaker 1: that we'll put in the show notes about that. Matt
Speaker 1: and I both have health sharing plans for our families.
Speaker 1: You could also look on the exchange, the Healthcare Exchange
Speaker 1: to see what you qualify for. And the good news
Speaker 1: is that you can sign up for a plan on
Speaker 1: healthcare dot gov if you lost health insurance from your employer,
Speaker 1: even if it's because you decided to quit. And so
Speaker 1: rates are actually reasonable for a lot of folks thanks
Speaker 1: to massiative federal subsidies. So this is one of the
Speaker 1: things you have a few places that you can look,
Speaker 1: where you can turn. But it's something you want to
Speaker 1: have researched, and you want to know what you're gonna
Speaker 1: do for health coverage before you leave. You don't don't
Speaker 1: want to be left without coverage because that can put
Speaker 1: you in a body exactly. Yeah, So it definitely don't
Speaker 1: leave without health coverage and go skuide Ivan before you
Speaker 1: figure that that's right. Well, as we're talking about insurance,
Speaker 1: something you know this doesn't feel quiet as pressing, but
Speaker 1: it's still important to have, and that is your own
Speaker 1: life insurance policy. The reason is because what you likely
Speaker 1: have for your work is that that is not enough,
Speaker 1: and so it's time to get your own term policy
Speaker 1: by shopping on the open market. Speaking of articles, we've
Speaker 1: got another article that will link to in the show
Speaker 1: notes that will explain to you everything you need to
Speaker 1: know about signing up for your own policy. And by
Speaker 1: the way, do not let the fear of what this
Speaker 1: is going to cost you keep you from seeing what
Speaker 1: life insurance is going to cost you, because it is
Speaker 1: way more affordable than you think, especially if you're young
Speaker 1: and you're healthy. This is something that that might cost
Speaker 1: you in the range of like thirty bucks a month, yeah,
Speaker 1: sometimes even less. Right, it could be closer to a
Speaker 1: Netflix subscription. And and that is an important thing to mention, Matt,
Speaker 1: because even folks who are listening who have a job
Speaker 1: and they're like, I've got life insurance through my employer,
Speaker 1: I don't need another policy, Well, actually that's not true.
Speaker 1: You in all likelihood do because most employers offer you
Speaker 1: something like one time's your salary uh in free life
Speaker 1: insurance and that's not going to be enough for you.
Speaker 1: And so you want to have your own policy in
Speaker 1: addition to that. Let that be the cherry on top,
Speaker 1: but you want to have your own policy that goes
Speaker 1: with you wherever your job takes you, wherever you're working.
Speaker 1: Um and you hear us read for different insurance as
Speaker 1: one in particular that starts with policy, but we would
Speaker 1: under present believe it. This is it really is important.
Speaker 1: And if somebody is out there, someone in your family,
Speaker 1: and they depend on your income, you need to have
Speaker 1: a life insurance and talk about other places where you
Speaker 1: get a life insurance policy to like if your costcome member,
Speaker 1: that's a good place to check. At the same time,
Speaker 1: so let's talk about transitioning to matt because it's important
Speaker 1: to not leave those benefits behind completely when you decide
Speaker 1: to quit, Like this is just another reason to not
Speaker 1: peace out on some sort of emotional win you want
Speaker 1: to have. You'll make that rational decision. That's right. You
Speaker 1: want to have the j plans in place, and and
Speaker 1: there's a lot of stuff you need to have figured
Speaker 1: out first before you walk out the door, and that
Speaker 1: just takes me back to having something else lined up
Speaker 1: before you put in your notice. I mean, that's that's
Speaker 1: the best course of action because maintaining your current job
Speaker 1: it puts you in a stronger position as you're applying
Speaker 1: for the roles. You know you don't have to jump
Speaker 1: at the first offer that comes your way, because let's say, well,
Speaker 1: I've been unemployed now for two and a half months.
Speaker 1: I quit thinking it's gonna be so easy to find
Speaker 1: the next thing. Sometimes even just onboarding to a new
Speaker 1: employer takes a while. I'm talking with a friend across
Speaker 1: the street and she is getting a new job, but
Speaker 1: lining up all the details is proving to take more
Speaker 1: time than she thought, and so herr she's still got
Speaker 1: her job. She hasn't put in her notice yet, she's
Speaker 1: still waiting until they have an official offer sign. Did
Speaker 1: they ask her to mail a check to this uh,
Speaker 1: to this address? Or actually did they send her a
Speaker 1: check for all of her new equipment and uh? And
Speaker 1: then they're like, oh, I'm sorry, we overpaid. Can you
Speaker 1: send us a cho like that? No scams here with
Speaker 1: this with this new role, you want to avoid that job, right,
Speaker 1: But the really the best thing to do is to
Speaker 1: keep your job until you have something else lined up,
Speaker 1: and and sometimes having that other job offer can actually
Speaker 1: result in something like a salary match from your carent employer,
Speaker 1: giving you a big pay boots without even having to
Speaker 1: leave if you don't want to. And of course another
Speaker 1: benefit to keeping your job while you're looking is that
Speaker 1: it helps you avoid a gap in your resume. It's
Speaker 1: not the worst thing in the world, I think, especially
Speaker 1: these days with COVID and stuff, employers don't seem to
Speaker 1: care as much that maybe you took a couple of
Speaker 1: months off is becoming a bit more acceptable. Yes, agreed,
Speaker 1: but still it's one of those things that you can avoid.
Speaker 1: And it's also just gonna mean consistency of income. Like
Speaker 1: you're not losing any paycheck weeks as long as you're
Speaker 1: waiting to quit your job until you've got a new
Speaker 1: one in hand, that's right, man. It is a little
Speaker 1: different though, if you're leaving your current job your current
Speaker 1: employer for a side hustle that might be becoming a
Speaker 1: little more self sustaining, you still want to leave on
Speaker 1: good terms, of course, for instance, that side hustle that
Speaker 1: might fizzle out and your old employer might be your
Speaker 1: best bet for steady employment. Like we like we talked
Speaker 1: about like that boomerang employment and you if you walked
Speaker 1: out with two birds up in the air, they're not
Speaker 1: gonna want you back. They're gonna be like, mmm, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: no place for you here. But it is important to
Speaker 1: note that entrepreneurship it's a great reason to leave a job.
Speaker 1: And this is exactly what more folks are doing these days.
Speaker 1: They haven't been quitting in order to just sit on
Speaker 1: the couch or to to live that hashtag van life.
Speaker 1: For the most part, they're leaving to go out on
Speaker 1: their own. And so if you're leaving to start your
Speaker 1: own thing, more power to you. Just make sure that
Speaker 1: you've got a proven business model, You've got money in
Speaker 1: the bank before you leave that steady paycheck behind. Yeah
Speaker 1: you you, I like what you said, a proven business model.
Speaker 1: You want to make sure that your side hustle, it's
Speaker 1: not just puyeing the guy Like I have projections in
Speaker 1: the next six months, I'm going to be able to live, uh,
Speaker 1: and to feed my family and to pay all my bills.
Speaker 1: Based on the trajectory of the profit increases I'm seeing
Speaker 1: you kind of want to get to that point before
Speaker 1: you pull the trigger. And I know it can be
Speaker 1: tough to to balance both things, your day job and
Speaker 1: your side hustle for an extended period of time, but
Speaker 1: I think it's worth it, and it's it's gonna allow
Speaker 1: you to to quit with more financial security, right without
Speaker 1: having to worry while you're making income from both ventures.
Speaker 1: You can stock more money away to give you extra
Speaker 1: breathing room when you do finally quit your job. I
Speaker 1: think it's I think it's great advice. I think also
Speaker 1: pursuing that side hustle and trying to strike it out
Speaker 1: on your own is something is something we want to
Speaker 1: encourage people to think about. We think there is a
Speaker 1: whole lot to be said for starting your own business
Speaker 1: and making that your main thing. Actually, we're gonna talking
Speaker 1: about the next week on the show, aren't we. That's right.
Speaker 1: So we have talked through some of the different tangible,
Speaker 1: hard specifics to consider some of the numbers and how
Speaker 1: you need to keep your salary in mind. But after
Speaker 1: the break, we're gonna talk about some of the more relational,
Speaker 1: some of the more social implications of quitting your job.
Speaker 1: The right way, and we'll get to that right after this.
Speaker 1: It's alright, Matt, we are back. We are still talking
Speaker 1: about quitting your job, doing it the right way. We're
Speaker 1: still talking. We're still enjoying our beer. We talking to
Speaker 1: drink beer a lot. And one of the things actually
Speaker 1: we'll get to in in this section of the show
Speaker 1: is how you can maybe get paid to quit. That's interesting.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that in just a minute. But yeah,
Speaker 1: we were just talking through salary and the specific benefits
Speaker 1: that you want to consider before you quit. You want
Speaker 1: to make sure you don't leave money on the table
Speaker 1: or leave those vacation days on the table. And then
Speaker 1: right before the break, we discussed how to bridge the
Speaker 1: gap from one job to another and how to transition
Speaker 1: well basically, so let's continue on that thread and talk
Speaker 1: about giving your notice because you don't want to just
Speaker 1: not show up for work one day. It's actually reminds
Speaker 1: me of a job I had. I think one of
Speaker 1: my favorite jobs of all time. Your favorite job was
Speaker 1: working out the photo lab. This is a but yeah,
Speaker 1: the Ecord Photo Lab was was my favorite favorite job ever.
Speaker 1: And I worked there with my buddy Caleb, and he
Speaker 1: actually quit in a really interesting way. He just left
Speaker 1: a note under the photo scanner for the manager, came
Speaker 1: in the next morning saying I'm never coming back, and
Speaker 1: and so, yeah, quitting in that way isn't going to
Speaker 1: endear you to anyone, and in fact, that's potentially the
Speaker 1: worst way you can quit. I guess when you're when
Speaker 1: you're eighteen years old, it's not as big of a deal.
Speaker 1: It doesn't impact your career long term, probably doesn't matter
Speaker 1: as much, although I would say I think like stealing
Speaker 1: from the company, embezzling funds, that might be the worst. True.
Speaker 1: By the way I stole all this money, good luck
Speaker 1: tracing it because I've got Swiss bank account. It doesn't
Speaker 1: have as much flair though, as as like the flight attendant,
Speaker 1: you know, with the with the two peers. That's still
Speaker 1: my favorite. But yeah, doing something like this, probably a
Speaker 1: stunt like this can potentially haunt you for years. In
Speaker 1: more of a career type environment, just not showing up,
Speaker 1: not giving a reasonable notice, you're just showing a lack
Speaker 1: of respect for your coworkers and for your bosses. Again,
Speaker 1: so much of this is about not being a jerk,
Speaker 1: and so when it comes to just giving a notice,
Speaker 1: you know, it depends on your industry, or your employer,
Speaker 1: or even the specific role that you play at the company.
Speaker 1: While keeping all of those things in mind, you want
Speaker 1: to give the appropri at length of time as a
Speaker 1: heads up. Of course, two weeks. That's the standard length
Speaker 1: of time that you'll read in any article. And I
Speaker 1: know that you can't always do this when quitting, but
Speaker 1: if you can actually offer more than two weeks, that
Speaker 1: can actually reflect really well on you. Obviously, if you've
Speaker 1: got a new position already lined up that you're transitioning to,
Speaker 1: that might become a basic impossibility because they're like, hey,
Speaker 1: you gotta start start on X day, and in that case,
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to get out of there, maybe sooner
Speaker 1: than later. But those are the kind of gestures that
Speaker 1: go a really long way in keeping that network intact.
Speaker 1: We you know, we touched on this. We kind of
Speaker 1: keep coming back to relationships because it's such an important
Speaker 1: part of your career of working. For instance, it makes
Speaker 1: me think about helping to finish an important report, or
Speaker 1: like spending a week or even two weeks training your replacement.
Speaker 1: These are the kind of things that will be remembered
Speaker 1: because you never know, like when that boss or when
Speaker 1: that coworker might reach back out with an even better
Speaker 1: offer in the future. But that only is going to
Speaker 1: happen if you do a good job departing. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: completely agree, and and stay in touch even with four
Speaker 1: or coworkers or former bosses, those can provide excellent opportunities
Speaker 1: for you in the future too. Instead of treating those
Speaker 1: people merely as colleagues, treating them as friends who you
Speaker 1: stay in touch with can be helpful from a career perspective.
Speaker 1: And man, it just makes me think, Actually, I've got
Speaker 1: had multiple opportunities recently from old coworkers just because I
Speaker 1: stayed in touch and just because we remain friendly. Even
Speaker 1: just an old coworker who said, hey, do you need
Speaker 1: some baby clothes for your two and a half year old?
Speaker 1: My boys four now, and like I'll drop them off
Speaker 1: on your porch. It's just even little stuff like that,
Speaker 1: Like that's a minor thing, that's small in the grand
Speaker 1: scheme of things. But maintaining those relationships, you never know
Speaker 1: where it's going to take you or what sort of
Speaker 1: opportunity might come your way because you're not only left
Speaker 1: on good terms, but you've remained friendly with those folks
Speaker 1: and you stay in touch. So it's one of those things. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like Jordan Harbinger says, like dig the well before you're thirsty,
Speaker 1: will maintain those friendships even without expecting anything in return,
Speaker 1: but just knowing that it's the right thing to do,
Speaker 1: and who knows what the result of that could be.
Speaker 1: That's true, dude. It also makes me think how it
Speaker 1: might be more difficult for introverts to maintain this when
Speaker 1: relationships might be more taxing on them and like in
Speaker 1: your energy. And so I guess what I'm saying is,
Speaker 1: if you're listening to this and you're thinking, yeah, easy
Speaker 1: for you to say Joel that, oh yeah, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: keep in touch with twenty five different people who I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna see anytimes, it is easier for me to
Speaker 1: say how it is. But but that being said, it's
Speaker 1: doesn't mean it's not any less important if you're listening
Speaker 1: and you're an introvert. And so I think there are
Speaker 1: ways that you can approach this, maybe more systematically, even
Speaker 1: if it's just a calendar reminder or something where that
Speaker 1: reminds you to go back and just shoot a quick message,
Speaker 1: whether it be a text or an email to touch
Speaker 1: base with folks. I think that can be a way
Speaker 1: that you can keep in touch with some of these
Speaker 1: folks without it filling up your calendar and feeling like,
Speaker 1: you know, you have no time to yourself if you're
Speaker 1: an introvert. And so, as we're talking about communication in
Speaker 1: particular with your employeer, hopefully your company has a policy
Speaker 1: in place where they solicit your feedback once you've decided
Speaker 1: to move on. And so it makes me think like
Speaker 1: there are there are two paths that you can take
Speaker 1: when it comes to leaving a previous employer. You can also,
Speaker 1: on one hand, you can slam the door. You can
Speaker 1: stom out of there and a huff calling out everything
Speaker 1: wrong with a company with the leadership, with your direct supervisors,
Speaker 1: drinking two beers. You can even talk smack about Toby
Speaker 1: in ah hr Uh's the worst. Or you could potentially
Speaker 1: take the like more of the apathetic route right where
Speaker 1: you fail to address any of the issues that the
Speaker 1: company might be facing. You're being nice, but you avoid
Speaker 1: any difficult conversations. We don't like either one of those routes.
Speaker 1: We think that honesty is it truly is the best policy.
Speaker 1: But there's also a way to be honest without pissing
Speaker 1: people off, right, Like without being a jerk. So much
Speaker 1: of this discussion today is about just not being a jerk.
Speaker 1: And so keep in mind that you're on his feedback
Speaker 1: that it could actually help your former employer as you
Speaker 1: head for the exit. But you know, remember that there's
Speaker 1: a kind way to give that honest feedback. Yes, and
Speaker 1: that is a skill that's important to learn, right, It's
Speaker 1: that emotional intelligence, I guess is what that's called. Just
Speaker 1: avoid any statement that says you always do that. That
Speaker 1: should should be a red flag that what you're saying
Speaker 1: may not be true, you know, and avoid that in
Speaker 1: your personal relationships to and you're with your partner. Sorts
Speaker 1: of advice, how the money today? Right? And yeah, continuing
Speaker 1: on the networking theme. Now, we've given a lot of
Speaker 1: advice in this episode, but I don't think there's any
Speaker 1: anything more important than maybe this one phrase, which is
Speaker 1: to not burn bridges. Yeah, that's basically what we're saying.
Speaker 1: But right now, I feel like it's so common to
Speaker 1: actually take the opposite attack. There are so many I
Speaker 1: quit on social media videos. It's a terrible trend that
Speaker 1: I talk seeing. We talked about quit talk. Yeah, people like,
Speaker 1: here's why I quit. It's the worst. And they're throwing
Speaker 1: people under the bus on their way out the door.
Speaker 1: And you know, we started off by talking about networking,
Speaker 1: how important it is and how it can't be overstated.
Speaker 1: And you know, they say, it's not what you know,
Speaker 1: it's who you know. But I don't even think it's that.
Speaker 1: I don't even think it's who you know. I think
Speaker 1: it's who you have a good relationship with. Right And
Speaker 1: according to HubSpot, eighty five percent of jobs are found
Speaker 1: through networking. And then CNBC actually reports that seventy percent
Speaker 1: of jobs never even get posted to some sort of
Speaker 1: job site, and and that means that they don't necessarily
Speaker 1: go This job isn't going to the best candidate out there.
Speaker 1: There aren't even multiple candidates in many of these scenarios.
Speaker 1: This job that was created for a specific person because
Speaker 1: of their abilities and because of their connections, and so
Speaker 1: that's just so important. These numbers reflect the truth that
Speaker 1: your career is as powerful as your network is and
Speaker 1: and how well maintained that network is. And you might
Speaker 1: find a job that's not even posted purely because of
Speaker 1: the people you know and who you have good friendships
Speaker 1: with and so when it comes to networking, like you've
Speaker 1: got to get to know I would say, a wide
Speaker 1: variety of other folks in your industry and build close
Speaker 1: relationships with the people that you work in close contact
Speaker 1: with if you want to shot at bigger opportunities in
Speaker 1: the future. It's like a personal marketing plan. Basically, it's
Speaker 1: like outreach to those around you. Not only are you
Speaker 1: focusing on like the work that you're doing, but you're talking,
Speaker 1: You're you're kind of looking at the marketing. You're looking
Speaker 1: at the pr is the is your personal advertising to
Speaker 1: a certain expense, right, And sometimes you think, well, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna let my work speak for itself, And well, I
Speaker 1: get that sentiment. If I just you know, put my
Speaker 1: nose to the grindstone, if I put out excellent, excellent work,
Speaker 1: people will notice it and I will go far. There's
Speaker 1: some truth to that, but you're missing a wider spectrum
Speaker 1: of what is also truth, and that is that the
Speaker 1: people that you know and the people you maintain good
Speaker 1: relationships with will want to work with you, will want
Speaker 1: to suggest you for future opportunities to other people that
Speaker 1: you don't even know, in large part because of the
Speaker 1: relationship they have with you, not just based on the
Speaker 1: work that you do. That's right, Let's let's talk about
Speaker 1: geting paid to quit. This is one other thing that's
Speaker 1: important to mention when it comes to quitting your job.
Speaker 1: And this might sound weird, but you know, can you
Speaker 1: engineer your own layoff? The great thing about getting laid
Speaker 1: off here is that there are often meaningful perks involved. Uh. Namely,
Speaker 1: what we're talking about here is severance pay Sam Dogan,
Speaker 1: who writes that Financial Samurai. He has written in depth
Speaker 1: about this topic. But there's often a way to create
Speaker 1: what's considered like a win win situation when you have
Speaker 1: to leave your employer. Sam says that people quit because
Speaker 1: they're too scared to negotiate. And I'm not totally sure
Speaker 1: if I agree with that, because it doesn't necessarily make
Speaker 1: sense in every situation. But if you can tell that
Speaker 1: your company is looking to downsize, or that by cutting
Speaker 1: payroll that that would make your boss look good, don't
Speaker 1: just quit. This is a way that you can negotiate
Speaker 1: an exit that helps you both out. And it makes
Speaker 1: me think of a friend of our, jeninal Uh. And
Speaker 1: she was working for Delta for years and years and back,
Speaker 1: you know, things weren't looking so great for the airline
Speaker 1: that I don't remember. And by the end of Delta
Speaker 1: was able to get over eighteen thousand employees to voluntarily
Speaker 1: retire early, essentially with early retirement packages with buy backs. Uh.
Speaker 1: And so I think from an employee standpoint, you think, oh,
Speaker 1: holy cow, I feel like I'm totally taking advantage of them.
Speaker 1: This almost seems too good to be true. I think
Speaker 1: in her pace, in her case, she was getting paid
Speaker 1: close to a year in order to to leave the company.
Speaker 1: But when you look at it from the point of
Speaker 1: view of the employer, this was a smart move for them.
Speaker 1: This was a way for them to stay solid, for
Speaker 1: them to not file bankruptcy. And so in that case,
Speaker 1: this truly was a win win scenario. So keep that
Speaker 1: in mind if you are in a situation like this
Speaker 1: where your company might be experiencing some issues like if
Speaker 1: you offer to pay me for a year to leave,
Speaker 1: I will be devastated because how the money is my life? Matthew,
Speaker 1: don't do it, okay, but I just that's that's obviously
Speaker 1: not gonna happen. But I did actually negotiate a severance package.
Speaker 1: Matt on my way out of the radio station a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago, and it was one of those
Speaker 1: things where, similarly to what you were saying, it was
Speaker 1: an industry in decline and they were letting people go,
Speaker 1: and so I volunteered myself. I volunteers tribute I do
Speaker 1: if if it saves somebody else, and you're gonna pay
Speaker 1: me to leave, like, I'm more than happy to do it.
Speaker 1: And so that's how it went down. It was one
Speaker 1: of those things where it was the term you use
Speaker 1: was engineering your own layoff, and that's exactly exactly what
Speaker 1: I did. And and of course it was beneficial to
Speaker 1: me as I was making the transition here, but I
Speaker 1: think it was beneficial to other people at the radio
Speaker 1: station to It really was one of those win win scenarios.
Speaker 1: Maybe think about this as you're talking about how how
Speaker 1: the money is your life. Work is great, but it
Speaker 1: is not the end all the all whoa who had
Speaker 1: the money is the end? I'll be all. I feel
Speaker 1: like we take a very healthy, uh nuanced approach when
Speaker 1: it comes to how it is that we view work.
Speaker 1: But over work like that is a real thing and
Speaker 1: it's not good. It's happening more often we talked about
Speaker 1: Scott Kay's a couple weeks ago about the lack of
Speaker 1: vacations that folks are taking that is not good. It
Speaker 1: makes me think of a piece that Derrick Thompson wrote
Speaker 1: over in The Atlantic a few years ago. He talks
Speaker 1: about how work is morphing into something that looks more
Speaker 1: like religious identity for for most folks, as opposed to
Speaker 1: just a job. And the problem is that work, it
Speaker 1: can't satisfy all of our human longings, but it does
Speaker 1: feel like that we're expecting it to these days, right, Uh.
Speaker 1: And So, like, I think one of the answers is
Speaker 1: perhaps to be a little more introspective, like takes some
Speaker 1: time and to think about why what it is, what
Speaker 1: it is that you get from your work, why it
Speaker 1: is that you're doing the things that you do. And
Speaker 1: I do think that a lot of folks did that
Speaker 1: over the past couple of years. I think that's what's
Speaker 1: led to the great resignation to the priorities exactly. There's
Speaker 1: been this sea change that we've seen within many people's careers. Uh.
Speaker 1: And oftentimes that does lead to a new job. But
Speaker 1: what we don't want to see you do is to
Speaker 1: is to see a new job as just as a distraction.
Speaker 1: We don't want it to be this knee jerk reaction
Speaker 1: because in that case, you're not actually getting down to
Speaker 1: the root of the problem. You're just reflexively reacting to things,
Speaker 1: as opposed to being more introspective, really thinking about what
Speaker 1: it is that you're trying to to seek after. Because
Speaker 1: if you just hot from one job to the next,
Speaker 1: like essentially you're just going to hop from your old
Speaker 1: crappy job to a new crappy job, exactly if you
Speaker 1: will eventually become your old crappy job yet again, yes,
Speaker 1: if you're not giving it enough thought, and then at
Speaker 1: some point too, by the third or fourth time you
Speaker 1: do that, it makes you less desirable on the job market.
Speaker 1: If you're quitting jobs every five, six, eight, nine months,
Speaker 1: and you're doing it consistently in order to score more
Speaker 1: pay or something like that, and then you want to
Speaker 1: eventually get the job of your dreams, well, they might
Speaker 1: not be interested in hiring you if you've moved on
Speaker 1: too frequently, if you haven't shown any commitment to the
Speaker 1: employers where where you work, And so I think that's
Speaker 1: an important thing to note too. So really, when it
Speaker 1: comes down to it, quit well, don't leave money or
Speaker 1: benefits on the table. Those are important things to do
Speaker 1: if you're planning on quitting, plan ahead, and it don't
Speaker 1: be a jerk in the whole process. Matt That's what
Speaker 1: you've said many times, and I think you're You're spot on.
Speaker 1: There is a way to quit poorly and publicize it
Speaker 1: all over the internet. There's a way to quit well
Speaker 1: and to do it with honor in a way that
Speaker 1: actually ends up boosting your career in the future. Do
Speaker 1: it with honor. That sounds like something of Samurai would say. Right, honor, integrity,
Speaker 1: doing it the right way, treating people right on your
Speaker 1: way out, and and not throwing people on under the
Speaker 1: bus when you do. Just don't commit, Harry Carey and
Speaker 1: follow your own sword. Right. All right, Let's shift gears
Speaker 1: and get back to the beer that you and I
Speaker 1: enjoyed during this episode. This was Bumble Stick by Bermari Brewing.
Speaker 1: This is a brewery up in Asheville, North Carolina. We've
Speaker 1: had a few of their beers before. But what were
Speaker 1: your thoughts on this nut brown ale with toasted cinnamon, Matthew, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I would say it was heavy on the cinnamon.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe even a bit too heavy, but I think
Speaker 1: it was. It had a lot almost maybe sneeze maybe
Speaker 1: one you're gonna but I did sneeze. I did that
Speaker 1: triple sneeze in the middle of the other. We we
Speaker 1: cut that out. You wouldn't You wouldn't hear that, right,
Speaker 1: See if you can listen back and figure out what
Speaker 1: it is that I came back in with the fresh sneeze. Boys, nobody,
Speaker 1: nobody wants to hear that sneezy there years nobody wants that.
Speaker 1: But I I really like Brimri beers. I think they
Speaker 1: make some good stuff. This one was not my favorite
Speaker 1: because I thought it was a little too cinnamon heavy,
Speaker 1: and I really like cinnamon actually, but I like a
Speaker 1: good nut brown nail. It's one of those things. It's
Speaker 1: it's kind of a beer style that not many folks
Speaker 1: are producing, and I thought this was a decent take
Speaker 1: on a beer variety that not enough people pay attention to. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the only other drink of that UH infrequently enjoy is
Speaker 1: horg Chatta, and it kind of reminds me of horchatas,
Speaker 1: you know, like where you're tasting that cinnamon with within
Speaker 1: a drink. Or maybe honestly, it kind of takes me
Speaker 1: back to so similar to horchata. I guess makes me
Speaker 1: think of slurping down the milk after you finish eating
Speaker 1: the cinnamon toast crunch. Yeah you know what I saw
Speaker 1: the other day on the aisle in the grocer. I
Speaker 1: do not they have cinnamon toastcrunts in this by style
Speaker 1: like you get the flavor, yes, next to the pepper
Speaker 1: and stuff. Man, it's crazy. So basically cinnamon and sugar. Yes,
Speaker 1: so silly people just need to buy cinnamon and sugar.
Speaker 1: But whatever your own self. Nostalgia is a powerful drug,
Speaker 1: that's for sure. But I wanted to recommend just brown
Speaker 1: ales in general. If you're out there and you're thinking, man,
Speaker 1: what are these guys talking about with all their different
Speaker 1: craft beers. I think brown ales are a great introduction
Speaker 1: into the craft beer world because they're very easy to drink,
Speaker 1: and specifically, if you find yourself enjoying coffee, maybe you
Speaker 1: like one sugar and a little bit of cream, really
Speaker 1: easy to drink. That's how I think about brown ailes.
Speaker 1: They're not overly dark and espresso like in the way
Speaker 1: that you would find like a Russian Imperial stout, but
Speaker 1: they're also not overly kind of bitter and tanniny when
Speaker 1: it comes to like some of the different West Coast
Speaker 1: I p A s and all the different flavors that
Speaker 1: they introduced. It's just a very approachable beer. Can I
Speaker 1: say the most classic nut brown ale that out there
Speaker 1: is probably the Rogue sael nut brown, and that's probably
Speaker 1: available in almost every stag. I was going to say
Speaker 1: the most classic brown and will generally speaking is new
Speaker 1: just Newcastle, Newcastle. That's I don't know if i'd consider
Speaker 1: that a craft beer. No, it's it's pretty large. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's decent. But if you want something like good,
Speaker 1: a little more refined, but still like really really accessible,
Speaker 1: that that Rogue hazel nut brown is a great true
Speaker 1: and why we haven't really had any rogues should we?
Speaker 1: I don't know, we need we need to remedy that
Speaker 1: here in a few weeks. Let's throw it out a
Speaker 1: bunch of rogues. But this beer you can find a
Speaker 1: picture of it on our website at how the money
Speaker 1: dot com within our show notes for this episode, and
Speaker 1: we will make sure to link to any of the
Speaker 1: different resources that we mentioned as well. Yeah, by the way,
Speaker 1: if you've been listening for a little while and you
Speaker 1: have not yet left or review for this show. We
Speaker 1: would appreciate it if you would do that really quickly.
Speaker 1: If you listen on Apple Podcasts, you can leave a
Speaker 1: quick rating and review that helps other people find out
Speaker 1: more about the show. Same on Spotify that's where you listen.
Speaker 1: That's just a rating and that takes lesson too easy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can definitely do that first. Thank you in advance
Speaker 1: for your help with that, and Joe will write you
Speaker 1: a handwritten out For everyone who does I personalized. I
Speaker 1: will send you the cinnamon toast crunch spice in the
Speaker 1: mail for your contributions, the whole thing. But you can
Speaker 1: sprinkle some on the letter. The letter I can't sprayed
Speaker 1: with perfume. I open it and starts sneezing immediately. Who
Speaker 1: wrote this? A seven year old? All right, that's gonna
Speaker 1: do it for this episode. Until next time. Best Friends Out,
Speaker 1: Best Friends Out.