WEBVTT - Carbon Bros, Ep 1: The Testosterone Pipeline 0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:03.640 It might be hard to remember at this point, but 0:00:03.840 --> 0:00:07.480 think back to just after the election. This is what 0:00:07.520 --> 0:00:08.880 a lot of the news sounded like. 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:12.240 Did an election that was supposed to revolve around women's 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:14.520 issues actually come down to the flight of. 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:15.600 Men young men. 0:00:16.079 --> 0:00:19.200 The headline was that men, and especially young men, swung 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:23.080 big for Trump. His campaign even consulted Baron Trump for 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:26.759 tips on which podcast he should go on, which young 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:29.800 male influencers he should court, and with the help of 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:34.680 money from big oil, Peter Teal and Elon Musk. It worked. 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:37.559 Not because Trump went on those podcasts per se, but 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:40.800 because he tapped into the ethos of those guys and 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:43.440 made himself the candidate for aggrieved young. 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:46.880 Men of the people. I want to bend to know 0:00:47.040 --> 0:00:52.000 boys An ross Uh, theil baughn also with the boys 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:56.600 and left, but not least the mighty and powerful Joe Rogan. 0:00:57.320 --> 0:01:00.000 And practically the same breast. Trump promised to roll back 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:04.080 the rights of women and trans people, conduct mass deportation 0:01:04.360 --> 0:01:07.840 of immigrants, get the EPA, and get rid of anything 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:11.479 that looks like climate policy. At this point, you might 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:15.000 be wondering why we're talking about the manosphere. On Drilled, 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:18.440 a climate podcast. The answer is simple, the long standing 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:23.560 and ever increasing overlap between male grievance culture and climate 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:26.920 denial and delay. In this four part mini series, we're 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:30.280 going to explore how gender and environmental issues have intersected 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:33.800 throughout history, what the fossil fuel industry has done over 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:37.600 the past century to feminize caring about climate change, and 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:40.120 what on Earth we might be able to do about it. 0:01:41.360 --> 0:02:02.080 We're calling it Carbon Bros. I'm Amy Westervelt, and to 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:04.680 guide us through much of that story, I'm very happy 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:07.400 to introduce my co host for this season, the great 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:11.400 Daniel Penny. Daniel's been writing and thinking about these issues 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:14.160 for a lot longer than I have in GQ, The 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:16.639 New York Times, The New Yorker, and on his own 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:18.880 podcast on this subject, Non Toxic. 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:22.320 Thanks. Amy, So excited to be doing this show together. 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:26.399 There are a lot of ways malesculinity and climate are 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:28.960 tied up in our culture and politics, and we'll be 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:31.240 diving into a few of them. But I think you're 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:34.040 right that the most obvious place to start is the 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:40.440 so called manosphere. This is the write coded online world 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:45.760 of dudes like Joe Rogan, Andrew Tate, Jordan Peterson, Charlie Kirk. 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:49.679 Stephen Krauda, Matt Walsh, Tucker Carlson, Van Manteno, Theo Wong, 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:51.119 Jake and Logan, Paul. 0:02:51.080 --> 0:02:54.280 Lever, King, Andrew Huberman. 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:58.400 Ben Elk, Boys, Flagrant, and many others. 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:02.079 Okay, so I've heard of some of these guys, but 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:04.280 that is a long ass list, and honestly, some of 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:06.919 these names sound like they've been made up. I don't 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:08.960 buy it. 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:11.320 It's impossible to keep up with all of them, and 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:14.799 because we live in such a fractured media ecosystem, you're 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:16.880 not going to hear about many of these guys unless 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:19.919 you're actively seeking them out, or you've got a man 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:22.919 in your life who's a big fan, which I feel 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:25.760 bad for you if you do. Some of these guys 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:30.760 are explicitly anti feminist, but most are just entertainers who 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:37.720 like to talk about typical men's hobbies sports, martial arts, cars, 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:42.400 science and tech, sex and dating with a bit of 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:44.480 right wing climate denile mixed in. 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:51.840 If you're a male in a society with that ethos, 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:59.520 you're associated with rapaciousness and despoilation on the natural front, 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:05.200 and then oppression and atrocity on the social front. It's like, well, 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:09.160 then if you're the least bit conscientious, because this sort 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:12.320 of accusation hurts conscientious. 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:12.840 Young man the most. 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:16.040 Then the best you can do is, well. 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:19.479 Let's say castrate yourself. How would that be? 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:22.400 This climate change narrative, this is a really coofy thing 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:23.920 that people on the left are talk about. This is 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:27.040 because of climate change. This is climate change causes fire. 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:29.640 It's just la. It's not climate change. 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:35.000 Climate change is real, but it's not the most serious 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:37.240 environmental problem in the world. It's not the end of 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:40.040 the world, and we need to be telling kids the truth. 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:47.680 If you don't recognize those voices, that was Canadian psychologist 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:53.039 turned podcaster Jordan Peterson, failed comedian turned MMA announcer turned 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:56.760 podcaster Joe Rogan, and a relatively new intrant to the 0:04:56.760 --> 0:05:01.400 manosphere Breakthrough Institute co founder turned to Twitter files thread guy, 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:06.560 self proclaimed journalist and newsletter star somehow not yet a podcaster, 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:08.040 Michael Schellenberger. 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:12.000 We included him here because he's a super obvious example 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:15.240 of why we're even talking about the manosphere undrilled in 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:19.120 the first place. Shellenberger is like horseshoe theory come to life, 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:22.839 and his journey from environmental pr guy to climate skeptic 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:26.279 to dipping a toe in the misogyny and anti trans universe. 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:29.960 Illustrates just how porous the lines between these two worlds is. 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:33.080 And there are plenty of other dudes like them popping 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:37.400 up all the time. The podcaster Dan Bongino is actually 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:41.000 deputy director of the FBI, so I guess there's always 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:44.719 hope that podcasting will land me a powerful government job. 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:49.120 I still cannot get over that that, like someone from 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:52.920 this list is working a pretty high level government job. 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:56.880 For these guys, masculinity and climate are linked in a 0:05:57.000 --> 0:06:00.839 larger reactionary project. They want to return world to some 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:05.120 imaginary golden age when energy was cheap and men were 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:08.960 in charge. And their message is resonating, not just with 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:11.599 the out of work blue collar guys pundits were so 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:15.680 obsessed with. After Trump's victory in twenty sixteen. Those guys 0:06:15.680 --> 0:06:19.960 in the diner remember them, but with younger educated men, 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:24.080 black men, Latino men, and plenty of others. According to 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:27.400 Exit Holding in twenty twenty four, Trump won one fifth 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:31.400 of black men and nearly half of Latino men. They 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:35.080 might be strange to quote Andrew Breitbart, but I agree 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:38.880 with him when he said politics is downstream from culture. 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:44.320 For the past decade, these dubiously credentialed but very influential 0:06:44.360 --> 0:06:48.560 men have shaped the conversation not just around masculinity, but 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:51.719 around climate too. Sometimes in the same breath. 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:55.760 Yeah, that is the piece that feels pretty new to me, 0:06:56.440 --> 0:07:00.720 and also like something that has been pretty strategic and 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:04.200 intentional and in a pretty smart way. This masculine sort 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:07.320 of reactionary politics has been around for a long time, 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:10.520 but it's been adapted really easily to tap into some 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:15.720 real issues facing young men today inflation, wage stagnation, and 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:19.600 pin those issues on feminists and climate activists. 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:24.000 Peterson and Rogan don't always talk about climate, but they're 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:27.760 doing so more and more these days. Just like fitness 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:32.240 instructors and guys who give business advice on TikTok have 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:37.200 been solely blending political talking points into their podcasts, Peterson 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:41.320 and Rogan have been incorporating fossil fuel talking points into 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:42.120 their shows. 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:47.760 Meanwhile, Schellenberger has long been a so called reformed environmentalist 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:50.840 raising an eyebrow at climate action, but he's only recently 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:58.240 come around to what I've been calling the gentleman grift. So, 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:01.680 you know, the relationship between climate deniers and gender warriors 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:05.800 goes both ways. Here's a clip of Schellenberger talking at 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:09.680 a recent conference for a new fun little group created 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:14.600 by Peterson called the Alliance for a Responsible Citizenship. It 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:18.000 brings a lot of the Manosphere folks together with climate 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:23.040 skeptics like Puren Lomberg and Vivic Ramaswami, hardcore Brexit folks 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:26.760 like Nigel Farage, far right politicians from the US, UK, 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:31.720 Australia and Canada, gender critical anti transactivists, and of course 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:34.040 a sprinkling of dreadwibs. 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:42.079 The moralizing men, the woe men are actually weak men. 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:46.280 Manly men are an improvement. Without any morality or sense 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:50.720 of concern or empathy, they become an Andrew Tait. We 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:55.600 can strive for something better, to be gentlemen. Gentlemen are 0:08:55.679 --> 0:08:58.840 men that have the power of violence and aggression, but 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:01.320 they would never use it to take advantage of the 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:03.680 week and the vulnerable. Instead, they would use it to 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:07.040 build a civilized society. 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:12.360 Andrew Tait is a useful foil for the gentleman battalion 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:15.400 of the Manisphere Army. They can always point to Tate, 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:20.280 an alleged sex trafficker and Ponzi schemer and say we're 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:24.160 not misogynists, We're not like that guy, while still spreading 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:28.640 their regressive ideas about gender and their reactionary social views 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:33.920 and complacency about climate change. Even Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:37.320 enemy of all things woke, had this to say when 0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:39.880 the Tate Brothers landed in his state to fight a 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:40.640 recent case. 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:47.240 No, Florida is not a place where you're welcome with 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:49.199 those that type of conduct. 0:09:49.200 --> 0:09:54.400 And I don't know how it came to this. These 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:57.520 guys go on each other's shows to grow their audiences 0:09:57.760 --> 0:10:01.440 and reinforce one another's message, or to just get paid 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:05.080 because there's a lot of fossil fuel money slashing around 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:08.960 the manisphere too. Just sticking with podcasts. Nine out of 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:12.840 the ten with the largest followings across platforms or right leaning, 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:16.160 with a total following of more than one hundred and 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:20.280 ninety seven million, all but one of them hosted by men. 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:24.120 The leading conservative cable news channel Box gets around three 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:28.680 million viewers during prime time. To understand exactly how the 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:31.400 pieces of this puzzle fit together, I sat down with 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:35.280 Kayla Gogherty, author of a new report from Media matters. 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:40.640 What our findings underscore is that the rights as a 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:45.280 disproportionate reached to a wide variety of audiences. We looked 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:50.079 at about three hundred and twenty top online shows that 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:53.720 either have a right leaning or left leaning ideological bent, 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:57.160 and what we found was that a lot of these 0:10:57.200 --> 0:11:01.040 shows are not outright saying that they're ideological, and yet 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:03.760 when you dig into the content of the shows, you 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:06.360 start to see how some of these right wing talking 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:13.479 points are seeping into their conversations. And so these audiences 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:16.720 are not going to these shows for politics and news, 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:19.680 and yet they are starting to hear it during these 0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:23.920 conversations amid celebrity interviews and other comedians that you know 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:25.920 you might like and want to listen to, and now 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:28.760 you're hearing some of these right wing talking points. During 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:32.120 the election, specifically, you know, we saw Trump appear on 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:37.200 several of these large podcasts, Joe Rogan for instance, Full Send. 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:39.440 And that's why some people have kind of dubbed it 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:40.920 the podcast election. 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:44.840 Boys. I know a lot of you guys are thinking, 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:47.280 like me, You're seeing what's happening in this country. 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:48.840 Everything's just getting. 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:49.600 Really really weird. 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:52.880 You got men plan and women's sports, the borders wide open. 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:55.440 This election might be the most important election in. 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:57.040 US is three and of the restoration. 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:01.079 They're not going there for news and politics. They're going 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:04.680 there to hear from their favorite comedians. They're going there 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:08.000 to hang out with the bros basically, and so they 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:10.120 go on different shows and they kind of have this 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:13.520 camaraderie and that makes these your listeners kind of feel 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:14.640 like in the club, you know. 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:19.480 But how did these dudes who just love martial arts 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:24.079 and comedy before become mouthpieces for misogyny and climate denial. 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:28.240 So there are really a few different species of these dudes. 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:32.480 Some of these guys started as legacy media conservative darlings, 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:36.400 like former Fox host Tucker Carlson, who has endorsed the 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:39.520 idea that wind turbines kill whales and that sunning your 0:12:39.559 --> 0:12:42.800 scrotum increases sperm quality. And then you've got guys like 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:46.880 Charlie Kirk of Turning Point USA, or Dennis Prager of 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:51.520 the conservative edutainment company Prager You and Ben Shapiro, who 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:55.400 started The Daily Wire, which hosts Jordan Peterson's show. By 0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:59.520 the way, these guys represent the next generation of right 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:04.200 wing voice with deep connections to fossil fuel donors like 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:13.760 the Texas fracking billionaires Farris and Dan Wilkes. Amy. I 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:16.320 know you're very familiar with the Wilkes brothers. 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:20.520 Yes, there's been a few really great pieces of reporting 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:23.480 on these guys over the years. The one I always 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:26.520 think of is this article that Jeff Dembickie wrote for 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:29.600 Vice News a while ago where he talked about how 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:33.360 the Wilkes brothers have really tied this into kind of 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:37.199 evangelical Christianity as well. So, for example, at his church, 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:41.719 Dan Wilkes requires women to quote keep silence and has 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:45.840 told his congregates that climate change is God's will. Here's 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:48.520 a quote from a twenty thirteen sermon he delivered, just 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:51.120 to give you a flavor. He said, if he wants 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:54.040 the polar caps to remain in place, then he will 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:54.880 leave them there. 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:58.920 And conservatives have been doing this for a long time, 0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:02.680 building networks of talent to get out their message. Here's Kayla. 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:07.840 Conservatives and conservative donors. They put money into building these networks, 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:10.560 and they have been doing that for years. We saw 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:14.640 them dominate you know, right wing talk radio for instance, 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:17.200 back in the nineties and early two thousands. You know 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:21.320 the rush Limbas and the Glenn Becks, they really dominated 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:24.080 that space. Then you saw them move into cable and 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:26.280 that you know, now you see Fox started to really 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:29.880 dominate that space. We saw that with social media as well, 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:33.120 and now we're really seeing that with the online media ecosystem. 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:36.240 So these they kind of are thinking about the big 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:39.000 picture and trying to build out this infrastructure and have 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:40.160 been doing that for years. 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:43.200 Okay, so there's an obvious reason why donors like the 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:46.800 Wilks Brothers would be investing money to boost the careers 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:50.160 of climate denying anti feminist podcasters. 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:53.480 But then there are the dudes like Joe Rogan or 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:57.640 the guys from Flagrant who didn't always have an opinion 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:01.720 on climate change, or their opinion seems to shift all 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:05.440 the time. Sometimes in the case of Brogan, he was 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:08.480 having guests like David Wallace Wells, the climate columnist for 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:10.840 The New York Times and author of the book The 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:15.080 Uninhabitable Earth, which is all about what unchecked climate change 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:18.080 will look like in a few years. So Rogan has 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:25.480 really shifted in recent years, as has his audience, and 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:30.560 part of his shift maybe algorithmic. We've all heard about 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:33.720 the way YouTube and TikTok can radicalize their viewers by 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:38.000 showing them increasingly extreme content just to keep them watching. 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:41.880 So Kayla's team at Media Matters actually did an experiment 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:45.520 about how this works, using clips from the top five 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:49.520 podcasts on TikTok, which include a lot of our guys. 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:53.560 And the algorithm is really good at kind of leading 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:57.400 you down these rabbit holes. We actually just published a 0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:01.800 study within the last few days TikTok new TikTok account 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:07.400 and we followed five of the leading podcasters. So we 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:12.640 followed a page that had full sense content for instance, 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:14.760 that had Joe Rogan's content for instance. 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:16.360 Well, the third type. 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:18.080 That got mentioned on mission was reptilios. 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:20.120 They don't want to talk about the reptilion presence at all. 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:23.160 Was there any sort of an explanation did anybody give 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:24.920 you of why they don't want to talk about it? 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:30.600 But we wanted to see what following some of these 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:34.280 kind of podcasters and seeing this content once you're starting 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:35.280 to see that content, we. 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:37.600 Wanted to see where TikTok's for you page would lead you. 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:41.320 We found that the algorithm started leading us down to 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:45.960 conspiracy theories and toxic masculinity videos and by Toxic Toxic 0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:47.240 Masculinity videos. 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:49.760 They were often framed as motivational. 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:53.720 What's your dream my father asked, grinding until my bank 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:55.360 account looks like a phone. 0:16:56.160 --> 0:16:59.240 They had clips of like expensive watches and boats and 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:01.440 cars and and you know, very. 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:02.720 Kind of Andrew Tate esque. 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:05.359 I would say, where he's talking about, like, you know, 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:06.000 getting rich? 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:09.040 Really I decided to get rich rich. 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:12.639 Step one is I've tried decided to be very logical 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:12.960 about it. 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:16.080 Just player right, So it's like, I want money? What 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:17.440 is money? 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:21.320 Using even some of his voiceovers, So some of the 0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:24.679 sounds would use his voice and would talk about, you know, 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:26.640 coaching men about their girlfriends. 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:28.439 In one instance, we. 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:32.320 Saw a video say, uh, tell her that you're going 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:34.159 to quit your job because you want to chase your 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:35.680 dreams and run your own business. 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:38.080 Those sorts of things. 0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:42.040 Wow, that is wild. And how many people are starting 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:46.160 with these podcasts and then winding up watching these clips. 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:49.639 So it's hard to say exactly because these clips are 0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:52.200 broken up in so many different ways and distributed around 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:55.879 the internet. But Kayla, you know, could say more people 0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:59.320 are tuning into podcasts and online shows, for instance, than 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:03.159 they are into cable news. We did it, Daniel, We 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:05.879 did it. Unfortunately, I'm not so sure that non toxic 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:09.719 or drilled are included in those top podcasts, but you know, 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:14.320 we're trying. And Kayla also had some interesting data to 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:18.560 back her up, which was that according to Nielsen streaming viewership, 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:22.679 it's forty three percent of Americans versus twenty four percent 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:26.639 who watch cable or broadcast news, and Pew had a 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:31.200 study that majority of Americans fifty four percent, get most 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:32.400 of their news online. 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:33.160 Wow. 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:36.520 Another Pew study from the previous year in twenty twenty 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:39.120 three found that eighty seven percent of people who hear 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:41.720 the news on podcasts said they expect it to be 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:46.160 mostly accurate, and thirty one percent said that they even 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:50.119 trust the news they hear from podcasts more than traditional news. 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:57.520 That is terrible because, unlike US, most podcasts do not 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:00.880 fact check like at all. I mean, Jogan is sort 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:05.480 of famously anti fact checking. Okay, so we know that 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:08.880 people in general are getting their news from podcasts and 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:11.800 trusting it more than they should, and we know that 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:15.360 more men are getting surprised political talking points when they 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:19.879 tune into Manosphere podcasts, But is that actually translating to 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:24.080 the voting booth, especially on climate Do we know how 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:27.240 differently men and women actually view the climate crisis and 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:29.320 how that is turning up in their votes. 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:33.600 So about seven to ten Americans believe in climate change 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:37.200 and think humans are contributing to the warming of the atmosphere. 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:41.000 But there's a gap between men and women, and it's 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:44.520 pretty large, especially when you drill down by age or party. 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:47.760 If you're listening to this podcast and you're a man, 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:51.960 you probably care about climate change. And if you're not 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:55.040 a man, you probably know men who care about climate change. 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:58.800 But I'm sorry to say that drilled and non toxic 0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:02.360 listeners aren't not representative of the average American. 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:06.200 Now, Well, we do see differences between men and women 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:07.920 when it comes to climate change. 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:12.040 This is Alec Tyson, Associate director of Research at pe 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:12.960 Research Center. 0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:15.879 Women tend to be more concerned about the issue and 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:18.520 more willing to either take action or see themselves as 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:20.960 playing a role in addressing the issue. 0:20:21.080 --> 0:20:24.919 Wow, that is really fascinating and I'm honestly kind of 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:27.520 surprised that this is still the case. I know that 0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:30.199 from stuff that I've worked on before. The pollsters working 0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:32.640 for the fossil fuel industry figured this out a long 0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:36.200 time ago, like in the nineties, and really leaned into it. 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:39.560 I did not realize it was still working quite so well. 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:44.320 Right, It is interesting how much that gender gap is 0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:49.160 still very present today, and it may actually be getting wider. 0:20:49.800 --> 0:20:53.240 Alex studies public views on science and technology, and he's 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:56.520 been looking at the particular differences between men and women 0:20:56.840 --> 0:20:59.520 when it comes to whether climate change is happening and 0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:01.400 how ct is that we deal with it. 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:04.280 Seventy two percent of women view it as a very 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:08.120 or moderately big problem. That shares fifty six percent among men, 0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:10.400 So a sizeable shares of both groups, but a sixteen 0:21:10.440 --> 0:21:13.480 point gap here where women are expressing more concern about 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:15.439 the importance or urgency of the issue. 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:19.960 Here, and for the men who don't believe in climate 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:23.280 change or who don't think it's salient, how does that 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:26.240 lack of interest in climate or lack of belief in 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:32.200 the climate crisis track with other political beliefs or political identities. 0:21:32.920 --> 0:21:37.320 So just among men men who lean or identify with 0:21:37.359 --> 0:21:41.480 the Republican Party, just twenty nine percent view climate change 0:21:41.720 --> 0:21:45.040 as a salient problem. Let's talk about men who leaner 0:21:45.080 --> 0:21:49.480 identify with the Democratic Party. Ninety percent view climate change 0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:52.919 as a highly salient problem. That's a sixty one point 0:21:52.920 --> 0:21:55.280 gap within men. We're talking about men. We're staying within 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:59.159 gender here, but this partisan difference between Republican men and 0:21:59.200 --> 0:22:00.600 Democratic men is enormous. 0:22:01.320 --> 0:22:05.560 Okay, so there's a sixteen point gap, sixteen point gap 0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:07.879 that really that does kind of blow my mind between 0:22:07.920 --> 0:22:11.160 American men and women. But then there's also this huge 0:22:11.160 --> 0:22:14.880 divide among men on the importance or even the reality 0:22:15.240 --> 0:22:19.400 of climate change depending on their political party affiliation. What's 0:22:19.440 --> 0:22:19.919 that about. 0:22:20.440 --> 0:22:24.320 So it turns out that climate denial doesn't just correlate 0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:28.560 with being a man, but with a particular type of men. 0:22:29.280 --> 0:22:33.320 Men who care about the idea of traditional masculinity are 0:22:33.600 --> 0:22:36.960 way more likely to be climate deniers. Here's alec on that. 0:22:37.600 --> 0:22:40.040 We have great colleagues who did a survey on men 0:22:40.080 --> 0:22:43.200 in masculinity, and they share who describe themselves as highly 0:22:43.240 --> 0:22:46.920 masculine or very masculine, they tend to be older men 0:22:47.160 --> 0:22:49.879 and more politically conservative men. So I looked at that 0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:54.879 same group and we looked at some climate attitudes and descriptively, absolutely, 0:22:54.880 --> 0:22:58.080 there's a difference that older, more politically conservative men are 0:22:58.119 --> 0:23:01.280 both more likely to be themselves asi masculine and more 0:23:01.320 --> 0:23:05.439 likely to be skeptical about human contributions to climate change, 0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:07.639 and also less concerned about the issue generally. 0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:11.000 Hearing your conversation with alec, I was actually reminded of 0:23:11.040 --> 0:23:13.919 something we did on Drilled. All the way back in 0:23:14.000 --> 0:23:16.359 season one. There was a story about a group of 0:23:16.359 --> 0:23:19.720 fossil fuel executives who wanted to change the narrative about 0:23:19.720 --> 0:23:23.760 climate change and discovered something very interesting about how masculinity 0:23:23.920 --> 0:23:26.119 relates to climate change messaging. 0:23:26.600 --> 0:23:27.240 Tell me more. 0:23:27.840 --> 0:23:31.199 Okay, So the group was called ICE, not Immigrations and 0:23:31.280 --> 0:23:36.160 Customs Enforcement, the new bad ICE, but the Information Council 0:23:36.280 --> 0:23:39.399 for the Environment. This is early nineteen ninety one, the 0:23:39.520 --> 0:23:42.520 summer of nineteen eighty eight, just a couple of years before, 0:23:42.760 --> 0:23:46.960 had seen Jim Hansen's testimony before Congress that climate change 0:23:47.000 --> 0:23:50.000