1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: It might be hard to remember at this point, but 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: think back to just after the election. This is what 3 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:08,880 Speaker 1: a lot of the news sounded like. 4 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 2: Did an election that was supposed to revolve around women's 5 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 2: issues actually come down to the flight of. 6 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 3: Men young men. 7 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: The headline was that men, and especially young men, swung 8 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:23,080 Speaker 1: big for Trump. His campaign even consulted Baron Trump for 9 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: tips on which podcast he should go on, which young 10 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: male influencers he should court, and with the help of 11 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: money from big oil, Peter Teal and Elon Musk. It worked. 12 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,559 Speaker 1: Not because Trump went on those podcasts per se, but 13 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: because he tapped into the ethos of those guys and 14 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: made himself the candidate for aggrieved young. 15 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 4: Men of the people. I want to bend to know 16 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 4: boys An ross Uh, theil baughn also with the boys 17 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 4: and left, but not least the mighty and powerful Joe Rogan. 18 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: And practically the same breast. Trump promised to roll back 19 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: the rights of women and trans people, conduct mass deportation 20 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: of immigrants, get the EPA, and get rid of anything 21 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:11,479 Speaker 1: that looks like climate policy. At this point, you might 22 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: be wondering why we're talking about the manosphere. On Drilled, 23 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: a climate podcast. The answer is simple, the long standing 24 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: and ever increasing overlap between male grievance culture and climate 25 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: denial and delay. In this four part mini series, we're 26 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: going to explore how gender and environmental issues have intersected 27 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: throughout history, what the fossil fuel industry has done over 28 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: the past century to feminize caring about climate change, and 29 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: what on Earth we might be able to do about it. 30 00:01:41,360 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: We're calling it Carbon Bros. I'm Amy Westervelt, and to 31 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: guide us through much of that story, I'm very happy 32 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: to introduce my co host for this season, the great 33 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 1: Daniel Penny. Daniel's been writing and thinking about these issues 34 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: for a lot longer than I have in GQ, The 35 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 1: New York Times, The New Yorker, and on his own 36 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: podcast on this subject, Non Toxic. 37 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 3: Thanks. Amy, So excited to be doing this show together. 38 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:26,399 Speaker 3: There are a lot of ways malesculinity and climate are 39 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 3: tied up in our culture and politics, and we'll be 40 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 3: diving into a few of them. But I think you're 41 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 3: right that the most obvious place to start is the 42 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 3: so called manosphere. This is the write coded online world 43 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 3: of dudes like Joe Rogan, Andrew Tate, Jordan Peterson, Charlie Kirk. 44 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:49,679 Speaker 5: Stephen Krauda, Matt Walsh, Tucker Carlson, Van Manteno, Theo Wong, 45 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:51,119 Speaker 5: Jake and Logan, Paul. 46 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 6: Lever, King, Andrew Huberman. 47 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 3: Ben Elk, Boys, Flagrant, and many others. 48 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:02,079 Speaker 1: Okay, so I've heard of some of these guys, but 49 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: that is a long ass list, and honestly, some of 50 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 1: these names sound like they've been made up. I don't 51 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: buy it. 52 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 3: It's impossible to keep up with all of them, and 53 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,799 Speaker 3: because we live in such a fractured media ecosystem, you're 54 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 3: not going to hear about many of these guys unless 55 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 3: you're actively seeking them out, or you've got a man 56 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:22,919 Speaker 3: in your life who's a big fan, which I feel 57 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 3: bad for you if you do. Some of these guys 58 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 3: are explicitly anti feminist, but most are just entertainers who 59 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 3: like to talk about typical men's hobbies sports, martial arts, cars, 60 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 3: science and tech, sex and dating with a bit of 61 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 3: right wing climate denile mixed in. 62 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 7: If you're a male in a society with that ethos, 63 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 7: you're associated with rapaciousness and despoilation on the natural front, 64 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 7: and then oppression and atrocity on the social front. It's like, well, 65 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 7: then if you're the least bit conscientious, because this sort 66 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 7: of accusation hurts conscientious. 67 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 8: Young man the most. 68 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 7: Then the best you can do is, well. 69 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 3: Let's say castrate yourself. How would that be? 70 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 9: This climate change narrative, this is a really coofy thing 71 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 9: that people on the left are talk about. This is 72 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:27,040 Speaker 9: because of climate change. This is climate change causes fire. 73 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 9: It's just la. It's not climate change. 74 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 5: Climate change is real, but it's not the most serious 75 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 5: environmental problem in the world. It's not the end of 76 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 5: the world, and we need to be telling kids the truth. 77 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 10: If you don't recognize those voices, that was Canadian psychologist 78 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 10: turned podcaster Jordan Peterson, failed comedian turned MMA announcer turned 79 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 10: podcaster Joe Rogan, and a relatively new intrant to the 80 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 10: manosphere Breakthrough Institute co founder turned to Twitter files thread guy, 81 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 10: self proclaimed journalist and newsletter star somehow not yet a podcaster, 82 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 10: Michael Schellenberger. 83 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: We included him here because he's a super obvious example 84 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: of why we're even talking about the manosphere undrilled in 85 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: the first place. Shellenberger is like horseshoe theory come to life, 86 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 1: and his journey from environmental pr guy to climate skeptic 87 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 1: to dipping a toe in the misogyny and anti trans universe. 88 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 1: Illustrates just how porous the lines between these two worlds is. 89 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: And there are plenty of other dudes like them popping 90 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: up all the time. The podcaster Dan Bongino is actually 91 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: deputy director of the FBI, so I guess there's always 92 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:44,719 Speaker 1: hope that podcasting will land me a powerful government job. 93 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 1: I still cannot get over that that, like someone from 94 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 1: this list is working a pretty high level government job. 95 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 3: For these guys, masculinity and climate are linked in a 96 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 3: larger reactionary project. They want to return world to some 97 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 3: imaginary golden age when energy was cheap and men were 98 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 3: in charge. And their message is resonating, not just with 99 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,599 Speaker 3: the out of work blue collar guys pundits were so 100 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 3: obsessed with. After Trump's victory in twenty sixteen. Those guys 101 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 3: in the diner remember them, but with younger educated men, 102 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 3: black men, Latino men, and plenty of others. According to 103 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 3: Exit Holding in twenty twenty four, Trump won one fifth 104 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 3: of black men and nearly half of Latino men. They 105 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 3: might be strange to quote Andrew Breitbart, but I agree 106 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 3: with him when he said politics is downstream from culture. 107 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 3: For the past decade, these dubiously credentialed but very influential 108 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 3: men have shaped the conversation not just around masculinity, but 109 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 3: around climate too. Sometimes in the same breath. 110 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, that is the piece that feels pretty new to me, 111 00:06:56,440 --> 00:07:00,720 Speaker 1: and also like something that has been pretty strategic and 112 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 1: intentional and in a pretty smart way. This masculine sort 113 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: of reactionary politics has been around for a long time, 114 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: but it's been adapted really easily to tap into some 115 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: real issues facing young men today inflation, wage stagnation, and 116 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: pin those issues on feminists and climate activists. 117 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 3: Peterson and Rogan don't always talk about climate, but they're 118 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 3: doing so more and more these days. Just like fitness 119 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 3: instructors and guys who give business advice on TikTok have 120 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 3: been solely blending political talking points into their podcasts, Peterson 121 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 3: and Rogan have been incorporating fossil fuel talking points into 122 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 3: their shows. 123 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Schellenberger has long been a so called reformed environmentalist 124 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: raising an eyebrow at climate action, but he's only recently 125 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: come around to what I've been calling the gentleman grift. So, 126 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: you know, the relationship between climate deniers and gender warriors 127 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 1: goes both ways. Here's a clip of Schellenberger talking at 128 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: a recent conference for a new fun little group created 129 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: by Peterson called the Alliance for a Responsible Citizenship. It 130 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: brings a lot of the Manosphere folks together with climate 131 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: skeptics like Puren Lomberg and Vivic Ramaswami, hardcore Brexit folks 132 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: like Nigel Farage, far right politicians from the US, UK, 133 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: Australia and Canada, gender critical anti transactivists, and of course 134 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: a sprinkling of dreadwibs. 135 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:42,079 Speaker 5: The moralizing men, the woe men are actually weak men. 136 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 5: Manly men are an improvement. Without any morality or sense 137 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 5: of concern or empathy, they become an Andrew Tait. We 138 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 5: can strive for something better, to be gentlemen. Gentlemen are 139 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 5: men that have the power of violence and aggression, but 140 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 5: they would never use it to take advantage of the 141 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:03,680 Speaker 5: week and the vulnerable. Instead, they would use it to 142 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 5: build a civilized society. 143 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 3: Andrew Tait is a useful foil for the gentleman battalion 144 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 3: of the Manisphere Army. They can always point to Tate, 145 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 3: an alleged sex trafficker and Ponzi schemer and say we're 146 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 3: not misogynists, We're not like that guy, while still spreading 147 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 3: their regressive ideas about gender and their reactionary social views 148 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 3: and complacency about climate change. Even Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, 149 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 3: enemy of all things woke, had this to say when 150 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 3: the Tate Brothers landed in his state to fight a 151 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 3: recent case. 152 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 5: No, Florida is not a place where you're welcome with 153 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:49,199 Speaker 5: those that type of conduct. 154 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 3: And I don't know how it came to this. These 155 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 3: guys go on each other's shows to grow their audiences 156 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 3: and reinforce one another's message, or to just get paid 157 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 3: because there's a lot of fossil fuel money slashing around 158 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 3: the manisphere too. Just sticking with podcasts. Nine out of 159 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 3: the ten with the largest followings across platforms or right leaning, 160 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 3: with a total following of more than one hundred and 161 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 3: ninety seven million, all but one of them hosted by men. 162 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 3: The leading conservative cable news channel Box gets around three 163 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:28,680 Speaker 3: million viewers during prime time. To understand exactly how the 164 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 3: pieces of this puzzle fit together, I sat down with 165 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 3: Kayla Gogherty, author of a new report from Media matters. 166 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 11: What our findings underscore is that the rights as a 167 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 11: disproportionate reached to a wide variety of audiences. We looked 168 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:50,079 Speaker 11: at about three hundred and twenty top online shows that 169 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 11: either have a right leaning or left leaning ideological bent, 170 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 11: and what we found was that a lot of these 171 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 11: shows are not outright saying that they're ideological, and yet 172 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 11: when you dig into the content of the shows, you 173 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 11: start to see how some of these right wing talking 174 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:13,479 Speaker 11: points are seeping into their conversations. And so these audiences 175 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 11: are not going to these shows for politics and news, 176 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 11: and yet they are starting to hear it during these 177 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 11: conversations amid celebrity interviews and other comedians that you know 178 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 11: you might like and want to listen to, and now 179 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 11: you're hearing some of these right wing talking points. During 180 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 11: the election, specifically, you know, we saw Trump appear on 181 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 11: several of these large podcasts, Joe Rogan for instance, Full Send. 182 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 11: And that's why some people have kind of dubbed it 183 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 11: the podcast election. 184 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 3: Boys. I know a lot of you guys are thinking, 185 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 3: like me, You're seeing what's happening in this country. 186 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 5: Everything's just getting. 187 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 3: Really really weird. 188 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 7: You got men plan and women's sports, the borders wide open. 189 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 5: This election might be the most important election in. 190 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 3: US is three and of the restoration. 191 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,079 Speaker 11: They're not going there for news and politics. They're going 192 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 11: there to hear from their favorite comedians. They're going there 193 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 11: to hang out with the bros basically, and so they 194 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 11: go on different shows and they kind of have this 195 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 11: camaraderie and that makes these your listeners kind of feel 196 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 11: like in the club, you know. 197 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: But how did these dudes who just love martial arts 198 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:24,079 Speaker 1: and comedy before become mouthpieces for misogyny and climate denial. 199 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 3: So there are really a few different species of these dudes. 200 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 3: Some of these guys started as legacy media conservative darlings, 201 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 3: like former Fox host Tucker Carlson, who has endorsed the 202 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 3: idea that wind turbines kill whales and that sunning your 203 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 3: scrotum increases sperm quality. And then you've got guys like 204 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 3: Charlie Kirk of Turning Point USA, or Dennis Prager of 205 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 3: the conservative edutainment company Prager You and Ben Shapiro, who 206 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 3: started The Daily Wire, which hosts Jordan Peterson's show. By 207 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 3: the way, these guys represent the next generation of right 208 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:04,200 Speaker 3: wing voice with deep connections to fossil fuel donors like 209 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 3: the Texas fracking billionaires Farris and Dan Wilkes. Amy. I 210 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 3: know you're very familiar with the Wilkes brothers. 211 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: Yes, there's been a few really great pieces of reporting 212 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 1: on these guys over the years. The one I always 213 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: think of is this article that Jeff Dembickie wrote for 214 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: Vice News a while ago where he talked about how 215 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: the Wilkes brothers have really tied this into kind of 216 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:37,199 Speaker 1: evangelical Christianity as well. So, for example, at his church, 217 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:41,719 Speaker 1: Dan Wilkes requires women to quote keep silence and has 218 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: told his congregates that climate change is God's will. Here's 219 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: a quote from a twenty thirteen sermon he delivered, just 220 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: to give you a flavor. He said, if he wants 221 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: the polar caps to remain in place, then he will 222 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: leave them there. 223 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 3: And conservatives have been doing this for a long time, 224 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,680 Speaker 3: building networks of talent to get out their message. Here's Kayla. 225 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 12: Conservatives and conservative donors. They put money into building these networks, 226 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 12: and they have been doing that for years. We saw 227 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 12: them dominate you know, right wing talk radio for instance, 228 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 12: back in the nineties and early two thousands. You know 229 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 12: the rush Limbas and the Glenn Becks, they really dominated 230 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 12: that space. Then you saw them move into cable and 231 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 12: that you know, now you see Fox started to really 232 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 12: dominate that space. We saw that with social media as well, 233 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 12: and now we're really seeing that with the online media ecosystem. 234 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 12: So these they kind of are thinking about the big 235 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 12: picture and trying to build out this infrastructure and have 236 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 12: been doing that for years. 237 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: Okay, so there's an obvious reason why donors like the 238 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: Wilks Brothers would be investing money to boost the careers 239 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 1: of climate denying anti feminist podcasters. 240 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 3: But then there are the dudes like Joe Rogan or 241 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 3: the guys from Flagrant who didn't always have an opinion 242 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 3: on climate change, or their opinion seems to shift all 243 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 3: the time. Sometimes in the case of Brogan, he was 244 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 3: having guests like David Wallace Wells, the climate columnist for 245 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 3: The New York Times and author of the book The 246 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 3: Uninhabitable Earth, which is all about what unchecked climate change 247 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 3: will look like in a few years. So Rogan has 248 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 3: really shifted in recent years, as has his audience, and 249 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 3: part of his shift maybe algorithmic. We've all heard about 250 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 3: the way YouTube and TikTok can radicalize their viewers by 251 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 3: showing them increasingly extreme content just to keep them watching. 252 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 3: So Kayla's team at Media Matters actually did an experiment 253 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 3: about how this works, using clips from the top five 254 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 3: podcasts on TikTok, which include a lot of our guys. 255 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 11: And the algorithm is really good at kind of leading 256 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 11: you down these rabbit holes. We actually just published a 257 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 11: study within the last few days TikTok new TikTok account 258 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 11: and we followed five of the leading podcasters. So we 259 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 11: followed a page that had full sense content for instance, 260 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 11: that had Joe Rogan's content for instance. 261 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 8: Well, the third type. 262 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 9: That got mentioned on mission was reptilios. 263 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 8: They don't want to talk about the reptilion presence at all. 264 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 9: Was there any sort of an explanation did anybody give 265 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 9: you of why they don't want to talk about it? 266 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 11: But we wanted to see what following some of these 267 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 11: kind of podcasters and seeing this content once you're starting 268 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 11: to see that content, we. 269 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 12: Wanted to see where TikTok's for you page would lead you. 270 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 11: We found that the algorithm started leading us down to 271 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 11: conspiracy theories and toxic masculinity videos and by Toxic Toxic 272 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 11: Masculinity videos. 273 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 12: They were often framed as motivational. 274 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 8: What's your dream my father asked, grinding until my bank 275 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 8: account looks like a phone. 276 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 11: They had clips of like expensive watches and boats and 277 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 11: cars and and you know, very. 278 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 12: Kind of Andrew Tate esque. 279 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 11: I would say, where he's talking about, like, you know, 280 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 11: getting rich? 281 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 3: Really I decided to get rich rich. 282 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,639 Speaker 4: Step one is I've tried decided to be very logical 283 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 4: about it. 284 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 3: Just player right, So it's like, I want money? What 285 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 3: is money? 286 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 11: Using even some of his voiceovers, So some of the 287 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,679 Speaker 11: sounds would use his voice and would talk about, you know, 288 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:26,640 Speaker 11: coaching men about their girlfriends. 289 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:28,439 Speaker 12: In one instance, we. 290 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 11: Saw a video say, uh, tell her that you're going 291 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,159 Speaker 11: to quit your job because you want to chase your 292 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 11: dreams and run your own business. 293 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 12: Those sorts of things. 294 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: Wow, that is wild. And how many people are starting 295 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 1: with these podcasts and then winding up watching these clips. 296 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 3: So it's hard to say exactly because these clips are 297 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 3: broken up in so many different ways and distributed around 298 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,879 Speaker 3: the internet. But Kayla, you know, could say more people 299 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 3: are tuning into podcasts and online shows, for instance, than 300 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 3: they are into cable news. We did it, Daniel, We 301 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 3: did it. Unfortunately, I'm not so sure that non toxic 302 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:09,719 Speaker 3: or drilled are included in those top podcasts, but you know, 303 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 3: we're trying. And Kayla also had some interesting data to 304 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 3: back her up, which was that according to Nielsen streaming viewership, 305 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:22,679 Speaker 3: it's forty three percent of Americans versus twenty four percent 306 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,639 Speaker 3: who watch cable or broadcast news, and Pew had a 307 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:31,200 Speaker 3: study that majority of Americans fifty four percent, get most 308 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:32,400 Speaker 3: of their news online. 309 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:33,160 Speaker 11: Wow. 310 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 3: Another Pew study from the previous year in twenty twenty 311 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:39,120 Speaker 3: three found that eighty seven percent of people who hear 312 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 3: the news on podcasts said they expect it to be 313 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 3: mostly accurate, and thirty one percent said that they even 314 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 3: trust the news they hear from podcasts more than traditional news. 315 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: That is terrible because, unlike US, most podcasts do not 316 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:00,880 Speaker 1: fact check like at all. I mean, Jogan is sort 317 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 1: of famously anti fact checking. Okay, so we know that 318 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,880 Speaker 1: people in general are getting their news from podcasts and 319 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: trusting it more than they should, and we know that 320 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:15,360 Speaker 1: more men are getting surprised political talking points when they 321 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:19,879 Speaker 1: tune into Manosphere podcasts, But is that actually translating to 322 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: the voting booth, especially on climate Do we know how 323 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 1: differently men and women actually view the climate crisis and 324 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: how that is turning up in their votes. 325 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 3: So about seven to ten Americans believe in climate change 326 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 3: and think humans are contributing to the warming of the atmosphere. 327 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 3: But there's a gap between men and women, and it's 328 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 3: pretty large, especially when you drill down by age or party. 329 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 3: If you're listening to this podcast and you're a man, 330 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 3: you probably care about climate change. And if you're not 331 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 3: a man, you probably know men who care about climate change. 332 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 3: But I'm sorry to say that drilled and non toxic 333 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:02,360 Speaker 3: listeners aren't not representative of the average American. 334 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 6: Now, Well, we do see differences between men and women 335 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 6: when it comes to climate change. 336 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 3: This is Alec Tyson, Associate director of Research at pe 337 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 3: Research Center. 338 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 6: Women tend to be more concerned about the issue and 339 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 6: more willing to either take action or see themselves as 340 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 6: playing a role in addressing the issue. 341 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,919 Speaker 1: Wow, that is really fascinating and I'm honestly kind of 342 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: surprised that this is still the case. I know that 343 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:30,199 Speaker 1: from stuff that I've worked on before. The pollsters working 344 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:32,640 Speaker 1: for the fossil fuel industry figured this out a long 345 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 1: time ago, like in the nineties, and really leaned into it. 346 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: I did not realize it was still working quite so well. 347 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 3: Right, It is interesting how much that gender gap is 348 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:49,160 Speaker 3: still very present today, and it may actually be getting wider. 349 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 3: Alex studies public views on science and technology, and he's 350 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 3: been looking at the particular differences between men and women 351 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 3: when it comes to whether climate change is happening and 352 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:01,400 Speaker 3: how ct is that we deal with it. 353 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 6: Seventy two percent of women view it as a very 354 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:08,120 Speaker 6: or moderately big problem. That shares fifty six percent among men, 355 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,400 Speaker 6: So a sizeable shares of both groups, but a sixteen 356 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:13,480 Speaker 6: point gap here where women are expressing more concern about 357 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:15,439 Speaker 6: the importance or urgency of the issue. 358 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 3: Here, and for the men who don't believe in climate 359 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 3: change or who don't think it's salient, how does that 360 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 3: lack of interest in climate or lack of belief in 361 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:32,200 Speaker 3: the climate crisis track with other political beliefs or political identities. 362 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 6: So just among men men who lean or identify with 363 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 6: the Republican Party, just twenty nine percent view climate change 364 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 6: as a salient problem. Let's talk about men who leaner 365 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 6: identify with the Democratic Party. Ninety percent view climate change 366 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,919 Speaker 6: as a highly salient problem. That's a sixty one point 367 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 6: gap within men. We're talking about men. We're staying within 368 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 6: gender here, but this partisan difference between Republican men and 369 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 6: Democratic men is enormous. 370 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: Okay, so there's a sixteen point gap, sixteen point gap 371 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 1: that really that does kind of blow my mind between 372 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,160 Speaker 1: American men and women. But then there's also this huge 373 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,880 Speaker 1: divide among men on the importance or even the reality 374 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:19,400 Speaker 1: of climate change depending on their political party affiliation. What's 375 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:19,919 Speaker 1: that about. 376 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 3: So it turns out that climate denial doesn't just correlate 377 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 3: with being a man, but with a particular type of men. 378 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 3: Men who care about the idea of traditional masculinity are 379 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 3: way more likely to be climate deniers. Here's alec on that. 380 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 6: We have great colleagues who did a survey on men 381 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 6: in masculinity, and they share who describe themselves as highly 382 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 6: masculine or very masculine, they tend to be older men 383 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 6: and more politically conservative men. So I looked at that 384 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 6: same group and we looked at some climate attitudes and descriptively, absolutely, 385 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 6: there's a difference that older, more politically conservative men are 386 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 6: both more likely to be themselves asi masculine and more 387 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:05,439 Speaker 6: likely to be skeptical about human contributions to climate change, 388 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 6: and also less concerned about the issue generally. 389 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: Hearing your conversation with alec, I was actually reminded of 390 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,919 Speaker 1: something we did on Drilled. All the way back in 391 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 1: season one. There was a story about a group of 392 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: fossil fuel executives who wanted to change the narrative about 393 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 1: climate change and discovered something very interesting about how masculinity 394 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 1: relates to climate change messaging. 395 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 3: Tell me more. 396 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,199 Speaker 1: Okay, So the group was called ICE, not Immigrations and 397 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:36,160 Speaker 1: Customs Enforcement, the new bad ICE, but the Information Council 398 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 1: for the Environment. This is early nineteen ninety one, the 399 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 1: summer of nineteen eighty eight, just a couple of years before, 400 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 1: had seen Jim Hansen's testimony before Congress that climate change 401 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: was now visible. We had a burning planet on the 402 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: cover of Time magazine. A little bit after this, the 403 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: Real Earth Summit is coming in nineteen ninety two. So 404 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: climate change is on everyone's mind and there's growing census 405 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,920 Speaker 1: that governments need to do something about it. 406 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,160 Speaker 3: I'm guessing the fossil fuel industry didn't like that. 407 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:14,119 Speaker 8: No, they did not. The nationwide heatwave, remember it technically 408 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 8: because it were on a vacation, we were going to 409 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 8: have on the eastern shore, on the Chesapeake Bay, on 410 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 8: the World Waters all one drive. 411 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,439 Speaker 1: This is Fred Palmer, a cole lobbyist who worked on 412 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 1: the ICE campaign, talking to Guardian reporter Graham Redfern. 413 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 8: Jim Hansen, who never was muscled in any circumstances by anybody, 414 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 8: came in front of that subcommittee and announced this with 415 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:42,679 Speaker 8: the leading ede catastrophic global warming, with his loaded dice 416 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 8: and the internet and the best international the next morning, 417 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 8: and we've been harding about it evercess Well, you know, 418 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 8: at the time, I don't think people really understood the 419 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 8: import of it. But I did understand the import of it, 420 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,919 Speaker 8: and I engaged immediately. But ICE was not my idea. 421 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 8: The pr pro where was not my idea. I've always 422 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 8: been about education. But I think being professional channibly did it. 423 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 3: Palmer says he eventually got disillusioned with ICE and decided 424 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 3: to focus more on science and education. But what exactly 425 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,639 Speaker 3: did he mean when he said we did it? What 426 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:21,639 Speaker 3: did ICE do? So? 427 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: ICE was part of a really successful campaign. They figured 428 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: out specific audiences to target with climate Nile talking points, 429 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: and it really moved the needle from the majority of 430 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 1: Americans accepting the science and being concerned to more or 431 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 1: less the mess we have. Now here's Kurt Davies, a 432 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: longtime Greenpeace researcher who's now at the Center for Climate Integrity, 433 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 1: telling us all about their campaign back on Season one 434 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:49,120 Speaker 1: of drilled. 435 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 13: Data indicates eighty nine percent say they have heard of 436 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 13: global warming, eighty two percent claim some familiarity with global warming, 437 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 13: eighty percent claim the problem is somewhat serious, while forty 438 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,120 Speaker 13: five percent claim it is very serious, and thirty nine 439 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 13: percent back federal legislation without any quantification of cost. And 440 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 13: only twenty two percent of those consider themselves green consumers. 441 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:17,359 Speaker 1: So this thing that he's talking about is really important. 442 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 1: It's again nineteen ninety one. Governments are starting to get 443 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: behind the idea of not just national policy, but actually 444 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: global agreements to tackle emissions. And it's not just environmentalists 445 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: who know and care about this. It's breaking through. 446 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 13: So it's penetrated. A vast majority have heard of the issue, 447 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 13: think it's serious, and the campaign is to reverse that, 448 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:46,360 Speaker 13: is to change that. The strategies quote unquote include repositioning 449 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 13: global warming as a theory parentheses, not fact. They talk 450 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 13: about specifically the target audiences of this test round that 451 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 13: they're going to do to see if their theory works, 452 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:02,239 Speaker 13: that they can move people, and it says people who 453 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 13: respond favorably to such statements are quote older, less educated 454 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 13: males from larger households who are not typically active information 455 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 13: seekers and are not likely to be green consumers. 456 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,120 Speaker 3: Let's put that in plain English. They figured out that 457 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 3: old white dudes without college degrees were susceptible to climate 458 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 3: disinformation exactly. 459 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 1: Also fun fact, both Palmer and the Edison Electric Institute 460 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 1: are still around today and still pushing a lot of 461 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 1: the same talking points. They're still trying to protect coal too, 462 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,639 Speaker 1: although Edison is also very into protecting gas at the moment. 463 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 1: Ice is no longer around after an expose decades ago 464 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: leaked their internal documents, but they were really, really effective 465 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: at the time, and their success became the basis of 466 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 1: one of my favorite sociology studies of all time. Daniel, 467 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 1: you know what I'm going to say, Cool Dudes truly 468 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,680 Speaker 1: an excellent title for an academic I've honestly never seen, 469 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,159 Speaker 1: never seen a better title. The subtitle was quote the 470 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,879 Speaker 1: denial of climate change amongst conservative white males in the 471 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,640 Speaker 1: United States. It was conducted by the sociologists Air Micwright 472 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 1: and Riley Dunlap, and they found that conservative white men 473 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: were and I'm quoting here, significantly more likely than other 474 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:26,200 Speaker 1: Americans to endorse denihialist views, and that these differences are 475 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: even greater for those conservative white males who self report 476 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,119 Speaker 1: understanding global warming very well. 477 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the guys who are doing their own research. 478 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: As soon as I read that line, I'm like, oh God, 479 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: I know these I know these men very well. I 480 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 1: love how blunt and straightforward they are. In this study, 481 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 1: they write, we conclude that the unique views of conservative 482 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: white males contribute significantly to the high level of climate 483 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 1: change denial in the United States. Well, not a lot 484 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 1: of gray there, No, It makes it really easy to 485 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: see how we get the conservative talk radio star climate 486 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: denier and anti feminist you know them and love them, 487 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 1: Rush Limbaugh. Right around this time as well. Ice actually 488 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 1: wrote an ad for Rush Limbaugh's show back in nineteen 489 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 1: ninety two. We unfortunately don't have a clip of that ad, 490 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 1: but we've got hours of Rush's rants about climate change. 491 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 1: Here's a little taste. We've had numerous stories in recent years. 492 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 2: About expeditions to Antarctica to study climate change and global 493 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 2: warming getting stuck in ice so thick that icebreakers couldn't 494 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 2: even reach them, and they were shocked, and they were stunned. 495 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 2: They believe their own nonsense that the ice at the 496 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 2: North and South Pauls is melting when it's not. 497 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 3: It's getting bigger again. That was not true. 498 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 1: The North and South Pools are actually melting faster than 499 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 1: many scientists initially predicted. But the upshot of all this 500 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 1: is that we're still dealing with the results of this 501 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,959 Speaker 1: ice media campaign. It's reflected in those opinion numbers that 502 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: Alec from Pugh is talking about. Over the last thirty years, 503 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: climate de nile has become a core part of conservative 504 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: male identity. 505 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 3: But it's not as simple as just blaming the coal 506 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 3: and oil industries for targeting men with misleading information, which 507 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 3: they did. The twisted relationship between masculinity and the domination 508 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 3: of the natural world runs a lot deeper. If we 509 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 3: want to understand why the climate denial messaging of the 510 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 3: far right and the manosphere has been so effective, we 511 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 3: need to wind back the clock to a time when 512 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 3: men were real men, women were real women, and trucks 513 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 3: only needed electricity to power their cigarette lighters. 514 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's our story next time. 515 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 3: Carbon Bros. Is an original series from Drilled and Non 516 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 3: Toxic written by me Daniel Penny. 517 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: And me Amy Westervelt. Our senior producer and sound designer 518 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 1: is Martin Zelt's. He also composed our theme song. 519 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 3: Our audio engineer is Peter Duff. 520 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 1: Fact checking by Shilpa Jindia. 521 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 3: Original artwork by Matthew Fleming. 522 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: Marketing by Maggie Taylor. 523 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 3: As the pod Bros, we've been talking about, love to say, 524 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 3: smash those like and subscribe buttons. 525 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 1: Check out the Non Toxic podcast for more on the manosphere, 526 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 1: and go to Drill dot Media for more climate reporting 527 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: and to support our work. 528 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 3: Lastly, if you know a dude who should be listening 529 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 3: to this show, please share it. See you next time.