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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to sign Stuff, a production of iHeartRadio. I'm

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Speaker 1: hoor cham And in this bonus short episode, we are

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Speaker 1: following up on our recent episode about the search for

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Speaker 1: alien life. In that episode, we talked about what scientists

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Speaker 1: are doing to look for life out there in space,

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Speaker 1: and so now the question is what if we find it?

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Speaker 1: Are we prepared? Would people freak out or would they

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Speaker 1: shrug and go about their regular lives. We're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: to an anthropologist who's been looking into this question. Are

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Speaker 1: we gonna hear her opinion on what discovering aliens would

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Speaker 1: do to the human race. I think her answer at

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Speaker 1: the end will surprise you. So here is my interview

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Speaker 1: with doctor Clara Kapoa as we answer the question what

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Speaker 1: if we find aliens? Well, thank you doctor Coppola for

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Speaker 1: joining us.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. It's really nice meeting you,

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Speaker 2: the famous cartoonist, the creator.

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Speaker 1: Of the Thank you so when.

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Speaker 2: I miss Clara. I studied socio culturalthropology. I specialized in

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Speaker 2: science and technology studies, and my question was search for

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Speaker 2: life beyond Earth. So I was writing about what it

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Speaker 2: really means to people to think about what the other

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Speaker 2: life is, how people used to search for that life

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Speaker 2: or how they would work with the idea.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Kapova has worked with NASA and the European Space

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Speaker 1: Agency on several projects, but one of them was to

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Speaker 1: get a sense of what people see in their heads

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Speaker 1: when they imagine an alien So, for example, take a

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Speaker 1: moment and close your eyes unless you're driving, and picture

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Speaker 1: in your head when an alien being would look like.

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Speaker 1: Did you imagine little green men or women, or maybe

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Speaker 1: something insect like? Or may you imagine a reptilian creature

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Speaker 1: like the ones in Star Wars or Star Trek. Well

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Speaker 1: you're not alone.

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Speaker 2: When I was doing my research and talking to people,

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Speaker 2: not only scientists but also citizens of Europe, I would

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Speaker 2: just ask for their idea about the otherness or other

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Speaker 2: life was. You know, there are hundreds and hundreds of

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Speaker 2: imagined life form that are being brought to us by

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Speaker 2: different books and movies and series and the variety of

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Speaker 2: our imaginations. It's amazing, actually, So a lot of us

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Speaker 2: would read a book when we were little or at

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Speaker 2: school or what you movie, and people tend to always

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Speaker 2: remembered that as a memory, and this memory almost defines

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Speaker 2: what they imagine that the other life could be.

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Speaker 1: It's always something you remember from your childhood.

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Speaker 2: I would say. So that's the feedback I was getting

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Speaker 2: from people.

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Speaker 1: So people's expectations of meeting aliens are shaped by the

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Speaker 1: movies and books in media we consume. And what's interesting

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Speaker 1: is what those depictions, which are made by writers and

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Speaker 1: artists say about us.

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Speaker 2: What I find really interesting think about imagined extraterrestrials. They

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Speaker 2: always somehow mirror what we are or we are not.

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Speaker 2: Either it's negation or it's based on what we see

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Speaker 2: in the nature I see.

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Speaker 1: What we imagine aliens might be is a reflection of

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Speaker 1: ourselves and how we see ourselves. We want to see ourselves,

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Speaker 1: how we don't want to see ourselves. Can you explain

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Speaker 1: that a little more.

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Speaker 2: This is based on the first contact scenario, So when

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Speaker 2: people imagine first contact with the extraterristrial, and it's something

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Speaker 2: that I'm often asked about, like what if we meet,

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Speaker 2: what it would be like? What do you think will happen?

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Speaker 2: And of course there's been already a research john about this,

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Speaker 2: and it's mostly based on the encounters of humans with

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Speaker 2: other humans, and this is reflected in the movies or

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Speaker 2: the stories as well.

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Speaker 1: Okay, what Tarkakapopa is saying is that it's very hard

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Speaker 1: to imagine something you've never seen before, so our brains

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Speaker 1: automatically go to things we have seen before, or that

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Speaker 1: we've seen in bo or movies. I asked her if

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Speaker 1: she thought that was a good idea to prepare ourselves

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Speaker 1: for potentially meeting aliens. Do you think it's a good

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Speaker 1: idea to use that as a reference?

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Speaker 2: What else do we have?

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: That's the thing, you know. We use this because the

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Speaker 2: human experience we have with encounters with something alien or unknown.

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Speaker 1: In other words, we are probably completely unprepared to meet

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Speaker 1: alien life because we only know what we know and

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Speaker 1: we don't know what we don't know. Okay. In the

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Speaker 1: main episode about aliens, we talked about how people are

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Speaker 1: searching for two kinds of life out there. Some scientists

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Speaker 1: are doing astrobiology, meaning they're looking for basic life like

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Speaker 1: microbes that used to live on Mars or maybe self

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Speaker 1: replicating molecules on the moons of Jupiter. And then there

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Speaker 1: are scientists who are looking for intelligent life out there

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Speaker 1: or aliens with advanced technology. According to doctor Kapova, how

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Speaker 1: we'll react depends on which of the two we find

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Speaker 1: first the people I talk to.

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Speaker 2: Most people I interviewed acknowledge that there will be a

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Speaker 2: different reaction dependent on the life form or the type

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Speaker 2: of the life form that will be.

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Speaker 1: Discovered, Meaning you probably react differently if I told you

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Speaker 1: we found microbes at Mars than if I told you

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Speaker 1: there's an alien flying saucer outside your window right now.

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Speaker 1: And doctor Kapova also found that your reaction depends on

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Speaker 1: how old you are.

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Speaker 2: Young people today they've seen so many science fiction movies

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Speaker 2: that they almost like, yeah, of course there's like somewhere,

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Speaker 2: but it's so far away and will never see it,

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Speaker 2: while older generation be, oh my god, this is like

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Speaker 2: the word changing question, you know. So it almost feels

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Speaker 2: like pop culture has been bombarded us with new ideas

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Speaker 2: that were almost like gotten used to it.

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Speaker 1: Do you think the younger generation will not be very

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Speaker 1: surprised or won't be very changed by this information.

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Speaker 2: That's a good question from what I heard from people.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people think that it wouldn't mistake that much,

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Speaker 2: but it's tect my everyday life. Unlikely.

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Speaker 1: You don't think there'll be a fundamental shift in how

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Speaker 1: people think about their lives or civilization or humans.

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Speaker 2: You know, our planet consists of six billion people. It's

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Speaker 2: really really hard to say how out the society react.

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Speaker 2: So who are we talking about? You know, there has

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Speaker 2: been a study done that the people in Asia actually

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Speaker 2: think that aliens are mostly walking amongst us, but we

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Speaker 2: just can't see them. So we also know that each

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Speaker 2: culture you have some sort of like a template or yeah,

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Speaker 2: a template through which this discovery will be perceived. And

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Speaker 2: if we're talking about the change of the world, this

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Speaker 2: will be almost a personal thing, right. Well, I'm just

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Speaker 2: trying to say that there is no generic answer that

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Speaker 2: would cover all people on planet. I see.

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Speaker 1: It would be different for each and every single one

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Speaker 1: of us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I say.

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Speaker 1: In other words, we may not know how the world

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Speaker 1: will react if we find alien life until it actually happens. Okay,

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Speaker 1: The last question I asked doctor Kapova was what would

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Speaker 1: it mean to her to discover aliens? What would it

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Speaker 1: mean to you if we found life in other planets

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Speaker 1: or somewhere else in the universe. Let's say it's the

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Speaker 1: astrobiology kind. What would you think?

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Speaker 2: So I would think that I have now an answer

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Speaker 2: to one of the questions I've been asking myself for

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Speaker 2: a very long time. But when I was a child,

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Speaker 2: I was really curious, like is there something else? Are

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Speaker 2: you really alone? Where do we came from? Who are we?

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Speaker 2: So I would have that answer and I would be delighted.

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Speaker 2: That's it.

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Speaker 1: Would you change anything about your life right now?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 1: Would you still go sailing to Antarctica next month?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 1: I didn't tell you before. Doctor Kapova recently took a

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Speaker 1: leave from academic research to work on a sailboat, and

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Speaker 1: she's scheduled to sail to Antarctica next month. So would

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Speaker 1: she still sail to Antarctica if we found my chrobial

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Speaker 1: life in another planet?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely? Yes?

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Speaker 1: Okay, what if it was the alien civilization kind that

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Speaker 1: we discovered?

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Speaker 2: That is a different story, because if we could communicate

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Speaker 2: with them, that I would be curious to know more

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Speaker 2: about them.

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Speaker 1: Interesting, So then you might not go on that sailing

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Speaker 1: ship to Antarctica. Let's say NASA has your contact information.

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Speaker 1: European Space Agency has your contact They say, Clara Nay simplication,

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Speaker 1: which is established contact. Can you come in and help

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Speaker 1: us ask them questions?

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Speaker 2: Okay, I would go because that will be two grays

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Speaker 2: about I think.

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Speaker 1: You would go you would definitely change your life.

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Speaker 2: Of course, I would want to know. It's one of

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Speaker 2: the most fundamental questions, and I would be really curious.

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Speaker 2: So if you asked me, I would probably go, yes.

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Speaker 1: I think that perfectly illustrates the range of reactions we

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Speaker 1: might have depending on what we find out there.

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Speaker 2: Yes, as I said, it really depends on the person.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure we would find commonalities, but it would be

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Speaker 2: an amazing anthropological study on that on the humans or

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Speaker 2: the aliens, I guess in the interactions.

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Speaker 1: Oh fantastic. Well, thank you so much for joining us.

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Speaker 1: Like krek Kapova, it was my pleasure.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me tonight.

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Speaker 1: All right. I hope you enjoyed that short bonus episode

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Speaker 1: and that it maybe got you to think about what

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Speaker 1: would mean to you to find out we're not alone

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Speaker 1: in the universe. Thanks for joining us. See you next

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Speaker 1: time you've been listening to Science Stuff. A production of iHeartRadio,

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Speaker 1: written and produced by me Or hey Hm, edited by

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Speaker 1: Rose Seguda, Executive producer Jerry Rowland, an audio engineer and

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Speaker 1: mixer Chandler Mace and you can follow me on social media.

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Speaker 1: Just search for PhD Comics and the name of your

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Speaker 1: favorite platform. Be sure to subscribe to sign stuff on

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Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts,

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Speaker 1: and please tell your friends we'll be back next Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: another episode