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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. I'm June Grosso. Every

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Speaker 1: day we bring you insight and analysis into the most

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Speaker 1: important legal news of the day. You can find more

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Speaker 1: episodes of the Bloomberg Law Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud

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Speaker 1: and on Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. Deputy Attorney General

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Speaker 1: Rod Rosenstein has worked at the Department of Justice for

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Speaker 1: thirty years, but it's only in the last two years

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Speaker 1: that his name has become a household word as he

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Speaker 1: took the helm of the Mueller investigation. Now there's speculations

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Speaker 1: swirling around Rosenstein again. First because Attorney General William Barr

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Speaker 1: told the public as Rosenstein stood behind him that Rosenstein

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Speaker 1: helped him come to a conclusion that there was no

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Speaker 1: case for obstruction on the Mueller report. Rod has been

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Speaker 1: an invaluable partner, and I am grateful that he is

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Speaker 1: willing to help me and has been able to see

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Speaker 1: the Special Counsel's investigation through to its conclusion. Thanks Rod.

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Speaker 1: Now with reports from The Washington Post that Rose and

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Speaker 1: Stein reassured President Trump that quote, I can land the

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Speaker 1: plane when he was in danger of losing his job again,

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Speaker 1: joining me as former federal prosecutor Elie Honig Ellie, what

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Speaker 1: do you make of the report on that conversation with

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Speaker 1: Rosenstein and the Trump Well, I've had concerns about it

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Speaker 1: from when it happened back in the fall June. Um.

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Speaker 1: Look to me, it's smacked of a loyalty test. If

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Speaker 1: you remember, there was reporting that came out in the

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Speaker 1: New York Times that Rosenstein had considered wearing a wire

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Speaker 1: against Trump, then had invoked the twenty five amend And

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Speaker 1: now it's not clear how serious it was or whether

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Speaker 1: that actually happened, but it was reported, and then Trump

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Speaker 1: essentially summoned Rob Rosenstein into the White House and then

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Speaker 1: he canceled on him. But then he ended up having

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Speaker 1: Rob Rosenstein come with him on Air Force One, which Rosenstein,

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Speaker 1: I think, in an error of judgment, agreed to do.

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Speaker 1: A prosecutor, especially a high ranking UH officer at d J,

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Speaker 1: should never be meeting one on one with the President

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Speaker 1: of the United States, particularly if they're going to be

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Speaker 1: discussing specific cases. Now we don't know if Rosenstein had

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Speaker 1: had an explicit conversation with Trump, but we do know

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Speaker 1: that when that flight was over, Trump sort of told everybody,

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Speaker 1: We're okay. The quote from from Trump was that that

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Speaker 1: Rosenstein quote said he has a lot of respect for me,

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Speaker 1: and he was very nice and we'll see um so.

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Speaker 1: And then in the next breath Trump said no collusion,

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Speaker 1: no obstruction, etcetera. So the implication there is that rosen

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Speaker 1: Sein gets to keep his job because I like him

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Speaker 1: and he said nice things about me. And I think

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Speaker 1: that's a huge problem for the number two persons at

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Speaker 1: the Department of Justice. What about the number one person,

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Speaker 1: the a G and the president. What is their relationship.

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Speaker 1: Where's the line that the a G can't cross? I

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Speaker 1: think it ought to be the exact same as I

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Speaker 1: just articulated now. At the time, the AG was Jeff Sessions,

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Speaker 1: who had recused himself off of the Russia case. But look,

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Speaker 1: obviously an Attorney general has to communicate with the President

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Speaker 1: of the United States at times, one on one about

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Speaker 1: policy matter, security matters, uh agor priorities, that kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: I think the line is specific cases that may relate

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Speaker 1: to the president. I don't think there's anything wrong with

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Speaker 1: the President saying, hey, Attorney General, you're doing this important

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Speaker 1: investigation of let's say, a terrorist attack that happened on

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Speaker 1: our soil or a major financial case. Can you update

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Speaker 1: me confidentially? I don't have a problem with that, But

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Speaker 1: when there's an ongoing criminal investigation that where the president

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Speaker 1: himself and people close to him are subjects and targets,

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Speaker 1: then any prosecutor, whether the Attorney General, the deputy Attorney General,

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Speaker 1: or a U. S. Attorney needs to tell the president

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Speaker 1: all the respect. I'm not comfortable discussing with that with you.

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Speaker 1: It would compromise my independence. And if you want an example,

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Speaker 1: I'll point you to my old boss, pre Berrara, when

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Speaker 1: he was the U. S. Attorney for the Southern District

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Speaker 1: of New York got a call from Donald Trump uh

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Speaker 1: and pre declined to to to return the call. And

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Speaker 1: it may have been one of the reasons that President

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Speaker 1: fire pre Berrara. But Pre did the right thing and

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Speaker 1: he called the counsel at the Justice Department and said, hey,

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Speaker 1: I got this call from the President. I don't know

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Speaker 1: whether it's appropriate for me to return it. And that's

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Speaker 1: the right way to handle a situation like this, Ellie.

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Speaker 1: I've often wondered if the Democrats were not so anxious

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Speaker 1: to have Rod rosen Stein guarding the Mueller investigation, whether

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Speaker 1: they would have criticized him and asked for him to

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Speaker 1: recuse himself because of his role in in writing the

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Speaker 1: first resignation of James call me, it's a great question,

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Speaker 1: and we got even that question became even more complicated

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Speaker 1: with the release of the Mueller Report. And I've not

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Speaker 1: heard a good answer. Why did Rod Rosenstein not recuse himself?

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Speaker 1: Right off the bat, he was a central player in

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Speaker 1: the in the events that were being investigated, and that's

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Speaker 1: a traditional conflict of interest. As you said, he authored

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Speaker 1: that memo which became the as Mueller found a pretextual

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Speaker 1: justification for firing comey. So Rod Rosen's had becomes a

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Speaker 1: key fact witness. And then we've learned at other points

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Speaker 1: in Mueller's report about other incidents where Rod Rosenstein I'm

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Speaker 1: not saying he was he did anything necessarily obstructive, but

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Speaker 1: he was a witness to obstructive action, or he was

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Speaker 1: mentioned as somebody through whom obstructive action should be taken.

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Speaker 1: For example, the president ordered Don McGann to have Rod

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Speaker 1: Rosenstein fire Mueller. Now McGann did not follow through on that,

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Speaker 1: But again, Rosenstein, if you're in the cast of characters,

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Speaker 1: you should not be a protebut in the case, and

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Speaker 1: Rosenstein has not given any sort of coherent explanation for

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Speaker 1: how he was not conflicted. I know he was vetted

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Speaker 1: through d j's ethics folks, but but but I don't

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Speaker 1: see how they reached their conclusion. There are so many

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Speaker 1: questions around so many of the people here, and especially

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Speaker 1: if you read the Mueller Report in full, you start

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Speaker 1: to see, especially in the footnotes. The footnotes say a

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Speaker 1: lot in that report. Thanks so much, Ellie. That's former

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Speaker 1: federal prosecutor Ellie Honig. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Law Podcast. You can subscribe and listen to the show

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Speaker 1: on Apple podcast, SoundCloud, and on Bloomberg dot com slash podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm June Rosso. This is Bloomberg m HM.