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Speaker 1: Hi, their friends. Welcome back to the playlist. This episode

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Speaker 1: is our list of horror movies that change the genre.

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Speaker 1: It's from back in twenty seventeen, and it's as timely

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Speaker 1: today as it was back then. Horror is probably my

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Speaker 1: favorite genre of all films, and I hope you guys

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Speaker 1: like it too, even if you're not into horror movies.

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Speaker 1: And even if you're not into horror movies, I hope

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Speaker 1: you guys will like this episode two. It's just that interesting.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to stuff you should know from HowStuffWorks dot com.

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Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, Charles W.

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Speaker 1: Chuck Bryant Towdy, middle names Wayne, my middle names Malcolm.

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Speaker 1: There we have I always.

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Speaker 2: Forget about that. Malcolm.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Wayne named after Wayne Cooin.

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Speaker 2: Right, Uh no, John, Wayne, and you were named after

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Speaker 2: Malcolm in the middle.

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Speaker 1: That's right, right. Frankie Munis is my namesake. I hope

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Speaker 1: he's okay.

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Speaker 2: Early, Brian Kranston too. I used to love that show.

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Speaker 1: Oh, it's a great show. I watched it like within

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Speaker 1: the last couple of months. I was cleaning the house

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Speaker 1: and put it on Netflix and still great. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's really it is. A good show.

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Speaker 2: So you clean your house, you put on your VR

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Speaker 2: goggles and just cue up Malcolm in the Middle. No,

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Speaker 2: I just walk around and bump into things and right exactly.

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Speaker 1: But I put on like a huge feather duster suit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so you're just cleaning and bumping into things.

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Speaker 1: That's right, That's how I do it. Wow, Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: works kind of.

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Speaker 2: Well, someone's gonna take that idea, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Like the Sharknado.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but they should just they should sell that suit

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Speaker 2: with a purple drink.

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Speaker 1: I think you just get one spot on the floor,

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Speaker 1: really really clean.

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Speaker 2: What are you going to title this one, by the way,

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Speaker 2: because this is your pick and we title our own

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Speaker 2: shows episodes.

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Speaker 1: Some horror films that change the genre, all right, and.

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Speaker 2: You should add this aka how could you guys forget blank?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, we should say like this. First of all,

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Speaker 1: this is a Grabster article, so it's Grabster's list. Sure,

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Speaker 1: and he knows what he's talking about. If you look

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Speaker 1: at some of the entries, some don't even have source tags. Whoa,

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Speaker 1: he's just like, I just know.

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Speaker 2: He should just trust grabs her.

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Speaker 1: But we even took his list and carved some out

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Speaker 1: and put some in. Sure, so this is how about this?

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Speaker 1: This is Josh and Chuck's idea of some horror films

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Speaker 1: that change the genre, featuring the mind of the Grabster.

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Speaker 2: Yes, in other words, it is not a complete list

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Speaker 2: of every horror film that changed the genre. Yes, because

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Speaker 2: I would argue that well, and actually I see Grabster

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Speaker 2: put Texas Chainsaw Masacre in there.

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Speaker 1: He said that if this were a top fifteen list,

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Speaker 1: that would be in there. So would Alien.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he has that Alien ring Goo and the US

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Speaker 2: remake Ring and I would lobby for Well, Psycho didn't

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Speaker 2: make it onto his list, which but we're going to

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Speaker 2: put that in. And there was one more. Oh, even

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Speaker 2: though I didn't really think it was that great, the

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Speaker 2: movie Saw, I think kind of changed horror films. And

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Speaker 2: that's what this list is. Not best horror films, but

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Speaker 2: things that kind of changed the game. Yeah, it seems

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Speaker 2: like Saw kind of kicked off that.

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Speaker 1: That torture porn, Yeah, didn't it. I can't remember if

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Speaker 1: it was that or Hostile, one of the two. It

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Speaker 1: was definitely one of the two.

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Speaker 2: For a subgenre.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's pretty accurate, actually it is.

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Speaker 2: But most of these are movies that either were the

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Speaker 2: first of its kind and maybe did start a subject

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Speaker 2: or movies that were so popular that they just, you know,

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Speaker 2: kind of rewrote how people view horror movies. Some of

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Speaker 2: them because of marketing, some because they were really good movies,

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Speaker 2: some because of box office, but all of these I

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Speaker 2: don't think anyone could argue did not change the genre.

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Speaker 2: How about that?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I think that's well put, dude. And before we

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Speaker 1: get started speaking of horror, I want to give a

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Speaker 1: plug too my friend Toby's movie that's coming out. He's

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Speaker 1: a producer on a movie coming out call The Ghost Story.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Toby. When we met Toby, well you knew Toby

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Speaker 2: before me, of course, because he's your friend and I

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Speaker 2: know him through you me, so really yeah, but he

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Speaker 2: was he was small time, doing short films and stuff.

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Speaker 2: And since that time, and this has been within the

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Speaker 2: last like since we've been doing this podcast, he's now

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Speaker 2: big time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. They did Pete's Dragon, Yeah, and then yeah they

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Speaker 1: have this. They did an'th them. Body Saints was I

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Speaker 1: think the one that they kind of broke out.

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Speaker 2: With, which I love that movie, and then.

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Speaker 1: This one definitely kind of falls into that same look

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Speaker 1: and mood and feel, which it's called the Ghost Story,

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Speaker 1: and I think it comes out in July, and I

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Speaker 1: think it's labeled a drama rather than horror or even

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Speaker 1: supernatural or thriller. But the reason I tie it into

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Speaker 1: horror is because A twenty four is releasing it and

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Speaker 1: A twenty four is killing it with horror movies lately.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good that's a good outfit.

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Speaker 1: They did The Witch, they did The Black Coat's Daughter.

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Speaker 1: Have you seen that? No, it's on Amazon Prime. It's

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Speaker 1: on Amazon Prime right now. No, it's not it, dude.

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Speaker 1: It's one of the best horror movies I've seen in

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Speaker 1: a while. I think The Witch is probably my favorite

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Speaker 1: right now. Yeah, Black Coat's Daughter is a close second.

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Speaker 1: And then last night I saw it Comes at Night

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Speaker 1: in the theater and it Comes at Night actually upset

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Speaker 1: my stomach the ending? Did it?

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Speaker 2: Was?

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Speaker 1: It was that rough?

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think we're we've we're at a place with

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Speaker 2: horror movies that we haven't been in a long time,

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Speaker 2: like a really genuine good spot. Yeah, like the whole

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Speaker 2: torture porn sort of era is over and the found

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Speaker 2: footage thing is so played.

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Speaker 1: Oh man.

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Speaker 2: But I think we like with movies like The Witch.

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Speaker 2: I think we've really like, there are some really creative

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Speaker 2: uh it follows. Did you see that one? Yeah, like

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Speaker 2: some just really creative ways of bringing scares that I

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Speaker 2: haven't seen before.

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Speaker 1: Get Out.

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Speaker 2: That was amazing to get Man, I haven't seen it.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna love it. I'm envious of you. It's really

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Speaker 1: it's great movie, Chuck, you love it.

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Speaker 3: Well.

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Speaker 2: I don't get to the movies much anymore, and the

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Speaker 2: only time I could was a couple of weeks ago

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Speaker 2: and I elected to see Wonder Woman.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, not a good choice.

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Speaker 2: So long way of saying congratulations to Toby and his new.

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Speaker 1: Film, well it's funny. We also need to congratulate Toby too,

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Speaker 1: because Toby just got married. Toby Nnell are now married,

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Speaker 1: so congratulations to them as well.

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Speaker 2: So this is this new movie with his directing partner

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Speaker 2: David Lowry, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and Rooney Mara. Yeah, they definitely do. So it's

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Speaker 1: gonna be good. I'm looking forward to it.

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Speaker 2: Awesome.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So let's get started. Thanks for indulging that.

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Speaker 2: Thank you everybody.

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Speaker 1: So the first, the first movie on our list is

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Speaker 1: what's widely considered the first horror movie, and it's a

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Speaker 1: nineteen twenty movie, out of Germany that basically was the

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Speaker 1: first film that undertook what's the artistic movement known as

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Speaker 1: German expressionism. Yeah, it's called The Cabinet of Doctor Kalighari.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean some say, like you said, it was

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Speaker 2: the first horror movie. Some say it was the first

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Speaker 2: cult film. It. Well, just you may not be able

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Speaker 2: to get to the whole thing if you're not into

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Speaker 2: silent movies, but you should queue up a little bit

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Speaker 2: of it and watch a little bit of it because

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Speaker 2: it's hugely impactful and still to this day like very

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Speaker 2: disconcerting to look at because of it how ominous and

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Speaker 2: weird it looked. Yeah, just physically looked.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Like the sets that they built are obviously constructive manufactured.

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Speaker 1: They were not in any way, shape or form going

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Speaker 1: for realism. They were going for surrealism for sure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And so like the staircases are at crazy weird curves

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Speaker 1: and angles, and like everything from the house, the house's

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Speaker 1: rooftops to the blades of grass are super pointy and sharp,

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Speaker 1: and the shadows that they employed were just perfect. You've

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Speaker 1: never seen a better use of shadows than this. They

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Speaker 1: didn't get in the way, they just created this mood,

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Speaker 1: and it was the first movie to really kind of

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Speaker 1: do that, to just take to use the camera for

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Speaker 1: something other than capturing realism. And for that reason it's

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Speaker 1: considered the first horror movie because that's such a standard

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Speaker 1: part of horror, whether large like in large part like

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Speaker 1: in a Tim Burton movie, or in small part you

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Speaker 1: know where you're using small spaces to create claustrophobia. The

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Speaker 1: idea of using the set to mess with the viewer's mind,

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Speaker 1: I think is born in doctor Caligary's cabinet.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's almost like they took a child and gave

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Speaker 2: them construction paper and said cut out scary things, right,

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Speaker 2: And then like that movie The Baba Duke, I think

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Speaker 2: the actual book within the Baba Duke was hugely inspired

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Speaker 2: by this. The actual movie itself. The plot is about

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Speaker 2: a side show operator, a hypnotist who has a patient

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Speaker 2: that he takes around to the side shows with a

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Speaker 2: sleep disorder. Supposedly he's been asleep his entire life, and

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Speaker 2: he uses this patient to commit murder.

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Speaker 1: Right, he's like a sleepwalker, yeah, somnambulist.

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Speaker 2: So that in itself is a pretty frightening plot, and

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Speaker 2: to think about that being cooked up in nineteen twenty

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Speaker 2: when there were really not such things that you think

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Speaker 2: of as horror movies. Is pretty impressive.

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Speaker 1: And then some of the deeper critiques I've seen of

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Speaker 1: it was like the explanation for why the filmmakers chose

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Speaker 1: like these weird odd angles to kind of depict insanity

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Speaker 1: or that kind of thing. Yeah, was rooted in World

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Speaker 1: War One. The horrors of World War One had just

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Speaker 1: been seen and revealed and recently taken place, and it

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Speaker 1: upended Europe in general and especially Germany as well. And

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Speaker 1: that the idea is that they might not have had

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Speaker 1: this idea, They might not have had this desire, this

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Speaker 1: drive to create this this weird set, and in fact

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Speaker 1: this weird movie had World War One not happened.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's this writer, Jeff Saparito who kind of put

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Speaker 2: it this way about German expressionism because I wasn't exactly

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Speaker 2: sure how to define it, but you're kind of right

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Speaker 2: on the money. He said. Germany was largely isolated from

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Speaker 2: the rest of the world following World War One, so

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Speaker 2: expressionism therefore became confined to the country. Refers to a

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Speaker 2: number of creative movements from World War One through the

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Speaker 2: nineteen twenties, expressionist works examined the current and future state

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Speaker 2: of the culture through bold and artistic creations of creativity,

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Speaker 2: and often explored topics of madness, betrayal, and other intellectual concepts.

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Speaker 2: And nothing encapsulates these ideas more than the Cabinet of

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Speaker 2: Doctor Caligi.

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Speaker 1: That's basically what I said.

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Speaker 2: Yeah you did you read that or were you just that?

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I read that one or not.

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Speaker 1: It sounded kind of familiar.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, just say you came up with that.

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Speaker 1: So the idea of the set just creating like a

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Speaker 1: creepy tone in tech shoot everything that was Doctor Calgary.

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Speaker 1: That's how it changed the genre.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Tim Burton say thank you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Have you seen Coraline? No?

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Speaker 2: But I know it.

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Speaker 1: It's they did that to very good effect.

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Speaker 2: You know, I think Hodgman does a voice in that,

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Speaker 2: doesn't he He does?

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Speaker 1: He does the dad. He did a spectacular job because

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Speaker 1: you actually forget it's Hodgman while you're watching it. That's impossible,

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Speaker 1: all right, Chuck, Moving on, that was nineteen twenty. We're

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Speaker 1: going to fast forward all the way to what nineteen sixty.

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Speaker 2: Nineteen sixty three. If you're talking about Blood.

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Speaker 1: Feast, Well, I wasn't bot lets.

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Speaker 2: Simon Abrams of Roger Ebert dot Com says, this Bloodfeast

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Speaker 2: is a terrible film, and a historically important one too. Yep,

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Speaker 2: And I think that's sort of the deal with Blood Feast.

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Speaker 2: It is not good by any accounts.

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Speaker 1: Did you watch any of it? Yeah, sure, it's not good.

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Speaker 2: No, it's not good. It's terrible. It was written basis

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Speaker 2: on a fourteen page outline, didn't even have a script.

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Speaker 1: It's got the same cloying technic color of like an

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Speaker 1: early Hawaii five zero episode.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. Directed by Herschel, Gordon Lewis and producer

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Speaker 2: David F. Friedman. And basically the idea was this, these

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Speaker 2: guys did not see films as art. They saw them

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Speaker 2: as a business and thought you were foolish if you

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Speaker 2: thought it was anything else. So they sat around they

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Speaker 2: brainstormed movies that they thought no one else would make.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because they started out making like Porky's esque type movies. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and they were doing fine with that. But apparently they

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Speaker 1: were successful enough with it that there started to be

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Speaker 1: imitators and the market was crowded, so they said, where

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Speaker 1: can we go make movies that no one else is

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Speaker 1: gonna make.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because we want to shock people essentially. So a

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Speaker 2: couple of ideas they had that did not make the

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Speaker 2: list was con Man Evangelist and Nazi Torture, which.

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Speaker 1: Were later made.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And they finally said, you know what no

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Speaker 2: one's really done yet is hardcore gore. Yep, Like everyone

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Speaker 2: always cuts away when the knife comes, and you're like,

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Speaker 2: what if we showed the grossest glorious stuff imaginable on screen?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And even still they didn't show so like one

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Speaker 1: of the first murder a woman stabbed through the eye

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Speaker 1: and then the murderer hacked their legs off of the machete, right,

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Speaker 1: and they didn't show the knife penetrate the eye. They

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Speaker 1: didn't show the machete making contact with the skin. But

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Speaker 1: what they did in blood Feasts and what made blood

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Speaker 1: Feast the first of its kind, was they would show

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Speaker 1: the what came after that. They would show the brains

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Speaker 1: on the ground. Yeah, they would show the entrails like

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Speaker 1: on the knife. They would show the leg being you know,

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Speaker 1: that had been dismembered, being put into a bag, and

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Speaker 1: like the wound that was left by Yeah, like that

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Speaker 1: this was huge. No one had ever done anything like

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Speaker 1: that on film BEFO four No.

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Speaker 2: And it paid off. They depending on who you ask,

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Speaker 2: the budget was anywhere from like twenty to thirty grand

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Speaker 2: and it made between seven and thirty million dollars, Like

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Speaker 2: I said, depending on where you get your info. But

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Speaker 2: by all accounts, it was a huge financial success, yeah,

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Speaker 2: compared to what they paid to make it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And they shot it in I think six days

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Speaker 1: or something down in Miami. Yeah, based on a fourteen

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Speaker 1: page outline. There wasn't even a script. It as an outline.

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Speaker 1: Basically it was like murderer goes and kills this girl. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: next girl, murderer comes in, kills girl, cuts off leg

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Speaker 1: that kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah. I mean, if it matters the movies about

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Speaker 2: a serial killer caterer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it. There's your plot right there.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: But the it was just such a revolutionary movie that

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Speaker 1: the censors at the time there wasn't such a thing

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Speaker 1: as the MPAA hadn't been formed yet, and there was

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Speaker 1: basically no one except for local censors overseeing movies.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So you know, you could be playing in one town

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Speaker 1: to all audiences and then the next town over it

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Speaker 1: could be banned, but the sensors had never seen anything

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Speaker 1: like it and they didn't know what to do with it.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, it was hugely successful commercially too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And another big impact it had was it inspired

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Speaker 2: a generation of special effects. But basically, let's be honest,

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Speaker 2: young boys who were doing this on their own Super

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Speaker 2: eight films right and said, wait, I can get a

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Speaker 2: job doing this.

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Speaker 1: Yep. So, including Tom Savini, I think was inspired by it,

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Speaker 1: wasn't he? Or was he inspired by Yeah? I think

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Speaker 1: he was inspired by Blood Feast?

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Speaker 2: Oh wow?

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Speaker 1: And then we should also give a mention to the

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Speaker 1: Grand gug y'all? Is that how you think it's pronounced? Sure,

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Speaker 1: Granguien y'all. It was a theater in Paris, I believe,

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Speaker 1: from the late nineteen century on to I think nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty two, so the year before Blood Feast came out,

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Speaker 1: it had closed up, but it used to do this

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Speaker 1: stuff on stage. It was like a gore fest and

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Speaker 1: there was lots of like blood and sex and like

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Speaker 1: depraved themes in the plays that were put on at

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Speaker 1: this theater. People loved it, they were crazy for it,

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Speaker 1: and this was kind of like the Grand Guignol tradition

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Speaker 1: put onto film for the first time, and who ray

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Speaker 1: for that? You want to take a break, Yeah, let's

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Speaker 1: do it, all right, Charles, we're back. So nineteen sixty

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Speaker 1: or nineteen sixty, not eight.

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Speaker 2: I've got nineteen sixty eight in front of my face, okay,

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Speaker 2: And that could be no other movie. The Night of

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Speaker 2: the Living Dead classic George Romero film. Romero was a

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Speaker 2: TV director, making TV commercials commercial director.

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Speaker 1: Rather, he was also making short films for Mister Rogers

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Speaker 1: neighborhood at the time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and he was young.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know how old he was, but he

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Speaker 1: was pretty young guy still, I get.

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Speaker 2: I think when he made Shot and That Is the

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Speaker 2: Living Dead, he was like twenty six or twenty seven.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, by any standard, that's still pretty young, unless

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Speaker 2: you're twenty three.

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Speaker 1: So he had He and his buddies were like, let's

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Speaker 1: make a horror movie, but let's not make a stupid

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Speaker 1: horror movie. Let's make one with like an actual plot

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Speaker 1: that explores like deep themes too, like a good movie.

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Speaker 1: Let's let's make the first good horror movie.

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Speaker 2: Well yeah, so, and we'll delve into that little more.

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Speaker 2: But that was definitely a different thing. At the time.

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Speaker 2: And the other different thing was that all the horror

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Speaker 2: movies up to that point they were called the Universal

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Speaker 2: monsters from Universal Studios, you know, all the kind of

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Speaker 2: the classic Frankenstein and Dracula and Creature from the Black

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Speaker 2: Lagoon and the Werewolf, and that was where that was

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Speaker 2: mainstream horror. And George Romero comes along and says, how

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Speaker 2: about zombies? And everyone said, what in the world's a zombie?

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Speaker 2: And he said, well, let me define that for every

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Speaker 2: future generation of movie and TV goers and lovers.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And there had been zombie movies before, but they

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Speaker 1: had been things like like doctor Kaligari's Cabinet, somebody who

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Speaker 1: was under the control of something someone else or something

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Speaker 1: like that, there was a hypnotist or this was like

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Speaker 1: the first time what we think of as zombies wherever

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Speaker 1: introduced like flesh eating ghouls who were dead and come

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Speaker 1: back to life. Yeah, just what you think of as

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Speaker 1: a zombie. This guy started that genre, like you said.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they shot it outside in Pittsburgh on about one

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Speaker 2: hundred and fifteen thousand dollars budget, ended up grossing twelve

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Speaker 2: million domestic not bad, and I think close to twenty worldwide,

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Speaker 2: and was eventually selected by the Library of Congress for

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Speaker 2: preservation in the National Film Registry.

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Speaker 1: It's a good movie.

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Speaker 2: It's a very good movie. They shot it in black

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Speaker 2: and white to save on cost, even though color was

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Speaker 2: the standard by that point, and black and white is

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Speaker 2: also a little more forgiving for rudimentary special effects. And

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Speaker 2: one of the revolutionary things he did was cast a

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Speaker 2: black actor as the lead, and for no other reason

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Speaker 2: than hey, this guy Dwayne Jones is really.

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Speaker 1: Good, exactly right. Like he didn't go back and go, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, our hero is black, so we need to

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Speaker 1: make the whole thing of meditation on race and have

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Speaker 1: them confront racism. It was just here's the script, and

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Speaker 1: then the guy playing the lead just happens to be black.

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Speaker 2: Right, And he was the best guy in the auditions.

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Speaker 2: And you know, in nineteen sixty eight, this didn't really happen.

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Speaker 2: You didn't just cast a black guy as a lead

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Speaker 2: actor for no with no like ulterior motive, basically right.

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Speaker 1: So I read this review from the time from nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty nine, the year after it came out, Young Roger

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Speaker 1: Ebert went and watched it and wrote a review, and

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Speaker 1: he wrote a pretty pretty interesting review, which is basically

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Speaker 1: it was about the reaction of the audience. And he

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Speaker 1: went to a Saturday matinee that was populated almost entirely

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Speaker 1: by ten eleven year olds. Oh wow, and they were

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Speaker 1: used to seeing the Creature from the Black Lagoon or

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Speaker 1: Frankenstein or you know, just movies that any kid could

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Speaker 1: handle and could enjoy watching, and you know, fun, scary

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Speaker 1: kind of stuff. Yeah, and he said, that's how that

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Speaker 1: that was how the crowd reacted for the first half

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Speaker 1: of the movie. But then about the point where and

401
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Speaker 1: here's here comes spoilers. Everybody, if you haven't seen Nither

402
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Speaker 1: of Living Dead, to hit yourself in the knee with

403
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Speaker 1: a hammer. You the the the teenage couple go to

404
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Speaker 1: get gas and when their car blows up and is

405
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Speaker 1: engulfs and flames, they die. They're burned to death. He said,

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Speaker 1: Right about that time, the tone, the mood of the

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Speaker 1: theater changed and there was no like gleeful screaming anymore.

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Speaker 1: Kids were starting to like not move and we're afraid

409
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Speaker 1: to like move in their seats, and some were quietly

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Speaker 1: crying to themselves. And from that the whole, the whole

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Speaker 1: point on, it just got worse and worse for these

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Speaker 1: little kids watching this movie.

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Speaker 2: So it was a huge impact on horror movies a it.

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Speaker 2: Like you said earlier, it was kind of the first

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Speaker 2: one to really sort of delve into other issues like

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Speaker 2: if you look up, like significance of not of the

417
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Speaker 2: Living Dead or meaning of nighted living Dead or something

418
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Speaker 2: like that. There are scores of articles that have been

419
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Speaker 2: written over the years of how it was a metaphor

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Speaker 2: for the Vietnam War, or an allegory about distrust of

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Speaker 2: authority or the collapse of traditional family. And I think

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Speaker 2: Romero said, like I didn't necessarily mean all these things,

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Speaker 2: but you can certainly find it in the movie.

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Speaker 1: That is art. Like one of the great revelations of

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Speaker 1: my adult life is that the artist, the writer, the songwriter,

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Speaker 1: the author rarely intends to imbue as much meaning into

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Speaker 1: their work as people take from it. That that's part

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Speaker 1: of art as interpretation. Isn't that neat? Like you don't

429
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Speaker 1: if you're a writer, if you're a young writer right

430
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Speaker 1: now who's just sitting there racking your brain for how

431
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Speaker 1: to insert metaphor and meaning into this, just write your

432
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Speaker 1: story and people are going to find it for themselves. Yeah, agreed,

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Speaker 1: I wish somebody had told me that.

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Speaker 3: When I was younger, I had teachers that said stuff

435
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Speaker 3: like that, Oh I didn't like good college professors in

436
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Speaker 3: English that would when students would argue like, I think

437
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Speaker 3: he means this, he would say like, you know, he

438
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 3: may or she may not have meant anything.

439
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 1: Right I had.

440
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 2: That's the revelation.

441
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 1: I had teachers that would just go wrong.

442
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,360
Speaker 2: The other thing about Night Living Dead is it spawned, obviously,

443
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 2: the zombie genre and sequels, Don of the Dead, Day

444
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 2: of the Dead, Return of the Living Dead, the Walking

445
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:38,959
Speaker 2: Dead remakes.

446
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:44,639
Speaker 1: Shout out Stephen Yune. Yeah right, why not?

447
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 2: I'm still into the Walking Dead.

448
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 1: You Yeah, we talked about this, yes, yes, okte Une listens.

449
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 2: Anyway, Zombies are I think still hot and we can

450
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 2: so hot. We owe that all to mister Romero, master

451
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 2: of the genre.

452
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 1: Yep, chuck. One more thing too that Naya Living Dead

453
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: did that they weren't the first, but very famously Romero

454
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,680
Speaker 1: did was kill off his hero senselessly and shockingly.

455
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 2: Yeah at the end, good point.

456
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 1: Thanks man. Okay, So let's move on. Like I said

457
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three, yes day after Christmas.

458
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 2: If you've ever been in Washington, d C. At the

459
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 2: end of M Street. You might have noticed very during

460
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 2: the daytime, ordinary set of stairs. At nighttime, maybe they

461
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,880
Speaker 2: look creepy to you because those are the Exorcist stairs.

462
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm trying to conjure the music in my head,

463
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 1: but all I'm coming up with is the unsolved mysteries music.

464
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: It wasn't quite right, so close, but it's not. I'm

465
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: so unsatisfied right now.

466
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 2: So The Exorcist was based on a book by William

467
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 2: Peter Bladdie who wrote this in nineteen seventy one, and

468
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 2: then in seventy three the movie was made. And there's

469
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 2: I think I referenced not too long ago a great

470
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 2: Mark Marin interview with William Friedkin where he talks about

471
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 2: the audition process for Linda Blair. So you should go

472
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 2: listen to that because it was pretty insightful. But The

473
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:23,679
Speaker 2: Exorcists really kind of changed the game in that it

474
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,439
Speaker 2: was a It spawned a bit of a subgenre of

475
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 2: demonic movies.

476
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 1: Sure I were like religious based.

477
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, even though I guess Rosemary's Baby was before that.

478
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 2: But the Exorcist was such a mega hit and it

479
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 2: was nominated for Best Picture the first horror movie to

480
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:48,159
Speaker 2: be nominated for that, so it was just like it

481
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 2: was a big deal.

482
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: It was. It sold six million tickets in about two months.

483
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:54,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's amazing.

484
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: This is a horror movie, right, and it came out

485
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 1: in nowhere. Apparently the effect they had on audiences was

486
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,959
Speaker 1: extremely pronounced. There was a woman in Boston who had

487
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: to be carried from the theater and she goes it

488
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: cost me four dollars, but I only lasted twenty minutes.

489
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,160
Speaker 1: So we're like, that's the stories of that got around

490
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 1: and people wanted to see, you know, this movie can't

491
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 1: be that scary, and they went and they were like,

492
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 1: oh my god, that movie is that scary.

493
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it holds up too. I mean, special effects

494
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 2: are they'd never quite hold up. But it's still a

495
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 2: very creepy movie. Very famously, Linda Blair played the little

496
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 2: girl who was possessed by a demon, and the the

497
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 2: heavy hitters were called in the two Exercises Demon, including

498
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 2: a Max van Seadao who was only forty four when

499
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 2: he was played. This guy in his easily in his seventies.

500
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:55,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, is he Benjamin Button?

501
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:57,360
Speaker 2: Well no, they made him up.

502
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 1: Wow, they did a great job.

503
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, which I don't see why they felt the need

504
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 2: to do that. I know they God, who else did

505
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 2: they almost cast? Oh? Brando? They almost cast Brando, but.

506
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 1: That would have been a colossal mistake.

507
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 2: Well, Friedkin said, you know what, as soon as you

508
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 2: do that, it's a Marlon Brando movie. Yeah, and I

509
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,119
Speaker 2: think he said, picture a Brando picture. Sure, that's what

510
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 2: they said. And he'd wanted to be a Brando picture.

511
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 2: He wanted to be the.

512
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 1: Exorcist, So you said. It was based on a book

513
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 1: from two years before by William Peter Bladdie. He apparently

514
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 1: was known as a comedy writer and he wanted to

515
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:35,120
Speaker 1: do something different.

516
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 2: He said, Hey, wouldn't it be funny if the little

517
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 2: girl's head spun around and she keeps green bile?

518
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: Wait? Wait'll you hear what I have he do with

519
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 1: a crucifix? So he actually wrote the book because he

520
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 1: wanted to scare America back to church. That was his

521
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 1: aim with the book.

522
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 2: It may have worked.

523
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 1: He believed that there was real evil going on in

524
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: the world and that part of it was because of

525
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 1: a loss of eight or a loss of religion, I guess,

526
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 1: And that's what he wanted to do with it. And

527
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: when the movie came out, there was a huge pushback

528
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,959
Speaker 1: from religious authorities like Billy Graham said he believed the

529
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: movie itself was possessed by a demon. I'm not sure

530
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: how that would happen, but that was like a huge

531
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 1: thing at the time, and a lot of a lot

532
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 1: of other religious establishment types were like, don't go see

533
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: that movie. It's evil. But there were some who who

534
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: were part of part of religion, major organized religion, who

535
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 1: kind of saw through it and said, no, no, this

536
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 1: is it's good that we're talking about this. That there

537
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: were telling people, you know, or people are seeing that

538
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 1: there's such a thing as like good versus evil literally

539
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: combating on earth, you know, and people are talking about

540
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 1: this and thinking about it. And so in that sense,

541
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 1: the Exorcist like really kind of went to bat for

542
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 1: organized religion.

543
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 2: Oh interesting.

544
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 1: I saw another criticism of it though, that said one

545
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 1: of the themes of the movie that the book hadn't

546
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,239
Speaker 1: really intended, but the movie picked up on and expounded on,

547
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: was intergenerational conflict. That it was Reagan the child represented

548
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 1: the younger generation who was at war with the establishment,

549
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 1: and that it even goes so far as to where

550
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: her mother the actress. The movie that she's working on

551
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 1: is about campus takeover by young radicals. Huh. So that's

552
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: kind of a theme that was apparently part of the subtext,

553
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: but was a major part of it in the movie

554
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: at least interesting. Yeah, I thought so too, because apparently,

555
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: I mean, you think of intergenerational conflict now, Apparently in

556
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 1: the late sixties and early seventies it was sharper than

557
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: it probably ever has been before or since.

558
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. The only other thing I got is that the

559
00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 2: green stuff that she projectiles was Anderson's pup and a

560
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 2: little bit of oatmeal text.

561
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: Anderson's piece of Well, bet you can't get that anymore, Chuck,

562
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 1: Let's do Jaws and then we'll take a break. I

563
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: love talking about Jaws.

564
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean Jaws is on. You know. I did

565
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 2: my top favorite movies list at one point on our website,

566
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 2: and I listed Jaws is my favorite movie favorite of

567
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 2: all time. Yeah, I mean that list changes, but it's

568
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 2: Jaws is always in my top five. I can watch

569
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 2: it anytime it's on. It is one of the I've

570
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 2: often said it's a perfect movie, and what I mean

571
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 2: by that is there's just not a misstep, like the

572
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 2: casting was perfect. The acting was great, the script was great.

573
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 2: It played out just perfectly throughout the film. He, like Spielberg,

574
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 2: was just a master storyteller with that movie.

575
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 1: You were talking about how young George Romero was in

576
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 1: Night of the Living Dead. Spielberg was twenty six when

577
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: he made Jaws.

578
00:31:58,160 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 2: He was thirteen years old.

579
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: He and he was apparently scared to death when he

580
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: finished filming. The schedule had been for fifty five days.

581
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: It went to one hundred and fifty nine. Yeah, he

582
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 1: had I think been allotted four million dollars. He ended

583
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: up spending twelve million on it.

584
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, largely because a shooting on water is notoriously difficult,

585
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 2: and b the shark mechanical shark they use was legendarily wonky,

586
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 2: and how it are not wonky but wanky wonky.

587
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 1: It didn't work.

588
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 2: It rarely worked. So they spent a lot of time

589
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 2: and burnt a lot of hours trying to get this

590
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 2: shark to do its thing, and so much so that

591
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 2: it didn't even make that many appearances in the movie.

592
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 2: I think they even kind of scaled it back, and

593
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 2: that ended up being better for the movie because you

594
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 2: didn't get as much shark.

595
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 1: I looked up the urban legend about the shark being

596
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 1: named after Spielberg's lawyer, Bruce, and apparently it's true. Really, Yeah,

597
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 1: Bruce Rayner was the name of Spielberg's lawyer, and that

598
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 1: was the nickname for the mechanical shark on the set

599
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 1: was Bruce.

600
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 2: That's pretty funny.

601
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: So with Jaws, right, we're talking about horror movies that

602
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 1: changed the genre. Jaws not only changed the horror genre,

603
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: it changed movie making to this day. Yeah, and in

604
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 1: multiple ways, multiple massive ways. It changed the entire film

605
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 1: industry almost single handedly.

606
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was at the time there was no such thing.

607
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 2: You take it for granted now, but there was no

608
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 2: such thing as a quote unquote summer release.

609
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 1: No, a lot of theaters close down because ac wasn't

610
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: in every theater, and people then want to sit around

611
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: in a hot movie theater for two hours.

612
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, a summer release or a tent pole film or

613
00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 2: a blockbuster feature like Jaws was the first one of

614
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 2: all those.

615
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 1: What at the time, when Jaws came out, they used

616
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 1: to release a movie on maybe one two screens in

617
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 1: say New York or LA for a week and then

618
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: did make its way to you know, Atlanta, Minneapolis, Chicago

619
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 1: for a few weeks, and then eventually it'd make it

620
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 1: to your small town six eight weeks later. Yeah, that

621
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,240
Speaker 1: was how movies were released, not Jaws. Jaws was released

622
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 1: on four hundred and thirty five screens across the country,

623
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: which is huge, which is part of the part of

624
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 1: the summer blockbuster release playbook now.

625
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was also the first movie to spend

626
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 2: lots and lots of money on marketing, and so I

627
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,320
Speaker 2: think the studios were like, wait a minute, you spend

628
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 2: some dough on marketing, you release this thing wide. You

629
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 2: can make a ton of money in the first month

630
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 2: that a movie's out, and you're kind of set. Like

631
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 2: after that, it's anything else's gravy. Yeah, and that's after

632
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 2: the first like week or two probably.

633
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. Yeah, the whole point of blockbuster now

634
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: is to get that opening weekend, to make all your

635
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,439
Speaker 1: money back in the opening weekend, and then everything else

636
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 1: is gravy on top of it. Right, Jaws was it

637
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: didn't make its I don't know, maybe it did make

638
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,359
Speaker 1: its money back in the first weekend, because it hit

639
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: one hundred million dollars in like seventy eight days or something.

640
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: Incredible like that because it was the first movie to

641
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: hit one hundred million dollars and it did it in

642
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 1: just a couple months. Even.

643
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, it eventually went on to make to about two

644
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 2: hundred and sixty million dollars domestically, which is I mean,

645
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 2: that's a great take now, Yeah, you know, much less

646
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 2: the mid nineteen seventies.

647
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,439
Speaker 1: Sure for a twelve million dollars spend, for sure.

648
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:44,720
Speaker 2: My only beef here is that I would not consider

649
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 2: Jaws a horror movie.

650
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:47,439
Speaker 1: Yeah.

651
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 2: I think he's an adventure film. Yeah, I guess you're right,

652
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 2: with a scary antagonist. Yeah, but it's amazing how much

653
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 2: I quote that movie in my day to day life.

654
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, just just just show that's a great that's a classic.

655
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 2: All Right, let's take a break. I'm gonna meditate on

656
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 2: that line, and we'll talk about a few other scary movies,

657
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 2: including one that was originally titled scary movie.

658
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 1: Okay, moving on to Halloween. Halloween Chuck nineteen seventy eight.

659
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 1: I believe Halloween.

660
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 2: Yes, John Carpenter, the youngish John Carpenter, who originally titled

661
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 2: this movie The Babysitter Murders. No, A little on the nose,

662
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 2: pretty terrifying title. I guess young Jamie Lee Curtis her

663
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,280
Speaker 2: very first movie, was it really? Yeah?

664
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: Well, she went on to become known as the scream

665
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 1: Queen for all the horror movies she was in.

666
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 2: Totally and this was shot in twenty days in South

667
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 2: Pasadena as the Midwest, and it's credited as being birthing

668
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 2: the slasher genre.

669
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it did, so there were slasher films before it.

670
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 1: The Town That Dreaded, Sundown, good movies like based on

671
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 1: a true crime story actually in Texas, one called Black Christmas,

672
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 1: The Grabster Sites from nineteen seventy four. I haven't heard

673
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 1: of that one. But the idea of a faceless almost

674
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 1: a like non entity entity coming at you and relentlessly

675
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 1: stalking you, being impervious to harm, as the Rabster puts it,

676
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:01,880
Speaker 1: and just coming at you again and again trying to

677
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:06,840
Speaker 1: kill you. That that was. That was all established by Halloween,

678
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 1: and it was done like to too great effect as well.

679
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it holds up. It's still scary. Michael Myers,

680
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 2: of course, was The Killer. The music that John Carpenter scored,

681
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 2: Hi mean, he scores most of his movies himself, but

682
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 2: very iconic. Basic thing I think he only took a

683
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 2: couple of days to come up with it. But like

684
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 2: the Michael Myers character and the mask are so iconic,

685
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,879
Speaker 2: the music is so iconic. You know about the mask,

686
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,800
Speaker 2: right Chatner? Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

687
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,240
Speaker 1: I went and check that one out too to verify

688
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 1: that it was true. And it definitely is true that

689
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:46,760
Speaker 1: Michael Myers mask is actually a Captain Kirk star Trek

690
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 1: mask painted white.

691
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 2: Yep.

692
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,240
Speaker 1: That is history yep.

693
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 2: In the in the script when it came to the mask,

694
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 2: it just said pale, neutral features of a man.

695
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, which makes the whole thing even creepier because he's

696
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:06,439
Speaker 1: an implacid or is that the right word.

697
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 2: I don't know.

698
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:11,320
Speaker 1: He's just almost like just an emotionless killer.

699
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:11,919
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.

700
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 1: It made the fact that he was merciless, ruthless, pitiless

701
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 1: and arbitrarily killing people almost all the more pronounced because

702
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 1: his expression never changes.

703
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 2: Well, to me, the two things that were creepiest about

704
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 2: Halloween was the expression never changed because of that mask,

705
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 2: and he did not run, like oh yeah, he would

706
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 2: just walk, and you still got the feeling like you

707
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:38,720
Speaker 2: can't outrun this guy even though he's walking.

708
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:42,319
Speaker 1: That was another creepy part about it. It follows with

709
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:43,799
Speaker 1: the walking aspect of it.

710
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:44,919
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah for sure. Yeah.

711
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, in the same way that like twenty eight Days

712
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,879
Speaker 1: Later was freaky in that it took zombies and made

713
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 1: him run.

714
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. Or I remember when I saw Friday the thirteenth

715
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 2: I'm sorry Nightmare on Elm Street for the first time,

716
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 2: and Freddy Krueger was running around, like, that's not what

717
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 2: scary dudes do.

718
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, scary dudes don't trot.

719
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:08,320
Speaker 2: Now, they walk very creepily toward you and still somehow

720
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 2: gain speed on you even though you're running full speed.

721
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 1: Well, Freddy scared me to death the first time I

722
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 1: saw that movie.

723
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:15,879
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, first one was a pretty good one, but.

724
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 1: Halloween established this, Like you said, it established the slasher genre,

725
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: and everything about slasher films still today all rooted in

726
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 1: Halloween John Carpenter's tropes.

727
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and again, like you said, there were a couple

728
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 2: of other slasher films before, but none of them grossed

729
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 2: close to fifty million bucks.

730
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 1: Wow, is that how much Halloween made?

731
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, forty seven million domestic at about a three hundred

732
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 2: thousand dollars budget, so it you know, it's sort of

733
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 2: like with the Exorcists, like there were other movies that

734
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 2: sort of did this thing before. But when you have

735
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,319
Speaker 2: a huge hit that does it is when it sort

736
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 2: of redefines the genre because it it's money. Yeah, and

737
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 2: that's all they met.

738
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 1: Everyone starts paying attention after that.

739
00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 2: All right, what's next?

740
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 1: What's next? My friend? Is a movie that came out

741
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 1: when I don't know, were you still in college? No,

742
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:07,240
Speaker 1: you must have just been out then.

743
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 2: I was out a few years.

744
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, regardless around our college era, this movie came out.

745
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 1: Because up to this point, everything's come out either when

746
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,760
Speaker 1: we were little or before we were born. This one

747
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 1: was right in our wheelhouse. It was the Blair Witch Project,

748
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 1: which came out in nineteen ninety eight.

749
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. And one of the big things that Blair Witch

750
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 2: Project did well two things. Really, it established the found

751
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 2: footage genre or subgenre that is so overplayed now in

752
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 2: the viral marketing campaign. And that's how I came upon it.

753
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:43,360
Speaker 2: I remember very specifically being in the apartment of Scott

754
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 2: at Pallito, who you know, Sure he shot our TV show,

755
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:47,799
Speaker 2: one of my oldest friends, and I was sitting in

756
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:52,359
Speaker 2: his apartment on Claremont Avenue Indicator and I happened upon

757
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 2: this and This was pre Facebook. I don't even know

758
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 2: how I found it, you know, before things were being

759
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 2: shared around, right, And it happened upon this website, the

760
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:05,399
Speaker 2: very first Blair Witch Project website, and I was like, dude,

761
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 2: come over here and check this out. This is the

762
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 2: scariest thing I've ever seen. Yeah, and I remember the

763
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 2: website set it up as if it was real, and

764
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 2: that this found footage thing, it's so overdone now it's

765
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,799
Speaker 2: hard to go back in time and remember when it

766
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 2: was fresh. But I remember looking at and being like,

767
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 2: did this happen? Did they really find this footage of

768
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 2: this murder in the woods? Like well, I got to

769
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 2: see this.

770
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 1: That was the rumor that this was actually real, man.

771
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,080
Speaker 1: And this is, like you said, I mean, this is

772
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:37,760
Speaker 1: before the found footage genre. So people were being exposed

773
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:39,879
Speaker 1: to this concept for the first time, and we're kind

774
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 1: of falling for it. I mean, first all, huge, you're

775
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 1: either in college or you're just recently out of college,

776
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 1: so you're maybe slightly more gullible than you are ten

777
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:48,320
Speaker 1: years on.

778
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 2: You're ready to believe it.

779
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,400
Speaker 1: You want to believe, right, So yeah, the idea that

780
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 1: this was actual found footage, it just made it all

781
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 1: the more enjoyable, and people were buying into it now.

782
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:01,399
Speaker 1: I think the other part of it was that the filmmakers,

783
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 1: partly because they didn't have the budget for actual effects,

784
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 1: left a lot of the scariest parts to your imagination.

785
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, Nor did they have the talent to make a

786
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 2: good narrative film.

787
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 1: I guess. I mean they worked on a sixty four

788
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 1: page script, which I was surprised that it was that

789
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 1: that big. But they shot it for eight days, and

790
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:27,280
Speaker 1: originally they were going to make it like a documentary

791
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 1: about the found footage, right, And then one of them

792
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 1: had a flash of perspective. I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait,

793
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 1: let's just release it like it's found footage. And that

794
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 1: was that. The rest was history.

795
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm poking fun. That was not very nice

796
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 2: at all. Eduardo Sanchez and Daniel Myrik or Merrick, the

797
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:50,280
Speaker 2: co directors, they they should be credited with a truly

798
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 2: ingenious campaign and invention.

799
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:56,879
Speaker 1: Well, they weren't the first to come up with found footage, right,

800
00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 1: there were some films before. I've never known how to

801
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 1: pronounce it, Mondo Kane or Mondo Caine. I think Kanye

802
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 1: It's from nineteen sixty two. And it was supposedly a

803
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 1: documentary about like some like weird tribal rituals. I think

804
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 1: there's head shrinking maybe involved, and it purported to be

805
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:22,319
Speaker 1: like real footage. Same with Cannibal Holocaust with Man. If

806
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 1: you've never seen Campbell Holocaust, go out and watch it

807
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 1: right now. It's very disturbing. And it's so disturbing that

808
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 1: the director of the movie was charged with murder because

809
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 1: they believed that the actual murders depicted they were so realistic.

810
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 1: They thought that it was a snuff film basically, but

811
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:43,840
Speaker 1: it was supposed to be a documentary as well. So

812
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:47,320
Speaker 1: there was an idea of like found footage or documentary

813
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 1: style horror movies that had come before, but nothing like

814
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 1: The Blair Witch, where it was just straight up these people.

815
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:57,880
Speaker 1: We found their old camera and this is what was

816
00:44:57,920 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 1: on it.

817
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 2: Well, and they were smart enough to to dig up

818
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:05,359
Speaker 2: an old thing that never went huge. You know. They're like, hey, man,

819
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:07,839
Speaker 2: like these other movies, they never really hit it big,

820
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 2: and they it was a timing thing. They they I mean,

821
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 2: hats off for them to them, Yeah, good for them,

822
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 2: and to them.

823
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 1: Nice going all right, chuck scream.

824
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 2: Yeah scream, I teased that it was originally titled scary movie.

825
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 1: I'm glad it wasn't because scary movie is awesome. I well,

826
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 1: it's scary movie. Ever would have been called maybe it

827
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:32,720
Speaker 1: would have never been made.

828
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:33,760
Speaker 2: Or maybe they would have called that Scream.

829
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:35,720
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I guess so.

830
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 2: So Scream was a very big deal when it came out.

831
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 2: The writer Kevin Williamson, and this is still the highest

832
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:44,879
Speaker 2: growing slasher film of all time. Basically Scream one is.

833
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 1: It was huge. I got Nev Campbell's haircut as a

834
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 1: result of it. Like it was a big, big pop

835
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 1: culture watermark.

836
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 2: It was. And one of the big things about it,

837
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:57,839
Speaker 2: aside from the boatloads of money that it made, was

838
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 2: it spawned a subgenre called horror, which is even though

839
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 2: it had been done by no less than its own

840
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 2: director of Wes Craven with Wes Craven's New Nightmare two

841
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 2: years before Scream, it wasn't nearly as popular. But meta

842
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 2: horror is this idea, and if you've ever seen Scream,

843
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 2: you know they're constantly just referencing horror movies like this

844
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 2: is where you know, you don't go out and make

845
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 2: out in the car because that's where.

846
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 1: You get killed. And then they would do that and

847
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:27,800
Speaker 1: get killed, right.

848
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 2: Although I don't think that specific thing happened.

849
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:31,400
Speaker 1: Like don't go back into the house.

850
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like all the tropes of horror movies are addressed

851
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:35,839
Speaker 2: in the movie, and.

852
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 1: They're talking about them as the horror movie tropes.

853
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, exactly, meta horror.

854
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there are plenty of other things that came

855
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 1: along meta horror examples like have you seen Tucker and

856
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:50,760
Speaker 1: Dale Versus Evil?

857
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 2: No, it's good.

858
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 1: Oh check it out man, All right, that's a good movie.

859
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 1: Zombie Land. Yeah, I did see that where he's rattling

860
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:01,800
Speaker 1: off all of the things that you need to notice

861
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 1: survive a zombie apocalypse that he learned from zombie movies. Right.

862
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 1: And then Cabin in the Woods. Did you see that? One?

863
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 2: Great movie?

864
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:10,959
Speaker 1: It was a great movie. I thought it was really good.

865
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:13,800
Speaker 1: I mean from beginning to end, it was a great movie.

866
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 2: Did you like Scream?

867
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 1: Yeah? I love Scream. I liked all the Screams.

868
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 2: I only saw the first two. The second one I

869
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 2: think might have been even better than the first to me,

870
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 2: and that the second was shot Emily worked on that

871
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:31,799
Speaker 2: it was shut here at Agnascott College party.

872
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:34,319
Speaker 1: Oh is that right? Yeah? You have to go back

873
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 1: and watch it knowing that now I'll be like, oh,

874
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:37,840
Speaker 1: I've driven past that place.

875
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 2: So I got a few tidbits. Like I said, initial

876
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 2: title was Scary Movie Number two. The Weinstein brothers initially

877
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:50,799
Speaker 2: offered it to George Romero and Sam Raimi. What else

878
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 2: do I have here? Drew Barrymore was originally supposed to

879
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 2: play Sydney, the lead character, and then she said, no,

880
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 2: how about if I just played that girl the which

881
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 2: kind of was a big thing because you see Drew

882
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 2: Barrymore and it was a big shock when she died

883
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 2: in the first scene, right, you know.

884
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 1: You can't kill off your heroin right away.

885
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like, I remember, I remember that first scene

886
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:18,359
Speaker 2: really really scaring me when I saw it the first

887
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 2: time in the theater.

888
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:23,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. It's a scary, gruesome, gory heart.

889
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, very well played. And then before he went to

890
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 2: Nev Campbell, he went out to Alicia wit, Britney Murphy

891
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:31,359
Speaker 2: and Reese Witherspoon.

892
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,319
Speaker 1: And then Campbell was your first choice.

893
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:39,279
Speaker 2: And then the mask, the iconic screen mask apparently wasn't

894
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 2: off the shelf mask.

895
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 1: Wow, that made that company's money.

896
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the Weinstein didn't like it. They were like,

897
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 2: I hate that mask. Everything else is fine, huh, But

898
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 2: Wes Craven said, no, it's got to be the mask.

899
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 1: Don't be stupid, Bob.

900
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 2: All right, we're going to finish up with our own edition.

901
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 1: Here finally, nineteen sixty.

902
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:08,520
Speaker 2: Yes, Psycho, I can't believe this wasn't in the list.

903
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:12,680
Speaker 1: I think ed kept this off the list to toy

904
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 1: with somebody he doesn't like specifically. That's the only explanation.

905
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:19,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, because Psycho changed everything.

906
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really did. I mean it was the you

907
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 1: could say that it was one of the first slasher flicks.

908
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:29,360
Speaker 1: It was an early psychological thriller.

909
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:29,839
Speaker 2: Yeah.

910
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:36,839
Speaker 1: It was based on the real life story of ed Gean. Yeah,

911
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:39,520
Speaker 1: I mean it doesn't exactly mirror ed Dean's life, but

912
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 1: the idea of being obsessed with your mother so much

913
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:47,800
Speaker 1: that you will commit murder was definitely rooted in Agen's story.

914
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:51,360
Speaker 1: If you're not familiar with ed Gean, he not only

915
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 1: he was a I don't even know if he was

916
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 1: a serial killer. I think he only I think he

917
00:49:56,840 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 1: murdered one, maybe two people. But more than anything, he

918
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:04,920
Speaker 1: was a grave robber. But he likes to dress up

919
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 1: in people's skin women's skin and pretend he was his

920
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:11,320
Speaker 1: own mother. Which, man, that's a lot of years on

921
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 1: the couchworking that one out. Yeah, or you can just

922
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:16,439
Speaker 1: die at the hands of cops one of the two.

923
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 1: And he also inspired leather Face from Texas Chainsaw.

924
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:24,879
Speaker 2: Massacre Yeah, and Buffalo Bill of course. Oh yeah, yeah,

925
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 2: Sounds of the Lambs.

926
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:28,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. One guy inspired all those guys.

927
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:32,399
Speaker 2: So I found this article Psycho colon the horror Movie

928
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:36,960
Speaker 2: that Changed the Genre by Owen Glieberman or is it

929
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:41,439
Speaker 2: Gliberman Glieber Gleiberan. I think he wrote for a legendary critic,

930
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 2: wrote for aw for years and years, and now writes

931
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:44,280
Speaker 2: for a variety.

932
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:45,279
Speaker 1: Oh he does.

933
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he put it best. He said, well, you know,

934
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:54,800
Speaker 2: the iconic shower scene, first of all, is hugely important

935
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 2: because it was Hitchcock really kind of ripped up the script,

936
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:03,240
Speaker 2: not literally, but the horror movie script when he kills

937
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:06,400
Speaker 2: off Janet Lee halfway through the movie. You just didn't

938
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 2: do that at the time.

939
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 1: No, we came out of nowhere, and we've seen that

940
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:12,759
Speaker 1: come up later on, like at the end of Night

941
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 1: of Living Dead or Drew Barrymore in Scream. Hitchcock was

942
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 1: the first one to do that.

943
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:21,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, And Glieberman puts it this way. He said he

944
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 2: was also slicing through years, decades, centuries even of audience

945
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:29,040
Speaker 2: expectation that the hero or heroine of a fictional work

946
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 2: would be shielded and protected or would at least die

947
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:34,359
Speaker 2: usually the end in a way that made some sort

948
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 2: of moral dramatic sense. And Psycho the murder made no

949
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:40,839
Speaker 2: sense at all, right, And he really kind of hits

950
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:43,240
Speaker 2: it on the head there. It was like, if you've

951
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 2: never seen Psycho or heard of it, the movie's just

952
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 2: going along about this woman who steals some money from

953
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 2: her work and she's kind of on the lamb and

954
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:52,879
Speaker 2: checks into this hotel, and you don't even know it's

955
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 2: a horror movie. You're thinking it's a movie about a

956
00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 2: lady who steals money and is trying to get away

957
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:03,360
Speaker 2: from getting caught, right, and then just out of nowhere,

958
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 2: she's hacked up in a shower and at the time,

959
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:10,360
Speaker 2: audiences and still, if you haven't seen it, it's shocking.

960
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 2: The audiences were just like they didn't know what they'd seen.

961
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:17,319
Speaker 1: Right exactly, So you're not not only is is the

962
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 1: hero no longer safe? That means maybe you're not either. Yeah,

963
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 1: so it has a It had a really huge unsettling effect.

964
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:29,520
Speaker 1: And then Owen Glieberman points out that Hitchcock was so

965
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 1: smart that he even he even made a nod to

966
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:40,560
Speaker 1: the the type of pat expected horror that the audience

967
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:43,840
Speaker 1: was used to in the house that he used for

968
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:47,240
Speaker 1: Psycho The Bates House. Yeah, there was this huge, rambling

969
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 1: Victorian mansion on a hill. There's lots of taxidermy, and

970
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 1: it was like over over decorated and just creepy. But

971
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:58,239
Speaker 1: up to that point, like that was horror. That was

972
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:00,719
Speaker 1: what a horror movie looked like and felt like. And

973
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:05,719
Speaker 1: this was kind of Hitchcock's homage to that. But at

974
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:07,799
Speaker 1: the same time he was also putting the heel of

975
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 1: his shoe on it as well.

976
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that house was, I mean almost a character

977
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 2: in itself. Like if you've ever seen the recreation of

978
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 2: it in Los Angeles, I think it's a universal.

979
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:21,080
Speaker 1: Did you see it? Oh yeah, I never did. The

980
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:25,719
Speaker 1: closest I came was, I think when different strokes went there.

981
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 2: That's as closest you got to it.

982
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

983
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:30,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, Man, if you've ever seen this thing in person

984
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:34,240
Speaker 2: likes it sends a chill up your back just seeing

985
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:37,320
Speaker 2: the thing in like a sunny Los Angeles day. Still,

986
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:41,040
Speaker 2: that's awesome. It's such an iconic house. It's like, oh, man,

987
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:44,000
Speaker 2: there it is. That's where Norman Bates lives. He's the

988
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:45,560
Speaker 2: most disturbed human of all time.

989
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 1: Right.

990
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 2: So in the movie, of course, it was the mother

991
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:53,560
Speaker 2: character who is sort of referenced throughout the movie, and

992
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:56,040
Speaker 2: it is not until the end that you realize that

993
00:53:56,120 --> 00:53:59,400
Speaker 2: there is no mother. Mother's dead, right, there's just Norman

994
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:02,839
Speaker 2: Bates and all his rage and hang ups.

995
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, So all the monster movies about giant ants and

996
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:09,680
Speaker 1: or the creature from the Black lagooner monsters, things that

997
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:12,640
Speaker 1: were an other that a normal person had to do

998
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 1: battle with, that was gone.

999
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 2: Ye.

1000
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:17,440
Speaker 1: Now the monster had been on screen the whole time,

1001
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:20,360
Speaker 1: and you had noticed it. And now what do you

1002
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 1: think about your neighbor who has seemed a little weird

1003
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:26,840
Speaker 1: from time to time before? Could he be a murderer

1004
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:30,400
Speaker 1: who thinks he is his mother? Who knows? Yeah, this

1005
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 1: is what Hitchcock did to everybody back in nineteen sixty

1006
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:35,840
Speaker 1: And you almost get like, I think Owen Gliberman points

1007
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:38,240
Speaker 1: it out. Yeah, he does. At the beginning, he basically

1008
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:44,000
Speaker 1: says like, we probably didn't see Psycho. If you're reading this,

1009
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 1: you're probably too young to have seen Psycho in nineteen

1010
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 1: sixty and we should all feel sad that we didn't

1011
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 1: because it's so changed everything. We can't do anything but

1012
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 1: take it for granted now, and everything that's come since

1013
00:54:56,080 --> 00:55:01,880
Speaker 1: then has been trying to regain that and horror that

1014
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:05,840
Speaker 1: it instilled in audiences, and thus far, no one's actually

1015
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:06,759
Speaker 1: been able to do it.

1016
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the other thing, I remember when I saw

1017
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 2: it when I was younger. I think I saw this

1018
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 2: when I was like fourteenish, and I think it had

1019
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 2: this impact on just about everyone. I don't think I

1020
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 2: took a shower for a month. I was straight up

1021
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:25,160
Speaker 2: bathtub curtain open, doors, open, windows open.

1022
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:28,200
Speaker 1: Making your mom watch she's keeping watch.

1023
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:30,279
Speaker 2: No, that would have been full circle back to Sue.

1024
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:32,719
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I guess so. Yeah, you didn't even want

1025
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:34,200
Speaker 1: to have anything to do with your mom.

1026
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:38,120
Speaker 2: No. Man, Like it changed the shower curtain industry for

1027
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 2: a while after that. Yeah, but very good movie. And

1028
00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 2: there were a couple of Hitchcock movies in the last

1029
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 2: few years, two different ones, one with Anthony Hopkins and

1030
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:54,640
Speaker 2: one with Toby Jones that were both really good, and

1031
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:57,040
Speaker 2: one was about the years that he was making Psycho.

1032
00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:58,920
Speaker 2: The other was about the years when he was making

1033
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:01,760
Speaker 2: The Birds, and they were both really really good movies,

1034
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 2: and you should check those out too. You should repeat that.

1035
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 2: We just got a rich interjection from Nol, So go

1036
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:09,759
Speaker 2: ahead and say it again, Josh, in case it didn't

1037
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:10,160
Speaker 2: come through.

1038
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:13,920
Speaker 1: So Noel just said that the director of the Black

1039
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:17,400
Speaker 1: Coat's Daughter is Anthony Perkins, who played Norman Bates in

1040
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 1: Psycho's Son. Wow. He also did another movie now that

1041
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:24,920
Speaker 1: Noel says that, thanks Nol. It's called The Pretty Little

1042
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 1: Thing that Lives in the House, which was another horror movie,

1043
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:32,000
Speaker 1: a ghost story. It sounds that was his first one,

1044
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:34,720
Speaker 1: and I think that might be on Netflix. It's great.

1045
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:36,239
Speaker 1: It's a really great movie too.

1046
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:38,279
Speaker 2: Man. This has got me fired up to see some

1047
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:39,200
Speaker 2: horror movies.

1048
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 1: It's a renaissance of horror.

1049
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:43,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's tough though, because Emily doesn't really dig it,

1050
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 2: so I have to just find alone time to do that.

1051
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:50,480
Speaker 1: Good to watch it in the bathroom. All right, Well,

1052
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:52,480
Speaker 1: if you want to know more about horror movies, go

1053
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:54,080
Speaker 1: watch horror movies.

1054
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:57,560
Speaker 2: Go forth and let us know what we missed, for

1055
00:56:57,600 --> 00:56:58,120
Speaker 2: God's sake.

1056
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:01,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you want to check out grabs list, type

1057
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:04,000
Speaker 1: in horror movies on the search bar at Houseofworks dot

1058
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:06,120
Speaker 1: com and it'll bring up this fine, fine list that

1059
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:10,279
Speaker 1: you'll disagree with. And since I said disagree, it's time

1060
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 1: for listener mail.

1061
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:15,120
Speaker 2: This from Eric, and I'm gonna call it what he

1062
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 2: called it, Schoolhouse Rock nostalgia theory. All right, I think

1063
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:21,320
Speaker 2: it's pretty right on. This just came in. Actually, there's

1064
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:24,080
Speaker 2: a hot take, hey, guys, in school House Rock. So

1065
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:26,720
Speaker 2: Josh made the statement that gen xers are most nostalgic

1066
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:29,840
Speaker 2: generation and attribute it to the success of Schoolhouse Rock.

1067
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 2: I'm going to offer my own theory. I propose that

1068
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:35,360
Speaker 2: gen x is nostalgic mostly for pop culture because of

1069
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 2: the prolifera that word of child targeted advertisements and marketing

1070
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:42,720
Speaker 2: in the seventies and eighties.

1071
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:44,240
Speaker 1: Hummy, certainly something.

1072
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:44,760
Speaker 2: We've talked about.

1073
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 1: His theories got legs.

1074
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:49,680
Speaker 2: While our little impressionable brains were developing, were being taught

1075
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:51,720
Speaker 2: by those who were steering pop culture to long for

1076
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 2: and find fulfillment in the toys and other products our

1077
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:57,720
Speaker 2: cartoons were pushing on us. Now, as adults those messages

1078
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:00,160
Speaker 2: are still deep in our psyche. We can't shake the

1079
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:02,120
Speaker 2: idea that we still really need those Star Wars action

1080
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:04,440
Speaker 2: figures to be happy, not because the toys and the

1081
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:06,960
Speaker 2: shows were so great, because we had been tricked into

1082
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 2: believing we need them. I have nothing scientific to back

1083
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 2: this up, just a hunch yet. What you mean there

1084
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 2: hasn't been a study from MIT right on Star Wars toys.

1085
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:22,480
Speaker 1: I'm kind of surprised by that as well. I thought

1086
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:24,919
Speaker 1: you were being facetious at first turn.

1087
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know which way is up at this point. Yeah,

1088
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:30,000
Speaker 2: nothing scientific to back this up, but I'd love to

1089
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:32,160
Speaker 2: hear what you all think. See if anyone out there

1090
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Speaker 2: is any respectable and informed input, do you. Eric? That

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Speaker 2: is from Eric Lewin and Eric. I think that's super valid.

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Speaker 1: Yeah I do too, Eric. I think you've really hit

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Speaker 1: upon something here.

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Speaker 2: And that's all I have to say about it.

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Speaker 1: If you have a great theory, fan theory, real life theory, whatever,

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Speaker 1: we want to hear them there, especially if it's interesting.

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Speaker 1: You can tweet to us at SYSK podcast or josh

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00:58:57,640 --> 00:59:00,280
Speaker 1: am Clark. You can post it on Facebook, okay, at

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Speaker 1: Charles W. Chuck Bryant or Stuff you Should Know. You

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Speaker 1: can send us an email The Stuff podcast at HowStuffWorks

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Speaker 1: dot com. As always joined us at our home on

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Speaker 1: the web, Stuff you Should Know dot com.

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Speaker 2: For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit

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Speaker 2: HowStuffWorks dot com