1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: Bloomberg sound off, the insiders, the influencers, the insiders. We 2 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: continue to open this economy slowly, but it's coming back. 3 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: I want to know what the theme is going to 4 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: be for Republicans. I can't imagine a more important person 5 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: in Washington right now than Senator Joe Manchin. Bloomberg sned 6 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 1: on with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio Live from Washington, 7 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 1: d C. Welcome to Monday. Financial regulators assemble in the 8 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: Oval Office to talk about financial risks facing America. We 9 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: will talk about it as we learn a bit more 10 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 1: about what was on the agenda. Straight ahead with Bloomberg 11 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: White House correspondent Josh wing Grove. Ahead of the Fed 12 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: shares testimony tomorrow, we'll also talk about that comments from Powell, 13 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:45,840 Speaker 1: and we'll hear later this hour from Brian Morgenstern, former 14 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 1: White House Deputy Press secretary, former Treasury Department official. As 15 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 1: we get a sense of what went on today in 16 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: the Beltway and look ahead to tomorrow, First though, we 17 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: check on the market, sears Doug Christening ho So the 18 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: reopening trade was in high gear today and that help 19 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: equity market recover from the slump that we had in 20 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: the Friday session, Energy financial industrial names leading the S 21 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: and P up today by one point four percent. Earlier 22 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 1: in the day, we heard from St. Louis Fedbank President 23 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: Jim Bullard, and he was saying the American economy is 24 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,479 Speaker 1: booming and it's on a path to recover more than 25 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,039 Speaker 1: it lost during the pandemic, and that shouldn't be a 26 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 1: big surprise if I were to say. Well. As a 27 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 1: result of those remarks, long term interest rates moved higher today. 28 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:27,839 Speaker 1: Ten year Treasury last quoted in New York just under 29 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: one point four nine percent. We had the Dow gaining 30 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 1: about one point eight percent, NASDAC Composite up just eight 31 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:37,119 Speaker 1: tents of one percent. A lot of weakness in Bitcoin, 32 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: uh down about ten percent in the New York session. 33 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:44,119 Speaker 1: This was after Beijing overnight ordered the Chinese payment platform 34 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: Ali Pay and a number of other domestic banks in 35 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: China not to provide services linked to trading in virtual currencies. 36 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: Right now, I'm looking at bitcoin thirty two thousand, five 37 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: hundred and thirty. I'm Doug Prisoner and that is your 38 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Flash. Thank you, Doug. I'm Joe Matthew and Washington, 39 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: and we thank you for spending part of your Monday 40 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: with us on Bloomberg Radio. Welcome to sound on. White 41 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: House Press Secretary Jen Saki says it was a routine meeting. 42 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 1: That was the pitch before they went behind closed doors. 43 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 1: It was also the President Biden's today first meeting with 44 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:20,079 Speaker 1: FED share J Powells. The heads of the financial regulatory agencies, 45 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: including Treasury, SEC and others gathered in the oval to 46 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 1: talk about some of the risks facing the financial system. 47 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 1: Your sother Press Secretary Frameness before they met. The President's 48 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: view is this is a routine meeting with financial regulators 49 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 1: to get an update on management of the economy, UH 50 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: and arrange and making credit accessible to people across the country, 51 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 1: climate change, access to capital. That was Saki again before 52 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:47,919 Speaker 1: the meeting. Were joined afterwards, now having gotten to read 53 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: out on what was discussed to some extent by Bloomberg 54 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 1: White House correspondent Josh wind Grove, Josh, what are we learning? 55 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 1: Is it as simple as that? Yeah, it's always to 56 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:58,679 Speaker 1: some extent, isn't It would be three outs, a little 57 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: bit of reading between the lines. You know, they're really 58 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: trying to downplay sort of any particular reason for what 59 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 1: the redoubt tells us is they discussed how to build 60 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: on the turnaround. They talked about, you know, how to 61 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 1: strengthen the system. They said, they talked about access to credit, 62 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,959 Speaker 1: including for potential homeowners, which is a bit of a 63 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 1: slight turn of the screw beyond what Jensaki had said 64 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: climate risk, that sort of thing. One thing we asked 65 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:24,359 Speaker 1: about in the briefing is whether they would discuss other 66 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: subjects like cryptocurrency. She said that she didn't know if 67 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: that was on the agenda, but they didn't expect it. 68 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,119 Speaker 1: I mean broadly, they really tried to, you know, pour 69 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: water on any significance of this. And even when we asked, hey, 70 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: what does Joe Biden think about j Powell, she kind 71 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: of punted on that one too. We can we can 72 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: get a much of an answer on that one. So 73 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: right now, they did not speak. I'm I'm calling from 74 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: the tiny, extremely modest Bloomberg booth in the White House, 75 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: and we've been I've been here all day and I 76 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: haven't caught a peep of Powell, of yelling, of Gensler, 77 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: of any of these folks who were in this meeting. 78 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: They kept them under lock and keep yeah, no steak 79 00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: out in the driveway. I don't know if that was expected, 80 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: but have been nice to hear a little bit more. 81 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: Considering the backdrop for this meeting, We're in the throes 82 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 1: of this debate over infrastructure, the markets are wavering on 83 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: worries about inflation. We've got an economic recovery that may 84 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: or may not be going in the direction that the 85 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: White House wants it to go. But so was was 86 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: this getting to know you kind of meeting or do 87 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: we assume all of this was discussed. I mean, I 88 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 1: think there was a factor on that. It came the 89 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 1: one a day when the Dwite Heather begun sort of 90 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: invoking the fed UH in defending its economic plan, and 91 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: it's pushed for that new infrastructure package, which, as you know, 92 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 1: is sort of twisting around the play pull in Congress 93 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:38,799 Speaker 1: one way or another. I think, like in particular, Jared Bernstein, 94 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: when of Biden's economic advisors, really downplayed those inflation risks. 95 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: This morning, he was on CNBC saying, look, run away 96 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: inflation is a case where inflation is you know, high, 97 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 1: and then higher the next year and higher the next year. 98 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: He thinks that they're expecting, of course higher inflation one, 99 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 1: but falling back down in sort of saying the said 100 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: is sort of of the same view with their recent comments. 101 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 1: You know, we obviously have been asking for quite some time, 102 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: you know, when it's Joe Biden going to speak to 103 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:06,919 Speaker 1: Jay b Allen. Of course, this is one of these 104 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:11,600 Speaker 1: situations where yelling her appointment is surgery Secretary kind of 105 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: bets Biden a little bit of covered fire because in 106 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: the past they've said he doesn't need to speak to Powell. 107 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: He's got yelling. It's kind of you know, the wink 108 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 1: wink there being like she's almost a two for one, 109 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 1: right form of share Secretary. Well, with that said, now 110 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: that we have a look at the testimony for tomorrow, 111 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: does this look market moving to you? Is there anything 112 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 1: at odds with what's been said in terms of the 113 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 1: direction of inflation and interest rates from the Fed by 114 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: way of that podium in the White House briefing room. 115 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: They're not the same agency, but they need to kind 116 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: of speak the same language. Well, I mean, I I 117 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: definitely don't make a habit of trying to predict what 118 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 1: will be market moving or not. But I do think 119 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: that the White Os have seen the steady drumbeat of 120 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 1: stuff that they think is supporting their case that this 121 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,840 Speaker 1: isn't a runaway training and inflation, for instance, that the 122 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 1: recoveries is gaining steam and not sort of petering out, 123 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: leveling off in a way that they're worried about. They're 124 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 1: seeing some of the transitory effects work themselves through. For instance, 125 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: they hinted that they would do something about lumber bottlenecks, 126 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: but we've seen, you know, the crunch on lumber has 127 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: eased off quite a bit, and now you don't hear 128 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: boo from from the White House about it. So I 129 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: think I think, broadly speaking, the White House is in 130 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: a place where they think that their plan is working, 131 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: and they're trying to sort of rally this all together, 132 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: wrap it up and use it as an argument for 133 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 1: those infrastructure talks. Remember, we are really up in the 134 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,719 Speaker 1: air on those right now. We they're threatening reconciliation. It's 135 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 1: not that the votes are there for that, certainly not. 136 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,919 Speaker 1: It's ex trillion dollars, it seems, and they're pumping the 137 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: brakes throughout the day on this bipartisan thing senators have 138 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 1: signed on to. Doesn't really seem to be quite over 139 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:47,720 Speaker 1: the line for Joe Biden. So we'll see where that goes. 140 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: They want something in, you know, sooner than a few 141 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: weeks is how Saki phrased it today. Now that briefing 142 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:55,039 Speaker 1: was quite a winding road today a blue bock White 143 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: House corresponded, Josh, when grows back with us to make 144 00:06:57,480 --> 00:06:59,719 Speaker 1: sense of it all, we thank you, Josh. Maybe see 145 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: there at the White House soon. Let's bring in Bryant 146 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: Morgan Stern, General council at Wentworth Management Service, former White 147 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: House Deputy Press Secretary in the Trump administration of former 148 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: Treasury Department official Brian It's great to have you. We're 149 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 1: talking a lot of a lot of moving parts here 150 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: with regard to this meeting, with regard to interest rates 151 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:23,119 Speaker 1: and the recovery. J Powell talking about the Central banks 152 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: two percent target once supply and balance is resolve. Do 153 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: you believe that the inflation we're seeing is in fact 154 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: temporary transitory as the Fed says, well, we certainly hope 155 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: that that's the case for the American people. But I 156 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: have to say that the economy pre COVID was extremely strong. 157 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: With the Trump administration's policies of tax cuts, the regulation, 158 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: improved trade deals, and the unemployment of situation, of course, 159 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: was historically good uh, and so the fundamentals were there. 160 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: Now that the operation warp speed vaccines are out in 161 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: the market and the economies across the country are opening, 162 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: we're seeing that strang come back into play, which means 163 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: that we don't need trillions and trillions of dollars to 164 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: continue being pumped into the economy. We don't necessarily need 165 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: free money uh and zero interest rates forever. We can 166 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: start to return to a state of normalcy if we 167 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: don't do that, if we have all this extra cash 168 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 1: being printed, if we have unnecessarily low rates for an 169 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: extended period of time, that fear, really, you know, does 170 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: kind of come into play. And that's why you've seen 171 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: the eye word inflation talked about so frequently in recent weeks. 172 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: That the hope is that it is temporary, that it 173 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 1: will go away. But certainly with the policy choices the 174 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:40,959 Speaker 1: Biden administration is making, h if it goes away, that 175 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 1: would be in spite of them, not because of them. 176 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 1: They are certainly taking some risks here with just putting 177 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,199 Speaker 1: too much unnecessary, you know, money into the market. They're 178 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 1: calling relief that really isn't needed at this point anymore. 179 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: Just sound financial policies, relying on the fundamentals, getting the 180 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 1: economy open, getting kids back in school, and pair back 181 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: to work. That's really what's going to get things on 182 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: a stronger path. To read out from the White House 183 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: on the meeting today with financial UH agency leaders of 184 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 1: financial regulator regulatory agencies, they have further indicated it says 185 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: that financial risks are being mitigated by robust capital and 186 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: liquidity levels in the banking system and healthy household balance 187 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:25,079 Speaker 1: sheets stemming from fiscal support and the ongoing economic recovery. 188 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: Getting back to my question, though, how much of that 189 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 1: is transitory? If you pull back, for instance, I don't 190 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: know what you're referring to completely of the stimulus or 191 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: or the move UH to get more money for infrastructure, 192 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: But if you pull that back, is what you're saying, 193 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:42,680 Speaker 1: inflation will come back as well. No, I'm saying that 194 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: they are UH that the value of a dollar can 195 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: be manipulated if there's too much money being put out 196 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: into the market. Look when when COVID UH, when we 197 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 1: had tremendous uncertainty because of COVID, that was when it 198 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:00,319 Speaker 1: was necessary to give people. For example, in cre East 199 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: unemployment benefits. It was necessary to do the checks in 200 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: the mail, those economic impact payments. It was necessary to 201 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 1: to do certain measures like that to provide to people 202 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:14,719 Speaker 1: with temporary liquidity to get through the uncertainty. The uncertainty 203 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:18,959 Speaker 1: isn't there anymore now that the economies are opening, as 204 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: the vaccines are available, Now that we understand much better today, uh, 205 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: what what we're dealing with than we did a year ago. 206 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: And so the fact that we're still uh in places 207 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: paying people more to stay home that they would earn 208 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: at work. The fact that we are still looking at 209 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 1: putting a tremendous amount of public fisk resources into the 210 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,079 Speaker 1: economy when the private sector can be strong. So should 211 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: the Fed pullback on bond purchase I'm just trying to 212 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: get a sense of what should change at this point 213 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: from your perspective. So the Fed could be uh, I 214 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: guess a little less dubish. They could signal I think 215 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: they've started to signal that they're thinking about increasing rates 216 00:10:55,120 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 1: a little bit potentially right that they could potentially is 217 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: up on the bond purchases. But really, you know, treating 218 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: the economy as though it is strong, it is in 219 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,679 Speaker 1: a state of recovery, we have a brighter future, so 220 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: that the feds UH, these these measures taken by the 221 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:16,599 Speaker 1: FED are less necessary, and they will become less necessary 222 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: in the weeks and months to come. I think that 223 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 1: would be a signal that's really strong that the private 224 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: sector is going to be able to stand on its 225 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: own two feet and then it doesn't need so much assistance. 226 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: We're talking with Brian Morkinster in general counsel, Wentworth Management Service, 227 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: former White House Deputy Press secretary, and former Treasury Department official. 228 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 1: It's a long business card here, Brian, and I know 229 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 1: you can speak to a lot of these issues. When 230 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: we prepare to hear from j Powell tomorrow, do you 231 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,319 Speaker 1: want to hear then, in our remaining moment plans to 232 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 1: start tightening once again, to start tapering and tightening. I 233 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: I think what we need to see from Chairman Powell 234 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: is throughout the pandemic, he's been a little bit of 235 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: a pessimist. I think he's been a little bit it 236 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: too harsh. He's been a little bit too much relying 237 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 1: on his own powers uh in uh in his ability 238 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 1: to keep the economy strong. I think he needs to 239 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: acknowledge that It's time for the FED to step back 240 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 1: a little bit. It's time for them to recognize how 241 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 1: strong our economy is and that the measures he has 242 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:24,319 Speaker 1: taken are much less necessary today than they are that 243 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: then they will be into into the future. I think 244 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: that's sort of a message. The Fed is going to 245 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:32,559 Speaker 1: start to pull back. Obviously, they can make changes as 246 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 1: they see new data on a sure basis, they always do, 247 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: but it's time for the economy to stand on its 248 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:44,319 Speaker 1: bone two feet. This is Bloomberg Sound On on Bloomberg Radio. 249 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 1: It was one of the most read stories today on 250 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,679 Speaker 1: the terminal. The Supreme Court ruling against the n c 251 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: double A in what was an anti trust case, will 252 00:12:56,400 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: now allow member schools to provide more benefits to student 253 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: players as opposed to a whole bunch of outright cash. 254 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: And we're joined to talk about it by Eric Mitchell, 255 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 1: the founder and CEO of Life Flip Media, a sports 256 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 1: agent who also play a little basketball himself at Sacramento State. 257 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 1: Welcome Eric to sound on. Hey, thanks Joe, thanks for 258 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:21,239 Speaker 1: having me. To be clear, this ruling lifts some compensation 259 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 1: limits for student players, but it does not mean they're 260 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 1: about to score multimillion dollar contracts here, right, what does 261 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: it give them? It gives the athletes finally some freedom 262 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 1: and some compensation for their likeness being used. You know, 263 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 1: this all stems one of the players involved, as a 264 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:42,319 Speaker 1: former West Virginia football player whose image was using. He 265 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: should get some compensation for that. But the n C 266 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: double a which we've all known for years and is 267 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: actually called out by a couple of justices, they don't 268 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: seem to follow those rules and understand that these student athletes, 269 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: they're not all going to go on to the pros, 270 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 1: and if you're going to use their likeness, they should 271 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 1: be compensated for it. I mean, you're right, it's not 272 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: going to lead to millions of dollars or even thousands 273 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:06,559 Speaker 1: of dollars, but at least these athletes will be taken 274 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,200 Speaker 1: care of when their likeness is being used. I think 275 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 1: it's really going to affect our women's sports more than 276 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 1: our men's sports. SETH Waxman is an attorney for the 277 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:18,719 Speaker 1: n C double As to go back to the beginning here, 278 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: this is part of his argument before the Supreme Court, 279 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: just to give us a sense of how the other 280 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: side is arguing this. For more than a hundred years, 281 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: the distinct character of college sports has been that it's 282 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: played by students who are amateurs, which is to say 283 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 1: that they are not paid for their play. Maintaining that 284 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 1: distinct character is both pro competitive because it differentiates then 285 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: double as product from professional sports and can be achieved 286 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: only through agreement. Eric, there's a lot of money on 287 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: the line here. Would this in fact make the league 288 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:58,119 Speaker 1: less competitive? I don't think it would make it less competitive. 289 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 1: I think it would make how do I play this? 290 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: In time? It will make the Board of Directors of 291 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: college basketball, or not college basketball, but college period. In 292 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: C Double A have to like share some of the 293 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: money because you've gotta keep in mind the head of 294 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 1: the n C Double A is making a pretty penny. 295 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: And if you look down the breakdown, it's all going back. 296 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I know that the decision isn't affecting the 297 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: likeness quite yet, but if you look at it from say, 298 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: we go back to March Madness and we saw the 299 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: disparity between men's basketball women's basketball. When you break that down, 300 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 1: just think of the money. Just we'll just pick on 301 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: this sport, just on on basketball alone. College college sports 302 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: alone spends over the money goes to men's sport while 303 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: to women's sports. Where's the rest of that money going? 304 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: And why is it being the soul held out on 305 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: one or the other that this all comes down? And 306 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 1: I think Justice Kabin I'll put it best when he 307 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: was talking about the anti trust and how college you know, 308 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: n C double A has just danced around this four 309 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: years and now they're being called out by their athletes. 310 00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: And yes, in the fifties and sixties, you're right, athletes 311 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: could survive off of you know there scholarships. But now 312 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: it's different. They're being used by all these big brands 313 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: and these commercials. Their likenesses are on side of arenas 314 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 1: and stadiums. You're seeing it all over. You go by 315 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: a big college, You're seeing athletes everywhere being used. These 316 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: these athletes deserve to be paid this you're going to 317 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: use their likeness, you gotta pay. It's not part of 318 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: just showing up the college. Hey use my photo, but 319 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: you gotta pay these folks to do this. They're working 320 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: really really hard. I mean, and how does how do 321 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: they go trial for the basketball team US Team USA 322 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: and they're playing with the likes of the great Dame 323 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: Lillard or Kevin Durant, and they're not getting paid like 324 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: either one of those. They should earn a little bit 325 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: of dollars for doing that. And I think this is 326 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: where the Supreme Court sees eyes eyes with these student athletes. 327 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: Sure have you been exposed to some of the under 328 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 1: the table money that we hear stories about eric him 329 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: where schools, through boosters or other venues are getting money 330 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: or cars or any other kinds of perks to to 331 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: student athletes before they have a chance to sign any 332 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: kind of big contracts here. It makes people wonder where 333 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: it's coming from. I personally have not. I was lucky 334 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: to get the scholarship that I even received, But I 335 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: am at what we do currently and what I am 336 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:20,400 Speaker 1: you know, working with athletes currently. I have heard all 337 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 1: of the stories I work with athletes that have had 338 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:27,360 Speaker 1: dealt with this where people showed up to almost encouraged 339 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: them to go to their university. You know, Mom's right, 340 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 1: all of a suddenly approved for a new lease on 341 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:35,639 Speaker 1: a car. It's just these stories. I hear them all 342 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 1: the time from folks that have you know, one championships. 343 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: They're sitting here telling me what they were almost you know, 344 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 1: they turned it down. But at the same time, what 345 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: they were offered people showing up at cars, Oh, we'll 346 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: take your whole family to Camcode. I mean, these are crazy. 347 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 1: Just go to Disney and I well, how do you 348 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: explain it? I remember one of my athletes told me, 349 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:57,880 Speaker 1: my mom goes, well, how am I supposed to explain? 350 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:00,160 Speaker 1: I'm working three jobs and all of a sudden we're 351 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,919 Speaker 1: staying at the finest hotel at Disney World, all of 352 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,400 Speaker 1: my kids are here. How are we supposed to explain 353 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 1: this to the taxman? And all my friends are gonna 354 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: see us here. Well, so, Eric, does that end? Now? 355 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: Does that kind of behavior change the laughing question? I 356 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 1: don't think. I don't think it'll end. I mean, if 357 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: you look at the competitive nature of college football self, 358 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:26,199 Speaker 1: I don't think it land. I think it still goes on, 359 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 1: and it will go on to get the best athlete. 360 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 1: I mean, nevertheless who's getting paid. But I still think 361 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 1: that there's gonna be out there. Boosters are gonna want 362 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: these top especially now we're gonna have college football back 363 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 1: in its prime, is back in with a full with 364 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 1: a full season, and everybody on their top twenty five 365 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 1: will have real top twenty teams. You're gonna see those 366 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: top teams want to win. That means they're gonna go 367 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 1: do what they need to do. I don't agree with it, 368 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: and I know you don't agree with it, but it's happened. 369 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:57,400 Speaker 1: And welcome to Bloomberg Sound On. I'm Joe Matthew in Washington. 370 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 1: As we continue the conversation about again one of our 371 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:02,639 Speaker 1: most read stories of the day on the terminal, and 372 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: that is the Supreme Court ruling against the n c 373 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 1: a A in athlete compensation case. We turned to the 374 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 1: panel on this. It did come up in the White 375 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 1: House briefing today, jen Saki, the Press Secretary, saying quote, 376 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 1: hard work should not be exploited unquote, And we talked 377 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: about it with Bloomberg Politics contributor Jennie she and Zano, 378 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 1: and we also welcome Bill McGinley, principle at the Vogel Group, 379 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 1: former White House Cabinet Secretary and the Trump administration former 380 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 1: General Counsel of the r n C. It's great to 381 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:36,160 Speaker 1: have both of you. Genie, hard work should not be exploited. 382 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 1: The Press Secretary didn't have much more to say on 383 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:40,919 Speaker 1: this is the is the West wing trying to get 384 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,119 Speaker 1: a message together on this ruling. Yeah, you know, I 385 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: think it was a it was a unanimous decision. I 386 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: think it's widely supported. I think the Supreme Court obviously 387 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 1: made the right call here, and their language was very 388 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,719 Speaker 1: sharp in many cases and very clear. Um. You know, 389 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:00,919 Speaker 1: my concern here as far as a White House is 390 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: concerned to use that word twice, is that this impacts 391 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: It's a right, that's the right decision, but the number 392 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 1: of athletes actually impacted by it is incredibly low. If 393 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,120 Speaker 1: you want to talk about things that impact students going 394 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: to college, let's look at the student loan debt, which 395 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: is absolutely staggering. That is what the White House and 396 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 1: Congress should be focused on. Yes, these student athletes should 397 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:30,399 Speaker 1: not their likeness used without compensation, But we have collectively 398 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: in one point six trillion dollars young and older people 399 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,879 Speaker 1: are carrying in student loan debt. That to me is 400 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: a crisis that impacts so many students that we all 401 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:43,359 Speaker 1: know on a day to day basis. That's what the 402 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: White House should be focused on. Of course, we know 403 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,400 Speaker 1: Joe Biden would rather see them go to community college free, 404 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:52,680 Speaker 1: of course, as opposed to forgiving loans. Bill I wonder 405 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,640 Speaker 1: how you feel about this. Having had Justice Gorsage Neil 406 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: Gorst's right that this order leaves the n C Double 407 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:03,160 Speaker 1: A with considerable leeway to define exactly what has included 408 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:09,119 Speaker 1: in education related compensation. Does that mean nothing changes? Look, 409 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:10,679 Speaker 1: I mean I think, first of all, let me say, 410 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: there's gonna be bipartisan agreement. The Court reached the right decision, 411 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 1: and it did it with the unanimous decision. Does the 412 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 1: n C Double A now have some wiggle room to 413 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: to play with this decision? A little bit? Yes, But 414 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: I agree with the tone and tenor of the decision 415 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:26,399 Speaker 1: that the Court is going to keep them on a 416 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 1: short leash, and that a lot of these planets who 417 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 1: originally filed and others who may be able to join 418 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 1: in the future case are probably going to have a 419 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 1: pretty friendly forum at the Supreme Court. At the n 420 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: C Double A tries to mess around with this too much. Um. 421 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: I agree this decision UH impacts a limited number of 422 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 1: student athletes. Um. The n C Double A is something 423 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: that we should all be talking about that's in need 424 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: of reform. I think that there are a number of issues, UM, 425 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,640 Speaker 1: that the n C Double A has not been getting right. 426 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:58,879 Speaker 1: And a lot of these schools, a lot of these coaches, 427 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: and a lot of other people are making a lot 428 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:04,120 Speaker 1: of money um off of the efforts of these student athletes, 429 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: and I think it's time that we begin to start 430 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 1: talking about how we bring a little bit more fairness 431 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 1: to that system. Well, that's something that's a conversation that's 432 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: going to go on. I suspect, Jennie, I'm surprised actually 433 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: that the White House Stephen took the question. I mean, 434 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: why why even get involved in this instead of deflect 435 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: to a topic like you're talking about. Well, that's right, 436 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: and you know, they should just take me on there, Joe, 437 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: and I'll deflect for them. No, but I agree with you, 438 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: and I think Saki did try to, you know, move 439 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 1: on from it fairly quickly. But but I do agree 440 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: that I think there's a lot more reform that needs 441 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: to take place in the n C double A. This 442 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 1: has been a long time challenge and your previous guest 443 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:41,439 Speaker 1: is right, the differences between female and male athletes another 444 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: huge challenge that has to be addressed. So what did 445 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,400 Speaker 1: jen Saki move on to. Of course, it was really 446 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 1: infrastructure in and out. There was a lot of conversation 447 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 1: about this financial regulatory meeting in the Oval Office today 448 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 1: which generated a very bland read out, and it's difficult 449 00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: to tell, having discussed this earlier this hour with House 450 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,199 Speaker 1: Correspondent Josh wyn Grow, very difficult to tell what was 451 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 1: accomplished there. I'm guessing infrastructure came up. Uh here uh, 452 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 1: and it's something that did come up repeatedly during the briefing. Bill, 453 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,160 Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you about this. Let's first listen 454 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: to Press Secretary Jensaki, who is clearly looking at the clock. 455 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 1: He does not feel the time is unlimited, and he 456 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 1: would like it is not weeks in his view in 457 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: terms of moving forward and seeing if there's an a 458 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:30,400 Speaker 1: bipartisan path forward. All right, Bill, we're looking at days then, 459 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 1: not weeks. This is a critical week for infrastructure to 460 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 1: debate on Capitol Hill, and we're told by Sak that 461 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: President Biden will have senators in the Oval Office that 462 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,400 Speaker 1: they will meet this week. Are we going to get 463 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 1: a deal? Yeah? Well, look, I think I think there's 464 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: a possibility of a deal. But the Republicans are forcing 465 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:53,120 Speaker 1: the conversation back onto Harvard Infrastructure UM and away from 466 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: some of the more social infrastructure proposals that were included 467 00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 1: in the Biden original language. But also one of the 468 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,639 Speaker 1: things we need to understand is that the federal fiscal 469 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:04,399 Speaker 1: year is going to be ending here pretty soon. And 470 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 1: the Senate Parliamentarian came out and said, in terms of reconciliation, 471 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: which is that urcane Senate process that allows the Democrats 472 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:16,479 Speaker 1: to pass a package with no Republicans with Vice President 473 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 1: Kamala Harris at the tie breaking vote um, that they 474 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 1: only get two bites at the apple and they already 475 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 1: used it once. Um. So time is of the essence 476 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:27,160 Speaker 1: for the for the Biden White House. I don't think 477 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: the Republicans are going to go for any infrastructure package 478 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,880 Speaker 1: that raises taxes, and how do you pay for all 479 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: of these projects is going to be the sticking point. 480 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 1: This bipartisan proposal that's been put out seemed to move 481 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,919 Speaker 1: in the right direction for some Republicans, but the Democratic 482 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: Caucus is still divided on this. The Moderates are are 483 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 1: feeling more towards the Republican package or the bipartisan package 484 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,159 Speaker 1: that was put out, But we've seen Senator Sanders and 485 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,360 Speaker 1: others on the Progressive link Um put out their own 486 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 1: proposals that are far more ambitious and are going to 487 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: be a nonstarter with that bipartisan group in the Sunday 488 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,360 Speaker 1: Shows was like a ping pong match. Genie does does 489 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 1: this president really believe that he'll have enough Republicans to 490 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 1: make this happen? Are we going through the motions to 491 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 1: a certain extent. I think he is going through the motions. 492 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,119 Speaker 1: I think he would like to get a deal. I 493 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: don't think I am as confident as Bill sounds that 494 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 1: that they're going to get to a bipartisan agreement on this. 495 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 1: You know, Joe Biden, in my mind, has a real 496 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: challenge here. He told the world America is back and 497 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: it can work for the people, and he came back 498 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 1: home to an enormous domestic agenda as if he is 499 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 1: FDR without the numbers he needs in Congress to push 500 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: it through. Infrastructures at the top of that list, as 501 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,199 Speaker 1: we've been talking about. And yet you're listening, as you 502 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 1: said to Bernie Sanders over the weekend, they're talking about 503 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: a six trillion dollar, trillion dollar bill that's enormous. Hard 504 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,120 Speaker 1: to imagine that gets through. That's a lot to reconcile. 505 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,160 Speaker 1: A Genie for sure. As we turn to the headline 506 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: on Bloombird, now Biden sees flaws in latest infrastructure proposal. 507 00:25:57,640 --> 00:25:59,640 Speaker 1: We'll take a look at what those flaws are. I'll 508 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,160 Speaker 1: give a sneak peek how to pay for it. It's 509 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,200 Speaker 1: coming up next with the panel on sound On. I'm 510 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg sound On 511 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. Thanks for being with us on Bloomberg Radio. 512 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: I'm Joe Matthew in Washington. We've heard a lot about 513 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: a bipartisan deal on infrastructure in the Senate. Talked about 514 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,160 Speaker 1: it every day throughout the last week, waiting for something 515 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,879 Speaker 1: to happen. One point two trillion dollars. The president we 516 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,159 Speaker 1: here today sees flaws. And that's where we pick up 517 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,640 Speaker 1: with Bloomberg Politics contributor Genie she and Zano and Bill 518 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: mcginley's with us today, principal at the Vocal Group, former 519 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 1: White House Cabinet secretary in the Trump administration, former General 520 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 1: Council at the r n C. We heard today from 521 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: the National Economic Council Director Brian Deese told CNN we 522 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: got sticking its, particularly around how we pay for this. 523 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 1: That was echoed in the White House briefing when Jen 524 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:10,119 Speaker 1: Psaki was asked about where's the president on this whole plan? Well, 525 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 1: how are we going to pay for it? The President 526 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: has proposed a range of ways to pay for this package, 527 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 1: including ways that would not violate the red lines the 528 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,399 Speaker 1: Republicans have put forward. One of them is ensuring the 529 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: highest wealthiest individuals in this country pay what they're supposed 530 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,920 Speaker 1: to pay as it relates to taxes, additional tax enforcement, 531 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 1: which would raise a great deal more by multiples of 532 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: what the gas tax would raise. Bill McGinley I suspect 533 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 1: we'd have something close to a deal right now if 534 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: it weren't for the actual payment how to pay for 535 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 1: this in the White House calling it a red line, 536 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 1: is clearly not prepared to move. How does this deal 537 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,959 Speaker 1: go anywhere if there's no compromise on that part of 538 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 1: the bill, And that's the stumbling box the convert The 539 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: Republicans have come forward and said we need to We 540 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 1: can repurpose some of the funds that have already been 541 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: appropriated under the multi trillions of dollars that have already 542 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,199 Speaker 1: been appropriated by Congress to take care of some of 543 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: this hard infrastructure I think it's around five billion dollars 544 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 1: UM plus some other and private investments and other investments 545 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: to pay for the bipartisan package. Their Democrats, on the 546 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,399 Speaker 1: other hand, want to use the infrastructure package as a 547 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,680 Speaker 1: way to increase taxes on who they perceived to be 548 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:22,399 Speaker 1: the rich, which will be the people earning more than 549 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 1: four thousand dollars a year, plus raising the corporate rates 550 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 1: and others, and so that is going to be the 551 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,640 Speaker 1: sticking point, and right now the parties still seem very 552 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: far apart um. That is probably going to be the 553 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,680 Speaker 1: issue that if we don't get an infrastructure package through, 554 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 1: um is going to do it, doom it. The White 555 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: House is not budging, but I don't see any of 556 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 1: the Republicans up on the hill budging as well on this, 557 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: because at a time when we're coming out of the pandemic, 558 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: the last thing we want to do is tax ourselves 559 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 1: and try and deflate some of the economic recovery that 560 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: we're seeing right now. Interesting genie to hear from Jensaki today. 561 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,959 Speaker 1: She made the point that if we simply collected the 562 00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 1: money that was being taxed, at least on paper from 563 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: America's wealthiest individuals, the millionaires and billionaires, not add new taxes, 564 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 1: but enforce the tax laws on the book that would 565 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: generate more money than a gas tax. That's right. I 566 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: have to a certain extent listening to her today, I 567 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: felt like we were listening to some of the Democratic 568 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 1: primary debates, because those were some of the points that 569 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,959 Speaker 1: you would hear during those kind of debates. And you know, 570 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: the point of the pay for this has always been 571 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 1: the sticking point, or not always, but since in the 572 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,239 Speaker 1: modern era we've tried to get an infrastructure built. This 573 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 1: is the same thing that happened and doomed the bill 574 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: during the Trump administration was how do you pay for it? 575 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 1: You know, we've talked a lot about the size of 576 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: the you know, the size and scope of the bill, 577 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 1: but the pay for is always the sticking point. And 578 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 1: at this point to hear Jensaki say it's a non starter, 579 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: and to hear Mitch McConnell say user fees are the 580 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: way to go, well, there's no sort of melding those 581 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: two to get enough money to reach even the lowest 582 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: number that some of these pay fors and bills are 583 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 1: talking about. Look, nothing says we get a bill right. 584 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: People are walking around assuming that something's going to happen here, 585 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 1: and it might be around a trillion dollars, and there 586 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: might be two or three packages for that matter. Bill, 587 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 1: But who says we end up with legislation and a 588 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:20,720 Speaker 1: deal now or in September. Yeah, I think it's I 589 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: think that the parties are so far apart and the other. 590 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 1: The other point I would say is that whenever you 591 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 1: hear a Democratic White House say we're going to muscle 592 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: up the i R s to collect more taxes, every 593 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: conservative out there starts thinking about when the i R 594 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: S went after conservative nonprofit organizations and some of the 595 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 1: scandals that we've had in the past on that. So 596 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 1: there's a lot of political baggage that comes with trying 597 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 1: to muscle up the i R s to collect more 598 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 1: taxes because Republicans are just inherently going to think that 599 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 1: there's going to be disparate treatment. I think that the 600 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 1: parties are very far apart. The pay fors are going 601 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: to be the sticking point, and this is something that 602 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 1: I think we may not get through legislation. One point 603 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: worth making, Joe is, you know the Department of Transportation 604 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: already hands out a lot of grants to state and 605 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: local governments UM to do road repairs and other things UM. 606 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 1: And so there is money going out the door for 607 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: infrastructure right now. It's just the large scale projects that 608 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 1: we all know we need to repair the bridges, roads, 609 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 1: water infrastructure, world or our bound etcetera, UM, that we 610 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: really need to start tackling now because it's going to 611 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,480 Speaker 1: be a multi year project. We're joined on Bloomberg sound 612 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 1: On by Genie she and Zano and Bill McGinley making 613 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 1: up our political panel today. I can't have this conversation 614 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 1: about infrastructure or any level of spending like that, or 615 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 1: capital spending on our own improvements without talking about the 616 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 1: state of the economy. And we still have big question 617 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:42,959 Speaker 1: marks as we prepare to hear from the fedshare tomorrow, 618 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 1: big question marks about growth, about what level of growth 619 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 1: will see going through the rest of this year and 620 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 1: what that will mean for interest rates, because all this 621 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: is going to have an impact on how much money 622 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 1: we have left over. We got a little bit of 623 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 1: an advance on what we're gonna hear from J. Powell's 624 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,600 Speaker 1: as inflation picked up, it should move back towards the 625 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 1: banks two percent target once supply and balance is resolved. 626 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 1: It's gonna be talking about that. Uh. In testimony before 627 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 1: the House Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus crisis tomorrow. We 628 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: heard as well today from Steve Manutian. He spoke exclusively 629 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: with David Weston on balance of power and made very 630 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 1: clear that he sees things heating up even more than 631 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: the Fed might suggest right now. The FED models, the 632 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 1: Treasury models, economic models really are not very good at 633 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,960 Speaker 1: predicting given the vast amount of fiscal and monetary response 634 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: we had over the last year. So I think this 635 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 1: is something that needs to be watched very carefully. And 636 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 1: I do think the markets are underestimating this risk. That 637 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 1: that got my attention. The markets are underestimating the risk. 638 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 1: But we'll move on back into the fall. Say, if 639 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,160 Speaker 1: this isn't done by then a genie and we see 640 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: a big uptick in inflation, we start seeing maybe some 641 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 1: tapering and more talk about tightening interest rates. Does that 642 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 1: jeopardize a deal later in the year. It absolutely does. 643 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 1: You know. My view has long been if they don't 644 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 1: get this done as early as possible, meaning probably you know, 645 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 1: in the next month or two, it becomes that much 646 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: harder to do, not only do you have the economic 647 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 1: aspects of it, and you're absolutely right to point to those. 648 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 1: You also have people leaving going back to their districts, 649 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:25,480 Speaker 1: and in the House they're going to be focused on 650 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: about a third of the Senate on guess what, the 651 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 1: midterm election of twenty two, So you want to have 652 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 1: them talk about doing something this big, Particularly if the 653 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 1: economy starts to show signs of being in jeopardy, it's 654 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 1: almost impossible to think they could get the kind of 655 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 1: spending that Democrats are throwing around at this point. So Bill, beginning, 656 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 1: we get back to days, not weeks in this case, 657 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: then could there be something hammered out this week? Or 658 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: are you watching all of the items that I just 659 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 1: mentioned with some level of concern. I'm watching the items 660 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: you're watching with concern. I think it's UM less likely 661 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 1: than not that we're going to get any sort of 662 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 1: package done UH in the next couple of days or weeks. UM. 663 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 1: I think the parties are way too far apart in 664 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,279 Speaker 1: the economic UH indicators that you just discussed. I think 665 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 1: are also going to contribute to the gap that exists 666 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: between the parties. I think people are watching this economic 667 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 1: recovery UM and whether it's going to stall or not 668 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,360 Speaker 1: due to inflation, higher interest rates, or any of the 669 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 1: other indicators that you mentioned with some skeptical concern. Um, 670 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,400 Speaker 1: but I really hope that, uh, you know, the nation 671 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,960 Speaker 1: does need some infrastructure reform. We need to get some 672 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,360 Speaker 1: of this stuff done. Um, it's the type of return 673 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 1: on investment I think a lot of us had hoped 674 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 1: when we were passing some of these large packs packages 675 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,919 Speaker 1: over the past year to help with coronavirus. So, yeah, 676 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: it sure seems like good politics. Everybody wants an infrastructure deal. 677 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:53,280 Speaker 1: But boy, when you start talking about the details, Genie, 678 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:55,920 Speaker 1: what's the what's the good move for Joe Biden? Right now, 679 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 1: we understand he'll be hosting some senators. I suspect one 680 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:00,439 Speaker 1: of them might be named Mansion U at the White 681 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,839 Speaker 1: House later this week. I suspect the leadership might be 682 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 1: involved in that. Or is it time for something more dramatic. 683 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 1: The motorcade goes up to the hill, We're we're gonna 684 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 1: buttonhole people. We're not leaving that we have a deal. Yeah, 685 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 1: count those votes, and nobody knows how to do this 686 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 1: better than Joe Biden. But I suspect you're right, he'll 687 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 1: probably have a Joe mansion up there, probably a Christen cinema, 688 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 1: try to move this thing forward. But I really do 689 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,719 Speaker 1: think that, you know, Joe Biden sees the calendar here 690 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 1: because let's not forget for Joe Biden, this is his legacy. 691 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,200 Speaker 1: This next few weeks, in my mind is his legacy. 692 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: He wants to go big. For Democrats, they fear as 693 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,040 Speaker 1: they move forward they're not going to be able to 694 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,080 Speaker 1: go big. So they're all seeing this as this is 695 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 1: their moment. So my my, I suspect what they will 696 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,400 Speaker 1: do is we're going to see a tightening of Democrats 697 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,799 Speaker 1: trying to come together and try to see if they 698 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,080 Speaker 1: can get something through on reconciliation. As Bill was mentioning, 699 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,799 Speaker 1: a lot of that depends on, you know, if they're 700 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 1: able to get approval to move something forward on reconciliation, 701 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 1: because you never know, but if they can, I think 702 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 1: that is their one way to get something. But it's 703 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 1: not going to be six trillion that that Bernie Sanders 704 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,440 Speaker 1: is talking about Bill in our remaining minute, here, should 705 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,880 Speaker 1: Joe Biden go to the Hill, grab the trigury secretary, 706 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 1: getting them, getting the limousine and make something happen as 707 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:17,919 Speaker 1: a former senior White House official, I would never put 708 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,759 Speaker 1: the president in that position unless he's already got the 709 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,200 Speaker 1: deal struck. I think that you're going to continue to 710 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:25,839 Speaker 1: see groups of Senators coming over to the White House 711 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,200 Speaker 1: in an effort to try and negotiate some sort of plan, 712 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:30,799 Speaker 1: if there's any hope. But I would not expect to 713 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 1: see Joe Biden President Biden to get in the motorcade 714 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:35,400 Speaker 1: to go up to Capitol Hill unless they already know 715 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,160 Speaker 1: that they have the deal struck on a bipartisan basis. Well, 716 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:40,040 Speaker 1: it's going to be an interesting couple of days here 717 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,400 Speaker 1: with meetings in the offing. Bill McGinley, principle of the 718 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:47,680 Speaker 1: Vocal Group, former White House Cabinet Secretary in the Trump administration, 719 00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,319 Speaker 1: former General Counsel AFT the r n C. Great Insights Bill, 720 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:54,439 Speaker 1: Genie she and Zano Bloomberg Politics contributor as well. Great 721 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,319 Speaker 1: to have you back with us, Genie, Joe Matthew in Washington. 722 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:02,239 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Sound Off SA