1 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: Well, Barkley always calls it like he sees it. And 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,319 Speaker 1: when he mentions the players who have won titles with 3 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:11,320 Speaker 1: Houston Rockets, the three who get the most significant minutes 4 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: are chem Olajuan Clyde, Drexler, and Mary o Ellie. But 5 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: Barkley saying flat out that those players, at least one 6 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: of them, we don't know which one is providing a 7 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: lackadaisical effort. 8 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 2: That was me, Hannah Storm way back in nineteen ninety 9 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 2: seven hosting the NBA on NBC. If you've worked as 10 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 2: long as I have, you definitely have a few defining moments. 11 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:41,560 Speaker 2: And little did I realize this was one of those 12 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 2: moments for me because of the response from one of 13 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 2: the NBA's biggest stars. 14 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:54,959 Speaker 3: Second, I wish they would print what I said and 15 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 3: not what they think of me, because y'all got not 16 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 3: that goddamn smart. 17 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 4: You know, you got to have a sense of urgency 18 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 4: because I know I don't want this end. And you know, 19 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:09,320 Speaker 4: they tried to say I was talking about the Ticlar guys. 20 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 4: I wasn't talking about the Ticlar guys. 21 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 2: Before off camera, Barkley told reporters this, and I quote, 22 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 2: I'm really upset about what NBC. Did you tell Dick eversol, 23 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 2: I don't appreciate what they did. I don't have to 24 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 2: go to work for them, even though I told them 25 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 2: I would. It doesn't surprise me though, because it was 26 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 2: Hannah Storm. Women shouldn't be announcing men's sports anyway. 27 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 3: Barkley gets called for the foul work the. 28 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 2: Art heat of the moment comments for sure, but they 29 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 2: expressed an all too common sentiment, especially at the time. 30 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 2: This particular incident happened during the Western Conference Finals. Barkley's 31 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 2: Rockets were down two games to one to the Utah Jazz. 32 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 2: This was the quote that sparked at all, which we 33 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 2: had shared on the NBA on NBC. 34 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 4: A lot of guys on our team accomplish things that 35 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 4: they want to and they kind of lack a daisical 36 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 4: at times and until you realize how it's significant and 37 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 4: important as is. And that's probably the only thing that 38 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 4: disappoints me about our team. You know, we have a 39 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 4: lot of vegan guys who have accomplished what they want 40 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 4: to accomplish, and they don't feel that since the urgency 41 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 4: that I feel. 42 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 2: In questioning who Charles was talking about, I was doing 43 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 2: my job as our NBA host. One can only imagine 44 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:31,959 Speaker 2: today the headlines that would have generated on sports debate 45 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 2: shows as a broadcaster. Now, Charles would have DipEd right in, 46 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 2: I'm sure, but back then, well, his was often a 47 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 2: de facto response. Obviously Charles doesn't feel this way now. 48 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 2: But this story illustrates the type of comments that I've 49 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 2: heard throughout my career, which began back in nineteen eighty three. 50 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Showtime, everybody again. The final of from 51 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: Oakland is Portland one thirteen, Golden State ninety six. 52 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 2: I heard it when I was trying to break into 53 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 2: the business. My audience won't accept a woman doing sports, 54 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 2: My sports director won't work with a woman. I'll hire 55 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 2: a woman over my dead body. 56 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 5: Yeah. 57 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 2: That was a good one. And there's always the standard, 58 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 2: which I've heard many times, believe it or not, as 59 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 2: recently as when I took an NFL play by play 60 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 2: job for Amazon, and that's go back to the kitchen 61 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:28,959 Speaker 2: where you belong. In terms of this incident, I was 62 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 2: already fifteen years into my career, a familiar, credible presence 63 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 2: on CNN and then NBC, and yet I had to wonder, 64 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 2: will I ever get past this. Who else truly believes 65 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 2: I don't belong here? Fortunately, this story has a pretty 66 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 2: good ending. Everybody knew Charles would make a great broadcaster 67 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 2: even back then, and he was a hot candidate to 68 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 2: join NBC after retirement. USA Today had a media column 69 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:01,119 Speaker 2: at the time by Rudy Martz. It was read by 70 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 2: everyone in the business, and of course this story made headlines. 71 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 2: My boss, Dick Ebersall offered this response to USA Today, 72 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 2: and I quote, Charles is like a favorite cousin. He's 73 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:18,039 Speaker 2: always off the wall, always amusing, and unfortunately occasionally sexist, 74 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 2: but will always leave the light on the door for Charles. 75 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 2: Not exactly a repudiation of what Charles said, But Ebersall 76 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 2: had another plan. 77 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 6: Is the Prutential Halftime Report brought you. 78 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 2: Game five of the NBA Finals. I was hosting from 79 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 2: Salt Lake City, the Jazz having beaten the Rockets, and 80 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 2: we were planning to announce the formation of the WNBA. 81 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 1: Halftime of Game five in Utah, with the Jazz leading 82 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: the ball fifty three to forty nine, Chicago trailed by 83 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 1: as much as six. 84 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 2: As it happened, Charles Barkley was the guest analyst on 85 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 2: set that day. Given the circumstances, Ebersall felt that he 86 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 2: you should apologize, and he did on air during the finals. 87 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: Hi, everyone had a storm back in Salt Lake City. 88 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: I'm joined by Charles Barkley of the Houston Rockets, and Charles, 89 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: let's rite off the bat here, clear something up and 90 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 1: address some sexist comments that you made during the course 91 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: of the Western Conference finals, one of them being that 92 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 1: women should not announce men's sporting events. 93 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 4: You know, that was something that was number one, that 94 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 4: was second and stupid, but it was something that was 95 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 4: said in Jess. Now, I want to a person apologize 96 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 4: to you and all the other women out there who 97 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,359 Speaker 4: do men's sports, and I want you to keep up 98 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 4: the good work. But it was just some said and 99 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:35,919 Speaker 4: Jeff that was taking away out of contact, but it 100 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 4: was still stupid. 101 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: Now, last night we both had the opportunity to attend 102 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: a preseason women's NBA game in Houston. 103 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 2: Now, as a. 104 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: Man, do you feel that you're qualified a comment on 105 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 1: the new league? 106 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 3: Well, you know what I'll tell you. 107 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 2: I have to admit that felt really good and better. 108 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 2: Yet Charles grew to become a supportive friend and the 109 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 2: WNBA became a very very important chapter in my career, 110 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 2: just as the NBA was and before that, the American 111 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 2: Basketball Association. One of the questions I am asked the 112 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 2: most is how did you get into this business? It 113 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 2: wasn't really a career option for women. Well, I always 114 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 2: felt that I belonged. That comes from literally growing up 115 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 2: in basketball. 116 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 6: Less than two minutes gone in the ballgame and it's 117 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:33,480 Speaker 6: four to three, Kentucky has the lead, and you can 118 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 6: almost feel the incestity in this game filbo. 119 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 2: For as long as I can remember, my dad, Mike Storren, 120 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 2: was a sports executive, and we followed him around the 121 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 2: country from city to city and team to team. Today, 122 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 2: of course, the NBA is a global sports and entertainment giant. 123 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 2: Players are multi millionaires and cultural icons. 124 00:06:56,000 --> 00:07:00,599 Speaker 6: The rant, oh, padafoul, bing a dollar, a cry back. 125 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:04,479 Speaker 7: Take a doll, oh fuck like change. 126 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 2: Where did all that come from? Well, in part because 127 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 2: of a band of entrepreneurs and visionaries who ended up 128 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 2: changing the game forever and defining the course of my career. 129 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 2: As a young girl, I fell in love with the 130 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 2: fun and excitement of basketball, making sports my dream. Even 131 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 2: though not everyone shared my vision, basketball has been central 132 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 2: to my life, and this podcast weaves through our entwined 133 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 2: history through six decades and three leagues. This is my 134 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 2: NBA DNA Episode one, My Father's Basketball. 135 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 6: It gets it back again. McDaniel's favorite good numbers Kentucky, 136 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 6: the lanes are full right wing, Lois shops and puffs. 137 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 8: He's got it. 138 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 2: The basketball of my childhood is something that few have 139 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 2: actually seen. It exists today through stories passed down through 140 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 2: the years, an oral history of a league that went 141 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 2: largely untelevised into cities like Denver, Indianapolis, San Antonio, Louisville, 142 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 2: Saint Louis and Memphis. It was high flying, wide open, flashy, 143 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 2: and to a kid, pure magic. 144 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 8: Two fires one at that time. 145 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: Are there? 146 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:39,439 Speaker 2: My dad, Mike Storren, was right there at the epicenter 147 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:43,439 Speaker 2: of the upstart league. His favorite part of his decades 148 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 2: long career. His highlight reel is pretty epic. He helped 149 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 2: found the Indiana Pacers and was general manager of three 150 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 2: professional teams, including the Atlanta Hawks. He was the fifth 151 00:08:56,120 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 2: commissioner of the American Basketball Association, which existed from nineteen 152 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 2: sixty seven to nineteen seventy six, and Dad loved to 153 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 2: tell stories about it. 154 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 9: Just tell a lot of lies, right, Star is a 155 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 9: lot better belly. No, I'm just easy. 156 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 2: That's my dad. Sadly we lost him in twenty twenty, 157 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 2: but I'm grateful that he was interviewed extensively by the 158 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 2: folks at the NBA, so you'll hear my dad throughout 159 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 2: this series. He was super creative and I'm proud that 160 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 2: many of his ideas are part of the game today. 161 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 9: Wouldn't it be great one day if we really had 162 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 9: television and more than one game a week on Sunday afternoon. 163 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 9: Wouldn't it be great if we were able to make 164 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 9: and incorporate internationally basketball and tap into and take advantage 165 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 9: of the great players in the world. And wouldn't it 166 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 9: be great if everybody could wear San Antonio Spurs jacket? 167 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 9: And wouldn't it be great if we could acknowledge women's 168 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 9: role in basketball. 169 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 2: Now you can see where I got my ability to 170 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 2: think outside the box. Of course, back then, I was 171 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 2: just a little kid along for the wild ride that 172 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 2: was my dad's career, alongside my two younger brothers, Mark 173 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 2: and Duke Storn. Here's Duke. 174 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 7: We moved around every four years or so. We went 175 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 7: from Indianapolis to Louisville, to Memphis, to Atlanta to Houston. 176 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 7: Always had interesting people over to the house, sometimes athletes, 177 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 7: sometimes just characters from my dad's sports world. 178 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 2: Since we moved around a lot, my dad's teams were 179 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 2: more like extended families that come for Thanksgiving or Christmas parties. 180 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 6: Artist gets it again, I got you back. 181 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 2: I remember players like Bob MADELECKI Melt Daniels, Artist Gilmore, 182 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 2: dan Issel hanging out at the house. 183 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 7: That's probably my earliest memory. I mean, I've got a 184 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 7: great picture of sitting on artist Gilmore's lap. I was, 185 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 7: you know, three years old or something, and you know, 186 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 7: I like he could actually hold me in his hand. 187 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 2: Probably, Oh my gosh, I need that picture. You got 188 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 2: to send me the picture. 189 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 7: Because he was you know, seven too. But as you know, 190 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 7: the froze were so great back in the late sixties 191 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:26,079 Speaker 7: early seventies. 192 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:28,319 Speaker 8: Yeah, he had another He had like. 193 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 7: Another six inches, you know, going with his cool hair. 194 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 6: Feel more setting up low inside Roberts. 195 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 7: You got to go to a lot of good games 196 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 7: and felt like sports royalty, getting a sick courtside and 197 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 7: yell at the refs and do all the things that 198 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 7: my Dad would do well. 199 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 2: Actually, it was Mom who yelled at the referees because 200 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 2: Mom played basketball in college, and so she was constantly 201 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 2: yelling at the refs. And what I remember was she'd 202 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 2: be like, goshoo, he walked, blah blah blah, blah blah. 203 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 2: I remember knowing the names of all the referees almost 204 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 2: better than the players, because Mom would yell at them 205 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:11,680 Speaker 2: right mark. 206 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:14,199 Speaker 8: Half the fun was going there knowing we were just 207 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 8: going to scream at some adults and we could get 208 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 8: away with it, and it was It was totally acceptable. 209 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 8: I also remember sitting around the dinner table right commenting 210 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 8: on teams and players by hate say now, but probably 211 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:28,679 Speaker 8: particularly by me, was like, oh, you don't know, you know, hen, 212 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 8: you just have no idea that. Of course, after a 213 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:35,559 Speaker 8: few years, everyone quickly learned in the entire family never 214 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:37,319 Speaker 8: to argue with Hannah when it came to anything about 215 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 8: sports again, because she always had a lot more facts, 216 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 8: you know, to back up her opinions and stuff. 217 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 2: Those dinner table debates were great for me, especially as 218 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 2: I tried to prove to my dad how much I knew. 219 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 2: I even remember when I was little sitting with him 220 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 2: at our kitchen table in Indianapolis and drawing up the 221 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 2: Pacers colors and team low go, that's so funny. What 222 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 2: sticks with you? Years later? 223 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 8: I remember dan Issel taking his teeth out, I think 224 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 8: Kentucky Colonel's right, taking his front two teeth out before 225 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 8: every game, and he would walk over and he'd scowl 226 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 8: at the bench of the opposing team, you know, missing 227 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 8: these teeth in front, and like I'm like, what's he doing? 228 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 8: And David always laughing, like it's just trying to intimidate 229 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 8: those guys, And of course he usually did on. 230 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 10: The bookles all over the place tonight twenty four point. 231 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 2: Something else that I remember vividly the style women dressed 232 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 2: to the nines for the games. My mom had an 233 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 2: entire closet of wigs and cool outfits like hot pants. 234 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 2: The glamorous women at the games, like C. C. Daniels 235 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 2: and Turquoise Irving. They were like movie stars to me. 236 00:13:58,640 --> 00:13:59,959 Speaker 6: I had a chetam taine for William. 237 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 2: Of course, on the court, it also was all about 238 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 2: stuck the playground moves, the pace of the game, the 239 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:14,479 Speaker 2: three pointers, the slam dunks, all of it would eventually 240 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 2: become a cornerstone of basketball as we know it today, 241 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 2: and at the center of all of it was the 242 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 2: face of the abat doctor j It's so great to 243 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 2: talk to you and great to see you a face 244 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 2: that's so familiar. I've known you since I was a 245 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 2: little girl. I don't know, wondering how old. My dad 246 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 2: always said, I guess I met you, and I was 247 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 2: probably eight. 248 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 11: Yeah. 249 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 2: Julius Irving was the ABA long before he helped lead 250 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 2: the Sixers to an NBA title in nineteen eighty three. 251 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 2: He played hoops at Roosevelt High School on Long Island 252 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:02,359 Speaker 2: and had a few early iterationations of that famous nickname. 253 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 6: Harry come Doctor looks. 254 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 7: For Daylight with me, and they took that to the. 255 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 11: I had a nickname that I had gotten like in 256 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 11: ninth grade from my friend the professor. He called me 257 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 11: the Doctor. So when they started calling me different names, 258 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 11: the Claude he called me, and that was pretending to 259 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 11: be in like Connie Hawkins being called the claw because 260 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 11: I could pick the ball up in one hand, and I. 261 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 5: Was like, I don't want to be clawed. 262 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 2: It doesn't have the same ring. 263 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 11: I don't want to be you know. I don't think 264 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 11: it turned out that well. 265 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 5: For me, I'm not mistaken. 266 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 2: And then doctor Julius, which truly doesn't have the same 267 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 2: ring as doctor J. Right, doctor J. It's just perfect. 268 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 11: Well, I told him the doctor because that was what 269 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 11: Leon gave me. He gave me the doctor, and I 270 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 11: gave him the professor. And so they took to the 271 00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 11: doctor and they said doctor, the doctor. Doctor. That first year, 272 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 11: and when I went to training camp to the team, 273 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 11: positions were called doc and doctor, and our trainer said, well, 274 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 11: you got to be doctor J, because you know doctor 275 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 11: Mason is doctor M. So I became doctor J. 276 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 2: Doctor J was twenty one when he began his ABA career, 277 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 2: having left after his junior year at UMass. That's something 278 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 2: you could not do in the NBA at the time. 279 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 2: He played for the Virginia Squires and later the New 280 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 2: York Nets and helped take the street style of Harlem's 281 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 2: famed Rooker Park to the pro. 282 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 6: Doctor J under unbelievable Doctor J with us back to 283 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 6: the basket. So they get to and they moved it 284 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 6: with the play. 285 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 5: It was. 286 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 12: It was kind of like a coming out party for 287 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 12: me because I had played two years at UMass's varsity 288 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 12: player in one year as a freshman, and during that time, 289 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 12: you know, the dunk was taken out of the game. 290 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 11: He had limited it my sophomore year because you could 291 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:05,239 Speaker 11: dunk in the warm ups, so when you're warming up 292 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 11: and you loosen it up, you can dunk basketball. And 293 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 11: then by junior year, they just took it out all 294 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 11: together because they were trying to slow down Blue el center. 295 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 11: I think they were. 296 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 8: I think it was aimed at him, That's what I. 297 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 5: Was, Okay. 298 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 2: I didn't realize that. 299 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 11: Okay, not that he dunkeed the ball a whole lot, 300 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 11: but it made him develop that skyhook that nobody was 301 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 11: able to taste. 302 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 6: What a big pressure shot. 303 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 11: So I think it was aimed to him. 304 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 2: And in your first season in the ABA, you averaged 305 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 2: twenty seven points fifteen rebounds for assists, your second team 306 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 2: All ABA, a runner up for Rookie of the Year 307 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 2: behind artist Gilmore. How was the top talent of the ABA, Well, I. 308 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,479 Speaker 11: Think the cream of the crop, you know, which was 309 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 11: artists and Danis or George McInnis, Melo Daniels, Roger Brown, 310 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 11: Willie White as Zimobati. The competition was great. I had 311 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 11: a guy named Joe Calwell who was really a thought 312 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 11: on my side. I think I averaged twenty seven points 313 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 11: against the rest of the league in about twenty one 314 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:17,199 Speaker 11: or twenty two against him, and I always have my 315 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 11: shorts turned around after the game. No, I had nothing 316 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:24,159 Speaker 11: but respect for the players. There was a footloose and 317 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:25,959 Speaker 11: fancy freeiness about it. 318 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 9: And of course the NBA position was they play a 319 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:35,400 Speaker 9: undisciplined brand of basketball, they don't know how to play defense, 320 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 9: and they certainly couldn't compete against the wonderful level of 321 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,120 Speaker 9: talent that we have in the NBA. On the other side, 322 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:47,920 Speaker 9: we said, NBA doesn't know what they're talking about. Our 323 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 9: players are just as good as theirs, if not better, 324 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 9: our teams are as good as theirs, if not better, 325 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 9: And we are every bit as good and entertaining and 326 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 9: more entertaining in the NBA. 327 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 2: From day one, the ABA intended to disrupt the League's 328 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 2: founders had watched the American Football League merge with the NFL, 329 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 2: and in nineteen sixty seven they created the ABA in 330 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:22,399 Speaker 2: hopes of a merger with the NBA. At the time, 331 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 2: that's where my dad was in the NBA with the 332 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 2: Cincinnati Royals, but he jumped at the chance to create 333 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 2: a team in the new League in his home state 334 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 2: of Indiana. 335 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 9: As a business manager for the Cincinnati Royals and as 336 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:47,159 Speaker 9: a former Marine, I believed that I could run a 337 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:51,120 Speaker 9: basketball team as well as anybody. All that, of course, 338 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 9: would be subject to question, but certainly not in my mind. 339 00:19:55,280 --> 00:20:01,639 Speaker 9: When the ABA began its formation, a contemporary and best 340 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 9: friend of mine from the Marine Corps was an attorney 341 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 9: in Indianapolis, Indiana. His name was Dick Tinkham, and Dick 342 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:15,159 Speaker 9: put together a group that was interested in joining the 343 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 9: ABA and putting a franchise in Indianapolis, Indiana. And Dick 344 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 9: called me and said, as a contemporary from the Marine Corps, 345 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 9: we're looking for somebody to come in here and run 346 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:31,680 Speaker 9: this thing. Are you interested? And my answer was I'll 347 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,120 Speaker 9: be there tomorrow. 348 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 2: Dad grew up in Michigan City, Indiana, and went to 349 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 2: Notre Dame, playing one year of football there, just as 350 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 2: he did following college when he served in the Marine Corps. 351 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 2: Then he decided to try and make sports a career. 352 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,920 Speaker 2: As we were living in Chicago, where I had been born. 353 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 9: And so I wrote every sports team in the United 354 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 9: States and said that I was coming out of the 355 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,400 Speaker 9: Marine Corps and I was looking for a job, and 356 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 9: I received somewhere around two hundred rejection letters, and as 357 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 9: a result, I thought, well, let's see it doesn't work 358 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 9: by sending anybody a letter. So I read in the 359 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 9: Chicago Tribune that the then Chicago Zephyr's professional basketball team 360 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 9: had only sold six hundred season tickets. So I picked 361 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:28,399 Speaker 9: up the telephone and I called the owner of the 362 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 9: Chicago Zephyrs and I said, this is Captain Mike Storn 363 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 9: of the United States Marine Corps, and I'd like to 364 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 9: meet you on personal business. So he had no idea 365 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 9: who it was or what was going on. Put it 366 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,120 Speaker 9: on my dressed blue uniform, went down to his office 367 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 9: and I said, mister Trager, I personally will sell six 368 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,199 Speaker 9: hundred new season tickets for your team. He hired me 369 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:58,400 Speaker 9: and I became the promotion director for the Chicago Zephyrs, 370 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 9: who subsequently moved to Baltimore, where I moved with the 371 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,440 Speaker 9: team and started my professional sports career. 372 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:20,919 Speaker 2: My dad was unafraid to put himself out there a 373 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 2: trait my brothers and I would inherit. 374 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 13: Was it Chicago, where he would open the back door 375 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 13: and let in everybody, so that would look like that 376 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 13: the stadium was filled up for that Baltimore. 377 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 2: I bet he did that in numerous cities too. 378 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:43,159 Speaker 6: Well. 379 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 7: I mean, I think he always looked at another way 380 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:50,679 Speaker 7: to solve a problem. You know, he would do that. 381 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 7: He would extend that like to everyday life, Like he 382 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:58,120 Speaker 7: always found a parking space even if it was illegal, 383 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 7: like right, it's an entrant, or if there was a 384 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 7: line for tickets, you know. I remember Mark tells a 385 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,120 Speaker 7: story he was going to see I don't know, Star 386 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:08,120 Speaker 7: Wars or something. 387 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:11,680 Speaker 8: Non Living Dead midnight movie along. 388 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 7: My living dad and they were one hundred people back 389 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 7: and Dad would say, I'll be back in a minute, 390 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:18,880 Speaker 7: and he would like come back with the ticket. Yeah, 391 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 7: the rules didn't always apply to Dad, and I think 392 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 7: he was really proud of that. And I think that 393 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 7: that type of example inspired us all to maybe think 394 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 7: differently and not just accept the status quo of the 395 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 7: way that the world worked. And you know, obviously, Hannah, 396 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 7: you just breaking through like every glass ceiling as a 397 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:44,119 Speaker 7: pre eminent woman's sportscaster that led the way for all 398 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 7: all the others, you must have absorbed that same lesson. 399 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 7: It's like, just because that's the way that things are 400 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 7: doesn't mean this way they have to be. 401 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 8: I just remember that we really kind of had a 402 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,120 Speaker 8: sports culture that we grew up in, right, So it's 403 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 8: so not surprising handed that, you know, you've broken down 404 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,399 Speaker 8: a lot of those walls and stuff to be you know, 405 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,919 Speaker 8: a woman broadcaster in sports, and that dad, you know, 406 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 8: made a career out of it. Every house we lived in, 407 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,680 Speaker 8: the first thing that happened we moved to a new house. 408 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 8: Who gets put up right? 409 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 2: Yep? 410 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 8: In the driveway, Samannada, we always had a ping pong table. Yeah, 411 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 8: there was just constantly this, oh, let's go play this, 412 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 8: you know, where there was a game or sports doing 413 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 8: the football or whatever. There was just constantly this culture 414 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 8: of competing in sports that was going on all the time. 415 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 11: Right. 416 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 8: Yeah. 417 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 2: You also got rid of a bunch of my boyfriends 418 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 2: that way. So every time I would date somebody, oh 419 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 2: my god, every time I would date somebody, Mark and 420 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 2: Duke would take him out on the hoops court and 421 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,880 Speaker 2: Dad too, egging the whole thing. And then like if 422 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,879 Speaker 2: the guy like wasn't like a decent hoops player, you 423 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 2: can tell the story, but you can't say name's Mark. 424 00:24:53,240 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 8: Yes, we did get rid of several boyfriends starting to 425 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 8: high school, I think right like Hannah would kind of 426 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 8: get serious and then definitely in college and afterwards, and 427 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 8: when it started to you know, turn the corner hand, 428 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 8: it would go from you know, it was a fun 429 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 8: day to you know, a little twickle in her eye 430 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,879 Speaker 8: to come up it was like, okay, we have to 431 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 8: take this person out, and it would be too unto 432 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,919 Speaker 8: So often it was Dad and I against Duke and 433 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 8: Hannah's boyfriend, and the whole thing was we don't really 434 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,640 Speaker 8: care if he shoots that well, but what's the dude 435 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 8: gonna do when he takes a heart foul? Like that 436 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 8: was Dad's things, like he's like, you know, one time 437 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 8: it would be you know, Duke on the opposite team, 438 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 8: next over your knee, but one of us would be 439 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:41,880 Speaker 8: like you knock him on his butt or shove him 440 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 8: on a pit into the bushes next to the garage, 441 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 8: and then don't say thing like no one likes you know, no, 442 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 8: oh starry. If the dude gets up and he's whiny 443 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 8: and like this, you know, total baby and then trying 444 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 8: to like get up everyone's face, it's like, you know, 445 00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 8: one of us is gonna tell hand this this person's 446 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,959 Speaker 8: not gonna work out. And then, of course when we 447 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,639 Speaker 8: did the same thing with Dan Hicks, Dan Hicks happens 448 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 8: to be not only a really good sportscaster and golfer, 449 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 8: but dude can shoot some hoops to my gosh, and 450 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,399 Speaker 8: of course, you know, he took his fair share of 451 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 8: you know, elbows to the face and heart kicks. 452 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 2: Never complained once spoiler alert, I married Dan. But enough 453 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,639 Speaker 2: of that, let's get back to the story of my dad. 454 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,200 Speaker 2: He saw an opportunity with the ABA, and he wasn't 455 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 2: afraid to take it. 456 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 9: The exciting part of my going to Indiana and going 457 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 9: into the ABA is that I started in Indianapolis, Indiana, 458 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:47,400 Speaker 9: with a yellow legal pad and a pencil. Starting from 459 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 9: scratch was a wonderful opportunity for me. That meant I 460 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 9: had total control and I could implement and do everything 461 00:26:58,119 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 9: the way that I thought it should be done. 462 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 2: There were no assistant GMS, scouting directors, presidents of basketball operations. 463 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 2: When my dad went to Indiana, he made all the 464 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 2: basketball decisions. He brought in three future Hall of famers, 465 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 2: hired Slick Leonard to coach, traded for superstar Mel Daniels 466 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 2: and sign the man that many have called the best 467 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 2: player to never play in the NBA, Roger Brown. My 468 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 2: dad's decisions would become the foundation of a team that 469 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 2: won three titles and went to five ABA finals. Of course, 470 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 2: not all of my dad's moves over the years were popular, 471 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 2: as we learned firsthand when my dad became general manager 472 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 2: of the Kentucky Colonels and fired its popular coach, Gene Rhodes. 473 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,400 Speaker 9: One of the articles said, if you don't like what 474 00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 9: mister Starrn has done, go to the games and boo him, 475 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 9: and two call him and tell them what you think. Well, 476 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 9: I've never had an unlisted phone, and a lot of 477 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,199 Speaker 9: people called. I must say that my wife became a 478 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 9: little upset with the results, not particularly happy when some 479 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 9: people dumb garbage on my front lawn. And so, to 480 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 9: make a long story short, I had my wife and 481 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:31,920 Speaker 9: kids go to Disneyland for a week while things cooled off. 482 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:34,200 Speaker 2: Here's my brother Mark. 483 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 8: I know that Dad would orchestrate trades on behalf of 484 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 8: the team, and a lot of times people be protesting 485 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 8: Dan's moves. And here's one picture, this guy holding the 486 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 8: sign saying trade storing for schubin it. Yeah, Pacers, right, 487 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 8: So I remember not everyone always being happy about decisions 488 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,239 Speaker 8: that might have been made that impacted the team. But 489 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 8: also I remember the react, you know, Dan's reaction, which is, 490 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 8: you know, you know what, we don't need to worry 491 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 8: about those people. And there's always going to be people 492 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 8: who love you. There's always gonna be people that hate you, 493 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 8: so you know, you just got to kind of kind 494 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 8: of carry on. 495 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 2: I vividly remember being in Memphis and people putting for 496 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 2: sale signs in our. 497 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 5: Yard though oh really, oh really. 498 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I do remember that. And then I remember being 499 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 2: in high school with the Atlanta Hawks. Dad was only 500 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,959 Speaker 2: with the Hawks for a couple of months before he 501 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 2: made a move that Ted Turner didn't like. And I 502 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 2: remember being in high school and dad had just gotten 503 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 2: the job with the Atlanta Hawks and then he was 504 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 2: like fired almost immediately, like months later, and I remember 505 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 2: that that was super embarrassing and like sad as a 506 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 2: high school kid, you mean, yeah, yeah, you know, you 507 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 2: felt bad for your dad. You felt like, oh, you're 508 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 2: not the new kid in town, and like, so there's 509 00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 2: some things I remember like that, but I think mostly 510 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 2: our remember like the sadness of losing we love to 511 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 2: just yell at athletes and you know, rip on gms 512 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 2: and say that coaches should be fired and all of that. 513 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 2: And I mean, I don't know about you, guys, but 514 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 2: I do think about our own experience of like our 515 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 2: dad getting fired from jobs and you know, losing jobs 516 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 2: and one that does to your family and moving around, 517 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 2: and I don't know, I think that that gives you 518 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 2: a lot of empathy. Growing up with my dad gave 519 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 2: me an understanding of the business of sports. After his 520 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 2: Indiana Pacers won the ABA title in nineteen seventy, he 521 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 2: became president GM and part owner of the Kentucky Colonels, 522 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 2: quickly building the team into an ABA powerhouse. In nineteen 523 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,080 Speaker 2: seventy one, he secured the draft rights for Hall of 524 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 2: Famer the A train artist Gilmore, who was drafted in 525 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 2: both leagues, but went to the Colonels on a ten year, 526 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 2: two point five million dollar contract, becoming both Rookie of 527 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 2: the Year and MVP over Julia Servia. 528 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 6: Or should get Blowing's side being jam Bombers command the Breen. 529 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:09,480 Speaker 5: Going off there. 530 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,479 Speaker 2: My dad was intent on proving to the NBA that 531 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 2: the ABA was legit. 532 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 9: I was able to put together the first exhibition games 533 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 9: between the leagues, so we were able to bring in 534 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 9: in one exhibition game the Milwaukee Bucks, who at the 535 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 9: time had a guy named Oscar Robison playing that's center, 536 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 9: whose name was the Kareem Abdul Jabbar, and we of 537 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 9: course had Dan Essel and artist Gilmore and Louis Dampier, 538 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 9: one of the great shooters of all time. I don't 539 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 9: even remember who won. I guess I would suggest we did, 540 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 9: but I can remember the building was sold out and 541 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 9: I remember artists stepping into the center against Kareem. I 542 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 9: think the players walked away in their own mind and said, 543 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 9: we really are as good as these guys. In fact, 544 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:06,960 Speaker 9: we really are better. 545 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 2: Kentucky was a springboard to my dad's next gig where 546 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 2: he could really wield some influence as the fifth Commissioner 547 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 2: of the ABA in nineteen seventy three. It was really 548 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 2: exciting for my family. We got to fly to New 549 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 2: York City for the announcement. Here's Duke. 550 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 7: My early first limo ride I think I ever went on. 551 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 7: I just remember this incredible trip. I mean it was 552 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 7: I was young, but I still still remember it. 553 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 2: We went to the twenty one Club. I remember like 554 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 2: coming to New York and being like, oh, this is 555 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 2: my dream man, I want to live here one day. 556 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 2: And I would many years later working for NBC Sports, 557 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 2: which is where I first met legendary broadcaster Bob Costas. 558 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 10: The two craziest experiences of my life were the first 559 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 10: two at twenty one in the Eastern Hockey League and 560 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 10: then at twenty two in the ABA. And you know 561 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 10: from your own experience and your dad's that the ABA 562 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 10: was both ridiculous. 563 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 2: And subloc Bob also got his start in the ABA 564 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 2: long before he became a star with NBC. He left 565 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 2: Syracuse University in nineteen seventy four twelve credits shy of 566 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 2: graduation to become the play by play announcer for the 567 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 2: Saint Louis Spirits. And you were twenty two years old, right. 568 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 5: Yeah, I was twenty two. I looked like host fifteen. 569 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 2: Okay, I believe that, because right now you look like 570 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 2: you're I don't know, forty. Maybe you know, for the 571 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 2: purposes this is a podcast, our audience will just have 572 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 2: to take my word for it. 573 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,120 Speaker 6: Edel File Circle lukas Plait by Barnes looks inside for Gildore, 574 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 6: finds him in the lane for the hook that has gone. 575 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,160 Speaker 10: You know, I think that the ABA wanted to distinguish 576 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 10: itself in various ways from the NBA. The Red White 577 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 10: and Blue ball was part of that. The encouraging of individualism, 578 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 10: provisational play, again which the old timers scoffed at, But 579 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 10: when you look at David Thompson, or you look at 580 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,200 Speaker 10: Doctor j who was the greatest of all of them, 581 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 10: they influenced everybody. The slam dunk contests started in the ABA, 582 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 10: and again the NBA guys said, all want a cheap gimmick, 583 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 10: and then they adopted it, and with Michael Jordan and everybody, 584 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,960 Speaker 10: it became a staple of the All Star Game. The 585 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,280 Speaker 10: three pointer was, at least when I was in the ABA, 586 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,399 Speaker 10: and I would say the first couple of decades after 587 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 10: its adoption by the NBA, it was a strategic punctuation. 588 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 10: Usually it was a pull up if the guy was 589 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:41,840 Speaker 10: wide open and unguarded. Now it's integrated in a way 590 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,800 Speaker 10: that there may be in a giving game more threes 591 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:45,840 Speaker 10: taken than twos. 592 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 2: The league's free wheeling style and offensive rules were different. 593 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:55,080 Speaker 2: The iconic Red White and Blue basketball, the concept of cheerleaders, 594 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:59,799 Speaker 2: crazy halftime entertainment. All of it was designed to sell 595 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:04,279 Speaker 2: tickets because there was no revenue from a national television contract. 596 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 10: You know, do you think of one of the best remembered 597 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 10: plays Doctor j in nineteen eighty against the Lakers, that 598 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 10: deal where he went under the basket and came back 599 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:21,040 Speaker 10: out the other side, or the rock the Baby dunk 600 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,320 Speaker 10: where he came diagonally and just went over every I think. 601 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,960 Speaker 5: You might have gone over way rock the baby. 602 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 2: That's way when slam dunk swung that baby way. 603 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 10: Those moves, which were widely appreciated because they were on 604 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 10: national television with the NBA. I saw moves like that 605 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 10: in games that were not on TV, in front of 606 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 10: the crowds of. 607 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,600 Speaker 5: Five thousand in Saint Louis and elsewhere. 608 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:46,920 Speaker 10: And I think one of the things about the ABA, 609 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:48,960 Speaker 10: and I'm sure you talked about this with your dad 610 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 10: and other people, it might be the last major American 611 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 10: sports enterprise that has a real element of legend, because 612 00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,879 Speaker 10: a lot of the stories come across as apocryphal. Well, 613 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 10: this is what I saw that night at Freedom Hall. 614 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 5: Now I don't know. I was on the other side 615 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:04,840 Speaker 5: of the court. I saw it differently. 616 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,360 Speaker 10: You know, say anything you want about Michael Jordan and 617 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:09,799 Speaker 10: as great as he was, or Lebron or whomever you 618 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,839 Speaker 10: want to name, everything they did is fully documented from 619 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 10: ten different angles. 620 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 2: What about you as a broadcaster, you know, getting that 621 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,560 Speaker 2: assignment at such a young age and having that be, 622 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,319 Speaker 2: as you said, just your second assignment. Ever, I don't 623 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 2: know what did you learn during all those crazy years 624 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 2: or with this renegade league. You know, all these fascinating 625 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 2: individuals just winging it, you know, making it up as 626 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:34,920 Speaker 2: they went along. 627 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,799 Speaker 10: There was enough absurdity that I could latch onto that 628 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:40,799 Speaker 10: you also have to remember this. I'm a contemporary of 629 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:45,840 Speaker 10: all the players, guys like the late wonderful Steve Snapper Jones. 630 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:47,120 Speaker 5: He was a veteran. 631 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 10: He was like, you know, thirty one, thirty two years old, 632 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,319 Speaker 10: so he's the wise man of the team. I was 633 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,080 Speaker 10: roughly the same age as most of the other guys 634 00:36:55,160 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 10: on the team. We hung around together, Maurice Lucas, Marvin Barnes, 635 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,760 Speaker 10: Gus Gerard Fly Williams, who was as crazy as. 636 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 2: It came, the famous Marvin Barnes or infamous Marvin Barnes. 637 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 2: So share with their audience, who exactly Marvin Barnes was. 638 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,920 Speaker 10: Marvin Barnes was an All American in Providence team that 639 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,920 Speaker 10: went to the Final Four. At one point, he was 640 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:23,719 Speaker 10: selected second in both the NBA and ABA drafts, right 641 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:27,080 Speaker 10: behind Bill Walton. So it tells you how highly regarded 642 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:31,120 Speaker 10: he was. And he and Moses Malone were rookies at 643 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 10: the same time, same year in the ABA, and Marvin 644 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,080 Speaker 10: was the ABA Rookie of the Year. Moses goes on 645 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:40,040 Speaker 10: to the Hall of Fame, wins three MVPs in the NBA. 646 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,680 Speaker 10: That's how good Marvin Barnes was. There were nights when 647 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,280 Speaker 10: he was the best player on the floor. Not doctor 648 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 10: j not artist Gilmore, not dan Issel or anybody else 649 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,360 Speaker 10: you wanted to mention. Marvin Barnes, if he had stayed 650 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,400 Speaker 10: on the straight and narrow, would certainly have been among 651 00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 10: the top fifty in nineteen ninety seven in Cleveland, the 652 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,439 Speaker 10: top seventy five again this past year when they named 653 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,759 Speaker 10: the seventy five greatest, no question about it. But he 654 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 10: was as crazy as he was talented. It was hard 655 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:14,160 Speaker 10: to dislike him, though, because he was so humorous. And 656 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,920 Speaker 10: there's a lot of stories. And I know that some 657 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:18,880 Speaker 10: people have heard this one before, because I've built it 658 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,839 Speaker 10: so many times, but it kind of personifies him. We 659 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,880 Speaker 10: played in Kentucky against a very good Colonel's team that 660 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:27,600 Speaker 10: won the championship that first year that I was in 661 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:28,160 Speaker 10: the league. 662 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:29,399 Speaker 2: That was my dad's team. 663 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:33,400 Speaker 10: Yeah, of course, so you know, teams didn't travel by 664 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,040 Speaker 10: charter then, certainly not in the AVA where everybody was on. 665 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:39,080 Speaker 5: A shoe string budget. Louisville is four and a half 666 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,040 Speaker 5: five hour drive from Saint Louis, but it's in the 667 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:42,000 Speaker 5: Eastern time zone. 668 00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,000 Speaker 10: So we lose as we usually did at Freedom Hall, 669 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,759 Speaker 10: and we gathered the next day at the airport and 670 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:51,920 Speaker 10: the trainer, who double as the traveling secretary, he passes 671 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:55,640 Speaker 10: out the itinerary and it says TWA flight three oh 672 00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:57,719 Speaker 10: five depart Louisville. 673 00:38:58,120 --> 00:38:58,840 Speaker 5: Eight am. 674 00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:03,280 Speaker 10: Arrived Saint Louis was seven fifty six and Marvin Barnes 675 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 10: beckons me over, drapes an arm around my shoulder, and 676 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,160 Speaker 10: from more than a foot above me, he says, bro, 677 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:13,680 Speaker 10: do you see this. I said yes. He says, well, 678 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:16,319 Speaker 10: I don't know about you, but as for me, I 679 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:21,280 Speaker 10: am not getting on any time machine now. Some people 680 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,560 Speaker 10: thought that meant that Marvin was dumb, but he wasn't dumb. 681 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:27,319 Speaker 10: He was smart and he knew that was funny. But 682 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:29,319 Speaker 10: he also knew I was more likely to get it 683 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,600 Speaker 10: than let's say, Fly Williams, so he decided. 684 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:33,400 Speaker 5: To drop the line on me. 685 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:39,320 Speaker 2: I always picture Marvin bad News Barns in his floor 686 00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:43,160 Speaker 2: length mink coat, and then there was Darnell, doctor dunk 687 00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:47,600 Speaker 2: Hillman with his massive afro. And picture this Larry Brown 688 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:53,080 Speaker 2: sporting overalls on the sideline. Everything was looser in the ABA. 689 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,319 Speaker 9: The first thing I decided was, well, I guess afros 690 00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:01,120 Speaker 9: were okay. So one of the the rules I relaxed 691 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,320 Speaker 9: was you didn't have to have your hair closely trimmed, 692 00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:08,640 Speaker 9: but no facial hair. And then as we were looking 693 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:13,080 Speaker 9: at drafting players, I looked at and I said, you know, 694 00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,360 Speaker 9: one of the players were really interested in as a 695 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:20,000 Speaker 9: guy named Artist Gilmore. And Artist really has a lot 696 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:25,360 Speaker 9: of facial hair. So in anticipation of what was to come, 697 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,560 Speaker 9: one of the rules I changed was you could go 698 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:29,839 Speaker 9: ahead and have facial hair. 699 00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,920 Speaker 2: The ABA didn't want any obstacles when it came to 700 00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,600 Speaker 2: convincing players to come to their league, and to that end, 701 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:41,279 Speaker 2: my father also helped to craft something they called the 702 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:46,160 Speaker 2: hardship rule that enabled players to turn professional before finishing 703 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,319 Speaker 2: four years of college, something they could not do in 704 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:53,760 Speaker 2: the NBA. Just part of my dad's legacy. He left 705 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:57,359 Speaker 2: his post as ABA commissioner after a year to take 706 00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:01,320 Speaker 2: part ownership of the Memphis Sounds, having set the foundation 707 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:09,239 Speaker 2: for an eventual merger with the NBA. 708 00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:11,719 Speaker 9: I mean, every player we signed could have signed in 709 00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,680 Speaker 9: the NBA. And so when you looked at people like 710 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:18,239 Speaker 9: Julius Irving and the artist Gilmour and Dan Issel and 711 00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:22,959 Speaker 9: Mel Daniels and Freddie Lewis and on and on and on, 712 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:29,719 Speaker 9: every single player cast his lot with our belief in 713 00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:33,480 Speaker 9: our vision and in what we said we're going to do. 714 00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:36,600 Speaker 9: And so as I look back, that was, you know, 715 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:38,240 Speaker 9: a wonderful experience. 716 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:43,759 Speaker 2: Those times are part of my family's folklore. Here's Bob 717 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:45,600 Speaker 2: costas doctor. 718 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,160 Speaker 10: J of the ABA is like factual page of the 719 00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:49,600 Speaker 10: Negro Leads or something. 720 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:51,759 Speaker 5: You know, it's all word about pretty much. 721 00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:56,120 Speaker 10: And there was so much mystery and fascination surrounding him 722 00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 10: when he came to the NBA with the seventy six 723 00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:00,839 Speaker 10: ers and a lot of skeptic we'll see how good 724 00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:01,480 Speaker 10: this guy is. 725 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,400 Speaker 2: And then I found out how what he was described 726 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:08,000 Speaker 2: to somebody, how special it was because you know, it 727 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:09,960 Speaker 2: wasn't on TV. It's just one of the reasons why 728 00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:12,959 Speaker 2: they went overboard to make it so entertaining to see 729 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,880 Speaker 2: in person, right, because they didn't have a television contract, 730 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,080 Speaker 2: so they had to deal with the revenue that was 731 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,440 Speaker 2: there in front of the fans. What would you tell 732 00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:22,560 Speaker 2: the people that they missed, just. 733 00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:25,680 Speaker 10: How much crazy fun it was and how to this 734 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:29,200 Speaker 10: day it's a fraternity. You know, I've been lucky enough 735 00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:31,880 Speaker 10: to do a lot of things, But if I bumped 736 00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:35,280 Speaker 10: into somebody who's associated with the ABA in their mind 737 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:39,239 Speaker 10: first and foremost, I'm an ABA guy. That's how hub 738 00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,040 Speaker 10: Brown remembers me. Hubie Brown's a Yeah. I looked over 739 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:43,480 Speaker 10: and there was this kid there. I thought he was 740 00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:45,440 Speaker 10: the ball boy. He looked like he was twelve. Then 741 00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:47,560 Speaker 10: I realized he's calling the game human. He's been telling 742 00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:49,479 Speaker 10: the same story over and over, and now he's ninety, 743 00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:51,200 Speaker 10: you'll probably be telling it when he was one hundred. 744 00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:55,040 Speaker 10: So it's kind of this fraternity that only those of 745 00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:58,440 Speaker 10: us who were there fully appreciated, and it's like a 746 00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:02,319 Speaker 10: secret club. So if I bumped into artists Gilmore or 747 00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,840 Speaker 10: Danesel or even Rick Barry who had more years in 748 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,960 Speaker 10: the NBA than the ABA, but that ABA DNA is 749 00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,680 Speaker 10: part of his life story as well. And even though 750 00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:17,200 Speaker 10: I think the ABA ultimately has gotten do we still 751 00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:19,000 Speaker 10: believe that you had to be. 752 00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:26,360 Speaker 8: There that DNA right of the ABA, like the energy 753 00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:32,479 Speaker 8: and the flash and district entertainment value really pursued when 754 00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:34,480 Speaker 8: the two leagues merge. Right, If you look at the 755 00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,400 Speaker 8: NBA today, I would say it's much more like the 756 00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,359 Speaker 8: ABA of those old days than how the NBA used 757 00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:40,560 Speaker 8: to be. 758 00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:40,839 Speaker 11: Right. 759 00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:44,560 Speaker 8: That DNA and the ABA really has filtered into the NBA, 760 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,920 Speaker 8: and it's now a big part of how we look 761 00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:48,640 Speaker 8: at the NBA. 762 00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,920 Speaker 2: Right, and we're all still like huge fans. Is there 763 00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:56,279 Speaker 2: something that I didn't consider including in this conversation, or 764 00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:59,000 Speaker 2: maybe a thought or two that you that you want 765 00:43:59,000 --> 00:43:59,400 Speaker 2: to add. 766 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:01,520 Speaker 7: Let me think about that for a minute. 767 00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:02,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, Mark. 768 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,200 Speaker 8: I think we should probably talk a little bit more 769 00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:09,000 Speaker 8: about your sports upbringing, you know, and the days of 770 00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:12,279 Speaker 8: Hannah Storm being molded into the sports cash that she 771 00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:16,040 Speaker 8: is today, because you were pretty athletic, even though you 772 00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:19,319 Speaker 8: didn't pursue it hard. I think that's a little bit. 773 00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:20,600 Speaker 8: Do you think that there's a little bit of a 774 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:22,759 Speaker 8: mission there in terms of, you know, how Hane it 775 00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:23,839 Speaker 8: got to be where she is now. 776 00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:26,279 Speaker 2: I don't know if I was like athlet I mean 777 00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,640 Speaker 2: it was really before Title nine, right, so it's like 778 00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:33,560 Speaker 2: women's sports weren't huge. I tried everything, though, but I 779 00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,480 Speaker 2: think more it was like the singing and acting and 780 00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:39,839 Speaker 2: being on stage and just really discovering that and being 781 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:43,400 Speaker 2: kind of a ham and then really understanding from the 782 00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:45,560 Speaker 2: way that we grow up from being a girl that 783 00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:48,000 Speaker 2: was allowed to be around sports a lot because of 784 00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,839 Speaker 2: our dad being exposed to it, and understanding how fun 785 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,440 Speaker 2: it was, you know what I mean, So wanting to 786 00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:55,640 Speaker 2: go into TV or wanting to go into the public eye, 787 00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:59,640 Speaker 2: wanted to do something in broadcasting, but where it wasn't 788 00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,160 Speaker 2: a pas for girls to go into sports. I think 789 00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:04,799 Speaker 2: I was so determined to go into sports because I 790 00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,920 Speaker 2: knew from us growing up just how great it was. 791 00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:11,160 Speaker 7: And you know, the resiliency. I mean, let's face it, 792 00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:13,960 Speaker 7: we moved every four years, not because we are moving 793 00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:17,640 Speaker 7: to every new great opportunity, you know, we are moving 794 00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:20,239 Speaker 7: because we had to right to the next one. Maybe 795 00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:23,040 Speaker 7: maybe not the commissioner job, but all the others. But 796 00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:28,640 Speaker 7: that's resiliency, you know, and modeled resiliency. Coupling that with 797 00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:32,480 Speaker 7: enthusiasm and hard work and intelligence. You know, those are 798 00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:37,040 Speaker 7: all lessons that we absorbed growing up. And you've been 799 00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:40,799 Speaker 7: incredibly resilient, you know, your whole career, Hannah. People saying 800 00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:42,239 Speaker 7: you can't go into the locker. 801 00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:42,960 Speaker 2: Room, yeah, I remember. 802 00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:43,600 Speaker 5: That was like a lot. 803 00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:51,760 Speaker 7: Yeah, controversy and so many misogyny and the doubts about having, 804 00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:55,200 Speaker 7: you know, a woman to be a sportscaster. That's another 805 00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:59,040 Speaker 7: part of our upbringing that really is part of your DNA, 806 00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:01,239 Speaker 7: part of all of our DNAs that really helped you 807 00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:04,960 Speaker 7: succeed and break through, you know, and just having confidence 808 00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,800 Speaker 7: in yourself I think has been It's been really fun 809 00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,040 Speaker 7: for Mark and I to watch and really inspiring, you know. 810 00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:15,799 Speaker 2: So hey, it's part of our DNA. I love you 811 00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:22,720 Speaker 2: guys so much. Next time. 812 00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:30,080 Speaker 14: On NBA DNA, every year there was a competition for 813 00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:34,160 Speaker 14: players leaving college and having to make a choice between 814 00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:36,240 Speaker 14: the NBA and the ABA. 815 00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:38,440 Speaker 10: And when we look back on it and think about 816 00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:41,239 Speaker 10: what even the least the players makes now, it all 817 00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:43,840 Speaker 10: seems so trivial, but these guys had to fight for 818 00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,480 Speaker 10: the right to have free agency and the right to 819 00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:50,120 Speaker 10: have some sort of control over their own lives and careers. 820 00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:52,120 Speaker 11: You know, if you got a check, you ran to 821 00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:55,640 Speaker 11: the bank real quick admitted deposit just to make sure. 822 00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:56,359 Speaker 8: It held up. 823 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:11,239 Speaker 2: NBA DNA with Hannah Storm is a production of iHeart Podcasts, 824 00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:15,440 Speaker 2: the NBA and Brainstorman Productions. The show is written and 825 00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:19,640 Speaker 2: executive produced by me Hannah Storm, along with Julia Weaver 826 00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:24,240 Speaker 2: and Alex French. Our lead producer and showrunner is Julia Weaver. 827 00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:29,800 Speaker 2: Our senior producers are Peter Kouder, Alex French, and Brandon Reese. 828 00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:33,880 Speaker 2: Editing and sound design by Kurt Garn and Julia Weaver. 829 00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:38,680 Speaker 2: The show's executive producers are Carmen Belmont, Jason English, Sean 830 00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:42,200 Speaker 2: ty Tone, Steve Weintraub, and Jason Weikelt.