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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ethan Edelman and this is psychoactive, a production

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Speaker 1: of I heart radio and protozoa pictures. psychoactive is the

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Speaker 1: show where we talk about all things drugs, but any

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Speaker 1: views expressed here do not represent those of my heart media,

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Speaker 1: protozoa pictures or their executives and employees. Indeed, as an

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Speaker 1: inveterate contrarian, I can tell you they may not even

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Speaker 1: represent my own, and nothing contained in this show should

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Speaker 1: be used his medical advice or encouragement to use any

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Speaker 1: type of drugs. Hello, psychoactive listeners, so today we're bringing

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Speaker 1: you a bonus episode. A few weeks ago I was

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Speaker 1: on somebody else's podcast. It was the actress and Comedian

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Speaker 1: Chelsea Handler. Her podcast is called Dear Chelsea, and she

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Speaker 1: asked me all sorts of questions about drugs, and then

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Speaker 1: we took turns answering questions from her audience. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: you're really going to enjoy this. Hi everybody. While I'm

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Speaker 1: taking the month of September off of doing stand up,

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Speaker 1: I return on October one to complete my vaccinated and

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Speaker 1: Horny tour. October, November and December. I have new dates up.

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Speaker 1: I kick it off in Saratoga, California, and I'm coming

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Speaker 1: to all parts of California, Long Beach, Bakersfield. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to Niagara Falls, Tucson, Arizona, Colorado, Minneapolis, San Diego, reading,

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Speaker 1: Pennsylvania and Baltimore, Maryland, just to name a few. There's

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Speaker 1: also some Floridian dates in there, since this will be

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Speaker 1: my last year that I'm able to go inside the

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Speaker 1: state of Florida. SO CHECK OUT CHELSEA HANDLER DOT COM

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Speaker 1: for more stand up dates for my vaccinated in Horny tour.

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Speaker 1: These are my last dates. Hi, Catherine, how are you?

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Speaker 1: I'm so good. I'm here in L A and it's

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Speaker 1: going to be a hundred and four this weekend. I

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Speaker 1: left l a because I don't like that kind of

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Speaker 1: temperature and but I'm going to see you in my

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Speaker 1: orcas soon. Catherine and I are going on vacation together

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Speaker 1: with Brad. We're going to become a throuple. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: open up their relationship. That wouldn't be weird. You're welcome in.

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Speaker 1: We're really good at snuggling and after care. I was

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Speaker 1: just at a lunch. I'm in New York City this

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Speaker 1: week because I'm here to watch the US Open, because

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Speaker 1: I wanted to watch Serena play for the last time,

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Speaker 1: so I went to the first night where she fucking won,

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Speaker 1: and it was so special. I just love that energy.

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Speaker 1: I love watching people win. Yes, she came out in

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Speaker 1: like a glittery wrote like tape, like a queen. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she had six layers to signify all of the I

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Speaker 1: guess six US opens. She had one and she played

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Speaker 1: this girl whose name, God, that's terrible, I can't remember.

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Speaker 1: But the girl was so good. It's so funny to

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Speaker 1: watch Serena play because, like her opponents are always just

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Speaker 1: running back and forth with such athleticism and Serena just

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Speaker 1: stands there. She's just like here, I'll return the ball

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Speaker 1: from over here, like I'm not running anywhere. It's pretty

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Speaker 1: amazing to watch her play. She's such a she's a beast.

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Speaker 1: It's always amazing to see somebody who's us at the

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Speaker 1: top of their game, whether it's sports, whether it's comedy,

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Speaker 1: whether it's whatever it is. It's so fascinating to watch

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Speaker 1: somebody WHO's at the top of their yeah, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: love it. I love the whole vibe of like tennis,

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Speaker 1: Grand Slams, like I've been to Wimbledon I think I've been.

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Speaker 1: I think that's probably it. Wimbledon and the U S

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Speaker 1: hope and I've been to but it's just such a vibe,

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Speaker 1: you know, like you can drink. You Watch sports like

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Speaker 1: it's up close. You can see everything, no matter where

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Speaker 1: you're sitting in the stadium. You're just watching the court,

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Speaker 1: you know. It's not like a concert. We have to

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Speaker 1: watch on one of these big screens. And the US

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Speaker 1: Open is the biggest one out of the Grand Slams.

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Speaker 1: It's it holds the most seats and so it's massive

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Speaker 1: and it's just it's yeah, my best friend, Bitchy, she's

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Speaker 1: my sports friends. She knows. She's always got in roads

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Speaker 1: to any sporting event, so we always get hooked up. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm having a great time and I'm and then I'm

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Speaker 1: going to see you in my Orca. Yeah, and you've

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Speaker 1: been saying all kinds of friends this week. I know

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Speaker 1: because we're making plans last week when, Oh my God,

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Speaker 1: I know. I'm looking at my calendar. I'm like, Fun,

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Speaker 1: what the Fund is this? We have a podcast recording

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Speaker 1: a two this interrupts my lunch and mushroom at day.

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Speaker 1: I was so sorry to interrupt last night, though, I

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Speaker 1: had the most romantic night by myself. I went to

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Speaker 1: first I got up and I worked out for two

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Speaker 1: hours because I shot this campaign and I had to

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Speaker 1: really get it together for well one week. That's how

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Speaker 1: I get it together, and then I just went off.

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Speaker 1: Since then, I've gained six pounds and I am just

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Speaker 1: cruising through Manhattan and I'm walking everywhere. Yesterday I met

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Speaker 1: my sister. I walked forty five minutes. I met her

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Speaker 1: for launch. Then my friend pitchy came, then I walked

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Speaker 1: all the way back and then I walked back downtown.

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Speaker 1: I got in seven twenty seven thousand steps yesterday and

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Speaker 1: my goal is just too I love New York City

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Speaker 1: for that reason. There's nowhere. I mean, I just wish

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Speaker 1: I lived in a city that was walkable, not in

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles. Los Angeles definitely is not. It's barely drivable. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but where else have you been? You've been all over

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Speaker 1: the place. Oh my gosh, I just got back from

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Speaker 1: Greece and Vancouver Island. I went from gree to Vancouver Island.

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Speaker 1: Warmed very cold, it sounds like. Yeah, well, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: very cold on Vancouver Island. Greece was beautiful. I went

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Speaker 1: to an island called left cotta, which I've never been to,

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Speaker 1: with a bunch of friends. We just got on a

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Speaker 1: boat every day and went to a different beautiful restaurant

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Speaker 1: and drank white wine and ate Greek Salads and fish,

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Speaker 1: and I could not have been happier. I actually was

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Speaker 1: able to protect my face from the sun with this

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Speaker 1: new hat I got. So it was like a Dick,

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Speaker 1: but I like at least my skin is not burned.

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Speaker 1: And Yeah, I was on vacation with lots of different

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Speaker 1: new people and some children, so you know how that goes. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I saw your instant stories with one particular who I

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Speaker 1: think was your favorite. Oh Yeah, she's my favorite. The

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Speaker 1: ones who can't really form sentences are my favorites, you know,

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Speaker 1: like I like when they're beginning to talk but they

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Speaker 1: haven't really gotten the hamstered it. Yeah, that's when they

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Speaker 1: get a full personality. Is when I start to lose issuest. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the like Gibber Jabber stage where they'll just like tell

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Speaker 1: you all about their day and total like jabbery English

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Speaker 1: is my favorite. I had this four year old girl,

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Speaker 1: Mia who was just she was so she was like

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Speaker 1: a seven year old. So it was so funny. I'd

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Speaker 1: be like, okay, let's play a game where we count

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Speaker 1: all the boats that are moving in the ocean. She's

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Speaker 1: like that sounds silly. I've got another game. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: Oh my God, she said, I don't think so. She

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Speaker 1: was just so funny, just like and this old British like.

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Speaker 1: She sounded like an old British man. She sounded like

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Speaker 1: this is doubt fire. I love that. Traveling with children

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Speaker 1: is another thing. You got us to have your own

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Speaker 1: timeline involved people. I just don't understand how people do it,

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Speaker 1: how they have so many children and then they have

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Speaker 1: to pack up their car and they have to put

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Speaker 1: in the baby viorn and their cookies and their whatever bottle,

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Speaker 1: all of it. And at every airport all you ever

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Speaker 1: see is parents taking their sippy cups and downing the

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Speaker 1: liquid in the sippy cups because the kids haven't finished it.

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Speaker 1: Like I was at Heathrow on a layover. Oh, I

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Speaker 1: was in London too. I was at Heathrow and he

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Speaker 1: throws like the strictest airport in terms of like liquids

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Speaker 1: and fluids. So basically everyone who came through just had

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Speaker 1: to sit there in front of the T S A

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Speaker 1: agent drinking their thermis because no one had, you know,

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Speaker 1: emptied out their thermis, and I'm like, how do people

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Speaker 1: not fucking know about emptying out their thermis at this point?

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Speaker 1: How do they not even doing this? For a minute now,

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Speaker 1: it's been since yes, oh my gosh. Yeah, I just

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Speaker 1: don't think I could have a kid and be the

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Speaker 1: sort of mom who like licks their kids pacifier to

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Speaker 1: clean it before giving it to them or like like parents. Man,

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Speaker 1: I have a lot of respect, but I can't do

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Speaker 1: all that gross stuff. No, no, it's all. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: too much. It's just never ending and some people make

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Speaker 1: it look easy and I respect that, because it's not easy.

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Speaker 1: Some people with many nannies. We have a very special

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Speaker 1: guest today. His name is Ethan Niedelman and he is

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Speaker 1: the former Princeton professor who built a political movement to

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Speaker 1: legalize marijuana, roll at the drug war and treat drugs

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Speaker 1: as a health issue, not a criminal one. He is

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Speaker 1: now the host of the podcast psychoactive about all things drugs,

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Speaker 1: now in a second season, and obviously I would like

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Speaker 1: to announce to all my customers this disclaimer that I

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Speaker 1: am not a doctor I play one on a podcast

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Speaker 1: that I would never ever encourage anybody to do drugs.

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Speaker 1: This isn't medical advice, this is my own personal therapy. Ethan. Hi,

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Speaker 1: it's so nice to have you. Well, it's a pleasure

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Speaker 1: to be on your show, Chelsea. I really appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: Oh well, thank you. Thanks for being here, and you

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Speaker 1: know you've spoken to Catherine before. Yeah, hi, okay, so

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Speaker 1: I know you are a huge proponent of the legalization

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Speaker 1: of marijuana and basically I mean all drug use, right,

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Speaker 1: or do you want to get specific about what drugs

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Speaker 1: you are for and what drugs you're against? Well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: let me be very specific. I mean most of my

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Speaker 1: life was about working to legalize marijuana and to end

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Speaker 1: the war on drugs. So that's where and I was

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Speaker 1: never called myself prom a want, although my personal life,

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Speaker 1: I'd say marijuana and I have had a great relationship

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Speaker 1: for a very long time. Amen to that. But when

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Speaker 1: it comes to the other drugs, you know I'm sort

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Speaker 1: of a Merril Wand and Psychedelic exceptionalist and that those

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Speaker 1: are the drugs that have been good in my life

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Speaker 1: and the other ones are not so crazy about. But

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Speaker 1: the principle that nobody should be punished for whatever drugs

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Speaker 1: they put in their body if they don't hear anybody else.

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Speaker 1: I think that's the core principle we have to remember,

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Speaker 1: so that even if you love, we love, psychedology don't

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Speaker 1: like all the other sorts of things, it doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: that other people should get punished simply for using those things. Right, absolutely.

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Speaker 1: And so what are your feeling about other sort of narcotics?

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're into psychedelics and so I assume that

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Speaker 1: encompasses all of all psychedelics. PSILOCYBIN. Well, you know, I

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Speaker 1: haven't tried all of them yet, right. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: mushrooms have been my kind of go to one for

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Speaker 1: a very long time. AYAHUASCA has been good. I've done

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Speaker 1: Mescaland once or twice I've tried a few others. I

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Speaker 1: did two CEB M Dama, not really a PSYCHEDELIC, but

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Speaker 1: that one was very nice in my life, although it

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Speaker 1: doesn't really work for me anymore. But when it comes

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Speaker 1: to the opioids, I mean no, I just think they're

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Speaker 1: useful for pain and that one needs to be very

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Speaker 1: careful when you're using them. But I do know people

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Speaker 1: who use psyche you know who use opioids and have

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Speaker 1: led very successful lives even when using them regularly. So

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Speaker 1: I'm just it's always just very important that we not

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Speaker 1: demonize other people, even for using drugs that are more

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Speaker 1: dangerous and even like cocaine. Like I've never really liked

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Speaker 1: cocaine that much. Mean for me like having cocaine. It's

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Speaker 1: like drinking too much coffee and having post nasal drip right.

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Speaker 1: So it's never been a thing for me. I have

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Speaker 1: friends who love cocaine. I've had friends who got in

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Speaker 1: trouble with cocaine. I've had friends who just play with it.

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Speaker 1: So I'm not a big Fan. I don't think it

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Speaker 1: brings out the best in people. You know, I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: want people I really care about getting into cocaine too much,

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Speaker 1: but it still means I don't like the law of

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Speaker 1: punishing anybody for using that stuff. M So, when you

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Speaker 1: said you used M D m a but it stopped

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Speaker 1: working for you, what do you mean by that, because

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Speaker 1: I've heard that before from people. Well, I'll tell you.

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Speaker 1: I mean. You know, Chelsea, when I first started using

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Speaker 1: early thirties, it was in the context of my divorce.

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Speaker 1: I think it helped us land up on a softer

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Speaker 1: landing and I've used it in romantic relationships since in

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Speaker 1: my thirties and forties and it was good with friends

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Speaker 1: and I've been to raise but around I'm now sixty five,

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Speaker 1: around the time I hit my early fifties, I found

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Speaker 1: that the upside started waning and the downside started increasing

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Speaker 1: and I started having the feeling like my body was

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Speaker 1: telling me, don't put this in you, and so I

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Speaker 1: really miss it. I mean it was it served a

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Speaker 1: valuable purpose for me in terms, especially in romantic relationships,

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Speaker 1: in terms of being able to deal with issues and

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Speaker 1: have communications and otherwise difficult to do. Yeah, that's true.

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Speaker 1: It is helpful in relationships if you can have conversations,

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Speaker 1: important conversations, right. Have you used it in that way? No,

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Speaker 1: I haven't. I've only used it, and I mean that's

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Speaker 1: a good idea, though. I've only used it to like

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Speaker 1: have a good time, you know, M D M a.

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Speaker 1: That is, but no, I haven't. I'd recommend it. I

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Speaker 1: mean it's just because it gives people the ability both

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Speaker 1: to listen it more deeply than they normally worried, dissolves

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Speaker 1: the defenses, and also to speak in a way that's

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Speaker 1: more and pathic in a way. And so I think

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Speaker 1: you know when it was first kind of when it's

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Speaker 1: uses were first kind of rediscovered, the seventies, it was

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Speaker 1: known as the couple's therapy drug and it was most

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Speaker 1: famous for that type of use. And now, when we

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Speaker 1: see it emerging for use with respect to PTSD and

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Speaker 1: things like that, it really has a very valuable role

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Speaker 1: to play. So I strongly encourage it. As long as

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Speaker 1: it worked well for you. I should also say that

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Speaker 1: I think when it comes to stopping, I know a

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Speaker 1: lot more guys who says it doesn't work for me anymore,

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Speaker 1: whereas women seem to get this is no no research

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Speaker 1: on this, just impressionistic. Women seem to get more value

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Speaker 1: of it for a longer time. Interesting. And what about

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Speaker 1: tell me a little bit about mescaline. I've never had

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Speaker 1: any experience with mescaline either. I don't think so. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, you can get it in the refined version,

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Speaker 1: which is the way I did it. That other two

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Speaker 1: ways is it comes from the Peyote Cactus, which is

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Speaker 1: the one that's used in indigenous ceremonies, native American church.

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Speaker 1: And now people are mostly people are being discouraged from

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Speaker 1: using payote because there's a limited apply and you don't

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Speaker 1: want to deprive native American church members and indigenous peoples

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Speaker 1: of having access to it. But there's a plant called

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Speaker 1: San Pedro which is also a source of Mescalin. So

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Speaker 1: I would say I did it. The one time I

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Speaker 1: did it I found that a lot like a mushroom experience.

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Speaker 1: It can be maybe a little bit longer. It was

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Speaker 1: before the invention of LSD in the forties or just

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Speaker 1: you know, a creation of LSD in the forties. It

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Speaker 1: was the most popular of the psychedelics. Like I just

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Speaker 1: interviewed somebody on my podcasts, like go active Mike J

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Speaker 1: wrote a wonderful history of this whole thing. Michael Pollen,

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Speaker 1: who has written that wonderful book changed and how to

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Speaker 1: change your mind about psychedelics. He has a new book

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Speaker 1: where he talks about his mescaline news. So I would

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Speaker 1: say it's worth trying. Some people may prefer it to

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Speaker 1: LSD or two mushrooms. I don't think it's radically different though. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so it's in that same family. And what about your experience?

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Speaker 1: You said Iowaska. Have you done that multiple times? You know,

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Speaker 1: I did it for the first time about twenty years ago.

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Speaker 1: I had a great experience. Then I did it a

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Speaker 1: few years later in the context of a religious ceremony,

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Speaker 1: something the Brazilian church called Santo dime, although I did

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Speaker 1: it in a loft in New York, but in that modality.

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Speaker 1: And then since that time I haven't really done the

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Speaker 1: full blowing ones. I've been at gatherings with a sort

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Speaker 1: of guide where they have low dose Ayahuasca mixed in

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Speaker 1: with other things. I've never gone down all South America

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Speaker 1: to do it in the jungle. I saw you did

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Speaker 1: that for the TV show you did on Netflix. I

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Speaker 1: know a lot of people have done it that way.

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Speaker 1: So it's not been a drug I've gone back to

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Speaker 1: many times, although I would definitely do it again. I

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Speaker 1: would definitely do it again. You know, I'm one of

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Speaker 1: the few people, like most people, throw up when they

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Speaker 1: do it, you know, and you're supposed to throw up

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Speaker 1: because it helps to purge, but I didn't throw up.

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Speaker 1: I didn't throw up either. Oh No, I did throw up. Sorry,

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Speaker 1: I did. Yeah, I thought you were talking about the

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Speaker 1: other outlet, because they say you can sometimes, you know,

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Speaker 1: go to the back to with respect to that second time,

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Speaker 1: I did it. Nothing happened during the ceremony, but in

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Speaker 1: the following days that other outlet was quite active. Oh well,

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Speaker 1: that's good to know. Thank you for filling me in. Yeah, sure.

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Speaker 1: Do you find age at all to be a prohibitor

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Speaker 1: in any of these drugs we're talking about? You don't.

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you I think. First of as I say,

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Speaker 1: as I've got an older m DMA is not really

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Speaker 1: doing it for me. Marijuana continues to be my friend

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Speaker 1: after all these years. I think if you don't have

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Speaker 1: issues like, for example, I don't have any. I'm very

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Speaker 1: healthy for my age, so I don't worry about cardiovasculate issues.

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Speaker 1: If you feel vulnerable Cardiovastro Y, you have to be

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Speaker 1: careful with taking a drug that could really, you know,

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Speaker 1: get your heart going in a serious way. I've never

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Speaker 1: been on antidepressants, but if you are, you know you

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Speaker 1: can't be an antidepressants and be doing Ayahuasca because, as

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Speaker 1: I've got, a toxic combination like. One thing I've gotten

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Speaker 1: into in recent years is doing LSD, not at the

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Speaker 1: macro dose, with the heroic dose, the big dose, and

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Speaker 1: and not so much at the micro dose, the five

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Speaker 1: or ten micrograms, but doing what I would call a

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Speaker 1: mini dose of like twenty or thirty micrograms, which is

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Speaker 1: enough to make you feel you're under the influence of something,

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Speaker 1: but you're not really having any visions, you're not way

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Speaker 1: out there, and I will say that the following day

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Speaker 1: I just feel exhausted and I think that maybe aging,

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Speaker 1: but you know, there are people who just keep doing

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Speaker 1: it into their eighties and older. I mean my view

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Speaker 1: on the psychedelics has always been there kind of wasted

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Speaker 1: on the young, and I tend to think about them.

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Speaker 1: I let's give it. Gave a speech and I said,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think about doing psychedelics the way I

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Speaker 1: think about Ya'm keep poor. You know, I'm Jewish. I

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Speaker 1: grew up religious. Right now and not that religious, but

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Speaker 1: you know, once a year yon't keep poor fast, twenty

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Speaker 1: five hours, no food, no water, because I think it's

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Speaker 1: a good thing for getting more in touch with that

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Speaker 1: spiritual side. And I think the same thing with psychedelics

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Speaker 1: that a lot of times people, you know, in the forties, fifties, sixties,

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Speaker 1: seventy say, Oh, I did that when I was young.

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Speaker 1: But my view is this a good thing to keep

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Speaker 1: coming back to at least once a year. It's a

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Speaker 1: it's good for stirring up the emotional sediment, the psychological

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Speaker 1: sediment that builds up as we get older, and I

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Speaker 1: think the reason that people get scared of it when

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Speaker 1: they get older is because it does mean to ring

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Speaker 1: up that emotional sentiment. It does mean coming to grips

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Speaker 1: with things, compromises you made in life, things you've had

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Speaker 1: to settle for. But I actually think it's a healthy thing, spiritually,

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Speaker 1: emotionally and probably even physically, to keep doing it as

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Speaker 1: long as one feels physically able. Wow, well, that's great.

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Speaker 1: I love to hear that because I always feel like you,

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Speaker 1: at a certain point you have to stop the drugs,

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Speaker 1: and I think what you're saying is quite the opposite.

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Speaker 1: As long as you're continually evolving and exploring, there's no

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Speaker 1: reason to stop unless you know you have some health limitations.

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Speaker 1: Exactly exactly, and I seem to try to overcome those

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Speaker 1: fears that happen as we get over. So many of

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Speaker 1: my friends who used to do it with me back

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Speaker 1: in the day now they're worried about it. They're scared

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Speaker 1: about it, although the truth being that with all the

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Speaker 1: same able media about psychedelics. Now, with Michael Collin's book

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Speaker 1: and all the other sorts of things, more and more

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Speaker 1: people are expressing interest in doing it who either haven't

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Speaker 1: done it in many decades or never did it, and

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Speaker 1: I think that's an encouraging sign. You know, I mean

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Speaker 1: even with marijuana, if you think about it, I remember

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Speaker 1: when we started legal marijuana, first for medical and then

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Speaker 1: more broadly in the various states with all the ballot initiatives,

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Speaker 1: and people would say you just you watch, adolescent use

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Speaker 1: is gonna Skyrocket, and my response to them would be,

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Speaker 1: I don't think so, because teenagers already have easy availability

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Speaker 1: in marijuana and we're not legalizing it for them. So

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Speaker 1: why is it gonna go up so much? And I

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Speaker 1: said the real increase in use is gonna be among

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Speaker 1: people in their fifties, sixties, seventies, eighties and nineties. And

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you. You know, five, ten years since we

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Speaker 1: started legalizing marijuana or in states around the country, there's

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Speaker 1: been virtually no jump in adolescent marijuana use, which would

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Speaker 1: be something you'd worry about. But meanwhile among people like

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Speaker 1: you know, people in their sixties seventies, there like a

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Speaker 1: quadrupling of us because people are finding it valuable. They're

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Speaker 1: finding it, you know, that they find they prefer to alcohol,

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Speaker 1: they find it helps with sleep or aches and pains,

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Speaker 1: or or maybe it helps to spice up a sexual

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Speaker 1: relationship with the person you've been married to for decades, right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's got all these sorts of benefits, and

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Speaker 1: so I think the benefits of psychoactive us and especially

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Speaker 1: on it's like cannabis and Psychedelics, I think they're underestimated

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Speaker 1: in terms of being positively connected with healthy aging. Do

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Speaker 1: you think that the dosage is important, as you aged?

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Speaker 1: I mean because the micro docing is really what everybody's

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Speaker 1: on about now, and guided journeys with whatever drug of choice,

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Speaker 1: whether it's a micro dose of LSD or Psilocybin or ketamine.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that that has an impact? Well, it's

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Speaker 1: so hard to know. I mean with micro docing, some

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Speaker 1: people have claimed it's little more than a placebo and

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Speaker 1: other people have claimed released significant benefit from microdocing. Usually

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Speaker 1: means taking between a tenth to the Twentie of the

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Speaker 1: dose that would normally result in a psychedelic trip, and

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Speaker 1: so I would say the microdocing thing is worth trying.

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Speaker 1: It does not appear to be much risk associated with it,

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Speaker 1: although there's not long term studies on it, and that

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Speaker 1: can evolve. Doing it with LSD, with mushrooms, it can

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Speaker 1: even be done with Ayahuasco or even with I've even

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Speaker 1: heard about microdocing Iby game, which is a very powerful

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Speaker 1: psychedelic out of West Africa from the Aboga plant that,

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Speaker 1: you know, people have found great results in curing addiction.

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Speaker 1: But I'm a little scared to try with marijuana. Some

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Speaker 1: people find that as they get older that the brain

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Speaker 1: changes in a way and so that you need less

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Speaker 1: to get high. So I think it's a matter of

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Speaker 1: just being attentive to what works and and look hood

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Speaker 1: for people use it differently. I know people. I know people, Billionaires,

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Speaker 1: enormously successful people. Every night, you know, they'll take a

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Speaker 1: couple of puffs off a joint, watch late night TV

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Speaker 1: and go to sleep, and they've been doing that for decades.

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Speaker 1: I know brilliant academics and intellectuals who've been using marijuana,

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Speaker 1: including for creative purposes. In my case, I don't do

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Speaker 1: marijuana daily, you know. I smoke it periodically with friends

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Speaker 1: or my partner or something like that, and and then edible.

423
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:54,199
Speaker 1: I'm getting into edibles more frequently. In fact, for me,

424
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,600
Speaker 1: part of my healthy aging process is once a week

425
00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:59,840
Speaker 1: when I'm in New York, I take ten doll of

426
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,400
Speaker 1: ams of edible thhc, usually in a nice chocolate bar,

427
00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:06,040
Speaker 1: grab my headphones and I go down and get a

428
00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:10,360
Speaker 1: multi hour massage and I'm just floating and Mari Wanta

429
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:13,280
Speaker 1: helps me get into my body. So I think it's

430
00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,760
Speaker 1: actually when you're using any psychoactive drugs, the key thing

431
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,880
Speaker 1: is to be using it consciously, not to be using

432
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:23,320
Speaker 1: it unconsciously and not to just be using it habitually

433
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:25,520
Speaker 1: and not to be using it just in his escapest

434
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:28,240
Speaker 1: way is to use it consciously, to say this is

435
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,600
Speaker 1: a moment or a thing I'm doing where I think

436
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:34,359
Speaker 1: actually using this substance when hands what I'm intending to

437
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,600
Speaker 1: do or wanting to do right now. The circling back

438
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:39,720
Speaker 1: real quick to your m d m a experience with

439
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,479
Speaker 1: your ex wife. You said that that helps with issues

440
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,960
Speaker 1: in your marriage to have conversations while taking that. I

441
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,840
Speaker 1: have heard that before, but not really the way that

442
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:52,200
Speaker 1: you said it, because the dosage would have an impact

443
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,040
Speaker 1: on your being able to actually have a conversation like

444
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,920
Speaker 1: that in a serious nature, right, rather than just not

445
00:21:57,920 --> 00:21:59,920
Speaker 1: not really chose, because you know, with M D M

446
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 1: May is pretty standard that people will do between a

447
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 1: hundred and a hundred fifty milligrams. And so when you're

448
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,000
Speaker 1: doing M D M A, you know nobody's hallucinating. It's

449
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,840
Speaker 1: not a psychedelic experience they call the drug. Used to

450
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 1: be called it in pathoging because it helps to open

451
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 1: up your heart. In fact, at some point the nickname

452
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 1: was originally gonna be like something like empathy, but people realize,

453
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:22,400
Speaker 1: you know, who wants to market a druggle empathy? There's

454
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,879
Speaker 1: not a big market for empathy. Let's call it ecstasy,

455
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 1: and so ecstasy became the nickname for M D M a.

456
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:29,159
Speaker 1: But I think the key thing is that when the

457
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,359
Speaker 1: drug comes on and it's two people and you're in

458
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:37,440
Speaker 1: a relationship, the ability to process stuff, to process things

459
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 1: that have been bugging one or the other, to talk

460
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 1: about them in a respectful way, an empathic way. It

461
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 1: basically causes defenses to melt in a way, and I

462
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,160
Speaker 1: think that's it's great with with with my ex wife,

463
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,439
Speaker 1: you know, we were in a very difficult spot, but

464
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 1: we did it together and we're able to talk and

465
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,680
Speaker 1: we actually thought for a while, as did our marriage

466
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 1: counselor that Oh my God, our marriage is gonna be

467
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 1: saved here. And in the end, you know, it wasn't enough,

468
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 1: but I do think we landed up with a safer

469
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 1: landing and became wonderful co parents and friends thereafter and

470
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 1: subsequent relationships. You know, it was, it's always been valuable

471
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,399
Speaker 1: in terms of dealing with the stuff that builds begins

472
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 1: to build up in a relationship, that that needs to

473
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 1: get processed, that needs to get talked about. So I

474
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 1: think just being there quiet place, have that conversation and,

475
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,639
Speaker 1: while you're in the conversation, remembering that it's not the

476
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 1: kind of drug you can keep using over and over

477
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 1: and over and over over again. If the idea is

478
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:37,160
Speaker 1: to as you're doing it and as you're having this heartfelt, honest,

479
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:41,119
Speaker 1: understanding and pathet conversation, to be thinking about ways in

480
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 1: which you can get back to that spot the next

481
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,159
Speaker 1: day and the next week and the next month without

482
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 1: having to use the drug repeatedly. Right, it's good to

483
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,880
Speaker 1: come back and use it occasionally. I'm talking about using

484
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 1: it three or four or five times a year, not

485
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,160
Speaker 1: using it weekly, and never mind daily or something like that,

486
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:01,680
Speaker 1: and it kind of deplete you right of your Serotonin.

487
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 1: If you think about you know PROZAC, they both act

488
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 1: on the Serotonin level. That essentially PROZAC is a mattress

489
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 1: and M D M A is a trampoline. And so

490
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,880
Speaker 1: oftentimes the next day people can feel a bit depleted,

491
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:17,399
Speaker 1: although I'll tell you, the first time I did it,

492
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:19,640
Speaker 1: I felt great the next day. Yeah, I always feel

493
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:21,680
Speaker 1: it the next day in my system, in a good way,

494
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 1: not a bad way, in a good way. Yeah, so

495
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,679
Speaker 1: that's that's great. That's great. I think. If I have

496
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 1: found this is just, once again, anecdotal, when I would

497
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 1: do with friends and the next day we all jump

498
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 1: on the plane's to go back home. I noticed that

499
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 1: a surprising number as we get a cold and we

500
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 1: get thick in the following days. So I think it's

501
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 1: it's good to understand that your system M to maybe

502
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 1: somewhat compromised the following day and just take it easy

503
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 1: and like oft time telling you that people don't do

504
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 1: it on a Sunday, do it on a Saturday. Make

505
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 1: sure you have a day to take off between the

506
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,120
Speaker 1: day you take it and the day you're back and work,

507
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 1: because what I find is that it melts your defenses

508
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 1: and the defenses don't just jump right back up. So

509
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,640
Speaker 1: to throw yourself right back into work the next day

510
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 1: when your defenses are still kind of down, you know,

511
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 1: and ships flying at you in the work environment, you're

512
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 1: not quite ready to deal with it. You need that

513
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 1: recovery time, that at least a day of recovery time

514
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 1: after you do it. Yeah, and also it's good to

515
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 1: take be twelve before doing it and after doing it

516
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 1: to help with that kind of they call it like

517
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 1: suicide Tuesday. It's not suicide. Right, suicide? I don't know.

518
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:28,959
Speaker 1: It's usually two days after you take it that some

519
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 1: people can have like a depressive episode. Right. This doesn't

520
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 1: happen to everybody, but people can. It can happen. So

521
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: it's always good to take B twelve. Okay. Well, Ethan,

522
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: we're excited you're here today. We have a show where

523
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 1: we have people call in for advice. So you're going

524
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 1: to be our guest and Katherine's going to give us

525
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: the low down. But first we're going to take a break, right, Catherine? Yeah,

526
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 1: we're gonna take a quick break for an ad and

527
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 1: we'll be right back with some colors. Okay, and we're

528
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 1: back pastic. Well, we have really just all drug questions today.

529
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 1: So what a nice what a nice episode this is

530
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 1: going to be. It feels so warm and fuzzy. Yes,

531
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: I mean, I do have to I do have to

532
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 1: preface this with I am a baby drug user. I

533
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 1: have not really tried a whole lot of things. Haven't

534
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 1: tried mushrooms that sort of thing. Have minimally tried marijuana.

535
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 1: Just wait till you come to my Katherine. Don't worry,

536
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 1: just wait. You have so much to look forward and

537
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 1: with N D N A I'm oftentimes most envious. I

538
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:33,919
Speaker 1: call them the N D M A virgins because if

539
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: you've never done it before, the first time is oftentimes

540
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: the best ever. So I'm kind of excited. I do

541
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 1: have to say I won the second place prize in

542
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 1: the dare essay writing competition in fifth grade, but second

543
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 1: place was better than first place because she got like

544
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:51,679
Speaker 1: a tour of the police department and I got a

545
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 1: pizza party. So yeah, seriously, hello, prizes are in the

546
00:26:56,040 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 1: long order for that contest. Exactly, exactly. So our first

547
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 1: question comes from Jamie. She says Chelsea, you were talking

548
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 1: about cbd today when I was listening to Glennon's episode.

549
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 1: I've tried many CBD products and I don't ever feel

550
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 1: any effect. Can you recommend a specific amount or brand

551
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,880
Speaker 1: so I can feel the effects? I try to pop

552
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 1: Brownie ones and it threw me into a terrible panic attack.

553
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:21,680
Speaker 1: I don't want to feel bad again. I just want

554
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: to feel calm and sleep. Thanks, Jamie. Well, CBD. If

555
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: you're not feeling anything, I would say not to be

556
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: opposed to adding a little th HC ratio to it.

557
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,360
Speaker 1: I mean if you're taking C I don't really feel

558
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: CBD when I take that by itself either. I'd usually

559
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,919
Speaker 1: take that for when I'm skiing, for pain management for

560
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 1: my knee. But I would say to throw in a

561
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 1: little th HC, like you don't you know? It could

562
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: be like two point five milligrams of th HC against

563
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,160
Speaker 1: a higher percentage or higher ratio of CB D for

564
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 1: a little bit more of a buzz to help you

565
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 1: so you can actually feel it without overdoing it. Ethan,

566
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts on this matter? Yeah, I really no,

567
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 1: I mean I do do CBD. All this stuff about

568
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,679
Speaker 1: the rub bombs and this and that and it drops.

569
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,880
Speaker 1: There's not a lot of evidence out there about how

570
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 1: using it in that form is actually helpful and it's

571
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 1: usually not psychoactive. There are studies that show that CBD

572
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 1: has been helpful in some very serious medical conditions, but

573
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: a lot of it's been hype. It's hard to say.

574
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,360
Speaker 1: Now there is a website out there called project CBD,

575
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 1: a guy named Martin Lee who I think it's one

576
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 1: of the most honorable you know. I don't think he's

577
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 1: taken money from anyone company to promote one or the other.

578
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 1: So I keep your eye on that project CBD website

579
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: and they may provide some guidance about what are the

580
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: more reliable or less reliable both brands and ways of

581
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 1: taking it or not taking it. The idea that Chelsea

582
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 1: said about combining it with T hd and small amounts.

583
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the plant produces the marijuana plant

584
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 1: produces both th HC and CBD, and so that's why

585
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: you see a lot of the edibles. Sometimes we'll have

586
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: a t HC CBD combination. I think it's generally a

587
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 1: good idea to use th HC with some CBD. Sometimes

588
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: people have issues the marijuana an anxiety may find that

589
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 1: if you're using thhd with no CBD in it, it

590
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 1: may exacerbate the anxiety because CBD is supposed to be

591
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: an anti anxiety drug. So I'd say no fantastic information

592
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 1: out there, but you can dig around and try to

593
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: use the drugs in combination. And what's the name of

594
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: that website again? I think it's called project CBD, or

595
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 1: just Google Martin Lee CBD, which is what I just did. Yeah,

596
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 1: you know, I like the idea of combining it. There

597
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 1: was a time when I was using a lot of CBD.

598
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 1: I also didn't really feel anything. But Brad, my husband,

599
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: and I went to the beach and I had been

600
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: using like a CBD vape pretty heavily that day and

601
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 1: we decided like okay, we're gonna like take a couple

602
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: of hits of this very strong joint that we got

603
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: as a as a wedding favor at my brother Ethan's wedding,

604
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: and we both took one hit and we're just I mean,

605
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 1: it was beyond it was way too much. It was super,

606
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: super strong and usually when I have too much marijuana

607
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 1: I get very like unhappy panicky. It activates all that

608
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: stuff for me, but since I'd had so much cbd,

609
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: I was very calm, even though I was like, I'm

610
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: way more stone than I want to meet, but it

611
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: really helps from that perspective of like just gave me

612
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 1: a chill time. Hm. That makes sense. You know, a

613
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 1: lot of times a lot of people have issues with

614
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: anxiety and marijuana. I think a lot of them I

615
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: find that the first time they did marijuana, they did

616
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 1: it in a social environment, oftentimes with people they were

617
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: not necessarily that comfortable with, and so I think the

618
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 1: best way to deal with that is when you're using marijuana,

619
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: either to overcome that fear of anxiety or using it

620
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 1: for the first time, try to do in a place

621
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 1: where you're either if either by yourself or with your

622
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: lover or close friends, where you're really comfortable, where there's

623
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: nobody you have to be on with, nobody you had

624
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: issues with, and, if possible, do it not in like

625
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 1: the same place, like the TV room or whatever, but

626
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 1: trying to find a nice place outside, you know, whether

627
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: it's the woods or a lake or something that's not

628
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 1: your normal, you know, sitting environment. Just alter it a bit. Well,

629
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 1: our next question comes from Michelle. Michelle says Dear Chelsea,

630
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: I'm going on a camping trip this month with my

631
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 1: husband and two other couples. We all plan on doing

632
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,479
Speaker 1: mushrooms together. The other couples do this yearly and are

633
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 1: inviting us for the first time, I don't have much

634
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 1: experience with drugs. I smoked weed a bit in my

635
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: early twenties and I've done coke once. I'm a little

636
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 1: nervous of the possibility of a quote bad trip. I

637
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 1: feel extremely safe with my friends and I know they'll

638
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: guide me through the experience. I'm mostly nervous about my husband.

639
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 1: He's very experienced with drugs, although he has never done mushrooms.

640
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 1: But my main worry is his reaction if I do

641
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: have a bad trip. He would prefer me not to

642
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 1: partake and I'm scared that my fear of his reaction

643
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: could make me have a negative experience. What's your advice

644
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 1: to have an enjoyable experience for my first time? Michelle,

645
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 1: Hi Michelle, I think first off you have to stop

646
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: telling yourself you're not going to have a good experience,

647
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 1: because that's like a self fulfilling prophecy. You have to

648
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 1: go into drugs always like you're using the drug. The

649
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: drug is not using you. That's how I feel about

650
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: any time I take drug. Anytime I'm not in control

651
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: of the situation, is when I'm not in control of

652
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 1: the situation. So I would just say to do you know,

653
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: if you're worried about your experience, just do half of

654
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: what everybody's doing and you're gonna have a good time.

655
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 1: Mushrooms make you laugh, they make you relax. They you

656
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: will be probably laughing the hardest you've ever laughed in

657
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 1: your life. That's usually what happens to people the first

658
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: time they do mushrooms. Ethan, what has you've been your

659
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: experience with people who have bad trips on mushrooms? I mean,

660
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 1: so I think your advice to Michelle is right on.

661
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 1: The other thing I would tend to say is that

662
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 1: Michelle and her husband should have a conversation beforehand and

663
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: maybe with their friends there. Just say listen. I want

664
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: you to know, dear husband, that if I need some

665
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 1: help during this, I'm not expecting you to be there.

666
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: Please don't worry about me and have one of the friends,

667
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 1: saying we're in charge here, say to the husband you

668
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: can relax if you're having your own good trip, bad trip,

669
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: don't feel an obligation. You want to be together, be together,

670
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 1: but don't get into a mode of needing this for

671
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 1: one of the other and we, the friends, are here

672
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: to help in that and thereby take the pressure. So if,

673
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 1: for example, it does you're right, it's highly unlikely to

674
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 1: go in the wrong direction. But if it does that,

675
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: the husband's not gonna feel guilty for not being president's

676
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 1: having the friends there the host. They're saying, we got this,

677
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 1: you relax. When she's a little better, you guys can

678
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 1: be together, something along those lines. Yeah, and just for

679
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 1: the record, I know this is I mean, I don't

680
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 1: speak for the entire universe, even though I'd like to.

681
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 1: I would like to say that I've never been around

682
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: anybody who had a bad trip on mushrooms, and I

683
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 1: do them all the time. I've done them with dozens

684
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: of times. I did have two trips that I would

685
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 1: regard as that. We went into a very dark place

686
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 1: um where I just began to feel enormously depressed and

687
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: I used two different approaches to deal with it the

688
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: first time and it felt a little bit light cheating.

689
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 1: was that when into when it went into a very

690
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: dark place, I had some m d m a around,

691
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 1: you know ecstasy, and I just took a little m

692
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 1: D M A and just lifted it up into a

693
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,479
Speaker 1: beautiful place again. It's one reason why sometimes people can

694
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 1: buy mushrooms in M D M A, because it both

695
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: enhances the possibility will go into a beautiful spot and

696
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: it minimizes the chance I'll go into a dark spot.

697
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 1: Now the other way to do it and the real

698
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 1: possibility that it goes into a dark place, and this

699
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 1: I remember. I was doing it with my partner, were

700
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: to beat and it went into a very dark place.

701
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 1: Everything felt black and dark and crumbling and dying and

702
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: all this sort of stuff. And you can't. The thing is,

703
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 1: you cannot run away from a bad trip. You can't

704
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 1: run away from it, and so what I did was

705
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 1: I almost envisioned that darkness of the bad trip is

706
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 1: like a huge wave and you know, when you swimming

707
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: in the ocean and then you see also a big

708
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 1: wave coming, you can't run from it because then you'll

709
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 1: get you know, crash on you, you'll tumbling, you might

710
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 1: hurt yourself. The only choice when a big wave is

711
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,959
Speaker 1: coming is to dive into it, dive underneath it, dive

712
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 1: through it, and so I practically, like musically, almost dived

713
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 1: into the sand, but, like you know, I mean you

714
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 1: know literally in a way, or you know or metaphorically

715
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 1: what it was, into the way of the darkness and

716
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,720
Speaker 1: I kind of came out of it. I came out

717
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 1: of it and all of the sun things just lifted

718
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 1: and it became this magnificent trip for the rest of it.

719
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 1: So I would say you're right to tell her don't

720
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 1: worry about the bad one. It's highly unlikely. You have

721
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 1: friends around who can take care of you. Don't worry

722
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 1: about your husband's reaction. If it does go in a

723
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,879
Speaker 1: dark place, there are ways to deal with it and

724
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 1: whatever case, even if it is dark, you're going to

725
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 1: get better in a few hours and you'll be fine

726
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,399
Speaker 1: the next day. And many times people say they find

727
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,800
Speaker 1: that even going into a dark place on mushrooms are Ayahuasca,

728
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 1: they may go through a terrifying place, especially with Ayahuasca,

729
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 1: and then the next day they said, my God, that

730
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 1: was the most magnificent experience in my life because of

731
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: how much I've learned, how much I've benefited. Yeah, so

732
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 1: I would just say to lower the dosage compared to

733
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,399
Speaker 1: what your friends are taking, you know, just for you

734
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: in the beginning. Just take half so that you're not

735
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 1: going to be, you know, out of control, and then,

736
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 1: if you like it, you can take more. Yes, Great. Well,

737
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 1: we have our first caller of the day today. This

738
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 1: is Annie. Annie says, Dear Chelsea, I was diagnosed with

739
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 1: complex PTSD about fifteen years ago, but I've struggled with

740
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,959
Speaker 1: it for over twenty years. I've tried many different forms

741
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 1: of therapies, medications and THHC, which have helped some, but

742
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 1: never completely. My symptoms have become much worse during the

743
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 1: last few years, with running from fires in California, Covid

744
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 1: and just the general ship show that is our world.

745
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:34,839
Speaker 1: I'm now struggling to leave the house and I've been

746
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,240
Speaker 1: isolating myself to an extreme. I'm pretty sure I'm bordering

747
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 1: on Agoraphobia. Even my work zooms have become a source

748
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 1: of anxiety. I'm planning to email my doctor to talk

749
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 1: to him about some Beta blockers to help with the

750
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 1: short term issues. I heard you talk about this on

751
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 1: your show the other day and I have never tried

752
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 1: them before. My question to you is I'm considering some

753
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 1: alternative treatments, including micro dosing Psilocybin, m D M A

754
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 1: or therapeutic. I mean, I've read that in some instances

755
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 1: they are curing ptsd with these treatments, which I had

756
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: been told would never be possible. I'd rather try Psilocybin,

757
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 1: but that seems less legal at the moment and harder

758
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 1: to come by. I feel lost in trying to figure

759
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 1: out who to talk to about this. My doctor is

760
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 1: pretty judgmental and I would never bring this up to him.

761
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: Do you have any advice on resources to learn more

762
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 1: about these types of treatments? I've obviously googled it, but

763
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 1: I'm not sure who to trust. I can't be the

764
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 1: only one whose symptoms have become much worse during this

765
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 1: covid apocalypse time. Thank you both for doing what you do.

766
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 1: Your show has been a great source of comfort and

767
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 1: much needed laughter. Annie. Hi, Annie, Annie H that's Ethan.

768
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 1: He's our guest today. I'm so sorry that you're dealing

769
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:48,319
Speaker 1: with this, Annie. Oh, thank you, but just know that

770
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 1: this is temporary. You're not going to feel like this

771
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 1: forever and you're not alone. So many people feel like

772
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 1: this after covid and have anxiety, and you know there

773
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 1: are ways to fix it. But Ethan, do you want

774
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: to start with some resources, because you're probably the man

775
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 1: for that. Just a few things, I mean. First of all,

776
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 1: I think when it comes to micro dozing with mushrooms

777
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 1: or something like that, if you can get a hold

778
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 1: of them, even just, you know, not even pure philocide mushrooms,

779
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,879
Speaker 1: there's relatively little risk with doing that at a very,

780
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,360
Speaker 1: very low level. I mean, maybe it helps, maybe not,

781
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 1: if there's not much evidence one it. I think the

782
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 1: place I'd start is with Ketamine, because ketamine is legal,

783
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,879
Speaker 1: and I think the first place I probably the godfather

784
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 1: of ketamine assisted psychotherapy, as a fellow named Phil Wilson

785
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 1: up in Marin County in California and he's got a

786
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 1: whole bunch of websites. So just Google and Phil Wilson

787
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: and Kennamine. One of his top proteges is a doctor

788
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: in the New York area, Gita Bade. I actually interviewed

789
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,399
Speaker 1: her on my podcast psychoactive not long ago and she

790
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,720
Speaker 1: speaks about the art of doing psychotherapy assisted by Ken Amine.

791
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 1: And because that's legal, it's going to be easier to

792
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: access the challenges, to find the best therapists and I

793
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 1: think starting up with Phil Wilson, is a way to go.

794
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 1: Now M D M A is probably gonna get approved

795
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 1: by the food and Rug Administration, the FDA, sometime later

796
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: this year, next year for treatment of PTSD. So there

797
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 1: are already research programs. They're emitting patients. So if you

798
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 1: just Google Ptsd, m D M A, psychedelic therapists, something

799
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:17,280
Speaker 1: like that, you'll probably see people popping up. The organization maps,

800
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 1: which is the multi disapine associated psychological studies, has been

801
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 1: the one driving this process for with the FDA and

802
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 1: they're training people all around the country to be therapists.

803
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 1: So that's probably the other place I would look. And

804
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 1: once you start nosing around, then people will start to

805
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 1: recommend to you therapists who are using m d m

806
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:40,319
Speaker 1: a assistant psychotherapy, not fully legally yet, but where it's

807
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 1: becoming more and more common. Okay, thank you. Do you know?

808
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 1: Have you heard of maps? Annie, I have heard of maps.

809
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 1: I've done some reading about it. I just yeah, it

810
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like it was widely available yet. So well,

811
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: they basically have research programs now. So sometimes if you

812
00:39:57,680 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 1: can still get into one of those, but once you

813
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 1: start are calling around, people will let you know about

814
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 1: psychotherapists who are providing this sort of help, either using

815
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 1: psilocybin or m D M A, but starting off with

816
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 1: Ketamine simply because it's legal. Just finding the right therapist,

817
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 1: I think, really is the way to go. Okay, perfect,

818
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 1: thank you. And what state are you in? Annie? I'm

819
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 1: in California. Oh okay, well, that's easy to find in California.

820
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 1: Guided Kenemie trips. I have a few friends that are

821
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 1: doing that. Oh okay, I didn't know that that was

822
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 1: really a thing here. I've seen it like in southern California,

823
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 1: but I'm in northern California. Phill Wilson is right up

824
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,320
Speaker 1: in Marin and he's the godfather of Kenemine, so definitely

825
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 1: check out his website and see what you can find

826
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 1: out there. Okay, great, thank you. Yeah, and you know,

827
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 1: try and in the meantime Beta blockers, if you get

828
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 1: those prescription. That's a short term solution, but it also

829
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:52,240
Speaker 1: does kind of the neuropathways. It changes those. In my experience,

830
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 1: I've taken Beta blockers and you don't have to take

831
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:55,839
Speaker 1: them all the time. You take them and it kind

832
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 1: of sets up a new pattern of thoughts so that

833
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 1: you don't get that nervous energy. I do look at

834
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 1: it as a short term solution. I think that the

835
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 1: Ketamine and everything else is a deeper, more spiritual solution to,

836
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:08,720
Speaker 1: you know, the anxiety and the discomfort you're feeling. Yeah,

837
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:12,240
Speaker 1: there's also a brilliant doctor writer, think her, named Julie Holland,

838
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 1: who talks a lot about this stuff. So just Google

839
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,760
Speaker 1: Julie Holland and I think you'll come across an interesting

840
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 1: information as well. Thank you. Okay, Annie, take care. Let

841
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 1: let us know how it go. Yeah, let us know

842
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: how it goes. Okay, well, thank you so much. Sure.

843
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 1: All right. Well, our next question comes from Katie. Katie

844
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 1: asks dear Chelsea, on the show, I heard you talking

845
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 1: about micro dosing chocolate mushrooms. I'm an elementary school special

846
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 1: ED teacher and my weed and ZAN x intake increased

847
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,919
Speaker 1: substantially over the pandemic. I talked to her a little

848
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,760
Speaker 1: bit about it and her zanex increase was really linked

849
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 1: to a really high stress job that she had. I'm

850
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 1: looking to take a break from the weed, but I

851
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 1: know I'll be very unpleasant. I'm curious about the chocolate

852
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 1: fun guy and where it can find them safely. Thanks Katie,

853
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 1: and she's actually here with us on the phone as well.

854
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 1: Hi Katie, hi there. Yeah, I think mushrooms are a

855
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 1: great pivot for you. Are Mushrooms legal? What? What states

856
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:13,840
Speaker 1: legally sell mushrooms? Ethan, no, there's no place where its legal,

857
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 1: although if you figure out a way to grow it,

858
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 1: there's all these sort of guys to growing you at home,

859
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:20,399
Speaker 1: and so large numbers of people are doing that now.

860
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 1: I'll also tell you. I don't know where you are,

861
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:24,279
Speaker 1: but like here in New York City, where they have

862
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 1: all these marijuanna delivery services that are still illegal, but

863
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,799
Speaker 1: nobody's going after them anymore. More and more of them

864
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:33,399
Speaker 1: are selling chocolate mushrooms. I mean I've now seen these

865
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 1: menus which used to just be different types of marijuana,

866
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:39,239
Speaker 1: edible and smokable, and now they're including, you know, mushrooms

867
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 1: in little powders and mushrooms and chocolates. So you know,

868
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 1: if you, if you know, where do you live? I

869
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:48,839
Speaker 1: live in New England and I use a delivery one

870
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 1: of those, you know, same type of things, so I'll

871
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 1: have to check that out. I haven't even bothered to

872
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: look at their edibles. M Hmm. Yeah, just ask your

873
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 1: delivery service if they happen to provide mushrooms and, if

874
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 1: they don't, if they know so many us, because I'm

875
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 1: amazed and how much this it has taken off in

876
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 1: the Marilanna delivery world, if you're carrying these things as well. Yeah,

877
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,839
Speaker 1: that's been my biggest issue, is being, you know, old

878
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 1: enough to know that online is not where it's at

879
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 1: to be trusted necessarily, and then not being young enough

880
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:21,720
Speaker 1: to really know anybody that's still growing or got stuff

881
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,240
Speaker 1: like that around. And so I was kind of stuck.

882
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:28,800
Speaker 1: And my doctor was more concerned with the ZANEX used

883
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: leading to Alzheimer's more than anything else, which kind of

884
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 1: scared me. And then that was kind of like, okay,

885
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 1: I really like to back off of that and not

886
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:40,800
Speaker 1: need it so much. So if I had a different

887
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:43,800
Speaker 1: option other than the weed, that would be great, because

888
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 1: at this point I just smoke all the time. What

889
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 1: about with weed? I mean, because the ADEX is the

890
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 1: one from a health perspective. It has a lot more

891
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:54,439
Speaker 1: risks and weed has relatively fewer risks and it might

892
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 1: be a matter of changing the way you're consuming weed

893
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 1: or the you know, maybe shifting to a drink couple

894
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:01,799
Speaker 1: of self with low th H C content in it,

895
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:04,280
Speaker 1: and those can be kind of Nice. I don't already

896
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:08,360
Speaker 1: tried that. Yeah, my issue is that I my consumption

897
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,359
Speaker 1: is just off the charts and like I'd make my

898
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:15,840
Speaker 1: own tincture that's a hundred twenty milligrams per Melo leader

899
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 1: and make my own gummies and sometimes feel them. Chelsea

900
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 1: talked about chocolate mushrooms as as an alternative and I

901
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:28,319
Speaker 1: was really curious about it. Yeah, I think what Ethan

902
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 1: said is pretty accurate, though, like anyone who's delivering weed

903
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 1: is also delivering mushrooms, because they're everywhere. Everywhere I go,

904
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 1: somebody hands me mushrooms. I wish I could hand them

905
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 1: to you right now. I want to go to there.

906
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:45,399
Speaker 1: But yeah, but, yeah, you, you should investigate and if

907
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 1: it's not that we delivery service that you're using, look

908
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 1: for some other ones, because I guarantee you'll find them there.

909
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:52,840
Speaker 1: You know, just don't Overdo it when you're trying mushrooms

910
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 1: for the first time again, make sure you're just doing

911
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:57,319
Speaker 1: like a half a dose to see how what your

912
00:44:57,320 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 1: reaction is, and then once you're comfortable with it, you

913
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 1: know how to tight trate or increase or whatever you're after,

914
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 1: which is relief. Yeah, I was gonna say what is it?

915
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 1: How would you describe that? Feeling? Well, with mushrooms I

916
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 1: find that I just have a lot of clarity and

917
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 1: I feel up. If I take chocolate mushrooms, like with

918
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:16,840
Speaker 1: my girlfriends, I'll take more to laugh, you know, and

919
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 1: just be silly, but mostly I take them. You know,

920
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 1: I took one yesterday. My friend had some mushroom morning mushrooms,

921
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 1: and it had like all these other ingredients in it

922
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 1: that we're just like wake up, natural ingredients and and

923
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 1: herbs and stuff like that. So and that stuff is

924
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 1: just so minimal. You just feel a little bit more

925
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 1: clarity and just a little sharper, you know, on it

926
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 1: and upbeat and ready to go, kind of like a

927
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 1: cup of coffee. Without it, I was just gonna say

928
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 1: my Tiktok Algorithm locked on into sending me mudwater. Is

929
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:50,360
Speaker 1: that something similar to what you're talking about? Yeah, the

930
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 1: mudwater is I love it. I think it's very tasty,

931
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 1: but it's a little bit more of like a coffee

932
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:59,280
Speaker 1: substitute rather than yeah, it's like adapt to Gen Mushrooms

933
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,320
Speaker 1: for health and that sort of thing. But it's tasty,

934
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 1: it tastes like try t you know, but not gonna

935
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 1: get you high. No. So here's one more question too.

936
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 1: Would you both suggest that she sort of tapered down

937
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:17,359
Speaker 1: the marijuana use before trying the mushrooms, or use them

938
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 1: in conjunction with each other? Well, what's the negative effect

939
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 1: of the MARIJUANNA use? Now for you, I mean my

940
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:29,320
Speaker 1: bank account, but I have a home garden with all

941
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 1: a bunch of tomato plants and then one, one lovely

942
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 1: little sativa. So I'm, you know, trying that way. But

943
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:36,400
Speaker 1: other than the fact that I'm spending a lot of

944
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 1: money and don't really get high anymore unless it's, you know,

945
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 1: what people would consider way overdoing it, like I went

946
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:46,399
Speaker 1: through like a half an ounce in the last week. Yeah,

947
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,479
Speaker 1: so your tolerance is pretty high. Yeah, I mean because

948
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 1: some people use marijuana as heavily as you do. It's

949
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 1: because you're getting some medical benefit from it. I mean

950
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 1: it may be serving this anti anxiety purpose. Definitely is

951
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 1: trying to hold back on the ZANNICS and maybe figuring

952
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 1: out a more cost effective way, the most cost effective

953
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 1: way to be consuming the marijuana. And I think if

954
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 1: you're gonna do the mushrooms. I don't know that you

955
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 1: need to cut back on the marijuana. You know it's

956
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,800
Speaker 1: there are different substances. They operate differently on your brain

957
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 1: and if you're doing is chelse you suggest doing with

958
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 1: a little micro dose thing or smaller dose, try it.

959
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 1: I mean look for me, the advantage of not using

960
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 1: cannabis every day is that when I get high, I

961
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 1: really enjoy getting high. Miss that. I think I'd more

962
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 1: look at it through that Lens to see if you

963
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 1: in fact you can taper off on cannabis or had some,

964
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:36,719
Speaker 1: you know, a cannabis free day or like each week

965
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:38,880
Speaker 1: or something like that, and just see what that feels

966
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 1: like and then you can decide whether you want to

967
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 1: try something like a low dose mushroom either on your

968
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:48,320
Speaker 1: marijuana day or even on the days you're doing marijuana. Okay,

969
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,799
Speaker 1: I'm definitely curious. I might now that I know it's

970
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 1: it's in New York. I'm I'm ahead of there in

971
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 1: a couple of days, so I should tell You New

972
00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:59,879
Speaker 1: York they haven't actually opened up the doors for leak

973
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 1: sale until the beginning of the year. So so it

974
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,320
Speaker 1: would still be a delivery service. will be a delivery

975
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 1: some places are opening up anyway and sort of daring

976
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 1: the cops to address them so you can find them. Yeah,

977
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 1: I mean they've got better things to do at this point. Really, exactly. Yeah,

978
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 1: but you can easily find a delivery service. I mean

979
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 1: that's what everybody in New York City does. You know,

980
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:22,759
Speaker 1: if you get it delivered to whoever you're staying with,

981
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 1: you could figure that out easily. Awesome. That's so great

982
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 1: to know. Well, I really appreciate your your advice and

983
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:32,880
Speaker 1: you know, it was cool to get to chat and

984
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 1: something that I wouldn't normally get to have a conversation

985
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 1: with on like an educated level. So that's pretty cool.

986
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Awesome, awesome, good luck to you. Keep

987
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 1: US posting all right by well, our next question really

988
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:51,760
Speaker 1: fits well into what we just talked about with Katie.

989
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 1: Carrie wrote in. She says, Dear Chelsea, I've been dating

990
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 1: my boyfriend for four years now. We're in our late twenties.

991
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 1: He's always very openly loved smoking weed. I don't personally

992
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 1: partake very often because it makes my anxiety worse, but

993
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 1: lots of my friends and family do, so I'm very

994
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 1: familiar with being around it. In the early years of

995
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 1: our relationship I saw no problem with his smoking because

996
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:15,400
Speaker 1: we were young. It seemed less destructive than drinking and

997
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:17,880
Speaker 1: I didn't feel it was my place to judge. However,

998
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:20,359
Speaker 1: he's almost thirty now and he smokes every single day.

999
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 1: He'll smoke right when he gets home from work and

1000
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 1: again multiple times throughout the night until we go to bed.

1001
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 1: On the weekends, he smokes almost immediately after waking up.

1002
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:30,879
Speaker 1: Often he can't even eat without it because he's used

1003
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 1: to relying on it to induce hunger. To his credit,

1004
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:37,360
Speaker 1: his personality isn't altered much when he smokes. He doesn't

1005
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 1: get quiet or sleepy, as I know some people do.

1006
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 1: I still enjoy being around him, even though he sometimes

1007
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:45,799
Speaker 1: does have a bad memory because of it. My question is,

1008
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:48,360
Speaker 1: how do you know when smoking weed becomes a problem?

1009
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 1: We're approaching the age where we make more serious commitments

1010
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:53,880
Speaker 1: like marriage and kids, and this feels like the elephant

1011
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 1: in the room. I've spoken to Him Multiple Times about this,

1012
00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 1: but rather than having a conversation, he shuts down my

1013
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 1: concern earns as me having an outdated and biased view

1014
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 1: of marijuana. In his opinion, there are no bad side effects.

1015
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 1: It's more widely becoming legal and there's really no reason

1016
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:12,399
Speaker 1: to stop or slow down. Since you openly enjoy weed

1017
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 1: more than I do, it might be interesting to have

1018
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 1: a perspective on when and if marijuana use can go

1019
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:20,839
Speaker 1: too far. Carry Ethan. Why don't you hit that out

1020
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:23,440
Speaker 1: of the park? Okay, what I would just say to

1021
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:29,360
Speaker 1: her is basically, if he's not really seeing any problems

1022
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 1: with his youth. And then she said maybe his memory

1023
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 1: isn't as good because he's smoking weed. But I think

1024
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:40,280
Speaker 1: the bottom line is basically don't worry about it. Getting

1025
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 1: older is not an issue. He's getting defensive in the

1026
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:45,879
Speaker 1: relationship with you. Is Not going to be productive. He's

1027
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 1: already indicated he can hear criticism of that side of

1028
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 1: his life. Is quite possible that he's using this in

1029
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 1: a way that's more medical than anything else, since he's

1030
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 1: probably really not getting very high anymore. He's just using

1031
00:50:57,239 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 1: it on a very regular basis. So I can understand

1032
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 1: feeling a little irritated by the fact that that thing

1033
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 1: is always in your life and it's not something you

1034
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:08,719
Speaker 1: share much, and maybe even feeling a little jealous of

1035
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 1: it in some respect. But unless you can pinpoint problems

1036
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:15,839
Speaker 1: with it. I would just leave it alone and it's

1037
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 1: quite possible that the day will come and the moment

1038
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:20,400
Speaker 1: will come when he comes to the conclusion that maybe

1039
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 1: he wants to stop doing it. But if he's got

1040
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 1: his backup because you're getting more and more critical about it,

1041
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:28,720
Speaker 1: I don't think that's going to go anywhere good. Yeah,

1042
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:31,200
Speaker 1: I would say the exact same thing. There's no reason.

1043
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 1: You know, it is kind of an outdated stance on it.

1044
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:37,239
Speaker 1: I mean it is becoming legal everywhere. He likes using

1045
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:40,839
Speaker 1: it and again, what Ethan said is perfectly accurate. At

1046
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 1: this point he's probably not getting that much benefit from it,

1047
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 1: unless it is a health benefit, because he's certainly probably

1048
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:47,799
Speaker 1: not getting high at this point. I know when I

1049
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 1: over consume marijuana, it takes so much to make me high.

1050
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,279
Speaker 1: So yeah, you gotta kind of just like get rid

1051
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 1: of that way of thinking and, you know, just be

1052
00:51:56,440 --> 00:52:00,080
Speaker 1: happy it's not something like drinking or another drug. That

1053
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 1: would be a situation if somebody came home and they

1054
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:06,399
Speaker 1: relied on that. You know, marijuana is pretty benign and

1055
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:08,359
Speaker 1: it's helpful to a lot of people. So you don't

1056
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:11,000
Speaker 1: know what kind of anxiety he might have or what

1057
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:14,360
Speaker 1: other body aches he might have that this is helping

1058
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 1: him with that he might not even be aware of himself.

1059
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:19,719
Speaker 1: It might just be to for him to equalize. So

1060
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 1: I would just try and say be a little bit

1061
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 1: more open hearted and open minded. Let him do his

1062
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:26,839
Speaker 1: thing and then you do your thing. Yeah, and there's

1063
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:28,920
Speaker 1: that old thing of when do you know something is

1064
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:31,440
Speaker 1: addictive or becoming a problem, and it's when you have

1065
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:35,920
Speaker 1: negative consequences. It sounds like he's not really having negative consequences.

1066
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 1: You know, we've had people call into the show and

1067
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:40,319
Speaker 1: and say, you know, I really want to taper down

1068
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 1: my marijuana use or or that sort of thing. So

1069
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:45,480
Speaker 1: I feel like if someone thinks that they do, then

1070
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 1: like go for it. Definitely your body is telling you something,

1071
00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:50,759
Speaker 1: your mind is telling you something, but it sounds like

1072
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:54,040
Speaker 1: he's not having any any negative consequences other than this

1073
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:56,759
Speaker 1: relationship issue. Yeah, I liked what you said that. My

1074
00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:01,920
Speaker 1: definition of addiction is addiction equals depending plus problems. So

1075
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:05,120
Speaker 1: if you're dependent on a drug, whether it's coffee to

1076
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 1: get up in the morning, whether it's a Statin for

1077
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:10,759
Speaker 1: your cholesterol or a heart drug, whether it's method on

1078
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 1: because you were once addicted to heroin. It's not an

1079
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:17,840
Speaker 1: addiction so long as that dependence on the drug is

1080
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 1: not a problem, and it sounds quite likely that with

1081
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 1: this guy. It sounds like it's basically a dependence, a

1082
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:26,359
Speaker 1: serious dependence, but not really causing any problems. In fact,

1083
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:28,279
Speaker 1: it sounds like the biggest problem is it could become

1084
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:30,800
Speaker 1: a problem in his marriage, even if it's not causing

1085
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 1: him any problems in his own personal life apart from that. Well,

1086
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:37,439
Speaker 1: on that note, we will take our break and we'll

1087
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 1: be right back with Ethan Naielman and Chelsea. We're back. Fantastic. Well, Ethan,

1088
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 1: did you have any advice you'd like to get from Chelsea? Wow, Chelsea,

1089
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 1: you know I was thinking about that. The first piece

1090
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 1: of advice, and if you is not specifically about drugs.

1091
00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:00,880
Speaker 1: You have this very successful pie cast and I have

1092
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:03,040
Speaker 1: my podcast like co active, which I'm trying to turn

1093
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 1: into a much bigger thing. So if you've got any

1094
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 1: advice about how to get a building audience for a

1095
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 1: podcast that talks about the whole spectrum of drugs and

1096
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 1: drug wars and drug policies and drug use, I'm all

1097
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 1: ears for advice about doing something like that. Well, I

1098
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:21,759
Speaker 1: mean you should book a couple of celebrity guests. I'll

1099
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 1: volunteer to come on and talk to you about drugs.

1100
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:26,320
Speaker 1: That will help. The first thing. Yeah, to make it

1101
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:28,960
Speaker 1: a little shiny, but I've what I've learned about podcasts.

1102
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 1: How long have you had your podcast? I'm in the

1103
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:34,319
Speaker 1: second season now, so we started just over a year ago. Yeah,

1104
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:35,920
Speaker 1: what I've learned is that it takes a couple of

1105
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:39,279
Speaker 1: years for anybody, whether you're a famous person or less

1106
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 1: famous or whatever your platform is, that it takes a

1107
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:44,520
Speaker 1: few years to really build and grow. But when you

1108
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:47,240
Speaker 1: have a subject matter that's so many people are interested

1109
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:49,799
Speaker 1: right now and it's such a part of our Zeitgeist,

1110
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:51,719
Speaker 1: I mean, I have no I mean you've got a

1111
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:56,080
Speaker 1: great title and you're very knowledgeable, obviously, so I would

1112
00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 1: imagine that people are very interested in hearing more of

1113
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:01,760
Speaker 1: what you have to say. So I know that certainly

1114
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:04,399
Speaker 1: our listeners, plenty of them, will be interested in that too.

1115
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 1: So I would just say, yeah, just keep doing it.

1116
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:09,719
Speaker 1: That's how you accrue more listeners, you know, you just

1117
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:13,520
Speaker 1: it happens slowly over time. Okay, Great. Well, I have

1118
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:15,719
Speaker 1: one other question for you. Which is, you know, when

1119
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 1: I used to be a professor and I wrote books,

1120
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:19,880
Speaker 1: academic books and a lot of writing, but in the

1121
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 1: last and twenty years I've been writing less and less,

1122
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 1: and now I want to write a book about my

1123
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:27,440
Speaker 1: life and about drugs and I'm kind of blocked. And

1124
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:30,319
Speaker 1: I see that you've had like five or six best sellers,

1125
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:32,480
Speaker 1: and a lot of them about your life. So how

1126
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:36,480
Speaker 1: did you actually get those books done and out? With

1127
00:55:36,520 --> 00:55:41,680
Speaker 1: a lot of cannabis. Quite frankly, that's really that. That,

1128
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 1: that is the best use of cannabis that I've ever had.

1129
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:46,400
Speaker 1: When I have a task at hand, a creative task,

1130
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:49,080
Speaker 1: and I do all the work, but when I have

1131
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 1: to go in and Polish and deliver, is when I

1132
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:55,920
Speaker 1: use cannabis and or mushrooms. Mushrooms also micro dosing mushrooms

1133
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:59,080
Speaker 1: helps me focus. But Yeah, because you get organized and

1134
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:02,480
Speaker 1: then you get hyper focused. Cannabis helps me lose myself

1135
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:04,919
Speaker 1: in something, but I have to have the subject there.

1136
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, like if I go work out,

1137
00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 1: I can lose myself, and working out, if I'm writing,

1138
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:11,799
Speaker 1: I can lose myself, and writing, if I'm sitting on

1139
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:14,080
Speaker 1: my bed, I'm gonna lose myself on my phone, but

1140
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 1: you just I like to choose the activity that I'M

1141
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:19,000
Speaker 1: gonna lose myself in. But I would definitely say cannabis

1142
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:21,480
Speaker 1: has been a huge contributor to my the success of

1143
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:24,680
Speaker 1: my books. Wow, wow, well, I'll tell you. I keep

1144
00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:27,600
Speaker 1: meaning to start a kind of microdocing mushroom routine, but

1145
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:29,759
Speaker 1: I keep forgetting to do it. So it may be

1146
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:32,400
Speaker 1: that that maybe the answer for me, because sometimes I

1147
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:35,040
Speaker 1: find with cannabis like I find a hard time writing

1148
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:36,879
Speaker 1: with it, because I sort of forget, like I lose

1149
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:38,880
Speaker 1: my train of thought. You know, I forget what it

1150
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:41,279
Speaker 1: was I wrote just it was just thinking a few

1151
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:43,480
Speaker 1: minutes ago. It's one reason I don't like giving a

1152
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:46,640
Speaker 1: speech or doing interview under the influence of cannabis, because

1153
00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:50,920
Speaker 1: it's problematic in that way, whereas mushrooms can be more focusing.

1154
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:52,960
Speaker 1: So I maybe have to make more of a serious

1155
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:55,759
Speaker 1: effort there. Yeah, just put it together as your responsibility

1156
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:58,080
Speaker 1: to get your book done right. You're right, and you

1157
00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:02,880
Speaker 1: need to start your mushroom routine. Sounds good. Sounds good. Ethan,

1158
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:05,160
Speaker 1: thank you so much for being on the podcast today.

1159
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 1: I loved everything you had to say. Well, I look,

1160
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:10,000
Speaker 1: I love doing it. It was great to team up

1161
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 1: with you on answering those questions, Chelsea, and I really

1162
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:14,279
Speaker 1: admire so all the ways that you've been out there

1163
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:16,720
Speaker 1: on the drug issue and on so many others. Are

1164
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:20,480
Speaker 1: Politics Aligned very much and I appreciate both your courage

1165
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:22,600
Speaker 1: and sort of really speaking, I saw you were speaking

1166
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:25,200
Speaker 1: out about this drug stuff before marijuana was legal, and

1167
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 1: you were speaking about psychedelics and doing episodes about it

1168
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:30,000
Speaker 1: on Netflix and all those where when this was not

1169
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:32,040
Speaker 1: quite so cool and hips. So you were one of

1170
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:34,000
Speaker 1: the pioneers and getting this out and I really do

1171
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:39,640
Speaker 1: appreciate that. Thank you, thanks, sad thanks. Okay, bye, bye, bye. So,

1172
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:42,280
Speaker 1: if you'd like advice from Chelsea, just send us an

1173
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:47,080
Speaker 1: email at dear Chelsea project at GMAIL DOT com. Dear

1174
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:50,760
Speaker 1: Chelsea is a production of I heart radio, executive produced

1175
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:54,120
Speaker 1: by nick stuff, produced by Catherine Law and edited and

1176
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:55,800
Speaker 1: engineered by Brad Dickert.