WEBVTT - Future of Wildlife Conservation 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:07.160 Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to 0:00:07.360 --> 0:00:14.480 Forward Thinking. Hey there, and welcome to Forward Thinking, the 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:17.400 podcast that looks at the future and says they call 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:21.640 me the hip Hopopotamus my lyrics or bottomless. I'm Jonathan Strickland, 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:25.880 and I'm this is Forward Thinking. We talked about the 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:28.360 future of stuff, and today we wanted to talk about 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:30.680 the future of something that's really near and dear to 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:36.200 my heart. Uh, specifically, it's it's wildlife conservation. And uh 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:40.559 it's important to talk about this because there's some some 0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:44.680 rough data out there that suggests that lots of different 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:49.240 species maybe in some pretty particular danger. Right. Oh sure, 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:51.720 And and we can never say that species are in 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:56.240 no danger at all whatsoever. I mean, natural extinct extinction 0:00:56.320 --> 0:01:01.680 happens all the time. Yes. Well as a great both 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:04.720 spirit who talks to me from the clouds once said, 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:09.160 death is just a part of life. It is, so 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:11.000 you know, you could never expect to live in a 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:15.200 world where no species of organisms ever dwindle or go extinct, 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:18.480 because extinctions are pretty straightforward consequence of evolution. You know, 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:23.640 some uh species are competing for resources. Sometimes some species 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:25.400 are going to become ascendant, others are going to go 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:28.440 on the decline. Sure, if a species fills a niche 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:31.600 that another species was heading towards, then that other species 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:35.200 might be edged out of that ecosystem, right, may go extinct. 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:37.760 So that there is throughout history, and we can sort 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:41.640 of infer this from the fossil record and and different 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:44.560 clues we have about the history of life on Earth, 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:49.120 that extinction has pretty much been steady, except there are 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:53.360 periods when it sort of goes into overdrive. Oh yeah, 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:56.280 and these have been happening for a long time, a 0:01:56.280 --> 0:01:58.800 long time before humans got hundreds of millions of years. 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:01.800 So you've got the steady ground extinction right where some 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:04.520 small number of species on Earth just kind of go 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:08.840 extinct every year. But then there are periods where suddenly 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:11.960 lots of species go extinct. And these can be bad 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:15.200 for multiple reasons that we can get into in a minute. 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:18.919 But so, what causes these huge extinctions that are usually 0:02:18.960 --> 0:02:22.079 referred to as mass extinctions. Typically, I think it's it's 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:27.240 catastrophic environmental changes. A lot of cases we don't know 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:29.919 exactly for sure what caused them. We have some pretty 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:34.959 good ideas. Usually it's things like space impacts, geothermal activity 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:37.600 or volcanic eruptions or maybe even this is a weird 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:41.120 idea coal fire eruptions. Have you heard about this? So 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:45.440 it's just one hypothesis about what could have been partially 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:49.959 responsible for some past extinctions if there were massive eruptions 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:53.960 of of coal beds on Earth. And then of course 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:56.720 simply through climate change too, and climate change can be 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:59.480 a result of those other things I just mentioned. We 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:01.880 should also point out, I mean, I'm sure most of 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:04.840 our listeners are aware of this, but mass extinctions. That 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:08.960 doesn't mean that one day a ton of species just 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:12.720 suddenly died out. Mass extinctions can take course over hundreds 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:15.519 of thousands of years. Act. Yeah. Yeah, Still that that's 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:19.079 geologically pretty quick. Sure, geologically it's a blink of an eye. 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:21.200 But for you know, a human being, like, it's hard 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:24.560 for us to to, uh, to reconcile those two things, 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:27.920 like the idea of a bunch of species relatively suddenly 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:31.720 in the geological phase, uh going extinct, but in in 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:36.240 human life terms, it seems like a really long time. Yeah. 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:39.920 And so unfortunately a lot of scientists have recently come 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:42.600 to the conclusion that we are actually in the middle 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:46.120 of one of those periods right now what many have 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:49.600 referred to as the sixth mass extinction. There have been 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:53.760 five already and we're currently in another one. Yeah, if 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:56.360 you want to hear a whole bunch about this topic, 0:03:56.440 --> 0:03:59.280 our colleague Christian Sager did a video interview with the 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:02.680 Gizmoto editor in chief Annale Knew It's all about it 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:05.560 last year at dragon Con, and it's up on the 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:08.240 house to works a YouTube channel. We'll try to remember 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:10.440 to link it on social But but but a few 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:14.680 kind of basic facts in brief here. Okay, Well, one 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:20.080 of the things is the current extinction rate grossly exceeds 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:23.320 what has been referred to as the background extinction rate. 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:26.839 So you have this steady, ongoing background extinction rate. When 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:29.920 things are normal, you can expect x number of species 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:34.120 to go extinct every year. According to a May study 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:37.560 published in the journal Science, the current extinction rates are 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:42.279 roughly one thousand times the background rate of extinction. Yeah. 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:47.960 That does seem like that's significant. Yeah. Yeah. So, according 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:50.839 to a claim I found coming from the w WF, 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:54.599 the Worldwide Fund for Nature or the World Wildlife Fund, 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:56.839 it goes by both names, has nothing to do with 0:04:56.880 --> 0:05:00.680 wrestling it's a conservation group. According to their only fourteen 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:05.080 Living Planet Report, vertebrate species on Earth, So that's going 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:11.040 to be like, you know, tetrapods, mammals, fish, amphibians, birds 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:19.880 had declined fifty two in the last forty years. What 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:26.040 that's incredible. Yeah, it's not not a good kind of incredible. No, 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:30.320 So what would be a contributing factor to this? I mean, what, 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:33.560 what were there conclusions about what might be, you know, 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:36.840 causing this this extinction. Well, I think it is a 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:40.679 very common conclusion reached by scientists who study this area 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:43.800 that the current mass extinction event is believed to be 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:47.960 largely related to human activity. There might be other factors, 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:51.120 but human behavior is playing a huge role in it. 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:54.719 It might be the single most important driving force. And 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:57.839 it's not that we're just like eating all the animals, 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:02.320 no that Yeah, it's not just wrecked extermination or capturing 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:05.560 of wildlife that that does happen, Like poaching and hunting 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:08.640 can play a role. I think what's thought to be 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:13.119 more commonly the problem is the unintended consequences of human 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:17.640 civilization and behavior, leading to things like humans bringing invasive 0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:23.080 species and new habitats, or humans destroying habitats, converting converting 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:26.920 land into farmland, and you remove the ecosystem that supported 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:32.040 the various species in that area, cutting down forests, draining swamps, 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:35.560 or creating factories that are going to have an impact 0:06:35.680 --> 0:06:38.360 on the climate. Yeah, and so climate change is also 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:40.560 going to be a huge one when you're talking about 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:44.760 changing the environmental conditions in the places where these animals live. 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:47.520 You don't even have to destroy the place where they 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:50.800 live if you just maybe make it warmer, or make 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:53.839 the water more acidic or something like this. These long 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:58.159 downstream changes that occur because of global warming that can 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:01.160 result in damage to wildlife too. All right, well, let's 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:05.880 let's take an example of somebody who doesn't see the 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:08.760 value of any particular species of animal. Let's say that. 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:12.800 All right, let's say there's uh, some sort of weird 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:17.720 amphibian that I'm just not really keen on. It's kind 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:21.520 of ugly, it makes this loud noise at night. I 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:24.280 wouldn't really mind if it just went away. What is 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:27.680 the big deal? Yeah, that's a common expression you hear, 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:29.880 And I know that's not your feeling, Jonathan, but I 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:32.480 think a lot of people have this kind of Oh, 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:34.920 you know these people trying to get upset over some 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:37.960 toad or why are people making such a big deal 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:40.400 about some owl? I've never even seen one of these? 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:43.760 What does it matter in my life? Even if you 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:47.560 are not an animal lover and you don't personally have 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:51.520 feelings about, you know, the spotted owl or whatever animal 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:55.120 it is that's being threatened, this should matter to you 0:07:55.160 --> 0:08:00.600 because loss of biodiversity can potentially cause unpredictable chain reaction 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:03.960 effects on ecosystems, which might come to have a great 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:07.240 impact on human life, even if you're not a nature lover. 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:10.320 So I just came up with a totally hypothetical, dreamed 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:14.280 up example and to show the kind of thing I mean. Okay, 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:18.400 let let me hear your example. Okay, So how about 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:22.440 let's imagine a bat. It is the strickland reticulated bat 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:26.480 like it already, and reticulated of course, meaning has little 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:33.559 netting pattern on its wings. Right, So, strickland reticulated bat. 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:38.079 It goes endangered because humans and its natural range set 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:41.440 up a football stadium, and the amplifier system of this 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:45.880 football stadium produces ultrasonic frequencies that interfere with the bats 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:51.720 echolocation hunting. Nope, the bats can't hunt. They starve and 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:54.800 they disappear from the area. So maybe they're either just 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:57.280 gone from their former range and they've had to move 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:02.360 somewhere else, or maybe they're totally extinct. The primary food 0:09:02.400 --> 0:09:06.400 of the strickland reticulated bat happens to be insect prey 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:11.079 like mosquitoes. Without the bats to control the population of mosquitoes, 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:15.600 the mosquito populations almost immediately spiral out of control. As 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:19.240 the mosquito populations boom, they expand their range and swarm 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:23.120 in on the settled locations outside the area, and that 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:25.800 includes maybe the football stadium. So they swarm in on 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:29.600 the sports fans and bite them, suck their blood. It's 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:33.160 delicious blood, and I normally I would say it serves 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:37.000 those rotten sports fans right for driving out this beautiful 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:41.080 creature from the region. However, that would be very shortsighted 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:43.160 of me to say that, sure it would, because in 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:46.120 doing so, what if the mosquitoes happened to bring in 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:50.599 a virus that was previously only present in some reservoir 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:54.319 species out in the wilderness where these mosquitoes were previously 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:58.160 confined to. Because they were being hunted effectively by the bats. Yeah, 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:00.480 and this, and this happens a lot. There's a lot 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:03.560 of animal disease that can transfer to humans from things 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:07.520 like bats that don't get sick from that disease exactly. 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:11.160 So imagine there is a mutant strain of hemorrhagic fever 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:15.560 virus that loves to live in skunks, the mosquitoes, previous 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:19.040 favorite blood source. The mosquitoes drink the blood of the skunks, 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:21.599 then they fly to the stadium, drink the blood of 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:24.719 the humans, spread the skunk fever, and now we're all 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:27.800 bleeding out the eyes with skunk fever because we did 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:30.160 not care about the bats. So what you're saying is 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:34.559 that by driving out the bats, we have inadvertently caused 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:37.880 the zombie apocalypse to descend upon us, the bloody eyed 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:41.000 zombie apocalypse. Yes, I knew it. Now, I don't want 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:45.880 to be pinned as a sensationalist, so let me remind 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:48.000 you I just made this up, and I don't know 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:51.240 if that specific scenario could actually happen, but it illustrates 0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:54.400 the type of thing that can happen in ecosystems because 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:59.800 ecosystems are incredibly complex. Even animals within ecosystems that don't 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:04.480 interact with one another directly or interdependent in complex ways 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:09.160 based on other intermediary creatures, and removing one species can 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:13.240 set off chain reactions that affect the others. Right. So 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:16.200 I actually have another example that I can give very quickly. 0:11:16.240 --> 0:11:19.000 This is when I mentioned in the video about about 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:22.760 shark conservation, which kind of served as the inspiration for 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:26.959 this more broad approach to the topic. And that is, Uh, 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:29.920 if you over fish sharks, and by the way, a 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:33.720 hundred million sharks are caught every year in various fisheries, 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:37.480 So if you over fish sharks, then you reduce the 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:41.320 number of predators in various ecosystems. And in ecosystems that 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:45.000 have sea grass, for example, that means the foraging animals 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:49.760 will have nothing, no predators to to cull their numbers, 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:52.440 and so they'll eat all the sea grass, which is 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:56.320 great for one generation of animals, but then there's no 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:59.640 more sea grass, so no more generations of those animals 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:02.200 are going to be able to use that particular region 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:05.240 to forage for food, and it's all gone. Yeah, and 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:07.400 and nothing else that would normally live in that sea 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:10.199 grass is going to be able to live there an Yeah, right, 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:12.920 so you you know, that's why even something like a 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:16.480 predator is really important, because it does keep these systems 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:19.520 in balance. Of course, So the next time you hear 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:22.840 somebody ask like, oh, why should I care about this 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:25.679 one animal? It's just some dumb animal. You know, there 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:28.520 are lots of other types of owls who who gives 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:31.840 a care? Yeah, but remind them of the zombie apocalypse. Well, yeah, 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:34.320 what you can remind them is that every time an 0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:37.440 animal goes in endangered or goes extinct, it's not just 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:41.360 a threat to that species, it's a threat to system stability. 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:43.760 It's kind of like if you said, well, I'm riding 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:46.360 on a bus, and what if I removed at random 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:51.000 one part from this bus. It might be a bolt somewhere, 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:53.400 it might be something like that. Maybe the bus could 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:56.360 keep going fine without that part. Maybe it wouldn't. You 0:12:56.400 --> 0:12:59.920 don't know, right, And because these systems are so complex, 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:02.720 most of the time we would say, well, we know 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:04.800 something will happen, we just don't know to what extent, 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:08.160 and it might be catastrophic. So that's one of the 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:10.640 reasons why you should really care about conservation, even if 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:14.479 for some reason you don't care about lovely cuttabool animals 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:18.400 that are wonderful and need our love, so um one 0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:20.439 of the we wanted to talk about what we might 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:23.560 be doing in the future to help wildlife conservation. One 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:25.760 of the things I wanted to cover very briefly because 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:28.240 we don't always just talk about science and technology. I 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:30.600 know that that often is what we focus on the show, 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:32.600 but really we look at all elements of the future. 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:35.200 One of the things we need to think about is policy. 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:37.800 And there are a lot of countries out there that 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:43.640 have various types of policies about conservation or agencies or 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:47.280 organizations that oversee that within that country. And then there's 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:49.640 the United Nations, which has its own group called the 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:52.600 United Nations Environment Program, and within that they had the 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:57.120 World Conservation Monitoring Center, which helps coordinate studies and promote 0:13:57.120 --> 0:14:00.360 projects that support biodiversity in the protection of ecosystem around 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:04.719 the world. And in fact, they have a very ambitious project. 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:10.760 They're looking to create a global connectivity conservation strategy. So 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:15.280 when we talk about this complex web that all these 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:19.480 different species end up being part of, they're trying to 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:22.800 kind of map some of that out, and that's a 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:25.800 herculean task. I mean, that's what biology has been doing 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:30.800 for for since there's been biologists. But they're looking to 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:35.640 identify fragmented habitats of various species as well. So let's 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:39.160 say that there is a region within a country where 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:42.320 there are two different populations of the same species that 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:45.920 used to coexist in the same general geographic region, but 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:48.560 because the way humans have moved in, it's divided that up. Now. 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:50.760 They're looking at ways where they might be able to 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:54.520 reconnect these habitats to help make these populations more healthy 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:57.960 so that it can be greater genetic diversity and biodiversity 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:01.280 as well. So they're looking at as to support governments 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:06.400 and stakeholders to protect ecological systems. Stakeholders being anyone who 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:08.880 would be affected by these sort of policies. How can 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:12.120 you turn it into an incentive as opposed to something 0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:15.960 that people are going to oppose because it could impact 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:18.960 their plans on either making a profit or expansion or 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:23.040 whatever it may be. Because these are delicate matters. I mean, 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:26.120 it's not always a cut and dry case like we 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:29.480 like to simplify the narrative, like it's it's the evil 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:33.440 developer who wants to ruin a swamp in order to 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:38.480 create a multimillion dollar complex. That's not always it's the 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:40.760 last rainforest. No, I mean, I think in a lot 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:43.160 of cases, these are just people who are trying to 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:45.480 make a living and they're not thinking about it and 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:47.800 is not even aware of what the risks are. In 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:50.520 some cases, it's balancing things and maybe like, no, we 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:53.280 wanted to turn that into a state of the art hospital, 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:56.560 which our citizens have never had in the history of ever. 0:15:57.200 --> 0:15:59.640 And it's hard to say to people like you can't 0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:03.160 have that, you can't have a really awesome neononatal wing 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:06.760 because of a toad. Yeah, and it is difficult. It 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:09.000 does mean that. That's why this group is looking to 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:13.120 find ways and strategies to help governments so that they 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:16.960 can accomplish the goals they need to accomplish without also 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:20.520 impacting the environment in a negative way. So they're looking 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:24.920 to establish sound scientific foundation upon which they can build 0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:28.239 this collection of policy and legislative tools, plus the incentives 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:31.600 to use those tools that governments can use to promote conservation. 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:36.200 So I think it's a really forward thinking approach. Actually, 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:39.880 you know, just to yeah, I know, right, Hey, you 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:43.760 said the title of the podcast um to the Future, 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:49.160 right right, So I think it really is is a 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:55.160 very smart way of moving forward, because it's it's establishing that, yes, 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:57.960 we need to make sure that the decisions we make 0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:01.360 are evidence based, that they are science, they're not they're 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:05.760 not just knee jerk reactions, but in fact have have 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:08.920 research behind them to show that this is in fact 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:12.959 the best option. Sure, and there's a real need for 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:16.320 that in these types of cases, because when animals are threatened. 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:20.400 You know, your little cuddling monologue earlier was a good 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:23.760 indication of the fact that these topics are likely to 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:28.040 involve our feelings, Yes, to excite our emotions and to 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:30.720 make us feel empathy and stuff like that, and and 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:33.560 it's it can be tough then to make a rational 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:37.080 decision if you don't systematize your decision making process. Yes, 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:40.320 the goal is to remove by us as much as possible, 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:44.120 so that the decisions that you arrive at are are 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:47.520 ones that that do make sense and are not again, 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:50.320 just an emotional reaction to something. Not to say that 0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:52.879 the emotional reaction would necessarily be the wrong one, but 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:54.800 this way, this way you can at least say no, no no, no, 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:57.760 this demonstrably is the right way to go. Also, even 0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:01.400 just just getting all of that information and just sharing 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:06.040 it amongst different researchers and scientists and uh, geological services 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:08.440 and all of that stuff is really difficult to do 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:11.080 and of course getting easier thanks to the Internet and 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:15.480 you know, spreadsheets and stuff like that, but uh, classically 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:17.679 it's been very difficult to pulp to pool all of 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:20.080 that information in a useful way. Yeah, you would have 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:24.320 these these these concentrated areas where research would be really 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:29.080 amazing and deep and broad, but not necessarily connected to 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:32.800 another region that might be geologically quite close, but as 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:35.879 far as research is concerned, could be you know, decades away. 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:39.960 It's this is actually very promising, and there are other 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:41.800 policies that could point out, like there are a lot 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:44.640 of places around the world they're setting up various types 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:48.159 of refugees, not just not just for land animals, but 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:50.719 also for sharks. I mean there are areas that are 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:54.200 specifically says aside that are protected waters for all different 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:57.960 species or maybe not all, but most species of sharks. 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:02.359 And uh, that's also very very promising. And beyond policy, 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:06.800 we do have some kind of interesting technology approaches that 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:10.840 are helping people in efforts to conserve wildlife. And one 0:19:10.880 --> 0:19:15.200 of those is a your smartphone. Sure, and whether it's 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:19.000 your smartphone or somebody else's smartphone, the basic idea here 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:24.280 is apps, software and technology that help enable citizen science 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:28.760 and citizen participation in the scientific data gathering that we 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:33.040 need to help protect species. That right. The first example 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:36.600 we have is an e Naturalist, and that's actually it's 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:39.080 it's broader than just an app. It actually it's it's 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:41.920 an online social network that's made up of biologists and 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:46.119 naturalists as well as citizen scientists, and they're really looking 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:49.040 to map bio diversity. And it's a platform upon which 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:51.240 people can share observation. So you can have an app 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:54.080 on your phone and when you are out in nature 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:58.119 and you see, you know, evidence of various types of animals, 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:01.400 you might use it to say, hey, I saw this 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:05.639 this type of creature at this place. And this gives 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:09.719 biologists an incredible tool, an ability to really kind of 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:15.240 see in real time what the various density populations are, 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:18.040 but based upon the number of reports they might see. 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:20.440 So as more people use it and as more people 0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:24.800 report on the animals they see, you can see either 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:28.440 an increase in reports might show that there's a population 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:30.840 that's on the rise. A decrease could show that perhaps 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:33.560 there's a population that's in trouble. Could also show the 0:20:33.680 --> 0:20:38.320 evidence of of encroaching species, invasive species. So we're really interesting. 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:40.760 It could just give you a better idea about what 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:43.280 the natural range of a species is. I mean in 0:20:43.359 --> 0:20:45.480 some races when you think about it, like, how do 0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:48.320 you determine the range of a species? I mean that's 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:51.280 not as easy to do as you might think. Can 0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:53.879 you go out and walk over every square foot of 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:56.679 ground and say, okay, don't see anymore here, so I 0:20:56.680 --> 0:20:59.080 guess this is the end, right? Yeah. It makes me 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:02.159 think of whenever you look up a particular species and 0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:04.720 you see where it's range tends to be, and it 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:06.360 will give it like here in the United States, you'll 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:09.320 usually get a list of states that that animal can 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:11.199 be found in, and then you just think, well, what 0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:13.760 would happen if I were in a neighboring state and 0:21:13.840 --> 0:21:16.000 saw this When I just say, hey, you don't belong here. 0:21:16.280 --> 0:21:18.480 You need to pick up and move twenty miles to 0:21:18.520 --> 0:21:23.800 the east. Buddy. These ground reclusives in my house fighting 0:21:23.840 --> 0:21:28.520 meed to be here, I think we found the next 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:34.280 sci fi channel. We have a xenophobia, so but but yeah, 0:21:34.320 --> 0:21:37.760 this this means that biologists would have we'll be able 0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:40.400 to leverage a tool that a lot of different industries 0:21:40.400 --> 0:21:44.159 have been leveraging. The fact that using crowd generated data 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:47.399 to help get a better understanding of what's going on. 0:21:47.760 --> 0:21:49.800 We talk about this all the time with the Internet 0:21:49.800 --> 0:21:52.720 of things, and usually we're talking about understanding system so 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:56.920 that you can build more efficient infrastructure or tools or 0:21:56.960 --> 0:21:59.080 whatever it may be. In this case, we're actually talking 0:21:59.119 --> 0:22:03.399 about expanding our knowledge of a particular science. That's pretty cool. 0:22:03.880 --> 0:22:05.920 Another one that we can talk about is oh Search, 0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:09.439 which is uh one I referred to in the shark 0:22:09.560 --> 0:22:13.439 conservation video. It's pretty cool. This is an app that 0:22:13.480 --> 0:22:16.600 lets you track tagged sharks. So there are shark tagging 0:22:16.680 --> 0:22:20.320 expeditions where people will go out, catch, catch a shark, 0:22:20.960 --> 0:22:24.639 bring it on board, tag it with essentially a beacon 0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:27.639 that lets you know where that shark is, release it, 0:22:27.720 --> 0:22:29.439 and then they track where the shark goes in order 0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:33.440 to learn more about shark migratory patterns and predatory patterns 0:22:33.440 --> 0:22:35.520 where it tends to go at any given time year, 0:22:36.080 --> 0:22:38.840 and these guys get around. So there are a lot 0:22:38.840 --> 0:22:42.320 of examples of sharks that were captured off the coast 0:22:42.480 --> 0:22:47.000 of like uh, New England and then released and then 0:22:47.119 --> 0:22:49.359 later on in the year end up in the Bahamas, 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:51.879 which tells us that the plot to Jaws for is 0:22:51.880 --> 0:22:57.679 a little more realistic than I had anticipated. Much. It 0:22:57.760 --> 0:23:00.959 does have you know, any movie that has Michael Kaine 0:23:01.000 --> 0:23:03.960 and you have to, you know, figure, well, maybe there's 0:23:03.960 --> 0:23:07.520 more legitimacy than I originally thought. Did it explain Michael 0:23:07.560 --> 0:23:12.760 Caine's instant clothing drying technology? It did not, nor did 0:23:12.800 --> 0:23:15.480 it go into detail about how you could ram a 0:23:15.520 --> 0:23:18.720 sailboat through a Great White shark. But at any rate 0:23:18.920 --> 0:23:22.280 spoiler alert by the way, um at any rate, it 0:23:22.600 --> 0:23:25.879 is really neat, and you can actually track lots of 0:23:25.880 --> 0:23:27.800 different sharks. You can see all of them at once. 0:23:27.920 --> 0:23:30.359 You know, essentially they're all like these dots in the ocean. 0:23:30.520 --> 0:23:33.840