Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing
Speaker 1: from my Heart Radio. Professional sports have a way of
Speaker 1: turning mere mortals into legends. As a football obsessed kid
Speaker 1: myself in the nineteen seventies, there were a few players
Speaker 1: more exciting to watch than Dallas Cowboys quarterback Roger Staubach.
Speaker 1: He was nimble, strong, and man could he throw a football.
Speaker 1: Starbuck earned the nickname Captain America in part because of
Speaker 1: his four years of service in the Navy, including a
Speaker 1: tour in Vietnam. He won a Heisman Trophy while at
Speaker 1: the Naval Academy. He was inducted into the Football Hall
Speaker 1: of Fame in and he was awarded the Presidential Medal
Speaker 1: of Freedom in two thousand eighteen. Roger star Back played
Speaker 1: eleven seasons with the Cowboys, leading them to the Super
Speaker 1: Bowl four times. They won under Starbuck in seventy two
Speaker 1: and seventy eight, and Roger was Super Bowl m v
Speaker 1: P in nineteen seventy two. Starbucks Cowboys had nearly two
Speaker 1: dozen comeback wins in the fourth quarter, many of them
Speaker 1: in the final two minutes of a game or in overtime.
Speaker 1: When he retired in nineteen eighty, Roger Starbuck had one
Speaker 1: of the highest career passer ratings in NFL history. After
Speaker 1: he left pro ball, he built the Starbuck Company, one
Speaker 1: of the most successful corporate real estate companies in the country.
Speaker 1: Competition comes naturally to Roger Starbuck. Well, you know, the
Speaker 1: competitive side. Looking back, people have said a lot about
Speaker 1: you know that that knew me when I was growing
Speaker 1: up and everything. And I was an only child, lived
Speaker 1: in Cincinnati, Ohio, and my parents were great, and they
Speaker 1: you know, really I kept saying that, you know, I
Speaker 1: like to have a brother or a sister, because all
Speaker 1: of our neighbors had, like the Bean family down the street.
Speaker 1: There was nine Beans and and everybody they were brothers
Speaker 1: and sisters. So I wanted to be an athlete, and
Speaker 1: I started playing basketball. I started playing baseball and football.
Speaker 1: I didn't get started until I was in the seventh grade.
Speaker 1: And I really wanted to do it to have my
Speaker 1: parents proud of me, and so it was. Uh so
Speaker 1: I really was competitive on trying to be the best
Speaker 1: that I could be at what I was going to do.
Speaker 1: And you know, there's an old saying there's no traffic
Speaker 1: jams on the extra mile, And I always feel that
Speaker 1: I've given that extra in sports. And it started that way,
Speaker 1: and it started because of my parents and I wanted
Speaker 1: them to be proud of me. And so I was
Speaker 1: a pretty decent baseball player and basketball player. And then
Speaker 1: in the seventh grade I went out and made the
Speaker 1: football team. I was a running back and then I
Speaker 1: was a receiver and and then the coach at in
Speaker 1: our high school switched me to be quarterback and changed
Speaker 1: my life. I didn't really want to be a quarterback,
Speaker 1: but my dad told me as a baseball player, one
Speaker 1: time the catcher got hurt and they were gonna put
Speaker 1: me then a catcher, and I said, I don't know
Speaker 1: put that equipment on. It's you know, too hot out here.
Speaker 1: And he just said, just try to be the best
Speaker 1: catcher you can be. And so so I caught for
Speaker 1: about nine years after that. And I had the same
Speaker 1: thing when when coach McCarthy wanted me to be the quarterback,
Speaker 1: I said, you know, I'm going to try to be
Speaker 1: the best quarterback I can be because I and and
Speaker 1: it really changed my life because I don't think i'd
Speaker 1: be here on the show, I like if I hadn't
Speaker 1: started to play quarterback. So I was very competitive, and
Speaker 1: a lot of that was because I wanted my parents
Speaker 1: to really be proud of me as far as what
Speaker 1: I did in sports. And was it also a case
Speaker 1: because I know that in my childhood I'm the opposite.
Speaker 1: I got three brothers and we would be There was
Speaker 1: a nine whole public golf course, very famous, little spot
Speaker 1: in our in our neighborhood, but there were little seams
Speaker 1: along the fairway where the lay of the of the
Speaker 1: whole would leave a little margin of land off to
Speaker 1: the side, and they had a tree line that would
Speaker 1: keep the balls from going into people's houses and going
Speaker 1: through their windows, you know, over the fence and in
Speaker 1: this spit of land that was our Dallas Stadium. That
Speaker 1: was our meadow lands. That was where we played football.
Speaker 1: And my mother would scream at us. She'd scream because
Speaker 1: if she if she stuck her head out the door
Speaker 1: of our house, we were right across the streets. She
Speaker 1: yelled for us to come home because we would play
Speaker 1: football till it was dark. But it was me and
Speaker 1: my brothers, and like the beans. We had other neighbors
Speaker 1: who had a lot of kids, and we don't get
Speaker 1: together and play touch pick up football we were football junkies,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Was it also for you
Speaker 1: of things where this is where you could hang out
Speaker 1: with other guys, This is where you could have brothers,
Speaker 1: This is where you could have the kids in your
Speaker 1: life more regularly that you didn't have at home. Oh,
Speaker 1: sure it was. When I went to St. John's grade school,
Speaker 1: sports were away for us to be together is uh
Speaker 1: and and even on the playground, you know, we would
Speaker 1: play tackle the man with the ball, and I was
Speaker 1: always uh heart. I really was hard to tackle sometimes
Speaker 1: with the ball. So I went to St. John at Banship,
Speaker 1: so it was a grade school, was a Catholic grade school,
Speaker 1: and I had a nun in the third grade. I
Speaker 1: learned right away, I better get with it. Sister Ala
Speaker 1: Wishes got me up against the wall and had me
Speaker 1: hold my hands out and I had to hold something
Speaker 1: in my hands, and she was tough, but she really
Speaker 1: made a difference in my life and taught me that
Speaker 1: I better get with it. I better make sure I
Speaker 1: do my homework and and so it really helped to
Speaker 1: have people that made a difference in your life. And
Speaker 1: she was making sure that I was doing what I
Speaker 1: was supposed to do, and my mom and dad were
Speaker 1: both working, and uh I had a really strong influence
Speaker 1: with the nuns at St. John's Evangelists, especially sister Ella Wishes.
Speaker 1: I still can see her. I can still see her
Speaker 1: pushing me against Roger. Roger, you you better, you better
Speaker 1: do this, or you're gonna stand holding your hands out
Speaker 1: in this wall all day. And and anyway that that.
Speaker 1: Those were the good things that helped helped me a
Speaker 1: whole lot. And it carried over into sports because I
Speaker 1: was going to try to do the best I could
Speaker 1: possibly do in sports, and we had our grade school teams.
Speaker 1: I think we really cared about each other and I
Speaker 1: learned a lot about teamwork. So it was really kind
Speaker 1: of growing up and trying to do the best that
Speaker 1: I could do based on what people were telling me,
Speaker 1: and and also making my parents proud of me. So
Speaker 1: I stayed with it. And when I was switched a
Speaker 1: quarterback in football, my life changed. I um, I did
Speaker 1: okay at quarterball. Yeah you did okay at quarterball? Just okay,
Speaker 1: by the way, Yeah, I don't want you to get
Speaker 1: too big ahead. Well you know we lost a Super
Speaker 1: Bowl too, Well, we don't we want us to me,
Speaker 1: We don't remember that I've been very humbled in in
Speaker 1: my life and sports too. So if you're playing a
Speaker 1: different position, if you're running back, throwing is such an art.
Speaker 1: It's such an art. And when my arm wasn't so
Speaker 1: messed up my old I used to love to throw
Speaker 1: a football. I used to carry a football in my
Speaker 1: car in Los Angeles and with my brother Stephen was
Speaker 1: with me. If we were in a traffic jam on
Speaker 1: the then tour, if we get out of the car
Speaker 1: and throw the football in the highway, just out a
Speaker 1: boardom with it would be like, you know, some pile
Speaker 1: up somewhere. Throwing a football was something that I was
Speaker 1: obsessed with most of my youth. So when you were
Speaker 1: a running back, what was you weren't a picturer in baseball?
Speaker 1: What was throwing for you? Had you been throwing before
Speaker 1: the gave you the nod to be a quarterback? You know,
Speaker 1: we we haven't rehearsed anything before. We're talking here and well,
Speaker 1: you're Alex, You're you're right on the change in my
Speaker 1: life when I they switched me to quarterback is because
Speaker 1: coach McCarthy and coach Cincheck I saw that I was
Speaker 1: a really good baseball player. I could throw the baseball
Speaker 1: and and he just said, he said, Roger, sometimes it
Speaker 1: seems like the players listened to you, but we, uh,
Speaker 1: we know you've got a good arm, and we want
Speaker 1: you to play quarterback. And so it was my senior
Speaker 1: in high school when I when I really first played quarterback.
Speaker 1: My junior year I played. I was all defense, and
Speaker 1: but it was because of my arm. He saw it
Speaker 1: me playing baseball and he's the one that uh talked
Speaker 1: me into playing quarterback. And he didn't talk me into it.
Speaker 1: He said, hey, you're you're gonna work at quarterback. For you,
Speaker 1: I'll never forget. Montana came to the set of a
Speaker 1: TV show. I was working on thirty Rock with Tina
Speaker 1: fe for years and Montana came on the show and
Speaker 1: they brought him to my room to meet me. And
Speaker 1: I said, to my goh my god, what did you
Speaker 1: do to train your arm? Was it? Was it waits?
Speaker 1: What was your thing? And and if I think he
Speaker 1: was being serious, I don't think he was messing with me.
Speaker 1: He said he got a length of medical tubing, like
Speaker 1: some kind of flexible rubbery tubing and had that fastened
Speaker 1: with a handle with a grip of some kind into
Speaker 1: a doorway and he would stand in a doorway and
Speaker 1: just rotate his arm and that throwing motion back and
Speaker 1: forth to condition me do like a thousand reps of
Speaker 1: that just to strength and literally the throwing motion. What
Speaker 1: was back then your physical conditioning? Like during the season,
Speaker 1: were you weight lifting, were you what was what did
Speaker 1: you do to strengthen your arm? Well, back in those days,
Speaker 1: it really wasn't in vogue as far as weightlifting and
Speaker 1: sports where you just went out and played. We had
Speaker 1: baseball practice all the time. We had basketball practice, and
Speaker 1: and of course we had football practices. So it was
Speaker 1: really at the practices and in the What what I
Speaker 1: had was was I did have a baseball arm, and
Speaker 1: I kind of when I threw, I had a little,
Speaker 1: you know, a motion whereas a quarterback you want to
Speaker 1: get rid of the ball, you get keep it up
Speaker 1: by the ear. And I didn't really achieve that as
Speaker 1: as well as I should. But I had a good
Speaker 1: throwing motion, uh, And I had I had a good
Speaker 1: velocity on the ball. That made up for maybe that
Speaker 1: little hitch I had thrown the ball. But I uh,
Speaker 1: you know, learned to throw on a bit on my
Speaker 1: own and uh and coaches did work with me on
Speaker 1: trying to keep the ball up a little bit, you know,
Speaker 1: instead dropping it. But that was from baseball. But it
Speaker 1: still comes down to whatever you do and how you throw.
Speaker 1: You've got to believe in yourself. And uh and there's
Speaker 1: some you know, quarterbacks that are great passers that don't
Speaker 1: actually you know, throw the way they're supposed to. And
Speaker 1: I was in kind of in the middle of not
Speaker 1: exactly throwing the way I should as a quarterback. I
Speaker 1: threw more as a baseball player. But it worked, and I, uh,
Speaker 1: I really started to to really fall in love with
Speaker 1: being a quarterback. I all of a sudden, I really
Speaker 1: liked being a quarterback. Now, when you were people I've
Speaker 1: spoken to uh in in the modern era, they would
Speaker 1: say that throwing a ball was as much engaging their
Speaker 1: core and exercising their strengthening their core and their legs.
Speaker 1: They strengthened their legs that well, I'll never forget one
Speaker 1: guy said that my favorite line. He said, you can't
Speaker 1: shoot a cannon out of a canoe and you got
Speaker 1: a strengthen your leg get your your legs all nice
Speaker 1: and strong, and get a good base below you and
Speaker 1: a good foundation below you in your core. And he goes,
Speaker 1: and you and you just launched that thing, he says.
Speaker 1: He said, I'll never forget this guy said to me.
Speaker 1: He goes, I closed my eyes, and you stand twenty
Speaker 1: yards away from me, and I'll throw the ball to you.
Speaker 1: I'll throw a few to get the whole timing, and
Speaker 1: I'll sense where you are, because then I'll close my
Speaker 1: eyes and I'll be able to tell you whether the
Speaker 1: past was good or not by the way it felt
Speaker 1: coming out of my hand, he said. I can tell
Speaker 1: I could feel the way my body torud and way
Speaker 1: my arm would come, the way I could throw, you know,
Speaker 1: to say all that, Alec, the thing that I did,
Speaker 1: I worked out all the time, and I was careful
Speaker 1: on throwing. You didn't want to over overdo it. And
Speaker 1: you know, I warmed up and I tried to, you know,
Speaker 1: make sure my arm was ready. I worked out. I
Speaker 1: was crazy about working out, and I used to go
Speaker 1: out if there was just one other receiver, I would
Speaker 1: still act like I was taking a snap and dropping back.
Speaker 1: I just didn't just didn't stand there to row the ball.
Speaker 1: I really, uh, no, matter what you what, you have
Speaker 1: to do in life. You gotta work hard to get there. Yeah. Now,
Speaker 1: everybody who's an NFL fan its every detail of your story.
Speaker 1: And when it came time for you to go into
Speaker 1: the Naval Academy, you must have known, of course that
Speaker 1: you owe them the service at the end. Correct, you
Speaker 1: knew that was coming. Yes, So when you go to
Speaker 1: the Naval Academy and you win the title, and you
Speaker 1: the Big Game and you get the Heisman Trophy and
Speaker 1: the NFL comes calling, was that all a big surprise
Speaker 1: to you? Well, going to the Naval Academy, I wasn't
Speaker 1: sure what, you know. I did have some scholarship offers
Speaker 1: after high school, but I really played that just that
Speaker 1: one year. It was my first year at quarterback, and
Speaker 1: we didn't throw a whole lot. We I actually ran
Speaker 1: more um and so I wanted to get more experience.
Speaker 1: And I wasn't sure what I wanted to do, but
Speaker 1: I liked the Naval Cademy. I visited there and then
Speaker 1: they told me they said, hey, Roger, you know, we
Speaker 1: would like for you to go to junior college one year.
Speaker 1: And when the best things I ever did, I went
Speaker 1: to Roswald in Mexico and I went to New Mexico
Speaker 1: Military Institute. I shot a film It to Me, which
Speaker 1: is a really fine school, and it's it's a military
Speaker 1: It gave me the at least the warning about the
Speaker 1: things I had to do in the military when I
Speaker 1: became a plea at the Naval Academy. But it also
Speaker 1: I played another year at quarterback and we really had
Speaker 1: a good football team. We were a junior college team.
Speaker 1: We had a coach named Robert Shaw, who was a
Speaker 1: former NFL player and he and he really helped me
Speaker 1: a lot at my quarterback position, and and I got
Speaker 1: better Instead of level and offer or something, I got
Speaker 1: better there and I had a real good, uh junior
Speaker 1: college period, and I decided I definitely wanted to go
Speaker 1: to the Naval Academy. And I wasn't looking at someday
Speaker 1: I was going to play pro football. I was I
Speaker 1: wanted to get an education and also be able to
Speaker 1: play sports. And I figured that someone better better stay
Speaker 1: on me to make sure I got the education. And
Speaker 1: I was fortunate to be able to get a chance
Speaker 1: to go there and play football, and I actually played
Speaker 1: baseball there. For all four years at Navy, I played
Speaker 1: baseball and football, and obviously I got a great education,
Speaker 1: and I got to learn a lot about the military,
Speaker 1: and I spent four years in the military before I
Speaker 1: joined the Dallas Cowboys. Now, what year do you enter Annapolis?
Speaker 1: You go to the Naval Academy? What year? I went
Speaker 1: in sixty one? So when I graduated high school in
Speaker 1: sixty I went from high school to the New Mexico
Speaker 1: Military and Student and I went to the Naval Academy
Speaker 1: and in nineteen sixty one. So when you're there in
Speaker 1: sixty one, the Vietnam War is not what it was
Speaker 1: about to become. When you go into the Naval Academy,
Speaker 1: you go in one end and you come out that
Speaker 1: tunnel on the other end in Vietnam becomes a very
Speaker 1: very real thing. And so when you go in, I
Speaker 1: guess it's sixty five, I'm assuming you start your service.
Speaker 1: But when you come out of the Naval Academy and
Speaker 1: you're a star collegiate a fleet, will you sit there
Speaker 1: kind of going oh God? You know, like I got
Speaker 1: to go to Vietnam? Now for four years? Was it?
Speaker 1: We were you less than smiling about that? You know?
Speaker 1: I went to Vietnam just for one year. Where'd you
Speaker 1: go after that? I went to the Penncacal Naval Air Station.
Speaker 1: I was a logistics officer, a supply officer. I was
Speaker 1: partially color blind, and that limited me. I was not
Speaker 1: able to go Navy line or be a be a pilot.
Speaker 1: But I was very fortunate I became a Navy logistics
Speaker 1: officer and when I went to Vietnam, I wasn't out
Speaker 1: there getting shot at. I was in the Dunang and
Speaker 1: Chula and we we at that time the Marines occupied
Speaker 1: the I Corps area South Vietnam, and those early years there,
Speaker 1: we supported the Marines and took care of the Marines.
Speaker 1: And in fact I lived at Camp Tinshaw and I
Speaker 1: had a couple of my teammates. They were Navy seals.
Speaker 1: The seals are pretty new at that time. We were
Speaker 1: living together in Camp Tinshaw, right and near to Dunang,
Speaker 1: and so I asked him they were coming back one
Speaker 1: day and I said, where have you guys been? What
Speaker 1: are you doing? Said, hey, listen, stop back. You are
Speaker 1: our quarterback, and we listened to you. You were our leader.
Speaker 1: But we cannot tell you where we've been, but we
Speaker 1: know we're doing a hell of a lot more than
Speaker 1: you're doing right now, And so I said, well, yeah, thanks, guys,
Speaker 1: I said, I'm quite a bit, but I I admit
Speaker 1: I wasn't out there right smack in the middle of everything.
Speaker 1: But I wanted to serve that year in Vietnam because
Speaker 1: we were at war there and you know, the troops
Speaker 1: that were there, and being able to serve them and
Speaker 1: being with them meant a lot to me in the
Speaker 1: four years I had in the service. Now you go
Speaker 1: to Dunangu there for a year, you come back to Pensacola,
Speaker 1: you said, correct, Pensacola in Pensacola, and then your military
Speaker 1: service is over. Your four years out of your term
Speaker 1: in the academy. So I'm guessing you're twenty six years old.
Speaker 1: How old were you at that point? I was twenty
Speaker 1: six and when I joined the Cowboys. Yeah, right, So
Speaker 1: in the seam in between, you finish your military service
Speaker 1: and you're gonna go join the Cowboys. Who tells you
Speaker 1: that the NFL wants you to come back and start again.
Speaker 1: After my junior at Navy, I was drafted, uh, which
Speaker 1: was a kind of a surprise by Dallas in Kansas
Speaker 1: City that the league hadn't merged yet, and you know,
Speaker 1: I was drafted late. You know, they were just betting
Speaker 1: on the fact that that I might try to play
Speaker 1: again or something. But they both drafted me. And then
Speaker 1: when I graduated, my wife and I we got we
Speaker 1: get married then, and I was stationed at the Naval
Speaker 1: Academy for a few months, and I got a call
Speaker 1: from Lamar Hunt who said, Roger, I would like to
Speaker 1: come up and talk to you. And I said yes,
Speaker 1: Mr Hunting. He said yeah. I said, if you, if
Speaker 1: you ever decide you want to play football someday, we
Speaker 1: want you to play for the Kansas City Chiefs. And
Speaker 1: and because I was drafted by Dallas, I guess there
Speaker 1: was you know, there was that that that issue. And
Speaker 1: so he came and what a nice person he was.
Speaker 1: You know, at the time, I was getting like four
Speaker 1: d and twenty dollars a month as an encon and
Speaker 1: and uh he offered me a five hundred a month,
Speaker 1: ten thousand dollar check, hundred thousand dollar bonus if I
Speaker 1: left after my four years and played for Kansas City.
Speaker 1: So he was looking to the future. And so I
Speaker 1: told Navy a captain who was a legal officer, Navy
Speaker 1: Captain Paul Borden, and I said, Captain Born, can I
Speaker 1: do this? And I you know if I signed this,
Speaker 1: and he said, let me look into it. He came back.
Speaker 1: He said, Roger, you have to give your four years
Speaker 1: and you can do whatever you want after those four years.
Speaker 1: And nothing wrong with you know, taking the money now
Speaker 1: if they want to give it to you, you don't
Speaker 1: have to You don't have to leave the service. And
Speaker 1: he said, but did you have you talked to Dallas
Speaker 1: and he and I said no, and he said, well,
Speaker 1: let me call him. So he called gil Brandt or
Speaker 1: he got ahold of guil It was Gil brand He
Speaker 1: talked to who was guilbrand for as soon as they
Speaker 1: don't know. Lamar Hunt was the owner of the Chiefs
Speaker 1: who wanted the Cowboys then Clint Murkison, and Gil Brandt
Speaker 1: was his right hand. Gil's was really uh Mr Football
Speaker 1: that and he was in charge of all the drafting
Speaker 1: and everything. And so he said, yeah, we we loved
Speaker 1: we we'd like to talk to you. So Captain Borden
Speaker 1: went and met with the Cowboys and they offered to
Speaker 1: say they said they do the same thing. So I agreed.
Speaker 1: Then if I ever played again, I'd play for Dallas.
Speaker 1: And then I called Mr Hunt back and you know,
Speaker 1: told him, and he said, well, Roger, we were just beginning.
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to you more. And I said, well,
Speaker 1: I think he was kidding when he said that. He
Speaker 1: just said because it wasn't he big. It really wasn't
Speaker 1: that big of a deal I had four years ago.
Speaker 1: I wasn't sure I was going to ever play again.
Speaker 1: When I got back and I was stationed at Pensacola,
Speaker 1: I took leave and want to Dallas training camp the
Speaker 1: year before I was able to if I was going
Speaker 1: to leave the service of it been my fourth year.
Speaker 1: I was with the rookies and people there for two weeks.
Speaker 1: I really did fine, and Coach Landry gave me a playbook,
Speaker 1: which was amazing. So that's when I realized I was
Speaker 1: going to play again. And and then I told the
Speaker 1: Navy that after my four years, I was going to
Speaker 1: go play with the Dallas Cowboys. I went back to
Speaker 1: Pensacola for a year and I studied my playbook on
Speaker 1: when I could, and I joined the Cowboys in n
Speaker 1: Did you contemplate staying in the Service, Oh, I did.
Speaker 1: I enjoyed the service, and I felt a little guilty
Speaker 1: of but but I I served the time I was
Speaker 1: responsible for my four years. I felt I was a
Speaker 1: lucky person to get to get that, and at seven
Speaker 1: I was still was able to play eleven years in
Speaker 1: the NFL. NFL Hall of Famer Roger Starbuck. If you're
Speaker 1: fascinated by what it takes to be a world we
Speaker 1: now an athlete, check out my conversation with tennis legend
Speaker 1: John McEnroe. It turned out that I wanted it lot
Speaker 1: more than I realized, or I was able to do
Speaker 1: more than I thought I was capable of in terms
Speaker 1: of digging deeper and emotionally sort of accepting the challenges
Speaker 1: step by step. It took me a long time, you know.
Speaker 1: Part of the reason I acted the way I did.
Speaker 1: Let's be honest, it's like that fear of failure. Guys
Speaker 1: don't cry type of thing, and if you show that,
Speaker 1: that's a sign of weakness. So it was sort of
Speaker 1: to protect myself so they'd be like, what is this
Speaker 1: guy's crazy? Here More of my conversation with John McEnroe
Speaker 1: at Here's the Thing dot Org. More with Dallas Cowboys
Speaker 1: quarterback Roger Staubach. After this, I'm Alec Baldwin and you're
Speaker 1: listening to. Here's the thing. Dallas Cowboys quarterback Roger Staubach
Speaker 1: retired in the NFL and its players have changed a
Speaker 1: lot since then, but Roger Starbucks says if he were
Speaker 1: starting now, he'd still have it. Oh no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I definitely feel I could play today. I mean if
Speaker 1: I was, if you're starting, yeah, yeah, I would really
Speaker 1: enjoy the NFL. They really have gone to trying to
Speaker 1: make sure that there's more passing. Back in our era,
Speaker 1: the blitzes and the things that they did, we ran
Speaker 1: the ball more, we didn't. We didn't throw it, and
Speaker 1: you could hit receivers. The ball wasn't in the air.
Speaker 1: You could hit them, you know, knock them around. And
Speaker 1: so they made the rules change that did improve the
Speaker 1: passing game. The players are bigger than faster, but the
Speaker 1: position like quarterback. I mean in my year, I could
Speaker 1: us throwing the ball as hard as these guys are today.
Speaker 1: And I was a runner to you know, I didn't
Speaker 1: have crazy speed or anything, but but I knew how
Speaker 1: to run in So I I think I could have
Speaker 1: fit in fine with today's rules. But I but I
Speaker 1: guess in some sense that never goes away, does it?
Speaker 1: Like someone said to me, I mean, and I was
Speaker 1: not a great football player. You mean like I was
Speaker 1: a wide receiver. I was a skinny kid. And as
Speaker 1: the guys that I played high school football with, and
Speaker 1: they were the stars of my football team. They were
Speaker 1: the gods of my high school. Steve Forenza, who was
Speaker 1: the quarterback of our football team, who won two championships
Speaker 1: in a row. He beat our cross town rival, which
Speaker 1: was I'm from Massapequa, Long Island, and they had two
Speaker 1: high schools. My father taught at one and was a
Speaker 1: football coach of the freshman football program. My dad played
Speaker 1: football at s U. He was like a third string
Speaker 1: fullback at SU. He played a boys high in Brooklyn.
Speaker 1: He was a running back. And my dad was a
Speaker 1: big football person. And my point is is that I
Speaker 1: go to dinner with these guys and they said to me,
Speaker 1: you know, you didn't have a chance when you stepped
Speaker 1: on the field to play football as a freshman in
Speaker 1: ninth grade. We'd all already played a hundred games of
Speaker 1: peewee football. We'd already played a hundred games before you
Speaker 1: put the pads on to play your first game. And
Speaker 1: I went out there and I played football and these
Speaker 1: guys hit each other like they were grown And the
Speaker 1: brutality and the and the and I don't want to
Speaker 1: say viciousness, but the but the the commitment. These guys
Speaker 1: would go flying through the air and stick their forehead
Speaker 1: and the other guys stern him and knock him on
Speaker 1: the ground. The tackling and the hitting. Forget about the
Speaker 1: running and the grace and the athleticism and the throwing
Speaker 1: and catching and stuff within the timing, the toughness, the
Speaker 1: physical toughness of this guy, these guys was just absolutely
Speaker 1: mesmerizing to me. However, I don't start. I don't play
Speaker 1: high school football. Well, I'm I'm not good enough to
Speaker 1: play to start with these guys. But my point is
Speaker 1: I still can't watch an NFL game where my legs
Speaker 1: starts to twitch and my toe starts to tap. And
Speaker 1: I turned to some let's go outside the street and
Speaker 1: go throw the football like you makes you you never
Speaker 1: lose the desire to play, am I right? Yeah, that's correct?
Speaker 1: And I still, uh, my right arm is still in
Speaker 1: pretty decent shapes. I can't throw the ball as cars
Speaker 1: I used to, but I can still throw decently. Some
Speaker 1: people are you know when you're seventy nine years old.
Speaker 1: I still throw with our our kids and grandkids. Now
Speaker 1: you play in the NFL, and obviously everything is in
Speaker 1: the records. You win two Super Bowls. And my friends
Speaker 1: who have won Oscars, the first thing they say when
Speaker 1: they go home and they process the euphoria of winning
Speaker 1: an Academy award, this pinnacle in your career. Supposedly they
Speaker 1: lay their head down on the pillow and the and
Speaker 1: the thing that they're thinking is they're going to sleep
Speaker 1: that night. Is I gotta get my hands on a
Speaker 1: second Oscar because a lot of people have an Oscar,
Speaker 1: but not many people have two Oscars. I want to
Speaker 1: be in the the two Oscar club, the double club.
Speaker 1: Now the same is true for you when you won
Speaker 1: the Super Bowl? Was it sweeter for you and more
Speaker 1: gratifying when you won the second time? Well that I
Speaker 1: think the first time was it was you know, Coach
Speaker 1: Landry was when I was stilling in the service, when
Speaker 1: they were you know, they lost those tough ones to
Speaker 1: Green Bay and Don Meredith was really a fine quarterback
Speaker 1: and uh, in fact, he retired when when I joined
Speaker 1: the Cowboys, or else I wouldn't have I don't know
Speaker 1: what it would have happened if if Don Mereth would
Speaker 1: have stayed there with the Cowboys, because I played behind
Speaker 1: Craig Morton and for for a while, you know, looking
Speaker 1: back on there were some really tough losses that that
Speaker 1: the Cowboys had, and so I think the first Super
Speaker 1: Bowl win because we were you know, coach Landry was
Speaker 1: criticized he couldn't win the big game and the Cowboys
Speaker 1: couldn't win the Big game. Winn't winning that game. It
Speaker 1: really made a difference in in Cowboy history more than
Speaker 1: the second time we won the Super Bowl. That that
Speaker 1: that was great. That too, We almost had a different
Speaker 1: team than too. We had some just great players that
Speaker 1: won the first one, and we uh, we've we added
Speaker 1: some a lot of guys retired and we added some
Speaker 1: other players when we won the second one against Denver,
Speaker 1: and we had in between we had the Steelers twice.
Speaker 1: Steelers were really good in the seventies and we lost
Speaker 1: twenty one to seventeen and thirty five to thirty one,
Speaker 1: and uh, those were almost as bad as losing the
Speaker 1: Army Navy game. Steve Kirk. Yeah, so we we were
Speaker 1: a winning team the whole eleven years. We we were
Speaker 1: in the playoffs every year but one. And uh so
Speaker 1: we were in five Super Bowls, and the first one
Speaker 1: I was on the bench, but you know we were in.
Speaker 1: I did play during the season at times, but the
Speaker 1: other two that we won were big deals. I mean,
Speaker 1: coach Landry's greatness really showed and how he built a
Speaker 1: team from scratch to to winning a couple of Super Bowls.
Speaker 1: So it would have been nice when we want a
Speaker 1: few more. But you know, winning too wasn't all that bad.
Speaker 1: Roger the Dodgers Starbuck. If you're enjoying this conversation, be
Speaker 1: sure to follow Here's the Thing on the I Heart
Speaker 1: radio apps, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts when
Speaker 1: we come back. Rogers Starbuck was about life after the NFL.
Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing.
Speaker 1: In seventy one, the Dallas Cowboys had a quarterback controversy
Speaker 1: with its two starters, Craig Morton and Roger Staubach. Long
Speaker 1: time Cowboys coach Tom Landry went so far as to
Speaker 1: have Morton and Starbuck alternate plays. I asked Starbuck if
Speaker 1: this was common back then, No, it wasn't, and I
Speaker 1: you know, quarterbacks have a responsibility of not only physically
Speaker 1: about throwing and all what they have to do, but
Speaker 1: their leaders. And uh so our team was a bit divided.
Speaker 1: You know. Craig was a real fine quarterback and very
Speaker 1: tall courter. H We actually played each other in college,
Speaker 1: and so he was on the Cowboys for four years
Speaker 1: and when Don Meredith retired, Craig took over. And so
Speaker 1: really it it just came down to making a decision
Speaker 1: that you know, the quarterback is not just going in
Speaker 1: and out throwing the football, and their leaders and so
Speaker 1: the team was a bit divided. We had really a
Speaker 1: good team, that's seventy one team. If he would have said, okay,
Speaker 1: Craig is going to be the starting quarterback, we still
Speaker 1: would have been successful. It's just that one thing. I
Speaker 1: love coach Landry, So that was a bit confusing, uh
Speaker 1: to Craig and I when he made that decision to
Speaker 1: we actually alternated plays. It wasn't just the game itself,
Speaker 1: and that was not a I don't think that was
Speaker 1: a great decision, but coach Landry. But in the in
Speaker 1: the television program Football Life, the One about You, Landry
Speaker 1: asked Morton to come to his house and then in
Speaker 1: a pretty clipped way to a pretty kind of direct
Speaker 1: and cut to the chase way, says, we're going with Roger.
Speaker 1: Thank you drive. He wants to say to a man
Speaker 1: to man, face to face. I mean, was Morton just
Speaker 1: do you think he was just stupefied? What do you
Speaker 1: think he knew it was coming? Well, first of all,
Speaker 1: Craig Morton is a classy guy. He I'm sure it
Speaker 1: hurt him. He did not. He supported me the whole time.
Speaker 1: And the next year I got hurt, I separated my shoulder,
Speaker 1: and he took over and we really had a good year.
Speaker 1: We went to playoffs. So Craig was, I think we
Speaker 1: had a mutual respect for each other. He sure, he
Speaker 1: sure supported me when coach Landry made that that tough
Speaker 1: decision that allowed me to play the starting quarterback. So,
Speaker 1: you know, Craig was. I can't say enough nice things
Speaker 1: about Craig. Well, I'm assuming though, that you you educate
Speaker 1: me about this that that you come in and it's
Speaker 1: kind of the advent of the more mobile quarterback. You
Speaker 1: were more mobile than Morton? Correct, Yeah, I would say, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was. You know, I mean I ran a lot
Speaker 1: so a lot. Craig was not no runner. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I you know that that probably helped, but uh, it
Speaker 1: still was a passing game. And I think coach just
Speaker 1: said we can't have two quarterbacks. That that that this
Speaker 1: dividing the team. I I think half the team was
Speaker 1: behind me and probably half the team was behind Craig.
Speaker 1: And you want the whole team behind somebody, one leader,
Speaker 1: one leader. Now, what do you think it was that
Speaker 1: made Landry a great coach? Give me a couple of
Speaker 1: things about him. His qualities had made him so great? Well,
Speaker 1: the coach was really creative. And he when he was
Speaker 1: with the Giants as a player, and he I think
Speaker 1: he was a defensive coach there back then that you
Speaker 1: had the great teams like the Green Bay Packers and others,
Speaker 1: they they would have a three man backfield. Maybe one
Speaker 1: person would would line up on in a tight situation,
Speaker 1: but most of it was three people backfield. And when
Speaker 1: he took over for the Cowboys, he really was creative.
Speaker 1: And what he said, I need to put together an
Speaker 1: offense that really messes up the defense. And that's when
Speaker 1: we put in the slot formations and and the people
Speaker 1: in motion in the five. We put in the shotgun
Speaker 1: formation that we used on third down and down by
Speaker 1: the goal line. Everybody thought we were crazy, and I
Speaker 1: love that shotgun and I but it helped me because
Speaker 1: if I did run, I could at least see, you know,
Speaker 1: instead of dropping back, and if I had the ball,
Speaker 1: I could so So Coach Landry was really creative as
Speaker 1: far as what he did, and he still was in
Speaker 1: charge of the offense and the defense, and I think
Speaker 1: his creativity was unsurpassed in the NFL. I think a
Speaker 1: lot of teams end up copying some of the things
Speaker 1: that the coach Landry initiated. He was a very very smart,
Speaker 1: great coach, and he was also really a fine human being.
Speaker 1: You know some sometimes uh He and I had a
Speaker 1: few disagreements now and then, but he always wanted what's
Speaker 1: funny is I mean, I would imagine some of your
Speaker 1: success is due to a good coach, Like if a
Speaker 1: guy comes up, it's a combination of your physical gifts,
Speaker 1: it's a combination of your ethic, it's a combination of
Speaker 1: your teammates. But then on top of that, there's a
Speaker 1: there's another layer, which is coaching. If it really helps,
Speaker 1: it's hard to go all the way it's hard to
Speaker 1: win the big game. It's hard to have a great
Speaker 1: season if you don't have a good coach. Is that true?
Speaker 1: That's correct. Yeah. And just like my senior in high school,
Speaker 1: coach changed my life when he when he put me
Speaker 1: in a quarterback, and uh, we were a winning team
Speaker 1: and uh can's you know, our coaches had had a
Speaker 1: lot to do with it, and uh and we had
Speaker 1: some great players that both on offense and the defense.
Speaker 1: It was it was. The seventies were good time for
Speaker 1: the Cowboys, except when we were playing the Steelers. I
Speaker 1: grew up where it was like the game was coaching.
Speaker 1: Like you'd see Stram on the side and you go, God,
Speaker 1: I love this guy. The kind of anomaly like Tarkington,
Speaker 1: who was a little guy running around. You ran around,
Speaker 1: and you ran effectively. I mean, being a football junkie,
Speaker 1: I'm always playing these games. Starbuck versus Tarkington two great scramblers.
Speaker 1: Now if Starbuck runs effectively and Tarkington ran out of
Speaker 1: desperate ation. He was desperate not to get smashed because
Speaker 1: he was so small, you know. But any player, you know,
Speaker 1: the Dolphins and and Marino who never got a ring,
Speaker 1: and I worshiped him and kicking Zonka. These teams of
Speaker 1: guys and Mercury Morris, I mean, teams that just get
Speaker 1: the wind under their wings. They just take off and
Speaker 1: have a great season, you know what I mean. But
Speaker 1: what I want to ask you is, who's a quarterback
Speaker 1: among many? I'm sure, but dude, who's a quarterback that
Speaker 1: you always admired their throwing motion? Who somebody you thought, God,
Speaker 1: look at that guy throw that ball. Well, I don't
Speaker 1: have anyone on like throwing motion. But in today's quarterback world,
Speaker 1: we can we cannot deny what Tom Brady has been doing.
Speaker 1: I mean, uh, not only was successful with Patriots, but
Speaker 1: in one year he goes to Tampa Bay and takes
Speaker 1: him to the super Bowl and wins the Super Bowl.
Speaker 1: So I can't argue with anybody that says Brady inconceivable.
Speaker 1: Actually what he's done for week quarterbacks? Uh, he he's
Speaker 1: something special. Well for for us who are New York fans,
Speaker 1: who always have even if it's a kind of a
Speaker 1: measured and more subtle, uh you know, feeling towards Boston
Speaker 1: and toward New England. I've always been kind of ridding
Speaker 1: my teeth about the Patriots and when he was there.
Speaker 1: For New Yorkers, we always say to ourselves that Brady
Speaker 1: went into the devil in the men's room at an
Speaker 1: airport somewhere, and some transaction was made in that men's room.
Speaker 1: I don't I agree with you. And I'm a fan
Speaker 1: of Bill Belichick's and his his dad coached at Navy.
Speaker 1: And I remember Bill when he was he was just
Speaker 1: a kid. I was used to be out there throwing
Speaker 1: the football sometimes. I think he was at practice after school.
Speaker 1: And and so I, uh of course followed him and
Speaker 1: followed Brady through. Uh I'm you know, I'm the Cowboys
Speaker 1: are my my favorite team. I just want to throw
Speaker 1: that in there. But but but I've I've I was.
Speaker 1: I've been a fan of Bill Belichick's also, and and
Speaker 1: so I don't know what happened there. Some deal was
Speaker 1: made with the devil. Gotta be Now, let me ask
Speaker 1: you this, married to the same woman for fifty years,
Speaker 1: five kids, super Bowl champion, Heisman Trophy winner. I mean,
Speaker 1: you are probably one of the two or three most
Speaker 1: heroic sized football players, if not athletes, in history. And
Speaker 1: here you are this amazing person who I'm told you
Speaker 1: went into the real estate business, initially because you wanted
Speaker 1: to make some money. You weren't getting paid all that
Speaker 1: much money in the football game. And is that correct.
Speaker 1: You started in real estate as a side job. Well,
Speaker 1: I I did, yes, but I it wasn't just strictly
Speaker 1: in the off season. And that's how I got started.
Speaker 1: And then I when I retired, I started my own company.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I got involved with real estate. And part
Speaker 1: of it was the fact is that we had three
Speaker 1: children born in the Navy, and we added two more
Speaker 1: on Texas soil, so we had a family of five.
Speaker 1: And my first year's salary with the Cowboys was twenty
Speaker 1: five dollars, which back then it was it was okay.
Speaker 1: But I I did work in the off season for
Speaker 1: h for the Henry Miller company. You're right and that,
Speaker 1: but I understand that since then the real estate game
Speaker 1: has gone quite well for you. Correct, Yes, it uh yeah,
Speaker 1: but it was it was over, you know, thirty forty
Speaker 1: years we we sold our company to the Starbuck Company,
Speaker 1: was sold to Jones Lying Less Hole, which is j
Speaker 1: l L. But you build a good company, we did, yeah,
Speaker 1: and and and the Starbuck people that are they're working
Speaker 1: at JLL have done great there and it's uh so,
Speaker 1: I spent ten years with when we sold the company,
Speaker 1: and uh so, I've been involved real estate a long
Speaker 1: long time, and but it's you know, it's part of
Speaker 1: my life and making sure I could My wife and
Speaker 1: I we we've been married, actually fifty six years. She
Speaker 1: she's gonna say, hey, Alex and fifty six I apologize.
Speaker 1: Tell your wife, I apologize for Let me just say this,
Speaker 1: which is that with your legendary image, Captain America, all
Speaker 1: this stuff with your legendary image is a sports figure
Speaker 1: and just a style with citizen everybody. Just I'm sure
Speaker 1: it was I saw this on the show. They were
Speaker 1: all hectoring you about going into politics and running for office,
Speaker 1: and you said that that didn't interest interest you. Were
Speaker 1: you ever tempted? Now? I mean, you know, I really
Speaker 1: when I started working in the off season, I was
Speaker 1: committed to work in the real estate. And then I
Speaker 1: started my own company, and and uh I said, well,
Speaker 1: you know, what can I run for politics? What am
Speaker 1: I gonna do walk away from my company? And uh
Speaker 1: so I had a game plan that was outside of politics,
Speaker 1: and that was to participate in the business world. Well, listen,
Speaker 1: I want to say to you, And I really mean this.
Speaker 1: I mean sports occupy a place in people's lives which
Speaker 1: enters their lives in a very unique way. As you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, even though movies became very important to me
Speaker 1: and loving movies, but before that, you asked somebody, I
Speaker 1: didn't want to be Humphrey Bogart. I didn't want to
Speaker 1: be Carry Grant. I wanted to be Nameth. I wanted
Speaker 1: to be uh, Jimmy Brown. I wanted to be uh,
Speaker 1: you know, United, And I wanted to be you. And
Speaker 1: you know that the way that sports get into your
Speaker 1: blood and get into your in terms of the excitement
Speaker 1: watching a great NFL game, even with a team that's
Speaker 1: not a great team. You know, any given Sunday, you
Speaker 1: know they can rise up and they can beat that
Speaker 1: other guy. All these NFL teams there's some parody there,
Speaker 1: some have the upper hand. And watching you over these
Speaker 1: years and watching your career from when I was very young,
Speaker 1: you really are one of your You're probably one of
Speaker 1: the three or four greatest sports figures in history. I mean,
Speaker 1: you really are such an inspiration to people. How you
Speaker 1: lived your life. You know, the Catholic boy from Cincinnati
Speaker 1: who goes on to marry. We're married to the same woman,
Speaker 1: five kids, Naval Academy, Heisman, two Super Bowls, the whole,
Speaker 1: the company, the whole shebang. You've had such a great,
Speaker 1: great life. I hope you're as content as people imagine
Speaker 1: you would be with what you've done with your life. Well,
Speaker 1: I thank you, Alec. It's I've been fortunate with the
Speaker 1: people in my life, and UH still feel that way.
Speaker 1: I got lot of a lot of great friends, and
Speaker 1: you're sure appreciative of just being around. Dallas Cowboys quarterback
Speaker 1: Roger Staubach. We're produced by Kathleen Russo, Carrie donohue, and
Speaker 1: Zach McNeice. Our engineer is Frank Imperial. I'm Alec Baldwin.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing. Is brought to you by my Heart Radio.