1 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,439 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom never told you. From how stupports 2 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: dot com. Hello, would welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen 3 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: and I'm Caroline, and today we're chuckling the science of 4 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: saggy boobs. That's right, it's just a part of life. 5 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, boobs, they sag, yeah, you know. And 6 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: and the thing is people might hear, you know, the 7 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 1: science of saggy boobs and just safe ladies, ladies, ladies. 8 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 1: Just gravity, right, yeah, just that theory of gravity just 9 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: pulling down in your boobs, dan and day out. But 10 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: that's wrong, and those people think that those people are wrong. 11 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: I can see why you would think that. Sure, I mean, 12 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 1: gravity does pull things down, you know, yep, you know, 13 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: like if you take your bra off, let it go, 14 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: it will likely drop to the floor because that's gravity. 15 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: And that and if that's what Newton had discovered gravity through, 16 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: I realized I just like really screwed up the syntax 17 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: of that. But like, if a bra had fallen on 18 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 1: his head instead of an apple, Oh man, where was Newton? 19 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 1: He was having a good old time? Would he have 20 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: kept that secret? Although I guess it wouldn't have been 21 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 1: a bra back in his day, it would have been 22 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 1: like pantlets or of course, yeah, and you know, depending 23 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:23,759 Speaker 1: on the type of course that it was, it might 24 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: have hurt even more than an apple for that. And 25 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:28,759 Speaker 1: have you ever been hit in the face with whale bone? 26 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: How many times have I been hit in the face 27 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:35,320 Speaker 1: with whalebone? Carolina constantly? It's weird here in the Sminty studio. 28 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: We just have old timey underpants always flying around. It's 29 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: like one of those you know, wind machines with the 30 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: money in it, just instead of it, just imagine like 31 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: paper bills flying around. There are corsets, whale bones, bras, 32 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: knitting nar walls. Yeah, we should really wear protective gear 33 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: in here. Honestly, I'm wearing my en sing outfit, so 34 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 1: my face is protected, buddy. So we're we are here. 35 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: We promised to talk about saggy boobs, not just the 36 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: things that hit us in the face on a daily basis. Well, 37 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: and maybe in order to get serious we should switch 38 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: from the colloquialism of saggy boobs and get more clinical 39 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: with tosis. Yes, which is a scientific term for bobs. Yes, 40 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:30,239 Speaker 1: it's breast toosis. Because typically if you just searched for tosis, 41 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,679 Speaker 1: you're just gonna get a saggy eyelid. Wait, is this 42 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 1: a Google image search? Yeah, well it's just a Google 43 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:40,799 Speaker 1: in general, we'll point you more directly to the sagging 44 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: of the eyelid, eyelid tosis, But in this case, we're 45 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 1: talking about breast ptosis, breast toosis, breastosis, which does sound 46 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:51,119 Speaker 1: like it should be like, all one word, what would 47 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:55,799 Speaker 1: breastosis be? It almost sounds like halatosis. Oh, if you 48 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: have stinky boobs. Oh no, that can happen the sun. 49 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 1: Let's be honest, dude, I know, dude, I know. And 50 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: they're actually degrees of sag. There are six degrees of tosis, 51 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: like six degrees of separation from Kevin Bacon. There are 52 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: six degrees of your boobs sagging off your chest. And honestly, 53 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 1: I was somewhat disheartened to learn this because I feel 54 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: like it's just pathologizing our our tosis, which, by the way, 55 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: is felt like it looks like it could be pronounced potosis, 56 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: which I have pronounced a potosis before because that's more 57 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: fun to say. Um and uh. There are even diagrams, 58 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: helpful diagrams you can know just just what exactly is 59 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 1: not perfect about your own boobs. And we're looking at 60 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: one of those diagrams right now here in the studio, 61 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: and uh, it's a it's a white lady with some 62 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: brown hair shown of course in a profile with their 63 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: their breast just one boob. You can only see one 64 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: of her boobs. And I was gonna say a uni 65 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: boob instead of a unich horn. But uni boob is 66 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: the thing when you wear like a two tight sports bra. 67 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: Or is that mono boob? I think mono boob uni boob. 68 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: I think they're synonymous listeners let us know for wrong anyway, 69 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: but don't let me in her rupt or maybe she's 70 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: an Amazon, you know. Oh yeah, because she lopped off 71 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: her other boob so she could better shoot arrows. There 72 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: we go, anyway. And this highly scientific tosis diagram shows 73 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: this uh like lady clone essentially flopping each of her 74 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: single boobs over a tight rope to to evaluate what 75 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 1: angle her nipple points to. Yeah, and I mean they 76 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 1: point out what is quote unquote normal as being regardless 77 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 1: of your boob size and shape, it's when the nipple 78 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 1: and the bulk of the tissue sits above the crease 79 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: that's under your boob a k. The inframamary fold. But 80 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: you know, Christen and I had a discussion a while 81 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: back about like, well, wait, wait, wait wait, if if 82 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: it's a boob, it's normal. Like boobs are normal, your size, 83 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: your shape, wherever they're pointing, if they're askew, if they're 84 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: cross whatever, they're normal. Even if you've got three or 85 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 1: four more. Yeah, if you have a whole row of them, whatever, 86 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: it's you, it's normal. Um. And so jumping off of that, 87 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: I actually tried to search online dig up some information 88 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: on like, Okay, boobs have always been around, and therefore 89 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,039 Speaker 1: they've always stagged at some point or another to one 90 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 1: degree or another. So who came up with this like 91 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:43,679 Speaker 1: sagging ptosis diagram here where it does look like these 92 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,840 Speaker 1: drawings of women they've just draped their boobs over like 93 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: a ballet bar. Yeah, and I couldn't. I couldn't find 94 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,840 Speaker 1: anything because I just wanted to know. In everything we study, 95 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,839 Speaker 1: there's always an origin story, right of like someone who 96 00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:00,479 Speaker 1: quote unquote discovered the condition pathologized it, like wrote the 97 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 1: diagram and all the rules, and whether it's something that 98 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: like legitimately needs to be treated by a doctor, or 99 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: whether it's something that just women feel insecure about and 100 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: they don't need to feel insecure about it. But I 101 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: couldn't find any any like tosis treatment origin story. Uh, 102 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 1: you know, I think it's a solid bet that it 103 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: was a dude. And I would love slash not love 104 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 1: to meet the guy who you know, leaves the work 105 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:27,720 Speaker 1: rushes to the bar to meet up with his friends. 106 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: And it's like dudes Illa discovered discovered saggy breast today 107 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: it was it was me I discovered them. Well, let's 108 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 1: like our episode on the CLITTERI is about men discovering 109 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:44,039 Speaker 1: the clitter is like they had just struck gold in 110 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 1: California anyway. So I'm sorry I don't have that information 111 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: for you listeners. I would love to provide it. Yeah, 112 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: And I mean, if anyone knows that the origin of 113 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 1: this diagram, there's got to be someone, like we have 114 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: some really smart listeners. Well, the thing is too, as 115 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about in the second half of 116 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:06,719 Speaker 1: the podcast, it the answer might be many different probably men, 117 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 1: and I say probably men because of course the earliest 118 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: doctors were men. But as we'll talk about more, there 119 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: is a cultural lens through which our definition of normal 120 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: boob is defined or portrayed or interpreted or depicted in 121 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: helpful cartoons like this one that we're looking at. Um. 122 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: So once you start sagging, you've got grades one to 123 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: three of boob saggage, one being mild, three being severe. Uh. 124 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: Then you have something called parenchymal mal distribution, which to 125 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: me sounds like a Harry Potter spell. Um, but it's 126 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: basically when your boob has a quote unquote unusual shape. Um. 127 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: They define it as a lack of fullness in the 128 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: lower part of the breast, a high inframamory fold so 129 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: that ballet bar would be real high up under your boob, 130 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: and a short infra memory fold to nipple distance. So 131 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: there's that. I mean, I think it's now tempting in 132 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: the same way that you can practice like the eyeliner 133 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: liquid liner winged look by putting an index card, you know, 134 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: up against your eye as a guide. I'm now tempted 135 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: to take an index card to my boob and see 136 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: what what what my line is? I did? I did 137 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: stand sideways in the mirror after after this to be like, 138 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: you know, I I don't know if my boobs are 139 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: are hanging low. If they're wobbling to and fro, can 140 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: you tie them in a knot? Can you tie them 141 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 1: in a bow? So I stood to the side and 142 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: and looks like everything is above the infra memory fold. 143 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: Excellent news. So you would get a grade one? Uh No, 144 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: I think I'd be normal. I'm not sagging. Oh you 145 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: don't get great at all. See you know what as 146 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 1: a real grade rubber in school? I would like you. 147 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: You would want to be an INN for normal? What 148 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: about an A for aspirational awesome? Boobs? Bob? And I'm 149 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 1: an a b um. There are some distinctions though, because yeah, 150 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: I bet y'all didn't know that you can get this 151 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 1: deep into Saggy breasts are welcome, Oh boy. There are 152 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: a lot of nuances, such as toss shouldn't be confused 153 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 1: with atrophy, which is simply the loss or shrinking of 154 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 1: tissue from lack of use, and of course that applies 155 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 1: to any type of tissue, not just your breast, such 156 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: as um if you wear a cast. I don't know 157 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: why this always tickles me. Someone wearing a cast and 158 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: takes when they finally get it removed, their arms all 159 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:51,199 Speaker 1: shriveled and pale from why does it disuse? Why does 160 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: it tickle you? Like I said, I don't know, You're like, hey, 161 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: I love when you have a shrunken limp, Like you 162 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: get a little little baby arm like that Kristen Wig 163 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:08,199 Speaker 1: character on SNL. But those are like baby hands anyway. Um, 164 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:10,839 Speaker 1: but anyway, you've also got false SAgs. So like we're 165 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 1: never safe because you either have real SAG stage one 166 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: to three or you've got false SAG which can actually 167 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: then lead to real sag ortosis. This is also named pseudotosis, 168 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 1: which is the fancy name for false SAG. And this 169 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: is coming from and actually kind of great website. So 170 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: you know how like when you're convinced that something's wrong 171 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:32,719 Speaker 1: with you and you're dying, you got to web m 172 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: D and you're like, I don't know what it is, 173 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: and you just convince yourself that it's cancer. Well, there 174 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: is a website out there where actual, real medical professionals 175 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: can respond to your concerns. And this particular website was 176 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: one for plastic surgery and cosmetic surgery concerns. And a 177 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 1: woman had posted pictures of her breasts and was like, 178 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: do I have atrophy or tosis what's going on? And 179 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: doctors Donald W. Kress and Lorie Salt actually gave her 180 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: some great answers, and they pointed out that she had pseudotosis. 181 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: And they explained that this occurs when those anchoring ligaments 182 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,959 Speaker 1: of the breast that you know, attach them to your chest, 183 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: your Cooper's ligamat Yeah, Cooper's ligaments are still intact, so 184 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: that the support structure is still there, but the breast 185 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: itself has defilated like a sad birthday balloon on Monday morning. 186 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 1: And they explain that pseudotosis is not true atosis because 187 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: going back to our cartoon diagram, the nipple is still 188 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 1: at or above that inframamary fold even though the lower 189 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: part of the breast is sagging. So their final diagnosis 190 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: is what, um that you should go get a breast 191 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: lift and an implant. Of course. Yeah. See, I wish 192 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: that we could set up our own website like this. 193 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:55,839 Speaker 1: People can send us their photos of you know, the 194 00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 1: their their volva's or breasts or whatever of you know, 195 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 1: the female anatomy, their cankles. Congratulations, you're normal and human. Yeah, 196 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: everyone would just get a gold star and just be like, yeah, snow, 197 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 1: you get a Snowflake award because they would get an 198 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: end for normal. I mean because if pseudo toasis is 199 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: a thing, like you said, we can never win. And 200 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 1: also I'm going to take issue with their whole Cooper's 201 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: ligaments reference because there is controversy over whether those Cooper's 202 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: ligaments are really supporting the breast, because a lot of 203 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:34,599 Speaker 1: doctors today think that Cooper's ligaments merely divide our breasts 204 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: into compartments, kind of like when you peel an orange, 205 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 1: you have those uh oh wow, that face that Caroline 206 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 1: is making it was incredible. Imagine imagine your boobs an 207 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: orange and your Cooper's ligaments are like the those what 208 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: this is like the white things, the fiber. It's pith, 209 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 1: That's what it's the the orange. Pith divides the fruit 210 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: into the wedge. Is kind of like our Cooper's likamens 211 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: do for our breasts. Interesting, I'm learning so much today 212 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: and that should be a song. You boob is lack 213 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 1: an ounge, people, girl, it's just the pith. You're the 214 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: pithyist um. Okay, Well, so people are dying to know 215 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: what causes it, then, well we're going to tease them 216 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: a little bit more and first tell them what doesn't 217 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:25,560 Speaker 1: cause it. That's right, because there are a lot of 218 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 1: assumptions out there that, like you hit on one at 219 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: the beginning. Gravity. Everybody seems it's just gravity that you 220 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: get old and gravity takes its toll and your boobs 221 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 1: hit the floor. And of course gravity contributes to that. 222 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 1: But it's a myth that it's only gravity. Also a 223 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 1: myth that breastfeeding will make your boob stack. Yeah, there 224 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: have been several recent studies that have myth busted that 225 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 1: it's not breastfeeding alone. It's well, I mean pregnancy though, well, 226 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: we'll mess with it, but not the act of breastfeeding. Yeah. 227 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: It's also a myth that pregnancy weighting by itself is 228 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: a major risk actor fortoss weight gain and maintaining a 229 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: higher weight is to a degree, but not pregnancy weight 230 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: gains specifically. And the idea that if you don't exercise 231 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:13,679 Speaker 1: enough for your upper body that that will somehow cause 232 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:17,560 Speaker 1: boob saggage. Not so. And also a big one that 233 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: we need to knock out is the question of two 234 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: bra or not too bra and whether that influences how 235 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: much your boobs will sag. Because some listeners might remember 236 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: a French study that went viral a few years ago, 237 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: which based on a very small sample size, found a 238 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 1: correlation between wearing a bra and sagg ear breasts. And 239 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: of course, because the internet and um science quote unquote 240 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: reporting is what it is, headlines abounded claiming take off 241 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: your braws, they're making your breast sag and in fact 242 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: that was not what the study authors were claiming at all. 243 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 1: There's no way that you can extrapolate such a conclusion 244 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 1: as that, and wearing braw or not wearing a bra 245 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: probably will have no impact whatsoever on how much your 246 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: breasts will toasis will test a size toast um. Okay, 247 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: but things that are big risk factors. Let's start off 248 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: with aging, right because aging, in general, you see the 249 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: skin and its support structures start to lose its elasticity 250 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: over time, and so in the same vein, things that 251 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: speed up aging could also potentially speed up the saggage 252 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: of your boobage. Things like smoking and sun tanning. In 253 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: other words, anything that breaks down skins collagen and the 254 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 1: protein alastin which helps, you know, make you all bouncy 255 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: and youthful and shiny as a young person. Anything that 256 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: breaks down that good helpful stuff is going to contribute 257 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: to your skin in general, and also your breast tissue sagging. 258 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: And of course weight will affect the shape and size 259 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: of our breast, So things like significant weight loss, higher 260 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: b m I s and larger brock cup sizes are 261 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 1: associated with more atosis because when you gain weight, for instance, 262 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 1: your skin and internal support structures may stretch, and conversely, 263 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: when you lose weight, your boobs might sag if you 264 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: don't have enough elasticity to regain their shape. Yeah, and 265 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: not pregnancy itself, but the number of pregnancies overall is 266 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: related to ptosis. So basically, during pregnancy, your breath become 267 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: engorged while you're pregnant and then nursing, and then they 268 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: decrease in size and droop and this droopage, saggage, tosi, 269 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: sage gets worse with every pregnancy. But the factors if 270 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: we just look at an isolated boob away from these 271 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: like in the wild, yes, bob in the wild. Away 272 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: from these contributing factors such as weight gainer loss, or 273 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: pregnancy or smoking, the main things that will determine how 274 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:07,880 Speaker 1: how perky your breasts are or are not. Where your 275 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,679 Speaker 1: nipples are pointing where it hangs over that tight rope 276 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:16,640 Speaker 1: are your amount of skin elasticity, and really the ratio 277 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: of your breast tissue to fat. And the higher ratio 278 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: you have of that, the firmer and perkier they will be, 279 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:28,200 Speaker 1: so higher on the breast tissue, lower on the fat. Yeah. 280 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: And one reason, big reason why we, you know, experience 281 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: stosis as we age is because as we get older, 282 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: a lot of that breast tissue is converted to fat. 283 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: So our breast just get fattier over time. That's really 284 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:48,400 Speaker 1: what's happening. And for as much stress as we might 285 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:53,640 Speaker 1: feel and put on ourselves about our own personal tosis, 286 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: it's all in our genes. We can't really fight it, 287 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: just like cellulite. I mean those two like the left 288 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 1: city and your breast density, that all traces back to 289 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: your jeans. Yes, yeah, So look at your mom, look 290 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: at your grandma, look at your dad, look at you, 291 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 1: look at your dad, look at your dad, and then 292 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: look to your future and then get that index card. 293 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: Draw a line from your intra memory fold to your nipple, 294 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: get your boob tight rope. I love this. I love 295 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 1: this little cartoon even more now that you said that, 296 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: now that I imagine, it's just like a little boob circus. 297 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: All right, lady flop Amova, let's see dot um. We 298 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 1: didn't mention that there is one other cause, and that's 299 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: congenital sagging. And that's when girls, young girls who are 300 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: developing breasts. Originally, when they developed breasts, that sag with 301 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 1: downward pointing nipples, which again that just sounds to me like, oh, 302 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:52,920 Speaker 1: you just developed breasts, yeah, and yours point. They're looking 303 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 1: in a different direction than maybe your best friends are. Yeah. 304 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 1: Who what were we talking about? What episode was it 305 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: and us Free the Nipple where we mentioned some cultures 306 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 1: where it's super common to sunbathe nude or go to 307 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 1: the spa nude or whatever, on and on and on 308 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: and how in those societies women tend to report higher 309 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:18,120 Speaker 1: levels of body confidence because they're they're simply more used 310 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: to seeing other women's bodies and knowing that all of 311 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,120 Speaker 1: these variations on a theme are normal. Yeah, they see 312 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 1: more breasts in the wild. I mean, seriously, if you 313 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 1: want to give your can we get Richard Attenborough? Is 314 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,679 Speaker 1: it Richard or David? I guess David Attenborough one of 315 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,120 Speaker 1: the Attenborough's to narrate that documentary Breast in the Wild 316 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 1: and he lecy through the No, I'll just pay you instead, Okay, okay, sold. 317 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: But we need to take a closer look at the 318 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 1: pregnancy factor because there was a study from in the 319 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 1: Annals of Plastic Surgery which found of patients who had 320 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: been pregnant, at least one reported adverse changes in breast 321 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: shape after pregnancy. Yeah, so I guess there something that 322 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: is normal, which is your breasts changing shape, your your 323 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: whole body is changing shape throughout your life. But I mean, 324 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:17,359 Speaker 1: I guess that can be a bummer if you're not 325 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: expecting it well. And it to me, it reminds me 326 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:25,360 Speaker 1: of our conversations on your so called pre baby body 327 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: and trying to get that back and the fact that we, 328 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 1: I think, just like culturally are blind to how pregnancy 329 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 1: just naturally changes a woman's body and it's not like 330 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:40,880 Speaker 1: there's a body of ours that we like left behind 331 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: like a coat somewhere to gross skin suit. Um. Yeah, 332 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: along those same lines, I mean, everything you just said 333 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: sounds so nice and normal and comforting that I did 334 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:54,920 Speaker 1: find a terrifyingly worded study from the British Journal of 335 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:59,159 Speaker 1: Plastic surgery, which said end I quote pregnancy and lactation 336 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 1: maybe followed by a total collapse of the structure of 337 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:06,119 Speaker 1: the breasts, particularly if an unusual degree of enlargement takes place. 338 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: That sounds horrifying, right, a total collapse of the structure 339 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 1: of the breast. Yeah, I'm I'm just imagining like a 340 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:16,399 Speaker 1: building demolition, Like those are your boobs, It's about to happen. 341 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: They're imploding. You give birth and a cloud of dust 342 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 1: goes up from your chest. It's the worst. I apologize 343 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 1: to everything. That's one thing that we never talked about 344 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 1: in the delivery room or the exploding breast, you know, 345 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:33,399 Speaker 1: everywhere everywhere. That's why those surgeons have to wear yeah, 346 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: some protective I wear. Yeah. Well, so what is going 347 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 1: on with this supposed collapse of boob structure? So basically, 348 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: you've got all of the enlargement that happens thanks to 349 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:50,400 Speaker 1: your pregnant body, uh, that stretches and disrupts those Cooper's 350 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:55,160 Speaker 1: ligaments allegedly Allegedly, I am such a Cooper's ligaments skeptic 351 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: over interesting, we should do a specific episode about Cooper's ligaments. 352 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,360 Speaker 1: I had no idea. So all that enlargement also stretches 353 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,439 Speaker 1: the skin, which can contribute to wrinkles, stretch marks, and 354 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: again loss of support, which leads to this thing called 355 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 1: postpartum involution. You might also know the word involution from 356 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 1: another post pregnancy thing, which is when your uterus shrinks 357 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 1: back down. Uh, involution just means the shrinkage of an organ, 358 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: and so the same thing is happening in your boobs. 359 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 1: So I wonder though again, and if there is anyone 360 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:31,719 Speaker 1: listening who knows the answer, please tell me, because this 361 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: is one of those issues where there is not a 362 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 1: ton of reliable information, especially if you're going through Google. 363 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,879 Speaker 1: It's a lot of plastic surgery website and a lot 364 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: of Yahoo answers, and a lot of Yahoo answers, and 365 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 1: a lot of older academic or scientific studies that are 366 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: very hard for my brain to get through. And I 367 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: don't mean to disparage myself. I simply mean that, like, 368 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: I don't know what it's saying. Oh yeah, Well, in 369 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 1: the nineties seventies, UH, there were a number of doctors 370 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 1: who were concerned about the braw less trend at the 371 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:10,199 Speaker 1: time and how it might affect women's breast because this 372 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: is also a period when most doctors you would see 373 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 1: would be men too. Um And I want to say 374 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 1: that it might have been in the American Medical Association 375 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 1: Journal where there was a fantastic um uh letter exchange 376 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: from doctors just very worried about women's braw less breasts. 377 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,360 Speaker 1: That is such a good point, that makes so much 378 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 1: sense because a lot of the studies that I did 379 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:42,120 Speaker 1: find that we're kind of in depth. I didn't want 380 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: to review two closely because they were from the seventies. 381 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: And so you know, in any episode that you and 382 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:50,119 Speaker 1: I do where we are talking about health stuff, you 383 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,439 Speaker 1: never want to rely on something that's really old. You 384 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 1: want to like try to get the latest information. So 385 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 1: I sort of was like, why is there all this 386 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: stuff from the seventies. I'm not going to read all 387 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: this stuff. I mean, I have a only that that 388 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: is the first time that doctors really started paying closer 389 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,479 Speaker 1: attention to women's breast well. I mean, I wonder if 390 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: it's the first time that everybody was seeing boobs not 391 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:15,440 Speaker 1: in their like rocket shaped braziers, in the pointy braziers 392 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:20,880 Speaker 1: of the um well. I mean, because similar to how 393 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: we are still learning things about the internal structures of 394 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:30,719 Speaker 1: our vaginas and clitterisas we've been studying breasts only slightly longer. 395 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: I mean, it wasn't until the nineteen nineties that researchers 396 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: started to figure out the biomechanics of how female breasts 397 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:43,680 Speaker 1: move around. So is there any boob science scientists out there? 398 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:45,679 Speaker 1: I would like to hear from you and know what 399 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:47,639 Speaker 1: the state of your research is, because I think we 400 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: need more of it, because I want that Cooper's ligaments 401 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: questions settled once and for all. Well, I know, and 402 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: and and I'm glad you brought it up because I 403 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 1: legitimately had not read anything that questioned the role of 404 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: the Cooper's ligaments. That's what I'm here for, I know, 405 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: to contribute things about ligament calling out shoddy bob science, 406 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:13,959 Speaker 1: shoddytosis troubles. Yeah, talk about some pseudotosis. That's right, ladies, 407 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 1: Um okay, Well, so when euce does involution occur? Well, 408 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: in the next big hormonal stage of our life, menopause, 409 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 1: the fund never stops. So as women age and especially 410 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:31,359 Speaker 1: after menopause, our milk producing glands in our breasts called 411 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: lobules close up shop. They pack up, they head home. 412 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 1: Did they move to Florida like other old folks. Yeah, 413 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: we'll move into Florida, getting all lobules and our suitcases 414 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: and we're going to Florida. Ah. This is called lobular 415 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: regression or lobular involution. And it's interesting to see that 416 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:56,119 Speaker 1: both hormone replacement therapy and prior pregnancies do affect the 417 00:25:56,119 --> 00:26:01,719 Speaker 1: progression of involution. So went three of women in this 418 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 1: one study who had never used hormone replacement therapy experienced 419 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:12,400 Speaker 1: complete involution Compared with just of the women who had 420 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:17,719 Speaker 1: undergone hormone replacement therapy, seven percent of women who had 421 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:23,159 Speaker 1: never had children experienced complete boob shrinkage involution. Sorry, I 422 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,159 Speaker 1: don't mean to be glib. Compared with just eight of 423 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 1: the women who had had four children, they found that 424 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 1: women who had had more than three kids ended up 425 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,640 Speaker 1: retaining more lobules. Okay, So why did I just throw 426 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: all that at you? Why did I just read those 427 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 1: statistics about lobs some lobule facts. There we go. Um, 428 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: it's to talk about breast cancer. Sorry for the tone shift, 429 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 1: but basically, according to the Mayo Clinic in two thousand six, 430 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: women who experienced complete involution of the breast had half 431 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 1: the risk of breast can there than those who don't. 432 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 1: And that makes sense because breast cancer is thought to 433 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:09,199 Speaker 1: originate in our lobules, so people who have smaller and 434 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,159 Speaker 1: or fewer lobules are at a lower risk. And of 435 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 1: course this is not the only factor when it comes 436 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 1: to breast cancer. Of course there are more factors, because 437 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:18,639 Speaker 1: I know that. When I was reading this, I was 438 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: confused for a minute because I thought, well, wait, I 439 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:25,359 Speaker 1: always thought that pregnancy itself was a protective factor, that 440 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 1: the more pregnancies you did have, the lower your chance 441 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,439 Speaker 1: for breast cancer. But that's just another hormonal piece of 442 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 1: the breast cancer puzzle. So I, by no means want 443 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: to indicate that like, if you never have kids and 444 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 1: never use hormone replacement therapy, you're going to be totally fine, 445 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 1: because obviously there's more to it than that. But those 446 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 1: are some interesting tidbits. So this is all of a 447 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: signs and all of these factors that can influence the 448 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 1: shape of our breast. But of course we are often 449 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:59,680 Speaker 1: sold so many ideas about how our breasts should look 450 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 1: and steps that we can take to make them look 451 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,680 Speaker 1: like those aspirational boobs, and we're going to talk about 452 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 1: that when we come right back from a quick break. 453 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 1: All right, so listen, there is no amount, no amount 454 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: in the world of push ups or pull ups or 455 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:33,680 Speaker 1: rowing or anything that's gonna give you big, perky boobs. Yeah, 456 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: exercises cannot influence the shape of your breasts, which is 457 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 1: unfortunate for people who have read Are you there got 458 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 1: to see Margaret The exercise she does for you. Must 459 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,719 Speaker 1: you must, you must increase your bust of what is it? 460 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 1: You put your push your palms together and flex. We're 461 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: doing it right now, listeners in the studio. We're flexing 462 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 1: our pecks. We are we are flexing the peck. Yes, yeah, 463 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 1: Because all of those exercises you do to benefit your 464 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 1: bust um, to boost the bust. It's gonna boost your 465 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 1: pectoral muscles, which are under your breasts, but it's not 466 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: going to lift or firm those sacks of breast tissue 467 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 1: and fat that sit on top of the pectoral muscles. 468 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: Our sacks are just our sacks, you know. We've just 469 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 1: got sacks of facts too. Nice but nonetheless, in the 470 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: same way that there are myriad exercises and creams and 471 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: pills that we can supposedly take to erase our cellulite. 472 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 1: Same goes for all sorts of herbs and creams that 473 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: are supposed to firm and smooth our breasts. But the 474 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 1: thing is, anything topical that you rub all over your 475 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 1: boobs is not going to magically seep in and restructure 476 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 1: your tissue or that density of fat tissue to breast tissue. 477 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 1: And the thing is, if it could, the FDA might 478 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 1: be a little concerned. Yeah, And if it, yeah, exactly, 479 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 1: and if it does promise to do that, you can 480 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: pretty much rest a shirt. It's fake. And that if, 481 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: like you said, if it was real, if it did exist, 482 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: it would cost a million dollars and probably be sold 483 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 1: by one of those fancy lisition companies that celebrities always 484 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 1: tout in magazines like La Prairie or Lamare that sell 485 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,239 Speaker 1: for like over three dollars, so they could sell like 486 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: la boob la boob, La boo bay, La boo bay. 487 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 1: But yeah, breast assured, it won't work. Have you been 488 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: holding onto that one? It just came to my mind 489 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:45,239 Speaker 1: and I just wanted to make sure I used it 490 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:51,479 Speaker 1: before it evaporated. Um. And again, the whole broth factor 491 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 1: isn't going to fix in quotes or prevent any toastis. Although, 492 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 1: as we're going to talk about in our next episode 493 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 1: titled sports boobs, sports bras are very important to where 494 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 1: during exercise because when we run around, our breast don't 495 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 1: just bounce up and down or side to side. They 496 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 1: oscillate in a figure eight motion. And it's it's just 497 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:20,719 Speaker 1: good for our breast tissue to keep them supported with 498 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:26,959 Speaker 1: sports bra it hurts. Oh yeah, boob bouncing hurts a 499 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 1: lot um act in fact. Okay, well, so there are 500 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:35,440 Speaker 1: things that are helpful when it comes to I don't 501 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: even breast help breast aging, like to keep them happy 502 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 1: and healthy as they age. And it's really like the 503 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: same advice for keeping your whole being happy and healthy 504 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: as you age, which is like eat healthy, drink lots 505 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 1: of water, get physical activity and quit smoking and watch 506 00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: sun tanning. Yes, watch sun tanning, watch your eight all 507 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 1: of those basic things I mean. And when it does 508 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 1: come to surgery, and I wavered on whether to even 509 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,120 Speaker 1: talk about this because it's I don't want to appear 510 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: to be like encouraging surgery. But I did get this 511 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 1: information from go ask Alice, which is the Columbia University 512 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 1: Columbia University advice site that has all great things to 513 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 1: say in terms of body advice, health advice, sex advice 514 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 1: is fabulous. I was like, Wow, left, go ask Alice 515 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 1: skin talk about it. We can talk about it well. 516 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 1: And breast lifts and reductions are like physically necessary for 517 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 1: a lot of women. I mean, I know women who 518 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 1: have really large breasts who are either saving up for 519 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 1: reduction surgeries are still kind of debating it just because 520 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 1: it's it can be tough to get around and certainly 521 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: exercise and stay healthy. Yeah, for sure. So as far 522 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 1: as the surgical options for TOSASCO, you can get breastleft 523 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 1: surgery that removes extra skin and extra breast tissue. It 524 00:32:56,360 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 1: also tightens and lifts the remaining skin, and or can 525 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: involve getting implants as well. But this is really only 526 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 1: a stop gap because your ligaments and your skin it's 527 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 1: going to stretch again over time, and so that newly 528 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: perky pair is still just going to start looking down 529 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 1: to the floor eventually. And it also is worth keeping 530 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 1: in mind as the Go ask Alice people point out 531 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 1: that if you are just thinking about getting implants because 532 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 1: you feel like your breasts are sagging too, far, that's 533 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 1: still only going to fill them out, it's not going 534 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 1: to lift Yeah, I mean, and I think that this 535 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: is where we get to the question of whether we 536 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: are more motivated by cosmetic appearance, which obviously, like, there's 537 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 1: nothing wrong with being concerned about how your breasts look. 538 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,479 Speaker 1: I think it's it's a natural thing. Um. But if 539 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 1: you're looking for surgery purely for cosmetics because we think 540 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 1: our breasts should look a certain way, or if our 541 00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 1: ptosis is causing us physical pain and problems, and probably 542 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:09,440 Speaker 1: sussing out the two is even more challenging because there are, 543 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,880 Speaker 1: you know, so many layers to what we think our 544 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 1: breasts should look like. Because of course there's our personal taste, 545 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 1: maybe our sexual partners personal taste, what we might see 546 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:26,160 Speaker 1: in pornography, um, and just societally what um, what we're 547 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:30,719 Speaker 1: taught looks good, yeah, or what we thought looked good 548 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:32,960 Speaker 1: when we were cave people. Oh, yes, there's always the 549 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 1: cave people. I feel like we need a bell or 550 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,920 Speaker 1: we need some sort of sound effect to indicate when 551 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,680 Speaker 1: we're about to talk about evolutionary biology theory because we 552 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 1: always do and I always like, I always like it, 553 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 1: and also raise an eyebrow at it because it always 554 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 1: makes sense to degree, but I'm always I always make 555 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:58,440 Speaker 1: sure to like remain a little bit skeptical. Um, but 556 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 1: boobs are a different when it comes to having an 557 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:06,600 Speaker 1: EVO bio theory around them and our preferences for their shape. 558 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 1: There was a study in the journal Plastic and Reconstructive 559 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:15,319 Speaker 1: Surgery Global Open that talked about how relative youth and 560 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:20,920 Speaker 1: physical appearance provide clues to youth and fecundity basically like 561 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 1: ability to pop out babies. Uh, and if a woman 562 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,920 Speaker 1: has farmed out the baby making job to a cave 563 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 1: dude already, because other cave dudes want to be able 564 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 1: to tell like, am I going to get a cave 565 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 1: woman who is ready to make babies? Or has she 566 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:43,839 Speaker 1: already made babies? So essentially the evo bio explanation for 567 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 1: us even worrying all about how our breast look is 568 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:53,279 Speaker 1: that cave people presumed that perky breasts meant someone had 569 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 1: not been he hadn't yet had kids, but would make 570 00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,440 Speaker 1: but that she's a wonderful womb. She would make a 571 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 1: wonderful womb. Uh. Yeah, that's a perfect way to put it. Basically, 572 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: that she's clearly young and healthy, but has not farmed 573 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,880 Speaker 1: out the cave daddy responsibilities yet. Um it sounds like 574 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:14,920 Speaker 1: a is that like a task rabbit thing that you 575 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:20,600 Speaker 1: can do these days? Um? So the researchers right that 576 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 1: the post pregnancy breast shape is a major sign of 577 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:27,680 Speaker 1: previous childbearing. In fact, this may be the only visual 578 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:32,520 Speaker 1: sign of previous pregnancies. Evolutionarily speaking, men with a preference 579 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:36,160 Speaker 1: for the nulla paris breast shape, which which is the 580 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,760 Speaker 1: shape indicating that the cave woman has not had cave babies, 581 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:45,520 Speaker 1: would have had more reproductive success and also helpful hints 582 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,120 Speaker 1: for those cave dudes. Also look out for signs like 583 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:54,680 Speaker 1: a stroller, Um, like spit up stains on shirts. Yeah, 584 00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:58,080 Speaker 1: had they invented the wheel yet in this evolutionary biology 585 00:36:58,160 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 1: now it was just more of like a wooden slip 586 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,040 Speaker 1: and you kind of pulled the baby along with bags 587 00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:05,760 Speaker 1: under the eyes suggesting that you know, you just haven't 588 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 1: got any sleep. Those Yeah, those are things, yeah, not 589 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:12,360 Speaker 1: just the eyes up here, man. Yeah, so I'm staring 590 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,640 Speaker 1: at my cave boobs. Yeah, don't leave my cave boobs. 591 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:18,319 Speaker 1: Look in the cave eye bags. Because also, like back then, 592 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:22,280 Speaker 1: wasn't their cave boob variety one would sake. But also 593 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 1: like presumably you lived in a community small enough, right, 594 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,960 Speaker 1: like a tribe small enough that you would be like, oh, yeah, 595 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:34,560 Speaker 1: cave Susie over there, cave Karen, cave Karen, cave Karen, 596 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:38,920 Speaker 1: that cave with a cave. Yeah, has already had a 597 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:43,319 Speaker 1: cave baby. You know, No paternity assurance is uh, it's 598 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:50,399 Speaker 1: a driver of behavior. Yeah, apparently breast oggling. So anyway, 599 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,799 Speaker 1: I hope you picked up on how important and how 600 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,960 Speaker 1: yet skeptical we are about evo bio theory. I mean, 601 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,960 Speaker 1: I have legitimately curious so out all of these kinds 602 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,680 Speaker 1: of nuances. And I think that's why we give evo 603 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,759 Speaker 1: bio sometimes a and oftentimes skeptical eye, just because it 604 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: seems so broadbrush. Yeah, of course, yes, well so we 605 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:17,080 Speaker 1: we hopefully have gained some insight into cavemen. But what 606 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:21,839 Speaker 1: accounts for plastic surgeons preferences? And that's something I had 607 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,360 Speaker 1: not thought about. It had not crossed my mind, and 608 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:26,919 Speaker 1: of course it should, I guess, but like it hadn't 609 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:31,359 Speaker 1: crossed my mind that, oh, surgeons aren't just McDonald's where 610 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,920 Speaker 1: you can like pull up and order what you want. 611 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,239 Speaker 1: They have an opinion, like a view on how those 612 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:39,800 Speaker 1: boobs are going to look at you order at the 613 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:43,839 Speaker 1: drive through, although like McDonald's, you can't supersize it if 614 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 1: you have extra mindy to spend. Sing Yeah, well so. 615 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:53,120 Speaker 1: According to June study and the Annals of Plastic Surgery, UH, 616 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,799 Speaker 1: what is influencing surgeons preferences are their home country and 617 00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 1: their age. So surgeon in India, the study author's note, 618 00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:07,840 Speaker 1: prefer the most upper breast fullness, while surgeons in France 619 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:13,320 Speaker 1: prefer the least upper breast fullness in addition to smaller arials, 620 00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:19,000 Speaker 1: although Germans surgeons apparently prefer the smallest arial is of all. 621 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:25,080 Speaker 1: It's just like two little molds, beauty marks like get 622 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:30,279 Speaker 1: a little a Marie antoinette like heart shape. It's just 623 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:35,919 Speaker 1: like Barbie boobs with sharpie nipples. Whereas you go somewhere else, 624 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,799 Speaker 1: next thing, you know, dinner plate, Oh god, yeah, you 625 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 1: never know what you're gonna get. I guess it depends 626 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:44,360 Speaker 1: on the country. Also quick note that if you're wondering, 627 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:47,880 Speaker 1: the answer is yes, your nipples are normal, just period, 628 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,280 Speaker 1: whatever they are. Look down, do you have them? They're fine? 629 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:55,239 Speaker 1: Um age of the surgeon also influenced it. Older surgeons 630 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:59,880 Speaker 1: tended to prefer less upper boob fullness with larger area 631 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 1: is and there is an implication to all this there 632 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:09,120 Speaker 1: there is no universally accepted preferred boob size or shape 633 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,640 Speaker 1: and we are at just but one point in time 634 00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:17,160 Speaker 1: in history, and therefore boob shape trends could shift. And 635 00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 1: to me, that's funny to say, because but women's body 636 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:23,719 Speaker 1: parts being part of a trend. But again, it's something 637 00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,399 Speaker 1: that we've talked about before, and I mean, I don't 638 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:30,440 Speaker 1: have the gender stats on that study, but it feels 639 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:36,040 Speaker 1: like a we've got some heateronormativity going on and be 640 00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:42,200 Speaker 1: that men are the tastemakers of what breast shape is 641 00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:46,920 Speaker 1: considered normal. Yeah. Um. The other bit of advice that 642 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,160 Speaker 1: comes out of the study, of course, is that there 643 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:55,800 Speaker 1: is a growing global uh basically like travel plastic surgery industry. 644 00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:57,960 Speaker 1: You know where you might go to Brazil for a 645 00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:00,680 Speaker 1: butt lift or you know, go to I don't somewhere 646 00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,279 Speaker 1: else for a nose job. But you should keep in 647 00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,319 Speaker 1: mind that depending on the country you go to for 648 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:10,759 Speaker 1: your procedure, the doctor might have a different preference. Because 649 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:16,160 Speaker 1: if you go to Germany. Tiny tiny, tiny areola, so 650 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,320 Speaker 1: be prepared. Um. Yeah, And and doctors, they write, should 651 00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:22,920 Speaker 1: also be aware that, hey, not everybody wants either like 652 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:26,680 Speaker 1: a super full Barbie boob or a super like quote 653 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:30,799 Speaker 1: unquote natural teardrop shape. Everybody's gonna want something different, and 654 00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,759 Speaker 1: so therefore they warn consumers out there be careful of 655 00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:39,600 Speaker 1: anyone who touts an ideal breast shape, which leads us 656 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:44,480 Speaker 1: directly into our next study, in which researchers have purported 657 00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:49,000 Speaker 1: to find the ideal breast shape. Oh, come on, science. Yeah, 658 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:53,240 Speaker 1: so this is coming from a study from the Journal 659 00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:58,320 Speaker 1: of Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery, and they determined that a 660 00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:02,880 Speaker 1: forty five to fifty five ratio with of fullness above 661 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:08,040 Speaker 1: the nipple line and below creating a slight tear drop 662 00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:12,640 Speaker 1: shape is the ideal breast silhouette. And this is based 663 00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:16,440 Speaker 1: on interviews with Americans. Yeah, so this was not an 664 00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:22,800 Speaker 1: international study. This study did include different genders, racist ethnic groups, 665 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:25,280 Speaker 1: the whole nine yards. That's great, but it is still 666 00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:30,480 Speaker 1: just Americans. Um, so that is worth noting. But the 667 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,759 Speaker 1: researchers were basically hoping that their results would serve as 668 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:37,640 Speaker 1: a quote, visual guide for both patients and surgeons, the 669 00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:42,080 Speaker 1: in goal being to produce more acceptable, longer lasting results, 670 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:45,959 Speaker 1: and ultimately more beautiful breasts. And then it's my face 671 00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,160 Speaker 1: with a bunch of question marks above it. Well, sure, 672 00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,759 Speaker 1: because obviously, you know, you have the cultural factors, which 673 00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:55,840 Speaker 1: absolutely makes sense because so much of our breast shape 674 00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:59,400 Speaker 1: is determined by our genes, so you're going to have 675 00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:03,640 Speaker 1: just probably different types of breasts around the world happening. 676 00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:06,640 Speaker 1: But then also you have the fact that boob shapes 677 00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:12,120 Speaker 1: are impacted by fashion trends, where you know, like like 678 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:14,520 Speaker 1: we said, in the nine fifties and sixties, you have 679 00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:19,800 Speaker 1: the pointy um, the pointy boobs created by Cold War boobs, 680 00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:23,120 Speaker 1: the Cold War boobs just like a missile, and then 681 00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:27,640 Speaker 1: you have flatter breasts that might be more in style. 682 00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:29,840 Speaker 1: And the seventies yeah, and think, yeah, I think early 683 00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:32,839 Speaker 1: nineties you had people like Kate Moss who were the 684 00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:36,120 Speaker 1: height of fashion and beauty and she was very slim 685 00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:41,440 Speaker 1: with small, small chest, so not exactly the playboy bunny look. 686 00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,880 Speaker 1: And it is again it's funny to me that breasts 687 00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:49,439 Speaker 1: and their shape can be in style or not. Oh, 688 00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:51,920 Speaker 1: it makes total sense to me though, because it's like 689 00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:56,919 Speaker 1: how many ways can we inflict some body anxiety onto 690 00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:02,799 Speaker 1: breast and vagina havers? And that exact thing is what 691 00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,919 Speaker 1: Margaret Hartman was writing about over at Jezebel back in two. 692 00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,960 Speaker 1: She was talking about having read this Playboy spread that 693 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:15,560 Speaker 1: looked at the evolution of preferred boob shapes over the years, 694 00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,600 Speaker 1: and you know, everything from boob shapes to body hair 695 00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,520 Speaker 1: and and everything in between. And she does tell a 696 00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:28,280 Speaker 1: story about how her mother was so like not accepting 697 00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:31,759 Speaker 1: of how her Margaret's boobs were shaped every time she 698 00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:35,279 Speaker 1: took her daughter bra shopping, because Margaret's mother grew up 699 00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:38,520 Speaker 1: in that era of your boobs are very high and 700 00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:41,879 Speaker 1: very missile shaped and at the ready and in your 701 00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:46,239 Speaker 1: and your super super shapy bra, whereas she was wearing 702 00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,960 Speaker 1: the more natural, like, go with the shape you're born 703 00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:52,120 Speaker 1: with kind of bra. And how those generational differences can 704 00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:55,719 Speaker 1: shape what we view as attractive and acceptable. And I 705 00:44:55,760 --> 00:45:00,399 Speaker 1: mean just the stereotypes that we attached to different kinds 706 00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:04,960 Speaker 1: of breast that we see in the wild. For instance, uh, 707 00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:09,319 Speaker 1: the maybe impulse to stereotype a woman who is walking 708 00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,440 Speaker 1: around brawls as, oh, well, she must be more of 709 00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,920 Speaker 1: a hippie whereas and I've heard this directly from actually 710 00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:21,640 Speaker 1: a lot of large busted women that they are judged 711 00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:25,520 Speaker 1: as less intelligent based on their their breast size and 712 00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:31,760 Speaker 1: are often talked down to noticeably, especially by dudes, um, 713 00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:36,799 Speaker 1: due to their boobs. Absolutely absolutely, um yeah, And I'm 714 00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:38,880 Speaker 1: so I'm just wondering, like, and this kind of circles 715 00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:40,239 Speaker 1: back to what you and I were talking about at 716 00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:43,280 Speaker 1: the top of the podcast in terms of like where 717 00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:47,680 Speaker 1: did we get the pathologizing of sagging boobs? Like where 718 00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:50,480 Speaker 1: did that originally come from? Because you know, in that 719 00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:53,960 Speaker 1: Jezebel piece, Margaret Hartman talks about how her mother finally 720 00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,880 Speaker 1: came out and was like, you'r but if you're not 721 00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:00,239 Speaker 1: wearing the you know, the super shaper bra, you're your 722 00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:03,320 Speaker 1: breast just hang too low, and it's like whoa, whoa 723 00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:06,320 Speaker 1: hang too low? Well, like, so if you're a middle 724 00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,000 Speaker 1: aged woman and you're concerned about what are really normal 725 00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:14,200 Speaker 1: breasts hanging too low, like, where did that idea come from? 726 00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:18,719 Speaker 1: I think it traces back to our ages. Um, honestly, 727 00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:22,399 Speaker 1: because it is true that the older that you are 728 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,799 Speaker 1: and the more pregnancies you've had, which suggests that you 729 00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:31,040 Speaker 1: were probably older as well. The more ptosis your breasts 730 00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:36,560 Speaker 1: my um experience showcase. I'm not sure the correct verbs, 731 00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:39,239 Speaker 1: but I think that it's very much linked to our 732 00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:42,960 Speaker 1: devaluing of older women, because I mean, think about the 733 00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:47,040 Speaker 1: stereotypes of saggy boobs. It's unfeminine, it's unattractive. Oh your 734 00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:50,600 Speaker 1: boobs at your old, worn out, you've been around the block, 735 00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:54,120 Speaker 1: the boot block. Whereas it's just like these are just 736 00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:59,319 Speaker 1: it's just my breast issue of fat density ratios. So 737 00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,640 Speaker 1: then I wonder what came first that the doctor who said, here, 738 00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:04,839 Speaker 1: let me fix that for you, or the woman who said, 739 00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:07,080 Speaker 1: am I normal for having my boobs look that way? 740 00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:13,080 Speaker 1: You know, I it I your theory, Your explanation seems 741 00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:15,319 Speaker 1: to fit perfectly. It makes complete sense to me that 742 00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,160 Speaker 1: it just fits in with like, you know, we get 743 00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:21,040 Speaker 1: to a certain age and people start thinking about facelifts 744 00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:25,040 Speaker 1: or eyelifts, um, you know, all sorts of procedures and 745 00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:28,440 Speaker 1: creams and cures for aging. You know, people want to 746 00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:32,120 Speaker 1: look young and stay young, and not only for personal vanity, 747 00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:35,480 Speaker 1: but just on the basis of being devalued by society. Yeah, 748 00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:38,560 Speaker 1: I mean, we saw the same process happen with female 749 00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:43,200 Speaker 1: body hair where it started out with the just general pathologizing. Um. 750 00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:46,440 Speaker 1: I think they called it hypertrichosis, which was literally like 751 00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:50,040 Speaker 1: a made up term that the American Dermatological Society came 752 00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:52,480 Speaker 1: up with to just say, like, women who have body here, 753 00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:55,319 Speaker 1: if if we can see too much of it, then 754 00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:57,640 Speaker 1: that's a bad thing. You need to get rid of it. 755 00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:00,400 Speaker 1: And in terms of chicken egg questions, I comes up 756 00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:04,640 Speaker 1: so much with bikini waxing, where it's like how did 757 00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:08,480 Speaker 1: that store? Was it a seeing porn or you know, 758 00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:11,799 Speaker 1: someone telling us that we had too much hare what's 759 00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:18,239 Speaker 1: happening down there? Yeah? So, um, I'm interested to hear 760 00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:22,720 Speaker 1: from people who of of all ages definitely who have 761 00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:28,520 Speaker 1: either experienced a degree of breast sagging and felt fine 762 00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:30,440 Speaker 1: about it like I don't care, this is just my body, 763 00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:33,319 Speaker 1: or people who have felt really embarrassed about what's going 764 00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:35,440 Speaker 1: on with their boobs. Yeah. And the last thing I 765 00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:39,839 Speaker 1: want to do is invalidate or minimize people's emotions and 766 00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:43,680 Speaker 1: feelings about their body shape. If anything, we're just trying 767 00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:46,880 Speaker 1: to reinforce the fact that a lot of what women 768 00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:49,759 Speaker 1: are told are imperfections are just the ways that our 769 00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:53,840 Speaker 1: bodies work in in varied ways. But I mean, it's 770 00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:57,960 Speaker 1: it's totally fine to have feelings one way or the 771 00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:00,600 Speaker 1: other about your body. I just think it's really helpful 772 00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:08,680 Speaker 1: to better understand what influences literally legitimately influences the shapes 773 00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:10,879 Speaker 1: of our different body parts. Well, that's why I thought 774 00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:13,440 Speaker 1: it was so important to cite the one study that's like, 775 00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:16,400 Speaker 1: beware of anyone who tells you that there's an ideal 776 00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:21,600 Speaker 1: breast shape. With the study that this wasn't researcher saying 777 00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:25,160 Speaker 1: we have an ideal breast shape that we've created, more 778 00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:27,880 Speaker 1: that they were interviewing people out there in the wild 779 00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:33,360 Speaker 1: in the United States who said, we overwhelmingly male, female, young, old, black, white, Indian, 780 00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:38,560 Speaker 1: Asian whatever, we prefer this shape. Yeah, I mean, And 781 00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:44,080 Speaker 1: and the thing is, aesthetics are inherently subjective. Heart health 782 00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:47,879 Speaker 1: ideal heart health that is objective, that is a factual thing, 783 00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:54,239 Speaker 1: an ideal breast silhouette, um grain of salt. So listeners, 784 00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:56,840 Speaker 1: we can't wait to hear from you on this because 785 00:49:57,120 --> 00:49:59,480 Speaker 1: this is one of the things about stuff I never 786 00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:02,440 Speaker 1: told you I love the most, which is digging into 787 00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:07,239 Speaker 1: these questions that we might think are sort of unanswerable, 788 00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:09,640 Speaker 1: but if we dig hard enough, we got some facts. 789 00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:12,480 Speaker 1: So hopefully these facts were helpful, and we want to 790 00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:14,680 Speaker 1: know what you think about them. Mom Stuff at how 791 00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:17,359 Speaker 1: Stuff works dot com is our email address. You can 792 00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:22,040 Speaker 1: also tweet us at Mom's Stuff podcast or messages on Facebook, 793 00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:24,319 Speaker 1: and we've got a couple of messages to share with 794 00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:26,840 Speaker 1: you when we come right back from a quick break 795 00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:33,839 Speaker 1: and now back to the show. All right, We've got 796 00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,600 Speaker 1: a couple of letters here in response to our Gymnastics 797 00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:39,799 Speaker 1: Gold episode. This one's from Kelly. She says, I really 798 00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:42,480 Speaker 1: enjoyed your podcast on the history of gymnastics and your 799 00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:45,520 Speaker 1: discussion about the role that race, class, and gender all 800 00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:49,360 Speaker 1: have and how we think about both gymnastics and gymnasts. 801 00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:52,120 Speaker 1: I was struck by the question what is driving Gabby 802 00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:55,000 Speaker 1: and Simone to be so humble and perhaps skeptical of 803 00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:57,920 Speaker 1: their abilities? Well, I think you all brought up some 804 00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:00,600 Speaker 1: good points and potential reasons why they could be hesitant 805 00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:03,520 Speaker 1: to call themselves to the world's greatest gymnasts. I would 806 00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:06,440 Speaker 1: also posit that race is once again rearing its ugly 807 00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:08,920 Speaker 1: head and how these girls see themselves, or, to borrow 808 00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:12,600 Speaker 1: from the sociological concept the looking glass self how they 809 00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:16,320 Speaker 1: perceive how others view them as a person of color. 810 00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:18,359 Speaker 1: I can attest to the fact that we often feel 811 00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:20,919 Speaker 1: the need to be twice as good as our non 812 00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:24,720 Speaker 1: person of color counterparts to receive the recognition we deserve. 813 00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:28,759 Speaker 1: We know quite keenly how our accomplishments can be discredited 814 00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:32,120 Speaker 1: for trivial reasons. Gabby and the criticism of her hair 815 00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:35,080 Speaker 1: is a good example, and so sometimes we don't really 816 00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:37,720 Speaker 1: believe in our excellence until it is confirmed by those 817 00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:40,040 Speaker 1: in power. I don't mean to speak for them or 818 00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:42,600 Speaker 1: project onto them things that they may not be grappling with, 819 00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:44,319 Speaker 1: but I did want to bring to light have people 820 00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:47,960 Speaker 1: of color who are breaking barriers in predominantly white institutions 821 00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:51,440 Speaker 1: can sometimes feel about our successes in those spaces. So 822 00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:53,759 Speaker 1: thank you, Kelly. And I've got a letter here from 823 00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:58,440 Speaker 1: Allison who writes, I can't believe my favorite podcast just 824 00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:02,800 Speaker 1: discussed my all time favorite sport. I did gymnastics growing 825 00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:05,479 Speaker 1: up and then competed inn C Double A Division three 826 00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:08,520 Speaker 1: gymnastics at m I T. I still mess around in 827 00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:11,040 Speaker 1: the gym sum and I am a huge follower of 828 00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:15,000 Speaker 1: n C Double A and elite gymnastics. As you mentioned, 829 00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:18,040 Speaker 1: Gabby Douglas and Simone Biles are amazing gymnasts. But I 830 00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:21,080 Speaker 1: also wanted you to show some love for Ali Raisman. 831 00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:24,360 Speaker 1: I think she's such a great ambassador for the sport. 832 00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:27,120 Speaker 1: She has spoken openly about learning to love her body 833 00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:30,560 Speaker 1: and her muscles. It's just such a positive message for girls. 834 00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:35,160 Speaker 1: You guys also mentioned some of the gendered commentary in gymnastics. 835 00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:38,200 Speaker 1: I never quite know how to feel when the commentators 836 00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:42,680 Speaker 1: discussed the women's leo's as in leotards. The men's leo's 837 00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:45,879 Speaker 1: are never discussed. Even in the beginning of the live 838 00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:48,759 Speaker 1: stream of the women's team finals for the Olympics, the 839 00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:54,160 Speaker 1: female commentator interrupted the male commentator's discussion of Team Usays 840 00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:56,719 Speaker 1: dominance to point out how she thought their leotards were 841 00:52:56,760 --> 00:53:00,239 Speaker 1: pretty ah. Focus on the awesomeness of the girl rolls, 842 00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:04,319 Speaker 1: not their leotard's. And one last fun fact, since you 843 00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:08,920 Speaker 1: have discovered the gymternet, there is an online fantasy gymnastics 844 00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:11,759 Speaker 1: league for n C double A Gymnastics. One of my 845 00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:14,520 Speaker 1: brilliant former teammates at m I T started the league 846 00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:19,719 Speaker 1: several years ago, and even the website design encoding herself. Allison, 847 00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:23,360 Speaker 1: I love that so much. I do not play fantasy football, 848 00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:26,759 Speaker 1: never will, but fantasy gymnastics I could get into that. 849 00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:30,480 Speaker 1: So now, listeners, we'd love to hear from you as well. 850 00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:33,600 Speaker 1: Mom stuff at how stuff works dot com is our 851 00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:36,080 Speaker 1: email address and for links to all of our social 852 00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:38,360 Speaker 1: media as well as all of our blogs, videos, and 853 00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:41,600 Speaker 1: podcasts with our sources so you can learn even more 854 00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:45,520 Speaker 1: about the science of staggy breasts. Head on over to 855 00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:52,880 Speaker 1: stuff mom Never Told You dot com for more on 856 00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:55,480 Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics. Does it how stuff 857 00:53:55,480 --> 00:54:02,239 Speaker 1: works dot com. Six