1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,840
Speaker 1: The amount of debt that the baby boomers have created

2
00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:05,880
Speaker 1: is never going to get paid back, and who's supposed

3
00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:08,840
Speaker 1: to pay it back? Gen Z and millennials, You've polluted

4
00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:11,600
Speaker 1: our planet, You've screwed up our financial system, and we're

5
00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:15,400
Speaker 1: cigarette And so this is literally these young kids fighting back.

6
00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:18,520
Speaker 1: It's like a giant middle finger to the system. Now

7
00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:22,000
Speaker 1: we've got a whole universe of day traders that are

8
00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,560
Speaker 1: out there, both in crypto markets and the equity markets. Uh,

9
00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:29,840
Speaker 1: and they're making money and they're having fun. It's a

10
00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:33,520
Speaker 1: story that started in a Reddit chat room. It then

11
00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,120
Speaker 1: took Wall Street on by storm, and now it is

12
00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:40,200
Speaker 1: all everyone is talking about. No one predicted the first

13
00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:45,200
Speaker 1: big business story of would be about a sleepy little

14
00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:49,200
Speaker 1: video game retailer that's been in decline for months, if

15
00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,360
Speaker 1: not years now seeing its sack price go from thirty

16
00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:57,360
Speaker 1: to forty dollars over a matter of days. Why because

17
00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:01,040
Speaker 1: a bunch of day traders who found one another on

18
00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:04,520
Speaker 1: social media platforms and chat rooms, figured out a way

19
00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:08,039
Speaker 1: to take on the system, push head funds out, drive

20
00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:11,120
Speaker 1: up the markets. All. Well, we're kind of in between

21
00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:15,200
Speaker 1: administrations and don't even have the next SEC chair confirmed

22
00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:20,200
Speaker 1: I'm Stephanie Rule, MSNBC anchor, NBC News Senior correspondent, and

23
00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,480
Speaker 1: this is Modern Rules, a podcast from NBC Think and

24
00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:31,440
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. We need to explain this story, so

25
00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,160
Speaker 1: I brought in the one and only Mike Novogratz. He

26
00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,840
Speaker 1: is the CEO of Galaxy, the digital currency firm, former

27
00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:41,160
Speaker 1: co founder of Fortress, who has a deep understanding of

28
00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:44,320
Speaker 1: this cultural divide but also knows a lot about finance.

29
00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:52,480
Speaker 1: Michael novograts I am reaching out to you today because

30
00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:56,520
Speaker 1: the general news audience needs some help and understanding what

31
00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,000
Speaker 1: in the world is going on. Last summer, when we

32
00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:02,000
Speaker 1: saw riots break out after George Floyd died, it wasn't

33
00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:05,360
Speaker 1: just about racial injustice, it was about economic injustice. Two

34
00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:09,200
Speaker 1: weeks ago, the capital riots again. It was this anti

35
00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:15,160
Speaker 1: establishment movement, and now somehow the same spirit is playing

36
00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:18,160
Speaker 1: out in the last few days in the stock market.

37
00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:20,880
Speaker 1: It's all coming together with a company that I often

38
00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:24,280
Speaker 1: would compare to like the radio shack of video game stores,

39
00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,960
Speaker 1: game stock, and it is the robin Hood traders, the

40
00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:31,920
Speaker 1: little guys versus the establishment. Can you tell us the story?

41
00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:35,160
Speaker 1: Take us back? How did we get here? But listen,

42
00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:39,200
Speaker 1: we've got here over a year period, right, since two

43
00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:44,480
Speaker 1: thousand and eight, the medicine that central bank governors and

44
00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,639
Speaker 1: Ministry of Finance chiefs or Department of Treasury heads a

45
00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,639
Speaker 1: gift to sick economies are more fiscal and a lot

46
00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,560
Speaker 1: more monetary. Let's say we don't know what fed governors are.

47
00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:58,640
Speaker 1: Economy was sick in the financial crisis. They pumped money

48
00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:01,400
Speaker 1: into the system, and they put interest rates at zero,

49
00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:05,160
Speaker 1: which meant wealthy people could borrow money to start businesses

50
00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:09,000
Speaker 1: and buy houses. But savers weren't making any money, and

51
00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:10,840
Speaker 1: you had to put your money in the stock market

52
00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:13,079
Speaker 1: because it was the only game in town. Since two

53
00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:15,640
Speaker 1: thousand and eight, we have grown the money supply, right,

54
00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,560
Speaker 1: the amount of dollars in circulation five as and so

55
00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,000
Speaker 1: if you think about if we're sitting around the table

56
00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:22,840
Speaker 1: and there's an apple and we want to buy the apple,

57
00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:24,680
Speaker 1: if you give everyone five times as much money, the

58
00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:29,040
Speaker 1: apple gets a lot more expensive. And so assets alas

59
00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:34,920
Speaker 1: is stocks, bitcoin, uh, you name the asset art has

60
00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:37,760
Speaker 1: gone up in value. Well, who owns assets? Rich people?

61
00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:43,400
Speaker 1: The medicine that our government officials continue to give the

62
00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:47,960
Speaker 1: sick economy keeps extending the gap between the Hauzard and

63
00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,200
Speaker 1: have nuts. It got wildly supercharged because of the pandemic.

64
00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,600
Speaker 1: So the pandemic to two things. It's stop the economy.

65
00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:58,240
Speaker 1: And so the only response that Chairman pal that had

66
00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:01,040
Speaker 1: the head of the Fed minute at that time new

67
00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:04,640
Speaker 1: was to throw tons of money at the problem. And

68
00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,560
Speaker 1: we increase money supply faster than we have since World

69
00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:11,640
Speaker 1: War Two. We grew up a deficit of four four

70
00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:14,840
Speaker 1: trillion dollars. Trillion dollars used to be a lot of money,

71
00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:16,760
Speaker 1: and now we're throwing a trillion dollars around like their

72
00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:19,960
Speaker 1: match sticks. A trillion dollars is five percent of GDP.

73
00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:22,560
Speaker 1: It's a staggering amount of money. And so running the

74
00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:26,120
Speaker 1: biggest deficits we've ever run postward world Ward two, and

75
00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,680
Speaker 1: that money is being recycled into the hands of really

76
00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:33,279
Speaker 1: wealthy hedge fund managers. But also you know young robin

77
00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:35,560
Speaker 1: Hood traders who are taking their stimulus checks there as

78
00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:38,680
Speaker 1: their extra savings, and they're stuck at home. They can't

79
00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,400
Speaker 1: go to bars and chase girls. Uh, they're stuck at home.

80
00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,840
Speaker 1: There in further computers, and this is almost like addiction.

81
00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,440
Speaker 1: So when we face pandemic crisis, the FED comes in,

82
00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:53,839
Speaker 1: they pump money, they stabilized markets. But for the average

83
00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:57,680
Speaker 1: small business, they were dependent on Congress stepping in and

84
00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,600
Speaker 1: helping them, and the FED did a whole lot more So,

85
00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:06,080
Speaker 1: how much did that worsen splinter this economic divide. It

86
00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:09,040
Speaker 1: wasn't like demand went away. It just meant all that

87
00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,719
Speaker 1: business was going to target in Walmart and Amazon. Listen,

88
00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:14,960
Speaker 1: you know, in the middle of a crisis, often you

89
00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,760
Speaker 1: use the most blunt instrument you have, and you know

90
00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:21,280
Speaker 1: Monastery supplies the blunt dissinstrument and buying everything. And the

91
00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,760
Speaker 1: FED literally bailed out hedge funds, build out the financial system,

92
00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,840
Speaker 1: part because the chairman felt he had to, right, there

93
00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,800
Speaker 1: was no alternative in his mind. Congress could have made

94
00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:36,440
Speaker 1: a lot more distribution to individuals and less to corporates. Right,

95
00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:38,960
Speaker 1: there was lots of decisions made in that even the

96
00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:41,600
Speaker 1: p p P the way that was done, Uh, they

97
00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:44,960
Speaker 1: tried their best. It wasn't that effective. Lots of wealthy

98
00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:47,400
Speaker 1: business and took advantage of the p p P when

99
00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:49,840
Speaker 1: it was really meant for small businesses. But it's really

100
00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,400
Speaker 1: hard in a fast moving environment when it felt like

101
00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,120
Speaker 1: the world is collapsing, and so the drug they know

102
00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,520
Speaker 1: how to use his monetary policy. When they gave stimulus,

103
00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:03,400
Speaker 1: when they had tended unemployment, we had Mitch McConnell saying, well,

104
00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:05,599
Speaker 1: we have to end that because people are getting paid

105
00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:07,800
Speaker 1: so much money they don't want to go back to work,

106
00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,280
Speaker 1: when that wasn't the case for the American poor half

107
00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,680
Speaker 1: our country has no savings, and we've got fifty million

108
00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:18,200
Speaker 1: people who are food and secure, while the mega rich

109
00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:22,880
Speaker 1: got mega richer, and the pretty rich we're buying second houses.

110
00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:26,720
Speaker 1: That's exactly what's happening, and that's why we're seeing you know,

111
00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:29,400
Speaker 1: we saw the riots after George Floyd, which racial justice,

112
00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:31,520
Speaker 1: but if you looked around l a beat the rich,

113
00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:37,279
Speaker 1: there is this growing friction and growing i think uncertainty

114
00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,799
Speaker 1: in our economic policy and our political system and social

115
00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:43,920
Speaker 1: and civil society. We saw civil society breakdown in d C.

116
00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:48,520
Speaker 1: It's really complicated, and now the genie so far out

117
00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:51,040
Speaker 1: of the bottle it's hard to figure out how it

118
00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:54,800
Speaker 1: gets back in. This is also generation right, this is

119
00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,920
Speaker 1: the younger generation. It's Gen Z and millennials flipping the

120
00:06:58,000 --> 00:06:59,960
Speaker 1: bird at the baby boomers. It's saying to the baby boo,

121
00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,600
Speaker 1: you have taken way too much debt right in a

122
00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:06,120
Speaker 1: lot of ways. It's why crypto was created. Crypto came

123
00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:08,760
Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight after financial crisis. It was

124
00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:10,880
Speaker 1: a middle finger to the system. And it's the same

125
00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:13,360
Speaker 1: guys who are doing Robin Hood that we're kind of

126
00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,120
Speaker 1: the spirit of the original crypto revolution, and we're seeing

127
00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,400
Speaker 1: it now growing up in this thing we called the

128
00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,720
Speaker 1: centralized finance right a peer to peer. We want to

129
00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:23,960
Speaker 1: cut out Goldman's actually want to cut out the NASDAC,

130
00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,600
Speaker 1: We want to cut out all the middlement, all the

131
00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,720
Speaker 1: red tables, and so all of these things are kind

132
00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:33,160
Speaker 1: of lining up in their screening for systems change. This

133
00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:36,920
Speaker 1: one episode of going after shorts and hedge funs syendemic

134
00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,120
Speaker 1: of this same idea that the system is geared to

135
00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:43,160
Speaker 1: the wealthy, it's geared to the rich, it continues to

136
00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,280
Speaker 1: play to their strength. All of that needs to change

137
00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:47,960
Speaker 1: or we're going to have the revolution. And these are

138
00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,040
Speaker 1: like the first arrows that are being thrown, and you're

139
00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:53,840
Speaker 1: seeing lots of them in different in different places. You know,

140
00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:58,160
Speaker 1: Donald Trump arrow and the the Robin Hood Trader arrow

141
00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:02,080
Speaker 1: and the Black Lives Matter protest arrow three completely different.

142
00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:05,640
Speaker 1: You know, socio economic groups to complete in different communities,

143
00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:09,440
Speaker 1: but all really at their core complaining about the same

144
00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:13,040
Speaker 1: thing they are in that Black Lives Matter is saying

145
00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:18,040
Speaker 1: down with the white male patriarchy that keeps me down.

146
00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:23,080
Speaker 1: The MAGA movement while it's not actually what Donald Trump

147
00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:27,560
Speaker 1: ever did. Is this anti establishment movement, and then the

148
00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:33,320
Speaker 1: financial arm of it is this defy this this decentralized

149
00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,440
Speaker 1: finance where these young people and correct me if I'm wrong,

150
00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:40,360
Speaker 1: are sick and tired of having to go to the

151
00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:44,680
Speaker 1: toll takers opening up that account at JP Morgan giving

152
00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,280
Speaker 1: Citadel the chance to to go for I mean, when

153
00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:51,000
Speaker 1: when an average person on the street wants to get

154
00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,920
Speaker 1: in on the Airbnb I p o. By the time

155
00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:57,160
Speaker 1: they're able to buy that stock the rich guys are

156
00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:00,240
Speaker 1: selling are the ones selling it to them. So walk

157
00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,400
Speaker 1: us through sort of how this robin Hood trader came

158
00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:06,160
Speaker 1: to be and how this is played out Listen, I mean,

159
00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:08,959
Speaker 1: in lots of ways, right, robin Hood and companies like

160
00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:15,600
Speaker 1: it brought stock trading uh to young people. You've decided

161
00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,760
Speaker 1: for a robin Hood account and you funded with you know,

162
00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:21,320
Speaker 1: a thousand dollars or five hundred dollars or fifty dollars

163
00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:24,160
Speaker 1: and you can, you know, buy stocks. You're actually not

164
00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:27,560
Speaker 1: buying stocks, you're buying derivatives of stocks, right, You're trading

165
00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:29,719
Speaker 1: against robin Hood. And then robin Hood is you know,

166
00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,400
Speaker 1: buying and hedging in the stock market. That order flow

167
00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:36,719
Speaker 1: gets thrown through big order folk processing. But mostly it's

168
00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:40,920
Speaker 1: it's allowed this casino called the stock market, and it's

169
00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:43,480
Speaker 1: introduced it to all these young people that didn't really

170
00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,360
Speaker 1: participate in the past. And so in some ways it's

171
00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,000
Speaker 1: a great thing, right, it's the democratization of finance. It's

172
00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:51,560
Speaker 1: giving people a chance. The regulators have to be somewhat

173
00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,880
Speaker 1: nervous and that you know, two people know what they're doing,

174
00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:58,520
Speaker 1: and that feels patronizing. And someone says that, Michael, you

175
00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:00,760
Speaker 1: and I both came from the bank king world. You

176
00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:02,800
Speaker 1: can say all the terrible things you want about them,

177
00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:07,880
Speaker 1: but they're highly regulated, right, They've got strict rules around

178
00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,199
Speaker 1: anti money laundering, around k YC. Know your client, you

179
00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,199
Speaker 1: can't call a ninety two year old woman on a

180
00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:16,640
Speaker 1: fixed income and say can I interest you in a

181
00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:21,520
Speaker 1: derivatives transaction? But in this decentralized world of finance, you've

182
00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,760
Speaker 1: got so robin Hood isn't decentralized. Robin has still centralized.

183
00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:26,599
Speaker 1: I would say it's the same spirit of what the

184
00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,920
Speaker 1: decentralized world is coming to. Robin Hood is literally just

185
00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:34,280
Speaker 1: allowing people a cheaper way to access the stock market

186
00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:39,160
Speaker 1: and a sexier way, and that resonated with latical generation

187
00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,880
Speaker 1: gen Z and millennials. You know, the same type trading

188
00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:43,920
Speaker 1: happens on TV and merrit Trade and the Trade and

189
00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,440
Speaker 1: other electronic platforms. Okay, and let's go back to the kids.

190
00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:52,880
Speaker 1: These are not necessarily finance experts. This is people are home,

191
00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:55,800
Speaker 1: they've got a little money, or they're they're not spending

192
00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:58,480
Speaker 1: it going out to the horse chasing, girls are betting

193
00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:00,839
Speaker 1: on games, and so they said, I'm going to get

194
00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,920
Speaker 1: my adrenaline rush from trading stocks or I'm gonna make

195
00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:06,320
Speaker 1: a living. You know what's so interesting when I started

196
00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,520
Speaker 1: getting into crypto in two thousand and fourteen fifteen, the

197
00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,439
Speaker 1: shocking amount of information and work that was done on

198
00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:17,160
Speaker 1: Reddit and on Telegram and on Twitter. The crypto lives

199
00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:21,160
Speaker 1: on Twitter and can I remember sitting with my daughter's

200
00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,080
Speaker 1: boyfriend and his friend and they knew more about crypto

201
00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:25,800
Speaker 1: than I didn't. I thought I was a professional, so

202
00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,319
Speaker 1: people are educating the heck out of themselves. My son

203
00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:31,840
Speaker 1: Nacho was the one who told me about this Reddit

204
00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:34,600
Speaker 1: chat room that was going after games stopped four nights

205
00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,199
Speaker 1: of week. Doesn't that feel at all dangerous to you

206
00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:41,000
Speaker 1: that those are the platforms where this information is being shared.

207
00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:43,559
Speaker 1: You worked at Goldman Sachs, I worked at Deutsche Bank.

208
00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:47,360
Speaker 1: Before a research report could go out from either of

209
00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:51,040
Speaker 1: our organizations, they were scrubbed, scrubbed, scrubbed again, and four

210
00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,719
Speaker 1: lawyers then cleaned them up. You know, there's a lot

211
00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,520
Speaker 1: of thought that's going to be done. I'm sure in

212
00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,480
Speaker 1: the next few months in the in the CFTC office

213
00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:01,599
Speaker 1: and in the s SEE office. Gary Gensler, is you

214
00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,560
Speaker 1: going to take take his job? And it's like, WHOA

215
00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,520
Speaker 1: A lot to think about, right, even mark of manipulation? Right?

216
00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:10,680
Speaker 1: I can't call four hedge funds up and say, dudes,

217
00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,400
Speaker 1: you know this guy short, let's all squeeze is short.

218
00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:16,000
Speaker 1: That would and me in jail when it's happening in

219
00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:19,240
Speaker 1: the masses. Who knows where those rules are. Someone's saying, hey,

220
00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:21,199
Speaker 1: I think you know this is a good vibe and

221
00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:23,120
Speaker 1: we should buy it, and everybody short the market that's

222
00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:27,839
Speaker 1: not necessarily colluding, but it feels like collusion, and so

223
00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,079
Speaker 1: we might need a whole new set of regulations to

224
00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:33,120
Speaker 1: deal with this. Listen, what's going on is really bad

225
00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,760
Speaker 1: for capital markets and the people that are participating. Some

226
00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:37,640
Speaker 1: are making a ton of money. This is going to

227
00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:41,760
Speaker 1: end in tears because these stocks will collapse at one point,

228
00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,280
Speaker 1: the retail stocks that have been squeezed game stop, they

229
00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:48,200
Speaker 1: will all collapse. They might not collapse tomorrow, they might

230
00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:50,640
Speaker 1: not collapse three days, but they will collapse. I will

231
00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:53,559
Speaker 1: literally bet you my shoes, my pants, and my in

232
00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:55,480
Speaker 1: my shirt. I want you to keep all those on.

233
00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,920
Speaker 1: When I even think back to the financial crisis, there

234
00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:01,760
Speaker 1: was a lot of badhavior and wrongdoing, but I can't

235
00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:07,240
Speaker 1: think of any participants that we're excited about destroying the markets.

236
00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:10,440
Speaker 1: When I wake up and I see someone as brilliant

237
00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:14,959
Speaker 1: and powerful as Elon Musk with the kind of like

238
00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:19,640
Speaker 1: Etsy tweet and he's laughing as people are scrambling. Elon

239
00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,319
Speaker 1: Musk likes to use Etsy and then they're buying it up.

240
00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:27,120
Speaker 1: Elon Musk isn't going to care if the markets are destroyed.

241
00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:29,679
Speaker 1: He's gonna get on his rocket ship and go to

242
00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:34,160
Speaker 1: Mars and our capital mark literally and our capital markets

243
00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,079
Speaker 1: are going to be decimated. Like I said, regulators have

244
00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,959
Speaker 1: their hands full. And unfortunately we're in between these you know,

245
00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:43,319
Speaker 1: we're just transitioning. You know, Gary hasn't been approved yet

246
00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:46,280
Speaker 1: as the SEC chaired the CFCC, And I think this

247
00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:50,720
Speaker 1: has come out so fast, Right, they will have an answer,

248
00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,760
Speaker 1: they will what it will be the right answer? I

249
00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:57,000
Speaker 1: don't know, but like it's imperative at disappoint that these

250
00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,880
Speaker 1: guys are gonna do something. And listen, we have these

251
00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,240
Speaker 1: correlated risk unwines all the time, and no one ever

252
00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:05,400
Speaker 1: feels bad for the hedge fund manager who just loses

253
00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:08,600
Speaker 1: his shirt. The capital markets thing is is a more

254
00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:11,640
Speaker 1: important question than the individual hedge fund manager. And I

255
00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:15,400
Speaker 1: think this is part of what happens when you allow leverage.

256
00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:17,960
Speaker 1: This is this is in lots of waye chairman pals Mouth,

257
00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:21,640
Speaker 1: and he knew he was doing this. He's created a bubble.

258
00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:25,200
Speaker 1: This is a bubble of monumental proportions. Right, we're debasing

259
00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:27,360
Speaker 1: the dollar as fast as we can. He might be

260
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:29,640
Speaker 1: the only option he has, Right, how are we going

261
00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:31,400
Speaker 1: to pay all this debt that we just keep running

262
00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:33,200
Speaker 1: we're gonna run up the debt and deficit, and then

263
00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:35,720
Speaker 1: when we decide to cut the deficit, we're gonna cut

264
00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,360
Speaker 1: social programs from the poorest people who are going to suffer. Again.

265
00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,960
Speaker 1: Here's the real issue, Stephanie. We need a new paradigm.

266
00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:45,760
Speaker 1: We had one that was called globalization. It worked for

267
00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:48,760
Speaker 1: a long time. It's stopped working, probably in two thousand

268
00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:52,760
Speaker 1: and thirteen fourteen. We didn't realize it until Brexit happened

269
00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:56,160
Speaker 1: in fifteen and then Trump and sixteen, and since then

270
00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,440
Speaker 1: we haven't come up with a story and narrative that

271
00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,760
Speaker 1: people can rally around. And so we've got populous left

272
00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:06,320
Speaker 1: and populous right. No one's really come up with good

273
00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:10,840
Speaker 1: solutions to deal with How do we structure our capitalist

274
00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:16,400
Speaker 1: economy in that is a little more egalitarian and still functions.

275
00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:18,600
Speaker 1: Do you have to burn the house down? I'm an

276
00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,040
Speaker 1: institutionalist and I'm gonna send you know like so I'm

277
00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,920
Speaker 1: hoping the house doesn't get burned down. Think of Uber

278
00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:28,760
Speaker 1: Like Travis Pilaschia, right, he broke every rule in every

279
00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:33,960
Speaker 1: borough he tried to start Uber in until the citizens

280
00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:37,560
Speaker 1: of that county, state city said we want Uber change

281
00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,320
Speaker 1: the rules so he can function. And so every once

282
00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:42,600
Speaker 1: in a while you do have to push and break

283
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,440
Speaker 1: a little glass to change things for the better. And

284
00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:50,640
Speaker 1: so there's this balance, I think between not breaking our

285
00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:56,400
Speaker 1: institutions and forcing them to change. We'll be back after

286
00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:12,880
Speaker 1: the break. Don't explain to us technically how this game

287
00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:16,120
Speaker 1: stopped thing played out. There are people that are participating.

288
00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,720
Speaker 1: They figured out who was short, They bought lots of

289
00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,160
Speaker 1: out of the money call options. Right, the Internet is

290
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:26,160
Speaker 1: an unbelievable network, and light minded communities find their way

291
00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:31,000
Speaker 1: onto Twitter pages or Telegram chats or these Reddit chat rooms,

292
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,920
Speaker 1: and people started realizing if you buy way out of

293
00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:39,120
Speaker 1: the money calls, the dealers who sell them to you,

294
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,480
Speaker 1: who sell them systematically to get short prices that they

295
00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,640
Speaker 1: never think would happen. And so these young traders are

296
00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:49,280
Speaker 1: using that playbook on individual stocks that are owned by

297
00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:53,400
Speaker 1: hedge funds, and all of a sudden, as it starts working,

298
00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,320
Speaker 1: then hedge funds start saying, hey, who short this? Who

299
00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:00,400
Speaker 1: short that? Oh, this guy is in trouble, is also

300
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:04,200
Speaker 1: long this, let's sell that. And you know the unfortunate

301
00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:06,359
Speaker 1: side is these are hedge fund managers that have been

302
00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:08,680
Speaker 1: stock pickers for long periods of time that have great

303
00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,879
Speaker 1: track records that you know, maybe they got too complacent,

304
00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:15,480
Speaker 1: you know, their assets size was too big, their shorts

305
00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,679
Speaker 1: were too big. But it wasn't like this is like specific,

306
00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:22,880
Speaker 1: let's pick on this guy because this was Hey, these

307
00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:25,000
Speaker 1: guys are some molic of a system, and we're going

308
00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:27,440
Speaker 1: to go after the system. And listen, they're young, guys,

309
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:29,440
Speaker 1: have a ton of fun, like when you make money,

310
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:33,560
Speaker 1: it is unbelievably thrilling, and so there's a bro culture

311
00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:37,000
Speaker 1: that's part of this that listen, it will end in tears.

312
00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,000
Speaker 1: But right now, these guys are having time in their lives.

313
00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:41,560
Speaker 1: They have true leaders like Shama who wants to be

314
00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,960
Speaker 1: the governor of California, and Elon Musk. I will say

315
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,960
Speaker 1: in their defense, they do have to turn on financial

316
00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,639
Speaker 1: news every day, where you know, sort of established money

317
00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,879
Speaker 1: managers are mocking the Robin Hood traders. You know, so

318
00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:57,680
Speaker 1: there is some aspect of it where they're sticking it

319
00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:00,520
Speaker 1: to them, but to any of them actually believe in

320
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,560
Speaker 1: game Stock as a company. No, No, this is a game.

321
00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:05,400
Speaker 1: I mean, it's kind of interesting it's name in game Stock.

322
00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:07,520
Speaker 1: This is just a game. Even Tesla, you can tell

323
00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,560
Speaker 1: the Great Tesla story. But Tesla's valuation is nothing. You know,

324
00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:12,719
Speaker 1: it's a religion. It's like it's a belief system. Now

325
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:14,960
Speaker 1: it's not a valuation, it's a company. If you're a

326
00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,000
Speaker 1: twenty seven year old kid or a twenty five year

327
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,680
Speaker 1: old kid, and you wouldhered a lot of money, and

328
00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:22,520
Speaker 1: the rules are you can invest this money, but you've

329
00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,119
Speaker 1: got to not do anything for twenty years. Are you

330
00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,159
Speaker 1: gonna buy long bonds at one and a half? Probably not.

331
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,000
Speaker 1: Are you leave it in cash with the deteriorating dollar,

332
00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:34,600
Speaker 1: probably not. Are you gonna buy the stock market which

333
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:38,600
Speaker 1: is at the highest valuations we've ever seen? You know,

334
00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,320
Speaker 1: it's really scary, like where you're supposed to put your money.

335
00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:45,320
Speaker 1: So you're buying bitcoin, You're buying story stocks that other

336
00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:49,959
Speaker 1: people are buying because the alternatives are really crappy. When

337
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,440
Speaker 1: we were young, you could put your money in saving

338
00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:54,560
Speaker 1: his account. When I first got to Wall Street rates

339
00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:58,720
Speaker 1: for seven seven percent, and everyone believed in the US dollar. Also,

340
00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:01,560
Speaker 1: when you and I were young, we moved to New

341
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:03,960
Speaker 1: York and we worked in banks, and we had to

342
00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,320
Speaker 1: pay rent, and we were going out socially and we

343
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,320
Speaker 1: were buying clothes. We were going to supporting events. Young

344
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,199
Speaker 1: people in the last year moved home with their parents

345
00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:14,720
Speaker 1: because everybody can work from home, so they're living rent

346
00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,639
Speaker 1: free but not socializing. They're not going on trips, so

347
00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:20,800
Speaker 1: they are sitting there with much more disposable income than

348
00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,800
Speaker 1: they normally have. And so listen, this won't last. The

349
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,000
Speaker 1: vaccine is gonna get rolled out. People are gonna move

350
00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:28,920
Speaker 1: back to the city's kids want to go out. I've

351
00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:31,399
Speaker 1: got three, you know, twenty something kids, and they are

352
00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:35,359
Speaker 1: ready for the you know, the next chapter. You're acting

353
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:37,080
Speaker 1: like it's your kids who want to go out, when

354
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:41,040
Speaker 1: anyone who knows you here, Michael, it's you. This is true.

355
00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:43,760
Speaker 1: I'm ready, and I think things will normalize. But I

356
00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,159
Speaker 1: think these are good lessons for all of us to

357
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,960
Speaker 1: realize that we do need systems change. The status quo

358
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,280
Speaker 1: isn't working, and thinking it's gonna work, and it's not

359
00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,360
Speaker 1: anyone's fault per se, right, we have there's so many

360
00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:00,520
Speaker 1: factors that have gone into the spinequality gap. It's technology,

361
00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:05,000
Speaker 1: its globalization, it's political shifts. But when you put them

362
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:09,200
Speaker 1: all together, we have a world where the haves and

363
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,600
Speaker 1: inhabitants are too far apart how do we gradually get

364
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,119
Speaker 1: back to a place that's more balanced. You've had a

365
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,760
Speaker 1: lot of the Wall Street community talk about, you know,

366
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:21,960
Speaker 1: multi stake over capitalism, so talk is good, actions better.

367
00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:24,920
Speaker 1: I think some of the ideas are just stating and

368
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:29,040
Speaker 1: they're getting there, but the macros haven't moved yet. And

369
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:33,400
Speaker 1: COVID made everything worse. It just accelerated all the bad things.

370
00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:38,520
Speaker 1: The system is designed for the rich, for the institutions.

371
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,240
Speaker 1: Think about yourself, how hard was it for you to

372
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,240
Speaker 1: make your first buck? When you're rich, it's easier to

373
00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,600
Speaker 1: get richer. It was still relatively hard back then to

374
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:51,320
Speaker 1: make your first book. You know, I was called a

375
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,680
Speaker 1: grub steak. How do you get your grub steak so

376
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:57,040
Speaker 1: you can then gamble, so you can then invest, even

377
00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:01,160
Speaker 1: buy a house. The first hundred thousand dollars you ever say,

378
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:03,720
Speaker 1: the first fifty is the hardest you'll ever say unless

379
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:05,880
Speaker 1: you get really lucky, and most people don't get lucky.

380
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,840
Speaker 1: I don't think that's changed now. And then what's changed is, Wow,

381
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,159
Speaker 1: if you have a whole lot of money and you

382
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:16,880
Speaker 1: have access, you're compounding that at a stunning rate. Games

383
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:21,160
Speaker 1: stopped traded twenty billion dollars yesterday and today already it's

384
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:26,879
Speaker 1: traded twenty two billion dollars twenty two billion dollars of turnover.

385
00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,320
Speaker 1: I have a public company that you know is a

386
00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:33,200
Speaker 1: too and app billion dollar market cap that probably trades

387
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:36,240
Speaker 1: a million fifteen million dollars on a normal day. You know,

388
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:38,000
Speaker 1: some people want to take a bet, some people want

389
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:39,920
Speaker 1: to get out of a bet. Now, we'd like it

390
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:42,360
Speaker 1: to have a lot more volume, but like twenty two

391
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:45,560
Speaker 1: billion dollars, it's the number one traded asset in the

392
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:48,560
Speaker 1: world right now. Game stuff. So it's just this game.

393
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 1: All of this is legal. All of it's legal. Listen

394
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,000
Speaker 1: you you you might have the regulators look back and say, hey,

395
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:56,960
Speaker 1: we need to change something, but there's no way they're

396
00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:01,200
Speaker 1: going to go after a hundred thousand young kids. Are

397
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,600
Speaker 1: we to be that naive? Like it really just is

398
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,719
Speaker 1: a hundred thousand young kids on Reddit going yeah, bro,

399
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:10,280
Speaker 1: let's get this. That's how it started. And it's this.

400
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:12,840
Speaker 1: I mean, they're they're not all young kids. I'm sure

401
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 1: there's some adults in there as well. And then the

402
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,879
Speaker 1: hedge funds get engaged, right, smart hedge funds are sharks.

403
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 1: Who's short? What look at Bed, Bath and Beyond or

404
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:26,359
Speaker 1: a MC. These stocks have exploded dead business models that

405
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 1: people were short. There was an ethos of selling broken

406
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,560
Speaker 1: business models that aren't gonna work, and so people had

407
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,680
Speaker 1: big shorts because they had huge conviction that fundamentally they'd

408
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 1: be right over the six months one year, and they

409
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:43,080
Speaker 1: never really expected that this hive of bumblebees would come

410
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:47,119
Speaker 1: and create so much electricity and energy that it would

411
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 1: push things to the point where they had to stop

412
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,200
Speaker 1: out of their positions. Leave us something to think about

413
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 1: for people who are not crypto experts, who are not

414
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,760
Speaker 1: markets experts, who are just turning this on and say,

415
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,320
Speaker 1: what I think, how should we think about what's happening today?

416
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,040
Speaker 1: I would stay away from trading these markets if if

417
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 1: I was you know, normal everyday you know mom and dad,

418
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 1: are you know, not working in a hedge fun business.

419
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 1: With the financial market business, it's really really dangerous out there.

420
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 1: This is like one big, you know, poker game that's

421
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 1: become the biggest poker game right now. Game stops not

422
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,240
Speaker 1: worth seven billion dollars at one point, you know, the

423
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:29,119
Speaker 1: CEO is gonna say, hey, I'd like to sell some

424
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 1: stock up here. I'd like to sell as much stock

425
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 1: as humanly possible up here, and that will collapse the price,

426
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 1: and slowly but surely, all these longs will get unwound

427
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 1: and it won't last. It will be gone. Will game

428
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 1: stock will be talked about in the same way. You know,

429
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:48,880
Speaker 1: Porsche Mercedes, that giant squeeze that happened ten years ago

430
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 1: was talked about. People will forget it unless you got

431
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 1: killed in it, and then you'll remember it for a

432
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,159
Speaker 1: long long time. Uh. And it's why ted Amritrade stopped

433
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,719
Speaker 1: training in it today. Uh. They just said, hey, well

434
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 1: we're it's too risky for our customers. You know, we're

435
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:07,160
Speaker 1: at insanity levels. My last question you yourself, I love

436
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 1: the game. At any point over the last week, have

437
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 1: you wanted to trade game stop? I traded a little

438
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:17,440
Speaker 1: bit today. It does a tidy amount just for the

439
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:22,400
Speaker 1: good I know, you got me. You got me. We're

440
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,200
Speaker 1: sitting here in the professional environment, and you know this

441
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 1: is what we do for a living. It's just an

442
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: unbelievably dangerous game. Be careful, all right, Michael, thank you

443
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 1: so so much. I really really appreciate it. Awesome. Be well, Stephanie,

444
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 1: h that was a lot, you know, Normally we try

445
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 1: to keep this podcast pretty brief and leave you some

446
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,680
Speaker 1: time to think. Well, today, I'm not leaving you much time.

447
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 1: Michael had a lot to say, but there is a

448
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 1: lot to think about, and after listening to all this,

449
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,680
Speaker 1: after watching the markets, after watching the last year that

450
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:03,879
Speaker 1: we had, it's extraordinary to me. We saw all different

451
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 1: small groups and individuals pulled together this year and push

452
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 1: large scale movements and protests and now here we are.

453
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,360
Speaker 1: A whole bunch of people over the last year, especially

454
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:20,159
Speaker 1: in the last week, have found a way to drive

455
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 1: the markets. They've driven government, they've driven industry, and now

456
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:29,159
Speaker 1: they've driven finance. But when you have Elizabeth Warren and

457
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of people on Wall Street agreeing and

458
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 1: calling for more regulation, things are going to change. I

459
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 1: am sure there's going to be more scrutiny, more regulation.

460
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,920
Speaker 1: What I'm not sure of is when these musical chairs stop,

461
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: who's going to miss their chair? Because on this trade,

462
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 1: I'm just not sure who's gonna lose, and I don't

463
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 1: know who's going to get blamed. I'm Stephanie Rule and

464
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,160
Speaker 1: you're listening to Modern Rules, a podcast from NBC Think

465
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 1: MSNBC and I heart Rating. This podcast is hosted by me.

466
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 1: Stephanie Rule. Mike Biette, and Katrina Norvell are executive producers.

467
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,159
Speaker 1: Meredith Bennett Smith is Senior editor for NBC Think and

468
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 1: our editorial lead. The podcast is engineered and edited by

469
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: Josh Fisher. Additional production support provided by Charles Herman, Rachel

470
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 1: Rosenbaum and Lauren Wynn, and special thanks to Katherine Kim

471
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 1: are Global head of Digital News right here at NBC

472
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: News and MSNBC. For more thought provoking analysis, visit NBC

473
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: news dot com slash thing